Re: [PD] Number atom box limits overstepped

[William Huston]

Joao,

IIRC, some objects in pd-extended, like hsliders,
would always respect the limits whether dialed-in, or
when coming from an input.

When i finally switched to vanilla, I noticed the same thing,
limits were not respected on the inputs, and a lot of my patches broke.

I don't know whether the "sensible" behavior was ever in the
mainline branch, or only in -extended.

It would be nice if we could request the sensible behavior in a PD patch.
I know it's always hard to change the behavior of an object w/o breaking
compatibility with older patches.

But it would be nice to be able allow a checkbox that says
"enforce limits on inputs" (which is the sensible thing).

BH



On Thu, May 11, 2023 at 3:19 AM João Pais  wrote:

> Hello list,
>
> after all this time, I just noticed something which I'm not sure if it
> was always like that or it changed without me noticing it: in atom boxes
> one can define the lower/upper limits, which work when dragging with the
> mouse, but don't work when inputting a number or sending a message - the
> numbers go further. Since usually these limits are there to make sure
> that unwanted information doesn't go further, wouldn't it make sense to
> make those limits work on all cases?
>
> For what it's worth, I checked on Max and that's the behaviour there. It
> seems strange to say "here are the limits, but in this and that
> situation they're ignored".
>
> Best,
>
> Joao
>
>
>
>
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Re: [PD] 2 bugs and a feature request, FYI

[William Huston]

 On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 10:06 AM IOhannes m zmoelnig 
wrote:

>
> > - *tabwrite should act sensibly upon out of bound address #1281*
> > https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/1281
>
> as explained in the issue, this is by design.
> if you hate it, just use [moses] to filter out the out-of-bound indices.
>

It seems quite unexpected behavior, but yes I can do range checking.
And agree w/Alex this behavior should be documented.


>
> > - *Feature Request: allow a [clone] instance to know the total
> number of
> > instances #1279*
> > https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/1279
>
> i was under the impression, that in the end everybody agreed that this
> feature doesn't buy us anything.
>

Well, I don't think everyone did agree.


> [clone -n foo 20] takes the same number of chars as [clone foo 20 20]
> and needs more brain power to parse ("what was that '-n' flag for again?").
> the other solutions require much extra work both for the implementation
> of the feature and for using it, making it more likely to introduce bugs.
>

Well, I understand. But maybe there is a simple solution no one has dreamed
up.
I'd prefer to leave this one open, but the wrapper solution proposed by (??)
seems like that may work for my purposes.

BH
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Re: [PD] Is there a cost to wiggling GUI objects which aren't visible?

[William Huston]

Thanks Christof :)
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On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 11:47 PM Christof Ressi 
wrote:

>
> *1: Is there a CPU cost to wiggling GUI objects *
>
> *in abstractions or subpatches *
> *which aren't visible?*
>
> (Almost) none. The drawing functions check if the patch is visible, and if
> not, they don't send any drawing commands to the GUI app. So you only pay
> for the additional check.
>
>
> *2: Does the rate of the metro matter? i.e.,*
>
> *Is there a higher CPU cost for many moving GUI objects *
> *updated at 10ms vs 250 ms?*
>
> A high metro rate obviously implies a higher CPU load than a low metro
> rate. If the overall CPU load is significant depends on the actual action
> triggered by the metro.
>
> Christof
> On 05.03.2021 05:29, William Huston wrote:
>
> My 12 band Flanger/Panner thing was so awesome,
> I decided to convert it to [clone] to make it an N-Band thing.
> I'm getting close! ...
>
> But I am using a lot of wiggling GUI things inside the clone instances.
> Is this a problem?
>
> I have [hsl]s [vsl]s & blinking [bng]s,
> triggered by a global metro, sample interval (typically) 50 to 250 ms.
> *[metro 100] -> [s GlobalMetro]*
> placed at the top level
> ... all to help me see what is happening.
>
> I realize with [clone],
> there could be a big CPU cost here.
>
>
> *QUESTION: *
>
> *1: Is there a CPU cost to wiggling GUI objects *
>
> *in abstractions or subpatches *
> *which aren't visible?*
>
> *2: Does the rate of the metro matter? i.e.,*
>
> *Is there a higher CPU cost for many moving GUI objects *
> *updated at 10ms vs 250 ms?*
>
> Thanks,
> BH
>
> --
> William Huston:  williamahus...@gmail.com
> Binghamton NY
>
> *Public Service Mapping / Videography / Research / Education / Safety
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[PD] 2 bugs and a feature request, FYI

[William Huston]

FYI, BH

   - *"pd -help" produces no output, version 0.51-4 / Win7 #1280*
   https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/1280

   - *tabwrite should act sensibly upon out of bound address #1281*
   https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/1281

   - *Feature Request: allow a [clone] instance to know the total number of
   instances #1279*
   https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/1279


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[PD] Is there a cost to wiggling GUI objects which aren't visible?

[William Huston]

My 12 band Flanger/Panner thing was so awesome,
I decided to convert it to [clone] to make it an N-Band thing.
I'm getting close! ...

But I am using a lot of wiggling GUI things inside the clone instances.
Is this a problem?

I have [hsl]s [vsl]s & blinking [bng]s,
triggered by a global metro, sample interval (typically) 50 to 250 ms.
*[metro 100] -> [s GlobalMetro]*
placed at the top level
... all to help me see what is happening.

I realize with [clone],
there could be a big CPU cost here.


*QUESTION:*

*1: Is there a CPU cost to wiggling GUI objects *

*in abstractions or subpatches *
*which aren't visible?*

*2: Does the rate of the metro matter? i.e.,*

*Is there a higher CPU cost for many moving GUI objects *
*updated at 10ms vs 250 ms?*

Thanks,
BH

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Re: [PD] can a [clone] instance determine the total number of clones?

[William Huston]

On Wed, Mar 3, 2021, 3:37 PM Christof Ressi  wrote:

> I find myself passing in the number of total clones as a parameter.
>
> Yes, that's the only way.
>


Thanks Christof.

> I would like to avoid this if possible.
>
> Why? Is it only for cosmetic reasons, or for technical reasons?
>

Yes, mostly aesthetics. It seems redundant. It creates extra work. It would
simply my development workflow.

I'm communicating to my clones via arrays.
Each clone reads values from certain arrays, and writes values to other
arrays.

(In the output case, the clone instance number always corresponds to the
array element number, so I can see what each clone is doing. On the input
case, I'm reading at audio rate

So when I change the number of clones, I must change this in the 2 places
you've mentioned. I also have to resize my arrays, which requires changing
at least 1 message. (I imagine that I can probably change all my arrays
using a single compound message, but haven't tried this yet).

Ideally, it would be nice to change N in *one place*. I think this might be
possible if the first feature was implemented.

e.g., "If I am instance #1, and the number of instances has changed since
last time (stored in a global variable), then resize my arrays".

Yes, [clone foo 20 20] might look ugly, but it does the job. Personally, I
> haven't ever needed the number of cloned instances inside an instance...
>
I am still working on converting my 12 band flanger/auto panner to an
N-band Flanger using clone.

If we think about the clones spreading out and creating an equal phase
displacement across all N bands, and if we let S be the instance number,
then we can calculate the phase displacement for an arbitrary instance like
this:

PhaseDisplacement(S) = (2π / N) * S
So each clone needs to know the value of both S ($1) and N.

but if you need it frequently, you can make a feature request on GitHub.
>
I think I will, thanks!

BH


Christof
> On 03.03.2021 20:12, William Huston wrote:
>
> Is there a way for a clone instance to determine the total number of
> clones?
>
> Because often the behavior of a clone depends on its relative position
> within a chain of instances.
>
> "I am instance 12 of 100, therefore, I should behave like so"
>
> I find myself passing in the number of total clones as a parameter.
> I would like to avoid this if possible.
>
> Thanks,
> BH
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> William Huston:  williamahus...@gmail.com
> Binghamton NY
>
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[PD] can a [clone] instance determine the total number of clones?

[William Huston]

Is there a way for a clone instance to determine the total number of clones?

Because often the behavior of a clone depends on its relative position
within a chain of instances.

"I am instance 12 of 100, therefore, I should behave like so"

I find myself passing in the number of total clones as a parameter.
I would like to avoid this if possible.

Thanks,
BH










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[PD] Happy birthday, Miller!

[William Huston]

Dear Miller,

Patrick Pagano says on FB that it's you birthday.

Hope you have a happy day!
Thank you for the gift of PD.

PD has allowed my soul to sing.
PD has set my soul free.

BH, Binghamton NY, USA.
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[PD] any way to change the name of delay line used by [vd~] with message?

[William Huston]

Hi,

Is there any way to change the name of the delay line used by [vd~] with a
message?

Alternatively, I think it would be nice for PD to have a mechanism of
indirect reference. In this case,

   [vd~ $0-delay]

$0-delay refers to the name of the delay line.
What I'd like is a way to put a name like DELAY1 inside a variable which I
can set and change. So something like

 [vd~ ($0-DelayName)]

Where $0-DelayName is something I can set to DELAY1.

Are either of these possible?

The reason this has come up, is I'm trying to build an N-band flanger using
[clone]. As it stands, it seems like I have to hard-code the name of the
delay line read by each instance which is cloned. Since [clone] can only
use an abstraction, this means the instances have a different $0 context
than the parent patch.

So it seems I have to hard-code the name of the delay line used, which
means I can have only one of my N-band flangers per patch. That's probably
OK, but I would prefer not to use global variable names if possible.

Thanks!
BH









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Re: [PD] Korg nanokontrol studio ?

[William Huston]

On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 4:53 PM gnd  wrote:

>
> just fishing if anyone on here does have / is using nanokontrol studio
> with PD ?
>
> Im able to read midi data of the device, with some tweaking even in
> bluetooth mode, but i am not able to send midi back to it (to control
> button lights :(
>

On my nanoKontroi2, you have to go into the Korg Control Editor,
Under Control (tab) Common, set LED mode to external.

HTH,
BH


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Re: [PD] Delay circuit feedback DSP error-- only when signal path leaves abstraction

[William Huston]

That makes sense... Thank you Christof.


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On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 7:04 PM Christof Ressi 
wrote:

> > Yes, but I figured that when a connection is made, PD rebuilds a *flattened
> *graph,
>
> Pd *could* flatten the graph - but only if the subpatch is not reblocked,
> upsampled or overlapped. For consistency and simplicity it makes more sense
> to always treat subpatches as unit generators.
>
> Christof
> On 26.02.2020 00:52, William Huston wrote:
>
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:43 PM Christof Ressi 
> wrote:
>
>> I think you got it now :-)
>>
> Well that is very disappointing.
> I hope someone is collecting all of these idiosyncrasies and publishes
> a document for advanced PD programmers.
>
> I'm about 5 years into PD, and this surprises me.
>
>> In Pd every object is a black box (= the concept of the "unit
>> generator"), it doesn't care what's going on inside.
>>
> Yes, but I figured that when a connection is made, PD rebuilds a *flattened
> *graph,
> where only basic computational elements (atoms, builtin operators,
> externals, etc)
> exist... and any concept of a subpatch or abstraction is lost.
>
> Anyway, the workaround is simple enough. Thanks!
>
> BH
>
>
>> DSP computation starts from the outside. An object can be computed when
>> all its input dependencies have been computed. This will never be the case
>> when one of its inlets is in some way connected to one of its outlets - for
>> reason which are hopefully obvious.
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> The workaround is to use a pair of [s~]/[r~] or [throw~]/[catch~].
>>
>> Christof
>>
>
>
>
>
> --
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>
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>
>
>
>
>> On 26.02.2020 00:26, William Huston wrote:
>>
>> > in your example with the effect outside your abstraction you can
>> literally *see* the DSP loop, why are you surprised?
>>
>> You have got to be kidding me!!!
>>
>> So are you saying
>>
>> If I have an audio abstraction FOO,
>> with has 4 inlets~ and 4 outlets~.
>>
>> and I have another BAR,
>> with 2 inlets~ and 2 outlets~,
>>
>> and I try to connect a pair of FOO's outlets~ to BAR's inlets~,
>> and BAR's outlets to a pair of FOO's inlet's,
>> that *PD throws a "DSP loop error" whether or not there*
>> *is in fact an audio loop in the actual graph?*??
>>
>> And there is not a way to override this behavior??
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> William Huston:  williamahus...@gmail.com
>> Binghamton NY
>>
>> *Public Service Mapping / Videography / Research / Education / Safety
>> Advocacy*
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:01 PM Christof Ressi 
>> wrote:
>>
&g

Re: [PD] Delay circuit feedback DSP error-- only when signal path leaves abstraction

[William Huston]

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:43 PM Christof Ressi 
wrote:

> I think you got it now :-)
>
Well that is very disappointing.
I hope someone is collecting all of these idiosyncrasies and publishes
a document for advanced PD programmers.

I'm about 5 years into PD, and this surprises me.

> In Pd every object is a black box (= the concept of the "unit generator"),
> it doesn't care what's going on inside.
>
Yes, but I figured that when a connection is made, PD rebuilds a *flattened
*graph,
where only basic computational elements (atoms, builtin operators,
externals, etc)
exist... and any concept of a subpatch or abstraction is lost.

Anyway, the workaround is simple enough. Thanks!

BH


> DSP computation starts from the outside. An object can be computed when
> all its input dependencies have been computed. This will never be the case
> when one of its inlets is in some way connected to one of its outlets - for
> reason which are hopefully obvious.
>






> The workaround is to use a pair of [s~]/[r~] or [throw~]/[catch~].
>
> Christof
>




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> On 26.02.2020 00:26, William Huston wrote:
>
> > in your example with the effect outside your abstraction you can
> literally *see* the DSP loop, why are you surprised?
>
> You have got to be kidding me!!!
>
> So are you saying
>
> If I have an audio abstraction FOO,
> with has 4 inlets~ and 4 outlets~.
>
> and I have another BAR,
> with 2 inlets~ and 2 outlets~,
>
> and I try to connect a pair of FOO's outlets~ to BAR's inlets~,
> and BAR's outlets to a pair of FOO's inlet's,
> that *PD throws a "DSP loop error" whether or not there*
> *is in fact an audio loop in the actual graph?*??
>
> And there is not a way to override this behavior??
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> William Huston:  williamahus...@gmail.com
> Binghamton NY
>
> *Public Service Mapping / Videography / Research / Education / Safety
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>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:01 PM Christof Ressi 
> wrote:
>
>> A DSP loop is when signal connections form a loop. Pd can't look into
>> objects so it just treats them as black boxes. It's as simple as that.
>>
>> After all, in your example with the effect outside your abstraction you
>> can literally *see* the DSP loop, why are you surprised? And in your other
>> example with the effect inside your abstraction you don't get a DSP loop
>> because, well, there's is no DSP loop.
>>
>> I see where you're coming from. In the analog world your two examples are
>> indeed equivalent, but in Pd they are *not*.
>>
>> Christof
>> On 25.02.2020 23:46, Christof Ressi wrote:
>>
>> especially because of additional potential delay of inlet~/outlet~.
>>
>> inlet~/outlet~ does *not* add a delay (unless when going to a larger
>> blocksize).
>>
>> But you're using [r~] and [s~] which is not the same as direct signal
>>> connections. The former can act like a short delay line. Please read
>>> "3.audio.examples/G05.execution.order".
>>>
>>
>> Christof, Yes! Exactly!
>>
>> I think you misunderstood. With "former" I meant [r~]/[s~].
>> [inlet~]/[outlet~] does not add a delay.
>>
>> Also, believe me, r~/s~ has nothing to do with it.
>>
>> Believe me, it certainly has. Can you finally share a minimal test patch,
>> please? I would like to see an actual patch where you get an unexpected DSP
>> loop error.
>>
>> Christof
>> On 25.02.2020 23:40, Will

Re: [PD] Delay circuit feedback DSP error-- only when signal path leaves abstraction

[William Huston]

> in your example with the effect outside your abstraction you can
literally *see* the DSP loop, why are you surprised?

You have got to be kidding me!!!

So are you saying

If I have an audio abstraction FOO,
with has 4 inlets~ and 4 outlets~.

and I have another BAR,
with 2 inlets~ and 2 outlets~,

and I try to connect a pair of FOO's outlets~ to BAR's inlets~,
and BAR's outlets to a pair of FOO's inlet's,
that *PD throws a "DSP loop error" whether or not there*
*is in fact an audio loop in the actual graph?*??

And there is not a way to override this behavior??





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On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:01 PM Christof Ressi 
wrote:

> A DSP loop is when signal connections form a loop. Pd can't look into
> objects so it just treats them as black boxes. It's as simple as that.
>
> After all, in your example with the effect outside your abstraction you
> can literally *see* the DSP loop, why are you surprised? And in your other
> example with the effect inside your abstraction you don't get a DSP loop
> because, well, there's is no DSP loop.
>
> I see where you're coming from. In the analog world your two examples are
> indeed equivalent, but in Pd they are *not*.
>
> Christof
> On 25.02.2020 23:46, Christof Ressi wrote:
>
> especially because of additional potential delay of inlet~/outlet~.
>
> inlet~/outlet~ does *not* add a delay (unless when going to a larger
> blocksize).
>
> But you're using [r~] and [s~] which is not the same as direct signal
>> connections. The former can act like a short delay line. Please read
>> "3.audio.examples/G05.execution.order".
>>
>
> Christof, Yes! Exactly!
>
> I think you misunderstood. With "former" I meant [r~]/[s~].
> [inlet~]/[outlet~] does not add a delay.
>
> Also, believe me, r~/s~ has nothing to do with it.
>
> Believe me, it certainly has. Can you finally share a minimal test patch,
> please? I would like to see an actual patch where you get an unexpected DSP
> loop error.
>
> Christof
> On 25.02.2020 23:40, William Huston wrote:
>
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:14 AM Christof Ressi 
> wrote:
>
>> @Dan
>>
>> As far as I recall, going between abstraction to parent patch via
>> inlet~/outlet~ introduces a block delay, hence no error
>>
>> Dan, correction-- that is the exact circumstance where I *am* getting the
> error.
> So now I think you are beginning to see why I think it's unexpected,
> especially because of additional potential delay of inlet~/outlet~.
>
> Dan also wrote:
> > As the error says, you shouldn't create a direct feedback loop with
> signal cords.
>
> Let me try to explain again:
>
> *I have taken a WORKING CIRCUIT--*
> (a simple stereo delay circuit, with cris-cross L/R feedback
> implemented with [delwrite~] + [vd~])
>
> *-- which DOES NOT produce a "DSP Loop Error", *
>
> *pulled a Null (straight-wire) Filter *
>
> *(which had been installed in the feedback path) *
> *and moved it externally to the abstraction*
> *(up to the parent patch), via outlet~/inlet~,*
>
> *which, if anything ADDS additional block delays, *
>
> *yet this produces "DSP Loop Error". *
>
>
> *Clearly (the way I see it) *
>
> *the logic behind detecting "DSP Loop Error" condition *
> *has a bug.*
>
> *I believe this is a false error,*
> *because as I have stated--*
> *the circuit HAD been working!*
>
> *All I did was add the potential for additional*
>
> *blocks of delay on the feedback path. *
>
> But you're using [r~] and [s~] which is not the same as direct signal
>> connections. The former can act like a short delay line. Please read
>> "3.audio.examples/G05.execution.order".
>>
>
> Christof, Yes! Exactly!
> Added delay should REDUCE the chance of a "DSP Loop Detected"!
>
> Also, believe me, r~/s~ has nothing to do with it.
> My original patch was extremely ugly, due to criss-crossed feedback.
> I only implemented with r~/s~ to clean up the patch to share.
>
> Thanks everyone!
> BH
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [PD] Delay circuit feedback DSP error-- only when signal path leaves abstraction

[William Huston]

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:14 AM Christof Ressi 
wrote:

> @Dan
>
> As far as I recall, going between abstraction to parent patch via
> inlet~/outlet~ introduces a block delay, hence no error
>
> Dan, correction-- that is the exact circumstance where I *am* getting the
error.
So now I think you are beginning to see why I think it's unexpected,
especially because of additional potential delay of inlet~/outlet~.

Dan also wrote:
> As the error says, you shouldn't create a direct feedback loop with
signal cords.

Let me try to explain again:

*I have taken a WORKING CIRCUIT--*
(a simple stereo delay circuit, with cris-cross L/R feedback
implemented with [delwrite~] + [vd~])

*-- which DOES NOT produce a "DSP Loop Error", *

*pulled a Null (straight-wire) Filter *

*(which had been installed in the feedback path)*
*and moved it externally to the abstraction*
*(up to the parent patch), via outlet~/inlet~,*

*which, if anything ADDS additional block delays, *

*yet this produces "DSP Loop Error". *


*Clearly (the way I see it) *

*the logic behind detecting "DSP Loop Error" condition*
*has a bug.*

*I believe this is a false error,*
*because as I have stated--*
*the circuit HAD been working!*

*All I did was add the potential for additional*

*blocks of delay on the feedback path. *

But you're using [r~] and [s~] which is not the same as direct signal
> connections. The former can act like a short delay line. Please read
> "3.audio.examples/G05.execution.order".
>

Christof, Yes! Exactly!
Added delay should REDUCE the chance of a "DSP Loop Detected"!

Also, believe me, r~/s~ has nothing to do with it.
My original patch was extremely ugly, due to criss-crossed feedback.
I only implemented with r~/s~ to clean up the patch to share.

Thanks everyone!
BH














Christof
> On 25.02.2020 11:42, Dan Wilcox wrote:
>
> As far as I recall, going between abstraction to parent patch via
> inlet~/outlet~ introduces a block delay, hence no error
>
> Third patch is like the second, only the effect has been moved out of the
> abstraction, and into the parent patch. ONLY HERE do I get the DSP loop
> error.
>
>
> Signal loop in a single patch without abstractions = error. Pd has no way
> to read and write to the same signal buffer in the patch at the same time
> *without* some tiny delay.
>
> *The point is the last two patches have (or should have) an identical
> graph! *
>
>
> At the lower level, they don't. What happens if you put part of the path
> inside a subpath which uses inlet~/outlet~?
>
> On Feb 25, 2020, at 11:36 AM, William Huston 
> wrote:
>
> First abstraction, simple stereo delay:  2 delay lines, variable feedback
> L->R, R->L.
>  This *works*, no DSP loop error.
>
> Second abstraction contains an effect in the feedback path. (in my simple
> example, it's just a null wire: In-L passes to Out-L, etc). Again this
> *works*, no DSP error.
>
> Third patch is like the second, only the effect has been moved out of the
> abstraction, and into the parent patch. ONLY HERE do I get the DSP loop
> error.
>
> *The point is the last two patches have (or should have) an identical
> graph! *
>
> It really seems like a bug to me.
>
> I'll upload a test patch a little later.
>
> Thanks,
> BH
>
>
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
> danomatika.com
> robotcowboy.com
>
>
>
>
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Re: [PD] Delay circuit feedback DSP error-- only when signal path leaves abstraction

[William Huston]

First abstraction, simple stereo delay:  2 delay lines, variable feedback
L->R, R->L.
 This *works*, no DSP loop error.

Second abstraction contains an effect in the feedback path. (in my simple
example, it's just a null wire: In-L passes to Out-L, etc). Again this
*works*, no DSP error.

Third patch is like the second, only the effect has been moved out of the
abstraction, and into the parent patch. ONLY HERE do I get the DSP loop
error.

*The point is the last two patches have (or should have) an identical
graph! *

It really seems like a bug to me.

I'll upload a test patch a little later.

Thanks,
BH



On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 5:22 AM Dan Wilcox  wrote:

> As the error says, you shouldn't create a direct feedback loop with signal
> cords.
>
> I usually use [throw~] and [catch~] for send/receive busses via the rjlib
> [c_bus], [c_tobus], & [c_frombus] wrappers: https://github.com/rjdj/rjlib
>
> Additionally, I've made stereo versions ([c_bus2], [c_tobus2],
> [c_frombus2]) in my own rc-patches:
> https://github.com/danomatika/rc-patches
>
> I suppose we are introducing (tiny) relays with every step, but in
> practice I have never perceived it. Then again, most of what I do does not
> relay on "sub-2ms" latency. For a large project at work, we have a signal
> path with 64 channels using throw~/catch~ like: input/soundfile channel ->
> spatialization -> virtual speaker -> output.
>
> On Feb 25, 2020, at 9:50 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2020 03:50:18 -0500
> From: William Huston 
> To: Pd-List 
> Subject: [PD] Delay circuit feedback DSP error-- only when signal path
> leaves abstraction
> Message-ID:
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi, I've built a classic stereo delay using [delwrite~] and [vd~], and L/R
> crossed feedback. This works!
>
> Now, I want to insert an effect into the feedback path. (many possibilities
> here: add some bitcrush, so each repeat gradually becomes more
> distorted or a [hilbert~] type pitch shift, which might create
> something like Shepard tones, etc).
>
> *This works when everything is within a single patch or abstraction. *
>
> However, when I try to allow the effect to be external to the abstraction
> (like a SEND/RETURN insert on a mixer), when I try to complete the circuit,
> I get "DSP loop detected".
>
>
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
> danomatika.com
> robotcowboy.com
>
>
>
>
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Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[William Huston]

On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 5:07 PM IOhannes m zmölnig  wrote:

so *you* only need to implement whatever backend you want.
> keep in mind, that Pd doesn't depend on any external library for doing
> the encoding/decoding, and afaict it should stay that way.
> so you "just" need to implement mp3, ogg, wmv, flac,... from scratch.
>
> good luck.
>

What is your personal vision for what PD should be, IOhannes?
What would you say are the core values of PD?

Frankly, I consider this attitude arrogant, rude and offensive.
Telling me what I "need to" do!!!

One of my favorite language designers is Larry Wall (Perl).
Larry has talked about his design choices quite often, such as

1: Users (Perl programmers) should not experience any artificial or rigid
limitations

2: Perl should be flexible enough to adapt to a user's needs and
programming style,
and not vice versa.  He calls this approach "non-orthogonality". He relates
it to
looking at an apartment quad, where the designer first watches the paths
that people
make getting around, the worn patches of grass, and then builds the
sidewalks there.

to be honest: while i understand that mp3 is super-nice to have in your
> DJ setup, it really isn't a production format.


Who said anything about a DJ setup?
As Christof said, there are many different uses for this tool.

Who are you to be telling me which file formats I should use?

YOUR particular sound aesthetics are fine...  *FOR YOU!*
in how you use PD, make music, design sound, etc.

But please don't force me to adopt YOUR aesthetics
by crippling PD to enforce them!

*The fact is, MP3 is probably the most common audio file format*
*in use today.  *It is very inconvenient to (outside of PD) convert
any MP3 samples I want to use, to WAV before I use them in PD.

This conversion BTW, DOES NOT ADD information, so the resulting
WAV is guaranteed not to be better than the source.

This is ALWAYS the case!

Just because the file format is potentially uncompressed, does not mean
that
it is a high-quality sample.

So any arrogance, dogma, or demands made upon me based on the
alleged superiority of the "WAV file aesthetic" seem misplaced to me.

Again, PD should be like Perl:
NO ARTIFICIAL LIMITATIONS.
Make it as flexible as possible.

If users want to read MP3s, OGGs, or FLACs,
then lets make this possible.

I understand there are licensing issues with
MP3 (esp. writing them), but other FOSS tools
seem to have found a way to make it easy to
speak MP3 despite this limitation.

Even if it happens in an external which is easy
to find and load.

The answer to the question,
"Why doesn't soundfiler support MP3"
being "because IOhannes doesn't like them"
does not sound acceptable to me.

Thanks,
BH


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On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 5:07 PM IOhannes m zmölnig  wrote:

> On 2/11/20 9:48 PM, William Huston wrote:
> > As long as we are talking about soundfiler,
> > > It sure would be nice if someone could make soundfiler read
> > any audio file type:
> >
> > WAV MP3 OGG WMV FLAC AU AIFF etc
>
> dan has recently done some refactoring of the soundfile-i/o backend,
> which should make all this much simpler.
>
> so *you* only need to implement whatever backend you want.
> keep in mind, that Pd doesn't depend on any external library for doing
> the encoding/decoding, and afaict it should stay that way.
> so you "just" need to implement mp3, ogg, wmv, flac,... from scratch.
>
> good luck.
>
>
> to be honest: while i understand that mp3 is super-nice to have in your
> DJ setup, it really isn't a production format. (same for ogg and wmv:
> these are all handy formats to deliver content to the end-user, but not
> something you want to use during production). flac is mostly an
> archiving format.
> which leaves WAV, AU & AIFF from your list, all of which are already
> supported.
> what your list is missing is CAF, and this is what motivated dans recent
> work (so once his PR is accepted, you can read soundfiles "like a pro")
>
> gmsrda
> IOhannes
>
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Re: [PD] Sample loop - start and end point (WAV files)

[William Huston]

As long as we are talking about soundfiler,

It sure would be nice if someone could make soundfiler read
any audio file type:

WAV MP3 OGG WMV FLAC AU AIFF etc



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On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 12:45 PM Alexandre Torres Porres 
wrote:

> This is something I hoped it could be implemented in Pd Vanilla, with
> [soundfiler] (which now gives you some more information on the loaded
> file). If that's never happening, that is something I also wanted to
> implement in my externals, but I need help figuring how to do it.
>
> Em ter., 11 de fev. de 2020 às 09:36, Ingo  escreveu:
>
>> Hi everybody,
>>
>> I know it had been a problem in the past to read out the loop information
>> of
>> wav samples.
>> I have not followed any further development since years.
>>
>> Is there anything (like an external) that can read the loop points of .wav
>> samples by now?
>>
>> If not has anybody been successful reading the header information with
>> something like [mrpeach/binfile]?
>>
>> I know that loop points can be stored somwhere or somehow in the header.
>> Unfortunately I cannot see from the Microsoft WAVE soundfile format where
>> the loop points would be or find any information on it.
>>
>> http://soundfile.sapp.org/doc/WaveFormat/
>>
>> Any ideas?
>> Am I looking at the wrong file header type?
>>
>> Up until now I had been creating loops by copying the loop start and end
>> point manually from the readings of SoundForge.
>> However, I'm going to need a method soon that can read the loop points
>> directly from the samples.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Ingo
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [PD] Audio delay by symples (for comb filter)

[William Huston]

I have built a comb filter (actually a flanger) using
a combo of [delwrite~ foo] and a series of [vd~ foo]s
using an LFO which is phase-displaced across the different [vd~]s.

Can anyone tell me what is the best resolution I can get
with this combo? It it less than a per-sample resolution?

Can I build this system using something other than [vd~]
to get better resolution?

Thanks.
BH

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On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 5:30 AM i...@hansroels.be  wrote:

>
> I also needed a delay in samples and so I made an abstraction in Pd
> vanilla, delaying a signal with x number of  samples; for example a one
> sample delay is [delaysam 1]
> I think this is the correct way of doing this without needing externals...
> Hans
>
> On 1/25/20 9:16 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
>
> cyclone/delay~ and else/ffdelay~ also allow for delay lines defined in
> samples (or ms)
>
> but this can also be done in vanilla like people said (though somewhat
> inconvenient)
>
> cheers
>
> Em sáb., 25 de jan. de 2020 às 15:33, Ingo  escreveu:
>
>> Thanks guys!
>>
>> [zexy/z~] looks exactly like what I'm looking for!
>>
>> Ingo
>>
>>
>> > you can just use [delwrite~] + [delread~], but you have to make sure
>> that
>> > they are scheduled in the right order, see "G05.execution.order.pd" in
>> > "doc/3.audio.examples". Also, you have to convert from samples to
>> > milliseconds.
>> >
>> > For convenience, I often use [z~] from zexy, which is a delay line in a
>> > single
>> > object, with the delay time given in samples.
>> >
>> > Christof
>> >
>> >
>> > > Hi everybody!
>> > >
>> > > I'm planning on delaying a bandpass filter by samples to create a comb
>> > > filter effect.
>> > > Is this possible or can it be done only by audio blocks?
>> > >
>> > > If it is possible which object(s) would I use?
>> > >
>> > > Thanks
>> > > Ingo
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [PD] PD file format documentation?

[William Huston]

Thanks!
I notice this is from 2004/v0.37

No changes since then?


On Mon, Jan 6, 2020, 8:50 AM David  wrote:

> Or just  https://puredata.info/docs/developer/PdFileFormat
>
> On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 8:46 AM David  wrote:
>
>> See
>> https://puredata.info/docs/developer/PdFileFormat?fbclid=IwAR38HPWWXbfn8QrwmgE3A-Vj44NaIJwNKUS4owXoKUjpRqWdy37MWpCCBlg
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 11:49 PM William Huston 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> A question arose on Facebook which prompts me to ask:
>>>
>>> Is the PD file format documented anywhere? (besides the source code)?
>>>
>>> Has anyone built any programs which build PD files?
>>>
>>> It might be neat to have a C-Sound or Supercollider style language
>>> (where writting tests and loops can be easier) which compile down to a .PD
>>> source file.
>>>
>>> I'm sure I'm not the only person who has thought of this!
>>>
>>> I realize that editing .PD files directly is generally considered to be
>>> "nicht für der gefingerpoken" ;)
>>>
>>> thanks
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[PD] PD file format documentation?

[William Huston]

A question arose on Facebook which prompts me to ask:

Is the PD file format documented anywhere? (besides the source code)?

Has anyone built any programs which build PD files?

It might be neat to have a C-Sound or Supercollider style language (where
writting tests and loops can be easier) which compile down to a .PD source
file.

I'm sure I'm not the only person who has thought of this!

I realize that editing .PD files directly is generally considered to be
"nicht für der gefingerpoken" ;)

thanks
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Re: [PD] "good" phasor~ in B16.long-varispeed.pd not looping?

[William Huston]

I think it would be super nice if PD could have a 32 bit integer datatype.
(I realize there would be a lot of underlying complexity)


   - Some quantities are naturally reals/floats
   (voltages, instantaneous sound pressure levels)

   - Other quantities are naturally integers
   (counters, memory addresses).


IMO trying to force single-precision floats to represent numbers
which the programmer knows will always be integers, is like
banging a square peg into a round hole.

A much simpler approach would be to allow for an integer data type.

Yes, then you have to solve the problem of how you handle conversions
(connect an integer outlet to a float inlet, etc).

It would probably require a major architecture change.

I just want to throw this out there...

Perl has something Larry Wall calls "transmogrification".
In Perl, there is just a single Scalar data type, which can be
internally represented as a string, float, or integer.

The Perl interpreter tries to infer from the context whether
to represent the value as an integer or a float.

Just something to consider...

BH

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On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 6:29 PM Sebastian Shader via Pd-list <
pd-list@lists.iem.at> wrote:

> Is the reason that the "offset" inlet isn't a signal inlet mainly for
> performance in most use-cases?
> Because if it were it seems like users could give 32-bit floats to both
> inlets, and have them added as doubles internally?
>
> -Seb
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Re: [PD] "good" phasor~ in B16.long-varispeed.pd not looping?

[William Huston]

Adenosina,

I think what I meant to say, is that it seems to me
the particular style of bitcrush which happens
when reading into a large array using [tabread4~],
depending the exact depth into the array, has a nice
crunchy sound I haven't heard replicated using other
methods.

I wish I could have that in an abstraction, where I can dial-in
that sound. Like, the "20 min crush" (reading 20 minutes into
an array at 44.1khz) has a different quality than a "40 minute crush".

I would be neat to have that in a guitar pedal.
Because nobody outside the PD community
would even understand the units. :)

BTW... Off topic...
I been thinking about trying to build a real-time
sound mangler / beat slicer thing... So I've been
studying Katja's Instant Decomposer, and went looking
for an example of the famous Jonny Greenwood
stutter patch... and I found this, a really excellent
virtuoso cover:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSKozZ5ID9s
(amazing Telecaster tone)

BH





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On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 10:14 AM Adenosina Tri Phosfato 
wrote:

> Em sáb., 4 de jan. de 2020 às 12:24, William Huston <
> williamahus...@gmail.com> escreveu:
>
>> Funny, I have grown to like the "bitcrush" style distortion
>> from using the existing single-precision method.
>>
>
> but you can do bitcrush and reduce resolution from 64bits as well, right?
>
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Re: [PD] "good" phasor~ in B16.long-varispeed.pd not looping?

[William Huston]

As others have stated, 64-bit architecture vs 32 bit, has nothing to do
with a Single Precision Float vs. Double.

Yes, one can bitcrush from Double also.

On Sun, Jan 5, 2020, 10:14 AM Adenosina Tri Phosfato 
wrote:

> Em sáb., 4 de jan. de 2020 às 12:24, William Huston <
> williamahus...@gmail.com> escreveu:
>
>> Funny, I have grown to like the "bitcrush" style distortion
>> from using the existing single-precision method.
>>
>
> but you can do bitcrush and reduce resolution from 64bits as well, right?
>
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Re: [PD] "good" phasor~ in B16.long-varispeed.pd not looping?

[William Huston]

I would really love it if someone could provide a sample patch
demonstrating how to load a long audio file, and be able to scrub
through it using onset.

I am utterly baffled by B16.long-varispeed.pd

Something as simple as Rafael Hernandez' patch here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boX0v54SqtU

PS: What is the status of PD Double?
I understand it could break a lot of things.

Would be nice if this could be done with perfect backward
compatibility with existing externals.
(Is this naive of me to think this is possible?)

Funny, I have grown to like the "bitcrush" style distortion
from using the existing single-precision method.

But the day I can load a 2 hour .(wav|mp3) file,
and be able to a) scrub through it effortlessly,
and b) be able to identify, store, and manipulate
in/out points down to a per-sample resolution,
I will be in heaven on earth!

BH




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On Fri, Jan 3, 2020 at 7:31 PM Miller Puckette  wrote:

> It's not intentional - I must never have checked whether looping worked.
>
> In fact, looping would only work if the begining of the table were copied
> to
> the end (at least 1/10 seconds worth, more if transposing up).  This needs
> updating.
>
> cheers
> M
>
> On Fri, Jan 03, 2020 at 10:50:22PM +0100, Peter P. wrote:
> > Hi list,
> >
> > I am trying to understand the B16.long-varispeed.pd patch that measures
> > a [phasor~]'s phase to calculate an onset which is to be sent into the
> > right inlet of a [tabread4~]. The patch shows a good example and a bad
> > one. Interestingly the [phasor~] in the bad one does produce looping
> > playback, while the onset value in the "good" example keeps increasing
> > beyond the end of the table. Perhaps this different behavior is intended?
> >
> > I am currently trying to adapt an abstraction of mine, which uses
> > [line~] to read a table from a certain start position to an end position
> > (also backwards) to use the method from the above example. Seems to be
> > quite a riddle...
> >
> > P
> >
> >
> >
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Re: [PD] Pd double precision testing.

[William Huston]

This makes me very happy!

I will be happy to test a Windows version of this! :)




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On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 5:08 AM Dan Wilcox  wrote:

> There is a double precision test build for macOS here:
> http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/0.51/
>
> As development continues, I will throw additional test builds up there.
>
> On Dec 6, 2019, at 12:13 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> There is an experimental branch[1] on Pd-double-precision[2].
>
> So far we know a couple of things not working yet like writing audio
> files with [soundfiler] or [writesf~].
>
> If anyone is willing to test and find something else not working we
> welcome and appreciate it.
>
> Here's a Windows64 version for tests :
> http://lucarda.com.ar/x/Pd-double-w64-testing.zip
>
> Tests should be done with "vanilla-only" patches. 99% of externals were
> not compiled for double-precision so they don't work with this Pd.
>
> If you find something not working write back here to the list or issue
> it to github (prepend "double-precision: " on the name of the issue).
>
> [1] https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/tree/double-precision
> [2] http://www.katjaas.nl/doubleprecision/doubleprecision.html
>
>
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
> danomatika.com
> robotcowboy.com
>
>
>
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Re: [PD] Formant filter ?

[William Huston]

I have one I built, it's basically 3x bp~ stages in parallel, with each
stage being a double bp~ in series.

Get it here:
https://github.com/WilliamAHuston/BHPDtoolkit

It's called:
abstractions/BHFormantx3~.pd
also
abstractions/FormantControl.pd

I have a fake resonance built in, basically an osc~ at the cutoff freq of
the filter which you can blend it.

It's not pretty, I built this as a PD novice. But it works well.

(You may want to grep through the patches folder to find some examples
where I use this.)

One use I found for it, which is very cool, is to create a source which is
rich in overtones, saw or square or a gritty granular snippet, send it to
the filter.

Tune the 3 bp~'s to a chord, and use a midi controller to set the root of
the chord, to play melodies *on the filter*.

HTH,
BH



On Mon, Jun 24, 2019, 1:50 AM Ingo  wrote:

> OK! I just googled "Formant Table" and got lots of results with the
> frequencies of each formant.
> I guess by using 3 bandpass filters I should be able to build one as an
> abstraction.
>
> Ingo
>
> > Can anyone point me to a formant filter external that is working and not
> too heavy on the CPU?
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [PD] Bug Report/Feature Request: trigger should work like pack

[William Huston]

Someone brought it to our attention on FB, and it seemed like a legitimate
wart.

Thanks for remind me that unpack really does guarantee R to L fanout order.

You're right Alex.
It's not really my issue.
I have no real motivation.
I should have left it alone.

I think my root concern at this point is how trigger is overloaded.

if it only dealt with bangs, that makes much more sense.

If you are replicating a float on all outlets,
that seems to me an entirely different object!
That's got nothing to do with a triggee.
That's a float clone, or a symbol or list replicator.

When you add all those datatypes into one object, which you call trigger,
and allow even mixing datatypes (!!) as arguments to a single object (!),
well, IMO that produces some possibly very ugly code which does some really
odd things.

This is my new request,
and this is "mine" now ;)

Let's decouple that overloaded trigger
into more rational objects

bang-only trigger
float replicator/sequencer
List replicator/sequencer
symbol replicator / sequencer.
deprecate existing trigger.

Because I think

*[t b f l s 55] *

is VERY MESSED UP,
and *it's never going to so anything reasonable*, I can't imagine any
useful purpose for that,
allowing it will only confuse people, and make the language irregular and
harder to learn,

and thus it should be prohibited by syntax
 or at least deprecated.

IMHO ;)
BH




On Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 11:57 PM Alexandre Torres Porres 
wrote:

> Em dom, 14 de abr de 2019 às 21:44, Alexandre Torres Porres <
> por...@gmail.com> escreveu:
>
>>
>> which one, this? https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/354
>>
>> cheers
>>
>
> Anyway, I just went ahead and made a PR for it. I just got the code from
> Purr Data and swapped with vanilla's, nothing else! I obviously tested and
> itt works just fine. I also updated the help file, of course (by the way,
> Purr Data's help file doesn't mention this feature).
>
> I see how this could be convenient in some use cases, but I don't have
> that much of a personal motivation to request this. I guess my main
> motivation to do this PR is that:
>
> A) people often request for it (maybe they are influenced by Max or Purr
> Data, who knows, doesn't matter).
>
> B) I think it's really bad that Purr Data is not compatible to Pd, but I
> understand this is not Pd's fault.
>
> Well, if this doesn't get accepted, I guess I maybe could make an external
> like it in my library.
>
> cheers
>
>
>
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Re: [PD] Bug Report/Feature Request: trigger should work like pack

[William Huston]

unpack does not guarantee sequence, as does trigger.

It's not really "my" use case. I saw the post on FB about why [t 10 66 -100
3000] doesn't work as expected. That seems like a reasonable expectation
based on how [pack 10 66 -100 3000] works, and a useful feature.

Also giving a list to [t f f f f] seems like it should work like [pack f f
f f].

I am just saying that such irregularities and special cases in a language
given similar syntax (as with English!) make it more difficult to learn,
use, and master.

Whereas a language like Perl, things just seem to work as you would expect
them to, based on similar patterns. You can often guess at the syntax and
things just work, as opposed to learning a bunch of special cases.

I think given present behavior, [t 35] should throw an error to the
console.

But I would prefer the change requested.

BH

On Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 7:34 PM Alexandre Torres Porres 
wrote:

>
>
> Em dom, 14 de abr de 2019 às 19:14, William Huston <
> williamahus...@gmail.com> escreveu:
>
>> Well if it breaks things, then that is a problem.
>>
>> However, I think that sending a list to
>> [t l l l], and replicating the list to each output would have very few
>> applications. I would like to see a patch where someone is using this
>> feature.
>>
>
> I've done that lots of times
>
>
>
>> Anyway, that is not my use case.
>>
>> My use case is
>>
>> a) literals in [t] not working the same between [pack] with similar
>> looking syntax (as illustrated)
>>
>
> not a good point as both objects are supposed to be quite different, and
> each object has its own design or "syntax"
>
>
>> b) sending a list to [t f f f]. Distributing the list to each float seems
>> rather useful
>>
>
> this task is performed by [unpack f f f] already.
>
> I don't really understand your use case, can you give us more details?
>
> cheers
>
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Re: [PD] Bug Report/Feature Request: trigger should work like pack

[William Huston]

Well if it breaks things, then that is a problem.

However, I think that sending a list to
[t l l l], and replicating the list to each output would have very few
applications. I would like to see a patch where someone is using this
feature.

Anyway, that is not my use case.

My use case is

a) literals in [t] not working the same between [pack] with similar looking
syntax (as illustrated), and

b) sending a list to [t f f f]. Distributing the list to each float seems
rather useful, and changing the behavior as I suggested would be harmless,
except in the odd case where someone has a patch, sending trigger a list,
yet EXPECTS all values in the list to be dropped except the first element,
which is distributed to each float.

The only ambigutity I can in accepting my change would be the case of using
BOTH lists and floats (or literals) in a single [t].  I honestly cannot
imagine a programmer doing this.

But then just model existing behavior.

Requested change:

If trigger's arguments contains *any* lists, then model existing behavior.

If trigger's arguments contains only floats (or string literals) and no
lists, then

a) if the input is a single value, model existing behavior.

b) if the input is a list, then distribute to floats and literals similar
to pack.

BH





On Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 4:27 PM IOhannes m zmölnig  wrote:

> On 4/14/19 10:05 PM, William Huston wrote:
> >
> >- 2: Allow [trigger] to accept a list. If there is one element, then
> >distribute to all "f" | "floats" as the present behavior. If there are
> >multiple elements, then distribute similar to pack.
> >
>
> that doesn't make sense to me, as [trigger] already accepts lists fine:
> [t l l l].
> however, this has totally different sematics than [pack].
> it would break zillions of patches.
>
> did i miss something?
>
> gmdsr
> IOhannes
>
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Re: [PD] 1 / 0 = 0?

[William Huston]

Dear Christof,

I understand that tradeoff when working with real-time audio.

However, I was talking about control logic, not audio.

BH

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On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 10:57 AM, Christof Ressi <christof.re...@gmx.at>
wrote:

> Hi William,
>
> there's no other sane way to handle division by 0 in the audio domain
> since the result must be a number and there are only two options: output 0
> or some ridiculously large number (which would be quite dangerous).
> Pd *could* handle it differently in the control domain, but why?
> as Matt said: just don't divide by 0 :-)
>
> Christof
>
>
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 24. Mai 2018 um 16:52 Uhr
> Von: "Matt Davey" <hard@gmail.com>
> An: "William Huston" <williamahus...@gmail.com>
> Cc: "pd-list@lists.iem.at" <pd-list@lists.iem.at>
> Betreff: Re: [PD] 1 / 0 = 0?
> Just don’t allow your function to blow up in the first place.
>
> On Thursday, May 24, 2018, William Huston <williamahus...@gmail.com[
> mailto:williamahus...@gmail.com]> wrote:
>
> I have a function which blows up at a certain point, moves to infinity.
> In this case, it is basically 1/0.
>
> I was a little surprised to find that 1/0 = 0 (according to Pd).
> I was expecting NaN, or an overflow condition would could be trapped.
>
> So what I have to do is examine the *input* for the values
> which will blow up my function, and set a flag. While this
> is easy in this single case, it is awkward in the general case.
>
> This seems somewhat broken to me.
> Is this a bug?
>
> Thanks
> BH
>
>
>
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[PD] Display image inside graph-on-parent window?

[William Huston]

Is there a way to display an image inside graph-on-parent window?

Is there a way to display an arbitrary image of common filetypes (gif,
jpeg, png, tif) on a canvas?

I've checked the list archives.
I tried [image] but couldn't get it to work.

I can't seem to type a Windows-MSDOS style pathname
which contains backslashes... I get "Keycode 92 dropped".
(How annoying! is there a good reason for this?)

Anyway, I would really like a way to display an image inside the
graph-on-parent window
to help people understand the controls.

Bonus points if I can change the image with a message.

Thanks!
BH


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Re: [PD] Ganged Toggle?

[William Huston]

Thanks IOhannes and Tim!

On Sat, Apr 28, 2018, 2:23 AM IOhannes m zmölnig <zmoel...@iem.at> wrote:

> On 04/28/2018 06:57 AM, William Huston wrote:
> > Right now, let's say I set both [tgl]'s
> > to both send and receive on $0-FOO.
> >
> > This seems to work, as both GUI elements
> > track as I would expect.
> >
> > However, if we name the master as being the one that I click,
> > then I see that *the slave tgl does not transmit on its outlet.*
> >
> > *This seems like a bug to me. *
>
> it is not. it is the designed behaviour of the iemguis.
>
> however, i don't understand your problem.
> you simply create a [r $0-FOO] and whenever you click on one of the
> toggles, they will change state simultaneously *and* will output the
> current state via the [r $0-FOO] object.
>
> gfmdsar
> IOhannes
>
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[PD] Ganged Toggle?

[William Huston]

I'm trying to make a Ganged Toggle.
(but this also could apply to other graphical elements
like hsl or vsl etc)

I want to have #1 little orange [tgl] inside the
graph-on-parent control window,
and have a similar #2 little orange [tgl] inside the patch.

I want to be able to click on either one. This
should trigger a state change in the other.

I want them to function as one logical element,
with two different gui locations.

Right now, let's say I set both [tgl]'s
to both send and receive on $0-FOO.

This seems to work, as both GUI elements
track as I would expect.

However, if we name the master as being the one that I click,
then I see that *the slave tgl does not transmit on its outlet.*

*This seems like a bug to me. *

If this is expected behavior, or a necessary limitation, or
a bad practice

then how else can I accomplish a "Ganged Toggle"
(e.g. could be hsl, etc.) with minimal logic?

Thanks
BH



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Re: [PD] [vcf~] with resonance?

[William Huston]

Thanks Christof.

The help file for [svf~] shows a control-rate number box feeding the cutoff.
But I tested with [sig~] and it works. Thanks.

However I see no mention in the help of [scf~] for how to set Q.
Cutoff and Resonance only.

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On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 1:38 PM, Christof Ressi <christof.re...@gmx.at>
wrote:

> Hi William,
>
> both [vcf~] and [svf~] let you set the cutoff frequency at audio rate and
> both have adjustable Q... what are you missing exactly?
>
> the vcf_* filters in iemlib are all suited for audio rate modulations.
>
> for moog style lowpass filters have a look at [bob~] and [ggee/moog~].
>
> Christof
>
>
>
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 25. April 2018 um 18:46 Uhr
> Von: "William Huston" <williamahus...@gmail.com>
> An: "Julian Brooks" <jbee...@gmail.com>
> Cc: "pd-list@lists.iem.at" <pd-list@lists.iem.at>
> Betreff: Re: [PD] [vcf~] with resonance?
>
> Yes, thanks for the detailed response, Ed!
>
> I was hoping for some guidance for a bolt-on method for adding resonance
> to vcf~,
> but maybe it's not so easy? or the wrong approach?
>
> My error was thinking resonance was implemented with feedback.
>
> From this video, it looks like resonance is caused by a bump in the filter
> shape at the cutoff frequency:
>
> https://youtu.be/XA_WnyA7D6k
>
> This looks like a shape that naturally occurs in analogue circuits.
> Someone in the FB group suggested [svf~] from Cyclone.
> It's really great, as it gives you HiP, LoP, BP, and Band Reject(!!).
>
> I would be in Filter Heaven if that had adjustable Q...
>
> PS: Can someone remind me of the filters where you can set parameters like
> cutoff freq at *audio rate*?
>
> Thanks!
> BH
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 11:09 AM Julian Brooks <jbee...@gmail.com[mailto:
> jbee...@gmail.com]> wrote:
> Well, regardless of the correct number of inversions, some informative and
> well linked posts there - cheers for that Ed :)
>
> On 24 April 2018 at 20:44, Ed Kelly via Pd-list <pd-list@lists.iem.at
> [mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at]> wrote:
>
> The 4-pole model in the ENS-85 paper does not have inversion at the input,
> but the Thomas Henry 2-pole design does. So I guess the 4-pole is more
> similar to vcf~
>
> go figure.
> Signing off
> Ed
>
>
> _-_-_-_-_-_-_-^-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
>
> For Lone Shark releases, Pure Data software and published Research, go to
> http://sharktracks.co.uk[http://sharktracks.co.uk]
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, 24 April 2018, 14:40:20 GMT+1, Ed Kelly via Pd-list <
> pd-list@lists.iem.at[mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at]> wrote:
>
>
>
> Ach! NO! inversion does not happen at the input!
> I guess you can look at the topologies and discover for yourself.
>
> I'm having a bad week.
> x
> Ed
>
>
> _-_-_-_-_-_-_-^-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
>
> For Lone Shark releases, Pure Data software and published Research, go to
> http://sharktracks.co.uk[http://sharktracks.co.uk]
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, 24 April 2018, 14:33:13 GMT+1, Ed Kelly <
> morph_2...@yahoo.co.uk[mailto:morph_2...@yahoo.co.uk]> wrote:
>
>
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm sure someone will) but going back to
> analog electronics...
>
> If you examine the topology of a standard analog filter design, such as
> the Thomas Henry VCF1 (http://www.birthofasynth.com/
> Thomas_Henry/pdf/VCF-1/Sheet_0002.pdf[http://www.birthofasynth.com/Thomas_
> Henry/pdf/VCF-1/Sheet_0002.pdf]) you will see that the signal path from
> input to output goes through 5 inversion stages before being fed back into
> the input to generate resonance. Therefore it is inverted.
>
>
> Since most (resonant) filters consist of an even number of stages (and
> therefore an even number of poles and/or zeroes) you should probably invert
> the feedback. With an odd number you should probably not invert feedback.
> My guess is that vcf~ implements an even-number (probably 4-pole) resonant
> filter, a la Moog. You can also try mvcf~ from my library (ekext -
> http://sharktracks.co.uk/puredata/ekext-0.1.8.tar.gz[
> http://sharktracks.co.uk/puredata/ekext-0.1.8.tar.gz]) which is another
>

Re: [PD] Messages for Arrays?

[William Huston]

Thanks Tom!

I was specifically looking for a way to draw a line at the zero axis.

The other point was a request to get this into the help files,
if it's not there already.

IMO the help files are still deficient.

One thing I liked about pd-extended is that the help files for objects
were more like a real language reference. Basic things were always there
for every object.

I think every help file should include up front:

*Inputs, Outputs, (& their types and ranges) *

*Parameters, Options, list of messages it responds to. *






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On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 1:13 PM, Tom Erbe <soundh...@icloud.com> wrote:

> Looking into the source code I see:
>
> const
> bounds
> xticks
> xlabel
> yticks
> ylabel
> rename
> read
> write
> resize
> print
> sinesum
> cosinesum
> normalize
> arraydialog
> arrayviewlistnew
> arrayviewlistfillpage
> arrayviewclose
>
>
> > On Apr 25, 2018, at 9:26 AM, William Huston <williamahus...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Where in official documentation/help files
> > can I find a list of all messages an array can accept?
> >
> > This would be nice to have in array-object-help :)
> >
> > Dr. Cheeto identified several here:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKsDZpIISQE
> >
> > resize, bounds, xticks, yticks, xlabel, ylabel
> >
> > What others are there?
> > Must I read the source code?
> >
> > Maybe I'm missing it...
> >
> > Thank you!
> > BH
> >
> >
> > --
> > William Huston:  williamahus...@gmail.com
> > Binghamton NY
> >
> > Public Service Mapping / Videography / Research
> > Blog -- Facebook -- Twitter  -- Youtube
> > Document collections: VirtualPipelines -- BHDCSDimockArchive
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> >
> >
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> listinfo/pd-list
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Re: [PD] [vcf~] with resonance?

[William Huston]

Yes, thanks for the detailed response, Ed!

I was hoping for some guidance for a bolt-on method for adding resonance to
vcf~,
but maybe it's not so easy? or the wrong approach?

My error was thinking resonance was implemented with feedback.

>From this video, it looks like resonance is caused by a bump in the filter
shape at the cutoff frequency:
https://youtu.be/XA_WnyA7D6k

This looks like a shape that naturally occurs in analogue circuits.

Someone in the FB group suggested [svf~] from Cyclone.
It's really great, as it gives you HiP, LoP, BP, and Band Reject(!!).

I would be in Filter Heaven if that had adjustable Q...

PS: Can someone remind me of the filters where you can set parameters like
cutoff freq at *audio rate*?

Thanks!
BH



On Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 11:09 AM Julian Brooks <jbee...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Well, regardless of the correct number of inversions, some informative and
> well linked posts there - cheers for that Ed :)
>
> On 24 April 2018 at 20:44, Ed Kelly via Pd-list <pd-list@lists.iem.at>
> wrote:
>
>> The 4-pole model in the ENS-85 paper does not have inversion at the
>> input, but the Thomas Henry 2-pole design does. So I guess the 4-pole is
>> more similar to vcf~
>>
>> go figure.
>> Signing off
>> Ed
>>
>>
>> _-_-_-_-_-_-_-^-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
>>
>> For *Lone Shark *releases, *Pure Data *software and published *Research*,
>> go to http://sharktracks.co.uk
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, 24 April 2018, 14:40:20 GMT+1, Ed Kelly via Pd-list <
>> pd-list@lists.iem.at> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Ach! NO! inversion does not happen at the input!
>> I guess you can look at the topologies and discover for yourself.
>>
>> I'm having a bad week.
>> x
>> Ed
>>
>>
>> _-_-_-_-_-_-_-^-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
>>
>> For *Lone Shark *releases, *Pure Data *software and published *Research*,
>> go to http://sharktracks.co.uk
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, 24 April 2018, 14:33:13 GMT+1, Ed Kelly <
>> morph_2...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm sure someone will) but going back to
>> analog electronics...
>>
>> If you examine the topology of a standard analog filter design, such as
>> the Thomas Henry VCF1 (http://www.birthofasynth.com/
>> Thomas_Henry/pdf/VCF-1/Sheet_0002.pdf) you will see that the signal path
>> from input to output goes through 5 inversion stages before being fed back
>> into the input to generate resonance. Therefore it is inverted.
>>
>> Since most (resonant) filters consist of an even number of stages (and
>> therefore an even number of poles and/or zeroes) you should probably invert
>> the feedback. With an odd number you should probably not invert feedback.
>> My guess is that vcf~ implements an even-number (probably 4-pole) resonant
>> filter, a la Moog. You can also try mvcf~ from my library (ekext -
>> http://sharktracks.co.uk/puredata/ekext-0.1.8.tar.gz) which is another
>> attempt at emulating this topology, or there are lots of others I'm sure
>> you know about.
>>
>> This might seem counter-intuitive, but the image below shows how this
>> works with regards to vcf~ - the output of vcf~ is NOT inverted, whereas
>> the output of an analog VCF should be.
>>
>> Odd-number staged filters are very rare in the analog world, and most
>> (i.e. 18dB per octave) were created to implement the (mythical 3-pole
>> topology) filter of the Roland TB303. However, according to the schematics
>> of the TB303 it is a four-pole diode-ladder VCF using transistors as
>> diodes, with extra resonance artifacts revealed by Tim Stinchcombe on his
>> excellent website. Tim Stinchcombe - TB-303 Diode Ladder Filter model
>> <http://www.timstinchcombe.co.uk/index.php?pge=diode2>
>>
>> Tim Stinchcombe - TB-303 Diode Ladder Filter model
>>
>> <http://www.timstinchcombe.co.uk/index.php?pge=diode2>
>>
>>
>>
>> Meanwhile, if you want to go deeper with regards to 4-pole filter
>> topologies (and lowpass/highpass configurations) it is worth checking out a
>> paper published in 1985 - http://electronotes.netfirms.com/EN85VCF.PDF
>>
>> The easiest way to think about it, from this paper, is that you think
>> about each stage as an inversion, and the input itself is one of the
>> stages, so for a 4-pole filter there are 4+1 inversion stages. But in the
>> digital world I guess you'll have to test input and output at a relatively
>> low frequency to the cutoff to determine inversion principles for the
>> enhancement of resonance.
>>
>> I hope this helps. It gave m

[PD] Messages for Arrays?

[William Huston]

Where in official documentation/help files
can I find a list of all messages an array can accept?

This would be nice to have in array-object-help :)

Dr. Cheeto identified several here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKsDZpIISQE

resize, bounds, xticks, yticks, xlabel, ylabel

What others are there?
Must I read the source code?

Maybe I'm missing it...

Thank you!
BH


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[PD] [vcf~] with resonance?

[William Huston]

What's the best or "correct" way to add resonance to a [vcf~]?

   - Should the feedback be delayed?
   - Should the feedback be inverted?
   - Should the feedback be from the outlet I'm using?
  - Or should the feedback always come from the BP or HiPass side?

Thanks!
BH

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[PD] Can Pd pretend to be a USB keyboard?

[William Huston]

I want to control OBS Studio with a MIDI device.
OBS Studio does not presently support MIDI directly.

I want to communicate to my MIDI controller with Pd.
I want to translate MIDI note-on/off messages into keystrokes
and pass those on to OBS.

Can I emulate "midikey2key" in Pd?
https://obsproject.com/forum/threads/control-obs-with-midi.32881/
http://75r.de/midikey2key

I guess I could also use obs-websocket
<https://obsproject.com/forum/resources/obs-websocket-remote-control-of-obs-studio-made-easy.466/>

Thanks for your ideas :)
BH


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[PD] OT: seeking expert in human sound perception as expert witness

[William Huston]

Please forgive the OT post:

I am looking an expert in how humans perceive sound as a possible expert
witness in a trial.

You should have some academic or professional credentials supporting that
you are an audio expert.

*This case has to do with how sounds of different frequencies mix together,
and how this impacts human perception of Loudness. *

You should be familiar with mastering, compression, Fletcher–Munson, LUFS
or LKFS (Loudness) curves, PRSS Audio Loudness Standard, EBU R128, ITU-R
BS.1770-3 etc.

Bonus points if you are somewhat local to upstate NY (Binghamton), USA

Please reply off-list by email: williamahus...@gmail.com
Thanks!

BH

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Re: [PD] plans for Pd 0.48

[William Huston]

My #1 request is to be able to index into long arrays using the standard
phasor~, tabread4~ combo without loss of precision or complex hacks.

I have not been able to master the use of the onset inlet, and would prefer
a simple solution (from a user's perspective anyway) like the Pd Double
approach taken by Katja. Maybe at least improve the help file demonstrating
how the onset inlet works?

I deal with audio files commonly which are 1-2 hrs long. Would be wonderful
to be able to mangle them with Pd.

Thanks for Pd!!
It brings me joy every day.



On Sunday, January 1, 2017, Miller Puckette  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm now ready to start working toward the next Pd release (0.48) . I've
> barely
> touched the Pd sources since the 0.47-1 release last June, and meanwhile
> picked
> up lots of ideas from the Pd convention and always have my own long list of
> things to do.   In the interest of transparency I'll try to map out my
> plans for
> the 3-ish months I think it will take me to get to 0.48.
>
> I'll only be advancing rather slowly before Feb. 4 because I have two
> separate
> music production projects before then; I'll start working faster after
> that.
>
> First thing is always to merge in as many patches and pull requests as I
> can.
> I get these from two sources: sourceforge
> (https://sourceforge.net/p/pure-data/patches/)
> and github (https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pulls).  At the moment
> I don't prioritize one of those above the other.  I do this first because,
> when I enter a period of heavy code editing I risk causing conflicts with
> patches/pull requests and I don't want to create extra work for
> contributors.
>
> In a few days I'll start on my own changes, with the major ones first so
> that
> there's extras time to get them decently debugged; then while bugs in the
> major changes are surfacing I can take on a larger list of smaller changes.
> The major changes I want to try to put in this release are as follows:
>
> 1.  Make a stab at making Pdlib callable from multiple threads.  There's a
> suggestion from Peter Brinkmann in which gensym() (and I presume by
> extension, pd_bind() etc) would be protected by a lock.  I have an
> alternative
> idea I'd like to float; I'll do this in a separate message to follow.
>
> 2.  fix "preferences" so that you can load/store them explicitly to files,
> and
> offer an option to delete all "system" preferences ("defaults" on mac;
> registry info on Windows).
>
> 3.  Adapt and incorporate the Pd-llork/purr-data "infinite undo" feature.
> Since
> the code has diverged I'll probably have to extensively rewrite it to work
> in Pd
> vanilla.
>
> 4. fix the DSP sorting mechanism so that objects can sense whether they
> have
> signals connected and, if not, avoid having Pd automatically generate fake
> signals for them to use.  This way, for example, "+~" can finally detect
> whether
> it's got a signal connected without having the user have to tell it via
> "+~ 0".
> Also, then the filters (hip~ etc) can then be upgraded to allow signals for
> filter parameters, without doing the extra calculations if there's no
> signal
> connected.  This will require adding something to the "DSP" mechanism; I'm
> still
> not sure how to do this in the best way.
>
> 5.  Make a binary "FUDI" format for pd~ objects, and perhaps also offer it
> as an
> option for netsend/netreceive (I'm not sure if that's needed or not -
> maybe the
> existing "-b" binary formatting can be used in conjunction with some new
> formatting/parsing objects to allow passing floats and symbols around in
> binary
> messages instead.)
>
> 6. Hack at sigmund~ to add some features it needs.
>
> This is a long list and I probably won't get to all of it.  Then I'll move
> onto
> all the smaller changes, which are too numerous to list here.
>
>
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[PD] #PdCon16 thoughts

[William Huston]

I haven't figured out housing yet.
There is an amazing place called the
*HI Hostel in NYC* (kinda far uptown).

I had a very good experience there
during the People's Climate March.

It had a very nice vibe.
Diverse, hip crowd.


*(Please save me a reservation for one!!!)*

I am SO looking forward to meeting
any/all of you who can come!!

I would die a happy man
if we could figure out a simple way
to jam together.


*God bless you Miller Puckette!!*
I cannot express to you my joy.

You have given a part of me a voice
which never had prior expression.

I feel like the kid in
Orson Scott Card's,
*Unaccompanied Sonata*,
a prodigy being given
the world's most perfect instrument.

I think you deserve the Nobel Prize
in Mathematics, Physics, Music Theory,
Computer Science.

In England, I think you would
deserve to be Knighted.

Thank you for the gift of
Pd, Pure Data.

This is such an wonderful thing!

Bill Huston,
Binghamton, NY, USA

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[PD] Can Pd rescan MIDI devices while running?

[William Huston]

I've searched the list archives and do not find an answer to this.

Would be nice to be able to plug in a new device
and have Pd see it without exit/restart.

Thanks.

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[PD] OT: Dennis Ritchie

[William Huston]

https://www.wired.com/2011/10/dennis-ritchie/

#include


int () { RIP++; sleep; void exit(); }


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Re: [PD] [mtof~] !!!

[William Huston]

Well I *did. *But I also stated that I wasn't sure.

I have several different versions of Pd installed,
and I generally point to a bunch of external libraries from -extended.

I searched my machine for things like:

mtof~.dll
mtof~-help.pd

I DID find the help in \pd-extended\externals\vanilla\ (Windows machine)
But NOT under my Vanilla install (0.47-1).

I also went to the top of my 0.47-1 install tree and looked for any file
called mtof~ and *FOUND NOTHING. *

So maybe you can tell me how, when I instantiate *[mtof~]*, where exactly
it is coming from? Is it an internal? Is it an external?

Thanks,
BH

On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 3:57 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig <zmoel...@iem.at> wrote:

> On 2016-10-05 09:06, William Huston wrote:
> > This is so handy, I would like to ask that [mtof~] be added to Vanilla
> > (if it's not already there)
>
> zhmm, so you've written that long email and did not bother to check
> whether it actually is included in vanilla? (it is, at least since 0.33,
> which was released about 2001)
>
> fgasdr
> IOhannes
>
>
>
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[PD] [mtof~] !!!

[William Huston]

I just discovered this!
It looks like it shipped with extended?
Also looks like it is in Max?

This thing is awesome because it solves a problem I often have
with LFO wave-shaping.

I have an LFO like [osc~ 3] which has a range of (-1, 1).
I want to be able to use this to represent a frequency scaler.

So let's say that +1 is like +1VDC @ 1VDC/octave
(like a modular synth).  So +1 is like 12 semitones up (octave)
and -1 is like 12 semitones down.

However this seems really complicated to take a sine wave
with a range -1,1 and scale that to 0.5,2 to represent a frequency
scalar. (f * 0.5 = one octave down, f * 2 = one octave up).

if V~ is your LFO voltage value (input) and
you want to generate your voltage-scalar S~:
Then it's something like


*S~ = (2^(1/12)) ^ (V~ * 12)*
This can be done with an [expr~] or with some math~,
but it seems cumbersome to me.

But if I can convert a (float) MIDI value to frequency value,
*at signal rate*, then I can simply ADD my ordinary [osc~ 3] LFO
(and also linear Bend-value) and i'm done.

(I think of this signal-rate "voltage" representing frequency
to be actually like
* F~ = MIDIval + LFO~ + Bend)*

This is so handy, I would like to ask that [mtof~] be added to Vanilla
(if it's not already there) or maybe Alexandre can report
if it is in his new Cyclone?

Thanks,
BH


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[PD] Request: [random 0] returns floats

[William Huston]

Currently, [random 0] returns 0 when banged.

Does anyone actually use this behavior?

(I could imagine a case where new values are sent to the range inlet, and
you might want this for consistency).

I would love to have a way to random floats between 0-1 in a native
function in Vanilla, since these are easier to scale.

Yes, it's easy enough to get this by picking some large number N:

[random N]
|
[/ N]

Still it would be nice to have natively.

Thanks.

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Re: [PD] bendin bug (?)

[William Huston]

I agree with Alexandre about what seems sensible, but introducing a change
like this will break existing patches.

Is it possible (for all changes like this) to introduce a compatibility
mode to get the old behavior?

Yes, any seasoned Pd hacker will know how to fix the scaling. I'm just
imagining someone's patch breaks after upgrading and they just want a fast
way to get old behavior.

Thanks,

On Sunday, September 4, 2016, Alexandre Torres Porres 
wrote:
>
>
> 2016-09-04 13:35 GMT-03:00 Giulio Moro :
>>
>> Is this a [bendin] or a [bendout]  bug?
>> [bendin]'s current implementation is closer to the actual MIDI messages
being transmitted.
>
> but in actuality, the not raw standard is from -8192 to 8191 right?
> I just care they both are the same, but it seems to me that -8192 to 8191
is the sensible choice
> cheers

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[PD] [SOLVED!] Re: Determine library dependency tree for a patch?

[William Huston]

Wow! Found a feature I didn't know existed.

Just to recap:
My problem is that I want to distrubute a complex patch,
but I do not know all of the dependencies.
So I want to build a list of such.


*In Pd version 0.46.7 (and perhaps others),*
Edit -> Preferences -> Path
Check "verbose".

Now when you load a patch, it shows you a ton of spew on the
Pd Console window, as it tries to find every object.

Now you get stuff like this:

tried
C:/Users/BH/Music/pd/BHPDToolkitNEW/BHPDtoolkit-master/BHPDtoolkit-master/patches/EvenOddSynth~.m_i386
and failed
tried
C:/Users/BH/Music/pd/BHPDToolkitNEW/BHPDtoolkit-master/BHPDtoolkit-master/abstractions/EvenOddSynth~.m_i386
and failed
tried C:/Program Files
(x86)/pd-0.43.4-extended/extra/freeverb~/EvenOddSynth~.m_i386 and failed
tried C:/Program Files
(x86)/pd-0.43.4-extended/extra/cyclone/EvenOddSynth~.m_i386 and failed
tried C:/Program Files
(x86)/pd-0.43.4-extended/extra/iemlib/EvenOddSynth~.m_i386 and failed
.*.. (snipped 951 lines!!)...*
tried C:/Users/BH/AppData/Roaming/Pd/output~/output~.dll and failed
tried C:/Program Files (x86)/Common Files/Pd/output~/output~.dll and failed
tried C:/Program Files (x86)/Pure Data-0.46-7/extra/output~/output~.dll and
failed
tried
C:/Users/BH/Music/pd/BHPDToolkitNEW/BHPDtoolkit-master/BHPDtoolkit-master/patches/output~.pd
and failed
tried
C:/Users/BH/Music/pd/BHPDToolkitNEW/BHPDtoolkit-master/BHPDtoolkit-master/abstractions/output~.pd
and *succeeded*

 but that's fine with me!!  A little shell scripting and I get a list
of all the objects used
and exactly the pathname to them. PERFECT!

Be prepared for a lot of output. My patch produced 3758 such lines!

So it may not produce a dependency *tree* like I originally asked for,
but I guess that's not what I really wanted.

Hope this helps someone else...
BH



On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 4:52 PM, William Huston <williamahus...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> My idea is, I want to distribute a patch.
>
> But I build my patches with layers of abstractions.
>
> So I want to make a recursive map of the dependency tree,
> including any external libraries needed, so I can know
> what needs to be included when I distribute the patch.
>
> Has anyone tried this?
>
> I will probably do this with an external program,
> probably Perl (not within Pd).
>
> First it seems I really need to understand how to
> Pd does conflict resolution in case of name clashes.
>
> Next, it seems one must know the search path.
>
> This is a bit easier on Linux systems b/c it just
> requires parsing a flat file.
>
> On Windows it requires parsing the Registry
> (which I admit is still a big mystery for me).
>
> On My machine, I am finding the search path here:
>
>
> HKEY_USERS\S-1-5-21-1970324843-3388967453-2642309065-1000\Software\Classes\VirtualStore\MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\Pd\
>
> npath=12 means 12 directories to search, each being
> path1=(path1)
> path2=(path2)
> ...
> path12=(path12)
>
> I also find this repeated here:
>
>
> HKEY_USERS\S-1-5-21-1970324843-3388967453-2642309065-1000_Classes\VirtualStore\MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\Pd
>
> One question is, where does this strange string come from?
> Is this guaranteed to be the same on every Windows systems?
>
> S-1-5-21-1970324843-3388967453-2642309065-1000
> S-1-5-21-1970324843-3388967453-2642309065-1000_Classes
>
> Ugh. Anyway, just looking for some general guidance here.
>
> Thanks,
> BH
>
> --
> --
> May you, and all beings
> be happy and free from suffering :)
> -- ancient Buddhist Prayer (Metta)
>



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Re: [PD] What is that 4khz whine?

[William Huston]

Thanks Cyrille!

It was my stupid soundcard.

My Asus/AMD motherboard uses an integrated VIA VT2020 audio chip.
Utter crap.

I switched to my iMic USB interface, which has a Phillips UDA1325H/104 or
/106 chip.
*Clean as a whistle!! *

I can't believe I've been dealing with that for 4khz whine (under certain
circumstances) for the last 5 years!

Thanks again,
BH



On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 6:07 AM, cyrille henry <c...@chnry.net> wrote:

> hello,
>
> Le 15/06/2016 07:46, William Huston a écrit :
>
>> Simple square wave patch into a [vcf~] and a [bp~].
>> Pass though 6-stage [lop~ 8000] to try to eliminate
>> harmonics > nyquist (22.5khz).
>> (attached).
>>
>
> This is not a good way to generate an aliased free waveform since all
> foldover frequency under 8KHz will not be removed.
> you should try using a real band limited square oscilator.
>
>
>
>
>> Set the Q to about 3.
>> Now keep the frequency of the oscillator and the filter cutoff freq
>> below 100 hz.
>>
>> Try [bp~] then try [vcf~].
>>
>> No matter what the setting of either (as long as they are both below 100
>> hz),
>> I get I get a strong artifact at 4k, another at 12k, another at 17k.
>>
>
> i can see lot's of crap using your patch, but very few when using a good
> band limited oscilator.
>
>
>> This has been bugging me for months.
>> I can't figure it out.
>>
>> I thought it was super-Nyquist foldover,
>> but the [lop~] didn't eliminate it,
>> and it does not seem dependent on the frequency of the oscillator.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>
> what did you use to record the sound?
>
> cheers
> c
>
>
>> Sample rate=44100 hz. Delay= 80 ms. Blocksize=64.
>> *Pd 0.46.7 on Windows 7. *
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> May you, and all beings
>> be happy and free from suffering :)
>> -- ancient Buddhist Prayer (Metta)
>>
>>
>> ___
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>>
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Re: [PD] Determine library dependency tree for a patch?

[William Huston]

Yes, my plan is to include whatever abstractions in my own libraries.
But I do not know what those dependencies are!!
That is the problem.

My goal is to have a script or program which can
a) examine an arbitrary patch, (example: "BillsPatch.pd") and
b) examine my Pd runtime environment

... and build a dependency tree. Something like this:

$ perl ShowPdDependencyTree.pl BillsPatch.pd


*BillsPatch.pd*

*|\/home/bh/pd/abstractions/BillVerb~.pd*

*|\-- /home/bh/pd/pd-0.43.4-extended/extra/freeverb.ld*





*|\/home/bh/pd/abstractions/flanger~.pd|
\---/home/bh/pd/abstractions/autophase12~.pd|
\---/home/bh/pd/abstractions/autopan12~.pd|
  \--
/home/bh/pd/pd-0.43.4-extended/extra/flatgui/knob.ld|\/home/bh/pd/abstractions/MultiOsc~.pd*

*|*

*. (etc.)..*

Make sense?
I want this to be able to work anywhere why Pd works (OSX, Windows, Linux).

Thanks,
BH




On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 9:30 PM, Lucas Cordiviola 
wrote:

> Hi William,
>
> You can include all the externals that you need in your distribution.
>
> You know that pd-vanilla will be there and you supply a folder (probably
> with sub-folders) with all externals (for all platforms if needed).
>
> Then you simply use [declare]
>
> That`s it.
>
> You can download the zips of the externals with deken or from
> puredata.info.
>
> Hope this helps,
> If you need more clarification on how to do this write back.
>
> Or you are trying to do something that I don't understand.
>
> Salutti,
> Lucarda.
>
> Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
>
> --
> From: williamahus...@gmail.com
> Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 16:52:32 -0400
> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
> Subject: [PD] Determine library dependency tree for a patch?
>
>
> My idea is, I want to distribute a patch.
>
> But I build my patches with layers of abstractions.
>
> So I want to make a recursive map of the dependency tree,
> including any external libraries needed, so I can know
> what needs to be included when I distribute the patch.
>
> Has anyone tried this?
>
> I will probably do this with an external program,
> probably Perl (not within Pd).
>
> First it seems I really need to understand how to
> Pd does conflict resolution in case of name clashes.
>
> Next, it seems one must know the search path.
>
> This is a bit easier on Linux systems b/c it just
> requires parsing a flat file.
>
> On Windows it requires parsing the Registry
> (which I admit is still a big mystery for me).
>
> On My machine, I am finding the search path here:
>
>
> HKEY_USERS\S-1-5-21-1970324843-3388967453-2642309065-1000\Software\Classes\VirtualStore\MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\Pd\
>
> npath=12 means 12 directories to search, each being
> path1=(path1)
> path2=(path2)
> ...
> path12=(path12)
>
> I also find this repeated here:
>
>
> HKEY_USERS\S-1-5-21-1970324843-3388967453-2642309065-1000_Classes\VirtualStore\MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\Pd
>
> One question is, where does this strange string come from?
> Is this guaranteed to be the same on every Windows systems?
>
> S-1-5-21-1970324843-3388967453-2642309065-1000
> S-1-5-21-1970324843-3388967453-2642309065-1000_Classes
>
> Ugh. Anyway, just looking for some general guidance here.
>
> Thanks,
> BH
>
> --
> --
> May you, and all beings
> be happy and free from suffering :)
> -- ancient Buddhist Prayer (Metta)
>
> ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at
> mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>



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[PD] Determine library dependency tree for a patch?

[William Huston]

My idea is, I want to distribute a patch.

But I build my patches with layers of abstractions.

So I want to make a recursive map of the dependency tree,
including any external libraries needed, so I can know
what needs to be included when I distribute the patch.

Has anyone tried this?

I will probably do this with an external program,
probably Perl (not within Pd).

First it seems I really need to understand how to
Pd does conflict resolution in case of name clashes.

Next, it seems one must know the search path.

This is a bit easier on Linux systems b/c it just
requires parsing a flat file.

On Windows it requires parsing the Registry
(which I admit is still a big mystery for me).

On My machine, I am finding the search path here:

HKEY_USERS\S-1-5-21-1970324843-3388967453-2642309065-1000\Software\Classes\VirtualStore\MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\Pd\

npath=12 means 12 directories to search, each being
path1=(path1)
path2=(path2)
...
path12=(path12)

I also find this repeated here:

HKEY_USERS\S-1-5-21-1970324843-3388967453-2642309065-1000_Classes\VirtualStore\MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\Pd

One question is, where does this strange string come from?
Is this guaranteed to be the same on every Windows systems?

S-1-5-21-1970324843-3388967453-2642309065-1000
S-1-5-21-1970324843-3388967453-2642309065-1000_Classes

Ugh. Anyway, just looking for some general guidance here.

Thanks,
BH

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[PD] Clock Sync from Pd to LMMS? (or LMMS to Pd)?

[William Huston]

I want to set up a drum kit and a pattern in LMMS.

Then, I want to be able to start/stop from within Pd,
and be able to sense in Pd where we are inside the pattern.

I'm sorry if this has been answered before.
I've checked and can't find an answer.
How to do this?

Could be EITHER

   - from Pd to LMMS
   - or LMMS to Pd

Thanks.

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Re: [PD] [poly N 0] bug

[William Huston]

Yes, that's what I want, proper mono mode, with opt. auto glissando when 2+
notes are played.

Maybe it's a feature enhancement.

That's the abstraction I'm working on.

I'm trying to implement a 6-element linked list, with push/pop (front of
list), shift/unshift (end of list), and delete... it's possible, but
challenging. Lot of work.

On Sunday, May 15, 2016, Matt Barber <brbrof...@gmail.com> wrote:
> [poly 1 0] means that until its note is released, all incoming notes
between onset and offset of the only voice's note should be completely
invisible to it (that's what "one-voice polyphony with no voice stealing"
should mean, I think). I don't think it should suddenly output the values
of another note that happened to have been depressed and held in the
meantime. I think what you're looking for is something different from the
voice allocation in [poly]; you're looking more for assigning note priority
in monophonic instruments. If I'm understanding you correctly, in order to
do what you want with [poly], you would need to manage a very large
internal polyphony to keep track of all the potential voices that could be
being sustained when a voice receives a note off.
> On Sun, May 15, 2016 at 4:47 AM, William Huston <williamahus...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>
>> Sorry, Sourceforge is blocked for me.
>>
>> I noticed that when using [poly 1 0] (note stealing off)
>> when I would smash multi-note chords and release notes,
>> sometimes I would be left pressing a note,
>> yet the output of [poly] is silence.
>>
>> I thought this might be a bug with the Windows MIDI driver,
>> but it is definitely a bug with [poly], because with higher
>> values of N, [poly N 0] knows the correct notes
>> remaining.
>>
>> See attached ZIP file.
>> There is an HTML+image included which explains
>> how to run the patch to demonstrate the issue.
>>
>> The problem is there is a race condition.
>> Lets say you smash the following chord:
>> ("smash" means play all notes as simultaneously as possible)
>>
>> 24 26 28 29 31 33  [C-D-E-F-G-A]
>>
>> Now the value which will be latched by [poly 1 0] is random.
>> Let's say it is 28.
>>
>> Now we release 33, 31,29  ALL GOOD!
>> Now release 29.
>> NOTE 24, 26, 28 are still depressed!
>> [poly] doesn't know what to do here, and releases 28, ALL NOTES OFF.
Yet I am still holding down 3 notes.
>>
>> The problem here is how do deal with this condition is ambiguous.
>>
>> Should [poly] have "highest note value" priority? (and jump to 26)
>> Or "lowest note value" priority? (and jump to 24)
>> Or "order received" priority? (and jump to to the latest received of
[24,26])
>> Or maybe "reverse order received" priority? (and jump to the earliest
received of [24,26])
>>
>> I would request a feature enhancement to provide some way to set
>> the mode of poly (new inlet, message to inlet1, and/or starting
parameter) to chose one of these four modes.
>>
>> In the meantime, I think I can code my own version of what I need as an
abstraction.
>>
>> Thanks Miller and everyone who contributes here for such an awesome
tool/toy!
>>
>> BH
>> --
>> --
>> May you, and all beings
>> be happy and free from suffering :)
>> -- ancient Buddhist Prayer (Metta)
>>
>> ___
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https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>>
>
>

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Re: [PD] New version of freeverb~ with alternate output option.

[William Huston]

Fred Jan, are you the author of Freeverb?

I have built a "ducking reverb". It's a lot of fun to play with.
I basically send note-on, note-off events
and modulate the "wet" parameter, with a large room size.

Eg., a note-on will trigger Wet to go to Attack_Val
(Usually a low Wet setting) in Attack_ms time.

Then a note-off will trigger sending Wet to Release_Val
(Usually a larger Wet setting) in Release_ms time.

The only problem is, the message changes occur
 at control-rate, so I'm getting clicking.

My question is, is there any advantage or difference
in doing my Wet/Dry mixing internal to [Freeverb~]?

...as opposed setting freeverb to 0% dry and 100% wet
and mixing externally?

Of course I can get signal-rate mixing by using [line~]
if I do this externally.

Thanks,
BH






On Mon, May 9, 2016 at 3:28 PM, Fred Jan Kraan  wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I just completed the upload of an updated version 1.2.2 of freeverb~ to
> puredata.info, and it is available via deken for the usual platforms.
>
> This version of Freeverb~ has three enhancements:
> - placed the fix_denorm_nan_float() function is the signal path,
> - added an alternate output that is closer to reality (in theory anyway),
> - restyled the help patch and fixed the missing wav file.
>
> The github repository is at https://github.com/electrickery/pd-freeverb.
>
> I am looking forward to any comments regarding the alternate output
> feature.
>
>
> Greetings & have fun,
>
> Fred Jan
>
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Re: [PD] [OT] choice of sound cards for 16 output channels

[William Huston]

The Motu is $1000. The Presonus is $500. What about getting 8x 2-channel
USB soundcards? The Griffin iMic is a 2x2 and is $40. So 8x would be $320.

If you look around, you can find 2ch USB audio adapters for $20/each,
$10/each, even $2/each. For that kind of money you could purchase a few and
evaluate them in terms of quality, or maybe read up on what chip they use
and read reviews.

I'm pretty sure Pd supports multiple audio adapters, but have not tested
this.

Please post your results, as I would like to get into ambisonics as well
and be able to drive 8x or more speakers. But I don't want to spend $1000!



On Thursday, May 5, 2016, Jack  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> With the following configuration :
> Ubuntu 16.04
> Pd-0.47.0
>
> I need to find a solution to send sounds on 16 different speakers.
> What is your advice regarding the purchase of USB sound cards under
> Linux with this configuration ? For you, which sound cards are more
> willing to do this job ?
>
> Ciao.
> ++
>
> Jack
>
>
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Re: [PD] Menu fonts much too small on 4k screen

[William Huston]

Fabulous! I have been "wish"ing for this for some time. (forgive the Tk
pun).

Hopefully it will be bound to mouse wheel? (OMG, the answer to my prayers!)



On Sunday, April 10, 2016, Miller Puckette  wrote:
> Are you running Pd extended or vanilla?  I think vanilla at least should
> have teh menus sized OK (although not the objects - see earlier mail by
> Orm Finnendahl).  I'm working on something else just now but hope to put
> out a "zoom" feature in a week or so as  "test" version of Pd vanilla.
>
> cheers
> Miller
>
> On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 02:13:59PM +0200, Csaba Láng wrote:
>> ctrl+T is a good option to adjust the font size of the objects to your
>> needs.
>> About the menu, no idea yet.
>>
>> Best:
>>
>> Popesz
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 11:09 AM, Martin Dupras 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I just acquired a new laptop with a 4K (3840x2160) screen, and am
>> > running Fedora Linux with PlanetCCRMA on it.
>> >
>> > Everything works fine, pretty much, but everything in PD is just too
>> > small. The menus are difficult to read. Objects are also so small that
>> > it makes it difficult to hone in on the outlets of objects.
>> >
>> > Is there some setting that can set at launch to make those things
bigger?
>> >
>> > Many thanks!
>> >
>> > - martin
>> >
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[PD] Spring Reverb?

[William Huston]

Can anyone give any insight on how to model the sound of a spring reverb?

Is it possible by using Freeverb with some filters? Or does it require
IR/Convolution?

I live the twangy rattle sound. So unique.

Thanks.

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Re: [PD] where's extended?

[William Huston]

I would also argue leaving it, but labeled something stronger than
"unmaintained".

I struggled getting -extend running on a Raspberry Pi, tons of weird
stability problems. All were resolved with the latest vanilla.

I presume there are many bug fixes and performance enhancements in the
years since the last -extended release.

Still, I think that release is good as a nice collection of externals.


On Monday, March 28, 2016, Christof Ressi  wrote:
> The link can be still found in "Distributions".
http://puredata.info/downloads/by-category/distribution
> I think one could even add the word "unmaintained" to the caption, to
make it 100% clear.
>
> Also, I found that some (or all?) content in "Distributions" is not up to
date, e.g. "libpd" will lead you to an alpha release from 2010 and a dead
project page.
>
>
>
>
>
> Gesendet: Montag, 28. März 2016 um 17:40 Uhr
> Von: "Matt Barber" 
> An: "Alexandre Torres Porres" 
> Cc: "pd-list@lists.iem.at" 
> Betreff: Re: [PD] where's extended?
> Yeah, there's been a minor freakout on the facebook group. Can the link
be added back with a caveat that it's dead, obsolete, never coming back,
and against all that is good and pure (data) to use?
>
> On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 11:29 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres <
por...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> well, it's not here anymore: http://puredata.info/downloads
>>
>> I know it's a dead project, but why not keep the link to it? Lots of
people still use it.
>>
>> cheers
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Re: [PD] LKFS or LUFS-based compression?

[William Huston]

Thanks Katja.

I did not intend to imply a particular compression method.

I was only asking if anyone has created
a compressor in Pd with the goal of limiting based
on Average Loudness rather than Peak Gain.

I don't really know how it works,
except to guess it is related to
Fletcher–Munson curves.

I want to get into broadcast more.
A LKFS or LUFS external (meter and compressor)
would be very useful.

Limiting based on Loudness is becoming
both a US and EUR broadcast standard,
yet there aren't many tools out there,
it seems.



On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 5:01 AM, katja <katjavet...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Frankly I had to ask Wikipedia what LKFS and LUFS is. They are
> loudness standards, they don't indicate compression method.
>
> Here's a peculiar method which uses detection of instantaneous
> amplitudes instead of peak sample values:
>
> http://www.katjaas.nl/compander/compander.html
>
> From an engineer's viewpoint this approach is highly debatable and you
> wouldn't use it for all purposes. But it reacts super fast to
> transients. I use it on acoustic input in live performance.
>
> Katja
>
> On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 7:51 AM, William Huston
> <williamahus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Has anyone played around with LKFS or LUFS-based
> > "Loudness Compression"?
> >
> > This would be a really handy thing to have
> > for anyone who creates audio for broadcast TV or Radio,
> > or movie scores, etc.
> >
> > When people grab a compressor, this is what
> > we mostly want. However, in my experience,
> > most compressors are peak-level compressors.
> >
> > Thanks for any leads/pointers.
> >
> >
> > --
> > --
> > May you, and all beings
> > be happy and free from suffering :)
> > -- ancient Buddhist Prayer (Metta)
> >
> > ___
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> >
>



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[PD] LKFS or LUFS-based compression?

[William Huston]

Has anyone played around with LKFS or LUFS-based
"Loudness Compression"?

This would be a really handy thing to have
for anyone who creates audio for broadcast TV or Radio,
or movie scores, etc.

When people grab a compressor, this is what
we mostly want. However, in my experience,
most compressors are peak-level compressors.

Thanks for any leads/pointers.


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Re: [PD] what's the deal with [utime] object?

[William Huston]

I really wish Pd had a 32 bit integer data type for counters, and other
places where integers are appropriate.

This problem with single precision floats is my #1 gripe/ buzz-killer

(but overall, I am very, very happy with Pd!)

e.g. I spent aa few hours with it, but was unable to master the onset inlet
of [tabread4~], and find the example to be highly contrived and hard to
understand.

The Perl programming language had a very amazing mechanism. There is only a
"scalar" datatype, which can be (depending on context), a character string,
a float, or an integer.

There was some real genius under the hood which did automatic conversions
when necessary, so the programmer didn't really have to worry about it. The
runtime (a hybrid compiler/interpreter) always would do the right thing.

Not sure if there are any lessons from Perl we can borrow, or if the
intelligence is to costly for real-time.

BH

On Saturday, February 27, 2016, s p  wrote:
> Yes, I guessed the issue was with precision, but in that case why would
anyone want to use it?
> I was about to use [zexy/time], but [utime] would have been so much
simpler in my case ...
>
> On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 10:23 AM, IOhannes m zmölnig 
wrote:
>>
>> On 02/27/2016 12:34 AM, s p wrote:
>> > Hi!
>> >
>> > I am trying to use [utime] to get an absolute date in seconds since
epoch.
>> > However, the number of seconds seems to be rounded, so I don't
understand
>> > how is it of any use!? For example, the following patch prints 0 ...
>> >
>>
>> short answer: single precision floating point precision.
>>
>> depending on your use-case, you probably can use zexy's [date] and
>> [time] objects instead.
>>
>> gmdsar
>> IOhannes
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Sébastien Piquemal
>
>  - @sebpiq
>  - http://github.com/sebpiq
>  - http://funktion.fm
>

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Re: [PD] How's Pd limited?

[William Huston]

My answer is in the form of a Koan:


*If an oscillator's output is not connected to a DAC,*
*does it still make a sound? *

On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 8:49 PM, Matti Viljamaa  wrote:

> Perhaps a bit of broad question, but I find it interesting in order to
> speculate about future additions.
>
> How do you think Pure Data is limited?
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Re: [PD] Slightly OT: Goal for NAMM 2017: Pledge to Support Open Source

[William Huston]

My main point is that manufactures like Korg should not have secret API's.

I have a Microkey-37, and several simple things (like how to change
velocity curves, and whether LEDs are locally or remotely set) are not
documented in their published MIDI implementation. They probably use SYSEX
messages, but why keep it a secret? The only way to access this stuff now
is either a) reverse engineer, or b) pay Microsoft/Apple for aa commercial
OS and use Korg's closed-source app.

Korg also bundles software for stand-alone or VST instruments, which also
only run on proprietary OS'es. So there are two solutions here:

1) unbundle the software so I don't have to pay for the same softsynth each
time I purchase a controller--my preferred solution,  OR 2) give us a
softsynth which is open-source and runs on Linux.

Of course we Pd hackers like to write our own. :)

I'm just saying, if they force us to purchase bundled software, at least
make it open source and hackable. That would add some value to me.


On Friday, January 22, 2016, Pagano, Patrick <p...@digitalworlds.ufl.edu>
wrote:
>
>
> Good Idea William but i always thought things like Pure Data were there
SO we could develop said products. And i DO boot windows for Touch Designer
but frankly little else. I took the leap and moved to Macintosh when PD was
released and have always dual booted linux:Ubuntu on it.
>
> I have also found the proprietary features are rarely "all that"
> I did recently on a whim buy a KARP Odyssesy but mostly because it had a
CVin/out TrigI/O and GateI/O
>
> :-)
>
>
>
>
>
> Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A
> Audio and Projection Design Faculty
> Digital Worlds Institute
> University of Florida, USA
> (352)294-2020
> 
> From: Pd-list <pd-list-boun...@mail.iem.at> on behalf of phil jones <
inters...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Friday, January 22, 2016 6:14:15 AM
> To: William Huston
> Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at
> Subject: Re: [PD] Slightly OT: Goal for NAMM 2017: Pledge to Support Open
Source
>
> William,
>
> have you thought of trying one of the "make a petition" sites, like
https://www.change.org/ , http://www.thepetitionsite.com/media-arts-culture/
, .http://www.avaaz.org/en/ etc?
>
> If one of these platforms were suitable to host it then that would
definitely help.
>
> Phil
>
> On 21 January 2016 at 21:53, William Huston <williamahus...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for all who responded with early feedback :)
>>
>> I think the plan should be
>>
>> 1) Form a small committee to draft the
>> "Pledge to Support Open Source Community"
>> with the target being manufactures of synthesizers,
>>  controllers, and other MIDI devices.
>>
>> 2) Recruit the Top 10 or 25 big names to sign on to the letter.
>>
>> 3) A general petition for all others.
>>
>> If anyone wants to be on the committee to create
>> the first draft, please contact me off-list.
>>
>> Thanks!!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 5:10 PM, phil jones <inters...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I will totally sign a petition on this. And forward it to every
musician I know.
>>>
>>> Phil
>>>
>>> On 21 January 2016 at 17:08, William Huston <williamahus...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I hope you all consider this an appropriate post for this list.
>>>>
>>>> I have been very upset at a certain manufacturer which I have decades
of experience owning their products.
>>>>
>>>> I love their machines! But they are pissing me off by doing things
like:
>>>>
>>>> 1) Bundle software which only runs on Proprietary Operating Systems.
>>>>
>>>> This is an excuse to increase street price. Linux users who want just
the hardware are forced to pay for something they do not want and cannot
use.
>>>>
>>>> 2) Publishing only a partial MIDI implementation
>>>>
>>>> 3) Using a secret API which only their closed source Editor can
access, and which only runs on Windows or MacOS. ($$$).
>>>>
>>>> So if I want a Korg product (like their new Microkey Studio!!! I have
the perfect application for this!!!), then I must also pay Microsoft or
Apple, in order to fully use the thing. I must also must pay a premium for
software I  cannot use and may not want or need.
>>>>
>>>> I do not think this is fair or right!
>>>>
>>>> Here's an idea:
>>>>
>>>> NAMM is going on right now. This is a time when all of the
manufacturers all get together.
>>>>
>>>> I think the Open Source commu

[PD] Slightly OT: Goal for NAMM 2017: Pledge to Support Open Source

[William Huston]

I hope you all consider this an appropriate post for this list.

I have been very upset at a certain manufacturer which I have decades of
experience owning their products.

I love their machines! But they are pissing me off by doing things like:


*1) Bundle software which only runs on Proprietary Operating Systems.*
This is an excuse to increase street price. Linux users who want just the
hardware are forced to pay for something they do not want and cannot use.


*2) Publishing only a partial MIDI implementation*
*3) Using a secret API* which only their *closed source Editor* can access,
and which only runs on *Windows or MacOS*. ($$$).

So *if I want a Korg product* (like their new Microkey Studio!!! I have the
perfect application for this!!!), *then I must also pay Microsoft or Apple,
in order to fully use the thing*. I must also must pay a premium for
software I  cannot use and may not want or need.


*I do not think this is fair or right!*

Here's an idea:

NAMM is going on right now. This is a time when all of the manufacturers
all get together.

I think the Open Source community has a lot of clout now.

My idea is to draft a *Pledge to Support Open Source Community*, which we
will try to get manufacturers support for by the next 2017 NAMM.

My list so far is this:

1) *Publish full MIDI standard. **No hidden APIs *which only closed-source
tools, which only run on  Windows or Mac can access.

2) *Unbundle the hardware from the optional software*. Don't force a linux
hardware owner to pay for software he cannot use.

3) Consider including *sample editors *or *performance programs *as
hackable *C programs,* *Perl *or *Python *scripts, and also *sample patches
*in popular *open-source music programs *such as *CSound, SuperCollider*,
or *Pure Data*.

Does anyone want to be a co-signer on this,
or have anything to add?


*I think it would be awesome to get the top 10-20 people*

*in Open Source Music world to endorse this first thing. *
People like
*Miller, Onyx Ashanti, Ico, Julius O. Smith, *

*Servando, Katja, Alexandre, Matt, IOhannes, Cheeto,*
*Richard Stallman*, ... c'mon people, help me out...

Wow, that would pack a whallop!
I think we could have a major impact on hardware manufacturers.

This is a way for me to take my complaint with Korg and make this a
campaign which could help users of other H/W vendors stuff as well.

Thoughts?
BH

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Re: [PD] Slightly OT: Goal for NAMM 2017: Pledge to Support Open Source

[William Huston]

Thanks for all who responded with early feedback :)

I think the plan should be

1) Form a small committee to draft the
"*Pledge to Support Open Source Community*"
with the target being
*manufactures of synthesizers, controllers, and other MIDI devices. *

2) Recruit the Top 10 or 25 big names to sign on to the letter.

3) A general petition for all others.

If anyone wants to be on the committee to create
the first draft, please contact me off-list.

Thanks!!



On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 5:10 PM, phil jones <inters...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I will totally sign a petition on this. And forward it to every musician I
> know.
>
> Phil
>
> On 21 January 2016 at 17:08, William Huston <williamahus...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I hope you all consider this an appropriate post for this list.
>>
>> I have been very upset at a certain manufacturer which I have decades of
>> experience owning their products.
>>
>> I love their machines! But they are pissing me off by doing things like:
>>
>>
>> *1) Bundle software which only runs on Proprietary Operating Systems.*
>> This is an excuse to increase street price. Linux users who want just the
>> hardware are forced to pay for something they do not want and cannot use.
>>
>>
>> *2) Publishing only a partial MIDI implementation*
>> *3) Using a secret API* which only their *closed source Editor* can
>> access, and which only runs on *Windows or MacOS*. ($$$).
>>
>> So *if I want a Korg product* (like their new Microkey Studio!!! I have
>> the perfect application for this!!!), *then I must also pay Microsoft or
>> Apple, in order to fully use the thing*. I must also must pay a premium
>> for software I  cannot use and may not want or need.
>>
>>
>> *I do not think this is fair or right!*
>>
>> Here's an idea:
>>
>> NAMM is going on right now. This is a time when all of the manufacturers
>> all get together.
>>
>> I think the Open Source community has a lot of clout now.
>>
>> My idea is to draft a *Pledge to Support Open Source Community*, which
>> we will try to get manufacturers support for by the next 2017 NAMM.
>>
>> My list so far is this:
>>
>> 1) *Publish full MIDI standard. **No hidden APIs *which only
>> closed-source tools, which only run on  Windows or Mac can access.
>>
>> 2) *Unbundle the hardware from the optional software*. Don't force a
>> linux hardware owner to pay for software he cannot use.
>>
>> 3) Consider including *sample editors *or *performance programs *as
>> hackable *C programs,* *Perl *or *Python *scripts, and also *sample
>> patches *in popular *open-source music programs *such as *CSound,
>> SuperCollider*, or *Pure Data*.
>>
>> Does anyone want to be a co-signer on this,
>> or have anything to add?
>>
>>
>> *I think it would be awesome to get the top 10-20 people*
>>
>> *in Open Source Music world to endorse this first thing. *
>> People like
>> *Miller, Onyx Ashanti, Ico, Julius O. Smith, *
>>
>> *Servando, Katja, Alexandre, Matt, IOhannes, Cheeto,*
>> *Richard Stallman*, ... c'mon people, help me out...
>>
>> Wow, that would pack a whallop!
>> I think we could have a major impact on hardware manufacturers.
>>
>> This is a way for me to take my complaint with Korg and make this a
>> campaign which could help users of other H/W vendors stuff as well.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>> BH
>>
>> --
>> --
>> May you, and all beings
>> be happy and free from suffering :)
>> -- ancient Buddhist Prayer (Metta)
>>
>> ___
>> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>>
>>
>


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[PD] FM matrix with feedback

[William Huston]

You may want to look at Martin Brinkmann's patch Chaosmonster1.

http://www.martin-brinkmann.de/pd-patches.html

I studied it about a year ago, and gave up trying to understand how it
works. But it makes fantastic noises.

Martin says it "generates noise- and 'chaos'-sounds with six oscillators
with mutual frequency, filter and ringmodulation. Some similarities
to the famous 'heishere' reaktor ensemble by lazyfish."



On Friday, January 8, 2016, i go bananas  wrote:
> Hi all, hope everyone's well.
>
> We're trying to implement a 4-op FM matrix with feedback, copying a patch
my friend made in reaktor using a block size of 1 (sorry, don't know the
full details of that, but he says he can get 1 sample delay for the
feedback)
>
> Has anyone ever succeeded doing something like this in pd?  I know about
the order forcing using subpatches like in G.05.execution.order help patch,
but that doesn't seem like it will work here, as we still get DSP loop
errors when trying to connect the output of one osc~ back into the
frequency input of the others.
>
> I'm really looking for a solution that doesn't involve using blocksize of
1, and anyway, even doing that, still seems the only way to do feedback
without getting DSP loop errors is with s~ / r~ pairs, which seem to only
work at blocksize of 64 anyway?
> I don't mind adding a bit of latency to the whole system if there's maybe
a hack to do this with tables or something,,,but am really stuck here
wondering what to do.
>
> any ideas?
> cheers, Matt

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Re: [PD] [pix_data] - convert rgb values to pd canvas format

[William Huston]

Well if there are 4x 8 bit values (RGB+alpha) =32 bits trying to be
encoded/decoded into a single precision float, there will be loss of
fidelity.

It amazes me that it works for encoding 24 bit values (I tested it for RGB
only and can send a demo patch, or check the one Katja posted here:
http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2015-12/112694.html )

Check out Katja's page and video about "Pd Double" for the best explanation
of this problem.

I personally wish there was a 32 bit integer data type in Pd for counters
and binary registers and such, which I know will never get converted into
floats, and risk strange rounding errors or noise in the Least Significant
Bits.


On Thursday, December 31, 2015, João Pais  wrote:
> Ok. Do you know what should be done to convert to Pd's rgb format?
>
>> I'm pretty sure the 4th value is alpha
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Dec 31, 2015, at 7:53 AM, João Pais  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello list,
>>>
>>> I'm trying to use [pix_data] to get the RGB values from an image, and
color a canvas using them. But the results come out a bit weird, as not all
colors match.
>>>
>>> I can try to some a more detailed patch in a couple of days, but wanted
to ask first the there is any example of how to use the values coming out
of [pix_data]:
>>> - should the gray value be used?
>>> - the middle outlet should send a list of RGB values, but I noticed
that instead a list of 4 values comes out. This isn't documented, what is
the 4th value?
>>>
>>> Attached are 2 pictures that should exemplifiy the issue:
>>> - rgb.tif - a rgb palette
>>> - rgb-conv.tif - the result after my interpretation of the data
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Joao
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: [PD] Jack support for 0.46-7 / Arm V7?

[William Huston]

OK thx.

I must move my Raspbian install
to a bigger Micro SD.
Then I will try compiling w/Jack.

Year end message
to Miller and support community:

10 billion thanks for Pd!
I think it's really wonderful!

(even with its few warts :)

BH


On Wednesday, December 30, 2015, Miller Puckette <m...@ucsd.edu> wrote:
> Yep, I compiled that without jack.  I believe jack is now stable on Pi so
> I should start compiling with jack support in the future.
>
> cheers
> Miller
>
> On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 05:09:42PM -0500, William Huston wrote:
>> It does not appear this version has Jack support compiled in.
>>
>> Is this correct?
>> & intentional?
>>
>> If so, I guess I have to compile it myself. Just want to make sure.
Thanks.
>>
>> --
>> --
>> May you, and all beings
>> be happy and free from suffering :)
>> -- ancient Buddhist Prayer (Metta)
>
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[PD] Sending [color $1( or [size $1( type messages to objects

[William Huston]

Hi --

1: Is the technique of setting object attributes via messages documented
anywhere?

   (x2.html has most things, but I don't see this.)

2: Is there a list of all the standard objects, and the names of all
attributes (methods) which are settable via messages?
(A language specification or reference should have this)

3: If I send the message [color $1(  to an object, say a tgl,
it seems to follow an index into a table (modulo 30)
which corresponds to the little table that comes up in
the object properties dialog box:


​
So my last question is, can I rely on that table staying
the same across all versions of PD? Will index 13 always
be Red?

(In Yoda speak, "Faith in this I do not have")

4: Can I change that table?

5: I would prefer to set an object's color via an RGB value
Can I do that?

Thanks!

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Re: [PD] Please move bug tracking OFF Sourceforge.

[William Huston]

OK, will do.

On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 6:41 PM, Dan Wilcox <danomat...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Instead of harping about it, you could offer your time to help accomplish
> this or propose solutions on pd-dev. It’s not for lack of desire but effort
> on a rather non-fun job ...
>
> This has been brought up before and I’m sure Jonathan will follow up soon.
>
> (I will also end with a “Thanks”)
>
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika <https://twitter.com/danomatika>
> danomatika.com
> robotcowboy.com
>
> On Dec 20, 2015, at 4:07 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
>
> *From: *William Huston <williamahus...@gmail.com>
> *Subject: **[PD] Please move bug tracking OFF Sourceforge.*
> *Date: *December 20, 2015 at 3:44:27 PM MST
> *To: *"pd-list@lists.iem.at" <pd-list@lists.iem.at>
>
>
> Please move bug tracking OFF Sourceforge.
>
> It is a well known fact that SF has joined the Dark Side,
> inserts malware into installers,
> and is blocked by many browsers.
>
> I cannot post a bug now because of a malware blocker
> *which I do not feel like disabling. *
>
> For a *major* Open-Source software development project
> to remain partners w/SF at this point *is not acceptable*.
>
> Thanks,
> BH
>
>
>


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Re: [PD] Regression Issue/Bug: Range-limited [hsl] responds differently on out-of-range input

[William Huston]

Thanks for the fast response, Dan.

> Also judging form the commit, you can simply launch pd with an older
compatibly mode.

>From the update summary:

updates to other guis. sliders and radios now pass values through without
quantizing them, and toggles don't reset their non-zero values on incoming
float messages.  Reverts to old behavior if "pd cpmpatibility" is set
<= 0.45  (change committed Aug 4, 2014)



*Well "quantizing" is different from range-limiting. *I actuallly raised
the issue about quantizing on FB here: (March 9, 2015) but not on pd-list.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/4729684494/permalink/10152864120779495/

I've added the range limit issue to the bottom here.


​(apologies to anyone with a text-based email client)

Also, the "pd cpmpatibility*" *(and is that a typo?) mode is not ideal IMO
because there are other side-effects, i.e., effect on toggles.

I think the proper behavior is that

*when sliders pass input, the value is identical to the input, i.e., not
"quantized" by e.g., a log-slider AND ALSO respects range-limits (if
specified). *

The general rule being, that if you want to create a change in behavior, PD
should default to the OLD, behavior to maintain regression compatibility

Unless the behavior is very badly broken. Quantization is such an example
of "badly broken" IMO, as it is a side-effect, where floats are subtly and
unexpected modified (and can become large changes if these floats are taken
as integers (or compared as integers).

It is perfectly reasonable to expect specified range-limits to be respected
by input messages, and rather surprising to me that they are not.

Also, there is a very easy workaround (assuming the OLD behavior of HSL):

source
| \
| \
[hsl]   \
|non-range limited output here
|
range limited output here


*Again-- this should be caught by a full suite of regression tests. *

*Do they exist?*

Regression tests should make sure that the language specification is
followed, and errors are not introduced in new versions.

If there are no regression tests,
then maybe there is no language specification...?





*Look, how are we going to get the US Department of Defense to accept PD
for MILSPEC applications like this!?   (It's a joke!)*Thanks,
BH



On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 6:55 PM, Dan Wilcox <danomat...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Judging from this commit, the new behavior is by design:
> https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/commit/f0a3a0c621dacc1f617cf07b38d8dc563703d12e
>
> I seem to remember a long discussion where people *did not* like the
> clipping behavior. The rational was that the min/max values are meant for
> the UI min and max without enforcing direct clipping which you can do using
> [clip] explicitly.
>
> Also judging form the commit, you can simply launch pd with an older
> compatibly mode.
>
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika <https://twitter.com/danomatika>
> danomatika.com
> robotcowboy.com
>
> On Dec 20, 2015, at 4:07 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
>
> *From: *William Huston <williamahus...@gmail.com>
> *Subject: **[PD] Regression Issue/Bug: Range-limited [hsl] responds
> differently on out-of-range input*
> *Date: *December 20, 2015 at 4:06:36 PM MST
> *To: *"pd-list@lists.iem.at" <pd-list@lists.iem.at>
>
>
> Regression Issue/Bug:
>
>
> *Issue: Range-limited [hsl] responds differently on out-of-range input*
>
> *PD Versions: 0.43.4-extended vs 0.46.7*
>
>
> *OS: Raspbian *
>
>
>
>
> *The patch is:[1000(|*
>
>
> *[hsl] # range limted 0-127 (default setting)|*
>
> *[nbx]  *
>
>
>
> *Upon a bang to the message box, 0.43.4-extended the answer is 127.*
> *On 0.46.7 the answer is 1000. *
>
>
>


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[PD] Regression Issue/Bug: Range-limited [hsl] responds differently on out-of-range input

[William Huston]

Regression Issue/Bug:


*Issue: Range-limited [hsl] responds differently on out-of-range input*

*PD Versions: 0.43.4-extended vs 0.46.7*


*OS: Raspbian *




*The patch is:[1000(|*


*[hsl] # range limted 0-127 (default setting)|*

*[nbx]  *



*Upon a bang to the message box, 0.43.4-extended the answer is 127.*

*On 0.46.7 the answer is 1000. *

I feel because the [hsl] is range limited,
127 is the right answer.
*Output should respect the limited range. *



​
thanks,
BH

(Forgive me for the inline graphic.
I reduced as much as I could, 2kb-4bit gif)



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[PD] PD "native" scripting language (was: Re: Pd-list Digest, Vol 129, Issue 26

[William Huston]

On Monday, December 7, 2015, Dan Wilcox  wrote:
> In 2016 it will be *trivial* to install a scripting language external
such as pdlua via the deken plugin which will be included in the next Pd
vanilla version release …

I will be interested in seeing how this works.

Since Perl is my favorite, I was just thinking today about something like
"mod_perl" for Apache, but for PD-- a persistent Perl program which PD can
pass of certain tasks to.

Things like complex data structures (associative arrays, or
multi-dimensional arrays) and regular expression parsing I find is so much
easier in Perl (but I'm only about 1.5 years into PD, so there are likely
many cool tricks I haven't learned yet).

I'm thinking about implementing my Chord Library gizmo in Perl, but I don't
want to pay for the overhead of invoking the Perl compiler with each
[shell].

For now, I'm considering just starting my Perl agent as a daemon, and
communicating to PD via local sockets...


> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika
> danomatika.com
> robotcowboy.com
>
> On Dec 7, 2015, at 2:23 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> From: Lorenzo Sutton 
> Date: December 7, 2015 at 2:23:40 PM MST
> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
> Subject: Re: [PD] get filenames from directory
>
>
> On 07/12/15 17:26, Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list wrote:
>
> It's not possible with Vanilla objects.
>
> In 2016 it would really be nice for Pd *Vanilla* to allow *natively* the
use of some scripting language. My personal fav would be Python, but I'd be
happy with anything really...
>
> After the heated debates about luscious beizer curved chords and
gradients in 2013, I this is still miss this feature more than any sexy GUI
- :-)
>
> Lorenzo.
>

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Re: [PD] Getting off the ground with OSC

[William Huston]

Thank you Roman!

I very much appreciate this, and also your prior invitation to participate
in NetPD jams.

I hadn't realized that you'd already solved many of these problems.

I'll be in touch off-list.
I am very excited about collaboration. :)



On Friday, December 4, 2015, Roman Haefeli <reduz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey William
>
> netpd does a lot already of what you describe. It's used  for both,
> syncing between clients, but also for saving and restoring presets.
>
> The design of netpd is quite similar to your proposal. Instruments are
> assigned a numeric id so that they can be treated separately when
> storing or dumping a state. So we have instrument name spaces:
>
> /1/mysynth
> /2/othersynth
> /3/mysynth
>
> Each parameter of an instruments is managed by a data container
> abstractions. The simplest case would be a single numeric value:
>
> [netpd_f $1 freq 440]
>
> The $1 is the id of the instrument and 'freq' is the parameter name. The
> abstraction dumps the value with the correct OSC address on request and
> also listens on any changes for the given address. The full OSC address
> of above example parameter would be (inside first instance of mysynth):
>
> /1/mysynth/freq 440
>
> Assume you have submodule that you use in many instruments. In your
> instrument you would instantiate it as [mymodule $1 instancename].
> Inside that submodule you may have data containers as described above.
> Those would be instantiated like this:
>
> [netpd_f $1 $2/freq 440]
>
> The OSC address of a parameter inside the instrument's submodule would
> then be:
>
> /1/mysynth/instancename/freq 440
>
> You can nest that as deep as you want. Then things are possible to
> address all freq parameters in each of the submodules with
>
> /1/mysynth/*/freq
>
> Now, in order to retrieve the whole state of your instrument, each
> instrument has exactly one instance of [netpd_head], which is kind of
> the state manager of the instrument:
>
> [netpd_head $1 mysynth]
>
> (This assumes that you load your instrument as an abstraction and give
> it a unique id as argument, like [mysynth 1])
>
> This abstraction listens on the address:
>
> /1/mysynth/dump/request
>
> And triggers a dump of all parameters in the instrument (including all
> submodules and sub-submodules) so that they send their current state
> each with the correct address.
>
> I'd be very glad if we could work together on this, rather than you and
> me work on separate frameworks. My reasoning is that I'd love to use
> your instruments in netpd ;-)
>
> Roman
>
>
> On Thu, 2015-12-03 at 12:11 -0500, William Huston wrote:
>> How many people are using OSC for automation, and/or persistence
>> (store/recall)?
>>
>> I'm trying to establish a standard for automation of my own library of
>> modules (abstractions).  Note that I have no plans at the moment for
>> using OSC for network remote control. I only want to use the OSC
>> hierarchical way of addressing components, like
>>
>>
>> /Instrument/Component/SubComponent/Parameter
>>
>>
>>
>> But once this is done, network control is easy.
>>
>>
>>
>> Basic Address Space questions
>>
>>
>> Like, let's say I have an instrument called Screech. Inside, there are
>> 4 MultiOsc modules 1-4. Each MultiOsc has several things which can be
>> set, like Sine, Saw, PWM, Noise, etc.
>>
>> So does it make sense to have my address space look like this:
>>
>> /Screech/MultiOsc*/Sine = 0.5  # sets this parameter in all instances
>> /Screech/MultiOsc1/Freq = 110
>> /Screech/MultiOsc2/Freq = 220
>> /Screech/MultiOsc3/Freq = 440
>> /Screech/MultiOsc4/Freq = 0
>>
>> ...etc...
>>
>> Or should I make each instance of MultiOsc addressable like this:
>>
>> /Screech/MultiOsc/*/Sine = 0.5
>> /Screech/MultiOsc/1/Freq = 110
>> /Screech/MultiOsc/2/Freq = 220
>> /Screech/MultiOsc/3/Freq = 440
>
>
>> OSC for Persistance (SAVE/RECALL of patch settings)
>>
>>
>>
>> One thing that frustrates me is when I build a large and wonderful
>> patch, and find some settings I like, when I exit PD all those
>> settings are lost.
>>
>>
>> My style of building instruments is to build patches from a library of
>> small modules (abstractions) as building blocks which I string
>> together to make high-level instruments.
>>
>>
>> (I am only stating this because I notice that some people build
>> instruments from the basic elements each time)
>>
>>
>> I want to develop a library of abstractions which have persist

Re: [PD] Getting off the ground with OSC

[William Huston]

Thanks Michael. If others are following along, I'm just posting the link to
SL's OSC implementation.

(This app looks exciting to play with apart from the OSC discussion!)

http://essej.net/sooperlooper/doc_osc.html

On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 9:35 PM, michael noble <loop...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 2:11 AM, William Huston <williamahus...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> So does it make sense to have my address space look like this:
>>
>> /Screech/MultiOsc*/Sine = 0.5  # sets this parameter in all instances
>> /Screech/MultiOsc1/Freq = 110
>> /Screech/MultiOsc2/Freq = 220
>> /Screech/MultiOsc3/Freq = 440
>> /Screech/MultiOsc4/Freq = 0
>> ...etc...
>>
>> Or should I make each instance of MultiOsc addressable like this:
>>
>> /Screech/MultiOsc/*/Sine = 0.5
>> /Screech/MultiOsc/1/Freq = 110
>> /Screech/MultiOsc/2/Freq = 220
>> /Screech/MultiOsc/3/Freq = 440
>>
>
> For me the SooperLooper OSC implementation seems quite well-thought out.
> Ardour also has quite a thorough and robust implementation. Although they
> are not PD, you may want to look at these applications for some guidance.
> Both use the latter method (although omit the equals sign) which seems far
> easier when routing and so on. Rather than asterisk, SooperLooper uses 0
> for all loops, which is something you might consider as well...
>



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Re: [PD] unauthorized in vanilla

[William Huston]

Check the help page on the [import] command.

The other way is to add the library location to the search path.
Something like: Edit->Preferences->Path (depends slightly upon version)


On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 7:33 PM, school shoes 
wrote:

> hello,
>
> I am using pd vanilla 0.46.7 on osx yosemite
>
> i need to use a few objects from extended, so have simply copied the
> library folders i need from extended into Library/Pd
>
> then in vanilla  [declare cyclone], or [cyclone/zl] - which works fine
>
> However i would like to use [grid] from unauthorized library. when i
> follow the same procedure
>
>  [declare unauthorized] and [grid] , or [unauthorized/grid]
>
> i get
>
> /Users/schoolshoes/Library/Pd/unauthorized/grid.pd_darwin:
> dlopen(/Users/schoolshoes/Library/Pd/unauthorized/grid.pd_darwin, 10):
> Library not loaded: @executable_path/../../lib/libspeex.1.dylib
>   Referenced from:
> /Users/schoolshoes/Library/Pd/unauthorized/grid.pd_darwin
>   Reason: image not found
>
> (i installed the deken plugin to try that way but only windows and linux
> versions seem to be available for unauthorized)
>
> how can I use unauthorized and [grid] in vanilla?
>
> many thanks
>
> s
>
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[PD] Cheap multi-channel audio solution?

[William Huston]

Is it possible on Linux and/or Raspbian to take have
two USB audio cards and reference them like:

[dac~ 1 2 3 4]

Where 1,2 belong to soundcard A
and 3,4 belong to a soundcard B?


*The reason is that apparently there is massive*
*price gouging on multichannel USB interfaces.*

For example, a Griffin iMic costs $40/USD.
This is 2x2 of crystal clear audio.
So 4x @ 2x2 = 8x8.

So the price for an 8x8 should be $40x4=$160, right?
Or less. Generally you should get a price break
when buying more of the same.

Yet it seems that most 8x8 audio interfaces
are in the range of $600-$900!! (USD).
This seems like 4x to 6x more money than it should be.

So multiple $40 2x2s would be a very cheap alternative
to getting a single 8x8. If it works. (if PD supports it).

PS: in case you don't know, USB 2,0 supports lots of audio!
 I was worried about saturating USB bus, and having audio compete for live
data from MIDI controllers. But no worries!

I just did the calculation.
*Max practical from USB 2.0 is 35 MB/s*.
2 channels of 24 bit (3 bytes/sample) audio at 48khz
= 2x3x48k
=288kB/s for 2 channels.

35MB/288kBs=


* ~122 pairs of audio = 243 total channels possible on USB 2.0. Wow!
Streaming audio may have some overhead, but even if you knock off 1/3 of
that, still leaves a lot of room.*

*USB 1.1 would be 243/40 = 6 total channels. (e.g., 2 in, 4 out).*



*So you definitely want to be running USB 2.0 if you are running 2in x 2out
+ midi controllers. *
I know lots of people using USB audio on the Raspberry Pi report having
problems running at USB2.0 "High Speed" = 480 Mbit/s, and have to set their
interface to USB 1.1. (12 Mbits/s). But I am so-far able to run at full
USB2.0 speeds with my Pi-2 and the Griffin iMic.

The Pi-2 will DEFINITELY keep up audio-wise, as my latest patch (12-channel
flanger) has at least 12 discrete channels of audio simultaneously at one
point, but there are many more internal nets
running audio.

I think most complex patches could easily have 24-50 internal nets running
audio. Which means even on a Pi-2, PD can definitely do complex stuff and
still easily support e.g., 8in x 8out.

So the theory is all there--- has anyone done it?

(Cheap multi-channel audio with PD over USB 2.0
using multiple sound cards... or any other solutions???)

Thanks!
BH



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Re: [PD] chord libraries?

[William Huston]

No worries, Matt!! One thing I love about this community is, that while
there is complete love for newbies--

(e.g. my first (and ugliest!) snare patch I posted to the Facebook group
got like 30 likes!!)

-- I feel there is also a gentle demand (and sometimes not so gentle) for
intellectual rigor, scientific investigation, completeness in the solution.
A kind of technical aesthetic. I really appreciate that.

So I do appreciate all of these comments --

Miller your comment about Varese made me laugh... when I dreamed up that
ugly tetrachord of all minor seconds, I immediately thought of Frank Zappa
and the "Zappa Cluster". I think he studied with Varese

But I am caught between dealing with a broad robust complete solution, and
also something I can reasonable a) get my head around, and b) deal with
using my existing controllers.

I just want to play around with some chord maps, like Stephen Mugglin's.
And just see where that goes. I have an existing pad controller, and I
think I can map a subset of it. Pick a chord with my left had on the pad
controller, and pick a tonic with the keyboard on the right. I want to
build a sophisticated Autoharp with PD :)




I will keep in mind general applicability, and completeness, which I hear
from your comments.

However-- any instrument or song made with it, or the scale mode it uses...
is a limited subset of possibilities. Like Iambic Pentameter. Or Haiku.
It's an artificially imposed limitation on the field of all possibilities.

It's not all possible chords --whatever that means! e.g. combinations of
notes made of tone timbres composed of sinusoids with certain mathematical
relationships between partials... but it is a *subset* of these.

And while yes I appreciate the links to the microtonal stuff, I just cannot
deal with that now! Ha ha. I love listening to it-- like this guy...
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWCwMW48FO4>
But it's *way *beyond my present understanding... I'm sticking with 12TET
for the moment... while acknowledging other realms exist.

In some ways, it seems the limitations of structure
(like 12 TET or Iambic Pentameter, or only using
a subset of all possible chords, etc)
can inspire the movements within the creative work.

So I am actually fine with dealing with just the chords on the
Mugglin Chord Map. I understand that this is a very incomplete
solution.

Many thanks for the link to Tonnetz!

Again, I appreciate all of the guidance and suggestions!
BH



On Tuesday, November 3, 2015, Matt Barber <brbrof...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I hate to be a pedant/ass about this, but it's important to indicate the
scope of application. Most music (I'm not sure about "most songs") doesn't
use chords at all – chords are mostly a Western phenomenon (with some
important exceptions, e.g. Central Africa).
> All 29 tetrachord types can be found in:
> Western classical music of the last 100 years (at least)
> Jazz
> And if you count melodic structures as well:
> South Indian (Carnatic) ragas
> Western classical music of the last 300 years (at least)
> Prog Rock
> etc.
> That cluster is sometimes called the chromatic tetrachord, 0123, 4-1, the
B-A-C-H tetrachord, or something like "the four-note chromatic cluster." It
functions in lots of music, but probably not the kind modeled by the map
you linked to.
> If you're looking for chord maps, do you know about Tonnetze?
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonnetz
>
> It says almost nothing about syntax -- the map you linked to is a syntax
graph -- but it does systemize some tonal relations.
> On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 1:59 PM, William Huston <williamahus...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Matt!
>>
>> Yeah, I'm pretty good with the mathematics of permutations and
combinations...
>>
>> My goal is to be able to generate (and hopefully identify, given a list
of MIDI notes) any given chord/inversion. Which somewhat restricts these to
"musical" chords.
>>
>> I think a cluster, a tetrachord of all minor 2nds is not terribly useful
and probably doesn't have a name. Yes it is good to characterize it for
completeness :)
>>
>> My main purpose now is to build an instrument which allows me to
traverse a "chord map", which generally follows how most songs are
structured. With an easy way to change the tonic, make inversions, and
maybe throw in some substitutions.
>>
>> I have a 4x4 drum pad controller, which I want to use to play a drone
chord, and move through a map, while I play a lead with my right hand.
>>
>> I really like what this guy has done (but there are many maps like this):
>>
>> http://mugglinworks.com/chordmaps/genmap.htm
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 3, 2015, Matt Barber <brbrof...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > I just remembered this Julian Hook article on Music Theory Online, i

Re: [PD] Understanding the mechanics of rebuilding Pd's DSP graph

[William Huston]

Got it. Thanks.

On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 2:47 PM, IOhannes m zmölnig <zmoel...@iem.at> wrote:

> On 11/23/2015 07:56 PM, William Huston wrote:
> >> what qualifies as a "complex orphaned network"?
> [...]
> >
> > A tilde object is "active" (not orphaned) when its output is connected to
> > any object which stores computed audio in memory, or sends audio
> > external to PD,  like [dac~], [tabwrite~], or [writesf~].
> >
> > (OK-- externals become tricky, as PD's DSP compiler needs to understand
> > wither the external object sends audio outside PD, such as across
> > a network, or stores audio in memory)
>
> (does [hip~] store audio in memory?)
>
> how is Pd supposed to know "this"?
>
> the problem with all this is, that the entire scheme for saving CPU
> cycles will be screwed if you there is a single object in your
> to-be-orphaned network of which you don't know whether it has
> "side-effects" (as in I/O; but also any other side-effect) or not.
>
> > A [throw~] / [catch~] network is orphaned if the output of [catch~]
> > is connected to an orphaned tilde network.
> >
> > These kinds of orphans (at least for PD vanilla objects)
> > should be easy to detect
>
> since Pd allows an external to override built-in classes, you don't even
> know whether a sole unconnected [osc~] object does not phone home.
>
> (though you probably can still find out whether any given object is
> constructed from an external or "built-in")
>
> in any case, the suggestion boils down to maintaining a "whitelist" of
> objects-without-sideeffects, which is fragile at best.
>
> > I want to understand whether orphaned tilde objects are part of
> > the DSP graph, and steal cycles? or are they harmless?
>
> yes. no (not in your sense).
>
> if you are concerened about orphaned objects stealing CPU cycles, delete
> them from your patch. this way they are *guaranteed* to not take any CPU
> (nor memory), even with the most naive scheduler.
> also: Pd has [switch~] to turn off parts of a DSP-graph (even if it is
> not orphaned!).
>
> gfmadsr
> IOhannes
>
>
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Re: [PD] Understanding the mechanics of rebuilding Pd's DSP graph

[William Huston]

> what qualifies as a "complex orphaned network"?

and [osc~] with no wires is the most trivial example of an
orphaned tilde object. There is no need to add  it to the
DSP graph or compute audio for such.

An orphaned (tilde) network is created when I connect two orphaned
tilde objects together.

> how do you determine whether a dsp-object has I/O?

A tilde object is "active" (not orphaned) when its output is connected to
any object which stores computed audio in memory, or sends audio
external to PD,  like [dac~], [tabwrite~], or [writesf~].

(OK-- externals become tricky, as PD's DSP compiler needs to understand
wither the external object sends audio outside PD, such as across
a network, or stores audio in memory)

A [throw~] / [catch~] network is orphaned if the output of [catch~]
is connected to an orphaned tilde network.

These kinds of orphans (at least for PD vanilla objects)
should be easy to detect if it is true as Jonathan says,
that there is a single DSP graph for each running instance of PD,
since they can be determined by examining the netlist alone.

The reason I'm asking this is because since moving to a Raspberry Pi-based
setup,
I'm trying to optimize my code for performance, since there is definitely a
CPU budget on a Pi which is easily exceeded.

I want to understand whether orphaned tilde objects are part of
the DSP graph, and steal cycles? or are they harmless?



On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 1:18 PM, IOhannes m zmölnig <zmoel...@iem.at> wrote:

> On 11/23/2015 06:31 PM, William Huston wrote:
> >
> > *What about a complex "orphaned network" containing various tilde
> objects?*
> >
>
> what qualifies as a "complex orphaned network"?
> how do you determine whether a dsp-object has I/O?
>
>
> mfds
> IOhannes
>
>
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Re: [PD] Understanding the mechanics of rebuilding Pd's DSP graph

[William Huston]

This is an enormously helpful discussion.
Just reading it in-depth now.
I think this should be summarized for inclusion into an FAQ.

I have some circuit design experience (many years ago).
I worked with netlists for Spice and other circuit simulators.

My first big program in C (1989?) was a program which
traversed a Spice deck (a linked list) and among other things,
found "orphaned networks" which didn't go anywhere.
It's a network which ultimately has no input and no outputs.

There is no need to electrically simulate such orphans
(this was in the 1980s when computers were mainframes
and time was really expensive), and there is no need to
make these into silicon. So such circuits are "optimized out"
(deleted.)




*My question is, does PD compute audio for an orphaned [osc~] with no
leads?*

*What about a complex "orphaned network" containing various tilde objects?*

*Are these computed? Or optimized out during compilation?*

What I've heard here from Jonathan is,
"adding any tilde object recreates the DSP graph".

So just placing an [osc~] with no wires recalculates the graph?
The would seem like a waste.

Furthermore-- this can even be improved. If I take an [osc~] and connect
a wire to an object which is part of an active DSP graph (not orphaned),
then we clearly need to recompile.

However, if I connect the [osc~] to an "orphaned network" (no I/O),
then this does not need to recompile the graph.

I imagine there must be a PD agent which looks at the objects you've just
instantiated
and decides whether the DSP graph should be recompiled.

Is there any room for improvement here?

Thanks,
BH





On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 11:19 PM, Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list <
pd-list@lists.iem.at> wrote:

> Does [soundfiler] rebuild the dsp graph on read, or only if the -resize
> flag
> is used?  If its the latter then you can just set the right array size
> ahead of time.
> Then if you still get dropouts you'll know it's the blocking i/o doing it.
>
> -Jonathan
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, September 22, 2015 10:50 PM, Matt Barber 
> wrote:
>
>
> There's nothing wrong per se with resizing an array -- but there are good
> reasons not to do it while a patch is running after a [tab*] object has
> referred to it. I have myself only noticed audio dropouts when I'm resizing
> a table with soundfiler; I thought it must have been a disk-access
> bottleneck (soundfiler runs synchronously, yes?), but it would make sense
> if it in very large patches that a resize triggering a DSP recalc could do
> it. Though, then wouldn't adding any tilde object do the same?
>
> On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 4:00 PM, Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list <
> pd-list@lists.iem.at> wrote:
>
> In C, what's the overhead of having function_call(return array->x_size)
> instead
> of array->x_size inside a perform routine?
>
> If that's not significant, it seems like it'd be better to over-allocate
> the array at creation/resize time and report the requested size to the
> user.  That way reallocation (and dsp-rebuilding) is only necessary if
> there's a substantial size change, or if the array is used by an external
> that uses the old API.
>
> That's certainly more difficult to do than just rebuilding the graph on
> every resizing.  But to me it's preferable to telling new users, "Here's how
> to resize an array, which is a central feature for using objects like
> [tabplay~] and
> 'Put' menu arrays and [soundfiler], but in reality don't use it because
> [[explanation of Pd's implementation details go here]]."
>
> -Jonathan
>
>
> On Tuesday, September 22, 2015 12:05 PM, Roman Haefeli 
> wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, 2015-09-20 at 22:19 +0200, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:
> > On 09/17/2015 11:55 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote:
> >
> > > Is the time it takes to recalculate the graph only dependent on the
> > > number of tilde-objects running in the current instance of Pd? If so,
> is
> > > that a linear correlation? 10 times more tilde-objects means it takes
> 10
> > > times as long to recalculate the graph?
> >
> > [skipping those]
>
> Simple tests suggests that the relation is linear. But maybe this
> depends on the kind of graph? What I tested: I created 500 audio
> processing abstractions dynamically and then I measured the time it
> takes to send 'dsp 0, dsp 1' to pd. I did the same test again with 1000
> instances and time doubled.
>
> > > Why is resizing tables so much slower, when tilde-objects are
> > > referencing it? I noticed that even resizing very small tables can be a
> > > cause for audio drop-outs. I wonder whether 'live-resizing' should be
> > > avoided altogether.
> >
> > because the table-accessing objects will only check whether a table
> > exists and of what size it is) when the DSP graph is re-calculated.
> > this is a speed optimization, so those objects don't need to check the
> > table existance/size in each signal block.
> > the way how it is implemented is, that a table is marked as "being used
> > in DSP processing" by a 

Re: [PD] pd needs something like soundcloud

[William Huston]

I've noticed many of us are using Github. Is there a way we can add a tag
to make it easy to browse all PD code?

This search produces a lot of hits (but not so easy to browse)

https://github.com/search?utf8=✓=
"pure+data"+pd=Repositories=searchresults

Or are you suggesting a site just for PD patches?

Extensions too?



On Sunday, November 15, 2015,  wrote:
> +1 (for a codepaste like solution) and the "final" patch/zip should be
uploaded to:
> http://pdpatchrepo.info/patches
>
> (but that required more clicks).
>
> Cheers~
>
>
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Re: [PD] I07.phase.vocoder reports "adc~: no method for 'bang'"

[William Huston]

> please don't post screenshots of patches.

OK, but I find an image much easier to see the issue immediately.

Low level inspection is an important point if I was submitting *my own
patch*. However, we are talking about a common patch which is distributed
as part of a release.

Are there people on this list actually concerned about the difference
between 1kb vs 120kb?

It seems to me these are days when it is is difficult to find HDD smaller
than 1TB (KB>MB>GB>TB =9 orders of magnitude), and most people in developed
countries connect to the Internet with broadband cable/fiber/3G+.

> i don't know now how
> the help-patch of [adc~] relates to your I07.phase.vocoder problem.

Because I am responding to Miller's assertion that the inlet to [adc~] is
documented:

MP>> The inlet takes a "set" message to reassign its input channel (this is
mentioned in the help window).

> i did an "rgrep -w rance" over the entire Pd-0.47-git sources and i had
no hits.

That may be the case. Now can you look at what is in the *build* for the
latest PD vanilla for ARM and tell me what you see?

Like I stated, I suspect it is a build error.

BH

On Saturday, November 14, 2015, IOhannes m zmölnig <zmoel...@iem.at> wrote:
> On 11/14/2015 06:01 AM, William Huston wrote:
>> When I click on the help for [adc~] I get this file:
>>
>> *pd-0.46-7/doc/5.reference/*
>> *adc~_dac~-help.pd*
>> Here's what it says. (see screenshot below)
>
> please don't post screenshots of patches.
> post patches instead (they are *much smaller (e.g. your screnshot takes
> 119992 bytes, whereas the help-patch takes 1168 bytes); they can be
> *run* by anybody interested in your problem; they can be inspected on a
> *lower* level)
>
>> I'm sorry if I'm missing something.
>>
>
> it seems like i'm missing something as well, since i don't know now how
> the help-patch of [adc~] relates to your I07.phase.vocoder problem.
>
>> PS: typo: "numbers out of *rance*"
>
> when? what do you do to trigger that message?
> i did an "rgrep -w rance" over the entire Pd-0.47-git sources and i had
> no hits.
>
>
>
>> I suspect the build for 0.46-7 for the armv7 may be broken, not getting
the
>> latest stuff? 
>
> very unlikely.
>
>
>
> fgmdst
> IOhannes
>
>

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Re: [PD] I07.phase.vocoder reports "adc~: no method for 'bang'"

[William Huston]

Thanks Miller!

And IOhannes for the patch.
Will check it out.

On Saturday, November 14, 2015, Miller Puckette <m...@ucsd.edu> wrote:
> Sure enough - my earlier reply was based on the latest version - the
> new ADC method didn't make it into 0.46, but will appear in 0.47.  Sorry
> for the confusion.
>
> Miller
>
> On Sat, Nov 14, 2015 at 12:01:34AM -0500, William Huston wrote:
>> When I click on the help for [adc~] I get this file:
>>
>> *pd-0.46-7/doc/5.reference/*
>> *adc~_dac~-help.pd*
>> Here's what it says. (see screenshot below)
>> I'm sorry if I'm missing something.
>>
>>
>>
>> PS: typo: "numbers out of *rance*"
>>
>> I checked to see if I copied over something wrong from -extended, and
that
>> does not look to be the case. All different file sizes:
>>
>> Here is the latest vanilla from pd-0.46-7.armv7.tar.gz: (matching adc*)
>> -rw-r--r-- 1 bhuston pi *722 *Sep  9 19:08
>> pd-0.46-7/doc/5.reference/adc~_dac~-help.pd
>>
>> Here is from -extended: (matching adc*)
>> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root *5215 *Jan 19  2013
>> pd-extended/doc/5.reference/adc~_dac~-help.pd
>> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root *6760 *Jan 19  2013
>> pd-extended/doc/5.reference/adc~-help.pd
>>
>> I suspect the build for 0.46-7 for the armv7 may be broken, not getting
the
>> latest stuff? 
>>
>> The patch in question is basically the same from -extended, with one type
>> fixed:
>>
>> -rw-r--r-- 1 bhuston pi   *15570 *Jan 17  2015
>> pd-0.46-7/doc/3.audio.examples/I07.phase.vocoder.pd
>> -rw-r--r-- 1 rootroot *15571 *Jan 24  2013
>> pd-extended/doc/3.audio.examples/I07.phase.vocoder.pd
>>
>> bhuston@BillPi $ find pd-extended/ pd-0.46-7/ | grep -i I07 | xargs diff
>> 515c515
>> < same magnitudes and phase precession \, althought the phases themselves
>> ---
>> > same magnitudes and phase precession \, although the phases themselves
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 11:19 PM, Miller Puckette <m...@ucsd.edu> wrote:
>>
>> > The inlet takes a "set" message to reassign its input channel (this is
>> > mentioned in the help window).  That's the only message it takes -
anything
>> > else flags an error.
>> >
>> > cheers
>> > Miller
>> >
>> > On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 10:09:39PM -0500, William Huston wrote:
>> > > Hi all,
>> > >
>> > > Using 0.46-7 (latest?)
>> > >
>> > > In I07.phase.vocoder reports "adc~: no method for 'bang'"
>> > > on the console. See screenshot below.
>> > >
>> > > I do not see in doc/5.reference/adc~_dac~-help.pd
>> > > any mention of what the inlet to [adc~] is for.
>> > > I'm tempted to send a numeric value, 0?, 1? etc but it's guesswork.
>> > >
>> > > I had a look at pd-0.46-7/src/d_dac.c,
>> > > but frankly I don't understand where the inlets are processed.
>> > >
>> > > Any help appreciated!
>> > >
>> > > Thanks,
>> > > BH
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > --
>> > > May you, and all beings
>> > > be happy and free from suffering :)
>> > > -- ancient Buddhist Prayer (Metta)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > ___
>> > > Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
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>> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
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>> --
>> May you, and all beings
>> be happy and free from suffering :)
>> -- ancient Buddhist Prayer (Metta)
>
>
>
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Re: [PD] I07.phase.vocoder reports "adc~: no method for 'bang'"

[William Huston]

IOhannes--

Please check your grep invocation. There are many hits of "rance" in the
source, including all these words:
* occurance (which is actually a spelling mistake!), appearance, France,
entrance, tolerance. *

Here's something which works, and also filters out the bogus hits.

Note also the typo ("rance" should be "range") has been there a long time,
as it is also in Pd-0.43.4 ("extended")

$ find pd-extended/ pd-0.46-7/ -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep rance |
egrep -v "(occu|ppea|F|ent|tole)rance"

*pd-extended/extra/vanilla/adc~_dac~-help.pd*:more channels \, and channel
numbers out of rance will be dropped (dac~)
*pd-0.46-7/doc/5.reference/adc~_dac~-help.pd*:more channels \, and channel
numbers out of rance will be dropped (dac~)

thanks,
BH

On Sat, Nov 14, 2015 at 12:56 PM, IOhannes m zmölnig <zmoel...@iem.at>
wrote:

> On 11/14/2015 06:01 AM, William Huston wrote:
> > When I click on the help for [adc~] I get this file:
> >
> > *pd-0.46-7/doc/5.reference/*
> > *adc~_dac~-help.pd*
> > Here's what it says. (see screenshot below)
>
> please don't post screenshots of patches.
> post patches instead (they are *much smaller (e.g. your screnshot takes
> 119992 bytes, whereas the help-patch takes 1168 bytes); they can be
> *run* by anybody interested in your problem; they can be inspected on a
> *lower* level)
>
> > I'm sorry if I'm missing something.
> >
>
> it seems like i'm missing something as well, since i don't know now how
> the help-patch of [adc~] relates to your I07.phase.vocoder problem.
>
> > PS: typo: "numbers out of *rance*"
>
> when? what do you do to trigger that message?
> i did an "rgrep -w rance" over the entire Pd-0.47-git sources and i had
> no hits.
>
>
>
> > I suspect the build for 0.46-7 for the armv7 may be broken, not getting
> the
> > latest stuff? 
>
> very unlikely.
>
>
>
> fgmdst
> IOhannes
>
>
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[PD] Fun 5-voice multi-sample player (With Mellotron samples!)

[William Huston]

If anyone is looking for a multi-sample player in PD
I found this today and is very fun to play with:

https://guitarextended.wordpress.com/2014/11/11/yellotron-a-mellotron-with-pure-data/

Installation notes:

1) I had lots of problems grabbing the Mellotron library (server would drop
the connection). Be sure to use something like wget or FileZilla which
knows how to pick up a failed transfer from where it left off.

2)  There is a minor bug, a typo in one directory name, which this command
should fix after installing:

$ mv CombindeChoir CombinedChoir

3) This seems like a general purpose multi-sample player. With this patch
and with something like the OLPC Free Sample Library, you should be able to
have grand pianos, and an entire orchestra at your fingertips!

Now I know many PD purists eschew sample-players and prefer to "roll your
own". One thing I hope to do some day is to analyze some of  these
multi-samples and try to model & parameterize them for re-synthesis.

But for now, I'm having fun pretending to be Edgar Froese...

enjoy--
BH

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Re: [PD] chord libraries?

[William Huston]

Thanks Matt!

Yeah, I'm pretty good with the mathematics of permutations and
combinations...

My goal is to be able to generate (and hopefully identify, given a list of
MIDI notes) any given chord/inversion. Which somewhat restricts these to
"musical" chords.

I think a cluster, a tetrachord of all minor 2nds is not terribly useful
and probably doesn't have a name. Yes it is good to characterize it for
completeness :)

My main purpose now is to build an instrument which allows me to traverse a
"chord map", which generally follows how most songs are structured. With an
easy way to change the tonic, make inversions, and maybe throw in some
substitutions.

I have a 4x4 drum pad controller, which I want to use to play a drone
chord, and move through a map, while I play a lead with my right hand.

I really like what this guy has done (but there are many maps like this):

http://mugglinworks.com/chordmaps/genmap.htm


On Tuesday, November 3, 2015, Matt Barber <brbrof...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I just remembered this Julian Hook article on Music Theory Online, if you
want to find out more about how to find the number of chords of a given
size:
> http://www.mtosmt.org/issues/mto.07.13.4/mto.07.13.4.hook.html
>
> On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 3:00 PM, William Huston <williamahus...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>
>> Matt suggested I forward this side discussion (and attachment) to the
list.
>>
>> N.B., Matt is referring by number to the list of 55 intervals I
identified in my original, quoted below. However, it was an HTML list, and
the numbering got munched during quoting. Sorry if that makes this slightly
unclear.  --BH
>>
>>
>> -- Forwarded message --
>> From: Matt Barber <brbrof...@gmail.com>
>> Date: Monday, November 2, 2015
>> Subject: chord libraries?
>> To: William Huston <williamahus...@gmail.com>
>>
>>
>> We also eliminate transpositions, so in this case 55 is the same chord
as 1, 18 and 12 are the same, and so forth. If we eliminate all
transpositions and inversions, we end up with 12 trichords:
>> 012*
>> 013
>> 014
>> 015
>> 016
>> 024*
>> 025
>> 026
>> 027*
>> 036*
>> 037
>> 048*
>> I marked the 5 that are self-inversional with a star. They're all
"musical," but again it depends on the type of music you're looking at. All
19 trichords (eliminating transpositions and respacing) have been in use as
simultaneities since the late 1800s, but some more than others. 012 didn't
get a huge foothold until the first decade or two of the 20th century.
>> See the attached; it does eliminate inversions, but it wouldn't be that
hard to make that a user preference. [list-setclass] outputs the normal
form as I described above, and the interval-vector one outputs a catalog of
the chromatic intervals contained in the chord (eliminating unisons,
octaves and inversions). In mod 12 there are 6 chromatic intervals,
counting minor seconds and major sevenths as the same -- the output just
gives you the number of each interval in the chord from 1 to 6 (or whatever
if you choose a different modulus).
>> Matt
>> PS -- if you like, you can bump this response up to the list.
>> On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 12:28 PM, William Huston <williamahus...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>> >
>> > Thanks Matt. Yes interested.
>> >
>> > FTR, if we do not eliminate inversions, I count 55 3-tone chords in
12TET:
>> >
>> > 1110
>> > 1101
>> > 11001000
>> > 11000100
>> > 1110
>> > 1101
>> > 11001000
>> > 11000100
>> > 1110
>> > 1101
>> > 1011
>> > 10101000
>> > 10100100
>> > 10100010
>> > 1011
>> > 10101000
>> > 10100100
>> > 10100010
>> > 1011
>> > 10011000
>> > 10010100
>> > 10010010
>> > 10010001
>> > 10011000
>> > 10010100
>> > 10010010
>> > 10010001
>> > 10001100
>> > 10001010
>> > 10001001
>> > 100010001000
>> > 10001100
>> > 10001010
>> > 10001001
>> > 1110
>> > 1101
>> > 11001000
>> > 11000100
>> > 1110
>> > 1101
>> > 1011
>> > 10101000
>> > 10100100
>> > 10100010
>> > 1011
>> > 10011000
>> > 10010100
>> > 10010010
>> > 10010001
>> > 10001100
>> > 10001010

Re: [PD] chord libraries?

[William Huston]

Wow, looks like just what I'm looking for.
Many thanks!


On Sun, Nov 1, 2015 at 11:46 PM, Joe Newlin <jtnew...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Check out chorddict-help.pd from rjlib:
> https://github.com/rjdj/rjlib/tree/master/rj
>
> JN
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 1, 2015 at 7:31 PM, William Huston <williamahus...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Before I reinvent the wheel, I'm wondering what people have done
> characterizing chord libraries?
> >
> > I'm looking for the root position constructions in terms of intervals
> for 3 and 4 note chords.
> >
> > I realize there are only a dozen or so which are mostly used, but just
> wondering what people have come up with.
> >
> > What would be really nice is to convert between things like:
> >
> > 1,3,5 -> "Major" -> 1,5,8
> > 1,3b,5 -> "Minor" -> 1,4,8
> > 1,4,5 -> "Sus4" -> 1,6,8
> >
> > I.e., Notes in scale,
> > Common name, Interval map
> >
> > ... for all common 3 and 4 note chords. Like, given any one of those,
> can derive the others.
> >
> > Also would be nice given an interval map, be able to identify it as an
> inversion of a more basic chord, like:
> >
> > 1,5,8 -> Maj/root
> > 1,4,9 -> Maj/1st inv
> > 1,6,10 -> Maj/2nd inv
> >
> > Any pointers/ideas along these lines appreciated!
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > --
> > --
> > May you, and all beings
> > be happy and free from suffering :)
> > -- ancient Buddhist Prayer (Metta)
> >
> >
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> ᐧ
>



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Re: [PD] PD on Pi: Another Boring Vanilla vs. Extended question

[William Huston]

Yes, I tested and it works. Thanks!

On Thursday, October 29, 2015, Dan Wilcox <danomat...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Symlink or just add the pd-extended extra folder to your pd-vanilla path.
This would give you possibly older versions of bonk~, etc too but is the
quickest way to test.
> I believe the path is: /usr/local/lib/pd/extra or something like that ...
>
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika
> danomatika.com
> robotcowboy.com
>
> On Oct 29, 2015, at 5:00 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> From: Roman Haefeli <reduz...@gmail.com>
> Date: October 29, 2015 at 3:07:44 AM MDT
> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
> Subject: Re: [PD] PD on Pi: Another Boring Vanilla vs. Extended question
>
>
> On Wed, 2015-10-28 at 23:51 -0400, William Huston wrote:
>
>
> Is it possible to move over some of the objects I like without
> recompiling?
>
> Wouldn't it be easy enough to just test? I believe it works with most of
> the externals. I used to symlink the libraries I needed.
>

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Re: [PD] PD on Pi: Another Boring Vanilla vs. Extended question

[William Huston]

Thanks!
Found it here:

https://github.com/pure-data/deken

On Thursday, October 29, 2015, Alexandre Torres Porres <por...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> deken +1
> 2015-10-29 7:07 GMT-02:00 Roman Haefeli <reduz...@gmail.com>:
>>
>> On Wed, 2015-10-28 at 23:51 -0400, William Huston wrote:
>>
>>
>> > Is it possible to move over some of the objects I like without
>> > recompiling?
>>
>> Wouldn't it be easy enough to just test? I believe it works with most of
>> the externals. I used to symlink the libraries I needed.
>>
>> > Is anything about the external libraries which are statically linked?
>> >
>> > Or is everything about modules dynamic, and loaded when needed?
>>
>> I guess all the .pd_linux files are dynamically linked libs.
>>
>> An alternative would be installing the missing libraries through deken
>> [1]. The libraries from have Pd-extended 0.43.3 have been packaged for
>> deken, but I'm not sure if that is the case for the armv6 architecture
>> as well.
>>
>> [1] https://github.com/pure-data/deken
>>
>> Roman
>>
>>
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Re: [PD] more delay weirdness

[William Huston]

First I think it is of critically importance for people to remain
extra-polite on big, international listservs.

I would suggest to make conscious effort to tone down any hostility,
frustration, or anger you are feeling before posting. Take a deep breath.

Recall, we are all doing this to (mostly) to have fun :)

Next, I think this discussion could have great pedagogical value to
intermediate PD patchers like me to explain what this is all about.

I'm sorry but I do not understand "overlapping sub-patches" or the issue
with [vd~].

I would wager there are others here in my boat.

I very much would appreciate some more discussion here. Diagrams would help
me very much.

Thanks!

PS: I am personally loving [vd~] at the moment. I just made an abstraction
called "AutoPhase3".
That and my "AutoPan3" makes a really awesome Leslie (rotating speaker)
simulation.

Basically, it takes a mono source and writes it into a circular buffer.

Then, I have 3x [vd~]'s reading, with an LFO on the delay time. I can
change the speed and depth of the LFO, as well as the phase-distance
between them.


It's so freaking awesome! I then take these 3 signals and send them to
discrete AutoPan modules. Again, speed and depth of LFO variable.

OMG, the fatness! Just take a simple saw oscillator, or even a sinusoid--
anything! And you can get lush flanger, phasor, and chorus effects.

I guess it's like FM so it can really warp the spectrum. Create artifacts
not found in the original.

You can get it on GitHub.
TinyURL.com / BHPDToolkit

FYI: There are several demo-patches with bugs in abstraction names.
Everything is there in the repository, but some abstraction names changed.
I will fix when I can.




On Thursday, September 24, 2015, Christof Ressi 
wrote:
>> cause I'm expecting the object to behave as it should
>
> more precisely, you're expecting the object to behave as YOU THINK it
should ;-). But you're right that this discussion can go on forever. I just
want to point out a last time that there's a difference between a bug and
improper documentation. For example there's a technical reason why for
computing audio in blocks, the reading onset for [vd~] would be less than
the buffer size of [delwrite~] (especially when deliberately increasing the
block size). This is totally logical and problems only arise because of
vague terms like 'maximum delay time'. So it's not that the behaviour of
[vd~] is wrong, but the helpfile - and that's an important difference!
>
> Regarding the behaviour of overlapping subpatches you just have to accept
how Pd works. Changing its behaviour will break hundreds of patches.
> To repeat myself, I personally think most of what you declare as a 'bug'
is just a matter of missing or misleading documentation.
>
> Cheers
>
> PS: I'm not claiming the last word on this subject
>
>
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 24. September 2015 um 18:54 Uhr
> Von: "Alexandre Torres Porres" 
> An: "Christof Ressi" 
> Cc: Pd-List 
> Betreff: Re: Re: [PD] more delay weirdness
> 2015-09-24 9:53 GMT-03:00 Christof Ressi :
>>
>> If my last post felt like a repression, I deeply regret that!
>
>
> no worries ;) just had to bring it up.
>
>>
>> but you were calling other things a bug, that were no bugs in a
technical sense (how ms are calculated in overlapping subpatches, how the
maximum index for [vd~] is actual less than the buffer size, etc.).
>> (...)
>> I'm personally rather careful with calling something a bug because
chances are high that there's simply a technical reason I didn't consider
or couldn't understand.
>
>
> Yeah, I see the way you think but I think quite differently and I still
consider these things a "bug". I know there might be technical issues that
explain why things happen. But when nothing tells me that when using an
overlapped block that I have to adjust time and frequency for objects, I
see that as a bug, cause I'm expecting the object to behave as it should,
and it just doesn't, and then my patches don't work and it sucks. I have to
ask the list why the heck something is not happening and why do I need
workarounds... someone had to look deeply in the code and sort it out...
>
> Well, and instead of building workarounds in the patch, I know there's a
way to "fix" this in the object (just divide by the overlap number
automatically in the code, seems easier than explaining it somewhere in the
help file of a block~) - it wouldn't be impossible to fix it.
>
> Regarding the maximum delay time. Well, help file says it can go up to
the total length and it doesn't... so... bug detected. I'm sure there's a
reason why it's happening, but I don't think its impossible to fix it and
make it happen as well.
>
> but anyway, I get your view, but I'll just disagree :) not sure if we
should discuss and try to change each other's minds.
>
> cheers
>
>

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be happy and free from suffering :)
-- ancient 

[PD] Can an abstraction tell of something is connected to an [inlet~]

[William Huston]

*I have this common situation:*
I have an abstraction which has a parameter control visible to the parent
via graph-on-parent. Let's call the parameter $0-FOO

I want the user to be able to adjust the control via the GUI.
I also want to be able to drive $0-FOO via an inlet or a message.
And when that happens, I want the knob in the GUI to update
and show the current value.

When I set up

[inlet] - [hsl]

Now the [hsl] cannot be moved via the GUI.
I am trying to find a way to solve this.

One possible solution is gate the inlet with a [spigot]
which would work if I could detect if something was
connected to the inlet or not.


*Q1: Is there a way for me to tell, inside an abstraction,*

*whether something is connected to a particular*
*[inlet] or [inlet~]?*

*Q2: *Or else *how can I read the output of a control *(e.g., hsl)
*and drive it also*? (this sounds like an application
for a syncho/servo)

Thanks!
BH





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Re: [PD] Can an abstraction tell of something is connected to an [inlet~]

[William Huston]

I guess I left out an important detail.

The control inlet is for PWM (duty cycle).
I want high resolution so I use an [inlet~] and drive it at signal rate.

So I actually must drive the [hsl] input with a [snapshot~].

If I could tell if something was connected at the [inlet~],
then I could gate the [snapshot~].

Or maybe I only update the hsl if I see that the snapshot
value is changing?

OK... I have some ideas now, thanks :)

Would still like a way to tell if an inlet has an external connection.



On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 2:13 PM, IOhannes m zmölnig zmoel...@iem.at wrote:

 On 08/17/2015 08:05 PM, William Huston wrote:
  When I set up
 
  [inlet] - [hsl]
 
  Now the [hsl] cannot be moved via the GUI.

 why?

 fgmards
 IOhannes


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Re: [PD] tabread4~ interpolation at slooow playback?

[William Huston]

  why? the interpolation noise is what makes it sound so unique, so crunchy

I am just noticing Jamal's note in this long thread.

*I actually agree with this!!*

What seems like a bug or annoyance at first
can actually turn out to have creative effect.

I have some spoken-word audio which is about 30-40 min. in to
a long WAV file. I am using [phasor~] - [tabread4~] and am getting
the well-known noise issue due to the single-precision floats.

But when used appropriately, this kind of distortion can be quite
pleasurable!

Since this noise character changes as we move deeper into
a long buffer, I am thinking about ways I can easily recreate the particular
kind of distortion I get when I am reading between samples N to M of the
buffer... (I have yet to characterize precisely what values N, M are).

I want to be able to have this kind of crunch available
as an effect, even if the single precision issue is ever fixed!!

BH




On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 7:06 AM, jamal crawford three...@ml1.net wrote:

 hey

 Is there any way how to reduce the interpolation noise? Could I use a
 low-pass filter whose cutoff frequency I could adapt wrt. playback
 speed?

 why? the interpolation noise is what makes it sound so unique, so
 crunchy, without LP and especially at very sloow playback. with a
 good analog tube eq and pair of high end analog compressors, it sounds
 like garlic smear in my ears or maybe even chilli mayo :)

 cheers

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[PD] Random thoughts after 1 year with PD

[William Huston]

This is coming up on my first year
as a PD hacker.

Having so much fun.
I think I'm obsessed.

One thing I am really digging about PD is that after 1 year,
I feel I have a basic grasp of about 20% of the PD objects
(i think I am including extended here)
and maybe 60% of the paradigm.



* Even with this limited subset, I can build pretty much anything I want! *
I have a collection of abstractions for LFOs, Multi-waveform oscillators,
sample-loopers, basic effects, reverb and delay, sequencers, ADSR,
basic LP, BP, and HP filters, etc. Ring Modulation, I have little modules
that deal MIDI, etc.


*Here's my observation*
*which I wanted to share:*


*Each time when I want to make music, I find myself building a custom
instrument.*

So the music I make with it seems fresh and different each time.
I make music that surprises me!

Because--
I am not sitting down with any per-conceived ideas
of how to interact with the instrument.
...because it's something brand new every time!
I don't know what it does exactly,

So every session with it becomes an exploration
of the instrument, and an exploration with sounds.

Sometimes something which initially seems
like a bug with the interface,
turns out to be a creative opportunity.

(like the way a slider with a very large range
will jump around to certain discrete points.)

And you think I wish that would move more fluidly.
I wish this controller had more resolution (etc).

But because of this bug,
I've discovered micro-tonal scales.

I first noticed this with Martin Neimoller's Chaos Monster,
these strange but wonderful microtonal scales.

It's really the secret to recreating the music of
India, Iran, the middle east, and also far east.

So anyway, thanks Miller
for this incredible thing.

I really think PD is the *Perfect Instrument*
from *Orson Scott Card's *short story
*Unaccompanied Sonata*.

I have dreamed about having this capability
to mangle sound like this,
for many years, since I was a young boy,

I never thought I would see anything
like this in my lifetime.

I think Pure Data has, in a way,
set my soul free...

And also thanks
to this amazingly supportive community!

Good on ye!
BH



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Re: [PD] GUI lock ups

[William Huston]

No.
Thanks :)

On Wednesday, May 20, 2015, Ivica Ico Bukvic i...@vt.edu wrote:
 Do you have any netsend/netreceive objects in your patch?

 On 5/19/2015 9:29 PM, William Huston wrote:

 Yes, just happened:

 (Tcl) INVALID COMMAND NAME: invalid command name .x3cc9380.c
 while executing
 $tkcanvas itemconfig $tag -text $text
 (procedure pdtk_text_set line 2)
 invoked from within
 pdtk_text_set .x3cc9380.c .x3cc9380.t43bfcc0 {4.326}
 (uplevel body line 1)
 invoked from within
 uplevel #0 $cmds_from_pd

 0.43.4-extended, Windows 7

 Thanks



 On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 3:16 PM, William Huston williamahus...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Hmm. Not sure. Will check console next time it happens.
 Thanks.


 On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 5:52 AM, ro...@dds.nl wrote:

 do you also get TCL errors ?

 rolf


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Re: [PD] GUI lock ups

[William Huston]

Yes, just happened:

(Tcl) INVALID COMMAND NAME: invalid command name .x3cc9380.c
while executing
$tkcanvas itemconfig $tag -text $text
(procedure pdtk_text_set line 2)
invoked from within
pdtk_text_set .x3cc9380.c .x3cc9380.t43bfcc0 {4.326}
(uplevel body line 1)
invoked from within
uplevel #0 $cmds_from_pd

0.43.4-extended, Windows 7

Thanks



On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 3:16 PM, William Huston williamahus...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Hmm. Not sure. Will check console next time it happens.
 Thanks.


 On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 5:52 AM, ro...@dds.nl wrote:


 do you also get TCL errors ?

 rolf


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Re: [PD] GUI lock ups

[William Huston]

Thanks Patrick. Can you explain how this will help?

I'm using Windows 7, so there is normally no parent shell.

So -stderr flag (if I am understanding correctly) would take the errors
which I can presently see in the GUI console, and send them to the bit
bucket (invisible to me).

I can start pd -stderr from a shell, no problem, if there is some benefit.

Do you think there will be additional diagnostics generated above what I
have already provided?

Thanks,

On Tuesday, May 19, 2015, Pagano, Patrick p...@digitalworlds.ufl.edu wrote:
 add the -stderr flag to your boot


 Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A
 Audio and Projection Design Faculty
 Digital Worlds Institute
 University of Florida, USA
 (352)294-2020
 
 From: Pd-list pd-list-boun...@mail.iem.at on behalf of William Huston 
williamahus...@gmail.com
 Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 9:29 PM
 To: rolfmeesters
 Cc: pd-l...@iem.at
 Subject: Re: [PD] GUI lock ups

 Yes, just happened:

 (Tcl) INVALID COMMAND NAME: invalid command name .x3cc9380.c
 while executing
 $tkcanvas itemconfig $tag -text $text
 (procedure pdtk_text_set line 2)
 invoked from within
 pdtk_text_set .x3cc9380.c .x3cc9380.t43bfcc0 {4.326}
 (uplevel body line 1)
 invoked from within
 uplevel #0 $cmds_from_pd

 0.43.4-extended, Windows 7

 Thanks



 On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 3:16 PM, William Huston williamahus...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Hmm. Not sure. Will check console next time it happens.
 Thanks.


 On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 5:52 AM, ro...@dds.nl wrote:

 do you also get TCL errors ?

 rolf


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Re: [PD] GUI lock ups

[William Huston]

My understanding is the error either goes to the GUI
or to the shell.

I can see the error in the GUI
which a pasted into a prior email.

Thus, I see no benefit sending the same error
to stderr.



On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 10:21 PM, Pagano, Patrick p...@digitalworlds.ufl.edu
 wrote:

  it sends the error to the shell instead of locking up the GUI


   *Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A*
 Audio and Projection Design Faculty
 Digital Worlds Institute
 University of Florida, USA
 (352)294-2020
   --
 *From:* William Huston williamahus...@gmail.com
 *Sent:* Tuesday, May 19, 2015 10:20 PM
 *To:* Pagano, Patrick
 *Cc:* rolfmeesters; pd-l...@iem.at

 *Subject:* Re: [PD] GUI lock ups

  Thanks Patrick. Can you explain how this will help?

 I'm using Windows 7, so there is normally no parent shell.

 So -stderr flag (if I am understanding correctly) would take the errors
 which I can presently see in the GUI console, and send them to the bit
 bucket (invisible to me).

 I can start pd -stderr from a shell, no problem, if there is some benefit.

 Do you think there will be additional diagnostics generated above what I
 have already provided?

 Thanks,

 On Tuesday, May 19, 2015, Pagano, Patrick p...@digitalworlds.ufl.edu
 wrote:
  add the -stderr flag to your boot
 
 
  Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A
  Audio and Projection Design Faculty
  Digital Worlds Institute
  University of Florida, USA
  (352)294-2020
  
  From: Pd-list pd-list-boun...@mail.iem.at on behalf of William Huston
 williamahus...@gmail.com
  Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 9:29 PM
  To: rolfmeesters
  Cc: pd-l...@iem.at
  Subject: Re: [PD] GUI lock ups
 
  Yes, just happened:
 
  (Tcl) INVALID COMMAND NAME: invalid command name .x3cc9380.c
  while executing
  $tkcanvas itemconfig $tag -text $text
  (procedure pdtk_text_set line 2)
  invoked from within
  pdtk_text_set .x3cc9380.c .x3cc9380.t43bfcc0 {4.326}
  (uplevel body line 1)
  invoked from within
  uplevel #0 $cmds_from_pd
 
  0.43.4-extended, Windows 7
 
  Thanks
 
 
 
  On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 3:16 PM, William Huston 
 williamahus...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Hmm. Not sure. Will check console next time it happens.
  Thanks.
 
 
  On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 5:52 AM, ro...@dds.nl wrote:
 
  do you also get TCL errors ?
 
  rolf
 
 
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  -- ancient Buddhist Prayer (Metta)
 
  Don't forget to sign the
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  --
  --
  May you, and all beings
  be happy and free from suffering :)
  -- ancient Buddhist Prayer (Metta)
 
  Don't forget to sign the
  Pledge to Resist
  the Constitution Pipeline:
 
  The Pledge: TinyURL.com/Pledge2ResistCP
  More info: TinyURL.com/Pledge2ResistCP1

 --
 --
 May you, and all beings
 be happy and free from suffering :)
 -- ancient Buddhist Prayer (Metta)

 Don't forget to sign the

 *Pledge to Resist *

 *the Constitution Pipeline: *

- *The Pledge: TinyURL.com/Pledge2ResistCP
http://TinyURL.com/Pledge2ResistCP*
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http://TinyURL.com/Pledge2ResistCP1*





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--
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-- ancient Buddhist Prayer (Metta)

Don't forget to sign the

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