Re: [PHP] FAQ: replace first instance (couldn't find in archive)
Dotan, now _I'm_ sending _you_ multiple copies (last one didn't go to the list by mistake!) Dotan Cohen wrote: I've seen this discussed before, but no solution seems to have ever been suggested. I'd like to replace the first instance of a substring in a string. So if we were to replace the first 'the' with 'a' in the sentance Then the big bear ate the little cat in the north of the woods. we would have: Then a big bear ate the little cat in the north of the woods. php -r ' echo preg_replace(#the#,a,Then the big bear ate the little cat in the north of the woods.,1), \n; ' I'm on PHP Version 4.3.11, but I can't seem to do anything useful with the preg_replace() limit parameter, which is supposed to be on php=4.0.1 Does anybody have an example of working code that does this? I've never asked for code before, but this time I think that I already DO know what functions I need, I just can't seem to make it connect Side note, in google I couldn't find anything for php that would do what I want, but I found several perl archives that have a solution. If need be, I can paste that perl code. Maybe someone will be able to translate it into php. Thanks! Dotan http://lyricslist.com/lyrics/artist_albums/274/jamiroquai.php Jamiroquai Song Lyrics -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] FAQ: replace first instance (couldn't find in archive)
On 7/28/05, Jochem Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dotan, now _I'm_ sending _you_ multiple copies (last one didn't go to the list by mistake!) php -r ' echo preg_replace(#the#,a,Then the big bear ate the little cat in the north of the woods.,1), \n; ' Wow! It was those hash signs. They didn't teach me THAT at the Primate Programmers course... Now on to google to go learn about those hash signs... Dotan http://lyricslist.com/lyrics/artist_albums/119/clapton_eric.php Clapton, Eric Song Lyrics -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] FAQ: replace first instance (couldn't find in archive)
Dotan Cohen wrote: On 7/28/05, Jochem Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dotan, now _I'm_ sending _you_ multiple copies (last one didn't go to the list by mistake!) php -r ' echo preg_replace(#the#,a,Then the big bear ate the little cat in the north of the woods.,1), \n; ' Wow! It was those hash signs. They didn't teach me THAT at the Primate Programmers course... Now on to google to go learn about those hash signs... the hash signs are regexp delimiters - you don't ness. need to use hash signs, normally I either use # or / . some of the examples here http://nl2.php.net/preg_replace use @ in short read this (like 10 times :-): http://nl2.php.net/manual/en/reference.pcre.pattern.syntax.php eventually it starts to sink in ;-) Dotan http://lyricslist.com/lyrics/artist_albums/119/clapton_eric.php Clapton, Eric Song Lyrics -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] FAQ: replace first instance (couldn't find in archive)
On 7/28/05, Jochem Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the hash signs are regexp delimiters - you don't ness. need to use hash signs, normally I either use # or / . some of the examples here http://nl2.php.net/preg_replace use @ in short read this (like 10 times :-): http://nl2.php.net/manual/en/reference.pcre.pattern.syntax.php eventually it starts to sink in ;-) Oh, I've read it, but only about 8 times! For whatever reason, I wasn't putting in slashes or hash signs, I guess I just wasn't thinking... I should probably go over it once again- I last read it about a year ago and I'm sure that even the stuff that hasn't changed isn't as well sunk-in as it could be. Thanks. Dotan http://lyricslist.com/lyrics/artist_albums/273/jackson_michael.php Jackson, Michael Song Lyrics -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] FAQ: replace first instance (couldn't find in archive)
Dotan Cohen wrote: On 7/28/05, Jochem Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dotan, now _I'm_ sending _you_ multiple copies (last one didn't go to the list by mistake!) php -r ' echo preg_replace(#the#,a,Then the big bear ate the little cat in the north of the woods.,1), \n; ' Wow! It was those hash signs. They didn't teach me THAT at the Primate Programmers course... Now on to google to go learn about those hash signs... Dotan http://lyricslist.com/lyrics/artist_albums/119/clapton_eric.php Clapton, Eric Song Lyrics There is nothing sacred about what you use for delimiters, just don't use preg's special characters and any characters contained in your pattern, obviously. Personally, I use % because I rarely use it an a pattern and it's easy to spot at the end. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] FAQ in PHP
Is this part of the 'mailing lists :: guess the missing paragraph' competition? Suresh Babu.A [Support] wrote: Hi Team, How to track a posting in a faq using mysql. Thanks in advance. Suresh A. -- Raditha Dissanayake -- http://www.radinks.com/sftp/?sg Lean and mean secure FTP applet in pure java. Complete with Graphical User Inteface Just 150 kb in size. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] FAQ a good idea?
on 22/11/02 8:14 PM, Noodle Snacks ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: I think this group should have a regularly posted faq that outlines common problems such as register globals. This has been discussed many times too :) Last plan was to have it auto-posted to the subscriber when they sign up, plus possibly a monthly or weekly reminder... the weekly reminder is really easy (it just requires someone to write the FAQ and set up a cron or something), but the one when ppl sign-up really needs the PHP-team in on it... really, it's their list, so it should be in their hands. Justin French http://Indent.com.au Web Developent Graphic Design -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] FAQ a good idea?
there is a bunch of info everywhere on the web. One should have better means to find these, but at the end, that is what others do here - answer questions :) I don't think this will ever happen -- Maxim Maletsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] Noodle Snacks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... : I think this group should have a regularly posted faq that outlines common problems such as register globals. I would be glad to help write it etc if anyone else would like an input. I wrote this in response to the millions of register global questions and the message with the subject Be Nice to Newbies. Reply on list if you think it would be a good idea and we can use this thread to discuss it... -- JJ Harrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] FAQ a good idea?
I think this is a good idea. We have have for ColdFusion because we can point new people to it and it answers a lot of questions without generating extra traffic on the list. I for one am all for an FAQ. Clint -Original Message- From: Maxim Maletsky [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 6:53 AM To: Noodle Snacks Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PHP] FAQ a good idea? there is a bunch of info everywhere on the web. One should have better means to find these, but at the end, that is what others do here - answer questions :) I don't think this will ever happen -- Maxim Maletsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] Noodle Snacks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... : I think this group should have a regularly posted faq that outlines common problems such as register globals. I would be glad to help write it etc if anyone else would like an input. I wrote this in response to the millions of register global questions and the message with the subject Be Nice to Newbies. Reply on list if you think it would be a good idea and we can use this thread to discuss it... -- JJ Harrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] FAQ a good idea?
An about register globals post bi-weekly would eliminate tons of questions I reckon. But maxim is also right. People should find their own info and a faq could dominate the group... -- JJ Harrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Clint Tredway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... I think this is a good idea. We have have for ColdFusion because we can point new people to it and it answers a lot of questions without generating extra traffic on the list. I for one am all for an FAQ. Clint -Original Message- From: Maxim Maletsky [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 6:53 AM To: Noodle Snacks Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PHP] FAQ a good idea? there is a bunch of info everywhere on the web. One should have better means to find these, but at the end, that is what others do here - answer questions :) I don't think this will ever happen -- Maxim Maletsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] Noodle Snacks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... : I think this group should have a regularly posted faq that outlines common problems such as register globals. I would be glad to help write it etc if anyone else would like an input. I wrote this in response to the millions of register global questions and the message with the subject Be Nice to Newbies. Reply on list if you think it would be a good idea and we can use this thread to discuss it... -- JJ Harrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] FAQ a good idea?
An about register globals post bi-weekly would eliminate tons of questions I reckon. But maxim is also right. People should find their own info and a faq could dominate the group... The fact you must call session_start before sending anything to the browser is another FAQ that would help. An interest of FAQ, is that it helps beginners to find some answers they need quickly, so they will be more interested in continuing PHP. It helps making the language even more attractive, because it is a part of the language support. An FAQ can also remind the first places where information can be found, where one should search before asking. So, before someone asks is there a function to do this, the FAQ could tell how to find said function, pointing out the most commonly used sections in the documentation. Strings, regular expressions, arrays, date/time are the ones that come out of my mind when wondering what do I use most often. Vincent -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] FAQ a good idea?
Ahhh -- now i get ya!! Many thanks! Justin French http://Indent.com.au Web Development Graphic Design it's right now :P -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Re: PHP FAQ (again)
Justin French [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... I saw this mentioned a few times recently, but I'd really like to put out the call again. This group needs an FAQ *specific to this list* which helps new members / posters integrate seamlessly... Perhaps someone could quickly summarize and refer to http://www.php.net/manual/en/faq.php http://www.alt-php-faq.org/ http://www.kbcenter.com/category.php?parent_id=3 http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/index.phtml/fid/51/ http://pear.php.net/faq.php http://www.php-faq.com/ http://www.phpworld.com/faq/faq_000.html http://www.tek-tips.com/gfaq.cfm/lev2/4/lev3/31/spid/434 http://www.vbweb.co.uk/php/ http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_php.html http://www.speakeasy.net/main.php?page=phpfaq + the list archives + posting etiquette and point to php.net, zend.com, mysql.com, phpbuilder.com, etc... -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Re: PHP FAQ (again)
Hugh, No need - if you wouldn't mind, just post this list each day, along with the header PHP FAQs -Check here first! Miles At 10:17 AM 4/3/2002 -0500, Hugh Bothwell wrote: Justin French [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... I saw this mentioned a few times recently, but I'd really like to put out the call again. This group needs an FAQ *specific to this list* which helps new members / posters integrate seamlessly... Perhaps someone could quickly summarize and refer to http://www.php.net/manual/en/faq.php http://www.alt-php-faq.org/ http://www.kbcenter.com/category.php?parent_id=3 http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/index.phtml/fid/51/ http://pear.php.net/faq.php http://www.php-faq.com/ http://www.phpworld.com/faq/faq_000.html http://www.tek-tips.com/gfaq.cfm/lev2/4/lev3/31/spid/434 http://www.vbweb.co.uk/php/ http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_php.html http://www.speakeasy.net/main.php?page=phpfaq + the list archives + posting etiquette and point to php.net, zend.com, mysql.com, phpbuilder.com, etc... -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] FAQ (again) ... we have a plan!
At 03.04.2002 12:08, you wrote: I'm getting a bit interested in this; here's how I suggest we proceed. snip + introduction to php.net charter - the purpose of this newsgroup posting guidelines and etiquette be specific be terse descriptive subject include exact error messages include code no more than N lines, else give URL be polite be thankful - no-one HAS to help you look which OS you are using and choose the right list don't cross-post don't multi-post don't spam how to subscribe / unsubscribe to the newsgroup how to subscribe / unsubscribe to mailing lists reference to archives reference to php.net manual + quick overview of the language what is PHP, short history most recent version where to download refer to installation instructions terminology/jargon? refer to php.net manual refer to tutorials http://www.zend.com/zend/art/intro.php http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/programming/php/ For Germans HTML - http://selfhtml.teamone.de/ PHP - http://www.selfphp.info/index.php I think this pages are well made, I´m not affilated with one of the authors ;-) what else I should learn HTML, JavaScript, CSS, SQL - links + installation, recompilation, configuration + name this function search code snippets to common problems quick searchable function list with keywords, short descriptions, maybe very short examples, and links to appropriate php.net manual page + advanced language questions what is a good development environment page redirection browser refresh / timeout I keep getting headers already sent how to print a number with leading zeros how to interact with JavaScript the difference between include() and require() playing with arrays playing with tables + forms, sessions, user authentication, cookies how to authenticate users playing with forms how to pass values from one script to another how to initiate a session how to terminate a session counting current users I think this should be a single point + dealing with sessions and/or cookies ... as you wrote above + php+database refer to mysql.com how to query a database how to get a limited number of rows + email how to validate an email address http://www.zend.com/zend/spotlight/ev12apr.php sending email refer to RFCs plain text HTML multipart MIME processing email ie w/ procmail But this list shows the absolute structure ?! Otherwise, there are too many points to scroll. The method, Miguel suggested, getting on the list with activly acknowling the FAQ, will be a good idea. I´ll be onboard, if there´s any solution in sight, giving my 2 cent (or what was the acronym?) Oliver -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] FAQ
That's a FAQ (did you try the obvious? http://php.net/faq) On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, James Taylor wrote: Has anyone given any thought to possibly maintaining a FAQ containing the answers to the most commonly asked PHP questions on this list? I notice duplicates roll through every couple of days, and it would probably be a really nice PHP resource. Or, does one already exist? Ha. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] FAQ
You are correct sir. The purpose of the FAQ would be so that, like I said, similar questions that pop up say, once a week, could be answered in the FAQ instead of on the list - That way I won't get 300 messages a day :) On Friday 22 March 2002 11:36 am, you wrote: Despite what Rasmus just said, I think that you are saying a PHP Mailing List faq based on the q's that the mailing list gets, not the general PHP faq. Scott -Original Message- From: James Taylor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 2:30 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PHP] FAQ Has anyone given any thought to possibly maintaining a FAQ containing the answers to the most commonly asked PHP questions on this list? I notice duplicates roll through every couple of days, and it would probably be a really nice PHP resource. Or, does one already exist? Ha. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] FAQ
I've been working on that at http://www.php-faq.com/ Want to help? -Original Message- From: James Taylor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 2:30 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PHP] FAQ Has anyone given any thought to possibly maintaining a FAQ containing the answers to the most commonly asked PHP questions on this list? I notice duplicates roll through every couple of days, and it would probably be a really nice PHP resource. Or, does one already exist? Ha. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] FAQ
Yes, an FAQ would be nice...so would a Manual...Oh wait, there is one, but people just happen to overlook it most of the time :-) I apologize for the sarcasm, but it is Friday! Brian -Original Message- From: James Taylor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 2:50 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: PHP List Subject: Re: [PHP] FAQ You are correct sir. The purpose of the FAQ would be so that, like I said, similar questions that pop up say, once a week, could be answered in the FAQ instead of on the list - That way I won't get 300 messages a day :) On Friday 22 March 2002 11:36 am, you wrote: Despite what Rasmus just said, I think that you are saying a PHP Mailing List faq based on the q's that the mailing list gets, not the general PHP faq. Scott -Original Message- From: James Taylor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 2:30 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PHP] FAQ Has anyone given any thought to possibly maintaining a FAQ containing the answers to the most commonly asked PHP questions on this list? I notice duplicates roll through every couple of days, and it would probably be a really nice PHP resource. Or, does one already exist? Ha. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] FAQ
This one has been around for awhile, though I don't think its official. php.faqts.com Robert Zwink http://www.zwink.net/daid.php -Original Message- From: James Taylor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 2:30 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PHP] FAQ Has anyone given any thought to possibly maintaining a FAQ containing the answers to the most commonly asked PHP questions on this list? I notice duplicates roll through every couple of days, and it would probably be a really nice PHP resource. Or, does one already exist? Ha. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] FAQ
Yep good idea ! Oh and by the books - a couple of opinions wouldn't be bad either ! regards john I've been working on that at http://www.php-faq.com/ Want to help? -Original Message- From: James Taylor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 2:30 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PHP] FAQ Has anyone given any thought to possibly maintaining a FAQ containing the answers to the most commonly asked PHP questions on this list? I notice duplicates roll through every couple of days, and it would probably be a really nice PHP resource. Or, does one already exist? Ha. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] FAQ
I just don't see what the difference is. This is a PHP mailing list which supposedly gets questions about PHP. Why would the PHP FAQ not be the right place for this? -Rasmus On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, James Taylor wrote: You are correct sir. The purpose of the FAQ would be so that, like I said, similar questions that pop up say, once a week, could be answered in the FAQ instead of on the list - That way I won't get 300 messages a day :) On Friday 22 March 2002 11:36 am, you wrote: Despite what Rasmus just said, I think that you are saying a PHP Mailing List faq based on the q's that the mailing list gets, not the general PHP faq. Scott -Original Message- From: James Taylor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 2:30 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PHP] FAQ Has anyone given any thought to possibly maintaining a FAQ containing the answers to the most commonly asked PHP questions on this list? I notice duplicates roll through every couple of days, and it would probably be a really nice PHP resource. Or, does one already exist? Ha. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] FAQ
The PHP FAQ isn't really specific when it comes to most problems. The 'code' section has like 10 questions, the rest of the FAQ is mainly how to download/compile, what do these PHP errors mean, migration, etc. A FAQ that had answers to questions that people ask on this list on a frequent basis would be more helpful. On Friday 22 March 2002 12:05 pm, you wrote: I just don't see what the difference is. This is a PHP mailing list which supposedly gets questions about PHP. Why would the PHP FAQ not be the right place for this? -Rasmus On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, James Taylor wrote: You are correct sir. The purpose of the FAQ would be so that, like I said, similar questions that pop up say, once a week, could be answered in the FAQ instead of on the list - That way I won't get 300 messages a day :) On Friday 22 March 2002 11:36 am, you wrote: Despite what Rasmus just said, I think that you are saying a PHP Mailing List faq based on the q's that the mailing list gets, not the general PHP faq. Scott -Original Message- From: James Taylor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 2:30 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PHP] FAQ Has anyone given any thought to possibly maintaining a FAQ containing the answers to the most commonly asked PHP questions on this list? I notice duplicates roll through every couple of days, and it would probably be a really nice PHP resource. Or, does one already exist? Ha. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] FAQ
So add it those. On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, James Taylor wrote: The PHP FAQ isn't really specific when it comes to most problems. The 'code' section has like 10 questions, the rest of the FAQ is mainly how to download/compile, what do these PHP errors mean, migration, etc. A FAQ that had answers to questions that people ask on this list on a frequent basis would be more helpful. On Friday 22 March 2002 12:05 pm, you wrote: I just don't see what the difference is. This is a PHP mailing list which supposedly gets questions about PHP. Why would the PHP FAQ not be the right place for this? -Rasmus On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, James Taylor wrote: You are correct sir. The purpose of the FAQ would be so that, like I said, similar questions that pop up say, once a week, could be answered in the FAQ instead of on the list - That way I won't get 300 messages a day :) On Friday 22 March 2002 11:36 am, you wrote: Despite what Rasmus just said, I think that you are saying a PHP Mailing List faq based on the q's that the mailing list gets, not the general PHP faq. Scott -Original Message- From: James Taylor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 2:30 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PHP] FAQ Has anyone given any thought to possibly maintaining a FAQ containing the answers to the most commonly asked PHP questions on this list? I notice duplicates roll through every couple of days, and it would probably be a really nice PHP resource. Or, does one already exist? Ha. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] FAQ
Too often novices are expected to know how to find this information by mental telepathy because they either don't know the keywords to search for or don't realize that certain common resources exist. If the list administrators would simply compile a short email containing FAQ and RESOURCE links then have the system send it to php-general once a week, then they could reduce a great deal of these repetitious questions. IMHO, of course. -Kevin -Original Message- From: James Taylor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 1:25 PM To: Rasmus Lerdorf Cc: PHP List Subject: Re: [PHP] FAQ The PHP FAQ isn't really specific when it comes to most problems. The 'code' section has like 10 questions, the rest of the FAQ is mainly how to download/compile, what do these PHP errors mean, migration, etc. A FAQ that had answers to questions that people ask on this list on a frequent basis would be more helpful. On Friday 22 March 2002 12:05 pm, you wrote: I just don't see what the difference is. This is a PHP mailing list which supposedly gets questions about PHP. Why would the PHP FAQ not be the right place for this? -Rasmus On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, James Taylor wrote: You are correct sir. The purpose of the FAQ would be so that, like I said, similar questions that pop up say, once a week, could be answered in the FAQ instead of on the list - That way I won't get 300 messages a day :) On Friday 22 March 2002 11:36 am, you wrote: Despite what Rasmus just said, I think that you are saying a PHP Mailing List faq based on the q's that the mailing list gets, not the general PHP faq. Scott -Original Message- From: James Taylor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 2:30 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PHP] FAQ Has anyone given any thought to possibly maintaining a FAQ containing the answers to the most commonly asked PHP questions on this list? I notice duplicates roll through every couple of days, and it would probably be a really nice PHP resource. Or, does one already exist? Ha. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] FAQ
Hi, New poster, no need to flame unnecessarily... Following up on James' original posting, I took 2000 or so message headers from the archive and extracted (Perl, sorry) keywords for about 50% of the postings. This gave the following metrics on problems: 13 table 65 apache 70 array 17 authentication 19 browser 13 cgi 39 cookie 35 database 9 dates 2 debug 9 editor 7 eval 6 fields 140 file 25 include 33 install 9 ip address 14 javascript 4 jpg 15 ldap 12 login 91 mail 146 mysql 11 oracle 20 pdf 2 PostgreSQL 15 Regex 7 rpm 8 security 93 session 11 socket 50 upload 29 variables 14 while 7 win32 37 xml 10 xsl It seems like the hotspots are: Database / Mysql File handling Apache Arrays XML When James and I talked off list, he recommended: You're probably also going to be dealing with global built in vars, $_SESSION, $_POST, $_GET and older vars quite a bit as well. I'm willing to grovel through old messages and write this up. If anyone has any other common topics that I'm not finding, please email them to me. When its done, and useful, we can see about getting it auto posted (which is a _good_ idea). Thanks Scott J. Scott Johnson Virtual: * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.fuzzygroup.com/ Yahoo IM: fuzzygroup -Original Message- From: Kevin Stone [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 5:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [PHP] FAQ Too often novices are expected to know how to find this information by mental telepathy because they either don't know the keywords to search for or don't realize that certain common resources exist. If the list administrators would simply compile a short email containing FAQ and RESOURCE links then have the system send it to php-general once a week, then they could reduce a great deal of these repetitious questions. IMHO, of course. -Kevin -Original Message- From: James Taylor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 1:25 PM To: Rasmus Lerdorf Cc: PHP List Subject: Re: [PHP] FAQ The PHP FAQ isn't really specific when it comes to most problems. The 'code' section has like 10 questions, the rest of the FAQ is mainly how to download/compile, what do these PHP errors mean, migration, etc. A FAQ that had answers to questions that people ask on this list on a frequent basis would be more helpful. On Friday 22 March 2002 12:05 pm, you wrote: I just don't see what the difference is. This is a PHP mailing list which supposedly gets questions about PHP. Why would the PHP FAQ not be the right place for this? -Rasmus On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, James Taylor wrote: You are correct sir. The purpose of the FAQ would be so that, like I said, similar questions that pop up say, once a week, could be answered in the FAQ instead of on the list - That way I won't get 300 messages a day :) On Friday 22 March 2002 11:36 am, you wrote: Despite what Rasmus just said, I think that you are saying a PHP Mailing List faq based on the q's that the mailing list gets, not the general PHP faq. Scott -Original Message- From: James Taylor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 2:30 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PHP] FAQ Has anyone given any thought to possibly maintaining a FAQ containing the answers to the most commonly asked PHP questions on this list? I notice duplicates roll through every couple of days, and it would probably be a really nice PHP resource. Or, does one already exist? Ha. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] FAQ
I'm willing to help host the project... I'd be on a slack 8 box with a cable connection... only one IP address. It's my home connection so we'd have to share bandwidth... but I think it could be a valuable resource... -Original Message- From: J. Scott Johnson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 2:40 PM To: 'Kevin Stone'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [PHP] FAQ Hi, New poster, no need to flame unnecessarily... Following up on James' original posting, I took 2000 or so message headers from the archive and extracted (Perl, sorry) keywords for about 50% of the postings. This gave the following metrics on problems: 13 table 65 apache 70 array 17 authentication 19 browser 13 cgi 39 cookie 35 database 9 dates 2 debug 9 editor 7 eval 6 fields 140 file 25 include 33 install 9 ip address 14 javascript 4 jpg 15 ldap 12 login 91 mail 146 mysql 11 oracle 20 pdf 2 PostgreSQL 15 Regex 7 rpm 8 security 93 session 11 socket 50 upload 29 variables 14 while 7 win32 37 xml 10 xsl It seems like the hotspots are: Database / Mysql File handling Apache Arrays XML When James and I talked off list, he recommended: You're probably also going to be dealing with global built in vars, $_SESSION, $_POST, $_GET and older vars quite a bit as well. I'm willing to grovel through old messages and write this up. If anyone has any other common topics that I'm not finding, please email them to me. When its done, and useful, we can see about getting it auto posted (which is a _good_ idea). Thanks Scott J. Scott Johnson Virtual: * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.fuzzygroup.com/ Yahoo IM: fuzzygroup -Original Message- From: Kevin Stone [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 5:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [PHP] FAQ Too often novices are expected to know how to find this information by mental telepathy because they either don't know the keywords to search for or don't realize that certain common resources exist. If the list administrators would simply compile a short email containing FAQ and RESOURCE links then have the system send it to php-general once a week, then they could reduce a great deal of these repetitious questions. IMHO, of course. -Kevin -Original Message- From: James Taylor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 1:25 PM To: Rasmus Lerdorf Cc: PHP List Subject: Re: [PHP] FAQ The PHP FAQ isn't really specific when it comes to most problems. The 'code' section has like 10 questions, the rest of the FAQ is mainly how to download/compile, what do these PHP errors mean, migration, etc. A FAQ that had answers to questions that people ask on this list on a frequent basis would be more helpful. On Friday 22 March 2002 12:05 pm, you wrote: I just don't see what the difference is. This is a PHP mailing list which supposedly gets questions about PHP. Why would the PHP FAQ not be the right place for this? -Rasmus On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, James Taylor wrote: You are correct sir. The purpose of the FAQ would be so that, like I said, similar questions that pop up say, once a week, could be answered in the FAQ instead of on the list - That way I won't get 300 messages a day :) On Friday 22 March 2002 11:36 am, you wrote: Despite what Rasmus just said, I think that you are saying a PHP Mailing List faq based on the q's that the mailing list gets, not the general PHP faq. Scott -Original Message- From: James Taylor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 2:30 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PHP] FAQ Has anyone given any thought to possibly maintaining a FAQ containing the answers to the most commonly asked PHP questions on this list? I notice duplicates roll through every couple of days, and it would probably be a really nice PHP resource. Or, does one already exist? Ha. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] FAQ...was - Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
I'd be happy to host one but I imagine there is one already for the list? Jeff -Original Message- From: mike cullerton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 3:08 PM To: php Subject: Re: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk on 7/31/01 12:37 PM, scott [gts] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: there's a fine line between being terse and being nasty. please don't misinterpret this, but i think that we could all benefit from being less sensitive of the style each of us express ourselves in... once again, scott, you seem to have a nice concise way of putting things :) newbies are part of internet communities, as are old curmudgeons. thankfully, so too are the wise, willing to share their knowledge. recently, Brian White mentioned a propsed faq for the headers already sent question. also, Philip Olson mentioned a link at php.faqts. what is up with a faq for this list? is there one? i have been saving good responses to faq type questions with the intent of putting a faq together. now is as good a time as any. i'll post something in a couple days. that way, we can politley say to newcomers. hey, nice to have you around. hope we can help you out some. two places you should go to get started are php.net and link.to.list.faq let me know if there already is one. have a day, mike -- mike cullerton -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP] FAQ - was Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
An actual Question and Answer FAQ is probably not necessary, since there are so many other good information resources out there already, but what seems to be necessary is to provide newbies with a current list of some really good PHP-related sites. (like http://php.net/function -- i use it everyday, but not too many newbies seem to know about it) -Original Message- From: mike cullerton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Subject: Re: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk on 7/31/01 12:37 PM, scott [gts] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: there's a fine line between being terse and being nasty. please don't misinterpret this, but i think that we could all benefit from being less sensitive of the style each of us express ourselves in... once again, scott, you seem to have a nice concise way of putting things :) newbies are part of internet communities, as are old curmudgeons. thankfully, so too are the wise, willing to share their knowledge. recently, Brian White mentioned a propsed faq for the headers already sent question. also, Philip Olson mentioned a link at php.faqts. what is up with a faq for this list? is there one? i have been saving good responses to faq type questions with the intent of putting a faq together. now is as good a time as any. i'll post something in a couple days. that way, we can politley say to newcomers. hey, nice to have you around. hope we can help you out some. two places you should go to get started are php.net and link.to.list.faq let me know if there already is one. have a day, mike -- mike cullerton -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP] FAQ - was Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
How I view this subject as a Newbie I don't care about attitudes, language, remarks, or anything of this nature. What I do care about is having a place where I can ask stupid questions (Most of the time) intelligent question (whenever possible) and get an answer. Someday when I can understand the manuals and have alot more experience with PHP and MySQL I will be glad to pitch in and help. Until then I need your help. Yes I read the manuals, FAQs and anything else I can find. But sometimes, I just flat don't know what the heck I'm reading. So from a Newbie to you Seasoned Vets THANKS!!!-- , /'^ ^'\ -((o)-(o))- --oOOO--(_)--OOOo--- J R Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ 411053 .oooO ( ) Oooo. ---\ (---( )-- \_) ) / (_/ -Original Message- From: scott [gts] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 2:14 PM To: php Subject: RE: [PHP] FAQ - was Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk An actual Question and Answer FAQ is probably not necessary, since there are so many other good information resources out there already, but what seems to be necessary is to provide newbies with a current list of some really good PHP-related sites. (like http://php.net/function -- i use it everyday, but not too many newbies seem to know about it) -Original Message- From: mike cullerton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Subject: Re: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk on 7/31/01 12:37 PM, scott [gts] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: there's a fine line between being terse and being nasty. please don't misinterpret this, but i think that we could all benefit from being less sensitive of the style each of us express ourselves in... once again, scott, you seem to have a nice concise way of putting things :) newbies are part of internet communities, as are old curmudgeons. thankfully, so too are the wise, willing to share their knowledge. recently, Brian White mentioned a propsed faq for the headers already sent question. also, Philip Olson mentioned a link at php.faqts. what is up with a faq for this list? is there one? i have been saving good responses to faq type questions with the intent of putting a faq together. now is as good a time as any. i'll post something in a couple days. that way, we can politley say to newcomers. hey, nice to have you around. hope we can help you out some. two places you should go to get started are php.net and link.to.list.faq let me know if there already is one. have a day, mike -- mike cullerton -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP] FAQ
A PHP faq resource : http://php.faqts.com/ Regarding an official faq, searching the archives works pretty well. Here's a great place to start (one of many places php-general is archived) : http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=php-general Or actually, google archives everything forever : http://www.google.com/ Regarding faqts.com, the search feature is having a few issues right now but I promise it's usually better ;-) And as someone already stated, php.net has a relativly new FAQ that's growing : http://www.php.net/manual/en/faq.php I wrote this awhile ago, maybe it'll help someone, don't hesitate to add/modify it : What are some ways to get PHP support ? --- http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/8720 Regards, Philip -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP] FAQ
There is a well maintained site whose purpose is to answer/archive frequently asked questions: http://php.faqts.com Robert Zwink -Original Message- From: Rick St Jean [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 12:05 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PHP] FAQ It is there a list of most frequently asked questions? It seems that people ask the same questions, again and again, they do not READ THE MANUAL. Yes I have asked 2 stupid questions, but I really did search and I am reading my manuals, the PHP and the book that I bought. Also I would like to know if there would be a demand for an experienced mailing list? I am just frustrated by the same 3 questions that pop up about once a day. The rest of the posts are great. Rick ## # Rick St Jean, # [EMAIL PROTECTED] # President of Design Shark, # http://www.designshark.com/ # Quick Contact: http://www.designshark.com/messaging.ihtml # Tel: 905-684-2952 ## -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] FAQ
On Thursday 15 March 2001 17:22, you wrote: people wouldnt use an FAQ, when you see three people ask the exact same question on one single day, you know they dont read the other post, or care. if they wont read the posts on the same day they wont read an FAQ, they keep posting. Yep. But if there's a FAQ the answers can be greatly simplified :) -- Christian Reiniger LGDC Webmaster (http://sunsite.dk/lgdc/) Google results 1-10 of about 142,000,000 for e. Search took 0.18 seconds. - http://www.google.com/search?q=e -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] FAQ - Newbie perspective
On Friday 16 March 2001 08:09, you wrote:
I recently asked a pretty simple question on this list ("Finding the
depth"). I could have found out the answer to it in about 10-15 minutes
on my own, thanks to my experience with programming. Still, I posted
the question to this list. Why?
What did I gain:
* I saved time.
* I got to see _PHP_code_ for solving my problem. Any solution from
me would have been more C++ than PHP. I got to become more familiar
with thinking the PHP way.
The question is: how many of you think that that posting was "ok" and
how many had to curb the temptation to flame me :-)?
I thought it was "ok" and didn't want to flame you - until now when I saw
that you "could have found out the answer to it in about 10-15 minutes"
on your own (well, not realy). In such a situation the correct thing is
IMO to actually spend these 10-15 minutes and then post your code and ask
the list how this could be done better.
--
Christian Reiniger
LGDC Webmaster (http://sunsite.dk/lgdc/)
Google results 1-10 of about 142,000,000 for e. Search took 0.18 seconds.
- http://www.google.com/search?q=e
--
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RE: [PHP] FAQ
I agree with everything you have said. I just don't think there is a good way to get people from asking these types of questions, without someone sitting there reading every message and filtering them according to topic. We are stuck with a high-volume list where lots of newbies come to ask us questions. If PHP wasn't so damn good and so popular we wouldn't be having this conversation. K E I T H V A N C E Software Engineer n-Link Corporation On Thu, 15 Mar 2001, Jason Lotito wrote: How many times are people going to complain about no-brainer questions being posted to the list. The fact of the matter is people are going to post things on the list without reading the manual or the FAQ. It goes with the territory. It annoys me too, but there is no good solution for the problem. There is the fact that a lot of people are new and don't really know where to go to find answers. Even if they go to the web site, they still may not know that they need to be looking for information on naming variables with variables or that fopen opens a file or whatever. K E I T H V A N C E I think the argument has less to do with people asking questions about PHP and how it works, and more about people asking basica programming questions without knowing it. Fundamental programming concepts, like the scope of a variable, passing by reference or by value, or even looping are things newbie's simply do not understand. Why? Because they don't know they need to learn the concepts and theories of programming before learning to program. It sounds odd, but that is the way it is. People asking questions about how a loop works are not usually asking how a PHP loop works. The same for arrays. They are really saying: "This is the first real programming language I am out to learn, and I don't understand the concept behind a For/Next Loop." This isn't a bad thing, heck, we were all newbies at one point, and in a sense, we are all newbies at something. I think the argument is that their are many people who don't want to learn how and why a For/Next Loop works, but instead simply want someone to fix the problem for them. That isn't programming. Programming (and yes, I know, PHP is technically a scripting language, but lets not jump that fence as well) is about trial and error, logic, and creativity, but most importantly, problem solving. Most of the newbies get into PHP expecting a tutorial on every topic. If they can't find a tutorial on how to print out 5 numbers, they expect someone to show them how to do it. They don't try and solve the problem themselves, and that is a problem. I don't mind assisting where I can, however, I don't like rewriting a script for someone when they don't even take the time to try and learn the fundamentals. Most newbies I have met fall into two categories. The majority start out wanting to learn PHP because someone said it was easy to learn, which it is, from a programmers point of view. However, when in the second week of learning their first programming language they can't program that PHP Database Content Management System with Instant Yahoo News Retrival complete with User Database, Forums, and Real Time Foo, they start getting upset and say that PHP sucks. Those same people may also complain because they can't find a tutorial on how to create a Forum Database, and all they can find are tutorials on the basics of Database Design. I think this is the real problem. Try to run before they have learned to crawl and walk. Jason Lotito www.NewbieNetwork.net Where those who can, teach; and those who can, learn. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] FAQ
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Rick St Jean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem is that people are lazy or just to stupid to look for stuff. snip I guess people are either too lazy or just too stupid to learn how to quote in emails. ;-) I guess I am frustrated because all the lists I am on are filled with lazy people who whine and want someone else to do all their work for them. big snip I get frustrated by people sending huge quotes, and leaving 4 of those auto generated list tags behind. If they didn't, the traffic on the list, size wise, would be halved. Nik -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] FAQ
askedagain.com/net/org are available. on 3/15/01 9:17 AM, RBL at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I once thought a great product for mail lists (would require an admin interface, PHP?) would be a way to put into the list mail signature a random FAQ link. Fill that particular FAQ with commonly asked questions and have the FAQ sent out each month to all subscribers. A decent threaded mail reader would make this reasonably easy (notice I did not say *simple*) to administer. -- Dave Goodrich Director of Interface Development Reality Based Learning Company 9521 NE Willows Road, Suite 100 Redmond, WA 98052 Toll Free 1-877-869-6603 ext. 237 Fax (425) 558-5655 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.rblc.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP] FAQ
Or what would be more interesting would be some sort of buffer between you and the list, ie: you send an email to the list the listserv picks the 3 best matches to your email from a database of faqs AND/OR the listserv picks the 3 best matches to your email from a database of the list's threads and sends these to you in an email. Replying to the email sends your originial query to the list. mal -Original Message- From: RBL [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 15 March 2001 17:17 To: Rick St Jean; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PHP] FAQ on 3/15/01 9:04 AM, Rick St Jean at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also I would like to know if there would be a demand for an experienced mailing list? I am just frustrated by the same 3 questions that pop up about once a day. The rest of the posts are great. Rick I once thought a great product for mail lists (would require an admin interface, PHP?) would be a way to put into the list mail signature a random FAQ link. Fill that particular FAQ with commonly asked questions and have the FAQ sent out each month to all subscribers. A decent threaded mail reader would make this reasonably easy (notice I did not say *simple*) to administer. Example -- Need a PHP editor? (http://php.net/common_questions.html?Q=phpeditors) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Example -- Trouble compiling GD? (http://php.net/common_questions.html?Q=gdrequirements) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Dave Goodrich Director of Interface Development Reality Based Learning Company 9521 NE Willows Road, Suite 100 Redmond, WA 98052 Toll Free 1-877-869-6603 ext. 237 Fax (425) 558-5655 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.rblc.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP] FAQ
I'd just like to offset my other email by saying that a faq is often no substitute for the knowledge and experience of this list's members. In a strange way, the 'dumb' question this list gets proves the a faq can not be expected to know the right way to answer a query. A list member out there just might know _exactly_ what you need to solve your problem. mal -Original Message- From: RBL [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 15 March 2001 17:17 To: Rick St Jean; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PHP] FAQ on 3/15/01 9:04 AM, Rick St Jean at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also I would like to know if there would be a demand for an experienced mailing list? I am just frustrated by the same 3 questions that pop up about once a day. The rest of the posts are great. Rick I once thought a great product for mail lists (would require an admin interface, PHP?) would be a way to put into the list mail signature a random FAQ link. Fill that particular FAQ with commonly asked questions and have the FAQ sent out each month to all subscribers. A decent threaded mail reader would make this reasonably easy (notice I did not say *simple*) to administer. Example -- Need a PHP editor? (http://php.net/common_questions.html?Q=phpeditors) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Example -- Trouble compiling GD? (http://php.net/common_questions.html?Q=gdrequirements) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Dave Goodrich Director of Interface Development Reality Based Learning Company 9521 NE Willows Road, Suite 100 Redmond, WA 98052 Toll Free 1-877-869-6603 ext. 237 Fax (425) 558-5655 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.rblc.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] FAQ
Cool idea, I am going to add that to the spec for the mailing list program we are working on. it is relatively simple if you put it there when you are planning the app. At 09:17 AM 3/15/01 -0800, RBL wrote: on 3/15/01 9:04 AM, Rick St Jean at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also I would like to know if there would be a demand for an experienced mailing list? I am just frustrated by the same 3 questions that pop up about once a day. The rest of the posts are great. Rick I once thought a great product for mail lists (would require an admin interface, PHP?) would be a way to put into the list mail signature a random FAQ link. Fill that particular FAQ with commonly asked questions and have the FAQ sent out each month to all subscribers. A decent threaded mail reader would make this reasonably easy (notice I did not say *simple*) to administer. Example -- Need a PHP editor? (http://php.net/common_questions.html?Q=phpeditors) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Example -- Trouble compiling GD? (http://php.net/common_questions.html?Q=gdrequirements) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Dave Goodrich Director of Interface Development Reality Based Learning Company 9521 NE Willows Road, Suite 100 Redmond, WA 98052 Toll Free 1-877-869-6603 ext. 237 Fax (425) 558-5655 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.rblc.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## # Rick St Jean, # [EMAIL PROTECTED] # President of Design Shark, # http://www.designshark.com/ # Quick Contact: http://www.designshark.com/messaging.ihtml # Tel: 905-684-2952 ## -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] FAQ Ignor if you are tired of this.
This was sent off-list. I respect that. And it voices some opinions. I am not flaming newbie questions. I am a newbie myself. I do have a problem with the same questions coming up 3 times in a row. With developers asking people to do simple logic. And people not looking for answers before they ask. All I am asking is if you do not have an understanding of programming.. do some tutorials. I am talking about questions like... how can I make the page print "1 2 3 4 5" style of questions that come up because php is the first thing that they looked at. This means the person hasn't even looked for a basic tutorial. I love the idea that the list is helpful, I love to answer all the questions that I can, but some people want you to hold their hand. the "help-Your-friends-forum" is "hold-your-hand-forum" or "spoon-feed-me-forum" occassionaly. the manual is http://www.php.net/manual/en/ do a simple search. These guys did a pretty good job here. I spent $80 on a book so I can step though the different functions and keep most of my questions off the list. If you spent time looking say so, I can respect not being able to find something even if it is obvious.. I have done it myself. I asked about contatination. I was looking for a strcat function. Maybe I should invest some time into an site called phpstarter.com and buy the domain name. I get quite a bit of help from people from this list on and off mailing. I am not flaming anyone in particular, I am just tired of people not bothering to spend any energy because it is easier to get someone else to give you the answer. That is what bugs me. I'm a newbee too, have search for hours in the online-manual to find certain answers. Also looked through the FAQ's, searched on PHPbuilder , Devshead and other sites, but didn't find a clue on my problem. It's frustrating spending hours one something a Pro would do in 5 secs!!! If the mailinglists wasn't ment to be a "help-Your-friends-forum" what are they then? The problem with the manual is, that it is VERY hard to understand correct for a newbee. For a little experienced developer it's no problem. But the rest of us?? - Original Message - From: "Rick St Jean" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Newsgroups: php.general Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 7:28 PM Subject: Re: [PHP] FAQ The problem is that people are lazy or just to stupid to look for stuff. Sometimes yes, we just miss something small or it is under another section. I have done it as recently as tuesday with implode. But this is getting nuts. I guess I am frustrated because all the lists I am on are filled with lazy people who whine and want someone else to do all their work for them. PHP is not low level if you need something simple use iHTML. It is the simplest scripting language out there. I propose that the first few sentances of the signup message should be... READ THE MANUAL BEFORE POSTING!! READ THE MANUAL BEFORE POSTING!! READ THE MANUAL BEFORE POSTING!! if you are confused about this... READ THE MANUAL BEFORE POSTING!! SEARCH THE ARCHIVES / FAQ BEFORE POSTING! SEARCH THE ARCHIVES / FAQ BEFORE POSTING! SEARCH THE ARCHIVES / FAQ BEFORE POSTING! if you doing understand then SEARCH THE ARCHIVES / FAQ BEFORE POSTING! Rick At 10:22 AM 3/15/01 -0600, Chris Lee wrote: people wouldnt use an FAQ, when you see three people ask the exact same question on one single day, you know they dont read the other post, or care. if they wont read the posts on the same day they wont read an FAQ, they keep posting. -- Chris Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] ""Mal McKay"" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... I'd just like to offset my other email by saying that a faq is often no substitute for the knowledge and experience of this list's members. In a strange way, the 'dumb' question this list gets proves the a faq can not be expected to know the right way to answer a query. A list member out there just might know _exactly_ what you need to solve your problem. mal -Original Message- From: RBL [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 15 March 2001 17:17 To: Rick St Jean; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PHP] FAQ on 3/15/01 9:04 AM, Rick St Jean at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also I would like to know if there would be a demand for an experienced mailing list? I am just frustrated by the same 3 questions that pop up about once a day. The rest of the posts are great. Rick I once thought a great product for mail lists (would require an admin interface, PHP?) would be a way to put into the list mail signature a random FAQ link. Fill that particular FAQ with commonly asked questions and have the FAQ sent out each month to all subscribers. A dec
Re: [PHP] FAQ Ignor if you are tired of this.
The "flaming" answer was just "getting air". I've spend the last 2 hours reading ALL 499 postings in these forums. And learned a LOT more than spending 20 hours in the manual. Also some basic technics where quite usefull. Your'e right about simple HTML, but if You want to use input from Your site, the best wau to treat variables is PHP. Sometimes Pro's learn from newbees !!! Lars "Rick St Jean" [EMAIL PROTECTED] skrev i en meddelelse [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... This was sent off-list. I respect that. And it voices some opinions. I am not flaming newbie questions. I am a newbie myself. I do have a problem with the same questions coming up 3 times in a row. With developers asking people to do simple logic. And people not looking for answers before they ask. All I am asking is if you do not have an understanding of programming.. do some tutorials. I am talking about questions like... how can I make the page print "1 2 3 4 5" style of questions that come up because php is the first thing that they looked at. This means the person hasn't even looked for a basic tutorial. I love the idea that the list is helpful, I love to answer all the questions that I can, but some people want you to hold their hand. the "help-Your-friends-forum" is "hold-your-hand-forum" or "spoon-feed-me-forum" occassionaly. the manual is http://www.php.net/manual/en/ do a simple search. These guys did a pretty good job here. I spent $80 on a book so I can step though the different functions and keep most of my questions off the list. If you spent time looking say so, I can respect not being able to find something even if it is obvious.. I have done it myself. I asked about contatination. I was looking for a strcat function. Maybe I should invest some time into an site called phpstarter.com and buy the domain name. I get quite a bit of help from people from this list on and off mailing. I am not flaming anyone in particular, I am just tired of people not bothering to spend any energy because it is easier to get someone else to give you the answer. That is what bugs me. I'm a newbee too, have search for hours in the online-manual to find certain answers. Also looked through the FAQ's, searched on PHPbuilder , Devshead and other sites, but didn't find a clue on my problem. It's frustrating spending hours one something a Pro would do in 5 secs!!! If the mailinglists wasn't ment to be a "help-Your-friends-forum" what are they then? The problem with the manual is, that it is VERY hard to understand correct for a newbee. For a little experienced developer it's no problem. But the rest of us?? - Original Message - From: "Rick St Jean" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Newsgroups: php.general Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 7:28 PM Subject: Re: [PHP] FAQ The problem is that people are lazy or just to stupid to look for stuff. Sometimes yes, we just miss something small or it is under another section. I have done it as recently as tuesday with implode. But this is getting nuts. I guess I am frustrated because all the lists I am on are filled with lazy people who whine and want someone else to do all their work for them. PHP is not low level if you need something simple use iHTML. It is the simplest scripting language out there. I propose that the first few sentances of the signup message should be... READ THE MANUAL BEFORE POSTING!! READ THE MANUAL BEFORE POSTING!! READ THE MANUAL BEFORE POSTING!! if you are confused about this... READ THE MANUAL BEFORE POSTING!! SEARCH THE ARCHIVES / FAQ BEFORE POSTING! SEARCH THE ARCHIVES / FAQ BEFORE POSTING! SEARCH THE ARCHIVES / FAQ BEFORE POSTING! if you doing understand then SEARCH THE ARCHIVES / FAQ BEFORE POSTING! Rick At 10:22 AM 3/15/01 -0600, Chris Lee wrote: people wouldnt use an FAQ, when you see three people ask the exact same question on one single day, you know they dont read the other post, or care. if they wont read the posts on the same day they wont read an FAQ, they keep posting. -- Chris Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] ""Mal McKay"" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... I'd just like to offset my other email by saying that a faq is often no substitute for the knowledge and experience of this list's members. In a strange way, the 'dumb' question this list gets proves the a faq can not be expected to know the right way to answer a query. A list member out there just might know _exactly_ what you need to solve your problem. mal -Original Message----- From: RBL [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 15 March 2001 17:17 To: Rick St Jean; [EM
Re: [PHP] FAQ
On Fri, 16 Mar 2001 03:34, Rick St Jean wrote: It is there a list of most frequently asked questions? It seems that people ask the same questions, again and again, they do not READ THE MANUAL. Yes I have asked 2 stupid questions, but I really did search and I am reading my manuals, the PHP and the book that I bought. Seems to me that a significant number of questions arise from people who don't have any idea of the concepts behind 'programming', if I may overload that term. 'How do I make a loop work' 'How can I print the numbers 1 to 5'. Also I would like to know if there would be a demand for an experienced mailing list? I am just frustrated by the same 3 questions that pop up about once a day. The rest of the posts are great. As has been noted before, there is little purpose in splitting the list like that. If the 'newbies' all go to the 'inexperienced' list, from whence do they gain wisdom? And then the 'newbies' learnn about the 'experienced' list and go there and we're back to square one. :-) Check the archives for _extended_ discussion on that topic. -- David Robley| WEBMASTER Mail List Admin RESEARCH CENTRE FOR INJURY STUDIES | http://www.nisu.flinders.edu.au/ AusEinet| http://auseinet.flinders.edu.au/ Flinders University, ADELAIDE, SOUTH AUSTRALIA -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] FAQ
How many times are people going to complain about no-brainer questions being posted to the list. The fact of the matter is people are going to post things on the list without reading the manual or the FAQ. It goes with the territory. It annoys me too, but there is no good solution for the problem. There is the fact that a lot of people are new and don't really know where to go to find answers. Even if they go to the web site, they still may not know that they need to be looking for information on naming variables with variables or that fopen opens a file or whatever. K E I T H V A N C E Software Engineer n-Link Corporation On Fri, 16 Mar 2001, David Robley wrote: On Fri, 16 Mar 2001 03:34, Rick St Jean wrote: It is there a list of most frequently asked questions? It seems that people ask the same questions, again and again, they do not READ THE MANUAL. Yes I have asked 2 stupid questions, but I really did search and I am reading my manuals, the PHP and the book that I bought. Seems to me that a significant number of questions arise from people who don't have any idea of the concepts behind 'programming', if I may overload that term. 'How do I make a loop work' 'How can I print the numbers 1 to 5'. Also I would like to know if there would be a demand for an experienced mailing list? I am just frustrated by the same 3 questions that pop up about once a day. The rest of the posts are great. As has been noted before, there is little purpose in splitting the list like that. If the 'newbies' all go to the 'inexperienced' list, from whence do they gain wisdom? And then the 'newbies' learnn about the 'experienced' list and go there and we're back to square one. :-) Check the archives for _extended_ discussion on that topic. -- David Robley| WEBMASTER Mail List Admin RESEARCH CENTRE FOR INJURY STUDIES | http://www.nisu.flinders.edu.au/ AusEinet| http://auseinet.flinders.edu.au/ Flinders University, ADELAIDE, SOUTH AUSTRALIA -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] FAQ
Just something I notices... At the bottom of the page there is a link to the mailing list (well, not directly to the list, but anywho): PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) Why not add this aswell: Before posting, check the PHP Generall Mailing List Archive (http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=php-general) I like this one better than the manual to search for problems similar to the ones I have... // Tobias Talltorp "Rick St Jean" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... It is there a list of most frequently asked questions? It seems that people ask the same questions, again and again, they do not READ THE MANUAL. Yes I have asked 2 stupid questions, but I really did search and I am reading my manuals, the PHP and the book that I bought. Also I would like to know if there would be a demand for an experienced mailing list? I am just frustrated by the same 3 questions that pop up about once a day. The rest of the posts are great. Rick ## # Rick St Jean, # [EMAIL PROTECTED] # President of Design Shark, # http://www.designshark.com/ # Quick Contact: http://www.designshark.com/messaging.ihtml # Tel: 905-684-2952 ## -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP] FAQ
How many times are people going to complain about no-brainer questions being posted to the list. The fact of the matter is people are going to post things on the list without reading the manual or the FAQ. It goes with the territory. It annoys me too, but there is no good solution for the problem. There is the fact that a lot of people are new and don't really know where to go to find answers. Even if they go to the web site, they still may not know that they need to be looking for information on naming variables with variables or that fopen opens a file or whatever. K E I T H V A N C E I think the argument has less to do with people asking questions about PHP and how it works, and more about people asking basica programming questions without knowing it. Fundamental programming concepts, like the scope of a variable, passing by reference or by value, or even looping are things newbie's simply do not understand. Why? Because they don't know they need to learn the concepts and theories of programming before learning to program. It sounds odd, but that is the way it is. People asking questions about how a loop works are not usually asking how a PHP loop works. The same for arrays. They are really saying: "This is the first real programming language I am out to learn, and I don't understand the concept behind a For/Next Loop." This isn't a bad thing, heck, we were all newbies at one point, and in a sense, we are all newbies at something. I think the argument is that their are many people who don't want to learn how and why a For/Next Loop works, but instead simply want someone to fix the problem for them. That isn't programming. Programming (and yes, I know, PHP is technically a scripting language, but lets not jump that fence as well) is about trial and error, logic, and creativity, but most importantly, problem solving. Most of the newbies get into PHP expecting a tutorial on every topic. If they can't find a tutorial on how to print out 5 numbers, they expect someone to show them how to do it. They don't try and solve the problem themselves, and that is a problem. I don't mind assisting where I can, however, I don't like rewriting a script for someone when they don't even take the time to try and learn the fundamentals. Most newbies I have met fall into two categories. The majority start out wanting to learn PHP because someone said it was easy to learn, which it is, from a programmers point of view. However, when in the second week of learning their first programming language they can't program that PHP Database Content Management System with Instant Yahoo News Retrival complete with User Database, Forums, and Real Time Foo, they start getting upset and say that PHP sucks. Those same people may also complain because they can't find a tutorial on how to create a Forum Database, and all they can find are tutorials on the basics of Database Design. I think this is the real problem. Try to run before they have learned to crawl and walk. Jason Lotito www.NewbieNetwork.net Where those who can, teach; and those who can, learn. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP] FAQ
Ye 2001-03-15 20:11 -0800, Jason Lotito skribis: (someone) How many times are people going to complain about no-brainer questions being posted to the list. The fact of the matter is people are going to post things on the list without reading the manual or the FAQ. It goes with the territory. It annoys me too, but there is no good solution for the problem. There is the fact that a lot of people are new and don't There is a single solution. Instantly delete the message. If you want to flame lamers and delete all followups, that is fine, too. What is not fine is to let the response become itself a subject of discussion. (All this is IMHO). really know where to go to find answers. Even if they go to the web site, they still may not know that they need to be looking for information on naming variables with variables or that fopen opens a file or whatever. That is why it is preferable to simply delete rather than flame. But if they evidently have made nil effort they probably should attract flames. It is not your job to educate people who are nowhere near ready to understand the matter but are simply attracted to what is newsy, or reputed to be profitable. I recently saw a message from a "Linux Systems Engineer" who had upgraded to the Linux 2.4.2 kernel without a clue about the need to upgrade other software and instead was pleading to the wide world to help him, although the "Changes" file has been in the Linux kernel distribution for years. Don't help idiot imposters. There are certain things that people need help on. Typically they are cases where the development has outrun the documentation, or the documentation is very bad, written by and for those who already know the answers. If you have worked out the solution to the problem, please share it. But there is an assumption that you have some kind of obligation to help lamers, that that is what mailing lists and newsgroups are for. It is totally false. K E I T H V A N C E I think the argument has less to do with people asking questions about PHP and how it works, and more about people asking basica programming questions without knowing it. Fundamental programming concepts, like the scope of a variable, passing by reference or by value, or even looping are things newbie's simply do not understand. Why? Because they don't know they need to learn the concepts and theories of programming before learning to program. It sounds odd, but that is the way it is. People asking questions about how a loop works are not usually asking how a PHP loop works. The same for arrays. They are really saying: "This is the first real programming language I am out to learn, and I don't understand the concept behind a For/Next Loop." This isn't a bad thing, heck, we were all newbies at one point, and in a sense, we are all newbies at something. But we don't decide to waste the time and resources of everyone else to save ourselves the effort of looking into the matter. It is not good enough to say, I am a newbie, and therefore I have the right to waste the time and resources of others, because they were newbies once or are newbies about something. If it is not in the PHP documentation because it is not PHP-specific, ignore the question. If it IS in the PHP documentation, ignore the question. It is definitely a bad thing, strategically destructive of the utility of mailing lists and newsgroups, which over the last five years has caused observable degradation of the Internet culture, to help such lamers. It is definitely a bad thing to help out people who have never entered the computer section of a bookshop, are not interested in computer programming but want to set up commercial PHP sites. It is definitely a bad thing to help out people who cannot learn without a helper and so ask passers-by to, for no fee, teach them highly technical matters, who think you are there waiting to be made a convenience of, that asking questions of strangers on line is a complete substitute for studying the matter. It is a long time since I saw a response saying simply, "RTFM". I should be seeing it much, much, much more. If I ask a question on line and am ignored, I usually continue to study the matter, and sometimes become embarrassed about having asked such a dumb question. It is actually positively helpful to fail to answer questions. Probably, conversely, if is positively unhelpful to answer questions where the documentation is reasonable, as it certainly is re the separate PHP statements. You are not doing people a favor by becoming their crutch. I think the argument is that their are many people who don't want to learn how and why a For/Next Loop works, but instead simply want someone to fix the problem for them. That isn't programming. Programming (and yes, I Yes. know, PHP is technically a scripting language, but lets not jump that fence as well) is about trial and error, logic, and creativity, but most
RE: [PHP] FAQ - Newbie perspective
Hi,
I don't want to argue about anything, just point out something
that occurred
to me.
First of all, I am a newbie as far as PHP is concerned, though I am more
than comfortable with programming.
I recently asked a pretty simple question on this list ("Finding the
depth"). I could have found out the answer to it in about 10-15 minutes on
my own, thanks to my experience with programming. Still, I posted the
question to this list. Why?
What did I gain:
* I saved time.
* I got to see _PHP_code_ for solving my problem. Any solution from me
would have been more C++ than PHP. I got to become more familiar with
thinking the PHP way.
Very reasonable.
What did I lose:
* Nothing, because reading the code snippet and investigating the
functions used therein taught me all I needed to know (for this
instance). Following the "See also" links taught me some more.
Did I _waste_ somebody else's time? I don't really think so.
Plus, a posting
can always be ignored...
Yes, but not dozens of 'wastefull' postings...=(
An answer saying "RTFM" and pointing me the relevant functions
(even if they
were just function names) would have been good enough too. But then I
wouldn't have gotten to see an experienced person's PHP code.
The question is: how many of you think that that posting was "ok" and how
many had to curb the temptation to flame me :-)?
The question itself was fine. I think the FAQ postings haven't been about
Newbie's to PHP, but newbie's to programming in general asking Programming
questions in the guise of being PHP questions. There are many resources out
there on the basics of programming, and their is simply no excuse for not
understanding what a variable is, what a loop is, and how a function works.
However, I don't expect the average person to know the Rules of
Normalization for database design, nor do I expect the average PHP person to
understand classes. These concepts, while common for the experiences
programmer, is something that some people just do not deal with. These are
the times the questions are okay. But when you simply don't understand the
concept behind what you want (at least in your post, you understood what you
wanted to accomplish, understood how it could be accomplished, but wanted to
instead find a better/faster way), you are merely hiding the truth.
The mailing list is here not so PHP programmers can program things for
people, but to help people learn (and help out with the occasional problem).
It just bothers me that I spend time learning to program, learning other
languages, learning PHP. If I can't figure something out, I don't jump
right to the mailing list or the news group. I take my time, look through
all my manuals, my own code, look back through the PHPManual and logically
deduce what the problem is. So far that method has worked very well.
Agreed, sometimes a function may not be working like I thought it would, and
I need someone to post some sample code for it in use, but that is not me
not understanding the concepts of programming. Thats merely syntax.
Programming is 90% creativity. The rest is just syntax.
Jason Lotito
www.NewbieNetwork.net
Where those who can, teach;
and those who can, learn.
Btw, I too don't like all those "PHP editor" and "How to loop" type of
questions ;-). But then, I simply delete them and that's it!
--
Regards,
Harshdeep Singh Jawanda.
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