[RBW] Re: Trouble loading Rivbike.com

[Manuel Acosta]

One of my favorite things about the Rivendell website are the
pictures. Every picture on the site always reminds me that I should be
riding my bike. I say hell with fast loading. Some things are best
when slowed down.

On Jan 26, 1:51 pm, Dave Rivbike  wrote:
> Yes, the slideshow. It makes the homepage heavier than it has to be.
> Yet it's one of the most loved features of our site, has been for
> years.
> The images are downsized to a reasonable level, but you still have to
> load them any time a new image is added or your cache is cleared.
> For site speed, I'd love to have just one image there, the most recent
> campout photo, but the slideshow is by far one of most popular
> features on the site, so I'm kinda stuck there.
>
> I think if I removed that, I'd get more heat than if I leave it.
>
> One compromise  is to simply have the most recent photo there on the
> homepage with the featured products, and when you click on that image,
> you redirect to the whole slideshow, or even better linked out to an
> archive of ALL the previous homepage photos we've used in the past.
> That way the site would load faster for everyone, and those that want
> to watch pictures and simply click out to another page and can wait
> for that to load.
> Downside is you would get the same image each visit (till we change it
> for a new one) instead of the random choice from the bunch.
>
> Interested what y'all have to say about this?
> I lean towards faster faster faster, but it might be a hard sell since
> most folks seem to like it.
>
> -Dave@riv
>
> On Jan 26, 6:48 am, tdusky  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > The new site is complex and loads slowly, it always has, I am on a
> > fast mac with high speed internet.
> > It sometimes hangs and I need to refresh to get it to load.
> > That's the price of a cool looking site?
> > Shouldn't be
>
> > Tom Duksy
> > Huntington Woods MI
>
> > On Jan 26, 2:24 am, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
> > > The home page isn't loading well on both computers (and a smartphone) I've
> > > used today. I can still click on the categories, but there's no home page
> > > pic or featured products. Is anyone else experiencing this?

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Re: [RBW] Re: Build kits!

[James Warren]

+1

That 36 is a great gear. Makes me more inclined to ride instead of drive.

 
On Jan 26, 2012, at 9:20 PM, dougP wrote:

> John:
> 
> Wonderful concept but one bit of whining about the 9 speed cassette:
> 
> 11-32 instead of the 12-36?
> 
> I hate to come on like I'm grading papers but IMHO 11t cogs are
> useless but a 36t has real value.  Sometimes its the little stuff
> that's the difference between good & great.
> 
> dougP
> 
> On Jan 26, 12:08 pm, John Bennett  wrote:
>> Thanks for noticing, Leslie. These are the components that work so
>> well together on our frames (and we recommend them time and time
>> again), so we thought we would make it easier for everyone by offering
>> them as kits. We knocked a little of the collective price to make it
>> more attractive, too.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> John at RBW
>> 
>> On Jan 26, 9:48 am, Leslie  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Check it out!
>> 
>>> http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/build-03.htm- Hide quoted text -
>> 
>> - Show quoted text -
> 
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James Warren
jimcwar...@earthlink.net

- Remember, my friends, it is better to feel fast than to be fast.



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[RBW] Re: Build kits!

[dougP]

John:

Wonderful concept but one bit of whining about the 9 speed cassette:

11-32 instead of the 12-36?

I hate to come on like I'm grading papers but IMHO 11t cogs are
useless but a 36t has real value.  Sometimes its the little stuff
that's the difference between good & great.

dougP

On Jan 26, 12:08 pm, John Bennett  wrote:
> Thanks for noticing, Leslie. These are the components that work so
> well together on our frames (and we recommend them time and time
> again), so we thought we would make it easier for everyone by offering
> them as kits. We knocked a little of the collective price to make it
> more attractive, too.
>
> Cheers,
>
> John at RBW
>
> On Jan 26, 9:48 am, Leslie  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Check it out!
>
> >http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/build-03.htm- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Ergon pedals?

[dougP]

Kent Peterson has had them since quite early, and IIRC was going to
post about them after he'd had some time on them.  His climate & use
will give them the stress test, so it shouldn't be long before we know
how they do in really wet winter conditions.  If they survive a year
in the Pacific Northwest, they should be good to go for at least 5X
that long in a less demanding climate.  Not sure if constant rain or
snow is harder on stuff like that.  At least you can brush off snow.

dougP

On Jan 25, 9:27 pm, Eric  wrote:
> I put a set of these on my Long Haul Trucker and like them very much.
> I cannot stand dedicated biking shoes and pedals, and I had too much
> overlap with the front fender when using toe clips and touring
> pedals.
>
> I tried powergrips, free touring pedals, and almost pulled the trigger
> on some Gripkings before buying the Ergons.  I haven't spent an entire
> season on them yet but so far so good!
>
> On Jan 24, 8:31 am, Steve Schermerhorn 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Anyone have any experience with 
> > these?http://www.ergon-bike.com/us/en/product/pc2
>
> > What did you think?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Extreme Exercize

[dougP]

The group I ride with is mostly north of 60 in age.  Oddly enough
(given the gray hair or lack of of hair) we get asked "So what are you
guys training for?".  Our now-stock anwer is "Life".  Works every
time, and has the added advantage of being true.

To properly frame that, imagine a half dozen geezers sitting around a
table having coffee, with a mixed bag of touring bikes (Atlantis, REI
Safari, etc., plus one custom Lighthouse & an ancient MTB) in the
background.  No CF; some lycra, some cargo shorts, some sandals.

As one of (the late) Richard Pryor's characters said, "You don't get
old by being dumb."

dougP

On Jan 26, 10:54 am, Anne Paulson  wrote:
> I agree. I love to ride my bike, and I like long rides. When I'm out
> riding, sometimes someone asks whether I'm training for something.
> "Training for something?" I say. "No. This is the thing, riding my
> bike."
>
> On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Esteban  wrote:
>
> > But one of the reasons I enjoy it is that I never train for
> > randonneuring.  "Training" is a great way to ruin something fun. If I
> > can ride a century now and then, I can do a 200K.  If I can do a 200K,
> > then a 300K and 400K are totally possible (that's my limit so far).
> > Its mostly about hanging on.
>
> --
> -- Anne Paulson
>
> My hovercraft is full of eels

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[RBW] Re: Extreme Exercize

[JL]

I don't have anything to add one way or the other to the discussion
but I would like to point out that 40 people is not a statistically
significant sample size.  I understand the OP was using the link to
connect back to a topic previously discussed.  I think it is important
to remember that just because one has read it doesn't make it
"true".

I think it is great that a group cyclists of are discussing ways to
have a healthy life and questioning the idea that more always better.

JL

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RE: [RBW] Re: Riv Rally East 2012

[Sean Whelan]

Side Note:
We (group of 5 cyclists) stayed in the Paddler's Lane guest house in 2006. It 
was great. Highly Recommended.

Thanks,
Sean


--- On Thu, 1/26/12, Allingham II, Thomas J  
wrote:

From: Allingham II, Thomas J 
Subject: RE: [RBW] Re: Riv Rally East 2012
To: "'rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com'" 
Cc: "'MontclairBobbyB'" 
Date: Thursday, January 26, 2012, 10:27 AM



 
 

- As soon as possible, a verbal commitment to 
attend (and I may request a deposit for the shuttle and lodging (if I book the 
Paddlers Guest House).  Sam Allingham and Tom Allingham are in; 
one additional rider is a distinct possibility.
- A lodging preference, either:  A. I would 
like to stay with the masses in the Paddlers Lane Guest House (if avail), and 
although I am guaranteed a bed, it may not be a queen bed, we'll draw 
straws...  or B. I would like to make my own lodging arrangements.  
Option A preferable for 
us.

- A starting point; Cumberland, MD (62 miles to Confluence on Day 1, 
approx the first 25 miles are gradual uphill) vs Frostburg, MD  
We'd prefer Cumberland.
(47 miles to Confluence on 
Day 1, approx the first 10 miles are gradual uphill).  And for those 
preferring Frostburg, do you need to A. Park in Frostburg or B. Park in 
Cumberland and ride to Frostburg ahead of the Rally.

- A (Yes/No) vote on a Fallingwater tour - Assuming we shuttle via bus, and 
take a Noon tour... Figure 1-2 hours total, and will cost approx $20 per 
person.  We'd love to do the Fallingwater side 
trip

-Original Message-
From: 
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Montclair BobbyB
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 6:58 
PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch
Subject: [RBW] Re: Riv Rally East 
2012

Shuttle Update:  Good news... Wilderness Voyageurs (WV) 
provided me with what I consider a very reasonable rate for 2 vans (to shuttle 
approx 25 passengers plus bikes and gear).  They have a large rack on top 
of one van, and a box trailer for the balance of the bikes and gear.  The 
price quote is $415, which translates to roughly $17 per person (if we have 
25), 
or $28 per person (if we have 15), etc... you get the idea.  We pay for the 
vans and trailer, regardless of the number of people.  Either way I think 
that's a very reasonable price (compared to other quotes for large buses).  
I would like to propose leaving our cars in Cumberland (or optionally 
Frostburg) 
and getting shuttled back on Sunday (I will explain why in a moment).

WV 
is located in Ohiopyle. PA just off the trail.  As we pass through Ohiopyle 
on Sunday (Apr 22), we CAN opt to use WV to shuttle us up to Fallingwater, IF 
folks would like to take a tour.  The cost would be
$25 per van (from WV 
HQ), which adds only $2 per person.  I have sent in an inquiry to the 
Fallingwater people requesting a group tour rate (normally $22 
individually).  We'll see if they can accommodate a group of 25 for the 
Noon time slot; THEN it's up to us to decide whether we'd like to include this 
tour or not.  Another option would be to have a nice, relaxing lunch in 
Ohiopyle.  I'd like your thoughts, please.

Next up will be a 
decision on lodging and shuttle options.  The WV folks made a pretty good 
case for leaving our cars in Cumberland MD, citing better parking options, and 
actually by leaving cars in Cumberland, another advantage would be to allow 
late 
arrivals on Friday night (or even Saturday morning), by not having to 
pre-shuttle at a predetermined time.  Moreover, we can check in with WV at 
Ohiopyle on Sunday, and provide a pretty accurate time estimate for when we'll 
need pickup in Connellsville, which is 17 miles down river.  The 
disadvantage to this is that it tacks on additional time and distance for our 
friends coming from the North.  But Sunday will be a shorter day, and I'd 
anticipate arriving in Connellsville around 3, putting us back in Cumberland by 
around 5 PM.

For those who would prefer to start in Frostburg (which is 
16 miles up trail from Cumberland), this would give you a later start on Sat AM 
(while you wait for the rally to catch up) and it would spare you 16 miles of 
additional climbing (albeit at a gradual 1% grade or less).
I'm sure we can 
convince the WV crew to drop people in Frostburg on the way back into 
Cumberland 
on Sunday, but they may tack on a small surcharge.  Another option for 
those wishing to start from Frostburg on Saturday would be to arrive in 
Cumberland during the day on Friday, leaving your car in Cumberland, then 
riding 
16 miles to Frostburg "up the climb" to a hotel in Frostburg... then you can 
"sleep in" on Sat while the rest of us huff and puff our way up to meet 
you.

Finally, for lodging options in Confluence, I would strongly 
recommend reserving the Paddlers Lane Retreat guest house, which can 
accommodate 
at least a dozen, and costs about $425 a night (which is a bargain if we fill 
it).  Here's a link to their site - http://www.paddlerslane.com/id

[RBW] Re: Extreme Exercize

[Doug]

Can't really assess Mercola's claims concerning exercise physiology
since it's not my field, but I encourage y'all to take his articles
with a grain of salt. Mercola is well known in scientific circles as a
hack, marketer and opportunist who likes to play fast and loose with
the facts. Mercola's rants against the use of fluoride in dentistry
relegate him to the lunatic fringe on that subject. He enjoys
virtually zero credibility in the scientific community.

On Jan 25, 7:29 pm, Michael Hechmer  wrote:
> A while back the Riv Reader published an article challenging the benefits
> of ultra endurance events.  With that in mind, I offer this research report:
>
> http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness/archive/2012/01/25/cardio-ma...
>
> I have to admit, I have long since gotten over any urge to do anything that
> smacks of "training", so perhaps this appeals to my preconceived desires.
>
> blessings,
> michael

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[RBW] Re: 57cm Raleigh International, Brooks Grips and Extras for sale

[Peter M]

Grips have been sold. Thanks

On Jan 23, 11:57 am, Peter M  wrote:
> So my wife has finally worn me down and convinced me to sell one of my
> many projects to fund a new purchase. For grabs is a 57cm 
> Raleighinternational, reynolds 531, just repainted locally in Champagne Gold
> Metallic, period decals from velocals buried in the clear coat. Chrome
> looks good, not perfect though but no pitting or rusting or anything
> like that. Bike has one small nick where too long crankbolt nipped it
> before I realized what was wrong. Standard english BB. Measurements-
> seat tube 57cm c-c, top tube 56cm c-c. Rear triangle was spread
> locally (at a reputable bike shop, not by me) to 132.5 to acomodate
> modern wheels. Dropouts were re-aligned with the appropriate park
> tool.  Bike will take 38mm ties with no fenders and 28s with 43mm
> honjos. Will include the honjos and the long reach gran compe brakes
> in the sale. Bike was setup for 700c with those brakes and worked
> great. Repaint was $250 and that is what I am looking to sell for
> since I know that I will never get back what I put into it. Bike rides
> really nice but max weight on it should be no more than about 200lbs
> so with my fat ass will  never work for he sport tourer I was looking
> to build. I have the matching campagnolo BB and 172.5 mm Strada
> crankset (52 & 45 rings) along with the campagnolo pedals that came
> with bicycle before I restored it that I can include at a negotiable
> price. All have been cleaned, pedals and headset repacked with fresh
> park grease. Can also sell those seperaratly if the buyer of the frame
> doesnt want them. Again looking for $250 plus 50 for shipping, if your
> cost is less I will refund but I will eat anything over 50, you can
> also come pick it up locally.  Also have brooks grips for sale, honey,
> removed 2 rings to make them a bit smaller, already treated with
> proofide. These will NOT take bar ends, something I wish I knew when I
> bought them, haha, was thinking 40 bucks shipped. Link to flikr page
> with pics of all the itemshttp://www.flickr.com/photos/67889635@N06/?saved=1
> , and link to ebay page where I had the whole bike for sale so you can
> see it built up  
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230670744012&ssPag...
> . Email me with any questions/reasonable offers, These parts sit in my
> living room so I get to hear the complaints all the time and need to
> move them. Thanks.

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[RBW] Re: Every Day Carry - Here's Mine, What's Yours?

[Roger]

I'm surprised by the similarities of my kit with Amit's:

In my old Candy Bar Bag:

Pump
Hanky/Tool Roll with:
- Spoke Wrench
- Multi tool
- Tire tools
- Leatherman Micra
- Patch kit with Presta/Schrader adaptors & 4mm, 5mm and 3/16" Allen
Wrenches
Coin Purse
Key Chain with locking hub key
Tissues with
- mini tube of sun-block
- lip balm
4.5x5.5 Notepad (homemade)
Wallet with:
- Kaweco fountain pen w/Noodler's Blue Heron ink
- Sodbuster Jr. pocket knife
iPhone
Spare Innertube (not shown)

Image at:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/56856126@N02/6767278655/in/photostream

Each time I empty out the bag I try to remove unused items. These are
the ones that justify themselves over time. Maybe the Micra can go...

The wallet was from Etsy and meant to hold a phone, but I like it's
pocket for a pen and knife. I've found it's important to carry a
friendly looking knife so people assume you want to pare an apple or
open a box, not brandish a weapon. That Sodbuster is a great little
knife: it's one blade is sturdy, it fits my hand well, and it has even
become my favorite paring knife in the house. Kaweco pens are great
little pens as well.

Amit Singh wrote:
> I'm reposting this with hopes of greater response because it's a cool
> and interesting topic.
>
> This subject of 'every day carry' is one of which I've been slightly
> obsessed.
>
> Here is a link to an image of my EDC, and a list:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/amisingh/6760998841/
>
> - Bandana (serves as handkerchief)
> - Opinel No. 6 knife
> - Lip Ivo
> - iPhone 4 carried in Col. Littleton No. 50 Phone Wallet
> - Keys carried on ML Brown Braided Keychain
> - Shure E4 Earbuds
> - Lamy Fountain Pen
> - Moleskin Notebook (set up as GSD)
> - Swatch GB743
> - Canon S100 Camera
> - Surefire G2x Tactical Flashlight
>
> I like how all this stuff is compact so it fits well inside of a small
> trunk sack.  When I'm not on the bike it's generally carried in a
> pocket on my briefcase, and when that doesn't happen I can carry it
> all on my person in various pockets, although I'm tempted to start
> carrying a man-bag or a "m-urse".
>
> This is a 'heavy load', but it's everything which I need to flip
> between work and adventure.  Works for me.
>
> I'd be interested in seeing your EDC's.
>
> http://everyday-carry.com/ is a neat website that shows lots of
> carries.  There are a few others which are similar.

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[RBW] Re: Who's that on the cover of Bicycle Times?

[Frank Brose]

Yup. That's him.

On Jan 26, 6:05 pm, Montclair BobbyB 
wrote:
> For my money I say it's none other than Steve Palincsar...
>
> You be the judge:
>
> Steve the live action figure:http://tinyurl.com/72durs9
> Steve the animated action figure?:http://tinyurl.com/6qsr6ym
>
> (Sorry Steve, I couldn't resist).
>
> Peace,
> Bobby

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[RBW] Re: 57cm Raleigh International, Brooks Grips and Extras for sale

[Peter M]

Sorry, forgot to add its a 1971 International with the awesome rapid
taper chain stays that have no identations or dimpling in them.

On Jan 23, 11:57 am, Peter M  wrote:
> So my wife has finally worn me down and convinced me to sell one of my
> many projects to fund a new purchase. For grabs is a 57cm 
> Raleighinternational, reynolds 531, just repainted locally in Champagne Gold
> Metallic, period decals from velocals buried in the clear coat. Chrome
> looks good, not perfect though but no pitting or rusting or anything
> like that. Bike has one small nick where too long crankbolt nipped it
> before I realized what was wrong. Standard english BB. Measurements-
> seat tube 57cm c-c, top tube 56cm c-c. Rear triangle was spread
> locally (at a reputable bike shop, not by me) to 132.5 to acomodate
> modern wheels. Dropouts were re-aligned with the appropriate park
> tool.  Bike will take 38mm ties with no fenders and 28s with 43mm
> honjos. Will include the honjos and the long reach gran compe brakes
> in the sale. Bike was setup for 700c with those brakes and worked
> great. Repaint was $250 and that is what I am looking to sell for
> since I know that I will never get back what I put into it. Bike rides
> really nice but max weight on it should be no more than about 200lbs
> so with my fat ass will  never work for he sport tourer I was looking
> to build. I have the matching campagnolo BB and 172.5 mm Strada
> crankset (52 & 45 rings) along with the campagnolo pedals that came
> with bicycle before I restored it that I can include at a negotiable
> price. All have been cleaned, pedals and headset repacked with fresh
> park grease. Can also sell those seperaratly if the buyer of the frame
> doesnt want them. Again looking for $250 plus 50 for shipping, if your
> cost is less I will refund but I will eat anything over 50, you can
> also come pick it up locally.  Also have brooks grips for sale, honey,
> removed 2 rings to make them a bit smaller, already treated with
> proofide. These will NOT take bar ends, something I wish I knew when I
> bought them, haha, was thinking 40 bucks shipped. Link to flikr page
> with pics of all the itemshttp://www.flickr.com/photos/67889635@N06/?saved=1
> , and link to ebay page where I had the whole bike for sale so you can
> see it built up  
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230670744012&ssPag...
> . Email me with any questions/reasonable offers, These parts sit in my
> living room so I get to hear the complaints all the time and need to
> move them. Thanks.

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[RBW] Re: FS: Atlantis 58cm

[John G.]

Hi C.J.

Yes that would be John's former frame!

John

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[RBW] Re: Ergon pedals?

[Eric]

I put a set of these on my Long Haul Trucker and like them very much.
I cannot stand dedicated biking shoes and pedals, and I had too much
overlap with the front fender when using toe clips and touring
pedals.

I tried powergrips, free touring pedals, and almost pulled the trigger
on some Gripkings before buying the Ergons.  I haven't spent an entire
season on them yet but so far so good!



On Jan 24, 8:31 am, Steve Schermerhorn 
wrote:
> Anyone have any experience with 
> these?http://www.ergon-bike.com/us/en/product/pc2
>
> What did you think?

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[RBW] Re: Trouble loading Rivbike.com

[Dave Rivbike]

Yes, the slideshow. It makes the homepage heavier than it has to be.
Yet it's one of the most loved features of our site, has been for
years.
The images are downsized to a reasonable level, but you still have to
load them any time a new image is added or your cache is cleared.
For site speed, I'd love to have just one image there, the most recent
campout photo, but the slideshow is by far one of most popular
features on the site, so I'm kinda stuck there.

I think if I removed that, I'd get more heat than if I leave it.

One compromise  is to simply have the most recent photo there on the
homepage with the featured products, and when you click on that image,
you redirect to the whole slideshow, or even better linked out to an
archive of ALL the previous homepage photos we've used in the past.
That way the site would load faster for everyone, and those that want
to watch pictures and simply click out to another page and can wait
for that to load.
Downside is you would get the same image each visit (till we change it
for a new one) instead of the random choice from the bunch.

Interested what y'all have to say about this?
I lean towards faster faster faster, but it might be a hard sell since
most folks seem to like it.

-Dave@riv

On Jan 26, 6:48 am, tdusky  wrote:
> The new site is complex and loads slowly, it always has, I am on a
> fast mac with high speed internet.
> It sometimes hangs and I need to refresh to get it to load.
> That's the price of a cool looking site?
> Shouldn't be
>
> Tom Duksy
> Huntington Woods MI
>
> On Jan 26, 2:24 am, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > The home page isn't loading well on both computers (and a smartphone) I've
> > used today. I can still click on the categories, but there's no home page
> > pic or featured products. Is anyone else experiencing this?

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[RBW] Free Tubes 700x28/32/35 normal weight presta valved.

[murphyjrfk]

i have a handful of tubes, four or five i think, all kenda  i believe,
presta valved. 700x28-35 range. i don't have a bike w 700c wheels any
more and i don't plan on having one for a while, if ever, i prefer
26". anyways they sit there and sit there and i don't want them to go
to waste. i know goatheads are a problem for a lot of you out west and
why not just pass them along. just pay $5.15 flat rate shipping and
they are yours.

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[RBW] Re: Extreme Exercize

[Chris Lampe]

I recently got interested in Randonneuring as a very long-term riding
goal and during my research I found a story a guy wrote about an event
that included himself, Jan Heine and another guy.  Jan ended the trip
fine, the other guy had to be carried home and the author of the story
ended up in the hospital.  I hope that situation is an anomaly in the
sport but it certainly made me lose interest.

My preferred ride tends to be an interval workout.  I tend to ride
hard, ride easy to recover, ride hard, ride easy to recover, etc..,
etc   The upper end of the timing is a bit less than an hour.  I
once bought a road bike and tried longer distance at a steady pace but
didn't much care for it.  I think what I'm doing is probably more
healthy and is certainly more fun for me.



On Jan 25, 8:06 pm, robert zeidler  wrote:
> I quit racing in '92-having to pay to wait around all day just sucked. But
> I like "training ", I like competing against self in a strictly selfish
> way. I do send my times to people, but only because they've asked me to.
>
> I've been shocked at how many elite triathletes end up with pacemakers and
> assorted other ailments related to the heart. But it takes really sick
> efforts to make one, well, really sick.
>
> In between we have Randonneuring. Which is nothing more than racing when
> you come down to it. I love Jan Heine, and am inspired by his travels. But
> if/when I ever ride across France, it ain't gonna be at night. If I climb
> the Tourmalet, it's gonna be in bright sunshine, not just a check on a list
> as part of some private-parts measurement story for my friends.
>
> Cyclotouring to me, and as it applies to this group, seems to strike the
> right balance. Travel, good health, good scenery, good food, hopefully
> shared with like-minded good people.
>
> I 'm not against the extremes, but as a way of lifeI don't get it. I
> have an ongoing dialogue with Jill Homer on this very topic.
>
> Sorry to ramble, but I think about it quite a bit.
>
> RGZ
>
> On Wednesday, January 25, 2012, Grant Petersen  wrote:
> > Super neat and thanks, Michael. I love this stuff...as you've supposed.
>
> I'll finish reading it tonite. Thank you, really, for sending..
>
> > On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 5:29 PM, Michael Hechmer 
> wrote:
>
> >> A while back the Riv Reader published an article challenging the
>
> benefits of ultra endurance events.  With that in mind, I offer this
> research report:
>
> http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness/archive/2012/01/25/cardio-ma...
>
> >> I have to admit, I have long since gotten over any urge to do anything
>
> that smacks of "training", so perhaps this appeals to my preconceived
> desires.>> blessings,
> >> michael
>
> > --
> > Grant
> > Rivendell Bicycle Works
> >www.rivbike.com
> > 925 933 7304
>
> > --
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>
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.> To post to this group, send email to 
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> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>
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> group at
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>
>
>
> - Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Is the San Marcos a true Rivendell?

[Dick Denning]

Pat: 
 
I said a 58cm San Marco, but I meant 59.  My mistake, sorry. 
 
Dick Denning 

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[RBW] Re: Every Day Carry - Here's Mine, What's Yours?

[Smitty-A-Go-Go]

I'm a stay-home dad so up until about a year ago my EDC was a large diaper 
bag full of supplies to keep my toddler happy. Once he learned to use the 
toilet I was able to shed a bunch of the kid stuff from my EDC. At that 
time I bought one of the Riv Swiss Medic bags.  It's an excellent size to 
carry the daily essentials and have enough room for pre-school-age-kid 
stuff. 

What I carry in the Riv bag 
here. 
Depending on the outing there's often a snack or toy in there too.  

I also keep some bikey stuff on the bikes... 
here. 
Some variation of this stuff gets shuffled between a Bakfiets, a Surly Big 
Dummy, and an A.H.H.


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[RBW] Re: Is the San Marcos a true Rivendell?

[Dick Denning]

Pat: 
 
I'll add some comments regarding the San Marcos since I just finished 
building one (my first San Marcos)here in my shop within the last couple of 
days.  A 54cm in particular.  It's winter here in Ohio so I haven't had a 
chance to take one out for a test ride, but from the way it looks I expect 
it will ride exactly like every other Rivendell: beautifully balanced, 
lively, all-day comfortable.  In fact, in terms of tire clearance and the 
way it looks it, it looks like a Romulus or a Rambouillet, but with the 
expanded frame geometry of a Sam Hillborne.
I find the Romulus or Rambouillet to be a bit more toss-able/touch more 
lively than the Sam Hillborne and I would expect the Sam Marcos would be 
more like the Rom/Ramb, but that's just guessing at this point.
 
I have the one here in the shop built with 700 x 32 black Pasela's with 
P-45 silver SKS fenders, and like the Romulus or Rambouilet it all fits 
together just great.  And like the Romulus and Rambouillet I expect you can 
squeeze Jack Brown Greens into the frame with fenders - though some would 
argue that it's a bit too tight.  I've always been comfy doing so, but 
that's your call. 
 
I'm not sure what you have in mind when you say "light touring"?  And not 
knowing what frame size you're looking at I can only suggest the San Marco 
should do just fine, as long as you're okay with the limitations on the 
size of the tire and the braze-ons on the bike. I have a buddy of mine who 
rides his 61 Romulus on fully loaded tours and he seems to do fine.  I'm 
guessing the San Marco would do just as well, especially in the 58 & 63 
frame size with the double top tube.  
 
Dick Denning  
   

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Re: [RBW] Long Beach Bike Builders (or SoCal)

[Mike Goldsworthy]

Joe - 

thanks. He's got great reviews on Yelp too. If I end up buying a frame to 
build, I'll definitely be giving him a call. Really appreciate that lead

On Jan 23, 2012, at 9:33 AM, Joe Bartoe wrote:

> Try Chuck at Pacific Coast Cycles in Oceanside. He even has a few Rivs in his 
> shop.
> 
> > Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 22:13:44 -0800
> > Subject: [RBW] Long Beach Bike Builders (or SoCal)
> > From: mgoldswor...@gmail.com
> > To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
> > 
> > Hi all -
> > 
> > thanks so much for all the really helpful responses to my questions
> > about the 56cm Sam.
> > 
> > Now, another one. Is anyone familiar with a Rivendell-esque bike shop
> > in the Long Beach (or SoCal) area that could possibly do a build for
> > me?
> > 
> > thanks in advance
> > 
> > -- 
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> > 
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[RBW] Re: Every Day Carry - Here's Mine, What's Yours?

[jeffrey kane]

What's with everybody packing knives? ... I mean, yeesh, it's making
me feel paranoid!


On Jan 25, 12:18 pm, Amit Singh  wrote:
> I'm reposting this with hopes of greater response because it's a cool
> and interesting topic.
>
> This subject of 'every day carry' is one of which I've been slightly
> obsessed.
>
> Here is a link to an image of my EDC, and a list:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/amisingh/6760998841/
>
> - Bandana (serves as handkerchief)
> - Opinel No. 6 knife
> - Lip Ivo
> - iPhone 4 carried in Col. Littleton No. 50 Phone Wallet
> - Keys carried on ML Brown Braided Keychain
> - Shure E4 Earbuds
> - Lamy Fountain Pen
> - Moleskin Notebook (set up as GSD)
> - Swatch GB743
> - Canon S100 Camera
> - Surefire G2x Tactical Flashlight
>
> I like how all this stuff is compact so it fits well inside of a small
> trunk sack.  When I'm not on the bike it's generally carried in a
> pocket on my briefcase, and when that doesn't happen I can carry it
> all on my person in various pockets, although I'm tempted to start
> carrying a man-bag or a "m-urse".
>
> This is a 'heavy load', but it's everything which I need to flip
> between work and adventure.  Works for me.
>
> I'd be interested in seeing your EDC's.
>
> http://everyday-carry.com/is a neat website that shows lots of
> carries.  There are a few others which are similar.

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[RBW] Re: Every Day Carry - Here's Mine, What's Yours?

[Jay in Tel Aviv]

You asked, so here's mine, for my daily commute and shower at the gym
near my office:

In a Carracdice Super C saddlebag -
Lunch - cold cuts on homemade sourdough
Clothes + towel
Puncture kit including - tire levers, spare tube, kool stop tire jack
Allen wrenches
Wallet, cell phone, keys
1st aid supplies + spare key for cable lock (lesson from an "oops")
Cable lock
MP3 player + helmet
O2 rain jacket and plastic bag (for saddle) if it might rain
Ixon IQ headlight
Emergency granola bar
Whatever papers etc I need for work, and sometimes my laptop (14").

Those Shure buds are amazing. I have had several pair of SCL3 and 4s.
Unfortunately they don't last, hence several pairs, under Shure's
incredibly generous warranty program. Once my 2 years were up I went
back to the cheapies. :(

Jay
On Jan 25, 7:18 pm, Amit Singh  wrote:
> I'm reposting this with hopes of greater response because it's a cool
> and interesting topic.
>
> This subject of 'every day carry' is one of which I've been slightly
> obsessed.
>
> Here is a link to an image of my EDC, and a list:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/amisingh/6760998841/
>
> - Bandana (serves as handkerchief)
> - Opinel No. 6 knife
> - Lip Ivo
> - iPhone 4 carried in Col. Littleton No. 50 Phone Wallet
> - Keys carried on ML Brown Braided Keychain
> - Shure E4 Earbuds
> - Lamy Fountain Pen
> - Moleskin Notebook (set up as GSD)
> - Swatch GB743
> - Canon S100 Camera
> - Surefire G2x Tactical Flashlight
>
> I like how all this stuff is compact so it fits well inside of a small
> trunk sack.  When I'm not on the bike it's generally carried in a
> pocket on my briefcase, and when that doesn't happen I can carry it
> all on my person in various pockets, although I'm tempted to start
> carrying a man-bag or a "m-urse".
>
> This is a 'heavy load', but it's everything which I need to flip
> between work and adventure.  Works for me.
>
> I'd be interested in seeing your EDC's.
>
> http://everyday-carry.com/is a neat website that shows lots of
> carries.  There are a few others which are similar.

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Re: [RBW] Is the San Marcos a true Rivendell?

[Peter Morgano]

You should know that their was a discussion a while back as to whether any
rivendell that wasn't a custom was a "true" rivendell but the san Marcos
was designed by rivendell and is sold by them too so it has the same
geometry as other rivendell bikes so like the heron I would consider it a
rivendell.
On Jan 25, 2012 10:38 AM, "Pat"  wrote:

> Hi, Folks,
>
> I am an "old guy" (almost 64) and just finished my second year of cycling.
> I put in 4200 miles last year on a carbon frame bike which I like, but I'm
> looking around for something more comfortable for longer rides and light
> touring. I ran across the Rivendells a couple of months ago. I like what
> I'm reading and I'm esp interested in the Sam Hillborne and San Marcos.
>
> Do you Riv owners consider the San Marcos a true Rivendell? Can I expect
> the same quality ride, etc. from the San Marcos as I would the other Riv
> bikes? (I'm asking because it doesn't bear the Riv name.)
>
> Thanks in advance for your help.
>
> --
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[RBW] Re: Build kits!

[Manuel Acosta]

I like this. Being a stubborn, self-doer of sorts, I dislike not
working on my own bike. I believe that we are all makers of our own
destiny and we should be have some physical aspect of building or
maintaining our own bikes. That way if something breaks or falls off
you know it's your fault.


On Jan 26, 1:17 pm, William  wrote:
> It's a great strategy to streamline the bike selling process.  It saves the
> Riv-person some time, and it saves the customer a ton of anxiety if they
> don't come into the transaction with a bunch of preconceptions.  Clearly
> this won't be the choice of somebody who has really specific ideas about
> exactly what they want, or of cheap bastard parts hoarders that do their
> own builds (william looks in mirror).  When I've sent acquaintances to Riv,
> I've always told them 'trust the people, they won't steer you wrong'.  Now,
> I can tell them to trust the build kit, and trust the people.  With this,
> it's possible somebody could walk in, having never looked at the website,
> ride a couple bikes, make a choice and completely spec their build in under
> an hour.

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[RBW] Re: Extreme Exercize

[charlie]

I'm thinking the 'walking pace' level can be sustained for hours
(safely).the one that gets you in the fat burning zone. Higher
intensity efforts are for intervals. Shorter, higher intensity rides,
two hours or less are better for you (for health) in my opinion. The
two hour limit at higher intensity is just about right since our
muscles are depleted by then anyway. I'll bet quite a few of us have
or are 'overtraining' on a regular basis and I believe this can set us
average people up for heart problems or overuse injuries also. The
genetically superior folks just go faster but I think we can do the
same damage exercising at our 85% zone too. I've never enjoyed rides
that lasted more than about 4 hours no matter how much or how little
effort I put out. My @$$, hands or feet always seem to give me
adequate clues that I am overdoing it. Exercise junkie was a common
term I heard over the years to describe someone addicted to doing too
much.too often we forget the law of diminishing returns.

On Jan 26, 4:53 pm, PATRICK MOORE  wrote:
> Yes, I know: I meant to say that even at a far lower level of talent
> and exertion, you can hurt yourself by overdoing it.
>
> On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 5:40 PM, Patrick in VT  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 26, 4:57 pm, PATRICK MOORE  wrote:
> >> I'll add to this that even far-from-elite athletes can be hurt by
> >> "overtraining".
>
> > "overtraining" as you describe it is very different than the training
> > described in the study.  Proper training includes rest and recovery.
> > The average athlete who does structured training might only do 2 hard
> > workouts a week because to dig deep and get the desired physiological
> > adaptations from those workouts, one has to be well rested.  Going too
> > hard too often leads to "overtraining" and exactly what you
> > experienced - it's a major setback and can actually be kind of tricky
> > to bounce back from.
>
> > Interestingly enough, your own pulse can provide feedback injury,
> > illness, incomplete recovery, etc.  it's also a great way to measure
> > and monitor improvements in fitness, which is why so many folks use
> > heart-rate monitors to train - both during exercise and recovery.
>
> > --
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>
> --
> Patrick Moore
> Albuquerque, NM
> For professional resumes, contact
> Patrick Moore, ACRWhttp://resumespecialties.com/index.html

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[RBW] Re: Every Day Carry - Here's Mine, What's Yours?

[Kevin M]

I started carrying a Japanese carpenter's knife. It's the slimiest knife 
I've used and disappears in your pocket (in a good way) It's really about 
1/4in thick, and fits nicely in the "5th" pocket. I got mine from the Best 
Made Co., but there's many cheaper versions available. 

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[RBW] Re: Is the San Marcos a true Rivendell?

[DustyMerkin]

I own a San Marcos frame, and had a Rambouillet a few years back.  The
San Marcos is built to the same quality as the Ram but uses nicer
lugs, at least nicer looking.  The bottom bracket is actually stamped
"Rivendell"!  In terms of ride quality, that is still up in the air
since I have actually not built it up to ride.  I have a 2TT version
and I'm really surprised at how light it is, actually feels about the
same as my Soma Stanyan.

On Jan 26, 5:50 pm, Bill Carter  wrote:
> Pat,
> I am an "older" rider also, and I own a Heron road which is a similar
> bike, designed by Grant back in the day, made by Waterford and
> distributed through a special Heron dealer network but also sold by
> Riv.  I bought and built it new about eight years ago, and for me it
> rides better than anything, including a Waterford 1250 that I also
> have in my stable.  It's handling is quick and sporty, but
> predicatable and confidence inspiring in a way that is hard to
> describe, and it takes long downhills like nobody's business.  It
> truly is the last bike I'd give up, and most Riv afficionados regard
> the Heron as in the family, if not a "true Rivendell."  I received one
> of the Riv headbadge logo decals in an order from RBW HQ, slapped that
> sucker on the seat tube, so now I am all set!  At least until it peals
> off.   Best thing about it is that if you find you don't like the SOMA
> San Marcos (not likely), it should be easy to sell and recoup at least
> most of your investment.  The SOMA line has a following of its own,
> and when when you combine that with the Riv connection (much like my
> Waterford made Heron)you can appeal to two groups of loyalists.
> Best of luck, and let the list know what you decide.  Oh, and we do
> like pictures.
> Bill Carter
>
> On Jan 24, 5:52 pm, Pat  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hi, Folks,
>
> > I am an "old guy" (almost 64) and just finished my second year of cycling.
> > I put in 4200 miles last year on a carbon frame bike which I like, but I'm
> > looking around for something more comfortable for longer rides and light
> > touring. I ran across the Rivendells a couple of months ago. I like what
> > I'm reading and I'm esp interested in the Sam Hillborne and San Marcos.
>
> > Do you Riv owners consider the San Marcos a true Rivendell? Can I expect
> > the same quality ride, etc. from the San Marcos as I would the other Riv
> > bikes? (I'm asking because it doesn't bear the Riv name.)
>
> > Thanks in advance for your help.

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Re: [RBW] Who's that on the cover of Bicycle Times?

[Steve Palincsar]

On Thu, 2012-01-26 at 16:05 -0800, Montclair BobbyB wrote:
> For my money I say it's none other than Steve Palincsar...
> 
> You be the judge:
> 
> Steve the live action figure: http://tinyurl.com/72durs9
> Steve the animated action figure?: http://tinyurl.com/6qsr6ym

No, I think it's this guy:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_PIdVnCEhdUc/SVOyAX6RZ_I/AWo/Xtvm8LgBPEU/s400/08_santa_bike.jpg

It's like the /other/ Bobby says:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8qE6WQmNus&ob=av2e



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Re: [RBW] Who's that on the cover of Bicycle Times?

[PATRICK MOORE]

He ...he looks so OLD!

Patrick Moore, who wishes he rode as many miles as Steve does.

On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 5:05 PM, Montclair BobbyB
 wrote:
> For my money I say it's none other than Steve Palincsar...
>
> You be the judge:
>
> Steve the live action figure: http://tinyurl.com/72durs9
> Steve the animated action figure?: http://tinyurl.com/6qsr6ym
>
> (Sorry Steve, I couldn't resist).
>
> Peace,
> Bobby
>
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-- 
Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
For professional resumes, contact
Patrick Moore, ACRW
http://resumespecialties.com/index.html

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[RBW] Re: FS: Grand Bois Cerf 28X700C tires

[cyclotourist]

tires have found a new home on the East Coast, thanks for the interest!

On 1/25/12, cyclotourist  wrote:
> Used in good condition. Too light weight for me. Really. Swapped on
> some Jack Brown Greens for my weight weenie fix. The tread pattern
> just began to wear through in the front, rear just past that and
> starting to get a bit of a flat section down the middle.
>
> Back: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/6763186067/in/photostream/
> Front: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/6763185273/in/photostream/
>
> $55 for the set shipped to your door.
>
> http://www.compasscycle.com/Tires.html
>
> --
> Cheers,
> David
> Redlands, CA
>
> **
>


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Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA

**

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Re: [RBW] Re: Who's that on the cover of Bicycle Times?

[Bruce Herbitter]

Both of them have sort of the same curmudgeonly expression.   You must be
right Bobby

On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 6:23 PM, Montclair BobbyB  wrote:

> I can tell you've done this before, Bill...
>
> On Jan 26, 7:11 pm, William  wrote:
> > The real life action figure is the one with red tires
> > The animated action figure is the one with red rims
>
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[RBW] 'Nother damn' repair question -- very long shot

[PATRICK MOORE]

(But it does involve trikes!)

I just discovered that the (read carefully) Right side bearing cone on
the Left side axle stub is badly worn: see photo.

https://picasaweb.google.com/BERTIN753/Late70sOrEarly80sKenRogersBRT

Two questions:

1. Is fast wear on the left stub/right cone common, perhaps because
this is the bearing system that takes the most direct force from the
chain? I know that the man at the Trikes and (Odd) Bikes blog said
that he had this problem with his Higgins -- signalled by knocking
(which is what prompted me to first suspect the fw and, today,
investigate the bearing cones. He replaced his typical single-side
drive axle setup with a Trykit dual-wheel-drive setup.)

2. Where can one find these bearing cones? Is there a US source, or
does one have to go to the UK? Particulars about US or UK sources?

I've already asked on the CR list but thought I'd ask here, too,
because: You Just Never Know.

Many thanks.

-- 
Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
For professional resumes, contact
Patrick Moore, ACRW
http://resumespecialties.com/index.html

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[RBW] Zipper fix or replacement advice?

[Leslie]

I had a TNF jacket that had a seam come lose; I contacted them about it, the 
repaired it and shipped it back to me w/ no charge. (Moss did that w/ a repair 
on a tent for me, too.)  A lot of bigger companies will do that to help 
build/keep up a reputation.  If something was my fault, I'd not expect it free, 
just a reasonable charge; but if something came apart that's not expected to, 
then maybe they'll help... 

A local seamstress has to make a living, and have a bit of 'liabilty insurance' 
if something went wrong; a big manufacturer might be able to have a repair shop 
onhand, at better rates...  No guarantees, but maybe...  Wouldn't hurt to call 
'em...

-L

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Re: [RBW] Re: Extreme Exercize

[PATRICK MOORE]

Yes, I know: I meant to say that even at a far lower level of talent
and exertion, you can hurt yourself by overdoing it.

On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 5:40 PM, Patrick in VT  wrote:
> On Jan 26, 4:57 pm, PATRICK MOORE  wrote:
>> I'll add to this that even far-from-elite athletes can be hurt by
>> "overtraining".
>
> "overtraining" as you describe it is very different than the training
> described in the study.  Proper training includes rest and recovery.
> The average athlete who does structured training might only do 2 hard
> workouts a week because to dig deep and get the desired physiological
> adaptations from those workouts, one has to be well rested.  Going too
> hard too often leads to "overtraining" and exactly what you
> experienced - it's a major setback and can actually be kind of tricky
> to bounce back from.
>
> Interestingly enough, your own pulse can provide feedback injury,
> illness, incomplete recovery, etc.  it's also a great way to measure
> and monitor improvements in fitness, which is why so many folks use
> heart-rate monitors to train - both during exercise and recovery.
>
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-- 
Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
For professional resumes, contact
Patrick Moore, ACRW
http://resumespecialties.com/index.html

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[RBW] Re: Extreme Exercize

[Patrick in VT]

On Jan 26, 4:57 pm, PATRICK MOORE  wrote:
> I'll add to this that even far-from-elite athletes can be hurt by
> "overtraining".

"overtraining" as you describe it is very different than the training
described in the study.  Proper training includes rest and recovery.
The average athlete who does structured training might only do 2 hard
workouts a week because to dig deep and get the desired physiological
adaptations from those workouts, one has to be well rested.  Going too
hard too often leads to "overtraining" and exactly what you
experienced - it's a major setback and can actually be kind of tricky
to bounce back from.

Interestingly enough, your own pulse can provide feedback injury,
illness, incomplete recovery, etc.  it's also a great way to measure
and monitor improvements in fitness, which is why so many folks use
heart-rate monitors to train - both during exercise and recovery.

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[RBW] Re: Who's that on the cover of Bicycle Times?

[Montclair BobbyB]

I can tell you've done this before, Bill...

On Jan 26, 7:11 pm, William  wrote:
> The real life action figure is the one with red tires
> The animated action figure is the one with red rims

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[RBW] Re: Riv Rally East 2012

[Montclair BobbyB]

Minh:

The GAP Trail web site has lots of great info... check it out -
http://www.atatrail.org/

The mileage chart on the site indicates it's a total of 62 miles on
Day 1 from Cumberland to Confluence, or 47 miles from Frostburg to
Confluence.

The elevation chart indicates from Cumberland to the Continental
Divide is roughly 1800 feet of climb over 25 miles. (Don't be
dissuaded by the steepness of the terrain on the graph; the elevation
gain really averages out to only roughly 72 feet per mile, and the
grade gets no worse than 1.5% at any point.  While it is technically
uphill, this is not Alpe d'Huez by any stretch of the imagination).  I
hope you'll consider joining, whether from Cumberland, or you'll have
the option to start from Frostburg and rendezvous with the Cumberland
Rallyers.  No rider will be left behind, and this will be a steady but
leisurely, fun pace, I promise.

Also, I hereby declare Winter as OVER... please come out of
hibernation immediately.

Peace,
Bobby

On Jan 26, 2:13 pm, Minh  wrote:
> Bobby,
>
> With the updates, are the mileage estimates still valid for day 1 and
> day 2?  I'm just trying to plan and have a think about whether i can
> handle the distance, especially coming out of winter hibernation.

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[RBW] Re: Who's that on the cover of Bicycle Times?

[William]

The real life action figure is the one with red tires
The animated action figure is the one with red rims

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[RBW] Who's that on the cover of Bicycle Times?

[Montclair BobbyB]

For my money I say it's none other than Steve Palincsar...

You be the judge:

Steve the live action figure: http://tinyurl.com/72durs9
Steve the animated action figure?: http://tinyurl.com/6qsr6ym

(Sorry Steve, I couldn't resist).

Peace,
Bobby

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[RBW] Zipper fix or replacement advice?

[Kelly]

Be sure to check with Cannondale.  I had a jacket that had a seam pull on a 
Pearl Izumi Jacket  and found out it was life time warranty for those types of 
things.  They just exchanged it for a new one of similar value. 

Never know, might get lucky.

Kelly

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[RBW] Re: Is the San Marcos a true Rivendell?

[Bill Carter]

Pat,
I am an "older" rider also, and I own a Heron road which is a similar
bike, designed by Grant back in the day, made by Waterford and
distributed through a special Heron dealer network but also sold by
Riv.  I bought and built it new about eight years ago, and for me it
rides better than anything, including a Waterford 1250 that I also
have in my stable.  It's handling is quick and sporty, but
predicatable and confidence inspiring in a way that is hard to
describe, and it takes long downhills like nobody's business.  It
truly is the last bike I'd give up, and most Riv afficionados regard
the Heron as in the family, if not a "true Rivendell."  I received one
of the Riv headbadge logo decals in an order from RBW HQ, slapped that
sucker on the seat tube, so now I am all set!  At least until it peals
off.   Best thing about it is that if you find you don't like the SOMA
San Marcos (not likely), it should be easy to sell and recoup at least
most of your investment.  The SOMA line has a following of its own,
and when when you combine that with the Riv connection (much like my
Waterford made Heron)you can appeal to two groups of loyalists.
Best of luck, and let the list know what you decide.  Oh, and we do
like pictures.
Bill Carter



On Jan 24, 5:52 pm, Pat  wrote:
> Hi, Folks,
>
> I am an "old guy" (almost 64) and just finished my second year of cycling.
> I put in 4200 miles last year on a carbon frame bike which I like, but I'm
> looking around for something more comfortable for longer rides and light
> touring. I ran across the Rivendells a couple of months ago. I like what
> I'm reading and I'm esp interested in the Sam Hillborne and San Marcos.
>
> Do you Riv owners consider the San Marcos a true Rivendell? Can I expect
> the same quality ride, etc. from the San Marcos as I would the other Riv
> bikes? (I'm asking because it doesn't bear the Riv name.)
>
> Thanks in advance for your help.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Zipper fix or replacement advice?

[Eric Norris]

I married a seamstress. She has done a number of repair jobs on various pieces 
of cycling clothing, and her general comment is that the fabrics and 
construction are harder to work with than, say, a standard shirt.

Like anything else, zippers can be purchased online: http://tinyurl.com/78jltt3

--Eric N
Sent from my iPad2 

On Jan 26, 2012, at 3:23 PM, William  wrote:

> Comment 1:  $3 per inch x 15 inches is $45 not $75.
> Comment 2:  Zippers are found at the fabric store
> Comment 3:  For most garments like that, a goodly amount of the time to fix 
> it is carefully removing the old one.  As you take out the old one you get a 
> pretty good idea of how the garment is constructed, and probably will have a 
> pretty good feeling on whether or not you want to give it a go with your 
> sewing machine
> Comment 4:  There are hundreds of online sewing tutorials on youtube and 
> elsewhere
> 
> All that said, I always have my mom fix my jerseys.  
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[RBW] Re: Zipper fix or replacement advice?

[William]

Comment 1:  $3 per inch x 15 inches is $45 not $75.
Comment 2:  Zippers are found at the fabric store
Comment 3:  For most garments like that, a goodly amount of the time to fix 
it is carefully removing the old one.  As you take out the old one you get 
a pretty good idea of how the garment is constructed, and probably will 
have a pretty good feeling on whether or not you want to give it a go with 
your sewing machine
Comment 4:  There are hundreds of online sewing tutorials on youtube and 
elsewhere

All that said, I always have my mom fix my jerseys.  

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[RBW] Zipper fix or replacement advice?

[PATRICK MOORE]

The lady at the nearby sewing place just quoted me $75 ($3/inch X 15")
to replace the front zipper on my Cannondale vest/jacket. She can't
just replace the puller part because the little metal thingy that
clamps onto the bottom of one side of the zip, to keep the puller from
falling off, is gone.

Is replacing a zipper something even a novice and idiot wrt sewing can
do, or should I just admit defeat?

Where does one find good quality replacement zippers in a 15" length?

Any advice welcome.

Thanks.

-- 
Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
For professional resumes, contact
Patrick Moore, ACRW
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Re: [RBW] Every Day Carry - Here's Mine, What's Yours?

[PATRICK MOORE]

Mine varies from bike to bike; here are the extremes:

Off road bike (Fargo)

3 tubes
patch kit
tire boot
multi tool (all needed allens -- from SPD pedals to stem binder bolt;
all needed hexes, chain tool, spoke wrenches, screwdrivers)
Quik Stik
saddle cover
reflective ankle strip
Swiss army knife (for the blade)
extra chain link
extra Sram chain link
zip ties
Lezyne minipump, fat size
shop rag

Gofast (man, this has been hanging on my wall unrid since September)
Park T-bone tool
2 tubes
patch kit
saddle cover (gotta protect those Flites)
Lezyne mini (the skinny one)

The trike and the '03 Curt get something in between.

On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 1:40 PM, Kelly  wrote:
> Ok here's mine.
>
> Park Patch Kit
> Park Boot Kit
> Brooks Tool Roll with added chain tool
> Park Latex Gloves
> Tube sometimes two
> Master-link
> Rain Gear
> straps
> Lock
> headlamp  nice for night time anything needing to see.
> Phone
> Nikon D90
> Stanley 1.4 quart thermos w/coffee
>
> General Stuff
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/tksleeper/6767269705/in/photostream
>
> Thermos and Camera
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/tksleeper/6767269199/in/photostream
>
> In the winter I carry a set of heavier gloves and balaclava... or lighter as 
> the case may be.
>
> Kelly
>
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-- 
Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
For professional resumes, contact
Patrick Moore, ACRW
http://resumespecialties.com/index.html

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[RBW] Re: Extreme Exercize

[Patrick in VT]

On Jan 26, 12:39 pm, Lyle Bogart  wrote:
> In the research I've been looking at, one of the points left unclear to me
> is how much is too much.

okay, so I read the abstract and related articles linked in the Peak
Fitness article regarding the La Gerche study.  To put "extreme" into
context as we are discussing it, "highly trained" athletes are doing
3+ hour events and train for several hours a day (10+hours/week),
resulting in workloads of 200–300 METs (metabolic equivalent of task)
per week, which is 5–10 times greater than the exercise
recommendations for preventing heart disease (I read that as
recreational sporting - maybe 30mins/day at low intensity).  MET is
basically an index of the intensity of physical activities (not a very
good one, because their is a lot variance based on individual
physiology), but good enough for comparison's sake here.

Not only that, but the intensity at which these "highly trained"
athletes are performing during their events is off the charts are far
as we are concerned - the athletes tested in the La Gerche study
finished in the top 25% of their field.  At that level, athletes are
capable of working at 85-95% of the their max heart rate for long
periods of time.  We're not talking recreational/amateur stuff here.



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Re: [RBW] Re: Extreme Exercize

[PATRICK MOORE]

I'll add to this that even far-from-elite athletes can be hurt by
"overtraining". When I was, 4 times a week, riding the 16 miles each
way between home and work, W-E across Albuquerque -- Central from
Unser (actually entered Central at Atrisco) to Juan Tabo -- with some
6 or 7 miles of climbing, in under 60 minutes including stops (often
on a fixed gear), and always with a load, I was also regularly on the
verge of sinus and throat infections, not to mention chronic fatigue.
It was fun to overtake and keep ahead of the Route 66 bus, though.
Can't do that now, 10 years later (almost 57)!

Note that it was about the same time that I was diagnosed with
arrhythmia, tho' I don't know if the two were related. I did have a
very low resting pulse. (I avoided beta blockers by a 18 month regimen
of Chinese medicine (a quart a day of various, horrible, horrible
witches-brew herbal potions -- dark, oily, scummy -- patent pills and
accupuncture imposed by my ex who is a DOM as well as MD.)


On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Patrick in VT  wrote:
> On Jan 25, 9:06 pm, robert zeidler  wrote:
>
>> But it takes really sick
>> efforts to make one, well, really sick.
>
> that's a very good point.  most folks will never approach the training
> levels of elite athletes - their "training" is very different than
> recreational athletes.  most folks can't spend 10 minutes near their
> anaerobic threshold, let alone 3+ hours like elite endurance athletes
> commonly do.  there's a world of difference here, and frankly it's
> just not something most of us need to be concerned about.
>
> I'd add that while high intensity (anaerobic) exercise definitely has
> it's benefits, it's a sure fire way to get injured if one doesn't
> prime the body for those efforts.
>
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-- 
Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
For professional resumes, contact
Patrick Moore, ACRW
http://resumespecialties.com/index.html

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[RBW] Re: Extreme Exercize

[awilliams53]

Validates the wisdom of Satchel Paige, who said, among other things,
'Avoid running at all times!'


http://lawsoflife.co.uk/paiges-rules-for-living/


Andy


On Jan 25, 5:29 pm, Michael Hechmer  wrote:
> A while back the Riv Reader published an article challenging the benefits
> of ultra endurance events.  With that in mind, I offer this research report:
>
> http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness/archive/2012/01/25/cardio-ma...
>
> I have to admit, I have long since gotten over any urge to do anything that
> smacks of "training", so perhaps this appeals to my preconceived desires.
>
> blessings,
> michael

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[RBW] Re: Build kits!

[William]

It's a great strategy to streamline the bike selling process.  It saves the 
Riv-person some time, and it saves the customer a ton of anxiety if they 
don't come into the transaction with a bunch of preconceptions.  Clearly 
this won't be the choice of somebody who has really specific ideas about 
exactly what they want, or of cheap bastard parts hoarders that do their 
own builds (william looks in mirror).  When I've sent acquaintances to Riv, 
I've always told them 'trust the people, they won't steer you wrong'.  Now, 
I can tell them to trust the build kit, and trust the people.  With this, 
it's possible somebody could walk in, having never looked at the website, 
ride a couple bikes, make a choice and completely spec their build in under 
an hour.

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[RBW] Every Day Carry - Here's Mine, What's Yours?

[Kelly]

Ok here's mine.

Park Patch Kit
Park Boot Kit
Brooks Tool Roll with added chain tool
Park Latex Gloves
Tube sometimes two
Master-link
Rain Gear
straps
Lock
headlamp  nice for night time anything needing to see.
Phone
Nikon D90
Stanley 1.4 quart thermos w/coffee 

General Stuff
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tksleeper/6767269705/in/photostream

Thermos and Camera
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tksleeper/6767269199/in/photostream

In the winter I carry a set of heavier gloves and balaclava... or lighter as 
the case may be.

Kelly

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[RBW] Re: Build kits!

[John Bennett]

Thanks for noticing, Leslie. These are the components that work so
well together on our frames (and we recommend them time and time
again), so we thought we would make it easier for everyone by offering
them as kits. We knocked a little of the collective price to make it
more attractive, too.

Cheers,

John at RBW



On Jan 26, 9:48 am, Leslie  wrote:
> Check it out!
>
> http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/build-03.htm

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Re: [RBW] Re: Extreme Exercize

[PATRICK MOORE]

And this just in! "Drunk to bed" (Enobarbus, of course -- what, you
don't know who he is???*) prolongs life.

Seriously, although I continually shout that the only valid reason for
cycling (beside transportation for the poor) is fun, I am only
gradually crow-barring away the compulsion to make every ride a time
trial. (Usually a slow motion time trial.) But things are looking up
and it is good to have theoretical support.

*

Act I, Scene 2

The same. Another room.



[Enter CHARMIAN, IRAS, ALEXAS, and a Soothsayer]

Charmian. Lord Alexas, sweet Alexas, most any thing Alexas,
almost most absolute Alexas, where's the soothsayer 80
that you praised so to the queen? O, that I knew
this husband, which, you say, must charge his horns
with garlands!

Alexas. Soothsayer!

Soothsayer. Your will?85

Charmian. Is this the man? Is't you, sir, that know things?

Soothsayer. In nature's infinite book of secrecy
A little I can read.

Alexas. Show him your hand.

[Enter DOMITIUS ENOBARBUS]

Domitius Enobarus. Bring in the banquet quickly; wine enough
Cleopatra's health to drink.

Charmian. Good sir, give me good fortune.

Soothsayer. I make not, but foresee.

Charmian. Pray, then, foresee me one.95

Soothsayer. You shall be yet far fairer than you are.

Charmian. He means in flesh.

Iras. No, you shall paint when you are old.

Charmian. Wrinkles forbid!

Alexas. Vex not his prescience; be attentive.100

Charmian. Hush!

Soothsayer. You shall be more beloving than beloved.

Charmian. I had rather heat my liver with drinking.

Alexas. Nay, hear him.

Charmian. Good now, some excellent fortune! Let me be married 105
to three kings in a forenoon, and widow them all:
let me have a child at fifty, to whom Herod of Jewry
may do homage: find me to marry me with Octavius
Caesar, and companion me with my mistress.

Soothsayer. You shall outlive the lady whom you serve.110

Charmian. O excellent! I love long life better than figs.

Soothsayer. You have seen and proved a fairer former fortune
Than that which is to approach.

Charmian. Then belike my children shall have no names:
prithee, how many boys and wenches must I have?115

Soothsayer. If every of your wishes had a womb.
And fertile every wish, a million.

Charmian. Out, fool! I forgive thee for a witch.

Alexas. You think none but your sheets are privy to your wishes.

Charmian. Nay, come, tell Iras hers.120

Alexas. We'll know all our fortunes.

Domitius Enobarus. Mine, and most of our fortunes, to-night, shall
be—drunk to bed.

Iras. There's a palm presages chastity, if nothing else.

Charmian. E'en as the o'erflowing Nilus presageth famine.125

Iras. Go, you wild bedfellow, you cannot soothsay.

Charmian. Nay, if an oily palm be not a fruitful
prognostication, I cannot scratch mine ear. Prithee,
tell her but a worky-day fortune.

Soothsayer. Your fortunes are alike.130

Iras. But how, but how? give me particulars.

Soothsayer. I have said.

Iras. Am I not an inch of fortune better than she?

Charmian. Well, if you were but an inch of fortune better than
I, where would you choose it?135

Iras. Not in my husband's nose.

Charmian. Our worser thoughts heavens mend! Alexas,—come,
his fortune, his fortune! O, let him marry a woman
that cannot go, sweet Isis, I beseech thee! and let
her die too, and give him a worse! and let worst 140
follow worse, till the worst of all follow him
laughing to his grave, fifty-fold a cuckold! Good
Isis, hear me this prayer, though thou deny me a
matter of more weight; good Isis, I beseech thee!

Iras. Amen. Dear goddess, hear that prayer of the people! 145
for, as it is a heartbreaking to see a handsome man
loose-wived, so it is a deadly sorrow to behold a
foul knave uncuckolded: therefore, dear Isis, keep
decorum, and fortune him accordingly!

Charmian. Amen.150

Alexas. Lo, now, if it lay in their hands to make me a
cuckold, they would make themselves whores, but
they'ld do't!

Domitius Enobarus. Hush! here comes Antony.

Charmian. Not he; the queen.


On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 9:51 PM, rcnute  wrote:
>
> I saw headlines the last couple days that the risks of fried food were
> overstated and eating chocolate prevents bowel cancer.  Things are
> looking up.
>
> Ryan
>
> On Jan 25, 5:29 pm, Michael Hechmer  wrote:
> > A while back the Riv Reader published an article challenging the benefits
> > of ultra endurance events.  With that in mind, I offer this research report:
> >
> > http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness/archive/2012/01/25/cardio-ma...
> >
> > I have to admit, I have long since gotten over any urge to do anything that
> > smacks of "training", so perhaps this appeals to my preconceived desires.
> >
> > blessings,
> > michael
>
> --
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[RBW] Re: FS: New In Box Sidi Touring Shoes, Size 47.0 (which fits 11D me)

[Minh]

LOL, i've had a pair of these for about 7-8 years and i actually ran
downstairs to double-check the size of mine to see if these would fit
as a 'backup' pair for myself.  even though i don't always wear them
when i ride, my pair are getting gnarly on the bottom.  i wear a 46
and an 11 tennis shoe so i think john's sizing is pretty accurate.

i think sidi stopped making these right? even when these were being
made the wait was even worst then the n.smythe bags!  wasn't there an
urban legend that these were only being made by one person at the
factory and he retired?



On Jan 26, 1:41 pm, John Bennett  wrote:
> These always ran small, and I wear an 11D in normal shoes, so that's
> what I would call these, give or take.
>
> I bought these as a "back-up pair" 11 years ago, and have never worn
> them. I am riding in desert boots and Jack Purcells full-time these
> days, so I don't foresee needing them in the future, and I just
> plunked down some dough for new suit, so.
>
> I checked with a highly-respected Knower of These Things Up North who
> said they should be priced at $150, so that's what I'm asking. $10 for
> shipping and insurance.
>
> Will take, and would prefer, a personal check from regular Forum
> members. PayPal only as a last resort.
>
> Fine print: Even though they're new, I am selling them "as-is" and
> "all sales final," and they're in no way connected to my place of
> employment.
>
> Oh, here's a link with pictures:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/74280875@N07/
>
> Contact me off-list if you want them.
>
> Cheers,
>
> John

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[RBW] Re: Riv Rally East 2012

[Minh]

Bobby,

With the updates, are the mileage estimates still valid for day 1 and
day 2?  I'm just trying to plan and have a think about whether i can
handle the distance, especially coming out of winter hibernation.

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[RBW] Re: Extreme Exercize

[Patrick in VT]

On Jan 26, 12:39 pm, Lyle Bogart  wrote:

> In the research I've been looking at, one of the points left unclear to me
> is how much is too much. In certain of the studies, the subjects are elite
> road cyclist, ultra-runners, or elite nordic ski racers. In others, the
> subjects are referred to as "long-time endurance exercisers" which is, to
> me, a bit opaque, though contextually I take to mean on a par with
> "recreational" marathon runners.

I'd like to see some clarification there too.  elite level athletes
are working at higher levels of intensity for longer durations than
the vast majority of recreational athletes.  and the amount and type
of training it takes to run a sub 3 hour marathon is very different
than what it takes the recreational runner to finish 6 hour marathon.
again, there's just a world of difference between these two athletes
and context is key.   i'll be racing elite level cyclocross next year
as a Cat 2, but i do not consider myself "elite" compared to those who
are actually winning the races.  there's yet another world - and I
mean *world* - of difference between me and those athletes and I'm
under no illusion of ever being able to close that gap for exactly the
reasons being discussed here - health, balance, time, other interests,
etc.

anyway, "how much is too much" could probably be answered (generally,
at least) by a performance threshold - i.e., if one wants to compete
at the top levels of a given sport, they might be flirting with "too
much" given the amount of training it takes to compete at that level.
or put another way, i don't think the twice a year 6 hour marathoner
needs to be concerned about cardiac damage.   Chrissie Wellington
(elite female triathlete) on the other hand?   that's just
unfathomable training and it's not inconceivable that training like
that isn't the best for long term health.


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Re: [RBW] Re: Extreme Exercize

[Anne Paulson]

I agree. I love to ride my bike, and I like long rides. When I'm out
riding, sometimes someone asks whether I'm training for something.
"Training for something?" I say. "No. This is the thing, riding my
bike."

On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Esteban  wrote:

>
> But one of the reasons I enjoy it is that I never train for
> randonneuring.  "Training" is a great way to ruin something fun. If I
> can ride a century now and then, I can do a 200K.  If I can do a 200K,
> then a 300K and 400K are totally possible (that's my limit so far).
> Its mostly about hanging on.


-- 
-- Anne Paulson

My hovercraft is full of eels

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[RBW] Re: Is the San Marcos a true Rivendell?

[Peter Pesce]

Only a true Rivendell would come with double top tubes!


-Pete
SingleSixtySidepullSam
... and a QB

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[RBW] FS: New In Box Sidi Touring Shoes, Size 47.0 (which fits 11D me)

[John Bennett]

These always ran small, and I wear an 11D in normal shoes, so that's
what I would call these, give or take.

I bought these as a "back-up pair" 11 years ago, and have never worn
them. I am riding in desert boots and Jack Purcells full-time these
days, so I don't foresee needing them in the future, and I just
plunked down some dough for new suit, so.

I checked with a highly-respected Knower of These Things Up North who
said they should be priced at $150, so that's what I'm asking. $10 for
shipping and insurance.

Will take, and would prefer, a personal check from regular Forum
members. PayPal only as a last resort.

Fine print: Even though they're new, I am selling them "as-is" and
"all sales final," and they're in no way connected to my place of
employment.

Oh, here's a link with pictures:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/74280875@N07/

Contact me off-list if you want them.

Cheers,

John

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[RBW] Re: Is the San Marcos a true Rivendell?

[Minh]

Pat,
I'll echo what others say and not worry about the idea of 'is it a
rivendell' they all have the characteristics that are key to the
rivendell ethos, so if you buy in to those ideas then you'll be happy
with all of them.  The two you are looking at are different types of
bikes with different uses, IMHO:

San Marcos: fast'ish road bike, light touring, decent tire-clearance
but not extreme (esp w/ fenders)
Hillborne: suitable for touring, not quite as snappy, large tire
clearance makes for a decent trail bike even with fenders

If you want a more flexibile all-arounder i'd think the Hillborne
makes more sense since you can load it up with big tires and racks or
put on skinny tires and built it up light-ish.

but if you have no desire to carry panniers or do loaded touring the
san marcos would be fine

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Re: [RBW] Extreme Exercize

[robert zeidler]

I just did a brevet in Gainesville. 200k, nothing too nuts. Big fun.
It IS a free country so to each his/her own. Riding all night is Ok if
that's one choice.

But not in south of France unless that's where you ride all the time.

On Thursday, January 26, 2012, jimD  wrote:
> Many of my non bicycler friends think that riding 25 miles is Xtreme.
> It's a strange thing that as a country we have increasing rates of
obesity and great fascination with
> Xtreme physical events.
>  Do I recall correctly that there is/was a tv show having something to
> do with Xtreme food or eating?
> Xtremely yours,
> JimD
> On Jan 26, 2012, at 8:52 AM, robert zeidler wrote:
>
> Cycling, while I love as much as any activety, and certainly more than
work, is only one of the things I want to do in life.
>
> On Thursday, January 26, 2012, Patrick in VT  wrote:
>> On Jan 26, 10:42 am, robert zeidler  wrote:
>>
>>  > Just a matter if time until we have extreme bowling.
>>
>> Another good point.  What is driving people to the "extreme,"
>> especially amateur athletes?   Of course, it's all relative - but I
>> think for many amateur/recreational athletes, once the sense of
>> accomplishment that came from completing an endurance event (let's say
>> a marathon) becomes stale or commonplace (now that it is fairly common
>> to see people walking large parts of marathons), they want to push
>> harder for a PR or go farther to regain that sense of accomplishment.
>> I have no evidence of this, but the current boom with triathlon and
>> "extreme" (in the Mt. Dew/X-games sense of the word) endurance events,
>> like the Tough Mudder, seem to be a direct result of events like a
>> marathon becoming too average.  there's no cachet to it anymore.  so
>> they go bigger, and that's a slippery slope.  it's really pretty ego-
>> centric.
>>
>> like most things, i think there's a healthy balance.  it's good to
>> have goals.  challenge ourselves a little, or even a lot.   competing,
>> even at the recreational/amateur level, can be a very motivating,
>> healthy experience for people of all ages.  I also think there is a
>> misconception about "training" -  the athlete the exercises with the
>> intent to compete can be said to "train," but it's just exercise.  in
>> other words, anybody who enjoys doing any kind of aerobic exercise for
>> more than 30mins is training.  we can't go out and enjoy a couple
>> hours on our favorite roads without maintaining some aerobic
>> fitness.   and anybody who wants to improve their fitness - maybe be a
>> little stronger on the hills or turn a 15mile ride into a 30mile ride
>> - is training.  competitive athletes just exercise a little
>> differently.  and i bet a lot people would be surprised at what a
>> structured "training" program looks for a competitive amateur
>> cyclist .. .. it's not killing yourself everyday or working so hard
>> that you want to throw up.  far from it.
>>
>> --
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Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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Re: [RBW] Extreme Exercize

[Lyle Bogart]

In the research I've been looking at, one of the points left unclear to me
is how much is too much. In certain of the studies, the subjects are elite
road cyclist, ultra-runners, or elite nordic ski racers. In others, the
subjects are referred to as "long-time endurance exercisers" which is, to
me, a bit opaque, though contextually I take to mean on a par with
"recreational" marathon runners.

However, the points which keep coming back to me are the chronicity of the
activity (how many years a person has been performing this type of
activity) and the findings associated with chronic systemic inflammation (a
systemic "stress response") marked by elevated levels of C-reactive protein
and interleukin-6, both of which are known markers of cardiac
disease/dysfunction. Some researchers are finding they may be predictive of
cardiac disease.

To me, this suggests that, as with so many things, and as Patrick in Vt
noted, the key is balance and not just in exercise but in Life. My patients
and clients who find themselves under high levels of stress at times
(physical or psycho-emotional) are encouraged to back off their exercise
programs until the stressors are reduced (think accountants around
tax-time) since the body doesn't differentiate "good stress" (exercise is
good for me!) from "bad stress" (gawd, I hate my job!).

Cheers!

lyle
On 26 January 2012 12:14, jimD  wrote:

> Many of my non bicycler friends think that riding 25 miles is Xtreme.
>
> It's a strange thing that as a country we have increasing rates of obesity
> and great fascination with
> Xtreme physical events.
>
>  Do I recall correctly that there is/was a tv show having something to
> do with Xtreme food or eating?
>
> Xtremely yours,
> JimD
>
>  On Jan 26, 2012, at 8:52 AM, robert zeidler wrote:
>
> Cycling, while I love as much as any activety, and certainly more than
> work, is only one of the things I want to do in life.
>
> On Thursday, January 26, 2012, Patrick in VT  wrote:
> > On Jan 26, 10:42 am, robert zeidler  wrote:
> >
> >  > Just a matter if time until we have extreme bowling.
> >
> > Another good point.  What is driving people to the "extreme,"
> > especially amateur athletes?   Of course, it's all relative - but I
> > think for many amateur/recreational athletes, once the sense of
> > accomplishment that came from completing an endurance event (let's say
> > a marathon) becomes stale or commonplace (now that it is fairly common
> > to see people walking large parts of marathons), they want to push
> > harder for a PR or go farther to regain that sense of accomplishment.
> > I have no evidence of this, but the current boom with triathlon and
> > "extreme" (in the Mt. Dew/X-games sense of the word) endurance events,
> > like the Tough Mudder, seem to be a direct result of events like a
> > marathon becoming too average.  there's no cachet to it anymore.  so
> > they go bigger, and that's a slippery slope.  it's really pretty ego-
> > centric.
> >
> > like most things, i think there's a healthy balance.  it's good to
> > have goals.  challenge ourselves a little, or even a lot.   competing,
> > even at the recreational/amateur level, can be a very motivating,
> > healthy experience for people of all ages.  I also think there is a
> > misconception about "training" -  the athlete the exercises with the
> > intent to compete can be said to "train," but it's just exercise.  in
> > other words, anybody who enjoys doing any kind of aerobic exercise for
> > more than 30mins is training.  we can't go out and enjoy a couple
> > hours on our favorite roads without maintaining some aerobic
> > fitness.   and anybody who wants to improve their fitness - maybe be a
> > little stronger on the hills or turn a 15mile ride into a 30mile ride
> > - is training.  competitive athletes just exercise a little
> > differently.  and i bet a lot people would be surprised at what a
> > structured "training" program looks for a competitive amateur
> > cyclist .. .. it's not killing yourself everyday or working so hard
> > that you want to throw up.  far from it.
> >
> > --
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> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> >
>
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Re: [RBW] Extreme Exercize

[jimD]

Many of my non bicycler friends think that riding 25 miles is Xtreme.

It's a strange thing that as a country we have increasing rates of obesity and 
great fascination with
Xtreme physical events. 

 Do I recall correctly that there is/was a tv show having something to 
do with Xtreme food or eating?

Xtremely yours,
JimD

On Jan 26, 2012, at 8:52 AM, robert zeidler wrote:

> Cycling, while I love as much as any activety, and certainly more than work, 
> is only one of the things I want to do in life. 
> 
> On Thursday, January 26, 2012, Patrick in VT  wrote:
> > On Jan 26, 10:42 am, robert zeidler  wrote:
> >
> >  > Just a matter if time until we have extreme bowling.
> >
> > Another good point.  What is driving people to the "extreme,"
> > especially amateur athletes?   Of course, it's all relative - but I
> > think for many amateur/recreational athletes, once the sense of
> > accomplishment that came from completing an endurance event (let's say
> > a marathon) becomes stale or commonplace (now that it is fairly common
> > to see people walking large parts of marathons), they want to push
> > harder for a PR or go farther to regain that sense of accomplishment.
> > I have no evidence of this, but the current boom with triathlon and
> > "extreme" (in the Mt. Dew/X-games sense of the word) endurance events,
> > like the Tough Mudder, seem to be a direct result of events like a
> > marathon becoming too average.  there's no cachet to it anymore.  so
> > they go bigger, and that's a slippery slope.  it's really pretty ego-
> > centric.
> >
> > like most things, i think there's a healthy balance.  it's good to
> > have goals.  challenge ourselves a little, or even a lot.   competing,
> > even at the recreational/amateur level, can be a very motivating,
> > healthy experience for people of all ages.  I also think there is a
> > misconception about "training" -  the athlete the exercises with the
> > intent to compete can be said to "train," but it's just exercise.  in
> > other words, anybody who enjoys doing any kind of aerobic exercise for
> > more than 30mins is training.  we can't go out and enjoy a couple
> > hours on our favorite roads without maintaining some aerobic
> > fitness.   and anybody who wants to improve their fitness - maybe be a
> > little stronger on the hills or turn a 15mile ride into a 30mile ride
> > - is training.  competitive athletes just exercise a little
> > differently.  and i bet a lot people would be surprised at what a
> > structured "training" program looks for a competitive amateur
> > cyclist .. .. it's not killing yourself everyday or working so hard
> > that you want to throw up.  far from it.
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> > "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at 
> > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
> >
> >
> 
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RE: [RBW] Re: Riv Rally East 2012

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Another committed: 3 Allinghams total 

-Original Message-
From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Montclair BobbyB
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 6:58 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch
Subject: [RBW] Re: Riv Rally East 2012

Shuttle Update:  Good news... Wilderness Voyageurs (WV) provided me with what I 
consider a very reasonable rate for 2 vans (to shuttle approx 25 passengers 
plus bikes and gear).  They have a large rack on top of one van, and a box 
trailer for the balance of the bikes and gear.  The price quote is $415, which 
translates to roughly $17 per person (if we have 25), or $28 per person (if we 
have 15), etc... you get the idea.  We pay for the vans and trailer, regardless 
of the number of people.  Either way I think that's a very reasonable price 
(compared to other quotes for large buses).  I would like to propose leaving 
our cars in Cumberland (or optionally Frostburg) and getting shuttled back on 
Sunday (I will explain why in a moment).

WV is located in Ohiopyle. PA just off the trail.  As we pass through Ohiopyle 
on Sunday (Apr 22), we CAN opt to use WV to shuttle us up to Fallingwater, IF 
folks would like to take a tour.  The cost would be
$25 per van (from WV HQ), which adds only $2 per person.  I have sent in an 
inquiry to the Fallingwater people requesting a group tour rate (normally $22 
individually).  We'll see if they can accommodate a group of 25 for the Noon 
time slot; THEN it's up to us to decide whether we'd like to include this tour 
or not.  Another option would be to have a nice, relaxing lunch in Ohiopyle.  
I'd like your thoughts, please.

Next up will be a decision on lodging and shuttle options.  The WV folks made a 
pretty good case for leaving our cars in Cumberland MD, citing better parking 
options, and actually by leaving cars in Cumberland, another advantage would be 
to allow late arrivals on Friday night (or even Saturday morning), by not 
having to pre-shuttle at a predetermined time.  Moreover, we can check in with 
WV at Ohiopyle on Sunday, and provide a pretty accurate time estimate for when 
we'll need pickup in Connellsville, which is 17 miles down river.  The 
disadvantage to this is that it tacks on additional time and distance for our 
friends coming from the North.  But Sunday will be a shorter day, and I'd 
anticipate arriving in Connellsville around 3, putting us back in Cumberland by 
around 5 PM.

For those who would prefer to start in Frostburg (which is 16 miles up trail 
from Cumberland), this would give you a later start on Sat AM (while you wait 
for the rally to catch up) and it would spare you 16 miles of additional 
climbing (albeit at a gradual 1% grade or less).
I'm sure we can convince the WV crew to drop people in Frostburg on the way 
back into Cumberland on Sunday, but they may tack on a small surcharge.  
Another option for those wishing to start from Frostburg on Saturday would be 
to arrive in Cumberland during the day on Friday, leaving your car in 
Cumberland, then riding 16 miles to Frostburg "up the climb" to a hotel in 
Frostburg... then you can "sleep in" on Sat while the rest of us huff and puff 
our way up to meet you.

Finally, for lodging options in Confluence, I would strongly recommend 
reserving the Paddlers Lane Retreat guest house, which can accommodate at least 
a dozen, and costs about $425 a night (which is a bargain if we fill it).  
Here's a link to their site - http://www.paddlerslane.com/id9.html.

There are other B&B accommodations that folks can make on their own, with 
prices and quality of accommodations varying; Here's the link to Google maps 
that lists and shows where these lodging choices are:
http://tinyurl.com/6wj6bgq  You can decide.

SO WHAT I AM ASKING FROM THOSE INTERESTED IN ATTENDING RIV RALLY EAST
2012 INCLUDES:

- As soon as possible, a verbal commitment to attend (and I may request a 
deposit for the shuttle and lodging (if I book the Paddlers Guest House).
- A lodging preference, either:  A. I would like to stay with the masses in the 
Paddlers Lane Guest House (if avail), and although I am guaranteed a bed, it 
may not be a queen bed, we'll draw straws...  or B. I would like to make my own 
lodging arrangements.
- Preferred starting point; Cumberland, MD (62 miles to Confluence on Day 1, 
approx the first 25 miles are gradual uphill) vs Frostburg, MD
(47 miles to Confluence on Day 1, approx the first 10 miles are gradual 
uphill).  And for those preferring Frostburg, do you need to A. Park in 
Frostburg or B. Park in Cumberland and ride to Frostburg ahead of the Rally.
- A (Yes/No) vote on a Fallingwater tour - Assuming we shuttle via bus, and 
take a Noon tour... Figure 1-2 hours total, and will cost approx $20 per person.

Thanks, this information will greatly help me plan the logistics.
Later this evening I will provide a list of available hotel choices for 
Cumberland and Frostburg, which folks can opt to stay at Fr

[RBW] Re: Extreme Exercize

[Beth H]

Heavens, no!
Go ahead and race.
If you're concerned about extreme efforts, do what I often do and
finish DFL.
When I do this I see the beautiful absurdity of it all and end my
evenings laughing out loud.
Works every time.
Beth

On Jan 25, 9:01 pm, Manuel Acosta 
wrote:
> Awww.. So does that me I can't start racing cyclocross now? I was
> looking forward on hellish training rides, that make me want to throw
> up...
>
> On Jan 25, 5:29 pm, Michael Hechmer  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > A while back the Riv Reader published an article challenging the benefits
> > of ultra endurance events.  With that in mind, I offer this research report:
>
> >http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness/archive/2012/01/25/cardio-ma...
>
> > I have to admit, I have long since gotten over any urge to do anything that
> > smacks of "training", so perhaps this appeals to my preconceived desires.
>
> > blessings,
> > michael

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Re: [RBW] Bay Area Travel/Biking - any place

[Robert F. Harrison]

On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 4:52 AM, René Sterental  wrote:

> Robert!
>
> I'll be in Honolulu from 5/4-5/9 and will be taking my BIke Friday Pocket
> Llama with me. I was planning in calling in you... Oh well...
>
> Can you recommend any good rides?


Wow, I'm sorry we'll miss each other.

Yes, there two major rides here on the island, clockwise and
counter-clockwise. :-)

It really depends on how much time you have and how much distance you'd
like to cover. I don't know how much interest everyone on the list has in
rides on Oahu so we can continue privately but there are somethings to
note...

We had a decent bus system and all buses have space for two bikes. Thus if
you want to bus to a start location, or back from the end of a longer ride
it's possible (and I do it all the time).

The most scenic routes are on the windward and north shores not in
Honolulu, though exploring the city on bike is easy and the waterfront is
very bike-able.

If you feel up to it, climbing Tantalus is a decent challenge (and lovely).
Here's a link to our steepest climbs in case you are so inclined (ouch):
http://www.hbl.org/content/oahus-steepest-climbs

We can also do flat (Pearl Harbor bike path skirting the edge of the water
most of the way around).

My favorite bits:

1. Honolulu waterfront (I do this more or less daily) - short, add around
Diamond Head for even more fun and views
2. Honolulu to Makapuu lookout (
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mgps-bob/3838367751/)
3. Kahaluu to Haleiwa - normally I just ride Honolulu to Haleiwa and take
the bus back, but at 80 miles it's all day when you toss in lunch at Uncle
Bobo's in Kaaawa.

Just to keep this Riv worthy, I've ridden all of this (except Tantulus) on
my Quickbeam without stopping to change gears, even the hills and there are
some (all told about 2500 feet of gain - not much but uphill into the wind
at Makapuu is...um...interesting).

If you let me know off the list how much time you have I can make specific
suggesting and let you know where to startt. Indeed I've probably mapped it
with gps and can give you the links.

Aloha and again, sorry we'll miss each other. I was going to see what you
were up to while I'm in the Bay Area as well. :-)

Bob




>
> René
>
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-- 
Robert Harrison
rfharri...@gmail.com
statrix.com

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Re: [RBW] Extreme Exercize

[robert zeidler]

Cycling, while I love as much as any activety, and certainly more than
work, is only one of the things I want to do in life.

On Thursday, January 26, 2012, Patrick in VT  wrote:
> On Jan 26, 10:42 am, robert zeidler  wrote:
>
>  > Just a matter if time until we have extreme bowling.
>
> Another good point.  What is driving people to the "extreme,"
> especially amateur athletes?   Of course, it's all relative - but I
> think for many amateur/recreational athletes, once the sense of
> accomplishment that came from completing an endurance event (let's say
> a marathon) becomes stale or commonplace (now that it is fairly common
> to see people walking large parts of marathons), they want to push
> harder for a PR or go farther to regain that sense of accomplishment.
> I have no evidence of this, but the current boom with triathlon and
> "extreme" (in the Mt. Dew/X-games sense of the word) endurance events,
> like the Tough Mudder, seem to be a direct result of events like a
> marathon becoming too average.  there's no cachet to it anymore.  so
> they go bigger, and that's a slippery slope.  it's really pretty ego-
> centric.
>
> like most things, i think there's a healthy balance.  it's good to
> have goals.  challenge ourselves a little, or even a lot.   competing,
> even at the recreational/amateur level, can be a very motivating,
> healthy experience for people of all ages.  I also think there is a
> misconception about "training" -  the athlete the exercises with the
> intent to compete can be said to "train," but it's just exercise.  in
> other words, anybody who enjoys doing any kind of aerobic exercise for
> more than 30mins is training.  we can't go out and enjoy a couple
> hours on our favorite roads without maintaining some aerobic
> fitness.   and anybody who wants to improve their fitness - maybe be a
> little stronger on the hills or turn a 15mile ride into a 30mile ride
> - is training.  competitive athletes just exercise a little
> differently.  and i bet a lot people would be surprised at what a
> structured "training" program looks for a competitive amateur
> cyclist .. .. it's not killing yourself everyday or working so hard
> that you want to throw up.  far from it.
>
> --
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"RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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[RBW] Re: Extreme Exercize

[Esteban]

I absolutely love riding randonees.  Sure, it hurts, and sure negative
thoughts creep into one's head - but that what makes them adventures.
You meet your demons (at your own pace - within a generous time limit)
and defeat them.  Its hard to explain - I'm certainly not doing a good
job at it.

But one of the reasons I enjoy it is that I never train for
randonneuring.  "Training" is a great way to ruin something fun. If I
can ride a century now and then, I can do a 200K.  If I can do a 200K,
then a 300K and 400K are totally possible (that's my limit so far).
Its mostly about hanging on.

Best of all, you get to spend a whole day on the bike. I've done
randonees at a relatively relaxed pace, spending time at controls with
coffee, soup, and usually good company. I've also tried to hustle.  On
those rides, I almost always go into "limp-home mode" at one time or
another.  Sensible gearing helps with that - and there's always,
*always* a second, third, or fourth wind.

All this being said, cyclotouring is by far my favorite kind of riding
besides everyday wandering.  It just takes a bit more time and money.

Esteban
San Diego, Calif.

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[RBW] Re: Extreme Exercize

[Patrick in VT]

On Jan 26, 10:42 am, robert zeidler  wrote:

 > Just a matter if time until we have extreme bowling.

Another good point.  What is driving people to the "extreme,"
especially amateur athletes?   Of course, it's all relative - but I
think for many amateur/recreational athletes, once the sense of
accomplishment that came from completing an endurance event (let's say
a marathon) becomes stale or commonplace (now that it is fairly common
to see people walking large parts of marathons), they want to push
harder for a PR or go farther to regain that sense of accomplishment.
I have no evidence of this, but the current boom with triathlon and
"extreme" (in the Mt. Dew/X-games sense of the word) endurance events,
like the Tough Mudder, seem to be a direct result of events like a
marathon becoming too average.  there's no cachet to it anymore.  so
they go bigger, and that's a slippery slope.  it's really pretty ego-
centric.

like most things, i think there's a healthy balance.  it's good to
have goals.  challenge ourselves a little, or even a lot.   competing,
even at the recreational/amateur level, can be a very motivating,
healthy experience for people of all ages.  I also think there is a
misconception about "training" -  the athlete the exercises with the
intent to compete can be said to "train," but it's just exercise.  in
other words, anybody who enjoys doing any kind of aerobic exercise for
more than 30mins is training.  we can't go out and enjoy a couple
hours on our favorite roads without maintaining some aerobic
fitness.   and anybody who wants to improve their fitness - maybe be a
little stronger on the hills or turn a 15mile ride into a 30mile ride
- is training.  competitive athletes just exercise a little
differently.  and i bet a lot people would be surprised at what a
structured "training" program looks for a competitive amateur
cyclist .. .. it's not killing yourself everyday or working so hard
that you want to throw up.  far from it.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Trouble loading Rivbike.com

[Tim McNamara]

There are many factors involved that may have nothing whatsoever to do with 
Riv's site or server- including how many jumps between servers there are from 
you to Riv's Web server and the latency of each of them, the quality of the 
copper or fiber between the servers, network congestion, and issues with one's 
own computer and browser loading and displaying the content (e.g., what's 
cached and what is not).

On Jan 26, 2012, at 8:48 AM, tdusky wrote:

> The new site is complex and loads slowly, it always has, I am on a
> fast mac with high speed internet.
> It sometimes hangs and I need to refresh to get it to load.
> That's the price of a cool looking site?
> Shouldn't be
> 
> Tom Duksy
> Huntington Woods MI
> 
> On Jan 26, 2:24 am, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>> The home page isn't loading well on both computers (and a smartphone) I've
>> used today. I can still click on the categories, but there's no home page
>> pic or featured products. Is anyone else experiencing this?

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Re: [RBW] What kind of mustache wax to use?

[jimD]

One thing missing in this discussion about mustache wax (MW), has been taste.
I used to use the stuff but could never find any that appealed to my sense of 
taste.
I'm still running a mustache and would like to know which wax is the best 
tasting.
I often lick my chops when I'm riding aggressively and pass other riders, 
this happens far less often these days, but nevertheless.
-JimD

On Jan 25, 2012, at 2:16 PM, jinxed wrote:

> I will second the Firemans. First off, it's a great product and I will agree 
> with every point made by MobileBill. My facial hair grows straight as an 
> arrow is does NOT want to comply to any efforts otherwise...till I used 
> Firemans. Excuse my french...but the shit holds. Secondly, they are cool 
> people. I placed my order over the phone and it seems to me they are super 
> down home good people. We chatted up all manner of mustachery, tips, tricks, 
> and fun. If and when I grow back the lip rug, I have my tin of Firemans 
> waiting.
> 
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Re: [RBW] Extreme Exercize

[René Sterental]

Where are those references to chocolate as bowel cancer prevention?

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Re: [RBW] Extreme Exercize

[robert zeidler]

Where bird watchers compete to observe the most new (to them) birds in a
given period. I think there was even a movie about it.

Likewise, the Ironbutt Assoc has taken an elegant form of travel,
motorcycle touring, and turned it into an extreme endurance event, The
IronButt Rally, where riders travel 11,000 miles in 10 days, picking up
various bonus points along the way, in a timed event.

Just a matter if time until we have extreme bowling.



On Thursday, January 26, 2012, jimD  wrote:
> Robert,
> Uh, what's this 'competitive birding' thingy?
> -JimD
> On Jan 26, 2012, at 3:04 AM, robert zeidler wrote:
>
> And that's no knock on Jan. Just the extreme ethos.
> It's the same thinking that gave us competitive birding. Taking an
elegant pastime and turning it into an endurance test.
>
> On Thursday, January 26, 2012, Manuel Acosta 
wrote:
>> Awww.. So does that me I can't start racing cyclocross now? I was
>> looking forward on hellish training rides, that make me want to throw
>> up...
>>
>> On Jan 25, 5:29 pm, Michael Hechmer  wrote:
>>> A while back the Riv Reader published an article challenging the
benefits
>>> of ultra endurance events.  With that in mind, I offer this research
report:
>>>
>>> http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness/archive/2012/01/25/cardio-ma...
>>>
>>> I have to admit, I have long since gotten over any urge to do anything
that
>>> smacks of "training", so perhaps this appeals to my preconceived
desires.
>>>
>>> blessings,
>>> michael
>>
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Re: [RBW] Extreme Exercize

[jimD]

Robert,

Uh, what's this 'competitive birding' thingy?

-JimD

On Jan 26, 2012, at 3:04 AM, robert zeidler wrote:

> And that's no knock on Jan. Just the extreme ethos. 
> It's the same thinking that gave us competitive birding. Taking an elegant 
> pastime and turning it into an endurance test. 
> 
> On Thursday, January 26, 2012, Manuel Acosta  
> wrote:
> > Awww.. So does that me I can't start racing cyclocross now? I was
> > looking forward on hellish training rides, that make me want to throw
> > up...
> >
> > On Jan 25, 5:29 pm, Michael Hechmer  wrote:
> >> A while back the Riv Reader published an article challenging the benefits
> >> of ultra endurance events.  With that in mind, I offer this research 
> >> report:
> >>
> >> http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness/archive/2012/01/25/cardio-ma...
> >>
> >> I have to admit, I have long since gotten over any urge to do anything that
> >> smacks of "training", so perhaps this appeals to my preconceived desires.
> >>
> >> blessings,
> >> michael
> >
> > --
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> >
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RE: [RBW] Re: Riv Rally East 2012

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

- As soon as possible, a verbal commitment to attend (and I may request a 
deposit for the shuttle and lodging (if I book the Paddlers Guest House).  Sam 
Allingham and Tom Allingham are in; one additional rider is a distinct 
possibility.

- A lodging preference, either:  A. I would like to stay with the masses in the 
Paddlers Lane Guest House (if avail), and although I am guaranteed a bed, it 
may not be a queen bed, we'll draw straws...  or B. I would like to make my own 
lodging arrangements.  Option A preferable for us.

- A starting point; Cumberland, MD (62 miles to Confluence on Day 1, approx the 
first 25 miles are gradual uphill) vs Frostburg, MD  We'd prefer Cumberland.
(47 miles to Confluence on Day 1, approx the first 10 miles are gradual 
uphill).  And for those preferring Frostburg, do you need to A. Park in 
Frostburg or B. Park in Cumberland and ride to Frostburg ahead of the Rally.

- A (Yes/No) vote on a Fallingwater tour - Assuming we shuttle via bus, and 
take a Noon tour... Figure 1-2 hours total, and will cost approx $20 per 
person.  We'd love to do the Fallingwater side trip

-Original Message-
From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Montclair BobbyB
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 6:58 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch
Subject: [RBW] Re: Riv Rally East 2012

Shuttle Update:  Good news... Wilderness Voyageurs (WV) provided me with what I 
consider a very reasonable rate for 2 vans (to shuttle approx 25 passengers 
plus bikes and gear).  They have a large rack on top of one van, and a box 
trailer for the balance of the bikes and gear.  The price quote is $415, which 
translates to roughly $17 per person (if we have 25), or $28 per person (if we 
have 15), etc... you get the idea.  We pay for the vans and trailer, regardless 
of the number of people.  Either way I think that's a very reasonable price 
(compared to other quotes for large buses).  I would like to propose leaving 
our cars in Cumberland (or optionally Frostburg) and getting shuttled back on 
Sunday (I will explain why in a moment).

WV is located in Ohiopyle. PA just off the trail.  As we pass through Ohiopyle 
on Sunday (Apr 22), we CAN opt to use WV to shuttle us up to Fallingwater, IF 
folks would like to take a tour.  The cost would be
$25 per van (from WV HQ), which adds only $2 per person.  I have sent in an 
inquiry to the Fallingwater people requesting a group tour rate (normally $22 
individually).  We'll see if they can accommodate a group of 25 for the Noon 
time slot; THEN it's up to us to decide whether we'd like to include this tour 
or not.  Another option would be to have a nice, relaxing lunch in Ohiopyle.  
I'd like your thoughts, please.

Next up will be a decision on lodging and shuttle options.  The WV folks made a 
pretty good case for leaving our cars in Cumberland MD, citing better parking 
options, and actually by leaving cars in Cumberland, another advantage would be 
to allow late arrivals on Friday night (or even Saturday morning), by not 
having to pre-shuttle at a predetermined time.  Moreover, we can check in with 
WV at Ohiopyle on Sunday, and provide a pretty accurate time estimate for when 
we'll need pickup in Connellsville, which is 17 miles down river.  The 
disadvantage to this is that it tacks on additional time and distance for our 
friends coming from the North.  But Sunday will be a shorter day, and I'd 
anticipate arriving in Connellsville around 3, putting us back in Cumberland by 
around 5 PM.

For those who would prefer to start in Frostburg (which is 16 miles up trail 
from Cumberland), this would give you a later start on Sat AM (while you wait 
for the rally to catch up) and it would spare you 16 miles of additional 
climbing (albeit at a gradual 1% grade or less).
I'm sure we can convince the WV crew to drop people in Frostburg on the way 
back into Cumberland on Sunday, but they may tack on a small surcharge.  
Another option for those wishing to start from Frostburg on Saturday would be 
to arrive in Cumberland during the day on Friday, leaving your car in 
Cumberland, then riding 16 miles to Frostburg "up the climb" to a hotel in 
Frostburg... then you can "sleep in" on Sat while the rest of us huff and puff 
our way up to meet you.

Finally, for lodging options in Confluence, I would strongly recommend 
reserving the Paddlers Lane Retreat guest house, which can accommodate at least 
a dozen, and costs about $425 a night (which is a bargain if we fill it).  
Here's a link to their site - http://www.paddlerslane.com/id9.html.

There are other B&B accommodations that folks can make on their own, with 
prices and quality of accommodations varying; Here's the link to Google maps 
that lists and shows where these lodging choices are:
http://tinyurl.com/6wj6bgq  You can decide.

SO WHAT I AM ASKING FROM THOSE INTERESTED IN ATTENDING RIV RALLY EAST
2012 INCLUDES:

- As soon as possible, a verbal commitment to attend 

Re: [RBW] Extreme Exercize

[robert zeidler]

...and when I'm riding in the great State of Vermont, it's always worth the
work.

On Thursday, January 26, 2012, Patrick in VT  wrote:
> On Jan 25, 9:06 pm, robert zeidler  wrote:
>
>> But it takes really sick
>> efforts to make one, well, really sick.
>
> that's a very good point.  most folks will never approach the training
> levels of elite athletes - their "training" is very different than
> recreational athletes.  most folks can't spend 10 minutes near their
> anaerobic threshold, let alone 3+ hours like elite endurance athletes
> commonly do.  there's a world of difference here, and frankly it's
> just not something most of us need to be concerned about.
>
> I'd add that while high intensity (anaerobic) exercise definitely has
> it's benefits, it's a sure fire way to get injured if one doesn't
> prime the body for those efforts.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Every Day Carry - Here's Mine, What's Yours?

[Tim McNamara]

For commuters especially, something like these are good to have along.  I find 
that teh latex gloves aren't tough enough for repairs, but the nitrile ones 
that can be bought at Target by the box work better.


On Jan 26, 2012, at 8:38 AM, stevep33 wrote:

> latex gloves (for really messy repairs)

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[RBW] Re: Extreme Exercize

[Patrick in VT]

On Jan 25, 9:06 pm, robert zeidler  wrote:

> But it takes really sick
> efforts to make one, well, really sick.

that's a very good point.  most folks will never approach the training
levels of elite athletes - their "training" is very different than
recreational athletes.  most folks can't spend 10 minutes near their
anaerobic threshold, let alone 3+ hours like elite endurance athletes
commonly do.  there's a world of difference here, and frankly it's
just not something most of us need to be concerned about.

I'd add that while high intensity (anaerobic) exercise definitely has
it's benefits, it's a sure fire way to get injured if one doesn't
prime the body for those efforts.

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Re: [RBW] Bay Area Travel/Biking - any place

[René Sterental]

Robert!

I'll be in Honolulu from 5/4-5/9 and will be taking my BIke Friday Pocket
Llama with me. I was planning in calling in you... Oh well...

Can you recommend any good rides?

René

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[RBW] Re: Trouble loading Rivbike.com

[tdusky]

I spoke (or wrote too soon)—I just checked and it loaded fast.
Maybe they got a faster server or cleaned up the code.
Sorry

Tom Dusky

On Jan 26, 9:48 am, tdusky  wrote:
> The new site is complex and loads slowly, it always has, I am on a
> fast mac with high speed internet.
> It sometimes hangs and I need to refresh to get it to load.
> That's the price of a cool looking site?
> Shouldn't be
>
> Tom Duksy
> Huntington Woods MI
>
> On Jan 26, 2:24 am, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > The home page isn't loading well on both computers (and a smartphone) I've
> > used today. I can still click on the categories, but there's no home page
> > pic or featured products. Is anyone else experiencing this?

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[RBW] Re: Trouble loading Rivbike.com

[tdusky]

The new site is complex and loads slowly, it always has, I am on a
fast mac with high speed internet.
It sometimes hangs and I need to refresh to get it to load.
That's the price of a cool looking site?
Shouldn't be

Tom Duksy
Huntington Woods MI

On Jan 26, 2:24 am, Joe Bernard  wrote:
> The home page isn't loading well on both computers (and a smartphone) I've
> used today. I can still click on the categories, but there's no home page
> pic or featured products. Is anyone else experiencing this?

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[RBW] Re: Every Day Carry - Here's Mine, What's Yours?

[stevep33]

Here it is:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27988383@N06/6765639441/in/photostream

It all goes in the BaileyWorks bag:
wallet
iphone
Lezyne pump
cable lock

The repair bag contains:
Lezyne multi-tool
spare tube
levers
patch kit
tire boot
spare chain links
latex gloves (for really messy repairs)

Seems like a lot now that I look at it, but I use it all.

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[RBW] Re: Is the San Marcos a true Rivendell?

[Bill M.]

The only Rivendells that bear the name are the customs.  The rest are
bikes that are designed by Grant, manufactured to spec and sold
through Riv directly or through a small dealer network.  .  The San
Marcos differs from the rest mostly in how it is distributed.

If the bike fits you, suits your needs and you can afford it, what
else do you need to know?

Bill


On Jan 24, 2:52 pm, Pat  wrote:
> Hi, Folks,
>
> I am an "old guy" (almost 64) and just finished my second year of cycling.
> I put in 4200 miles last year on a carbon frame bike which I like, but I'm
> looking around for something more comfortable for longer rides and light
> touring. I ran across the Rivendells a couple of months ago. I like what
> I'm reading and I'm esp interested in the Sam Hillborne and San Marcos.
>
> Do you Riv owners consider the San Marcos a true Rivendell? Can I expect
> the same quality ride, etc. from the San Marcos as I would the other Riv
> bikes? (I'm asking because it doesn't bear the Riv name.)
>
> Thanks in advance for your help.

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Re: [RBW] Extreme Exercize

[Lyle Bogart]

Ooops!  I had intended to include this link:

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/diseased-heart-or-athlete-s-heart-sometimes-they-look-strangely-similar

Very clear and concise, I thought. Good links within, too.

lyle

On 26 January 2012 07:35, Lyle Bogart  wrote:

> Thanks for posting that, Michael.
>
> There's indeed a growing body of evidence that strongly suggests or links
> high endurance activities to a number of cardiac/cardiovascular pathologies
> with atrial fibrillation being the most prevalent pathology. Interesting
> there are some studies which suggest the very low-resting heart-rate of
> highly endurance-trained folks with the development of Afib.
>
> I've been unable to find any studies linking interval-type activities or
> training to similar pathologies.
>
> Long ago I gave up on routinely doing long-endurance training or
> activities. I prefer the interval form of training, mostly incorporating
> resistance training and plyometrtics. On the bike, if my intent is more
> "training" than going for a "nice ride," I'll take the fixed-gear for a
> whirl over some good hilly terrain. Interestingly, this type of training or
> activity (interval) always leaves me feeling fresher than a more
> traditional cardio (steady-state) activity.
>
> Cheers!
>
> lyle
>
> On 26 January 2012 06:04, robert zeidler  wrote:
>
>> And that's no knock on Jan. Just the extreme ethos.
>> It's the same thinking that gave us competitive birding. Taking an
>> elegant pastime and turning it into an endurance test.
>>
>> On Thursday, January 26, 2012, Manuel Acosta <
>> manueljohnaco...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > Awww.. So does that me I can't start racing cyclocross now? I was
>> > looking forward on hellish training rides, that make me want to throw
>> > up...
>> >
>> > On Jan 25, 5:29 pm, Michael Hechmer  wrote:
>> >> A while back the Riv Reader published an article challenging the
>> benefits
>> >> of ultra endurance events.  With that in mind, I offer this research
>> report:
>> >>
>> >> http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness/archive/2012/01/25/cardio-ma.
>> ..
>> >>
>> >> I have to admit, I have long since gotten over any urge to do anything
>> that
>> >> smacks of "training", so perhaps this appeals to my preconceived
>> desires.
>> >>
>> >> blessings,
>> >> michael
>> >
>> > --
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>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> lyle f bogart dpt
>
> 156 bradford rd
> wiscasset, me 04578
> 207.882.6494
> 206.794.6937
>
>


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207.882.6494
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Re: [RBW] Extreme Exercize

[Lyle Bogart]

Thanks for posting that, Michael.

There's indeed a growing body of evidence that strongly suggests or links
high endurance activities to a number of cardiac/cardiovascular pathologies
with atrial fibrillation being the most prevalent pathology. Interesting
there are some studies which suggest the very low-resting heart-rate of
highly endurance-trained folks with the development of Afib.

I've been unable to find any studies linking interval-type activities or
training to similar pathologies.

Long ago I gave up on routinely doing long-endurance training or
activities. I prefer the interval form of training, mostly incorporating
resistance training and plyometrtics. On the bike, if my intent is more
"training" than going for a "nice ride," I'll take the fixed-gear for a
whirl over some good hilly terrain. Interestingly, this type of training or
activity (interval) always leaves me feeling fresher than a more
traditional cardio (steady-state) activity.

Cheers!

lyle

On 26 January 2012 06:04, robert zeidler  wrote:

> And that's no knock on Jan. Just the extreme ethos.
> It's the same thinking that gave us competitive birding. Taking an elegant
> pastime and turning it into an endurance test.
>
> On Thursday, January 26, 2012, Manuel Acosta 
> wrote:
> > Awww.. So does that me I can't start racing cyclocross now? I was
> > looking forward on hellish training rides, that make me want to throw
> > up...
> >
> > On Jan 25, 5:29 pm, Michael Hechmer  wrote:
> >> A while back the Riv Reader published an article challenging the
> benefits
> >> of ultra endurance events.  With that in mind, I offer this research
> report:
> >>
> >> http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness/archive/2012/01/25/cardio-ma.
> ..
> >>
> >> I have to admit, I have long since gotten over any urge to do anything
> that
> >> smacks of "training", so perhaps this appeals to my preconceived
> desires.
> >>
> >> blessings,
> >> michael
> >
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206.794.6937

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[RBW] Trouble loading Rivbike.com

[Peter Pesce]

They seem to be missing the big picture ;) but otherwise site loads fine on my 
iPhone 4S. 

Pete on CT

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Re: [RBW] Extreme Exercize

[robert zeidler]

And that's no knock on Jan. Just the extreme ethos.
It's the same thinking that gave us competitive birding. Taking an elegant
pastime and turning it into an endurance test.

On Thursday, January 26, 2012, Manuel Acosta 
wrote:
> Awww.. So does that me I can't start racing cyclocross now? I was
> looking forward on hellish training rides, that make me want to throw
> up...
>
> On Jan 25, 5:29 pm, Michael Hechmer  wrote:
>> A while back the Riv Reader published an article challenging the benefits
>> of ultra endurance events.  With that in mind, I offer this research
report:
>>
>> http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness/archive/2012/01/25/cardio-ma...
>>
>> I have to admit, I have long since gotten over any urge to do anything
that
>> smacks of "training", so perhaps this appeals to my preconceived desires.
>>
>> blessings,
>> michael
>
> --
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"RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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[RBW] Re: Bay Area Travel/Biking - any place

[Philip Williamson]

My two cents - give yourself a half-day leeway with Amtrak. I took the
train to NAHBS in San Jose in 2006, and almost missed the show:
http://www.biketinker.com/2007/bike-art/nahbs-autograph-hound/

 Philip

Philip Williamson
www.biketinker.com

On Jan 24, 9:37 am, JPTwins  wrote:
> This has been a great thread!  I will also be traveling from Boston to San
> Francisco for the first week of March.  I built up a bike last year and
> shipped it to my parents' place in San Jose.  Always nice to have a bike
> there!
>
> I'll be taking Amtrak to NAHBS in Sacramento and then riding my bike back
> in two stages (Sac->Petaluma, Petaluma->Marin->SF).  Beyond that, I'll take
> either CalTrain or BART to get back to the SouthBay and maybe try to get to
> Riv HQ or Jintesha Studio in Berkeley (my college stomping grounds).
>
> My conference will be in santa clara, and I'll be bike commuting from
> Campbell.  Anyone have any suggestions for South Bay places to check out?
>
> thanks again for the aforementioned tips.
>
> Geoff
> Boston, MA

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