Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 - or free DXP
Well said Mike - Original Message - From: Michael Reagan (EDSI) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 10:42 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 - or free DXP Jami. I don't think you will get any response from Altium. They have moved in their own direction apart from customer requirements. I just wanted to add to your list. Several years ago all I wanted was the PCB tools upgrade. No Schematic, no PLD, no Simulation, nothing else but PCB. The sales person at Protel convinced me to buy the full package, basically because there were no other options. Since the autorouter is useless, I use 1/5 of the Protel tool set but paid for all of it. I am in the same boat again for upgrading. I don't want Protels schematic tools, I don't want their autorouter, their PLD tools etc. So why should I have to pay for them? Most likely, I will have to pay for the full suite again. That really sucks because Protel PCB should cost me only 1/5 of what I have been paying since that is all I want or use Mike Reagan - Original Message - From: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 2:49 AM Subject: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 - or free DXP Aren't we about due for Service Pack 7 for Protel 99 SE? DXP, even by the most expert opinions, is not ready for Prime Time yet, and it appears that most people are saying that it will be about a year before it is really ready. (See the Altium DXP forum for more on that issue.) There is the additional question of whether or not one wants to pay for an new system when the one that he already has paid for still has some unresolved problems and issues. While I know that there are those that will say that there has been a free ride with all of the free Service Packs that have been issued for Protel 99 SE, I would respectfully remind anybody who might think that, that there are numerous people out there who have bought P99SE at SP5 or SP6, and some of which have even been bitten by the price increase last July, and yet will still not receive a free upgrade if they purchased before October 1st of last year, and still have not seen any response from Altium to some of the remaining problems and issues with P99SE which have been reported to Altium. Please note that some of these people have not even had P99SE for a full year yet, and irrespective of how long they may have actually had it, they have still seen no resolution to problems reported within a week or two of purchase. I would respectfully submit that many people out there have purchased a product, Protel 99 SE, for a very large sum of money, which they intend to use, and intend to keep, and intend to have it properly perform the function for which they bought it, and for which it was designed, and have the right to have the remaining problems with that product fixed with another Service Pack. There is an existing Bug list. There are numerous other problems that have been addressed in this forum which are reasonable canidates for inclusion in a Service Pack 7. I would respectfully submit that this issue should be discussed here in this forum, in a reasonable fashion, to determine if there is enough basis for requesting another Service Pack for Protel 99 SE from Altium. I would further submit that minimally that Service Pack should be free to anyone who purchased Protel 99 SE while it was already at SP6, and possibly even SP5. Further, I believe that whether or not older users of P99SE should have to pay any fee for the Service Pack, would be a topic for discussion, and would among other things, be partially based on just what was fixed versus how long it has been a known issue or problem. I am not exactly sure what the date of the release of SP6 is, but I know that it was in effect when my employer bought another seat for me early last July of 2001, about a week after the price increase. I respectfully submit that it is reasonable to assume that at least from the time of the release of Service Pack 6, and possibly even Service Pack 5, that Altium has been working towards, and concentrating all of their efforts, not on solving the remaining problems with Protel 99 SE, but rather on the release, and sale, via ATS and upgrades, as well as new sales, of their new Product, DXP. Where does that leave recent purchasers of Protel 99 SE? I submit that Altium has not finished fixing the Protel 99 SE product, and that there are those customers who have purchased Protel 99 SE prior to October 1st 2001, who are entitled to have the product that they paid for upgraded to Service Pack 7. I would respectfully submit that Protel / Altium may have resolved the update issue for those who purchased P99SE
Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 - or free DXP
-Original Message- From: Michael Reagan (EDSI) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] snippity-doo-dah I use 1/5 of the Protel tool set but paid for all of itI don't want their autorouter, their PLD tools etc. So why should I have to pay for them? Most likely, I will have to pay for the full suite again. You can thank their shiny new wall-street corporate management team for that. One used to be able to purchase the components, until the corporation decided that they could force additional profit by coercive methodology. Have you never wondered why there are five separate license code entry points? aj * Tracking #: B85474D7949B1449B359F8E3DCC3867B8DF6AB8B * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 - or free DXP
Amen - Original Message - From: Andrew Jenkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 8:12 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 - or free DXP -Original Message- From: Michael Reagan (EDSI) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] snippity-doo-dah I use 1/5 of the Protel tool set but paid for all of itI don't want their autorouter, their PLD tools etc. So why should I have to pay for them? Most likely, I will have to pay for the full suite again. You can thank their shiny new wall-street corporate management team for that. One used to be able to purchase the components, until the corporation decided that they could force additional profit by coercive methodology. Have you never wondered why there are five separate license code entry points? aj * Tracking #: B85474D7949B1449B359F8E3DCC3867B8DF6AB8B * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 - or free DXP
Not only did I pay for it . They will take my ATS money to future develop things I don't want... then charge me for them again when they sell it to me. OH my! I hear voices from graveyard disgruntled ACCEL users saying the same thing before ACCEL died while under their last management team. Mike - Original Message - From: Andrew Jenkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 5:12 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 - or free DXP -Original Message- From: Michael Reagan (EDSI) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] snippity-doo-dah I use 1/5 of the Protel tool set but paid for all of itI don't want their autorouter, their PLD tools etc. So why should I have to pay for them? Most likely, I will have to pay for the full suite again. You can thank their shiny new wall-street corporate management team for that. One used to be able to purchase the components, until the corporation decided that they could force additional profit by coercive methodology. Have you never wondered why there are five separate license code entry points? aj * Tracking #: B85474D7949B1449B359F8E3DCC3867B8DF6AB8B * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 - or free DXP
Hi Mike, You have a very good point. We were reseller for Protel in Sweden until December 2001. We argued a lot about this because we wanted to be able to sell them separately as that was the need of our customers. Often a customer wanted to get for example 5 schematics and 1 pcb. Eventually they changed and it was possible to sell and upgrade individual packages. Don't know about DXP. I only hope it will be possible to buy them individually. We have 5 full licenses of 99SE, and we are not in a rush to upgrade to DXP. /Mattias Ericson Mattias Ericson Omnisys Instruments AB Gruvgatan 8 SE-421 30 Västra Frölunda, SWEDEN Phone: +46 31 734 34 08 Fax: +46 31 734 34 29 http://www.omnisys.se Michael Reagan (EDSI) To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]cc: t Subject: Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 - or free DXP 2002-08-30 16:42 Please respond to Protel EDA Forum Jami. I don't think you will get any response from Altium. They have moved in their own direction apart from customer requirements. I just wanted to add to your list. Several years ago all I wanted was the PCB tools upgrade. No Schematic, no PLD, no Simulation, nothing else but PCB. The sales person at Protel convinced me to buy the full package, basically because there were no other options. Since the autorouter is useless, I use 1/5 of the Protel tool set but paid for all of it. I am in the same boat again for upgrading. I don't want Protels schematic tools, I don't want their autorouter, their PLD tools etc. So why should I have to pay for them? Most likely, I will have to pay for the full suite again. That really sucks because Protel PCB should cost me only 1/5 of what I have been paying since that is all I want or use Mike Reagan - Original Message - From: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 2:49 AM Subject: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 - or free DXP Aren't we about due for Service Pack 7 for Protel 99 SE? DXP, even by the most expert opinions, is not ready for Prime Time yet, and it appears that most people are saying that it will be about a year before it is really ready. (See the Altium DXP forum for more on that issue.) There is the additional question of whether or not one wants to pay for an new system when the one that he already has paid for still has some unresolved problems and issues. While I know that there are those that will say that there has been a free ride with all of the free Service Packs that have been issued for Protel 99 SE, I would respectfully remind anybody who might think that, that there are numerous people out there who have bought P99SE at SP5 or SP6, and some of which have even been bitten by the price increase last July, and yet will still not receive a free upgrade if they purchased before October 1st of last year, and still have not seen any response from Altium to some of the remaining problems and issues with P99SE which have been reported to Altium. Please note that some of these people have not even had P99SE for a full year yet, and irrespective of how long they may have actually had it, they have still seen no resolution to problems reported within a week or two of purchase. I would respectfully submit that many people out there have purchased a product, Protel 99
Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 - or free DXP
I would be for an SP7, however I think it more important that Altium very clearly define their support strategy for 99SE, which I do not believe they have. Have they actually released an end of support date for 99SE?? If not they need to do so. I realize in a perfect world they would love to have everyone move to DXP yesterday. But that will not happen and they need to define the time span for support end. If that support end is in the VERY near future than SP7 would most likely will not happen. However if they plan on supporting 99SE for a year or so I belive they are obligated to do one last SP. Bob Wofe Bob Wolfe * Tracking #: 0960A42D333D754599FE4ECFC707488C19A802D5 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 - or free DXP
One problem I am seriously encountering here, is with my management in explaining exactly what ATS (or even the DXP upgrade) will buy them. They like to see a quote for exactly what they are buying (and delivery dates), spend the money and have something delivered for their money. They are worried about spending and getting absolutely no return on there investment. Buy a faster PC costing X, recover that cost in Y months as Z much more work has been done. How do I express this for ATS (and DXP)? I once worked for a company that used Orcad (V3.0 I think), who religeously bought annual update and support (only £200/year per seat for 5 seats), as for a while that provided updates, from V1.0 to V2 to V3 + updates. But when nothing was forthcoming during one year (ie the order said £200 and yet there was no delivery note !!) and support was never used, as they either couldn't provide a solution or the Orcad users just solved the problems amongst themselves, the annaual update and support was not renewed (10 seats by then). Eventually paid for a V3 to V4 update on one seat to solve a specific problem, but was unable to get any further money after having been burnt spending over £1000 and getting absolutlely nothing in return. I get very similar feelings about ATS. Ian -Original Message- From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 August 2002 10:50 To: Protel EDA Forum Cc: JaMi Smith Subject: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 - or free DXP Aren't we about due for Service Pack 7 for Protel 99 SE? DXP, even by the most expert opinions, is not ready for Prime Time yet, and it appears that most people are saying that it will be about a year before it is really ready. (See the Altium DXP forum for more on that issue.) There is the additional question of whether or not one wants to pay for an new system when the one that he already has paid for still has some unresolved problems and issues. While I know that there are those that will say that there has been a free ride with all of the free Service Packs that have been issued for Protel 99 SE, I would respectfully remind anybody who might think that, that there are numerous people out there who have bought P99SE at SP5 or SP6, and some of which have even been bitten by the price increase last July, and yet will still not receive a free upgrade if they purchased before October 1st of last year, and still have not seen any response from Altium to some of the remaining problems and issues with P99SE which have been reported to Altium. Please note that some of these people have not even had P99SE for a full year yet, and irrespective of how long they may have actually had it, they have still seen no resolution to problems reported within a week or two of purchase. I would respectfully submit that many people out there have purchased a product, Protel 99 SE, for a very large sum of money, which they intend to use, and intend to keep, and intend to have it properly perform the function for which they bought it, and for which it was designed, and have the right to have the remaining problems with that product fixed with another Service Pack. There is an existing Bug list. There are numerous other problems that have been addressed in this forum which are reasonable canidates for inclusion in a Service Pack 7. I would respectfully submit that this issue should be discussed here in this forum, in a reasonable fashion, to determine if there is enough basis for requesting another Service Pack for Protel 99 SE from Altium. I would further submit that minimally that Service Pack should be free to anyone who purchased Protel 99 SE while it was already at SP6, and possibly even SP5. Further, I believe that whether or not older users of P99SE should have to pay any fee for the Service Pack, would be a topic for discussion, and would among other things, be partially based on just what was fixed versus how long it has been a known issue or problem. I am not exactly sure what the date of the release of SP6 is, but I know that it was in effect when my employer bought another seat for me early last July of 2001, about a week after the price increase. I respectfully submit that it is reasonable to assume that at least from the time of the release of Service Pack 6, and possibly even Service Pack 5, that Altium has been working towards, and concentrating all of their efforts, not on solving the remaining problems with Protel 99 SE, but rather on the release, and sale, via ATS and upgrades, as well as new sales, of their new Product, DXP. Where does that leave recent purchasers of Protel 99 SE? I submit that Altium has not finished fixing the Protel 99 SE product, and that there are those customers who have purchased Protel 99 SE prior to October 1st 2001, who are entitled to have the product that they paid for upgraded to Service Pack 7. I would respectfully submit that Protel / Altium
Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 - or free DXP
We have 3 schematic licences for our 3 designers and a full Protel licence for our PCB designer. All 4 having full licences (schematic, PCB, simulator, PLD) would be waste of money. Never used or even ever had the slightest inclination to use, slightest customer request to use, or even felt the need to investigate to use the simulator or PLD design, so that would be a waste of money as well. ian -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 August 2002 13:56 To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 - or free DXP Hi Mike, You have a very good point. We were reseller for Protel in Sweden until December 2001. We argued a lot about this because we wanted to be able to sell them separately as that was the need of our customers. Often a customer wanted to get for example 5 schematics and 1 pcb. Eventually they changed and it was possible to sell and upgrade individual packages. Don't know about DXP. I only hope it will be possible to buy them individually. We have 5 full licenses of 99SE, and we are not in a rush to upgrade to DXP. /Mattias Ericson Mattias Ericson Omnisys Instruments AB Gruvgatan 8 SE-421 30 Västra Frölunda, SWEDEN Phone: +46 31 734 34 08 Fax: +46 31 734 34 29 http://www.omnisys.se Michael Reagan (EDSI) To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]cc: t Subject: Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 - or free DXP 2002-08-30 16:42 Please respond to Protel EDA Forum Jami. I don't think you will get any response from Altium. They have moved in their own direction apart from customer requirements. I just wanted to add to your list. Several years ago all I wanted was the PCB tools upgrade. No Schematic, no PLD, no Simulation, nothing else but PCB. The sales person at Protel convinced me to buy the full package, basically because there were no other options. Since the autorouter is useless, I use 1/5 of the Protel tool set but paid for all of it. I am in the same boat again for upgrading. I don't want Protels schematic tools, I don't want their autorouter, their PLD tools etc. So why should I have to pay for them? Most likely, I will have to pay for the full suite again. That really sucks because Protel PCB should cost me only 1/5 of what I have been paying since that is all I want or use Mike Reagan - Original Message - From: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 2:49 AM Subject: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 - or free DXP Aren't we about due for Service Pack 7 for Protel 99 SE? DXP, even by the most expert opinions, is not ready for Prime Time yet, and it appears that most people are saying that it will be about a year before it is really ready. (See the Altium DXP forum for more on that issue.) There is the additional question of whether or not one wants to pay for an new system when the one that he already has paid for still has some unresolved problems and issues. While I know that there are those that will say that there has been a free ride with all of the free Service Packs that have been issued for Protel 99 SE, I would respectfully remind anybody who might think that, that there are numerous people out there who have bought P99SE at SP5 or SP6, and some of which have even been bitten by the price increase last July, and yet will still not receive a free upgrade if they purchased before October 1st of last year, and still have not seen any response from Altium to some of the remaining problems and issues with P99SE which have been reported to Altium. Please note that some of these people have not even had P99SE for a full year yet, and irrespective of how long they may have actually had it, they have still seen no resolution to problems reported within a week or two of purchase. I would respectfully submit that many people out there have purchased a product, Protel 99 SE, for a very large sum of money, which they intend to use, and intend to keep, and intend to have it properly perform the function for which they bought it, and for which it was designed, and have the right to have the remaining problems with that product fixed with another Service Pack. There is an existing Bug list. There are numerous other problems that have been addressed in this forum which are reasonable canidates for inclusion in a Service Pack 7. I would respectfully submit that this issue should be discussed here in this forum, in a reasonable fashion
Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 - or free DXP
Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 - or free DXP
Mattias Ericson wrote Often a customer wanted to get for example 5 schematics and 1 pcb. Eventually they changed and it was possible to sell and upgrade individual packages. Not only is that, there are still customers and small companies out there that want only schematic capture tools at a low cost.If I am not mistaken you can only purchase Schematic tools from Orcad and Eagle software. Cadence reluctantly sold me the sch tools because I am such a small 1 seat user. It was a pain the a..z dealing with them. They weren't interested in my $ 200 upgrade anymore. It will also interesting to see what market share Cadence looses with OrCad. Orcad had 70 % market share of users two years ago. This does nt translate to 70% in dollar terms. Mike Reagan * Tracking #: 0987A9416DAB9E48A65D75C3E3D124C18EC2A595 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 - or free DXP
Not only is that, there are still customers and small companies out there that want only schematic capture tools at a low cost.If I am not mistaken you can only purchase Schematic tools from Orcad and Eagle software. Cadence reluctantly sold me the sch tools because I am such a IMO, Altium should give away the SCH editor. This would greatly increase their PCB suite sales. The reason: Protel SCH would then become the new standard for schematic entry. By giving away the SCH, chip companies would use it to base their reference designs on. Then, users of those chips would take the reference SCH, and use a free copy of the SCH editor to create their design. Once they are used to Protel SCH, they would probably buy the PCB suite. I get annoyed every time I go to a chip mfrs website to download reference schematics, and they are all in Orcad. I don't want to mess with conversion to Protel, because I have tried this before several times, and it has never worked. I end up having to create all my own parts and schematics from scratch. What a pain for huge parts with hundreds of pins! Altium should think about all those engineering students and hobbyists who someday will be working for companies or starting their own businesses. Get those people hooked on good products, and you will have a good revenue stream into the future. Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: Michael Reagan (EDSI) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 - or free DXP * Tracking #: 927B5D386A1375418AAB921DE9FF00C42F69C63B * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 - or free DXP
Amen! Steve Smith Product Engineer Staco Energy Products Co. Web Site: www.stacoenergy.com -Original Message- From: Bagotronix Tech Support [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 11:01 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 - or free DXP IMO, Altium should give away the SCH editor. This would greatly increase their PCB suite sales. The reason: Protel SCH would then become the new standard for schematic entry. By giving away the SCH, chip companies would use it to base their reference designs on. Then, users of those chips would take the reference SCH, and use a free copy of the SCH editor to create their design. Once they are used to Protel SCH, they would probably buy the PCB suite. I get annoyed every time I go to a chip mfrs website to download reference schematics, and they are all in Orcad. I don't want to mess with conversion to Protel, because I have tried this before several times, and it has never worked. I end up having to create all my own parts and schematics from scratch. What a pain for huge parts with hundreds of pins! Altium should think about all those engineering students and hobbyists who someday will be working for companies or starting their own businesses. Get those people hooked on good products, and you will have a good revenue stream into the future. Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com * Tracking #: 0699969DAF644E45A7E72A6AA89C3393CB11 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 - or free DXP
We pay enough, we should receive stuff that works. but... stockholders come first. * Tracking #: 163FC3EAA288CF4D9410DA2307239122E11C8C5C * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 - or free DXP
Roger, my feelings would be: This is an end of life product. There is no great recurring value to Protel in supporting it with service Packs. We want to forgo switch to DXP, for the time-being. So, there has to be some return to Protel for putting the effort into fixing the outstanding issues. The fixes would have a value to me, so I should be willing to pay something for it. Sincerely, Brad Velander. Lead PCB Designer Norsat International Inc. Microwave Products Tel (604) 292-9089 (direct line) Fax (604) 292-9010 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.norsat.com Norsat's Microwave Products Division has now achieved ISO 9001:2000 certification -Original Message- From: Roger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 1:02 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 - or free DXP We pay enough, we should receive stuff that works. but... stockholders come first. * Tracking #: 62E26727DE93614F8A92889222DBA9100851ED5C * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 - or free DXP
i think that that is fairly stated Dennis Saputelli Brad Velander wrote: Roger, my feelings would be: This is an end of life product. There is no great recurring value to Protel in supporting it with service Packs. We want to forgo switch to DXP, for the time-being. So, there has to be some return to Protel for putting the effort into fixing the outstanding issues. The fixes would have a value to me, so I should be willing to pay something for it. Sincerely, Brad Velander. Lead PCB Designer Norsat International Inc. Microwave Products Tel (604) 292-9089 (direct line) Fax (604) 292-9010 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.norsat.com Norsat's Microwave Products Division has now achieved ISO 9001:2000 certification * Tracking #: F4FCF2F6EB396945AAD61A0E8783C9B0F9078B94 * -- ___ www.integratedcontrolsinc.comIntegrated Controls, Inc. tel: 415-647-04802851 21st Street fax: 415-647-3003San Francisco, CA 94110 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 - or free DXP
Well it's early in the game for Altium and ATS. Just because maintenance hasn't been done properly before doesn't mean it won't work this time. However, they really need to make some PR progress or else it's really going to hurt them. If they are fast and furious with the service packs and feature implementations, then ATS may work out. If not, we're all here to complain about it or go somewhere else. As a side not, I just read a post from a guy that was still using P98. I've heard of a few people still there because they didn't want to jump into 99 or 99SE. I was there too right when 99 came out. I had work to do, and the DDB was freaking me out. I ran both tools for some time. Working in 98, and checking out 99. I eventually really liked 99 and 99SE. Generating gerbers is so damn easy in 99SE especially when I'm tweaking things, re-generating, viewing, repeat cycle. Even though DXP is missing a lot of stuff we had, they are working to add it back and fix bugs (and I hope optimize the speed) so for now I'm working in 99SE and trying DXP. The masking feature of DXP is REALLY handy for doing sanity checks of all sort of things. -Original Message- From: Mark Gavett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 7:09 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 - or free DXP WOW - Is this deja vu? I recall this same discussion when we purchased Protel 98 at the wrong time just prior to Protel 99 and then 99SE being released. (IMO) I would not expect any further service packs for obsolete product such as Protel 99SE. Protel has shown this end of life policy with the Protel 98 and 99 packages. We wish Altium the best of luck with DXP and ATS. After all that's why we gave up on Tango/Accel EDA and moved to Protel. Thanks Mark - Original Message - Greetings, I fully agree with JaMi on this one. We have a huge investment in training for P99se. The DXP release is a totally new product that we will not be forced into. If Protel 99se is no longer supported or updated to be comparable with products from other vendors, we will evaluate all EDA software again and select what we feel best suits our needs. Support history is sure to be a factor in this decision. DXP, in its present form, is not likely to be a contender. If Altium wants to keep its user base, they should continue to release service packs for 99se. Otherwise, they will not get any ATS fees for a product that is not ready for prime time. Michael Watnoski -Original Message- From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 5:50 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Cc: JaMi Smith Subject: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 - or free DXP Aren't we about due for Service Pack 7 for Protel 99 SE? DXP, even by the most expert opinions, is not ready for Prime Time yet, and it appears that most people are saying that it will be about a year before it is really ready. (See the Altium DXP forum for more on that issue.) There is the additional question of whether or not one wants to pay for an new system when the one that he already has paid for still has some unresolved problems and issues. While I know that there are those that will say that there has been a free ride with all of the free Service Packs that have been issued for Protel 99 SE, I would respectfully remind anybody who might think that, that there are numerous people out there who have bought P99SE at SP5 or SP6, and some of which have even been bitten by the price increase last July, and yet will still not receive a free upgrade if they purchased before October 1st of last year, and still have not seen any response from Altium to some of the remaining problems and issues with P99SE which have been reported to Altium. Please note that some of these people have not even had P99SE for a full year yet, and irrespective of how long they may have actually had it, they have still seen no resolution to problems reported within a week or two of purchase. I would respectfully submit that many people out there have purchased a product, Protel 99 SE, for a very large sum of money, which they intend to use, and intend to keep, and intend to have it properly perform the function for which they bought it, and for which it was designed, and have the right to have the remaining problems with that product fixed with another Service Pack. There is an existing Bug list. There are numerous other problems that have been addressed in this forum which are reasonable canidates for inclusion in a Service Pack 7. I would respectfully submit that this issue should be discussed here in this forum, in a reasonable fashion, to determine if there is enough basis for requesting another Service Pack for Protel 99
