[HACKERS] FreeOSZoo project announcement
Dear friends, This is an off-topic message about a new project called FreeOSZoo involving two pgAdmin member, Jean-Michel and Raphaël. You can visit our site on: http://www.freeoszoo.org We provide packages for QEMU, a fast PC emulator for GNU/Linux, Win32 and Mac OS X. The packages and instructions can be found on the downloading page: http://www.freeoszoo.org/download.php In the next months, the project will allow QEMU PC emulator to connect to the FreeOSZoo library of free operating systems, download and use a guest Free Operating System in a matter of minutes. This way, we hope to be able to convince people that are not aware of the existence of Free Software to migrate to Free tools, without leaving their usual environment and Operating System. QEMU presently has a working but limited GUI. If anyone of you is willing to work on a multi-platform GUI for QEMU, your help is kindly welcome. Kindest regards, FreeOSZoo Team ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 8: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] Rough draft for Unicode-aware UPPER()/LOWER()/INITCAP()
Le jeudi 13 Mai 2004 04:42, Tom Lane a crit : I got tired of reading complaints about how upper/lower don't work with Unicode, so I went and prototyped a solution. The attached code uses the C99-standard functions mbstowcs and wcstombs to convert to and from a wchar_t[] representation that can be fed to the also-C99 functions towupper, towlower, etc. These are really good news, thanks. Jean-Michel Pour ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [pgsql-advocacy] [HACKERS] What can we learn from MySQL?
Dear Tim, These are execellent proposals. My only remark would be to build a step-by-step approach. In a first stage, we could set-up a minimal web page for the Win32 port: - PostgreSQL Win32 installer (possibly translated), - translation of the web page in 40 languages, - step-by-step installation under Win32 (screenshots), - links (NLS project, documentation), ... advertise (example: http://www.pgadmin.org/pgadmin3/advocacy.php) and start monitoring downloads. With PostgreSQL Win32 version and looking at pgAdmin III statistics, reaching one million downloads every month seems a reasonable target. PostgreSQL is such a wonderful community project that there is no need to build complex marketing strategies to reach impressive goals. In a second stage, we can start building a rich web site (as you proposed) and make it live on the long run. Best regards, Jean-Michel I've been sort-of reading this thread off and on, so this may contain duplicate suggestions. I was researching an article I wrote about a comparison between Postgres and MySQL recently (If you want, you can read the article at http://www.devx.com/dbzone/Article/20743/). I noticed some clear differences between the mysql.com website and the Postgres website. 1) Since MySQL AB supports and trains for MySQL, there's loads of training information available on their website. On the other hand, I had a hard time finding training information for Postgres in general. Same goes for support. It's easier to find, but it's still somewhat convoluted, IMO. 2) There doesn't seem to be a clear roadmap on Postgres features. When certian things are expected. There's the TODO list that Bruce maintains, but it only outlines 'near' fixes. MySQL has a nice listing of what to expect in certian future versions. I know it's not a perfect list, but it'd be nice to know when full blown replication will be included in PostgreSQL as an example. On those same lines, there doesn't seem to be anything about the improvements in the minor versions. It seems that in every release (i.e. 7.2,7.3,7.4) there are pretty significant changes, but finding a place that outlines these changes is somewhat difficult. While being somewhat nit-picky on this, it'd also be helpful if someone wasn't completely database literate could understand some of the changes. Who needs transactions, anyways? :) 3) There's the issues of 'advanced database features' in general. Many MySQL applications perform much of their logic in the application level, instead of the database level. They do this because there aren't things like triggers or stored procedures in MySQL. As the saying goes, 'if mohammad won't go to the mountain, bring the mountian to mohammad'. Why not do some simple explainations as to why these things are good, and what they do, and how to use them in real context? 4) As other peole have noted, there's no windows build readily available for Postgres. There may be, but it's difficult to find. If someone's used to running, say, Oracle, and all they have is a windows machine to test something out on, MySQL has compiled binaries ready to go. 5) I believe that this was noted as well somewhere along the line - the other tools, like pgadmin III aren't readily available either. They're excellent tools, and they should be quick to find on the postgres website. 6) Bug tracking. I haven't really looked into how MySQL handles this, but when learning about Postgres, I discovered that the whole development model seemed kind of 'closed', and people on the mailing lists would find bugs repeatedly. Something like Bugzilla would be very helpful in this respect. I've been kind of out of the loop for the past 6 months in this area, so it may have changed since then. 7) The two Postgres books are available online for anyone to read and download. They're there, but, to me, you have to notice them on the sidebar to go to them. They're extremely helpful, and they should be pointed out more. Most of these suggestions aren't really anything to do with the database itself. It's simply a re-organization of some of the information that's already available. As others have mentioned, 'it's about the PR'. Just my $.02 worth. Tim ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] What can we learn from MySQL?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 My question is, What can we learn from MySQL? I don't know there is anything, but I think it makes sense to ask the question. Dear Bruce, Taking the example of pgAdmin III, which reached nearly one million hits in December (http://www.pgadmin.org/stats/webalizer), nothing seems impossible for PostgreSQL. Why not create an all-in-one bundle offering PostgreSQL, Apache, Php and PhpPgAdmin for Win32 and ... mass-release it. There is no need to create a complete installer. There could be a single installer executing other installers (like it is sometimes the case in the Win32 world). So that installers remain different. A single web page like http://win.postgresql.org; in 40 languages is enough to mass-release PostgreSQL. With an installer and a single web page, PostgreSQL Win32 could quickly reach one million downloads every month. There is no need to look for complicated strategies. Every month, there can be 10% more downloads. In the end, people will even forget the name of MySQL. Cheers, Jean-Michel -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAjW11extoHHj2YFMRAggVAJ0e/W4D/tnm/AtMK0nbjfDROtv/fwCfQ/eC KAnaz5T3PCceVlVS6zirsqg= =N1NM -END PGP SIGNATURE- ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [pgsql-advocacy] [HACKERS] PostgreSQL installation CD based on Morphix
Le Vendredi 23 Janvier 2004 03:08, Satoshi Nagayasu a écrit : If you want to install to your hard drive, KNOPPIX installation script can help you. However, I think without any installation is more important for newbies. Any comments? Dear Satoshi, Your Knoppix-based CD-ROM is a great way to promote PostgreSQL. My Debian workstation was installed using Knoppix. It worked like a charm without any problem until now. My point of view is that Knoppix text-based installation scripts are not enough user-friendly for most MS Windows users. This opinion comes from a self-study that I conducted visiting my neighbours in order to demonstrate and install Debian. My neighbours are mostly casual MS Windows users with no special background in computing. Some accepted to replace MS Windows with Debian, others did not. But all of them had problems with Knoppix text-based installation scripts. Therefore, my personal opinion is that Knoppix with good graphical installation wizards would 'rock'. This is how I turned to Morphix ... which is mostly based on Knoppix. The problem is that Morphix wizards are still very unstable. Now, if you allow it, I will contact you privately to propose for help the best I can ... Best regards, Jean-Michel ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
[HACKERS] PostgreSQL installation CD based on Morphix
Dear friends, In the past, there were several discussions in order to find suitable answers for MS Windows users willing to install and run PostgreSQL. Some of you suggested that users should install GNU/Linux over Windows. Not so easy for the basic MySQL or Ms Windows user, who need technical assistance ... and fear to destroy their machine. Therefore, I would like to draw some attention on the Morphix CD project from http://sourceforge.net/projects/morphix. Morphix is an auto-bootable Debian GNU/Linux distribution based on Knoppix. What makes Morphix different is that the project has several graphical installers and wizards in preparation (written in plain C, using GTK-2 libraries and Glade-2) ... which could possibly be used to install GNU/Linux and PostgreSQL tools over MS Windows. You can download a preview CD of Morphix from this address: http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/morphix/MorphixCombined-Gnome-0.4-1.iso?download Except for the installer itself, the wizards are not yet available in the main Morphix CD. To have a look at them, you will need to checkout from CVS (http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/morphix) and open the files in Glade-2. I also made some screenshots here: - morphixinstaller: once Morphix has booted in demo mode, you can use this wizard to install Morphix on the disk. Screenshots: http://developer.pgadmin.org/jean-michel/morphix/morphix_installer_step1.png http://developer.pgadmin.org/jean-michel/morphix/morphix_installer_step2.png http://developer.pgadmin.org/jean-michel/morphix/morphix_installer_step3.png http://developer.pgadmin.org/jean-michel/morphix/morphix_installer_step4.png http://developer.pgadmin.org/jean-michel/morphix/morphix_installer_step5.png http://developer.pgadmin.org/jean-michel/morphix/morphix_installer_step6.png http://developer.pgadmin.org/jean-michel/morphix/morphix_installer_step7.png - isomorphgui: graphical distribution maker (select the requested packages for your distribution and burn the ISO). Screenshots: http://developer.pgadmin.org/jean-michel/morphix/iso_morph_gui_1.png http://developer.pgadmin.org/jean-michel/morphix/iso_morph_gui_2.png - partitionmorpher: resize partitions on the fly (GTK-2 interface to libparted). Screenshots: http://developer.pgadmin.org/jean-michel/morphix/partition_morpher_1.png http://developer.pgadmin.org/jean-michel/morphix/partition_morpher_2.png IMHO opinion, there is a need to study the Morphix project in more details. Morphix could be a possible solution to the MS Windows migration problems. It probably involves 50 times less work than migrating PostgreSQL to MS Windows (and is a complete different project except for the fact that it could well bring as much new users to PostgreSQL than a native Win port and is less risky). The possible steps for such a project could be (just a guess): 1) Validate Morphixinstaller, isomorphgui and partitionmorpher wizards. These wizards are still in early stages of development. They are developed by one person, who would probably like to receive some help. 2) Create a wizard for PostgreSQL post-installation steps using GTK-2 and Glade-2: configuration of hosts and authentication, tuning and optimization of various parameters (Mainly a graphical interface to pg_hba.conf and postgresql.conf). 3) Gather all known PostgreSQL related Debian packages, including pgAdmin III, PhpPgAdmin, as well as PHP, Apache and report tools (and much more) and burn Morphix-PostgreSQL CDs. There could be a light PostgreSQL CD as well as a complete PostgreSQL CD. 4) Create a single website in 30 languages (http://installer.postgresql.org?) dedicated to releasing the installation CD. Based on the pgAdmin experience, there could well be more than 50.000 downloads every month, out of which 70% would be migrating from MS Windows to GNU/Linux. Comments and ideas are welcome. I would like to help anyone interested in becoming the lead of such a project. Best regards, Jean-Michel Pouré ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL port to pure Java?
Le Mardi 09 Décembre 2003 16:15, Ivelin Ivanov a écrit : I think that a co-bundle between an open source J2EE container like JBoss and a scalable database like PostgreSQL will be a blast. Why not cut all trees on earth and replace them with plastic? Before that, we need to port mankind DNA to Windows 3.1 in order to improve speed. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] Copyright (C) 1996-2002
Le Mardi 25 Novembre 2003 07:32, Randolf Richardson a crit : I'm curious, has anyone consulted with a lawyer on this? Yes, the lawyer concluded that the number 2003 had been both registered as a trademark and a patented invention. Therefore, it is very likely that Humanity will be able to jump directly to the next non-registered digit, which is the year 200440033, called 'year of innovation', which also happens to be the price asked by the lawyer for bringing us into the future. Jean-Michel ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] Encoding problem with 7.4
Le Jeudi 27 Novembre 2003 20:56, E.Rodichev a écrit : After installing 7.4 I created database completely from scratch with cyrillic locale: Dear Evgeny, If you want to go 'fast', do not hesitate to install pgAdmin3 GUI from http://www.pgadmin.org. We will be able to create and manage a database in KOI8 enconding. You can choose an UTF-8 encoding as well. pgAdmin3 displays the needed SQL. Therefore you can learn the PostgreSQL/SQL99 syntax quite fast. Also, we provide the full PostgreSQL documentation. Cheers, Jean-Michel ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] Build farm
Le Vendredi 21 Novembre 2003 19:47, Tom Lane a crit : I think the main value of a build farm is that we'd get nearly immediate feedback about the majority of simple porting problems. Your previous arguments that it wouldn't smoke everything out are certainly valid --- but we wouldn't abandon the regression tests just because they don't find everything. Immediate feedback is good because a patch can be fixed while it's still fresh in the author's mind. Dear friends, We have a small build farm for pgAdmin covering Win32, FreeBSD and most GNU/ Linux systems. See http://www.pgadmin.org/pgadmin3/download.php#snapshots The advantage are immediate feedback and correction of problems. Also, in a release cycle, developers and translators are quite motivated to see their work published fast. Of course, it is always hard to mesure the real impact of a build farm. My opinion it that it is quite positive, as it helps tighten the links between people, which is free software is mostly about. Cheers, Jean-Michel Pour ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [HACKERS] Build farm
Le Lundi 24 Novembre 2003 16:38, Andreas Pflug a crit : And a tiny correction: The farm member for win32 is my machine, and it's operated manually :-) Some GNU/Linux farm animals are living in my garage running on very old 50 euros machines ... Ancient farming :-) By the way, we would love if someone could provide pgAdmin3 daily snapshots under other systems. The list of platforms can be viewed here, anyone is welcome to provide additional ones: http://www.pgadmin.org/pgadmin3/download.php#snapshots Cheers, Jean-Michel ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[HACKERS] Win32 port
Le Mardi 18 Novembre 2003 20:22, ow a écrit : Not really. I simply think there are more pressing issues than win32 port. Dear friends, Porting to Win32 can multiply: - direct users (i.e. developers) by a factor of two or three, - indirect users by a larger factor, provided that major projects include PostgreSQL in their offer. PostgreSQL is a potential candidate for integration in OpenOffice, PHP bundles and several other projects. This is not the case of Firebird or MySQL which are not mature enough and do not cover all needs like PostgreSQL does. PostgreSQL Win32 users can account in millions of people, not hundred thousands like today. OK, now, some of us will complain that Win32 is not needed at a time when the Debian Synaptic graphical installer gives access to 13.748 packages. Win32 sounds like an old Atari game station. Agreed. On the long-run, everyone will leave Win32, even my grand-mother. But, on the converse, porting PostgreSQL to Windows today should be considered with care, because Win32 is the last component needed to reach a portfolio effect. [or to make a comparision in the Risk strategy game, when you have all countries in a continent, you win the continent]. Presently, PostgreSQL can be viewed as a large range of products and solutions. But this range only needs the Win32 port to become a complete portfolio. A portfolio effect is reached when you always answer questions with Yes or All. Do you do this or do that? Answer A: yes, we do them All. Answer B: yes, we do them All. Answer C: yes, we do them All. = portfolio effect ... You wake-up and suddenly PostgreSQL becomes the next Office-suite in the domain of databases. This attracks more developers and everyone is happy with business. Cheers, Jean-Michel ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] [pgsql-advocacy] Not 7.5, but 8.0 ?
Le Mardi 18 Novembre 2003 06:21, Greg Stark a écrit : Oh, and yeah, a win32 port. Yay, another OS port. Postgres runs on dozens of OSes already. What's so exciting about one more? Even if it is a pathologically hard OS to port to. Just because it was hard doesn't mean it's useful. Dear Greg, In your opinion, why did MySQL capture so many users quickly? Is it because MySQL offers a nice and powerful solution? No, on the converse, everyone knows that MySQL is not a reliable database. To some extent, MySQL is not really ACID compliant. It cannot parse large queries with LEFT and RIGHT joins. It does not offer reliable ODBC. And it does not evolve very quickly. it does not support Unicode. There are no server-side languages. etc... So why did MySQL succeed? In my opinion, because Php and MySQL were both available on Apache servers (GNU/Linux) and on home stations (Win32). Simple as that. This kind of cross-needs-effect is called a ***portfolio effect***. The portfolio effect is the ***central marketing strategy*** of Microsoft when releasing OS and Office suites together. Because your Grand-mother owns a Win 95 station, she sends you files under PowerPoint 95, in turn you invest in Office 2000 and send Excel 2000 files to your brother, who in turn invests in Office XP and prints Word XP documents. [---Future readers in 200 years: all these names used tp be trademarks from Microsoft in a time when a few people tried to lock-up ideas.--]. And you end up with everyone upgrading Office and Windows. Now, without being pretentious, I would like to remind this simple idea: ***Who lives by the sward, dies by the sward*** If we apply the same strategy as Microsoft or MySQL, PostgreSQL can conquer the whole market. Not 1% like today, but 60% or more like Apache. Because we are a community. If you do not believe reaching 60% of market shares is possible, let us assume that a PostgreSQL Win32 native port is available in 6 months. Immediately, the following bundles would appear: - PostgreSQL + PhpPgAdmin + pgAdmin - a potential of 1 million users - Apache2.0 + Php5 + PostgreSQL - a potential of 5 million users - OpenOffice + PostgreSQL - a potential of 10 million users - Some MS Access replacement - a potential of 2 million users - there are many others... For me, this makes 60% of the market at least. A 1% to 60% is not a small difference, it is a real gap. Best regards, Jean-Michel ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
[HACKERS] Defaut database encoding
Dear friends, Recently, several pgAdmin3 users complained about missing accentuated characters. The problems mostly came from the ASCII database encoding, which provides arbitrary storage of accentuated characters. During installation of a Debian station, I noticed that the Debian initialisation script asked the user to define a default database encoding. This reduces the risk for choosing an ASCIII database. Are there plans to make such an initialisation script default in PostgreSQL? I was not able to read discussions about the InitDB script. Maybe such a solution is on the way... Maybe the script could check the locale and propose an appropriate database encoding. Best regards, Jean-Michel ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 8: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] XML Docbook
Le Vendredi 14 Novembre 2003 10:19, Karel Zak a crit : KDE project use XML docbook and I think they have same problems and maybe already solutions too :-) http://i18n.kde.org/translation-howto/doc-translation.html Karel Dear Karel, Nice link with detailed information. This is a valid reason for moving to XML docbook. Cheers, Jean-Michel ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 8: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] Mapping Oracle types to PostgreSQL types
Dear Jean-Paul, Please tell me if my experience can help you in any way, I'd be really glad in participating your project. Thanks for your proposal, welcome in the team. In short, we plan to port Compiere to PostgreSQL and submit the changes back to Compiere team. There is no evidence so far that Compiere will accept the changes as their main developer sells Oracle licenses. At present, the team is: - Vincent Harcq [EMAIL PROTECTED] for the Java part or Compiere. - Jean-Paul ARGUDO [EMAIL PROTECTED] and Jean-Michel Pour [EMAIL PROTECTED] for the database migration. I can offer public CVS, web, etc.. for the project if you want. Thanks. During the week-end, I will set up a first web page and will contact you back on Monday. In a first time, our goal could be to describe the port in details, so to convince Compiere community to migrate to PostgreSQL. Without support from the Compiere community, there can be no port... Best regards, Jean-Michel ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[HACKERS] Mapping Oracle types to PostgreSQL types
Dear friends, I would like to port Compiere CRM from Oracle to PostgreSQL (and release it for free). At first I would like to convert the data schema. This is not difficult as Compiere is written using portable types like NUMBER (i,d) which can be replaced by NUMERIC (i,d), etc... A series of Search/Replace is sufficiant. There are other solutions in Contrib to connect to Oracle and export the data (Bruce). Don't blame me to search in another (silly) direction... The point here is that I would like to use the CREATE TYPE or CREATE DOMAIN syntax to map Oracle types to PostgreSQL types. Therefore I can say Guys, Oracle is now mostly compatible with PostreSQL. In PostgreSQL, I used CREATE TYPE syntax to map Oracle nvarchar2 - PostgreSQL varchar (see code #1). The code seems to be the equivalent of CREATE DOMAIN nvarchar2 as varchar; Now I can create tables with nvarchar2 but not nvarchar2(lenght). Is there a way to map Oracle nvarchar2(lenght) to PostgreSQL varchar(lenght) in PostgreSQL 7.3? Are there plans to allow such mapping in the future using the CREATE DOMAIN syntax? Best regards, Jean-Michel Pouré ** Code #1 --DROP TYPE nvarchar2 CASCADE; CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION oracle_nvarchar2in(cstring, oid, int4) RETURNS nvarchar2 AS 'varcharin' LANGUAGE 'internal' IMMUTABLE STRICT; COMMENT ON FUNCTION oracle_nvarchar2in(cstring, oid, int4) IS '(internal)'; CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION oracle_nvarchar2out(nvarchar2) RETURNS cstring AS 'varcharout' LANGUAGE 'internal' IMMUTABLE STRICT; CREATE TYPE nvarchar2 (INPUT=oracle_nvarchar2in, OUTPUT=oracle_nvarchar2out, DEFAULT='', INTERNALLENGTH=-1, ALIGNMENT=int4, STORAGE=EXTENDED); COMMENT ON TYPE nvarchar2 IS 'Oracle type nvarchar2(length) mapped to PostgreSQL type varchar(lenght)'; ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Mapping Oracle types to PostgreSQL types
Le Vendredi 17 Octobre 2003 16:32, Matthew T. O'Connor a crit : This would be wonderful. However, I believe the guys at Compiere tried to do this already and gave up on porting it to postgresql due too a couple of PostgreSQL limitations. I don't remember what they are exactly, I think it had to do with nested transactions, maybe savepoints, not sure exactly. You should be able to find some mention of this on their site. It sounded to me like they use a lot of Oracle features. There are only a few limitations in PostgreSQL like nested transaction, updatable cursors and Oracle PL error handling. Can we call these limitations? Most of us can live without them. These limitations are only a small portion of the code (sometimes a few lines like updatable cursors). Cheers, Jean-Michel ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 8: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] http://www.pgsql.com/register/submit.php
Le Lundi 13 Octobre 2003 14:45, Robert Treat a crit : Someone could have downloaded the package from sourceforge/freshmeat, so I don't think it hurts to have a pointer to postgresql.org. What might be better than a link for the submit page would just be a blurb mentioning we're always looking for new case studies from folks who are using postgresql, and perhaps point them some place for that. What I'd like to see added to the message is a reminder to run initdb... In France, according to the Loi informatique et libert, users have a right to access their personal data. As a result, every web form must display a warning which reminds users that they can access their personal data. This is not a potential problem for PostgreSQL.inc, but for Linux vendors who release PostgreSQL (RedHat, Mandrake, etc...) in France. The fine can be quite large. Also, a judge may stop immediately the release of products including PostgreSQL. Cheers, Jean-Michel ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] http://www.pgsql.com/register/submit.php
Le Lundi 13 Octobre 2003 21:28, Dave Page a crit : No more so than would be required under the Data Protection Act in the UK, but as the project and pgsql.com servers are neither in France or the UK, the content on them doesn't have to comply with those laws. RedHat is a French company in France (as well as Mandrake). The law does not care for the location of servers, mirrors, etc... If a French company asks to register, it shall obey the laws. PostgreSQL inc. is not at stake here. though in the interests of privacy and general good practice we should probably try to do so. Agreed. Good practice is the beginning of democracy. Cheers, Jean-Michel ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] [pgadmin-hackers] [GENERAL] pgAdmin III - Call for Translators
On Thursday 03 July 2003 12:32, A. van Roggen wrote: If you ever have read the instruction books for e.g. early VCR recorders, translated from the original Japanese to English, you will know exactly what I mean. Proper translation is not an easy job, and volunteers from another branch of technology should be informed that some technical suggestion to the text may be made before acceptance. Dear friend, We agree with you and have therefore written translation guidelines. Your feedback would be greatly appreciate. In the past, I translated part of Oracle8i into French several years ago and noticed it was not an easy game. We share the same ideas. Please refer to (CVS is down at the moment) : http://cvs.pgadmin.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/pgadmin3/docs/en_US/translation_guidelines.html Any suggestion is welcome. Cheers, Jean-Michel POURE ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Two weeks to feature freeze
On Thursday 19 June 2003 03:27, Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote: Do we have any killer features added to 7.4 that we can shout about? We should not forget the availability of PostgreSQL companion products, like pgAdmin3 and PhpPgAdmin3. These two GUIs should be ready for release during July, although I am not in the shoes of the project leaders, Dave and Christopher and cannot speak of it officially. They are not part of the PostgreSQL distribution, but well could be. Providing a reliable bundle including PostgreSQL, a graphical GUI (pgAdmin3) and a web administration interface (PhpPgAdmin3) is a big news. This will convince entry users, who normally turn to MySQL, that PostgreSQL is the best choice. We are not downgrading features but upgrading user needs... When PostgreSQL win32 port is ready, all platforms and entry user needs will be covered. Isn't it a big news? Just my 2 cents... Best regards, Jean-Michel POURE ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Windows port strategy
Le Mercredi 12 Février 2003 15:49, Merlin Moncure a écrit : I think there should be a special mailing list set up called pg-sql-win32-advocacy where people can continually harass the postgres dev team and debate the merits of the win32 operating system. I realize my views about PostgreSQL are not shared by anyone, otherwize in a few hours time, I would have received several emails saying I have the same feeling, etc It seems like everyone is looking for something different, which ultimately turns out to become ... PostgreSQL. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
[HACKERS] PostgreSQL Windows port strategy
Dear Friends, As a minor contributor to pgAdmin, I would like to express ideas as regards the Windows port. As a personal point of view, it may or may not reflect the community ideas, who knows. Don't flame me too much, I am only a casual user of PostrgreSQL... ** Microsoft success is not due to a particular software (Word, Excel, Access, Ms SQL Server, Internet Explorer, Visual Basic, etc...) but to the combination of all these softwares on a proprietary platform (Windows). Whatever free software breaks into this combination of proprietary softwares will participate, one step after another, in the destruction of Microsoft monopoly. Therefore, PostgreSQL and OpenOffice for Windows are probably the most valuable efforts to break down Microsoft monopoly. Windows alone, without Word, Excel, Power Point, Visual Basic, MS SQL Server, will not convince a single customer. And this will be the end of Microsoft. On the converse, Linux rise is due, not only to the availability of a large number of softwares, but also to the notion a collaborative works inside a community. Even without cross-porting software from Unixes to Windows, I believe Windows will die of its own death because collaborative development in communities is superior. It is only a question of time. The conditions for PostgreSQL to defeat Microsoft quickly is that we stay united and wage war on the two fronts: Windows on the one hand and Linux/Unixes on the other hand. Most of you are Americans and as such, you probably studied the American civil war. One of the reasons why the civil war claimed 500.000 dies is that the armies fought on different fronts, at different times, without synchronization. As regards PostgreSQL, our efforts should concentrate on both platforms at the same time. In other words, this means: porting PostgreSQL to Windows, bringing pgAdmin2/3 to Linux and other Free Unixies. And probably delivering bundles under Linux, Free Unixes and Windows, offering the best Free softwares: PostgreSQL server, pgAdmin client and PhpPgAdmin web interface. MySQL success is largely due to its availability under Windows in bundles, which is a pure Microsoft strategy. PostgreSQL are not and will never be playing Microsoft strategy because we are a world community. To sum up: 1) Microsoft sucess is due to the availibility of bundles under a proprietary platform. Replacing Microsoft leading softwares with Free alternatives participates in the destruction of Microsoft. 2) Linux and other free Unixes also offer a large number of softwares. Our competive advantage is to work in communities. Even without cross-porting, Free software is going to replace closed software, this is only a question of time. 3) To accelerate the replacement of Windows closed source solutions, PostgreSQL community should synchronize the releases of PostgreSQL under Windows, Linux and Unixes. Not porting PostgreSQL to Windows is playing Microsoft strategy. 4) Also, we should focus on offering users a bundle including: server (PostgreSQL), client (pgAdmin), web interface (phpPgAdmin) and probably Php. This does not need to be a single installer, but at least it should exist as links on the web page. Just my 2 cents. Best regards, Jean-Michel POURE ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[HACKERS] UTF-8 psql support
Dear all, Does psql support UTF-8 encoding? su postgres psql template1 CREATE DATABASE foo_é WITH encoding = 'Unicode'; does not work. It seems that Schema objects only accept ASCII letters. Do I miss something? Cheers, Jean-Michel POURE ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
[HACKERS] UTF-8 encoding question regarding PhpPgAdmin development
Dear all, We are working on PhpPgAdmin UTF-8 support. I would like to be able to view UTF-8, ASCII and Latin1 databases in PhpPgAdmin without changing HTML header encodings. I guess this can be done using: SET CLIENT_ENCODING='Unicode' for all PhpPgAdmin connections. My question are: - Are some database encodings not translatable into UTF-8 using SET CLIENT_ENCODING = 'Unicode'. It used to be the case for Latin1, but it has been fixed now. - Some letters, like the euro sign, do not belong to Latin1. Example: let's say we have a Latin1 database and use SET CLIENT_ENCODING = 'Unicode'. If I input a euro sign, does it get rejected by PostgreSQL? - More generaly, is it safe to convert an Encoding (ex: Latin1 or Chinese multi-byte) into UTF-8 using SET CLIENT_ENCODING? Can all multi-byte encodings be converted into/from UTF-8 safely? Best regards, Jean-Michel ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] UTF-8 encoding question regarding PhpPgAdmin development
Dear Peter, Thank you very much for your answers. It rings a bell. Finally, when you display East Asian characters you will have a font problem because the Chinese, Japanese, and Korean characters are mapped to the same range in Unicode but you are supposed to use country-specific glyphs. Do you mean that glyph hexaX will display differently in UTF-8 and EUC_JP? If it is really the case, we cannot use UTF-8. Round-trip conversion is not safely possible, so if your tool provides a read/edit/write tool then you will have problems. Maybe we could use getdatabaseencoding() to determine the dabase encoding and generate HTML pages with the corresponding headers. Example: Latin1 database - ISOS-8859-1 headers. The problem is that PhpPgAdmin interface needs to be localized in several languages, not related to database encoding. Example: EUC_JP interface and Latin1 databases. Maybe a solution would be to use the ISO 10646 notation for PhpPgAdmin interface localization: #XH;, where H is a hexadecimal number. Cheers, Jean-MIchel POURE ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
[HACKERS] SourceForge policy on http://sourceforge.net/tos/tos.php
I'm just curious: why do we need GBorg at all? Does it offer anything that SourceForge, or a similar service does not offer? SAY NO TO SOURCEFORGE ! Please find enclosed some extracts from licensing terms (http://sourceforge.net/tos/tos.php) : a) Acceptance of Terms We reserve the right, at our discretion, to change, modify, add or remove portions of these terms periodically. Such modifications shall be effective immediately upon posting of the modified agreement to the website. Your continued use of the SourceForge.net website following the posting of changes to these terms and conditions will mean that you accept those changes. - My point of view : SourceForge has an unlimited right to change the content of the TOS. A simpe post of the modified TOS is sufficient. For example, they may at any time charge access to their web site. b) Licensing of code In each such case, the submitting user grants SourceForge.net the royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive and fully sublicensable right and license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform and display such Content (in whole or part) worldwide and/or to incorporate it in other works in any form, media, or technology now known or later developed, all subject to the terms of any applicable approved license. - My point of view : More surprisingly, SourceForge owns all content posted on SourceForge. For legal reasons, SF licensing agreement is subject to the terms of any applicable approved license. But, the words *** or later development *** are thrilling. c) Termination We may terminate a user's account in our absolute discretion and for any reason. We are especially likely to terminate for reasons that include, but are not limited to, the following: 1.) violation of these Terms; 2.) abuse of site resources or attempt to gain unauthorized entry to the site or site resources; 3.) use of Service in a manner inconsistent with the Purpose; 4.) a user's request for such termination; and 5.) requirement of applicable law, regulation, court or governing agency order. - My point of view : As a consequence, SourceForge does not allow a user to unregister from SourceForge. I tried to unregister a project from SF, without success. Why? Because SF owns the (your) project rights. d) Incompatibility with local european laws This contract does not comply with the European laws : - SF may change the licensing terms at any time, without limitation of the future modified clauses. In the European Union, you cannot grant an ***unlimited right*** on your ***future and undefined*** work without a ***defined counterpart*** (example=a salary). - In French law, an author right is devided in two separate rights : the owner right and the moral right. Every author (or community of authors) owns a moral right on his/her work, even after the selling of rights. It has several consequences which I wron't bother you with (even in RedHat attitude = the renaming of a software is unmoral, bacause it makes you believe RedHat is the original author of PostgreSQL). e) SourceForge is a closed-source service SourceForge migrated (=rewrote) their database server-side code from PostgreSQL to Oracle, mainly for legal reasond. This new work gives them the ability to change licences. As a consequence, SF did not release their code for a year or so. SF can now be considered as a closed-source service. f) I would discourage anyone from registering on SourceForge. Any organization is meant to be created, to live ... and die. Microsoft, Oracle and SourceForge will probably die sooner or later. On the other hand, open-source project provider, like Savannah or better GBOrg, which are owned by non-profit organization or individuals releasing their source code under the GNU, will never die. This make a huge difference. Now, what if Microsoft purchased OSDN? What would be the consequences? Cheers, Jean-Michel ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
[HACKERS] Big 7.4 items : table attachment
Dear all, Why not use libgda, Gnome-DB database provider, to be able to attach foreign tables inside PostgreSQL. Would it be hard to achieve? Many users are looking for such a solution to be able to query/update tables outside PostgreSQL in Oracle, MS SQL Server, IBM DB2 or even MySQL databases. Cheers, Jean-Michel POURE ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Linux Journal Editors Choice Awards
Le Mardi 3 Septembre 2002 04:28, Gerhard Häring a écrit : PostgreSQL will have a native win32 port, Just out of interest, what is the advancement of the Windows port. Best regards, Jean-Michel ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] [PATCHES] CREATE OR REPLACE TRIGGER
Le Dimanche 11 Août 2002 17:53, Tom Lane a écrit : Hmm. I remember Poure asking repeatedly for CREATE OR REPLACE VIEW, and that makes a lot of sense to me, because other things *can* depend on a view. (Unfortunately, by the same token it's a lot harder to do.) The use-case for replacing a trigger is not visible to the naked eye. Dear Tom, Replacing a trigger is interesting, for several reasons: - you may need to temporary disable a trigger. In pgAdmin2, you may move the view to a temporary table. This can be done by other means, but none is standard. By the way, a DISSABLE TRIGGER would be usefull. - you may need to choose another function or change events. - systems with server-side code need to be UPGRADED. Look at Compiere for example. When the database schema evolves, a scripts shall be able to run server-side and upgrade the database safely. - newbees like to play around just as if they were in Access, Excel or MySQL. In pgAdmin2, the graphical presentation enables them to create, move, alter and delete objects. This is very important for someone who learns databases. Learning becomes a game. Inside PostgreSQL backend, I see no reason why this should not be done by a DROP/CREATE. Last of all, if all objects could be REPLACED or ALTERED inside PostgreSQL, it would become interesting to create automatic Diff between revisions of a schema. Then, PostgreSQL itself sould be able to write the upgrade script. What do you think of this advanced feature? Do you think it is possible to store schema dumps inside postgreSQL and generate upgrade scripts between revisions? Cheers, Jean-Michel ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Open 7.3 items
Le Mercredi 31 Juillet 2002 05:50, Bruce Momjian a écrit : Here are the open items for 7.3. We have one more month to address them before beta. Is CREATE OR REPLACE VIEW on the list? ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Open 7.3 items
Le Mercredi 31 Juillet 2002 05:50, Bruce Momjian a écrit : Source Code Changes What about CREATE OR REPLACE VIEW which would be great for pgAdmin2. Thanks to all of you./Jean-Michel POURE ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] (A) native Windows port
Le Jeudi 27 Juin 2002 05:48, Christopher Kings-Lynne a écrit : I am willing to supply a complete, friendly, powerful and pretty installer program, based on NSIS. Maybe you should contact Dave Page, who wrote pgAdmin2 and the ODBC installers. Maybe you can both work on the installer. By the way, when will Dave be added to the main developper list? He wrote 99% of pgAdmin on his own. Cheers, Jean-Michel POURE ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] How can we help?
Le Samedi 8 Juin 2002 01:43, Scott Shattuck a écrit : What is the planned status of Java support in the engine? Is there anyone working on JVM integration at this stage and if not, how could we best integrate with the team to take on this task? You may be interested in looking at PLjava on http://sourceforge.net/projects/pljava/ Cheers, Jean-Michel POURE ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[HACKERS] UTF-8 safe ascii() function
Dear all,
I would like to transform UTF-8 strings into Java-Unicode. Example :
- Latin1 : 'é'
- UTF-8 : 'é'
- Java Unicode = '\u00233'
Basically, a Unicode compatible ascii() function would be fine.
ascii('é') should return 233.
1) Has anyone written an ascii UTF-8 safe wrapper to ascii() function? If yes,
would you be so kind to publish this function on the list.
2) Are there plans to add an ascii() UTF-8 safe function to PostrgeSQL?
Best regards,
Jean-Michel POURE
---(end of broadcast)---
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Re: [HACKERS] [BUGS] Bug #659: lower()/upper() bug on
Le Mardi 14 Mai 2002 03:29, Tatsuo Ishii a écrit : For example, user might want to have a table like this in a UTF-8 database: create table t1( english text,-- English message germany text,-- Germany message japanese text-- Japanese message ); Or just CREATE table t1( text_locale varchar, text_content text ); which is my case. Just my 2 cents. /Jean-Michel POURE ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[HACKERS] Two pieces of information about Cygwin installer
1) Cygwin latest CVS installer version supports command lines. 2) Cygwin setup.exe is not needed. According to Robert Collins, an appropriate setup.ini file can be used for automatic installation. Cheers, Jean-Michel POURE ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
[HACKERS] pgAdmin2 to be included in Dev-C++
Le Vendredi 10 Mai 2002 13:13, mlw a écrit : I am starting to come to the conclusion that the PostgreSQL group is satisfied with cygwin, and the will to create a native Win32 version does not exist outside of a few organizations that are paying developers to create one. The more important is get a Windows version on the way. pgAdmin2, PostgreSQL Windows GUI, will soon be included in the Dev-C++ development environment, as per discussion with Colin Laplace. Native tools for Windows can have a huge success. Dev-C++ had 1.200.000 hits over the last years. Without some buy-in from the core team, I'm not sure I am willing to spend my time on it. If someone would be willing to fund the 100 or so man-hours required to do it, then that would be a different story. I suggest we focuss on providing a minimal PostgreSQL + Cygwin layer at first. This will give you the required user base to transform PostgreSQL into a multi-platform RDBMS. If we add together direct downloads on http://www.postgresql.org and from partner sites (Dec-C++ on http://www.bloodshed.net), we could well reach the number of 1.000.000 downloads a year under the Windows platform. Cheers, Jean-Michel ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] pgAdmin2 to be included in Dev-C++
Le Vendredi 10 Mai 2002 14:06, mlw a écrit : Sorry, I'm not interested in a cygwin version of PostgreSQL. I think it will do more harm than good. If we make it something that people want to try, and then they TRY it, they will find that is sucks, then we lose. It is very hard to remove the bad taste in ones mouth of a poor product. Think Yugo. Cygwin is very stable. Its community is relatively small but very actuve. We could well provide a unique installer to hide Cygwin from the user. This can be done compiling Cygwin.dll in a separate user space, as per discussion with Dave Page. I have no patience with designed to fail projects, certainly not with my time. PostgreSQL+cygwin is a loser. If I am going to invest my time and effort, I want it to be great. I agree a native Windows PostgreSQL would be better. OK, a conscientious developer will explore options. They will install various systems and try them. Given a cygwin+PostgreSQL system, MSSQL, MySQL, Oracle, DB2, etc. MSSQL will win. MSSQL will win over Oracle for cost and ease of setup. DB2 will lose, similarly to Oracle. MySQL will lose because it sucks. PostgreSQL+cygwin will lose because it will also suck. MySQL under Windows is based on Cygwin. MySQL sucks and has a 'huge success. So let's do it in three moves : - first move : gain a large audience providing a stable release of Cygwin + PostgreSQL. This could be done within days ... not weeks. This will be much better than MySQL. - second move : release a bundle of pgAdmin2 + PostgreSQL on http://www.postgresql.org, Bloodshed and other sites. - third move : based on 1.000.000 downloads and 100.000 users, feed the community with more developpers, more ideas and more Windows native source-code. So you wron't say I am alone. Rome ne s'est pas faite en une nuit. Cheers, Jean-michel ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
[HACKERS] Cygwin Setup.exe future
Dear all, Here is a copy of a mail received from Robert Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Jean-Michel POURE -Original Message- From: Jean-Michel POURE [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 6:30 PM Does setup.exe support uninstalling just like rpm -e package name does? Are dependencies taken into account during uninstall? Not currently, but it should. It will for the cygwin project eventually. Is Cygwin listed in each package dependency? No, as I said - it's optional (because cygwin itself is in base). As we are talking about the use of the codebase for debian, it doesn't really matter what the cygwin setup.ini files contain though. OK then. If I only want ot install PostgreSQL, it will only download the required dependencies, right? Does the installer check version dependency? It only downloads whats needed for what you install. i.e. If you install (say) ncurses, it will download libncurses automatically. And dependencies are transitive. If A requires B, and B requires C. A does not need to list C unless A is directly dependent on C. Setup will 'do the right thing'. Not currently, it's on the todo, as is 'provides:'. Why do you say setup.exe is horrible? Bad architecture? Bad GUI? Doesn't work? The last two days of MD5 related errors that I have not had time to look at? Bad GUI for sure. 1) There should be a small descrition of each package like in .DEB or .RPM packages. A single line is not enought. A Windows user does not know what he is downloading. We want to put popups when you mouse over the packages. Also we want more keyboard control, to assist partially disabled (or whatever the politically correct discription is) users. 2) Packages should be listed in an on-line database. With a full description and manuals. http://www.cygwin.com/packages. However, because setup.ini, like the debian Packages database is federated, this cannot be a complete list, only a list of the cygwin-ditribution's packages. 3) Cygwin installer should be accessible in the Control Panel directly or in Add/Remove software. Presently, it can only be access through the setup.exe There's no reason that it can't be. It'd only take a few registry entries. I've added this to the TODO list. However, the user would have to choose when to register setup.exe, because if the user chooses 'run from net' you wouldn't want the temporary copy of setup.exe to be registered with Add/Remove. 4) We need a setup.exe command line tool to implement limited installers that will not conflict with setup.exe. Example : if we release a limited Cygwin installer at PostgreSQL, we need to be sure it will not conflict with Cygwin. The setup.exe code base in HEAD is being heavily modified for reuse. It's been a long term goal to make setup.exe's code available without a full fork() being made of the code base. The first tool to appear will be a setup.ini linter, similar to lintian, which will use the setup.ini parser, but nothing else. The code is in C++, and is slowly becoming clean. (It started off life as a sort-of C++ using C methodology project, and that made it very hard to change.) What is the on-going work as for setup.exe? Could you describe shortly what is in the hub ? The [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list is the best place to discuss setup.exe. I think it's a little off-topic. Suffice to say, setup.exe is not a trivial application, and while a minimal version can be created quite easily, I really believe that contributing to/leveraging setup.exe will be much more time-effective. Rob Current WISHLIST and TODO's from CVS follow: (Some of these have been done, but not tested enough to remove from the list). TODO: * Chooser dialog needs work. * Mirrors list orer is snafued. * Don't downgrade if the curr version is = installed? * support rpm/deb files for reading the package from. (To allow the maintainers the use of rpm/deb tools to create packages.) * make a librar(y|ies) for setup and cygcheck to use containing 1) Something to translate POSIX - native. Currently called cygpath in setup, although this is probably a bad choice of name. 2) Something to return the list of installed packages. 3) Something to return the cygwin mount table. Currently, I have implemented a lightweight setmntent and getmntent using the code in 4) Something to parse a tar file name into package/version or altenatively, return that information from 2) 5) Something to return a list of files associated with a package. * When installing and enough packages default to visible, the RH scrollbar is sometimes hidden. * Mark versions as prev/curr/test in the GUI when clicking through them. * Remove *empty* directories on uninstalls * Correctly overwrite -r--r--r-- files. * Make setup.exe available through Add/Remove WISHLIST: * rsync:// support * Some way to download *all* the source * When clicking on a category
Re: [HACKERS] pgAdmin2 to be included in Dev-C++
Dear Mark, Agreed except for paths (see below). But now that we agree, why not move to Windows in three steps: 1) Release a minimal Cygwin + PostgreSQL installer, 2) Have 100.000 downloads or more Windows developpers, 3) Work as a team on a Windows port. By the way : Cygwin accepts both Windows AND Unix paths depending on installation options. Cygwin is able to understand C:\program files\postgresql\var\lib\pgsql, /cygdrive/../var/lib/pgsql or simply /var/lib/pgsql. Cheers, Jean-Michel Here are the problems with cygwin: (1) GNU license issues. (2) Does not work well with anti-virus software (3) Since OS level copy-on-write is negated, process creation is much slower. (4) Since OS level copy-on-write is negated, memory that otherwise would not be allocated to the process is forced to be allocated when the parent process data is copied. As a product manager, I would not commit to using a cygwin application in production. Do you know of any long-uptime systems using cygwin? PostgreSQL would need to run for months. I would view it as a risk. Lastly, a Windows program is expected to be a Windows program. Native paths need to be used, like C:\My Database, D:\My Postgres, or something like that. Native tools must be used to manage it. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] pgAdmin2 to be included in Dev-C++
Le Vendredi 10 Mai 2002 15:33, mlw a écrit : The first time it doesn't work because of anti-virus software, they'll call it junk. When they test performance and see that it sucks, they'll remove the software. Dear Mark, PostgreSQL will work well if cygwin.dll is compiled in a separate workspace and installed under C:/program files/postgresql and hidden from users. I agree it will not be able to serve a 50 TPS system. Furthermore : MySQL sucks, Windoze sucks and Microsoft is violating our private rights everyday. So if you care for freedom, we are going to release this f** Cygwin minimal installer. Don't you think my friend? Noone will complain about it. Do you see demonstrations in the street against Microsoft? The answer is no. Therefore, I believe noone will complain about a minimal Cygwin + PostgreSQL installer. This will only be the beginning of a complete Windows port. Which can also be expressed as : Il faut laisser le temps au temps Il n'y a pas le feu au lac Cheers, Jean-Michel ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Why you should Join W32/Debian to save the world from Microsoft
Le Jeudi 9 Mai 2002 17:35, Ross J. Reedstrom a écrit : That's a different installer over a Unixoid operating system, so it doesn't really prove that the only problem is the installer, does it? There are three different issues : 1- package installer providing a minimal Cygwin version (other than Cygwin.exe which does not work well), 2- a nice Windows GUI (like pgAdmin2), 3- Windows port of PostgreSQL. 1 can be achived easily. 2 already exsts thank to Dave Page. 3 can wait until we hit the market with 1 and 2. This will give us more feedback. So, the only problem remaining is the installer. Is anyone interested in helping me releasing a W32/Debian Cygwin package? Cheers, Jean-Michel POURE ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] How much work is a native Windows application?
Le Jeudi 9 Mai 2002 16:55, mlw a écrit : Can a cygwin version of PostgreSQL see the native file system, like: C:\My Database, D:\postgres? You have the choice to keep Windows or Unix paths. Both are supported. /Jean-Michel POURE ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Execution time of UPDATE raises dramatically!
Help You are welcome. create table some_table ( id int UNIQUE, value int ); INSERT INTO some_table values(1,0); INSERT INTO some_table values(50,0); I would prefer : CREATE TRABLE table_foo ( foo_oid serial, foo_value int ); foo_oid will become a primary key, thus it is being indexed. Which is not the case of your example. When I do UPDATE some_table set value=... where id=..., query execution time raises in arithmetic progression! After about 50 updates on every row query consumes ~3 sec against 0.3 sec as it was at the beginning. psql takes ~80% of CPU time (acording to top). VACUUM helps to restore execution speed, but i think it is not the way out. Is it BUG or FEATURE? You need to create an index OR to add a primary key. Postgres: 7.1.3; System: Debian woody (kernel 2.4.17) on K6/450 with 128Mb RAM. If you are starting developement, it is highly recommanded you upgraded to PostgreSQL 7.2.1. It is the most stable PostgreSQL release, with many bug fixes and speed improvement. Also, if you have a Windows workstation, try install pgAdmin2 (http://pgadmin.postgresql.com). This will speed-up your developements. Do not hesitate to come back to us to tell if it solved your problem. Cheers, Jean-Michel POURE ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL mission statement?
Le Vendredi 3 Mai 2002 04:46, mlw a écrit : Corporate bullshit or not, it is a fact of life and a custom that we open source people need to accept. We write the best shit, we do the best work. We are more professional and dedicated than most professionals. Our quality is usually much better than proprietary our counterparts. Unfortunately business types do not understand us. If we are unable to reach the people who would decide to use our stuff, then it is our fault for failure. Therefore we need a moto. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL mission statement?
Le Vendredi 3 Mai 2002 02:22, Thomas Lockhart a écrit : PostgreSQL is and will be the most advanced open-source database available anywhere. *** The PostgreSQL community is committed to creating and maintaining the best, most reliable, open-source multi-purpose standards based database, and with it, promote free and open source software world wide. Ultimately, PostgreSQL database is a gift to Humanity serving freedom, knowledge and equal access to information, and as such belongs to every Human. *** PostgreSQL is transcendantal, which means it goes beyond the original concept of its creators. People began working on it for various reasons (for professional needs, because of open-source code, to have fun) ... and ultimately it becomes a gift to Humanity. My feeling is that the PostgreSQL community is making history without even noticing it. You are all heroes my friends... Cheers, Jean-Michel POURE ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL mission statement?
The PostgreSQL community is committed to creating and maintaining the best, most reliable, open-source multi-purpose standards based database, and with it, promote free(dom) and open source software world wide. I hope you don't mind writing free(dom) with the idea of fighting patent abuses. Cheers, Jean-Michel ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Implement a .NET Data Provider
Le Dimanche 21 Avril 2002 02:11, Francisco Jr. a écrit : I'd like to know if there is already anybody working with something like this because I'm creating a new project at sourceforge.net and I don't want to overlap anywork already done :). Maybe you should try contact the ODBC list which is mainly working on Windows features / connectivity. Also, the ODBC team might open a CVS account for you on Postgresql.org. SourceForge does not allow projects to leave. Therefore, when your project is mature enough to be included in PostgreSQL main tree, there will still be garbage on Sourceforge in a Google search. Cheers, Jean-Michel POURE ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
[HACKERS] Various issues
Dear all, Here are some issues: 1) PostgreSQL installer (wizard) http://www.networksimplicity.com/openssh has released an OpenSSH minimal Cygwin installer. They have had 300.000 tracked downloads so far. If true, this numer is superior to Cygwin downloads itself. The installer is incompatible with Cygwin (as it installs a minimal Cygwin layer). They also provide a minimal configuration GUI.Is this the solution? I got in contact with the installer maintainer to ask the cons/pros of such a solution v.s. a pure Cygwin layer. For the moment, I still agree the solution is to create a wizard in pgAdmin2 2) My current work is stopped For the moment, I am too bust to work on pgAdmin2. This might last 1 or 2 weeks. Here is my personal to-do list. Feel free to pick-up any issue : - Handle two separate connexions (one for schema, another for data queries). The user should be able to define client_encoding for each connexion. - Work on PostgreSQL wizard. - Refine pseudo-alter trigger code (it was removed because unfinished). - Add pseudo ALTER DROP COLUM (this should not be difficult using pgSchema). I will be back soon with plenty of time. 3) KDE3 is marvelous I now use KDE3 which is a perfect environment. I tried writing some code in kDevelop. It seems possible to write code fast... Therefore I am still asking myself ***why***we should continue develop pgAdmin on Windows... To my humble opinion, KDE needs a real database abstraction layer (like pgSchema) with a multi-vendor interface. The only solution today is Gnome libgda. Unfortunately, libgda is not well-written. A good abstraction layer needs inheritence (C++, not C) and XML to handle specfic features of each database provider. Secondly, KDE3, Konqueror and KDevelop would probably welcome a pgAdmin port. This would immediatly give us hundred thousands of users. So why bother with Windows? Thirdly, qt3 applications can be compiled under Windows. And KDE3 is beeing ported to Windows using Cygwin. You can be sure it is not a year before we can use KDE3 under WIndows and MacOSX. Last of all, Microft is like a desease: if we do not fight them now, it will continue growing. So why work for them under Windows? Cheers, Jean-Michel ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
[HACKERS] Disregard my last message
Please disregard my last message which was intended for [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jean-Michel POURE ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] Platform comparison ...
Le Lundi 18 Mars 2002 22:53, Dale Anderson a écrit : A couple of our developers, which are Microsoft VB developers, are complaining about not being able to use proprietary MS stuff with PostgreSQL. Dear Dale, Maybe you could consider using pgAdmin2 (http://pgadmin.postgresql.org), which displays all database objects (tables, views, functions, triggers, rules, etc...) in a nice Window$ interface. An MS SQL Server migration wizard is also included. Historically, several pgAdmin2 developpers come from an microsoft-oracle background and wanted to get out of the matrix. The most visible difference between MS SQL Server and PostgreSQL is that MS SQL Server can be programmed in VB, whereas PostgreSQL supports serveral server-side languages : PLpgSQL, PLperl, PLpython, even C... People usually underestimate the power of server-side scripting. Oracle does not and sell each server-side programming cartridge separately. PostgreSQL provides them for free. Furthermore, pgAdmin2 is provided with an abstraction layer called pgSchema, which gives access to most database objects through an OCX technology. pgSchema can be used in any VB project very easilly. Therefore, in my humble opinion, PostgreSQL provides a very reliable solution for both client-side (VB) and server-side (PostgreSQL) programming needs. The power of PostgreSQL is to be able to do things smartly because we offer a complete development environment. The only thing your developpers need is to install pgAdmin2 and start learning a server-side language (like PLpgSQL which is very easy). There is probably a lot of client-code in you applications to migrate server-side. PostgreSQL is also a great community of developpers. For help, the best place are pgsql-admin, pgsql-general and pgadmin-hackers mailing lists. Best regards, Jean-Michel POURE ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] Again, sorry, caching.
Le Lundi 18 Mars 2002 13:23, mlw a écrit : Lets face it, MySQL wins a lot of people because they put in features that people want. MySQL is very interested in benchmarks. It does not really care for data consistency. Cheers, Jean-Michel POURE ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[HACKERS] UNICODE
Dear all,
I am running PostgreSQL 7.1.2 with UNICODE support in production.
Maybe I miss something about UNICODE:
CREATE TABLE test (
source_oid serial,
source_timestamp timestamp,
source_creation date DEFAULT 'now',
source_modification date DEFAULT 'now',
source_content text
);
INSERT INTO test (source_content) VALUES ('Photocopie du permis de
construire accepté.');
Now, when trying :
SELECT * FROM test WHERE source_content ILIKE '%accept%'; --- returns the
record;
SELECT * FROM test WHERE source_content ILIKE '%accepté%' --- returns nothing
SELECT * FROM test WHERE source_content ILIKE '%accepte%' --- returns nothing
The same happens from ODBC, PHP and psql. Can you reproduce this?
I have tried
Best regards,
Jean-Michel POURE
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TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Ultimate DB Server
At 13:07 28/10/01 -0400, you wrote: I'm questioning whether anyone has done benchmarks on various hardware for PGSQL and MySQL. I'm either thinking dual P3-866's, Dual AMD-1200's, etc. I'm looking for benchmarks of large queries on striped -vs- non-striped volumes, different processor speeds, etc. Hello Mike, IMHO, you should consider *simple* software optimization first. Hardware can bring a 2x gain whereas software optimization can boost an application by 10x. Until now, I never heard or read about a real *software optimization* benchmark between MySQL and PostgreSQL. Software optimization includes the use of views, triggers, rules, PL/pgSQL server side programming. By definition, it is hard to compare MySQL with PostgreSQL because MySQL *does not include* these important features (and probably will never do). I see at least two easy cases where PostgreSQL beats MySQL: 1) Create a simple relational DB with triggers storing values instead of performing LEFT JOINS. Increase the number of simultaneous queries. MySQL will die at x queries and PostgreSQL will still be working at 5x queries. 2) Use PL/pgSQL to perform complex jobs normally devoted to an application server (Java, PHP) on a separate platform. In some case (recursive loops for example), network traffic can be divided by 100. As a result, PostgreSQL can be 10x faster because everything is performed server-side. This is to say that, in some circomstances, PostgreSQL running on an i586 with IDE drive beats MySQL on a double Pentium. In real life, applications are always optimized at software level first before hardware level. This is why PostsgreSQL is *by nature* better than MySQL. Unless MySQL gets better, there is no real challenge in comparing both systems. Cheers, Jean-Michel POURE ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] UNICODE
psql uses your input literally - so is your console/xterm in
UNICODE/UTF8?
Client: \encoding returns 'UNICODE'.
Server: \list show databases. All databases are UNICODE (except TEMPLATE0
and TEMPLATE1 which are ASCII of course). I use a Mandrake 8.1 distribution
and think my console is UNICODE.
As for me, I typed INSERT INTO source_content VALUES ('Permis de conduire
accepté') in Psql.
As I said - psql does not do any conversion.
The faulty query is: INSERT INTO test (source_content) VALUES ('Permis de
conduire accepté');
I just can't believe that Psql is not UTF-8 compatible. It seems unreal as
Psql is PostgreSQL #1 helper application. Should I use PostgreSQL MULE
encoding to have automatic trans coding. What are the guidelines, I am
completely lost.
Psql does not insert the data and I have to kill it manually. Can you
reproduce this?
No. If it hangs this is serious problem. Or did you simply
forgot final ';' ? It btw does not seem valid sql to me,
considering you previously provided table structure.
Is it possible that my database is corrupted? I have used pg_dump several
times to dump data from production server to development servers and
conversely. Does pg_dump produce UTF8 output? What are the guidelines when
using UTF-8: forget psql and pg_dump?
In the end: are the strings/queries you give to psql/pg_exec
UTF-8 - this is now main thing, as you have _configured_
everything correctly.
Everything is configured correctly server-side (PostgreSQL, Psql).
Thank you very much for your support Marko,
Best regards,
Jean-Michel
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Re: [HACKERS] UNICODE
At 17:09 28/10/01 +0200, you wrote: On Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 02:34:49PM +0100, Jean-Michel POURE wrote: psql uses your input literally - so is your console/xterm in UNICODE/UTF8? Client: \encoding returns 'UNICODE'. Server: \list show databases. All databases are UNICODE (except TEMPLATE0 and TEMPLATE1 which are ASCII of course). I use a Mandrake 8.1 distribution and think my console is UNICODE. You think? Try this: $ echo accepté | od -c If your term is in utf you should get: 000 a c c e p t 303 251 \n 011 If in iso-8859-1: 000 a c c e p t 351 \n 010 It may be in some other 8bit encoding too, then the last number may be different. It is: 000 a c c e p t é \n 010 Hmm. It may be a bug in input routines. You give PostgreSQL a 1byte 'é', it expects 2 byte char and overflows somewhere. Can you reproduce it on 7.1.3? Maybe its fixed there, I cant reproduce it. I noticed some longer routines with é worked without any problem. I cannot reproduce it as I converted my database to plain ASCII. Will try UNICODE on 7.2 beta when adding Japanese text to my database. Thank you very much for your help. Best regards, Jean-Michel POURE ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] UNICODE
1) Did you compile PostgreSQL with --enable-locale Yes. 2) Did you set correct locale for postmaster (LANG=xxx) Database was create using CREATE db WITH ENCODING='UNICODE'. pgsql: \encoding returns UNICODE. The db stores multiple languages (French, English, Japanese). Why should I define a *single* locale for postmaster? Do I miss something? Best regards, Jean-Michel POURE ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] UNICODE
I only want this query to work under Unicode:
SELECT * FROM test WHERE source_content ILIKE '%accepté%'.
* If client_encoding == server_encoding, the bytes are put into
DB as-is - no conversion is done.
So are you absolutely sure you have on client side UTF8 strings?
PostgreSQL is compiled with UNICODE and LOCALE support.
Unicode is used on both ends (PostgreSQL and psql).
Unfortunately you cant use client_encoding=latin1 as PostgreSQL
refuses the do the conversion between them. (I am with 7.1.3)
According to the on-line manual, only MULE provides instant transcoding.
Eg. I did the following:
* created db with encoding = UNICODE
* Put your example into test.sql
* iconv -f latin1 -t utf8 test.sql test2.sql
* psql test2.sql
and it worked as it should...
Nice to hear it works when transcoding files to UTF-8. It shows it is not a
back-end problem.
As for me, I typed INSERT INTO source_content VALUES ('Permis de conduire
accepté') in Psql.
Psql does not insert the data and I have to kill it manually. Can you
reproduce this?
Best regards,
Jean-Michel POURE
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Re: [HACKERS] CREATE OR REPLACE VIEW/TRIGGER
CREATE OR DROP VIEW Is this for real? If I were a database server I would say to the client please make up your mind :-) I meant DROP IF EXISTS and then CREATE. This is more simple to implement than CREATE OR REPLACE. Best regards, Jean-Michel POURE ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
[HACKERS] CREATE OR REPLACE VIEW/TRIGGER
Dear all, Would it be possible to implement CREATE OR REPLACE VIEW / TRIGGER in PostgreSQL 7.2? Alternatively, could someone implement CREATE OR DROP VIEW / TRIGGER? These features are needed for pgAdmin II (we could also provide a patch for PhpPgAdmin). If this cannot be implemented in PostgreSQL, we will go for pseudo-modification solutions (which is definitely not a good solution). We are also waiting for a proper ALTER table DROP column but we are day dreamers... Thanks for your help and comprehension. Best regards, Jean-Michel POURE pgAdmin team ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] Package support for Postgres
I think Jean-Michael's comments were right. While I'm not sure if things will be as overwhelming as he predicted, packages (even as implimented in my patch) will help people develop code libraries for PostgreSQL. And that will make PostgreSQL applications easier. PostgreSQL is a fantastic tool which lacks a few features to become #1. IMHO, these features are : Beginners: ability to drop and reorganize columns. I know this sounds stupid for hackers, but this is #1 need when migrating from beginner tools such as MySQL or Access. Candidates? Advanced users: PACKAGE support to create and distribute software libraries. CREATE OR REPLACE VIEW, CREATE OR REPLACE TRIGGER, etc... PL/pgSQL installation by default with infinite loop protection. Professionnal user: PostgreSQL does not lack many things. Maybe server-side Java would be great in terms of object/inheritence approach. I run several databases, one being hosted on a double Pentium Linux box with U2W discs. When using triggers, views, rules and PL/pgSQL, applications can be optimized so much that you hardly reach the hardware limits. Power users: load balancing, replication, tablespace. I can't really say. I first discovered PostgreSQL when localizing Oracle8i to French. We asked Oracle if I could use their software to help us during the translation process. They answered OK, but you have to pay $xx.xxx because you have a double processor box. This was about twice the price we were getting paid. That day, I understood Oracle did not care about its users and was only interested in fast, short term profit. Cheers, Jean-Michel ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] Packages are needed
No argument here. But the proposed Oracle packages are something completely different and don't solve any of the problems you list. Hello, I agree packages are not designed primarily for library installation. I also agree packages might need dependency checking. But packages can be dumped easily and have initialization functions. Therefore, IMHO, why not use them as library installers? At the moment, there is only one PostgreSQL set of libraries available: OpenACS. On a marvelous development tool like PostgreSQL, there should be many more. Remember, MS Windows succeeded because of MS Office. What is PostgreSQL without a strong set of software libraries and applications? PostgreSQL is mostly designed by AND for hackers. This is cultural reality which I do not blame. I remember users posting features requests about ALTER TABLES DROP COLUMN. Some answers we like OK, this can be done, but what for?. Same as for packages as far as I can read the latest posts. Cheers, Jean-Michel ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Package support for Postgres
What do folks think? Take care, Bill Hello Bill, The community have been waiting for packages for a long time. I don't believe you did it!!! IMHO most applications do not fully benefit from the power of PostgreSQL because transactions are performed at application lever (PHP/asp/Java/Application server). Sometimes, libraries are mapped to database structure, which is nonsense when a simple view with left joins can solve a problem. Most applications should be developed/ported at PostgreSQL level using the full range of available tools (transactions, triggers, views, foreign keys, rules and off course PL/pgSQL). This is much easier and powerful. Then, all you need is to display information using a good object-oriented language (Java/PHP). With the help of packages, a lot of developers will probably release GPL libraries and PostgreSQL will become the #1 database in the world. At pgAdmin team, we were thinking of developing packages at client level. This is nonsense when reading your paper. The ability of defining context levels is a great feature. Question: how do you map package to PostgreSQL objects (tables, views, triggers)? Is there any possibility of defining templates? Can this be added to packages in the future with little impact on PostgreSQL internals? Now, we can only thank you for bringing Packages to PostgreSQL. Best regards, Jean-Michel POURE pgAdmin Team ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] What about CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION?
Dear all, 1) CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION In pgAdmin II, we plan to use the CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION if the patch is applied. Do you know if there is any chance it be applied for beta time? We would very much appreciate this feature... 2) PL/pgSQL default support It is sometimes tricky for Windows users to install a language remotely on a Linux box (no access to createlang and/or no knowledge of handlers). So why not enable PL/pgSQL by default? Best regards, Jean-Michel POURE ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] What about CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION?
Did we come to any conclusion about whether to accept Gavin Sherry's CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION patch? http://fts.postgresql.org/db/mw/msg.html?mid=1035792 AFAIR, the score was that I liked it, Bruce didn't, and no one else had expressed an opinion. I withdraw my objection. When I read it, I thought we were going to have CREATE FUNCTION and REPLACE FUNCTION. I later realized it is literally CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION. Looks strange, but there is no standard way to do this and we usually take the Oracle syntax when the standard doesn't specify it. Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup.| Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026 TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html Hello, Does CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION preserve function OID? What it the difference with CREATE OR ALTER FUNCTION? We would like to implement pseudo-editing of functions in pgAdmin II. Is there any solution which preserves function OID? Best regards, Jean-Michel POURE ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
[HACKERS] int4eq (xid, int4)
Hello friends, int4eq (xid, int4) seems to be needed for proper support of MS Access2K: CREATE FUNCTION int4eq (xid, int4) RETURNS bool AS 'int4eq' LANGUAGE 'internal' Is int4eq function included in PostgreSQL 7.2? Regards, Jean-Michel POURE ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
[HACKERS] Alter project: client or server side?
Hello all, And the answer is no, you can't. Recreate the table with correct types and insert the old values into it. You're kidding me, right? *prepares to gargle* MS Sql server can. Surely we can implement this feature or aren't we aiming to go head to head with commercial rdbms'? The other day, I spent 3 hours dropping old_1, old_2 and old_n fields in a test DB. But what if your table if it has triggers or foreign keys. There is a very similar problem with DROP FUNCTION / CREATE FUNCTION. If function A is based on function B and you drop function B, function A is broken. Same as for views: if view A incorporates function A and you drop function A, view A is broken. OK: what's the point then? THE POINT IS THAT WHEN YOU HAVE NESTED OBJECTS, YOU NEED TO DROP THEM ALL AND RECREATE THEM ALL. SO IF YOU WANT TO MODIFY ONE LINE OF CODE, YOU WILL PROBABLY NEED TO REBUILD ANYTHING. NORMAL HUMANS CANNOT DO THIS. MY CODE IS COMPLETE POSTGRESQL SERVER-SIDE. IN THESE CONDITIONS, THE CODE CANNOT BE OPTIMIZED ALSO BECAUSE OIDs CHANGE ALL THE TIME. The way we do it in pgAdmin I http://cvs.social-housing.org/viewcvs.cgi/pgadmin1 is that we maintain a dependency table based on STRING NAMES and not OIDs. When altering an object (view, function, trigger) we rebuild all dependent objects. Is this the way we should proceed with pgAdmin II? Is anyone planning a real dependency table based on object STRING NAMES? We need some advice: 1) Client solution: should we add the rebuilding feature to pgAdmin II? 2) Server solution: should we wait until the ALTER OBJECT project is complete? Please advice. Help needed. Vote for (1) or (2). Regards, Jean-Michel POURE pgAdmin Team http://pgadmin.postgresql.org ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [ODBC] [HACKERS] UTF-8 support
Hello, Are there built-in functions to convert UTF-8 string values into hexadecimal \u and octal values and conversely? If yes, can I parse any UTF-8 string safely with PL/pgSQL to return \u and octal values? Best regards, Jean-Michel POURE ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
[HACKERS] Alter project: client or server side?
Hello all, And the answer is no, you can't. Recreate the table with correct types and insert the old values into it. You're kidding me, right? *prepares to gargle* MS Sql server can. Surely we can implement this feature or aren't we aiming to go head to head with commercial rdbms'? The other day, I spent 3 hours dropping old_1, old_2 and old_n fields in a test DB. But what if your table if it has triggers or foreign keys. There is a very similar problem with DROP FUNCTION / CREATE FUNCTION. If function A is based on function B and you drop function B, function A is broken. Same as for views: if view A incorporates function A and you drop function A, view A is broken. OK: what's the point then? THE POINT IS THAT WHEN YOU HAVE NESTED OBJECTS, YOU NEED TO DROP THEM ALL AND RECREATE THEM ALL. SO IF YOU WANT TO MODIFY ONE LINE OF CODE, YOU WILL PROBABLY NEED TO REBUILD ANYTHING. NORMAL HUMANS CANNOT DO THIS. MY CODE IS COMPLETE POSTGRESQL SERVER-SIDE. IN THESE CONDITIONS, THE CODE CANNOT BE OPTIMIZED ALSO BECAUSE OIDs CHANGE ALL THE TIME. The way we do it in pgAdmin I http://cvs.social-housing.org/viewcvs.cgi/pgadmin1 is that we maintain a dependency table based on STRING NAMES and not OIDs. When altering an object (view, function, trigger) we rebuild all dependent objects. Is this the way we should proceed with pgAdmin II? Is anyone planning a real dependency table based on object STRING NAMES? We need some advice: 1) Client solution: should we add the rebuilding feature to pgAdmin II? 2) Server solution: should we wait until the ALTER OBJECT project is complete? Please advice. Help needed. Vote for (1) or (2). Regards, Jean-Michel POURE pgAdmin Team http://pgadmin.postgresql.org ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
[HACKERS] Storing XML in PostgreSQL
Hello friends, What is the best way to parse and store an XML document in PostgreSQL? I would like to store fwbuilder (http://www.fwbuilder.org) objects in PostgreSQL. Any information is welcome. Regards, Jean-Michel POURE pgAdmin Development Team ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
[HACKERS] Dependency tracking
Hello all, At the time of creation function body could be parsed and referenced objects stored in system table (or function could be marked as dirty and referenced objects would stored at first compilation and after each subsequent successful after-dirtied-compilation). Isn't it possible for PL/_ANY_L_ too? This is what the latest CVS version of pgAdmin does in a limited way: http://www.greatbridge.org/project/pgadmin/cvs/cvs.php/binaries/readme.html When a function is modified with DROP/CREATE, it is marked dirty. pgAdmin checks dependencies between functions, triggers and views and goes through a complete rebuilding process. My database has more than 150 PL/pgSQL functions along with views and triggers. A normal human cannot keep track of dependencies by his own means. Dave Page and I added this feature to pgAdmin because we were normal humans and could not wait too long. When will dependency tracking be available server-side? We are now working on more advanced features. See: http://www.greatbridge.org/project/pgadmin/cvs/cvs.php/pgadmin/help/todo.html Best regards, Jean-Michel POURE pgAdmin Development Team ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] Rule recompilation
IMHO we are trying to have a compiled language behave like an interpreted language. This is a bottom to top approach with no real future. Here is a proposal of a top to bottom approach. What we do in pgAdmin is that we store objects (functions, views and triggers) in separate tables called Development tables. The production objects (which you are talking about) are running safe *without* modification. At any moment, it is possible to recompile the development objects (functions, triggers and views modified by the user) from development tables. pgAdmin then checks dependencies a goes through a whole compilation process. BUT ONLY AT USER REQUEST. Who would honestly work on a production server? This is too dangerous in a professional environment. In a near future, we will offer the ability to store PostgreSQL objects on separate servers (called code repository). You will then be able to move objects from the development server to the production servers. Think of replication. Also, pgAdmin will include advanced team work features and code serialization. pgAdmin is already an *old* product as we are working on exciting new things: http://www.greatbridge.org/project/pgadmin/cvs/cvs.php/pgadmin/help/todo.html Before downloading pgAdmin from CVS, read this: http://www.greatbridge.org/project/pgadmin/cvs/cvs.php/binaries/readme.html We are looking for feedback and help from the community. Greetings from Jean-Michel POURE, Paris, France ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
[HACKERS] Re: SELECT Field1 || Field2 FROM Table
Hello Robert (Bob?), Thank you for your answer. I will surely make a wide use the COALESCE function in my scripts. I also noticed the same behaviour in PL/pgSQL: CREATE FUNCTION xx (text, text) RETURNS text AS 'BEGIN RETURN $1 || ' ' || $2; END; ' LANGUAGE 'plpgsql' Correct me if I am wrong: It seems that a NULL value is not passed to the function ... ... or is it that a NULL value is not taken into account by PL/pgSQL. Thank you all for the COALESCE trick. Greetings from Jean-Michel POURE, Paris, France pgAdmin development team ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Need Postgresql ODBC Driver
Hello Jacky, Do you whish to connect to PostgreSQL from Linux or Windows ? Windows odbc driver: ftp://ring.asahi-net.or.jp/pub/misc/db/postgresql, PHP 4.04 with PostgreSQL 7.1 drivers: http://rpms.arvin.dk/php/ Practically, you don't need ODBC drivers to connect from PHP to PostgreSQL. Also, try the other list: http://fts.postgresql.org/db/mw/ and choose INTERFACE in LIST:all. This will enable you to query the INTERFACE mailing list. If you need a good administration and development software: http://www.greatbridge.org/project/pgadmin/projdisplay.php Greetings from Jean-Michel POURE, Paris, France At 23:19 17/05/01 +0800, you wrote: Hello everyone: I am a novice in postgreSQL.So i want to get ODBC driver to connect with my program.Is there somebody can tell me where the driver can download.Or how to connect postgreSQL with PHP page in linux.Thanks. -- JACKY HSU Mail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Study in NKFUST ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Converting PL/SQL to PL/PGSQL
Hello, PgAdmin http://www.greatbridge.org/project/pgadmin/projdisplay.php is the windows administration interface of PostgreSQL. The new upcoming version features a function, trigger and view IDE. When functions are modified, it is possible to rebuild dependencies. It is the perfect tool for writing PL/PgSQL Wait a few days before it is ready... Greetings from Jean-Michel POURE, Paris, France At 12:24 09/05/01 +0200, you wrote: Hi all! I have to convert functions and procedures from Oracle to PostgreSQL. I looked at all the stuff of the Pg-Homepage and I ask me if there are any tools, that support the conversion. Writing PS/PGSQL tools seems to be a bit hard, because of the existing tool-infrastructure on linux. Are there are tools I have overseen? I have implemented the following tools for my use yet: - A WWWdb-Application for editing and testing of SQL-Procedures over a WEB-frontend - A perl-script, that does basic conversions between PL/SQL - XML - PL/PGSQL (The Procedure-definition is converted completely, the code-block a little bit) Who else is working in this area? Any tips? Regards, Klaus Visit WWWdb at http://wwwdb.org ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
[HACKERS] Important news about PgAdmin Drop/create functions, triggers and views and relink the whole system without restarting PostgreSQL
Dear friends, PgAdmin provides new features for dropping/creating functions, triggers and views and relinking the whole system without restarting PostgreSQL. By now, this new feature is only available as a patch to PgAdmin http://www.greatbridge.org/project/pgadmin/patch/patchlist.php. If you are curious reading the code, download and install the patch. Don't use the patch on production systems, because there are still a lot of bugs. Otherwise, wait until Dave Page integrates the code in the CVS. I will inform you by mail when you can start using this new feature. When all this is implemented in PgAdmin, I will also provide you with PL/pgSQL code to perform the same things server-side. By now, I don't really know if we can run all this stuff in a single transaction. Any idea? Help welcome on PgAdmin project, we need volunteers and feedback http://www.greatbridge.org/pipermail/pgadmin-hackers/. We are always looking for beta testers, new members and developers. Some great new features that will transform PgAdmin into the most advanced IDE for PostgreSQL: - query/code loader in WDDX format for use in Php/C++/Perl/VB. - postgresql packages. - syntax checking and highlighting. And also: - PL/SQL Universal Schema: a set of PL/SQL functions to administer/migrate from/to Oracle, PostgreSQL and Ms SQL Server transparently. If you are interested by PL/SQL Universal Schema, why not open a new branch on PostgreSQL CVS, otherwise I will host the project on Greatbridge. Environments such as Php or Klyx should be able to administer databases without the use of odbc and Microbsoft stuff. - PostgreSQL WDDX support (seems easy, is it really?). - I do not agree that the ALTER FUNCTION etc... should be delayed to 7.2 release. By now, it is impossible to do serious development without breaking dependencies somewhere. PostgreSQL is intended for end-users, right ? Other information: I do not work for Greatbridge, these are complete and pure GPL open source contributions. So, don't hesitate to visit http://www.greatbridge.org which provides excellent tools for developers. Greetings from Jean-Michel POURE, Paris, France Axitrad, CEO ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
[HACKERS] Foolish question about SELECT INTO rec xxx, xxxx, xxx, xxx WHERE YYYYYY ilike %$2
Hello Dave friends, I am working on the PgAdmin query loader project writing as much possible code server-side in PL/pgSQL. For the purpose of function 'compilation' (let's call it like that), I create two temporary tables: compiler_function which holds the list of PL/PgSQL functions to compile, and compiler_dependency which holds the list of dependencies. After compilation of functions, these two tables are dropped. To find function dependencies, I need to run this (problematic) query on each function: CREATE FUNCTION pgadmin_comp_dependency_init (int4, text) RETURNS int4 AS ' DECLARE /* $1 holds the function iod, $2 holds the function name.*/ rec record; v_query1 varchar; v_query2 varchar; BEGIN SELECT INTO rec compiler_function.function_oid FROM compiler_function WHERE function_source ilike %$2%; /* - $2 holds the name of the function on which is performed a dependency search. */ IF FOUND THEN /* --- The rest is OK : EXECUTE works perfectly when there is no issue in testing results*/ v_query2 := ''INSERT INTO compiler_dependency (dependency_from, dependency_to ) SELECT compiler_function.function_oid, '' || text($1) || '' FROM compiler_function WHERE function_source ilike %'' || $2 || ''%;''; execute (v_query2); RETURN 1; ELSE RETURN 0; END IF; END ; ' LANGUAGE 'plpgsql' ; My problem is that "ilike %$2%;" (line 13) does not work. PL/PgSQL thinks % is the type of $2. I tried the EXECUTE variable alternative without results. Any idea to run the 'SELECT INTO rec xxx, , xxx, xxx WHERE YY ilike %$2%' ? Is there a workaround like using a server-side function similar to ilike(varchar, varchar)-boolean ? Greeting from Jean-Michel POURE, Paris ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
[HACKERS] PL/pgSQL IDE project
Hello all, I would like to inform you all that I am currently working on the implementation of PL/pgSQL packages on both server-side (PostgreSQL 7.1) and client-side (PgAdmin). The idea is to add an PL/pgSQL Integrated Development Environment to pgadmin. Help and suggestions needed. If someone is already working on a similar project, let me know how I can help. For discussion, please register on mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list. Help and suggestions needed ! First of all, some useful resources: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/advoracle/chapter/ch02.html http://postgresql.rmplc.co.uk/devel-corner/docs/programmer/plpgsql-porting.html The basic idea behind the project is to store functions and packages in PgAdmin tables and use drop/create mechanisms to load them in the database. Here is a first analysis, do not blame in case it is imprecise: 1) Dependencies The main problem when compiling a set of functions is dependencies : - transitivity dependencies: if function B relies on function B, and function A relies on function C, the compilation should be in A, B and C order. - cross dependencies: if a function A relies on B, B relies on C and C relies on A, compilation will not work. Warnings should be sent to the user. According to http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/advoracle/chapter/ch02.html, this problem exists in Oracle databases (!!!). To avoid simple dependency problems, we need to work on isolating compiling mechanisms. This could be something like : - functions with no sub calls are compiled first, - functions with sub calls are compiled secondly, according to an automatic dependency analysis, - triggers are compiled at last, - ultimately, users should be able to define compilation order. There are maybe more simple mechanisms (???). Does pg_dump isolate functions in a precise order (???). 2) Isolate Development / Production versions For every single function, we should isolate the production version (stable) from the development version (unstable). This will help debugging and solve dependencies until the project is 'cleanly' compiled and debugged. This can be done by renaming all functions with the 'unstable_' prefix during compilation and the use of aliases. Let's see the example with functionX : - functionX is an alias that calls : stable_functionX (arg1, ...): stable version (production) unstable_functionX (arg1, ...): unstable version (development) serial1_functionX (arg1, ...), serial2_functionX (arg1, ...): archived versions of functionX Of course, this would be transparent for the developer which will only see functionX in the IDE. Switching from unstable_function to stable_function would only require to recompile the aliases. 3) Serialize package releases It should be possible to serialize packages and store/reload different releases. A logging table will provide a change log (with user names and description of changes). I do not intend to work on diffs and don't think it is possible. 4) Server-side logic Most of the logic should be developed in PL/pgSQL. On client-side, PgSchema (the new object structure of Pgadmin) will manage the whole thing. 5) Syntax checking / indenting. Has anyone heard of open-source objects handling code indenting and syntax checking ? I am not going to work on this, help needed. 6) Import / Export of packages We need a simple mechanism to import/export packages. 7) Master/Slave PL/pgSQL Server Code should be stored on a master server and distributed to slave servers through simple mechanisms. This last logic will be stored in PgSchema as I don't know how to do it with PostgreSQL itself. Any possibility to embed it in PostgreSQL (remote call ???). Looking forward to hearing from you, Greetings from Jean-Michel POURE, Paris ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://www.postgresql.org/search.mpl
[HACKERS] Do you plan an RPM release of beta 6
Hello all, Just to ask you if someone is planning to release beta 6 RPMs. I am running Redhat 7.0 test servers and the compiler is broken. Regards from Jean-Michel POURE, Paris ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
