Re: [openhealth] Updates on some FOSS projects
wikipedia has a list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_open_source_healthcare_software [wr] - - - - - - - - On 10/20/07, Alvin B. Marcelo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the list John... Here is an update on ours: - Community Health Information Tracking System (GPL) - http://www.chits.info - Size: Public health centers in the Philippines, generic clinics - Status: Production - Live CD: No / - On-line Demo: http://chits.miu.ph - Screencasts: http://movies.miu.ph/chits - Community Health Information Tracking System. Not a stand-alone healthcare system. Integrates other health information systems. -- - - - - - - - - [wr] - - - - - - - - imagine all the people sharing all the world - - - - - - - -
Re: [openhealth] Updates on some FOSS projects
David,
The list is self generated by others. I did not create any of it.
Nilish showed it to us today on the HIMSS Ambulatory Open Source
Working Group conference call. But he didn't create it either. The
community created it. The people working these projects have been
busy, and the Wikipedia platform enabled everyone to collaboratively
create a self-maintaining list. To edit the list, just create a
Wikipedia login.
With best regards,
[wr]
- - - - - - - -
On 11/9/07, David Chan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Wow Will this is good. I didn't know you've been busy! How do I make a
correction and add a couple of new ones?
-OSCAR's link should now point to http://oscarcanada.org (which is better
maintained than http://oscarmcmaster.org)
-MyOSCAR (http://myoscar.org) is a Personally Controlled Health Record
(based on the Indivohealth project) but tightly coupled to OSCAR
-MyDrugRef (http://mydrugref.org) is a social network of clinicians and
pharmacists to improve prescribing. The project is based on Ruby on Rails.
Best regards,
David
David H Chan, MD, CCFP, MSc, FCFP
Associate Professor
Department of Family Medicine
McMaster University
- Original Message
From: Will Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: openhealth@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 9, 2007 12:36:53 PM
Subject: Re: [openhealth] Updates on some FOSS projects
wikipedia has a list:
http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ List_of_open_ source_healthcar e_software
[wr]
- - - - - - - -
On 10/20/07, Alvin B. Marcelo alvinbmarcelo@ yahoo.com wrote:
Thanks for the list John...
Here is an update on ours:
- Community Health Information Tracking System (GPL)
- http://www.chits. info
- Size: Public health centers in the Philippines, generic clinics
- Status: Production
- Live CD: No /
- On-line Demo: http://chits. miu.ph
- Screencasts: http://movies. miu.ph/chits
- Community Health Information Tracking System. Not a stand-alone
healthcare system. Integrates other health information systems.
--
- - - - - - - -
[wr]
- - - - - - - -
imagine all the people
sharing all the world
- - - - - - - -
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Re: [openhealth] FOSS Medical Office/EHR
test message--- ignore if this gets through the yahoo groups filter, which has prevented two attempts to reply to this thread On 10/18/07, Fred Trotter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OSCAR is the dominant platform in Canada, I believe GnuMED has a strong german contingent. OpenMRS is doing a lot of work in Africa. Remember the AMIA EHR evaluations... ehr.gplmedicine.org We would love to have some help expanding/updating this. -FT On 10/18/07, balu raman [EMAIL PROTECTED]braman20012001%40yahoo.com wrote: Hi, Is there a list , somewhere, that lists all FOSS medical applications ? My memory fetches - openEMR, FreeMed, MirrorMed, ClearHealth, OSCAR, Indivo ( ?) , WorldVista, something from Canada, something from Europe, something from South Africa - you see my memory is fading :-) I am writing a report for our State (VT) where there's some fundings going on for EHR's and people involved are not aware that FOSS is a viable option. Balu Raman openEMR user in Pediatrics __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links -- Fred Trotter http://www.fredtrotter.com -- - - - - - - - - [wr] - - - - - - - - imagine all the people sharing all the world - - - - - - - - [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [os-wg] [openhealth] Mirth on Linux
Tim, What is the most prolific open source platform on the planet??? With best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - - On Apr 16, 2007, at 1:48 PM, Tim Cook wrote: On Mon, 2007-04-16 at 12:36 -0700, james denge wrote: We are considering installing Mirth (www.mirthproject.org) on RedHat Linux. Anyone do this yet? Well, not me. But this (and the general application of open source software and toolsdo you really believe in and support them?) would be a real big boost if you want to claim to be available on an open source stack. The ideals are not just a badge and honor you proclaim. They are a belief and commitment to a different and changing world. Please let me know when your application is available on the most prolific open source platform on the planet. Regards, Tim PS I am not attacking Mirth as a project nor as any individual. I do however, find it difficult to follow in my mind, that individuals of a project can contribute their time and energy to a project/family where they do not fully understand the consequences of their efforts. Maybe this a conversion of the masses that I have not encountered. It would be a great moment for me and others if someone could explain it please. While I fully believe that open source can be a great equalizer in developing countries. I do not believe it will happen overnight. Certainly we are facing an iron curtain in the US where one faction of software development exists and another, where it is growing, are in a great conflict. Regards, Tim -- Timothy Cook, MSc Health Informatics Research Services http://home.comcast.net/~tw_cook/ 01-904-322-8582 ___ os-wg mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.amia.org/mailman/listinfo/os-wg [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross chief information officer mendocino health records exchange 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.mendocinohre.org - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - -
[openhealth] Link to Riehle's Economic Motivation of Open Source Software
Dirk Riehle. The Economic Motivation of Open Source Software: Stakeholder Perspectives. IEEE Computer, vol. 40, no. 4 (April 2007). Page 25-32. http://www.riehle.org/computer-science/research/2007/computer-2007- article.html Open source software has changed the rules of the game, impacting significantly the economic behavior of stakeholders in the software ecosystem. In this new environment, developers strive to be committers, vendors feel pressure to produce open source products, and system integrators anticipate boosting profits. - - - - - - - - [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross chief information officer mendocino health records exchange 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.mendocinohre.org - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - -
Re: [openhealth] OSHCA Hotel
... and how is it pronounced? (rhymes with tote? about? taught?) - - - - - - - - On Apr 11, 2007, at 3:17 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Beware of touts. They're everywhere. Dare I ask what a tout is? Ron Yahoo! Groups Links [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross chief information officer mendocino health records exchange 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.mendocinohre.org - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - -
Re: [openhealth] Experimental OSHCA catalogue of FOSS application for health and healthcare
tim, thank you for this creation. what an excellent resource. with best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - - On Mar 10, 2007, at 12:09 AM, Tim Churches wrote: I have quickly put together an experimental OSHCA catalogue of FOSS application for health and healthcare, using The MIT SIMILE Semantic Web research lab's fabulous Exhibit and Timeline products (open source of course). See http://www.oshca.org/healthdir/ If you would like to add other free, open-source health applications or projects, or edit any of the existing data, please see the JSON data file also listed on that page. Edit the relevant section or copy a section and edit it to reflect your application, and email me just that section - just pasted intot he body of an email message will do, doesn't have to be an attachment. Eventually an online catalogue maintenance facility can be built (volunteers welcome), but for now hand editing of the JSON file (by me or volunteers) will have to do. Feel free to add new data fields if you edit the data file. Tim C Yahoo! Groups Links [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross chief information officer mendocino health records exchange 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.mendocinohre.org - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - -
Re: [openhealth] Blue Cliff, Inc. Announces Development Of VistA EMR Laboratory Interface
Joseph, Will WorldVistA be donating the lab channels developed for VOE to the Mirth public library? Mendocino Informatics is currently in the process of developing six separate lab channels for Mirth, all of which will be made available under a free license via the public library. If the VOE channels will be free to the public, and if we have any areas of overlap, then we should collaborate rather than both develop the same lab channel(s). With best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - - On Mar 7, 2007, at 9:10 AM, Joseph Dal Molin wrote: to put this into the context of the VistA Office EHR project which funded this effort the lab interface is based on the Mirth engine and is one of the key components the VOE project funded to address CCHIT certification requirements. Another development site is currently working with the same platform to integrate their practice management system and another lab service. WorldVistA's strategy is to create a library of interfaces based on this platform to significantly reduce the cost of integration with other systems. Joseph Ignacio Valdes wrote: Blue Cliff, Inc. http://www.bluecliffinc.com/ has announced the development of a non-proprietary open source laboratory interface to VistA-Office Electronic Health record system (VOE). Blue Cliff is a Hawaii-based software consultant and development company specializing in providing installation, configuration and customization support for VistA and its derivatives. http://www.linuxmednews.com/1173285268/index_html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/hOt0.A/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/W4wwlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross chief information officer mendocino health records exchange 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.mendocinohre.org - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - -
Re: [openhealth] Suppressing Sensitive Info From Free Text
John, In this use case, the record is not held by the health care site where the patient's confidential information is secure and private, but in a community repository operated by a Regional Health Information Organization (RHIO). Operating edge proxies which host access to uploaded copies of patient records, the RHIO seeks an appropriate compromise between routine access to patient health data and protection of sensitive information. Unfortunately, the originating records combine both routine and sensitive patient information in a monolithic free text format, hence the search for an appropriate NLP scrubbing step prior to export. Did I answer your question? With best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - - On Mar 4, 2007, at 1:01 PM, JohnLeo Zimmer, MD wrote: Will Ross wrote: I'm looking for a tool to suppress sensitive information (e.g., HIV status, etc.) from free text clinical notes prior to allowing the notes to be published from a protected, physician-only area into general circulation patient records for the clinic. Will, Could you give a little more information on the structure of such a clinic? I am not aware of any practices with a protected, physician-only area more sheltered than general circulation. Once I produce my part of a record it is available to other physicians, nurses, scheduling and billing folk. Confidentiality requires the whole team to protect sensitive information. How will a general circulation patient record be used? Further: There are difficulties far beyond the obvious risk of something slipping through in free text. Take the HIV example: A medication list could contain medications used only for HIV. (Likewise an allergy list referring to any such a medication.) Diagnoses that herald underlying HIV infection would have to be caught. Likewise laboratory testing, such as CD4 counts, X-ray diagnoses, pathology reports. Specialty clinics that a patient may be referred to (and references to any reports from such sources). Unless the record is very impoverished to begin with, it will probably be leaky by its very nature. Effort might be better spent at educating the entire staff on their ethical responsibilities. Technology could be useful for detecting inappropriate patterns of use. jlz Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/hOt0.A/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/W4wwlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross chief information officer mendocino health records exchange 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.mendocinohre.org - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - -
Re: [openhealth] Suppressing Sensitive Info From Free Text
Nandalal, I believe you are exactly right. In the case of this interesting problem the key issue is to identify the appropriate middleware services to safely expose legacy patient data. This is a different problem from the opportunity to create structured and coded data as new systems with rich onboard permissions and are brought on line. With best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - - On Mar 3, 2007, at 2:02 AM, Nandalal Gunaratne wrote: Thanks Ross! Due to your question i have come to know the present state of text mining and NLP. These will give you your solution I guess. http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm? id=1089824dl=acmcoll=CFID=15151515CFTOKEN=6184618 nandalal --- Will Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear 80n, This is, in fact, the use case in discussion. Assume the patient has agreed to suppress detail x from circulation beyond his/her physician's eyes in the local free text based records system. What are the best FOSS tools to publish to the general circulation records environment a correctly edited version of a text file? With best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - - On Mar 2, 2007, at 4:08 PM, 80n wrote: Will The only acceptable answer would be Maury's option 3. The patient decides. Anything else would be be inappropriate. And not just HIV status. The patient, and only the patient, should have the right to determine who has access to anything that the patient might consider sensitive. And only the patient can determine what is or is not sensitive. 80n On 3/2/07, Will Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm looking for a tool to suppress sensitive information (e.g., HIV status, etc.) from free text clinical notes prior to allowing the notes to be published from a protected, physician-only area into general circulation patient records for the clinic. What existing FOSS solutions are available? With best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross chief information officer mendocino health records exchange 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.mendocinohre.org - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - - [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/hOt0.A/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/W4wwlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross chief information officer mendocino health records exchange 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.mendocinohre.org - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - - __ __ The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/kOt0.A/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/W4wwlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross chief information officer mendocino health records exchange 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.mendocinohre.org - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - -
[openhealth] Suppressing Sensitive Info From Free Text
I'm looking for a tool to suppress sensitive information (e.g., HIV status, etc.) from free text clinical notes prior to allowing the notes to be published from a protected, physician-only area into general circulation patient records for the clinic. What existing FOSS solutions are available? With best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross chief information officer mendocino health records exchange 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.mendocinohre.org - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - -
Re: [openhealth] Suppressing Sensitive Info From Free Text
Dear 80n, This is, in fact, the use case in discussion. Assume the patient has agreed to suppress detail x from circulation beyond his/her physician's eyes in the local free text based records system. What are the best FOSS tools to publish to the general circulation records environment a correctly edited version of a text file? With best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - - On Mar 2, 2007, at 4:08 PM, 80n wrote: Will The only acceptable answer would be Maury's option 3. The patient decides. Anything else would be be inappropriate. And not just HIV status. The patient, and only the patient, should have the right to determine who has access to anything that the patient might consider sensitive. And only the patient can determine what is or is not sensitive. 80n On 3/2/07, Will Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm looking for a tool to suppress sensitive information (e.g., HIV status, etc.) from free text clinical notes prior to allowing the notes to be published from a protected, physician-only area into general circulation patient records for the clinic. What existing FOSS solutions are available? With best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross chief information officer mendocino health records exchange 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.mendocinohre.org - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - - [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/hOt0.A/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/W4wwlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross chief information officer mendocino health records exchange 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.mendocinohre.org - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - -
[openhealth] Open Source Software Fact Sheet
The following link will send you to a four page introduction to Open Source Software published by the HIMSS Open Source Work Group. http://www.himss.org/ASP/topics_FocusDynamic.asp?faid=190 Principal authors of this document, in alphabetical order, are: Neil Cowles Guy Fisher Nilish Gupte Drew Ivan Will Ross Corrections and suggested improvements are welcome and may be sent to my attention for the next edition. With best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino health records exchange 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.mendocinohre.org - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - -
Re: [openhealth] Re: Hi folks..
be used when analysing the data? There obviously is no way of telling this. This depends on how it is used and the type of analysis. One might want to analyze what changes have occurred in the record for audit purposes. Typically one is only interested in the latest version of a record. If you want an algorithm to create a new version of a record based on previous versions, this could be done, but I don't believe there is one good solution to this problem. The B-Safer web application in OpenEMed was used in a distributed environment. We had very heterogeneous feeds (available in the clients/translate directory) from a variety of data sources (no two alike). Users of the data had views that were potentially different for each site. Differing views are what need to be avoided (at least eventually, when all nodes in a network have caught up with each other). Not necessarily. The different views in our case were driven by the security requirements of not being able to see other participants data except in the aggregate. In the GCPR project the views were to be in the form that the user was familiar with. So that a DoD record would take on a VA view when viewed by someone in the VA so that they would see a uniformity of records. And vice versa for a DoD person viewing VA data. It does appear that programming languages seem to be the biggest barrier for this particular open source community. Some like Java, some like Python, some like PHP, etc. That was the value of the IDL used in COAS, because it is language independent and really quite easy to read as an interface (as opposed to trying to read WSDL). If I type python IDL into Google, I get hits for Python and IDL, the matrix language (like Matlab), but not IDL as in COAS. In other words, CORBA support is not exactly mainstream, or even a well-supported niche. Neither is openEHR (yet, maybe some day). Of course, but IDL is an ISO standard. Frequency of appearance in Google doesn't always mean much since it has a hard time deciphering the context. The OMG IDL is near the top of the list. I'm not sure what this has to do with anything, however. It is important for interoperability to have interfaces specified in a language- neutral way, so that, in fact, Python built systems can interoperate with Java, etc. Well, it depends what the aim is. If clinic A simply needs to share data with clinics B and C, and none of them currently have information systems, then installing the same software in all of them and using less general means to share data between those clinics may be the easiest path to take. Yes, that's short-sighted, but in many places it is important to walk before you can run. In any case, systems are not set in stone - all information systems have a limited life span and it is wrong to forgo an adequate but sub-optimal system now while waiting for a perfect system tomorrow. With open source, you can largely have both. If the aim is to drop software into the midst of a modern large hospital in a developed country, then what you say is correct. These are certainly the drivers that keep people from sharing data over a larger region. They obviously have merit which is why people have followed them. I agree with the statement, however, to think globally and act locally. The interoperable interface standards can actually make things easier when working locally and prepare one for the future. People underestimate the importance of sharing their data over a wide area. This may be even more important for a third-world country that wants to have remote medical assistance. I don't advocate waiting for the perfect system. But using modular techniques with well defined interfaces actually allows one to evolve into the future at a lower cost, in my opinion. Others may not share this view, of course. I believe that with a modest upfront investment one can go a long way toward interoperability. The open source community should be leading in this area, because of the increased cooperation. Unfortunately, it seems to be lagging behind. Dave Tim C Yahoo! Groups Links [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - -
[openhealth] handheld linux device
Suggestions Wanted. I am working on a proposal that will deploy handheld devices in physician waiting rooms. These devices are imagined to be in the form factor of small laptop, tablet or ultramobile computer. This device will primarily mediate patient interaction with their own demographic details and past medical history. At this point the device is imagined to be a dumb terminal rather than an intelligent workstation, but this view may evolve. Any suggestions for existing open source projects, known clinical implementations, appropriate hardware to investigate, or solutions to avoid will be appreciated. With best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - -
Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source Software - PPO Networks Cost Management
no need to go hunting for the dispered un-insureds, many of who are the uninsurables in our uniquely american health care caste system (i.e., worship of the almighty dollar, with actuarial high priests). instead, just start with one large self-insured employer. [wr] - - - - - - - - On Jan 16, 2007, at 5:16 PM, beancycler wrote: You have two very valid points. Un-insureds could really use this as a means of straight forward financial relief. Your second point is basically how would one make an entrance into the market? The software product as a whole would need to have a brand name. This brand name would now in theory bring varied savings between many patient using these open methods. This brand name could then be marketed to Third Party Administrators(TPAs aka the companies that actually pay the claims), as a 'pilot' cost management tool. TPAs taking part in this pilot would be exposed to a truly innovative piece of the software being that the discount would be applied immediately at the doctors office thus reporting immediately to the TPAs; giving a significant edge in marketing the product because TPAs would receive immediate turn around and have access to report evaluate the pilot's cost savings effectiveness. Ultimately by first exposing this software to un-insureds a certain amount of cost saving confidence could be understood before actually entering the market place. There are many different strategies that can be used to bring this product into the market. To really get TPAs interested, it would be ideal to have a way of communicating the required discount amounts with them. Let's say a TPA will have to raise premiums 5% because of rising healthcare provider costs for certain CPT codes in a certain region or a certain provider group. This could be entered into the open system to counteract that trend yet not cause everyone to suffer. If that certain provider system refuses then perhaps it would be better to go to a provider who will negotiate this cost. --- In openhealth@yahoogroups.com, mspohr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting idea. I can see how people without health insurance would use this marketplace but I don't understand how existing clients who are locked into a plan would use it. --- In openhealth@yahoogroups.com, beancycler mmiller@ wrote: Hello, I am new to this group. I have worked in the health care sector of IT now for 7 years. I know the 'in and out' of the PPO Network business. If you don't know what a PPO Network is you can find a brief description at http://healthinsurance.about.com/od/jobbasedcoverage/a/hmovsppo.htm; the PPO paragraph of course. The basic principle of the PPO business is to 'steer' patients to certain clinics whom then in turn willingly accept a decrease in health care charges. I do not want to go into detail on this page about the practices used by my present employer. I am interested in creating a version of this business model by developing and utilizing Open Source Software. Ultimately the goal of this new software would be to give the organizations individuals who pay for healthcare premiums and health care providers a more intimate relationship with health care cost management unlike today's seemingly complex cost management businesses. My opinion is that medical networks are taking the negotiating away from patient/doctor and making it impersonal, inefficient and ultimately more compatible with there business model. Envision a network of people and phyisicans capable of negotiating there own health care costs rather than medical health plans having the only say. Phyisicans could choose to be in or out of your particular plan all within a personal negotation process coordinated organized by this software. Do you think this would be beneficial? What potential issues would be encountered? Over the course of the last three years I have established a completely open source development environment. This includes a GNU coding repository containing Sun Java source code, Linux development server, MySQL database, and Apache/Tomcat web server. I find today's Open Source technologies extremely powerful and would like to employ this power in a business sector I have a passion to improve for the betterment of mankind. If you have certain knowledge or particular interest please send me an e-mail. Thank you. Yahoo! Groups Links [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - -
Re: [openhealth] SCALE talk
Nandalal, The work Stuart and I are doing on the openempi.org website is not the development of a specific MPI package. Instead, we are proposing to study any open source MPI package, and to review and document their identity disambiguation algorithms. The idea behind the website is that the accumulation of a library of algorithms which have been abstracted from the various packages will be a benefit to all the open source MPI packages. The start for the project came when a colleague asked if I knew of an open source MPI he can use in his .NET environment. That's when I realized that a library of open source algorithms would help advance all open source MPI projects. The fun part of this is that this type of library is only possible with free or open source code. With best regards, [wr] ps: There was no MPI work in the Phoenix project. The billing and scheduling development work done during the Phoenix project has all been released into the ClearHealth code under a GPL copyright. On Jan 13, 2007, at 4:38 AM, Nandalal Gunaratne wrote: Hello Will, I do not see any MPI projects in the OpenHRE except the description of four Patient-Data Matching Software. The OpenEMed project is somewhat dormant and did not have a fully developed MPI software based on it's Person identification service. I am not sure if during the aborted Phoenix project anything was done regards the development of an MPI using OpenEMed, except the Patient identification terminology service itself. Therfore your peoject maybe the first open-source one, if it is used for this purpose in the future. Please correct me if I am wrong. Nandalal --- Will Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello World, Like Fred I'm also speaking at SCALE. During the afternoon at SCALE my presentation will discuss FOSS options for MPI solutions. Here's my short list of open source MPI projects: [1] OpenEMed [2] OpenHRE If you know of any further FOSS options for MPI, please send me links to the MPI project(s). Also, Dr. Stuart Turner and I have launched a small portal to persistently track FOSS options for MPI solutions. http://www.openempi.org/ All comments and suggestions are welcome. With best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - - On Jan 11, 2007, at 7:31 AM, Fred Trotter wrote: Hello OpenHealth, I hope you are all aware of the SCALE healthcare day... http://www.socallinuxexpo.com/healthcare07/ If you can make it you should, the speakers line up is full of real players in our industry. I am scheduled to talk on Whats going on in healthcare the intent of my talk is to give a summary about what is REALLY going on in Free and Open Source Healthcare. I want to talk about what projects are moving and which projects are dead. I want to talk about what we as a larger community are doing well with and what we as a community are doing poorly with. In short I want to present my audience with useful bias as opposed to mere information. I fully intend to make some bold statements about the state of our industry. But I do not want to do that without having more information about what is really happening. So I am turning this question on the community? What IS going on in Free and Open Source Healthcare? Here are the areas that I would like commentary on. Please feel free to comment on areas that I am overlooking. First whats going on in medical imaging? ie Osiris Second what is happening in Genomics/Protenomics/Cell Modeling? i.e. http://www.bioconductor.org/ What is happening in decision support/diagnostics? OpenPsyc etc etc Clinical Trial/ Research Software ie OIO Drug Database - i.e. Uversa effort EHR clinical i.e. MirrorMed/ClearHealth -- VOE EHR hospital ie. VistA/Care2x PHR ie Indivo Interoperability/MPI Mirth/OHF etc etc. There are lots of fine project lists out there. I do not want information that I could find on Google. I want the inside scoop! Who are the loosers who are the winners. In some of these areas I already know the answers, and I simply need a gut-check. In other areas I am truly ignorant. Feel free to email me privately if you want something to be off-the-record. Regards, -- Fred Trotter http://www.fredtrotter.com - - - - - - - - [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - - __ __ Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on www.Answers.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Links [wr
Re: [openhealth] SCALE talk
Hello World, Like Fred I'm also speaking at SCALE. During the afternoon at SCALE my presentation will discuss FOSS options for MPI solutions. Here's my short list of open source MPI projects: [1] OpenEMed [2] OpenHRE If you know of any further FOSS options for MPI, please send me links to the MPI project(s). Also, Dr. Stuart Turner and I have launched a small portal to persistently track FOSS options for MPI solutions. http://www.openempi.org/ All comments and suggestions are welcome. With best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - - On Jan 11, 2007, at 7:31 AM, Fred Trotter wrote: Hello OpenHealth, I hope you are all aware of the SCALE healthcare day... http://www.socallinuxexpo.com/healthcare07/ If you can make it you should, the speakers line up is full of real players in our industry. I am scheduled to talk on Whats going on in healthcare the intent of my talk is to give a summary about what is REALLY going on in Free and Open Source Healthcare. I want to talk about what projects are moving and which projects are dead. I want to talk about what we as a larger community are doing well with and what we as a community are doing poorly with. In short I want to present my audience with useful bias as opposed to mere information. I fully intend to make some bold statements about the state of our industry. But I do not want to do that without having more information about what is really happening. So I am turning this question on the community? What IS going on in Free and Open Source Healthcare? Here are the areas that I would like commentary on. Please feel free to comment on areas that I am overlooking. First whats going on in medical imaging? ie Osiris Second what is happening in Genomics/Protenomics/Cell Modeling? i.e. http://www.bioconductor.org/ What is happening in decision support/diagnostics? OpenPsyc etc etc Clinical Trial/ Research Software ie OIO Drug Database - i.e. Uversa effort EHR clinical i.e. MirrorMed/ClearHealth -- VOE EHR hospital ie. VistA/Care2x PHR ie Indivo Interoperability/MPI Mirth/OHF etc etc. There are lots of fine project lists out there. I do not want information that I could find on Google. I want the inside scoop! Who are the loosers who are the winners. In some of these areas I already know the answers, and I simply need a gut-check. In other areas I am truly ignorant. Feel free to email me privately if you want something to be off-the-record. Regards, -- Fred Trotter http://www.fredtrotter.com - - - - - - - - [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - -
Re: [openhealth] Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation investments
On Jan 7, 2007, at 1:00 PM, Sydney Weidman wrote: On Mon, 2007-01-08 at 07:30 +1100, Tim Churches wrote: Quite often, when promoting Linux, OpenOffice, Thunderbird, Firefox and other FOSS products as viable alternatives to Microsoft products, some of my public health colleagues counter with the argument: But the Bill and Melinda gates Foundation is giving so much money to the fight against AIDS and neglected diseases. I usually mutter in reply about Microsoft's business practices, trying to extract the same software tax from poor countries that it (and many other large closed-source software companies) manages to levy very successfully from businesses and governments in rich countries. It's an interesting article, but I think your muttered arguments about business practices deserve greater emphasis. Socially and environmentally destructive investments are not at all peculiar to the BMGF. Therefore, the reply to this article will be something like well everyone does that -- so what?. That Gates made his fortune in what amounts to illegal activities -- essentially breaking the legs of his rivals -- should be the main factor in our valuation of his company's merit. Continuing the off topic thread apropos of nothing in particular, I am reminded me of the Bob Dylan lyrics: Patriotism is the last refuge To which a scoundrel clings, Steal a little and they throw you in jail, Steal a lot and they make you king. http://bobdylan.com/moderntimes/songs/sweetheart.html Our little corner of the rock and roll universe appears to abound with interesting processes by which energy (aka eternal delight) is infinitely transformed. [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - -
Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source?
On Dec 1, 2006, at 1:48 PM, Thomas Beale wrote: mspohr wrote: We do look forward to the results of your discussions with your lawyers and we hope that Ocean Informatics will make a clear statement on their web site of the status of both the standards and the software so that we can have appropriate information to use in deciding how to support the standards and the software. /Mark There is probably nothing of great interest to wait for; they are just drafting proper licenses of various kinds for us to use. It won't particularly change what is released open source tomorrow, or in the next few months. If people won't touch anything until the people who built it have given it all away for nothing, then we have paralysis. My question: does anyone here want to make any progress in this field? - thomas beale thomas, i'll respond to your question with a more relevant question: does anyone here want progress to remain entirely dependent upon a proprietary business model? we are in this disadvantaged technology situation because our collective wisdom and effort over the past few decades has been accumulated in proprietary hoards by very agile business enterprises who have no real incentive to allow fully interoperable systems, and who treat the world with a smug contempt. what we have now is paralysis and underdevelopment, for which open source and open standards are a partial cure. call it a relief valve, and perhaps (to be discovered) a partial cure. with best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - -
Re: [openhealth] Re: GPs Revolt
thomas, i appreciate your concern for what you allege is dr. grove's naivete, but i share dr. grove's concern that when it comes to intelligent health information systems, the perfect is the enemy of the good. in the age of wikis, soa, voip, wifi and rfid there is no reason we cannot leverage existing secure internet transport and composing capabilities to substantially improve the interoperability of existing clinical text and image files. when i look at where dr. grove's fire is directed -- at overpriced enterprise packages that deliberately build new proprietary silos -- i find an ally who is saying the right disruptive things to people who would never listen to me. with best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - - On Nov 26, 2006, at 11:52 PM, Thomas Beale wrote: Will Ross wrote: With regard to the underestimated complexity of Healthcare IT, the recent comments by Andrew Grove are relevant. But a key problem with this plan is the lack of a good medical records system, Grove said. His solution? Not the complicated, expensive medical record-keeping system that many companies and health-care providers are trying to develop, but something much simpler—the use of existing mass-produced technologies. http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2006/november8/med- grove-110806.html classic complete naivete: Although there's debate about how to create a record that would be accessible to a range of providers and still protect files, Grove presented a simple answer: Keep medical records on a Web-accessible word-processing file. It costs nothing because it's already in place, Grove said. The technology already exists. there's nothing more to say. - thomas beale Yahoo! Groups Links [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - - Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] Re: GPs Revolt
thomas, if there already were facile electronic heath record software with semantically rich interoperability and a user interface that my physicians want then i would be madly installing it. if it exists and i don't know about it, please tell me. until then i plan to continue rooting for projects like yours to bring semantically advanced solutions to market while i install merely facile solutions which lack rich semantic interoperability. i can't speak for other communities, but i can speak authoritatively for rural california when i say that the current medical EHR software options are clearly underwhelming to 90% of physician practices of 5 or fewer providers, which is where 60% of our primary care takes place. and which is why EHR adoption is still anemic even after 20 years of TEPR. besides, the EHR software already installed in the larger care delivery settings is not semantically interoperable anyway, or at least not without an unjustifiable dose of infrastructure and complexity (such as IHE/XDS, an old paradigm with as much baggage as HL7). meanwhile, substantial administrative simplification can be achieved in ordinary clinical care work flow simply by organizing medical communities to collaborate intelligently and to leverage off the shelf internet technology that can improve the practice of medicine even if the clinical charting is still paper based. in other words, in my neighborhood a bunch of electronic clinical documents that are easily organized, securely stored and safely shared is an improvement over the current regime of inaccessible paper and electronic silos. and when semantically interoperable solutions arrive, we can consider them, if they are practical and suit the site level business processes of primary care. with best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - - On Nov 27, 2006, at 1:17 PM, Thomas Beale wrote: Will Ross wrote: thomas, i appreciate your concern for what you allege is dr. grove's naivete, but i share dr. grove's concern that when it comes to intelligent health information systems, the perfect is the enemy of the good. in the age of wikis, soa, voip, wifi and rfid there is no reason we cannot leverage existing secure internet transport and composing capabilities to substantially improve the interoperability of existing clinical text and image files. well, that is just IHE/XDS, i.e. computing with no semantics - the interoperability is only between humans, not computable. So, yes, the information is a bit more avialable, but it is not integrated, searchable (beyond simplistic meta-data), computable (in the sense of being able to do longitudinal queries on an EHR or across EHRs), it is not versioned, mergeable...in short, it is not any kind of patient-centric EHR, just a bunch of documents. when i look at where dr. grove's fire is directed -- at overpriced enterprise packages that deliberately build new proprietary silos -- i find an ally who is saying the right disruptive things to people who would never listen to me. sure - proprietary silos are of no interest, no doubt about that. But just saying let's use all the modern technology isn't going to solve anything much. It has to be applied in a solution that actually addresses the problem. - thomas Yahoo! Groups Links [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - -
Re: [openhealth] Re: GPs Revolt
With regard to the underestimated complexity of Healthcare IT, the recent comments by Andrew Grove are relevant. But a key problem with this plan is the lack of a good medical records system, Grove said. His solution? Not the complicated, expensive medical record-keeping system that many companies and health-care providers are trying to develop, but something much simpler—the use of existing mass-produced technologies. http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2006/november8/med- grove-110806.html - - - - - - - - [wr] - - - - - - - - On Nov 25, 2006, at 6:05 AM, ivhalpc wrote: I presumed then and still presume that Mr. Gates like just about everyone else grossly estimates the difficulty of Healthcare IT. Optimism in this business is a disease that infects even those who should know better such as faculty at schools of health informatics. For example, classic software project management techniques are taught as gospel and adhered too rigorously despite a demonstrated high failure rate. I suppose you have to teach something. -- IV --- In openhealth@yahoogroups.com, Adrian Midgley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The driving force for the programme was, so far as I can tell, a pitch by Sir William Gates 3 over lunch at number 10 to the outgoing prime minister, and therefore, in the nature of these things, as The Rt Hon Mr Anthony Blair MP steps back to being a back bench MP, the plan is likely to fall apart. -- Midgley Not by any means an astute political commentator, but occasionally known to get it right. Yahoo! Groups Links [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - - Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] Re: GPs Revolt
Gregory, Sun purchased SeeBeyond last year. http://www.seebeyond.com/ It in now part of Sun's Healthcare and Life Sciences business unit. With best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - - On Nov 25, 2006, at 10:24 AM, Gregory Woodhouse wrote: On Nov 22, 2006, at 5:51 AM, Seref Arikan wrote: Hi Will, I'd be very much interested in hearing more about SeeBeyond going open source. Would you please share any news on this one? I seem to recall an interface engine being renamed SeeBeyond some years ago, but I don't think it had anything to do with Sun. is this the same thing? Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] We may with advantage at times forget what we know. --Publilius Cyrus, c. 100 B.C. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - -
Re: [openhealth] Re: GPs Revolt
Thomas, Can you elaborate on the design flaw you see in a message based National e-Health Grid? Is a message based grid inherently flawed? Or is the design flaw contained in the CFH implementation of a message based e-Health Grid? That is, can a message based grid be implemented correctly? With best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - - On Nov 23, 2006, at 9:46 AM, Thomas Beale wrote: Adrian Midgley wrote: The driving force for the programme was, so far as I can tell, a pitch by Sir William Gates 3 over lunch at number 10 to the outgoing prime minister, and therefore, in the nature of these things, as The Rt Hon Mr Anthony Blair MP steps back to being a back bench MP, the plan is likely to fall apart. just based on what we read in the Guardian, it appears to be on a knife-edge anyway. But there has been substantive spending - CFH has already spent many millions (I would think many times £100m) on message development and other work that blithely assumes the central message bank idea, without taking any account of how health record systems work, where they might be and how they should be integrated with each other. Some extremely competent people working in CFH today are living with the terrible choices of a few years ago (a message-based design conception of a national e-Health grid), and are trying to do their best in those circumstances. - thomas beale -- __ _ CTO Ocean Informatics (http://www.OceanInformatics.biz) Research Fellow, University College London (http:// www.chime.ucl.ac.uk) Chair Architectural Review Board, openEHR (http://www.openEHR.org) Yahoo! Groups Links [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - -
Re: [openhealth] Needed: (mammographic) recall with some tracking
Adrian, Is this something as simple as a contact manager that knows how to track [a] logistical details on the order itself, and [b] additional clinical details required by NHS? If so, maybe one of the small footprint forks of the SugarCRM project would suffice. With best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - - On Oct 14, 2006, at 9:13 AM, Rod Roark wrote: Surely this would best be done within the context of a PM/EMR system? OpenEMR is popular for smaller practices and is easily extensible. Rod www.sunsetsystems.com On Saturday 14 October 2006 03:55, Adrian Midgley wrote: A colleague is in the process of 'rationalising' our breast follow up (ie discharging everyone). Our biggest problem is mammographic recall which is currently oragnised by a lady with a big box file of request forms. It's messy and time consuming. and reasonably enough asks Is there a user friendly 'off the shelf' software out there that could be adapted to store basic tumour details and demographics but also prompt and print mammogram requests over the 10 years of our surveillance? Ideally it would be a program which would also act as a very basic database of patients such that we could recall all basic details (i.e. Node positives or Grade 3s) for audit and research etc. What approach does the panel favour to offering a supportable open source approach to this? Yahoo! Groups Links [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - - Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] Open source web LMS?
http://www.solutiongrove.com/products/dotLRN On Sep 25, 2006, at 3:08 PM, Edward A. Stern, RN wrote: Anyone familiar with any open source Learning Management tools for the web? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - - Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] Sustainable technology?
On Jun 2, 2006, at 3:58 PM, Tim.Churches wrote: Wayne WIlson wrote: 2a) I am 'embedded' in the US health care delivery system, managing computer servers. Our current trend is to obsolete computers every 3 to 5 years, replacing them with ever more powerful and power consuming models. I have been on the 'bleeding' edge of trying to conserve power, but in less than three years of growth, we have exhausted the capacity of our power feeds coming in ~ 30KW and our cooling capacity for that power load. Yes. I had cause to visit one of the data centres for the govt health organisation for which I work a few weeks ago, to inspect our population health servers (which occupy just one rack). I was surprised to notice several new racks of servers, each absolutely full of blade servers each with 20 or 30 CPUs in each unit i.e. hundreds of CPUs per rack, and there were several such racks. Drooling at all that computational power, I asked what they were for. The answer: They are Citrix servers for the XYZ application. For those unfamiliar with it, Citrix is a (closed source) technology which allows Windows desktop sessions running on central servers (the huge bank of blade servers) to be remotely controlled from Windows desktops via a thin client. Rather like VNC for Windows, but a bit more sophisticated. The XYZ application was a Windows GUI app which needed to be accessed from wards in hundreds of public sector hospitals, and the use of Citrix and the centralised virtual Windows desktops very appropriately avoided the hassle and expense and difficulties of installing the application in so many locations. However, knowing that the GUI application in question did not have a terribly complex interface, I could not help but reflect that had the software been implemented as a Web application, then only a handful of central servers would have been needed to service it. The (valid) arguments were that redeveloping the application in question as a Web app would have cost more than the banks of Citrix servers etc needed to deploy it as a Windows GUI application, and that the Citrix servers could be used for other Windows apps in the future. All true. But there is a lesson there for software developers who wish their code to be deployed in places where there are not the funds available to purchase large banks of Citrix servers... ...on the other hand, the budget for one Citrix deployment of the scale you are describing is probably sufficient for a an agile web application development project which is comprehensively robust and well engineered enough to compete as an alternative to the server and power and sysadmin intensive solution you are describing. And if the web app is developed in once in open source, then the entire dynamic of options available to frontier sites is altered. But you expect to hear me say this because it is what I have been doing while embedded in a rural health care setting in California Btw, check out these folks http://www.inveneo.org/ Their solutions are developed in San Francisco and prototyped in Africa. [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - - SPONSORED LINKS Software distribution Salon software Medical software Software association Software jewelry Software deployment YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "openhealth" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [openhealth] Re: OSHCA
] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - - SPONSORED LINKS Software distribution Salon software Medical software Software association Software jewelry Software deployment YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "openhealth" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [openhealth] Re: What to Call the OpenEMR/ClearHealth/FreeMed/MirrorMed Universe?
ignacio, i share rod's question. i don't see the purpose behind bisecting the market into vista and everyone else. we run clearhealth and it happens to be on linux and it happens to be with mysql, but it's really best to call clearheath a php based solution, and let local users pick their server platform for hosting. [wr] - - - - - - - - On May 15, 2006, at 7:49 AM, Rod Roark wrote: On Monday 15 May 2006 05:28 am, ivhalpc wrote: So perhaps all the OpenEMR/ClearHealth/FreeMed/MirrorMed should be called the 'EMR formerly and currently known as OpenEMR'? I don't think the others were derived from OpenEMR. I guess you could call them the LAMP EMRs, but why on earth would you want to group them together anyway? What would be an example of a sentence where this is useful? -- Rod www.sunsetsystems.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get to your groups with one click. Know instantly when new email arrives http://us.click.yahoo.com/.7bhrC/MGxNAA/yQLSAA/W4wwlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - - YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "openhealth" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [openhealth] request for advice re electronic medical record
Fred, First of all, a question (showing my ignorance) -- OSCAR is written in Java? Second, FWIW I think it is important to keep in mind that the title the throne of US EHR systems is a rather sweeping statement. I hope the competition for this throne is open to any system, whether open source or not. I expect the the marketplace will confer its own rewards on title contenders, regardless of any testbench ranking system. With best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - - On May 6, 2006, at 11:50 AM, Fred Trotter wrote: This is a good time to point out that the only thing that keeps OSCAR from being a major player in the US, is its billing engine. We have tossed around an effort to intergrate FreeB with OSCAR for some time. If that happened FreeB would provide the US billing that OSCAR lacks, and we would have a solid Java-based contender for the throne of US EHR systems. -FT Great scheduler - but billing is Canadian (Ontario and BC modules) -- Fred Trotter SynSeer, Consultant http://www.fredtrotter.com http://www.synseer.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get to your groups with one click. Know instantly when new email arrives http://us.click.yahoo.com/.7bhrC/MGxNAA/yQLSAA/W4wwlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - - SPONSORED LINKS Software distribution Salon software Medical software Software association Software jewelry Software deployment YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "openhealth" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: Openhealth Archives? (was) Re: RES: [openhealth] OSHCA - Notion of founding members
On Apr 28, 2006, at 1:34 PM, Tim.Churches wrote: The openhealth archive contains a lot of wisdom, as well as a lot of unfortunate and sometimes childish disputation (mea culpa)... dear sir, unfortunately, i believe the record will show that i am qualified to share the disputation sandbox from this side of the pond. we can't have california not represented; after all, look who we elected governor. vbg [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - - SPONSORED LINKS Software distribution Salon software Medical software Software association Software jewelry Software deployment YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "openhealth" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [openhealth] Re: oshca inaugural meeting - constitution
On Apr 25, 2006, at 4:15 PM, Tim.Churches wrote: - - - - a bunch of really well written stuff, followed by - - - - ...Note that members do NOT have to agree with every last word of the constitution, but they must agree to abide by it. That is analogous with national or state law - I don't agree with many of the laws of Australia, but I accept that as a citizen and resident of Australia I must abide by them (often grudgingly, but I still do so). I also accept that I can try to change those laws with which I don't agree through a range of activities, from lobbying political representatives through to direct participation in the political process. The proposed OSHCA constitutions says: 5.1 Membership shall be open to persons interested in furthering the objects of OSHCA and shall consist of anyone who has accepted the premise of OSHCA’s Vision, Mission Statements and Principles by indicating such acceptance via OSHCA’s Internet Registration process. Also implicit in Section 7.4 are the provisions that members must *abide* by the constitution and not bring the organisation into disrepute. Nowhere does it say that members must agree with every last provision or letter of the constitution, just that they must abide by it. Members must, however, accept the OSHCA vision, mission statement and principles. tim, i appreciate your clear restatement of the situation. and i share your perspective on tolerance for imperfect constitutions and a willingness to abide by them flaws-and-all in order to accomplish a greater common good (e.g., consider the country i live in, with its bullying foreign policies and simply dreadful leaders, but i digress). i am trying to reconcile the section of the constitution which you have so usefully pointed out with the following post by molly to the list at the start of the meeting: - - - - Begin forwarded message excerpt - - - - From: Molly Cheah [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: April 24, 2006 9:00:17 PM PDT To: Will Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Joseph Dal Molin [EMAIL PROTECTED], openhealth@yahoogroups.com Subject: [openhealth] Re: oshca inaugural meeting - constitution Reply-To: openhealth@yahoogroups.com Hi Will, What you have done is incorrect. As you disagree with the constitution, we will not be able to include your name in the list of founding members to the ROS simply because the ROS will not register OSHCA. Therefore there will be no OSHCA for you to be a member of. - - - - End forwarded message excerpt - - - - to paraphrase molly's post: if you fail to agree unanimously with all ten (or eleven depending on how you count them) resolutions in the on-line meeting document, then you are not allowed to be a founding member of oshca. this external comment of molly's is of course much more clear and direct than the more fuzzy instruction on the meeting document which obliquely refers to the same sort of rule (i.e., rule #2 Each person then adopts the resolutions by agreeing to accept the resolutions.). so what we have in the fast track oshca v2.0 process is narrow restrictions on who can be a founding member. i objected to this because i want the oshca founder's list to be inclusive rather than exclusive. i am not asking for the process to be perfect, just inclusive. - - - - more stuff from tim - - - - I think that this collective mistake can be easily remedied by inviting a second round of founding membership applications using a form which makes the conditions for membership crystal clear. I think this can be done in the next day or so, since the planned date for submission of documents to the Malaysian authorities is not until 2nd May. If not, then people can still apply for membership prior to the first post-registration meeting. There are no special privileges or rights conferred by being a founding member, so joining as part of the inaugural meeting or joining after it but before the next meeting are functionally equivalent. - - - - back to my comments - - - - this sounds useful and creative and focuses directly on the objection i have raised. good job. - - - - back to tim - - - - So, there is no compulsion to vote yes to all the resolutions. Obviously if you vote no to the resolution that OSHCA form as a formally registered society, then you are unlikely to want to become a member of such as society. - - - - back to my comments - - - - nonsense. as a member of the community i want to make what i think is a useful suggestion. that does not mean i will refuse to be a member of an imperfect society, or that anyone else will think my suggestion is at all useful. - - - - back to tim - - - - With respect to the constitution, please note that the resolution on which you are asked to vote says: Constitution A draft constitution, based on the 'Model Society Constitution' supplied by the Office of the Registrar
Re: [openhealth] Re: oshca inaugural meeting - constitution
On Apr 25, 2006, at 5:40 PM, Nandalal Gunaratne wrote: Will, You are right! The flawed process was an attempt to get the OSHCA formally retgisterd, start a web site and get going. Endless changes and debate are not going to do this. Therefore, with this somewhat awkward, even ridiculous process, we become a formally registered organization. The alternative? Endless debates as to where to register, endless changees to the constitution, exasperating changes of the formalization, dates to have meetings, ways to have the meeting. Molly gives up. No formalization. Nobody to take over the formalization and registration. OSHCA remains what it is. A tiny, very tiny email forum with about 5-7 regular mailers and several lurkers. I give up. OSHCA is all yours! Take it, keep it, own it, mail each other and keep each other happy. Nandalal nandalal, i'll take your comments as humor, because at face value they are neither enlightening, constructive or accurate. and no, oshca is yours. [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - - SPONSORED LINKS Software distribution Salon software Medical software Software association Software jewelry Software deployment YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "openhealth" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [openhealth] OSHCA - Notion of founding members
On Apr 26, 2006, at 5:48 AM, Joseph Dal Molin wrote: A point or two on the notion of founding members, for what it is worth: There is no founding member category of membership in the ROS process for incorporating OSHCA...just Associate and Ordinary membersand these categories apply after incorporation too. joseph, true, there are only two named categories of members in the constitution. there is also an informal category of membership known as a founding member. for example: - - - - Begin forwarded message - - - - From: Molly Cheah [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: April 24, 2006 11:01:38 PM PDT To: openhealth@yahoogroups.com Subject: [openhealth] OSHCA Inaugural Meeting - Welcoming note Reply-To: openhealth@yahoogroups.com - - - - some deleted stuff - - - - Dear all, It gives me great pleasure to welcome all those who are interested to become the founding members of OSHCA - - - - End forwarded message - - - - the founding member category is not a constitutional category. it is a social construct, and those who are founders deserve credit for their accomplishment, while those who come afterwards can never become a founder because it was a moment in time. [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - - YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "openhealth" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[openhealth] Re: oshca inaugural meeting - constitution
molly, with all due respect, what is the point of offering opportunities to vote for or against a position if a nay vote is disallowed or prevents the possibility of membership? please explain to me how the loyal opposition can voice their opinion without harassment, retribution, exclusion and expulsion. please review the motions. i approved the creation of the entity, the naming of the entity, and the members of the protem committee, but i opposed submission of the proposed constitution because i consider it to be unnecessarily flawed, and the process to be unnecessarily rushed. i fail to see to see the connection between my nay vote on the constitution and your assertion that i am disallowed to be a founding member. if anything, it is flawed instructions for a meeting process that is interfering with my good faith attempt to openly join oshca. with best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - - On Apr 24, 2006, at 9:00 PM, Molly Cheah wrote: Hi Will, What you have done is incorrect. As you disagree with the constitution, we will not be able to include your name in the list of founding members to the ROS simply because the ROS will not register OSHCA. Therefore there will be no OSHCA for you to be a member of. I am posting this to the openhealth list for the information of others. Molly Will Ross wrote: joseph, not sure if this is correct. [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.6/323 - Release Date: 4/24/2006 [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - - YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "openhealth" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [openhealth] moot
On Apr 25, 2006, at 1:31 AM, Daniel L. Johnson wrote: On Tue, 2006-04-25 at 05:59 -0700, Will Ross wrote: ... isn't it moot to discuss a result before completing the process? An interesting usage of a word that's evolving, as the etymology includes the idea of a meeting, and in legal jargon it means 'discussable' or 'debatable.' Many people in mid-America where I live use it to mean 'vague' or 'indeterminable' (via debate). it is a fun word, partially because so many people think (and mispronounce) it as mute. i use moot in the *norman* sense of a formal meeting held by the conquered anglo saxons to make unenforceable political or social decisions for the community because they culturally expect a meeting to discuss and decide these things collectively but since the arrival of the norman borg (which assimilated the previous civil authority of the moot) the anglo saxon moot is no longer reality based and makes decisions that the normans can ignore. as i use it, a moot discussion is possibly of academic interest, but is off the critical path to actual results. [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - - YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "openhealth" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [openhealth] Re: oshca inaugural meeting - constitution
fred, joseph, and all, please do not vote with your feet and leave this process. this is a good effort and deserves to get built without folks walking out or staying on the sidelines. we all win when we figure out how to move forward. [wr] - - - - - - - - On Apr 25, 2006, at 10:41 AM, Joseph Dal Molin wrote: Fred, Nothing is being discardedI am taking minutes. There is no disadvantage to waiting to register with OSHCA until after this clunky process for bootstraping incorporation is complete. In fact, given the clunky birthing process and concerns raised, it will be extremely important for anyone who isn't comfortable with the process, constitution or anything else for that matter to join right away and contribute to improving the constitution etc. and ensuring that a collaborative, democratic process is followed. If it isn't we can as Nandal has said vote with our feet and leave the organization. I certainly will not hesitate to resign whatever post I have, if any, and leave OSHCA behind if it doesn't walk the talk. Joseph Fred Trotter wrote: OSCHA committee, It is a little troublesome that Will's membership is being discarded along with his comments. Essentially the arguments of the committee is lets get it working and then worry about getting it right. This is fine but I, at least, will have to wait to see it working right before I can toss my hat in the ring. This is not so much a criticism, perhaps the committee has the right idea! But until there is an entity that merits trust (which means having a forum for dissenting supporters) then I will have to stay on the sidelines with (apparently) Will. -- Fred Trotter SynSeer, Consultant http://www.fredtrotter.com http://www.synseer.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - --- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group openhealth http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] subject=Unsubscribe * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. - --- . Yahoo! Groups Links [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - - YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "openhealth" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: RES: [openhealth] Re: oshca inaugural meeting - constitution
john, i'm concerned this message and the assumptions beneath it. i am attempting to join a process that needs to be loosely coupled enough to allow serial participation. stop trying to kick me out of oshca. with best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - - On Apr 25, 2006, at 12:01 PM, John wrote: Dear Will, I understand your concerns. On the other hand, Perfection is the enemy of the good and I believe we should not risk having OSHCA constitution delayed for another couple years... If you choose not to come aboard for now, please send me your suggestions as I will gladly forward them inside OSHCA. But I would rather have you doing that as an OSHCA member. Regards, John --- John Lemos Forman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tecso Informática Ltda. www.tecso.com.br http:// www.tecso.com.br/ Tel: +55 (21) 2224-4643 Fax: +55 (21) 2509-0023 --- _ De: openhealth@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Em nome de Nandalal Gunaratne Enviada em: terça-feira, 25 de abril de 2006 13:30 Para: openhealth@yahoogroups.com Assunto: Re: [openhealth] Re: oshca inaugural meeting - constitution Joseph Dal Molin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Will, Please forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing ;-) They have not done this before! Perfection is worth striving for, but it is almost never reachable, Therefore it was agreed by most of us that it was OK to get it going and then change it. If this democratic process is not there, and your suggestions for change are not accepted by the others in the future, let us both resign and join another group. The way of holding the meeting looks wiered for most of us, but it is a method that is accesible for all, does not limit us to a time ( I was in the operating theatre for 11 hours today and one surgery was 6 hours. meaning if Molly fixed a video conference at this time, i would not had the opportunity to take part), and gave us a whole new experience :-) I was asked by Molly if i wanted to be in the Protem committee, I agreed. I was made Asst. Secretary at first, then made into representative for Asia and Juliana, her daughter, became the asst. secretary, all without a word to me! But I think that was probably a good thing, both for the committee and me ;-) We would really like to have you with us and therfore, forgive but do not forget! Come back with your proposals and I am sure they would be welcome. Nandalal Will, I agree that the process we are following is a clunky. My suggestion is let's do what democratic countries do with imperfect constitutions and amend it after we have bootstrapped OSHCA into existencethe US did it so can OHSCA :-). Would you be comfortable boostrapping OSHCA for now and then working to amend the constitution? Given that OSHCA is a democracy we can deal with flaws and omissions more effectively with real voting membership in place. Joseph Will Ross wrote: molly, with all due respect, what is the point of offering opportunities to vote for or against a position if a nay vote is disallowed or prevents the possibility of membership? please explain to me how the loyal opposition can voice their opinion without harassment, retribution, exclusion and expulsion. please review the motions. i approved the creation of the entity, the naming of the entity, and the members of the protem committee, but i opposed submission of the proposed constitution because i consider it to be unnecessarily flawed, and the process to be unnecessarily rushed. i fail to see to see the connection between my nay vote on the constitution and your assertion that i am disallowed to be a founding member. if anything, it is flawed instructions for a meeting process that is interfering with my good faith attempt to openly join oshca. with best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - - On Apr 24, 2006, at 9:00 PM, Molly Cheah wrote: Hi Will, What you have done is incorrect. As you disagree with the constitution, we will not be able to include your name in the list of founding members to the ROS simply because the ROS will not register OSHCA. Therefore there will be no OSHCA for you to be a member of. I am posting this to the openhealth list for the information of others. Molly Will Ross wrote: joseph, not sure if this is correct. [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --- -- --- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked
Re: [openhealth] OSHCA Inaugural Meeting: Vote of thanks to Molly and Juliana
joseph, molly, tim, et. al., yes, kudos, etc, but i don't understand the meeting process let alone posting for the meeting or the founding membership categories. i'm sorry for being slow, but the user interface for oshca v2.0 is not intuitive. [wr] - - - - - - - - On Apr 24, 2006, at 6:07 PM, Joseph Dal Molin wrote: I second Tim's vote of thanks to Molly and Juliana. I would also request a small favour to make the job of taking minutes simplerplease keep the words OSHCA Inaugural Meeting in all postings for this meeting. Cheers, Joseph Tim Churches wrote: It is now 25 April 2006 in London, so the OSHCA Inaugural Meeting has presumably commenced. Firstly, may I proposed a vote of thanks to Molly Cheah and Juliana Tang for all their hard work over the last few months in preparation for the formal registration of OSHCA as an international association of individuals and organisations. Secondly, I have indicated my agreement with all of the resolutions set out in the Inaugural Meeting form and have sent the completed form to Molly and Joseph Dal Molin as requested. I urge others who wish to help found OSHCA as a formal organisation to do similarly. Tim C - --- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group openhealth http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] subject=Unsubscribe * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. - --- . Yahoo! Groups Links [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - - YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "openhealth" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [openhealth] OSHCA inaugural meeting - important announcement
Some last minute suggestions. ARTICLE 1 - NAME The Organisation shall be known as Open Source Health Care Alliance, hereafter referred to as OSCHA, and shall be registered in Malaysia. ARTICLE 3 - CHAPTERS Why is South America omitted? This collection of regions seems complex. The boundaries between regions is not obvious from the text. Why not use the same 6 global regions as FIFA? ARTICLE 5 - MEMBERSHIP 5.2 - The Committee when rejecting an application SHALL provide a reason. ARTICLE 8 - COMMITTEE 9.8 - In the event of the death or resignation of a member of the Committee, the Committee shall have the power to APPOINT any other member of OSHCA to fill the vacancy until the next annual general meeting, but the member shall have the right to decline to be appointed to the Committee without resigning from OSHCA. ARTICLE 11 - FINANCIAL PROVISIONS 11.2 - change any officer or servant of OSHCA to any officer of OSHCA or other volunteer ARTICLE 14 - INTERPRETATION 14.2 -- (improved wording) Except when contrary to or inconsistent with a policy previously established by a general meeting, decisions of the Committee shall be binding on all members of OSHCA unless or until countermanded by a resolution at a general meeting. ARTICLE 16 - PROHIBITIONS 16.4 - I don't understand this. Are Malaysian students who are over 21 prohibited from joining OSHCA unless they have prior written approval from the University? ARTICLE 17 - AMENDMENTS I would like to see a requirement that the exact wording of any constitutional amendment must circulated ahead of a meeting. I fear the opportunity for the general meeting to compose and pass a constitutional amendment without prior circulation to the larger membership. Respectfully submitted, [wr] - - - - - - - - On Apr 21, 2006, at 10:07 AM, Molly Cheah wrote: Hi everyone, I would like to announce the following: 1) 25th April 2006 will be the OSHCA Inaugural Meeting Day. The form for participating in the inaugural meeting will be uploaded to the files section of this list by 24th April. I will provide the procedures for participating in this inaugural meeting by tomorrow as we need to finalise the representation for Latin America Caribbean which is still outstanding. 2. The proposed OSHCA constitution (latest copy includes the OSHCA logo under Article 19), the OSHCA regions list and the OSHCA country list by HDI (Human Development Index) are now available for you to download. The regions list essentially provides information of the region your country belongs to. Article 6 of the constitution provides for membership fees which is based on the principles of equity and affordability and the HDI list gives information on which category your country belongs to in the HDI list. Please note that the protem committee had gone through 7 drafts of the constitution which was also made available on this list for 7 days for comments. However, the constitution itself is a living document. For the purpose of registering OSHCA all those who wish to be OSHCA members need to agree to the constitution, agree to the resolutions (this will be uploaded by the 24th April) and provide minimal personal information all of which will be made available in the said form. As preparatory to the process, I suggest that you look through the constitution to familiarize with the Articles to understand your commitment if you chose to be a member of OSHCA. Rgds, Molly Yahoo! Groups Links [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.462.6369 [office] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - - SPONSORED LINKS Software distribution Salon software Medical software Software association Software jewelry Software deployment YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "openhealth" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [openhealth] OSHCA inaugural meeting - important announcement
Molly, I'm sorry for failing to review the OSHCA 2.0 release document sooner in the quickly moving process that is underway. Let's just replace all of my suggestions with the single observation that the Protem Committee has assigned itself tremendous authority and is ramming things through on such a rapid timeline that those of us in the rank and file are being asked to waive all concerns so as not to derail the process. I will make no effort to slow the process down, but I will observe that software developed under the same conditions is generally suboptimal. One of the primary benefits I enjoy from open source software is not that it can be assembled hastily against an aggressive deadline, without regard to quality, but that it is developed under a process that can accommodate rapid corrections and constant improvements to achieve a high standard of quality assurance and usability. I like the early beta version of your 2.0 OSHCA project, but I am disappointed in the bugginess of RC1. My preference is for an elastic release date combined with very high QA standards. Perhaps in the long drought since the demise of OSHCA 1.0 we have become over eager to reanimate the beast. Since I have no real standing in this process I will leave my observation where it is. With best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - - On Apr 22, 2006, at 3:53 PM, Molly Cheah wrote: Hi Will, Your suggestions below pose a dilemma for me because of the time frame. As you're aware, in preparation for this inaugural meeting in 2 days' time, the preparatory process to arrive at an acceptable constitution went through 7 draft revisions, most of the work was done by the protem committee and somewhere along the way, draft4 was uploaded to this list from 7th April announced to the list on the 8th April and made available to everyone for seven (7) days for their input. Procedures were laid out in my e-mail to the list dated April 8th when I announced the upload of the draft constitution. All accetable input and changes made had been documented in the build status in build history and every draft is available. As I said repeatedly the constitution is a living document but somewhere along the line for drafting it, there has to be a cutoff point for acceptance of input. Can I suggest that these be proposed for amendments after OSHCA's registration i.e. during subsequent AGMs? Molly Will Ross wrote: Some last minute suggestions. ARTICLE 1 - NAME The Organisation shall be known as Open Source Health Care Alliance, hereafter referred to as OSCHA, and shall be registered in Malaysia. ARTICLE 3 - CHAPTERS Why is South America omitted? This collection of regions seems complex. The boundaries between regions is not obvious from the text. Why not use the same 6 global regions as FIFA? ARTICLE 5 - MEMBERSHIP 5.2 - The Committee when rejecting an application SHALL provide a reason. ARTICLE 8 - COMMITTEE 9.8 - In the event of the death or resignation of a member of the Committee, the Committee shall have the power to APPOINT any other member of OSHCA to fill the vacancy until the next annual general meeting, but the member shall have the right to decline to be appointed to the Committee without resigning from OSHCA. ARTICLE 11 - FINANCIAL PROVISIONS 11.2 - change any officer or servant of OSHCA to any officer of OSHCA or other volunteer ARTICLE 14 - INTERPRETATION 14.2 -- (improved wording) Except when contrary to or inconsistent with a policy previously established by a general meeting, decisions of the Committee shall be binding on all members of OSHCA unless or until countermanded by a resolution at a general meeting. ARTICLE 16 - PROHIBITIONS 16.4 - I don't understand this. Are Malaysian students who are over 21 prohibited from joining OSHCA unless they have prior written approval from the University? ARTICLE 17 - AMENDMENTS I would like to see a requirement that the exact wording of any constitutional amendment must circulated ahead of a meeting. I fear the opportunity for the general meeting to compose and pass a constitutional amendment without prior circulation to the larger membership. Respectfully submitted, [wr] - - - - - - - - On Apr 21, 2006, at 10:07 AM, Molly Cheah wrote: Hi everyone, I would like to announce the following: 1) 25th April 2006 will be the OSHCA Inaugural Meeting Day. The form for participating in the inaugural meeting will be uploaded to the files section of this list by 24th April. I will provide the procedures for participating in this inaugural meeting by tomorrow as we need to finalise the representation for Latin America Caribbean which is still outstanding. 2. The proposed OSHCA constitution (latest copy includes the OSHCA logo under Article 19), the OSHCA regions list and the OSHCA country list by HDI (Human Development Index) are now available for you to download
Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update
On Mar 29, 2006, at 1:55 PM, David Forslund wrote: Tim.Churches wrote: David Forslund wrote: Molly, Incorporating OSHCA in the US doesn't necessarily imply US domination. No, but US citizens need to be sensitive to the negative feelings towards the US which are present and growing in many countries around the world. Whether this antipathy towards the US is justified depends a great deal on one's standpoint - and I don't think we should debate it here - but it definitely exists and is remarkably pervasive - in some countries it is the dominant attitude, in others, it is present in a sizeable minority of the population. This certainly is too bad as the characterization of things in the US by the press outside the US is certainly not very factual or unbiased. on the other hand, i find the american media to be almost completely useless at bringing news of the world to our citizens. it''s a good thing we have the web! [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.272.7255 [voice] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee, BCS, 2006 - - - - - - - - Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: next steps. (was Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update)
On Mar 28, 2006, at 10:51 PM, Richard Schilling wrote: I'm simply saying I'll do the work and give OSCHA a physical presence here, as long as I know there will be people there to sign up. I don't want to establish a U.S. presence for OSCHA that has no interest. Building up an OSCHA presence in the U.S. that spans political and international boundaries is vital. Richard, I don't see a need for a formal national OSCHA entity in the USA. I think now is a time to allow Molly and the other initiators to focus on a successful relaunch of the international effort that is OSCHA. I intend to let them get the international effort stable, and to assist as needed. [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.272.7255 [voice] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee - - - - - - - - Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[openhealth] Names not related to Spinal Tap or anything like that...
humor alert Names Survey - - - - - - - - Please select the band name most consistent with the dignity of an alliance of professional open source health care software informaticists. [1] Molly and the Protems [2] Molly and the Second Coming [3] Molly and the Malaysians [4] Dr. Cheah's Traveling Medicine Show [5] The Protems [6] Molly and the Initiators [7] The Informatic People [8] The Antiproprietarians [9] The Fossies [10] The Flossies etc. /humor alert [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.272.7255 [voice] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee - - - - - - - - Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] CCHIT biased towards proprietary software??
On Mar 24, 2006, at 9:44 PM, Rod Roark wrote: I repeat: NOBODY will pay thousands for certification of Free Software. They will use it because they already believe in it. Rod, I have been following the CCHIT process. I do not consider CCHIT to be biased against open source. I think competing on a level playing field for a fair, tough, industry standard certification is good idea. The cost is trivial. If an open source project cannot produce a coherent release candidate and collectively finance its certification by CCHIT, then that open source project has not scaled up to be a credible package for real clinical situations where lives may hang in the balance. I also think it is a disservice to the open source definition to propose a dumbed down parallel open source certification process. I have no plans to pitch physicians on on software they can believe in. I want solid open source code that can be equally certified by CCHIT alongside NextGen, Centricity, Allscripts, et. al. I see a huge marketing advantage for open source to stand up, get certified, and start taking business away from the proprietary vendors. With best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.272.7255 [voice] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents. Sir Tim Berners-Lee - - - - - - - - Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] Demonstrations Standards.
Philippe, Actually, I am still talking about Wayne's focus on the user. As a project manager I spend much of my time in a balancing act by advocating for someone else's perspective. When I work with with IT developers and vendors, the most important missing voice is generally the perspective of the user. Workflow diagrams and use case narratives are excellent tools to bring the user back into the center of the technology planning process, and they also provide users with a convenient way to redirect well intentioned but inappropriate technology proposals. Until we have compelling informatics solutions that meet actual clinical user needs, adoption of new IT proposals will be minimal at best, which describes the current state of EHR deployment in this country (i.e., minimal). With best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - - On Mar 23, 2006, at 3:43 AM, Philippe AMELINE wrote: Any opinion on YAWL ( http://www.yawl.fit.qut.edu.au/ )? Tim C Hi guys, I very much like the way Wayne Wilson explicated the Big problem : The very first thing to do is to build a believable (to doctors and patients) scenario for needing to get information from one system to the next, preferably in real time. IF you don't lead with that from a demonstrably practical point of view and just assume a generic need justifies all (interchange is good and will save the world, etc.), then I suggest that this interoperability demo is no different than a vendor plug fest designed to show managers why they should keep buying the same stuff they have already bought. And how funny it was to see that 6 posts after, all this vanished into a workflow engines comparison (very interesting, by the way). From my point of view, Wayne is very right to ask for a scenario for needing to get information from one system to the next. And I think that such a scenario will be pretty much artificial if these systems are HIS since the genuine main reason to communicate is continuity of care, and that it is the very issue that hospitals don't address at all - and even rarely understand. This generic need that would justify a need for communication between HIS is a myth that became a religion when a sufficient number of people started to make a living by building standards for it. This is not an issue for the citizen. My 2 € ;-) Philippe Yahoo! Groups Links [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.272.7255 [voice] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] Demonstrations Standards.
Dave, Attached is a diagram which is part of a practice management software replacement project I am managing for a group of rural ambulatory clinics. This particular diagram maps the initial steps at one clinic as Reception interacts with the current software (HP) when a patient arrives for an appointment. These high level procedural diagrams completely map user interaction with the HealthPro software at this facility. The user centered workflows are grouped into procedural chunks to enable analysis and planning for migration to the replacement practice management software, which is ClearHealth from Uversa. Using these maps allows lead users in the key operations areas (Scheduling, Billing, Medical Records, etc) to step through the ClearHealth demo, creating a gap analysis to identify software features that must be added to ClearHealth. I anticipate implementation of ClearHealth at our first clinic site this summer. I started this open source project in February 2004 and have been fortunate to raise enough funds to aggressively and comprehensively add the necessary features to the base ClearHealth product. All the new code being paid with grant funds will be released under the GPL. The project portal is located here: http://www.phoenixpm.org/ With best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - - On Mar 23, 2006, at 6:44 AM, David Forslund wrote: I wholeheartedly agree with you, Will!Do you have some example workflow diagrams that you have found useful? Dave Will Ross wrote: Philippe, Actually, I am still talking about Wayne's focus on the user. As a project manager I spend much of my time in a balancing act by advocating for someone else's perspective. When I work with with IT developers and vendors, the most important missing voice is generally the perspective of the user. Workflow diagrams and use case narratives are excellent tools to bring the user back into the center of the technology planning process, and they also provide users with a convenient way to redirect well intentioned but inappropriate technology proposals. Until we have compelling informatics solutions that meet actual clinical user needs, adoption of new IT proposals will be minimal at best, which describes the current state of EHR deployment in this country (i.e., minimal). With best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - - On Mar 23, 2006, at 3:43 AM, Philippe AMELINE wrote: Any opinion on YAWL ( http://www.yawl.fit.qut.edu.au/ )? Tim C Hi guys, I very much like the way Wayne Wilson explicated the Big problem : The very first thing to do is to build a believable (to doctors and patients) scenario for needing to get information from one system to the next, preferably in real time. IF you don't lead with that from a demonstrably practical point of view and just assume a generic need justifies all (interchange is good and will save the world, etc.), then I suggest that this interoperability demo is no different than a vendor plug fest designed to show managers why they should keep buying the same stuff they have already bought. And how funny it was to see that 6 posts after, all this vanished into a workflow engines comparison (very interesting, by the way). From my point of view, Wayne is very right to ask for a scenario for needing to get information from one system to the next. And I think that such a scenario will be pretty much artificial if these systems are HIS since the genuine main reason to communicate is continuity of care, and that it is the very issue that hospitals don't address at all - and even rarely understand. This generic need that would justify a need for communication between HIS is a myth that became a religion when a sufficient number of people started to make a living by building standards for it. This is not an issue for the citizen. My 2 ;-) Philippe [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.272.7255 [voice] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.272.7255 [voice] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] Demonstrations Standards.
Joseph, I disagree on your community challenge. I think the community aspect of open source is not only over rated, it is in fact a negative, a risk factor to be considered. I think what we need is software that works better than what we have, and so by progressive iterative cycles we can constantly improve our operating environments. I use open source software to accomplish this gradual improvement not because I want to join a community, but because I want to eliminate vendor lock-in as a local risk factor in my projects. Proprietary lock-in is therefore replaced by the risk that an open source community may get bogged down in ego and power issues that dissipate productivity rather than focus on great software that precisely targets user needs. I try to keep user needs at the center of the risk calculus. And in that equation, an open source community is not a net positive, it is at best neutral. [wr] - - - - - - - - On Mar 23, 2006, at 7:05 AM, Joseph Dal Molin wrote: IMHO this may be setting the bar too highsorry for singing to the choir: what we need are a few good enough solutions (and there are a couple) that meet user needs and more importantly, critical mass communities of users and developers that collaboratively, continuously improve them. The most compelling solutions will emerge from those communities. The real challenge is building the communities, not the software. Joseph Will Ross wrote: Until we have compelling informatics solutions that meet actual clinical user needs, adoption of new IT proposals will be minimal at best, which describes the current state of EHR deployment in this country (i.e., minimal). Yahoo! Groups Links [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.272.7255 [voice] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] Demonstrations Standards.
oops. now i posted the document in the openhealth files section. [wr] - - - - - - - - On Mar 23, 2006, at 8:01 PM, David Forslund wrote: As you probably noticed, images (and attachments) are stripped off by the mailer, so the diagram isn't visible. :-( What is the communication between components of ClearHealth or with other systems? Thanks, Dave Will Ross wrote: Dave, Attached is a diagram which is part of a practice management software replacement project I am managing for a group of rural ambulatory clinics. This particular diagram maps the initial steps at one clinic as Reception interacts with the current software (HP) when a patient arrives for an appointment. These high level procedural diagrams completely map user interaction with the HealthPro software at this facility. The user centered workflows are grouped into procedural chunks to enable analysis and planning for migration to the replacement practice management software, which is ClearHealth from Uversa. Using these maps allows lead users in the key operations areas (Scheduling, Billing, Medical Records, etc) to step through the ClearHealth demo, creating a gap analysis to identify software features that must be added to ClearHealth. I anticipate implementation of ClearHealth at our first clinic site this summer. I started this open source project in February 2004 and have been fortunate to raise enough funds to aggressively and comprehensively add the necessary features to the base ClearHealth product. All the new code being paid with grant funds will be released under the GPL. The project portal is located here: http://www.phoenixpm.org/ With best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - - On Mar 23, 2006, at 6:44 AM, David Forslund wrote: I wholeheartedly agree with you, Will!Do you have some example workflow diagrams that you have found useful? Dave Will Ross wrote: Philippe, Actually, I am still talking about Wayne's focus on the user. As a project manager I spend much of my time in a balancing act by advocating for someone else's perspective. When I work with with IT developers and vendors, the most important missing voice is generally the perspective of the user. Workflow diagrams and use case narratives are excellent tools to bring the user back into the center of the technology planning process, and they also provide users with a convenient way to redirect well intentioned but inappropriate technology proposals. Until we have compelling informatics solutions that meet actual clinical user needs, adoption of new IT proposals will be minimal at best, which describes the current state of EHR deployment in this country (i.e., minimal). With best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - - On Mar 23, 2006, at 3:43 AM, Philippe AMELINE wrote: Any opinion on YAWL ( http://www.yawl.fit.qut.edu.au/ )? Tim C Hi guys, I very much like the way Wayne Wilson explicated the Big problem : The very first thing to do is to build a believable (to doctors and patients) scenario for needing to get information from one system to the next, preferably in real time. IF you don't lead with that from a demonstrably practical point of view and just assume a generic need justifies all (interchange is good and will save the world, etc.), then I suggest that this interoperability demo is no different than a vendor plug fest designed to show managers why they should keep buying the same stuff they have already bought. And how funny it was to see that 6 posts after, all this vanished into a workflow engines comparison (very interesting, by the way). From my point of view, Wayne is very right to ask for a scenario for needing to get information from one system to the next. And I think that such a scenario will be pretty much artificial if these systems are HIS since the genuine main reason to communicate is continuity of care, and that it is the very issue that hospitals don't address at all - and even rarely understand. This generic need that would justify a need for communication between HIS is a myth that became a religion when a sufficient number of people started to make a living by building standards for it. This is not an issue for the citizen. My 2 € ;-) Philippe [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.272.7255 [voice] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.272.7255 [voice] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino
Re: OSHCA Meetings (was) Re: [openhealth] Re: List future [was: Why are you here?]
Joseph, Reaching into the Wayback Machine ... - - - - snip - - - - Begin forwarded message: From: Will Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: January 15, 2006 7:48:31 AM PST To: openhealth@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [openhealth] Resurrecting OSHCA - a review Christian, Molly All, I'm neutral on the issue of incorporation. If it can help then I'm for it. But I don't want the discussion on incorporation to distract us from the possibility of convening our next OSHCA conference. I'm a strong advocate of having our next OSCHA Conference, with or without incorporation. I've started raising the question of support for a conference with some of the organizations I work with. Here's how I describe it: Can your organization host a three day conference for 150 people, providing auditorium, break out rooms, technical support (wifi + audio-visual facilities with staff), food (continental breakfast plus full lunches) and facilities support (pre-conference planning, attendee registration services, facility access and security, etc). I explain that the conference underwriting has to be substantial because international attendees will need to pay for travel and keep their on site costs to lodging and incidental daily expenses. Consider this post the discussion fork that poses the question: What month in 2006 is best for an OSCHA meeting? - - - - snip - - - - ... I notice that the invitation to discuss a meeting this year is still an open topic, and your post is the first response. So, what month in 2006 is the best for an OSCHA meeting? Do we have the capacity to plan one this year? Much as I would like to meet every year, I do not want to over reach. [wr] - - - - - - - - On Mar 18, 2006, at 8:56 AM, Joseph Dal Molin wrote: While it makes sense to shadow MedInfo it may be difficult to do anything more than a birds of a feather meeting initially without first establishing self sustainabilitythe critical success factors for successful OSHCA meetings so far have been: - a local sponsor/champion eg. Mike McCoy and Colin Smith (Los Angles and London) - champion(s) and well connected organizing committee in OSCHA The first one was always the most important because it allowed OSHCA to stage a meeting without any financial risk or commitment.something that is absolutely necessary when you don't have operating capital. This also meant that OSHCA had to be opportunistic and follow the money in deciding where meetings would take place. I think it makes sense to seek some seed money for an initial meeting with the goal of self-sustainability through a combination of attendance fees, and sponsorship. IMHO meeting every 3 years is setting the bar too lowOSHCA was able to meet every year for four years in a row and clearly was gaining momentum. With the OSHCA.org issue resolved, the integration of the discussion lists and most importantly the renewed spirit of harmony a more ambitious agenda is quite realistic. Joseph Will Ross wrote: On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 01:48:46 -0800 Horst Herb wrote: On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 03:34, Joseph Dal Molin wrote: Adrian, thanks for the smile and words of wisdom.hopefully it won't be long before we have an opportunity to meet again. One of the first things on the OSHCA agenda IMHO should be a conference. Every one we had was unique and inspiring event and essential to community building I would volunteer to organize it in Australia - sure, it's a long way from anywhere else, but it can be damn nice, it's safe, and it can be very cheap too once the flight has been paid. Horst I propose we meet Brisbane in August 2007 http://www.medinfo2007.org/ Meeting in 2006 would also be nice, but may be more difficult to pull off. I have the sense that the scale of our collaboration would be stretched by attempting to meet too often. If we shadow MedInfo's pattern, once every three years, could be a good fit for now, and we can follow MedInfo as it hops about the globe. [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross project manager mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.272.7255 [voice] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - SPONSORED LINKS Software distribution http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=msk=Software +distributionw1=Software+distributionw2=Salon+softwarew3=Medical +softwarew4=Software+associationw5=Software+jewelryw6=Software +deploymentc=6s=142.sig=XcuzZXUhhqAa4nls1QYuCg Salon software http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=msk=Salon+softwarew1=Software +distributionw2=Salon+softwarew3=Medical+softwarew4=Software +associationw5=Software+jewelryw6=Software +deploymentc=6s=142.sig=CW98GQRF3_rWnTxU62jsdA Medical software http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=msk=Medical+softwarew1=Software +distributionw2=Salon+softwarew3=Medical+softwarew4=Software
Re: [openhealth] Post from Brian Bray of MInoru Development regarding the openhealth list name
To Bhaskar, Adrian, Tim others with access to the failed Minoru openhealth list, please forward this to Mr. Bray, Thanks! - - - - - - - - On Mar 12, 2006, at 9:01 PM, Brian Bray wrote: It is up to you. Why are you here? -Brian Brian, I am not on your list because it is broken, it is not open and therefore it is not relevant to open source software.You are free to fix your broken list and see if that can begin to mend the damage done to the Openhealth(TM) brand by four years of public neglect. You can also launch a whole new effort to damage the Openhealth(TM) brand by asserting hostile rather than collaborative intentions. The ball is certainly in your court. Wishing you luck, With best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.272.7255 [voice] 707.462.5015 [fax] www.minformatics.com - - - - - - - - Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] Digest Number 130
see below On Jan 20, 2006, at 12:23 PM, Wayne Wilson wrote: openhealth@yahoogroups.com wrote: I'd like to see something like OSCHA help bring all of the disparate projects and software together into a single, unified voice for open standards. That would have a much better effect in making inroads than lawmakers trying to force a standard on the public ... Having worked in the Health Care standards area for a number of years I suggest OSHCA stay out of that fray. The reality is that there are more standards than you can shake a stick at, and all of them can claim to be 'open' in the sense that they are not tied to a vendor or an implementation. The standards arena is a political/economic football where the players are backed by massive corporations and governments. We talked about this issue on the old mailing list some time ago. It was generally agreed that the best approach would be for some number of projects to agree to interchange with one another and then grow from there. Practical implementations always win out over non-implemented standards. (Yes, even governments and regulators change their minds once it's obvious - hence the push for Vista). Use standards of course. I suggest that one use standards that will allow transformations into XML. If anyone has worked in the HL7 world with multiple vendors you will know the concept of an interface engine. There are specific HL7 interface engines available today, but they can all be replaced the the generic XLM interface/tranformation engines that are coming onto the scene now. I don't know of any open source ones, but that is not really important. Our open source health records exchange project (see http:// mendocinohre.org/ for the reference implementation front door, or http://openhre.org/ for the currently visible codebase work) has experimented with a couple different open source XML transformation engines. To date we're happy with the open source DataServer from UCLA Medical Imaging Informatics (see http://www.mii.ucla.edu/ dataserver/), which runs on an Apache Cocoon environment. If two care providers, both using different open source software, have a real need to interchange, either the software developers will already have done it or the cost of an interface engine (which can be reused for N number of interfaces) will be justified. Yahoo! Groups Links [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.272.7255 [voice] 707.462.5015 [fax] - - - - - - - - Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] Resurrecting OSHCA - a review
Christian, Molly All, I'm neutral on the issue of incorporation. If it can help then I'm for it. But I don't want the discussion on incorporation to distract us from the possibility of convening our next OSHCA conference. I'm a strong advocate of having our next OSCHA Conference, with or without incorporation. I've started raising the question of support for a conference with some of the organizations I work with. Here's how I describe it: Can your organization host a three day conference for 150 people, providing auditorium, break out rooms, technical support (wifi + audio-visual facilities with staff), food (continental breakfast plus full lunches) and facilities support (pre-conference planning, attendee registration services, facility access and security, etc). I explain that the conference underwriting has to be substantial because international attendees will need to pay for travel and keep their on site costs to lodging and incidental daily expenses. Consider this post the discussion fork that poses the question: What month in 2006 is best for an OSCHA meeting? I think it goes without saying that many of us will be in Brisbane in August 2007 http://www.medinfo2007.org/ But maybe we can also meet in 2006. As it is still January, now is a good time to focus on this question. With best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - On Jan 14, 2006, at 2:31 PM, Christian Heller wrote: Hi Molly, some weeks ago, about 22 of us mailing list members expressed their support for incorporating OSHCA. I take the liberty to list those: - Molly Cheah - Brian Bray - Adrian Midgley - Fred Trotter - Tim Cook - Christian Heller - Joseph Dal Molin - David Chan - Nandalal Gunaratne - K.S. Bhaskar - Thaddeus N. Albers - Mike McCoy (indirectly through Joseph Dal Molin) - Jubal John (interest in background of the key people involved) - 7 further people who voted on the second mailing list-question - Alric O'Connor - Thomas Beale (here I stopped counting) -- about 22 This is not that many of far more than a hundred list readers. However, it is not few either. It is a start. ... champion, promote, co-ordinate, collaborate etc open source applications in health care. ... The Open Source Health Care Alliance is a collaborative forum to ... OSHCA is a community of people in the health care and informatics Nevertheless, I was asking myself again for reasons to get OSHCA incorporated: A website might suffice to promote OSHCA; a mailing list to collaborate; coordination between projects may not necessarily be needed as every project follows its own ideas/technologies anyway. A common website could serve as portal providing lists and evaluations of our projects -- what was lately asked for in this list again. But there are already plenty of such portals (Debian-Med etc.). Some of these portals just lack the necessary continuity and updates. Most of us have their own project and invest considerable time into it. I for one do not have many resources and will to contribute much to organisational/paper work for OSHCA, since concrete results will be few. It is my guess that many other project developers have similar thoughts. So let us look for more points speaking for an incorporated OSHCA! A list of concrete reasons to incorporate OSHCA coming to my mind: - organise conferences (seems to be easier for booking places etc.) - get publicity (taken more seriously than a loose group of people) - approach governments and large corporations - ask for funding If somebody sees more points, please add to this list! It should, in my opinion, only contain points that *cannot* be achieved with mailing list/ website/ loose group of people alone. Once we have identified these points, they may become OSHCA's focus. [..] next steps to form the protem committee and get OSHCA incorporated. We also need to decide where OSHCA should be incorporated - developed or developing country and then zoom into deciding the specific country. Correct steps. It doesn't matter much to me in which country OSHCA gets incorporated, as long as it is a democratic one, and without ruling-the-world tendencies. Perhaps a developing country is even better, since it may better know what is really needed urgently. My apologies for this lengthy e-mail. Just to make up for the lapse :) I still have the list of volunteers for the protem committee. In between someone requested for a short write-up of each as well Such a write-up should also contain which open source software (OSS) project or other organisation people represent, i.e. in which area of OSS they are active. Well done, Molly! ... and a quite short extract (as I like it). Thanks, Christian Yahoo! Groups Links [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.272.7255 [voice
Re: [openhealth] Re: Open Source Clinical Messaging Software
Koray, To be more precise, the open source clinical messaging solution I am looking for is either already feature complete or can become feature complete with a small amount of development when compared to proprietary products from Axolotl, Kryptiq, Optio, SureScripts, Quovadx, eMediary, InteGreat, and similar companies. More details will appear soon on the following web page: http://mendocinohre.org/mern.html With best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - - On Jan 11, 2006, at 11:09 PM, Koray Atalag wrote: Hi Will, Could you please specify what sort of CMS you are looking for...for HL7 or non-standard propriety ones? I am also looking for OS HL7 V2.3 messaging components for use in my project to link to HIS of some group in Turkey. When I did Google search with keywords HL7 V2.3 Message Component I got some pages but could not asses the quality and reliability... Best regards, Dr. Koray Atalag --- In openhealth@yahoogroups.com, Will Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm looking for one. At any stage of development. Any suggestions will be welcome. With best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.272.7255 [voice] 707.462.5015 [fax] - - - - - - - - Yahoo! Groups Links [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.272.7255 [voice] 707.462.5015 [fax] - - - - - - - - Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[openhealth] Open Source Clinical Messaging Software
I'm looking for one. At any stage of development. Any suggestions will be welcome. With best regards, [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross mendocino informatics 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.272.7255 [voice] 707.462.5015 [fax] - - - - - - - - Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] GPLMedicine.org
On Aug 19, 2005, at 6:56 PM, Fred Trotter wrote: Sorry Fred, but in countries which permit sofwtare patents, NO license provides protection against third party patent claims. In th sense that a license cannot trump a patent claim, you are correct. In the sense that a license can discourage patent claims, then you are incorrect. The GPL simply discourages this, nothing more. But other licenses do not address the issue at all, creating very muddy waters. Again you can sort out which licenses are good or bad, or you can just all agree to work with one that everyone trusts... And since everyone doesn't trust the GPL, what would be the one license everyone trusts? [wr] - - - - - - - - will ross technology project management 216 west perkins street, suite 206 ukiah, california 95482 usa 707.272.7255 [voice] 707.462.5015 [fax] - - - - - - - - Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- font face=arial size=-1a href=http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12hjfj16j/M=362329.6886308.7839368.1510227/D=groups/S=1707281942:TM/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1124593766/A=2894321/R=0/SIG=11dvsfulr/*http://youthnoise.com/page.php?page_id=1992 Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back!/a./font ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
