Re: [ozmidwifery] Intro
I just wanted to write to say thank you Gloria for these wise words. Your views on the 'inner need for a big story' really resonated with me have made me think about how we ( I include myself in this!) either allow or encourage situations to play out to fulfill this need yes birth is amazing wonderful exciting awesome, in some ways an 'extreme' experience, but also just as much mundane, ordinary, common-place just part of 'daily life' you see this 'ordinary-ness' much more at home than in hospital I think (well that is my experience anyway). its got me to wondering how much the perceptions women hold around birth are culturally defined, how big a role TV other 'entertainment media' has played in this 'drama of birth' thing for women, midwives, other health professionals involved in maternity care. definitely our expectations have changed, both as consumers carers... whether women experience birth in hospital as 'ordinary' to start with... just thinking out loud... jennifairy independant midwife in south australia (so good to finally write that!) Gloria Lemay wrote: I've just joined the list and live in Vancouver, BC Canada. Some of you know me from articles I've written for Midwifery Today Magazine or just from being a generally uppity, brazen woman. Lieve told me you were discussing the drama in birth thread and I have read the posts with interest. It's so elusive, isn't it, trying to describe what birth is. It's very paradoxical a rites of passage, yet an ordinary day profound and spiritual yet down and dirty complex yet so simple intimate yet lonely and solitary painful yet pleasurable a huge accomplishment yet not of our doing Just when I think I know something about birth, something proves I know nothing once again. What a fun profession to be in. I would hope that introducing the lens of drama to examining birth would lead not so much to pointing fingers of blame for what's wrong with birth but, rather, to each player owning their own need for drama and lightening up a bit about it. When I had my last baby, I learned a technique for disappearing pain and used it all through the birth process. I only had about 5 minutes when I thought Gloria, you idiot, you knew it would feel like this, why are you here again?! As soon as the baby was out, I had this huge wave of regret. . . . .I had had a painless birth and had no story to tell, oh dear. I realized what an idiot I was, of course. Who in their right mind would want a dramatic story over a smooth birth?? I share that story with other women so they can take a look at the inner need for a big story in their own lives. When we get these things out of the closet and into the light of day, we become more powerful. The only demons that control us are the ones within. As a birth attendant, too, I can see that I have a need to be a saviour and a 'hero instead of a fly on the wall. Dramatic births are food for the insatiable ego. Learning to love the simple, silent arrivals with only a flickering, fleeting glance of gratitude from the woman transformed into mother. . . that is the quest of our spirits. I look forward to getting to know you on this list. Gloria Lemay, Vancouver, BC Canada No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.10 - Release Date: 13/05/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.12 - Release Date: 17/05/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Doulas or Birth Attendants who would like toshare their experiences?
Kelly, You can contact me off list if you like Jo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kelly @ BellyBelly Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 8:28 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au; Australian Doulas Subject: [ozmidwifery] Doulas or Birth Attendants who would like toshare their experiences? Hello Everyone! I'm hoping to get in touch with some Australian Birth Attendants / Doulas who would be interested in contributing their experiences and personal journey on becoming a Birth Attendant, for an article I am writing on BellyBelly. The Birth Attendant / Doula movement has had some great publicity in the media of late (just recently in the press and on the Today Show here in Melbourne last week!) which has prompted me to write the article for publication next month. Also, many women on my site are aware that I am doing Rhea's Birth Attending course and have gotten in touch with me, asking about how to become Birth Attendants / Doulas themselves... so I am writing all the what/where/when's etc. on becoming a Birth Attendant. So if you are interested, I would love to know which course you are doing and a little bit about it (I am going to include/write about all the training providers I know), and if you could also include some personal comments on your background - why you wanted to become a Birth Attendant / Doula and your personal journey since starting. This might include: *How you have felt before, during and after the course and your motivations *The most important things you have learnt about yourself and also the birth process *Is your course / working as a Birth Attendant better than you expected? *If you have completed your course and are working, how did the transition go and how do you feel about your work now? *Did you have any confidence issues and if so how did you overcome that? *Any other comments or advice you would like to contribute to a prospective birth attendant / doula. I will credit your names to the comments of course unless you would prefer not to. It will be published on the 1st June so if you could reply as soon as possible that would be great :) I'd especially love to hear a bit about everyone's backgrounds too, just to let everyone know that it doesn't matter what background or experience you have come from, you can still be a natural born Birth Attendant and a fabulous one at that. Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Director, www.bellybelly.com.au Gentle Solutions For Conception, Pregnancy, Birth Baby -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.8 - Release Date: 10/05/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.8 - Release Date: 5/10/2005 -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.8 - Release Date: 5/10/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: Breastfeeding
Hi Carina You've brought up some points that are good food for thought. It was a tragedy the day that milk banks were closed in Australia due to the scare with HIV, despite pasteurisation easily killing HIV (I wonder why sperm banks weren't also closed??). I note that a new bank is opening in WA and perhaps one in Melbourne. I wish them success. The incidence of physiological inability to breastfeed is somewhere in the order of 1 - 2 per 100 women. I don't believe with an incidence at this level that it warrants we guard everything we say to every woman. And then there's that really fascinating topic of 'guilt'. Can you induce guilt in someone? - maybe, if they really are guilty. However I don't feel guilty about something I have no control over. For example if I had no uterus I wouldn't feel guilty that I'm not adding to Australia's population, no matter how much Mr Howard exhorts me to. If I had no breasts or my breasts were not functional I would not feel guilty that I'm not breastfeeding regardless of how many people told me it was best. My opinion is that some health professionals don't know how to support women to breastfeed adequately and in covering their own feelings of guilt about this they 'pretend' that it's the mother they are trying not to make feel guilty. To give you lots of different opinions on guilt and breastfeeding do a google search using those terms. Have fun Denise At 03:23 PM 18/05/2005 +0930, you wrote: Some food for thought, What about the women who simply cannot breastfeed and cannot produce enough milk The wet nurse is still in existence in many tribal cultures where formulary has no influence. Its very easy to be passionate about something and sing its praises when you have experienced success, but what about those women who dont succeed despite months of trying and perseverance. I, like all many midwives of course believe that breast is best and should be promoted as optimum nutrition for a baby but sometimes I believe that in trying to get this message across we need to be careful not to make other women lose their confidence ands fall into the motherhood guilt trap. Carina *** Denise Fisher, MMP, BN, IBCLC Health e-Learning http://www.health-e-learning.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [ozmidwifery] Epidural top-up Policy
Well done! MM -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 19 May 2005 2:13 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Epidural top-up Policy Unfortunately this is what women want/expect even. (see thread on dramatic women) however, out here at Casey we don't offer epidurals as a first line of pain relief at all, consequently out of the 54 births we have so far, have had no epidurals at all...funnily enough, these women managed well with very little pain relief at all, just good midwifery care, support and encouragement. Sally Justine Caines [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Gee, why should midwives have ANYTHING to do with epidurals?? I thought midwifery was about well women and normal childbirth. Shouldn#8217;t this be left to the Drs! Perhaps if midwives said this we would see a change in practice! Can women in Parkes access deep warm water for pain relief? I am astounded that the majority of women can access Pethidine and an epidural and yet a tiny majority have access to deep water (sorry showers don#8217;t count!) Natural pain relief, that#8217;s the domian of midwifery JC Justine Caines National President nbsp;Maternity Coalition Inc PO Box 105 MERRIWA nbsp;NSW nbsp;2329 Ph: (02) 65482248 Fax: (02)65482902 Mob: 0408 210273 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.maternitycoalition.org.au ___ NOCC, http://nocc.sourceforge.net -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Waterbirths
Read more of this article in the full online version of E-News at: http://www.midwiferytoday.com/enews/enews0709.asp
[ozmidwifery] Hello from a HypnoBirthing practioner
Hi all I have been reading all the interesting postings and find them most informative. I am a HypnoBirthing practioner in Melbourne, Next week on the 27th of May I am flying to the Nederlands and would like to spend sometime with a midwife . I will be in Holland for 5 weeks. I have been in contact with Beatrijs Smulders who give me a couple of e-mail contactsbut with computer breakdowns I have not been successful in arranging anything. I see this trip overseas as a fantastic opportunity to broaden my knowledge in the birthing area. If anyone reading this could beof any assist in regards with contacts in Holland please contact me ASAP. Thanks very much for taking the time to read this. Hope to hear from someone soon. Happy Birthing Marietje Stcukey
Re: [ozmidwifery] Hello from a HypnoBirthing practioner
You might like to contact Christina Oudshoorne Marietje. She may be able to help you. Her email address is here in the cc box. Have a wonderful trip. Jan Jan Robinson Independent Midwife Practitioner National Coordinator Australian Society of Independent Midwives 8 Robin Crescent South Hurstville NSW 2221 Phone/Fax: 02 9546 4350 e-mail address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> website: www.midwiferyeducation.com.au On 18 May, 2005, at 17:57, Marietje Stuckey wrote: Hi all I have been reading all the interesting postings and find them most informative. I am a HypnoBirthing practioner in Melbourne, Next week on the 27th of May I am flying to the Nederlands and would like to spend some time with a midwife . I will be in Holland for 5 weeks. I have been in contact with Beatrijs Smulders who give me a couple of e-mail contacts but with computer breakdowns I have not been successful in arranging anything. I see this trip overseas as a fantastic opportunity to broaden my knowledge in the birthing area. If anyone reading this could be of any assist in regards with contacts in Holland please contact me ASAP. Thanks very much for taking the time to read this. Hope to hear from someone soon. Happy Birthing Marietje Stcukey
Re: [ozmidwifery] Epidural top-up Policy
Barbara Stokes wrote: Does anyone have a policy covering epidural top-ups using Pethidine/Saline please. I would also be interested in hearing from any midwife, regarding yearly accreditation requirements for epidural top-ups. If you contact Helen Godwin or Wendy Candy at Joondalup Health Campus the might send you a copy of our policy. 08) 94009400 We have to do a yearly accreditation for epidural top ups, which includes during labour and after a C/S. Our hospital policy requires yearly accreditation based on top-ups using marcain/fentanyl ie BP readings every 5 minutes for 30mins. Ours is the same but for 20 min, then 1/2 hourly thereafter (until the next bolus). I have had copy of ?where that pethidine/saline top-ups have pre top-up bp/pulse, check site etc, then in 5 minutes and infurther 15minutes. Ours says pre topup BP/pulse/resps, then resps at 5 min, 15 min then hourly for 3 hours (I think!). Epidural pethidine shouldn't affect BP like the local anaesthetic, so BP isn't really necessary with just pethidine. This copy has been taken from our unit. Looking forward to your reply. Barbara Stokes, Parkes NSW Hope this helped! Jo (RM) *due today!*
Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: Breastfeeding
Interesting, Carina and Denise, I feel breastfeeding advocates have been "hoisted on their own pettard" - for so long we sold the message that breast is best. Not the obvious, that breast is normal; formula feeding is not, and some risks. Risks which we may choose to accept, or may have to accept. Unfortunately "guilt" has become a blunt instrument with which to bludgeon breastfeeding advocates, and prevent sensible discussion of the real issues. As Denise said, occasionally, like any other part of the body occasionally breasts don't work. My son and I have asthma. (I guess I "gave" it to him as part of our genetic heritage) Our lungs don't work properly.Some-times I supplement him with oxygen, and everyday we both take drugs. I don't feel guilty about that. With my first child (not the asthmatic one - he of course was fully breastfed til 6 mnths) I got into a complete pickle. Work, lack of sleep, difficulty adjusting to my new situation. I was easily "conned" into believing my breasts didn't work. The formula flowed freely. Unfortunately the breastmilk did not seem to do likewise. I scraped through - breastfeeding and artificial feeding. Subsequent children have taught me that my breasts worked fabulously - but I did not have a good idea of what "normal" was.(they taught me that, too) I recieved liberal lashings of poor information, until I managed to access the support of the Australian Breastfeeding Association I don't feel guilty about formula feeding. I did the best I could under the circumstances, which were trying to say the least. In my volunteer work as a breastfeeding counsellor and my professional work as an infant feeding consultant I work with women every day. Not all manage to breastfeed, despite all our efforts. Sometimes I don't know why. Some-times I do. We don't live in a culture where breastfeeding is normal and understood. However, I do believe women deserve the information that formula has risks, and encouragement and information to breastfeed. I dispense info on weaning, and work to promote breastfeeding as normal and to increase society's knowledge of breastfeeding. I help mothers as much as I can, understand why it didn't work for them, grieve for a time of life lost, reflect on their experience and enjoy their baby, and not feel guilty about the decision they made, or had to make. Barb - Original Message - From: Denise Fisher To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 5:32 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: Breastfeeding Hi CarinaYou've brought up some points that are good food for thought. It was a tragedy the day that milk banks were closed in Australia due to the scare with HIV, despite pasteurisation easily killing HIV (I wonder why sperm banks weren't also closed??). I note that a new bank is opening in WA and perhaps one in Melbourne. I wish them success.The incidence of physiological inability to breastfeed is somewhere in the order of 1 - 2 per 100 women. I don't believe with an incidence at this level that it warrants we guard everything we say to every woman. And then there's that really fascinating topic of 'guilt'. Can you induce guilt in someone? - maybe, if they really are guilty. However I don't feel guilty about something I have no control over. For example if I had no uterus I wouldn't feel guilty that I'm not adding to Australia's population, no matter how much Mr Howard exhorts me to. If I had no breasts or my breasts were not functional I would not feel guilty that I'm not breastfeeding regardless of how many people told me it was best.My opinion is that some health professionals don't know how to support women to breastfeed adequately and in covering their own feelings of guilt about this they 'pretend' that it's the mother they are trying not to make feel guilty.To give you lots of different opinions on guilt and breastfeeding do a google search using those terms.Have funDeniseAt 03:23 PM 18/05/2005 +0930, you wrote: Some food for thought,What about the women who simply cannot breastfeed and cannot produce enough milk The wet nurse is still in existence in many tribal cultures where formulary has no influence. Its very easy to be passionate about something and sing its praises when you have experienced success, but what about those women who dont succeed despite months of trying and perseverance. I, like all many midwives of course believe that breast is best and should be promoted as optimum nutrition for a baby but sometimes I believe that in trying to get this message across we need to be careful not to make other women lose their confidence ands fall into the motherhood guilt trap. Carina ***Denise Fisher, MMP, BN, IBCLCHealth e-Learninghttp://www.health-e-learning.com[EMAIL
RE: [ozmidwifery] Hello from a HypnoBirthing practioner
Title: Bericht Hello Marietje, I am a flemisch homebirth midwife and I live close to the border of the Netherlands. I would be delighted to have you spend some time with us. I am very interested to hear some more about hypnobirthing. You can contact me on l[EMAIL PROTECTED] Greetings Lieve Lieve Huybrechts vroedvrouw 0477/740853 -Oorspronkelijk bericht-Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Namens Marietje StuckeyVerzonden: woensdag 18 mei 2005 9:57Aan: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auOnderwerp: [ozmidwifery] Hello from a HypnoBirthing practioner Hi all I have been reading all the interesting postings and find them most informative. I am a HypnoBirthing practioner in Melbourne, Next week on the 27th of May I am flying to the Nederlands and would like to spend sometime with a midwife . I will be in Holland for 5 weeks. I have been in contact with Beatrijs Smulders who give me a couple of e-mail contactsbut with computer breakdowns I have not been successful in arranging anything. I see this trip overseas as a fantastic opportunity to broaden my knowledge in the birthing area. If anyone reading this could beof any assist in regards with contacts in Holland please contact me ASAP. Thanks very much for taking the time to read this. Hope to hear from someone soon. Happy Birthing Marietje Stcukey --No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.12 - Release Date: 17/05/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.12 - Release Date: 17/05/2005
Re: [ozmidwifery] Evening primrose oil to pr temps.
I can not believe there are units still doing rectal temperatures on well babies 22 years ago there was an astounding amount of research on the risks (anal sphinter trauma hyperstimualation when using a rigid thermometer) and misinformation about the benefit of this route and that was before Tympanic option was available Tympanics also have operator and machine failure rates which can be heithened with mec vernix in the ears If a child is this cold it should require at least a soft probe? Where is the informed consent in doing this invasive procedure on babies Sounds like so much more is needed to be done to keep sick and well babies Skin to skin with its parent . DeniseHynd Let us support one another, not just in philosophy but in action, for the sake of freedom for all women to choose exactly how and by whom, if by anyone, our bodies will be handled. - Linda Hes - Original Message - From: Miriam Hannay [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 8:12 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Evening primrose oil to pr temps. hi there, it is standard practice in our scbu, for all admissions. i have questioned this practice several times and the answer is usually that 'its necessary to establish patency'!?! had a babe come from theatre last week covered in mec and the midwife asks me to do a pr temp! i question again, and she backtracks saying 'its the best way of establishing accurate core temp'. this is so clearly not evidence based practice - i find it so frustrating! i'm thinking of doing a lit review on it for uni and would be interested in other people's opinions/experiences/information. regards miriam 2nd year bmid fusa Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.6 - Release Date: 6/05/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] FW: Breastfeeding
Dear Barb Your thoughtful discussion of he b'feeding issue is well-said and accords with what other LCs say I think. I am not one to argue for simplistic and individualistic interpretations of women's 'choice', eg to have elective caesars or to bottle feed, because all 'choices' are socially shaped. But I think it is very inappropriate and self-defeating to get on the moral high horse and neglect the obstacles that women currently face in what Pam Carter's called the 'working conditions' of breastfeeding. It is not necessary to attack a journalist personally nor is it 'women-centred' to accuse people of making choices we disagree with when we do not know what their personal story or situation is. Fiona Giles' Fresh Milk or Virginia Schmied's work show very well the variety of experiences and dilemmas women face, including cultural attitudes to the body and pressures from partners, mothers etc. Surely we should be focusing on the structural constraints such as poor birthing and postnatal care, lack of maternity leave and childcare etc that influence decision-making! Many women are simply stuck in a lousy system and deserve understanding and respect rather than condemnation. As that wonderful wise woman Sheila Kitzinger wrote in the Preface to my book Our Bodies Our Babies, 'If individual women are to find a voice, wherever they are coming from, their individual choices are valid. Those of us who find ourselves representing the birth (and breastfeeding) movement need to listen and learn. Only then can we understand.' As she goes on to points out , some women seek epidurals because they have suffered sexual or other abuse, and who are we to judge? Also, pertinent to Justine's recent comment, are they then to be denied midwifery care? Surely not! For myself, I think we need some humility here and, as Barb recognises, understand diversity of needs and circumstances. As Sheila K also comments, we face a tension between on the one hand 'helping individual women, enabling them to have the a positive experience, whatever kind of birth it is. On the other, we are working to change the system... to respect the normal physiology of birth and lactation. ' I don't think being 'Nipple Nazis', as people say, is very productive. Maybe we can share around the guilt of not yet making the world a fit place for mothers! In struggle Kerreen mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Denise Fisher Sent: Wed 18/05/2005 5:32 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: Breastfeeding Hi Carina You've brought up some points that are good food for thought. It was a tragedy the day that milk banks were closed in Australia due to the scare with HIV, despite pasteurisation easily killing HIV (I wonder why sperm banks weren't also closed??). I note that a new bank is opening in WA and perhaps one in Melbourne. I wish them success. The incidence of physiological inability to breastfeed is somewhere in the order of 1 - 2 per 100 women. I don't believe with an incidence at this level that it warrants we guard everything we say to every woman. And then there's that really fascinating topic of 'guilt'. Can you induce guilt in someone? - maybe, if they really are guilty. However I don't feel guilty about something I have no control over. For example if I had no uterus I wouldn't feel guilty that I'm not adding to Australia's population, no matter how much Mr Howard exhorts me to. If I had no breasts or my breasts were not functional I would not feel guilty that I'm not breastfeeding regardless of how many people told me it was best. My opinion is that some health professionals don't know how to support women to breastfeed adequately and in covering their own feelings of guilt about this they 'pretend' that it's the mother they are trying not to make feel guilty. To give you lots of different opinions on guilt and breastfeeding do a google search using those terms. Have fun Denise At 03:23 PM 18/05/2005 +0930, you wrote: Some food for thought, What about the women who simply cannot breastfeed and cannot produce enough milk The wet nurse is still in existence in many tribal cultures where formulary has no influence. It's very easy to be passionate about something and sing it's praises when you have experienced success, but what about those women who don't succeed despite months of trying and perseverance. I, like all many midwives of course believe that breast is best and should be promoted as optimum nutrition for a baby but sometimes I believe that in trying to get this message across we need to be careful not to make other women lose their 'confidence ands fall into the motherhood guilt trap'. Carina *** Denise Fisher, MMP, BN, IBCLC Health e-Learning
Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: Breastfeeding
Dear Carina The World Health Organisation and most research shows that the problems that most woemn in our culture have are down to misinformation and disempowering management. That is why their is the Baby Freindly Hospital Initiative ! However anyone who has had expereince or an understanding ofcontiuity of care by a known midwife knows that what is even more effective support of the overwhelming majority (98%+) of women's iniate abilities to nurture their babies as they need including breastfeeding after brithing them the way that they need is for the woman to have this care!! That is why Iwho was aconvenor of BFHI in WA am now actively involved with Maternity Coalition to give women theopportunity to choose this model of maternity care. The current problems of birthing , breastfeeding and mothering are a reflection of the fragmented medical model of care imposed on them!! Denise Hynd "Let us support one another, not just in philosophy but in action, for the sake of freedom for all women to choose exactly how and by whom, if by anyone, our bodies will be handled." Linda Hes - Original Message - From: Denise Fisher To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 3:32 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: Breastfeeding Hi CarinaYou've brought up some points that are good food for thought. It was a tragedy the day that milk banks were closed in Australia due to the scare with HIV, despite pasteurisation easily killing HIV (I wonder why sperm banks weren't also closed??). I note that a new bank is opening in WA and perhaps one in Melbourne. I wish them success.The incidence of physiological inability to breastfeed is somewhere in the order of 1 - 2 per 100 women. I don't believe with an incidence at this level that it warrants we guard everything we say to every woman. And then there's that really fascinating topic of 'guilt'. Can you induce guilt in someone? - maybe, if they really are guilty. However I don't feel guilty about something I have no control over. For example if I had no uterus I wouldn't feel guilty that I'm not adding to Australia's population, no matter how much Mr Howard exhorts me to. If I had no breasts or my breasts were not functional I would not feel guilty that I'm not breastfeeding regardless of how many people told me it was best.My opinion is that some health professionals don't know how to support women to breastfeed adequately and in covering their own feelings of guilt about this they 'pretend' that it's the mother they are trying not to make feel guilty.To give you lots of different opinions on guilt and breastfeeding do a google search using those terms.Have funDeniseAt 03:23 PM 18/05/2005 +0930, you wrote: Some food for thought,What about the women who simply cannot breastfeed and cannot produce enough milk The wet nurse is still in existence in many tribal cultures where formulary has no influence. Its very easy to be passionate about something and sing its praises when you have experienced success, but what about those women who dont succeed despite months of trying and perseverance. I, like all many midwives of course believe that breast is best and should be promoted as optimum nutrition for a baby but sometimes I believe that in trying to get this message across we need to be careful not to make other women lose their confidence ands fall into the motherhood guilt trap. Carina ***Denise Fisher, MMP, BN, IBCLCHealth e-Learninghttp://www.health-e-learning.com[EMAIL PROTECTED] Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.6 - Release Date: 6/05/2005
Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: Breastfeeding
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: Breastfeeding Dear Denise, My point is that there is a group of women who do not fit this mould and that it is dangerous to assume that women who are having problems with breastfeeding are doing so because of the fragmented medical model of maternity care. I can see how some problems are exacerbated by the fragmented care model, but to make generalised statements is dangerous. I am also well aware of the Baby Friendly Hospital Initiative and am in full support. Carina Brown On 18/5/05 8:13 PM, Denise Hynd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Carina The World Health Organisation and most research shows that the problems that most woemn in our culture have are down to misinformation and disempowering management. That is why their is the Baby Freindly Hospital Initiative ! However anyone who has had expereince or an understanding of contiuity of care by a known midwife knows that what is even more effective support of the overwhelming majority (98%+) of women's iniate abilities to nurture their babies as they need including breastfeeding after brithing them the way that they need is for the woman to have this care!! That is why I who was a convenor of BFHI in WA am now actively involved with Maternity Coalition to give women the opportunity to choose this model of maternity care. The current problems of birthing , breastfeeding and mothering are a reflection of the fragmented medical model of care imposed on them!! Denise Hynd Let us support one another, not just in philosophy but in action, for the sake of freedom for all women to choose exactly how and by whom, if by anyone, our bodies will be handled. Linda Hes - Original Message - From: Denise Fisher mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 3:32 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: Breastfeeding Hi Carina You've brought up some points that are good food for thought. It was a tragedy the day that milk banks were closed in Australia due to the scare with HIV, despite pasteurisation easily killing HIV (I wonder why sperm banks weren't also closed??). I note that a new bank is opening in WA and perhaps one in Melbourne. I wish them success. The incidence of physiological inability to breastfeed is somewhere in the order of 1 - 2 per 100 women. I don't believe with an incidence at this level that it warrants we guard everything we say to every woman. And then there's that really fascinating topic of 'guilt'. Can you induce guilt in someone? - maybe, if they really are guilty. However I don't feel guilty about something I have no control over. For example if I had no uterus I wouldn't feel guilty that I'm not adding to Australia's population, no matter how much Mr Howard exhorts me to. If I had no breasts or my breasts were not functional I would not feel guilty that I'm not breastfeeding regardless of how many people told me it was best. My opinion is that some health professionals don't know how to support women to breastfeed adequately and in covering their own feelings of guilt about this they 'pretend' that it's the mother they are trying not to make feel guilty. To give you lots of different opinions on guilt and breastfeeding do a google search using those terms. Have fun Denise At 03:23 PM 18/05/2005 +0930, you wrote: Some food for thought, What about the women who simply cannot breastfeed and cannot produce enough milk The wet nurse is still in existence in many tribal cultures where formulary has no influence. Its very easy to be passionate about something and sing its praises when you have experienced success, but what about those women who dont succeed despite months of trying and perseverance. I, like all many midwives of course believe that breast is best and should be promoted as optimum nutrition for a baby but sometimes I believe that in trying to get this message across we need to be careful not to make other women lose their confidence ands fall into the motherhood guilt trap. Carina *** Denise Fisher, MMP, BN, IBCLC Health e-Learning http://www.health-e-learning.com http://www.health-e-learning.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.6 - Release Date: 6/05/2005
Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: Breastfeeding
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: Breastfeeding Thank you Kerreen and Carina. It seems to me that despite the BFHI about 10 to 20 % of women within our maternity system will and do have problems with breastfeeding. I appreciate that only 1 % may have truly insurmountable difficulties neverthless these other women are a significant part of our population and their situation must be respected and supported. For some of us women, breastfeeding is ridiculously easy, even a deliciously sensual experience but, dare I say this, this doesn't make us(or at least me) better mothers, just as for some of us, despite the culture, birth is easy or at least some of us would birth normally upside down in the back of a bus: does this make us better mothers? I think not. It is simply just how some of us are and incidently just how some of us are not. Isn't it clear that forcing agendas down anyones throat creates a back lash? Aren't we in the middle of one? There are miriad reasons for all of this not the least of which is our culture but also genetics, physiology, socialisation to name a few. I do get truly tired of the habit of blaming women, categorising them for being "dramatic" etc., in a general way when they a simply part of a system they have been conditioned to accept. Believe it or not not all of us were conditioned this way and so for some of us it is far easier to step outside the system, in fact for some of us it is the only way we can be!! Again it doesn't make us better only different and adds to the richness and diversity of the palate as well as the menu of skills we must possess as midwives to facillitate as much breastfeeding success as possible. marilyn - Original Message - From: Carina To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 4:20 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: Breastfeeding Dear Denise,My point is that there is a group of women who do not fit this mould and that it is dangerous to assume that women who are having problems with breastfeeding are doing so because of the fragmented medical model of maternity care. I can see how some problems are exacerbated by the fragmented care model, but to make generalised statements is dangerous. I am also well aware of the Baby Friendly Hospital Initiative and am in full support.Carina BrownOn 18/5/05 8:13 PM, "Denise Hynd" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear CarinaThe World Health Organisation and most research shows that the problems that most woemn in our culture have are down to misinformation and disempowering management.That is why their is the Baby Freindly Hospital Initiative !However anyone who has had expereince or an understanding of contiuity of care by a known midwife knows that what is even more effective support of the overwhelming majority (98%+) of women's iniate abilities to nurture their babies as they need including breastfeeding after brithing them the way that they need is for the woman to have this care!!That is why I who was a convenor of BFHI in WA am now actively involved with Maternity Coalition to give women the opportunity to choose this model of maternity care.The current problems of birthing , breastfeeding and mothering are a reflection of the fragmented medical model of care imposed on them!!Denise Hynd"Let us support one another, not just in philosophy but in action, for the sake of freedom for all women to choose exactly how and by whom, if by anyone, our bodies will be handled." Linda Hes - Original Message - From: Denise Fisher mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 3:32 PMSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: BreastfeedingHi CarinaYou've brought up some points that are good food for thought. It was a tragedy the day that milk banks were closed in Australia due to the scare with HIV, despite pasteurisation easily killing HIV (I wonder why sperm banks weren't also closed??). I note that a new bank is opening in WA and perhaps one in Melbourne. I wish them success.The incidence of physiological inability to breastfeed is somewhere in the order of 1 - 2 per 100 women. I don't believe with an incidence at this level that it warrants we guard everything we say to every woman. And then there's that really fascinating topic of 'guilt'. Can you induce guilt in someone? - maybe, if they really are guilty. However I don't feel guilty about something I have no control over. For example if I had no uterus I wouldn't feel guilty that I'm not adding to Australia's population, no matter how much Mr Howard exhorts me to. If I had no breasts or my breasts were not functional I would not feel guilty that I'm not breastfeeding regardless of how many people told me it
Re: [ozmidwifery] temperature
Hi , We have not done rectal temps on babies or infants for more than 18 years. About that time we got terumo axilla thermometers and have continued to use them They are very accurate .I did some comparisions when we first got them between the axilla thermometers and rectal temps and found they were almost identical so have never done a rectal temp since .The Terumo thermometers calculate core temp and you wil find they actually go up and then drop back to the babies core temp Lyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/18/05 10:35 am hi all there is a systematic review on the topic of rectal vs infrared ear temps in children on cochrane database the conclusion is as follows: 'The authors concluded that although the mean differences between rectal temperature measurements and ear temperature measurements were small, the wide CIs mean that ear temperature is not a good approximation of rectal temperature. They suggest that when body temperature needs to be measured with precision, infrared ear thermometry should not be used in preference to rectal measurement, which is the established method' personally i think its a very invasive and (for older children) embarassing thing for them to go through and as it says above should be done when the temp needs to be known with precision ie when they are very ill, not just as a routine measure. im not sure why they didnt include axilla temps.. love emily - Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: Breastfeeding
Hi Barb, This was very good Thanks Lyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/18/05 6:44 pm Interesting, Carina and Denise, I feel breastfeeding advocates have been hoisted on their own pettard - for so long we sold the message that breast is best. Not the obvious, that breast is normal; formula feeding is not, and some risks. Risks which we may choose to accept, or may have to accept. Unfortunately guilt has become a blunt instrument with which to bludgeon breastfeeding advocates, and prevent sensible discussion of the real issues. As Denise said, occasionally, like any other part of the body occasionally breasts don't work. My son and I have asthma. (I guess I gave it to him as part of our genetic heritage) Our lungs don't work properly. Some-times I supplement him with oxygen, and everyday we both take drugs. I don't feel guilty about that. With my first child (not the asthmatic one - he of course was fully breastfed til 6 mnths) I got into a complete pickle. Work, lack of sleep, difficulty adjusting to my new situation. I was easily conned into believing my breasts didn't work. The formula flowed freely. Unfortunately the breastmilk did not seem to do likewise. I scraped through - breastfeeding and artificial feeding. Subsequent children have taught me that my breasts worked fabulously - but I did not have a good idea of what normal was.(they taught me that, too) I recieved liberal lashings of poor information, until I managed to access the support of the Australian Breastfeeding Association I don't feel guilty about formula feeding. I did the best I could under the circumstances, which were trying to say the least. In my volunteer work as a breastfeeding counsellor and my professional work as an infant feeding consultant I work with women every day. Not all manage to breastfeed, despite all our efforts. Sometimes I don't know why. Some-times I do. We don't live in a culture where breastfeeding is normal and understood. However, I do believe women deserve the information that formula has risks, and encouragement and information to breastfeed. I dispense info on weaning, and work to promote breastfeeding as normal and to increase society's knowledge of breastfeeding. I help mothers as much as I can, understand why it didn't work for them, grieve for a time of life lost, reflect on their experience and enjoy their baby, and not feel guilty about the decision they made, or had to make. Barb - Original Message - From: Denise Fisher To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 5:32 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: Breastfeeding Hi Carina You've brought up some points that are good food for thought. It was a tragedy the day that milk banks were closed in Australia due to the scare with HIV, despite pasteurisation easily killing HIV (I wonder why sperm banks weren't also closed??). I note that a new bank is opening in WA and perhaps one in Melbourne. I wish them success. The incidence of physiological inability to breastfeed is somewhere in the order of 1 - 2 per 100 women. I don't believe with an incidence at this level that it warrants we guard everything we say to every woman. And then there's that really fascinating topic of 'guilt'. Can you induce guilt in someone? - maybe, if they really are guilty. However I don't feel guilty about something I have no control over. For example if I had no uterus I wouldn't feel guilty that I'm not adding to Australia's population, no matter how much Mr Howard exhorts me to. If I had no breasts or my breasts were not functional I would not feel guilty that I'm not breastfeeding regardless of how many people told me it was best. My opinion is that some health professionals don't know how to support women to breastfeed adequately and in covering their own feelings of guilt about this they 'pretend' that it's the mother they are trying not to make feel guilty. To give you lots of different opinions on guilt and breastfeeding do a google search using those terms. Have fun Denise At 03:23 PM 18/05/2005 +0930, you wrote: Some food for thought, What about the women who simply cannot breastfeed and cannot produce enough milk The wet nurse is still in existence in many tribal cultures where formulary has no influence. It's very easy to be passionate about something and sing it's praises when you have experienced success, but what about those women who don't succeed despite months of trying and perseverance. I, like all many midwives of course believe that breast is best and should be promoted as optimum nutrition for a baby but sometimes I believe that in trying to get this message across we need to be careful not to make other women lose their 'confidence ands fall into the motherhood guilt trap'. Carina *** Denise Fisher, MMP, BN, IBCLC Health e-Learning http://www.health-e-learning.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [ozmidwifery] Epidural top-up Policy
I'm so impressed Sally. What a fantastic result. Jayne - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 4:13 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Epidural top-up Policy Unfortunately this is what women want/expect even. (see thread on dramatic women) however, out here at Casey we don't offer epidurals as a first line of pain relief at all, consequently out of the 54 births we have so far, have had no epidurals at all...funnily enough, these women managed well with very little pain relief at all, just good midwifery care, support and encouragement. Sally Justine Caines [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Gee, why should midwives have ANYTHING to do with epidurals?? I thought midwifery was about well women and normal childbirth. Shouldn#8217;t this be left to the Drs! Perhaps if midwives said this we would see a change in practice! Can women in Parkes access deep warm water for pain relief? I am astounded that the majority of women can access Pethidine and an epidural and yet a tiny majority have access to deep water (sorry showers don#8217;t count!) Natural pain relief, that#8217;s the domian of midwifery JC Justine Caines National President nbsp;Maternity Coalition Inc PO Box 105 MERRIWA nbsp;NSW nbsp;2329 Ph: (02) 65482248 Fax: (02)65482902 Mob: 0408 210273 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.maternitycoalition.org.au ___ NOCC, http://nocc.sourceforge.net -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Epidural top-up Policy
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] Epidural top-up Policy Justine, just a note to say I was looking for policies about epidural top-ups. This does not mean I as a midwife use them unless of extreme need. We do use deep water though mothers at home dont have access due to water shortage. My last 2 births have been fantastic outcomes for mums due to my support and belief in creative movement to achieve normal childbirth. We certainly dont leave policies to the doctors, they need to be evidence based best practice! This helps us as well! Barbara, Parkes -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Justine Caines Sent: Wednesday, 18 May 2005 12:42 PM To: OzMid List Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Epidural top-up Policy Gee, why should midwives have ANYTHING to do with epidurals?? I thought midwifery was about well women and normal childbirth. Shouldnt this be left to the Drs! Perhaps if midwives said this we would see a change in practice! Can women in Parkes access deep warm water for pain relief? I am astounded that the majority of women can access Pethidine and an epidural and yet a tiny majority have access to deep water (sorry showers dont count!) Natural pain relief, thats the domian of midwifery JC Justine Caines National President Maternity Coalition Inc PO Box 105 MERRIWA NSW 2329 Ph: (02) 65482248 Fax: (02)65482902 Mob: 0408 210273 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.maternitycoalition.org.au
Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: Breastfeeding
As a consumer I don't know if I should butt into this conversation, but I will anyway. I breastfeed my daughter for 2.5 years (and weaned her before either of us was completely ready for fertility reasons). The first 8 weeks of breastfeeding was utter hell, the next 8 was not great either but definitely better, over the two years I experienced grazes, cracks (polite term for gaping wounds), vaso spasm (which I still get now in my luteal phase but not as badly), blocked ducts, engorgement, 7 or 8 rounds of mastitis, cellulitis, over supply, under supply, and that is what I can remember. I wought help from midwives, IBCLS, GPs and called the ABA. I have to say that I have very little faith in the advice most people are getting when there are real problems with breasfeeding. It seems to me that midwives and IBCLCs all dish out the same not very useful advice If it hurts the latch is wrong, fix the latch and it won't hurt. How anyone thinks that damaged nipples that hurt non stop 24 hours a day will stop hurting because a baby starts sucking on them is beyond me. Poor attachment will increase the damage and good attachment will in time allow it to heal but good attachment WILL NOT stop damaged nipples from hurting and if this is what you tell women they won't believe anything else you say has credibility either. And when nipple/breast pain problems go beyond attachment or vasospasm there is virtually no advice available at all. In the end, of the various breastfeeding advisors that I saw my own GP (who is also and IBCLC) was the only one prepared to say to me her mouth is small small, your breast is large, your areolas are huge and fat, your nipples are small and flat and extremely fiborous. You are doing all you can attachment wise and I can see that it still hurts and I can tell you that it will probably keep hurting for a while. You just have to wait until your nipples slowly and painfully stretch and her mouth gets bigger as she grows. If you persist it will get better around 8 weeks. It got better at eight weeks and three days. This advice was so much more helpful than the You just need to attach her right oh look at that it's perfect... oh why are you crying in pain?... have you tried the football hold? and here is some lahnsino that I got from everyone else. I paid a lot of attention to the breastfeeding women around me when I was breastfeeding and not many had the sort of problems I did, I heard only one story worse than mine and a only a few equally as bad but neither did I hear of many at the other end of the spectrum. I only ever met one woman who put her newborn first child straight to the breast and had never a single breastfeeding problem. In between were the women with minor problems through to those with truly dreadful stories and very few of them seemed to be getting great advice. My dear friend had her second child two weeks ago and the visiting midwife (from the RPA) tried to tell her to stop demand feeding, that she was feeding way to much, should feed only every 3-4 hours and that she must sleep more or she was in danger of hurting herself and hurting her baby (she is an experienced breastfeeder with great family support and knew this advice was laugable). In the end my friend agreed with everything she said just t! o get her out the door and make sure she never came back. So now she is trying to figure out on her own how to deal with a sever over supply problem and a late developing attachment problem Given she has over 2 years breastfeeding experience I know that she will sort it out but she should not have to do it on her own. I am sure that most australian women give up due to poor through to appalling advice from health professionals, possibly combined with lack of support from their families/partners not due to a physical inability to feed. sorry for rambling, my fertility treatment has gone seriously wrong in the last fortnight so my hormones are whacked and interfering with my concentration but I really wanted to say something... cheers Jo At 5:32 PM +1000 18/5/05, Denise Fisher wrote: Hi Carina You've brought up some points that are good food for thought. It was a tragedy the day that milk banks were closed in Australia due to the scare with HIV, despite pasteurisation easily killing HIV (I wonder why sperm banks weren't also closed??). I note that a new bank is opening in WA and perhaps one in Melbourne. I wish them success. The incidence of physiological inability to breastfeed is somewhere in the order of 1 - 2 per 100 women. I don't believe with an incidence at this level that it warrants we guard everything we say to every woman. And then there's that really fascinating topic of 'guilt'. Can you induce guilt in someone? - maybe, if they really are guilty. However I don't feel guilty about something I have no control over. For example if I had no uterus I wouldn't feel guilty that I'm not adding
Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: Breastfeeding
Thank you Jo for your email - these are definitely not the way we want
women's experiences to occur, and I'm sure that some of your experiences
were preventable (had the knowledge been available to you and your
advisors), but maybe not all. Your commitment to your self and your child
is wonderful.
When I first started working in my capacity as a Lactation Consultant (15
years ago), and up until the last 3 to 4 years, the majority of problems
that I saw were very simply fixed by positioning. ie. back then that's
what the midwives and child health nurses were pretty lousy at. Since
then things have changed! The problems I'm seeing now are much more
complex, suggesting that the basics are being addressed much better. (By
most, not all X;{) BUT, there's still not one conference I've come away
from in all those years that I haven't learnt something new. Our
breastfeeding knowledge is still in its infancy.
Breastfeeding has been very much the ugly step-sister of birthing - every
other aspect was researched and examined closely and has been for many
years, probably because of the high medical involvement in it.
Breastfeeding was ignored so badly that during the 50's and 60's the
breastfeeding rates were so low that a whole generation of
mothers/sisters/aunties/grandmas AND midwives knowledge of breastfeeding
was lost. This has been a very difficult situation to come back
from.
Research into breastfeeding is very recent. There are still huge gaps in
our knowledge. Trying to disseminate what knowledge we do have is
laborious, particularly when so many people (general population and
health care population) dismiss it as just a 50:50 choice for how a
mother feels like she might want to feed. Infant formula carries VERY
significant risks of ill health and sub-optimal development for ALL
babies who are fed it. We can't bury our heads in the sand and say this
isn't true - it is!! It's the best alternative we have when
breastmilk is not available, but that doesn't deny the facts.
Breastfeeding is normal. Major breastfeeding difficulties in a majority
of mothers is NOT normal. Let's support and encourage our researchers,
and make sure we update ourselves at least every year so that we are
always giving mothers the best knowledge available at the time.
Denise
At 11:32 AM 19/05/2005 +1000, you wrote:
As a consumer I don't know if I
should butt into this conversation, but I will anyway. I breastfeed my
daughter for 2.5 years (and weaned her before either of us was completely
ready for fertility reasons). The first 8 weeks of breastfeeding was
utter hell, the next 8 was not great either but definitely better, over
the two years I experienced grazes, cracks (polite term for gaping
wounds), vaso spasm (which I still get now in my luteal phase but not as
badly), blocked ducts, engorgement, 7 or 8 rounds of mastitis,
cellulitis, over supply, under supply, and that is what I can remember. I
wought help from midwives, IBCLS, GPs and called the ABA. I have to say
that I have very little faith in the advice most people are getting when
there are real problems with breasfeeding.
It seems to me that midwives and IBCLCs all dish out the same not very
useful advice If it hurts the latch is wrong, fix the latch and it
won't hurt. How anyone thinks that damaged nipples that hurt non
stop 24 hours a day will stop hurting because a baby starts sucking on
them is beyond me. Poor attachment will increase the damage and good
attachment will in time allow it to heal but good attachment WILL NOT
stop damaged nipples from hurting and if this is what you tell women they
won't believe anything else you say has credibility either.
And when nipple/breast pain problems go beyond attachment or vasospasm
there is virtually no advice available at all. In the end, of the various
breastfeeding advisors that I saw my own GP (who is also and IBCLC) was
the only one prepared to say to me her mouth is small small, your
breast is large, your areolas are huge and fat, your nipples are small
and flat and extremely fiborous. You are doing all you can attachment
wise and I can see that it still hurts and I can tell you that it will
probably keep hurting for a while. You just have to wait until your
nipples slowly and painfully stretch and her mouth gets bigger as she
grows. If you persist it will get better around 8 weeks. It got
better at eight weeks and three days. This advice was so much more
helpful than the You just need to attach her right oh look at
that it's perfect... oh why are you crying in pain?... have you tried the
football hold? and here is some lahnsino that I got from
everyone else.
I paid a lot of attention to the breastfeeding women around me when I was
breastfeeding and not many had the sort of problems I did, I heard only
one story worse than mine and a only a few equally as bad but neither did
I hear of many at the other end of the spectrum. I only ever met one
woman who put her newborn first child straight to the breast and had
FW: [ozmidwifery] Epidural top-up Policy
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] Epidural top-up Policy Dear List With all due respect Justine, who would you suggests looks after the women who as was previously mentioned requests an epidural, or the woman whose obstetric situation makes an epidural appropriate? The doctors maybe?? Doubt it! Yep midwifery is all that you mention, but its not just that. Women who experience abnormal labour etc are just as entitled to midwifery care as all the others! Whether we like it or not, some women do not wish to experience the pain of childbirth and who are we to judge them on that! Not all women have an easy time during labour even despite the best one on one midwife care! As a midwife working with women who sometimes choose this option I like to try and make it as normal as possible and give them the best chance of a normal birth, thats why midwives need to have something to do with epidurals! Lisa -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Justine Caines Sent: Wednesday, 18 May 2005 12:42 PM To: OzMid List Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Epidural top-up Policy Gee, why should midwives have ANYTHING to do with epidurals?? I thought midwifery was about well women and normal childbirth. Shouldnt this be left to the Drs! Perhaps if midwives said this we would see a change in practice! Can women in Parkes access deep warm water for pain relief? I am astounded that the majority of women can access Pethidine and an epidural and yet a tiny majority have access to deep water (sorry showers dont count!) Natural pain relief, thats the domian of midwifery JC Justine Caines National President Maternity Coalition Inc PO Box 105 MERRIWA NSW 2329 Ph: (02) 65482248 Fax: (02)65482902 Mob: 0408 210273 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.maternitycoalition.org.au
