Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On 28/07/07, Larry Garfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If indirectly affecting the market so that prices change counts as stealing, then Coke and Pepsi build their business models around stealing from each other. Apache/PHP/MySQL are then stealing actual money from Microsoft, because they reduces sales of Windows, IIS, Visual Studio, and MS SQL Server. Great, so that means we should shut down Pepsi to stop them from stealing from Coke, and shut down PHP to stop them from stealing from Microsoft! I would say that shows just what pathetically laughable bullshit that argument is, except that Microsoft has made it publicly before, albeit phrased as defending capitalism. You see why I find it so offensive? Ah, so you are saying that by pirating software/books/music you are creating market competition, which drives the producers to produce higher quality content at affordable prices. I feel so stupid that I didn't see it that way from the beginning. Dotan Cohen http://lyricslist.com/ http://what-is-what.com/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On Fri, July 27, 2007 6:28 pm, Larry Garfield wrote: On Friday 27 July 2007, Richard Lynch wrote: If indirectly affecting the market so that prices change counts as stealing, then Coke and Pepsi build their business models around stealing from each other. Apache/PHP/MySQL are then stealing actual money from Microsoft, because they reduces sales of Windows, IIS, Visual Studio, and MS SQL Server. Great, so that means we should shut down Pepsi to stop them from stealing from Coke, and shut down PHP to stop them from stealing from Microsoft! This is a laughable argument. Infringing on copyright is simply not comparable to providing a similar product in whatever business model or under whatever terms one likes. If Pepsi went and STOLE the Coke formula and started trying to sell Koch you can be damn sure there would be a lawsuit. I would say that shows just what pathetically laughable bullshit that argument is, except that Microsoft has made it publicly before, albeit phrased as defending capitalism. You see why I find it so offensive? Microsoft stupidity and/or behaviour is not a legitimate defense for any activity. :-) -- Some people have a gift link here. Know what I want? I want you to buy a CD from some indie artist. http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch Yeah, I get a buck. So? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On Wed, July 25, 2007 5:15 am, David Powers wrote: Richard Lynch wrote: At no point did I intend to sound unsympathetic to your plight! I only wanted to make it clear that 99.9% of musicians are in the same boat with you, despite what you read in the newspapers. Understood. I simply want to lay to rest the idea that piracy is somehow OK because it's getting back at the big boys, who can afford it anyway. Piracy also hits hard-working individuals, to whom the loss of income usually does make a difference. Piracy does not hurt the big boys in the least bit. They simply jack up the price for honest folk. You're only stealing, yes, Larry, actual money :-), from hard-working individuals who pay MORE for their legit copy when you pirate. That is the end effect. That is why it really IS theft. :-) :-) :-) -- Some people have a gift link here. Know what I want? I want you to buy a CD from some indie artist. http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch Yeah, I get a buck. So? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On Mon, July 23, 2007 6:00 am, David Powers wrote: The Harry Potter books have sold an estimated 325 million copies. Even if the author gets only 10 cents a book, that adds up to $32.5 million. I'm sure she gets a lot more than 10 cents a book, but it's the number of books sold that makes the real difference, not the amount per book. Harry Potter also generates a lot of money through Hollywood movie rights. It's hard to imagine the same with a book about PHP. ;-) Okay, so now we have to decide who plays whom in PHP History, the movie. Rasmus Lerdorf: Bruce Willis Ze'ev Suraski: Donald Sutherland, only he's too old now... What's his kid's name? Andi Gutmans: Daniel [mumble] (Harry Potter) looks about right, by the time he finishes HP movie #7 Anybody else? :-) -- Some people have a gift link here. Know what I want? I want you to buy a CD from some indie artist. http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch Yeah, I get a buck. So? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On Mon, July 23, 2007 4:41 am, Sancar Saran wrote: Those publishers ripping the authors then they blame the pirates... Real steal was %95 of book prices Do feel free to start your own publishing company and print up some books at prices you consider more fair. -- Some people have a gift link here. Know what I want? I want you to buy a CD from some indie artist. http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch Yeah, I get a buck. So? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On 27/07/07, Richard Lynch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Piracy does not hurt the big boys in the least bit. They simply jack up the price for honest folk. You're only stealing, yes, Larry, actual money :-), from hard-working individuals who pay MORE for their legit copy when you pirate. That's me. I pay for your copy. I'm the fool. I'm the idiot who pays for eveybody. That is the end effect. That is why it really IS theft. Dotan Cohen http://lyricslist.com/ http://what-is-what.com/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: Re[2]: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On 27/07/07, David Robley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of course, one should not forgot Debbie Does DocType... I guess that would have an opening scene with dialog something like: I hope you don't mind me sharing memory while you are processing an array as the processor flicks garbage collected data into /dev/null Just thinking about it overflows my buffer. Dotan Cohen http://lyricslist.com/ http://what-is-what.com/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: Re[2]: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
Dotan Cohen wrote: On 24/07/07, Ryan A [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Php Fiction? Rasmus's List? Codin' in the Rain? LOL! That was good! Thanks needed that! Of course, one should not forgot Debbie Does DocType... Dotan Cohen Now you owe me a new keyboard that isn't full of a mouthful of beer :-) I guess that would have an opening scene with dialog something like: I hope you don't mind me sharing memory while you are processing an array as the processor flicks garbage collected data into /dev/null Cheers -- David Robley Plankton lobbyist: NUKE THE WHALES! Today is Pungenday, the 62nd day of Confusion in the YOLD 3173. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
Hey, They simply jack up the price for honest folk. You're only stealing, yes, Larry, actual money :-), from hard-working individuals who pay MORE for their legit copy when you pirate. That is the end effect. That is why it really IS theft. Since this has been done to death in the last few days about piracy actually being theft, wont say much except, I for one; disagree. Cheers! R -- - The faulty interface lies between the chair and the keyboard. - Creativity is great, but plagiarism is faster! - Smile, everyone loves a moron. :-) Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On Friday 27 July 2007, Richard Lynch wrote: Understood. I simply want to lay to rest the idea that piracy is somehow OK because it's getting back at the big boys, who can afford it anyway. Piracy also hits hard-working individuals, to whom the loss of income usually does make a difference. Piracy does not hurt the big boys in the least bit. They simply jack up the price for honest folk. You're only stealing, yes, Larry, actual money :-), from hard-working individuals who pay MORE for their legit copy when you pirate. That is the end effect. That is why it really IS theft. If indirectly affecting the market so that prices change counts as stealing, then Coke and Pepsi build their business models around stealing from each other. Apache/PHP/MySQL are then stealing actual money from Microsoft, because they reduces sales of Windows, IIS, Visual Studio, and MS SQL Server. Great, so that means we should shut down Pepsi to stop them from stealing from Coke, and shut down PHP to stop them from stealing from Microsoft! I would say that shows just what pathetically laughable bullshit that argument is, except that Microsoft has made it publicly before, albeit phrased as defending capitalism. You see why I find it so offensive? -- Larry Garfield AIM: LOLG42 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 6817012 If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it. -- Thomas Jefferson -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: Re[2]: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On 25/07/07, Auto-Deppe, C. Haensel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 25/07/07, tedd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, I've been up for 48 hours -- it's a boy, 8 lb 9 oz -- time to get some sleep. Maybe tomorrow my son will finally decide on a name -- the ninth grand-kid. Maybe he'll name him Rasmus. God, I hope not. :-) Public congratulations. Our home was blessed with a baby girl just about 6 months ago. Therefore, we also do not sleep... Dotan Cohen http://lyricslist.com/ http://what-is-what.com/ Well, I just learned yesterday that my girlfriend is 5th week pregnant... seems like us programmers and our biological output are very healthy people *g* Gosh, I'm so nervous... it's our first child, and I know it's gonna be much harder than learning to code and even more fun to bring something on the screen. Raising a baby is like working with Windows: every error returns the same error message (wah). Troubleshotting is simply saying OK, OK, OK [, FINISH] to the wife whenever she's talking about the baby. And instead of sleeping at night, you're up trying to fix something that you don't understand. I bet his/her first words will be Hello World *g* :) That will be quoted much by me in the future... All the best mates! Chris (the guy with the HUGE smile on his face) Dotan Cohen http://lyricslist.com/ http://what-is-what.com/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On Wed 25 Jul 07 03:09, tedd wrote: Nah, let's make it a brain teaser. Where can these be found? The Little Rasmus O Rasmus, Rasmus, where art thou Rasmus? Rasmus?! Rasmus?! We don't need no stinking Rasmus. Reading, writing, and Rasmus Four score and seven Rasmus ago... In the beginning there was Rasmus, and it was good. We have nothing to Rasmus but Rasmus itself. Catch a Rasmus by it's toe.. In Rasmus we trust. Frankly Rasmus, I don't give a damn. The Rasmus Zone. The Howdy Rasmus show. Have Rasmus will Travel. The land that Rasmus forgot. Znane Rasmus Fifteen minutes of Rasmus. Sixty seconds over Rasmus. some popular PHP scifi movies.. Close encounters with the Rasmus Kind. The Rasmus. (hint matrix). *top seller* Rasmus, the Last Frontier Back to the Rasmus part I, II and III Rasminator I,II and III The Rasmus Identity, Twelve Rasmuses Rasmus Runner 2001 A Rasmus Odyessey Planet of the Rasmuses E.T. The Extra TerRasmustrial Donnie Rasmus Spider-Rasmus (and Super Rasmus) The IncrediRasmusbles The Fifth Rasmus Dr Strangerasmus Invasion of the Rasmus Snatchers Star Trek II - The Wrath of Rasmus I vote for Rasmus as President! He can Lead AND Read! -- Eddie Dunckley - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Realtime Travel Connections IBE Development, www.rttc.co.za, cell 083-379-6891, fax 086-617-7831 Where 33deg53'37.23S 18deg37'57.87E Cape Town Bellville Oakdale ZA All power corrupts, but we need electricity. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On 25/07/07, Eddie Dunckley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed 25 Jul 07 05:36, Dotan Cohen wrote: On 25/07/07, tedd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, I've been up for 48 hours -- it's a boy, 8 lb 9 oz -- time to get some sleep. Maybe tomorrow my son will finally decide on a name -- the ninth grand-kid. Maybe he'll name him Rasmus. God, I hope not. :-) Public congratulations. Our home was blessed with a baby girl just about 6 months ago. Therefore, we also do not sleep... Dotan Cohen Congrats to both of you! Now lets hope she/he doesnt drool over your original PHP books! ;) You're right... Maybe it's time for one of those spillproof keyboards... Dotan Cohen http://lyricslist.com/ http://what-is-what.com/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
Richard Lynch wrote: At no point did I intend to sound unsympathetic to your plight! I only wanted to make it clear that 99.9% of musicians are in the same boat with you, despite what you read in the newspapers. Understood. I simply want to lay to rest the idea that piracy is somehow OK because it's getting back at the big boys, who can afford it anyway. Piracy also hits hard-working individuals, to whom the loss of income usually does make a difference. David Powers -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: Re[2]: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online? OT
[snip] Sorry, I've been up for 48 hours -- it's a boy, 8 lb 9 oz -- time to get some sleep. Maybe tomorrow my son will finally decide on a name -- the ninth grand-kid. Maybe he'll name him Rasmus. God, I hope not. :-) [/snip] Congrats! How about Tedd II - Electric Boogaloo (yes, I know, I am stuck on a theme) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On 25/07/07, Robert Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rasmus does Dallas I, II, and III Tsk, tsk, Debbie Does DocType has already been mentioned... I don't remember any other php-general thread going over 200 messages before. This is turning into fedora-users... Dotan Cohen http://lyricslist.com/ http://what-is-what.com/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On Wed, 2007-07-25 at 08:57 +0200, Eddie Dunckley wrote: some popular PHP scifi movies.. Close encounters with the Rasmus Kind. The Rasmus. (hint matrix). *top seller* Rasmus, the Last Frontier Back to the Rasmus part I, II and III Rasminator I,II and III The Rasmus Identity, Twelve Rasmuses Rasmus Runner 2001 A Rasmus Odyessey Planet of the Rasmuses E.T. The Extra TerRasmustrial Donnie Rasmus Spider-Rasmus (and Super Rasmus) The IncrediRasmusbles The Fifth Rasmus Dr Strangerasmus Invasion of the Rasmus Snatchers Star Trek II - The Wrath of Rasmus Rasmus does Dallas I, II, and III Oh sorry, you're doing sci-fi... oh well :B Cheers, Rob. -- ... SwarmBuy.com - http://www.swarmbuy.com Leveraging the buying power of the masses! ... -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: Re[2]: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
--- Dotan Cohen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 24/07/07, Ryan A [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Php Fiction? Rasmus's List? Codin' in the Rain? LOL! That was good! Thanks needed that! Of course, one should not forgot Debbie Does DocType... Ok... I get it, I'm a geek for laughing out loud at that.. -- - The faulty interface lies between the chair and the keyboard. - Creativity is great, but plagiarism is faster! - Smile, everyone loves a moron. :-) Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: Re[2]: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
--- Robert Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 2007-07-24 at 21:09 -0400, tedd wrote: Sorry, I've been up for 48 hours -- it's a boy, 8 lb 9 oz -- time to get some sleep. Maybe tomorrow my son will finally decide on a name -- the ninth grand-kid. Maybe he'll name him Rasmus. God, I hope not. :-) Congrats! I hope the kid has the best of health! -- - The faulty interface lies between the chair and the keyboard. - Creativity is great, but plagiarism is faster! - Smile, everyone loves a moron. :-) Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos more. http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On Wed, 2007-07-25 at 17:24 +0300, Dotan Cohen wrote: On 25/07/07, Robert Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rasmus does Dallas I, II, and III Tsk, tsk, Debbie Does DocType has already been mentioned... Bah, I missed it :) Cheers, Rob. -- ... SwarmBuy.com - http://www.swarmbuy.com Leveraging the buying power of the masses! ... -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: Re[2]: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
At 9:36 AM +0300 7/25/07, Dotan Cohen wrote: Raising a baby is like working with Windows: every error returns the same error message (wah). Troubleshotting is simply saying OK, OK, OK [, FINISH] to the wife whenever she's talking about the baby. And instead of sleeping at night, you're up trying to fix something that you don't understand. Boy did those get a laugh out of me -- each could be a notable quote. Working with Windows is like raising a baby: every error returns the same error message (wah). LOL! Outstanding! Thanks for sharing. tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: Re[2]: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online? OT
At 6:50 AM -0500 7/25/07, Jay Blanchard wrote: [snip] Sorry, I've been up for 48 hours -- it's a boy, 8 lb 9 oz -- time to get some sleep. Maybe tomorrow my son will finally decide on a name -- the ninth grand-kid. Maybe he'll name him Rasmus. God, I hope not. :-) [/snip] Congrats! How about Tedd II - Electric Boogaloo (yes, I know, I am stuck on a theme) Thanks, but you did hit on an interesting family custom. My father's name was Theodore, but went by the name of Ted. He hated the name Theodore, but liked Ted. Throughout his life people kept telling him that his name was short for Theodore. So, when it came to naming me, he added and extra d and made it Tedd so people couldn't confuse it with Theodore. When I had a son, I considered naming him Teddd, but thought it might be a bit strange. I don't use Tedd anymore, because that was my previous life when I used to have purpose. Now a simpler tedd has risen from the ashes with no purpose whatsoever -- it makes life so much easier. Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: Re[2]: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online? OT
Hey, I don't use Tedd anymore, because that was my previous life when I used to have purpose. For what its worth, I do think your life has a purpose and you are living it, I for one would be quite sad if I didnt see any more postings from you on this list and would miss you... as would quite a few others on this list. Infact everytime i see a shopping cart thread I think of you ;) and wouldnt hesitate to recommend you for the job. I am sure your family and friends would be quite upset if they heard the above sentance as you (I am sure) have quite a purpose in their lives. You told me before life dealt you a bad card, but I think you have bounced back quite a bit from when it happened, things may never be exactly the same as before that card... but I seriously doubt that you have not impacted others after that happened. HTH... just my humble opinion. Cheers! R -- - The faulty interface lies between the chair and the keyboard. - Creativity is great, but plagiarism is faster! - Smile, everyone loves a moron. :-) Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos more. http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: Re[2]: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On 24/07/07, tedd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How about Rasmus Lerdorf, Lord of the Code I think we could go on and on with this. Php Fiction? Rasmus's List? Codin' in the Rain? Dotan Cohen http://lyricslist.com/ http://what-is-what.com/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
[snip] Rasmus Lerdorf and the Deathly Hallows Rasmus Lerdorf and the Order of the PHP Rasmus Lerdorf and the Order of Function Arguments Rasmus Lerdorf, Lord of the Code Rasmus Lerdorf and the Half-Assed Coder [/snip] Rasmus Lerdorf and The Coders're Stoned Arrays 11 Lerdorf - A PHPdoc Autobiography PHP 5 - The Object Strikes Back Revenge of the Nerds II - PHP in Paradise PHP Too - Electric Boogaloo -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: Re[2]: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On Tuesday 24 July 2007 06:12, tedd wrote: How about Rasmus Lerdorf, Lord of the Code I thought it was supposed to be based on a Potter book? How about Rasmus Lerdorf, Prisoner of ASP. -- Crayon -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On Tuesday 24 July 2007 06:02, Ryan A wrote: Instead of clip tags, I recommend that you configure your mail client to prepend a greater than sign to quotes. It's rather customary, if not standard. Sorry about that, its driving me crazy too. I have to manually do it if I want it (like above). It used to work before... then suddenly it just does not... anybody have any idea which setting I should tinker with in yahoo, please give me a shout. Options Mail Preferences Replying = Include full message should be the one. -- Crayon -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: Re[2]: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
Php Fiction? Rasmus's List? Codin' in the Rain? LOL! That was good! Thanks needed that! Cheers! R -- - The faulty interface lies between the chair and the keyboard. - Creativity is great, but plagiarism is faster! - Smile, everyone loves a moron. :-) - Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.
Re: Re[2]: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On 24/07/07, Ryan A [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Php Fiction? Rasmus's List? Codin' in the Rain? LOL! That was good! Thanks needed that! Of course, one should not forgot Debbie Does DocType... Dotan Cohen http://lyricslist.com/ http://what-is-what.com/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: Re[2]: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
At 12:13 AM +0800 7/25/07, Crayon Shin Chan wrote: On Tuesday 24 July 2007 06:12, tedd wrote: How about Rasmus Lerdorf, Lord of the Code I thought it was supposed to be based on a Potter book? Nah, let's make it a brain teaser. Where can these be found? The Little Rasmus O Rasmus, Rasmus, where art thou Rasmus? Rasmus?! Rasmus?! We don't need no stinking Rasmus. Reading, writing, and Rasmus Four score and seven Rasmus ago... In the beginning there was Rasmus, and it was good. We have nothing to Rasmus but Rasmus itself. Catch a Rasmus by it's toe.. In Rasmus we trust. Frankly Rasmus, I don't give a damn. The Rasmus Zone. The Howdy Rasmus show. Have Rasmus will Travel. The land that Rasmus forgot. Znane Rasmus Fifteen minutes of Rasmus. Sixty seconds over Rasmus. Sorry, I've been up for 48 hours -- it's a boy, 8 lb 9 oz -- time to get some sleep. Maybe tomorrow my son will finally decide on a name -- the ninth grand-kid. Maybe he'll name him Rasmus. God, I hope not. :-) Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On Tuesday 24 July 2007, tedd wrote: Sorry, I've been up for 48 hours -- it's a boy, 8 lb 9 oz -- time to get some sleep. Maybe tomorrow my son will finally decide on a name -- the ninth grand-kid. Maybe he'll name him Rasmus. God, I hope not. :-) Cheers, tedd Yay, congrats! -- Larry Garfield AIM: LOLG42 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 6817012 If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it. -- Thomas Jefferson -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: Re[2]: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On Tue, 2007-07-24 at 21:09 -0400, tedd wrote: Sorry, I've been up for 48 hours -- it's a boy, 8 lb 9 oz -- time to get some sleep. Maybe tomorrow my son will finally decide on a name -- the ninth grand-kid. Maybe he'll name him Rasmus. God, I hope not. :-) Wooho! Congratulations Gramps! :) Cheers, Rob. -- ... SwarmBuy.com - http://www.swarmbuy.com Leveraging the buying power of the masses! ... -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: Re[2]: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On 25/07/07, tedd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, I've been up for 48 hours -- it's a boy, 8 lb 9 oz -- time to get some sleep. Maybe tomorrow my son will finally decide on a name -- the ninth grand-kid. Maybe he'll name him Rasmus. God, I hope not. :-) Public congratulations. Our home was blessed with a baby girl just about 6 months ago. Therefore, we also do not sleep... Dotan Cohen http://lyricslist.com/ http://what-is-what.com/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On Sat, July 21, 2007 3:34 am, Crayon Shin Chan wrote: On Saturday 21 July 2007 16:20, Jim Lucas wrote: more then likely, recycling a stack of newspapers would cost more then running my computer for a month. Also reminds me of how some people (especially Americans) who drive miles and miles in their big gas-guzzling SUVs so they could drop off their recyclables at a recycling centre. Yeah, man, just put it out in a separate bag for the homeless guy to pick up easily so he doesn't have to dump out your whole trash bin to find the aluminum cans! Oh. Maybe it works different in other 'hoods... :-v -- Some people have a gift link here. Know what I want? I want you to buy a CD from some indie artist. http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch Yeah, I get a buck. So? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On Sat, July 21, 2007 6:42 am, David Powers wrote: Richard Lynch wrote: I've got a pretty good idea what your advance was, and what your royalties are. I'm under no illusion that the 2,000+ downloads of my book would have turned into legitimate sales if illegal copies weren't available. But writing about PHP is a highly competitive niche market. Any loss of sales is unwelcome. At no point did I intend to sound unsympathetic to your plight! I only wanted to make it clear that 99.9% of musicians are in the same boat with you, despite what you read in the newspapers. -- Some people have a gift link here. Know what I want? I want you to buy a CD from some indie artist. http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch Yeah, I get a buck. So? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
This is sucks, Those publishers ripping the authors then they blame the pirates... Real steal was %95 of book prices Regards Sancar -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On Monday 23 July 2007 08:45, Ryan A wrote: Disagree again, if Adam uploads or not, there is a whole bunch of stuff out there that he cant hope to download in a lifetime. It was never mentioned *when* Adam uploaded his file, it could've been when the site first started out and uploads then were lacking. Even if you are member of a torrent site, you dont have to upload to download files once you finish your download you can continue to share (seed) the file to others (if you need to mantain your up/down ratio). Not everyone who downloads uploads new files.. Leechers would always outnumber the contributors, but apparently Adam is a responsible member of the community who gives as well as take. -- Crayon -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
Sancar Saran wrote: Those publishers ripping the authors then they blame the pirates... Real steal was %95 of book prices No, the author gets 10% of what the publisher gets. If you look at prices on Amazon or other online bookstores, you'll see that 35-40% discount is common. So, a $40 book often sells for $26 or less. Delivery within the same country is frequently free, so that's a cost that gets deducted. Amazon also pays a commission to websites with affiliate links. So the publisher ends up with less than $20. Publishing a book involves a lot of people: not just the author, but at least one technical reviewer, editor, copy editor, indexer, compositor (who lays out the pages), designer, and printer. Printed books also need to be transported and stored. The costs quickly mount up. EBooks are cheaper to produce because there's no cost for printing or storage, but a professionally produced eBook still takes a huge amount of human effort. Unfortunately, an eBook is very easy for a pirate to rip off. The danger with piracy is that authors will be discouraged from writing, and in the end everyone will be worse off. David Powers -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On Monday 23 July 2007 12:20:50 David Powers wrote: Sancar Saran wrote: Those publishers ripping the authors then they blame the pirates... Real steal was %95 of book prices No, the author gets 10% of what the publisher gets. If you look at prices on Amazon or other online bookstores, you'll see that 35-40% discount is common. So, a $40 book often sells for $26 or less. Delivery within the same country is frequently free, so that's a cost that gets deducted. Amazon also pays a commission to websites with affiliate links. So the publisher ends up with less than $20. Publishing a book involves a lot of people: not just the author, but at least one technical reviewer, editor, copy editor, indexer, compositor (who lays out the pages), designer, and printer. Printed books also need to be transported and stored. The costs quickly mount up. EBooks are cheaper to produce because there's no cost for printing or storage, but a professionally produced eBook still takes a huge amount of human effort. Unfortunately, an eBook is very easy for a pirate to rip off. The danger with piracy is that authors will be discouraged from writing, and in the end everyone will be worse off. David Powers It was still ripping, They got 18 USD you got 2 USD. This is sucks. I'm not sure author of Harry Potter acceps same condition. You made everyone rich except yourself... Regards Sancar -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
Sancar Saran wrote: It was still ripping, They got 18 USD you got 2 USD. Out of that $18, the publisher has to pay the editor, copy editor, technical reviewer, compositor, printer, etc, etc. Unless the book sells several thousand copies, the publisher normally makes a loss. I'm not sure author of Harry Potter acceps same condition. The Harry Potter books have sold an estimated 325 million copies. Even if the author gets only 10 cents a book, that adds up to $32.5 million. I'm sure she gets a lot more than 10 cents a book, but it's the number of books sold that makes the real difference, not the amount per book. Harry Potter also generates a lot of money through Hollywood movie rights. It's hard to imagine the same with a book about PHP. ;-) You made everyone rich except yourself... I don't mind others making money out of my books, as long as they have contributed to them in a positive way. Publishing books involves a lot of people. They all need to be paid. The publisher takes a gamble, paying everybody up front before a single copy is sold. Since most books make a loss, it's reasonable for the publisher to take a share of the profit of successful books. As far as an author is concerned, the deal lies in royalties. The more books you sell, the more you get. I also get a higher share of the profit if the book sells more than a specified amount. David Powers -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
Hmmm PHP: Order of Objects PHP: Deadly functions Oh never mind. I think we still missing the point main purpose of those books spreading the information. The other things have to come second. Only editor was you. Without you all of them useless. I thing they set up good game here. You believe all this mumbo jumbo to generate and bring your content to people. Ironically publishers can't bring your content much more people than pirates. On Monday 23 July 2007 14:00:31 David Powers wrote: Sancar Saran wrote: It was still ripping, They got 18 USD you got 2 USD. Out of that $18, the publisher has to pay the editor, copy editor, technical reviewer, compositor, printer, etc, etc. Unless the book sells several thousand copies, the publisher normally makes a loss. I'm not sure author of Harry Potter acceps same condition. The Harry Potter books have sold an estimated 325 million copies. Even if the author gets only 10 cents a book, that adds up to $32.5 million. I'm sure she gets a lot more than 10 cents a book, but it's the number of books sold that makes the real difference, not the amount per book. Harry Potter also generates a lot of money through Hollywood movie rights. It's hard to imagine the same with a book about PHP. ;-) You made everyone rich except yourself... I don't mind others making money out of my books, as long as they have contributed to them in a positive way. Publishing books involves a lot of people. They all need to be paid. The publisher takes a gamble, paying everybody up front before a single copy is sold. Since most books make a loss, it's reasonable for the publisher to take a share of the profit of successful books. As far as an author is concerned, the deal lies in royalties. The more books you sell, the more you get. I also get a higher share of the profit if the book sells more than a specified amount. David Powers Regards Sancar -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
Sancar Saran wrote: I think we still missing the point main purpose of those books spreading the information. The other things have to come second. Everybody has to eat. If spreading information means I can't afford to eat, I'll stop writing books. It's as simple as that. Ironically publishers can't bring your content much more people than pirates. The same would happen if I did everything myself. Within days of self-publishing a eBook, it would be on a pirate site. At least with a publisher, legal copies do get sold, and I do get a return on the time invested, even though it's not as much as I would like. David Powers -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On Monday 23 July 2007, David Powers wrote: Sancar Saran wrote: It was still ripping, They got 18 USD you got 2 USD. Out of that $18, the publisher has to pay the editor, copy editor, technical reviewer, compositor, printer, etc, etc. Unless the book sells several thousand copies, the publisher normally makes a loss. I'm not sure author of Harry Potter acceps same condition. The Harry Potter books have sold an estimated 325 million copies. Even if the author gets only 10 cents a book, that adds up to $32.5 million. I'm sure she gets a lot more than 10 cents a book, but it's the number of books sold that makes the real difference, not the amount per book. Harry Potter also generates a lot of money through Hollywood movie rights. It's hard to imagine the same with a book about PHP. ;-) So when does Rasmus Lerdorf and the Deathly Hallows open in theaters? :-) I'd so go see that opening weekend... -- Larry Garfield AIM: LOLG42 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 6817012 If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it. -- Thomas Jefferson -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On Monday 23 July 2007 22:26, Larry Garfield wrote: So when does Rasmus Lerdorf and the Deathly Hallows open in theaters? They've got to make Rasmus Lerdorf and the Order of the PHP first. -- Crayon -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On Mon, 2007-07-23 at 23:09 +0800, Crayon Shin Chan wrote: On Monday 23 July 2007 22:26, Larry Garfield wrote: So when does Rasmus Lerdorf and the Deathly Hallows open in theaters? They've got to make Rasmus Lerdorf and the Order of the PHP first. But before that comes Rasmus Lerdorf and the Programmer's Stone. Cheers, Rob. -- ... SwarmBuy.com - http://www.swarmbuy.com Leveraging the buying power of the masses! ... -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re[2]: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
Hi Crayon, Monday, July 23, 2007, 4:09:57 PM, you wrote: On Monday 23 July 2007 22:26, Larry Garfield wrote: So when does Rasmus Lerdorf and the Deathly Hallows open in theaters? They've got to make Rasmus Lerdorf and the Order of the PHP first. Or even Rasmus Lerdorf and the Order of Function Arguments :) Cheers, Rich -- Zend Certified Engineer http://www.corephp.co.uk Never trust a computer you can't throw out of a window -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
Hey, clip The same would happen if I did everything myself. Within days of self-publishing a eBook, it would be on a pirate site. At least with a publisher, legal copies do get sold, and I do get a return on the time invested, even though it's not as much as I would like. /clip Also depends on how popular your site is... coz for example if your site is really popular... say 30k uniques a day, then making an ebook would be great as even though it would get pirated (by the way, check out the digital copies of harry potter if you're into that...(i'm not) how many days has it been since the release?) And as for not getting as much as you would like... thats just human nature, whatever you get wouldnt really be enough unless its some really crazy number. clip Unfortunately, an eBook is very easy for a pirate to rip off. The danger with piracy is that authors will be discouraged from writing, and in the end everyone will be worse off. /clip Discouraged...yes, stop writing...no. Coz looking at history... we still have movies and music dont we? In both normal and disc form. Lets face it, however much time and effort goes into getting a book from the authors first copy to a proper book cant compare (in $$) to what it takes to get a movie from script to screen. clip crayon Disagree again, if Adam uploads or not, there is a whole bunch of stuff out there that he cant hope to download in a lifetime. It was never mentioned *when* Adam uploaded his file, it could've been when the site first started out and uploads then were lacking. /clip crayon Time is irrelevant, because unless the site is Adam's site, or he is in some way connected to it... he can go to X number of sites and get more files than he could possibly see in a lifetime. clip kelvin Imagine that you're stealing a software from best buy or just walking out with tons of unpaid books from Barnes and noble. Piracy should be considered the same thing. If someone can't afford expensive corporate software I believe there are a lot of other similar open source software that can do just as good and useful. /clip kelvin The comparasion of stealing from a shop and taking digitally has been already done to death on this very thread so I'm not going to go there... start around july 20 in the archives if you're curious. As to your second point of when someone cant afford the software they should just switch to a similar one... from what i gather from my friends, they do it for the following reasons: 1. For the thrill, they are getting away with it 2. They are defying and hence hitting back at one of the big boys...like M$,Ad0be etc 3. They are not making any comprimises...getting exactly what they want. The question does arise of is it morally right...? but then again is it morally right for M$ / Ad0be to sell their software for USD 499 in the U.S and 499 pounds in the U.K? Or for a CD to sell for $14.99 in the US and the same CD to sell for 14.99 quid in the UK? Cheers! R -- - The faulty interface lies between the chair and the keyboard. - Creativity is great, but plagiarism is faster! - Smile, everyone loves a moron. :-) - Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On 24/07/07, Ryan A [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, clip The same would happen if I did everything myself. Within days of self-publishing a eBook, it would be on a pirate site. At least with a publisher, legal copies do get sold, and I do get a return on the time invested, even though it's not as much as I would like. /clip Instead of clip tags, I recommend that you configure your mail client to prepend a greater than sign to quotes. It's rather customary, if not standard. Also depends on how popular your site is... coz for example if your site is really popular... say 30k uniques a day, then making an ebook would be great as even though it would get pirated (by the way, check out the digital copies of harry potter if you're into that...(i'm not) how many days has it been since the release?) They were online _before_ you could buy the book. Dotan Cohen http://lyricslist.com/ http://what-is-what.com/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
Hey, Instead of clip tags, I recommend that you configure your mail client to prepend a greater than sign to quotes. It's rather customary, if not standard. Sorry about that, its driving me crazy too. I have to manually do it if I want it (like above). It used to work before... then suddenly it just does not... anybody have any idea which setting I should tinker with in yahoo, please give me a shout. by the way, check out the digital copies of harry potter if you're into that...(i'm not) how many days has it been since the release? They were online _before_ you could buy the book. Ouch, thats gotto hurt. Didnt know that..thanks for the fyi, like I said before, HP is not my sort of thing. Cheers! R -- - The faulty interface lies between the chair and the keyboard. - Creativity is great, but plagiarism is faster! - Smile, everyone loves a moron. :-) - Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos more.
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
At 12:00 PM +0100 7/23/07, David Powers wrote: The Harry Potter books have sold an estimated 325 million copies. Even if the author gets only 10 cents a book, that adds up to $32.5 million. I'm sure she gets a lot more than 10 cents a book, but it's the number of books sold that makes the real difference, not the amount per book. Harry Potter also generates a lot of money through Hollywood movie rights. It's hard to imagine the same with a book about PHP. ;-) Well.. I haven't purchased any Harry Potter books, nor do I plan to do so. But I have purchased scores of php books. The real secrete here is to find more people like me. Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re[2]: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
At 4:21 PM +0100 7/23/07, Richard Davey wrote: Hi Crayon, Monday, July 23, 2007, 4:09:57 PM, you wrote: On Monday 23 July 2007 22:26, Larry Garfield wrote: So when does Rasmus Lerdorf and the Deathly Hallows open in theaters? They've got to make Rasmus Lerdorf and the Order of the PHP first. Or even Rasmus Lerdorf and the Order of Function Arguments :) How about Rasmus Lerdorf, Lord of the Code I think we could go on and on with this. Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On Monday 23 July 2007, tedd wrote: At 4:21 PM +0100 7/23/07, Richard Davey wrote: Hi Crayon, Monday, July 23, 2007, 4:09:57 PM, you wrote: On Monday 23 July 2007 22:26, Larry Garfield wrote: So when does Rasmus Lerdorf and the Deathly Hallows open in theaters? They've got to make Rasmus Lerdorf and the Order of the PHP first. Or even Rasmus Lerdorf and the Order of Function Arguments :) How about Rasmus Lerdorf, Lord of the Code I think we could go on and on with this. Rasmus Lerdorf and the Half-Assed Coder? :-) (This is almost as much fun now as the brain teasers thread.) -- Larry Garfield AIM: LOLG42 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 6817012 If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it. -- Thomas Jefferson -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
AmirBehzad Eslami wrote: I'm living in a country where people do not afford to buy real books. Most people earn $250~$400 per month. $50 for a book is too damn expensive. In addition, since US has restricted business with us, no body ships books to us. And we don't have Credit Card, since Master Card, Visa, Paypal do not offer services to us. How can we read books in such a country? With great difficulty. $50 is too expensive for most books, even in a rich country, but the actual price is usually much lower because of heavy discounts. But that's of little help in your situation. I know that many publishers license cheap editions of books in India, and I personally would like to see the cost of eBooks reduced. If you have no access to either, I suppose the pirates offer you a valuable service. However, don't be under any illusion that the pirates are good-hearted philanthropists taking from the rich and giving to the poor. The best known pirate site sells advertising - a small banner reportedly costs $5,000 a month, and a larger one $10,000 a month. http://rixstep.com/1/20060715,00.shtml David Powers -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
Chris Shiflett wrote: David Powers wrote: I suspect that your estimate of the advances paid by Apress/friends of Ed is inflated. Based on the fact that this is almost identical to every other publisher (O'Reilly, Sams, etc.), and based on the fact that Richard said he has a lot of experience in this industry, I suspect his estimate was spot on. Read my first sentence again. The royalties paid by Apress/foED are industry standard, but the advances are very small. Since I have never written for another publisher, I don't know what a typical advance is likely to be. However, the technical reviewer on one of my books is a successful author himself, published by both friends of ED and O'Reilly. He told me that his advance from O'Reilly was much bigger. Sales never reached the level to trigger further royalties, but he didn't mind, because he was better off than with the foED system of low advances and regular royalty payments. You're right, though, it's difficult to get any return on your time investment. :-) PHP Solutions seems to be doing quite well, but I certainly couldn't exist solely on the income from books. I think a major problem is that publishers tend to flood the market in the hope that one or two will be bestsellers, and they find lots of willing authors hoping to strike it rich. According to Amazon, 28 books on PHP have been published or are planned for this year. Even if each one is superbly written (highly unlikely), the potential market isn't large enough for more than four or five to make a reasonable return for their authors. Still, we all dream of hitting that sweet spot when a book goes through successive editions, selling a cumulative million copies (like Elizabeth Castro's HTML CSS). That's why books keep on coming. The situation in the music industry is similar. David Powers -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
clip However, don't be under any illusion that the pirates are good-hearted philanthropists taking from the rich and giving to the poor. The best known pirate site sells advertising - a small banner reportedly costs $5,000 a month, and a larger one $10,000 a month. /clip Actually, most pirates ARE taking from the rich and giving to the poor (or the ones who make the excuses for not buying or unable to buy as in this situatation)... its the site owners who _help_ in the piracy that make money. Let me give you an example, Adam buys your book/cd/ or a video, rips it into digital format and uploads it onto...say... thepiratebay (since thats where you found your book's links) Adam does not make a cent by doing so, and he is actually the _most_ important link in the chain, coz if he does not share... the site offering the .torrent links cant offer the book, hence no visitors, hence no advertising.. The torrent sites, in the excuse of bandwidth and maintainence charges either ask for donations or take up advertising... and in the case of the pirate bay, if you take a step back from the whole moral issues, it does make sense as they have hundreds of live torrents at any given time (and i am not taking about small size ebooks movies, DVDs, games... we are talking gigs per file..not mb anymore) even though the actual files are not going directly through their servers with over 3-4mil visitors _per day_ and tracking those hundreds of torrents and forums... thats gotto take substantial computing power and costs (*not that i am taking up for them*) In a sick sort of way, they are acting like your publisher except they are not giving the OP (Adam) a cent for providing the material. How many sites do you know of that have 3-4 mil visitors per day and does not ask for a huge pot of $$ for advertising? Another example: In India, China, Dubai and a whole host of other countries cities, people download movies (posted by guys like Adam above) and then make illegal copies on CDs and DVDs etc and sell them cheap pretty much on the roads... here again the people who originally posted the stuff dont get a cent...the ones who make the CDs are the ones who make the money. Just wanted to clear up the misconception that the main people who start copying (RIAA/MPAA slang pirates) are making money. So the real rogues... or pirates... are the siteowners, but when the site itself is named thepiratebay its not exactly like they dont already know it. Cheers! R -- - The faulty interface lies between the chair and the keyboard. - Creativity is great, but plagiarism is faster! - Smile, everyone loves a moron. :-) - Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
Ryan A wrote: Just wanted to clear up the misconception that the main people who start copying (RIAA/MPAA slang pirates) are making money. So the real rogues... or pirates... are the siteowners, but when the site itself is named thepiratebay its not exactly like they dont already know it. Piracy, unauthorized copying, call it what you will, involves a chain. Perhaps if the poor saps who make the unauthorized copies realized just how they're being exploited, things might change. I doubt it, but there's no law against me dreaming. However, I think this horse has been well and truly flogged to death. Time to bring this thread to an end. David Powers -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On Sunday 22 July 2007 18:13, David Powers wrote: That's why books keep on coming. The situation in the music industry is similar. Perhaps you authors should make greater use of things like www.lulu.com where you can dictate the terms and cut out the middle-men. But if you're relying on the advance rather than royalties then it may not be such a good idea :) -- Crayon -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On Sunday 22 July 2007 23:05, Ryan A wrote: Let me give you an example, Adam buys your book/cd/ or a video, rips it into digital format and uploads it onto...say... thepiratebay (since thats where you found your book's links) Adam does not make a cent by doing so, Not exactly, Adam's payback is that he hopes others do the same, so where he uploaded one item, he is able to download hundreds and thousands of items that others have uploaded. Kind of like how Free software works - most contributors make relatively small contributions and receive no financial remuneration, their payback is a whole diverse spectrum of FOSS. -- Crayon -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
Hey, clip David Piracy, unauthorized copying, call it what you will, involves a chain. Perhaps if the poor saps who make the unauthorized copies realized just how they're being exploited, things might change. /clip David Sorry, but disagree with you here, the poor saps know the site owners are making money but just dont give a crap... the actual reason they choose to upload and share can probably start another thread thats longer than this one... but IMHO they know how it works and just want to share. They know they cant make a cent off it coz if the site owners started to pay them... theres a money trail that can be picked up/traced and they get into trouble... This way they upload if they want to... and downloads are always there.. clip Crayon Not exactly, Adam's payback is that he hopes others do the same, so where he uploaded one item, he is able to download hundreds and thousands of items that others have uploaded. /clip Crayon Disagree again, if Adam uploads or not, there is a whole bunch of stuff out there that he cant hope to download in a lifetime. Even if you are member of a torrent site, you dont have to upload to download files once you finish your download you can continue to share (seed) the file to others (if you need to mantain your up/down ratio). Not everyone who downloads uploads new files.. Like I said above, the actual motivation for Adam to upload a new file can feed a whole new looongg thread...so I wont even go there. Cheers! R -- - The faulty interface lies between the chair and the keyboard. - Creativity is great, but plagiarism is faster! - Smile, everyone loves a moron. :-) - Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On Saturday 21 July 2007 04:15, Tijnema wrote: Old paper can be recycled, lost energy from computers can't ;) Recycling old paper use energy as well. -- Crayon -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
Crayon Shin Chan wrote: On Saturday 21 July 2007 04:15, Tijnema wrote: Old paper can be recycled, lost energy from computers can't ;) Recycling old paper use energy as well. more then likely, recycling a stack of newspapers would cost more then running my computer for a month. -- Jim Lucas Some men are born to greatness, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them. Twelfth Night, Act II, Scene V by William Shakespeare -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On Saturday 21 July 2007 16:20, Jim Lucas wrote: more then likely, recycling a stack of newspapers would cost more then running my computer for a month. Also reminds me of how some people (especially Americans) who drive miles and miles in their big gas-guzzling SUVs so they could drop off their recyclables at a recycling centre. -- Crayon -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On 21/07/07, Crayon Shin Chan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Saturday 21 July 2007 04:15, Tijnema wrote: Old paper can be recycled, lost energy from computers can't ;) Recycling old paper use energy as well. Oh, the entropy! I believe that the topic was well covered in Asimov's The Last Question. Let there be light! Dotan Cohen http://lyricslist.com/ http://what-is-what.com/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
Richard Lynch wrote: I've got a pretty good idea what your advance was, and what your royalties are. I suspect that your estimate of the advances paid by Apress/friends of Ed is inflated. Royalties are no secret: Apress publishes its standard contract on the web for prospective authors to see. The basic rate is 10% of the net income received by the publisher. Since heavy discounting is prevalent in the publishing industry, this means the author ends up with less than 5% of the book's cover price. So on a book with a cover price of $40, the author gets less than $2. You need to sell a very large number of books to make a reasonable return on the time invested. I'm sticking to my statement that, surprisingly, you've probably made more than some rock stars with bad contract who had only one hit song. I have no doubt that a lot of musicians end up with a very poor deal. So do many authors. The point is that the pirate site in question seems to take particular pleasure in defying the big movie and recording companies. Those companies are profitable enough to sustain the loss of royalties, and big-name artists do get a large enough advance to enjoy a high-octane lifestyle. However, piracy hits the individual author or musician disproportionately. I'm under no illusion that the 2,000+ downloads of my book would have turned into legitimate sales if illegal copies weren't available. But writing about PHP is a highly competitive niche market. Any loss of sales is unwelcome. David Powers -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
David Powers wrote: I suspect that your estimate of the advances paid by Apress/friends of Ed is inflated. Royalties are no secret: Apress publishes its standard contract on the web for prospective authors to see. The basic rate is 10% of the net income received by the publisher. Since heavy discounting is prevalent in the publishing industry, this means the author ends up with less than 5% of the book's cover price. So on a book with a cover price of $40, the author gets less than $2. Based on the fact that this is almost identical to every other publisher (O'Reilly, Sams, etc.), and based on the fact that Richard said he has a lot of experience in this industry, I suspect his estimate was spot on. You're right, though, it's difficult to get any return on your time investment. :-) Chris -- Chris Shiflett http://shiflett.org/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
I'm living in a country where people do not afford to buy real books. Most people earn $250~$400 per month. $50 for a book is too damn expensive. In addition, since US has restricted business with us, no body ships books to us. And we don't have Credit Card, since Master Card, Visa, Paypal do not offer services to us. How can we read books in such a country? I would like to know your opinions. Thank you. On 7/22/07, Chris Shiflett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David Powers wrote: I suspect that your estimate of the advances paid by Apress/friends of Ed is inflated. Royalties are no secret: Apress publishes its standard contract on the web for prospective authors to see. The basic rate is 10% of the net income received by the publisher. Since heavy discounting is prevalent in the publishing industry, this means the author ends up with less than 5% of the book's cover price. So on a book with a cover price of $40, the author gets less than $2. Based on the fact that this is almost identical to every other publisher (O'Reilly, Sams, etc.), and based on the fact that Richard said he has a lot of experience in this industry, I suspect his estimate was spot on. You're right, though, it's difficult to get any return on your time investment. :-) Chris -- Chris Shiflett http://shiflett.org/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On 22/07/07, AmirBehzad Eslami [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm living in a country where people do not afford to buy real books. Most people earn $250~$400 per month. $50 for a book is too damn expensive. In addition, since US has restricted business with us, no body ships books to us. And we don't have Credit Card, since Master Card, Visa, Paypal do not offer services to us. How can we read books in such a country? I would like to know your opinions. Thank you. Pirate them? As the books are unavailable for sale in your country, it would be tough for the publisher to make an argument about a lost sale. Dotan Cohen http://lyricslist.com/ http://what-is-what.com/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
Hey, Sorry your work was stolen but dont hold your breath waiting for that site to close down. I have no idea who your publishers are but I _reay_ doubt they have more clout than M$, the MPAA, RIAA, SONY, Pixar etc coz they went after thepiratebay and looked like fools: http://thepiratebay.org/legal I *DONT* wish to sound mean but the fact is, your work is going to continue to be stolen and other than complain, theres little you can do about it...so try to ignore it and dont let something like this stop you from writing again as i am sure there are many people out there that would rather get their copy via legal means, enough to support you anyway. HTH. Cheers! R David Powers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Crayon Shin Chan wrote: What makes you think any of the authors are subscribed to this list? I am subscribed to this list, and I'm disgusted that somebody posted the URL to the pirate site. I see that more than 2,000 copies of my PHP Solutions: Dynamic Web Design Made Easy have been downloaded. Although eBooks are cheaper than the printed version, the royalties to an author are much higher (no printing, storage, or delivery costs). I'm not starving, but the loss in revenue is far from trivial, and reduces the incentive to continue to write. I have reported the site to my publisher. Even if it's closed down, my work has already been stolen. David Powers -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- - The faulty interface lies between the chair and the keyboard. - Creativity is great, but plagiarism is faster! - Smile, everyone loves a moron. :-) - Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware protection.
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On 19/07/07, Zoltán Németh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I didn't want to get involved in this thread, though it was interesting to read... However, an idea just came into my mind: what if you, as the author, could offer a download for a price which would be the same as what you get after a sold paper copy? According to what you just said, it would be much cheaper for the download than for a paper copy, which might cause more or less of the downloaders of the pirated file to download it legally and pay this smaller price to you. I admit that it won't stop pirating, but it might be good for those who are willing to pay to you, but either can't afford the paper copy or are not willing to pay to the publishing company - and it might increase your revenues a bit too. greets Zoltán Németh An additional benefit is that there are those who _prefer_ the electronic version to the dead trees. At least, I do. Dotan Cohen http://lyricslist.com/ http://what-is-what.com/
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On 7/20/07, Dotan Cohen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 19/07/07, Zoltán Németh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I didn't want to get involved in this thread, though it was interesting to read... However, an idea just came into my mind: what if you, as the author, could offer a download for a price which would be the same as what you get after a sold paper copy? According to what you just said, it would be much cheaper for the download than for a paper copy, which might cause more or less of the downloaders of the pirated file to download it legally and pay this smaller price to you. I admit that it won't stop pirating, but it might be good for those who are willing to pay to you, but either can't afford the paper copy or are not willing to pay to the publishing company - and it might increase your revenues a bit too. greets Zoltán Németh An additional benefit is that there are those who _prefer_ the electronic version to the dead trees. At least, I do. Dotan Cohen Old paper can be recycled, lost energy from computers can't ;) Tijnema -- Vote for PHP Color Coding in Gmail! - http://gpcc.tijnema.info -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On 20/07/07, Tijnema [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: An additional benefit is that there are those who _prefer_ the electronic version to the dead trees. At least, I do. Dotan Cohen Old paper can be recycled, lost energy from computers can't ;) Tijnema My reference to dead trees was not meant to imply an environmental reasoning behind my preference. But, if you insist, then the 'lost energy' is actually heating my workroom in winter. That means that I don't need to run a heater. Dotan Cohen http://lyricslist.com/ http://what-is-what.com/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On 7/21/07, Dotan Cohen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 20/07/07, Tijnema [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: An additional benefit is that there are those who _prefer_ the electronic version to the dead trees. At least, I do. Dotan Cohen Old paper can be recycled, lost energy from computers can't ;) Tijnema My reference to dead trees was not meant to imply an environmental reasoning behind my preference. But, if you insist, then the 'lost energy' is actually heating my workroom in winter. That means that I don't need to run a heater. Dotan Cohen And it runs the airco in the summer ;) Tijnema -- Vote for PHP Color Coding in Gmail! - http://gpcc.tijnema.info -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On Wed, July 18, 2007 6:13 am, David Powers wrote: Richard Lynch wrote: You probably have made far more from your book than most rock artists, and surprisingly more than some of the rock stars with particularly bad contracts, or who have only had one hit song. I'm glad you have such a high opinion of the earning power of my books. I've tech-edited a couple tech books. I've got a pretty good idea what your advance was, and what your royalties are. I'm sticking to my statement that, surprisingly, you've probably made more than some rock stars with bad contract who had only one hit song. Note that I am distinguishing between what ended up in the artist pocket and what ended up in the label's, just as you distinguish between what's in your pocket and your publisher's. It is important to be accurate in this area, imho, as there is already way too much misinformation, oft-repeated by the media. It's also important not to perpetuate the myth that the authors of computer books are in the same league as JK Rowling or Stephen King. A book that sells more than 5,000 copies is the exception, not the rule. http://www.publishersweekly.com/article/CA6353274.html?pubdate=7%2F17%2F2006display=current I am under no illusion that your royalties match Ms. Rowling or Mr. King. :-) It's more like this: [ordered list] Rock stars with multiple hits/albums who have re-negotiated a second contract. Rowling/King You. Rock stars with one hit. Musicians you never heard of. Actually, Rowling/King may well be ahead of many of the rock stars who got a second contract, come to think of it... -- Some people have a gift link here. Know what I want? I want you to buy a CD from some indie artist. http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch Yeah, I get a buck. So? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On Thu, July 19, 2007 1:38 pm, tedd wrote: At 8:52 AM -0500 7/19/07, Larry Garfield wrote: On Thursday 19 July 2007, Daniel Brown wrote: the middle-men being cut out, and that's how you get exclusivity contracts, DRM, and similar anti-artist and anti-consumer bad things. I interpreted the bad things was meant to apply exclusively to the DRM, rather than the exclusivity contracts... If you want to engage in an exclusive contract, it's your choice/right to do so. YMMV -- Some people have a gift link here. Know what I want? I want you to buy a CD from some indie artist. http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch Yeah, I get a buck. So? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On 16/07/07, Crayon Shin Chan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 16 July 2007 19:42, Dotan Cohen wrote: I guess that I'm naive. I've gotten a few what's the address requests, but none from authors... What makes you think any of the authors are subscribed to this list? Even if some are, what makes you think they monitor the list 24/7? They might be on vacation, they might be in a coma. Just don't be so impatient. I'm not impatient. I was commenting on the fact that lots of people though Hey, now there's something that I could use when I specifically said that I will not spread the URL around to those who want to abuse it. I am disappointed in humans. Really. I love my dog and I'm going to tell her that. Dotan Cohen http://lyricslist.com/ http://what-is-what.com/ -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On 16/07/07, Mark Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi. On Monday 16 July 2007 12:42, Dotan Cohen wrote: So, suckers, I'm with you now, and I'll start pirating again. This is a real shame (not to mention a foolish thing to post to a publicly archived mailing list). As a user of open source technology you are benefiting directly from the PHP developers choice of license, and relying on people respecting it. It is hypocritical to expect everyone to respect the PHP license and give you nice tech for free, then turn round and ignore a different license just because the authors haven't chosen to give away their work. I was being sarcastic. I was rather surprised to see how supportive of the pirates those who answered were. Of course I will not steal media. I have no reason to: Most of the software I use (Fedora/Ubuntu, Firefox, Open Office) are free, and I can afford those that are not (mostly PocketPC apps such as Pocket Informant, ListPro, etc.). I even have a valid license for the MS Windows XP that I run in a VMWare Virtual Machine. Anyone know where I can pick up a copy of Ubuntu pirated? You may have intended this as a joke, but recently there have been (unconfirmed from what I can tell) reports of Ubuntu torrent downloads with pre-installed trojans. Always get your stuff from the official sites. Really? I haven;t heard of that. Thanks. Please reconsider your decision to selectively ignore copyright licenses. No, I refuse to reevaluate my decision! I will not start pirating, even if I see that many people on this list support pirates. I will continue to use the open source tools that I love, not because of the price, rather, because of the quality. Dotan Cohen http://lyricslist.com/ http://what-is-what.com/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On 17/07/07, David Powers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Crayon Shin Chan wrote: What makes you think any of the authors are subscribed to this list? I am subscribed to this list, and I'm disgusted that somebody posted the URL to the pirate site. I see that more than 2,000 copies of my PHP Solutions: Dynamic Web Design Made Easy have been downloaded. Although eBooks are cheaper than the printed version, the royalties to an author are much higher (no printing, storage, or delivery costs). I'm not starving, but the loss in revenue is far from trivial, and reduces the incentive to continue to write. I have reported the site to my publisher. Even if it's closed down, my work has already been stolen. David, I am the OP, and I have not posted the URL to the pirate site. Nor did I see it posted anywhere. Check the email, maybe someone else sent it to you directly. Dotan Cohen http://lyricslist.com/ http://what-is-what.com/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
Dotan Cohen wrote: David, I am the OP, and I have not posted the URL to the pirate site. Nor did I see it posted anywhere. Check the email, maybe someone else sent it to you directly. Dotan, I'm fully aware that you didn't post the URL, and I apologize if my post gave the impression that you were the culprit. The URL was posted by another person approximately six hours after your original post. It might have been removed from the web interface, but it's definitely still there in my newsreader. It has been quite fascinating to read this thread, even though it has nothing to do with PHP. As an author, I have frequently thought about the contradiction between the fact that PHP is free and open source, but I claim copyright and payment for the books I write about it. But it's no secret that many people involved in developing open source software make a living selling their knowledge in one way or another, either as consultants or developers. Although I don't have the skills to contribute to the core development of PHP, I hope that my books help others use PHP in a productive and secure manner. With regard to the argument about free flow of information, all the information in my books is freely available on the internet. However, the value to most readers is that I have pulled together that information, tested it, and presented it in a form that, hopefully, makes it easier for beginners and intermediate developers to understand. Since it takes six months to a year to produce a book, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect readers to pay for it. Unfortunately, computer books are expensive. Few people realize that only a tiny proportion of the price goes to the author. That's why unauthorized distribution cuts so deeply into an author's income. David Powers -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
2007. 07. 19, csütörtök keltezéssel 13.28-kor David Powers ezt írta: Dotan Cohen wrote: David, I am the OP, and I have not posted the URL to the pirate site. Nor did I see it posted anywhere. Check the email, maybe someone else sent it to you directly. Dotan, I'm fully aware that you didn't post the URL, and I apologize if my post gave the impression that you were the culprit. The URL was posted by another person approximately six hours after your original post. It might have been removed from the web interface, but it's definitely still there in my newsreader. It has been quite fascinating to read this thread, even though it has nothing to do with PHP. As an author, I have frequently thought about the contradiction between the fact that PHP is free and open source, but I claim copyright and payment for the books I write about it. But it's no secret that many people involved in developing open source software make a living selling their knowledge in one way or another, either as consultants or developers. Although I don't have the skills to contribute to the core development of PHP, I hope that my books help others use PHP in a productive and secure manner. With regard to the argument about free flow of information, all the information in my books is freely available on the internet. However, the value to most readers is that I have pulled together that information, tested it, and presented it in a form that, hopefully, makes it easier for beginners and intermediate developers to understand. Since it takes six months to a year to produce a book, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect readers to pay for it. Unfortunately, computer books are expensive. Few people realize that only a tiny proportion of the price goes to the author. That's why unauthorized distribution cuts so deeply into an author's income. I didn't want to get involved in this thread, though it was interesting to read... However, an idea just came into my mind: what if you, as the author, could offer a download for a price which would be the same as what you get after a sold paper copy? According to what you just said, it would be much cheaper for the download than for a paper copy, which might cause more or less of the downloaders of the pirated file to download it legally and pay this smaller price to you. I admit that it won't stop pirating, but it might be good for those who are willing to pay to you, but either can't afford the paper copy or are not willing to pay to the publishing company - and it might increase your revenues a bit too. greets Zoltán Németh David Powers -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On 7/19/07, Zoltán Németh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2007. 07. 19, csütörtök keltezéssel 13.28-kor David Powers ezt írta: Dotan Cohen wrote: David, I am the OP, and I have not posted the URL to the pirate site. Nor did I see it posted anywhere. Check the email, maybe someone else sent it to you directly. Dotan, I'm fully aware that you didn't post the URL, and I apologize if my post gave the impression that you were the culprit. The URL was posted by another person approximately six hours after your original post. It might have been removed from the web interface, but it's definitely still there in my newsreader. It has been quite fascinating to read this thread, even though it has nothing to do with PHP. As an author, I have frequently thought about the contradiction between the fact that PHP is free and open source, but I claim copyright and payment for the books I write about it. But it's no secret that many people involved in developing open source software make a living selling their knowledge in one way or another, either as consultants or developers. Although I don't have the skills to contribute to the core development of PHP, I hope that my books help others use PHP in a productive and secure manner. With regard to the argument about free flow of information, all the information in my books is freely available on the internet. However, the value to most readers is that I have pulled together that information, tested it, and presented it in a form that, hopefully, makes it easier for beginners and intermediate developers to understand. Since it takes six months to a year to produce a book, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect readers to pay for it. Unfortunately, computer books are expensive. Few people realize that only a tiny proportion of the price goes to the author. That's why unauthorized distribution cuts so deeply into an author's income. I didn't want to get involved in this thread, though it was interesting to read... However, an idea just came into my mind: what if you, as the author, could offer a download for a price which would be the same as what you get after a sold paper copy? According to what you just said, it would be much cheaper for the download than for a paper copy, which might cause more or less of the downloaders of the pirated file to download it legally and pay this smaller price to you. I admit that it won't stop pirating, but it might be good for those who are willing to pay to you, but either can't afford the paper copy or are not willing to pay to the publishing company - and it might increase your revenues a bit too. greets Zoltán Németh David Powers -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php The problem with that, though, is that a lot of publishers require exclusivity, so an author is bound (no pun intended) by contract not to publish elsewhere - including on their own website. -- Daniel P. Brown [office] (570-) 587-7080 Ext. 272 [mobile] (570-) 766-8107 -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On Thursday 19 July 2007, Daniel Brown wrote: I didn't want to get involved in this thread, though it was interesting to read... However, an idea just came into my mind: what if you, as the author, could offer a download for a price which would be the same as what you get after a sold paper copy? According to what you just said, it would be much cheaper for the download than for a paper copy, which might cause more or less of the downloaders of the pirated file to download it legally and pay this smaller price to you. I admit that it won't stop pirating, but it might be good for those who are willing to pay to you, but either can't afford the paper copy or are not willing to pay to the publishing company - and it might increase your revenues a bit too. greets Zoltán Németh David Powers The problem with that, though, is that a lot of publishers require exclusivity, so an author is bound (no pun intended) by contract not to publish elsewhere - including on their own website. -- Daniel P. Brown That is, however, a very common argument in favor of online distribution. It cuts out the middle-men, reduces costs, saves trees, and increases the revenue per unit for the original author/artist. Of course, the copyright cartels (which includes most book publishers) object to that because they're the middle-men being cut out, and that's how you get exclusivity contracts, DRM, and similar anti-artist and anti-consumer bad things. -- Larry Garfield AIM: LOLG42 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 6817012 If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it. -- Thomas Jefferson -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
The problem with that, though, is that a lot of publishers require exclusivity, so an author is bound (no pun intended) by contract not to publish elsewhere - including on their own website. The idea of even offering an electronic version should be to drive sales for the hard copy. Maybe offer a Condensed Version electronically, that has enough content that readers can get enough of a feel for the product to drive a buying decision. Throughout, make reference to the full version having more complete content, complete with an order now link. This method worked well for Readers Digest! JM -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
Jim Moseby wrote: The problem with that, though, is that a lot of publishers require exclusivity, so an author is bound (no pun intended) by contract not to publish elsewhere - including on their own website. The idea of even offering an electronic version should be to drive sales for the hard copy. Maybe offer a Condensed Version electronically, that has enough content that readers can get enough of a feel for the product to drive a buying decision. Throughout, make reference to the full version having more complete content, complete with an order now link. This method worked well for Readers Digest! Or watermark the .pdf with something that uniquely identifies each copy - this could be done with a script at the time of the order. Maybe the name of the original buyer, or the order number, etc. Doesn't prevent the piracy, but does give traceability should you wish to pursue the pirate. Regards, Austin. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On 7/19/07, Austin Denyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jim Moseby wrote: The problem with that, though, is that a lot of publishers require exclusivity, so an author is bound (no pun intended) by contract not to publish elsewhere - including on their own website. The idea of even offering an electronic version should be to drive sales for the hard copy. Maybe offer a Condensed Version electronically, that has enough content that readers can get enough of a feel for the product to drive a buying decision. Throughout, make reference to the full version having more complete content, complete with an order now link. This method worked well for Readers Digest! Or watermark the .pdf with something that uniquely identifies each copy - this could be done with a script at the time of the order. Maybe the name of the original buyer, or the order number, etc. Doesn't prevent the piracy, but does give traceability should you wish to pursue the pirate. Regards, Austin. One word: Useless! The watermark can be easily removed, and the guy who puts in on the net will simply remove it, and can't be traced :) Tijnema -- Vote for PHP Color Coding in Gmail! - http://gpcc.tijnema.info -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
At 8:52 AM -0500 7/19/07, Larry Garfield wrote: On Thursday 19 July 2007, Daniel Brown wrote: The problem with that, though, is that a lot of publishers require exclusivity, so an author is bound (no pun intended) by contract not to publish elsewhere - including on their own website. -- Daniel P. Brown That is, however, a very common argument in favor of online distribution. It cuts out the middle-men, reduces costs, saves trees, and increases the revenue per unit for the original author/artist. Of course, the copyright cartels (which includes most book publishers) object to that because they're the middle-men being cut out, and that's how you get exclusivity contracts, DRM, and similar anti-artist and anti-consumer bad things. -- Larry Garfield AIM: LOLG42 Bad things? A publisher, and most other middleman, provide some sort of service -- and it's reasonable to expect them to protect their investment. Nobody (except me) works for nothing. If you want to go on your own, no problem then you handle the marketing, distributing, advertising, collections, liability, copyright, security, and all the rest of the responsibilities that doing it yourself entails. However, understand that if you write the best book ever, it might not be realized until after you're dead. So, begins the trade-off's that we all have to make. As a consumer, you want buy the the best book? Are you willing to search the net until you find some out of the way author who says his book is the best and then trust that it is? OR, are you more comfortable with buying from your local book store where known publisher place their books? Everything is a trade-off. Risk vs value. It's one thing to say If we cut out the middleman, then we can all buy cheaper books! -- but it's another to find books worth buying without a publisher. I never met a man/profession that didn't provide some improvement to the overall quality of life -- except of course politicians and insurance companies. Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
The idea of even offering an electronic version should be to drive sales for the hard copy. Maybe offer a Condensed Version electronically, that has enough content that readers can get enough of a feel for the product to drive a buying decision. Throughout, make reference to the full version having more complete content, complete with an order now link. This method worked well for Readers Digest! Or watermark the .pdf with something that uniquely identifies each copy - this could be done with a script at the time of the order. Maybe the name of the original buyer, or the order number, etc. Doesn't prevent the piracy, but does give traceability should you wish to pursue the pirate. Didn't/doesn't the PHP Architect magazine do this? Or am I mis-remembering? thnx, Chris -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
Richard Lynch wrote: You probably have made far more from your book than most rock artists, and surprisingly more than some of the rock stars with particularly bad contracts, or who have only had one hit song. I'm glad you have such a high opinion of the earning power of my books. It is important to be accurate in this area, imho, as there is already way too much misinformation, oft-repeated by the media. It's also important not to perpetuate the myth that the authors of computer books are in the same league as JK Rowling or Stephen King. A book that sells more than 5,000 copies is the exception, not the rule. http://www.publishersweekly.com/article/CA6353274.html?pubdate=7%2F17%2F2006display=current David Powers -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
At 6:02 PM -0400 7/17/07, Chris Shiflett wrote: Crayon Shin Chan wrote: What makes you think any of the authors are subscribed to this list? I'm subscribed. :-) Chris Chris: Yeah, but you're a successful author and understand why people shouldn't Pirate books. As such, your opinion doesn't count in this argument -- it's only between us less successful people. There are those who think all digital media should be free -- but, they usually lack the talent to produce anything worthwhile themselves. If they had their way, they would eventually be bitching about nothing worthwhile to steal. Thank God that most people are honest, or so I believe. Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
At 11:12 PM +0800 7/16/07, Crayon Shin Chan wrote: They might be on vacation, they might be in a coma. Or both. tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On 7/17/07, tedd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 11:12 PM +0800 7/16/07, Crayon Shin Chan wrote: They might be on vacation, they might be in a coma. Or both. tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php I usually try to slip into a nice, comfortable coma while I'm traveling. It affords me the feeling of being dead, but without the maggots and stuff. -- Daniel P. Brown [office] (570-) 587-7080 Ext. 272 [mobile] (570-) 766-8107 -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On 7/16/07, Dotan Cohen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just found some jerk on StumbleUpon with titles like: PHP Essentials (c)2007 (Neil Smyth) PHP Cookbook (David Sklar/Adam Trachtenberg) PHP 5 Power Programming (c)2005 (Andi Gutmans/Stig Bakken/Derick Rethans ) A Programmer's Introduction to PHP 4.0 (c)2000 (W. Jason Gilmore) And lots of others. They are downloadable PDFs. If the authors want the address of the site, email me. The pirates can go directly to Hell. Dotan Cohen http://lyricslist.com/ http://what-is-what.com/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php Oh no! http://andigutmans.blogspot.com/2006/08/php-5-power-programming-passes-1.html -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
Crayon Shin Chan wrote: What makes you think any of the authors are subscribed to this list? I'm subscribed. :-) Chris -- Chris Shiflett http://shiflett.org/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
I believe the entire post may have been tongue in cheek and/or sarcasm... But I wasn't sure either... [shrug] You can be sure that a heck of a lot more important/disturbing things remain on the 'net than this, either way. :-) On Mon, July 16, 2007 7:20 am, Mark Kelly wrote: Hi. On Monday 16 July 2007 12:42, Dotan Cohen wrote: So, suckers, I'm with you now, and I'll start pirating again. This is a real shame (not to mention a foolish thing to post to a publicly archived mailing list). As a user of open source technology you are benefiting directly from the PHP developers choice of license, and relying on people respecting it. It is hypocritical to expect everyone to respect the PHP license and give you nice tech for free, then turn round and ignore a different license just because the authors haven't chosen to give away their work. Anyone know where I can pick up a copy of Ubuntu pirated? You may have intended this as a joke, but recently there have been (unconfirmed from what I can tell) reports of Ubuntu torrent downloads with pre-installed trojans. Always get your stuff from the official sites. http://www.funtechtalk.com/trojan-horse-loaded-version-of-ubuntu-704-spreading-over-torrent-sites/ (ugly URL may wrap) Please reconsider your decision to selectively ignore copyright licenses. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- Some people have a gift link here. Know what I want? I want you to buy a CD from some indie artist. http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch Yeah, I get a buck. So? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On Mon, July 16, 2007 6:06 pm, David Powers wrote: Stut wrote: Movie companies and rock artists make more money before breakfast than the author of a computer-related book is likely to make in a whole year (at least from book royalties). U. No. The numbers you see in the newspaper/media are A) what goes into the record label, not the artist pocket, and B) for incredibly famous rock stars not all rock artists. You probably have made far more from your book than most rock artists, and surprisingly more than some of the rock stars with particularly bad contracts, or who have only had one hit song. It is important to be accurate in this area, imho, as there is already way too much misinformation, oft-repeated by the media. -- Some people have a gift link here. Know what I want? I want you to buy a CD from some indie artist. http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch Yeah, I get a buck. So? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
Hi. On Monday 16 July 2007 12:42, Dotan Cohen wrote: So, suckers, I'm with you now, and I'll start pirating again. This is a real shame (not to mention a foolish thing to post to a publicly archived mailing list). As a user of open source technology you are benefiting directly from the PHP developers choice of license, and relying on people respecting it. It is hypocritical to expect everyone to respect the PHP license and give you nice tech for free, then turn round and ignore a different license just because the authors haven't chosen to give away their work. Anyone know where I can pick up a copy of Ubuntu pirated? You may have intended this as a joke, but recently there have been (unconfirmed from what I can tell) reports of Ubuntu torrent downloads with pre-installed trojans. Always get your stuff from the official sites. http://www.funtechtalk.com/trojan-horse-loaded-version-of-ubuntu-704-spreading-over-torrent-sites/ (ugly URL may wrap) Please reconsider your decision to selectively ignore copyright licenses. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
http://www.thepiratebay.org On Monday 16 July 2007 14:42:25 Dotan Cohen wrote: On 16/07/07, Austin C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dont be so harsh. I used to torrent PHP books, and everyone I turrented, I ended up buying from a book store so I could take it with me. So, that kind of stuff actually helped me. But, ive stopped torrenting now. I guess that I'm naive. I've gotten a few what's the address requests, but none from authors... So I'll just delete the address and not pass it on. Like said earlier in the thread, it can be easily googled. As everybody (including M$, excluding RIAA) seems to support the pirates with they won't buy it anyways I guess that I really am a sucker for being the one who pays for the books. I'm paying for everybody, no? So, suckers, I'm with you now, and I'll start pirating again. Anyone know where I can pick up a copy of Ubuntu pirated? I still refuse to use Windows, even for free... Dotan Cohen -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On 16/07/07, Austin C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dont be so harsh. I used to torrent PHP books, and everyone I turrented, I ended up buying from a book store so I could take it with me. So, that kind of stuff actually helped me. But, ive stopped torrenting now. I guess that I'm naive. I've gotten a few what's the address requests, but none from authors... So I'll just delete the address and not pass it on. Like said earlier in the thread, it can be easily googled. As everybody (including M$, excluding RIAA) seems to support the pirates with they won't buy it anyways I guess that I really am a sucker for being the one who pays for the books. I'm paying for everybody, no? So, suckers, I'm with you now, and I'll start pirating again. Anyone know where I can pick up a copy of Ubuntu pirated? I still refuse to use Windows, even for free... Dotan Cohen http://lyricslist.com/ http://what-is-what.com/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
Dotan Cohen wrote: On 16/07/07, Austin C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dont be so harsh. I used to torrent PHP books, and everyone I turrented, I ended up buying from a book store so I could take it with me. So, that kind of stuff actually helped me. But, ive stopped torrenting now. I guess that I'm naive. I've gotten a few what's the address requests, but none from authors... So I'll just delete the address and not pass it on. Like said earlier in the thread, it can be easily googled. As everybody (including M$, excluding RIAA) seems to support the pirates with they won't buy it anyways I guess that I really am a sucker for being the one who pays for the books. I'm paying for everybody, no? So, suckers, I'm with you now, and I'll start pirating again. Anyone know where I can pick up a copy of Ubuntu pirated? I still refuse to use Windows, even for free... Pirated Ubuntu? I hope that was supposed to be funny. -Stut -- http://stut.net/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
On Monday 16 July 2007 19:42, Dotan Cohen wrote: I guess that I'm naive. I've gotten a few what's the address requests, but none from authors... What makes you think any of the authors are subscribed to this list? Even if some are, what makes you think they monitor the list 24/7? They might be on vacation, they might be in a coma. Just don't be so impatient. -- Crayon -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pirate PHP books online?
Crayon Shin Chan wrote: What makes you think any of the authors are subscribed to this list? I am subscribed to this list, and I'm disgusted that somebody posted the URL to the pirate site. I see that more than 2,000 copies of my PHP Solutions: Dynamic Web Design Made Easy have been downloaded. Although eBooks are cheaper than the printed version, the royalties to an author are much higher (no printing, storage, or delivery costs). I'm not starving, but the loss in revenue is far from trivial, and reduces the incentive to continue to write. I have reported the site to my publisher. Even if it's closed down, my work has already been stolen. David Powers -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
