Re: [Qgis-user] Ubuntu updating instructions

[Bernd Vogelgesang]

Am 13.09.2016, 16:51 Uhr, schrieb Blumentrath, Stefan  
<stefan.blumentr...@nina.no>:




And if I may add:

Even if the users are aware of the fact that ubuntugis-unstable contains  
the current releases, it can be hard to impossible >to convince a  
GIS-ignorant system administrator that it is OK to install “unstable”  
packages.



But this issue is not a QGIS issue I guess...



Actually, this problem could be easily solved, if there was only a single  
line of explanation added next to each of the repositories in the install  
instructions, so the uneducated or doubtful can be told and convinced  
which package ships which flavour.
And yes, I was told to change this myself and given privileges to do so a  
while ago, but I couldn't find the energy to fiddle myself into the  
system. And I am still confused myself, cause behaviour seems to change  
from release to release a bit.


At the moment, I can hardly write cause my right hand is in plaster and  
writing and pushing a mouse is a nightmare. So could not some less  
handicapped and more literate guy add some explanations to the website?


Cheers
Bernd






From: Qgis-user [mailto:qgis-user-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of  
Randal Hale

Sent: 13. september 2016 16:45
To: qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org
Subject: Re: [Qgis-user] Ubuntu updating instructions




On 09/13/2016 10:23 AM, Jürgen E. Fischer wrote:

Hi Randal,
On Tue, 13. Sep 2016 at 00:21:21 -0400, Randal Hale wrote:

It's a little bit confusing. There are like three repositories:
stable, unstable, and testing. Testing you don't want (unless you
want to test packages). Typically stable is a bit older. Unstable is
current. Which doesn't really make sense - but that's the way it is.

Not like it matters much in this case.
We have packages in qgis.org/debian/ against the plain versions of the
distributions (debian and **ubuntu**) and in qgis/ubuntugis/ packages  
against

newer dependencies from - and only from - ubuntugis-unstable.
Looks like it's hard for people to accept that there are also ubuntu  
packages
in a directory called debian and that probably makes them jump on the  
other

because it has ubuntu in it's name.


I was thinking about it last night (and I was up way to late) and it is  
a bit confusing for the casual user. They've installed Ubuntu (or  
mint/debian/>xubuntu/etc) and they may not understand ubuntu is based  
off debian. So like you said - they see debian but want to use Ubuntu.  
They go to >UbuntuGIS and they see the repositories for UbuntuGIS and  
the choice is unstable (and no one likes unstable software) and stable  
(which doesn't >contain the newest software). So you end up going "Use  
Unstable because it's stable and current".



Under my /etc/apt/sources.list.d directory I made a qgis.list file
and put the following in there:
deb http://qgis.org/debian xenial main
deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntugis/ubuntugis-unstable/ubuntu  
xenial main
Why?  That are the packages not based on ubuntugis with the  
dependencies from

ubuntugis.


Do I have this wrong? I thought I had the repositories for the install  
correct based off the directions on qgis.org. Which I could completely  
have it >wrong. With the above repos I'm getting QGIS 2.16.x and GDAL  
2.1.x.

Jürgen




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Re: [Qgis-user] Ubuntu updating instructions

[Blumentrath, Stefan]

And if I may add:
Even if the users are aware of the fact that ubuntugis-unstable contains the 
current releases, it can be hard to impossible to convince a GIS-ignorant 
system administrator that it is OK to install “unstable” packages.

But this issue is not a QGIS issue I guess...


From: Qgis-user [mailto:qgis-user-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Randal 
Hale
Sent: 13. september 2016 16:45
To: qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org
Subject: Re: [Qgis-user] Ubuntu updating instructions




On 09/13/2016 10:23 AM, Jürgen E. Fischer wrote:

Hi Randal,



On Tue, 13. Sep 2016 at 00:21:21 -0400, Randal Hale wrote:

It's a little bit confusing. There are like three repositories:

stable, unstable, and testing. Testing you don't want (unless you

want to test packages). Typically stable is a bit older. Unstable is

current. Which doesn't really make sense - but that's the way it is.



Not like it matters much in this case.



We have packages in qgis.org/debian/ against the plain versions of the

distributions (debian and **ubuntu**) and in qgis/ubuntugis/ packages against

newer dependencies from - and only from - ubuntugis-unstable.



Looks like it's hard for people to accept that there are also ubuntu packages

in a directory called debian and that probably makes them jump on the other

because it has ubuntu in it's name.
I was thinking about it last night (and I was up way to late) and it is a bit 
confusing for the casual user. They've installed Ubuntu (or 
mint/debian/xubuntu/etc) and they may not understand ubuntu is based off 
debian. So like you said - they see debian but want to use Ubuntu. They go to 
UbuntuGIS and they see the repositories for UbuntuGIS and the choice is 
unstable (and no one likes unstable software) and stable (which doesn't contain 
the newest software). So you end up going "Use Unstable because it's stable and 
current".








Under my /etc/apt/sources.list.d directory I made a qgis.list file

and put the following in there:



deb http://qgis.org/debian xenial main

deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntugis/ubuntugis-unstable/ubuntu xenial main



Why?  That are the packages not based on ubuntugis with the dependencies from

ubuntugis.
Do I have this wrong? I thought I had the repositories for the install correct 
based off the directions on qgis.org. Which I could completely have it wrong. 
With the above repos I'm getting QGIS 2.16.x and GDAL 2.1.x.






Jürgen






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Re: [Qgis-user] Ubuntu updating instructions

[Micha Silver]

-- Original Message -- Subject: Re: [Qgis-user] Ubuntu updating 
instructions Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2016 16:23:53 +0200 To: Qgis-user From: 
Jürgen E. Fischer

Hi Randal,

On Tue, 13. Sep 2016 at 00:21:21 -0400, Randal Hale wrote:

It's a little bit confusing. There are like three repositories:
stable, unstable, and testing. Testing you don't want (unless you
want to test packages). Typically stable is a bit older. Unstable is
current. Which doesn't really make sense - but that's the way it is.

Not like it matters much in this case.

We have packages in qgis.org/debian/ against the plain versions of the
distributions (debian and **ubuntu**) and in qgis/ubuntugis/ packages against
newer dependencies from - and only from - ubuntugis-unstable.

Looks like it's hard for people to accept that there are also ubuntu packages
in a directory called debian and that probably makes them jump on the other
because it has ubuntu in it's name.


I don't think the confusion is between Debian and Ubuntu. Most Ubuntu 
users know that their OS is Debian-based.
The problem lies in that there are three different repos which offer 
QGIS: the base ubuntu packages, qgis.org and the ppa. And the last two 
are split into separate stable, unstable, and testing where "unstable" 
(in keeping with the Ubuntu policy) is actually the current stable package.





Under my /etc/apt/sources.list.d directory I made a qgis.list file
and put the following in there:

deb http://qgis.org/debian xenial main
deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntugis/ubuntugis-unstable/ubuntu xenial main

Why?  That are the packages not based on ubuntugis with the dependencies from
ubuntugis.


Jürgen



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Re: [Qgis-user] Ubuntu updating instructions

[Randal Hale]

I don't think it's necessarily ignorance - the word unstable means "no 
stable; not firm or firmly fixed; unsteady" [1]. At my old place of 
employment software that was in any way related to the work "unstable" 
would never get installed or tested.


UbuntuGIS-unstable isn't unstable. BUT - it has that word associated 
with it. It is confusing for users. If we told the windows users to grab 
their installation files from a directory labeled *unstable* there would 
be much unhappiness.


[1] http://www.dictionary.com/browse/unstable



On 09/13/2016 10:51 AM, Blumentrath, Stefan wrote:


And if I may add:

Even if the users are aware of the fact that ubuntugis-unstable 
contains the current releases, it can be hard to impossible to 
convince a GIS-ignorant system administrator that it is OK to install 
“unstable” packages.


But this issue is not a QGIS issue I guess...

*From:*Qgis-user [mailto:qgis-user-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] *On Behalf 
Of *Randal Hale

*Sent:* 13. september 2016 16:45
*To:* qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org
*Subject:* Re: [Qgis-user] Ubuntu updating instructions

On 09/13/2016 10:23 AM, Jürgen E. Fischer wrote:

Hi Randal,

On Tue, 13. Sep 2016 at 00:21:21 -0400, Randal Hale wrote:

It's a little bit confusing. There are like three repositories:

stable, unstable, and testing. Testing you don't want (unless you

want to test packages). Typically stable is a bit older. Unstable is

current. Which doesn't really make sense - but that's the way it is.

Not like it matters much in this case.

We have packages in qgis.org/debian/ against the plain versions of the

distributions (debian and **ubuntu**) and in qgis/ubuntugis/ packages 
against

newer dependencies from - and only from - ubuntugis-unstable.

Looks like it's hard for people to accept that there are also ubuntu 
packages

in a directory called debian and that probably makes them jump on the other

because it has ubuntu in it's name.

I was thinking about it last night (and I was up way to late) and it 
is a bit confusing for the casual user. They've installed Ubuntu (or 
mint/debian/xubuntu/etc) and they may not understand ubuntu is based 
off debian. So like you said - they see debian but want to use Ubuntu. 
They go to UbuntuGIS and they see the repositories for UbuntuGIS and 
the choice is unstable (and no one likes unstable software) and stable 
(which doesn't contain the newest software). So you end up going "Use 
Unstable because it's stable and current".


Under my /etc/apt/sources.list.d directory I made a qgis.list file

and put the following in there:

debhttp://qgis.org/debian  xenial main

debhttp://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntugis/ubuntugis-unstable/ubuntu  xenial 
main

Why?  That are the packages not based on ubuntugis with the dependencies 
from

ubuntugis.

Do I have this wrong? I thought I had the repositories for the install 
correct based off the directions on qgis.org. Which I could completely 
have it wrong. With the above repos I'm getting QGIS 2.16.x and GDAL 
2.1.x.


Jürgen




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North River Geographic Systems, Inc
http://www.northrivergeographic.com
423.653.3611rjh...@northrivergeographic.com 
<mailto:rjh...@northrivergeographic.com>
twitter:rjhale


--
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North River Geographic Systems, Inc
http://www.northrivergeographic.com
423.653.3611 rjh...@northrivergeographic.com
twitter:rjhale

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Re: [Qgis-user] Ubuntu updating instructions

[Randal Hale]

On 09/13/2016 10:23 AM, Jürgen E. Fischer wrote:

Hi Randal,

On Tue, 13. Sep 2016 at 00:21:21 -0400, Randal Hale wrote:

It's a little bit confusing. There are like three repositories:
stable, unstable, and testing. Testing you don't want (unless you
want to test packages). Typically stable is a bit older. Unstable is
current. Which doesn't really make sense - but that's the way it is.

Not like it matters much in this case.

We have packages in qgis.org/debian/ against the plain versions of the
distributions (debian and **ubuntu**) and in qgis/ubuntugis/ packages against
newer dependencies from - and only from - ubuntugis-unstable.

Looks like it's hard for people to accept that there are also ubuntu packages
in a directory called debian and that probably makes them jump on the other
because it has ubuntu in it's name.
I was thinking about it last night (and I was up way to late) and it is 
a bit confusing for the casual user. They've installed Ubuntu (or 
mint/debian/xubuntu/etc) and they may not understand ubuntu is based off 
debian. So like you said - they see debian but want to use Ubuntu. They 
go to UbuntuGIS and they see the repositories for UbuntuGIS and the 
choice is unstable (and no one likes unstable software) and stable 
(which doesn't contain the newest software). So you end up going "Use 
Unstable because it's stable and current".




Under my /etc/apt/sources.list.d directory I made a qgis.list file
and put the following in there:

deb http://qgis.org/debian xenial main
deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntugis/ubuntugis-unstable/ubuntu xenial main

Why?  That are the packages not based on ubuntugis with the dependencies from
ubuntugis.
Do I have this wrong? I thought I had the repositories for the install 
correct based off the directions on qgis.org. Which I could completely 
have it wrong. With the above repos I'm getting QGIS 2.16.x and GDAL 2.1.x.


Jürgen



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Re: [Qgis-user] Ubuntu updating instructions

[Jürgen E . Fischer]

Hi Randal,

On Tue, 13. Sep 2016 at 00:21:21 -0400, Randal Hale wrote:
> It's a little bit confusing. There are like three repositories:
> stable, unstable, and testing. Testing you don't want (unless you
> want to test packages). Typically stable is a bit older. Unstable is
> current. Which doesn't really make sense - but that's the way it is.

Not like it matters much in this case.

We have packages in qgis.org/debian/ against the plain versions of the
distributions (debian and **ubuntu**) and in qgis/ubuntugis/ packages against
newer dependencies from - and only from - ubuntugis-unstable.

Looks like it's hard for people to accept that there are also ubuntu packages
in a directory called debian and that probably makes them jump on the other
because it has ubuntu in it's name.


> Under my /etc/apt/sources.list.d directory I made a qgis.list file
> and put the following in there:
> 
> deb http://qgis.org/debian xenial main
> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntugis/ubuntugis-unstable/ubuntu xenial main

Why?  That are the packages not based on ubuntugis with the dependencies from
ubuntugis.


Jürgen

-- 
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Dipl.-Inf. (FH) Rheinstraße 13  Fax. +49-4931-918175-50
Software Engineer   D-26506 Norden http://www.norbit.de
QGIS release manager (PSC)  GermanyIRC: jef on FreeNode 



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Re: [Qgis-user] Ubuntu updating instructions

[Jürgen E . Fischer]

Hi Dave,

On Tue, 13. Sep 2016 at 13:08:33 +1000, Dave Kimble wrote:
> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntugis/ubuntugis-unstable/ubuntu xenial main
> I don't want an unstable package!,

Then don't use that.  That's the option if you want more uptodate dependencies
from ubuntugis.  If that's not the case go with the http://qgis.org/debian
repository.


Jürgen

-- 
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Dipl.-Inf. (FH) Rheinstraße 13  Fax. +49-4931-918175-50
Software Engineer   D-26506 Norden http://www.norbit.de
QGIS release manager (PSC)  GermanyIRC: jef on FreeNode 



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Re: [Qgis-user] Ubuntu updating instructions

[Randal Hale]

Hey Dave!

It's a little bit confusing. There are like three repositories: stable, 
unstable, and testing. Testing you don't want (unless you want to test 
packages). Typically stable is a bit older. Unstable is current. Which 
doesn't really make sense - but that's the way it is.


Under my /etc/apt/sources.list.d directory I made a qgis.list file and 
put the following in there:


deb http://qgis.org/debian xenial main
deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntugis/ubuntugis-unstable/ubuntu xenial main


That gets QGIS 2.16.2 and GDAL 2.x.

It would "sound" nicer if it was testing stable and "fresh" (which is 
how libreoffice does it) - but unstable is actually quite stable for 16.04.



Randy



On 09/12/2016 11:59 PM, Nyall Dawson wrote:

On 13 September 2016 at 13:08, Dave Kimble  wrote:

I have Ubuntu 16.04.1 and QGIS 2.8.6 .
Help > Check Version > says there is v2.16.2 ,
but the instructions at
http://qgis.org/en/site/forusers/alldownloads.html#debian-ubuntu
for how to do it are totally baffling.

Hi Dave!

If you're not comfortable with these instructions, I'd probably
suggest sticking with the version provided by your distribution and
wait till QGIS is updated in the repos (ie, with Ubuntu 16.10).

Nyall


I've never had to edit /etc/apt/sources.list before,
and I don't like the look of the example:
debhttp://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntugis/ubuntugis-unstable/ubuntu  xenial main
I don't want an unstable package!,
I've never had to remove a package before installing a more recent version,
do you expect me to remove a working package and replace with one from an
unstable repository?

Normally I would expect to add-apt-repository and update.
When I do that I get lots of ign: lines then
Reading package lists... Done
W: The repository 'http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntugis/ppa/ubuntu  xenial
Release' does not have a Release file.
N: Data from such a repository can't be authenticated and is therefore
potentially dangerous to use.
N: See apt-secure(8) manpage for repository creation and user configuration
details.
E: Failed to fetch
http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntugis/ppa/ubuntu/dists/xenial/main/binary-amd64/Packages
404  Not Found
E: Some index files failed to download. They have been ignored, or old ones
used instead.
$

-http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntugis/ppa/ubuntu/dists/  doesn't have a
/xenial/ folder

Obviously I need some help here, but it really shouldn't be necessary.

Dave





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Re: [Qgis-user] Ubuntu updating instructions

[Nyall Dawson]

On 13 September 2016 at 13:08, Dave Kimble  wrote:
> I have Ubuntu 16.04.1 and QGIS 2.8.6 .
> Help > Check Version > says there is v2.16.2 ,
> but the instructions at
> http://qgis.org/en/site/forusers/alldownloads.html#debian-ubuntu
> for how to do it are totally baffling.

Hi Dave!

If you're not comfortable with these instructions, I'd probably
suggest sticking with the version provided by your distribution and
wait till QGIS is updated in the repos (ie, with Ubuntu 16.10).

Nyall

>
> I've never had to edit /etc/apt/sources.list before,
> and I don't like the look of the example:
> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntugis/ubuntugis-unstable/ubuntu xenial main
> I don't want an unstable package!,
> I've never had to remove a package before installing a more recent version,
> do you expect me to remove a working package and replace with one from an
> unstable repository?
>
> Normally I would expect to add-apt-repository and update.
> When I do that I get lots of ign: lines then
> Reading package lists... Done
> W: The repository 'http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntugis/ppa/ubuntu xenial
> Release' does not have a Release file.
> N: Data from such a repository can't be authenticated and is therefore
> potentially dangerous to use.
> N: See apt-secure(8) manpage for repository creation and user configuration
> details.
> E: Failed to fetch
> http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntugis/ppa/ubuntu/dists/xenial/main/binary-amd64/Packages
> 404  Not Found
> E: Some index files failed to download. They have been ignored, or old ones
> used instead.
> $
>
> - http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntugis/ppa/ubuntu/dists/ doesn't have a
> /xenial/ folder
>
> Obviously I need some help here, but it really shouldn't be necessary.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
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