Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
Sorry to ask... but what does the 1/250th of a second with the speed at wich the shutter curtains open and close? I always understood the curtains moved at the same speed, and the actual exposure time was controlled by the difference in the their release - from a very short difference to a few seconds, where the x-sync was first the moment the entire film was exposed. Moving the max speed and x-sync upwards required faster shutter blades, but there was always the need for exposing the entire film to a conventional x-sync, and the exposure still is dosed by the difference in the release of the shutter blades, not their speed of travel, AFAIK. LF Adam Maas escreveu: Well, since you asked, shutter blade velocity is 6m/s at 1/250th. That works out to about 13.5mph ;-) -Adam On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 4:26 PM, Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com wrote: I was waiting for someone to argue my 10,000 mph was incorrect for for focal plane shutter velocity. It probably is. -- Luiz Felipe luiz.felipe at techmit.com.br http://techmit.com.br/luizfelipe/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
Living in a very sunny place, the higher speed x-sync would be welcome, but I still would buy the camera someday. For me, 1/8000 is more useful than 1/250 sync. Getting to sync at 1/180 is ok, considering I'm syncing between 1/60 and 1/100 lately. For my current needs that camera would be rather useful, the price being one drawback since I don't really need HD video and my next project should be very hard on the gear. Not needing some fancy set of features, I believe cheaper may be better right now. I respect your feeling about the K-7, Timber, just don't feel the same. Not a perfect camera, but one of these days I may be looking for one. LF John Francis escreveu: On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 08:51:16PM -0600, William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: Bob Sullivan Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... timber, The rest of us have no idea where you are looking to form your opinions. Maybe you can back them up with something? Pictures, links, ??? Really. To me, it isn't missing anything crucial. A higher sync speed would have been nice, but it isn't a killer for me. Other than that, I kinda have to wait until I can get my hands on one to see if the AF is sufficiently fast for me. For the rest, it looks pretty darned good. William Robb Looks better than pretty darned good to me - unless there are some really strong negative reports from the GFM crowd I'll be buying one. Sure, I'd like the faster sync speed. But the lack of it (and the slower frame rate) didn't tempt me back to using my PZ-1p. Most of the time high-speed sync serves well enough, although when you are using trailing-curtain sync I believe you don't even get 1/180 of a second (the *ist-D dropped back to 1/60; I don't know what later bodies did). The 1/8000 second is very welcome for those of us trying to use fast lenses in California sun; I don't have ND filters for all my f/2.8 lenses (or for the 250-600), and sometimes the minimal depth of field of a fast lens is what you want. In any case, changing shutter speed is a lot more convenient than playing with filters. The K10D (1/4000 top speed; ISO 100) is OK most of the time; the *ist-D (minimum ISO 200) was marginal. The frame rate is quite a big deal for me, too. I really liked the responsiveness of the PZ-1p (4+fps), even though I mostly used it in single-frame mode; the faster frame rate results in a shorter viewfinder blackout time, and the camera is ready for another shot sooner; I occasionally find myself trying to take the next shot before the (3fps) K10D is ready. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Luiz Felipe luiz.felipe at techmit.com.br http://techmit.com.br/luizfelipe/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
Luiz, You are correct as to how the shutter curtains work, in hindsight my math is in fact off here and should be ignored. Shutter blade speed is higher than what I computed. -Adam On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 10:12 AM, Luiz Felipe luiz.fel...@techmit.com.br wrote: Sorry to ask... but what does the 1/250th of a second with the speed at wich the shutter curtains open and close? I always understood the curtains moved at the same speed, and the actual exposure time was controlled by the difference in the their release - from a very short difference to a few seconds, where the x-sync was first the moment the entire film was exposed. Moving the max speed and x-sync upwards required faster shutter blades, but there was always the need for exposing the entire film to a conventional x-sync, and the exposure still is dosed by the difference in the release of the shutter blades, not their speed of travel, AFAIK. LF Adam Maas escreveu: Well, since you asked, shutter blade velocity is 6m/s at 1/250th. That works out to about 13.5mph ;-) -Adam On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 4:26 PM, Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com wrote: I was waiting for someone to argue my 10,000 mph was incorrect for for focal plane shutter velocity. It probably is. -- Luiz Felipe luiz.felipe at techmit.com.br http://techmit.com.br/luizfelipe/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
Peter, Don't base your decision on photographs posted on the web, even if they are on the Pentax website. Were those photos taken by a talented photographer or by an engineer who just stepped out in his lunchbreak to test this thingy he had spent 12 months designing the circuitry for? I have ZERO doubt the IQ of the K-7 at low ISOs is going to be top quality (as is the case for every DSLR on the market nowadays). My only questions relate to how the high ISO IQ is going to be and if the AF has really improved. None of these questions can be answered by pictures on the internet. I need to use the camera myself in order to asses AF performance, and take pictures at high ISO in familiar environments (and then process the RAW files myself) in order to tell whether the K-7 is an improvement over my K10D. Let's just wait until we have a final production model in hand to play with, and then we can make an informed decision. Cheers, --M. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- http://enticingthelight.wordpress.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 2009/5/21 Peter Zalabai tim...@clancode.hu: Hi list, Sorry for opening a new K-7 thread... I just tought to share my thoughts with you... So... K-7. When I first saw the pictures it was a beauty for me. The first thing that crossed my mind is I MUST HAVE ONE (yeah with all-caps :D). The K-7 is a very nice and very stylish camera and it brings back the old style when engineers designed machines with ruler and bows. Personally I dislike the now trendy 'everything is rounded' style that rules the designs nowadays (cars, computers, phones etc). But, oh-well, Nikon has quite similar design with D3 and D700, so it's not that unique, yet Pentax made it much more stylish than Nikon (IMHO). Then as the first set of so-called-specifications came the K-7 was still a promising camera. 1/250 Synch and 1/8000 Shutter, Better AF, HD-Video, AF Assist light, etc. All in all the K-7 was the nice big red balloon that everyone wants :) But as time passed by the specifications turned to be false or not-that-nice. 1/250 went back to 1/180, Better AF -like the sensor- is just an Improved (but same) SAFOX VII, HD-Video is only 720 lines and motion JPEG... And now the test shots on the official page... Terrible. First the girl... totally lacks sharpness for me and well the dynamic range of the photo seems to me not that awesome. Then same applies to almost all shots. And in the end the last shot made with the 12-24. Terrible CA. One of the new features is the CA correction and this how they market it? So all in all I am very disappointed with the K-7 as the new flagship model. It's nothing more just the K20D with a class-closing (or how should I call the opposite of class leading? :D) HD video feature and tweaked features. The nice big red balloon seems to be popped out... But don't get me wrong... I still love the K20D and the Pentax Side of Life :) Regards, .timber -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 6:28 PM, Thibouille pentaxl...@gmail.com wrote: I wonder how one can draw such conclusions: * without trying the camera * seing anything else than sample (usually uninteresting whatever the brand) and a picture (of the girl) from internal Jpeg with sharpness set a -2, custom image settings set to portrait (!!) * You didn't test AF and probably you didn't read reports of quite speedier AF specially those with SDM, * Light type sensor for correcting AF (less FF/BF issue e.g. in tungsten light) * You ignore the fact that Mjpeg may mean a whole lot better quality (at the bit rate mentionned by Pentax) that Panasonic GH1 or Canon 5dii, * AF and aperture control in video (5dii where are you?) * That the 'huge' difference between 1/180 and 1/250 is a half stop (wow, huge). Btw, 5Dii is stuck at 1/200, If Kenny boy can do it, we can do it.:-) Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Documenting Life in Rural Ontario. www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ York Region, Ontario, Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
Sorry if I confused you William. I was actually being rather silly, or outrageously goofy by Gulf Islands standards, which is where I am now composting away. Perhaps I should have explained that I am discrete and moderate only when my mouth is taped shut and I'm not near a keyboard...I too await an explanation for VW. - Original Message - From: William Robb war...@gmail.com To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 10:48 PM Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... - Original Message - From: John Poirier Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... Yes, I was going to slip quietly away, but I made the mistake of looking at one last message. That combined with a slow evening and two near-lethal martinis from my darling wife led me astray. Normally I'm the soul of discretion and moderation, and would never venture to intrude on the proceeedings of this august group. (Actually, I realy enjoy the PDMl- have been a lurker since the mid-nineties, but am usually too tied up with other stuff to participate consistently.) jeeze, I hope you didn't take that personally or anything. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
- Original Message - From: John Francis Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... Looks better than pretty darned good to me - unless there are some really strong negative reports from the GFM crowd I'll be buying one. I'm trying very hard to not turn into a fanboy over this camera. It would be too embarassing, and bad for the surly image I try to cultivate. The frame rate is quite a big deal for me, too. I really liked the responsiveness of the PZ-1p (4+fps), even though I mostly used it in single-frame mode; the faster frame rate results in a shorter viewfinder blackout time, and the camera is ready for another shot sooner; I occasionally find myself trying to take the next shot before the (3fps) K10D is ready. This is really the biggie for me. I really like a responsive camera, and higher frame rates seem to go hand in hand with that. I was trying to explain to someone over on forumneurotica that just because I wanted a camera that had 5fps didn't mean that I wanted to use it at that speed. They just presume that one wants it so as to be a tail gunner. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
- Original Message - From: Christine Aguila Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... Well, William, what does the VW stand for? Cheers, Christine Value Reductions Except I talk like Elmer Fudd, so it comes out sounding like Value Weductions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
- Original Message - From: John Poirier Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... I too await an explanation for VW. You'll be sorry. VW -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
Hmmm...I shoot lots of weddings each year, along with lots of paid portraits and family groupings - almost always flash fill. The 1/250 would be nicer, but the 1/180 is not a deal breaker for me. I generally set the flash to handle high speed and then watch my shutter speed - using ISO somewhat to help control things. Not a huge issue, just a small nice to have, in my book. -- Best regards, Bruce Thursday, May 21, 2009, 8:48:32 PM, you wrote: AM John, AM This is a real issue for wedding shooters and anyone doing AM location/outdoor portraiture (or any other sort of mixed AM daylight/flash work, which Paul obviously does). Flash sync does AM matter and Pentax continues to offer the only camera in-class with a AM sub-1/250 sync (the 40D/50D, D300, E-3 and A700 all offer the better AM sync speed). AM -Adam AM On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 11:43 PM, John Poirier peartr...@shaw.ca wrote: This is catastrophic! My retirement plans were entirley based on selling backlit protraits of hummingbirds to microstock agencies!!! I've really had it with Pentax. There are lots of real pro systems that will give you perfect shots of everything at the push of a button, and I'm gonna get me one real soon. Right now I'm kinda busy fixing the light leaks in my Zenit E.. Original Message - From: Paul Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:09 PM Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... You're missing the fact that the amount of flash exposure you can work into a shot is dependent only on the f stop. So if I shoot a backlit portrait outdoors at f5.6, 1.250th, I can fill flash in at that 5.6 value. If I'm forced to stop down to f6.7 because I can't go beyond 1/180th in shutter speed, I lose flash exposure and increase DOF. Ideally, I'd like to have flash synch up to 1/1000th, but that's complex and cost;y. And high-speed synch doesn't help much, because the flash power is greatly diminished by multiple firings. Paul Of course, with hummingbirds, it's even worse. Why, at 1/180th, the hummingbird's wings have gone through a whole 38% of a stroke. With 1/250th, that'd be reduced to a mere 28%. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Oh another K-7 thread...
its only about 1/3 stop difference JC O'Connell (mailto:hifis...@gate.net) Honesty is the first chapter in the book of wisdom - Thomas Jefferson -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Matthew Miller Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 9:01 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 08:54:29PM -0400, paul stenquist wrote: The difference between 1/180th and 1/250th flash synch is substantial when shooting a brightly backlit subject in bright daylight. A lot can happen in 0.0016 seconds. -- Matthew Miller mat...@mattdm.org http://mattdm.org/ The Definitive Pentax P-TTL Flash Model Guide: http://pttl.mattdm.org/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
It's called High Speed sync. Works with PUF and external wired. On May 21, 2009, at 17:54 , paul stenquist wrote: The difference between 1/180th and 1/250th flash synch is substantial when shooting a brightly backlit subject in bright daylight. Paul On May 21, 2009, at 6:28 PM, Thibouille wrote: I wonder how one can draw such conclusions: * without trying the camera * seing anything else than sample (usually uninteresting whatever the brand) and a picture (of the girl) from internal Jpeg with sharpness set a -2, custom image settings set to portrait (!!) * You didn't test AF and probably you didn't read reports of quite speedier AF specially those with SDM, * Light type sensor for correcting AF (less FF/BF issue e.g. in tungsten light) * You ignore the fact that Mjpeg may mean a whole lot better quality (at the bit rate mentionned by Pentax) that Panasonic GH1 or Canon 5dii, * AF and aperture control in video (5dii where are you?) * That the 'huge' difference between 1/180 and 1/250 is a half stop (wow, huge). Btw, 5Dii is stuck at 1/200, , Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com http://gallery.me.com/jomac http://web.me.com/jomac/show.me/Blog/Blog.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Oh another K-7 thread...
This is catastrophic! My retirement plans were entirley based on selling backlit protraits of hummingbirds to microstock agencies!!! Mark! [...] Weren't you going to go back to lurking? VW Stain! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Oh another K-7 thread...
He's turning into a beetle. Well, William, what does the VW stand for? Cheers, Christine - Original Message - From: John Poirier Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... Yes, I was going to slip quietly away, but I made the mistake of looking at one last message. That combined with a slow evening and two near-lethal martinis from my darling wife led me astray. Normally I'm the soul of discretion and moderation, and would never venture to intrude on the proceeedings of this august group. (Actually, I realy enjoy the PDMl- have been a lurker since the mid-nineties, but am usually too tied up with other stuff to participate consistently.) jeeze, I hope you didn't take that personally or anything. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
Peter, I just wanted to add that Pentax has a well-established tradition of putting crap pictures as quality samples in their Japanese website. I'm not worried at all by seeing that stuff and I'm confident the K-7 will give a much much higher IQ when properly handled. Dario - Original Message - From: Peter Zalabai tim...@clancode.hu To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 11:53 PM Subject: Oh another K-7 thread... Hi list, Sorry for opening a new K-7 thread... I just tought to share my thoughts with you... So... K-7. When I first saw the pictures it was a beauty for me. The first thing that crossed my mind is I MUST HAVE ONE (yeah with all-caps :D). The K-7 is a very nice and very stylish camera and it brings back the old style when engineers designed machines with ruler and bows. Personally I dislike the now trendy 'everything is rounded' style that rules the designs nowadays (cars, computers, phones etc). But, oh-well, Nikon has quite similar design with D3 and D700, so it's not that unique, yet Pentax made it much more stylish than Nikon (IMHO). Then as the first set of so-called-specifications came the K-7 was still a promising camera. 1/250 Synch and 1/8000 Shutter, Better AF, HD-Video, AF Assist light, etc. All in all the K-7 was the nice big red balloon that everyone wants :) But as time passed by the specifications turned to be false or not-that-nice. 1/250 went back to 1/180, Better AF -like the sensor- is just an Improved (but same) SAFOX VII, HD-Video is only 720 lines and motion JPEG... And now the test shots on the official page... Terrible. First the girl... totally lacks sharpness for me and well the dynamic range of the photo seems to me not that awesome. Then same applies to almost all shots. And in the end the last shot made with the 12-24. Terrible CA. One of the new features is the CA correction and this how they market it? So all in all I am very disappointed with the K-7 as the new flagship model. It's nothing more just the K20D with a class-closing (or how should I call the opposite of class leading? :D) HD video feature and tweaked features. The nice big red balloon seems to be popped out... But don't get me wrong... I still love the K20D and the Pentax Side of Life :) Regards, .timber -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
John Francis jo...@panix.com wrote: Or using the flash for catchlights, and wanting to use 1/250 for other reasons (such as, say, photographing cars in motion). High-speed flash sync probably works fine for that, though. Does that produce multiple (or different in some other way) catchlights? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
Christine Aguila cagu...@earthlink.net wrote: Well, William, what does the VW stand for? Cheers, Christine There was a review of the PDML annual that was run through the same translator as the K7 stuff. Mark came out as Stain and Bill came out as Valuation, amongst other amusements. - Original Message - From: William Robb war...@gmail.com To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 12:48 AM Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... - Original Message - From: John Poirier Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... Yes, I was going to slip quietly away, but I made the mistake of looking at one last message. That combined with a slow evening and two near-lethal martinis from my darling wife led me astray. Normally I'm the soul of discretion and moderation, and would never venture to intrude on the proceeedings of this august group. (Actually, I realy enjoy the PDMl- have been a lurker since the mid-nineties, but am usually too tied up with other stuff to participate consistently.) jeeze, I hope you didn't take that personally or anything. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
Imaging Resource preview updated with Ruggedness / Build Quality; Shake Reduction / Image Shift System. (including eletronic level functions etc.) http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/K7/K7A.HTM -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille -- Photo: K10D,Z1,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ... Thinkpad: X23+UB,X60+UB Programing: D7 user (trying out D2007) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
Every half stop is critical when you're mixing flash and daylight. I've shot outdoor wedding ceremonies that were under a gazebo with a lit background. I need the higher shutter speed both to open the stop a bit and keep the shutter speed high enough for can't miss handholding. A faster flash synch speed is something that should be available at this price point. DOF is just one small part of the equation. Paul On May 22, 2009, at 12:04 AM, Matthew Miller wrote: On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 11:09:00PM -0400, Paul Stenquist wrote: You're missing the fact that the amount of flash exposure you can work into a shot is dependent only on the f stop. So if I shoot a backlit portrait outdoors at f5.6, 1.250th, I can fill flash in at that 5.6 value. If I'm forced to stop down to f6.7 because I can't go beyond 1/180th in shutter speed, I lose flash exposure and increase DOF. But again, *half* a stop. Assuming the FA 77mm at 10 feet, the depth of field is going from about 13 to 15. (Right? Up past my bedtime, so feel free to check my math.) Two (and a half, actually -- rounding) inches isn't nothing, but it's still only two inches. Ideally, I'd like to have flash synch up to 1/1000th, but that's complex and cost;y. Right, I understand that going from 0.0056s to 0.0010s would be useful. That's two and a half stops better, and in the example above, you're shooting at f/2.8 and have more than halved your DOF, down to about 6. And high-speed synch doesn't help much, because the flash power is greatly diminished by multiple firings. So, improved noise performance should help just as well, right? I wouldn't be surprised at all if the sensor refinements gain you your half stop back right there. Optimistically, more. -- Matthew Miller mat...@mattdm.org http://mattdm.org/ The Definitive Pentax P-TTL Flash Model Guide: http://pttl.mattdm.org/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
Paul Stenquist wrote: Every half stop is critical when you're mixing flash and daylight. I've shot outdoor wedding ceremonies that were under a gazebo with a lit background. I need the higher shutter speed both to open the stop a bit and keep the shutter speed high enough for can't miss handholding. A faster flash synch speed is something that should be available at this price point. DOF is just one small part of the equation. Paul Is there any con in using shutter priority and hi-speed synch of your choice? I've used it with my K20D and pictures look fine. Dario -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
But you lose much of the flash output. I use it all the time. It's a poor substitute for real high speed synch. Paul On May 22, 2009, at 2:50 AM, Joseph McAllister wrote: It's called High Speed sync. Works with PUF and external wired. On May 21, 2009, at 17:54 , paul stenquist wrote: The difference between 1/180th and 1/250th flash synch is substantial when shooting a brightly backlit subject in bright daylight. Paul On May 21, 2009, at 6:28 PM, Thibouille wrote: I wonder how one can draw such conclusions: * without trying the camera * seing anything else than sample (usually uninteresting whatever the brand) and a picture (of the girl) from internal Jpeg with sharpness set a -2, custom image settings set to portrait (!!) * You didn't test AF and probably you didn't read reports of quite speedier AF specially those with SDM, * Light type sensor for correcting AF (less FF/BF issue e.g. in tungsten light) * You ignore the fact that Mjpeg may mean a whole lot better quality (at the bit rate mentionned by Pentax) that Panasonic GH1 or Canon 5dii, * AF and aperture control in video (5dii where are you?) * That the 'huge' difference between 1/180 and 1/250 is a half stop (wow, huge). Btw, 5Dii is stuck at 1/200, , Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com http://gallery.me.com/jomac http://web.me.com/jomac/show.me/Blog/Blog.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
Every half stop is critical when you're mixing flash and daylight. I've shot outdoor wedding ceremonies that were under a gazebo with a lit background. I need the higher shutter speed both to open the stop a bit and keep the shutter speed high enough for can't miss handholding. A faster flash synch speed is something that should be available at this price point. DOF is just one small part of the equation. Paul Is there any con in using shutter priority and hi-speed synch of your choice? I've used it with my K20D and pictures look fine. HSS doesn't buy you any extra flash output, in fact it reduces it on many models of flash. (the same energy must be spread over a range of exposures to build up the frame, so you don't get full power in each slice). Basically once you hit max flash output (or the max you want to use for acceptable recycle times), the only way to increase the flash's contribution is to reduce ambient, ie faster shutter speed (changing aperture affects both flash and ambient). As awesome as the K7 does look, this is the thing I really wanted to see improved, and what disappoints me most about the specs. Especially as they took the opporunity to improve the FPS and max shutter, so presumably a new shutter mechanism, without addressing this basic issue. Also, I don't see why they don't offer an electronic shutter on 1/180th exposures, some of the Nikon DSLRs have done this (was it the D70?), and it allows flash sync at any shutter speed - the mechanical shutter never goes faster than 1/250th (or whatever) and the quicker exposure is done electronically. There may be some technical reason not to offer ths, but one would think if you can do live view (ie, readout during exposure), surely electronic shutter isn't that different. - Peter -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
Because you get only partial flash output, the catchlights and the illumination are minimal with artificial high-speed synch. Non- existent in bright light at a distance of more than five or six feet. I use it all the time, but it's a poor substitute for the real thing. Paul On May 22, 2009, at 4:02 AM, mike wilson wrote: John Francis jo...@panix.com wrote: Or using the flash for catchlights, and wanting to use 1/250 for other reasons (such as, say, photographing cars in motion). High-speed flash sync probably works fine for that, though. Does that produce multiple (or different in some other way) catchlights? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
You get only minimal flash output. From twenty feet in daylight, it's zilch. Paul On May 22, 2009, at 7:25 AM, Dario Bonazza wrote: Paul Stenquist wrote: Every half stop is critical when you're mixing flash and daylight. I've shot outdoor wedding ceremonies that were under a gazebo with a lit background. I need the higher shutter speed both to open the stop a bit and keep the shutter speed high enough for can't miss handholding. A faster flash synch speed is something that should be available at this price point. DOF is just one small part of the equation. Paul Is there any con in using shutter priority and hi-speed synch of your choice? I've used it with my K20D and pictures look fine. Dario -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
paul stenquist wrote: Every half stop is critical when you're mixing flash and daylight. I've shot outdoor wedding ceremonies that were under a gazebo with a lit background. I need the higher shutter speed both to open the stop a bit and keep the shutter speed high enough for can't miss handholding. A faster flash synch speed is something that should be available at this price point. DOF is just one small part of the equation. I too am disappointed at the 1/180 flash sync speed. The difference between 1/180 and 1/250 can indeed be significant, making the difference between a shot that's saleable and one that isn't. I was once shooting finish line photos in a marathon which had the runners coming in with the sun at their backs -- poor planning on the part of the race organizers, eh? ;-) I was using the PZ-1p at the time and could see the difference 1/250 made between marginally acceptable and completely unacceptable or between acceptable and good. (And full sun backlight makes the power loss of Hish Speed Sync flash unacceptable.) Or, put another way: The difference between 1/180 sync and 1/250 may not be huge, but in some circumstances it can be *much* bigger than the difference between a consumer-grade kit lens and the thousand dollar pro lens so many of us (justly) lust over. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 07:49:36AM -0400, paul stenquist wrote: Because you get only partial flash output, the catchlights and the illumination are minimal with artificial high-speed synch. Non-existent in bright light at a distance of more than five or six feet. I use it all the time, but it's a poor substitute for the real thing. To put some numbers on it: the Metz 48 AF-1 has a GN of 35 at 50mm-e @ ISO 100, but in HSS mode, only 15. That means about 80% of the power is lost. -- Matthew Miller mat...@mattdm.org http://mattdm.org/ The Definitive Pentax P-TTL Flash Model Guide: http://pttl.mattdm.org/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
Somebody translated Bill as Valuation. Wheatfield Willy became VW...very germanic. Regards, Bob S. On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 12:49 AM, Christine Aguila cagu...@earthlink.net wrote: Well, William, what does the VW stand for? Cheers, Christine - Original Message - From: William Robb war...@gmail.com To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 12:48 AM Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... - Original Message - From: John Poirier Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... Yes, I was going to slip quietly away, but I made the mistake of looking at one last message. That combined with a slow evening and two near-lethal martinis from my darling wife led me astray. Normally I'm the soul of discretion and moderation, and would never venture to intrude on the proceeedings of this august group. (Actually, I realy enjoy the PDMl- have been a lurker since the mid-nineties, but am usually too tied up with other stuff to participate consistently.) jeeze, I hope you didn't take that personally or anything. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Oh another K-7 thread...
the biggest problem with slow sync speeds is you end up having to use small fstops to get the ambient light exposure correct and that robs you of flash range and/or flash fill ratio, but half stop is half a stop, its a moderate improvement. Compared to 1/60 in the old days 1/250 is fantastic though. JC O'Connell (mailto:hifis...@gate.net) Honesty is the first chapter in the book of wisdom - Thomas Jefferson -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of paul stenquist Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 7:46 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... But you lose much of the flash output. I use it all the time. It's a poor substitute for real high speed synch. Paul On May 22, 2009, at 2:50 AM, Joseph McAllister wrote: It's called High Speed sync. Works with PUF and external wired. On May 21, 2009, at 17:54 , paul stenquist wrote: The difference between 1/180th and 1/250th flash synch is substantial when shooting a brightly backlit subject in bright daylight. Paul On May 21, 2009, at 6:28 PM, Thibouille wrote: I wonder how one can draw such conclusions: * without trying the camera * seing anything else than sample (usually uninteresting whatever the brand) and a picture (of the girl) from internal Jpeg with sharpness set a -2, custom image settings set to portrait (!!) * You didn't test AF and probably you didn't read reports of quite speedier AF specially those with SDM, * Light type sensor for correcting AF (less FF/BF issue e.g. in tungsten light) * You ignore the fact that Mjpeg may mean a whole lot better quality (at the bit rate mentionned by Pentax) that Panasonic GH1 or Canon 5dii, * AF and aperture control in video (5dii where are you?) * That the 'huge' difference between 1/180 and 1/250 is a half stop (wow, huge). Btw, 5Dii is stuck at 1/200, , Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com http://gallery.me.com/jomac http://web.me.com/jomac/show.me/Blog/Blog.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
- Original Message - From: paul stenquist Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... Every half stop is critical when you're mixing flash and daylight. I've shot outdoor wedding ceremonies that were under a gazebo with a lit background. I need the higher shutter speed both to open the stop a bit and keep the shutter speed high enough for can't miss handholding. A faster flash synch speed is something that should be available at this price point. DOF is just one small part of the equation. Depth of field is, for practical purposes, a non issue in this application. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
- Original Message - From: Dario Bonazza Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... Every half stop is critical when you're mixing flash and daylight. I've shot outdoor wedding ceremonies that were under a gazebo with a lit background. I need the higher shutter speed both to open the stop a bit and keep the shutter speed high enough for can't miss handholding. A faster flash synch speed is something that should be available at this price point. DOF is just one small part of the equation. Paul Is there any con in using shutter priority and hi-speed synch of your choice? I've used it with my K20D and pictures look fine. Flash range is shortened considerably, and few flash units support it. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Oh another K-7 thread...
DOF is a non issue with only a 1/3 to 1/2 stop max speed difference true. But if you have a full range of shutter speeds with flash sync, then DOF control does become an option with fill flash. If your shutter can sync at any speed you can use whatever stop you like to control DOF. JC O'Connell (mailto:hifis...@gate.net) Honesty is the first chapter in the book of wisdom - Thomas Jefferson -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of William Robb Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 9:51 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... - Original Message - From: paul stenquist Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... Every half stop is critical when you're mixing flash and daylight. I've shot outdoor wedding ceremonies that were under a gazebo with a lit background. I need the higher shutter speed both to open the stop a bit and keep the shutter speed high enough for can't miss handholding. A faster flash synch speed is something that should be available at this price point. DOF is just one small part of the equation. Depth of field is, for practical purposes, a non issue in this application. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
Define the old days ;-) My FM2n and FE2 (both circa 1983) and my F801s (circa 1991) all have 1/250 sync. -Adam On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 8:40 AM, JC OConnell hifis...@gate.net wrote: the biggest problem with slow sync speeds is you end up having to use small fstops to get the ambient light exposure correct and that robs you of flash range and/or flash fill ratio, but half stop is half a stop, its a moderate improvement. Compared to 1/60 in the old days 1/250 is fantastic though. JC O'Connell (mailto:hifis...@gate.net) Honesty is the first chapter in the book of wisdom - Thomas Jefferson -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of paul stenquist Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 7:46 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... But you lose much of the flash output. I use it all the time. It's a poor substitute for real high speed synch. Paul On May 22, 2009, at 2:50 AM, Joseph McAllister wrote: It's called High Speed sync. Works with PUF and external wired. On May 21, 2009, at 17:54 , paul stenquist wrote: The difference between 1/180th and 1/250th flash synch is substantial when shooting a brightly backlit subject in bright daylight. Paul On May 21, 2009, at 6:28 PM, Thibouille wrote: I wonder how one can draw such conclusions: * without trying the camera * seing anything else than sample (usually uninteresting whatever the brand) and a picture (of the girl) from internal Jpeg with sharpness set a -2, custom image settings set to portrait (!!) * You didn't test AF and probably you didn't read reports of quite speedier AF specially those with SDM, * Light type sensor for correcting AF (less FF/BF issue e.g. in tungsten light) * You ignore the fact that Mjpeg may mean a whole lot better quality (at the bit rate mentionned by Pentax) that Panasonic GH1 or Canon 5dii, * AF and aperture control in video (5dii where are you?) * That the 'huge' difference between 1/180 and 1/250 is a half stop (wow, huge). Btw, 5Dii is stuck at 1/200, , Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com http://gallery.me.com/jomac http://web.me.com/jomac/show.me/Blog/Blog.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
- Original Message - From: Adam Maas Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... Define the old days ;-) My FM2n and FE2 (both circa 1983) and my F801s (circa 1991) all have 1/250 sync. Heck, my old Nikkormat FTn, which dated from the late 1960s had a 1/125 second sync speed. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Oh another K-7 thread...
I dont recall Pentax going faster than 1/60 for sync speeds until the K mount bodies which were all 1975 or later. I think the difference was the cloth vs metal shutters. The cloth shutters were slower at full opening required for sync. JC O'Connell (mailto:hifis...@gate.net) Honesty is the first chapter in the book of wisdom - Thomas Jefferson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
- Original Message - From: JC OConnell Subject: RE: Oh another K-7 thread... I dont recall Pentax going faster than 1/60 for sync speeds until the K mount bodies which were all 1975 or later. I think the difference was the cloth vs metal shutters. The cloth shutters were slower at full opening required for sync. JC O'Connell (mailto:hifis...@gate.net) Honesty is the first chapter in the book of wisdom - Thomas Jefferson -- When they went to metal horizontal shutters, they got a nominal increase in sync. The LX syncs at 1/75 second. The real improvements in flash sync came with vertical multiblade shutters. Please fix you email program to stop putting in all these carriage retunrs. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
Volkswagen of course... Christine Aguila wrote: Well, William, what does the VW stand for? Cheers, Christine - Original Message - From: William Robb war...@gmail.com To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 12:48 AM Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... - Original Message - From: John Poirier Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... Yes, I was going to slip quietly away, but I made the mistake of looking at one last message. That combined with a slow evening and two near-lethal martinis from my darling wife led me astray. Normally I'm the soul of discretion and moderation, and would never venture to intrude on the proceeedings of this august group. (Actually, I realy enjoy the PDMl- have been a lurker since the mid-nineties, but am usually too tied up with other stuff to participate consistently.) jeeze, I hope you didn't take that personally or anything. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- -- The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a free man any more than a dog. --G. K. Chesterton -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 12:14:59AM -0600, William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: John Poirier Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... I too await an explanation for VW. You'll be sorry. VW I didn't think VW stood for much of anything .. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 09:02:13AM +0100, mike wilson wrote: John Francis jo...@panix.com wrote: Or using the flash for catchlights, and wanting to use 1/250 for other reasons (such as, say, photographing cars in motion). High-speed flash sync probably works fine for that, though. Does that produce multiple (or different in some other way) catchlights? Probably, if you look extremely closely. But if I'm using shutter speeds around 1/250s I'm doing that to blur the wheels, and I'm panning with the car to try and prevent blur on the body. The angle between me and the car doesn't change very much, so the catchlight stays in the same place, both on the car and on the sensor. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
IIRC the first Pentax I saw with a flash sync speed faster than 1/60 was the 1/100 of the ME, which introduced the vertical-run metal shutter (made by Sanyo, I believe). The ME Super tweaked this slightly to 1/125*. And that was as good as it got until the PZ-1p came along in the mid 90s. A quick look at Boz's site confirms my recollections, but also shows that the K2 had a 1/125 sync speed. I don't know whether this was with a cloth or a metal shutter. It also shows that Penrax consistently offered two different capabilities; only the top of the range offered the fastest sync speed, while the other contemporary bodies had slightly lower performance. [*] That tweak, from 1/100 to 1/125, is just about the same as the relative difference between 1/180 and 1/250. It's even closer than the numbers suggest, as there was a wide-spread opinion that the true flash sync speed of the ME was closer to 1/90 than 1/100. On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 08:50:11AM -0600, William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: JC OConnell Subject: RE: Oh another K-7 thread... I dont recall Pentax going faster than 1/60 for sync speeds until the K mount bodies which were all 1975 or later. I think the difference was the cloth vs metal shutters. The cloth shutters were slower at full opening required for sync. JC O'Connell (mailto:hifis...@gate.net) Honesty is the first chapter in the book of wisdom - Thomas Jefferson -- When they went to metal horizontal shutters, they got a nominal increase in sync. The LX syncs at 1/75 second. The real improvements in flash sync came with vertical multiblade shutters. Please fix you email program to stop putting in all these carriage retunrs. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
The old days, many years ago, (about 6 actually), when my primary cameras were an LX and an MX. The LX had a blazing sync speed of 1/75th second. Adam Maas wrote: Define the old days ;-) My FM2n and FE2 (both circa 1983) and my F801s (circa 1991) all have 1/250 sync. -Adam On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 8:40 AM, JC OConnell hifis...@gate.net wrote: the biggest problem with slow sync speeds is you end up having to use small fstops to get the ambient light exposure correct and that robs you of flash range and/or flash fill ratio, but half stop is half a stop, its a moderate improvement. Compared to 1/60 in the old days 1/250 is fantastic though. JC O'Connell (mailto:hifis...@gate.net) Honesty is the first chapter in the book of wisdom - Thomas Jefferson -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of paul stenquist Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 7:46 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... But you lose much of the flash output. I use it all the time. It's a poor substitute for real high speed synch. Paul On May 22, 2009, at 2:50 AM, Joseph McAllister wrote: It's called High Speed sync. Works with PUF and external wired. On May 21, 2009, at 17:54 , paul stenquist wrote: The difference between 1/180th and 1/250th flash synch is substantial when shooting a brightly backlit subject in bright daylight. Paul On May 21, 2009, at 6:28 PM, Thibouille wrote: I wonder how one can draw such conclusions: * without trying the camera * seing anything else than sample (usually uninteresting whatever the brand) and a picture (of the girl) from internal Jpeg with sharpness set a -2, custom image settings set to portrait (!!) * You didn't test AF and probably you didn't read reports of quite speedier AF specially those with SDM, * Light type sensor for correcting AF (less FF/BF issue e.g. in tungsten light) * You ignore the fact that Mjpeg may mean a whole lot better quality (at the bit rate mentionned by Pentax) that Panasonic GH1 or Canon 5dii, * AF and aperture control in video (5dii where are you?) * That the 'huge' difference between 1/180 and 1/250 is a half stop (wow, huge). Btw, 5Dii is stuck at 1/200, , Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com http://gallery.me.com/jomac http://web.me.com/jomac/show.me/Blog/Blog.html -- The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a free man any more than a dog. --G. K. Chesterton -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
The K2 was the first Pentax camera with a vertically run shutter, I was selling cameras at the time it came out and I was impressed, though not enough to immediately replace my Spotmatic. IIRC it may in fact have been the first to use the Seiko electronic shutter. John Francis wrote: IIRC the first Pentax I saw with a flash sync speed faster than 1/60 was the 1/100 of the ME, which introduced the vertical-run metal shutter (made by Sanyo, I believe). The ME Super tweaked this slightly to 1/125*. And that was as good as it got until the PZ-1p came along in the mid 90s. A quick look at Boz's site confirms my recollections, but also shows that the K2 had a 1/125 sync speed. I don't know whether this was with a cloth or a metal shutter. It also shows that Penrax consistently offered two different capabilities; only the top of the range offered the fastest sync speed, while the other contemporary bodies had slightly lower performance. [*] That tweak, from 1/100 to 1/125, is just about the same as the relative difference between 1/180 and 1/250. It's even closer than the numbers suggest, as there was a wide-spread opinion that the true flash sync speed of the ME was closer to 1/90 than 1/100. On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 08:50:11AM -0600, William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: JC OConnell Subject: RE: Oh another K-7 thread... I dont recall Pentax going faster than 1/60 for sync speeds until the K mount bodies which were all 1975 or later. I think the difference was the cloth vs metal shutters. The cloth shutters were slower at full opening required for sync. JC O'Connell (mailto:hifis...@gate.net) Honesty is the first chapter in the book of wisdom - Thomas Jefferson -- -- The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a free man any more than a dog. --G. K. Chesterton -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
Looks like you are in the market for a MF camera with leaf shutters then to meet your goals. Will you be selling your lenses for 35mm? Anything interesting? On May 22, 2009, at 04:49 , paul stenquist wrote: Because you get only partial flash output, the catchlights and the illumination are minimal with artificial high-speed synch. Non- existent in bright light at a distance of more than five or six feet. I use it all the time, but it's a poor substitute for the real thing. Paul On May 22, 2009, at 4:02 AM, mike wilson wrote: John Francis jo...@panix.com wrote: Or using the flash for catchlights, and wanting to use 1/250 for other reasons (such as, say, photographing cars in motion). High-speed flash sync probably works fine for that, though. Does that produce multiple (or different in some other way) catchlights? Joseph McAllister Pentaxian http://gallery.me.com/jomac http://web.me.com/jomac/show.me/Blog/Blog.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
Maybe some day they'll figure out how to get light to travel faster, or conversely get shutter curtains to zip across the focal plain faster than 10,000 miles per hour. I'm opting for an optical glass shutter that blocks light completely until hit with a current at which time it becomes utterly transparent until the current is removed. Could even be combined with the low-pass filter glass. No fee for the idea, but I'd be glad to help with the science, Pentax Joe On May 22, 2009, at 07:35 , William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: Adam Maas Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... Define the old days ;-) My FM2n and FE2 (both circa 1983) and my F801s (circa 1991) all have 1/250 sync. Heck, my old Nikkormat FTn, which dated from the late 1960s had a 1/125 second sync speed. William Robb Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com http://gallery.me.com/jomac http://web.me.com/jomac/show.me/Blog/Blog.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
There's a noticeable lag in windows made that way. (Maybe there's been a speed improvement since the last time I saw one of them demonstrated). Joseph McAllister wrote: Maybe some day they'll figure out how to get light to travel faster, or conversely get shutter curtains to zip across the focal plain faster than 10,000 miles per hour. I'm opting for an optical glass shutter that blocks light completely until hit with a current at which time it becomes utterly transparent until the current is removed. Could even be combined with the low-pass filter glass. No fee for the idea, but I'd be glad to help with the science, Pentax Joe On May 22, 2009, at 07:35 , William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: Adam Maas Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... Define the old days ;-) My FM2n and FE2 (both circa 1983) and my F801s (circa 1991) all have 1/250 sync. Heck, my old Nikkormat FTn, which dated from the late 1960s had a 1/125 second sync speed. William Robb Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com http://gallery.me.com/jomac http://web.me.com/jomac/show.me/Blog/Blog.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- -- The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a free man any more than a dog. --G. K. Chesterton -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
Valuation Willie On May 22, 2009, at 09:45 , John Francis wrote: On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 12:14:59AM -0600, William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: John Poirier Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... I too await an explanation for VW. You'll be sorry. VW I didn't think VW stood for much of anything .. Joseph McAllister Pentaxian http://gallery.me.com/jomac http://web.me.com/jomac/show.me/Blog/Blog.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
Ok - so whats the significance of Value Reductions ? Kenneth Waller http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: William Robb war...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... - Original Message - From: Christine Aguila Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... Well, William, what does the VW stand for? Cheers, Christine Value Reductions Except I talk like Elmer Fudd, so it comes out sounding like Value Weductions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
mike wilson wrote: Christine Aguila cagu...@earthlink.net wrote: Well, William, what does the VW stand for? Cheers, Christine There was a review of the PDML annual that was run through the same translator as the K7 stuff. Mark came out as Stain and Bill came out as Valuation, amongst other amusements. I believe I was dubbed Speck as well as Stain. Quite in keeping with my schizophrenic personality :) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
You are probably correct. It's too slow these days. Maybe if we hit it with 1200 volts @ 40 amps it would work. :-) I was waiting for someone to argue my 10,000 mph was incorrect for for focal plane shutter velocity. It probably is. By the way, when I worked in a gov't lab in the late 70s and through the 80's that exposed film with a signal from 3 satellites (KH-11) we used a Laser Image Reconstructor (LIR) that was basically a 12 ton laser printer (5 watt laser) where the beam intensity was controlled by a block of some sort of crystal that modulated the beam between opaque and sorta clear fast enough to paint lines (2183 per inch) on film being pulled through the machine at a few inches per second with a 48 facet air bearing'd spinner polished and silverd quartz crystal at 24,000 rpm, each facet drawing a line across the film. Now that's fast reaction time for a crystal modulator. And I do not remember what the electrical specs were for that crystal modulator. I imagine quite high bias voltage moderate current. The driver transistors (about twice the size of a 3055) occupied a 18 24 aluminum board immersed in circulating triple-distilled water fed by a 250 gallon refrigerated tank. On May 22, 2009, at 12:45 , P. J. Alling wrote: There's a noticeable lag in windows made that way. (Maybe there's been a speed improvement since the last time I saw one of them demonstrated). Joseph McAllister wrote: Maybe some day they'll figure out how to get light to travel faster, or conversely get shutter curtains to zip across the focal plain faster than 10,000 miles per hour. I'm opting for an optical glass shutter that blocks light completely until hit with a current at which time it becomes utterly transparent until the current is removed. Could even be combined with the low-pass filter glass. No fee for the idea, but I'd be glad to help with the science, Pentax Joe On May 22, 2009, at 07:35 , William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: Adam Maas Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... Define the old days ;-) My FM2n and FE2 (both circa 1983) and my F801s (circa 1991) all have 1/250 sync. Heck, my old Nikkormat FTn, which dated from the late 1960s had a 1/125 second sync speed. William Robb If it doesn’t excite you, This thing that you see, Why in the world, Would it excite me? —Jay Maisel Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
Well, since you asked, shutter blade velocity is 6m/s at 1/250th. That works out to about 13.5mph ;-) -Adam On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 4:26 PM, Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com wrote: I was waiting for someone to argue my 10,000 mph was incorrect for for focal plane shutter velocity. It probably is. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
Technically, we don't really need a shutter for digital anymore, do we? The sensor can always stay on, and you can have it report back to the processor for increments as small as you can manage with the processor and bus speed, such as 50,000/sec. The trick is to siphon off the heat and electrons (noise, etc.) so that you can keep the sensor active and amplified for sensitivity at fast increments. It's a difficult trick (ask the people who made the Red One camera pass 2k RGB at 120fps from the sensor). As sensors and processors with HD video technology progress at shunting the the amplification side effects, the speed will get more pronounced and one day we'll see the sensor really opened up to fast processing beyond what mechanical shutters can accommodate. I believe that's being worked out. Look at the Phantom HD video camera (http://www.visionresearch.com/) that gets 3k at 1,400 fps (and Shutter speeds down to 1 microsecond). Those developments are coming to consumer cameras probably in the next 5 years. Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 12:42:29 -0700 From: Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... Maybe some day they'll figure out how to get light to travel faster, or conversely get shutter curtains to zip across the focal plain faster than 10,000 miles per hour. I'm opting for an optical glass shutter that blocks light completely until hit with a current at which time it becomes utterly transparent until the current is removed. Could even be combined with the low-pass filter glass. No fee for the idea, but I'd be glad to help with the science, Pentax Joe -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
I didn't think VW stood for much of anything .. Very Witty.. Kenneth Waller http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: John Francis jo...@panix.com Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 12:14:59AM -0600, William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: John Poirier Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... I too await an explanation for VW. You'll be sorry. VW I didn't think VW stood for much of anything .. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
Just to be clear and make some people think about judging from pictures they dunno in which conditions they were taken, Ned Bunnel posted the texte of the K-7 brochure which will come with camera end of june. Page 3, the pictures mode (Jpeg output) are bright, natural, landscapen portrait, vibrant, muted and monochrome. The Japan sample with the lady has been taken (see imaging-resource.com) with portrait mode which according to brochure's text: 'Decreases contrast and sharpness to give soft, natural skin tones.' It 'may' explain the lack of sharpness of the picture. Grunt. Rant terminated. -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille -- Photo: K10D,Z1,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ... Thinkpad: X23+UB,X60+UB Programing: D7 user (trying out D2007) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 01:26:54PM -0700, Joseph McAllister wrote: I was waiting for someone to argue my 10,000 mph was incorrect for for focal plane shutter velocity. It probably is. Well, let's look at that. Basically, the flash sync time can be taken as the time it takes for the shutter to move from one edge of the frame to the other. For an APS-C camera with a 1/180s flash sync that's 16mm in 1/180 of a second, or 2880mm/second, which is around 6.44 mph. So, yep - that 10,000 figure does sound a little high. (Not that you need the detailed arithmetic to know that; there's no sonic boom, so the shutter must be moving at less than 760 mph :-) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
Sounds nicely portable, planning on buying a surplus Russian Aircraft Carrier? Joseph McAllister wrote: You are probably correct. It's too slow these days. Maybe if we hit it with 1200 volts @ 40 amps it would work. :-) I was waiting for someone to argue my 10,000 mph was incorrect for for focal plane shutter velocity. It probably is. By the way, when I worked in a gov't lab in the late 70s and through the 80's that exposed film with a signal from 3 satellites (KH-11) we used a Laser Image Reconstructor (LIR) that was basically a 12 ton laser printer (5 watt laser) where the beam intensity was controlled by a block of some sort of crystal that modulated the beam between opaque and sorta clear fast enough to paint lines (2183 per inch) on film being pulled through the machine at a few inches per second with a 48 facet air bearing'd spinner polished and silverd quartz crystal at 24,000 rpm, each facet drawing a line across the film. Now that's fast reaction time for a crystal modulator. And I do not remember what the electrical specs were for that crystal modulator. I imagine quite high bias voltage moderate current. The driver transistors (about twice the size of a 3055) occupied a 18 24 aluminum board immersed in circulating triple-distilled water fed by a 250 gallon refrigerated tank. On May 22, 2009, at 12:45 , P. J. Alling wrote: There's a noticeable lag in windows made that way. (Maybe there's been a speed improvement since the last time I saw one of them demonstrated). Joseph McAllister wrote: Maybe some day they'll figure out how to get light to travel faster, or conversely get shutter curtains to zip across the focal plain faster than 10,000 miles per hour. I'm opting for an optical glass shutter that blocks light completely until hit with a current at which time it becomes utterly transparent until the current is removed. Could even be combined with the low-pass filter glass. No fee for the idea, but I'd be glad to help with the science, Pentax Joe On May 22, 2009, at 07:35 , William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: Adam Maas Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... Define the old days ;-) My FM2n and FE2 (both circa 1983) and my F801s (circa 1991) all have 1/250 sync. Heck, my old Nikkormat FTn, which dated from the late 1960s had a 1/125 second sync speed. William Robb If it doesn’t excite you, This thing that you see, Why in the world, Would it excite me? —Jay Maisel Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- -- The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a free man any more than a dog. --G. K. Chesterton -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
Hell, I was just stunned by the concept of a hyper sonic shutter. Adam Maas wrote: Well, since you asked, shutter blade velocity is 6m/s at 1/250th. That works out to about 13.5mph ;-) -Adam On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 4:26 PM, Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com wrote: I was waiting for someone to argue my 10,000 mph was incorrect for for focal plane shutter velocity. It probably is. -- -- The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a free man any more than a dog. --G. K. Chesterton -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
So in other words, as of today we still need shutters... Michael Gaudet wrote: Technically, we don't really need a shutter for digital anymore, do we? The sensor can always stay on, and you can have it report back to the processor for increments as small as you can manage with the processor and bus speed, such as 50,000/sec. The trick is to siphon off the heat and electrons (noise, etc.) so that you can keep the sensor active and amplified for sensitivity at fast increments. It's a difficult trick (ask the people who made the Red One camera pass 2k RGB at 120fps from the sensor). As sensors and processors with HD video technology progress at shunting the the amplification side effects, the speed will get more pronounced and one day we'll see the sensor really opened up to fast processing beyond what mechanical shutters can accommodate. I believe that's being worked out. Look at the Phantom HD video camera (http://www.visionresearch.com/) that gets 3k at 1,400 fps (and Shutter speeds down to 1 microsecond). Those developments are coming to consumer cameras probably in the next 5 years. Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 12:42:29 -0700 From: Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... Maybe some day they'll figure out how to get light to travel faster, or conversely get shutter curtains to zip across the focal plain faster than 10,000 miles per hour. I'm opting for an optical glass shutter that blocks light completely until hit with a current at which time it becomes utterly transparent until the current is removed. Could even be combined with the low-pass filter glass. No fee for the idea, but I'd be glad to help with the science, Pentax Joe -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- -- The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a free man any more than a dog. --G. K. Chesterton -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
I have a medium format with leaf shutter: the Pentax 6x7 and the 165/4 LS lens. High speed synch is why I bought that lens. But I can't afford medium format digital at his time, and I sure as hell won't go back to film. So I would prefer Pentax get with the program and upgrade their synch speed. If they don't I'll make do. Always have, always will. Paul On May 22, 2009, at 3:17 PM, Joseph McAllister wrote: Looks like you are in the market for a MF camera with leaf shutters then to meet your goals. Will you be selling your lenses for 35mm? Anything interesting? On May 22, 2009, at 04:49 , paul stenquist wrote: Because you get only partial flash output, the catchlights and the illumination are minimal with artificial high-speed synch. Non- existent in bright light at a distance of more than five or six feet. I use it all the time, but it's a poor substitute for the real thing. Paul On May 22, 2009, at 4:02 AM, mike wilson wrote: John Francis jo...@panix.com wrote: Or using the flash for catchlights, and wanting to use 1/250 for other reasons (such as, say, photographing cars in motion). High-speed flash sync probably works fine for that, though. Does that produce multiple (or different in some other way) catchlights? Joseph McAllister Pentaxian http://gallery.me.com/jomac http://web.me.com/jomac/show.me/Blog/Blog.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
I wonder how one can draw such conclusions: * without trying the camera * seing anything else than sample (usually uninteresting whatever the brand) and a picture (of the girl) from internal Jpeg with sharpness set a -2, custom image settings set to portrait (!!) * You didn't test AF and probably you didn't read reports of quite speedier AF specially those with SDM, * Light type sensor for correcting AF (less FF/BF issue e.g. in tungsten light) * You ignore the fact that Mjpeg may mean a whole lot better quality (at the bit rate mentionned by Pentax) that Panasonic GH1 or Canon 5dii, * AF and aperture control in video (5dii where are you?) * That the 'huge' difference between 1/180 and 1/250 is a half stop (wow, huge). Btw, 5Dii is stuck at 1/200, , Ignoring all other features (useful or not for you): * HDR, * contrast AF /Face detection, * built-in level and auto level with SR, * dampened mirror/shutter; * fps, * copyright credits on recorded images, * completely new metering, * 100% viewfinder, * shutter certified for 100,000 actuations, * stereo sound in video using an external mic, * AA batteries possibility with grip, * etc. A lot of assumptions, never having it in your hands, don't you think? You may want a bit of a read: http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/K7/K7A.HTM I do not want you to be convinced, but your reaction now and based on those arguments is baseless IMO. Regards, -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille -- Photo: K10D,Z1,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ... Thinkpad: X23+UB,X60+UB Programing: D7 user (trying out D2007) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
Not conclusions, just feelings. I found very disappointing the sample shots on Pentax' site. I remember the old D300 sample shots that were shocking me and now seeing these shots to me it seems that the K-7 is worse than the K20D. I am not saying K-7 is bad or good but most of the all other features you mention are a, Box-Features; b, fixing weaknesses (marked them in your list). The VF and 100K Shutter are nice :) I just expressed my feeling about the K-7 which was a dissapointment for me. I still have traces of the I WANT ONE fever but... oh, you know :) And still... the sample shots on the site sucks. And _that's_ really disappointing. Again... I am not here to argue, to convince or judge anything or anyone... I just had a feeling about the K-7, based on all the info I got, which I wanted to share... :) So don't take it as an offense please ;) (Why so serious? :D) Regards, .timber Thibouille wrote: a HDR, a contrast AF /Face detection, * built-in level and auto level with SR, b dampened mirror/shutter; b fps, b copyright credits on recorded images, b completely new metering, * 100% viewfinder, * shutter certified for 100,000 actuations, a stereo sound in video using an external mic, b AA batteries possibility with grip, -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
The enclosed link should help sell a few K7s ! Kenneth Waller http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Thibouille pentaxl...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... I wonder how one can draw such conclusions: * without trying the camera * seing anything else than sample (usually uninteresting whatever the brand) and a picture (of the girl) from internal Jpeg with sharpness set a -2, custom image settings set to portrait (!!) * You didn't test AF and probably you didn't read reports of quite speedier AF specially those with SDM, * Light type sensor for correcting AF (less FF/BF issue e.g. in tungsten light) * You ignore the fact that Mjpeg may mean a whole lot better quality (at the bit rate mentionned by Pentax) that Panasonic GH1 or Canon 5dii, * AF and aperture control in video (5dii where are you?) * That the 'huge' difference between 1/180 and 1/250 is a half stop (wow, huge). Btw, 5Dii is stuck at 1/200, , Ignoring all other features (useful or not for you): * HDR, * contrast AF /Face detection, * built-in level and auto level with SR, * dampened mirror/shutter; * fps, * copyright credits on recorded images, * completely new metering, * 100% viewfinder, * shutter certified for 100,000 actuations, * stereo sound in video using an external mic, * AA batteries possibility with grip, * etc. A lot of assumptions, never having it in your hands, don't you think? You may want a bit of a read: http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/K7/K7A.HTM I do not want you to be convinced, but your reaction now and based on those arguments is baseless IMO. Regards, -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille -- Photo: K10D,Z1,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ... Thinkpad: X23+UB,X60+UB Programing: D7 user (trying out D2007) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
The difference between 1/180th and 1/250th flash synch is substantial when shooting a brightly backlit subject in bright daylight. Paul On May 21, 2009, at 6:28 PM, Thibouille wrote: I wonder how one can draw such conclusions: * without trying the camera * seing anything else than sample (usually uninteresting whatever the brand) and a picture (of the girl) from internal Jpeg with sharpness set a -2, custom image settings set to portrait (!!) * You didn't test AF and probably you didn't read reports of quite speedier AF specially those with SDM, * Light type sensor for correcting AF (less FF/BF issue e.g. in tungsten light) * You ignore the fact that Mjpeg may mean a whole lot better quality (at the bit rate mentionned by Pentax) that Panasonic GH1 or Canon 5dii, * AF and aperture control in video (5dii where are you?) * That the 'huge' difference between 1/180 and 1/250 is a half stop (wow, huge). Btw, 5Dii is stuck at 1/200, , Ignoring all other features (useful or not for you): * HDR, * contrast AF /Face detection, * built-in level and auto level with SR, * dampened mirror/shutter; * fps, * copyright credits on recorded images, * completely new metering, * 100% viewfinder, * shutter certified for 100,000 actuations, * stereo sound in video using an external mic, * AA batteries possibility with grip, * etc. A lot of assumptions, never having it in your hands, don't you think? You may want a bit of a read: http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/K7/K7A.HTM I do not want you to be convinced, but your reaction now and based on those arguments is baseless IMO. Regards, -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille -- Photo: K10D,Z1,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ... Thinkpad: X23+UB,X60+UB Programing: D7 user (trying out D2007) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 08:54:29PM -0400, paul stenquist wrote: The difference between 1/180th and 1/250th flash synch is substantial when shooting a brightly backlit subject in bright daylight. A lot can happen in 0.0016 seconds. -- Matthew Miller mat...@mattdm.org http://mattdm.org/ The Definitive Pentax P-TTL Flash Model Guide: http://pttl.mattdm.org/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
- Original Message - From: Matthew Miller Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... The difference between 1/180th and 1/250th flash synch is substantial when shooting a brightly backlit subject in bright daylight. A lot can happen in 0.0016 seconds. C'est what? William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
It's not about what can happen of course. It's about getting your stop and still being able to use fill. Paul On May 21, 2009, at 9:10 PM, William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: Matthew Miller Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... The difference between 1/180th and 1/250th flash synch is substantial when shooting a brightly backlit subject in bright daylight. A lot can happen in 0.0016 seconds. C'est what? William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
Or using the flash for catchlights, and wanting to use 1/250 for other reasons (such as, say, photographing cars in motion). High-speed flash sync probably works fine for that, though. On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 09:14:40PM -0400, paul stenquist wrote: It's not about what can happen of course. It's about getting your stop and still being able to use fill. Paul On May 21, 2009, at 9:10 PM, William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: Matthew Miller Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... The difference between 1/180th and 1/250th flash synch is substantial when shooting a brightly backlit subject in bright daylight. A lot can happen in 0.0016 seconds. C'est what? William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
Thibouille wrote: I wonder how one can draw such conclusions: What, you've never been to Ken R***'s web site? -- Thanks, DougF (KG4LMZ) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
timber, The rest of us have no idea where you are looking to form your opinions. Maybe you can back them up with something? Pictures, links, ??? Regards, Bob S. On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 4:53 PM, Peter Zalabai tim...@clancode.hu wrote: Hi list, Sorry for opening a new K-7 thread... I just tought to share my thoughts with you... So... K-7. When I first saw the pictures it was a beauty for me. The first thing that crossed my mind is I MUST HAVE ONE (yeah with all-caps :D). The K-7 is a very nice and very stylish camera and it brings back the old style when engineers designed machines with ruler and bows. Personally I dislike the now trendy 'everything is rounded' style that rules the designs nowadays (cars, computers, phones etc). But, oh-well, Nikon has quite similar design with D3 and D700, so it's not that unique, yet Pentax made it much more stylish than Nikon (IMHO). Then as the first set of so-called-specifications came the K-7 was still a promising camera. 1/250 Synch and 1/8000 Shutter, Better AF, HD-Video, AF Assist light, etc. All in all the K-7 was the nice big red balloon that everyone wants :) But as time passed by the specifications turned to be false or not-that-nice. 1/250 went back to 1/180, Better AF -like the sensor- is just an Improved (but same) SAFOX VII, HD-Video is only 720 lines and motion JPEG... And now the test shots on the official page... Terrible. First the girl... totally lacks sharpness for me and well the dynamic range of the photo seems to me not that awesome. Then same applies to almost all shots. And in the end the last shot made with the 12-24. Terrible CA. One of the new features is the CA correction and this how they market it? So all in all I am very disappointed with the K-7 as the new flagship model. It's nothing more just the K20D with a class-closing (or how should I call the opposite of class leading? :D) HD video feature and tweaked features. The nice big red balloon seems to be popped out... But don't get me wrong... I still love the K20D and the Pentax Side of Life :) Regards, .timber -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
- Original Message - From: Bob Sullivan Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... timber, The rest of us have no idea where you are looking to form your opinions. Maybe you can back them up with something? Pictures, links, ??? Really. To me, it isn't missing anything crucial. A higher sync speed would have been nice, but it isn't a killer for me. Other than that, I kinda have to wait until I can get my hands on one to see if the AF is sufficiently fast for me. For the rest, it looks pretty darned good. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 07:10:28PM -0600, William Robb wrote: The difference between 1/180th and 1/250th flash synch is substantial when shooting a brightly backlit subject in bright daylight. A lot can happen in 0.0016 seconds. C'est what? For example, someone walking by at a brisk pace of 4mph will move an additional tenth of an inch. With a 1/250th sync, you could have caught them moving only 0.3 inches, but n, with Pentax's horrible 1/180th, we're stuck with a whole 0.4 inches of movement. Of course, with hummingbirds, it's even worse. Why, at 1/180th, the hummingbird's wings have gone through a whole 38% of a stroke. With 1/250th, that'd be reduced to a mere 28%. Okay, seriously -- the time difference just doesn't seem that much. (1/643 of a second *different*.) Neither does half a stop. I accept that there's some narrow cases where it'd help, but I can't see it as the huge deal that it seems to be to some folks. What am I missing? -- Matthew Miller mat...@mattdm.org http://mattdm.org/ The Definitive Pentax P-TTL Flash Model Guide: http://pttl.mattdm.org/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 10:51 PM, Matthew Miller mat...@mattdm.org wrote: On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 07:10:28PM -0600, William Robb wrote: The difference between 1/180th and 1/250th flash synch is substantial when shooting a brightly backlit subject in bright daylight. A lot can happen in 0.0016 seconds. C'est what? For example, someone walking by at a brisk pace of 4mph will move an additional tenth of an inch. With a 1/250th sync, you could have caught them moving only 0.3 inches, but n, with Pentax's horrible 1/180th, we're stuck with a whole 0.4 inches of movement. Of course, with hummingbirds, it's even worse. Why, at 1/180th, the hummingbird's wings have gone through a whole 38% of a stroke. With 1/250th, that'd be reduced to a mere 28%. Okay, seriously -- the time difference just doesn't seem that much. (1/643 of a second *different*.) Neither does half a stop. I accept that there's some narrow cases where it'd help, but I can't see it as the huge deal that it seems to be to some folks. What am I missing? -- Matthew Miller mat...@mattdm.org http://mattdm.org/ A half-stop is a huge deal when shooting outdoor with fill flash from a speedlight. You need that extra half-stop of aperture to cover up for the lack of power from the speedlight (vs the sun). It's one reason why the 6MP Nikon consumer bodies found their way into so many pro's bags, as they offered true sync speeds to 1/500 (or max shutter with non-dedicated flash) and High speed sync costs far too much power to be really useful outdoors. Frankly, a 1/4000 max shutter with 1/250 sync would have been a better compromise than 1/8000 and 1/180. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
You're missing the fact that the amount of flash exposure you can work into a shot is dependent only on the f stop. So if I shoot a backlit portrait outdoors at f5.6, 1.250th, I can fill flash in at that 5.6 value. If I'm forced to stop down to f6.7 because I can't go beyond 1/180th in shutter speed, I lose flash exposure and increase DOF. Ideally, I'd like to have flash synch up to 1/1000th, but that's complex and cost;y. And high-speed synch doesn't help much, because the flash power is greatly diminished by multiple firings. Paul On May 21, 2009, at 10:51 PM, Matthew Miller wrote: On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 07:10:28PM -0600, William Robb wrote: The difference between 1/180th and 1/250th flash synch is substantial when shooting a brightly backlit subject in bright daylight. A lot can happen in 0.0016 seconds. C'est what? For example, someone walking by at a brisk pace of 4mph will move an additional tenth of an inch. With a 1/250th sync, you could have caught them moving only 0.3 inches, but n, with Pentax's horrible 1/180th, we're stuck with a whole 0.4 inches of movement. Of course, with hummingbirds, it's even worse. Why, at 1/180th, the hummingbird's wings have gone through a whole 38% of a stroke. With 1/250th, that'd be reduced to a mere 28%. Okay, seriously -- the time difference just doesn't seem that much. (1/643 of a second *different*.) Neither does half a stop. I accept that there's some narrow cases where it'd help, but I can't see it as the huge deal that it seems to be to some folks. What am I missing? -- Matthew Miller mat...@mattdm.org http://mattdm.org/ The Definitive Pentax P-TTL Flash Model Guide: http://pttl.mattdm.org/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
This is catastrophic! My retirement plans were entirley based on selling backlit protraits of hummingbirds to microstock agencies!!! I've really had it with Pentax. There are lots of real pro systems that will give you perfect shots of everything at the push of a button, and I'm gonna get me one real soon. Right now I'm kinda busy fixing the light leaks in my Zenit E.. Original Message - From: Paul Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:09 PM Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... You're missing the fact that the amount of flash exposure you can work into a shot is dependent only on the f stop. So if I shoot a backlit portrait outdoors at f5.6, 1.250th, I can fill flash in at that 5.6 value. If I'm forced to stop down to f6.7 because I can't go beyond 1/180th in shutter speed, I lose flash exposure and increase DOF. Ideally, I'd like to have flash synch up to 1/1000th, but that's complex and cost;y. And high-speed synch doesn't help much, because the flash power is greatly diminished by multiple firings. Paul Of course, with hummingbirds, it's even worse. Why, at 1/180th, the hummingbird's wings have gone through a whole 38% of a stroke. With 1/250th, that'd be reduced to a mere 28%. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
John, This is a real issue for wedding shooters and anyone doing location/outdoor portraiture (or any other sort of mixed daylight/flash work, which Paul obviously does). Flash sync does matter and Pentax continues to offer the only camera in-class with a sub-1/250 sync (the 40D/50D, D300, E-3 and A700 all offer the better sync speed). -Adam On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 11:43 PM, John Poirier peartr...@shaw.ca wrote: This is catastrophic! My retirement plans were entirley based on selling backlit protraits of hummingbirds to microstock agencies!!! I've really had it with Pentax. There are lots of real pro systems that will give you perfect shots of everything at the push of a button, and I'm gonna get me one real soon. Right now I'm kinda busy fixing the light leaks in my Zenit E.. Original Message - From: Paul Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:09 PM Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... You're missing the fact that the amount of flash exposure you can work into a shot is dependent only on the f stop. So if I shoot a backlit portrait outdoors at f5.6, 1.250th, I can fill flash in at that 5.6 value. If I'm forced to stop down to f6.7 because I can't go beyond 1/180th in shutter speed, I lose flash exposure and increase DOF. Ideally, I'd like to have flash synch up to 1/1000th, but that's complex and cost;y. And high-speed synch doesn't help much, because the flash power is greatly diminished by multiple firings. Paul Of course, with hummingbirds, it's even worse. Why, at 1/180th, the hummingbird's wings have gone through a whole 38% of a stroke. With 1/250th, that'd be reduced to a mere 28%. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 11:09:00PM -0400, Paul Stenquist wrote: You're missing the fact that the amount of flash exposure you can work into a shot is dependent only on the f stop. So if I shoot a backlit portrait outdoors at f5.6, 1.250th, I can fill flash in at that 5.6 value. If I'm forced to stop down to f6.7 because I can't go beyond 1/180th in shutter speed, I lose flash exposure and increase DOF. But again, *half* a stop. Assuming the FA 77mm at 10 feet, the depth of field is going from about 13 to 15. (Right? Up past my bedtime, so feel free to check my math.) Two (and a half, actually -- rounding) inches isn't nothing, but it's still only two inches. Ideally, I'd like to have flash synch up to 1/1000th, but that's complex and cost;y. Right, I understand that going from 0.0056s to 0.0010s would be useful. That's two and a half stops better, and in the example above, you're shooting at f/2.8 and have more than halved your DOF, down to about 6. And high-speed synch doesn't help much, because the flash power is greatly diminished by multiple firings. So, improved noise performance should help just as well, right? I wouldn't be surprised at all if the sensor refinements gain you your half stop back right there. Optimistically, more. -- Matthew Miller mat...@mattdm.org http://mattdm.org/ The Definitive Pentax P-TTL Flash Model Guide: http://pttl.mattdm.org/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
- Original Message - From: Matthew Miller Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... Okay, seriously -- the time difference just doesn't seem that much. (1/643 of a second *different*.) Neither does half a stop. I accept that there's some narrow cases where it'd help, but I can't see it as the huge deal that it seems to be to some folks. What am I missing? Half a stop is quite a bit of flash output. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
- Original Message - From: John Poirier Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... This is catastrophic! My retirement plans were entirley based on selling backlit protraits of hummingbirds to microstock agencies!!! I've really had it with Pentax. There are lots of real pro systems that will give you perfect shots of everything at the push of a button, and I'm gonna get me one real soon. Right now I'm kinda busy fixing the light leaks in my Zenit Weren't you going to go back to lurking? VW -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
Yes, I was going to slip quietly away, but I made the mistake of looking at one last message. That combined with a slow evening and two near-lethal martinis from my darling wife led me astray. Normally I'm the soul of discretion and moderation, and would never venture to intrude on the proceeedings of this august group. (Actually, I realy enjoy the PDMl- have been a lurker since the mid-nineties, but am usually too tied up with other stuff to participate consistently.) Cheers . - Original Message - From: William Robb war...@gmail.com To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 9:20 PM Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... - Original Message - From: John Poirier Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... This is catastrophic! My retirement plans were entirley based on selling backlit protraits of hummingbirds to microstock agencies!!! I've really had it with Pentax. There are lots of real pro systems that will give you perfect shots of everything at the push of a button, and I'm gonna get me one real soon. Right now I'm kinda busy fixing the light leaks in my Zenit Weren't you going to go back to lurking? VW -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
Mmm 5dmk2 anyone? Yes, 1/200 only (which really doesn't excuse Pentax, just another datapoint). On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 5:48 AM, Adam Maas a...@mawz.ca wrote: John, Flash sync does matter and Pentax continues to offer the only camera in-class with a sub-1/250 sync (the 40D/50D, D300, E-3 and A700 all offer the better sync speed). -Adam -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille -- Photo: K10D,Z1,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ... Thinkpad: X23+UB,X60+UB Programing: D7 user (trying out D2007) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
- Original Message - From: John Poirier Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... Yes, I was going to slip quietly away, but I made the mistake of looking at one last message. That combined with a slow evening and two near-lethal martinis from my darling wife led me astray. Normally I'm the soul of discretion and moderation, and would never venture to intrude on the proceeedings of this august group. (Actually, I realy enjoy the PDMl- have been a lurker since the mid-nineties, but am usually too tied up with other stuff to participate consistently.) jeeze, I hope you didn't take that personally or anything. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
Well, William, what does the VW stand for? Cheers, Christine - Original Message - From: William Robb war...@gmail.com To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 12:48 AM Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... - Original Message - From: John Poirier Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... Yes, I was going to slip quietly away, but I made the mistake of looking at one last message. That combined with a slow evening and two near-lethal martinis from my darling wife led me astray. Normally I'm the soul of discretion and moderation, and would never venture to intrude on the proceeedings of this august group. (Actually, I realy enjoy the PDMl- have been a lurker since the mid-nineties, but am usually too tied up with other stuff to participate consistently.) jeeze, I hope you didn't take that personally or anything. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Oh another K-7 thread...
On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 08:51:16PM -0600, William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: Bob Sullivan Subject: Re: Oh another K-7 thread... timber, The rest of us have no idea where you are looking to form your opinions. Maybe you can back them up with something? Pictures, links, ??? Really. To me, it isn't missing anything crucial. A higher sync speed would have been nice, but it isn't a killer for me. Other than that, I kinda have to wait until I can get my hands on one to see if the AF is sufficiently fast for me. For the rest, it looks pretty darned good. William Robb Looks better than pretty darned good to me - unless there are some really strong negative reports from the GFM crowd I'll be buying one. Sure, I'd like the faster sync speed. But the lack of it (and the slower frame rate) didn't tempt me back to using my PZ-1p. Most of the time high-speed sync serves well enough, although when you are using trailing-curtain sync I believe you don't even get 1/180 of a second (the *ist-D dropped back to 1/60; I don't know what later bodies did). The 1/8000 second is very welcome for those of us trying to use fast lenses in California sun; I don't have ND filters for all my f/2.8 lenses (or for the 250-600), and sometimes the minimal depth of field of a fast lens is what you want. In any case, changing shutter speed is a lot more convenient than playing with filters. The K10D (1/4000 top speed; ISO 100) is OK most of the time; the *ist-D (minimum ISO 200) was marginal. The frame rate is quite a big deal for me, too. I really liked the responsiveness of the PZ-1p (4+fps), even though I mostly used it in single-frame mode; the faster frame rate results in a shorter viewfinder blackout time, and the camera is ready for another shot sooner; I occasionally find myself trying to take the next shot before the (3fps) K10D is ready. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
