Re: [ozmidwifery] URGENT Victorian Election Rally - Wed Nov 13
Title: URGENT Victorian Election Rally - Wed Nov 13 Hi Justine, Please let me know when the venue for the rally has been confirmed. I will be there with bells on! Be good to meet you too. Regards Sally - Original Message - From: Justine Caines To: OzMid List ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Sally-Anne Brown Cc: Vanessa Owen Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 1:06 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] URGENT Victorian Election Rally - Wed Nov 13 Hello AllThe Greens have decided to make the National Maternity Action Plan (NMAP) the main feature of their health policy launch. This launch is to take place on Wednesday November 13 at 11am, venue to be confirmed (somewhere in Melb city, sorry will confirm with another e-mail). Maternity Coalition will be there to support the Greens and particularly to shame the major parties into action. We will demonstrate that midwifery care is an issue to many of the 60 odd thousand women that given birth and their families, but also the misuse of health funding (where obstetrics treats the majority) is of concern to the majority of Victorians.We need as many there as possible (esp lots of babies and children). Please if you plan to do one thing for NMAP DO THIS, it is a long time between elections and as the last election resulted in a minority government the preferences from parties such as the Greens are critical to the major parties so we have a real chance of making headway. If you are a definite can you please e-mail be back off list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] so I can get an idea of numbers.I hope to see heaps of midwives, consumers and B-Midders on Wednesday!Yours in solidarityJustine Caines
Re: [ozmidwifery] Haemoglobin and ferritin levels
In a message dated 8/11/02 10:05:31 PM AUS Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi, Needing some help to clarify the difference between haemoglobin levels and ferritin levels. Have a local GP who switches between the two readings depending on which one is lowest and suggests/insists on iron injections. Levels I've had quoted from some of the women are: Hb 107 Ferritin 14 another: Hb 109 Ferritin 13 These two women are both 32 weeks. Just needing clarification and some evidence about the relevance of both/either readings. Hb levels seem fine to me - a bit foxed by the ferritin level - one woman had dropped from 120 early pregnancy to 14 now... Look forward to your fine input, Sue Hi Sue my understanding of the difference between the two is... Hb is the measurement of functional iron used in O2 transport and cellular respiration (just did my AP on blood and respiration :-)) ) and serum ferritin (SF) reflects the measurements of available storage levels of iron (as ferritin protein in plasma) therefore storage iron (SF) measurements could be used as indicators of iron 'stores' available for metabolic needs... It makes sense does it not then that SF levels would drop over the length of the pregnancy as iron stores were are utilised to accommodate increased metabolic needs in pregnancy and the growing baby??? I suppose the million dollar question is what is an acceptable drop in SF?? I can't help you with this bit :-) yours in reforming midwifery, Tina pettigrew. B Mid Student Victoria University
Re: [ozmidwifery] another horror story: closure is a myth
Dear list, On a film/documentary on rape a counsellor made the following statement,Closure is a myth, a woman after being raped is never the same.She then quoted a case where a woman never slept more than 2-3 hours,wore runners to bed( she thought that if she had being wearing runners she could have escaped) and her marriage broke up.I thought after a horrible birth a woman is never the same.I know I am not the same woman before I had Edwina almost 4 years ago.I changed insurance co. so a homebirth would be covered and soon after having Samuel we changed to just basic cover as I no longer trusted private hospitals( Edwina was born in a private hospital).I also started setting boundaries with people and with the time and money saved started a small investment portfolio.This has grown over time to possibly giving us in the next 1-2 years a basic income.Is this better than before?Quite honestly I don't know but it is 'different' to where I was 4 years ago.Ann --- Andrea Bilcliff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: MessageYesterday I heard about a woman who birthed recently. She arrived at hospital already 5cm dilated after just having a 'show' at home. She was pressured into having an ARM to 'get things moving along' (?!?!). This was her first baby and he was born with the aid of forceps (after a failed vacuum extraction) just four hours later for failure to progress! There was no fetal distress prior to the birth but her baby needed resuscitation and went 'battered bruised' to the nursery. She was told that if her baby had gone to term (he was 10 days 'early') he would have died because the cord was around his neck! The woman developed an infection and is having breastfeeding problems. Needless to say she wants a homebirth if there is a next time. Vicki's right...it is tragic : ( Andrea B - Original Message - From: Vicki Chan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 12:37 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] another horror story A woman I spoke to yesterday spoke of her starstruck obstetrician being overly excited about the celeb status of her husband...her labour was rocking along beautifully but it didnt look like hubby would make it for the birth...the ob arranged for her to have an epidural which rendered her incapacitated when her husband finally made it... no problem! that's why God invented Vacuum Extractors!! Her first babe she'd managed to birth unaided. Tragic! We could (and will, no doubt) go on! __ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Is it really necessary?
Hi Gabrielle, Is that the Gabe who used to work in Mareeba? Irene Munro __ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] URGENT Victorian Election Rally - Wed Nov 13
Title: URGENT Victorian Election Rally - Wed Nov 13 Yes Please - tell me where the rally is Pinky - Original Message - From: Sally Williams To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] URGENT Victorian Election Rally - Wed Nov 13 Hi Justine, Please let me know when the venue for the rally has been confirmed. I will be there with bells on! Be good to meet you too. Regards Sally - Original Message - From: Justine Caines To: OzMid List ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Sally-Anne Brown Cc: Vanessa Owen Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 1:06 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] URGENT Victorian Election Rally - Wed Nov 13 Hello AllThe Greens have decided to make the National Maternity Action Plan (NMAP) the main feature of their health policy launch. This launch is to take place on Wednesday November 13 at 11am, venue to be confirmed (somewhere in Melb city, sorry will confirm with another e-mail). Maternity Coalition will be there to support the Greens and particularly to shame the major parties into action. We will demonstrate that midwifery care is an issue to many of the 60 odd thousand women that given birth and their families, but also the misuse of health funding (where obstetrics treats the majority) is of concern to the majority of Victorians.We need as many there as possible (esp lots of babies and children). Please if you plan to do one thing for NMAP DO THIS, it is a long time between elections and as the last election resulted in a minority government the preferences from parties such as the Greens are critical to the major parties so we have a real chance of making headway. If you are a definite can you please e-mail be back off list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] so I can get an idea of numbers.I hope to see heaps of midwives, consumers and B-Midders on Wednesday!Yours in solidarityJustine Caines
[ozmidwifery] what doctors learn at med school!
Hi again all, had an interesting afternoon today at a BBQ with some old work mates...One friend who I worked at CSIRO with eons ago (past life stuff) like me had a radical change in occupation and went to do nursing...she finished her nursing about 8 years agoanyhowshe brought a friend to the BBQ ...a "work colleague" I just assumed this woman was a nurse too...anyhow got chatting as you do...my friend announced to her "work colleague" that I was doing midwifery.So your a nurse too she asked...No...I'm not a nurse doing the new Bachelor of Midwiferybla bla"Direct entry" my friend announcesone of THOSE midwives who think they are not part of the nursing profession. ...Well that went down REAL well...she always did know how to get my hackles up...thought I had educated her better than that...but can see she has been educated by others than just I...:-(( No not "direct entry" I replied...we don't do direct entry nursingor direct entry medicine...or direct law or accounting...bla bla bla..Anyhow ...finally this "work colleague" couldn't resist and announced that she was a MO...doing her internshipand wanted to know more about "the likes of you" doing midwifery without nursing first"do you do any physiology???" bla bla bla I guess you can imagine the conversation from there... The conversion progressed quickly back to medicine...I wanted to pick her brains about being a beginning practitioner and her thoughts on the health care system...What struck me immediately was her sheer arrogance and lack of understanding of peopleamazingAccording to her the general public are all "fu-k--- nuff nuffs""parents have no parenting skills".."the public all just want to sue us". She was just fascinated to think that I would even consider private practice as a midwife..."too scary - you must be fu--ing mad!!" and "noone from uni is even considering obs and gynae as its just too risky". This woman is 25 years old and already educated with the 'fear factor'. She stated openly that as doctors they are taught at med school that a "trusting relationship with your patients" is non existent as the patient only looks to the doctor fix up their problems and will sue if they don't..and the doctor looks at the patient thinking all you want is to sue meI was totally blown away by this...oh yeh she says..."its the underlying premise in all that we do"..."we have to always be thinking at every moment...are you the one who is going to make my life hell?" How scary is this folks???These are the obs of the future...This woman has this level of fear ingrained into her already..I couldn't believe what I was hearingI was almost lost for words...beleive it or not! Ahhh I said..."that's where midwives have it all over doctorsour basic premise is trustfor if we can't establish our professional relationships on thatlike you guys are discovering...when it all comes tumbling downyou have nothing else" Trust and communication.two important factors in not getting sued I'd reckon..but hey who am Ionly a "nuf nuff" in her eyes... Cheers Tina P.
[ozmidwifery] chilly Minnesota USA
Title: Message Ooh, Kirsten... I was in Minneapolis last October for the Lamaze conference...the air sure had a bite to it then so cant even imagine how chilly it gets getting towards Christmas... from Sunny Queensland... Vicki -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Kirsten BlackerSent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 1:04 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] BRUSHING TEETH I"ve always been told that once teeth are there they need to be brushed. Initially with a piece of gauze on your finger, then a baby toothbrush. But no toothpaste till they are 2. That advice came from an ex dental nurse Kirsten Blacker in chilly Minnesota USA - Original Message - From: Lyn Cottee To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 4:00 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] BRUSHING TEETH Dear List, Can anyone tell me when a good time to start brushing a baby's teeth is? She's 14 months and has 9 beautiful teeth. She eats no sugary foods (unless they're naturally occurring, such as in fruit) and has her own toothbrush and natural toothpaste, with no SLS or fluoride in it. I've tried brushing on numerous occasions and it's a lot of fun, but not that effective, as she finds biting the toothbrush and swallowing the toothpaste far more interesting than having a good brush. Should I not stress about it, or should I work harder to establish an effective oral hygiene routine? I'm asking you guys as I take the available information from toothbrush and toothpaste! ! manufacturers with a pinch of salt... Love, Lyn Cottee
RE: [ozmidwifery] what doctors learn at med school!
Title: Message Hey Tina nuff nuff...nah, dont believe that you were lost for words for a minute!!! You still sure managed to say quite a bit!! One thing I'd really like to do is present my (our...Nic and Vic) stuff to the med students/medicos/obstetricians... Vicki -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 9:17 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] what doctors learn at med school! Hi again all,had an interesting afternoon today at a BBQ with some old work mates...One friend who I worked at CSIRO with eons ago (past life stuff) like me had a radical change in occupation and went to do nursing...she finished her nursing about 8 years agoanyhowshe brought a friend to the BBQ ...a "work colleague" I just assumed this woman was a nurse too...anyhow got chatting as you do...my friend announced to her "work colleague" that I was doing midwifery.So your a nurse too she asked...No...I'm not a nurse doing the new Bachelor of Midwiferybla bla"Direct entry" my friend announcesone of THOSE midwives who think they are not part of the nursing profession. ...Well that went down REAL well...she always did know how to get my hackles up...thought I had educated her better than that...but can see she has been educated by others than just I...:-((No not "direct entry" I replied...we don't do direct entry nursingor direct entry medicine...or direct law or accounting...bla bla bla..Anyhow ...finally this "work colleague" couldn't resist and announced that she was a MO...doing her internshipand wanted to know more about "the likes of you" doing midwifery without nursing first"do you do any physiology???" bla bla bla I guess you can imagine the conversation from there...The conversion progressed quickly back to medicine...I wanted to pick her brains about being a beginning practitioner and her thoughts on the health care system...What struck me immediately was her sheer arrogance and lack of understanding of peopleamazingAccording to her the general public are all "fu-k--- nuff nuffs""parents have no parenting skills".."the public all just want to sue us". She was just fascinated to think that I would even consider private practice as a midwife..."too scary - you must be fu--ing mad!!" and "noone from uni is even considering obs and gynae as its just too risky". This woman is 25 years old and already educated with the 'fear factor'. She stated openly that as doctors they are taught at med school that a "trusting relationship with your patients" is non existent as the patient only looks to the doctor fix up their problems and will sue if they don't..and the doctor looks at the patient thinking all you want is to sue meI was totally blown away by this...oh yeh she says..."its the underlying premise in all that we do"..."we have to always be thinking at every moment...are you the one who is going to make my life hell?"How scary is this folks???These are the obs of the future...This woman has this level of fear ingrained into her already..I couldn't believe what I was hearingI was almost lost for words...beleive it or not!Ahhh I said..."that's where midwives have it all over doctorsour basic premise is trustfor if we can't establish our professional relationships on thatlike you guys are discovering...when it all comes tumbling downyou have nothing else"Trust and communication.two important factors in not getting sued I'd reckon..but hey who am Ionly a "nuf nuff" in her eyes...Cheers Tina P.
[ozmidwifery] obs and gobs
Title: Message this fine bit of teaching I just came across from the uni of melb obs and gobs... should set our little hearts at rest... Primigravida Labour often begins slowly (the latent phase). False alarms or spurious labour are common. The duration of labour averages 14 h, augmentation with oxytocin is often indicated, epidural analgesia frequently requested. The 2nd stage is often particularly slow due to the poor compliance of vagina and pelvic floor. Instrumental vaginal delivery is not uncommonly needed. dont tell me they aint got faith!!! or what about this one... Natural Course of Obstructed Labour Primigravida The uterus responds to slow progress with a reduction in the intensity and frequency of contractions thereby further exacerbating the lack of progress. The natural course of neglected obstructed labour is to contract on and off for several days. The presenting part becomes impacted in the pelvic brim, the intervening tissues undergo pressure necrosis, infection develops, the fetus dies and with the skull bones collapsed, the fetus is able to deliver vaginally. An obstetric fistula is the long-term result. please, bring me the forceps this very minute!! Vicki http://www.obsgyn.unimelb.edu.au/Teaching/MHW%20Protocols/Obstetrics/Intra-Partum%20Care.htm
Re: [ozmidwifery] another horror story: closure is a myth
Ann, I think you are right - I think that after a "birth rape" experience a woman does not find closure at all. I think that if she is as lucky as i have been and finds wonderful people like all of you to both vent to and to shed some understanding of the situation and hope of it not recurring, then she may find acceptance of what has happened and find a way to live with it as an unfortunate thing that happened. I don't think that anyone can really find closure to something so traumatic which has no closure - closure to meinsinuates an understanding of the reason why and acceptance of it. I don't think there can ever be true closure because there is no real reason "Why?" there is no answer. I found closure after the traumatic yet acceptable birth of my daughter, I got sick with Pre eclampsia - there was a reason. With my son there was NO reason for the stupidity and cruelty of them and therefore there can never be true closure. Hope that makes sence as I know for many midwives who have been unable to protect women from these things that their inner torment has no closure - there is just an acceptance of the things we cannot change and a strength to change the events of the future to prevent a recurance. Regards Rhonda. ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, November 09, 2002 22:17:05 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] another horror story: closure is a myth Dear list,On a film/documentary on rape a counsellor made thefollowing statement,"Closure is a myth, a woman afterbeing raped is never the same."She then quoted a casewhere a woman never slept more than 2-3 hours,worerunners to bed( she thought that if she had beingwearing runners she could have escaped) and hermarriage broke up.I thought after a horrible birth awoman is never the same.I know I am not the same womanbefore I had Edwina almost 4 years ago.I changedinsurance co. so a homebirth would be covered and soonafter having Samuel we changed to just basic cover asI no longer trusted private hospitals( Edwina was bornin a private hospital).I also started settingboundaries with people and with the time and moneysaved started a small investment portfolio.This hasgrown over time to possibly giving us in the next 1-2years a basic income.Is this better than before?Quitehonestly I don't know but it is 'different' to where Iwas 4 years ago.Ann --- Andrea Bilcliff[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: MessageYesterday Iheard about a woman who birthed recently. She arrived at hospital already 5cm dilated after just having a 'show' at home. She was pressured into having an ARM to 'get things moving along' (?!?!). This was her first baby and he was born with the aid of forceps (after a failed vacuum extraction) just four hours later for failure to progress! There was no fetal distress prior to the birth but her baby needed resuscitation and went 'battered bruised' to the nursery. She was told that if her baby had gone to term (he was 10 days 'early') he would have died because the cord was around his neck! The woman developed an infection and is having breastfeeding problems. Needless to say she wants a homebirth if there is a next time. Vicki's right...it is tragic : ( Andrea B - Original Message - From: Vicki Chan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 12:37 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] another horror story A woman I spoke to yesterday spoke of her starstruck obstetrician being overly excited about the celeb status of her husband...her labour was rocking along beautifully but it didnt look like hubby would make it for the birth...the ob arranged for her to have an epidural which rendered her incapacitated when her husband finally made it... no problem! that's why God invented Vacuum Extractors!! Her first babe she'd managed to birth unaided. Tragic! We could (and will, no doubt) go on! __Do You Yahoo!?Everything you'll ever need on one web pagefrom News and Sport to Email and Music Chartshttp://uk.my.yahoo.com--This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.. IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
Re: [ozmidwifery] chilly Minnesota USA
Title: Message that's about an hour from me, I'm in Rochester. And last year was an incredibly MILD winter. Kirsten - Original Message - From: Vicki Chan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 4:45 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] chilly Minnesota USA Ooh, Kirsten... I was in Minneapolis last October for the Lamaze conference...the air sure had a bite to it then so cant even imagine how chilly it gets getting towards Christmas... from Sunny Queensland... Vicki -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Kirsten BlackerSent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 1:04 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] BRUSHING TEETH I"ve always been told that once teeth are there they need to be brushed. Initially with a piece of gauze on your finger, then a baby toothbrush. But no toothpaste till they are 2. That advice came from an ex dental nurse Kirsten Blacker in chilly Minnesota USA - Original Message - From: Lyn Cottee To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 4:00 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] BRUSHING TEETH Dear List, Can anyone tell me when a good time to start brushing a baby's teeth is? She's 14 months and has 9 beautiful teeth. She eats no sugary foods (unless they're naturally occurring, such as in fruit) and has her own toothbrush and natural toothpaste, with no SLS or fluoride in it. I've tried brushing on numerous occasions and it's a lot of fun, but not that effective, as she finds biting the toothbrush and swallowing the toothpaste far more interesting than having a good brush. Should I not stress about it, or should I work harder to establish an effective oral hygiene routine? I'm asking you guys as I take the available information from toothbrush and toothpaste! ! manufacturers with a pinch of salt... Love, Lyn Cottee
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: training
Hi Lorraine, No, this is not something we offer ( not that I haven't thought about it, however!). I think there is a real need for some kind of course to help midwives make the move from hospital to home births, but until we sort out the insurance issues etc it is probably not the right time to be working on such a course. Cheers Andrea At 14:46 8/11/2002, Laraine Hood wrote: Hi Andrea. Do you also have 'training' for independent midwives? ie those who are RMs and wish to venture into private practice or homebirthing? Laraine - Andrea Robertson Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] registration
Thanks Sally. I agree, having experienced the political climate of at least 2 types of midwives, I wouldn't like to see a regulated division either. However, I think that is very unlikely in Australia given the very different herstories of midwifery in North America and here. There, midwifery as such was illegal/or regulated out in most (never all) states and provinces for around half of the last century and so how it re-emerged in different places coloured its expression: nurse midwife, lay midwife, direct entry midwife, hospital trained, apprentice -trained, university educated etc.. At least in the USA and Canada they are finally finding ways to recognize most of the various kinds of midwives who would like to be recognized as midwives. Anway, I am mainly interested in how to sign off my notes, and if RM works, it works for me. marilyn marilyn - Original Message - From: Sally Westbury [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 10:04 PM Subject: FW: [ozmidwifery] registration I would not like to see different levels of midwives I feel that this would be a slippery slope indeed... so my vote is if you are registered with the QNC that you are a registered midwife. In peace and joy Sally Westbury -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery;acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Maternity Ward Mareeba Hospital Sent: Saturday, 9 November 2002 7:49 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] registration Why not Midwife the nurse part is irrelevant. Megan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8/11/2002 7:55:13 am Well, good on you Marilyn. There will be more following you. (I canny wait!!) I think RM is right. You are registered as a midwife. I worked with a lady in Abu Dhabi - direct entry midwife who was going to NSW and got registration there. love, Liz - Original Message - From: Marilyn Kleidon To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 1:17 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] registration NO Liz I am not a nurse, I am direct entry fom the USA, I am home birth trained/educated except for the 4 weeks I spent at St. George Delivery Suite and the 3 weeks at Mareeba under supervision. Which actually is why I said non-nurse because on my registration paper, beside the nurse category is printed non-nurse, and on the bottom the paper says non-nurse midwife only. You can see this on the QNC web site. And the QNC does have the ACMI competencies (which had to be checked off during the supervision) and a lovely ACMI midwife handbook that is sent out with the authorisation. It is interesting, in my job search I have sent a few letters out, one to a private hospital up north mainly because it is close to relatives, well they called me to find out my ceasarean experience which I had to admit willingly was very small, no, I have not topped off an epidural after a c/s. All I can say is people really don't read cv/resumes do they! Anyway, I don't think they will be offering me a job, which is probably a good thing all round. So, I am just a little confused as to what initials to put after my name. In Washington I was LM for licensed midwife which distinguishes someone like me from a LCNM (licensed certified nurse midwife) in Washington. I am more than happy to right RM but I think really I am an AM (authorised midwife) or maybe a NNM (non-nuse midwife). I just really don't want to misrepresent myself. Back to the various nursing councils/boards, I did get lots of excellent advice from everyone on this list, however I do think many people thought Queensland might be the last state to authorise me. I downloaded the application forms from each state and I thought Queendland's were the most user friendly to someone like me. I mean they had a box to check for midwife only. Of course I am originally a Queenslander so I am thrilled that the QNC approved my application. I guess if I choose to travel then other states also have to approve me under mutual recognition. marilyn (still thrilled) - Original Message - From: elizabeth mcalpine To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 3:07 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] registration Marilyn, Are you also a nurse? Because when I told the Vic Nurses Board that I only wanted to register as a midwife, they told me that it was not possible. I asked about the new midwives - those graduates without nursing- I was told they'd think of that then. Liz Mc - Original Message - From: Aviva Sheb'a To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] registration Hearty, hearty CONGRATULATIONS, Marilyn!!! Well done! May you assist women and babies -- and fathers -- in beautiful births for many years to come! Love, Aviva - Original Message
[ozmidwifery] Re: Internship Possibility
On 6/11/02 5:37 AM, Rachel Young [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Jan and Midwife Staff, I am Australian although I am currently working in the United States. Our organisation works with high school and university students placing them into internship abroad poisitions in order for them to gain valuable vocational awareness. I am currently writing to you as I have a lovely 18 year old girl who is interested in learning all about becoming a midwife. Lily Harris, 18, would like to travel to Australia and participate in a midwifery internhsip starting in January, 2003. This would essentially involve Lily simply shadowing a midwife/s for around 8 weeks and learning as much as she could throughout this experience. Lily has plans to formally study midwifery upon her return to the States and believes that this would be a wonderful opportunity for her to see the field of midwifery first hand, whilst having an experience abroad at the same time. I have placed one student with a midwife at a hospital in Mackay, however, I would really love to explore any options or suggestions you may have for a possible placement with any midwives you know who would be interested in sharing their knowledge with Lily. Lily will provide her own accommodation and meals and will be fairly self sufficient whilst in Australia. She is simply looking for an opportunity to get a head start to her studies by doing an internship. I really hope you are able to provide some information on where I might begin this search, alternatively, you may know of someone who would like to have Lily. She is interested in either private or public practice, home birthing as well as hospital births. She is not limiting her choices by being too specific. I thank you in advance and hope to hear from you at your earliest convenience. Kind regards, Rachel Young, Director of Operations LEAPNow: Lifelong Education Alternatives Programs P.O. Box 1817, Sebastopol, CA 95473 USA Phone: 707-829-1142 Fax: 829-1142 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] LEAPNow website: www.leapnow.org Dear Rachel I can contact independently practising midwives (IPMs) across Australia but would need to know which city or town Lily is interested in visiting. You need to know that currently there is no professional indemnity available to IPMs and those remaining in practice, I believe there are only 40 or so across the country supporting homebirthing women, are uninsured. Alternatively I could forward this letter to the editor of the Australian College of Midwives Journal so that she could place it in the national magazine and perhaps attract the attention of an administrator of a maternity hospital unit that would like to have Lily as their guest. Let me know which avenue you would have me try. In the meantime I will forward this to the ozmidwifery chatline and see if any midwife there responds to your request. Regards Jan __ Jan Robinson Phone/fax: 011+ 61+ 2+ 9546 4350 Independent Midwife Practitioner e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8 Robin Crescent www: midwiferyeducation.com.au South Hurstville NSW 2221National Coordinator, ASIM __ -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Private health midwives
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] Private health midwives On 8/11/02 9:25 PM, Robin Moon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know of any references pertaining to Midwives working in the Private system, specifically in Australia? Cinahl is coming up blank for me. thanks, Robin Hi Robin What type of references do you want? The Australian Society of Independent Midwives (ASIM) has a Members Directory giving details of all members in private practice across Australia. Contact me is you want a copy. Jan __ Jan Robinson Phone/fax: 011+ 61+ 2+ 9546 4350 Independent Midwife Practitioner e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8 Robin Crescent www: midwiferyeducation.com.au South Hurstville NSW 2221 National Coordinator, ASIM __
Re: [ozmidwifery] what doctors learn at med school!
Title: Message Absolutely Vicki,because if there's no contrast between dehumanized birth vis a vis humanized birth they don't know. I want to help in this regard. Love lizmc - Original Message - From: Vicki Chan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 11:54 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] what doctors learn at med school! Hey Tina nuff nuff...nah, dont believe that you were lost for words for a minute!!! You still sure managed to say quite a bit!! One thing I'd really like to do is present my (our...Nic and Vic) stuff to the med students/medicos/obstetricians... Vicki -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 9:17 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] what doctors learn at med school! Hi again all,had an interesting afternoon today at a BBQ with some old work mates...One friend who I worked at CSIRO with eons ago (past life stuff) like me had a radical change in occupation and went to do nursing...she finished her nursing about 8 years agoanyhowshe brought a friend to the BBQ ...a "work colleague" I just assumed this woman was a nurse too...anyhow got chatting as you do...my friend announced to her "work colleague" that I was doing midwifery.So your a nurse too she asked...No...I'm not a nurse doing the new Bachelor of Midwiferybla bla"Direct entry" my friend announcesone of THOSE midwives who think they are not part of the nursing profession. ...Well that went down REAL well...she always did know how to get my hackles up...thought I had educated her better than that...but can see she has been educated by others than just I...:-((No not "direct entry" I replied...we don't do direct entry nursingor direct entry medicine...or direct law or accounting...bla bla bla..Anyhow ...finally this "work colleague" couldn't resist and announced that she was a MO...doing her internshipand wanted to know more about "the likes of you" doing midwifery without nursing first"do you do any physiology???" bla bla bla I guess you can imagine the conversation from there...The conversion progressed quickly back to medicine...I wanted to pick her brains about being a beginning practitioner and her thoughts on the health care system...What struck me immediately was her sheer arrogance and lack of understanding of peopleamazingAccording to her the general public are all "fu-k--- nuff nuffs""parents have no parenting skills".."the public all just want to sue us". She was just fascinated to think that I would even consider private practice as a midwife..."too scary - you must be fu--ing mad!!" and "noone from uni is even considering obs and gynae as its just too risky". This woman is 25 years old and already educated with the 'fear factor'. She stated openly that as doctors they are taught at med school that a "trusting relationship with your patients" is non existent as the patient only looks to the doctor fix up their problems and will sue if they don't..and the doctor looks at the patient thinking all you want is to sue meI was totally blown away by this...oh yeh she says..."its the underlying premise in all that we do"..."we have to always be thinking at every moment...are you the one who is going to make my life hell?"How scary is this folks???These are the obs of the future...This woman has this level of fear ingrained into her already..I couldn't believe what I was hearingI was almost lost for words...beleive it or not!Ahhh I said..."that's where midwives have it all over doctorsour basic premise is trustfor if we can't establish our professional relationships on thatlike you guys are discovering...when it all comes tumbling downyou have nothing else"Trust and communication.two important factors in not getting sued I'd reckon..but hey who am Ionly a "nuf nuff" in her eyes...Cheers Tina P.
RE: [ozmidwifery] what doctors learn at med school!
Ladies if it is any consolation from the point of view of a consumer and a fellow acaedemic. 1. You are right if we trust each other and you respect my wishes whilst making sure I fully understand the implications of what I am asking (demanding in some cases) then I am less likely to sue. A relationship built on trust and understanding will help me to relax which means my outcomes are more likely to be better anyway as I won't be 'fighting' you or be 'frightened' of you during labour. 2. From an acaedemic point of view. No doubt you are taught the basics of anatomy and physiology as part of the course but I would rather a professional who does a course that specifically concentrates on my area of need than a generalist who had done a few extra units post grad - best of all I would prefer it if this study was incorporated with an appreticiship type of learning as a book can never show you what the real thing can. If I can do a Bachelor of Commerce with a major in Accounting (as opposed to Banking or Auditing etc etc) why can't you do a Bachelor of Science or Nursing with a major in Midwifery (rather than general nursing or some other major) - sounds logical to me and it means that initally at least until the experience factor takes over a few years down the track that you will start out as a better midwife. Just as I will be a better accountant for my major studies than I would have been if I had just done general commerce st! ! udies with no major. Besides which midwives never used to do nursing training first in the old days and midwifery is more than just nursing. Midwives are practitioners, nurses serve this role only in extremely rare circumstances. Or if we take the opposite view if midwives should do nursing first as an introduction then maybe doctors should too!! Debby From: "Vicki Chan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] what doctors learn at med school! Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 22:54:39 +1000 Hey Tina nuff nuff...nah, dont believe that you were lost for words for a minute!!! You still sure managed to say quite a bit!! One thing I'd really like to do is present my (our...Nic and Vic) stuff to the med students/medicos/obstetricians... Vicki -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 9:17 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] what doctors learn at med school! Hi again all, had an interesting afternoon today at a BBQ with some old work mates...One friend who I worked at CSIRO with eons ago (past life stuff) like me had a radical change in occupation and went to do nursing...she finished her nursing about 8 years agoanyhowshe brought a friend to the BBQ ...a "work colleague" I just assumed this woman was a nurse too...anyhow got chatting as you do...my friend announced to her "work colleague" that I was doing midwifery.So your a nurse too she asked...No...I'm not a nurse doing the new Bachelor of Midwiferybla bla"Direct entry" my friend announcesone of THOSE midwives who think they are not part of the nursing profession. ...Well that went down REAL well...she always did know how to get my hackles up...thought I had educated her better than that...but can see she has been educated by others than just I...:-(( No not "direct entry" I replied...we don't do direct entry nursingor direct entry medicine...or direct law or accounting...bla bla bla..Anyhow ...finally this "work colleague" couldn't resist and announced that she was a MO...doing her internshipand wanted to know more about "the likes of you" doing midwifery without nursing first"do you do any physiology???" bla bla bla I guess you can imagine the conversation from there... The conversion progressed quickly back to medicine...I wanted to pick her brains about being a beginning practitioner and her thoughts on the health care system...What struck me immediately was her sheer arrogance and lack of understanding of peopleamazingAccording to her the general public are all "fu-k--- nuff nuffs""parents have no parenting skills".."the public all just want to sue us". She was just fascinated to think that I would even consider private practice as a midwife..."too scary - you must be fu--ing mad!!" and "noone from uni is even considering obs and gynae as its just too risky". This woman is 25 years old and already educated with the 'fear factor'. She stated openly that as doctors they are taught at med school that a "trusting relationship with your patients" is non existent as the patient only looks to the doctor fix up their problems and will sue if they don't..and the doctor looks at the patient thinking all you want is to sue meI was totally blown away by this...oh yeh she says..."its the underlying premise in all
Re: [ozmidwifery] another horror story: closure is a myth
Hello all, I'm just thinking,with the abundance of 'horror stories' ie violent births, is there a possibility of a 'class action' against medicalized childbirth and maternity services through the Commonwealth Ombudsman. Would this force change?? any comments? any lawyers? any advice? love lizmc Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] another horror story: closure is a myth Ann, I think you are right - I think that after a "birth rape" experience a woman does not find closure at all. I think that if she is as lucky as i have been and finds wonderful people like all of you to both vent to and to shed some understanding of the situation and hope of it not recurring, then she may find acceptance of what has happened and find a way to live with it as an unfortunate thing that happened. I don't think that anyone can really find closure to something so traumatic which has no closure - closure to meinsinuates an understanding of the reason why and acceptance of it. I don't think there can ever be true closure because there is no real reason "Why?" there is no answer. I found closure after the traumatic yet acceptable birth of my daughter, I got sick with Pre eclampsia - there was a reason. With my son there was NO reason for the stupidity and cruelty of them and therefore there can never be true closure. Hope that makes sence as I know for many midwives who have been unable to protect women from these things that their inner torment has no closure - there is just an acceptance of the things we cannot change and a strength to change the events of the future to prevent a recurance. Regards Rhonda. ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, November 09, 2002 22:17:05 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] another horror story: closure is a myth Dear list,On a film/documentary on rape a counsellor made thefollowing statement,"Closure is a myth, a woman afterbeing raped is never the same."She then quoted a casewhere a woman never slept more than 2-3 hours,worerunners to bed( she thought that if she had beingwearing runners she could have escaped) and hermarriage broke up.I thought after a horrible birth awoman is never the same.I know I am not the same womanbefore I had Edwina almost 4 years ago.I changedinsurance co. so a homebirth would be covered and soonafter having Samuel we changed to just basic cover asI no longer trusted private hospitals( Edwina was bornin a private hospital).I also started settingboundaries with people and with the time and moneysaved started a small investment portfolio.This hasgrown over time to possibly giving us in the next 1-2years a basic income.Is this better than before?Quitehonestly I don't know but it is 'different' to where Iwas 4 years ago.Ann --- Andrea Bilcliff[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: MessageYesterday Iheard about a woman who birthed recently. She arrived at hospital already 5cm dilated after just having a 'show' at home. She was pressured into having an ARM to 'get things moving along' (?!?!). This was her first baby and he was born with the aid of forceps (after a failed vacuum extraction) just four hours later for failure to progress! There was no fetal distress prior to the birth but her baby needed resuscitation and went 'battered bruised' to the nursery. She was told that if her baby had gone to term (he was 10 days 'early') he would have died because the cord was around his neck! The woman developed an infection and is having breastfeeding problems. Needless to say she wants a homebirth if there is a next time. Vicki's right...it is tragic : ( Andrea B - Original Message - From: Vicki Chan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 12:37 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] another horror story A woman I spoke to yesterday spoke of her starstruck obstetrician being overly excited about the celeb status of her husband...her labour was rocking along beautifully but it didnt look like hubby would make it for the birth...the ob arranged for her to have an epidural which rendered her incapacitated when her husband finally made it... no problem! that's why God invented Vacuum Extractors!! Her first babe she'd managed to birth unaided. Tragic! We could (and will, no doubt) go on!
[ozmidwifery] Gold Coast Midwife
Dear Ozmidders, My name is Tory Howell and I am a first year midwifery student in Adelaide. I am writing to ask if their are any midwives in the Gold Coast region that could help my sister-in-law. She is due on the 11th of January but has been told to have a c-section. I saw her not long ago and asked her why this was recommended. She couldn't quite give me a clear answer so I thought I would ask you all what you thought! She has quite prominent varicose veins on her inner left thigh which give her quite a bit of discomfort. She also has a swelling in her left groin almost in the labia region. (No varicose veins visible in this spot). She has been given stockings etc... to try and make here more comfortable and a obstetrician actually said that she could try a vaginal birth but a hospital based midwife told her to go for the c-section option. She is quite distressed and confused when I saw her as she just wants to do the safest thing for her baby and I felt she was leaning towards the c-section option but there is no way her husband will be able to take much time off while she will be recovering. I would really like her to see a more open minded midwife for some clear discussions of her options, so if there is anyone out there who can help, it would be greatly appreciated. I am going to try to be with her for the birth and stay as long as I can to provide some support. Kind regards, Tory XXOO
[ozmidwifery] education
Listers, "obstetrician actually said that she could try a vaginal birth but a hospital based midwife told her to go for the c-section option" There is continuing peril in our midst. What an opportunity for education!! Roll on Vicki and Nic! love lizmc
Re: [ozmidwifery] obs and gobs
Title: Message !! love lizmc - Original Message - From: Vicki Chan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 12:42 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] obs and gobs this fine bit of teaching I just came across from the uni of melb obs and gobs... should set our little hearts at rest... Primigravida Labour often begins slowly (the latent phase). False alarms or spurious labour are common. The duration of labour averages 14 h, augmentation with oxytocin is often indicated, epidural analgesia frequently requested. The 2nd stage is often particularly slow due to the poor compliance of vagina and pelvic floor. Instrumental vaginal delivery is not uncommonly needed. dont tell me they aint got faith!!! or what about this one... Natural Course of Obstructed Labour Primigravida The uterus responds to slow progress with a reduction in the intensity and frequency of contractions thereby further exacerbating the lack of progress. The natural course of neglected obstructed labour is to contract on and off for several days. The presenting part becomes impacted in the pelvic brim, the intervening tissues undergo pressure necrosis, infection develops, the fetus dies and with the skull bones collapsed, the fetus is able to deliver vaginally. An obstetric fistula is the long-term result. please, bring me the forceps this very minute!! Vicki http://www.obsgyn.unimelb.edu.au/Teaching/MHW%20Protocols/Obstetrics/Intra-Partum%20Care.htm
Re: [ozmidwifery] Private health midwives
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] Private health midwives Jan, I may have been a little confusing. I was referring to Midwives working in Private Hospitals, not in Private practise. I am looking for any references to any papers written about them. So far it's a blank slate. Robin - Original Message - From: Jan Robinson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 8:45 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Private health midwives On 8/11/02 9:25 PM, "Robin Moon" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know of any references pertaining to Midwives working in the Private system, specifically in Australia? Cinahl is coming up blank for me.thanks,RobinHi RobinWhat type of references do you want?The Australian Society of Independent Midwives (ASIM) has a Members Directory giving details of all members in private practice across Australia. Contact me is you want a copy.Jan__Jan Robinson Phone/fax: 011+ 61+ 2+ 9546 4350Independent Midwife Practitioner e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]8 Robin Crescent www: midwiferyeducation.com.auSouth Hurstville NSW 2221 National Coordinator, ASIM__
[ozmidwifery] Obs, brainwashing, hypnobirthing and horror stories - long
hello all, I'm writing this in a rush, busy marking third year students assignments - so forgive me if it is a bit...errambly - but all this is too interesting and important for me not to comment. I really appreciate the stories and am constantly amazed at our human capacity to function and function remarkably well despite the supremely difficult experiences... and the stories of triumph and joy...how encouraging they are to hear/read and how inspiring you ALL are There are so many rich topics of conversation here, deep and important matters to consider and a building impetus to develop effective strategies to manage and change the contemporary paradigm of fear and distrust. The conversation of the last while has shown, in my mind, the clear and startling difference between the medical model of (ill)health - based on disease, decay, fear and distrust and the social, midwifery model, based on health, love, growth, wonder, faith and trust. Vicki and Nic are certainly developing effective strategies, with their beautiful films and stunning workshops in a wonderful,deeply moving, positive way. And yes, Vicki, it is important to get your work in people's faces and speak to their hearts, not merely their intellect. The National Maternity Action Plan is another. Each of us - continuously presenting it to pollies, media, obs, health services, people in the street, anyone who will listen - or not, still present the idea - it takes six or seven presentations of an idea/product for it to take hold in someone's brain - ask any advertising person - unless the idea/product has a huge emotional code -which is why fear is s powerful as a memory fixative. Our culture is continuously subjected to hypnosis/brainwashing about birthing of the unsavoury kind, the kind steeped in fear and distrust, as evidenced by the obs educational material quoted by Vicki; the comment by the midwife to Toni's sister in law; the RMO that Justine met etc...We are continuously being moulded, shaped by forces and information that appear to be designed to steer us towards self doubt and fear - unless people see what they are doing, they continue to do what they always did - it then becomes 'normal', that is how unconscious processes work. It is the human that is the only animal that is capable of reflection and modifying behaviour accordingly, but most of us seek to justify what we did, rather than looking objectively and considering all possibilities and chosing a better path next time. Self doubt and fear are powerful memory fixatives and behaviour modifiers. That is why advertising works so well. They understand the way the human brain works. Advertisers want reaction, they don't care if it is positive or negative, it is emotion that codes learning and drives behaviour - apathy is the problem for advertisers, there is no behaviour change when people are apathetic - which is why each of us has to be so positively energetic around this stuff - and take time out for self nuturing and self development - like the natural seasons and the growth cycle, otherwise we get 'burnt out'. The climate of fear around birthing is mostly unconsciously driven and perpetuated - the climate of fear is feeding itself in medicine (as you can clearly see by both Vicki's and Justine's stories). It is however true that most medicos want the best for the people they care for and believe they are doing the best thing. Unfortunately they are being pulled by deeply embedded, unconscious strings of fear and don't realise it. The use of Hypnobirthing is one excellent way of defusing/minimising and redressing the unconcious fears and redirecting the energetic force towards positive outcomes. It enables us to harness our energetic power for ideal, desired outcomes, instead of diving head long into the pit of unpleasant realities made by our unconscious fears. Those of us who can see the truth, that fear is becoming the moving force of western world birthing must develop and hold on to the vision of conscious women centered care - recognising that each interaction with birthing women and our disease fixated medically oriented colleagues must contain the seeds of faith and trust; must be therapeutically oriented towards best outcomes - ie intact, healthy mothers and children; asking the questions that liberate, demonstrating the wonder and incredible wisdom of our bodies/spirits (thanks Vicki and Nic!) We have become so socialised into a polluted plastic, fear based world, we have, as a culture, lost our connection to our own pristine wilderness and our deep DNA coded wisdom. Time to step out of the brainwashing (them and us; litigation; powerlessness; terrorism; perfection is a right - root out anything that isn't) and bring back the wild women (and men) :-) My guess is the arts is the way to do it - speaks to us/grabs us/shows us on many levels - go Aviva, Vicki and Nic need more songs, dances, plays, theatre, film, satire, sculpture, paintings
[ozmidwifery] Love of Midwifery
Title: Love of Midwifery Dear list, This is Fiona. I just want to let everyone know how thoughtful and appreciative your replys were. I will go on and l will keep fighting. You are all my inspiration to continue to provide the best possible care to women and their families. In Mildura, we have started putting on info nights through our ACMI sub branch called Women talking to Women' Our attendance at these groups have not been great and l am sure that some of these women have been told not to listen to us from their OB's. I went to each clinic of theirs to put up flyers and l have found out that they did not even put them up! I am sure they just chucked them in the bin. Oh well, we dont need them anyway. I will go on and l am going to make damn sure that l do everything possible to make all aspects of care safe and enjoyable for the women l come across (and also support my fellow midwives). Also had a look at the patients bill of rights. My god, there never followed are they!!! I also work as a maternal and child health nurse in the community. Does anyone know any approaches l can use from this angle? Also if you were to have your own little private antenatal / midwifery advice clinic, how could you do this without insurance? Again thankyou. I am very proud to be a midwife and when l have my children there is no way l am birthing in a hospital. If it so happens, drs will only come near me if it was a life or death situation!!! I already have my birth planned for when ever it happens. Have to get pregnant first l guess (LOL). Fiona. NOTICE: CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION This e-mail message and any accompanying files may contain information that is confidential and subject to privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, and have received the e-mail in error, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, forwarding, printing or copying of the message and any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail message in error please immediately advise the sender by return e-mail, or telephone, listed below. You must destroy the original transmission and its contents. Any views expressed within this communication are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Ramsay Health Care. This communication should not be copied or disseminated without permission. "Mildura Base Hospital" a member of Ramsay Health Care Telephone: 61 3 5022 Facsimile: 61 3 5022 3234
Re: [ozmidwifery] Gold Coast Midwife
Howdy Tori!!! just wanted to say hi...it was great to meet you in Adelaide... cheers Tina P.
Re: [ozmidwifery] indoctrination
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] indoctrination Exactly what I thought Liz, you beauty, the rquired workforce of Obs for the 10% who need them now we need to get all those midwives back who walked away... and those beautiful Bmidders!!! Justine Tina, sheer arrogance and lack of understanding of peopleamazingAccording to her the general public are all fu-k--- nuff nuffsparents have no parenting skills..the public all just want to sue us. She was just fascinated to think that I would even consider private practice as a midwife...too scary - you must be fu--ing mad!! and no one from uni is even considering obs and gynae as its just too risky. Thats what we have to fight - absolute indoctrination as well as insufferable arrogance. However, the last statement you wrote is truly joyful...no -one is even considering obs and gynae - lucky for the women and midwives of the future eh?? And when help is needed Michel Odent types will abound. ie. midwife/surgeons love Liz
Re: [ozmidwifery] Haemoglobin and ferritin levels
Dear Lois So precise and concise A great revision for us all thank you Denise - Original Message - From: Lois Wattis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 3:06 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Haemoglobin and ferritin levels Haemoglobin is a pigment contained in the red blood cells which enables them to transport oxygen round the circulation. It is a compound of the ferrous-iron containing pigment haem combined with the protein globin. Each haemoglobin molecule contains 4 atoms of ferrous iron, 1 in each haem group, and can unite with 4 molecules of oxygen. Anaemia is a reduction in the number of red blood cells, or in the amount of haemoglobin present in them. Iron deficiency anaemia is the most common type of anaemia, probably related to poor nutrition, and is aggravated in early pregnancy due to the physiological haemodilution which occurs. The haemoglobin level (generally) used to indicate the presence of anaemia is 11.0 g/dl, considered the lower limit of the normal range (WHO, 1972) If the Hb level is below 9.0 g/dl further investigtions such as folate levels and serum ferritin may be necessary. Ferritin is the iron-apoferritin complex; one of the forms in which iron is stored in the body. Ferritin is the body's major iron-storage protein, ensuring that iron is readily available when demand is high, and is found in the liver, marrow and spleen. Serum ferritin falls in proportion to a decrease in iron store and is a more reliable test of iron status than haemoglobin level. Normal ferritin levels are 10-200 ug/l. Women who have low serum ferratin may need supplementation. The benefit of iron supplementation is now questioned and some studies show that the routine administration of iron may be superfluous or even harmful. Levels of haemoglobin traditionally regarded as pathological in the non pregant woman are in fact associated with good obstetric outcomes. The increase in plasma volume is essential to ensure perfusion of the vascular bed and maintenance of blood pressure and it is suggested that an increase in Hb may result in a decrease of blood flow through tissues. Routine iron supplementation in the absence of clinical indications is unnecessary The aim of iron supplementation in normal pregant women is not to elevate their Hb but to refill their iron stores. A low serum ferritin value is indicative of depleted iron stores and the need for iron supplementation. WHO considers anaemia to be present in pregnant women at 11 g/dl or less. More arbitrary levels may be decided locally and usually range between 10 and 10.5 g/dl. (Sweet, 1997, p549) Refer to pages 548-553 of Mayes Midwifery for detailed info. Sources: Mayes Midwifery 12th Edition (B. Sweet); Baillieres Midwives' Dictionary 9th Edition. Addit: Large studies indicate haemoglobin concentrations of 9 to 9.5g/dl are associated with optimal perinatal outcomes (as they reflect good plasma volume expansion) Odent, 1998, The Practising Midwife, Vol.1, Number 9. Sue, on the basis of this information, levels of 10 or above for either Hb or Ferritin do not necessarily warrant supplementation. The clinical condition of the woman also needs to be taken into account - is she tired, lethargic, dark circles under the eyes, pale inner eyelids? Breathlessness, especially on exertion, dizzy or faint? No silent bleeding occurring - eg haemorrhoids? How is her diet? Meat-eater or not? Leafy green veges? A holistic clinical assessment should accompany diagnostic tests. Regarding supplementation suggestions - Many midwives I encounter recommend Flurodix liquid which is a combination of iron, B C vitamins and herbs, minerals etc. which seems to work well for women low on iron, or manifesting any of the above symptoms. Taking zinc as well reduces the metallic after taste which some people complain about from Flurodix. Ferrum phos 6c (cell salts) helps with assimilation of dietary iron. Hope this is helpful. Best wishes, Lois Wattis - Original Message - From: Sue Cookson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 7:02 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Haemoglobin and ferritin levels Hi, Needing some help to clarify the difference between haemoglobin levels and ferritin levels. Have a local GP who switches between the two readings depending on which one is lowest and suggests/insists on iron injections. Levels I've had quoted from some of the women are: Hb 107 Ferritin 14 another: Hb 109 Ferritin 13 These two women are both 32 weeks. Just needing clarification and some evidence about the relevance of both/either readings. Hb levels seem fine to me - a bit foxed by the ferritin level - one woman had dropped from 120 early pregnancy to 14 now... Look forward to your fine input, Sue -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to
Re: [ozmidwifery] another horror story: closure is a myth
But who exactly would the "class action" be against? Nobody wants to take responsibility and what you would find is that the gaverning bodies would pass it onto individual doctors and then they would have the age old catch cry "No proof" or "But the outcome was not negative" so there is no case. Trauma and stress do not seem to count as negative when it comes to the outcome so long as they don't kill mother or baby. A wonderful and interesting thought if we could get someone to be responsible. regards Rhonda. ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sunday, November 10, 2002 09:13:02 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] another horror story: closure is a myth Hello all, I'm just thinking,with the abundance of 'horror stories' ie violent births, is there a possibility of a 'class action' against medicalized childbirth and maternity services through the Commonwealth Ombudsman. Would this force change?? any comments? any lawyers? any advice? love lizmc Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] another horror story: closure is a myth Ann, I think you are right - I think that after a "birth rape" experience a woman does not find closure at all. I think that if she is as lucky as i have been and finds wonderful people like all of you to both vent to and to shed some understanding of the situation and hope of it not recurring, then she may find acceptance of what has happened and find a way to live with it as an unfortunate thing that happened. I don't think that anyone can really find closure to something so traumatic which has no closure - closure to meinsinuates an understanding of the reason why and acceptance of it. I don't think there can ever be true closure because there is no real reason "Why?" there is no answer. I found closure after the traumatic yet acceptable birth of my daughter, I got sick with Pre eclampsia - there was a reason. With my son there was NO reason for the stupidity and cruelty of them and therefore there can never be true closure. Hope that makes sence as I know for many midwives who have been unable to protect women from these things that their inner torment has no closure - there is just an acceptance of the things we cannot change and a strength to change the events of the future to prevent a recurance. Regards Rhonda. ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, November 09, 2002 22:17:05 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] another horror story: closure is a myth Dear list,On a film/documentary on rape a counsellor made thefollowing statement,"Closure is a myth, a woman afterbeing raped is never the same."She then quoted a casewhere a woman never slept more than 2-3 hours,worerunners to bed( she thought that if she had beingwearing runners she could have escaped) and hermarriage broke up.I thought after a horrible birth awoman is never the same.I know I am not the same womanbefore I had Edwina almost 4 years ago.I changedinsurance co. so a homebirth would be covered and soonafter having Samuel we changed to just basic cover asI no longer trusted private hospitals( Edwina was bornin a private hospital).I also started settingboundaries with people and with the time and moneysaved started a small investment portfolio.This hasgrown over time to possibly giving us in the next 1-2years a basic income.Is this better than before?Quitehonestly I don't know but it is 'different' to where Iwas 4 years ago.Ann --- Andrea Bilcliff[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: MessageYesterday Iheard about a woman who birthed recently. She arrived at hospital already 5cm dilated after just having a 'show' at home. She was pressured into having an ARM to 'get things moving along' (?!?!). This was her
RE: Spam Alert: RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC
It is very difficult to maintain your stance in the face of 'studies' and 'research' and 'hospital policy' and 'midwives' agreeing with the quack. Unless you are very strong, and have very supportive support people and a sympathici midwife, don't present to hospital until bub's head is out. It is very frustrating to give the info, support and advocate for the woman, only to have the dr say a few words, and mum back down. Maureen -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery;acegraphics.com.au]On Behalf Of Vicki Chan Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 12:38 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Spam Alert: RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC The decision always rests with the mother!! And more power to the midwife who is willing to put all on the line to give the woman the information, support, and love she deserves. Vicki -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery;acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Jenny Balnaves Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 11:15 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC Thank you for your reply Lynne. Unfortunately, the model of care where I practice is 95% medical, so consequently, options are rather limited. All obstetricians here would veto the choice of VBAC...litigation being foremost in their minds. One GP incorporates Team Midwifery into his practice, but even there we are still under his banner so to speak. A midwifery model of care has been bandied about for many years here. This has been met with great resistance from the obstetricians who view the model as being one where they get to clean up the mess as one so delicatly put it.(We should wish!) This particular woman has been advised that the only option was caesarian section. She has seen her obstetrician privately throughout her pregnancy and as a consequence, our only 'access' to her is when she was admitted as I said at 36 weeks gestation, although the cry...Its never too late could be used in this instance. She is certainly aware of her options though, being advised by the midwives who have met her since her admission. Unfortunately, because she would have to change hospitals (none of the other obstetricians would take on her care at this stage, in support of the other obstetrician), it is all too much of a bother to have to address the issues of booking else where etc etc apparently, and woe betide the midwife who is found culpable of directing this woman to an alternative hospital, let alone another doctor! Hope this is not too long winded. Regards, brbrbrhtmlDIVFONT color=#cc face=Lucida Handwriting, Cursive size=5Jenny IMG height=12 src=http://graphics.hotmail.com/emrose.gif; width=12/FONT/DIV/html From: Lynne Staff [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 10:03:48 +1000 Hi Jenny - How does this woman feel about the decision to have another caesarean? Does she know that she is entitled to a second (and third...) opinion? Or will she be jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire with the other opinions she seeks (if all of the obs are like-minded)? And not just obs either. I remember many years ago at a homebirth meeting, a woman approached me who had had three caesareans and asked me whether I thought she could labour and give birth vaginally, and I said No, it is unlikely. In my ignorance and naievety, and working within a system where no woman was encouraged, nor mostly allowed to have a trial of scar (ugh...), I did not know, nor had the experience to support a woman through this experience. I had therefore never seen what women could do, except for those who were dripped and monitored continually and told if they hadn't dilated x centimeters by x time they would 'need' a caesarean. Talk about setting them up for one! Anyway, years have gone by when I have been able to be with women choosing this option and yes, it was at home. I got to know women who had done amazing things to get their babies born, and I remember telling ab ob I know about these experiences, and others I had heard about. He asked me why he had never heard of women achieving these incredible births after one and more caesareans. I can remember just looking at him, and asking back Would you or colleagues of yours have listened to them had they requested support for this? He could not answer me. I was at two amazing births a fortnight ago where the woman had had previous caesareans - I am fortunate enough to work in a hospital now with people who support the concept of vaginal birth following caesarean, and our stats are exceptional. But what is far more important than stats is how the woman planning to give birth vaginally feels about it, whether she gives birth vaginally or by caesarean (or as a friend of mine and I hear from above, or from below - WHAT mesages does that give!!!). She is the 'liver' of the experience - the giver of birth, and what she feels as she moves
RE: [ozmidwifery] another horror story
Title: Message Why in the hell did she lie still for that? It is impossible to insert an epidural into an un-cooperative person. she must have agreed and co-operated. Maureen. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Vicki ChanSent: Friday, November 08, 2002 12:38 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] another horror story A woman I spoke to yesterday spoke of her starstruck obstetrician being overly excited about the celeb status of her husband...her labour was rocking along beautifully but it didnt look like hubby would make it for the birth...the ob arranged for her to have an epidural which rendered her incapacitated when her husband finally made it... no problem! that's why God invented Vacuum Extractors!! Her first babe she'd managed to birth unaided. Tragic! We could (and will, no doubt) go on! -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Aviva Sheb'aSent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 11:50 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Interesting fact Whew, Rhonda. I heard this morning from a friend about a friend of hers, aged 19, whose baby was 10 days late; ob insisted on inducing with gel, nothing much happening, into hosp., more drugs, foetal monitoring, on her back, strapped down to bed, more drugs, epidural, more of same, enormous episiotomy, cut artery, blood gushing in spurts, vacuum to head, two big men hauling as though it was a tug-of-war, massive lump on baby's head accompanied by ring of scars, she's stitched up, off her face, baby won't wake up, won't feed, she's being pumped every six hours for milk which they're somehow force feeding to baby. but hey, at least she's ok and the baby's ok, they tell her, and she repeats as she recovers from her torture. Yes, it's happening under our noses. In Adelaide, November, 2002. ...and I'm screaming inside for women and children...who are our future. Aviva - Original Message - From: Rhonda To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 1:05 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Interesting fact Well Megan, I guess the only way to really understand is this.. I can honestly and acceptingly say (as I cannot change what has happened and I have dealt with it in my own way) IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
RE: [ozmidwifery] Julia's birth
Me again. No , no c/s. Just let your body take it's time. If you feel it's all going too quick, the knee-chest position is good, takes the pressure off the peri and allows for stretching. My advice for next time is don't push, breathe the bubby out, have a home-birth or go to a liberal birth centre. I am surprised that with a BP like that they actually encouraged you to push, and why did they need a doctor to tell them you were ready? I believe time will tell, the mother tends to know and you can usually tell from the noise and behaviour. In my opinion the reason you tore so badly is because they made you push. We really need to trust women's bodies. Maureen. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Isis and Andrew CapleSent: Friday, November 08, 2002 8:58 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] Julia's birth After following the discussions about interventions, prostin and in some cases ob's putting the fear of danger into mother's minds, I wanted to share Julia's birth with you all. After she was born, it was then that I decided to become a midwife. I wanted to become a voice in the birthing woman's ear telling her to trust herself, that she was doing fine and to guide/support her in the special journey that is pregnancy/childbirth... Julia was due to be bornaround 18th October 2001.I was originally booked into the Geelong Hospital Birthing Centre, but I stupidly mentioned a cyst that I had in my head and like a hot-cake, I was shifted to the ante-natal clinic. I kept telling them that it was just a lump of flesh and a that neurologist had given me the all clear, but the doctors just nodded and gave the good old- 'Just in case...' At about 30 weeks, my blood pressure shot through the roof. No other symptoms, just a bp of about 150/105. Eventually at 38 weeks, the doctors decided that I should havemy babe induced. The medicationsweren't reducingmy BP.The date of the inducement was Monday 8th October 2001. I remember the OB who booked the induction, telling me that because I was being induced, I would most likely need to be put on a drip then given an epidural all in order to bring down my blood pressure. Being a first time mother, with no female support in this state, I nodded and accepted it. I had done my research, I knew what all these interventions were, but because it was my body that wasn't coping, I didn't bother questioning. At 8amon the big day, Andrew and I went to the hospital for the first (as it turns out- only) application of the prostaglandin gel (or should Isay- pig jism..LOL)at 8.30am. I was at the hospital for about 2 hours while they externally monitored Julias heart rate and my blood pressure.They told me to go home and get into bed and to return at about 4.30pm. So we left the hospital, and got home at about 11.30am. I jumped into bed to read at about midday, feeling slight period pain. The slight period pain felt stronger and stronger, till at 1pm I decided to get up and have a walk and a cup of tea. Just as I thought about doing this, I heard a pop, but thought it was from outside. I rolled out of bed and stood up, feeling 2 runs of water, that was definitely not me weeing myself. I then realised as well that my period pains were quite regular and painful. They were 4 minutes apart and definitely enough to make me take notice. We called the hospital and were told to come in, but not to rush it. I had a piece of toast and a cup of tea, by then the contractions were 3 minutes apart. On the way to the hospital I was really uncomfortable. The contractions were 2 minutes apart and quite painful by the time we got to the hospital at about 2pm. They monitored Julia, she was fine and my blood pressure was stable. They moved me into the birthing room at about 3pm and I immediately went into the shower, on the roller ball thingy. They dida VE and I was 3 cm dilated at 3.30pm. The next hour went like a blur. I remember asking for pethidine, being told to wait and that I was doing really well just breathing and rocking through the contractions. I remember I looked at one of the mid-wives and asked for some gas. I was on the verge of freaking out with the pain (Andrew has told me that I actually screamed) She had me lie over a bean bag with pillows heaped on top of it and showed me how to use the gas. I had the choice of the mouthpiece, or the mask. I chose the mask. I remember she told me to make the machine rattle . I made it almost explode J I could feel each contraction coming, getting harder and lasting longer.When the contraction started, I started sucking gas and rocking around.The gas removed my sense of time, but left me aware of thecontractions. I could hear people talking and I could
RE: [ozmidwifery] Noah'sArk
Thankyou. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery;acegraphics.com.au]On Behalf Of Denise Hynd Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 9:22 PM To: Rene Kemp; Rebecca Glover; Ken B; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Jacquie; Eddy, Helen; di lucas; Diane Brennan; ANNE FLINT Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] Noah'sArk Noah's Ark Everything I need to know, I learned from Noah's Ark... ONE: Don't miss the boat. TWO: Remember that we are all in the same boat. THREE: Plan ahead. It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark. FOUR: Stay fit. When you're 60 years old, someone may ask you to do something really big. FIVE: Don't listen to critics; just get on with the job that needs to be done. SIX: Build your future on high ground. SEVEN: For safety's sake, travel in pairs. EIGHT: Speed isn't always an advantage. The snails were on board with the cheetahs. NINE: When you're stressed, float awhile. TEN: Remember, the Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals. ELEVEN: No matter the storm, when you are with God, there's always a rainbow waiting. My instructions were to send this to people that I wanted God to bless and I picked you. Please pass this to people you want to be blessed. ** removed attachment IMAGE/JPEG (002501c2842c$a2a2c940$[EMAIL PROTECTED]) -- Sent from my PocketMail Handheld http://www.pocketmail.com _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Julia's birth
Maureen'sadvice on pushing certainly rings true with me. With my last delivery I arrived and was assessed as 7cm, the very next contraction I got the pushing urge. My midwife did not insist on checking to make sure I was 10cm she justtold me to go with it. There was no "push push" coaching just "push when you feel you have to" which for me was both during and between contractions, unlike my first vaginal delivery where it was only during contractions. Everything must have been right though as my daughter was born 10mins later and that included the time it took for the midwife to manipulate her shoulder out due to some shoulder dystocia. Debby From: "Ken Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Julia's birth Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 12:33:34 +1100 Me again. No , no c/s. Just let your body take it's time. If you feel it's all going too quick, the knee-chest position is good, takes the pressure off the peri and allows for stretching. My advice for next time is don't push, breathe the bubby out, have a home-birth or go to a liberal birth centre. I am surprised that with a BP like that they actually encouraged you to push, and why did they need a doctor to tell them you were ready? I believe time will tell, the mother tends to know and you can usually tell from the noise and behaviour. In my opinion the reason you tore so badly is because they made you push. We really need to trust women's bodies. Maureen. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Isis and Andrew Caple Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 8:58 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] Julia's birth After following the discussions about interventions, prostin and in some cases ob's putting the fear of danger into mother's minds, I wanted to share Julia's birth with you all. After she was born, it was then that I decided to become a midwife. I wanted to become a voice in the birthing woman's ear telling her to trust herself, that she was doing fine and to guide/support her in the special journey that is pregnancy/childbirth... Julia was due to be born around 18th October 2001. I was originally booked into the Geelong Hospital Birthing Centre, but I stupidly mentioned a cyst that I had in my head and like a hot-cake, I was shifted to the ante-natal clinic. I kept telling them that it was just a lump of flesh and a that neurologist had given me the all clear, but the doctors just nodded and gave the good old- 'Just in case...' At about 30 weeks, my blood pressure shot through the roof. No other symptoms, just a bp of about 150/105. Eventually at 38 weeks, the doctors decided that I should have my babe induced. The medications weren't reducing my BP. The date of the inducement was Monday 8th October 2001. I remember the OB who booked the induction, telling me that because I was being induced, I would most likely need to be put on a drip then given an epidural all in order to bring down my blood pressure. Being a first time mother, with no female support in this state, I nodded and accepted it. I had done my research, I knew what all these interventions were, but because it was my body that wasn't coping, I didn't bother questioning. At 8am on the big day, Andrew and I went to the hospital for the first (as it turns out- only) application of the prostaglandin gel (or should I say- pig jism..LOL) at 8.30am. I was at the hospital for about 2 hours while they externally monitored Julias heart rate and my blood pressure. They told me to go home and get into bed and to return at about 4.30pm. So we left the hospital, and got home at about 11.30am. I jumped into bed to read at about midday, feeling slight period pain. The slight period pain felt stronger and stronger, till at 1pm I decided to get up and have a walk and a cup of tea. Just as I thought about doing this, I heard a pop, but thought it was from outside. I rolled out of bed and stood up, feeling 2 runs of water, that was definitely not me weeing myself. I then realised as well that my period pains were quite regular and painful. They were 4 minutes apart and definitely enough to make me take notice. We called the hospital and were told to come in, but not to rush it. I had a piece of toast and a cup of tea, by then the contractions were 3 minutes apart. On the way to the hospital I was really uncomfortable. The contractions were 2 minutes apart and quite painful by the time we got to the hospital at about 2pm. They monitored Julia, she was fine and my blood pressure was stable. They moved me into the birthing room at about 3pm and I immediately went into the shower, on the roller ball thingy. They did a VE and I was 3 cm dilated at 3.30pm. The next hour went like a blur. I remember asking for pethidine, being told to wait and that I was doing really well just breathing and
RE: [ozmidwifery] another horror story
But - Oh the power play and the woman feels so unable to refuse these things. The Obstetric dominance can bend a woman into doing things that she woudl not otherswise do. I don't think we can judge her for that. regards Rhonda. ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sunday, November 10, 2002 13:05:39 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] another horror story Why in the hell did she lie still for that? It is impossible to insert an epidural into an un-cooperative person. she must have agreed and co-operated. Maureen. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Vicki ChanSent: Friday, November 08, 2002 12:38 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] another horror story A woman I spoke to yesterday spoke of her starstruck obstetrician being overly excited about the celeb status of her husband...her labour was rocking along beautifully but it didnt look like hubby would make it for the birth...the ob arranged for her to have an epidural which rendered her incapacitated when her husband finally made it... no problem! that's why God invented Vacuum Extractors!! Her first babe she'd managed to birth unaided. Tragic! We could (and will, no doubt) go on! -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Aviva Sheb'aSent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 11:50 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Interesting fact Whew, Rhonda. I heard this morning from a friend about a friend of hers, aged 19, whose baby was 10 days late; ob insisted on inducing with gel, nothing much happening, into hosp., more drugs, foetal monitoring, on her back, strapped down to bed, more drugs, epidural, more of same, enormous episiotomy, cut artery, blood gushing in spurts, vacuum to head, two big men hauling as though it was a tug-of-war, massive lump on baby's head accompanied by ring of scars, she's stitched up, off her face, baby won't wake up, won't feed, she's being pumped every six hours for milk which they're somehow force feeding to baby. but hey, at least she's ok and the baby's ok, they tell her, and she repeats as she recovers from her torture. Yes, it's happening under our noses. In Adelaide, November, 2002. ...and I'm screaming inside for women and children...who are our future. Aviva - Original Message - From: Rhonda To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 1:05 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Interesting fact Well Megan, I guess the only way to really understand is this.. I can honestly and acceptingly say (as I cannot change what has happened and I have dealt with it in my own way) IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
Re: [ozmidwifery] Obs, brainwashing, hypnobirthing and horrorstories - long
Carolyn, Where what do you teach? Kind regards, Jen BMid student, Victoria University - Original Message - From: Heartlogic [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, November 9, 2002 4:02 pm Subject: [ozmidwifery] Obs, brainwashing, hypnobirthing and horror stories - long hello all, I'm writing this in a rush, busy marking third year studentsassignments -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] another horror story: closure is a myth
How about maternity services?? Look at smokers with their class action against big tobacco - big tobacco was caught out because they lied; they manipulated nicotine levels in cigarettes. Maternity services and hospitals purport to provide safety and the best for women, which is a lie, Many studies and research papers have repeatedly shown medicalized childbirth to be harmful to those 80% of women and babies who can birth physiologically. There is total manipulation involved in maternity services, for both health professionals and women. Manipulation and lie. Would this not do? love lizmc But who exactly would the "class action" be against? Nobody wants to take responsibility and what you would find is that the gaverning bodies would pass it onto individual doctors and then they would have the age old catch cry "No proof" or "But the outcome was not negative" so there is no case. Trauma and stress do not seem to count as negative when it comes to the outcome so long as they don't kill mother or baby. A wonderful and interesting thought if we could get someone to be responsible. regards Rhonda. ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sunday, November 10, 2002 09:13:02 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] another horror story: closure is a myth Hello all, I'm just thinking,with the abundance of 'horror stories' ie violent births, is there a possibility of a 'class action' against medicalized childbirth and maternity services through the Commonwealth Ombudsman. Would this force change?? any comments? any lawyers? any advice? love lizmc Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] another horror story: closure is a myth Ann, I think you are right - I think that after a "birth rape" experience a woman does not find closure at all. I think that if she is as lucky as i have been and finds wonderful people like all of you to both vent to and to shed some understanding of the situation and hope of it not recurring, then she may find acceptance of what has happened and find a way to live with it as an unfortunate thing that happened. I don't think that anyone can really find closure to something so traumatic which has no closure - closure to meinsinuates an understanding of the reason why and acceptance of it. I don't think there can ever be true closure because there is no real reason "Why?" there is no answer. I found closure after the traumatic yet acceptable birth of my daughter, I got sick with Pre eclampsia - there was a reason. With my son there was NO reason for the stupidity and cruelty of them and therefore there can never be true closure. Hope that makes sence as I know for many midwives who have been unable to protect women from these things that their inner torment has no closure - there is just an acceptance of the things we cannot change and a strength to change the events of the future to prevent a recurance. Regards Rhonda. ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, November 09, 2002 22:17:05 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] another horror story: closure is a myth Dear list,On a film/documentary on rape a counsellor made thefollowing statement,"Closure is a myth, a woman afterbeing raped is never the same."She then quoted a casewhere a woman never slept more than 2-3 hours,worerunners to bed( she thought that if she had beingwearing runners she could have escaped) and hermarriage broke up.I thought after a horrible birth awoman is never the same.I know I am not the same womanbefore I had Edwina almost 4 years ago.I changedinsurance co. so a homebirth would be covered and soonafter having Samuel
RE: [ozmidwifery] Obs, brainwashing, hypnobirthing and horror stories - long
Hi Jen, The marking I was refering to is for 3rd year nursing students at Newcastle Uni. I was co-opted at the last minute as they (the uni) were desperate as someone had dropped out at the second to last minute from the casual teaching pool. I have been employed as a part time, academic mentor for this semester. It has been an amazing experience. It is astonishing how much work and effort the students have put into their assignments, the depth of research and the wonderful critical thinking skills they display with their topics - I'm in awe of them. We have some wonderful people coming through the nursing stream - I think the future is very bright indeed looking at the talent I'm working with and if the Bmid students are like these students... (and I know you are by the questions and comments I read here) the wave of change is happening .and will soon be tidal.which brings joy to my heart. And, I've actually just started as Midwifery Educator at John Hunter Hospital, Newcastle - another source of joy for me :-) It's good to be home. I worked at JHH when it first opened 12 years ago as an educator for midwifery. I've also been working privately as a midwife with homebirth. Private practice has to go now I'm full time employed person BUT the good thing with John Hunter and the fabulous midwifery leadership is that the staff are supported and encouraged to provide continuity of care for women with special needs - like those who have had bad experiences previously, so I'm signing up for that. Very exciting and very women centred ideology/philosophy being expressed. There is also a lot of interest in the NMAP, so Probably a longer answer than you wanted Jen :-) warmly, Carolyn Hastie -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery;acegraphics.com.au]On Behalf Of Jennifer Semple Sent: Sunday, 10 November 2002 1:16 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Obs, brainwashing, hypnobirthing and horror stories - long Carolyn, Where what do you teach? Kind regards, Jen BMid student, Victoria University - Original Message - From: Heartlogic [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, November 9, 2002 4:02 pm Subject: [ozmidwifery] Obs, brainwashing, hypnobirthing and horror stories - long hello all, I'm writing this in a rush, busy marking third year studentsassignments -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Fw: VERY, VERY URGENT: PI Insurance, NMAP the Greens
WE MUST HAVE SUPPORT FOR THE GREENS IN MELBOURNE ON WEDNESDAY 13TH NOVEMBER AT 11AM. Venue to be informed. Read on.. The issue of PI insurance is very complex. If the Labor govt is returned, it intends to change the various Acts to make insurance mandatory as a condition of registration. If Labour loses, its quite likely that Liberal will implement these changes anyway, as the health department is quite advanced in preparing the new policies. The Nurses Act, at the moment, states that Nurses Boards "may" refuse to register anyone who does not have adequate insurance. The time is coming when midwives will be pressured into submission, with the threat of unprofessional conduct and deregistration. THE GREENS HEALTH POLICY, WHICH IS HIGHLIGHTING NMAP, AND DEMANDING CHOICE FOR WOMEN, IS THE OPTION TO SHOW BOTH STATE AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENT THAT WOMEN ARE SERIOUS ABOUT WHAT IS DONE TO THEM IN BIRTHING.
RE: [ozmidwifery] another horror story
Rhonda said: "But - Oh the power play and the woman feels so unable to refuse these things. The Obstetric dominance can bend a woman into doing things that she woudl not otherswise do. I don't think we can judge her for that." Very true. Have you never done anything that you would rather not do, but the power dynamics led you to do otherwise? I can name thousands of times for me. I'm learning though. I'm learning to counter the default position of blind obedience to authority. To choose what I want instead of what others think is best. We are socialised into compliance. We are compliant even when we have ethical problems with what we are asked to do. Milgram and Zimbardo's work showed that clearly. How could she roll over?or sit up and sit still? How could she not? Unless she was fantastically liberated and in her own power. And how many birthing women can do that? At atime of exquisite vulnerability and surrender. (This is where we need the wild nature to rise up!) And to add to the story: A study involving 242 nulliparous pregnant women by Fisher, Smith and Astbury in 1995found the likelihood of women experiencing operative delivery and caesarian section was: increased further among those who in late pregnancy were thinking clearly, had high self-esteem, mature means of dealing with anxiety, were confident in their knowledge of childbirth procedures and in secure partnerships with highly educated men. There was no evidence that either elevated anxiety or abnormalities of personality contributed to obstetric outcome. These findings indicate that obstetric decision-making is significantly influenced by patient personality and socioeconomic circumstances. In particular, they suggest that fear of malpractice litigation, physician convenience factors and the response of obstetricians to assured, well pregnancy-educated pregnant women may be influencing the use of operative intervention in delivery. The response of obstetricians to assured, well, educated pregnant women in this study has chilling parallels to the findings from the investigation into gender and school education (Collins, C., Batten, M., Ainley, J. Getty, C. 1996). The researchers concluded that sex based harassment seems to be part of a process of establishing dominance relations among males as well as putting girls as a group in their place in a gender system. so it is about raising awareness of the power of socialisation; challenging one's own behaviours, seeking to become strong and powerful on an internal level that will stop us rolling over. In solidarity (thanks Justine) warmly, Carolyn
[ozmidwifery] Midwife in Geelong area?
I'm sure there is someone on the list in this area, but breastfeeding seems to have sapped any memory cells from my atrophied brain!! This request was on the Essential Baby website, thought I'd post it here and see if anyone can help... Can anyone point me in the direction of a midwife (or two) in the Geelong Area? I would like to have a chat in regard to all things pregnancy/labour/baby... Thanks- Isis Thanks in advance Tania -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] obs and gobs
Title: Message I wonder what our vaginas and pelvic floors are supposed to comply with? Or whom? This lack of faith in women and what they can do seems to be the legacy of a past time.for a good read see Reading Birth and Death (jo Murphy-Lawless) and Sex and Suffering (Janet MacCalman). These explained many things for me. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Vicki ChanSent: Saturday, 9 November 2002 11:42 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] obs and gobs this fine bit of teaching I just came across from the uni of melb obs and gobs... should set our little hearts at rest... Primigravida Labour often begins slowly (the latent phase). False alarms or spurious labour are common. The duration of labour averages 14 h, augmentation with oxytocin is often indicated, epidural analgesia frequently requested. The 2nd stage is often particularly slow due to the poor compliance of vagina and pelvic floor. Instrumental vaginal delivery is not uncommonly needed. dont tell me they aint got faith!!! or what about this one... Natural Course of Obstructed Labour Primigravida The uterus responds to slow progress with a reduction in the intensity and frequency of contractions thereby further exacerbating the lack of progress. The natural course of neglected obstructed labour is to contract on and off for several days. The presenting part becomes impacted in the pelvic brim, the intervening tissues undergo pressure necrosis, infection develops, the fetus dies and with the skull bones collapsed, the fetus is able to deliver vaginally. An obstetric fistula is the long-term result. please, bring me the forceps this very minute!! Vicki http://www.obsgyn.unimelb.edu.au/Teaching/MHW%20Protocols/Obstetrics/Intra-Partum%20Care.htm
[ozmidwifery] Re : Julia's birth
And a shock of white blonde hair . Perfect I have also had a baby born with a crop of white blonde hair, it is truly beautiful. He was born in the water and to have a baby lifted through the water and this halo of white hair floating around the head, is a sight to be seen. cheers Megan -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Gold Coast Midwife
Hi Tory' my thoughts on the varicose vein is that yoga may help. I havea beauty in my right groin, starts somewhere up higher and finishes down my inner thigh. Pregnancy causes it to swell and bulge. I have been doing yoga for 5 years and three pregnancies later it has never caused me a minutes discomfort, just looks scary thats all. So if your S-I-L can finda pregnancy yoga class she might get some relief., cheers Megan -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Victoria HowellSent: Sunday, 10 November 2002 8:30To: MidwiferySubject: [ozmidwifery] Gold Coast Midwife Dear Ozmidders, My name is Tory Howell and I am a first year midwifery student in Adelaide. I am writing to ask if their are any midwives in the Gold Coast region that could help my sister-in-law. She is due on the 11th of January but has been told to have a c-section. I saw her not long ago and asked her why this was recommended. She couldn't quite give me a clear answer so I thought I would ask you all what you thought! She has quite prominent varicose veins on her inner left thigh which give her quite a bit of discomfort. She also has a swelling in her left groin almost in the labia region. (No varicose veins visible in this spot). She has been given stockings etc... to try and make here more comfortable and a obstetrician actually said that she could try a vaginal birth but a hospital based midwife told her to go for the c-section option. She is quite distressed and confused when I saw her as she just wants to do the safest thing for her baby and I felt she was leaning towards the c-section option but there is no way her husband will be able to take much time off while she will be recovering. I would really like her to see a more open minded midwife for some clear discussions of her options, so if there is anyone out there who can help, it would be greatly appreciated. I am going to try to be with her for the birth and stay as long as I can to provide some support. Kind regards, Tory XXOO
[ozmidwifery] info on cholestasis
Has anyone have any suggestions for a mum who is pregnant with baby number four, about 13 weeks, but developed cholestasis with her last baby. Fortunately it was very late into her pregnancy and she birthed vaginally after an induction, all going well. I have some info that was posted 12 months ago from Natalie Forbes Dash, just wondering if anyone knows anything new? thanks in advance, Megan. PS - she has had midwifery care in the past, but this may exclude her from using the Birth Centre, also now has health insurance and is a tad keen to get her return on this. She does have an idea about the different philosophies of midwives and Obs. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Midwife in Geelong area?
Hey thats my post!! What a small world the net can be... :) But yes- if anyone can point me in the direction of a couple of midwives in this area, I would be truly grateful!! Cheers- Isis -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery;acegraphics.com.au]On Behalf Of Tom, Tania and Sam Smallwood Sent: Sunday, 10 November 2002 2:41 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] Midwife in Geelong area? I'm sure there is someone on the list in this area, but breastfeeding seems to have sapped any memory cells from my atrophied brain!! This request was on the Essential Baby website, thought I'd post it here and see if anyone can help... Can anyone point me in the direction of a midwife (or two) in the Geelong Area? I would like to have a chat in regard to all things pregnancy/labour/baby... Thanks- Isis Thanks in advance Tania -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
