Re: [ozmidwifery] Had a win today
Title: Message Would love you to email a copy to me please regards, Robyn - Original Message - From: Wayne and Caroline McCullough To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 8:17 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Had a win today Hi Rhonda, Sarah Buckley (a doctor and a homebirth mum of 4) has a very informative and well referecedarticleabout ultrasounds. If you want I can pass it on via email. Just email me privately at [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you would like a copy for your friend. IMHO amnios are not worth the risk and should not be done after 4 months gestation. They are supposed to do those a lot earlier if there is a high risk of problems and only in cases where a woman may wish to terminate the pregnancy. Chees, Cas. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of RhondaSent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 10:20 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Had a win today I have a friend who is about 4 months pregnant - due in about June I think. She was telling me today that they want her to have an amniosentisis to check for Downs syndrome etc... She is 27 yrs old and this is her first shild with no history in the family of disability. Why would they want her to have a test like that done? She is not high risk as far as i can tell. the only other factor which I can think of and can not believe is that she is very dark skinned African and her husband a white Australian. Anyone got any idea why the hospital would request she do this? I told her of the risks that they had not mentioned. Rhonda. ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 22:09:50 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Had a win today Duck Aviva!! A pinards is the 'ear trumpet' that was used to listen to the baby's heart beat before the invention of sonicaids and monitors. I have a beautiful hand turned pinards made from ash. Sadly many 'modern' midwives don't have the comfidence to use one. Sally - Original Message - From: Aviva Sheb'a To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 11:09 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Had a win today OK, wot's pinards? (Is it so obvious I need to duck?) Aviva - Original Message - From: Sally Westbury To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:06 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Had a win today That is fantastic! I use my pinards for all my antenatal visits too, as I don't like to putelectronic gadgets near a developing and sensitive babySally WestburyHomebirth Midwife --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 10/01/03 IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
RE: [ozmidwifery] Had a win today
Title: Message Hi Robyn, Could you please email me at the address below so that I have your email address? : ). Cheers, Caroline. - Would love you to email a copy to me please regards, Robyn Sarah Buckley (a doctor and a homebirth mum of 4) has a very informative and well referecedarticleabout ultrasounds. If you want I can pass it on via email. Just email me privately at [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you would like a copy for your friend. IMHO amnios are not worth the risk and should not be done after 4 months gestation. They are supposed to do those a lot earlier if there is a high risk of problems and only in cases where a woman may wish to terminate the pregnancy. Chees, Cas.
[ozmidwifery] FW: [Maternitycoalitonmidwives] news for Vic midwives
This was quite a fruitful meeting, another two women attended alongside Anne-Louise Carlton (a mother not sure how old her baby is?) Louise Milne-Roch newly appointed CEO of the Nurses Board Victoria, in the job for just 8 days - came mainly as an observer but also to get a feel of the meeting content. Anne Fuller Jackson also attended, she will be doing most of the research for the Discussion Paper to be put before Parliament in April. They were a very interested group of women, quite understanding of the midwife role in different practice settings. Would love Justine Caines to meet these women - my imagination is they would all gel well together. Will await the joint compilation of the meeting and then post it for all to read. The main emphasis for me was confirmation that common sense prevails - it was clear that the present professional indemnity saga was understood by these women. Anne-Louise Carlton said while midwives do not have access to Professional Indemnity there is no intention for the Nurses Board Victoria to participate in deregistration. There was a lot of common sense discussion about the different roles of midwifery as they currently stand and how best to deal with these differences in the event of a separate Midwives Act. A fall back position was addressed that gave credence to a Health Practitioners Act. For me it established the need for women to hear us and for experienced women (in childbirth) to make decisions for women at parliamentary level. Lots of healthy discussion and good political dialogue. Congratulations to the very articulate consumer representative Leslie Arnott and her baby Clay who indulged in a long breastfeed, gurgled and farted a little then went off into a beautiful satisfied sleep. I felt very proud of Leslie and her confident approach, eloquent in the placement of her points for the needs of women and babies. Just another point - Have also had a reply from my letter to Steve Bracks, Premier Vic will scan and post that soon also. Happy Birthdays to all and a special thought for Sue Cookson regards,Robyn -Original Message- From: villagemidwife2002 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 8:18 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Maternitycoalitonmidwives] news for Vic midwives Dear all A group of MC members met with the Practitioner Regulation unit at the health dept today. We will put together a report of the meeting Anne-Louise Carlton is manager, and she is interested in legislative reform - even to the extent of a Midwives Act. She wants to get new legislation prepared for the Spring sitting of the parliament. A discussion paper on the review of health practitioner legislation will be prepared, followed by an opportunity for public consultation and submissions, and a round of consultations with key stakeholders. This will all happen in the near future. EVERYONE will need to respond. If you have an opinion that you would like to air on this list, now's the time. The group who attended the meeting - Sue Budge, Robyn Thompson, Leslie Arnott (+ baby Clay), Pauline Ahearne and me - all preferred to option of total reform and a Midwives Act. If you have copies of the current legislation governing midwifery in other countries [or States of Oz]RT (esp those with Midwives Acts), or know someone who could get hold of it, please chase it up, and let me know. There is a long way to go yet, and legislative reform is only one step in the total reform package that we want to see, but the meeting seemed very positive. Another matter to report is an interesting development in the professional indemnity insurance stuff. We have been assured at the meeting today that the legislation will not be further changed to make it a mandatory requirement for registration - that this will remain a 'discretionary' power that the regulatory authority has (ie Nurses Board). We have been told to seek clarification in writing from the Minister, which of course we will do. Yes Minister! I will be away for the next few days. We are renting Kerreen's place at Phillip Island. I received an up to date copy of the list of MCH coordinators for the State, so have attached it to the files on this site. I got it after being ticked off for hand delivering birth notification forms to the centres, rather than going through the coordinators! Stay strong Joy J To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://au.docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Pinnards v's dopplar
For years and years, Pinnards and the human ear were the best tools. The midwife trains her ear the more she listens. The easiest way to get a good heart beat is to palpate the baby first, feel where the baby's back lies and listen over the shoulder, if posterior listen over thechest.Most children and dad's can hear the heart rate with an ear especially when you teach them to gently palpate the baby's lie and presentation. kind regards Robyn -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 6:44 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Pinnards v's dopplarHI allas a midwife student I find it interesting to see how different midwives work. I was surprised to see (well not really :-( ) when I was on my recent clinical placement that there were no pinards readily available...I hunted around til I found one in the FBUand used it on the few occasions when I was granted the opportunity to feel and listen...Having worked with many HM MW over the years I find most have great skills in listening to the babe with a pinard in whatever positions the woman seemed to get herself into...and if the pinard was not suitable, then the stethoscope or the naked ear was used. I have found personally that the art is in tuning the ear to the babes heart sounds.it truly is a skill to master using the pinard and the stethoscopeboth I am becoming more confident in using. I as yet cannot hear with the naked earbut as with the pinard and the steth...once you do KNow what your hearing its unmistakable.I find the old doppler a bit of a trick though...again its seems to be what one gets used too and having not used one alot I find its practise in 'knowing' how to tilt the transducerseems to be the 'angle of the dangle'...in how reliable one is in using one. Again practice and experience !! I love using the pinardand in labour if I cannot hear the FHR reliably I try the stethoscopeparticularly if the woman is mobile and active, on all fours etc...it alot easier to just slip the steth in under her belly to listen than to disrupt her rhythm. The lower the babe gets into the pelvis too, the more difficult I find it to hear the heart b! ! eat...even with a dopplerbut once that babe is really nice and rotated to the anterior it seems for me easier to hear it againagain all comes with experience I suppose:-))Yours in reforming midwiferyTina Pettigrew.B Mid Student ACU Melb.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Response to criticisms re-use of water during labour/birth at RPA
Hi friends and colleagues Seems to me that there is no bridging of the gap here. Would be really good if you could all sit down around a table and just talk. The autocratic, bureaucratic approach doesn't really do anyone any good. Women, their chosen others and midwives can do this together. Whether advocate or midwife you all have excellent and very important roles to ensure the woman gets her ultimate experience. So please come together in an all consuming and supportive way because the bottom line is, you are all fighting for the same cause. Best wishes and love to all Robyn -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Hannah Dahlen Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 6:36 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Response to criticisms re-use of water duringlabour/birth at RPA Dear Andrea Good communication is the key to avoiding most misunderstandings. Just think how many wars would have or could have been averted if this was done in the first place. We could not agree with you more on this issue. We would certainly not find it acceptable for any midwife to be un-welcoming, antagonistic or rude. We believe we have dealt with the use of water for labour and birth issue in the previous email but if there is another concern here to do with two specific RPA staff members then this should be pursued through the appropriate channels. The way to do this is by approaching Alexis Upton the manager of the Delivery Ward or Administration. This way all the facts can be obtained and both sides are able to tell their story. It would also be best if the woman involved would be the one to make the complaint as I assure you this will be taken very seriously and thoroughly explored. This way it will look less like someone is pushing his or her own political agenda so to speak and it will hold much more weight. Thank goodness the voice of the consumer does hold so much power. It is a pity they don¹t realise it, as our system would be a lot better off. We are not asking you to fall into line to protect midwives¹ but there are several very effective avenues for making complaints. None is more effective than going to the management with the concerns if they can¹t be resolved with the individual or individuals. There are higher recourses when this is not satisfactory. This will indeed help RPA keep its house in order.¹ None of us is beyond improvement and we always seek the opportunity to improve. We look forward to following up this issue with the woman involved, for as you rightly said the main concern was the effect this had on her. That would indeed be our main concern as well. Regards Hannah Dahlen (Clinical Midwifery Consultant, CSAHS) Helen Dowling (NUM Birth Centre RPA) Alexis Upton (NUM Delivery Ward RPA) Kate Griew (Clinical Midwifery Educator Delivery Ward RPA) on 19/1/03 10:51 AM, Andrea Robertson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Hannah for your explanations of the facilities at RPA. The situation that I encountered a, and wrote about, cannot be ignored, and was very different. What happened to me me and the woman who I was accompanying was this: We were met by a very uncooperative midwife who was neither welcoming or helpful. She was antagonistic from the start and was categorial about the water birth policy that said the bath could not be used for labour. We were not wanting a water birth but just the possibility of using the bath later in the labout if it would help the woman who was having a very sharp, short labour with a lot of pain. The water pressure is so low in the unit that it was going to take a very long time for the bath to fill and I felt we had to get started early. The supervisor who was then called in was extemely agitated and uncoperative. She did not introduce herself, was unnecessarily rude and was unwilling to talk to me rationally. I asked about the policy about using water in labour and was told that it was not written down. She said that she had worked in the UK and knew about using water but was not willing to let it happen on this particular night. She also made it very clear that the staff had not had any training and until this happened, no-one was to use the bath in any way. My main concern in all this was the effect it was having on the woman. Her rights were being restricted, she was being limited in what she should choose to do. If this option was indeed not to be offered, why was this not communciated in advance to this woman on her labour ward tour, or through her obstetrician? The poor communication skills demonstrated by the staff were appalling. I tried to be as low key as possible because I knew that the woman could probably hear what was going on even though she was in the next room. A woman in labour is excessively sensitive to her surroundings, as I am sure you will appreciate. I kept thinking, if this is happening to me and to this private client of a
Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: [HBAC] VBAC after 5 c/s
CONGRATULATIONS TO YOUR FRIEND, CAS!!! VBAC is a very special triumph. Hooray for woman power! Kind regards, Lois - Original Message - From: Wayne and Caroline McCullough [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 7:50 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] FW: [HBAC] VBAC after 5 c/s I just had to forward this on from my other mailing list [HBAC] on Yahoo Groups. This just goes to show how some women are just so amazing and how some doctors are so ignorant! Ps: friend of mine had her first VBAC yesterday, at home with MW and DH at 37 weeks after about 7-8 hours active labour. Baby weighed in at 7lbs. We are so proud of her! Cheers, Cas McCullough -Original Message- From: Leilah McCracken [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 23 January 2003 9:35 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [HBAC] VBAC after 5 c/s Hi list- women's bodies are amazing (as are at least a few OBs). I had to put this on my site. Leilah --- An OB/GYN Thread that Ended in VBAC -with thanks to Angela Horn of homebirth.org.uk. Find the original posts from this 1996 thread beginning here- http://forums.obgyn.net/ob-gyn-l/OBGYNL.9603/0647.html Would be interested in response from the list to a request presented to me last week. The pt is 37 y.o. G6 P5 [sixth pregnancy, fifth child] with five prior low-transverse c/s. 1st section done for CPD with delivery of 4 lb infant. 2nd section elective repeat. 3rd section elective repeat. 4th section after failed VBAC. c/s performed after 45' in second stage with final Dx of fetal heart rate abnormality and persistent OP 5th section performed after pt had experienced 24 hr of ROM [rupture of membranes] without labor (records indicated hesitancy to attempt induction with four prior uterine incisions) She is VERY motivated to attempt VBAC. My inclination is to go for it, but I'm not sure about augmentation (even with IUPC) if failure to progress occurred. I'll be anxious to hear your opinions. Terri Rosenbaum, M.D. == Terri: I would let her attempt a VBAC, and I would augment her if necessary. I don't know anything about your hospital and facilities, but the usual VBAC guidelines apply. I have always thought that most ruptures occur during the 2nd. stage of labor. In addition, she could have a uterine rupture with augmentation as a G5, regardless of the prior C/S history. Patrick S. Pevoto, M.D., FACOG A contraindication to pitocin is a contraindication to contractions. If you are willing to allow spontaneous contractions, then what is wrong with oxytocin induced contractions? A contraction is a contraction. The only diference is that you are doing something to bring about the contraction with the oxytocin. If properly administered and watched, there should be no more problem with pitocin induced contractions. [Note from Leilah McCracken, site editor: what an idiot!!] With this patient, if I were to allow her to labor or to be augmented, I would be there with my hand on her abdomen and probably watching the Intrauterine pressure monitor as well.. R.Daniel Braun, MD Clinical Professor Indiana U. School of Medicine At 3:23 PM 31/3/96, R. Daniel Braun wrote: A contraindication to pitocin is a contraindication to contractions. If you are willing to allow spontaneous contractions, then what is wrong with oxytocin induced contractions ? A contraction is a contraction. The only diference is that you are doing something to bring about the contraction with the oxytocin. If properly administered and watched, there should be no more problem with pitocin induced contractions. But you are interfering with the normal course of events and then if somethign goes wrong you have to accept responsibility. With this patient, if I were to allow her to labor or to be augmented, I would be there with my hand on her abdomen and probably watching the Intrauterine pressure monitor as well. I notice that you didn't write how you would deliver. Here she would get an elective Vaginal Bypass and we'd really strongly try and convince her to sign for T/L [trial of labor- TOL]. Dr. Eberhard W. Lisse I would not offer this patient a trial of labor for many reasons including liability concern. Douglas Krell MD I do a lot of VBAC yet without any data to back me, I would recommend repeat C/S in this case. She's already had a failed VBAC as well as her fifth C/S where someone told her it was best to not labor. There's a good chance you could prove that MD wrong, but there is also a chance you could prove him right. Chances are she'd do fine with a VBAC, but I think you are out on a limb if something bad happens, and bad things do happen. Be happy with a healthy baby and do the safe thing. If you do elect to proceed with TOL, I would give her a real TOL with pit and all. Watch closely, stay in the hospital, probably in the room. Good luck. Mitch Nudelman
Re: [ozmidwifery] Pinnards v's dopplar
i always understood that pinnards were invented to avoid contact with women(by professionals)i.e. keep a distance and therefore avoid doctors and midwives catching 'pubic lice'is this an old wives tale? i find it just as easy to use my ear directly over the shoulder... inline: image.tiff http://www.homebirthservices.com.au inline: image.tiff
RE: [ozmidwifery] Pinnards v's dopplar
Over time the Pinnards has become a helpful little tool for those who prefer to use it. Often the inteded use changes with experience. I feel pretty sure that Caroline Flint has something about it in her book also. regards, Robyn -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Trudie de keijzer Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:40 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Pinnards v's dopplar i always understood that pinnards were invented to avoid contact with women(by professionals)i.e. keep a distance and therefore avoid doctors and midwives catching 'pubic lice'is this an old wives tale? i find it just as easy to use my ear directly over the shoulder... -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] National get-together/Conference
Andrea tells me there hasn't been much more in the way of response to a Conference so maybe we can remove this from the files and rethink.Robyn -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Andrea Robertson Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2002 12:13 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] National get-together/Conference Hi, I've changed the subject on this one - nearly missed Robyn's post... can we please change the title when the content changes from the original string? Robyn wrote: Why don't we through Ozmidwifery organise an outstanding NATIONAL CONFERENCE with All the interested and supportive groups (lead my Maternity Coalition and NMAP). Invite the most effective members of Parliament and all the Area Chief Executive Officers and many doctors, invite overseas speaker who have made such changes in their country. Invite universities and educators from all areas. Even the NZ Prime Minister would be helpful. Invite the major insurance companies. Don't wait any longer, we are all talking about being united, set some plans now and start working on it in the New Year so we can set some dates. Who is interested in this united front? I am certainly interested in helping with this. I have made a start by making the main thrust of the next Future Birth event a forum for announcing/discussing/exploring NMAP, ACMI the PI issues and what these all mean for the future of midwifery in Australia. There is already considerable interest in this event and I hope that we will attract a lot of midwives (as we did last time) who have not heard of any of this - without them we will get no-where with implementing NMAP. I've been thinking that there is a need to follow this up with exploration of more aspects of this and that perhaps I should mount another event in 12 months instead of 2 years as I normally do. I would be willing to throw the resources of Birth International behind this effort, with profits to go to Maternity Coalition, if it would help. Getting an event like this off the ground takes time and effort and a level of expertise that we could provide. Let me know what you all think. Meanwhile, we can get the ball rolling at the Future Birth event in April. I have some ideas for supporting Maternity Coalition through this event as well. Andrea - Andrea Robertson Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Pinnards v's dopplar
Quote of the Week From Midwifery Today seems pertinent to this discussion: MMWe who seek to assist childbirth using the age-old art and craft of midwifery must be willing to open our minds to discussion of what is truly useful to women and what may be unhelpful, especially when used routinely.-Sara Wickham
Re: [ozmidwifery] Response to criticisms re-use of water during labour/birth at RPA
Dear Hannah, Thank you for your reply. I have written to Alexis Upton and requested a meeting with her about this issue. I am looking forward to discussing it further with her. Regards, Andrea At 06:35 PM 23/01/2003, Hannah Dahlen wrote: Dear Andrea Good communication is the key to avoiding most misunderstandings. Just think how many wars would have or could have been averted if this was done in the first place. We could not agree with you more on this issue. We would certainly not find it acceptable for any midwife to be un-welcoming, antagonistic or rude. We believe we have dealt with the use of water for labour and birth issue in the previous email but if there is another concern here to do with two specific RPA staff members then this should be pursued through the appropriate channels. The way to do this is by approaching Alexis Upton the manager of the Delivery Ward or Administration. This way all the facts can be obtained and both sides are able to tell their story. It would also be best if the woman involved would be the one to make the complaint as I assure you this will be taken very seriously and thoroughly explored. This way it will look less like someone is pushing his or her own political agenda so to speak and it will hold much more weight. Thank goodness the voice of the consumer does hold so much power. It is a pity they don¹t realise it, as our system would be a lot better off. We are not asking you to fall into line to protect midwives¹ but there are several very effective avenues for making complaints. None is more effective than going to the management with the concerns if they can¹t be resolved with the individual or individuals. There are higher recourses when this is not satisfactory. This will indeed help RPA keep its house in order.¹ None of us is beyond improvement and we always seek the opportunity to improve. We look forward to following up this issue with the woman involved, for as you rightly said the main concern was the effect this had on her. That would indeed be our main concern as well. Regards Hannah Dahlen (Clinical Midwifery Consultant, CSAHS) Helen Dowling (NUM Birth Centre RPA) Alexis Upton (NUM Delivery Ward RPA) Kate Griew (Clinical Midwifery Educator Delivery Ward RPA) on 19/1/03 10:51 AM, Andrea Robertson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Hannah for your explanations of the facilities at RPA. The situation that I encountered a, and wrote about, cannot be ignored, and was very different. What happened to me me and the woman who I was accompanying was this: We were met by a very uncooperative midwife who was neither welcoming or helpful. She was antagonistic from the start and was categorial about the water birth policy that said the bath could not be used for labour. We were not wanting a water birth but just the possibility of using the bath later in the labout if it would help the woman who was having a very sharp, short labour with a lot of pain. The water pressure is so low in the unit that it was going to take a very long time for the bath to fill and I felt we had to get started early. The supervisor who was then called in was extemely agitated and uncoperative. She did not introduce herself, was unnecessarily rude and was unwilling to talk to me rationally. I asked about the policy about using water in labour and was told that it was not written down. She said that she had worked in the UK and knew about using water but was not willing to let it happen on this particular night. She also made it very clear that the staff had not had any training and until this happened, no-one was to use the bath in any way. My main concern in all this was the effect it was having on the woman. Her rights were being restricted, she was being limited in what she should choose to do. If this option was indeed not to be offered, why was this not communciated in advance to this woman on her labour ward tour, or through her obstetrician? The poor communication skills demonstrated by the staff were appalling. I tried to be as low key as possible because I knew that the woman could probably hear what was going on even though she was in the next room. A woman in labour is excessively sensitive to her surroundings, as I am sure you will appreciate. I kept thinking, if this is happening to me and to this private client of a very supportive obstetrician, how does the average, unsupoprted woman fare? This private client was always going to have her obstetrician in attendance as he was in the building with three other labouring women at the time and he was unconcerned about her labouring in water (or even a waterbirth is it came to that) so why were the staff so uptight? The fear thing has everyone running scared and it is the women who must suffer from a lack of preparedness and poor public relations by the staff! Yes, this has been discussed in a public forum and I make no apologies for this. There is a right to
RE: [ozmidwifery] Birth Plans WAS Had a win today
Hi Kartini, I would be glad to share my birth plan with you but I am not quite finished. I am trying to get it finished this week as I am beginning to think this baby is going to come earlier than expected. It is a list and an essay/letter of sorts. I am trying to keep it brief but have also added notes for the doctor/hospital midwives to read if they have concerns over my choices. I felt it necessary to back up each contraversial point with references from the medical and birth literature. I am giving my own midwife a two page list as she does not need to be told to be supportive and respectful... I just know she will be : ). Please email me off-list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you would like a copy when I am done. Salut! Cas. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Kartini Thomas Sent: Thursday, 23 January 2003 11:25 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Had a win today Hi Cas, I was wondering if you, or anyone else, could send me a written example of a birth plan. This is a big issue in france and I would really like to know how aussie women write theirs, how they go over them with their midwife or doctor, how they are received ??? Is this a list like the one you write for christmas, or is it a whole essay/epic poem? Please show me if you have the time. thanks a lot, Kartini From: Wayne and Caroline McCullough [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] Had a win today Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 22:13:11 +1000 Hi all! Just had a major win today and had to share. I am due to VBAC in mid April and I just got my obgyn to agree to no IV bung and no continuous monitoring (except for 15 minutes per hour while in hospital unless there is foetal distress evident from intermittent monitoring). I went into my doc's office very nervous about confronting these issues and ready to argue my case but he just agreed that my requests were reasonable and left it at that (even though he had insisted on both of these when I first talked to him)! At least now I can be sure to get his written support of my birthplan so that I don't run into admin. and policy probs while in labour... A real weight off my mind. We are all set for the birth in April and I am loving getting to know my midwife who will be with us for the labour and birth! Feeling positive, supported and encouraged... Cas. --- _ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] PINARD not Pinnards
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] PINARD not Pinnards Dear listers I find my Doppler invaluable when the children or other family members want to listen to their baby to be. It is also an essential tool for underwater monitoring. However I maintain my skills using the Pinard as I sometimes have clients wanting the safest environment for their unborn baby, request that I dont use ultrasound to monitor fetal heart rates during pregnancy. Like Lieve I sometimes leave a Pinard for the father to listen when he is having trouble making ear contact. Usually after a few practice runs finding the point of maximum intensity the men tell me they would rather listen with their ear. PS I believe the correct spelling in PINARD ... The stethescope was named after the same Pinard who devised Pinards manouvre for dealing with the extended legs of a breech baby. Jan Robinson On 22/1/03 5:16 PM, Lieve Huybrechts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thats also my way of working. They come to the prenatal visits and they can tell exactly how the baby is positioned. They call me the moment that breech babys tumble around. That gives them confidence and power. I have a lot of pinnards and I give each couple a pinard from 20 weeks on and I teach the father how to listen. They make it an event of the day. In one case I forgot my doppler at home during a birth. I listened to the baby with the pinard and they didnt find it strange or unsafe at all. They knew that it was perfect. Warm greetings Lieve On 22-01-2003 00:00, Sally Westbury [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cas, You point is intereting. I also dont offer for women to hear the baby. .. It is that process of allowing or teaching women to know their own baby, for them to be the expert. I also ask the women what position the baby is in and how the baby is.. whether the baby has dropped etc etc.. before I feel.. Probably is why at the end of the pregnancy I have women who can be very overdue (I am waiting with 2 overdue women presently) who are utterly confident that the baby is fine and they can wait for the baby to be ready to come out! Sally Westbury Homebirth Midwife You are a midwife, assisting at someone else's birth. Do good without show or fuss. Facilitate what is happening rather than what you think ought to be happening. If you must take the lead, lead so that the mother is helped, yet still free and in charge. When the baby is born, the mother will rightly say: We did it ourselves! from The Tao Te Ching
Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: [Maternitycoalitonmidwives] news for Vic midwives
Sounds like 2003 has started well! Hooray! and Thank You to you all for doing such a wonderful, important, job. Aviva - Original Message - From: Robyn Thompson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:10 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] FW: [Maternitycoalitonmidwives] news for Vic midwives This was quite a fruitful meeting, another two women attended alongsideAnne-Louise Carlton (a mother not sure how old her baby is?)Louise Milne-Roch newly appointed CEO of the Nurses Board Victoria, in thejob for just 8 days - came mainly as an observer but also to get a feel ofthe meeting content. Anne Fuller Jackson also attended, she will be doingmost of the research for the Discussion Paper to be put before Parliament inApril. They were a very interested group of women, quite understanding ofthe midwife role in different practice settings. Would love Justine Cainesto meet these women - my imagination is they would all gel well together.Will await the joint compilation of the meeting and then post it for all toread. The main emphasis for me was confirmation that common sense prevails -it was clear that the present professional indemnity saga was understood bythese women. Anne-Louise Carlton said while midwives do not have access toProfessional Indemnity there is no intention for the Nurses Board Victoriato participate in deregistration.There was a lot of common sense discussion about the different roles ofmidwifery as they currently stand and how best to deal with thesedifferences in the event of a separate Midwives Act. A fall back positionwas addressed that gave credence to a Health Practitioners Act.For me it established the need for women to hear us and for experiencedwomen (in childbirth) to make decisions for women at parliamentary level.Lots of healthy discussion and good political dialogue. Congratulations tothe very articulate consumer representative Leslie Arnott and her baby Claywho indulged in a long breastfeed, gurgled and farted a little then went offinto a beautiful satisfied sleep. I felt very proud of Leslie and herconfident approach, eloquent in the placement of her points for the needs ofwomen and babies.Just another point - Have also had a reply from my letter to Steve Bracks,Premier Vic will scan and post that soon also.Happy Birthdays to all and a special thought for Sue Cooksonregards, Robyn-Original Message-From: villagemidwife2002 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 8:18 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [Maternitycoalitonmidwives] news for Vic midwivesDear allA group of MC members met with the Practitioner Regulation unit atthe health dept today. We will put together a report of the meetingAnne-Louise Carlton is manager, and she is interested in legislativereform - even to the extent of a Midwives Act. She wants to get newlegislation prepared for the Spring sitting of the parliament.A discussion paper on the review of health practitioner legislationwill be prepared, followed by an opportunity for public consultationand submissions, and a round of consultations with key stakeholders.This will all happen in the near future. EVERYONE will need torespond.If you have an opinion that you would like to air on this list,now's the time. The group who attended the meeting - Sue Budge,Robyn Thompson, Leslie Arnott (+ baby Clay), Pauline Ahearne and me -all preferred to option of total reform and a Midwives Act.If you have copies of the current legislation governing midwifery inother countries [or States of Oz]RT (esp those with Midwives Acts), or knowsomeone whocould get hold of it, please chase it up, and let me know. There isa long way to go yet, and legislative reform is only one step in thetotal reform package that we want to see, but the meeting seemedvery positive.Another matter to report is an interesting development in theprofessional indemnity insurance stuff. We have been assured at themeeting today that the legislation will not be further changed tomake it a mandatory requirement for registration - that this willremain a 'discretionary' power that the regulatory authority has (ieNurses Board). We have been told to seek clarification in writingfrom the Minister, which of course we will do. Yes Minister!I will be away for the next few days. We are renting Kerreen's placeat Phillip Island.I received an up to date copy of the list of MCH coordinators forthe State, so have attached it to the files on this site. I got itafter being ticked off for hand delivering birth notification formsto the centres, rather than going through the coordinators!Stay strongJoy JTo unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://au.docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/--This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system
[ozmidwifery] S.O.S!
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] Pinnards v's dopplar Dear List, I know its a long shot but if you know anyone in the Melbourne area who is suitably qualified to help a mother of eight look after her seven week old twins, Id be glad to hear from them. The hours she needs are M-Th, midnight to 6 a.m. starting immediately! She is breastfeeding them and wants to continue doing that, but would like to get some sleep after their midnight feed until their next feed at 3, which is understandable. She would also like to go to sleep afterwards, again, not an unreasonable request! Her current nanny sleeps on the job and has other unsuitable traits which I wont go into at the moment. I can be contacted on 9530 6930 if anyone knows of anybody who can help, that would be wonderful. Pay is negotiable. Love, Lyn Cottee -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Lieve Huybrechts Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 4:17 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Pinnards v's dopplar Thats also my way of working. They come to the prenatal visits and they can tell exactly how the baby is positioned. They call me the moment that breech babys tumble around. That gives them confidence and power. I have a lot of pinnards and I give each couple a pinard from 20 weeks on and I teach the father how to listen. They make it an event of the day. In one case I forgot my doppler at home during a birth. I listened to the baby with the pinard and they didnt find it strange or unsafe at all. They knew that it was perfect. Warm greetings Lieve On 22-01-2003 00:00, Sally Westbury [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cas, You point is intereting. I also dont offer for women to hear the baby. .. It is that process of allowing or teaching women to know their own baby, for them to be the expert. I also ask the women what position the baby is in and how the baby is.. whether the baby has dropped etc etc.. before I feel.. Probably is why at the end of the pregnancy I have women who can be very overdue (I am waiting with 2 overdue women presently) who are utterly confident that the baby is fine and they can wait for the baby to be ready to come out! Sally Westbury Homebirth Midwife You are a midwife, assisting at someone else's birth. Do good without show or fuss. Facilitate what is happening rather than what you think ought to be happening. If you must take the lead, lead so that the mother is helped, yet still free and in charge. When the baby is born, the mother will rightly say: We did it ourselves! from The Tao Te Ching
Re: [ozmidwifery] Pinnards v's dopplar
Dear Mary and Ozmid Listers - I agree the Midwifery Today quote is pertinent to the discussions about listening... I'd like to add this quote, which I've shared before. "Progress is impossible without change: and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything" George Bernard Shaw. Food for thought... Regards, Lois Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:30 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Pinnards v's dopplar Quote of the Week From Midwifery Today seems pertinent to this discussion: MMWe who seek to assist childbirth using the age-old art and craft of midwifery must be willing to open our minds to discussion of what is truly useful to women and what may be unhelpful, especially when used routinely.-Sara Wickham
Re: [ozmidwifery] Who/what The Tao Te Ching is?
Thanks Sally for that wonderful explanation. Cheers, Joanne. - Original Message - From: Sally Westbury [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:43 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Who/what The Tao Te Ching is? The Tao Te Ching, the ancient Chinese Book of the Tao was written by philosopher Lao Tzu around 2500 BC. Not a religion, Taoism resembles modern Physics in that it describes the nature of the universe, the laws that govern it and the ideal ways that a person might place themselves in harmony with those laws. As the oldest surviving book, it shows that the simpler and more in tune with the laws of Nature something is, the longer it will endure. The Tao Te Ching is a challenge. It challenges you to see the world as it actually is by accepting the stark truth of the physical laws that control existence and evolution. It challenges us to discover intellectual independence wherein we have complete trust in our own perceptions and instincts. It challenges you to reject force and rely rather on the steady force of your attitudes to influence others. Sally Westbury Homebirth Midwife You are a midwife, assisting at someone else's birth. Do good without show or fuss. Facilitate what is happening rather than what you think ought to be happening. If you must take the lead, lead so that the mother is helped, yet still free and in charge. When the baby is born, the mother will rightly say: We did it ourselves! from The Tao Te Ching -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Had a win today
Title: Message I too would love a copy please Cas. Also, wishing you love and stength for your birth. Cheers, Joanne. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Robyn Thompson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Had a win today Would love you to email a copy to me please regards, Robyn - Original Message - From: Wayne and Caroline McCullough To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 8:17 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Had a win today Hi Rhonda, Sarah Buckley (a doctor and a homebirth mum of 4) has a very informative and well referecedarticleabout ultrasounds. If you want I can pass it on via email. Just email me privately at [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you would like a copy for your friend. IMHO amnios are not worth the risk and should not be done after 4 months gestation. They are supposed to do those a lot earlier if there is a high risk of problems and only in cases where a woman may wish to terminate the pregnancy. Chees, Cas. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of RhondaSent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 10:20 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Had a win today I have a friend who is about 4 months pregnant - due in about June I think. She was telling me today that they want her to have an amniosentisis to check for Downs syndrome etc... She is 27 yrs old and this is her first shild with no history in the family of disability. Why would they want her to have a test like that done? She is not high risk as far as i can tell. the only other factor which I can think of and can not believe is that she is very dark skinned African and her husband a white Australian. Anyone got any idea why the hospital would request she do this? I told her of the risks that they had not mentioned. Rhonda. ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 22:09:50 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Had a win today Duck Aviva!! A pinards is the 'ear trumpet' that was used to listen to the baby's heart beat before the invention of sonicaids and monitors. I have a beautiful hand turned pinards made from ash. Sadly many 'modern' midwives don't have the comfidence to use one. Sally - Original Message - From: Aviva Sheb'a To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 11:09 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Had a win today OK, wot's pinards? (Is it so obvious I need to duck?) Aviva - Original Message - From: Sally Westbury To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:06 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Had a win today That is fantastic! I use my pinards for all my antenatal visits too, as I don't like to putelectronic gadgets near a developing and sensitive babySally WestburyHomebirth Midwife --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 10/01/03 IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
Re: [ozmidwifery] Pinnards v's dopplar
In a message dated 24/01/03 2:38:06 PM AUS Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Do you mean just a regular old stethescope, Tina? Cheers, Jen HI Jen.. yep!! Cheers TinaXX
Re: [ozmidwifery] S.O.S!
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] Pinnards v's dopplar Hi Lyn surely this mum is eligible for In home care - paid for by the govt. Are you acredited to assess and provide or can you work along with someone like Louise Dunham (who is accredited) or Susan Rogan (who probably is) -they are quite fussy about their nannies and it would be good netowrking to be able to "share" staff in special circumstances like this. She needs to report her current nanny to whatever agency she went through and demand a replacement and/ or refund!! Poor woman!! Pinky - Original Message - From: Lyn Cottee To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 1:13 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] S.O.S! Dear List, I know its a long shot but if you know anyone in the Melbourne area who is suitably qualified to help a mother of eight look after her seven week old twins, Id be glad to hear from them. The hours she needs are M-Th, midnight to 6 a.m. starting immediately! She is breastfeeding them and wants to continue doing that, but would like to get some sleep after their midnight feed until their next feed at 3, which is understandable. She would also like to go to sleep afterwards, again, not an unreasonable request! Her current nanny sleeps on the job and has other unsuitable traits which I wont go into at the moment. I can be contacted on 9530 6930 if anyone knows of anybody who can help, that would be wonderful. Pay is negotiable. Love, Lyn Cottee -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Lieve HuybrechtsSent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 4:17 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Pinnards v's dopplar Thats also my way of working. They come to the prenatal visits and they can tell exactly how the baby is positioned. They call me the moment that breech babys tumble around. That gives them confidence and power. I have a lot of pinnards and I give each couple a pinard from 20 weeks on and I teach the father how to listen. They make it an event of the day. In one case I forgot my doppler at home during a birth. I listened to the baby with the pinard and they didnt find it strange or unsafe at all. They knew that it was perfect.Warm greetingsLieveOn 22-01-2003 00:00, "Sally Westbury" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cas,You point is intereting. I also dont offer for women to hear the baby. .. It is that process of allowing or teaching women to know their own baby, for them to be the expert. I also ask the women what position the baby is in and how the baby is.. whether the baby has dropped etc etc.. before I feel.. Probably is why at the end of the pregnancy I have women who can be very overdue (I am waiting with 2 overdue women presently) who are utterly confident that the baby is fine and they can wait for the baby to be ready to come out!Sally WestburyHomebirth Midwife"You are a midwife, assisting at someone else's birth. Do good without show or fuss. Facilitate what is happening rather than what you think ought to be happening. If you must take the lead, lead so that the mother is helped, yet still free and in charge. When the baby is born, the mother will rightly say: "We did it ourselves!" from The Tao Te Ching
