Re: [PHP] Opinions Please, Describing PHP as Web Framework of C and C++
Robert Cummings schreef: On Tue, 2009-02-17 at 11:48 -0800, Michael A. Peters wrote: Robert Cummings wrote: I think what you all are missing is that physics is just a framework for reality. I think you are missing that reality is just a construct of strawberry fields forever. Carl Sagan once said something like to make an apple pie you must first invent the universe. It follows that the invention of reality must come before the strawberry :) it doesn't if you are the strawberry. because from that point of view the strawberry would be the I, as in the inventor of the universe, ergo the strawberry comes before in that case. obviously this is subjective, but then given that reality implies total objectivity and that we can't surmount our own subjectivity we're stuck with the fact that we cannot prove either way whether the strawberry is self-aware (i.e. it might be or it might not be). additionally, given that the subjective I/inventor/ego is required in order to invent the universe (aka 'reality' according to Rob) leaves a few questions, namely, where/what is the inventor? is 'reality' actually real or merely a subjective construct? and what are ramifications for the apple pie? if the inventor is part of (contained within) the universe in which he/she/it makes the apple pie then how does that work? did the inventor invent him/her/it-self? and if he/she/it is not contained within why does the apple pie require such a container? am I boring anyone yet? this list is a framework for utter non-sense. Cheers, Rob. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Opinions Please, Describing PHP as Web Framework of C and C++
On Wed, 2009-02-18 at 15:55 +0100, Jochem Maas wrote: Robert Cummings schreef: On Tue, 2009-02-17 at 11:48 -0800, Michael A. Peters wrote: Robert Cummings wrote: I think what you all are missing is that physics is just a framework for reality. I think you are missing that reality is just a construct of strawberry fields forever. Carl Sagan once said something like to make an apple pie you must first invent the universe. It follows that the invention of reality must come before the strawberry :) it doesn't if you are the strawberry. because from that point of view the strawberry would be the I, as in the inventor of the universe, ergo the strawberry comes before in that case. obviously this is subjective, but then given that reality implies total objectivity and that we can't surmount our own subjectivity we're stuck with the fact that we cannot prove either way whether the strawberry is self-aware (i.e. it might be or it might not be). additionally, given that the subjective I/inventor/ego is required in order to invent the universe (aka 'reality' according to Rob) leaves a few questions, namely, where/what is the inventor? is 'reality' actually real or merely a subjective construct? and what are ramifications for the apple pie? if the inventor is part of (contained within) the universe in which he/she/it makes the apple pie then how does that work? did the inventor invent him/her/it-self? and if he/she/it is not contained within why does the apple pie require such a container? am I boring anyone yet? No, we all love infinite regressions :) Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Opinions Please, Describing PHP as Web Framework of C and C++
Jochem Maas wrote: Robert Cummings schreef: On Tue, 2009-02-17 at 11:48 -0800, Michael A. Peters wrote: Robert Cummings wrote: I think what you all are missing is that physics is just a framework for reality. I think you are missing that reality is just a construct of strawberry fields forever. Carl Sagan once said something like to make an apple pie you must first invent the universe. It follows that the invention of reality must come before the strawberry :) it doesn't if you are the strawberry. because from that point of view the strawberry would be the I, as in the inventor of the universe, ergo the strawberry comes before in that case. obviously this is subjective, but then given that reality implies total objectivity and that we can't surmount our own subjectivity we're stuck with the fact that we cannot prove either way whether the strawberry is self-aware (i.e. it might be or it might not be). additionally, given that the subjective I/inventor/ego is required in order to invent the universe (aka 'reality' according to Rob) leaves a few questions, namely, where/what is the inventor? is 'reality' actually real or merely a subjective construct? and what are ramifications for the apple pie? if the inventor is part of (contained within) the universe in which he/she/it makes the apple pie then how does that work? did the inventor invent him/her/it-self? and if he/she/it is not contained within why does the apple pie require such a container? am I boring anyone yet Yet?!?! -Shawn -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Opinions Please, Describing PHP as Web Framework of C and C++
2009/2/16 Thodoris t...@kinetix.gr: In addition to this there is an API for C that can be used to code web applications and it is known as CGI (it is provided by many languages) CGI is a protocol not an API and has no specific connection to C. -Stuart I stand corrected on this. But what I meant is that it actually is a protocol that many languages are providing APIs to use it and one of them is C. Thanks for the observation Stuart. -- Thodoris
Re: [PHP] Opinions Please, Describing PHP as Web Framework of C and C++
I didn't mention that it was a C specific framework, I just said IMO it was similar to a framework for the web. It's an opinion so I can't be wrong. In my opinion earlier versions of PHP *could* (not should but could) be described as a framework in essence, however I wouldn't say that anymore since it has evolved so much. In your opinion I may be completely wrong but that's the idea of an opinion. Besides, if you cross reference your description of a framework: basically because when you use a framework (or API or whatever label you choose to use for describing it) in a language it just abstracts some aspects of the language making it easier to code. With the description of the original PHP: It had Perl-like variables, automatic interpretation of form variables and HTML embedded syntax. The syntax itself was similar to that of Perl, albeit much more limited, simple, and somewhat inconsistent. Then surely what is described is just a way of abstracting parts of the language to make it easier to code. 2009/2/16 Thodoris t...@kinetix.gr: I'd personally say that PHP was originally intended to essentially be a framework for the web, but has since evolved in to its own language. It's just my opinion though... Well you can see that some basic facts from PHP history can prove you wrong: http://www.php.net/manual/en/history.php.php Actually PHP started as a set of perl scripts and then was rewritten in C as a form interpreter. Of course you could always think what you want even if it is not a fact and the fact is that it's purpose was never to become a C or C++ API for web applications. Not to mention that there is a difference between a framework and an API. -- Thodoris Keep this on the list please -- Thodoris -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Opinions Please, Describing PHP as Web Framework of C and C++
I didn't mention that it was a C specific framework, I just said IMO it was similar to a framework for the web. It's an opinion so I can't be wrong. In my opinion earlier versions of PHP *could* (not should but could) be described as a framework in essence, however I wouldn't say that anymore since it has evolved so much. In your opinion I may be completely wrong but that's the idea of an opinion. I think that this is what you said: I prefer calling PHP as Web Framework of C and C++ Btw opinions and personal styles are always welcome. Besides, if you cross reference your description of a framework: basically because when you use a framework (or API or whatever label you choose to use for describing it) in a language it just abstracts some aspects of the language making it easier to code. That's my point meaning that PHP is not exactly abstracting C as other frameworks happen to abstract PHP. With the description of the original PHP: It had Perl-like variables, automatic interpretation of form variables and HTML embedded syntax. The syntax itself was similar to that of Perl, albeit much more limited, simple, and somewhat inconsistent. That of course was PHP and you probably have a point. Then surely what is described is just a way of abstracting parts of the language to make it easier to code. This was mentioned about a framework not PHP of course since PHP is abstracting parts of any other language. -- Thodoris -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Opinions Please, Describing PHP as Web Framework of C and C++
Recently we had some serious discussion on local boards. I prefer calling PHP as Web Framework of C and C++ if you had a time for this fruitless discussion. Please send your opinions. PHP is a server side scripting language for the Web using a C like language structure and conventions. The engine is built with C that is true but it is the engine that interprets the scripts not C. C has nothing to do with the operations of PHP engine. It is merely a code which is used to generate machine codes for the PHP engine. Good luck with your fruitless discussion as you like to call it. Virgil http://www.jampmark.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Opinions Please, Describing PHP as Web Framework of C and C++
Virgilio Quilario wrote: Recently we had some serious discussion on local boards. I prefer calling PHP as Web Framework of C and C++ if you had a time for this fruitless discussion. Please send your opinions. PHP is a server side scripting language for the Web using a C like language structure and conventions. The engine is built with C that is true but it is the engine that interprets the scripts not C. C has nothing to do with the operations of PHP engine. It is merely a code which is used to generate machine codes for the PHP engine. Good luck with your fruitless discussion as you like to call it. Virgil http://www.jampmark.com I prefer calling C and C++ as Framework of Assembly language. -- Thanks! -Shawn http://www.spidean.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Opinions Please, Describing PHP as Web Framework of C and C++
Virgilio Quilario wrote: Recently we had some serious discussion on local boards. I prefer calling PHP as Web Framework of C and C++ if you had a time for this fruitless discussion. Please send your opinions. PHP is a server side scripting language for the Web using a C like language structure and conventions. The engine is built with C that is true but it is the engine that interprets the scripts not C. C has nothing to do with the operations of PHP engine. It is merely a code which is used to generate machine codes for the PHP engine. Good luck with your fruitless discussion as you like to call it. Virgil http://www.jampmark.com I prefer calling C and C++ as Framework of Assembly language. Hahaha that was a good one Shawn. I almost fall of the chair :-) . -- Thodoris
Re: [PHP] Opinions Please, Describing PHP as Web Framework of C and C++
On Tue, 2009-02-17 at 21:05 +0200, Thodoris wrote: Virgilio Quilario wrote: Recently we had some serious discussion on local boards. I prefer calling PHP as Web Framework of C and C++ if you had a time for this fruitless discussion. Please send your opinions. PHP is a server side scripting language for the Web using a C like language structure and conventions. The engine is built with C that is true but it is the engine that interprets the scripts not C. C has nothing to do with the operations of PHP engine. It is merely a code which is used to generate machine codes for the PHP engine. Good luck with your fruitless discussion as you like to call it. Virgil http://www.jampmark.com I prefer calling C and C++ as Framework of Assembly language. Hahaha that was a good one Shawn. I almost fall of the chair :-) . What's so funny? Assembly is just a framework for microcode. Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Opinions Please, Describing PHP as Web Framework of C and C++
Robert Cummings wrote: On Tue, 2009-02-17 at 21:05 +0200, Thodoris wrote: Virgilio Quilario wrote: Recently we had some serious discussion on local boards. I prefer calling PHP as Web Framework of C and C++ if you had a time for this fruitless discussion. Please send your opinions. PHP is a server side scripting language for the Web using a C like language structure and conventions. The engine is built with C that is true but it is the engine that interprets the scripts not C. C has nothing to do with the operations of PHP engine. It is merely a code which is used to generate machine codes for the PHP engine. Good luck with your fruitless discussion as you like to call it. Virgil http://www.jampmark.com I prefer calling C and C++ as Framework of Assembly language. Hahaha that was a good one Shawn. I almost fall of the chair :-) . What's so funny? Assembly is just a framework for microcode. Cheers, Rob. So, what is the level that actually polarizes the sectors on the hard drive? Anything more abstract then that is then an API right? -- Jim Lucas Some men are born to greatness, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them. Twelfth Night, Act II, Scene V by William Shakespeare -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] Opinions Please, Describing PHP as Web Framework of C and C++
-Original Message- From: Jim Lucas [mailto:li...@cmsws.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 1:14 PM To: Robert Cummings Cc: t...@kinetix.gr; Shawn McKenzie; php-general@lists.php.net Subject: Re: [PHP] Opinions Please, Describing PHP as Web Framework of C and C++ Robert Cummings wrote: On Tue, 2009-02-17 at 21:05 +0200, Thodoris wrote: Virgilio Quilario wrote: Recently we had some serious discussion on local boards. I prefer calling PHP as Web Framework of C and C++ if you had a time for this fruitless discussion. Please send your opinions. PHP is a server side scripting language for the Web using a C like language structure and conventions. The engine is built with C that is true but it is the engine that interprets the scripts not C. C has nothing to do with the operations of PHP engine. It is merely a code which is used to generate machine codes for the PHP engine. Good luck with your fruitless discussion as you like to call it. Virgil http://www.jampmark.com I prefer calling C and C++ as Framework of Assembly language. Hahaha that was a good one Shawn. I almost fall of the chair :-) . What's so funny? Assembly is just a framework for microcode. Cheers, Rob. So, what is the level that actually polarizes the sectors on the hard drive? Anything more abstract then that is then an API right? It's all just a neat wrapper for exchanging electron positions. // Todd -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Opinions Please, Describing PHP as Web Framework of C and C++
On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Robert Cummings rob...@interjinn.com wrote: On Tue, 2009-02-17 at 21:05 +0200, Thodoris wrote: Virgilio Quilario wrote: Recently we had some serious discussion on local boards. I prefer calling PHP as Web Framework of C and C++ if you had a time for this fruitless discussion. Please send your opinions. PHP is a server side scripting language for the Web using a C like language structure and conventions. The engine is built with C that is true but it is the engine that interprets the scripts not C. C has nothing to do with the operations of PHP engine. It is merely a code which is used to generate machine codes for the PHP engine. Good luck with your fruitless discussion as you like to call it. Virgil http://www.jampmark.com I prefer calling C and C++ as Framework of Assembly language. Hahaha that was a good one Shawn. I almost fall of the chair :-) . What's so funny? Assembly is just a framework for microcode. Cheers, Rob. I guess a computer would be a framework for data processing. :-) Andrew -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Opinions Please, Describing PHP as Web Framework of C and C++
On Tue, 2009-02-17 at 14:23 -0500, Andrew Ballard wrote: On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Robert Cummings rob...@interjinn.com wrote: On Tue, 2009-02-17 at 21:05 +0200, Thodoris wrote: Virgilio Quilario wrote: Recently we had some serious discussion on local boards. I prefer calling PHP as Web Framework of C and C++ if you had a time for this fruitless discussion. Please send your opinions. PHP is a server side scripting language for the Web using a C like language structure and conventions. The engine is built with C that is true but it is the engine that interprets the scripts not C. C has nothing to do with the operations of PHP engine. It is merely a code which is used to generate machine codes for the PHP engine. Good luck with your fruitless discussion as you like to call it. Virgil http://www.jampmark.com I prefer calling C and C++ as Framework of Assembly language. Hahaha that was a good one Shawn. I almost fall of the chair :-) . What's so funny? Assembly is just a framework for microcode. Cheers, Rob. I guess a computer would be a framework for data processing. :-) I think what you all are missing is that physics is just a framework for reality. :B Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Opinions Please, Describing PHP as Web Framework of C and C++
What's so funny? Assembly is just a framework for microcode. Cheers, Rob. So, what is the level that actually polarizes the sectors on the hard drive? Anything more abstract then that is then an API right? I guess it abstracts a level but I can hardly say that microcode is actually a programming language and assembly as well. Since API is a Programming Interface it was to do with a programming language. So I have the feeling that the discretion is made on what it actually is a programming language. On the other hand the framework is usually use to describe an abstraction of the same language. That is why I don't feel right saying that PHP is actually a C framework. But probably I feel right saying Zend is a PHP framework. My problem I guess is not the abstraction itself which happens to exist in all software and hardware technology but what you abstract each time and what term you choose to use. An example that comes in mind is about networks. You can say that the http protocol is a framework of underlying tcp protocol although it is comes as an abstraction. -- Thodoris
Re: [PHP] Opinions Please, Describing PHP as Web Framework of C and C++
Robert Cummings wrote: I think what you all are missing is that physics is just a framework for reality. I think you are missing that reality is just a construct of strawberry fields forever. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Opinions Please, Describing PHP as Web Framework of C and C++
On Tue, 2009-02-17 at 11:48 -0800, Michael A. Peters wrote: Robert Cummings wrote: I think what you all are missing is that physics is just a framework for reality. I think you are missing that reality is just a construct of strawberry fields forever. Carl Sagan once said something like to make an apple pie you must first invent the universe. It follows that the invention of reality must come before the strawberry :) Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Opinions Please, Describing PHP as Web Framework of C and C++
Hello list. Recently we had some serious discussion on local boards. I prefer calling PHP as Web Framework of C and C++ if you had a time for this fruitless discussion. Please send your opinions. Regards Sancar I think that you can't assume that PHP is a C framework for the web, basically because when you use a framework (or API or whatever label you choose to use for describing it) in a language it just abstracts some aspects of the language making it easier to code. Since you can't compile PHP (as you would probably need to do with a C API) and since you don't even need C to write something in PHP you can't call it a C or C++ framework. In addition to this there is an API for C that can be used to code web applications and it is known as CGI (it is provided by many languages) PHP is coded in C and some things are similar in syntax and style but this is the only relation I can find between the two. -- Thodoris -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Opinions Please, Describing PHP as Web Framework of C and C++
I'd personally say that PHP was originally intended to essentially be a framework for the web, but has since evolved in to its own language. It's just my opinion though... 2009/2/16 Thodoris t...@kinetix.gr: Hello list. Recently we had some serious discussion on local boards. I prefer calling PHP as Web Framework of C and C++ if you had a time for this fruitless discussion. Please send your opinions. Regards Sancar I think that you can't assume that PHP is a C framework for the web, basically because when you use a framework (or API or whatever label you choose to use for describing it) in a language it just abstracts some aspects of the language making it easier to code. Since you can't compile PHP (as you would probably need to do with a C API) and since you don't even need C to write something in PHP you can't call it a C or C++ framework. In addition to this there is an API for C that can be used to code web applications and it is known as CGI (it is provided by many languages) PHP is coded in C and some things are similar in syntax and style but this is the only relation I can find between the two. -- Thodoris -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Opinions Please, Describing PHP as Web Framework of C and C++
I'd personally say that PHP was originally intended to essentially be a framework for the web, but has since evolved in to its own language. It's just my opinion though... Well you can see that some basic facts from PHP history can prove you wrong: http://www.php.net/manual/en/history.php.php Actually PHP started as a set of perl scripts and then was rewritten in C as a form interpreter. Of course you could always think what you want even if it is not a fact and the fact is that it's purpose was never to become a C or C++ API for web applications. Not to mention that there is a difference between a framework and an API. -- Thodoris -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Opinions Please, Describing PHP as Web Framework of C and C++
2009/2/16 Thodoris t...@kinetix.gr: In addition to this there is an API for C that can be used to code web applications and it is known as CGI (it is provided by many languages) CGI is a protocol not an API and has no specific connection to C. -Stuart -- http://stut.net/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Opinions Please, Describing PHP as Web Framework of C and C++
I thought its an interface as in Common Gateway Interface. :-P You are right it isn't a specific connection to C. CGI can basically be used with any language. A protocol to me is something like TCP/IP or http etc. Like a language between a network of nodes. Tim-Hinnerk Heuer http://www.ihostnz.com Katharine Hepburn - Life is hard. After all, it kills you. 2009/2/17 Stuart stut...@gmail.com 2009/2/16 Thodoris t...@kinetix.gr: In addition to this there is an API for C that can be used to code web applications and it is known as CGI (it is provided by many languages) CGI is a protocol not an API and has no specific connection to C. -Stuart -- http://stut.net/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Opinions Please, Describing PHP as Web Framework of C and C++
2009/2/16 German Geek geek...@gmail.com: I thought its an interface as in Common Gateway Interface. :-P You are right it isn't a specific connection to C. CGI can basically be used with any language. A protocol to me is something like TCP/IP or http etc. Like a language between a network of nodes. A protocol in computer science is defined as rules determining the format and transmission of data. CGI is a protocol defining the format and transmission of data between two entities, most commonly an HTTP server and an executable of some sort. It has no connection to TCP/IP, HTTP or networks in general. -Stuart -- http://stut.net/ 2009/2/17 Stuart stut...@gmail.com 2009/2/16 Thodoris t...@kinetix.gr: In addition to this there is an API for C that can be used to code web applications and it is known as CGI (it is provided by many languages) CGI is a protocol not an API and has no specific connection to C. -Stuart -- http://stut.net/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Opinions Please, Describing PHP as Web Framework of C and C++
Hello list. Recently we had some serious discussion on local boards. I prefer calling PHP as Web Framework of C and C++ if you had a time for this fruitless discussion. Please send your opinions. Regards Sancar -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Opinions Please, Describing PHP as Web Framework of C and C++
Sancar Saran wrote: Hello list. Recently we had some serious discussion on local boards. I prefer calling PHP as Web Framework of C and C++ PHP is a scripting language with syntactical roots in C. /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (-3.5°C) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
