Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s
On 28/09/16 17:49 -0400, Ryan Hallisey wrote: Hey Flavio, I attached two architecture diagrams highlighting the four main lifecycle pieces of OpenStack orchestration: bootstrapping, deployment, upgrading, and scaling. Config is also in there, but it was constant throughout each diagram. The diagrams are not designed to be a detailed workflow of events, but rather an easy to consume high level architecture. I'll iterate on this further when I get a chance. Thanks! -Ryan - Original Message - From: "Davanum Srinivas" <dava...@gmail.com> To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 12:27:45 PM Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s Here you go Flavio, Sergey and team collected some information from fuel-ccp efforts. Design for OpenStack Containerized Control Plane : https://review.openstack.org/#/c/378266/ Design document for clustering services on k8s : https://review.openstack.org/#/c/378244/ Add test plan/results for fuel-ccp : https://review.openstack.org/#/c/378271/ This is awesome! You all rock! I'll go through this info and try to come up with a summary of what has been done and I'll report back. Let's see what comes out of this. Thanks again for your help and contributions :) Flavio Thanks, Dims On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 4:23 AM, Flavio Percoco <fla...@redhat.com> wrote: On 27/09/16 00:41 +, Fox, Kevin M wrote: I think some of the disconnect here is a potential misunderstanding about what kolla-kubernetes is Ultimately, to me, kolla-kubernetes is a database of architecture bits to successfully deploy and manage OpenStack on k8s. Its building blocks. Pretty much what you asked for. There are a bunch of ways of building openstacks. There is no one true way. It really depends on what the operator wants the cloud to do. Is a daemonset or a petset the best way to deploy a cinder volume pod in k8s? The answer is, it depends. (We have an example where one or the other is better now) kolla-kubernetes is taking the building block approach. It takes a bit of information in from the operator or other tool, along with their main openstack configs, and generates k8s templates that are optimized for that case. Who builds the configs, who tells it when to build what templates, and in what order they are started is a separate thing. You should be able to do a 'kollakube template pod nova-api' and just see what it thinks is best. If you want a nice set of documents, it should be easy to loop across them and dump them to html. I think doing them in a machine readable way rather then a document makes much more sense, as it can be reused in multiple projects such as tripleo, fuel, and others and we all can share a common database. We're trying to build a community around this database. Asking to basically make a new project, that does just a human only readable version of the same database seems like a lot of work, with many fewer useful outcomes. I just want to point out that I'm not asking anyone to make a new project and that my intention is to collect info from other projects too, not just kolla-kubernetes. This is a pure documentation effort. I understand you don't think this is useful and I appreciate your feedback. Flavio Please help the community make a great machine and human readable reference architecture system by contributing to the kolla-kubernetes project. There are plenty of opportunity to help out. Maybe making some tools to make the data contained in the database more human friendly would suit your interests? Maybe a nice web frontend that asks a few questions and renders templates out in nice human friendly ways? Thanks, Kevin From: Flavio Percoco [fla...@redhat.com] Sent: Monday, September 26, 2016 9:42 AM To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s On 23/09/16 17:47 +, Steven Dake (stdake) wrote: Flavio, Forgive the top post and lack of responding inline – I am dealing with lookout 2016 which apparently has a bug here [0]. Your question: I can contribute to kolla-kubernetes all you want but that won't give me what I asked for in my original email and I'm pretty sure there are opinions about the "recommended" way for running OpenStack on kubernetes. Questions like: Should I run rabbit in a container? Should I put my database in there too? Now with PetSets it might be possible. Can we be smarter on how we place the services in the cluster? Or should we go with the traditional controller/compute/storage architecture. You may argue that I should just read the yaml files from kolla-kubernetes and start from there. May be true but that's why I asked if there was something written a
Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s
Here you go Flavio, Sergey and team collected some information from fuel-ccp efforts. Design for OpenStack Containerized Control Plane : https://review.openstack.org/#/c/378266/ Design document for clustering services on k8s : https://review.openstack.org/#/c/378244/ Add test plan/results for fuel-ccp : https://review.openstack.org/#/c/378271/ Thanks, Dims On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 4:23 AM, Flavio Percoco <fla...@redhat.com> wrote: > On 27/09/16 00:41 +, Fox, Kevin M wrote: >> >> I think some of the disconnect here is a potential misunderstanding about >> what kolla-kubernetes is >> >> Ultimately, to me, kolla-kubernetes is a database of architecture bits to >> successfully deploy and manage OpenStack on k8s. Its building blocks. Pretty >> much what you asked for. >> >> There are a bunch of ways of building openstacks. There is no one true >> way. It really depends on what the operator wants the cloud to do. Is a >> daemonset or a petset the best way to deploy a cinder volume pod in k8s? The >> answer is, it depends. (We have an example where one or the other is better >> now) >> >> kolla-kubernetes is taking the building block approach. It takes a bit of >> information in from the operator or other tool, along with their main >> openstack configs, and generates k8s templates that are optimized for that >> case. >> >> Who builds the configs, who tells it when to build what templates, and in >> what order they are started is a separate thing. >> >> You should be able to do a 'kollakube template pod nova-api' and just see >> what it thinks is best. >> >> If you want a nice set of documents, it should be easy to loop across them >> and dump them to html. >> >> I think doing them in a machine readable way rather then a document makes >> much more sense, as it can be reused in multiple projects such as tripleo, >> fuel, and others and we all can share a common database. We're trying to >> build a community around this database. >> >> Asking to basically make a new project, that does just a human only >> readable version of the same database seems like a lot of work, with many >> fewer useful outcomes. > > > I just want to point out that I'm not asking anyone to make a new project > and > that my intention is to collect info from other projects too, not just > kolla-kubernetes. This is a pure documentation effort. I understand you > don't > think this is useful and I appreciate your feedback. > > Flavio > > >> Please help the community make a great machine and human readable >> reference architecture system by contributing to the kolla-kubernetes >> project. There are plenty of opportunity to help out. >> >> Maybe making some tools to make the data contained in the database more >> human friendly would suit your interests? Maybe a nice web frontend that >> asks a few questions and renders templates out in nice human friendly ways? >> >> Thanks, >> Kevin >> >> From: Flavio Percoco [fla...@redhat.com] >> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2016 9:42 AM >> To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) >> Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture >> to deploy OpenStack on k8s >> >> On 23/09/16 17:47 +, Steven Dake (stdake) wrote: >>> >>> Flavio, >>> >>> Forgive the top post and lack of responding inline – I am dealing with >>> lookout 2016 which apparently has a bug here [0]. >>> >>> Your question: >>> >>> I can contribute to kolla-kubernetes all you want but that won't give me >>> what I >>> asked for in my original email and I'm pretty sure there are opinions >>> about the >>> "recommended" way for running OpenStack on kubernetes. Questions like: >>> Should I >>> run rabbit in a container? Should I put my database in there too? Now >>> with >>> PetSets it might be possible. Can we be smarter on how we place the >>> services in >>> the cluster? Or should we go with the traditional >>> controller/compute/storage >>> architecture. >>> >>> You may argue that I should just read the yaml files from >>> kolla-kubernetes and >>> start from there. May be true but that's why I asked if there was >>> something >>> written already. >>> Your question ^ >>> >>> My answer: >>> I think what you are really after is why kolla-kubernetes has made the >>> choices we have mad
Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s
On 27/09/16 00:41 +, Fox, Kevin M wrote: I think some of the disconnect here is a potential misunderstanding about what kolla-kubernetes is Ultimately, to me, kolla-kubernetes is a database of architecture bits to successfully deploy and manage OpenStack on k8s. Its building blocks. Pretty much what you asked for. There are a bunch of ways of building openstacks. There is no one true way. It really depends on what the operator wants the cloud to do. Is a daemonset or a petset the best way to deploy a cinder volume pod in k8s? The answer is, it depends. (We have an example where one or the other is better now) kolla-kubernetes is taking the building block approach. It takes a bit of information in from the operator or other tool, along with their main openstack configs, and generates k8s templates that are optimized for that case. Who builds the configs, who tells it when to build what templates, and in what order they are started is a separate thing. You should be able to do a 'kollakube template pod nova-api' and just see what it thinks is best. If you want a nice set of documents, it should be easy to loop across them and dump them to html. I think doing them in a machine readable way rather then a document makes much more sense, as it can be reused in multiple projects such as tripleo, fuel, and others and we all can share a common database. We're trying to build a community around this database. Asking to basically make a new project, that does just a human only readable version of the same database seems like a lot of work, with many fewer useful outcomes. I just want to point out that I'm not asking anyone to make a new project and that my intention is to collect info from other projects too, not just kolla-kubernetes. This is a pure documentation effort. I understand you don't think this is useful and I appreciate your feedback. Flavio Please help the community make a great machine and human readable reference architecture system by contributing to the kolla-kubernetes project. There are plenty of opportunity to help out. Maybe making some tools to make the data contained in the database more human friendly would suit your interests? Maybe a nice web frontend that asks a few questions and renders templates out in nice human friendly ways? Thanks, Kevin From: Flavio Percoco [fla...@redhat.com] Sent: Monday, September 26, 2016 9:42 AM To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s On 23/09/16 17:47 +, Steven Dake (stdake) wrote: Flavio, Forgive the top post and lack of responding inline – I am dealing with lookout 2016 which apparently has a bug here [0]. Your question: I can contribute to kolla-kubernetes all you want but that won't give me what I asked for in my original email and I'm pretty sure there are opinions about the "recommended" way for running OpenStack on kubernetes. Questions like: Should I run rabbit in a container? Should I put my database in there too? Now with PetSets it might be possible. Can we be smarter on how we place the services in the cluster? Or should we go with the traditional controller/compute/storage architecture. You may argue that I should just read the yaml files from kolla-kubernetes and start from there. May be true but that's why I asked if there was something written already. Your question ^ My answer: I think what you are really after is why kolla-kubernetes has made the choices we have made. I would not argue that reading the code would answer that question because it does not. Instead it answers how those choices were implemented. You are mistaken in thinking that contributing to kolla-kubernetes won’t give you what you really want. Participation in the Kolla community will answer for you *why* choices were made as they were. Many choices are left unanswered as of yet and Red Hat can make a big impact in the future of the decision making about *why*. You have to participate to have your voice heard. If you are expecting the Kolla team to write a bunch of documentation to explain *why* we have made the choices we have, we frankly don’t have time for that. Ryan and Michal may promise it with architecture diagrams and other forms of incomplete documentation, but that won’t provide you a holistic view of *why* and is wasted efforts on their part (no offense Michal and Ryan – I think it’s a worthy goal. The timing for such a request is terrible and I don’t want to derail the team into endless discussions about the best way to do things). The best way to do things is sorted out via the gerrit review process using the standard OpenStack workflow through an open development process. Steve, Thanks for getting back on this. Unfortunatelly, I think you keep missing my point and my goal. I'd like to document the arc
Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s
On 23/09/16 12:33 -0400, Ryan Hallisey wrote: Thanks for starting the discussion Fabio. As someone that started looking into this topic just recently, I'd love to see our communities collaborate more wherever possible. For example, it'd be great to see us working on a reference architecture for deploying OpenStack on kubernetes, letting the implementation details aside for a bit. I'd assume some folks have done this already and I bet we can all learn more from it if we work on this together. Agreed Flavio. Members of the kolla-kubernetes community have some ideas of how this will look. I can put together some diagrams over the weekend to depict this and maybe others that have some ideas can comment and share theirs. Sounds awesome! Thanks a bunch :) So, let me go ahead and ask some further questions here, I might be missing some history and/or context: - Is there any public documentation that acts as a reference architecture for deploying OpenStack on kubernetes? These specs [1][2] might be a good start. I'll go through these, thanks. - Is this something the architecture working group could help with? Or would it be better to hijack one of kolla meetings? kolla-kubernetes has a booked slot in the weekly kolla meetings. This could be discussed there. ++ So issue is, I know of few other openstacks on k8s and everyone does that slightly differently. So far we lack proof points and real world data to determine best approaches to stuff. This is still not-to-well researched field. Right now it's mostly opinions and assumptions. We're not ready to make document without having a flame war around it;) Not enough knowledge in our collective brains. Awesome input, thanks. Michal is right, there are a bunch of implementations that exist. The tricky part is pulling together all the groups to figure out the best solution. When the kolla-kubernetes project was created, my hope that this new repo would be a place where anyone curious about the OpenStack and Kubernetes interaction could come and express their opinion in code or conversation. The community still remains open to any changes with it's implementation and the current implementation is a reflection of who is participating. I agree that it would be ideal for a single place to collaborate. It would be awesome to bring together the community that is looking to solve this problem around a single project. Doesn't matter what that project is, but I'd like for more collaboration :). As for Kolla-k8s we are still deep in development, so we are free to take best course of action we know of. We don't have any technical debt now. Current state of stuff represents what we thing is best approach. I wonder if we can start writing these assumptions down and update them as we go. I don't expect you to do it, I'm happy to help with this. We could put it in kolla-k8s docs if that makes sense to other kolla-k8s folks. It's not that Kolla-k8s has tech debt, but rather the community is still testing the waters with its implementation. For instance, the community is looking at a workflow that will execute the deployment of OpenStack and hand off to Kubernetes to manage it. This solution raises some questions: why do you need a workflow at all? Why not use Kubernetes, a Container Orchestration Engine, to orchestrate the services? A lot of these fundamental questions were outlined in this spec [1] and the answers to them are still WIP [3]. Indeed! This and other fundamental questions are the ones I'd like us to answer and document, perhaps as new things happen. I'll read [3] too. Thanks for the pointer. I'll probably start pinging you guys on IRC with questions so I can help writing this down. That would be fantastic! There's also room for collaboration at summit too. Kolla-kubernetes will have a design session/fishbowl scheduled. Awesome! I'll be there for sure :) There is also part that k8s is constantly growing and it lacks certain features that created these issues in the first place, if k8s solves them on their side, that will affect decision on our side. Thanks a lot, Michal. This is indeed the kind of info I was looking for and where I'd love to start from. Agreed Michal. The community has been adapting on the fly based on features coming out of Kubernetes. Things like init containers and petsets were recent features that have found their way into kolla-kubernetes. The flow of work in kolla-kubernetes has been following the work items in the spec [1], but in a different order. The basic outline for putting OpenStack on Kubernetes will follow a similar path. Where as things like the templates will be similar, but the orchestration method can vary. I think that's where the biggest controversy lies. Thanks a lot for all your comments, Ryan. This is useful content and I'll go through it and ask questions there and/or on IRC. Flavio Thanks! -Ryan [1] - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/304182/ [2] -
Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s
I think some of the disconnect here is a potential misunderstanding about what kolla-kubernetes is Ultimately, to me, kolla-kubernetes is a database of architecture bits to successfully deploy and manage OpenStack on k8s. Its building blocks. Pretty much what you asked for. There are a bunch of ways of building openstacks. There is no one true way. It really depends on what the operator wants the cloud to do. Is a daemonset or a petset the best way to deploy a cinder volume pod in k8s? The answer is, it depends. (We have an example where one or the other is better now) kolla-kubernetes is taking the building block approach. It takes a bit of information in from the operator or other tool, along with their main openstack configs, and generates k8s templates that are optimized for that case. Who builds the configs, who tells it when to build what templates, and in what order they are started is a separate thing. You should be able to do a 'kollakube template pod nova-api' and just see what it thinks is best. If you want a nice set of documents, it should be easy to loop across them and dump them to html. I think doing them in a machine readable way rather then a document makes much more sense, as it can be reused in multiple projects such as tripleo, fuel, and others and we all can share a common database. We're trying to build a community around this database. Asking to basically make a new project, that does just a human only readable version of the same database seems like a lot of work, with many fewer useful outcomes. Please help the community make a great machine and human readable reference architecture system by contributing to the kolla-kubernetes project. There are plenty of opportunity to help out. Maybe making some tools to make the data contained in the database more human friendly would suit your interests? Maybe a nice web frontend that asks a few questions and renders templates out in nice human friendly ways? Thanks, Kevin From: Flavio Percoco [fla...@redhat.com] Sent: Monday, September 26, 2016 9:42 AM To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s On 23/09/16 17:47 +, Steven Dake (stdake) wrote: >Flavio, > >Forgive the top post and lack of responding inline – I am dealing with lookout >2016 which apparently has a bug here [0]. > >Your question: > >I can contribute to kolla-kubernetes all you want but that won't give me what I >asked for in my original email and I'm pretty sure there are opinions about the >"recommended" way for running OpenStack on kubernetes. Questions like: Should I >run rabbit in a container? Should I put my database in there too? Now with >PetSets it might be possible. Can we be smarter on how we place the services in >the cluster? Or should we go with the traditional controller/compute/storage >architecture. > >You may argue that I should just read the yaml files from kolla-kubernetes and >start from there. May be true but that's why I asked if there was something >written already. >Your question ^ > >My answer: >I think what you are really after is why kolla-kubernetes has made the choices >we have made. I would not argue that reading the code would answer that >question because it does not. Instead it answers how those choices were >implemented. > >You are mistaken in thinking that contributing to kolla-kubernetes won’t give >you what you really want. Participation in the Kolla community will answer >for you *why* choices were made as they were. Many choices are left >unanswered as of yet and Red Hat can make a big impact in the future of the >decision making about *why*. You have to participate to have your voice >heard. If you are expecting the Kolla team to write a bunch of documentation >to explain *why* we have made the choices we have, we frankly don’t have time >for that. Ryan and Michal may promise it with architecture diagrams and other >forms of incomplete documentation, but that won’t provide you a holistic view >of *why* and is wasted efforts on their part (no offense Michal and Ryan – I >think it’s a worthy goal. The timing for such a request is terrible and I >don’t want to derail the team into endless discussions about the best way to >do things). > >The best way to do things is sorted out via the gerrit review process using >the standard OpenStack workflow through an open development process. Steve, Thanks for getting back on this. Unfortunatelly, I think you keep missing my point and my goal. I'd like to document the architectural choices and see if there's a common ground in which different teams can collaborate on. In addition to this, we'll also see at what point these teams will start
Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s
On 23/09/16 17:47 +, Steven Dake (stdake) wrote: Flavio, Forgive the top post and lack of responding inline – I am dealing with lookout 2016 which apparently has a bug here [0]. Your question: I can contribute to kolla-kubernetes all you want but that won't give me what I asked for in my original email and I'm pretty sure there are opinions about the "recommended" way for running OpenStack on kubernetes. Questions like: Should I run rabbit in a container? Should I put my database in there too? Now with PetSets it might be possible. Can we be smarter on how we place the services in the cluster? Or should we go with the traditional controller/compute/storage architecture. You may argue that I should just read the yaml files from kolla-kubernetes and start from there. May be true but that's why I asked if there was something written already. Your question ^ My answer: I think what you are really after is why kolla-kubernetes has made the choices we have made. I would not argue that reading the code would answer that question because it does not. Instead it answers how those choices were implemented. You are mistaken in thinking that contributing to kolla-kubernetes won’t give you what you really want. Participation in the Kolla community will answer for you *why* choices were made as they were. Many choices are left unanswered as of yet and Red Hat can make a big impact in the future of the decision making about *why*. You have to participate to have your voice heard. If you are expecting the Kolla team to write a bunch of documentation to explain *why* we have made the choices we have, we frankly don’t have time for that. Ryan and Michal may promise it with architecture diagrams and other forms of incomplete documentation, but that won’t provide you a holistic view of *why* and is wasted efforts on their part (no offense Michal and Ryan – I think it’s a worthy goal. The timing for such a request is terrible and I don’t want to derail the team into endless discussions about the best way to do things). The best way to do things is sorted out via the gerrit review process using the standard OpenStack workflow through an open development process. Steve, Thanks for getting back on this. Unfortunatelly, I think you keep missing my point and my goal. I'd like to document the architectural choices and see if there's a common ground in which different teams can collaborate on. In addition to this, we'll also see at what point these teams will start diverging in architectural choices. Will the time invested on this be entirely wasted? Maybe. I'm failing to see what is wrong about my request. You mention that I need to contribute to have my voice heard in Kolla as if I'm trying to change anything in it. Spoiler alert: I'm not. I'd like to first work on what I've mentioned in my email and then take the next step. It's also important to note that I've not asked the Kolla team to do this themselves. I've said that I'd like to hear thoughts and friendly discussions on this from different teams (not just kolla), which could easily happen over email. For example, we could stop arguing whether my email makes sense or not and perhaps start dropping some ideas here. Anyway, I appreciate your input and you taking the time to explain the status and efforts of the Kolla team. As far as my contributions go, this is a way for me to start contributing on the deployment on containers efforts around the community and more specifically on the kubernetes side. It might not be what everyone wants but I believe it does help and it'll create a common place for collaboration on this topic amongts different communities (including OPs). Flavio Flavio, Consider this an invitation to come join us – we want Red Hat’s participation. Regards -steve [0] http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msoffice/forum/msoffice_outlook-mso_mac/outlook-for-mac-2016-replying-inline-with-html-no/298b830e-11ea-416c-b951-918d8f9562cb From: Flavio Percoco <fla...@redhat.com> Reply-To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org> Date: Friday, September 23, 2016 at 3:10 AM To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org> Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s On 22/09/16 20:55 +, Steven Dake (stdake) wrote: Flavio, Apologies for delay in response – my backlog is large. Forgive me if I parsed your message incorrectly. It's probably me failing to communicate my intent or just the intent not being good enough or worth it at all. It came across to me as “How do I blaze a trail for OpenStack on Kubernetes?”. That was asked of me personally 3 years ago which led to the formation of the Kolla project inside Red Hat. Our initial effort at that activity failed. Instead we decided kubern
Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s
Jay apologies. That was an overgeneralization. The fuel team was not part of the kolla-mesos team to my knowledge. To my knowledge the kolla-mesos team has moved on to kubernetes upstream work and isn’t all that involved in fuel work. Cheers -steve From: Jay Pipes <jaypi...@gmail.com> Reply-To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org> Date: Friday, September 23, 2016 at 11:43 AM To: "openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org" <openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org> Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s On 09/23/2016 01:04 PM, Steven Dake (stdake) wrote: I also fail to see how training the Fuel team with the choices Kolla has made in implementation puts OpenStack first. Sorry, could you elaborate on what exactly you mean above? What do you mean by "training the Fuel team with the choices Kolla has made"? Best, -jay __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org<mailto:openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org>?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s
There's a bit of why documentation here (though somewhat dated now): https://review.openstack.org/#/c/361186/ And here: https://github.com/openstack/kolla-kubernetes/blob/master/specs/ansible-deployment.rst But there is still a bunch of stuff that we're still figuring out via the review process. We've got an opinion on how to do 0 downtime minor rolling upgrades of api services fully automated by kubernetes, for example. Is our solution the best way? who knows. But its the best way we can think of currently. The only way to really gain this knowledge right now is to review stuff as we all come to a common understanding about the "best way". I'm guessing in a number of months, when we have the majority of openstack services working smoothly we will have enough knowledge to really document it well. We only currently have the compute kit stuff working well. For now, we can only revise our best practices as we find new issues when we add new services. Please do join us and lets work together to find the best solution for openstack on kubernetes. We all want that. One other thing. We've been trying to keep workfow/config generation separate from the parts that generate the templates and hand them over to kubernetes. This means, that you can use something other then ansible to generate the config and step through/orchestrate the deployment. not all of the templates are 100% doing this yet, but we're actively working on it. So, if you wanted to do config management and worflow in say, mistral and/or heat it should work. I think it would fit very well with TripleO's current architecture. We designed kolla-kubernetes here to be flexible to these sorts of needs. I'd also be happy to talk more about this if you'd like. Thanks, Kevin From: Steven Dake (stdake) [std...@cisco.com] Sent: Friday, September 23, 2016 10:47 AM To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s Flavio, Forgive the top post and lack of responding inline – I am dealing with lookout 2016 which apparently has a bug here [0]. Your question: I can contribute to kolla-kubernetes all you want but that won't give me what I asked for in my original email and I'm pretty sure there are opinions about the "recommended" way for running OpenStack on kubernetes. Questions like: Should I run rabbit in a container? Should I put my database in there too? Now with PetSets it might be possible. Can we be smarter on how we place the services in the cluster? Or should we go with the traditional controller/compute/storage architecture. You may argue that I should just read the yaml files from kolla-kubernetes and start from there. May be true but that's why I asked if there was something written already. Your question ^ My answer: I think what you are really after is why kolla-kubernetes has made the choices we have made. I would not argue that reading the code would answer that question because it does not. Instead it answers how those choices were implemented. You are mistaken in thinking that contributing to kolla-kubernetes won’t give you what you really want. Participation in the Kolla community will answer for you *why* choices were made as they were. Many choices are left unanswered as of yet and Red Hat can make a big impact in the future of the decision making about *why*. You have to participate to have your voice heard. If you are expecting the Kolla team to write a bunch of documentation to explain *why* we have made the choices we have, we frankly don’t have time for that. Ryan and Michal may promise it with architecture diagrams and other forms of incomplete documentation, but that won’t provide you a holistic view of *why* and is wasted efforts on their part (no offense Michal and Ryan – I think it’s a worthy goal. The timing for such a request is terrible and I don’t want to derail the team into endless discussions about the best way to do things). The best way to do things is sorted out via the gerrit review process using the standard OpenStack workflow through an open development process. Flavio, Consider this an invitation to come join us – we want Red Hat’s participation. Regards -steve [0] http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msoffice/forum/msoffice_outlook-mso_mac/outlook-for-mac-2016-replying-inline-with-html-no/298b830e-11ea-416c-b951-918d8f9562cb From: Flavio Percoco <fla...@redhat.com> Reply-To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org> Date: Friday, September 23, 2016 at 3:10 AM To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org> Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s On 22/09/16 20:55 +
Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s
On 09/23/2016 01:04 PM, Steven Dake (stdake) wrote: I also fail to see how training the Fuel team with the choices Kolla has made in implementation puts OpenStack first. Sorry, could you elaborate on what exactly you mean above? What do you mean by "training the Fuel team with the choices Kolla has made"? Best, -jay __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s
Flavio, Forgive the top post and lack of responding inline – I am dealing with lookout 2016 which apparently has a bug here [0]. Your question: I can contribute to kolla-kubernetes all you want but that won't give me what I asked for in my original email and I'm pretty sure there are opinions about the "recommended" way for running OpenStack on kubernetes. Questions like: Should I run rabbit in a container? Should I put my database in there too? Now with PetSets it might be possible. Can we be smarter on how we place the services in the cluster? Or should we go with the traditional controller/compute/storage architecture. You may argue that I should just read the yaml files from kolla-kubernetes and start from there. May be true but that's why I asked if there was something written already. Your question ^ My answer: I think what you are really after is why kolla-kubernetes has made the choices we have made. I would not argue that reading the code would answer that question because it does not. Instead it answers how those choices were implemented. You are mistaken in thinking that contributing to kolla-kubernetes won’t give you what you really want. Participation in the Kolla community will answer for you *why* choices were made as they were. Many choices are left unanswered as of yet and Red Hat can make a big impact in the future of the decision making about *why*. You have to participate to have your voice heard. If you are expecting the Kolla team to write a bunch of documentation to explain *why* we have made the choices we have, we frankly don’t have time for that. Ryan and Michal may promise it with architecture diagrams and other forms of incomplete documentation, but that won’t provide you a holistic view of *why* and is wasted efforts on their part (no offense Michal and Ryan – I think it’s a worthy goal. The timing for such a request is terrible and I don’t want to derail the team into endless discussions about the best way to do things). The best way to do things is sorted out via the gerrit review process using the standard OpenStack workflow through an open development process. Flavio, Consider this an invitation to come join us – we want Red Hat’s participation. Regards -steve [0] http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msoffice/forum/msoffice_outlook-mso_mac/outlook-for-mac-2016-replying-inline-with-html-no/298b830e-11ea-416c-b951-918d8f9562cb From: Flavio Percoco <fla...@redhat.com> Reply-To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org> Date: Friday, September 23, 2016 at 3:10 AM To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org> Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s On 22/09/16 20:55 +, Steven Dake (stdake) wrote: Flavio, Apologies for delay in response – my backlog is large. Forgive me if I parsed your message incorrectly. It's probably me failing to communicate my intent or just the intent not being good enough or worth it at all. It came across to me as “How do I blaze a trail for OpenStack on Kubernetes?”. That was asked of me personally 3 years ago which led to the formation of the Kolla project inside Red Hat. Our initial effort at that activity failed. Instead we decided kubernetes wasn’t ready for trailblazing in this space and used a far more mature project (Ansible) to solve the “OpenStack in Containers” problems and build from there. We have since expanded our scope to re-solve the “How do I blaze a trail for Openstack on Kubernetes?” question since Kubernetes is now ready for this sort of trailblazing. Fuel and several other folks decided to create derived works of the Kolla community’s innovations in this area. I would contend that Fuel didn’t need to behave in such a way because the Kolla community is open, friendly, mature, diversely affiliated, has a reasonable philosophy and good set of principles as well as a strong leadership pipeline. Rather than go blaze a trail when one already exists or create a derived work, why not increase your footprint in Kolla instead? Red Hat has invested in Kolla for some time now, and their footprint hasn’t magically disappeared over night. We will give you what you want within reasonable boundaries (the boundaries all open-source projects set of their contributors). We also accept more work than the typical OpenStack project might, so it’s not like you will have to bring donuts into the office for every patch you merge into Kolla. As to your more direct question of reference architecture, that is a totally loaded term that I’ll leave untouched. To answer your question of “Does Kolla have a set of best practices” the answer is yes in kolla-ansible and kolla itself and strongly forming set of best practices in kolla-kubernetes. As I
Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s
Bogdan, I recognize English isn’t your first language, so forgive me if I have mis-parsed your message. I think the question you are asking is “Can we have cooperation to standardize on how best to do OpenStack on Kubernetes”. We tried an analog of that with Mirantis around Mesos, and that resulted in many derived works, one of which was fuel-ccp. Fuel has made it abundantly clear they intend to compete with Kolla, which is fine. I recognize we are one community and need to put OpenStack first here, and project teams second, but I also fail to see how training the Fuel team with the choices Kolla has made in implementation puts OpenStack first. Standard organizational best practice with competitive teams in any organization is either to stamp out the competition or let them compete independently to grow the pie for everyone. The activity you propose would not put OpenStack first because of this organizational best practice. Our code base is completely open. Our irc channels are completely open. Our mailing list participation is completely open. Our architecture discussions are completely open. Our project is OPEN. If you really want to participate in Kolla the door remains open. I find it hard to see a way for that to happen given the history and Mirantis’s stated intent, but anything is possible if the right people change their minds. Regards -steve On 9/23/16, 8:37 AM, "Bogdan Dobrelya"wrote: Yeah, would be very nice to have/reuse a place for highest level and projects independent specs to outline key architecture decisions like (WARN [tl;dr]: biased examples from a non existent prototype go below): * Shared nothing for stateful DB/MQ components (this means no shared storage for state keeping, but replicas instead) * And maybe place stateful and SDN/NFV/HW bound components *out* of COE scope (they are well known to like only stateless/serverless/schemaless/overlay only unicorns. A joke!..) * CM tools-agnostic containers build pipelines * Building images from sources but ship only artifacts w/o build deps * No entry points magic in build pipeline for containers images to be spawned by COE platforms as apps. * Rework components to support 12 factor apps requirements, e.g. redirect to stdout/stderr only, do not use implicit communication channels etc. * Runtime only data driven approach (no j2 templates for build pipeline please!) and more things... On 22.09.2016 16:49, Flavio Percoco wrote: > On 22/09/16 10:09 -0400, Davanum Srinivas wrote: >> Flavio >> >> Please see below: >> >> On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 7:04 AM, Flavio Percoco >> wrote: >>> Greetings, >>> >>> I've recently started looking into the container technologies around >>> OpenStack. >>> More specifically, I've been looking into the tools that allow for >>> deploying >>> OpenStack on containers, which is what I'm the most interested in >>> right now >>> as >>> part of the TripleO efforts. >>> >>> I'm familiar with the Kolla project and the tools managed by this >>> team. In >>> fact, >>> TripleO currently uses kolla images for the containerized nova-compute >>> deployment. >>> >>> I am, however, looking beyond a docker based deployment. I'd like to >>> explore >>> in >>> more depth a Kubernetes based deployment of OpenStack. I'm familiar with >>> both >>> kolla-kubernetes and fuel-ccp, their structure and direction*. Both >>> projects >>> have now advanced a bit in their implementations and made some >>> decisions. >>> >>> As someone that started looking into this topic just recently, I'd >>> love to >>> see >>> our communities collaborate more wherever possible. For example, it'd be >>> great >>> to see us working on a reference architecture for deploying OpenStack on >>> kubernetes, letting the implementation details aside for a bit. I'd >>> assume >>> some >>> folks have done this already and I bet we can all learn more from it >>> if we >>> work >>> on this together. >>> >>> So, let me go ahead and ask some further questions here, I might be >>> missing >>> some >>> history and/or context: >>> >>> - Is there any public documentation that acts as a reference >>> architecture >>> for >>> deploying OpenStack on kubernetes? >>> - Is this something the architecture working group could help with? >>> Or would >>> it >>> be better to hijack one of kolla meetings? >>> >>> The restult I'd love to see from this collaboration is a reference >>> architecture >>> explaining how OpenStack should be run on Kubernetes. >> >> At this moment, fuel-ccp-* is an experiment, it's not under >> governance, there is no expectation of any
Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s
Thanks for starting the discussion Fabio. > As someone that started looking into this topic just recently, I'd love to see > our communities collaborate more wherever possible. For example, it'd be great > to see us working on a reference architecture for deploying OpenStack on > kubernetes, letting the implementation details aside for a bit. I'd assume > some > folks have done this already and I bet we can all learn more from it if we > work > on this together. Agreed Flavio. Members of the kolla-kubernetes community have some ideas of how this will look. I can put together some diagrams over the weekend to depict this and maybe others that have some ideas can comment and share theirs. > So, let me go ahead and ask some further questions here, I might be missing > some > history and/or context: > - Is there any public documentation that acts as a reference architecture for > deploying OpenStack on kubernetes? These specs [1][2] might be a good start. > - Is this something the architecture working group could help with? Or would > it > be better to hijack one of kolla meetings? kolla-kubernetes has a booked slot in the weekly kolla meetings. This could be discussed there. >> So issue is, I know of few other openstacks on k8s and everyone does >> that slightly differently. So far we lack proof points and real world >> data to determine best approaches to stuff. This is still not-to-well >> researched field. Right now it's mostly opinions and assumptions. >> We're not ready to make document without having a flame war around >> it;) Not enough knowledge in our collective brains. > Awesome input, thanks. Michal is right, there are a bunch of implementations that exist. The tricky part is pulling together all the groups to figure out the best solution. When the kolla-kubernetes project was created, my hope that this new repo would be a place where anyone curious about the OpenStack and Kubernetes interaction could come and express their opinion in code or conversation. The community still remains open to any changes with it's implementation and the current implementation is a reflection of who is participating. I agree that it would be ideal for a single place to collaborate. It would be awesome to bring together the community that is looking to solve this problem around a single project. Doesn't matter what that project is, but I'd like for more collaboration :). >> As for Kolla-k8s we are still deep in development, so we are free to >> take best course of action we know of. We don't have any technical >> debt now. Current state of stuff represents what we thing is best >> approach. > I wonder if we can start writing these assumptions down and update them as we > go. I don't expect you to do it, I'm happy to help with this. We could put it > in > kolla-k8s docs if that makes sense to other kolla-k8s folks. It's not that Kolla-k8s has tech debt, but rather the community is still testing the waters with its implementation. For instance, the community is looking at a workflow that will execute the deployment of OpenStack and hand off to Kubernetes to manage it. This solution raises some questions: why do you need a workflow at all? Why not use Kubernetes, a Container Orchestration Engine, to orchestrate the services? A lot of these fundamental questions were outlined in this spec [1] and the answers to them are still WIP [3]. > I'll probably start pinging you guys on IRC with questions so I can help > writing > this down. That would be fantastic! There's also room for collaboration at summit too. Kolla-kubernetes will have a design session/fishbowl scheduled. >> There is also part that k8s is constantly growing and it lacks certain >> features that created these issues in the first place, if k8s solves >> them on their side, that will affect decision on our side. > Thanks a lot, Michal. This is indeed the kind of info I was looking for and > where I'd love to start from. Agreed Michal. The community has been adapting on the fly based on features coming out of Kubernetes. Things like init containers and petsets were recent features that have found their way into kolla-kubernetes. The flow of work in kolla-kubernetes has been following the work items in the spec [1], but in a different order. The basic outline for putting OpenStack on Kubernetes will follow a similar path. Where as things like the templates will be similar, but the orchestration method can vary. I think that's where the biggest controversy lies. Thanks! -Ryan [1] - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/304182/ [2] - https://specs.openstack.org/openstack/fuel-specs/specs/10.0/ccp.html [3] - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/335279/ __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s
Flavio Percoco wrote: Greetings, I've recently started looking into the container technologies around OpenStack. More specifically, I've been looking into the tools that allow for deploying OpenStack on containers, which is what I'm the most interested in right now as part of the TripleO efforts. I'm familiar with the Kolla project and the tools managed by this team. In fact, TripleO currently uses kolla images for the containerized nova-compute deployment. I am, however, looking beyond a docker based deployment. I'd like to explore in more depth a Kubernetes based deployment of OpenStack. I'm familiar with both kolla-kubernetes and fuel-ccp, their structure and direction*. Both projects have now advanced a bit in their implementations and made some decisions. As someone that started looking into this topic just recently, I'd love to see our communities collaborate more wherever possible. For example, it'd be great to see us working on a reference architecture for deploying OpenStack on kubernetes, letting the implementation details aside for a bit. I'd assume some folks have done this already and I bet we can all learn more from it if we work on this together. Can u describe here what u think 'deploying OpenStack on kubernetes' means to you, what is the boundary of OpenStack and what is the boundary of kubernetes in your mind? For example where does ironic fit in your view; where does nova fit in your view also. Is nova going to be deployed ontop of kubernetes and VM's will be spun up where? What about the baremetal (or VMs?) that kubernetes would need to run on (where is that coming from?). To me the 'OpenStack on kubernetes' is not really something a simple statement can answer, so I'd like to know what u think that statement means :) Btw, there is a sig-openstack in k8s, they also have a slack channel, and a google group https://groups.google.com/d/forum/kubernetes-sig-openstack (I'm not such a big fan of requiring people to find slack or google groups, but it is what it is...) Overall +1 to 'communities collaborate more wherever possible' I was trying to setup a keystone meeting with the sig-auth folks (I guess sig-auth is pretty much the equivalent of the keystone group in k8s); and someone is more than welcome to take that over (but again it depends on where in your mind a thing like keystone lives after put ontop/underneath/inside/all-around k8s+openstack). -Josh __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s
Yeah, would be very nice to have/reuse a place for highest level and projects independent specs to outline key architecture decisions like (WARN [tl;dr]: biased examples from a non existent prototype go below): * Shared nothing for stateful DB/MQ components (this means no shared storage for state keeping, but replicas instead) * And maybe place stateful and SDN/NFV/HW bound components *out* of COE scope (they are well known to like only stateless/serverless/schemaless/overlay only unicorns. A joke!..) * CM tools-agnostic containers build pipelines * Building images from sources but ship only artifacts w/o build deps * No entry points magic in build pipeline for containers images to be spawned by COE platforms as apps. * Rework components to support 12 factor apps requirements, e.g. redirect to stdout/stderr only, do not use implicit communication channels etc. * Runtime only data driven approach (no j2 templates for build pipeline please!) and more things... On 22.09.2016 16:49, Flavio Percoco wrote: > On 22/09/16 10:09 -0400, Davanum Srinivas wrote: >> Flavio >> >> Please see below: >> >> On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 7:04 AM, Flavio Percoco>> wrote: >>> Greetings, >>> >>> I've recently started looking into the container technologies around >>> OpenStack. >>> More specifically, I've been looking into the tools that allow for >>> deploying >>> OpenStack on containers, which is what I'm the most interested in >>> right now >>> as >>> part of the TripleO efforts. >>> >>> I'm familiar with the Kolla project and the tools managed by this >>> team. In >>> fact, >>> TripleO currently uses kolla images for the containerized nova-compute >>> deployment. >>> >>> I am, however, looking beyond a docker based deployment. I'd like to >>> explore >>> in >>> more depth a Kubernetes based deployment of OpenStack. I'm familiar with >>> both >>> kolla-kubernetes and fuel-ccp, their structure and direction*. Both >>> projects >>> have now advanced a bit in their implementations and made some >>> decisions. >>> >>> As someone that started looking into this topic just recently, I'd >>> love to >>> see >>> our communities collaborate more wherever possible. For example, it'd be >>> great >>> to see us working on a reference architecture for deploying OpenStack on >>> kubernetes, letting the implementation details aside for a bit. I'd >>> assume >>> some >>> folks have done this already and I bet we can all learn more from it >>> if we >>> work >>> on this together. >>> >>> So, let me go ahead and ask some further questions here, I might be >>> missing >>> some >>> history and/or context: >>> >>> - Is there any public documentation that acts as a reference >>> architecture >>> for >>> deploying OpenStack on kubernetes? >>> - Is this something the architecture working group could help with? >>> Or would >>> it >>> be better to hijack one of kolla meetings? >>> >>> The restult I'd love to see from this collaboration is a reference >>> architecture >>> explaining how OpenStack should be run on Kubernetes. >> >> At this moment, fuel-ccp-* is an experiment, it's not under >> governance, there is no expectation of any releases, there are no >> specs or docs that i know of. So kolla/kolla-kubernetes is probably >> the best accumulator of kubernetes knowledge specifically about >> running openstack. >> >> Note that tcpcloud folks may also have something, but haven't seen any >> public information or reference architecture from them. Definitely >> don't know of any plans from that team as well to open up and share. > > Yeah, I know all of the above, which is why I said I don't really care > about the > implementation detail of things. I think the knowledge the folks in > fuel-ccp > have and the knowledge folks in the kolla team have could produce a base > knowledge for folks looking into deploying OpenStack on kubernetes. > > It'd be great to see this happening and I'm sure teams would benefit > from it > too. > > Flavio > >>> Thanks in advance. I look forward to see us collaborate more on this >>> area, >>> Flavio >>> >>> * thanks to all fuel and kolla contributors that helped me understand >>> better >>> the >>> work in each of these projects and the direction they are headed >>> . >>> -- >>> @flaper87 >>> Flavio Percoco >>> >>> __ >>> >>> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) >>> Unsubscribe: >>> openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe >>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev >>> >> >> Thanks, >> Dims >> >> -- >> Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims >> >> __ >> >> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) >> Unsubscribe: >> openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe >> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev > > > >
Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s
On 22/09/16 10:49 -0500, Michał Jastrzębski wrote: So issue is, I know of few other openstacks on k8s and everyone does that slightly differently. So far we lack proof points and real world data to determine best approaches to stuff. This is still not-to-well researched field. Right now it's mostly opinions and assumptions. We're not ready to make document without having a flame war around it;) Not enough knowledge in our collective brains. Awesome input, thanks. As for Kolla-k8s we are still deep in development, so we are free to take best course of action we know of. We don't have any technical debt now. Current state of stuff represents what we thing is best approach. I wonder if we can start writing these assumptions down and update them as we go. I don't expect you to do it, I'm happy to help with this. We could put it in kolla-k8s docs if that makes sense to other kolla-k8s folks. I'll probably start pinging you guys on IRC with questions so I can help writing this down. There is also part that k8s is constantly growing and it lacks certain features that created these issues in the first place, if k8s solves them on their side, that will affect decision on our side. Thanks a lot, Michal. This is indeed the kind of info I was looking for and where I'd love to start from. Flavio Welcome to the Chaos;) On 22 September 2016 at 09:53, Flavio Percocowrote: On 22/09/16 09:39 -0500, Michał Jastrzębski wrote: Flavio, So as you surely know k8s is an orchiestration tools, docker is container engine. If you are running k8s, you still run docker:) I know this (although, if we really want to nitpick you could technically use something else than docker :P). In my email I mentioned that I'm interested in documenting how one would deploy OpenStack on kubernetes, which is likely different from how you'd deploy OpenStack on docker (or any other container runtime). Kolla-kubernetes is a part of Big Tent, is project developed by Kolla community and we're close to our big showdown:) Come over to our session in Barcelona, in the meantime I suggest you look at https://github.com/openstack/kolla-kubernetes and join us at #openstack-kolla Thakns for the info. As I mentioned in my email, I know kolla-kubernetes, I've reviewed some specs and patches, etc. I am, however, interested in something different which is how you'd deploy OpenStack on k8s. Is kolla-kubernetes doing this the right way? Is there a better way to do it? These are the kind of things I'd love to document. I know some OPs have contributed to kolla-kubernetes too. Thanks for getting back, Flavio On 22 September 2016 at 09:09, Davanum Srinivas wrote: Flavio Please see below: On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 7:04 AM, Flavio Percoco wrote: Greetings, I've recently started looking into the container technologies around OpenStack. More specifically, I've been looking into the tools that allow for deploying OpenStack on containers, which is what I'm the most interested in right now as part of the TripleO efforts. I'm familiar with the Kolla project and the tools managed by this team. In fact, TripleO currently uses kolla images for the containerized nova-compute deployment. I am, however, looking beyond a docker based deployment. I'd like to explore in more depth a Kubernetes based deployment of OpenStack. I'm familiar with both kolla-kubernetes and fuel-ccp, their structure and direction*. Both projects have now advanced a bit in their implementations and made some decisions. As someone that started looking into this topic just recently, I'd love to see our communities collaborate more wherever possible. For example, it'd be great to see us working on a reference architecture for deploying OpenStack on kubernetes, letting the implementation details aside for a bit. I'd assume some folks have done this already and I bet we can all learn more from it if we work on this together. So, let me go ahead and ask some further questions here, I might be missing some history and/or context: - Is there any public documentation that acts as a reference architecture for deploying OpenStack on kubernetes? - Is this something the architecture working group could help with? Or would it be better to hijack one of kolla meetings? The restult I'd love to see from this collaboration is a reference architecture explaining how OpenStack should be run on Kubernetes. At this moment, fuel-ccp-* is an experiment, it's not under governance, there is no expectation of any releases, there are no specs or docs that i know of. So kolla/kolla-kubernetes is probably the best accumulator of kubernetes knowledge specifically about running openstack. Note that tcpcloud folks may also have something, but haven't seen any public information or reference architecture from them. Definitely don't know of any plans from that team as well to open up and share. Thanks in advance. I look forward to see us
Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s
On 22/09/16 20:55 +, Steven Dake (stdake) wrote: Flavio, Apologies for delay in response – my backlog is large. Forgive me if I parsed your message incorrectly. It's probably me failing to communicate my intent or just the intent not being good enough or worth it at all. It came across to me as “How do I blaze a trail for OpenStack on Kubernetes?”. That was asked of me personally 3 years ago which led to the formation of the Kolla project inside Red Hat. Our initial effort at that activity failed. Instead we decided kubernetes wasn’t ready for trailblazing in this space and used a far more mature project (Ansible) to solve the “OpenStack in Containers” problems and build from there. We have since expanded our scope to re-solve the “How do I blaze a trail for Openstack on Kubernetes?” question since Kubernetes is now ready for this sort of trailblazing. Fuel and several other folks decided to create derived works of the Kolla community’s innovations in this area. I would contend that Fuel didn’t need to behave in such a way because the Kolla community is open, friendly, mature, diversely affiliated, has a reasonable philosophy and good set of principles as well as a strong leadership pipeline. Rather than go blaze a trail when one already exists or create a derived work, why not increase your footprint in Kolla instead? Red Hat has invested in Kolla for some time now, and their footprint hasn’t magically disappeared over night. We will give you what you want within reasonable boundaries (the boundaries all open-source projects set of their contributors). We also accept more work than the typical OpenStack project might, so it’s not like you will have to bring donuts into the office for every patch you merge into Kolla. As to your more direct question of reference architecture, that is a totally loaded term that I’ll leave untouched. To answer your question of “Does Kolla have a set of best practices” the answer is yes in kolla-ansible and kolla itself and strongly forming set of best practices in kolla-kubernetes. As I mentioned in my email, I don't really care about the implementation right now. I'm not trying to change the current teams, goals, or anything. I would go as far as saying that the acknowledgement of the existing teams in my original email was merely a way to identify a set of teams that might be interested in writing this reference architecture. Is it a loaded term? Maybe, is this point relevant for my original question? I'd say no. It doesn't matter what we call this, not to me, not right now. Don't get me wrong, I understand where you're coming from and I appreciate your input. Unfortunately, I think you addressed my email from the wrong angle as I'm a step (or many steps) early from doing any kind of implementation and I tried to be clear about this in my original email. I can contribute to kolla-kubernetes all you want but that won't give me what I asked for in my original email and I'm pretty sure there are opinions about the "recommended" way for running OpenStack on kubernetes. Questions like: Should I run rabbit in a container? Should I put my database in there too? Now with PetSets it might be possible. Can we be smarter on how we place the services in the cluster? Or should we go with the traditional controller/compute/storage architecture. You may argue that I should just read the yaml files from kolla-kubernetes and start from there. May be true but that's why I asked if there was something written already. Thanks for your email, Flavio Regards -steve On 9/22/16, 4:04 AM, "Flavio Percoco"wrote: Greetings, I've recently started looking into the container technologies around OpenStack. More specifically, I've been looking into the tools that allow for deploying OpenStack on containers, which is what I'm the most interested in right now as part of the TripleO efforts. I'm familiar with the Kolla project and the tools managed by this team. In fact, TripleO currently uses kolla images for the containerized nova-compute deployment. I am, however, looking beyond a docker based deployment. I'd like to explore in more depth a Kubernetes based deployment of OpenStack. I'm familiar with both kolla-kubernetes and fuel-ccp, their structure and direction*. Both projects have now advanced a bit in their implementations and made some decisions. As someone that started looking into this topic just recently, I'd love to see our communities collaborate more wherever possible. For example, it'd be great to see us working on a reference architecture for deploying OpenStack on kubernetes, letting the implementation details aside for a bit. I'd assume some folks have done this already and I bet we can all learn more from it if we work on this together. So, let me go ahead and ask some further questions here, I might be missing some history and/or
Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s
Flavio, Apologies for delay in response – my backlog is large. Forgive me if I parsed your message incorrectly. It came across to me as “How do I blaze a trail for OpenStack on Kubernetes?”. That was asked of me personally 3 years ago which led to the formation of the Kolla project inside Red Hat. Our initial effort at that activity failed. Instead we decided kubernetes wasn’t ready for trailblazing in this space and used a far more mature project (Ansible) to solve the “OpenStack in Containers” problems and build from there. We have since expanded our scope to re-solve the “How do I blaze a trail for Openstack on Kubernetes?” question since Kubernetes is now ready for this sort of trailblazing. Fuel and several other folks decided to create derived works of the Kolla community’s innovations in this area. I would contend that Fuel didn’t need to behave in such a way because the Kolla community is open, friendly, mature, diversely affiliated, has a reasonable philosophy and good set of principles as well as a strong leadership pipeline. Rather than go blaze a trail when one already exists or create a derived work, why not increase your footprint in Kolla instead? Red Hat has invested in Kolla for some time now, and their footprint hasn’t magically disappeared over night. We will give you what you want within reasonable boundaries (the boundaries all open-source projects set of their contributors). We also accept more work than the typical OpenStack project might, so it’s not like you will have to bring donuts into the office for every patch you merge into Kolla. As to your more direct question of reference architecture, that is a totally loaded term that I’ll leave untouched. To answer your question of “Does Kolla have a set of best practices” the answer is yes in kolla-ansible and kolla itself and strongly forming set of best practices in kolla-kubernetes. Regards -steve On 9/22/16, 4:04 AM, "Flavio Percoco"wrote: Greetings, I've recently started looking into the container technologies around OpenStack. More specifically, I've been looking into the tools that allow for deploying OpenStack on containers, which is what I'm the most interested in right now as part of the TripleO efforts. I'm familiar with the Kolla project and the tools managed by this team. In fact, TripleO currently uses kolla images for the containerized nova-compute deployment. I am, however, looking beyond a docker based deployment. I'd like to explore in more depth a Kubernetes based deployment of OpenStack. I'm familiar with both kolla-kubernetes and fuel-ccp, their structure and direction*. Both projects have now advanced a bit in their implementations and made some decisions. As someone that started looking into this topic just recently, I'd love to see our communities collaborate more wherever possible. For example, it'd be great to see us working on a reference architecture for deploying OpenStack on kubernetes, letting the implementation details aside for a bit. I'd assume some folks have done this already and I bet we can all learn more from it if we work on this together. So, let me go ahead and ask some further questions here, I might be missing some history and/or context: - Is there any public documentation that acts as a reference architecture for deploying OpenStack on kubernetes? - Is this something the architecture working group could help with? Or would it be better to hijack one of kolla meetings? The restult I'd love to see from this collaboration is a reference architecture explaining how OpenStack should be run on Kubernetes. Thanks in advance. I look forward to see us collaborate more on this area, Flavio * thanks to all fuel and kolla contributors that helped me understand better the work in each of these projects and the direction they are headed . -- @flaper87 Flavio Percoco __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s
So issue is, I know of few other openstacks on k8s and everyone does that slightly differently. So far we lack proof points and real world data to determine best approaches to stuff. This is still not-to-well researched field. Right now it's mostly opinions and assumptions. We're not ready to make document without having a flame war around it;) Not enough knowledge in our collective brains. As for Kolla-k8s we are still deep in development, so we are free to take best course of action we know of. We don't have any technical debt now. Current state of stuff represents what we thing is best approach. There is also part that k8s is constantly growing and it lacks certain features that created these issues in the first place, if k8s solves them on their side, that will affect decision on our side. Welcome to the Chaos;) On 22 September 2016 at 09:53, Flavio Percocowrote: > On 22/09/16 09:39 -0500, Michał Jastrzębski wrote: >> >> Flavio, >> >> So as you surely know k8s is an orchiestration tools, docker is >> container engine. If you are running k8s, you still run docker:) > > > I know this (although, if we really want to nitpick you could technically > use > something else than docker :P). In my email I mentioned that I'm interested > in > documenting how one would deploy OpenStack on kubernetes, which is likely > different from how you'd deploy OpenStack on docker (or any other container > runtime). > >> Kolla-kubernetes is a part of Big Tent, is project developed by Kolla >> community and we're close to our big showdown:) Come over to our >> session in Barcelona, in the meantime I suggest you look at >> https://github.com/openstack/kolla-kubernetes and join us at >> #openstack-kolla > > > Thakns for the info. As I mentioned in my email, I know kolla-kubernetes, > I've > reviewed some specs and patches, etc. I am, however, interested in something > different which is how you'd deploy OpenStack on k8s. Is kolla-kubernetes > doing > this the right way? Is there a better way to do it? These are the kind of > things > I'd love to document. I know some OPs have contributed to kolla-kubernetes > too. > > Thanks for getting back, > Flavio > > > >> On 22 September 2016 at 09:09, Davanum Srinivas wrote: >>> >>> Flavio >>> >>> Please see below: >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 7:04 AM, Flavio Percoco >>> wrote: Greetings, I've recently started looking into the container technologies around OpenStack. More specifically, I've been looking into the tools that allow for deploying OpenStack on containers, which is what I'm the most interested in right now as part of the TripleO efforts. I'm familiar with the Kolla project and the tools managed by this team. In fact, TripleO currently uses kolla images for the containerized nova-compute deployment. I am, however, looking beyond a docker based deployment. I'd like to explore in more depth a Kubernetes based deployment of OpenStack. I'm familiar with both kolla-kubernetes and fuel-ccp, their structure and direction*. Both projects have now advanced a bit in their implementations and made some decisions. As someone that started looking into this topic just recently, I'd love to see our communities collaborate more wherever possible. For example, it'd be great to see us working on a reference architecture for deploying OpenStack on kubernetes, letting the implementation details aside for a bit. I'd assume some folks have done this already and I bet we can all learn more from it if we work on this together. So, let me go ahead and ask some further questions here, I might be missing some history and/or context: - Is there any public documentation that acts as a reference architecture for deploying OpenStack on kubernetes? - Is this something the architecture working group could help with? Or would it be better to hijack one of kolla meetings? The restult I'd love to see from this collaboration is a reference architecture explaining how OpenStack should be run on Kubernetes. >>> >>> >>> At this moment, fuel-ccp-* is an experiment, it's not under >>> governance, there is no expectation of any releases, there are no >>> specs or docs that i know of. So kolla/kolla-kubernetes is probably >>> the best accumulator of kubernetes knowledge specifically about >>> running openstack. >>> >>> Note that tcpcloud folks may also have something, but haven't seen any >>> public information or reference architecture from them. Definitely >>> don't know of any plans from that team as well to open up and share. >>> Thanks in advance. I look forward to see us collaborate more on this area, Flavio * thanks to all fuel and
Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s
On 22/09/16 09:39 -0500, Michał Jastrzębski wrote: Flavio, So as you surely know k8s is an orchiestration tools, docker is container engine. If you are running k8s, you still run docker:) I know this (although, if we really want to nitpick you could technically use something else than docker :P). In my email I mentioned that I'm interested in documenting how one would deploy OpenStack on kubernetes, which is likely different from how you'd deploy OpenStack on docker (or any other container runtime). Kolla-kubernetes is a part of Big Tent, is project developed by Kolla community and we're close to our big showdown:) Come over to our session in Barcelona, in the meantime I suggest you look at https://github.com/openstack/kolla-kubernetes and join us at #openstack-kolla Thakns for the info. As I mentioned in my email, I know kolla-kubernetes, I've reviewed some specs and patches, etc. I am, however, interested in something different which is how you'd deploy OpenStack on k8s. Is kolla-kubernetes doing this the right way? Is there a better way to do it? These are the kind of things I'd love to document. I know some OPs have contributed to kolla-kubernetes too. Thanks for getting back, Flavio On 22 September 2016 at 09:09, Davanum Srinivaswrote: Flavio Please see below: On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 7:04 AM, Flavio Percoco wrote: Greetings, I've recently started looking into the container technologies around OpenStack. More specifically, I've been looking into the tools that allow for deploying OpenStack on containers, which is what I'm the most interested in right now as part of the TripleO efforts. I'm familiar with the Kolla project and the tools managed by this team. In fact, TripleO currently uses kolla images for the containerized nova-compute deployment. I am, however, looking beyond a docker based deployment. I'd like to explore in more depth a Kubernetes based deployment of OpenStack. I'm familiar with both kolla-kubernetes and fuel-ccp, their structure and direction*. Both projects have now advanced a bit in their implementations and made some decisions. As someone that started looking into this topic just recently, I'd love to see our communities collaborate more wherever possible. For example, it'd be great to see us working on a reference architecture for deploying OpenStack on kubernetes, letting the implementation details aside for a bit. I'd assume some folks have done this already and I bet we can all learn more from it if we work on this together. So, let me go ahead and ask some further questions here, I might be missing some history and/or context: - Is there any public documentation that acts as a reference architecture for deploying OpenStack on kubernetes? - Is this something the architecture working group could help with? Or would it be better to hijack one of kolla meetings? The restult I'd love to see from this collaboration is a reference architecture explaining how OpenStack should be run on Kubernetes. At this moment, fuel-ccp-* is an experiment, it's not under governance, there is no expectation of any releases, there are no specs or docs that i know of. So kolla/kolla-kubernetes is probably the best accumulator of kubernetes knowledge specifically about running openstack. Note that tcpcloud folks may also have something, but haven't seen any public information or reference architecture from them. Definitely don't know of any plans from that team as well to open up and share. Thanks in advance. I look forward to see us collaborate more on this area, Flavio * thanks to all fuel and kolla contributors that helped me understand better the work in each of these projects and the direction they are headed . -- @flaper87 Flavio Percoco __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev Thanks, Dims -- Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev -- @flaper87 Flavio Percoco signature.asc Description: PGP signature __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s
On 22/09/16 10:09 -0400, Davanum Srinivas wrote: Flavio Please see below: On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 7:04 AM, Flavio Percocowrote: Greetings, I've recently started looking into the container technologies around OpenStack. More specifically, I've been looking into the tools that allow for deploying OpenStack on containers, which is what I'm the most interested in right now as part of the TripleO efforts. I'm familiar with the Kolla project and the tools managed by this team. In fact, TripleO currently uses kolla images for the containerized nova-compute deployment. I am, however, looking beyond a docker based deployment. I'd like to explore in more depth a Kubernetes based deployment of OpenStack. I'm familiar with both kolla-kubernetes and fuel-ccp, their structure and direction*. Both projects have now advanced a bit in their implementations and made some decisions. As someone that started looking into this topic just recently, I'd love to see our communities collaborate more wherever possible. For example, it'd be great to see us working on a reference architecture for deploying OpenStack on kubernetes, letting the implementation details aside for a bit. I'd assume some folks have done this already and I bet we can all learn more from it if we work on this together. So, let me go ahead and ask some further questions here, I might be missing some history and/or context: - Is there any public documentation that acts as a reference architecture for deploying OpenStack on kubernetes? - Is this something the architecture working group could help with? Or would it be better to hijack one of kolla meetings? The restult I'd love to see from this collaboration is a reference architecture explaining how OpenStack should be run on Kubernetes. At this moment, fuel-ccp-* is an experiment, it's not under governance, there is no expectation of any releases, there are no specs or docs that i know of. So kolla/kolla-kubernetes is probably the best accumulator of kubernetes knowledge specifically about running openstack. Note that tcpcloud folks may also have something, but haven't seen any public information or reference architecture from them. Definitely don't know of any plans from that team as well to open up and share. Yeah, I know all of the above, which is why I said I don't really care about the implementation detail of things. I think the knowledge the folks in fuel-ccp have and the knowledge folks in the kolla team have could produce a base knowledge for folks looking into deploying OpenStack on kubernetes. It'd be great to see this happening and I'm sure teams would benefit from it too. Flavio Thanks in advance. I look forward to see us collaborate more on this area, Flavio * thanks to all fuel and kolla contributors that helped me understand better the work in each of these projects and the direction they are headed . -- @flaper87 Flavio Percoco __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev Thanks, Dims -- Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev -- @flaper87 Flavio Percoco signature.asc Description: PGP signature __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s
Flavio, So as you surely know k8s is an orchiestration tools, docker is container engine. If you are running k8s, you still run docker:) Kolla-kubernetes is a part of Big Tent, is project developed by Kolla community and we're close to our big showdown:) Come over to our session in Barcelona, in the meantime I suggest you look at https://github.com/openstack/kolla-kubernetes and join us at #openstack-kolla On 22 September 2016 at 09:09, Davanum Srinivaswrote: > Flavio > > Please see below: > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 7:04 AM, Flavio Percoco wrote: >> Greetings, >> >> I've recently started looking into the container technologies around >> OpenStack. >> More specifically, I've been looking into the tools that allow for deploying >> OpenStack on containers, which is what I'm the most interested in right now >> as >> part of the TripleO efforts. >> >> I'm familiar with the Kolla project and the tools managed by this team. In >> fact, >> TripleO currently uses kolla images for the containerized nova-compute >> deployment. >> >> I am, however, looking beyond a docker based deployment. I'd like to explore >> in >> more depth a Kubernetes based deployment of OpenStack. I'm familiar with >> both >> kolla-kubernetes and fuel-ccp, their structure and direction*. Both projects >> have now advanced a bit in their implementations and made some decisions. >> >> As someone that started looking into this topic just recently, I'd love to >> see >> our communities collaborate more wherever possible. For example, it'd be >> great >> to see us working on a reference architecture for deploying OpenStack on >> kubernetes, letting the implementation details aside for a bit. I'd assume >> some >> folks have done this already and I bet we can all learn more from it if we >> work >> on this together. >> >> So, let me go ahead and ask some further questions here, I might be missing >> some >> history and/or context: >> >> - Is there any public documentation that acts as a reference architecture >> for >> deploying OpenStack on kubernetes? >> - Is this something the architecture working group could help with? Or would >> it >> be better to hijack one of kolla meetings? >> >> The restult I'd love to see from this collaboration is a reference >> architecture >> explaining how OpenStack should be run on Kubernetes. > > At this moment, fuel-ccp-* is an experiment, it's not under > governance, there is no expectation of any releases, there are no > specs or docs that i know of. So kolla/kolla-kubernetes is probably > the best accumulator of kubernetes knowledge specifically about > running openstack. > > Note that tcpcloud folks may also have something, but haven't seen any > public information or reference architecture from them. Definitely > don't know of any plans from that team as well to open up and share. > >> Thanks in advance. I look forward to see us collaborate more on this area, >> Flavio >> >> * thanks to all fuel and kolla contributors that helped me understand better >> the >> work in each of these projects and the direction they are headed >> . >> -- >> @flaper87 >> Flavio Percoco >> >> __ >> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) >> Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe >> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev >> > > Thanks, > Dims > > -- > Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims > > __ > OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) > Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s
Flavio Please see below: On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 7:04 AM, Flavio Percocowrote: > Greetings, > > I've recently started looking into the container technologies around > OpenStack. > More specifically, I've been looking into the tools that allow for deploying > OpenStack on containers, which is what I'm the most interested in right now > as > part of the TripleO efforts. > > I'm familiar with the Kolla project and the tools managed by this team. In > fact, > TripleO currently uses kolla images for the containerized nova-compute > deployment. > > I am, however, looking beyond a docker based deployment. I'd like to explore > in > more depth a Kubernetes based deployment of OpenStack. I'm familiar with > both > kolla-kubernetes and fuel-ccp, their structure and direction*. Both projects > have now advanced a bit in their implementations and made some decisions. > > As someone that started looking into this topic just recently, I'd love to > see > our communities collaborate more wherever possible. For example, it'd be > great > to see us working on a reference architecture for deploying OpenStack on > kubernetes, letting the implementation details aside for a bit. I'd assume > some > folks have done this already and I bet we can all learn more from it if we > work > on this together. > > So, let me go ahead and ask some further questions here, I might be missing > some > history and/or context: > > - Is there any public documentation that acts as a reference architecture > for > deploying OpenStack on kubernetes? > - Is this something the architecture working group could help with? Or would > it > be better to hijack one of kolla meetings? > > The restult I'd love to see from this collaboration is a reference > architecture > explaining how OpenStack should be run on Kubernetes. At this moment, fuel-ccp-* is an experiment, it's not under governance, there is no expectation of any releases, there are no specs or docs that i know of. So kolla/kolla-kubernetes is probably the best accumulator of kubernetes knowledge specifically about running openstack. Note that tcpcloud folks may also have something, but haven't seen any public information or reference architecture from them. Definitely don't know of any plans from that team as well to open up and share. > Thanks in advance. I look forward to see us collaborate more on this area, > Flavio > > * thanks to all fuel and kolla contributors that helped me understand better > the > work in each of these projects and the direction they are headed > . > -- > @flaper87 > Flavio Percoco > > __ > OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) > Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev > Thanks, Dims -- Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
[openstack-dev] [kolla][fuel][tripleo] Reference architecture to deploy OpenStack on k8s
Greetings, I've recently started looking into the container technologies around OpenStack. More specifically, I've been looking into the tools that allow for deploying OpenStack on containers, which is what I'm the most interested in right now as part of the TripleO efforts. I'm familiar with the Kolla project and the tools managed by this team. In fact, TripleO currently uses kolla images for the containerized nova-compute deployment. I am, however, looking beyond a docker based deployment. I'd like to explore in more depth a Kubernetes based deployment of OpenStack. I'm familiar with both kolla-kubernetes and fuel-ccp, their structure and direction*. Both projects have now advanced a bit in their implementations and made some decisions. As someone that started looking into this topic just recently, I'd love to see our communities collaborate more wherever possible. For example, it'd be great to see us working on a reference architecture for deploying OpenStack on kubernetes, letting the implementation details aside for a bit. I'd assume some folks have done this already and I bet we can all learn more from it if we work on this together. So, let me go ahead and ask some further questions here, I might be missing some history and/or context: - Is there any public documentation that acts as a reference architecture for deploying OpenStack on kubernetes? - Is this something the architecture working group could help with? Or would it be better to hijack one of kolla meetings? The restult I'd love to see from this collaboration is a reference architecture explaining how OpenStack should be run on Kubernetes. Thanks in advance. I look forward to see us collaborate more on this area, Flavio * thanks to all fuel and kolla contributors that helped me understand better the work in each of these projects and the direction they are headed . -- @flaper87 Flavio Percoco signature.asc Description: PGP signature __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev