Re: monitor shopping
Tanya, If you can get me the same deal, I'll take two! Thanks for chiming in on this. The U2410 was one of the top 5 professional monitors on cnet.com - which was my first stop on the way down this rabbit hole... It's still in the running... Good to hear that you like it! -c On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 1:17 AM, Tanya Love tanyal...@bigpond.com wrote: Ok, so I was lucky enough to attend a workshop with Les Walkling who is a really well-known Colour Management guru in Australia (see here: http://www.leswalkling.com/ ). He has close ties with Eizo and so obviously advocates their monitors. However, I didn't have $5-$6k to spend on one (and I needed two!) . I asked him to recommend something that is more within the average pro photographers reach, and he recommended either NEC or Dell. He told me the specific models, but I can't remember them. I will tell you though that the Dell he recommended has been superseded by another model, which is what I ended up with - the U2410. I have two of them set up, side by side, and they KICK ARSE! I also have a hood on them and calibrate them at least once a month with the Xrite i1 system that Les also recommended. I will also tell you a little secret - I only paid for one of them! Dell mucked up and sent us two, a week apart, as per my request but we were only ever invoiced for one. At the same time, there was a stack of people posting on www.wirlpool.net.au (one of my favourite sites for news on all things geeky!) about $6000 laptops that they had ordered/received and never paid for! Of course, those guys weren't revealing their true identities to anyone as Dell has staff who work on the Whirlpool site, but every so often another one crops up, and it seems to me that Dell must be losing a bucketload of $$$ due to their cross-communications and poor recordkeeping. Not that I am complaining! :) Anyways, I love my U2410s, and they were retailing at the time (about 6 months ago) for aud$799, so pretty decently priced for what they are too. The first few batches came out of the factory with issues of a green or red glow over certain areas of the screen, but I have had none of that and the complaints about them have all but disappeared now, and I believe that Dell was replacing them free of charge anyways. They also come with a full calibration report out of the box, which is a nice touch. You can read about them here: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1256560 And if you go here, there are all manner of discussions about great monitors - these guys are all mainly gamers though, so you'll need to take only what is relevant to your own needs when reading: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum/129 Hope that helps! Tan. :) Tanya Love Photographer www.lovebytes.com.au m: 0458 006 740 -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Christine Nielsen Sent: Sunday, 3 October 2010 12:56 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: monitor shopping Hi all, I've decided to quit hunching over my laptop get a real monitor, to be properly calibrated, just like all the cool kids have. Not only are my back eyes killing me, but I think I would stand a better chance of getting some images out of my hard drive and onto paper if I could get a reliable handle on the color management thing. I've done some research, and though I still feel a bit out of my depth on this topic, my initial inclination is toward a NEC P221W http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=NavBarA=getItemDetailQ=; sku=602072is=REGsi=rev#anchorToReadReviews The price is right, and it comes well-recommended. Anyone care to disabuse me of this notion? What am I missing by not going with a $1000+ model, like a higher-end NEC, or Apple Cinema display, or Dell Ultra Sharp...? Are there others I should consider? (I think we can safely leave Eizo out of the discussion for now...) I'd also welcome any suggestions for other resources (online or in print) to educate myself better on the whole topic. Thanks in advance, -c ps: thank you to Fernando for raising the calibration question in a recent thread... I have taken notes... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: monitor shopping
Thanks, Bob. I really appreciate you taking the time to answer -- I'm finding it quite challenging to get a grip on the many facets of color management. So, my intended use is also for photoshop and printing, with one caveat: I have no desire to do my own printing (my head hurts enough as it is). The goal is come up with a system whereby I can reliably send out files to be printed, with minimal frustration. I am a bit reluctant to try to future proof my decision now, especially if my current set-up won't benefit from the DisplayPort upgrade. I figure by the time the rest of my equipment is capable, the corresponding monitors should be more mainstream affordable than they are now, anyway. But, I haven't ruled anything out yet. One thing that seems to make sense from what I've been reading, is to go with the bundled monitor/calibration system, which is also available for the P221... Thanks again, -c On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 10:03 PM, Bob Rapp bobrap...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Christine, In my original post, I made some basic assumptions that my not be important for your use. My usage would be strictly for photoshop and printing. The gamut of my printer is much larger that the sRGB color space. If your use does not involve printing and is used solely as a display, any monitor would work. These new monitors allow setting the illumination down to a level suitable for proofing images in Photoshop. I presently have a Samsung 2233 that is usable at lower levels - my Dell 2207 is not. Some of the newer notebook computers support DisplayPort. I do not know if they support 10-bit color. In my case, I would have to purchase a new card for my tower. With the DisplayPort, the PA241 monitor's internal 14-bit LUT are adjusted during calibration. The P221 relies on the video card's 8-bit LUT. CS4 and 5 support 10-bit monitor color output. The Macbook Pro does have a mini DisplayPort video but does not support 10-bit color - future models may as these 10-bit monitors become more main-stream. It still will program the monitor during calibration. Prior to making your decision, Google each of the monitors and look for calibration and viewing issues. I hope this helps. I will be travelling and have unsubscribed for now. Contact me directly if you have any other questions. Bob - Original Message - From: Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 7:30 PM Subject: Re: monitor shopping Ok, Bob I've been wrestling with your suggestion all day. And though I'm still grappling with the ins outs of 8 vs 10 bit color the DisplayPort technology, the big question I have is this: Is having the DisplayPort any use to me right now? Using my camera (k7), computer (macbook pro) software (cs4), will the NEC PA series offer me anything over the P221W, as far as how it deals with color? Thanks for your input, -c On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Bob Rapp bobrap...@gmail.com wrote: Christine, Choice of the NEC models should hinge on the intended use. DisplayPort is the new thing and some video card manufacturers support it and its use of 10-bit color vs. 8-bit color with the other interfaces. To future-proof your decision, the NEC PA series with colorimeter and software would be a costly but worthwhile decision. Bob - Original Message - From: Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 7:51 AM Subject: Re: monitor shopping Yes, NEC appears to have some well-regarded models out right now... I found two in this top 5 list from cnet.com http://reviews.cnet.com/2795-3174_7-450.html?tag=centerColumnArea1.2 Decisions, decisions... :) -c On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 5:43 PM, eckinator eckina...@gmail.com wrote: No knowledge of this particular model but in my job before last, I purchased numerous different NEC displays for the marketing dept. and they were always quite to very much pleased with them. NEC as a brand was definitely a good choice during that time. Ecke 2010/10/2 Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net: Hi all, I've decided to quit hunching over my laptop get a real monitor, to be properly calibrated, just like all the cool kids have. Not only are my back eyes killing me, but I think I would stand a better chance of getting some images out of my hard drive and onto paper if I could get a reliable handle on the color management thing. I've done some research, and though I still feel a bit out of my depth on this topic, my initial inclination is toward a NEC P221W http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=NavBarA=getItemDetailQ=sku=602072is=REGsi=rev#anchorToReadReviews The price is right, and it comes well-recommended. Anyone care to disabuse me of this notion? What am I missing by not going with a $1000+ model, like a higher-end NEC, or Apple Cinema display, or Dell
Re: monitor shopping
but if you could get the MacBook Pro to use the LUT (basically doing the calibration in the display versus by changing the color values sent to the display), you'd be about as well off as sending 10-bit software-calibrated signals; i've no idea if MacBook Pros can do this, though -- Hmmm... I have no idea either. Maybe I'll go play Stump the Genius at the Apple store today... :) Thanks, Steve. -c -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: monitor shopping
Jumping into this kind of late ... Is anyone using a HDTV as a monitor? Pros/cons with regard to calibration, i.e. will the calibration dohickeys work with them? I'm looking at a Samsung P2770HD LCD monitor that includes an ATSC tuner as a possible replacement for one of my old IBM P260 CRTs, but I'm wondering if I might do as well to just get an LCD TV? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: monitor shopping
On 2010-10-04 22:42, John Sessoms wrote: Jumping into this kind of late ... Is anyone using a HDTV as a monitor? Pros/cons with regard to calibration, i.e. will the calibration dohickeys work with them? I'm looking at a Samsung P2770HD LCD monitor that includes an ATSC tuner as a possible replacement for one of my old IBM P260 CRTs, but I'm wondering if I might do as well to just get an LCD TV? Yes, I'm using a Panasonic, couldn't tell you the model number, but it's a pretty plain-Jane model, no 120Hz, much less 240Hz, no LED backlighting. But it /rocks/ as a photo display. As I mentioned a couple of days ago, the gamut seems larger than my HP LP2475w IPS monitor and the blacks are much deeper than on the HP. And the 40 LCD TV cost me about the same as the 24 HP. -- Thanks, DougF (KG4LMZ) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: monitor shopping
Ok, so I was lucky enough to attend a workshop with Les Walkling who is a really well-known Colour Management guru in Australia (see here: http://www.leswalkling.com/ ). He has close ties with Eizo and so obviously advocates their monitors. However, I didn't have $5-$6k to spend on one (and I needed two!) . I asked him to recommend something that is more within the average pro photographers reach, and he recommended either NEC or Dell. He told me the specific models, but I can't remember them. I will tell you though that the Dell he recommended has been superseded by another model, which is what I ended up with - the U2410. I have two of them set up, side by side, and they KICK ARSE! I also have a hood on them and calibrate them at least once a month with the Xrite i1 system that Les also recommended. I will also tell you a little secret - I only paid for one of them! Dell mucked up and sent us two, a week apart, as per my request but we were only ever invoiced for one. At the same time, there was a stack of people posting on www.wirlpool.net.au (one of my favourite sites for news on all things geeky!) about $6000 laptops that they had ordered/received and never paid for! Of course, those guys weren't revealing their true identities to anyone as Dell has staff who work on the Whirlpool site, but every so often another one crops up, and it seems to me that Dell must be losing a bucketload of $$$ due to their cross-communications and poor recordkeeping. Not that I am complaining! :) Anyways, I love my U2410s, and they were retailing at the time (about 6 months ago) for aud$799, so pretty decently priced for what they are too. The first few batches came out of the factory with issues of a green or red glow over certain areas of the screen, but I have had none of that and the complaints about them have all but disappeared now, and I believe that Dell was replacing them free of charge anyways. They also come with a full calibration report out of the box, which is a nice touch. You can read about them here: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1256560 And if you go here, there are all manner of discussions about great monitors - these guys are all mainly gamers though, so you'll need to take only what is relevant to your own needs when reading: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum/129 Hope that helps! Tan. :) Tanya Love Photographer www.lovebytes.com.au m: 0458 006 740 -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Christine Nielsen Sent: Sunday, 3 October 2010 12:56 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: monitor shopping Hi all, I've decided to quit hunching over my laptop get a real monitor, to be properly calibrated, just like all the cool kids have. Not only are my back eyes killing me, but I think I would stand a better chance of getting some images out of my hard drive and onto paper if I could get a reliable handle on the color management thing. I've done some research, and though I still feel a bit out of my depth on this topic, my initial inclination is toward a NEC P221W http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=NavBarA=getItemDetailQ=; sku=602072is=REGsi=rev#anchorToReadReviews The price is right, and it comes well-recommended. Anyone care to disabuse me of this notion? What am I missing by not going with a $1000+ model, like a higher-end NEC, or Apple Cinema display, or Dell Ultra Sharp...? Are there others I should consider? (I think we can safely leave Eizo out of the discussion for now...) I'd also welcome any suggestions for other resources (online or in print) to educate myself better on the whole topic. Thanks in advance, -c ps: thank you to Fernando for raising the calibration question in a recent thread... I have taken notes... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: monitor shopping
Thanks, Bob -- I'll check into that model too, especially since I'll need the calibrating/profiling set-up as well. On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 3:17 PM, Bob Rapp bobrap...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Christine, The NEC P221 has been on my radar for some time. It should calibrate just fine. My other option would be to spring for the NEC PA241W-BK-SV, which includes profiling software and puck. The software programs the monitor's internal LTU. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: monitor shopping
Yes, NEC appears to have some well-regarded models out right now... I found two in this top 5 list from cnet.com http://reviews.cnet.com/2795-3174_7-450.html?tag=centerColumnArea1.2 Decisions, decisions... :) -c On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 5:43 PM, eckinator eckina...@gmail.com wrote: No knowledge of this particular model but in my job before last, I purchased numerous different NEC displays for the marketing dept. and they were always quite to very much pleased with them. NEC as a brand was definitely a good choice during that time. Ecke 2010/10/2 Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net: Hi all, I've decided to quit hunching over my laptop get a real monitor, to be properly calibrated, just like all the cool kids have. Not only are my back eyes killing me, but I think I would stand a better chance of getting some images out of my hard drive and onto paper if I could get a reliable handle on the color management thing. I've done some research, and though I still feel a bit out of my depth on this topic, my initial inclination is toward a NEC P221W http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=NavBarA=getItemDetailQ=sku=602072is=REGsi=rev#anchorToReadReviews The price is right, and it comes well-recommended. Anyone care to disabuse me of this notion? What am I missing by not going with a $1000+ model, like a higher-end NEC, or Apple Cinema display, or Dell Ultra Sharp...? Are there others I should consider? (I think we can safely leave Eizo out of the discussion for now...) I'd also welcome any suggestions for other resources (online or in print) to educate myself better on the whole topic. Thanks in advance, -c ps: thank you to Fernando for raising the calibration question in a recent thread... I have taken notes... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: monitor shopping
Christine, Choice of the NEC models should hinge on the intended use. DisplayPort is the new thing and some video card manufacturers support it and its use of 10-bit color vs. 8-bit color with the other interfaces. To future-proof your decision, the NEC PA series with colorimeter and software would be a costly but worthwhile decision. Bob - Original Message - From: Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 7:51 AM Subject: Re: monitor shopping Yes, NEC appears to have some well-regarded models out right now... I found two in this top 5 list from cnet.com http://reviews.cnet.com/2795-3174_7-450.html?tag=centerColumnArea1.2 Decisions, decisions... :) -c On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 5:43 PM, eckinator eckina...@gmail.com wrote: No knowledge of this particular model but in my job before last, I purchased numerous different NEC displays for the marketing dept. and they were always quite to very much pleased with them. NEC as a brand was definitely a good choice during that time. Ecke 2010/10/2 Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net: Hi all, I've decided to quit hunching over my laptop get a real monitor, to be properly calibrated, just like all the cool kids have. Not only are my back eyes killing me, but I think I would stand a better chance of getting some images out of my hard drive and onto paper if I could get a reliable handle on the color management thing. I've done some research, and though I still feel a bit out of my depth on this topic, my initial inclination is toward a NEC P221W http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=NavBarA=getItemDetailQ=sku=602072is=REGsi=rev#anchorToReadReviews The price is right, and it comes well-recommended. Anyone care to disabuse me of this notion? What am I missing by not going with a $1000+ model, like a higher-end NEC, or Apple Cinema display, or Dell Ultra Sharp...? Are there others I should consider? (I think we can safely leave Eizo out of the discussion for now...) I'd also welcome any suggestions for other resources (online or in print) to educate myself better on the whole topic. Thanks in advance, -c ps: thank you to Fernando for raising the calibration question in a recent thread... I have taken notes... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: monitor shopping
Christine Nielsen wrote: Sent: 02 October 2010 15:56 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: monitor shopping Hi all, I've decided to quit hunching over my laptop get a real monitor, to be properly calibrated, just like all the cool kids have. Not only are my back eyes killing me, but I think I would stand a better chance of getting some images out of my hard drive and onto paper if I could get a reliable handle on the color management thing. I've done some research, and though I still feel a bit out of my depth on this topic, my initial inclination is toward a NEC P221W http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=NavBarA=getItemDetai lQ=sku=602072is=REGsi=rev#anchorToReadReviews The price is right, and it comes well-recommended. Anyone care to disabuse me of this notion? What am I missing by not going with a $1000+ model, like a higher-end NEC, or Apple Cinema display, or Dell Ultra Sharp...? Are there others I should consider? (I think we can safely leave Eizo out of the discussion for now...) I'd also welcome any suggestions for other resources (online or in print) to educate myself better on the whole topic. Thanks in advance, -c ps: thank you to Fernando for raising the calibration question in a recent thread... I have taken notes... Hi Christine. I've got an NEC P221W connected to my desktop PC and I'm very happy with it indeed. It works well in my calibrated workflow (I use a Spyder 3 for the monitor). Cheers, Chris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: monitor shopping
On 2010-10-02 10:56, Christine Nielsen wrote: I've decided to quit hunching over my laptop get a real monitor, to be properly calibrated, just like all the cool kids have. Not only are my back eyes killing me, but I think I would stand a better chance of getting some images out of my hard drive and onto paper if I could get a reliable handle on the color management thing. Don't overlook televisions. I have a HP LP2475w 24 1920 x 1200 IPS monitor for photo work and a couple of TFTs for regular work on my computers. The HP cost me about US$ 600 a year or so ago. They've since replaced it with another model (I can't remember what it is) that's about US$ 400 shipped. They're excellent monitors with good gamut. /Much/ better than the TFT monitors for photo work. Then a few months ago I inherited a home theater PC that a friend was trying to build and having trouble with. I got it working and hooked it up to my main A/V system. It's driving a run-of-the-mill 40 LCD TV and the colors are *awesome*. The blacks, for example, are far deeper than even on the HP, and the overall gamut seems to be larger. That said, I haven't calibrated it yet. But, take a look at some of the LCD TVs before settling on a $1000 monitor. If my TV is any guide, you can get great performance for photos at much lower price points in TVs than in computer monitors. -- Thanks, DougF (KG4LMZ) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: monitor shopping
Ah, very interesting, Doug! It so happens my husband has a tv set-up as his monitor. He bought a Toshiba 32RV525RZ last year -- he likes the wide screen for his work. It's an LCD panel... though I haven't been able to figure out exactly which type. Only a year old, but already discontinued... the new 40 model appears to have an S-PVA panel... I had dismissed his tv/monitor out of hand, as just a dumb television, good enough for bit-twiddling, but not for my -ahem - art. ;) Now, I'm having a second look... Thanks for the suggestion. -c On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 1:50 PM, Doug Franklin jehosep...@mindspring.com wrote: On 2010-10-02 10:56, Christine Nielsen wrote: I've decided to quit hunching over my laptop get a real monitor, to be properly calibrated, just like all the cool kids have. Not only are my back eyes killing me, but I think I would stand a better chance of getting some images out of my hard drive and onto paper if I could get a reliable handle on the color management thing. Don't overlook televisions. I have a HP LP2475w 24 1920 x 1200 IPS monitor for photo work and a couple of TFTs for regular work on my computers. The HP cost me about US$ 600 a year or so ago. They've since replaced it with another model (I can't remember what it is) that's about US$ 400 shipped. They're excellent monitors with good gamut. /Much/ better than the TFT monitors for photo work. Then a few months ago I inherited a home theater PC that a friend was trying to build and having trouble with. I got it working and hooked it up to my main A/V system. It's driving a run-of-the-mill 40 LCD TV and the colors are *awesome*. The blacks, for example, are far deeper than even on the HP, and the overall gamut seems to be larger. That said, I haven't calibrated it yet. But, take a look at some of the LCD TVs before settling on a $1000 monitor. If my TV is any guide, you can get great performance for photos at much lower price points in TVs than in computer monitors. -- Thanks, DougF (KG4LMZ) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: monitor shopping
On 2010-10-03 11:50 , Doug Franklin wrote: On 2010-10-02 10:56, Christine Nielsen wrote: I've decided to quit hunching over my laptop get a real monitor, to be properly calibrated, just like all the cool kids have. Not only are my back eyes killing me, but I think I would stand a better chance of getting some images out of my hard drive and onto paper if I could get a reliable handle on the color management thing. Don't overlook televisions. I have a HP LP2475w 24 1920 x 1200 IPS monitor for photo work and a couple of TFTs for regular work on my computers. The HP cost me about US$ 600 a year or so ago. They've since replaced it with another model (I can't remember what it is) that's about US$ 400 shipped. They're excellent monitors with good gamut. /Much/ better than the TFT monitors for photo work. just a note to keep the terminology on course -- your IPS monitor is a TFT also, you are probably meaning to distinguish your two lower-end TN_ panels from your higher-end IPS panel Then a few months ago I inherited a home theater PC that a friend was trying to build and having trouble with. I got it working and hooked it up to my main A/V system. It's driving a run-of-the-mill 40 LCD TV and the colors are *awesome*. The blacks, for example, are far deeper than even on the HP, and the overall gamut seems to be larger. That said, I haven't calibrated it yet. TVs are generally TN panels because TN is faster (more suitable for moving images) and cheaper; if you are on-center and fairly distant from a 40 panel, then the side-to-side variation in color won't have a big impact on your viewing, but if several people are watching, or if you are close (so you view the edges at a much different angle from the center) then TN's angle-of-view limitations will impact you beyond that i don't feel i know enough to express more than caution about the gamut and the default settings of the TV; here is an fascinating article that i haven't yet had the patience to fully digest; among other things, though, it focuses on sRGB since it is essentially the gamut video is made for, where many photographers (and their software) are using wider gamuts: http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/display_myths_shattered -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: monitor shopping
On 2010-10-03 14:56, steve harley wrote: just a note to keep the terminology on course -- your IPS monitor is a TFT also, you are probably meaning to distinguish your two lower-end TN_ panels from your higher-end IPS panel Sorry, you are correct, and I did mistype that. -- Thanks, DougF (KG4LMZ) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: monitor shopping
Ok, Bob I've been wrestling with your suggestion all day. And though I'm still grappling with the ins outs of 8 vs 10 bit color the DisplayPort technology, the big question I have is this: Is having the DisplayPort any use to me right now? Using my camera (k7), computer (macbook pro) software (cs4), will the NEC PA series offer me anything over the P221W, as far as how it deals with color? Thanks for your input, -c On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Bob Rapp bobrap...@gmail.com wrote: Christine, Choice of the NEC models should hinge on the intended use. DisplayPort is the new thing and some video card manufacturers support it and its use of 10-bit color vs. 8-bit color with the other interfaces. To future-proof your decision, the NEC PA series with colorimeter and software would be a costly but worthwhile decision. Bob - Original Message - From: Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 7:51 AM Subject: Re: monitor shopping Yes, NEC appears to have some well-regarded models out right now... I found two in this top 5 list from cnet.com http://reviews.cnet.com/2795-3174_7-450.html?tag=centerColumnArea1.2 Decisions, decisions... :) -c On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 5:43 PM, eckinator eckina...@gmail.com wrote: No knowledge of this particular model but in my job before last, I purchased numerous different NEC displays for the marketing dept. and they were always quite to very much pleased with them. NEC as a brand was definitely a good choice during that time. Ecke 2010/10/2 Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net: Hi all, I've decided to quit hunching over my laptop get a real monitor, to be properly calibrated, just like all the cool kids have. Not only are my back eyes killing me, but I think I would stand a better chance of getting some images out of my hard drive and onto paper if I could get a reliable handle on the color management thing. I've done some research, and though I still feel a bit out of my depth on this topic, my initial inclination is toward a NEC P221W http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=NavBarA=getItemDetailQ=sku=602072is=REGsi=rev#anchorToReadReviews The price is right, and it comes well-recommended. Anyone care to disabuse me of this notion? What am I missing by not going with a $1000+ model, like a higher-end NEC, or Apple Cinema display, or Dell Ultra Sharp...? Are there others I should consider? (I think we can safely leave Eizo out of the discussion for now...) I'd also welcome any suggestions for other resources (online or in print) to educate myself better on the whole topic. Thanks in advance, -c ps: thank you to Fernando for raising the calibration question in a recent thread... I have taken notes... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: monitor shopping
Hi Christine, In my original post, I made some basic assumptions that my not be important for your use. My usage would be strictly for photoshop and printing. The gamut of my printer is much larger that the sRGB color space. If your use does not involve printing and is used solely as a display, any monitor would work. These new monitors allow setting the illumination down to a level suitable for proofing images in Photoshop. I presently have a Samsung 2233 that is usable at lower levels - my Dell 2207 is not. Some of the newer notebook computers support DisplayPort. I do not know if they support 10-bit color. In my case, I would have to purchase a new card for my tower. With the DisplayPort, the PA241 monitor's internal 14-bit LUT are adjusted during calibration. The P221 relies on the video card's 8-bit LUT. CS4 and 5 support 10-bit monitor color output. The Macbook Pro does have a mini DisplayPort video but does not support 10-bit color - future models may as these 10-bit monitors become more main-stream. It still will program the monitor during calibration. Prior to making your decision, Google each of the monitors and look for calibration and viewing issues. I hope this helps. I will be travelling and have unsubscribed for now. Contact me directly if you have any other questions. Bob - Original Message - From: Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 7:30 PM Subject: Re: monitor shopping Ok, Bob I've been wrestling with your suggestion all day. And though I'm still grappling with the ins outs of 8 vs 10 bit color the DisplayPort technology, the big question I have is this: Is having the DisplayPort any use to me right now? Using my camera (k7), computer (macbook pro) software (cs4), will the NEC PA series offer me anything over the P221W, as far as how it deals with color? Thanks for your input, -c On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Bob Rapp bobrap...@gmail.com wrote: Christine, Choice of the NEC models should hinge on the intended use. DisplayPort is the new thing and some video card manufacturers support it and its use of 10-bit color vs. 8-bit color with the other interfaces. To future-proof your decision, the NEC PA series with colorimeter and software would be a costly but worthwhile decision. Bob - Original Message - From: Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 7:51 AM Subject: Re: monitor shopping Yes, NEC appears to have some well-regarded models out right now... I found two in this top 5 list from cnet.com http://reviews.cnet.com/2795-3174_7-450.html?tag=centerColumnArea1.2 Decisions, decisions... :) -c On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 5:43 PM, eckinator eckina...@gmail.com wrote: No knowledge of this particular model but in my job before last, I purchased numerous different NEC displays for the marketing dept. and they were always quite to very much pleased with them. NEC as a brand was definitely a good choice during that time. Ecke 2010/10/2 Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net: Hi all, I've decided to quit hunching over my laptop get a real monitor, to be properly calibrated, just like all the cool kids have. Not only are my back eyes killing me, but I think I would stand a better chance of getting some images out of my hard drive and onto paper if I could get a reliable handle on the color management thing. I've done some research, and though I still feel a bit out of my depth on this topic, my initial inclination is toward a NEC P221W http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=NavBarA=getItemDetailQ=sku=602072is=REGsi=rev#anchorToReadReviews The price is right, and it comes well-recommended. Anyone care to disabuse me of this notion? What am I missing by not going with a $1000+ model, like a higher-end NEC, or Apple Cinema display, or Dell Ultra Sharp...? Are there others I should consider? (I think we can safely leave Eizo out of the discussion for now...) I'd also welcome any suggestions for other resources (online or in print) to educate myself better on the whole topic. Thanks in advance, -c ps: thank you to Fernando for raising the calibration question in a recent thread... I have taken notes... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo
Re: monitor shopping
On 2010-10-03 20:03 , Bob Rapp wrote: Some of the newer notebook computers support DisplayPort. I do not know if they support 10-bit color. i'm pretty sure the MacBook Pros, though all the current ones use DisplayPort (the mini version), send only 8-bit color to the display but if you could get the MacBook Pro to use the LUT (basically doing the calibration in the display versus by changing the color values sent to the display), you'd be about as well off as sending 10-bit software-calibrated signals; i've no idea if MacBook Pros can do this, though -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: monitor shopping
Christine Nielsen wrote: Hi all, I've decided to quit hunching over my laptop get a real monitor, to be properly calibrated, just like all the cool kids have. Not only are my back eyes killing me, but I think I would stand a better chance of getting some images out of my hard drive and onto paper if I could get a reliable handle on the color management thing. I've done some research, and though I still feel a bit out of my depth on this topic, my initial inclination is toward a NEC P221W http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=NavBarA=getItemDetailQ=sku=602072is=REGsi=rev#anchorToReadReviews The price is right, and it comes well-recommended. Anyone care to disabuse me of this notion? What am I missing by not going with a $1000+ model, like a higher-end NEC, or Apple Cinema display, or Dell Ultra Sharp...? Are there others I should consider? (I think we can safely leave Eizo out of the discussion for now...) Looks good. According to the TFT Central database it uses a Samsung S-PVA panel, which should be excellent. What you're mainly missing with the more expensive models would be size and extra features (USB connections, video input, built-in speakers, etc.) Here's the CNET review: http://reviews.cnet.com/lcd-monitors/nec-multisync-p221w/4505-3174_7-33416987.html#reviewPage1 TFT Central is the best source of information I've found: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/ I have a blog post on picking a computer monitor: http://www.robertstech.com/blog/?p=31 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: monitor shopping
Thanks, Mark! I first stumbled on that model over at cnet, but I've not been to TFTCentral before. Great info on your page, too -- much appreciated! -c On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 11:40 AM, Mark Roberts m...@robertstech.com wrote: Christine Nielsen wrote: Hi all, I've decided to quit hunching over my laptop get a real monitor, to be properly calibrated, just like all the cool kids have. Not only are my back eyes killing me, but I think I would stand a better chance of getting some images out of my hard drive and onto paper if I could get a reliable handle on the color management thing. I've done some research, and though I still feel a bit out of my depth on this topic, my initial inclination is toward a NEC P221W http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=NavBarA=getItemDetailQ=sku=602072is=REGsi=rev#anchorToReadReviews The price is right, and it comes well-recommended. Anyone care to disabuse me of this notion? What am I missing by not going with a $1000+ model, like a higher-end NEC, or Apple Cinema display, or Dell Ultra Sharp...? Are there others I should consider? (I think we can safely leave Eizo out of the discussion for now...) Looks good. According to the TFT Central database it uses a Samsung S-PVA panel, which should be excellent. What you're mainly missing with the more expensive models would be size and extra features (USB connections, video input, built-in speakers, etc.) Here's the CNET review: http://reviews.cnet.com/lcd-monitors/nec-multisync-p221w/4505-3174_7-33416987.html#reviewPage1 TFT Central is the best source of information I've found: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/ I have a blog post on picking a computer monitor: http://www.robertstech.com/blog/?p=31 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: monitor shopping
Hi Christine, The NEC P221 has been on my radar for some time. It should calibrate just fine. My other option would be to spring for the NEC PA241W-BK-SV, which includes profiling software and puck. The software programs the monitor's internal LTU. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: monitor shopping
No knowledge of this particular model but in my job before last, I purchased numerous different NEC displays for the marketing dept. and they were always quite to very much pleased with them. NEC as a brand was definitely a good choice during that time. Ecke 2010/10/2 Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net: Hi all, I've decided to quit hunching over my laptop get a real monitor, to be properly calibrated, just like all the cool kids have. Not only are my back eyes killing me, but I think I would stand a better chance of getting some images out of my hard drive and onto paper if I could get a reliable handle on the color management thing. I've done some research, and though I still feel a bit out of my depth on this topic, my initial inclination is toward a NEC P221W http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=NavBarA=getItemDetailQ=sku=602072is=REGsi=rev#anchorToReadReviews The price is right, and it comes well-recommended. Anyone care to disabuse me of this notion? What am I missing by not going with a $1000+ model, like a higher-end NEC, or Apple Cinema display, or Dell Ultra Sharp...? Are there others I should consider? (I think we can safely leave Eizo out of the discussion for now...) I'd also welcome any suggestions for other resources (online or in print) to educate myself better on the whole topic. Thanks in advance, -c ps: thank you to Fernando for raising the calibration question in a recent thread... I have taken notes... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
