Test post to list - ping!!

2006-10-10 Thread Patrick Genovese
-- 
Regards

Patrick Genovese

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Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide

2006-10-10 Thread Inet Shopper
 You can probably afford the 40 limited. It's very cheap (About 2/3rds 
 the cost of a new FA 35/2 here in Canada)

If you mean the 43/1.9, it's currently US$370 after rebate at BH online, while
the FA 35/2 is US$300 (but out of stock). Does your Canadian store have a
website? I'd like to take a look.

 Sigma 20/1.8. Massive, soft wide open, and expensive.

OK I stand corrected. This IS a fast ultrawide lens. However, size and price
rule it out for me.

 Yes, Auto flash works just fine, however the Pentax module is for TTL 
 use (Your Canon doesn't do TTL at all, just Auto Aperture flash). The 
 flash would need to have an Auto Thyristor mode with a non-dedicated 
 shoe. It also needs to be low voltage trigger (sub-12v).

 -Adam

So I can just buy a standard (non-dedicated) module for the flash to use it
with a K100D? I believe the flash has a thyristor, as it recharges more quickly
when manually set to fire at less than full power. Voltage-wise, Kevin Bjorke's
strobe voltage page indicates the Sunpak 30DX puts out 4.6-10.4V, so no
problem.

Thanks for the comprehensive replies, by the way. Much appreciated!
Benjamin

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AF500FTZ flash

2006-10-10 Thread Patrick Genovese
Any ideas on how an AF500FTZ is expected to work with the K10D ?

AFAIK the 500FTZ does not have a photocell so it can't function in auto mode :-(

The only other option is manual which is quite a pain to use coz when
the 500ftz goes into standby it resets to default settings upon re
awakening.

Regards

Patrick Genovese

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Re: OT: joys and woes of new computer - couple of questions

2006-10-10 Thread mike wilson

 
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2006/10/09 Mon PM 10:25:25 GMT
 To: pdml@pdml.net
 Subject: Re: OT: joys and woes of new computer - couple of questions
 
 I had the other machine 6 years and never had to reinstall it. 
 
 I ignore the updates 
 
 I'm using the new machine to do email now through mail2web and my old
 address but
 I'd rather be able to set up my old netscape 4.6 when I get the new
 connection.

Now that you have the better machine and connection, you might bebetter off 
installing 7.2, which is the last of the proper Netscapes.  Fully compliant 
and has extras like popup blockers and tabbed pages, which I am sure you will 
love.  A few clicks to make it look like 4.6 8-)))

 
 I feel like I'm walking in mud though, even with the speedy connect.
 so much about this platform I jsut don't get
 
 ann
 
 
 Original Message:
 -
 From: graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 15:57:12 -0400
 To: pdml@pdml.net
 Subject: Re: OT: joys and woes of new computer - couple of questions
 
 
 Fun huh? One of the problems with customizing your settings its that 
 every time you have to reinstall the OS, it takes two weeks to get 
 everything back the way you like it. Luckily XP does not seem to have to 
 be reinstalled every couple of months. However watch out for those 
 automatic updates they tend to change the look and feel every now and 
 then with no obvious way of getting things back to the way you want 
 them. Maybe there is something to be said for running everything in its 
 default state, if I had to maintain a company full of PC's I would 
 insist upon it.
 
 
 -- 
 graywolf
 http://www.graywolfphoto.com
 http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf
 Idiot Proof == Expert Proof
 ---
 
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   did a bad thing --
  I calibrated my monitor using the custom settings and saved it as Adobe
  1998 :(
  Now I'm getting confused --
  
  For the stock stuff and stuff I want to print, I want the 1998 RGB adobe
  settings
  which I have in my camera.
  
  Im comfused about what is regulating the screen as opposed to what is
  regulating what i
  
  get when I print.  
  
  I stumbled around getting the screen to look right to me, comparing it to
  the screen
  on my old computer that is sitting next to this one. 
  
  another thing - if anyone is using  the Microsoft Works word processor (it
  came installed
  and Word would have cost me) I can't find where to set the default font
 and
  size, nor can
  I get the stuff I'm typing to fill up the entire screen, as in WORD.  
  
  also, if anyone has a corner of a server I could use to store the images I
  put up
  on ebay - at elast for a while - I'd appreciate it.  Using the ebay
 picture
  thing the
  pics are much smaller than mine but I'd like not to have to use rcn
 anymore
  for that
  stuff.
  
  right now I'm hooked up on earthlink just as a connector - will be on RR
 on
  Friday.
  
  I do like the speed of the cable connection and it was certainly 10 times
  as fast getting stuff on ebay.
  
  I've hardly read anything on this list or my other ones during this time
 of
  turmoil
  but I havent' unsubbed -
  I'll be back eventually :)
  
  ann
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  mail2web - Check your email from the web at
  http://mail2web.com/ .
  
  
  
 
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 mail2web - Check your email from the web at
 http://mail2web.com/ .
 
 
 
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Re: AF500FTZ flash

2006-10-10 Thread Sylwester Pietrzyk
On 10.10.2006, at 09:20 , Patrick Genovese wrote:

 Any ideas on how an AF500FTZ is expected to work with the K10D ?
Only in manual mode as K10D doesn't support plain TTL. It's time to  
upgrade flash to P-TTL capable one...

Cheers,
Sylwek



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Re: AF500FTZ flash

2006-10-10 Thread Patrick Genovese
I had a feeling that that would be the case  and yet the brochure
shows a 500ftz connected to the K10D via a remote cord.

OTOH the manual says nothing about TTL.  :-(

On 10/10/06, Sylwester Pietrzyk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 10.10.2006, at 09:20 , Patrick Genovese wrote:

  Any ideas on how an AF500FTZ is expected to work with the K10D ?
 Only in manual mode as K10D doesn't support plain TTL. It's time to
 upgrade flash to P-TTL capable one...

 Cheers,
 Sylwek



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Patrick Genovese

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RE: The JCO survey

2006-10-10 Thread mike wilson

 
 From: David Savage [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 If you want to go to 
 digital then you're going to have to make a compromise at some stage.

Mark!

(There's nothing like out-of-context to make a point)
8-


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Re: OT: joys and woes of new computer - couple of questions

2006-10-10 Thread mike wilson

 
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2006/10/10 Tue AM 03:26:36 GMT
 To: pdml@pdml.net
 Subject: Re: OT: joys and woes of new computer - couple of questions
 
 I have a 3 month free pc'illin
 no bugs so far
 I'll go to avast, I think, as some here have recommended.
 
 I really find it annoying that one has to do it at all.
 
 I'm trying to balance stuff I gotta do in real life with 
 getting this thing up to speed.  stressful

Once you have a computer, that _is_ real life.  Ask the digitisti. 8-)


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Re: The JCO survey

2006-10-10 Thread mike wilson

 
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2006/10/10 Tue AM 05:36:17 GMT
 To: pdml@pdml.net
 Subject: Re: The JCO survey
 
 In a message dated 10/9/2006 8:07:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 Digital has nothing to do with this issue.
 There is no reason why thay cant make and sell
 A digital SLR that supports the lenses in question.
 Compromise is NOT necessary to go digital, that's
 The whole point of my argument. I want BOTH.
 jco
 ===
 If wishes were horses... What you want and what Pentax will do are not 
 necessarily the same thing.
 
 wish = dead horse = beat
 

Not strictly true.  The green button cludge was not even a glimmer in a 
designer's eye when the D was being released.  New lenses or SOOL.  But the 
voice of the mighty consumer in the sky was raised and Lo! and Behold! - your 
old lenses can now work on your new camera.  After a fashion.  The horse is far 
from dead.  It is merely resting.


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Re: K100D- anybody bought one?

2006-10-10 Thread Kostas Kavoussanakis
On Mon, 9 Oct 2006, Adam Maas wrote:

 The K10D offers a larger buffer (9 shots instead of 3), weather sealing,
 improved AF, dual control wheels (Making work with A and later lenses
 less hassle), HyperProgram, more effective SR and a battery grip over
 the K100D. MSRP is $899 for the body, street should be in the ballpark.

And a pentaprism viewfinder! I know people like the K100D VF, but 
surely... Also, support for the forthcoming SSM lenses.

Kostas

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Re: The JCO survey

2006-10-10 Thread Kostas Kavoussanakis
On Mon, 9 Oct 2006, Cory Papenfuss wrote:

   To me it seems like the benefit of new lensed (through quality,
 weight reduction, autofocus, focal length, etc) should stand for
 themselves.  I thought that the benefits of a new product over an old were
 supposed to do that... not be artificially depricated and lose
 functionality.

You hit it on the head, Cory, as far as I am concerned.

However, why not do both? They can, you know. They have. We should all 
move on. I am with Christian on this, the simulator is gone.

Kostas

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Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide

2006-10-10 Thread Inet Shopper
 You can probably afford the 40 limited. It's very cheap (About 2/3rds 
 the cost of a new FA 35/2 here in Canada)

 The Sigma's not worth the money. The Tamron is, but the SMC-DA 16-45 f4 
 goes for similar (or less) cost and is a better option IMHO. The 18-55 
 is actually decent (unlike the mediocre kit lenses from Canon and Nikon).

 -Adam

Sorry, I just realized you meant the 40/2.8 Limited. It's tiny and not very
expensive, but if I got it I'd probably still want something faster for night
use. So I might as well omit it and save the money.

Thanks for pointing out the 16-45/4. I'd wrongly assumed that it would be very
expensive, yet it's priced like the Tamron 17-35/2.8-4. It looks like the cheap
route would be the kit lens and a used manual focus 28/2 or 35/2, and the more
expensive route would be the 16-45/4 with the FA 35/2.

I'm aware of the Vivitar/Kiron 28/2 lenses. In fact my 28/2 in FD mount is a
Kiron, and I like it very much. But Kirons in Pentax KA mount aren't cheap or
common either...

Benjamin

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Re: 35mm equivalent focal length on P6x7

2006-10-10 Thread Paul Stenquist
Better bets for wide 6x7 lenses are the 55/4 and the 45/4. Look for the 
latest version of the 55/4 if you go that way. It has the typography on 
the tapered end of the focusing ring. These lenses offer a field of 
view similar to a 28 and 23 respectively. Excellent glass. The 75/4.5 
is not highly regarded. There is a newer 75/2.8 that is superb, but 
it's still pricey and hard to find used.
Paul
On Oct 9, 2006, at 11:25 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote:

 Conversion factor for 6x7 lenses to 35mm is 1/2X.
 That is the 165mm 6x7 lens looks like a 82.5mm lens in 35mm.
 I like the 165/2.8 but it is really a short telephoto.
 Try the 75/4.5 lens for a 37.5mm equivalent wide in 35mm.
 It's not too expensive.
 Regards,  Bob S.

 On 10/9/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi all

 I may be on the verge of purchasing a 6x7 body and I'm wondering what 
 the
 conversion is for focal lengths since I'm used to thinking in 35mm 
 focal lengths.

 I won't really have much of a budget for lenses, etc so I'll have to 
 start with only
 one.  Considering what I plan to mostly use the body for, I want a 
 wide angle.  Can
 someone please suggest a good wide angle for the 6x7 for landscapes?  
 Preferably
 one that's fairly readily available used and not too expensive.  :)


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Re: Test post to list - ping!!

2006-10-10 Thread David Savage
forehand's it back down the line

On 10/10/06, Patrick Genovese [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --
 Regards

 Patrick Genovese

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Re: The JCO survey

2006-10-10 Thread Digital Image Studio
On 10/10/06, Lon Williamson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On the offhand chance that Pentax peeks at this list,
 I propose the following question:

 How many people here would consider an aperature
 simulator permitting (for K,M, and all other lenses with
 aperature rings) CW metering, open aperature metering
 in manual and AV modes a _highly_ desirable feature on
 the K1D?

 Put my name as the first on the list.

Sure, I'd pay a few more bucks for the facility :-)

-- 
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HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA
Tel +61-2-9554-4110
UTC(GMT)  +10 Hours
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio//publications/
Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998

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Re: 35mm equivalent focal length on P6x7

2006-10-10 Thread J and K Messervy
Thanks for all the replies.  I'll try to start of with a 45 or 55 mm.
- Original Message - 
From: Paul Stenquist [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: 35mm equivalent focal length on P6x7


 Better bets for wide 6x7 lenses are the 55/4 and the 45/4. Look for the 
 latest version of the 55/4 if you go that way. It has the typography on 
 the tapered end of the focusing ring. These lenses offer a field of 
 view similar to a 28 and 23 respectively. Excellent glass. The 75/4.5 
 is not highly regarded. There is a newer 75/2.8 that is superb, but 
 it's still pricey and hard to find used.
 Paul
 On Oct 9, 2006, at 11:25 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote:
 
 Conversion factor for 6x7 lenses to 35mm is 1/2X.
 That is the 165mm 6x7 lens looks like a 82.5mm lens in 35mm.
 I like the 165/2.8 but it is really a short telephoto.
 Try the 75/4.5 lens for a 37.5mm equivalent wide in 35mm.
 It's not too expensive.
 Regards,  Bob S.

 On 10/9/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi all

 I may be on the verge of purchasing a 6x7 body and I'm wondering what 
 the
 conversion is for focal lengths since I'm used to thinking in 35mm 
 focal lengths.

 I won't really have much of a budget for lenses, etc so I'll have to 
 start with only
 one.  Considering what I plan to mostly use the body for, I want a 
 wide angle.  Can
 someone please suggest a good wide angle for the 6x7 for landscapes?  
 Preferably
 one that's fairly readily available used and not too expensive.  :)


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Re: AF500FTZ flash

2006-10-10 Thread Tom Lesser
Any recommendations of specific brands/models of P-TTL flashes?

Thanks
Tom Lesser

On Oct 10, 2006, at 4:07 AM, Sylwester Pietrzyk wrote:

 On 10.10.2006, at 09:20 , Patrick Genovese wrote:

 Any ideas on how an AF500FTZ is expected to work with the K10D ?
 Only in manual mode as K10D doesn't support plain TTL. It's time to
 upgrade flash to P-TTL capable one...


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Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide

2006-10-10 Thread Adam Maas
Inet Shopper wrote:
 You can probably afford the 40 limited. It's very cheap (About 2/3rds 
 the cost of a new FA 35/2 here in Canada)
 
 If you mean the 43/1.9, it's currently US$370 after rebate at BH online, 
 while
 the FA 35/2 is US$300 (but out of stock). Does your Canadian store have a
 website? I'd like to take a look.

No, the 40/2.8 Limited Pancake. It's $299CDN at cameracanada.com, the FA 
35 is a little over $400CDN.

 
 Sigma 20/1.8. Massive, soft wide open, and expensive.
 
 OK I stand corrected. This IS a fast ultrawide lens. However, size and price
 rule it out for me.
 
 Yes, Auto flash works just fine, however the Pentax module is for TTL 
 use (Your Canon doesn't do TTL at all, just Auto Aperture flash). The 
 flash would need to have an Auto Thyristor mode with a non-dedicated 
 shoe. It also needs to be low voltage trigger (sub-12v).
 
 -Adam
 
 So I can just buy a standard (non-dedicated) module for the flash to use it
 with a K100D? I believe the flash has a thyristor, as it recharges more 
 quickly
 when manually set to fire at less than full power. Voltage-wise, Kevin 
 Bjorke's
 strobe voltage page indicates the Sunpak 30DX puts out 4.6-10.4V, so no
 problem.

Yes.

 
 Thanks for the comprehensive replies, by the way. Much appreciated!
 Benjamin
 

Glad to help.

-Adam


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Re: AF500FTZ flash

2006-10-10 Thread Adam Maas
Pentax. AF360FTZ or 540FTZ.

-Adam


Tom Lesser wrote:
 Any recommendations of specific brands/models of P-TTL flashes?
 
 Thanks
 Tom Lesser
 
 On Oct 10, 2006, at 4:07 AM, Sylwester Pietrzyk wrote:
 
 On 10.10.2006, at 09:20 , Patrick Genovese wrote:

 Any ideas on how an AF500FTZ is expected to work with the K10D ?
 Only in manual mode as K10D doesn't support plain TTL. It's time to
 upgrade flash to P-TTL capable one...
 
 


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Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide

2006-10-10 Thread Adam Maas
Inet Shopper wrote:
 You can probably afford the 40 limited. It's very cheap (About 2/3rds 
 the cost of a new FA 35/2 here in Canada)
 
 The Sigma's not worth the money. The Tamron is, but the SMC-DA 16-45 f4 
 goes for similar (or less) cost and is a better option IMHO. The 18-55 
 is actually decent (unlike the mediocre kit lenses from Canon and Nikon).
 
 -Adam
 
 Sorry, I just realized you meant the 40/2.8 Limited. It's tiny and not very
 expensive, but if I got it I'd probably still want something faster for night
 use. So I might as well omit it and save the money.
 
 Thanks for pointing out the 16-45/4. I'd wrongly assumed that it would be very
 expensive, yet it's priced like the Tamron 17-35/2.8-4. It looks like the 
 cheap
 route would be the kit lens and a used manual focus 28/2 or 35/2, and the more
 expensive route would be the 16-45/4 with the FA 35/2.
 
 I'm aware of the Vivitar/Kiron 28/2 lenses. In fact my 28/2 in FD mount is a
 Kiron, and I like it very much. But Kirons in Pentax KA mount aren't cheap or
 common either...
 
 Benjamin
 

The 16-45 was rather expensive for quite a while, it was reduced in 
price significantly early this summer.

-Adam

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Re: AF500FTZ flash

2006-10-10 Thread Tom Lesser
Will both also work on the *istD?  At any ISO setting? Are there 3rd 
party flashes that will work in P-TTL on D and K10D?

Thanks
Tom Lesser

On Oct 10, 2006, at 8:45 AM, Adam Maas wrote:

 Pentax. AF360FTZ or 540FTZ.

 Any recommendations of specific brands/models of P-TTL flashes?

 Any ideas on how an AF500FTZ is expected to work with the K10D ?
 Only in manual mode as K10D doesn't support plain TTL. It's time to
 upgrade flash to P-TTL capable one...


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K10D - RAW - JPEG in Camera

2006-10-10 Thread Shel Belinkoff
A friend who has ordered a K10D asked me what benefit there is to
converting a RAW file to a JPEG file in camera.  I offered a few ideas, but
I sometimes tend to miss the obvious or some subtleties.  So, can anyone
offer up some benefits to this feature.

Personally, I think it can be quite useful in some situations, such as when
travelling and you want to make some prints locally but don't have your
computer with you.  You can make a custom JPEG and print it at a kiosk or
instant print place quickly and easily.  Or you can make a custom JPEG,
instead of relying on the camera default, to send via email or burn on to a
CD and send to friends/family, also with no need for computer and image
processing software.  What else?


Shel




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Re: AF500FTZ flash

2006-10-10 Thread Doug Franklin
Tom Lesser wrote:
 Will both also work on the *istD?  At any ISO setting? Are there 3rd 
 party flashes that will work in P-TTL on D and K10D?

I've been using the Sigma EF-500 DG Super and have been pleased with it.
 But I'm no flashmeister.  I'm trying to get better, but I don't do
that much flash photography and never have.  So I've used it on the
camera and on a bracket on the camera, but I haven't done any of the
fancy contrast-control stuff or off-camera flash.

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Good weekend for Dave. Bad weekend for Pentax

2006-10-10 Thread Dave Brooks
Hi gang.

I'm back from one of the best weekends i'v had in a long time, for relaxation, 
not for photogaraphy wise.

Clear blue skies, AM temps -2 or 3 and day time +18-20 or there abouts.
Missed out on the better fall colours by about a week. They peaked last 
weekend, but a big rain/wind storm in the middle of the week blew most of them 
off. Still managed to get some more isoloated areas, so i;m happy. Shot 3 rolls 
of BW, one from the 6x7. I tend to shoot more BW in the fall and winter.

It was one of those, have a walk, sit and soak in the sun, have dinner 
weekends.:-)

Now, the bad part. While sitting with two others on a floating dock, shooting 
pictures
of my buddies chocolate lab playing in the water, the balance shifted on the 
dock and i went for a tumble. Leg of the chair broke off and instinct made my 
arm go out for support.
Only problem was in my hand was my istD and my daughters FA 70-200. The lens 
took the direct hit on the gangplank and bent the zoom barrel, but not the 
outer barrel, the inner one.
Glass looks ok, but i'm no expert so not sure of the damage extent. I know it 
will not foucus and zoom is very stiff.

Question.   Is it worth sending for repair or just look for another on eek bay 
etc.
I know they do not go for great sums of $$ anymore.

Also had the DA 16-45 fall out of my hand while putting it on my istD for 
supper shots. It didi not fall to far, onto some styrofoam boards(about 2')but 
it seems ok.

Thats the second time for both the 16-45 and camera to have a fall. Just 
wondering if i should have the camera and 16-45 inspected, or not.

Anyway, lots of pictures to sort through tonight.

Dave


David J Brooks
Equine, Pets, Bands, Rural Landscape Photography in York Region
www.caughtinmotion.com
Pentax istD, PZ-1, 6x7. Nikon D1 D1H D2H D200

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Re: AF500FTZ flash

2006-10-10 Thread Dario Bonazza
The Sigma EF500 DG Super works well on my D,

Whichever the PTTL flash you'll use, keep all contacts perfectly clean, 
including those on the camera flange and lens mount. Over the years, I've 
been fooled a couple times by unreliable info exchange between camera and 
lens, leading to full power flash firing.

Dario

- Original Message - 
From: Tom Lesser [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: AF500FTZ flash


 Will both also work on the *istD?  At any ISO setting? Are there 3rd
 party flashes that will work in P-TTL on D and K10D?

 Thanks
 Tom Lesser

 On Oct 10, 2006, at 8:45 AM, Adam Maas wrote:

 Pentax. AF360FTZ or 540FTZ.

 Any recommendations of specific brands/models of P-TTL flashes?

 Any ideas on how an AF500FTZ is expected to work with the K10D ?
 Only in manual mode as K10D doesn't support plain TTL. It's time to
 upgrade flash to P-TTL capable one...


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OT - Go Tigers!

2006-10-10 Thread Russell Kerstetter
I don't start paying attention to baseball usually unitl the playoffs
are over (I'm not a huge sports type...), but I love it when the
underdogs come out on top.  So congrats to all you Motor-city types!

Russell

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Re: K100D- anybody bought one?

2006-10-10 Thread gfen
On Mon, 9 Oct 2006, J. C. O'Connell wrote:
 Anybody bought the K100D and how do you
 Like it so far? Is the anti-shake working
 As well as touted? What are the pros/cons
 If any (other than K/M lens issues)???

I did, it came in Friday morning.

I haven't had much of a chance to use it, yet, but I've learned:

#1 Lesson: Not caring about film cost kicks ass! 
I need to read the manual.
Antishake is pretty clever. I'm hand holding below my old cutoff, 1/45. 
That it looks like using K/M lenses isn't so bad with the AE button.
My old flash, an AF280T, no longer works with this body.
The wireless remote doesn't let you utilize the autowinder, or whatever 
we'd call it. Multiple shot feature. Eh. Whatever.
I need to read the manual.
The digital preview version of DoF is actually pretty useful.
That having a 50/1.4 turn into a 75/1.4 isn't desirable.
That I wish they made and I owned a 35/1.4. I'll settle for teh 35/2.0.
The lack of short focal length lenses bites.
I've re-learned how nice Pentax lenses are.
I wish I had camera movements. :)
There's too many damned buttons.
I need to read the manual.
Wait, I have to set ISO? It does for me? Huh? What? Eh?
Multiple AF points seems to be useless.
Evidently, raw images from the camera don't go into Photoshop?
I wish I knew what I was doing.
I need to read the manual.
I need to learn that I have a preview screen right on teh camera, and I 
don't need to go home, download the photos into the PC and then see what I 
got. 

I haven't really tried full manual mode, so I haven't had to get used to 
using wheels and buttons in combinations, although I rarely used anything 
but Av mode, anyways.

Its a brave new world. I'm not sure I'm ready for it. I realized that 
after I came home and decided to look at the images, only to realize I 
oculd've proofed in the field and corrected for shoddy composition. Then, 
to muddle my way around a bit, and try to figure out how to get things 
into various programs left me befuddled. I really did forget that I can 
look at the preview screen in the field, and I truly regret the lack of 
camera movements.. You don't know how often you use them or how useful 
they are until they're gone.

I know your beef is with the use of pre-A lenses. I haven't given it much 
work, but when I read from someone how to use the AE lock button to stop 
down, meter, and then display it in the view finder I became much more 
placated by it. Its still probably not idea for people who need to quickly 
function with their pre-A lenses, but for me, it works just fine.

I'm somewhat confused, though, in reading that the newest lens lines 
forthcoming I'm going to lose the ability to autofocus, though. While I 
probably won't be able to afford anything with an asterik in its name, it 
bothers me none the less.

I'd also like to see Pentax release a line of value priced, fast prime 
lenses for these things. If they're going to make 'em for a little CCD and 
omit the aperature ring, I'd hope they were within the price range of a 
non-pro. Alas, the days of the prime lens are probably as over as the days 
of film flagship bodies. 

Oh, and the last thing I learned from buying a K100D: I need to read the 
manual.

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Re: AF500FTZ flash

2006-10-10 Thread pnstenquist
The Sigma 500DG Super works very well. I've used one with my D. I just sent it 
in to have it upgraded for use with teh K10D. it was returned in just over a 
week. Great service. Units bought new will now give P-TTL with all the Pentax 
digital SLRs. They also are capable of trailing curtain shutter, wireless and 
high-speed synch. I regularly use one for shooting birds at 1/1000th shutter 
speed.
Paul
 -- Original message --
From: Adam Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Pentax. AF360FTZ or 540FTZ.
 
 -Adam
 
 
 Tom Lesser wrote:
  Any recommendations of specific brands/models of P-TTL flashes?
  
  Thanks
  Tom Lesser
  
  On Oct 10, 2006, at 4:07 AM, Sylwester Pietrzyk wrote:
  
  On 10.10.2006, at 09:20 , Patrick Genovese wrote:
 
  Any ideas on how an AF500FTZ is expected to work with the K10D ?
  Only in manual mode as K10D doesn't support plain TTL. It's time to
  upgrade flash to P-TTL capable one...
  
  
 
 
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Re: Well, that's it, I cracked.

2006-10-10 Thread gfen
On Sat, 7 Oct 2006, Adam Maas wrote:
 DA Limiteds are already here. 21 f3.2 Pancake, 40 f2.8 Pancake and the 
 70 f2.4 Pancake due any moment. The 40 is quite cheap ($300CDN), the 
 other two are more money, but  still a lot cheaper than FA limiteds.

The downside is I don't want pancake lenses, I want larger units with 
some holding space on 'em. And I want that 21mm faster than 3.2. I'd trade 
off the pancake ability for another 1.5 or 2 stops of speed at the same 
price point, but what do I know? I mostly make this up as I go along...

As for a 70/2.4? Eh, whatever. An FA50/1.4 will probably be under cost and 
1.33 stops faster. Again, maybe the little pancake thing appeals to 
someone, somewhere, but it ain't me. 

Its the right direction, but not what I'm looking for exactly (then again, 
what I'm mostly looking for is something to complain about). 



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Re: K10D - RAW - JPEG in Camera

2006-10-10 Thread David J Brooks
Thats pretty much the way i use them Shel.

To add to the list, i might use the in camera jpeg to make a quick web  
page for viewing.
These in camera jpeg/raws do come in handy once in a while.:-)


Dave

Quoting Shel Belinkoff [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 A friend who has ordered a K10D asked me what benefit there is to
 converting a RAW file to a JPEG file in camera.  I offered a few ideas, but
 I sometimes tend to miss the obvious or some subtleties.  So, can anyone
 offer up some benefits to this feature.

 Personally, I think it can be quite useful in some situations, such as when
 travelling and you want to make some prints locally but don't have your
 computer with you.  You can make a custom JPEG and print it at a kiosk or
 instant print place quickly and easily.  Or you can make a custom JPEG,
 instead of relying on the camera default, to send via email or burn on to a
 CD and send to friends/family, also with no need for computer and image
 processing software.  What else?


 Shel




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Equine Photography in York Region

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Re: The JCO survey

2006-10-10 Thread William Robb

- Original Message - 
From: J. C. O'Connell
Subject: RE: The JCO survey


 Digital has nothing to do with this issue.
 There is no reason why thay cant make and sell
 A digital SLR that supports the lenses in question.
 Compromise is NOT necessary to go digital, that's
 The whole point of my argument. I want BOTH.


You can't have both, you won't get both, and no matter how much you 
whine, that isn't going to change.
Grow up.

William Robb 



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Re: PESO: Harvest Moon

2006-10-10 Thread William Robb

- Original Message - 
From: Jack Davis
Subject: Re: PESO: Harvest Moon


 You're not the only one, Bill!
 Speaking of poo, you critiqued the background of one of my shot as 
 crap
 and you'll be thrilled to learn that, while I didn't say do at the
 time, you were right.
 You'll probably never be considerate enough to post a shot that will
 allow me to retaliate. =)

I posted an entire gallery a couple of weeks ago.
Go fishing

William Robb 



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OT: Need help with Titanium Toast

2006-10-10 Thread pnstenquist
Sorry for being WAY OT, but I'm having a problem with Titanium Toast 6 that has 
me befuddled and frustrated. I transfer my digital video tapes to DVD using 
Toast. I shoot the video in 16 x 9 format, load it into Toast, which then 
converts it to NTSC and writes it to the DVD. It's always come out looking 
exactly like the original in 16 x 9 format. Until now. The last two times I've 
transfered video, Toast has stretched it to something like 2.25:1. I think it's 
happening either when it writes it to disc or when it converts to NTSC. I don't 
remember changing any settings, but I might have done so inadvertently. 
However, I've searched every menu and preference on Toast and can't find 
anything that relates to screen formating. Does anyone here know enough about 
Toast to help?
Paul

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Re: The JCO survey

2006-10-10 Thread William Robb

- Original Message - 
From: Adam Maas 
Subject: Re: The JCO survey


 Read what the heck I wrote (Hint, you just agreed with it).

Hell, if he did that, he wouldn't have anything to argue about.

William Robb


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K100D Anti-shake

2006-10-10 Thread J. C. O'Connell
Someone commented the Anti shake in the K100d works
Better with A than with KM lenses. W H Y ?
I do not understand how that could be true as the
Camera shouldn't be handling them differently.
Curious.
JCO


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Re: 35mm equivalent focal length on P6x7

2006-10-10 Thread Mark Roberts
Bob Sullivan wrote:

I like the 165/2.8 but it is really a short telephoto.
Try the 75/4.5 lens for a 37.5mm equivalent wide in 35mm.

If I can ever find a 67-645 adapter the 165/2.8 is one of the lenses 
I'd like to try out on my 645. I think it would be a nice portrait 
length.


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Re: RE: The JCO survey

2006-10-10 Thread Mark Roberts
mike wilson wrote:

 From: David Savage [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 If you want to go to digital then you're going to have to make a 
 compromise at some stage.

Mark!

(There's nothing like out-of-context to make a point)
8-

Heck, you could replace the words go digital with almost anything 
ralated to photography!

Want to go from 35mm to 645? You're going to have to compromise on 
depth of field. Want to go to 67? Compromise a little more. Want a 
faster lens? You're going to have to compromise on small size (and low 
price). Etc. Etc.


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Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-10 Thread Gonz
I think we know what you want John.  I'm sorry to tell you that you are 
not going to get it, short of a miracle.  Pentax has made a decision, we 
may not agree with it, but at least some of us can live with it. You 
need to either stick with film, or pick some other system, but your 
beloved K/M lenses are going to have to use the green button on Pentax 
cameras.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Dead to you maybe.. I havent given up on the matter (yet) .. 
 Full frame too!
 jco
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
 William Robb
 Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 5:32 PM
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
 Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
 
 
 - Original Message - 
 From: J. C. O'Connell 
 Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
 
 
 
The stop down metering is the culprit of falling out
Of the metering range too easy, especially at small f-stop
Settings. This is one of the key reasons OPEN aperture
Metering was developed about 35 YEARS ago.
 
 
 You aren't saying anything new.
 This is pretty much a dead topic.
 
 William Robb
 
 

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Re: Well, that's it, I cracked.

2006-10-10 Thread gfen
On Sat, 7 Oct 2006, Adam Maas wrote:
  Some c'mon Pentax, where are the DA* or DA-Limited lenses? ;) And, since 
  you're omitting aperature rings, make 'em cheap for us thrifty types, I 
  can't afford the 31 Limited. 

On the other hand, there's a Sigma 30/1.4! 

Now, that's what I'm talking about.. I gotta go find me some review of 
this guy.. Anyone here with first hand experience? I'd hate to give up 
Pentax SMC, but you can't win 'em all...

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Re: The JCO survey

2006-10-10 Thread William Robb

- Original Message - 
From: P. J. Alling
Subject: Re: The JCO survey




 They don't know how many more sales they'll get with an aperture
 simulator included, part of the reason they're getting these
 pre-orders
 it the touted backward compatibility.  If were better wouldn't it be
 logical to expect better sales to old farts like us?  I'm certain that
 they'd have one more if it had one. In fact I think there'd be a lot
 more.  There may even be pre-orders by old users who don't know the
 limitations caused by lack of an aperture simulator, it's so seldom
 mentioned in the reviews.  Those people will be disappointed and won't
 help create positive buzz about the next camera release.  We get a
 number of questions on this list about that regularly.  How many of
 them
 decided to stay with Pentax or move on.   We don't know, and neither
 does Pentax.

The success of these, and earlier Pentax DSLR's, indicates that the
lack of the aperture simulator isn't costing them sufficient sales to
be concerned about.


 Which may not last.  They still need all the sales they can get, and
 every useful feature helps.

They need every sale thay can get, and the market is very price
sensitive.
Add a couple of hundred dollars to the price of a camera, and someone
else will come along and scoop that camera's potential customers with a
lower priced unit, and the product becomes a money loser.
Or, they have to sell the unit at a price which does not allow them 
sufficient profit to make up for the extra feature (in this case, an 
aperture simulator), and the product becomes a money loser.
It's purely a money thing.
I'm surprised you don't understand that.

William Robb



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Re: Good weekend for Dave. Bad weekend for Pentax

2006-10-10 Thread P. J. Alling
You can probably find a used FA 70-200 for less than the cost to repair 
the old one, though you'll know nothing of it's history.  As for having 
the other 16-45 and the camera checked out, I don't know.  If they work 
and there doesn't seem to be any degradation in performance I'd just 
keep using them.

Dave Brooks wrote:

Hi gang.

I'm back from one of the best weekends i'v had in a long time, for relaxation, 
not for photogaraphy wise.

Clear blue skies, AM temps -2 or 3 and day time +18-20 or there abouts.
Missed out on the better fall colours by about a week. They peaked last 
weekend, but a big rain/wind storm in the middle of the week blew most of them 
off. Still managed to get some more isoloated areas, so i;m happy. Shot 3 
rolls of BW, one from the 6x7. I tend to shoot more BW in the fall and 
winter.

It was one of those, have a walk, sit and soak in the sun, have dinner 
weekends.:-)

Now, the bad part. While sitting with two others on a floating dock, shooting 
pictures
of my buddies chocolate lab playing in the water, the balance shifted on the 
dock and i went for a tumble. Leg of the chair broke off and instinct made my 
arm go out for support.
Only problem was in my hand was my istD and my daughters FA 70-200. The lens 
took the direct hit on the gangplank and bent the zoom barrel, but not the 
outer barrel, the inner one.
Glass looks ok, but i'm no expert so not sure of the damage extent. I know it 
will not foucus and zoom is very stiff.

Question.   Is it worth sending for repair or just look for another on eek bay 
etc.
I know they do not go for great sums of $$ anymore.

Also had the DA 16-45 fall out of my hand while putting it on my istD for 
supper shots. It didi not fall to far, onto some styrofoam boards(about 2')but 
it seems ok.

Thats the second time for both the 16-45 and camera to have a fall. Just 
wondering if i should have the camera and 16-45 inspected, or not.

Anyway, lots of pictures to sort through tonight.

Dave


David J Brooks
Equine, Pets, Bands, Rural Landscape Photography in York Region
www.caughtinmotion.com
Pentax istD, PZ-1, 6x7. Nikon D1 D1H D2H D200

  



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Re: K10D - RAW - JPEG in Camera

2006-10-10 Thread Lon Williamson
Shel, the only other thing I can think of is to send timely PJ or other 
type stuff out very soon after you shoot,
not necessarily to family/friends.

Shel Belinkoff wrote:

A friend who has ordered a K10D asked me what benefit there is to
converting a RAW file to a JPEG file in camera.  I offered a few ideas, but
I sometimes tend to miss the obvious or some subtleties.  So, can anyone
offer up some benefits to this feature.

Personally, I think it can be quite useful in some situations, such as when
travelling and you want to make some prints locally but don't have your
computer with you.  You can make a custom JPEG and print it at a kiosk or
instant print place quickly and easily.  Or you can make a custom JPEG,
instead of relying on the camera default, to send via email or burn on to a
CD and send to friends/family, also with no need for computer and image
processing software.  What else?
  


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Re: AF500FTZ flash

2006-10-10 Thread Adam Maas
Paul,

The fact it needed to be upgraded to work with a new camera using the 
exact same protocol says all it needs to about the Sigma. It's not in 
spec for P-TTL (If it was, you wouldn't need to get it upgraded).

-Adam


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 The Sigma 500DG Super works very well. I've used one with my D. I just sent 
 it in to have it upgraded for use with teh K10D. it was returned in just over 
 a week. Great service. Units bought new will now give P-TTL with all the 
 Pentax digital SLRs. They also are capable of trailing curtain shutter, 
 wireless and high-speed synch. I regularly use one for shooting birds at 
 1/1000th shutter speed.
 Paul
  -- Original message --
 From: Adam Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
Pentax. AF360FTZ or 540FTZ.

-Adam


Tom Lesser wrote:

Any recommendations of specific brands/models of P-TTL flashes?

Thanks
Tom Lesser

On Oct 10, 2006, at 4:07 AM, Sylwester Pietrzyk wrote:


On 10.10.2006, at 09:20 , Patrick Genovese wrote:


Any ideas on how an AF500FTZ is expected to work with the K10D ?

Only in manual mode as K10D doesn't support plain TTL. It's time to
upgrade flash to P-TTL capable one...



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Re: 35mm equivalent focal length on P6x7

2006-10-10 Thread William Robb

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject: 35mm equivalent focal length on P6x7


 Hi all

 I may be on the verge of purchasing a 6x7 body and I'm wondering what 
 the
 conversion is for focal lengths since I'm used to thinking in 35mm 
 focal lengths.

 I won't really have much of a budget for lenses, etc so I'll have to 
 start with only
 one.  Considering what I plan to mostly use the body for, I want a 
 wide angle.  Can
 someone please suggest a good wide angle for the 6x7 for landscapes? 
 Preferably
 one that's fairly readily available used and not too expensive.  :)

The 75/4.5 is sharp, but a bit flarey, the 45/4 is excellent, and any of 
the 55s are good, expect the older ones to show some flare.

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Re: K10D - RAW - JPEG in Camera

2006-10-10 Thread Shel Belinkoff
Thanks Lon - you kicked my brain into gear ;-))  It just crossed my mind
that by shooting RAW and converting to JPEG later, you may be able to shoot
faster as the camera isn't processing a RAW and a JPEG file at the same
time.  Is that a reasonable assumption?

Shel



 [Original Message]
 From: Lon Williamson 

 Shel, the only other thing I can think of is to send 
 timely PJ or other  type stuff out very soon after 
 you shoot, not necessarily to family/friends.

 Shel Belinkoff wrote:

  A friend who has ordered a K10D asked me what benefit
  there is to converting a RAW file to a JPEG file in camera.  
  I offered a few ideas, but I sometimes tend to miss the 
  obvious or some subtleties.  So, can anyoneoffer up some 
  benefits to this feature.



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Re: AF500FTZ flash

2006-10-10 Thread Mark Roberts
Tom Lesser wrote:

Any recommendations of specific brands/models of P-TTL flashes?

I'm using the Sigma EF 500 DG Super. I'm *very* pleased with it.


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Re: The JCO survey

2006-10-10 Thread Gonz


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Lon Williamson wrote:
  The 
 only aperture stimulation at Pentax is via their endoscopes.
 

Mark!!

rg

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RE: Well, that's it, I cracked.

2006-10-10 Thread J. C. O'Connell
The pankcake 40mm F2.8 M lens is just another example
Of a lens where there is NO NEW EQUIV.
These lenses should be fully supported as you cant
Even buy a new one like it if you wanted to.
joc

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
gfen
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 10:02 AM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: Well, that's it, I cracked.

On Sat, 7 Oct 2006, Adam Maas wrote:
 DA Limiteds are already here. 21 f3.2 Pancake, 40 f2.8 Pancake and the

 70 f2.4 Pancake due any moment. The 40 is quite cheap ($300CDN), the 
 other two are more money, but  still a lot cheaper than FA limiteds.

The downside is I don't want pancake lenses, I want larger units with 
some holding space on 'em. And I want that 21mm faster than 3.2. I'd
trade 
off the pancake ability for another 1.5 or 2 stops of speed at the
same 
price point, but what do I know? I mostly make this up as I go along...

As for a 70/2.4? Eh, whatever. An FA50/1.4 will probably be under cost
and 
1.33 stops faster. Again, maybe the little pancake thing appeals to 
someone, somewhere, but it ain't me. 

Its the right direction, but not what I'm looking for exactly (then
again, 
what I'm mostly looking for is something to complain about). 



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Re: K100D Anti-shake

2006-10-10 Thread Adam Maas
J. C. O'Connell wrote:
 Someone commented the Anti shake in the K100d works
 Better with A than with KM lenses. W H Y ?
 I do not understand how that could be true as the
 Camera shouldn't be handling them differently.
 Curious.
 JCO
 

I'm baffled as well, unless it takes absolute aperture into account 
somehow. But I'm getting 1.5-2 stops from K/M glass and 2-3 stops from A 
and F glass on my K100D.

-Adam



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Re: Pentax DSLR - some questions before I decide

2006-10-10 Thread P. J. Alling
No actually there is a 40mm f2.8 Ltd., designed specifically for the APS 
format digital cameras.  It's mostly an update of the old 40mm pancake 
lens, looks to be the same optical formula with new coatings and a lens 
barrel with no aperture ring.

Inet Shopper wrote:

You can probably afford the 40 limited. It's very cheap (About 2/3rds 
the cost of a new FA 35/2 here in Canada)



If you mean the 43/1.9, it's currently US$370 after rebate at BH online, while
the FA 35/2 is US$300 (but out of stock). Does your Canadian store have a
website? I'd like to take a look.

  

Sigma 20/1.8. Massive, soft wide open, and expensive.



OK I stand corrected. This IS a fast ultrawide lens. However, size and price
rule it out for me.

  

Yes, Auto flash works just fine, however the Pentax module is for TTL 
use (Your Canon doesn't do TTL at all, just Auto Aperture flash). The 
flash would need to have an Auto Thyristor mode with a non-dedicated 
shoe. It also needs to be low voltage trigger (sub-12v).



  

-Adam



So I can just buy a standard (non-dedicated) module for the flash to use it
with a K100D? I believe the flash has a thyristor, as it recharges more quickly
when manually set to fire at less than full power. Voltage-wise, Kevin Bjorke's
strobe voltage page indicates the Sunpak 30DX puts out 4.6-10.4V, so no
problem.

Thanks for the comprehensive replies, by the way. Much appreciated!
Benjamin

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

  



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RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-10 Thread J. C. O'Connell
I don't understand why you all assume its not going
To happen. That is an unknown and if enough users
Give Pentax feedback they might actually make products
With features we really want and are willing to pay for.
jco

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Gonz
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 10:34 AM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

I think we know what you want John.  I'm sorry to tell you that you are 
not going to get it, short of a miracle.  Pentax has made a decision, we

may not agree with it, but at least some of us can live with it. You 
need to either stick with film, or pick some other system, but your 
beloved K/M lenses are going to have to use the green button on Pentax 
cameras.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Dead to you maybe.. I havent given up on the matter (yet) .. 
 Full frame too!
 jco
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of
 William Robb
 Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 5:32 PM
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
 Subject: Re: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
 
 
 - Original Message - 
 From: J. C. O'Connell 
 Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?
 
 
 
The stop down metering is the culprit of falling out
Of the metering range too easy, especially at small f-stop
Settings. This is one of the key reasons OPEN aperture
Metering was developed about 35 YEARS ago.
 
 
 You aren't saying anything new.
 This is pretty much a dead topic.
 
 William Robb
 
 

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Re: K100D- anybody bought one?

2006-10-10 Thread P. J. Alling
Have fun, I don't know what you consider affordable but he new DA 
limiteds seem to more than a few dollars less expensive than the old 
Limiteds, with the same quality build, though a bit slower, and no 
aperture ring. 

gfen wrote:

On Mon, 9 Oct 2006, J. C. O'Connell wrote:
  

Anybody bought the K100D and how do you
Like it so far? Is the anti-shake working
As well as touted? What are the pros/cons
If any (other than K/M lens issues)???



I did, it came in Friday morning.

I haven't had much of a chance to use it, yet, but I've learned:

#1 Lesson: Not caring about film cost kicks ass! 
I need to read the manual.
Antishake is pretty clever. I'm hand holding below my old cutoff, 1/45. 
That it looks like using K/M lenses isn't so bad with the AE button.
My old flash, an AF280T, no longer works with this body.
The wireless remote doesn't let you utilize the autowinder, or whatever 
we'd call it. Multiple shot feature. Eh. Whatever.
I need to read the manual.
The digital preview version of DoF is actually pretty useful.
That having a 50/1.4 turn into a 75/1.4 isn't desirable.
That I wish they made and I owned a 35/1.4. I'll settle for teh 35/2.0.
The lack of short focal length lenses bites.
I've re-learned how nice Pentax lenses are.
I wish I had camera movements. :)
There's too many damned buttons.
I need to read the manual.
Wait, I have to set ISO? It does for me? Huh? What? Eh?
Multiple AF points seems to be useless.
Evidently, raw images from the camera don't go into Photoshop?
I wish I knew what I was doing.
I need to read the manual.
I need to learn that I have a preview screen right on teh camera, and I 
don't need to go home, download the photos into the PC and then see what I 
got. 

I haven't really tried full manual mode, so I haven't had to get used to 
using wheels and buttons in combinations, although I rarely used anything 
but Av mode, anyways.

Its a brave new world. I'm not sure I'm ready for it. I realized that 
after I came home and decided to look at the images, only to realize I 
oculd've proofed in the field and corrected for shoddy composition. Then, 
to muddle my way around a bit, and try to figure out how to get things 
into various programs left me befuddled. I really did forget that I can 
look at the preview screen in the field, and I truly regret the lack of 
camera movements.. You don't know how often you use them or how useful 
they are until they're gone.

I know your beef is with the use of pre-A lenses. I haven't given it much 
work, but when I read from someone how to use the AE lock button to stop 
down, meter, and then display it in the view finder I became much more 
placated by it. Its still probably not idea for people who need to quickly 
function with their pre-A lenses, but for me, it works just fine.

I'm somewhat confused, though, in reading that the newest lens lines 
forthcoming I'm going to lose the ability to autofocus, though. While I 
probably won't be able to afford anything with an asterik in its name, it 
bothers me none the less.

I'd also like to see Pentax release a line of value priced, fast prime 
lenses for these things. If they're going to make 'em for a little CCD and 
omit the aperature ring, I'd hope they were within the price range of a 
non-pro. Alas, the days of the prime lens are probably as over as the days 
of film flagship bodies. 

Oh, and the last thing I learned from buying a K100D: I need to read the 
manual.

  



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Re: AF500FTZ flash

2006-10-10 Thread Adam Maas
They'll even work on the LX. Full backwards compatibility.

Sigma sells a flash that claims to do P-TTL, but I wouldn't touch a 
Sigma flash with a 10' pole. Crap electronics, and not likely to work 
with the next set of bodies.

-Adam


Tom Lesser wrote:
 Will both also work on the *istD?  At any ISO setting? Are there 3rd 
 party flashes that will work in P-TTL on D and K10D?
 
 Thanks
 Tom Lesser
 
 On Oct 10, 2006, at 8:45 AM, Adam Maas wrote:
 
 
Pentax. AF360FTZ or 540FTZ.


Any recommendations of specific brands/models of P-TTL flashes?


Any ideas on how an AF500FTZ is expected to work with the K10D ?

Only in manual mode as K10D doesn't support plain TTL. It's time to
upgrade flash to P-TTL capable one...
 
 
 



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RE: K100D Anti-shake

2006-10-10 Thread J. C. O'Connell
Testing error? Seem anti shake should be based 
On camera movement, not aperure. F stop has nothing
To do with image stabilization corrections, if it
Does in the camera that would be a mistake. Sure your
Not just trying to knock the K/M for no reason. 
It also seems like something not easy to test scientifically
Because you would need repeatable shake and same
Focal lengths and optical qualities of the lenses to 
Be sure.
jco

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Adam Maas
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 10:55 AM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: K100D Anti-shake

J. C. O'Connell wrote:
 Someone commented the Anti shake in the K100d works
 Better with A than with KM lenses. W H Y ?
 I do not understand how that could be true as the
 Camera shouldn't be handling them differently.
 Curious.
 JCO
 

I'm baffled as well, unless it takes absolute aperture into account 
somehow. But I'm getting 1.5-2 stops from K/M glass and 2-3 stops from A

and F glass on my K100D.

-Adam



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Re: K100D Anti-shake

2006-10-10 Thread Christian
Adam Maas wrote:

 
 I'm baffled as well, unless it takes absolute aperture into account 
 somehow. But I'm getting 1.5-2 stops from K/M glass and 2-3 stops from A 
 and F glass on my K100D.
 
 -Adam

Silly question, but can you give us a breakdown of lenses tested (focal 
length and series) as well as shooting aperture and shutter speed?

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Re: The JCO survey

2006-10-10 Thread Lon Williamson
I'm not sure that protecting new lens sales by prohibiting open 
aperature metering
for K and P lenses makes sense.  Most people I know with AF cameras WANT
AF lenses, and some, like my ex wife, can no longer reliably perform 
manual focus
(eye problems).  But IF the K1D is produced and IF it is a flagship, my 
suspicion
is that Pentax will sell more bodies with true K/M lens compatibility 
without impacting
modern AF lens sales.  If anything, I suspect they'll sell more modern 
lenses, especially
super wide angle..

BTW, I'm collecting names of all who have responded to the survey, 
whether Aye,
Don't Give A Fig, or Nay.  I'm hoping to email and snail mail Pentax USA 
and Pentax
Japan results.

Be prepared for a Survey Part Deaux

Love you bunch of K-mount fools.  -Lon

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Re: K100D Anti-shake

2006-10-10 Thread Adam Maas
Christian wrote:
 Adam Maas wrote:
 
 
I'm baffled as well, unless it takes absolute aperture into account 
somehow. But I'm getting 1.5-2 stops from K/M glass and 2-3 stops from A 
and F glass on my K100D.

-Adam
 
 
 Silly question, but can you give us a breakdown of lenses tested (focal 
 length and series) as well as shooting aperture and shutter speed?
 

Focal lengths tested were: 28mm (k), 50mm (M, M42), 35-80mm (F) and 
70-210(A), which is essentially my full kit (Barring a few lenses I 
rarely use). With the 28 and 50's, SR on, the bottom for reliable 
shooting seems to be 1/15 wide open (f2 for the K mount lenses, f1.4 for 
the M42) although I can sometimes get as low as 1/8. I could reliably 
get the 35-80 down to 1/10-1/8 wide open, but never lower. The 70-210 is 
around 1/15 at the short end and 1/25 at the long end for minimum 
shutter, although I'm getting better results at 1/50 at 210mm (which is 
still pretty damned good).

-Adam


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Re: The JCO survey

2006-10-10 Thread Mark Roberts
P. J. Alling wrote:

If were better wouldn't it be 
logical to expect better sales to old farts like us? 

But Pentax have concluded there wouldn't be *enough*.

If adding the aperture simulator costs $5.00 per camera (much lower 
than what I've heard from people at Pentax but it'll do for 
demonstration purposes) a production run of 10,000 cameras will have an 
additional manufacturing cost of $50,000.00.

If it results in sales of 1000 cameras to *people who wouldn't have 
bought the camera otherwise*, that's not even going to come close to 
recouping its cost. Of course we can argue the numbers, like the actual 
per-camera cost and the number of people to whom this feature is a 
deal-breaker (I'd guess far less than 1000, you'd certainly predict 
more), but the bottom line is that Pentax has already made these 
calculations to their satisfaction.



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Re: The JCO survey

2006-10-10 Thread Mark Roberts
William Robb wrote:

Add a couple of hundred dollars to the price of a camera, and someone
else will come along and scoop that camera's potential customers with a
lower priced unit, 

A couple of hundred dollars? Try five dollars. Plenty of people make 
multi-hundred dollar decisions bases on cost differences like this. I 
find it baffling but that's how a lot of people think.

(I'm *really* glad I don't work retail any more...)


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ebay woes

2006-10-10 Thread Gonz
Sold my *istD to a fellow in the UK.  He has good ebay history and has 
purchased comparable cameras via international sellers in the past.  He 
sent me the money via paypal, I used it to by the K100D as a backup to 
the upcoming K10D.

Its now been 4 weeks and the package has yet to arrive and he is asking 
for a refund.  When I sent it, I asked him how much insurance he wanted 
to put on it and he said $500, since it was his nickle that was being 
used to buy the insurance.  Unfortunately this does not cover the $650 
he paid for it including the grip.

I dont understand how the UK Royalmail/Parcelforce can be so incompetent 
it seems.  The US post office website shows the package arriving in the 
UK on Sep 20th.  The Royalmail/Parcelforce people keep pointing fingers 
at each other saying that the other guy is handling it.  And their 
website doesnt even know that the package exists.

Should I refund this guy $500 or the full amount he paid for it?  I 
mean, he responded $500 when I asked him how much insurance he wanted on 
it.  But the problem is that I'm the one that has to collect the 
insurance and send it to him.

He has been patient enough to wait for the recommended amount of time 
before making a complaint (4 weeks).  But I'm left wondering whether the 
UK customs/mail system is just slow and we should give it more time.

What do you guys think?

Thanks,

rg

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RE: The JCO survey

2006-10-10 Thread J. C. O'Connell
Couple hundred dollars for cam sensor? that's absurd
if anti shake is only $100 retail. $25.00-35.00 retail
is probably a more accurate figure. Cheap! That is one
of the reasons I am so pissed off about it, a key feature
is missing for virtually NO savings in the final cost
of the body. That's dumb.
jco

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
William Robb
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 10:08 AM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: The JCO survey


- Original Message - 
From: P. J. Alling
Subject: Re: The JCO survey




 They don't know how many more sales they'll get with an aperture
 simulator included, part of the reason they're getting these
 pre-orders
 it the touted backward compatibility.  If were better wouldn't it be
 logical to expect better sales to old farts like us?  I'm certain that
 they'd have one more if it had one. In fact I think there'd be a lot
 more.  There may even be pre-orders by old users who don't know the
 limitations caused by lack of an aperture simulator, it's so seldom
 mentioned in the reviews.  Those people will be disappointed and won't
 help create positive buzz about the next camera release.  We get a
 number of questions on this list about that regularly.  How many of
 them
 decided to stay with Pentax or move on.   We don't know, and neither
 does Pentax.

The success of these, and earlier Pentax DSLR's, indicates that the
lack of the aperture simulator isn't costing them sufficient sales to
be concerned about.


 Which may not last.  They still need all the sales they can get, and
 every useful feature helps.

They need every sale thay can get, and the market is very price
sensitive.
Add a couple of hundred dollars to the price of a camera, and someone
else will come along and scoop that camera's potential customers with a
lower priced unit, and the product becomes a money loser.
Or, they have to sell the unit at a price which does not allow them 
sufficient profit to make up for the extra feature (in this case, an 
aperture simulator), and the product becomes a money loser.
It's purely a money thing.
I'm surprised you don't understand that.

William Robb



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Re: PESO: Truth

2006-10-10 Thread frank theriault
On 10/9/06, Ralf R. Radermacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Truth is always the first victim of war.

 For Anna Politkovskaja:

 http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/mypics/770012/display/6884088

 http://www.rsf.org

I agree with everyone else.  Extremely powerful image!

Are those the gates to a concentration camp?  A wartime cemetary?  An
old battlefield?

I'm just wondering about your reference to war.

cheers,
frank


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Re: AF500FTZ flash

2006-10-10 Thread Paul Sorenson
The Sigma EF 500 DG Super is an excellent flash - I have one that works 
well with the DS and DS2.  However, the earlier units won't work with 
the K100D (don't know about the K10D).  Sigma has a recall on them for a 
free upgrade.  Just send the flash to them, they'll install the upgrade 
and return it to you.

-P

Mark Roberts wrote:
 Tom Lesser wrote:
 
 Any recommendations of specific brands/models of P-TTL flashes?
 
 I'm using the Sigma EF 500 DG Super. I'm *very* pleased with it.
 
 


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Re: ebay woes

2006-10-10 Thread pnstenquist
$500 if you can collect it from the insurance people. Good luck.
 -- Original message --
From: Gonz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sold my *istD to a fellow in the UK.  He has good ebay history and has 
 purchased comparable cameras via international sellers in the past.  He 
 sent me the money via paypal, I used it to by the K100D as a backup to 
 the upcoming K10D.
 
 Its now been 4 weeks and the package has yet to arrive and he is asking 
 for a refund.  When I sent it, I asked him how much insurance he wanted 
 to put on it and he said $500, since it was his nickle that was being 
 used to buy the insurance.  Unfortunately this does not cover the $650 
 he paid for it including the grip.
 
 I dont understand how the UK Royalmail/Parcelforce can be so incompetent 
 it seems.  The US post office website shows the package arriving in the 
 UK on Sep 20th.  The Royalmail/Parcelforce people keep pointing fingers 
 at each other saying that the other guy is handling it.  And their 
 website doesnt even know that the package exists.
 
 Should I refund this guy $500 or the full amount he paid for it?  I 
 mean, he responded $500 when I asked him how much insurance he wanted on 
 it.  But the problem is that I'm the one that has to collect the 
 insurance and send it to him.
 
 He has been patient enough to wait for the recommended amount of time 
 before making a complaint (4 weeks).  But I'm left wondering whether the 
 UK customs/mail system is just slow and we should give it more time.
 
 What do you guys think?
 
 Thanks,
 
 rg
 
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Re: AF500FTZ flash

2006-10-10 Thread pnstenquist
Well, it works. That's all that matters to me. The 550 Pentax wasn't available 
when I bought it. The other Pentax flash is much less powerful than the Sigma 
500.
 -- Original message --
From: Adam Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Paul,
 
 The fact it needed to be upgraded to work with a new camera using the 
 exact same protocol says all it needs to about the Sigma. It's not in 
 spec for P-TTL (If it was, you wouldn't need to get it upgraded).
 
 -Adam
 
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  The Sigma 500DG Super works very well. I've used one with my D. I just sent 
  it 
 in to have it upgraded for use with teh K10D. it was returned in just over a 
 week. Great service. Units bought new will now give P-TTL with all the Pentax 
 digital SLRs. They also are capable of trailing curtain shutter, wireless and 
 high-speed synch. I regularly use one for shooting birds at 1/1000th shutter 
 speed.
  Paul
   -- Original message --
  From: Adam Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
 Pentax. AF360FTZ or 540FTZ.
 
 -Adam
 
 
 Tom Lesser wrote:
 
 Any recommendations of specific brands/models of P-TTL flashes?
 
 Thanks
 Tom Lesser
 
 On Oct 10, 2006, at 4:07 AM, Sylwester Pietrzyk wrote:
 
 
 On 10.10.2006, at 09:20 , Patrick Genovese wrote:
 
 
 Any ideas on how an AF500FTZ is expected to work with the K10D ?
 
 Only in manual mode as K10D doesn't support plain TTL. It's time to
 upgrade flash to P-TTL capable one...
 
 
 
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RE: Well, that's it, I cracked.

2006-10-10 Thread gfen
On Tue, 10 Oct 2006, J. C. O'Connell wrote:
 The pankcake 40mm F2.8 M lens is just another example
 Of a lens where there is NO NEW EQUIV.
 These lenses should be fully supported as you cant
 Even buy a new one like it if you wanted to.

What do you mean, he just told you what they are, see below:

 On Sat, 7 Oct 2006, Adam Maas wrote:
  DA Limiteds are already here. 21 f3.2 Pancake, 40 f2.8 Pancake and the
  70 f2.4 Pancake due any moment. The 40 is quite cheap ($300CDN), the 
  other two are more money, but  still a lot cheaper than FA limiteds.

Sounds like there's a new equivlent and furthermore, an expansion of the 
pancake line...


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Re: The JCO survey

2006-10-10 Thread John Forbes
Without the aperture simulator, they might lose half a dozen body sales.   
With it, they might lose thousands of lens sales.

It's a no brainer, except, it seems, for the truly brainless.

John

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 16:14:00 +0100, J. C. O'Connell [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
wrote:

 Couple hundred dollars for cam sensor? that's absurd
 if anti shake is only $100 retail. $25.00-35.00 retail
 is probably a more accurate figure. Cheap! That is one
 of the reasons I am so pissed off about it, a key feature
 is missing for virtually NO savings in the final cost
 of the body. That's dumb.
 jco

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
 William Robb
 Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 10:08 AM
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
 Subject: Re: The JCO survey


 - Original Message -
 From: P. J. Alling
 Subject: Re: The JCO survey




 They don't know how many more sales they'll get with an aperture
 simulator included, part of the reason they're getting these
 pre-orders
 it the touted backward compatibility.  If were better wouldn't it be
 logical to expect better sales to old farts like us?  I'm certain that
 they'd have one more if it had one. In fact I think there'd be a lot
 more.  There may even be pre-orders by old users who don't know the
 limitations caused by lack of an aperture simulator, it's so seldom
 mentioned in the reviews.  Those people will be disappointed and won't
 help create positive buzz about the next camera release.  We get a
 number of questions on this list about that regularly.  How many of
 them
 decided to stay with Pentax or move on.   We don't know, and neither
 does Pentax.

 The success of these, and earlier Pentax DSLR's, indicates that the
 lack of the aperture simulator isn't costing them sufficient sales to
 be concerned about.


 Which may not last.  They still need all the sales they can get, and
 every useful feature helps.

 They need every sale thay can get, and the market is very price
 sensitive.
 Add a couple of hundred dollars to the price of a camera, and someone
 else will come along and scoop that camera's potential customers with a
 lower priced unit, and the product becomes a money loser.
 Or, they have to sell the unit at a price which does not allow them
 sufficient profit to make up for the extra feature (in this case, an
 aperture simulator), and the product becomes a money loser.
 It's purely a money thing.
 I'm surprised you don't understand that.

 William Robb






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RE: Mini PDML LONDON

2006-10-10 Thread Rob Brigham
Looks like I may be able to join you guys - not been to Camden for a
looong time either.

Are these details still valid?

Cheers

Rob


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Cotty
Sent: 03 October 2006 23:30
To: pentax list
Subject: Re: Mini PDML LONDON


Just a heads up - Mini PDML get together in London (UK) on Sunday
October 15th.

Time: 2 - 2.15pm
Location: Outside Camden Town Tube Station
Beacon: Cotty - 6'5 with blue cap on
Occasion: Godfrey's UK Tour
Highlights: Camden Market, locks and canal, hustle and bustle

Names here please

1. Godders
2. Cotty + 1
3. Bob W
4. Skye + 1
5. Richard (Godders' Pentaxian friend)
6. Mystery Pentax UK rep with goodies!



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Re: Well, that's it, I cracked.

2006-10-10 Thread Adam Maas
Well, except for the 40mm f2.8 DA Limited Pancake, you know? Essentially 
the exact same lens in AF form?

-Adam


J. C. O'Connell wrote:
 The pankcake 40mm F2.8 M lens is just another example
 Of a lens where there is NO NEW EQUIV.
 These lenses should be fully supported as you cant
 Even buy a new one like it if you wanted to.
 joc
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
 gfen
 Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 10:02 AM
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
 Subject: Re: Well, that's it, I cracked.
 
 On Sat, 7 Oct 2006, Adam Maas wrote:
 
DA Limiteds are already here. 21 f3.2 Pancake, 40 f2.8 Pancake and the
 
 
70 f2.4 Pancake due any moment. The 40 is quite cheap ($300CDN), the 
other two are more money, but  still a lot cheaper than FA limiteds.
 
 
 The downside is I don't want pancake lenses, I want larger units with 
 some holding space on 'em. And I want that 21mm faster than 3.2. I'd
 trade 
 off the pancake ability for another 1.5 or 2 stops of speed at the
 same 
 price point, but what do I know? I mostly make this up as I go along...
 
 As for a 70/2.4? Eh, whatever. An FA50/1.4 will probably be under cost
 and 
 1.33 stops faster. Again, maybe the little pancake thing appeals to 
 someone, somewhere, but it ain't me. 
 
 Its the right direction, but not what I'm looking for exactly (then
 again, 
 what I'm mostly looking for is something to complain about). 
 
 
 



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RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

2006-10-10 Thread Bill Owens
Who is we?  If you're talking about the members of this list you are
surely wrong.  There are what, about 20-30 regular posters here on the list?
If even half of them were to agree with you, Pentax would not even remotely
consider what you're whining about.

Bill

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of J.
C. O'Connell
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 11:16 AM
To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
Subject: RE: k10d and manual-aperture lenses?

I don't understand why you all assume its not going
To happen. That is an unknown and if enough users
Give Pentax feedback they might actually make products
With features we really want and are willing to pay for.
jco
=


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Re: Ebay frustration

2006-10-10 Thread Gonz
Yes, see my other post.  Ebay woes

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Is there something about the postal system in the US that makes it 
 particularly difficult to post things overseas?  I ask because I am 
 searching for Pentax medium format systems and most of the ones I find 
 listed on Ebay in the US will only ship to the US.  It is extremely 
 frustrating.  Is it laziness on the part of the lister?  Does the rest of 
 the world not exist?  Is there some kind of difficulty involved?
 
 James 
 
 

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Re: ebay woes

2006-10-10 Thread Bob Sullivan
Gonz,

I've no practical experience, but would give it a few more weeks,
maybe a month.  I've had a $25 photo item from Germany hit US customs.
 That alone was good for another 2 weeks before they asked me for
duties and I explained why it was duty free.  I can't imagine a
package insured for $500 just passing thru customs un-taxed.

As to $500 or $650, I'm probably in the minority but think the seller
is responsible for providing insurance in the full amount.

I've only lost 1 UK ebay transaction so far.  I sent $8 by mail and
never got the products back here (USA).  I don't know if the US cash
never made it thru the mail or the busy seller simply lost track of
the auction.  He was insulted when I asked several months later if he
was re-selling the same items in a current ebay listing.  It was only
$8...

Regards,  Bob S.

On 10/10/06, Gonz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Sold my *istD to a fellow in the UK.  He has good ebay history and has
 purchased comparable cameras via international sellers in the past.  He
 sent me the money via paypal, I used it to by the K100D as a backup to
 the upcoming K10D.

 Its now been 4 weeks and the package has yet to arrive and he is asking
 for a refund.  When I sent it, I asked him how much insurance he wanted
 to put on it and he said $500, since it was his nickle that was being
 used to buy the insurance.  Unfortunately this does not cover the $650
 he paid for it including the grip.

 I dont understand how the UK Royalmail/Parcelforce can be so incompetent
 it seems.  The US post office website shows the package arriving in the
 UK on Sep 20th.  The Royalmail/Parcelforce people keep pointing fingers
 at each other saying that the other guy is handling it.  And their
 website doesnt even know that the package exists.

 Should I refund this guy $500 or the full amount he paid for it?  I
 mean, he responded $500 when I asked him how much insurance he wanted on
 it.  But the problem is that I'm the one that has to collect the
 insurance and send it to him.

 He has been patient enough to wait for the recommended amount of time
 before making a complaint (4 weeks).  But I'm left wondering whether the
 UK customs/mail system is just slow and we should give it more time.

 What do you guys think?

 Thanks,

 rg

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RE: ebay woes

2006-10-10 Thread Shel Belinkoff
I'd suggest that you tell him you'll reimburse him the $500.00 once you've
collected it from the USPS.  If the USPS says that they delivered the
parcel to the UK - and there seems to be proof of that - and that it's out
of their hands, then it would seem that it's out of your hands as well, and
that they buyer is SOL.

This is one of the problems that people face when shipping internationally.
Where does your responsibility end, where does the responsibility of the
USPS end?

I've shipped a number of items to Israel, and often packages have been held
up in customs for quite a while for one reason or another.  Has your buyer
initiated any search or claim on his/her end?  That would certainly seem
reasonable.  With all this terrorist business it's quote possible the
package is stuck in customs.

BTW, what exactly does the insurance you bought cover?  Damage/breakage? 
Loss in transit?

Shel



 [Original Message]
 From: Gonz 

 Sold my *istD to a fellow in the UK.  

 Its now been 4 weeks and the package has yet to arrive and he is asking 
 for a refund.  When I sent it, I asked him how much insurance he wanted 
 to put on it and he said $500, since it was his nickle that was being 
 used to buy the insurance.  Unfortunately this does not cover the $650 
 he paid for it including the grip.

 I dont understand how the UK Royalmail/Parcelforce can be so incompetent 
 it seems.  The US post office website shows the package arriving in the 
 UK on Sep 20th.  The Royalmail/Parcelforce people keep pointing fingers 
 at each other saying that the other guy is handling it.  And their 
 website doesnt even know that the package exists.

 Should I refund this guy $500 or the full amount he paid for it?  I 
 mean, he responded $500 when I asked him how much insurance he wanted on 
 it.  But the problem is that I'm the one that has to collect the 
 insurance and send it to him.

 He has been patient enough to wait for the recommended amount of time 
 before making a complaint (4 weeks).  But I'm left wondering whether the 
 UK customs/mail system is just slow and we should give it more time.



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Re: PESO - Another Cormorant

2006-10-10 Thread frank theriault
On 10/5/06, graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Yes, that is the kind of things my lawyers have said. Translation: only
 rich people can get good legal aid.

In Ontario (Canada), it's the middle class that is denied legal
services.  The rich can afford to pay themselves, the poor (who meet
the means test - which really should be called a lack of means
test shouldn't it?) are covered by legal aid, while the middle class
can't afford a lawyer and the state won't pay for one for them.

cheers,
frank
-- 
Sharpness is a bourgeois concept.  -Henri Cartier-Bresson

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Re: K100D Anti-shake

2006-10-10 Thread Adam Maas
I'm talking actual experience, not testing. Conditions in the field 
determine practical use, not repeatable testing (which I could care less 
about).

And I mostly shoot with K/M or earlier glass, so I have no reason to 
knock it. Works great on the K100D other than the admittedly odd results 
with SR. The one newer lens that sees regular use is my 70-210 SMC-A.

-Adam


J. C. O'Connell wrote:
 Testing error? Seem anti shake should be based 
 On camera movement, not aperure. F stop has nothing
 To do with image stabilization corrections, if it
 Does in the camera that would be a mistake. Sure your
 Not just trying to knock the K/M for no reason. 
 It also seems like something not easy to test scientifically
 Because you would need repeatable shake and same
 Focal lengths and optical qualities of the lenses to 
 Be sure.
 jco
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
 Adam Maas
 Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 10:55 AM
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
 Subject: Re: K100D Anti-shake
 
 J. C. O'Connell wrote:
 
Someone commented the Anti shake in the K100d works
Better with A than with KM lenses. W H Y ?
I do not understand how that could be true as the
Camera shouldn't be handling them differently.
Curious.
JCO

 
 
 I'm baffled as well, unless it takes absolute aperture into account 
 somehow. But I'm getting 1.5-2 stops from K/M glass and 2-3 stops from A
 
 and F glass on my K100D.
 
 -Adam
 
 
 



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RE: AF500FTZ flash

2006-10-10 Thread Walter Hamler
Paul, I have the cheaper version that I bought about 6 months ago, just 
before the K100 came out. Any idea if it would need mods as well, as I have 
a K10D on order?

Walt 


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Re: OT - Go Tigers!

2006-10-10 Thread frank theriault
On 10/10/06, Russell Kerstetter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I don't start paying attention to baseball usually unitl the playoffs
 are over (I'm not a huge sports type...), but I love it when the
 underdogs come out on top.  So congrats to all you Motor-city types!


It's been a long time coming, eh?

I guess I'll be pulling for the Tigers from here on in.

cheers,
frank


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Re: 35mm equivalent focal length on P6x7

2006-10-10 Thread Bob Sullivan
It is a nice portrait length on the 67... Bob S.

On 10/10/06, Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Bob Sullivan wrote:

 I like the 165/2.8 but it is really a short telephoto.
 Try the 75/4.5 lens for a 37.5mm equivalent wide in 35mm.

 If I can ever find a 67-645 adapter the 165/2.8 is one of the lenses
 I'd like to try out on my 645. I think it would be a nice portrait
 length.


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Re: The JCO survey

2006-10-10 Thread Adam Maas
Honestly, I don't think I'd consider a K1D without an aperture 
simulator. I'm not paying $2000CDN+ (I expect a K1D will come in 
somewhere between the Nikon D200 and D2X in price) for a body that lacks 
full compatibility with K mount glass (same reason I would never have 
bought a Nikon D100 at its launch cost, and would never have bought the 
*istD at its original cost).

A sub-$1000 body is a different matter, at least with DSLR's. Corners 
will get cut and the green button button hack is an acceptable corner to 
cut for me, even though I use K/M glass heavily.

-Adam


Lon Williamson wrote:
 I'm not sure that protecting new lens sales by prohibiting open 
 aperature metering
 for K and P lenses makes sense.  Most people I know with AF cameras WANT
 AF lenses, and some, like my ex wife, can no longer reliably perform 
 manual focus
 (eye problems).  But IF the K1D is produced and IF it is a flagship, my 
 suspicion
 is that Pentax will sell more bodies with true K/M lens compatibility 
 without impacting
 modern AF lens sales.  If anything, I suspect they'll sell more modern 
 lenses, especially
 super wide angle..
 
 BTW, I'm collecting names of all who have responded to the survey, 
 whether Aye,
 Don't Give A Fig, or Nay.  I'm hoping to email and snail mail Pentax USA 
 and Pentax
 Japan results.
 
 Be prepared for a Survey Part Deaux
 
 Love you bunch of K-mount fools.  -Lon
 



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PESO: Serious things

2006-10-10 Thread Patrice LACOUTURE
http://www.lacouture.nom.fr/gallery/v/PESO/2006-06-18+Seillons+-+34-web.jpg.html

http://tinyurl.com/pdbb3

The book's title would translate to something like Funnytronic
discoveries book.

Best Regards

Patrice

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RE: GESO: Speaking of Ducks (Gang Rape)

2006-10-10 Thread Tim Øsleby
Politically correct, me? You must be kidding ;-)

As I've said. Language fails me in this issue. 
I'm not able to express what I really mean. I'm able to express what I don't
mean, that's something ;-) Could be a cultural thing, I dunno. At least my
beloved understands me :-)


Tim
Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Christian
Sent: 10. oktober 2006 02:02
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: GESO: Speaking of Ducks (Gang Rape)

Tim, the title is Gang Rape.  Rape is the act of forced sex on a 
victim.  The only way to describe what male mallards do to females 
during breeding season is gang rape.  Trust me, I've watched it over and 
over again, the females are not a willing participant.   When a group of 
young males goes after a female the females try very, very hard to get 
away.  What else would you call it?  Biologists call it rape.

Really, Jens was not trying to glorify rape in any way.  He gave the 
picture a fitting, descriptive title.

You need to let go of your political correctness :-)

-- 

Christian
http://photography.skofteland.net

Tim Øsleby wrote:
 It is obvious that I'm not able to communicate my point in English. 
 I hereby rest my case :-(
 
 
 Tim
 Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian)
  
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Adam
 Maas
 Sent: 10. oktober 2006 01:12
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
 Subject: Re: GESO: Speaking of Ducks (Gang Rape)
 
 Tim,
 
 Because the title is the only way to accurately describe the situation. 
 Natural selection is often rather nasty (If you think this is bad, go 
 read about Orca breeding patterns. They're nasty, and with beings far 
 closer to sentience than a Mallard).
 
 -Adam
 
 
 Tim Øsleby wrote:
 
I have no problem with the pictures or the photographed phenomena itself.
It's simply nature, nothing wrong about nature. It's the title I have
trouble with. 
Nature is ugly, yes. But it's not filthy. The title turns the natural
selection into something filthy IMO. 

From a feministic point of view this submission normalises gang rape. I
don't think that's Jens intention. 

I'd better stop now. This makes me look like a softie ;-)


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Re: ebay woes

2006-10-10 Thread Gonz


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I'd suggest that you tell him you'll reimburse him the $500.00 once you've
 collected it from the USPS.  If the USPS says that they delivered the
 parcel to the UK - and there seems to be proof of that - and that it's out
 of their hands, then it would seem that it's out of your hands as well, and
 that they buyer is SOL.
 
Thats my thinking as well. Its probably going to buy me a negative on ebay.

 This is one of the problems that people face when shipping internationally.
 Where does your responsibility end, where does the responsibility of the
 USPS end?
 
I hope the USPS doesnt give me the runaround saying that they fulfilled 
their duty and I cannot claim insurance.

 I've shipped a number of items to Israel, and often packages have been held
 up in customs for quite a while for one reason or another.  Has your buyer
 initiated any search or claim on his/her end?  That would certainly seem
 reasonable.  With all this terrorist business it's quote possible the
 package is stuck in customs.
 

He has been asking ParcelForce/Royal Mail constantly what is going on 
and they keep pointing fingers at each other.

 BTW, what exactly does the insurance you bought cover?  Damage/breakage? 
 Loss in transit?

Supposedly all of the above.

 
 Shel
 
 
 
 
[Original Message]
From: Gonz 
 
 
Sold my *istD to a fellow in the UK.  
 
 
Its now been 4 weeks and the package has yet to arrive and he is asking 
for a refund.  When I sent it, I asked him how much insurance he wanted 
to put on it and he said $500, since it was his nickle that was being 
used to buy the insurance.  Unfortunately this does not cover the $650 
he paid for it including the grip.

I dont understand how the UK Royalmail/Parcelforce can be so incompetent 
it seems.  The US post office website shows the package arriving in the 
UK on Sep 20th.  The Royalmail/Parcelforce people keep pointing fingers 
at each other saying that the other guy is handling it.  And their 
website doesnt even know that the package exists.

Should I refund this guy $500 or the full amount he paid for it?  I 
mean, he responded $500 when I asked him how much insurance he wanted on 
it.  But the problem is that I'm the one that has to collect the 
insurance and send it to him.

He has been patient enough to wait for the recommended amount of time 
before making a complaint (4 weeks).  But I'm left wondering whether the 
UK customs/mail system is just slow and we should give it more time.
 
 
 
 

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Re: PESO: Harvest Moon

2006-10-10 Thread Jack Davis
I'll force myself to critique it if you'll provide the URL. 
I stiff drink might, also, help. ;-)))

Jack

--- William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 - Original Message - 
 From: Jack Davis
 Subject: Re: PESO: Harvest Moon
 
 
  You're not the only one, Bill!
  Speaking of poo, you critiqued the background of one of my shot as 
  crap
  and you'll be thrilled to learn that, while I didn't say do at the
  time, you were right.
  You'll probably never be considerate enough to post a shot that
 will
  allow me to retaliate. =)
 
 I posted an entire gallery a couple of weeks ago.
 Go fishing
 
 William Robb 
 
 
 
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__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

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RE: Well, that's it, I cracked.

2006-10-10 Thread Kostas Kavoussanakis
On Tue, 10 Oct 2006, J. C. O'Connell wrote:

 The pankcake 40mm F2.8 M lens is just another example
 Of a lens where there is NO NEW EQUIV.

JC, what are you on about? You are losing even the slightest bit of 
credibility and leverage with uninformed statements like that.

If you are genuinely interested, brush up. While doing that, (I will 
pass on the opportunity to rhyme) don't write nonsense like the above.

Please.

Pentax has openly admitted that lenses has been their weakness and 
they are working on it. I don't like the pancakes, but that's my 
problem. Look up the options.

Kostas

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Re: ebay woes

2006-10-10 Thread Tom C
I bought Wendy's *ist DS for my wife.  It took a full 25 days to reach me.  
This was using CandaPost expedited mail (whatever that means)... and we are 
on the same continent.

We both thought it was lost or stolen and Wendy sent me a refund check which 
arrived several days after the camera did, and which I subsequently tore to 
smithereens.

I've also had equipment shipped from a private seller in New York take two 
weeks to reach me when it was guaranteed for 3 days.

I agree $500.  That was the amount he wished to insure it for.


Tom C.


Original Message Follows
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
Subject: Re: ebay woes
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:50:17 +

$500 if you can collect it from the insurance people. Good luck.
  -- Original message --
From: Gonz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sold my *istD to a fellow in the UK.  He has good ebay history and has
  purchased comparable cameras via international sellers in the past.  He
  sent me the money via paypal, I used it to by the K100D as a backup to
  the upcoming K10D.
 
  Its now been 4 weeks and the package has yet to arrive and he is asking
  for a refund.  When I sent it, I asked him how much insurance he wanted
  to put on it and he said $500, since it was his nickle that was being
  used to buy the insurance.  Unfortunately this does not cover the $650
  he paid for it including the grip.
 
  I dont understand how the UK Royalmail/Parcelforce can be so incompetent
  it seems.  The US post office website shows the package arriving in the
  UK on Sep 20th.  The Royalmail/Parcelforce people keep pointing fingers
  at each other saying that the other guy is handling it.  And their
  website doesnt even know that the package exists.
 
  Should I refund this guy $500 or the full amount he paid for it?  I
  mean, he responded $500 when I asked him how much insurance he wanted on
  it.  But the problem is that I'm the one that has to collect the
  insurance and send it to him.
 
  He has been patient enough to wait for the recommended amount of time
  before making a complaint (4 weeks).  But I'm left wondering whether the
  UK customs/mail system is just slow and we should give it more time.
 
  What do you guys think?
 
  Thanks,
 
  rg
 
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Re: PESO: Truth

2006-10-10 Thread Patrice LACOUTURE
A very striking image, well put in perspective by the title...

Patrice

2006/10/10, Ralf R. Radermacher [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Truth is always the first victim of war.

 For Anna Politkovskaja:

 http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/mypics/770012/display/6884088

 http://www.rsf.org

 --
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 private homepage: http://www.fotoralf.de
 manual cameras and photo galleries - updated Jan. 10, 2005
 Contarex - Kiev 60 - Horizon 202 - P6 mount lenses

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Re: GESO: Speaking of Ducks (Gang Rape)

2006-10-10 Thread frank theriault
On 10/9/06, Tim Øsleby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 The pictures are ok.
 But Jens, I dislike the title. Is it a joke? I can assure you, there is
 nothing funny about a gang rape.

 If it isn't a joke. Why turn natural selection into something ugly?

I agree, Tim.

cheers,
frank
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Re: Good weekend for Dave. Bad weekend for Pentax

2006-10-10 Thread frank theriault
On 10/10/06, Dave Brooks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi gang.

 I'm back from one of the best weekends i'v had in a long time, for 
 relaxation, not for photogaraphy wise.

 Clear blue skies, AM temps -2 or 3 and day time +18-20 or there abouts.
 Missed out on the better fall colours by about a week. They peaked last 
 weekend, but a big rain/wind storm in the middle of the week blew most of 
 them off. Still managed to get some more isoloated areas, so i;m happy. Shot 
 3 rolls of BW, one from the 6x7. I tend to shoot more BW in the fall and 
 winter.

 It was one of those, have a walk, sit and soak in the sun, have dinner 
 weekends.:-)

 Now, the bad part. While sitting with two others on a floating dock, shooting 
 pictures
 of my buddies chocolate lab playing in the water, the balance shifted on the 
 dock and i went for a tumble. Leg of the chair broke off and instinct made my 
 arm go out for support.
 Only problem was in my hand was my istD and my daughters FA 70-200. The lens 
 took the direct hit on the gangplank and bent the zoom barrel, but not the 
 outer barrel, the inner one.
 Glass looks ok, but i'm no expert so not sure of the damage extent. I know it 
 will not foucus and zoom is very stiff.

 Question.   Is it worth sending for repair or just look for another on eek 
 bay etc.
 I know they do not go for great sums of $$ anymore.

 Also had the DA 16-45 fall out of my hand while putting it on my istD for 
 supper shots. It didi not fall to far, onto some styrofoam boards(about 
 2')but it seems ok.

 Thats the second time for both the 16-45 and camera to have a fall. Just 
 wondering if i should have the camera and 16-45 inspected, or not.

 Anyway, lots of pictures to sort through tonight.

 Dave

The real question is:  Was there any beer involved on the dock?  LOL

Seriously, glad you had a (mostly) good weekend, sorry to hear of your
equipment woes.  Hopefully your fixes will be minimal and cheap.

cheers,
frank


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AF500FTZ flash

2006-10-10 Thread Joseph Tainter
The Sigma 500DG Super works very well.

-

A consideration (for me) is that the Sigma flash's angle of view starts 
at 18 mm. Both of the Pentax flashes will cover 16 mm--as in DA 16-45 or 
DA 16-50.

The rtf on the *ist D also covered 16 mm. The rtf on the K10D will cover 
only 18 mm. Another gripe.

Joe

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Re: Way OT

2006-10-10 Thread Norman Baugher
Was it this concert, as reported in The Onion?
September 6, 2006 
Rolling Stones Kick Off 'Sing Our Songs For Us' Tour 
Norm
- Original Message - 
From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Pentax Discuss PDML@pdml.net
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 10:25 AM
Subject: Way OT


 For those of you in the big cities, this is probably a small thing, but 
 Regina managed to persuade the Rolling Stones to play two shows here, 
 one on Friday, the other last night.
 I went to last nights show.
 Heck of a good concert.
 No, I didn't try to smuggle a camera in.
 
 William Robb 
 
 
 
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Re: GESO: Speaking of Ducks (Gang Rape)

2006-10-10 Thread frank theriault
On 10/9/06, Adam Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Tim,

 Because the title is the only way to accurately describe the situation.
 Natural selection is often rather nasty (If you think this is bad, go
 read about Orca breeding patterns. They're nasty, and with beings far
 closer to sentience than a Mallard).


Adam,

With the greatest of respect, I must disagree.

Rape is forced sexual intercourse.  It implies a non-consentual act.

Ducks don't have the capacity to agree or disagree with these things -
it's pure animal instinct, not reasoned consent or lack thereof - and
I mean that from both the male and female perspective.  The male ducks
can't be said to understand when a female says no, any more than a
female can be said to consent to the sexual act.

Whatever is happening among those ducks, brutish and ugly as it might
be, to call it rape is to demean the experience of victims of sexual
assault everywhere.

cheers,
frank

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Re: PESO: Truth

2006-10-10 Thread Ralf R. Radermacher
frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Are those the gates to a concentration camp?  A wartime cemetary?  An
 old battlefield?
 
 I'm just wondering about your reference to war.

No. This is the gate to an ordinary Belgian farm on a foggy winter
morning. 

I just hoped it would be an appropriate image to convey my sadness about
the murder of Anna Politovskaja, the woman who stood up against censure
and intimidation to report the truth about Boris Yeltsin's terrible war
in Chechnia.

And while her case has achieved international attention and press
coverage, 55 other journalists have been murdered around the world, this
year alone and in most cases widely unnoticed.

Ralf

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manual cameras and photo galleries - updated Jan. 10, 2005
Contarex - Kiev 60 - Horizon 202 - P6 mount lenses

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Re: GESO: Speaking of Ducks (Gang Rape)

2006-10-10 Thread Ann Sanfedele
Jens Bladt wrote:
 
 Christian wrote:
 ... females try very, very hard to get way.
 
 Yes, indeed. At one point she tried so hard to get away, that the cars on
 the road had to stop to avoid running her over.
 
 Right after the incident my girl friend, who was there too, said (guessing
 the thoughts of the mallard): Kill me, please kill me!
 
 Nature is not always pretty. The law of the jungle is cruel.
 
 Regards
 Jens Bladt
 http://www.jensbladt.dk
 +45 56 63 77 11
 +45 23 43 85 77
 Skype: jensbladt248
 
Just as an fyi - the actual USA street slang for what you
describe is gang bang - pretty
ugly, and no different in actuality, but it's what the human
perps would call what they are doing
or did. I'm not sure how long the term has been around but I
knew it as a teen in the 1950's

ann

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Re: PESO: Truth

2006-10-10 Thread frank theriault
On 10/10/06, Ralf R. Radermacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 No. This is the gate to an ordinary Belgian farm on a foggy winter
 morning.

 I just hoped it would be an appropriate image to convey my sadness about
 the murder of Anna Politovskaja, the woman who stood up against censure
 and intimidation to report the truth about Boris Yeltsin's terrible war
 in Chechnia.

 And while her case has achieved international attention and press
 coverage, 55 other journalists have been murdered around the world, this
 year alone and in most cases widely unnoticed.


Thanks for your explanation, Ralf.  I wasn't aware of the lady to
which you refer.

Great photo!

cheers,
frank
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Re: GESO: Speaking of Ducks (Gang Rape)

2006-10-10 Thread Shel Belinkoff
I avoided the photo for a number of reasons, but reading some of the
messages associated with the pics got me curious.

I agree that including the phrase gang rape is somewhat ugly.  Rape is a
form of violence and abuse, and there's nothing funny about it at all. 
What various animals do in their mating routines - such as in this
situation - should probably not be anthropomorphized to reflect human terms
and values (I hope this is being stated clearly).  What we see in these
photos is nothing more than a mating routine that has developed over the
centuries because it works for the ducks.  It is far from rape as we humans
use the term - these creatures just do what comes naturally and was has
been bred into them.  

Maybe Jens has a problem with the English language, maybe he thought the
caption was funny, or maybe he's just a jerk ... probably one or both of
the first two.

Shel



 [Original Message]
 From: frank theriault 

 On 10/9/06, Tim Øsleby  wrote:

  The pictures are ok.
  But Jens, I dislike the title. Is it a joke? I can assure you, there is
  nothing funny about a gang rape.
 
  If it isn't a joke. Why turn natural selection into something ugly?

 I agree, Tim.



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Re: ebay woes

2006-10-10 Thread Joseph Tainter
I hope the USPS doesnt give me the runaround saying that they fulfilled
their duty and I cannot claim insurance.

-

No, you bought the insurance from USPS, and it is their obligation to 
pay the claim. Then they will work it out with the UK folks.

Joe

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Re: AF500FTZ flash

2006-10-10 Thread Patrick Genovese
Hi

Has anyone successfully used an ordinary Auto Flash with the *ist
series / k100 bodies ?

One thing I really hate about these new fangled flash systems is the
preflash... it makes most people blink or move because they think the
photo has been taken.

Rgds

Patrick

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AF500FTZ flash

2006-10-10 Thread Joseph Tainter
Paul,

The fact it needed to be upgraded to work with a new camera using the
exact same protocol says all it needs to about the Sigma. It's not in
spec for P-TTL (If it was, you wouldn't need to get it upgraded).

-Adam

-

This I find puzzling. Why does it need to be upgraded? Promaster has 
an interesting macro flash, with modules for Pentax DSLRs (so it is 
claimed). But the module for the *ist D is different from the module for 
the DS and DL. Why? Makes me hesitate to buy one. Will I need yet 
another module for the K10D? And the camera after that?

Joe

P.S. Given how the word upgrade is used these days, it should always 
be in quotation marks. The original meaning has been corrupted.

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Re: AF500FTZ flash

2006-10-10 Thread pnstenquist
I never use the Sigma without a diffuser of some sort, so the wide angle issue 
isn't an issue for me. Is the angle of view in 35mm terms or APS-C? I'l have to 
look at the Sigma docs. In truth AOV shouldn't be stated in terms of lens focal 
length. 
Paul
 -- Original message --
From: Joseph Tainter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 The Sigma 500DG Super works very well.
 
 -
 
 A consideration (for me) is that the Sigma flash's angle of view starts 
 at 18 mm. Both of the Pentax flashes will cover 16 mm--as in DA 16-45 or 
 DA 16-50.
 
 The rtf on the *ist D also covered 16 mm. The rtf on the K10D will cover 
 only 18 mm. Another gripe.
 
 Joe
 
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Re: Well, that's it, I cracked.

2006-10-10 Thread Doug Miles
Exactly right; I agree completely on the pancake issue. OTOH, when all the
usual lens controls are handled on the body, then I suppose it makes sense
to minimize the lens itself. Too bad these things have sacrificed some
useful speed in the interests of unnecessary compactness. I am very pleased
though with the FA Limiteds... :)

Mi Doug

On 10/10/06 07:01, gfen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The downside is I don't want pancake lenses, I want larger units with
 some holding space on 'em. And I want that 21mm faster than 3.2. I'd trade
 off the pancake ability for another 1.5 or 2 stops of speed at the same
 price point, but what do I know?


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