[RBW] Re: 1x9 setup "because I felt like it"

[ted]

Which in turn is a gateway to fixed.

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[RBW] Re: 2.35" Knobbies on a Parallel TT Bombadil?

[ted]

I have a 52 cm first gen Bombadil. I am using Quasi-Motos on it now and I 
think they fit well and work well at the pressure I run (usually low to mid 
20s).
As I recall it, when I first mounted them I over inflated them to help with 
seating and the front touched something. Probably the front tab on my Nitto 
mini front rack.
Before I bought the frame at RBW I test rode one that I think had a 
Neo-Moto on the front and a Quasi-Moto on the rear. So I think RBW would 
approve that.
I don't think I would want to go bigger than the Quasi-Motos personally. In 
fact when they wear out I may try going down in size and try the BG 
Rock-n-Road.
Though it seems most folks are looking to fit in the biggest rubber they 
can. I think the Neo-Moto's are about as big as will fit.
The second gen style Bombadils have wider crowns and probably other changes 
that allow for larger tires.

On Monday, February 23, 2015 at 12:27:33 PM UTC-8, Wildcat96 wrote:
>
> Do the 650b Smart Sam's run true to the listed 2.1"/54mm size or do they 
> run a little smaller like most Schwalbe tires? I measured the Quasi-Motos 
> brand new at max pressure on 23mm Synergy rims.  They were about 
> 51.5mm-slightly larger than the listed size of 2.0"/51mm and they will 
> probably stretch a little over time.  They fit just about perfect, but I 
> could probably go about 2mm larger.  My Bombadil is a 52cm size and I 
> believe one of the first batch built in October 2008 according to the 
> serial number.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Paul Brakes -- Wow!

[ted]

Zach,

I thought your tone was fine. Sorry if mine was off. I didn't mean to come 
off snarky or offended or anything. 

Regards
Ted

On Monday, February 23, 2015 at 7:41:02 AM UTC-8, Zach A wrote:
>
> Thanks Ted,
>
> Sorry for the tone.  Maybe pot brownies and internet forum physics lessons 
> are things I shouldn't mix?
>
> On Saturday, February 21, 2015 at 5:04:47 PM UTC-7, ted wrote:
>>
>> Z,
>>
>> Thanks for this exposition. I understand this approach. The downside of 
>> it is that to get it right you must do some trig to keep track of the 
>> variation in the tangent force magnitude. The tension in the straddle wire 
>> increase the flatter it gets. Of course you never get near the theoretical 
>> infinity but it does increase, and to get the right answer from your 
>> approach you have to keep track of that and balance it correctly with the 
>> variations of alignment with your axis tangent.
>>
>> Please consider another approach that I think is simpler, particularly if 
>> you want qualitative insight.
>> Keep the other half of the brake in the back of your mind. It's important 
>> because it balances the side forces that are inherent in any feasible 
>> straddle cable.
>> In stead of decomposing the cable force into axial and tangent (or 
>> perpendicular), go with up and sideways. You do this with both the straddle 
>> and the arm.
>> The vertical component of tension in the two halves of the straddle wire 
>> must balance the tension in the brake cable. Call the brake cable tension 
>> T, then the up force one each brake arm is T/2. This is true regardless of 
>> what the straddle cable height is, and that fact is what gives this 
>> approach its advantage.
>> Now unless the straddle cable is vertical there will be a side force 
>> towards the centerline of the bike. The flatter the cable the larger the 
>> force.
>> To get the torque about the pivot post, decompose the brake arm axis into 
>> sideways and upwards components (dx and dy if you like). The net torque is 
>> the sum of the up force times the sideways offset plus the side force times 
>> the upwards offset. 
>> The part of the torque from the up force times the sideways offset does 
>> not change when you alter the straddle wire height.
>> The part of the torque from the side force times the sideways offset 
>> always helps and always get larger when you lower the straddle wire.
>> Q.E.D.
>>
>> Furthermore, if you look at the sideways and upwards offset lengths of 
>> different brakes in light of what you know about the forces induced on them 
>> by the straddle cable you get an accurate intuitive sense of what is going 
>> on.
>> With 720s or Neo-Retros the sideways offset is sizable and the vertical 
>> offset is small. Because of this these brakes are relatively insensitive to 
>> changes in straddle cable height. 
>> With low profile brakes like the Paul Touring model the sizes of the 
>> sideways and upward offsets are about reversed. They need the sideways 
>> force from the flatter straddle cable to generate significant torque, and 
>> the torque you get depends quite a bit on the straddle height.
>>
>> High profile cantilevers do not need a high straddle wire to maximise 
>> leverage, on the contrary raising the straddle wire always reduces the 
>> leverage.
>> High profile cantilevers need high straddle wires to clear the 
>> tire/fender/rack. Luckily the leverage they get is relatively insensitive 
>> to straddle wire height so raising the straddle to clear whatever you need 
>> to clear is not a problem.
>>
>> On Friday, February 20, 2015 at 10:42:22 PM UTC-8, Z wrote:
>>>
>>> Ted,
>>>
>>> Envision one half of a cantilever brake setup.  There is an axis between 
>>> the points where the straddle cable attaches and the brake pivots.  We'll 
>>> call this The Axis.  Now envision a force vector along the straddle cable. 
>>>  If you conceptually break down that vector into components which are 1) 
>>> perpendicular to The Axis and 2) parallel to The Axis, you will realize 
>>> that any force parallel to The Axis will be working against the rigidity of 
>>> the cantilever brake mount.  So, you really want to maximize former vector 
>>> component... that is, by applying the straddle cable's force perpendicular 
>>> (90 degrees) to The Axis.  Of course, you want to be maximizing this force 
>>> vector as the brake pad is touching the rim.  
>>>
>>> It's true that you can apply a great deal of tension to

Re: [RBW] Re: Paul Brakes -- Wow!

[ted]

Hey Michael,

Thanks for the nice clarification. I think I get what you mean now.
I would never dream of asking you to move your straddle cable. What works 
works and that's an irrefutable tautology. The explanation or rational 
about why it works, now thats where I have been know to dive badly down the 
rabbit hole and wind up in purgatory. 

regards
ted

On Saturday, February 21, 2015 at 8:22:15 AM UTC-8, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> Sorry for the confusion, I certainly mis wrote that and maybe even mis 
> thought it. My understanding, in a less technical way, is what Ted wrote. 
>  In my simple minded way, here's how I envision it.  The longer a lever is 
> from the fulcrum the more mechanical advantage it has, but that also 
> requires moving the lever an ever greater distance across an arch in order 
> to move the other end of the lever.  When a brake lever has too much 
> mechanical advantage it can bottom out before the brake pads have moved 
> enough to stop the rim.  That's what was wrong with the Shimano integrated 
> levers and cantis I once had.  They just needed to pull too much cable to 
> create stopping power.  
>
> A cable 90 degrees to the end of the brake arm should in theory best 
> transmit upward energy, but since the arm pivots in an arch and the 
> straddle is in the center, that is not possible.  but it would seem to me 
> that the closer you are to that through the entire line of brake arm 
>  travel the better off you will be.  The touring cantis are already at 
> about 45 degrees so setting the cable closer to 90 would require a lower 
> straddle for optimum power.
>
> This explains, to me at least, why my neo retros work best with a hi 
> straddle and confirms Pauls recommendation of 5+ inches.
>
> I'm happy to try to relearn classical physics & geometry but I ain't moven 
> my straddle cable.
> Michael
>
> On Friday, February 20, 2015 at 9:35:52 PM UTC-5, ted wrote:
>>
>> Michael,
>>
>> I am confused.
>> Are you saying that not enough mechanical advantage causes the lever will 
>> bottom out, or that too much will?
>> Do you agree with Mark that 90 deg. gives the best stopping power, and 
>> say that 45 degrees gives the most power?
>> Are you distinguishing between "pure power" and "stopping power", and if 
>> you are how do you define them?
>> What exactly is the "hence" that makes neo retros require a higher 
>> straddle cable?
>> Could you please elaborate?
>>
>> On Friday, February 20, 2015 at 4:40:16 PM UTC-8, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>>>
>>> I too agree. Mechanical advantage is important to avoid having the lever 
>>> bottom out before the brake fully engages, but pure power will be maximized 
>>> when the straddle cable is 45 degrees to the arm.  Hence the neo retros 
>>> require a higher straddle cable than the touring cantis to maximize 
>>> stopping power.
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>> On Friday, February 20, 2015 at 5:25:28 PM UTC-5, Mark Reimer wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Deacon,
>>>>
>>>> I agree with you on this. Getting the straddle as close to 90 degrees 
>>>> has always been the position which yielded the greatest stopping power for 
>>>> me. With my neo-retro's (Aka the 'weaker' of the paul canti's) I have the 
>>>> cable long and up high, and I have enough power to lift up the back wheel 
>>>> if I really wanted. 
>>>>
>>>> Lower straddle usually results in less power, and obviously less mud 
>>>> clearance as well. 
>>>>
>>>> As I understand it, the idea is to get the cable as close to 90 degrees 
>>>> as you can WHEN the brakes are in contact with the rim. 
>>>>
>>>> To read a much more exhaustive explanation than I'm willing to 
>>>> regurgitate, take a look at BQ's great write-up on setting up canti's. 
>>>>
>>>> In the end, I'm sure we can all agree that Paul canti's are awesome. 
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 4:18 PM, ted  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Deacon,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am glad that you were able get your brakes to work the way you want. 
>>>>> I suspect you were told the opposite of what I am telling you, and that 
>>>>> you 
>>>>> understood what they were saying. Sadly they told you wrong. But happily 
>>>>> they still steered you to something that worked for you.
>>>>>
>>>>> The phrase "slushy brakes" suggest

Re: [RBW] Re: Paul Brakes -- Wow!

[ted]

Z,

Thanks for this exposition. I understand this approach. The downside of it 
is that to get it right you must do some trig to keep track of the 
variation in the tangent force magnitude. The tension in the straddle wire 
increase the flatter it gets. Of course you never get near the theoretical 
infinity but it does increase, and to get the right answer from your 
approach you have to keep track of that and balance it correctly with the 
variations of alignment with your axis tangent.

Please consider another approach that I think is simpler, particularly if 
you want qualitative insight.
Keep the other half of the brake in the back of your mind. It's important 
because it balances the side forces that are inherent in any feasible 
straddle cable.
In stead of decomposing the cable force into axial and tangent (or 
perpendicular), go with up and sideways. You do this with both the straddle 
and the arm.
The vertical component of tension in the two halves of the straddle wire 
must balance the tension in the brake cable. Call the brake cable tension 
T, then the up force one each brake arm is T/2. This is true regardless of 
what the straddle cable height is, and that fact is what gives this 
approach its advantage.
Now unless the straddle cable is vertical there will be a side force 
towards the centerline of the bike. The flatter the cable the larger the 
force.
To get the torque about the pivot post, decompose the brake arm axis into 
sideways and upwards components (dx and dy if you like). The net torque is 
the sum of the up force times the sideways offset plus the side force times 
the upwards offset. 
The part of the torque from the up force times the sideways offset does not 
change when you alter the straddle wire height.
The part of the torque from the side force times the sideways offset always 
helps and always get larger when you lower the straddle wire.
Q.E.D.

Furthermore, if you look at the sideways and upwards offset lengths of 
different brakes in light of what you know about the forces induced on them 
by the straddle cable you get an accurate intuitive sense of what is going 
on.
With 720s or Neo-Retros the sideways offset is sizable and the vertical 
offset is small. Because of this these brakes are relatively insensitive to 
changes in straddle cable height. 
With low profile brakes like the Paul Touring model the sizes of the 
sideways and upward offsets are about reversed. They need the sideways 
force from the flatter straddle cable to generate significant torque, and 
the torque you get depends quite a bit on the straddle height.

High profile cantilevers do not need a high straddle wire to maximise 
leverage, on the contrary raising the straddle wire always reduces the 
leverage.
High profile cantilevers need high straddle wires to clear the 
tire/fender/rack. Luckily the leverage they get is relatively insensitive 
to straddle wire height so raising the straddle to clear whatever you need 
to clear is not a problem.

On Friday, February 20, 2015 at 10:42:22 PM UTC-8, Z wrote:
>
> Ted,
>
> Envision one half of a cantilever brake setup.  There is an axis between 
> the points where the straddle cable attaches and the brake pivots.  We'll 
> call this The Axis.  Now envision a force vector along the straddle cable. 
>  If you conceptually break down that vector into components which are 1) 
> perpendicular to The Axis and 2) parallel to The Axis, you will realize 
> that any force parallel to The Axis will be working against the rigidity of 
> the cantilever brake mount.  So, you really want to maximize former vector 
> component... that is, by applying the straddle cable's force perpendicular 
> (90 degrees) to The Axis.  Of course, you want to be maximizing this force 
> vector as the brake pad is touching the rim.  
>
> It's true that you can apply a great deal of tension to a straight cable 
> by applying a force perpendicular to its axis.  However, the theoretical 
> infinite tension doesn't really affect braking when you consider the brake 
> pivots (and the steel frame to which they attach) resisting most of that 
> tension, which is what you would likely achieve with a high profile 
> cantilever and shallow straddle cable angle.  
>
>
> Z
>
> On Friday, February 20, 2015 at 7:35:52 PM UTC-7, ted wrote:
>>
>> Michael,
>>
>> I am confused.
>> Are you saying that not enough mechanical advantage causes the lever will 
>> bottom out, or that too much will?
>> Do you agree with Mark that 90 deg. gives the best stopping power, and 
>> say that 45 degrees gives the most power?
>> Are you distinguishing between "pure power" and "stopping power", and if 
>> you are how do you define them?
>> What exactly is the "hence" that makes neo retros require a higher 
>> straddle cable?
>

Re: [RBW] Re: Paul Brakes -- Wow!

[ted]

Michael,

I am confused.
Are you saying that not enough mechanical advantage causes the lever will 
bottom out, or that too much will?
Do you agree with Mark that 90 deg. gives the best stopping power, and say 
that 45 degrees gives the most power?
Are you distinguishing between "pure power" and "stopping power", and if 
you are how do you define them?
What exactly is the "hence" that makes neo retros require a higher straddle 
cable?
Could you please elaborate?

On Friday, February 20, 2015 at 4:40:16 PM UTC-8, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> I too agree. Mechanical advantage is important to avoid having the lever 
> bottom out before the brake fully engages, but pure power will be maximized 
> when the straddle cable is 45 degrees to the arm.  Hence the neo retros 
> require a higher straddle cable than the touring cantis to maximize 
> stopping power.
>
> Michael
>
> On Friday, February 20, 2015 at 5:25:28 PM UTC-5, Mark Reimer wrote:
>>
>> Deacon,
>>
>> I agree with you on this. Getting the straddle as close to 90 degrees has 
>> always been the position which yielded the greatest stopping power for me. 
>> With my neo-retro's (Aka the 'weaker' of the paul canti's) I have the cable 
>> long and up high, and I have enough power to lift up the back wheel if I 
>> really wanted. 
>>
>> Lower straddle usually results in less power, and obviously less mud 
>> clearance as well. 
>>
>> As I understand it, the idea is to get the cable as close to 90 degrees 
>> as you can WHEN the brakes are in contact with the rim. 
>>
>> To read a much more exhaustive explanation than I'm willing to 
>> regurgitate, take a look at BQ's great write-up on setting up canti's. 
>>
>> In the end, I'm sure we can all agree that Paul canti's are awesome. 
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 4:18 PM, ted  wrote:
>>
>>> Deacon,
>>>
>>> I am glad that you were able get your brakes to work the way you want. I 
>>> suspect you were told the opposite of what I am telling you, and that you 
>>> understood what they were saying. Sadly they told you wrong. But happily 
>>> they still steered you to something that worked for you.
>>>
>>> The phrase "slushy brakes" suggests to me low effort producing large 
>>> brake lever travel with little braking effect. If that's what you had it 
>>> was likely due to elasticity in the brake system, which is a separate thing 
>>> from leverage. If you experience that sort of thing, look for what moves 
>>> when you squeeze the lever hard after the pads hit the rim. For example, I 
>>> found the steel front cable hangers flex a lot. Replacing mine with the 
>>> aluminum ones improved the feel of my brakes significantly. Cables that 
>>> change shape as the brakes are applied can be another source of excess 
>>> travel.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, February 20, 2015 at 4:21:44 AM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Ted, et al engineer types: I happily bow to your knowledge on the 
>>>> angles and leverage, though I was told the opposite (as I understood it) 
>>>> before I made the change. Interestingly, either way, the experience went 
>>>> from slushy brakes (short saddle cable, < 90˚ intersection with the brake 
>>>> arm) and salmon pads, to passable strength except in single track steep 
>>>> descents (long saddle cable, close to 90˚ intersection with the brake 
>>>> arm). 
>>>> But that point is mute now, as the Paul's are wonderful! I look forward to 
>>>> snow-free trails so I can try them out!
>>>>
>>>> With abandon,
>>>> Patrick
>>>>
>>>  -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
>>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/5HXsqAEXrWM/unsubscribe
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>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Paul Brakes -- Wow!

[ted]

Of course you should like what you like, and may believe whatever you like.
However as it seems you realize, good brakes are about more than just 
mechanical advantage. Though your experience has taught you that 90deg. 
gives the "best" brakes it does not follow that 90deg gives maximum 
mechanical advantage.

On Friday, February 20, 2015 at 3:09:18 PM UTC-8, Clayton wrote:
>
> Oh... I forgot to mention that brake feel is more important than outright 
> power anyway. Bikes have a small contact patch. It's important to know 
> exactly when your tire is at max adhesion at maximum braking, and not past 
> it. I bow out now...bye.
>
> Clay
>
>
>   On Friday, February 20, 2015 2:34 PM, ted  > wrote:
>  
>
> Clayton,
>
> Your reasoning is mostly wrong, and your stick analogy does not apply.
> I think you are forgetting that the straddle wire provides mechanical 
> advantage. A small side force on  a relatively straight cable produces a 
> large tension in the cable. In theory, if the cable is straight the 
> leverage is infinite. If you correctly analyze any cantilever brake setup 
> you will find that making the straddle wire flatter increases the net 
> leverage. Unless of course the cable attachment point is at or below the 
> pivot, but I don't think anybody makes brakes like that.
>
>
> On Friday, February 20, 2015 at 10:26:03 AM UTC-8, Clayton wrote:
>
> I have to jump in here.. I have always been taught and discovered on my 
> own, that the straddle cable should be as close to perpendicular, or at 90 
> degrees, to the center of the brake pad "lever" *when it hits the rim*. 
> You can do this experiment on your own. Get a stick. Tie a string to it. 
> Lay the stick on the ground and lift the string. Lift perpendicularly and 
> then from different acute angles, inline with the stick. If you lift from 
> acute angles, the stick slides, which is energy wasted. If you set up your 
> brakes with a too short straddle cable, you lose feel and the leverage 
> forces change as you apply the brakes. Starts out soft and weak, and 
> increases as you apply the brakes because the angle gets closer to 90 
> degrees. Over 90 degrees, and you get weak brakes. The brake arm is just a 
> lever. It works best, like all levers if you lift from the end at 90 
> degrees. The brake arm pivot placement is basic too. Long arm on the 
> straddle cable side, shorter arm on the rim side. It does not matter at all 
> when it comes to straddle cable length. The only lever the straddle cable 
> acts on is the long side. The distance between the pivot and rim, and pivot 
> and straddle cable angle is fixed and you can't change it. After 20 years 
> plus of running cantilevers and being a mechanic for YETI cycles back in 
> the heyday, a shop manager and mechanic, I finally gave up.  I run V-brakes 
> now, which are much more powerful, especially with long Cool Stop salmon 
> pads. Braking is at near disc power. I can easily do a nose wheelie, using 
> brake power alone. The feel is so good, I can anti-lock brake the front. 
> Apply, feel it start to slide, let loose and rebrake. The only thing I 
> don't like and it is very minor, is the hood shape on the Cane Creek Road 
> V-brake levers.  There is far more clearance with panniers and I don't poke 
> my calf anymore. Everyone here loves their cantilevers. They are prettier 
> and match the aesthetic of Rivendell. I get that, but for me the 
> superiority of V-brakes has become beautiful in itself. 
>
> On Thursday, February 19, 2015 at 7:33:03 PM UTC-8, ted wrote:
>
> Deacon,
>
> The thing is, that definitely does not increase the leverage. 
>
> The the vertical component of the tension in the straddle cable is equal 
> to the tension in the brake cable (well half on each side).
> Lengthening the straddle cable reduces the tension in it as well as 
> changing the angle at which it meets the brake arm. The vertical component 
> of the tension stays the same, and the horizontal component is decreased.
> The net result is less torque around the brake post for a given force on 
> the brake lever.
> For a wide profile brake like the 720, where the end of the arm is barely 
> above the pivot, the decrease in leverage is relatively small. But it is a 
> decrease, not an increase. To get an increase in leverage by lengthening 
> the straddle cable the end of the brake arm would have to be below the 
> pivot.
>
> Again I'm not claiming that the longer straddle cable didn't work better 
> for you, just that the cause of the better can't have been increased 
> leverage.
>
>
> On Thursday, February 19, 2015 at 6:56:40 PM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Kellie, I went with touring in th

Re: [RBW] Re: Paul Brakes -- Wow!

[ted]

always the best plan

On Friday, February 20, 2015 at 2:54:52 PM UTC-8, Mark Reimer wrote:
>
> Ok. I'm out of my element. Going riding 
>
> On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 4:52 PM, ted > 
> wrote:
>
>> Mark,
>>
>> From the BQ writeup you cite
>>
>> The angle of the straddle cable also af- fects the mechanical advantage. 
>> A low straddle cable means that the pads travel less for a given brake 
>> lever pull. Less travel means more power.
>> and
>>
>> Unless the straddle cable is at a right angle to the brake arm, the 
>> effective length of the brake arm is shortened, which in turn reduces the 
>> braking power.
>>
>> The first is pretty straight forward, but the second overlooks the fact 
>> that, for a given brake, the tension in the cable changes when you change 
>> the angle. As you raise the angle towards 90 you reduce the tension which 
>> counteracts the increase in "effective length".
>> I think its much simpler to work out if you decompose the cable tension 
>> into vertical and horizontal components and stay away from notions like 
>> "effective length". 
>>
>> On Friday, February 20, 2015 at 2:25:28 PM UTC-8, Mark Reimer wrote:
>>>
>>> Deacon,
>>>
>>> I agree with you on this. Getting the straddle as close to 90 degrees 
>>> has always been the position which yielded the greatest stopping power for 
>>> me. With my neo-retro's (Aka the 'weaker' of the paul canti's) I have the 
>>> cable long and up high, and I have enough power to lift up the back wheel 
>>> if I really wanted. 
>>>
>>> Lower straddle usually results in less power, and obviously less mud 
>>> clearance as well. 
>>>
>>> As I understand it, the idea is to get the cable as close to 90 degrees 
>>> as you can WHEN the brakes are in contact with the rim. 
>>>
>>> To read a much more exhaustive explanation than I'm willing to 
>>> regurgitate, take a look at BQ's great write-up on setting up canti's. 
>>>
>>> In the end, I'm sure we can all agree that Paul canti's are awesome. 
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 4:18 PM, ted  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Deacon,
>>>>
>>>> I am glad that you were able get your brakes to work the way you want. 
>>>> I suspect you were told the opposite of what I am telling you, and that 
>>>> you 
>>>> understood what they were saying. Sadly they told you wrong. But happily 
>>>> they still steered you to something that worked for you.
>>>>
>>>> The phrase "slushy brakes" suggests to me low effort producing large 
>>>> brake lever travel with little braking effect. If that's what you had it 
>>>> was likely due to elasticity in the brake system, which is a separate 
>>>> thing 
>>>> from leverage. If you experience that sort of thing, look for what moves 
>>>> when you squeeze the lever hard after the pads hit the rim. For example, I 
>>>> found the steel front cable hangers flex a lot. Replacing mine with the 
>>>> aluminum ones improved the feel of my brakes significantly. Cables that 
>>>> change shape as the brakes are applied can be another source of excess 
>>>> travel.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Friday, February 20, 2015 at 4:21:44 AM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Ted, et al engineer types: I happily bow to your knowledge on the 
>>>>> angles and leverage, though I was told the opposite (as I understood it) 
>>>>> before I made the change. Interestingly, either way, the experience went 
>>>>> from slushy brakes (short saddle cable, < 90˚ intersection with the brake 
>>>>> arm) and salmon pads, to passable strength except in single track steep 
>>>>> descents (long saddle cable, close to 90˚ intersection with the brake 
>>>>> arm). 
>>>>> But that point is mute now, as the Paul's are wonderful! I look forward 
>>>>> to 
>>>>> snow-free trails so I can try them out!
>>>>>
>>>>> With abandon,
>>>>> Patrick
>>>>>
>>>>  -- 
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
>>>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/
>>>> topic/rbw-owners-bu

Re: [RBW] Re: Paul Brakes -- Wow!

[ted]

Mark,

>From the BQ writeup you cite

The angle of the straddle cable also af- fects the mechanical advantage. A 
low straddle cable means that the pads travel less for a given brake lever 
pull. Less travel means more power.
and

Unless the straddle cable is at a right angle to the brake arm, the 
effective length of the brake arm is shortened, which in turn reduces the 
braking power.

The first is pretty straight forward, but the second overlooks the fact 
that, for a given brake, the tension in the cable changes when you change 
the angle. As you raise the angle towards 90 you reduce the tension which 
counteracts the increase in "effective length".
I think its much simpler to work out if you decompose the cable tension 
into vertical and horizontal components and stay away from notions like 
"effective length". 

On Friday, February 20, 2015 at 2:25:28 PM UTC-8, Mark Reimer wrote:
>
> Deacon,
>
> I agree with you on this. Getting the straddle as close to 90 degrees has 
> always been the position which yielded the greatest stopping power for me. 
> With my neo-retro's (Aka the 'weaker' of the paul canti's) I have the cable 
> long and up high, and I have enough power to lift up the back wheel if I 
> really wanted. 
>
> Lower straddle usually results in less power, and obviously less mud 
> clearance as well. 
>
> As I understand it, the idea is to get the cable as close to 90 degrees as 
> you can WHEN the brakes are in contact with the rim. 
>
> To read a much more exhaustive explanation than I'm willing to 
> regurgitate, take a look at BQ's great write-up on setting up canti's. 
>
> In the end, I'm sure we can all agree that Paul canti's are awesome. 
>
> On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 4:18 PM, ted > 
> wrote:
>
>> Deacon,
>>
>> I am glad that you were able get your brakes to work the way you want. I 
>> suspect you were told the opposite of what I am telling you, and that you 
>> understood what they were saying. Sadly they told you wrong. But happily 
>> they still steered you to something that worked for you.
>>
>> The phrase "slushy brakes" suggests to me low effort producing large 
>> brake lever travel with little braking effect. If that's what you had it 
>> was likely due to elasticity in the brake system, which is a separate thing 
>> from leverage. If you experience that sort of thing, look for what moves 
>> when you squeeze the lever hard after the pads hit the rim. For example, I 
>> found the steel front cable hangers flex a lot. Replacing mine with the 
>> aluminum ones improved the feel of my brakes significantly. Cables that 
>> change shape as the brakes are applied can be another source of excess 
>> travel.
>>
>>
>> On Friday, February 20, 2015 at 4:21:44 AM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>>
>>> Ted, et al engineer types: I happily bow to your knowledge on the angles 
>>> and leverage, though I was told the opposite (as I understood it) before I 
>>> made the change. Interestingly, either way, the experience went from slushy 
>>> brakes (short saddle cable, < 90˚ intersection with the brake arm) and 
>>> salmon pads, to passable strength except in single track steep descents 
>>> (long saddle cable, close to 90˚ intersection with the brake arm). But that 
>>> point is mute now, as the Paul's are wonderful! I look forward to snow-free 
>>> trails so I can try them out!
>>>
>>> With abandon,
>>> Patrick
>>>
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[RBW] Re: Paul Brakes -- Wow!

[ted]

Clayton,

Your reasoning is mostly wrong, and your stick analogy does not apply.
I think you are forgetting that the straddle wire provides mechanical 
advantage. A small side force on  a relatively straight cable produces a 
large tension in the cable. In theory, if the cable is straight the 
leverage is infinite. If you correctly analyze any cantilever brake setup 
you will find that making the straddle wire flatter increases the net 
leverage. Unless of course the cable attachment point is at or below the 
pivot, but I don't think anybody makes brakes like that.


On Friday, February 20, 2015 at 10:26:03 AM UTC-8, Clayton wrote:
>
> I have to jump in here.. I have always been taught and discovered on my 
> own, that the straddle cable should be as close to perpendicular, or at 90 
> degrees, to the center of the brake pad "lever" *when it hits the rim*. 
> You can do this experiment on your own. Get a stick. Tie a string to it. 
> Lay the stick on the ground and lift the string. Lift perpendicularly and 
> then from different acute angles, inline with the stick. If you lift from 
> acute angles, the stick slides, which is energy wasted. If you set up your 
> brakes with a too short straddle cable, you lose feel and the leverage 
> forces change as you apply the brakes. Starts out soft and weak, and 
> increases as you apply the brakes because the angle gets closer to 90 
> degrees. Over 90 degrees, and you get weak brakes. The brake arm is just a 
> lever. It works best, like all levers if you lift from the end at 90 
> degrees. The brake arm pivot placement is basic too. Long arm on the 
> straddle cable side, shorter arm on the rim side. It does not matter at all 
> when it comes to straddle cable length. The only lever the straddle cable 
> acts on is the long side. The distance between the pivot and rim, and pivot 
> and straddle cable angle is fixed and you can't change it. After 20 years 
> plus of running cantilevers and being a mechanic for YETI cycles back in 
> the heyday, a shop manager and mechanic, I finally gave up.  I run V-brakes 
> now, which are much more powerful, especially with long Cool Stop salmon 
> pads. Braking is at near disc power. I can easily do a nose wheelie, using 
> brake power alone. The feel is so good, I can anti-lock brake the front. 
> Apply, feel it start to slide, let loose and rebrake. The only thing I 
> don't like and it is very minor, is the hood shape on the Cane Creek Road 
> V-brake levers.  There is far more clearance with panniers and I don't poke 
> my calf anymore. Everyone here loves their cantilevers. They are prettier 
> and match the aesthetic of Rivendell. I get that, but for me the 
> superiority of V-brakes has become beautiful in itself. 
>
> On Thursday, February 19, 2015 at 7:33:03 PM UTC-8, ted wrote:
>>
>> Deacon,
>>
>> The thing is, that definitely does not increase the leverage. 
>>
>> The the vertical component of the tension in the straddle cable is equal 
>> to the tension in the brake cable (well half on each side).
>> Lengthening the straddle cable reduces the tension in it as well as 
>> changing the angle at which it meets the brake arm. The vertical component 
>> of the tension stays the same, and the horizontal component is decreased.
>> The net result is less torque around the brake post for a given force on 
>> the brake lever.
>> For a wide profile brake like the 720, where the end of the arm is barely 
>> above the pivot, the decrease in leverage is relatively small. But it is a 
>> decrease, not an increase. To get an increase in leverage by lengthening 
>> the straddle cable the end of the brake arm would have to be below the 
>> pivot.
>>
>> Again I'm not claiming that the longer straddle cable didn't work better 
>> for you, just that the cause of the better can't have been increased 
>> leverage.
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, February 19, 2015 at 6:56:40 PM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>>
>>> Kellie, I went with touring in the back because I got them used and 
>>> that's the set up that was available. It's a set up common to folks who 
>>> want the most power for the front brake, and clearance for panniers in the 
>>> rear.
>>>
>>> Ted, lengthening the saddle cable make the angle of the brake cable to 
>>> the brake arm closer to 90˚, and that definitely increased leverage. Here's 
>>> what it looked like:
>>>
>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/32311885@N07/14450777149/in/set-72157645649878184
>>>
>>> With abandon,
>>> Patrick
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Paul Brakes -- Wow!

[ted]

Deacon,

I am glad that you were able get your brakes to work the way you want. I 
suspect you were told the opposite of what I am telling you, and that you 
understood what they were saying. Sadly they told you wrong. But happily 
they still steered you to something that worked for you.

The phrase "slushy brakes" suggests to me low effort producing large brake 
lever travel with little braking effect. If that's what you had it was 
likely due to elasticity in the brake system, which is a separate thing 
from leverage. If you experience that sort of thing, look for what moves 
when you squeeze the lever hard after the pads hit the rim. For example, I 
found the steel front cable hangers flex a lot. Replacing mine with the 
aluminum ones improved the feel of my brakes significantly. Cables that 
change shape as the brakes are applied can be another source of excess 
travel.


On Friday, February 20, 2015 at 4:21:44 AM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Ted, et al engineer types: I happily bow to your knowledge on the angles 
> and leverage, though I was told the opposite (as I understood it) before I 
> made the change. Interestingly, either way, the experience went from slushy 
> brakes (short saddle cable, < 90˚ intersection with the brake arm) and 
> salmon pads, to passable strength except in single track steep descents 
> (long saddle cable, close to 90˚ intersection with the brake arm). But that 
> point is mute now, as the Paul's are wonderful! I look forward to snow-free 
> trails so I can try them out!
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>

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[RBW] Re: Paul Brakes -- Wow!

[ted]

Deacon,

The thing is, that definitely does not increase the leverage. 

The the vertical component of the tension in the straddle cable is equal to 
the tension in the brake cable (well half on each side).
Lengthening the straddle cable reduces the tension in it as well as 
changing the angle at which it meets the brake arm. The vertical component 
of the tension stays the same, and the horizontal component is decreased.
The net result is less torque around the brake post for a given force on 
the brake lever.
For a wide profile brake like the 720, where the end of the arm is barely 
above the pivot, the decrease in leverage is relatively small. But it is a 
decrease, not an increase. To get an increase in leverage by lengthening 
the straddle cable the end of the brake arm would have to be below the 
pivot.

Again I'm not claiming that the longer straddle cable didn't work better 
for you, just that the cause of the better can't have been increased 
leverage.


On Thursday, February 19, 2015 at 6:56:40 PM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Kellie, I went with touring in the back because I got them used and that's 
> the set up that was available. It's a set up common to folks who want the 
> most power for the front brake, and clearance for panniers in the rear.
>
> Ted, lengthening the saddle cable make the angle of the brake cable to the 
> brake arm closer to 90˚, and that definitely increased leverage. Here's 
> what it looked like:
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/32311885@N07/14450777149/in/set-72157645649878184
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>

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[RBW] Re: Velo News on Bike Weight

[ted]

dead horse

On Thursday, February 19, 2015 at 7:47:57 AM UTC-8, Jim Thill - Hiawatha 
Cyclery wrote:
>
> My thoughts on the matter: 
>
> http://hiawathacyclery.blogspot.com/2015/02/dont-worry-about-bike-weight.html

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Re: [RBW] Paul Brakes -- Wow!

[ted]

If lengthening the straddle cable from what's shown in this photo made your 
brakes work better for you thats great, and I wouldn't dream of claiming 
you were mistaken about it.
However it's also a fact that lengthening that cable reduces the mechanical 
advantage (i.e. leverage) of the brake. So increased leverage was not the 
reason you liked the change.

It's great that your new to you Paul brakes work so well. Congrats.

On Thursday, February 19, 2015 at 6:13:31 PM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Oops. Here's the photo:
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/32311885@N07/14027294429/in/set-72157644719995654
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>

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[RBW] Re: Fork-mount cable stop on seatstay bridge?

[ted]

Tom, 
You might also consider taking  a file to your binder bolt. I don't think 
filing down some of the threads in the middle of the bolt significantly 
weakens it, and there is no need for threads in the space between the ears 
of the seat tube lug. I think I did that on my SimpleOne to get the long 
Nitto hanger to fit nicer. If you don't like how it comes out, another bolt 
to replace the filed one would be cheep and put you back where you started.

On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 5:19:42 AM UTC-8, Tom Harrop wrote:
>
> It's a long time since high school physics for me, but I think any 
> "upwards" force the cable exerts on the straddle wire is going to be felt 
> as "downwards" force by the cable stop. Ted's comment sums up my concern... 
> hmm, I think you've talked me out of it.
>
> Now I just have to decide whether to spend €40 on a Funky Monkey or put up 
> with sub-optimal seatpost clamping.
>
> Jeff, "sudo cablestop" is a shameless theft of an XKCD joke, but I think 
> you're actually on a winner here. Picture the bike repair pod of the future 
> where you just put in your ride and type "apt-get install cantilevers". You 
> don't even need to have the parts! You should submit a patent...
>

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[RBW] Re: Fork-mount cable stop on seatstay bridge?

[ted]

I think the pressure on the cable stop is significant. Have you ever 
watched the way a stamped steel front cable hanger bends when you apply the 
brake? I switched mine from steel to Al to eliminate the flex, which made 
the front brake feel significantly firmer.
If I recall correctly the Simple Ones were going to be side/center pull but 
the builder put in the wrong type of bridge and rather than having the 
bridges replaced RBW opted to have the canti mounts added. If the brake 
bridge one has won't support a side pull brake, I don't think I would want 
to stick a fork mount cable hanger on it. 

On Monday, February 9, 2015 at 1:02:48 PM UTC-8, Leslie wrote:
>
> I need to correct myself:   my Bomba did come w/ one of those in the link, 
> but I didn't use it. (I went w/ v-brakes.)
>
>
> Could you just switch to the other style?
>
>
> Thing is, it's only acting as a guide:  the cable is pulling up on the 
> brakes, passing through the guide, but there shouldn't be much pressure on 
> the hanger, bridge, I don't think??  
>
> I think I'd try it, if the other guide wouldn't work out
>
>   
>
>
>
>
> On Monday, February 9, 2015 at 1:04:30 PM UTC-5, Leslie wrote:
>>
>> I wouldn't worry about a Bomba, but
>>
>> Why avoid the seatpost one?
>>
>> I used one of these on my Bomba:  
>> http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/ca23.htm 
>> 
>>   
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> FWIW
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, February 9, 2015 at 9:42:46 AM UTC-5, Tom Harrop wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Does anyone see any issues with using a one of the Tektro fork-mount 
>>> cable stops  that Riv 
>>> sells on the seatstay bridge on a Bombadil, for the rear brake?
>>>
>>> The only thing that makes me hesitate is the possibility of destroying 
>>> the seatstay bridge, for example if canti frames have “less beefy” seatstay 
>>> bridges than sidepull frames, because one wouldn’t normally mount a brake 
>>> there. I guess when I squeeze the brake lever I will put quite a twisting 
>>> load on the bridge…
>>>
>>> By the way I’m aware that the normal thing to do is use a cable stop 
>>> that mounts to the seatpost binder bolt. I’d like to avoid that but it’s 
>>> plan B if the seatstay bridge is not possible.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Tom
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Thinking of going with a raw clear powdercoat

[ted]

Steve asks:
Last I heard, those raw clearcoat powdercoated bikes rusted pretty quickly 
under the finish.  Has that changed?

I doubt that it has changed. However I think the rate of rusting is quite 
dependent on the particular environment, so as to how fast rust accumulates 
YMMV.
Furthermore, with clear powdercoat at least you can see the rust. I don't 
believe adding pigment changes the rust reality. Out of sight may be out of 
mind, but it's not out of existence.
Anyway I have been perfectly happy with my clear coated Bombadil.

On Monday, February 9, 2015 at 1:55:07 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>  On 02/08/2015 06:43 PM, Steven Butcher wrote:
>  
> Bruce, I'm new to RBW but check in often.  I'd like to give a plug for 
> Groody Brothers in Kansas City,  Missouri.  They have a very informative 
> website.  I've had them powder coat a frame which turned out nicely.  To 
> remove the old paint, they used a glass bead blasting process which is much 
> gentler to the metal than sandblasting.  I know they can do a clear powder 
> coat.  I really like that raw metal look.  Good luck.  Steve.  
>
> On Tuesday, August 21, 2012 at 1:41:57 PM UTC-5, Bruce Baker wrote: 
>>
>> Has anyone taken their Sam Hillborne, stripped it and gone with a clear 
>> powder coat??  Would there be any downside to this??
>> I really like the looks of the protovelos I've seen and think it would be 
>> interesting have a Sam like that.  Any thoughts or comments??
>> Bruce
>>
>  
> Last I heard, those raw clearcoat powdercoated bikes rusted pretty quickly 
> under the finish.  Has that changed?
>
>
>  

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[RBW] Re: How have your Rivendells held up on salty winter roads?

[Ted Shwartz]

I have been riding my Quickbeam all year round in coastal Massachusetts 
with road salt, and salt ocean spray since 2004. The bicycle is fendered, 
and shows some beausage

Ted

On Thursday, January 29, 2015 at 9:33:04 PM UTC-5, lungimsam wrote:
>
> There is a 200k on March 5th I'd like to attempt. My only shot at training 
> is during the next 5 weeks, and the roads here in Maryland are trashed with 
> salt from the mild snows we have been getting, with more to come next week.
> Looks like no salt free roads for the next 10 days with the forecast 
> showing sporadic snows three times a week or so until then.
>
> So how have your bikes fared in the heavy salt. I have full coverage 
> fenders, so maybe that would help a lot.
>

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[RBW] FS: lotsa parts

[Ted Durant]

The great pre-moving sale, part 2.

No reasonable offer refused.

Shimano DuraAce 7400 Rear Derailer short cage
Shimano DuraAce 7400 Front Derailer 28.6 clamp
Shimano DuraAce 7400 SIS 6-speed down tube shifters
Shimano DuraAce 7400 Brake Calipers (39-49mm, recessed)
Shimano DuraAce 7400 Cranks 165mm 52/42 chainrings w/English 68mm BB
Shimano DuraAce 7400 Pedals with clips and straps (but not the butterfly cleat 
clips)
Shimano DuraAce 7400 6sp Freewheel 13-21
Shimano DuraAce 7400 Seatpost - 27.0mm
Shimano DuraAce 7400 Headset - english j
Wheels: Shimano DuraAce 7400 hubs (with QR), Torelli clincher rims (Built by 
Joe Young)
All in VG to excellent condition

Shimano BR5500 103 Brake Calipers "normal" reach

SunTour Superbe Pro Cranks 172.5mm w/English 68mm BB VG condition

SunTour XC Pro rear derailed short cage VG condition (2 of them)

SunTour Cyclone Mk II Front Der 28.6mm band clamp good cond.

SRAM Red 2010 Front Derailer braze-on with 28.6mm clamp exc cond.

Brooks B17 saddles:
B17S (Ladies) honey brown regular rivets, barely used
B17 honey brown large rivets, used, visible twist
B17 honey brown large rivets, well used, bit of a twist

DiaCompe Brake Levers - non-aero, built in QR, natural hoods, exc cond.

DiaCompe Brake Levers - aero, adjustable leverage - new cond.

Simplex SLJ 5500 Real Derailer - needs pivot bolt - otherwise excellent

Mafac Competition center pull caliper with springs and arm for mounting to 
frame without braze ons, but no hardware. Appears hardly used.

Mafac rear cable hanger (mounts to seatpost bolt)

Mafac brake levers - dual cable (for tandem) - no hoods - used, but in good 
shape

Nitto ZAR 70mm Decaleur new 

Sugino BB 7420 103mm new

Kelly Take-Offs - just the take-offs, no hardware

A little over 2000 assorted Willow chainrings, including Triplizers & hardware, 
with a supply of poly bags and an impulse sealer. Gotta take the whole thing.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI

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[RBW] Coldest Ride on a Rivendell Ever?

[Ted Shwartz]

My coldest day happened on my regular commute. It normally takes 45 minutes. 
That day it took 1 1/2 hours. When I finally got to work I looked up the 
weather and found out it was 3 below (Fahrenheit) with a 25 mph headwind.

It took a while for my water bottle to thaw, and my brain engage.

The rest was ok, just cooked from the upwind ride. My normal cold weather 
equipment is a layered approach, and thin wool socks, thick wool socks, and a 
goretex oversock with Shimano sandles. The feet are well insulated, not 
constricted, and don't have booty/shoe/cleat holes

Ted Shwartz

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Re: [RBW] Re: Drill brake bridge for fender?

[ted]

Dan,

Although I appreciate your offer, I am satisfied with the way I currently 
have my fender mounted (with a sliding thing). Also my brake bridge is 
square in the middle, and it seems like a shame to butcher such a neat 
widget by filing it flat. I suppose someone could use half a piece of rod 
to fill the cut out, but probably using it on a round bridge (as intended) 
would be most satisfying. Peter certainly did sound excited about locating 
one, so perhaps he will take you up on it.

thnks
Ted


On Wednesday, December 31, 2014 5:49:36 AM UTC-8, danmc wrote:
>
> I finally had time to go through the parts and I have two of those widgets 
> from Anton. The frames they were intended for have moved on so they are 
> available if the OP and Peter are interested. 
>
> Dan
>
>
>
> On Dec 30, 2014, at 9:24 PM, Peter Adler > 
> wrote:
>
> That looks ideal. On the offchance that you keep track of older purchases: 
> Do you recall what the widget's French name is? I'm assuming it was a 
> common part, but only in France (for perma-mounting fenders on 700c frames 
> without predrilled brake bridges, perhaps). But given the current run of 
> listings on eBay.fr, I'm guessing that anyone who's selling these has no 
> idea what they are, so it'll be hard to ferret out.
>
> Peter Adler
> who wishes he had one of these *right now* to get a rear fender on before 
> Stormageddon II: Apocalypse of the Drought-Stricken hits in
> Berkeley, CA/USA
>
> On Saturday, December 20, 2014 7:08:11 AM UTC-8, Anton Tutter wrote:
>>
>> Another solution is this little French widget.  I got a bunch of these 
>> and offered them up on the Bob and RBW lists a couple of years ago. I only 
>> have one left, in anticipation of me being in this situation one day, 
>> otherwise I'd offer it up:
>>
>> It's designed for mounting a fender to a typical tubular brake bridge 
>> (without the modern Square center section).  If you were able to source one 
>> of these, you could file the curved recess flat to fit the square section 
>> of the bridge.  Or if you know someone with a lathe, this could be a really 
>> fast and easy widget to make.
>>
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[RBW] Re: lugged stem or post slipping

[ted]

Fair enough, though I was mostly interested in folks experiences with the 
similarly extra expensive stems. But then the stems are probably even more 
subject to "fetishizing" charges since they don't even have the sometimes 
useful huge setback of the posts to justify their existence. In any case ...

It seems like the nice plated finish on those steel parts is quite 
slippery. I wonder if the risk of a stem or post getting stuck 
(occasionally happens with more commonly used Al parts) or creaking is 
eliminated with that finish. If it is, the practice of greasing the 
inserted portion may not be appropriate in those cases.
The whole galvanic corrosion thing must be different too, with nickel 
plated steel in a steel tube instead of Al in a steel tube.
What does your extensive shop experience recommend (besides buying 
inexpensive Al parts)?


On Monday, December 29, 2014 7:30:02 AM UTC-8, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery 
wrote:
>
> Interesting thought about "fetishizing" bike parts. As we talk about 
> strategies for coping with $200 seatposts that slip rather than the $20 
> posts that don't slip...

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Re: [RBW] Re: What's your winter project?

[Ted Shwartz]

On the Quickbeam, New Bar tape, twine and shellac (just do at least every 10 
years)

New Rando bike

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[RBW] lugged stem or post slipping

[ted]

I usually put a liberal coat of grease on seat posts and stems prior to 
installing them. The intent being to avoid creaking and / or parts becoming 
stuck. When I put a Nitto lugged seat post on my Bombadil I had trouble 
getting it to stay put. On every ride it would slip down in the seat tube. 
Eventually I wiped the post and the inside of my seat tube as clean as I 
could, and since then things have been fine. I think I read somebody 
commenting that the lugged stem always tended to slip on them. My bullmoose 
bars generally stay put but any time the bike falls over they do end up off 
center. 
So I wonder, is there a consensus on the best approach to installing Nitto 
steel stems and seat posts with the dull bright coating. Grease, no grease, 
Boeshield T9, bees wax, ... 

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[RBW] Re: Which is best: Roll-out or default tire size on cyclecomputer or measuring wheel vertically?

[ted]

Mostly agree,
Easiest thing is no cyclometer,
Next easiest is gps only cyclometer (no calibration),
Then comes the various ways of calibrating a wheel rev counting cyclometer.

The standard value typically given for 700x23 is 2096mm circumference, 
which works out to about 26.26 inch diameter. Measuring roll out with 
Schwalbe 650B "fatties" (aka HS315) which measure about 45mm wide, I came 
up with a 25.84 inch diameter, which is ~1.5% less than the 26.26 value. My 
guestimate for the soma GRs is  ~25.72" which is ~2% less than the 26.26 
value. Is 1 or 2 percent worth bothering with? Thats up to each rider. 

Though cue sheets may be no more accurate than your own cyclometer, if you 
are consistently reading ~2% over the cue sheets, and you would like to 
agree with them, then adjusting your circumference setting to match is a 
reasonable thing to do.


On Saturday, December 20, 2014 10:31:57 AM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> The easiest thing is no cyclometer.  The second easiest thing is to use 
> the 700x23 default number for your 650bx42 (both have a nominal radius of 
> 334mm) Then ride a known distance and adjust accordingly.  I've used the 
> track at the high school.  4 laps = 1 mile.  I've used the painted mile 
> stripes at the bike path.  Deacon is right about load affecting things, but 
> your tire pressure also can.  A 1% error in radius means a 1% error in your 
> distance and 3mm of extra drop because you are running your tires softer 
> than usual is a 1% error in radius.  Getting better than 1% accurate is 
> probably not worth the effort.  
>
> On brevets, a 1 mile discrepancy between your computer and the cue sheet 
> can EASILY be partially due to the cue sheet.  A very noble, very generous 
> volunteer made that cue sheet, using his cyclometer.  S/he is not perfect 
> either.  
>
> On Saturday, December 20, 2014 10:08:05 AM UTC-8, ted wrote:
>>
>> If you want to eliminate the discrepancy, just reduce the wheel 
>> circumference setting on your cateye by 2% (1 mile in 50 is 2 in 100 is 2%).
>>
>> On Saturday, December 20, 2014 8:15:38 AM UTC-8, Tim wrote:
>>>
>>> Good question. I set my CatEye up as 700x32 (Compass Stampede Pass). The 
>>> computer gains about 1 mile in 50 during every brevet I've ridden. So I'm 
>>> guessing if it shows that I've gone 51 when th cue sheet reads 50, that 
>>> probably means I'm riding slightly slower than the computer shows. I always 
>>> reset at controls so it's not a huge issue but I've often wondered if other 
>>> riders have similar experiences. Turn to turn distances are accurate and 
>>> I'm sure there is some margin of error on cue sheets but my reading is 
>>> consistently long.
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Bay Area RBW meetup group? ride or camping?

[ted]

I would be interested, though I don't live on the peninsula.
I used to live over there, and I still think the riding there is as good as 
it gets.

On Saturday, December 20, 2014 10:19:24 AM UTC-8, Anne Paulson wrote:
>
> Any South Bay riders interested in a South Bay get together? Oakland 
> is not so convenient from the peninsula. 
>
> On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 10:22 PM, DS > 
> wrote: 
> > Anyone interested in meeting up for a monthly Rivendell ride in the Bay 
> Area 
> > (East Bay specifically since I live in Oakland but happy to travel up to 
> an 
> > hour and include anyone located within spitting distance)? I feel like 
> > there's a lot of  you Oakland/Berkeley members on here, some of you must 
> be 
> > riding on weekends and fit within my style and timeframe of riding? Or 
> is 
> > there something like this already exists (besides Manny's rides which 
> look 
> > totally awesome but would take too much out time and energy out of my 
> > weekend)? Would be nice to meet up and ride with some like minded folk. 
> More 
> > of a social gathering with some medium duty riding mixed in. Maybe beers 
> > mixed in at the end? 
> > 
> > One of my highlights this year was Entmoot. So much fun to meet fellow 
> > Rivendell owners from all over. I've also enjoyed getting to know the 
> > Rivendell employees, and fellow riders through the list and 
> buying/selling 
> > things locally. Would love to organize something where we meet up more 
> > regularly, for a more casual, social ride setting. And by 'organize' i 
> mean 
> > that in the absolute loosest sense of the word. Last thing I want to be 
> > responsible for is any sort of official group with insurance and 
> waivers, 
> > etc. 
> > 
> > I typically go for rides out of Rockridge (up tunnel road, snake rd, or 
> > shasta in Berkeley, and figure it out from there) on Saturday or Sunday 
> > mornings around 9:00 or 9:30 for around 3-4 hours (road, trail, 
> > mixed)...usually, sometimes longer, sometimes shorter when time is 
> tight. 
> > Other times I'll go to N. Bay or further out in the East Bay (over the 
> peak 
> > and into Mt Diablo/Shell Ridge area) and find some routes there: road or 
> > trails. I'm not very fast. Touring pace. Home in time for lunch and a 
> beer. 
> > I do this almost every week (rockridge departure) so could be a weekly 
> thing 
> > if enough people are interested. I'm not big on being out more than 4-5 
> > hours or so, 4 hours is my sweet spot. 
> > 
> > My thought is a once a month thing (like first saturday or sunday?) If 
> > enough interest I can just setup a google group and we can take it from 
> > there. Just gauging interest for now or seeing if something else is 
> already 
> > out there. Maybe an inaugural ride starting at the Rockridge BART the 
> > weekend of Jan 3 or 10? I think I already have some travel the first few 
> > weeks of Feb so could already be a rocky start for the second month, but 
> > happy to make some amends for the greater good where I can. 
> > 
> > Possible overnighter meet ups as well? 
> > 
> > Let me know, PM or reply to thread. 
> > 
> > Disclaimer: my main road ride is actually not a Rivendell, but a Gunnar 
> > (outfitted with a front rack and sackville trunk bag of course), though 
> I 
> > have three rivendells now for trail (hunqapillar), commute (cheviot), 
> and 
> > single speeding (QB) that I can take out to fit in :) Unless someone 
> wants 
> > to trade me an AHH. 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
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>
>
> -- 
> -- Anne Paulson 
>
> It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. 
>

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[RBW] Re: Which is best: Roll-out or default tire size on cyclecomputer or measuring wheel vertically?

[ted]

If you want to eliminate the discrepancy, just reduce the wheel 
circumference setting on your cateye by 2% (1 mile in 50 is 2 in 100 is 2%).

On Saturday, December 20, 2014 8:15:38 AM UTC-8, Tim wrote:
>
> Good question. I set my CatEye up as 700x32 (Compass Stampede Pass). The 
> computer gains about 1 mile in 50 during every brevet I've ridden. So I'm 
> guessing if it shows that I've gone 51 when th cue sheet reads 50, that 
> probably means I'm riding slightly slower than the computer shows. I always 
> reset at controls so it's not a huge issue but I've often wondered if other 
> riders have similar experiences. Turn to turn distances are accurate and 
> I'm sure there is some margin of error on cue sheets but my reading is 
> consistently long.

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[RBW] Re: Which is best: Roll-out or default tire size on cyclecomputer or measuring wheel vertically?

[ted]

You will get the most accurate measurements by carefully measuring your 
roll out and using a cyclecomputer that counts wheel revolutions.

I find the easiest way to measure roll out is to lay out a 50' cloth tape 
(using bricks or rocks to weight the ends helps), line up the valve stem at 
the 1 foot mark, then roll along the tape and stop with the valve stem at 
the bottom and read off the distance (don't forget to subtract the 1 foot 
for where you started). Alternatively you can use chalk to mark the road 
next to the valve stem and measure between the marks. Either way have the 
tire inflated to normal pressure and sit on the bike as you roll. I find 
it's easiest to do this right next to the sidewalk curb out in front of my 
house, but any parking lot should suffice.

If that's more trouble than you want to deal with, just linearly 
interpolate between 25.35 in. for a 32mm tire and 25.84 in for a 45mm tire. 
Those are values I got with 650B GB Cypres, and 650B Schwalbe "fatty" 
respectively.

On Saturday, December 20, 2014 6:21:29 AM UTC-8, lungimsam wrote:
>
> Which method is more accurate for getting more accurate cyclecomputer 
> data? I am mostly interested in the miles ridden being accurate, if that is 
> even possible on a cyclecomputer. I don't know how accurate these things 
> are. My cycling app shows very different speed reads than my cycle computer.
> Also, which is more accurate? An iPhone cyclecomputer app, or an 
> actual cycle computer? I am guessing the app is using GPS, but I have heard 
> that GPS isn't so accurate either.
>
> *Rivcontent:*
>
> 1.Only one 650b size is available on cyclecomputers I have, so unless I 
> have 37mm tires, I can't get an accurate read using that.
> 2. I find it difficult to accurately measure from ground to hub axle 
> center accurately. Is that tire *really* standing vertical?
> 3. Roll out may be easier better?
>
> Lastly, if I have been using the one and only 650b x 37mm default wheel 
> size setting on my cycle computer with my 42mm wide tires, I am guessing 
> that the distances are being represented as shorter and the speeds shown 
> as slower since the bigger actual tire is taking longer to make one 
> revolution than the computer is expecting for the wheel size setting of 
> 650b x 37mm?
>

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[RBW] Re: Drill brake bridge for fender?

[ted]

Thanks Takashi, that looks kinda neat.
I gather it replaces the spacer that normally goes on the brake bolt on the 
back side of the bridge. Do you know how thick it is?
I suspect the only way to get one would be special order through a LBS. 

On Friday, December 19, 2014 7:58:01 PM UTC-8, Takashi wrote:
>
> Honjo makes this small thing that lets you mount rear fender on a bike 
> without threaded rear brake bridge:
>
> http://www.euroasiaimports.com/productcart/pc/Honjo-Fender-Attatchment-Pivot-for-Narrow-Space-2291p23812.htm
>
> Takashi
>
>
> 2014年12月20日土曜日 8時21分31秒 UTC+9 ted:
>>
>> Sometimes rear brake bridges have a threaded hole on the bottom for 
>> attaching a fender.
>> My AHH brake bridge has a squarish section in the center that is flat 
>> where a fender bolt might go.
>> Would just drilling and taping that face work or should something like a 
>> water bottle mount be brazed in if I want to bolt a fender directly to the 
>> bridge?
>> Anybody know?
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Drill brake bridge for fender?

[ted]

An L bracket would be another nice approach, particularly with the Sheldon 
nuts.
I have cut bolts to fit before, though probably not that short.
I was just putting longboards over soma GR tires on my Hilsen. There is not 
much room and the 45 fenders are barely wider than the tires. I think 
getting the fender in just the right place would be easier with a threaded 
bridge than with the other methods.
Of course if they work ok the way they are now I'm not gonna be in a big 
hurry to mess with it.

On Friday, December 19, 2014 3:50:55 PM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Alternatively, Honjo L-brackets are really nice looking.  I also bought a 
> set of Sheldon nuts for the next time fenders go back on the Hilsen. 
>  Christopher is right that you'll have to run a bolt that's exactly the 
> right length.  
>
> On Friday, December 19, 2014 3:47:06 PM UTC-8, ted wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Bill,
>>
>> Since its basically flat sided in the middle I figure it wouldn't be hard 
>> to carefully mark and center-punch it so a drill wouldn't tend to walk.
>> Then just poke the right size hole with a hand drill and run the tap I 
>> use to clean bottle and rack mount threads through it.
>> Not trivial, but not too difficult either.
>> My SImpleOne has a threaded bridge and I like that better than the metal 
>> sliding crimping thing that comes with the longboards.
>>
>> On Friday, December 19, 2014 3:31:28 PM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
>>> Drilling and tapping would work if you do it right.  I have bikes that 
>>> came with threaded bridges, and I prefer that.  My Hilsen, like yours, 
>>> doesn't have a threaded rear brake bridge.  I have not drilled and tapped 
>>> it yet, but it's currently not wearing fenders, either.   
>>>
>>> On Friday, December 19, 2014 3:21:31 PM UTC-8, ted wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Sometimes rear brake bridges have a threaded hole on the bottom for 
>>>> attaching a fender.
>>>> My AHH brake bridge has a squarish section in the center that is flat 
>>>> where a fender bolt might go.
>>>> Would just drilling and taping that face work or should something like 
>>>> a water bottle mount be brazed in if I want to bolt a fender directly to 
>>>> the bridge?
>>>> Anybody know?
>>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Drill brake bridge for fender?

[ted]

Thanks Bill,

Since its basically flat sided in the middle I figure it wouldn't be hard 
to carefully mark and center-punch it so a drill wouldn't tend to walk.
Then just poke the right size hole with a hand drill and run the tap I use 
to clean bottle and rack mount threads through it.
Not trivial, but not too difficult either.
My SImpleOne has a threaded bridge and I like that better than the metal 
sliding crimping thing that comes with the longboards.

On Friday, December 19, 2014 3:31:28 PM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Drilling and tapping would work if you do it right.  I have bikes that 
> came with threaded bridges, and I prefer that.  My Hilsen, like yours, 
> doesn't have a threaded rear brake bridge.  I have not drilled and tapped 
> it yet, but it's currently not wearing fenders, either.   
>
> On Friday, December 19, 2014 3:21:31 PM UTC-8, ted wrote:
>>
>> Sometimes rear brake bridges have a threaded hole on the bottom for 
>> attaching a fender.
>> My AHH brake bridge has a squarish section in the center that is flat 
>> where a fender bolt might go.
>> Would just drilling and taping that face work or should something like a 
>> water bottle mount be brazed in if I want to bolt a fender directly to the 
>> bridge?
>> Anybody know?
>>
>

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[RBW] Drill brake bridge for fender?

[ted]

Sometimes rear brake bridges have a threaded hole on the bottom for 
attaching a fender.
My AHH brake bridge has a squarish section in the center that is flat where 
a fender bolt might go.
Would just drilling and taping that face work or should something like a 
water bottle mount be brazed in if I want to bolt a fender directly to the 
bridge?
Anybody know?

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[RBW] Re: Alternate mounting for Nitto Mark's Rack?

[ted]

I used a similar approach to mount a Mark's rack on my Bombadil, but rather 
than put an s bend in the short struts I just used a single kink in a short 
straight strut that made them about horizontal. It worked fine, but with 
cantilever brakes I found I preferred the mini rack.

Do any of RBW's frames that have those threads in the top of the fork crown 
use center/side pull brakes?

On Sunday, December 7, 2014 1:26:06 PM UTC-8, BSWP wrote:
>
> Thanks, yes, there's a write up on how to do it:
>
> http://oceanaircycles.com/2013/10/28/mounting-marks-rack-on-a-rambler/
>
> Simple and clean!
>
> - Andrew
>
> On Sunday, December 7, 2014 1:19:04 PM UTC-8, justin...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> Rob at Ocean Air Cycles sells this set up with everything you need. 
>>
>> -Justin
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Oregon Outback and water

[ted]

Jan, do most of the riders you know consume water at a similar rate?

On Tuesday, November 25, 2014 6:07:35 AM UTC-8, Jan Heine wrote:
>
> The 40 miles per bottle were on soft gravel in daytime, which resulted in 
> more work per mile than the stretch from Fort Rock to Prineville, most of 
> which is on harder gravel or even pavement. Plus, I did half of that 
> stretch at night, with cooler temperatures. If I was concerned, I'd put a 
> disposable water bottle or two in my jersey pockets, thus increasing my 
> capacity by 40%.
>
> It's important to be prepared, but not be scared off. In the end, you just 
> have to go out and do it! If you have to ride 20 miles without water, it'll 
> probably be fine.
>
> Jan Heine
> Editor
> Bicycle Quarterly
> www.bikequarterly.com
>
> Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/
>
>
>
> On Monday, November 24, 2014 7:28:38 PM UTC-8, ted wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for weighing in with your experience Jan.
>> Sounds like you got >40 miles per bottle, so with 3 bottles you had at 
>> least 50% margin for an 80 mile gap between water. No worries, pretty 
>> simple.
>> I presume warmer sunnier conditions would reduce your miles per bottle, 
>> and would eat into that margin.
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Oregon Outback and water

[ted]

I am lucky enough that pretty much nothing to do with my cycling is driven 
by need. I am way past needs and well into preferences.
No doubt I could ride for 5+ hours without water without dying, but I 
rather think I would rather not. Ride without water that is. 

On Tuesday, November 25, 2014 7:17:55 AM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Jan's point is excellent, and I'll say that most of us, regardless of 
> conditions, could likely bike for five or more hours if need be without 
> water. I've run in 100˚F+ Utah desert for over eight hours at high summer 
> with 44 oz of water. I have biked 5+ hours being completely out of water. 
> Yes, we need water to live, but not in the amounts we've come to believe. 
> See Noikes' "Waterlogged."
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Winter means looking for problems that might not exist and solving them. Hence, Stem Shifters!

[ted]

That photo should also remind us that the euro pro road race crowd didn't 
arrive at what they are using now without trying a lot of different things.
Those Vitus bikes were widely reputed to be very flexible, they must plane. 
Didn't Jan say his Alan cross bike does.
Lots of experimentation with suspension for cobbles back then. I don't 
think any of it stuck.
Which of course is not to suggest that we should ride what they do. 

On Tuesday, November 25, 2014 8:26:00 AM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> You're absolutely right, Scott.  There were a bunch of things mixing 
> around at once during that era.  Very good eye.  You got more out of it 
> beyond the point I initially intended to deliver, but you are totally 
> right.  It's all there.  
>
> Bill
>
> On Tuesday, November 25, 2014 8:09:29 AM UTC-8, Skenry wrote:
>>
>> That actually is a GREAT picture Bill.   Thanks for posting, it has been 
>> saved.
>>
>> Sean Kelly on that Vitus 979 with downtube shifters and toe clips.   Then 
>> moving back we have the barcons, then STI levers and, on the far left, Greg 
>> Lemond with Scott Drop-in bars and a converted RockShox Mag 21 fork.
>>
>> Not to mention a hard shell helmet, a cap, bare headed and a hairnet.  
>> All in the same picture.
>>
>> That photo is an essay on the last 30 years in pro cycling!
>> Scott
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 10:55 AM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>>
>>> OK, that makes sense.  Just like some riders would use one or two 
>>> barcons on their criterium bike in the 1980s if they felt that reaching for 
>>> DT shifters would make them too wobbly.  Just like a few of the pros would 
>>> run barcons just for Paris Roubaix or similar.  Just like most cyclocross 
>>> racers would run barcons before brifters came about.  I'll keep that in 
>>> mind.  Here's Sean Kelly not needing barcons but the racer behind him 
>>> running them:
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> On a related note, I found it kind of cute how easily I can shift from 
>>> the tops with my thumbs, not letting go of the bars at all.  That was just 
>>> around the block.  When you, Steve, say that stem shifters are unacceptable 
>>> for these situations, are you saying that because it's self-evident to you, 
>>> or because you actually tried it?  Just curious.  If this experiment 
>>> doesn't work out for me the barcons will go right back on the Hillborne.
>>>
>>>
>>>

 Here's one at the top of the list:  You are going fast and the road is 
 rough: alligatored, cracked, patches upon patches with small holes in 
 between.  (I don't know if you have stuff like that where you ride, but 
 where I ride in the rural areas of Southern Maryland, there's lots and 
 lots of it.)  It's somewhat like riding on rumble strips only with the 
 occasional bigger impact.  On surfaces like that, I wouldn't venture to 
 remove one hand from the bars and move it to the center line of the 
 bike 
 to shift, but with bar end shifters (and brifters, of course) you can 
 hold on to the bar and maintain stability while shifting with your 
 fingers or your palm. 

 But basically, in any situation where the bike could be jostled, either 
 from road surface roughness or from irregular, gusting side winds it 
 would be ill-advised and sometimes downright dangerous to get yourself 
 into the position required to operate a stem shifter. 


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>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Oregon Outback and water

[ted]

Thanks for weighing in with your experience Jan.
Sounds like you got >40 miles per bottle, so with 3 bottles you had at 
least 50% margin for an 80 mile gap between water. No worries, pretty 
simple.
I presume warmer sunnier conditions would reduce your miles per bottle, and 
would eat into that margin.

On Monday, November 24, 2014 8:49:14 AM UTC-8, Jan Heine wrote:
>
> I think the longest stretch without water was about 40 miles, maybe a bit 
> more during the night. I think the organizers carried a lot of water 
> because they camped in places with no water. If you want to cook dinner, 
> you'll need some extra water.
>
> I carried three large cycling water bottles. That meant that I could skip 
> the first two places where I could have got water on or near the route. (It 
> was an overcast day, so I didn't sweat a lot.) I refilled my bottles for 
> the first time at mile 120.
>
> I think the ride is doable for most riders with just three bottles, even 
> if you go slower and sweat more. You should use every opportunity to top 
> off in some parts of the course, but it's never so remote that you'll die 
> if you are stranded. Cars use those roads (or the one's paralleling the 
> trail), even if infrequently.
>
> Jan Heine
> Editor
> Bicycle Quarterly
> www.bikequarterly.com
>
> Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/
>

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Re: [RBW] The real reason to like Schwalbe superlight tubes

[ted]

http://www.compasscycle.com/tires_tubes_650.html

Nice to hear about the patching.

On Sunday, November 23, 2014 7:05:40 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> On 11/23/2014 09:13 PM, ted wrote: 
> > They are so tiny. I mean they pack down really small. I fit two in my 
> > small flat fix pouch where only one regular tube fits. 
> > I do however wonder how well they work once you put a patch on one. 
> > The patch doesn't stretch like the tube does. I makes an uneven hard 
> > spot. Will that make a patched superlight tube prone to tear? 
> > 
>
> I've never seen a Schwalbe Superlight tube, but I have been using their 
> Ultralight tubes for over five years now and have patched them several 
> times with no problems.  You do have to be more careful with the 
> sandpaper, of course, since the tube is thinner. 
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Oregon Outback and water

[ted]

Sounds reasonable and if it works well for you thats great. I usually 
prefer not to have a pack on if I am riding for a long time. I would rather 
have what I need attached to the bike somehow.

On Sunday, November 23, 2014 8:06:26 PM UTC-8, Anne Paulson wrote:
>
> Why? Why should you get it low? I would have thought keeping it on 
> your back, above the suspension (your knees) would be better. 
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 6:39 PM, Deacon Patrick  > wrote: 
> > Water is the heaviest item by volume you will carry. It pays to get it 
> as 
> > low as practicable. 
> > 
> > With abandon, 
> > Patrick 
> > 
> > 
> > On Sunday, November 23, 2014 7:36:49 PM UTC-7, ted wrote: 
> >> 
> >> I think this 
> >> http://epicureancyclist.com/review-msr-dromedary-and-s-biners/ looks 
> fairly 
> >> nice. 
> >> 
> >> On Sunday, November 23, 2014 6:26:13 PM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote: 
> >>> 
> >>> I don't remember. Wherever it works. Test before hand. Irish straps 
> are 
> >>> beautiful! 
> >>> 
> >>> With abandon, 
> >>> Patrick 
> > 
> > -- 
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups 
> > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an 
> > email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com . 
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> . 
> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. 
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 
>
>
>
> -- 
> -- Anne Paulson 
>
> It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Oregon Outback and water

[ted]

Ok. Seems like the usual locations for bottle cages on the down and seat 
tubes do that, but once those spaces are taken finding someplace for 
another say gallon and a half on a small or medium size bike presents some 
challenges. I suppose you can put containers in the bottom of a pannier but 
thats not very convenient for access.

On Sunday, November 23, 2014 6:39:09 PM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Water is the heaviest item by volume you will carry. It pays to get it as 
> low as practicable.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Sunday, November 23, 2014 7:36:49 PM UTC-7, ted wrote:
>>
>> I think this 
>> http://epicureancyclist.com/review-msr-dromedary-and-s-biners/ looks 
>> fairly nice.
>>
>> On Sunday, November 23, 2014 6:26:13 PM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't remember. Wherever it works. Test before hand. Irish straps are 
>>> beautiful!
>>>
>>> With abandon,
>>> Patrick
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Oregon Outback and water

[ted]

I think this http://epicureancyclist.com/review-msr-dromedary-and-s-biners/ 
looks fairly nice.

On Sunday, November 23, 2014 6:26:13 PM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> I don't remember. Wherever it works. Test before hand. Irish straps are 
> beautiful!
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>

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Re: [RBW] Oregon Outback and water

[ted]

I think there are 3.785 liters in a gallon or about 7.5 liters for 2 
gallons.
Your 5 liters is abt 1 and 1/3 gallons. With 3 28oz bottles like Deacon 
carries thats another ~2/3 of a gallon.
So yea I guess that puts you at ~2gal for the longer dry stretches. 
Thanks for setting me straight.


On Sunday, November 23, 2014 6:15:23 PM UTC-8, Anne Paulson wrote:
>
> I wear a 100 oz hydration pack. With two 1-liter bags, that's 5 
> liters. And I'll probably 
> carry two or three water bottles in the really dry sections. I'm going 
> to be around 2 gallons, I guess. Not sure really. 
>
> On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 6:00 PM, ted > 
> wrote: 
> > Deacon and Anne, thanks for the info. 
> > Do you put the 100oz hydro pack/blader in a bike mounted bag or are you 
> > wearing those on your back? 
> > Anne, sounds like you plan to go with well under 2gal of water storage. 
> Have 
> > I got that right? 
> > I get that somebody stoping to sleep/camp needs a bunch of gear that a 
> > nonstop rider doesn't, but the 2gal that site mentions seems like a 
> whole 
> > lot more than I thought folks usually carry on a day (or two) ride. Are 
> the 
> > water needs for the fast movers that much less than for those going at a 
> > more leisurely pace? 
> > 
> > thnks 
> > Ted 
> > 
> > 
> > On Saturday, November 22, 2014 10:34:15 AM UTC-8, Anne Paulson wrote: 
> >> 
> >> Because I'm taking the slow route, I'm going to carry way more stuff 
> >> than Jan. I'll have 
> >> 
> >> tent 
> >> sleeping bag 
> >> pad 
> >> wool t shirt and lycra shorts for riding 
> >> wool jersey and wool legwarmers for riding when it's cold 
> >> off-bike clothes (I can't sit around in wet cycling clothing; I get 
> >> immediately chilled) 
> >> second pair of shorts (I know you guys can wear the same shorts two 
> >> days in a row, but that does not work for me at all) 
> >> wool hat 
> >> puffy jacket 
> >> rain clothes 
> >> little cookset of Trangia burner, titanium pot, Westwind pot stand, 
> cup, 
> >> spork 
> >> food 
> >> Ursack food bag to protect food from marauders 
> >> 100 oz hydration pack 
> >> couple of 1 liter bladders for no-water section 
> >> water filter 
> >> food 
> >> tools, spare tubes 
> >> soap 
> >> first aid kit 
> >> bandannas, 1001 uses 
> >> meds & toiletries 
> >> probably my Tilley hat with a brim, for sun 
> >> probably some Crocs 
> >> 
> >> The hydration pack plus the two bladders is about 5 liters. I might 
> >> also in the no-water section carry more water, not sure. I'm going to 
> >> have to camp dry one night. 
> >> 
> >> On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 9:55 AM, ted  wrote: 
> >> > I am intrigued by the route but hough the trip sounds very appealing, 
> it 
> >> > also sounds very daunting. 
> >> > For example this from http://velodirt.com/the-oregon-outback/: 
> >> >  ... At the longest no-water section we each carried 2+ gallons of 
> >> > water. 
> >> > ... 
> >> > 
> >> > Yet Jan Heine did it on a rando bike, and several riders did it in 
> about 
> >> > a 
> >> > day and a half. 
> >> > 
> >> > In another thread several posters say they are planing to do the ride 
> >> > next 
> >> > season. If some of them would comment on how much stuff they plan to 
> >> > carry 
> >> > and how they deal with water I would appreciate it. I am not sure how 
> I 
> >> > would go about hauling 2+ gallons on my bike. Grocery panniers and a 
> >> > milk 
> >> > jug on either side? 
> >> > 
> >> > -- 
> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> >> > Groups 
> >> > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 
> >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
> send 
> >> > an 
> >> > email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. 
> >> > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. 
> >> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. 
> >> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> -- 
> >> -- Anne Paulson 
> >> 
> >> It isn't a contest. 

Re: [RBW] Oregon Outback and water

[ted]

In the main triangle along with the bottle cages? Guess it pays to ride a 
big frame.

On Sunday, November 23, 2014 6:07:56 PM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> I strap the 100oz bladder to the frame.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Sunday, November 23, 2014 7:00:11 PM UTC-7, ted wrote:
>>
>> Deacon and Anne, thanks for the info.
>> Do you put the 100oz hydro pack/blader in a bike mounted bag or are you 
>> wearing those on your back?
>> Anne, sounds like you plan to go with well under 2gal of water storage. 
>> Have I got that right?
>> I get that somebody stoping to sleep/camp needs a bunch of gear that a 
>> nonstop rider doesn't, but the 2gal that site mentions seems like a whole 
>> lot more than I thought folks usually carry on a day (or two) ride. Are the 
>> water needs for the fast movers that much less than for those going at a 
>> more leisurely pace?
>>
>> thnks
>> Ted
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, November 22, 2014 10:34:15 AM UTC-8, Anne Paulson wrote:
>>>
>>> Because I'm taking the slow route, I'm going to carry way more stuff 
>>> than Jan. I'll have 
>>>
>>> tent 
>>> sleeping bag 
>>> pad 
>>> wool t shirt and lycra shorts for riding 
>>> wool jersey and wool legwarmers for riding when it's cold 
>>> off-bike clothes (I can't sit around in wet cycling clothing; I get 
>>> immediately chilled) 
>>> second pair of shorts (I know you guys can wear the same shorts two 
>>> days in a row, but that does not work for me at all) 
>>> wool hat 
>>> puffy jacket 
>>> rain clothes 
>>> little cookset of Trangia burner, titanium pot, Westwind pot stand, cup, 
>>> spork 
>>> food 
>>> Ursack food bag to protect food from marauders 
>>> 100 oz hydration pack 
>>> couple of 1 liter bladders for no-water section 
>>> water filter 
>>> food 
>>> tools, spare tubes 
>>> soap 
>>> first aid kit 
>>> bandannas, 1001 uses 
>>> meds & toiletries 
>>> probably my Tilley hat with a brim, for sun 
>>> probably some Crocs 
>>>
>>> The hydration pack plus the two bladders is about 5 liters. I might 
>>> also in the no-water section carry more water, not sure. I'm going to 
>>> have to camp dry one night. 
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 9:55 AM, ted  wrote: 
>>> > I am intrigued by the route but hough the trip sounds very appealing, 
>>> it 
>>> > also sounds very daunting. 
>>> > For example this from http://velodirt.com/the-oregon-outback/: 
>>> >  ... At the longest no-water section we each carried 2+ gallons of 
>>> water. 
>>> > ... 
>>> > 
>>> > Yet Jan Heine did it on a rando bike, and several riders did it in 
>>> about a 
>>> > day and a half. 
>>> > 
>>> > In another thread several posters say they are planing to do the ride 
>>> next 
>>> > season. If some of them would comment on how much stuff they plan to 
>>> carry 
>>> > and how they deal with water I would appreciate it. I am not sure how 
>>> I 
>>> > would go about hauling 2+ gallons on my bike. Grocery panniers and a 
>>> milk 
>>> > jug on either side? 
>>> > 
>>> > -- 
>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups 
>>> > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 
>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an 
>>> > email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. 
>>> > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. 
>>> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. 
>>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> -- Anne Paulson 
>>>
>>> It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. 
>>>
>>

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[RBW] The real reason to like Schwalbe superlight tubes

[ted]

They are so tiny. I mean they pack down really small. I fit two in my small 
flat fix pouch where only one regular tube fits.
I do however wonder how well they work once you put a patch on one. The 
patch doesn't stretch like the tube does. I makes an uneven hard spot. Will 
that make a patched superlight tube prone to tear?

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Re: [RBW] Oregon Outback and water

[ted]

Deacon and Anne, thanks for the info.
Do you put the 100oz hydro pack/blader in a bike mounted bag or are you 
wearing those on your back?
Anne, sounds like you plan to go with well under 2gal of water storage. 
Have I got that right?
I get that somebody stoping to sleep/camp needs a bunch of gear that a 
nonstop rider doesn't, but the 2gal that site mentions seems like a whole 
lot more than I thought folks usually carry on a day (or two) ride. Are the 
water needs for the fast movers that much less than for those going at a 
more leisurely pace?

thnks
Ted


On Saturday, November 22, 2014 10:34:15 AM UTC-8, Anne Paulson wrote:
>
> Because I'm taking the slow route, I'm going to carry way more stuff 
> than Jan. I'll have 
>
> tent 
> sleeping bag 
> pad 
> wool t shirt and lycra shorts for riding 
> wool jersey and wool legwarmers for riding when it's cold 
> off-bike clothes (I can't sit around in wet cycling clothing; I get 
> immediately chilled) 
> second pair of shorts (I know you guys can wear the same shorts two 
> days in a row, but that does not work for me at all) 
> wool hat 
> puffy jacket 
> rain clothes 
> little cookset of Trangia burner, titanium pot, Westwind pot stand, cup, 
> spork 
> food 
> Ursack food bag to protect food from marauders 
> 100 oz hydration pack 
> couple of 1 liter bladders for no-water section 
> water filter 
> food 
> tools, spare tubes 
> soap 
> first aid kit 
> bandannas, 1001 uses 
> meds & toiletries 
> probably my Tilley hat with a brim, for sun 
> probably some Crocs 
>
> The hydration pack plus the two bladders is about 5 liters. I might 
> also in the no-water section carry more water, not sure. I'm going to 
> have to camp dry one night. 
>
> On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 9:55 AM, ted > 
> wrote: 
> > I am intrigued by the route but hough the trip sounds very appealing, it 
> > also sounds very daunting. 
> > For example this from http://velodirt.com/the-oregon-outback/: 
> >  ... At the longest no-water section we each carried 2+ gallons of 
> water. 
> > ... 
> > 
> > Yet Jan Heine did it on a rando bike, and several riders did it in about 
> a 
> > day and a half. 
> > 
> > In another thread several posters say they are planing to do the ride 
> next 
> > season. If some of them would comment on how much stuff they plan to 
> carry 
> > and how they deal with water I would appreciate it. I am not sure how I 
> > would go about hauling 2+ gallons on my bike. Grocery panniers and a 
> milk 
> > jug on either side? 
> > 
> > -- 
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups 
> > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an 
> > email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com . 
> > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com 
> . 
> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. 
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 
>
>
>
> -- 
> -- Anne Paulson 
>
> It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. 
>

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[RBW] Oregon Outback and water

[ted]

I am intrigued by the route but hough the trip sounds very appealing, it 
also sounds very daunting.
For example this from http://velodirt.com/the-oregon-outback/:
 ... At the longest no-water section we each carried 2+ gallons of water. 
...

Yet Jan Heine did it on a rando bike, and several riders did it in about a 
day and a half.

In another thread several posters say they are planing to do the ride next 
season. If some of them would comment on how much stuff they plan to carry 
and how they deal with water I would appreciate it. I am not sure how I 
would go about hauling 2+ gallons on my bike. Grocery panniers and a milk 
jug on either side?

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[RBW] Joe Appaloosa sneak peek

[ted]

Check the blug, I think that's the Clem. Also seen in the two fish bottle cage?

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[RBW] Neat New Stuff (BLUG Holiday Mailer PDF)

[ted]

Got a paper coppy in the mail today. Very nice.

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[RBW] Re: Wheel Stabilizer or no?

[ted]

If it's mostly flop when parked on a kickstand that's the trouble, perhaps a 
twin leg stand would help.

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[RBW] this looks right.

[ted]

Front derailer?

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[RBW] SFR El Paseito Mixto Populaire 103k

[ted]

Anybody planing on riding this this Sat?

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[RBW] Re: Splinting a carbon frame

[ted]

Thanks

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[RBW] Splinting a carbon frame

[ted]

Pardon, but what is a greenstick fracture?

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Re: [RBW] Re: I love 42s

[ted]

Like you I think this is what Stonehog meant. If it is, then his issue is 
not that he wants fatter tires than will fit on his 700c Hilsen. It is that 
he prefers 650b over 700c for "wide" tires. So it's not that 42 is so much 
nicer than 38, its that 650b is much nicer than 700c (for him of course, Im 
not trying to make any sort of absolute global whats better than what sort 
of claim re wheel size).


On Thursday, October 9, 2014 8:58:20 AM UTC-7, EGNolan wrote:
>
> He was comparing his 700c bike w/ 38's to his 650b bike w/ 42's as many 
> have suggested he just try 38 Compass tires (which he states he already 
> did). 
>  
>
> On Thursday, October 9, 2014 9:36:52 AM UTC-4, ted wrote:
>
>> Stonehog, just to clarify, are you saying you feel a difference between 
>> 38 and 42 650b tires, or are you comparing 38 700c tires to 42 650b? Was 
>> the comparison done with a single bike?
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: I love 42s

[ted]

Stonehog, just to clarify, are you saying you feel a difference between 38 and 
42 650b tires, or are you comparing 38 700c tires to 42 650b? Was the 
comparison done with a single bike?

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Re: [RBW] Re: I love 42s

[ted]

By way of counterpoint,
Based on my recent experience going from 32s to 40+ on my AHH, I doubt I would 
feel much of a difference between 38 and 42. I'm not trying to say anybody who 
feels they have to have 42s is wrong, but for me I doubt it warrants he fuss. I 
expect some other folks might find the same if they did the experiment 
themselves.

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[RBW] Soon to arrive new to me and first Riv. Bombadil

[ted]

I think the bg r&r will be great. The quasi motos work very well on the 
Bombadil.
Congrats on the new to you bike. I bet you are going to love it.

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[RBW] Re: SONdelux or Shutter Precision SV-8 Dynamo Hub?

[ted]

I have mounted a light on a Paul Gino mount on the side of a nitto mini front 
rack. I did not care for the wheel shadow and off centre beam, so I moved the 
light to front center. I expect many others would have found the side mount 
fine.
YMMV

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[RBW] I love 42s

[ted]

You can order 58cm 650b AHHs from RBW new. I think the wait time is shorter 
than usual right now. I also think a 58 was posted on the list recently. I 
suspect a 60 Saluki is going to be a hard to get item. Since Legolass can still 
be ordered and single top tube Bombadils have been made, perhaps RBW would do a 
60cm 650b AHH as a special order for a minimal up charge ( I.e. Not the full 
cost for a custom bike).
Looking at your photo, I suspect you could get the fit you want with the 58 
size. Do you have 1cm of stem above the limit line hiding in your head tube?

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Re: [RBW] Re: LED Fender Lights: Spanninga vs. PDW Fenderbot

[ted]

ooops

On Thursday, September 25, 2014 8:19:09 PM UTC-7, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> S, don't give it away!
>
> Cheers,
> David
>
> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 8:15 PM, ted > 
> wrote:
>
>> I only know it from reading the online photographer blog (used to have a 
>> sidebar add for RBW and the author consulted G on some bike stuff btw).
>> The term came up in connection with Leica if I recall correctly.
>>
>> On Thursday, September 25, 2014 8:05:48 PM UTC-7, cyclot...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Had to look that one up!
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> David
>>>
>>> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 7:57 PM, ted  wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think Light and Motion has a Velben good thing going.
>>>>
>>>> On Thursday, September 25, 2014 7:36:40 PM UTC-7, cyclot...@gmail.com 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh snaps, just looked at the price on that one!
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> David
>>>>>
>>>>> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 7:18 PM, Dennis Hogan  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Peter
>>>>>> I also have this light and love it (I still have a dyno powered tail 
>>>>>> light as well). I would offer the caution that I have had it fall off 
>>>>>> its 
>>>>>> mounting, be it a leather or fabric loop, several times. Even if I have 
>>>>>> cinched it down as tight as possible with the mount. I have taken to 
>>>>>> using 
>>>>>> a zip tie to secure it. It is not cheap and I would hate to lose such an 
>>>>>> investment.
>>>>>> Dennis in PDX
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thursday, September 25, 2014 3:22:10 PM UTC-7, Father of Sam wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> David,
>>>>>>> I have an earlier version of this:
>>>>>>> http://www.lightandmotion.com/choose-your-light/vis-180/vis-
>>>>>>> 180-brown-shugga
>>>>>>> It is fantastic. It can either be 'on' (steady on, no flash), or 
>>>>>>> 'pulse' which does not flash, but rather 'glows' on and off.  It comes 
>>>>>>> with 
>>>>>>> the standard seat post/tube strap-mount, and has an easy 
>>>>>>> push-button-adjustment to affect its angle.  I've pondered inverting it 
>>>>>>> and 
>>>>>>> mounting it 'hack-style' to my rear fender, but have yet to make that a 
>>>>>>> reality.  I don't think it would be too difficult though, and pass this 
>>>>>>> idea to someone who might be a little more pro-active.
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> -Peter
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> (geez, I sure do lurk alot)
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, September 24, 2014 2:58:03 PM UTC-7, 
>>>>>>> cyclot...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Any feedback on these: http://www.rivbike.com/
>>>>>>>> Spanninga-Fender-Light-p/lt007.htm or these: http://www.amazon.com/
>>>>>>>> Portland-Design-Works-Fenderbot-Light/dp/B00428J5P2 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How do they compare to a Planet Bike Superflash that is in steady, 
>>>>>>>> not-superflashing mode (my only frame of reference)? 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Battery life real good on them?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Any other options I am overlooking?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So many questions...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  -- 
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>>>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
>>>>>> send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  -- 
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>>>
>>>  -- 
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Re: [RBW] Re: LED Fender Lights: Spanninga vs. PDW Fenderbot

[ted]

I only know it from reading the online photographer blog (used to have a 
sidebar add for RBW and the author consulted G on some bike stuff btw).
The term came up in connection with Leica if I recall correctly.

On Thursday, September 25, 2014 8:05:48 PM UTC-7, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Had to look that one up!
>
> Cheers,
> David
>
> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 7:57 PM, ted > 
> wrote:
>
>> I think Light and Motion has a Velben good thing going.
>>
>> On Thursday, September 25, 2014 7:36:40 PM UTC-7, cyclot...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Oh snaps, just looked at the price on that one!
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> David
>>>
>>> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 7:18 PM, Dennis Hogan  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Peter
>>>> I also have this light and love it (I still have a dyno powered tail 
>>>> light as well). I would offer the caution that I have had it fall off its 
>>>> mounting, be it a leather or fabric loop, several times. Even if I have 
>>>> cinched it down as tight as possible with the mount. I have taken to using 
>>>> a zip tie to secure it. It is not cheap and I would hate to lose such an 
>>>> investment.
>>>> Dennis in PDX
>>>>
>>>> On Thursday, September 25, 2014 3:22:10 PM UTC-7, Father of Sam wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> David,
>>>>> I have an earlier version of this:
>>>>> http://www.lightandmotion.com/choose-your-light/vis-180/vis-
>>>>> 180-brown-shugga
>>>>> It is fantastic. It can either be 'on' (steady on, no flash), or 
>>>>> 'pulse' which does not flash, but rather 'glows' on and off.  It comes 
>>>>> with 
>>>>> the standard seat post/tube strap-mount, and has an easy 
>>>>> push-button-adjustment to affect its angle.  I've pondered inverting it 
>>>>> and 
>>>>> mounting it 'hack-style' to my rear fender, but have yet to make that a 
>>>>> reality.  I don't think it would be too difficult though, and pass this 
>>>>> idea to someone who might be a little more pro-active.
>>>>>  
>>>>> -Peter
>>>>>  
>>>>> (geez, I sure do lurk alot)
>>>>> On Wednesday, September 24, 2014 2:58:03 PM UTC-7, cyclot...@gmail.com 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Any feedback on these: http://www.rivbike.com/
>>>>>> Spanninga-Fender-Light-p/lt007.htm or these: http://www.amazon.com/P
>>>>>> ortland-Design-Works-Fenderbot-Light/dp/B00428J5P2 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How do they compare to a Planet Bike Superflash that is in steady, 
>>>>>> not-superflashing mode (my only frame of reference)? 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Battery life real good on them?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any other options I am overlooking?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So many questions...
>>>>>>
>>>>>  -- 
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>
>>>
>>>  -- 
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>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: LED Fender Lights: Spanninga vs. PDW Fenderbot

[ted]

I think Light and Motion has a Velben good thing going.

On Thursday, September 25, 2014 7:36:40 PM UTC-7, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Oh snaps, just looked at the price on that one!
>
> Cheers,
> David
>
> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 7:18 PM, Dennis Hogan  > wrote:
>
>> Hi Peter
>> I also have this light and love it (I still have a dyno powered tail 
>> light as well). I would offer the caution that I have had it fall off its 
>> mounting, be it a leather or fabric loop, several times. Even if I have 
>> cinched it down as tight as possible with the mount. I have taken to using 
>> a zip tie to secure it. It is not cheap and I would hate to lose such an 
>> investment.
>> Dennis in PDX
>>
>> On Thursday, September 25, 2014 3:22:10 PM UTC-7, Father of Sam wrote:
>>
>>> David,
>>> I have an earlier version of this:
>>> http://www.lightandmotion.com/choose-your-light/vis-180/vis-
>>> 180-brown-shugga
>>> It is fantastic. It can either be 'on' (steady on, no flash), or 'pulse' 
>>> which does not flash, but rather 'glows' on and off.  It comes with the 
>>> standard seat post/tube strap-mount, and has an easy push-button-adjustment 
>>> to affect its angle.  I've pondered inverting it and mounting it 
>>> 'hack-style' to my rear fender, but have yet to make that a reality.  I 
>>> don't think it would be too difficult though, and pass this idea to someone 
>>> who might be a little more pro-active.
>>>  
>>> -Peter
>>>  
>>> (geez, I sure do lurk alot)
>>> On Wednesday, September 24, 2014 2:58:03 PM UTC-7, cyclot...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Any feedback on these: http://www.rivbike.com/Spanninga-Fender-Light-p/
 lt007.htm or these: http://www.amazon.com/Portland-Design-Works-
 Fenderbot-Light/dp/B00428J5P2 

 How do they compare to a Planet Bike Superflash that is in steady, 
 not-superflashing mode (my only frame of reference)? 

 Battery life real good on them?

 Any other options I am overlooking?

 So many questions...

>>>  -- 
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Fred Matheny roadbikerider.com Compass tire review...on a Roadeo!

[ted]

I think goat head thorns are in the 3 to 8mm range. The marathon smartguard 
blue layer is 5mm add some tread thickness and casing and I think they have 
a chance against even goatheads. 
Whether or not you want to ride tires like that is a whole different 
question. Some folks don't seem to mind the things others abhor about them.
You pays your money and you takes your chances.
The Jobst solution seems to be something like don't ride through where the 
vines grow, and get changes made that discourage their growth.
"Goat heads do not have feet of their own and do not travel far from

the plant unless someone travels through their midst.  I think if you
take a close look at these seed pods, you'll see they are made of
highly durable strong yet pliable wood.  Therefore, getting one or two
of them is a rarity and if you ride over a plant you will pick up at
least a dozen thorns.  If your tire-saver gets even half of them you
haven't gained anything.  On the other hand I have seen people sitting
at the roadside pulling them out of their tires and discarding them 

onto the street. Thanks! "
see http://yarchive.net/bike/puncture_vine.html for more

On Thursday, September 25, 2014 7:25:13 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Those might resist goatheads -- not certain from the photo -- but they 
> look as if they would be death to ride. 
>
> Several of the local remedies: best: Stan's, tubeless for low pressure 
> tires. Worse: Thick tire liners; the local roadies, pre-Stan's, would cut 
> the bead of a used racing tire and use it as a liner. Worst: heavy "thorn 
> proof" tubes with a half gallon of Slime inside heavy duty tires with an 
> added liner. The riding message those send is "take up curling". 
>
> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 7:00 PM, ted > 
> wrote:
>
>> Steve asks "...  is there *any* pneumatic tire, ..., that would be 
>> usable in goathead country without sealant?"
>> I think the super stout marathon variants with a thick layer of something 
>> under the tread would suffice. 
>> e.g. 
>> http://www.wiggle.co.uk/schwalbe-marathon-plus-smartguard-city-tyre-2013/
>>
>> -- 
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
>
> *
>   * "Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to 
> never was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from 
> it. Where is there a place for you to be? No place.*
> * "Nothing outside you can give you any place," he said. "You needn't to 
> look at the sky because it's not going to open up and show no place behind 
> it. You needn't to search for any hole in the ground to look through into 
> somewhere else. You can't go neither forwards nor backwards into your 
> daddy's time nor your children's if you have them. In yourself right now is 
> all the place you've got. If there was any Fall, look there, if there was 
> any Redemption, look there, and if you expect any Judgment, look there, 
> because they all three will have to be in your time and your body and where 
> in your time and your body can they be?*
> * "Where in your time and your body has Jesus redeemed you?" he cried. 
> "Show me where because I don't see the place. If there was a place where 
> Jesus had redeemed you that would be the place for you to be, but which of 
> you can find it?” -- *Flannery O'Connor,* Wise Blood  *
>  

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Re: [RBW] Fred Matheny roadbikerider.com Compass tire review...on a Roadeo!

[ted]

Yes it is hard to tell scale from the photo you used (btw where/how did you 
get it).
But the spines on goatheads are nothing like 2cm 
long. 
http://www.cottoncrc.org.au/industry/Publications/Weeds/Weed_IdentificationTools/Weeds_by_common_names/Cathead


On Thursday, September 25, 2014 6:50:24 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>  On 09/25/2014 09:00 PM, ted wrote:
>  
> Steve asks "...  is there *any* pneumatic tire, ..., that would be usable 
> in goathead country without sealant?" 
> I think the super stout marathon variants with a thick layer of something 
> under the tread would suffice. 
> e.g. 
> http://www.wiggle.co.uk/schwalbe-marathon-plus-smartguard-city-tyre-2013/
>  
>
> Hard to tell the scale, but I'm guessing those thorns are almost 2 cm 
> long.  I don't think even truck tire tread is that thick.
>
>  
> On Thursday, September 25, 2014 3:03:34 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote: 
>>
>>  On 09/25/2014 05:53 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>  
>> He runs his pressures high, at 150 lb: 25s at 100, 32s at 80. I run my 
>> 23s at sub 90/100 and my 30s at 60/70, and I'm 170-175. 
>>
>>  But that aside, good review. Wish he'd also reviewed the Roadeo.
>>
>>  Note that if the Stampedes are anywhere as nearly thin as the old 
>> Parigi Roubaix, they *will not be useable *in goathead country
>>  
>>
>> It's my understanding that all the Compass "Pass" tires have the same 
>> tread thickness.  I have the 28mm version, and the tread is *much* 
>> thicker than Parigi Roubaix.  You feel those and there's no detectable 
>> difference in thickness between the tread area and the sidewall area.  
>> Close your eyes and you'd never know where the "tread" begins and the 
>> sidewall ends.  
>>
>> That said, is there *any* pneumatic tire, even the thickest, most 
>> heavily armored, that would be usable in goathead country without sealant?
>>
>>
>>
>> Doesn't that give you "cowardly bowel syndrome" just looking at it?
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Fred Matheny roadbikerider.com Compass tire review...on a Roadeo!

[ted]

Steve asks "...  is there *any* pneumatic tire, ..., that would be usable 
in goathead country without sealant?"
I think the super stout marathon variants with a thick layer of something 
under the tread would suffice. 
e.g. http://www.wiggle.co.uk/schwalbe-marathon-plus-smartguard-city-tyre-2013/

On Thursday, September 25, 2014 3:03:34 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>  On 09/25/2014 05:53 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:
>  
> He runs his pressures high, at 150 lb: 25s at 100, 32s at 80. I run my 23s 
> at sub 90/100 and my 30s at 60/70, and I'm 170-175. 
>
>  But that aside, good review. Wish he'd also reviewed the Roadeo.
>
>  Note that if the Stampedes are anywhere as nearly thin as the old Parigi 
> Roubaix, they *will not be useable *in goathead country
>
>
> It's my understanding that all the Compass "Pass" tires have the same 
> tread thickness.  I have the 28mm version, and the tread is *much* 
> thicker than Parigi Roubaix.  You feel those and there's no detectable 
> difference in thickness between the tread area and the sidewall area.  
> Close your eyes and you'd never know where the "tread" begins and the 
> sidewall ends.  
>
> That said, is there *any* pneumatic tire, even the thickest, most heavily 
> armored, that would be usable in goathead country without sealant?
>
>
>
> Doesn't that give you "cowardly bowel syndrome" just looking at it?
>
>
>  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Considering my first Riv purchase and looking for helpful advice

[ted]

So of course you should do as you like and go threadless ever and always. I 
see absolutely no reason why you shouldn't.
But some of the rest of us find that the bars we want work with quill 
stems, and find the range of quill stems available perfectly adequate. 
Though threadless has dominated the market for what 15 years I don't think 
the last 5 or 10 have seen dramatic reductions in the availability of quill 
stems etc. I believe your implied prediction of their imminent demise is 
premature, and see no need to shun them for fear of being locked into 
something unobtainable.
Folks explaining how you can adjust bar height on threadless setups, and 
how its really easy, remind me of when I told people that gluing tubulars 
was simple. Easy is in the eye of the doer, and (aside from the advantages 
of removable face plates) I can't believe dealing with threadless is as 
easy as the quill system is. I think spacers above the stem on a threadless 
setup looks bad. You say I can buy a new fork if I want to raise my bars an 
inch? Yea, well you go ahead with that plan but I don't think I will.


On Wednesday, September 24, 2014 1:40:43 PM UTC-7, Jim Thill - Hiawatha 
Cyclery wrote:
>
> Of course, if someone is devoted to quill stems, then I would expect that 
> person to be devoted to "traditional" handlebar designs, to the exclusion 
> of newer designs. I personally think the Jones Loop bar is the best 
> all-around bar for my riding. I can't do that with a quill stem. There are 
> a lot more 31.8 bars than there are 26.0 bars nowadays. I prefer to have 
> the option rather than be locked in to a standard that appears to be dying, 
> or at least dwindling.
>
> On Wednesday, September 24, 2014 3:36:36 PM UTC-5, Jim Thill - Hiawatha 
> Cyclery wrote:
>>
>> For a lot of us, the ideal of a lifetime bike isn't realistic. Tastes 
>> often change faster than our bodies do. Anyway, I would point out that a 
>> new Surly fork with uncut steerer isn't much more costly than a Nitto quill 
>> stem. If you don't cut it too short at the beginning, which a lot of people 
>> do (and regret), then there shouldn't be an issue for many years.
>>
>> I would strongly suggest NOT threading a threadless fork. It seems very 
>> unsafe to me
>>
>> On Wednesday, September 24, 2014 1:22:03 PM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>>>
>>>  On 09/24/2014 01:10 PM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote:
>>>  
>>> I always thought the Cross-check was probably more comparable to the 
>>> Sam, but the LHT isn't far off. All three are smartly designed and 
>>> versatile. All three can be "lifetime bikes", if you want them to be. I've 
>>> extensively ridden a Disc Trucker, Cross-check, Atlantis, Romulus, and a 
>>> few test miles on a Sam. There isn't anything magical about the intrinsic 
>>> ride quality of the Sam compared to the two Surly models I mentioned, but 
>>> it does have an extra measure of cosmetic flair, which may or may not be 
>>> worth the extra cost and wait, depending on your point of view. Despite the 
>>> lower price of the Surly, I don't believe there's any sacrifice of 
>>> "quality", which is sometimes implied in any Surly vs Riv discussion. 
>>> Surly's quality control is the best of any company I've dealt with - they 
>>> almost never make mistakes.
>>>
>>> Here are a few technical details to consider. The Riv uses a 1" quill 
>>> stem, which has some advantage for quickly raising and lowering the bar, 
>>> but the quill stems currently available don't have a 31.8 clamp option. 
>>> Since 25.4/26.0 handlebars are getting fewer everyday, and 31.8 is 
>>> effectively "standard" now, you'll be opting out of some great handlebar 
>>> options with a standard quill stem (there are workarounds to solve this 
>>> problem, but it's better to not have the problem in the first place, IMO). 
>>> The Surly frames come with a threadless steerer, which makes switching to 
>>> different bars much easier/cheaper. In general, threaded steerers and quill 
>>> stems are regarded as outdated in the bicycle industry, and few 
>>> manufacturers are supporting that design anymore. That makes the Surly 
>>> somewhat more "future-proof" in regard to headsets, stems, and handlebars. 
>>> I see the quill stems as a fairly major inconvenience, but, of course, the 
>>> quill stems have an aesthetic effect that some people prefer, and I can't 
>>> argue that. A second consideration is how you plan to accessorize the bike. 
>>> Rivs tend to have rack braze-ons designed around the Nitto racks that they 
>>> sell, while Surly frames have braze-ons designed around more universal rack 
>>> designs. The rack thing shouldn't be a deal-breaker, because many racks 
>>> will fit on the back of a Riv, but it does get difficult if you want, say, 
>>> a Tubus low-rider rack on the fork of a Riv.
>>>
>>>  
>>> In my personal experience, the biggest issue regarding a "lifetime" 
>>> bicycle is the ability to adjust your position to physiological changes 
>>> that occur wi

Re: [RBW] Re: LED Fender Lights: Spanninga vs. PDW Fenderbot

[ted]

I have a Spanninga Pixio Xba I am planning to put on my SimpleOne's fender. 
I also have a PDW Radbot 1k and a dyno B&M TopLight Line.
The Radbot 1K is very bright on axis, but is a single small spot of 
brightness. The Pixio is fairly bright though not as bright as the Radbot, 
and also seems to be pretty much a dot when viewed from any distance. I 
like the way the linetec creates a larger illuminated area. I think the 
reflector portion of the Radbot is larger than the one on the Pixio, and 
the TopLight's is even larger.

If you have a place to mount it, you might consider the battery version of 
the TopLight (http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/lt009.htm)

On Wednesday, September 24, 2014 5:44:28 PM UTC-7, cyclot...@gmail.com 
wrote:
>
> I was looking at the dynamo powered one, but not a fan of the wiring 
> across the bike. The AAA rears typically last a while w/ rechargeable, so 
> not worried about that, just the brightness.
> Thanks! 
>
> Cheers,
> David
>
> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Andrew Marchant-Shapiro <
> marchan...@gmail.com > wrote:
>
>> I believe I have had good luck with the Spanninga Pixeo.  It is my sole 
>> active illumination to the rear, though I have reflective tape, the Pixeo's 
>> reflector, and an additional reflector on the rear rack.
>>
>> The Pixeo (dynamo version) is very bright--as bright IMO as some 
>> headlights I've used, but more distributed.
>>
>> It's best on dark roads, as others have observed.  But that's true for 
>> any powered light.
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[ted]

The Edelux lights use optics from B&M with the II version having optics 
like the new Cyo lights and the original (not II) being like the previous 
version of the Cyo (ie IQ not IQ2). Since the reflectors and LEDs are the 
same, the beams are too.
Choosing between the two brands is about price and features besides the 
primary beam. Want a metal housing and a glass front lens, buy the Edelux. 
Want daytime running lights, buy B&M. Want to save money, buy B&M. Want a 
switch for on/senso/off buy the Edelux. .

On Wednesday, September 24, 2014 11:03:11 AM UTC-7, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> I've used the Edeluxe and the Cyo--all of my dyno-powered bikes now have 
> various flavors of the Cyo. I haven't used the Edeluxe II, but I found the 
> beam pattern on the Cyo lights to be better than the original Edeluxe ... 
> at a lower cost. 
>
> I'm currently using one of the newer Cyo lights on my Blériot. I got the 
> slightly upgraded model that has a daytime running light and a 
> sensor-controlled full headlight. I like the light, and my only complaint 
> is that there's no way during the daytime to force the full headlight to 
> come on. During the day, it's either the daytime light or nothing. If I 
> could redesign the light, I would eliminate the  sensor function and have 
> three settings: Off/Daytime/Full 
>
> --Eric N 
> www.CampyOnly.com 
> CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com 
> Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy 
>
> > On Sep 24, 2014, at 9:03 AM, Jim Bronson  > wrote: 
> > 
> > Peter White carries the Lumotec IQ Premium Cyo which is $35 more 
> > expensive than the Eyc but about $80 less than the Edluxe II.  I have 
> > one of these IQ Premium Cyo Senso lights that I bought used off of 
> > this list and I love, love, love it.  It's 80lux and has the same 
> > optics as the Luxos and Edluxe II lights. 
> > 
> > I highly recommend this light any chance I get due to the value for 
> > the $.  I think it's just as good as the Edluxe II. 
> > 
> >> On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 10:46 AM, Jayme Frye  > wrote: 
> >> +1 on the B&M lights already mentioned. I run the Luxos U on my 
> >> camping/commuting bike for the USB charging and the tiny but super 
> bright 
> >> Eyc on my go fast gravel race bike. Both lights perform fabulously. 
> >> Cheers 
> >> 
> >> Jayme 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> On Tuesday, September 23, 2014 10:09:21 PM UTC-5, DS wrote: 
> >>> 
> >>> Getting my first dyno hub and light. Looking for advice on a light to 
> go 
> >>> with. Peter White's page is super helpful, but looking to get some 
> feedback 
> >>> from some real world usage as well. Considering the Eyc and the Luxos 
> B that 
> >>> Rivendell sell. Anyone have these that can comment? My thought is the 
> Eyc is 
> >>> cheaper, and I really don't ride at night very often. But as it is 
> starting 
> >>> to get dark earlier, I definitely want the option to take the bike out 
> in 
> >>> the evening and like the idea of a dyno light that is permanently 
> attached 
> >>> and no batteries. Type of night riding will be a combination of city 
> >>> streets, and occasional rides through more dimly lit neighborhoods and 
> >>> occasional dark country roads (If you're in the bay area, think 
> oakland 
> >>> hills/montclair/piedmont). No rando rides or night time trail riding. 
> >> 
> >> -- 
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> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down! 
> > 
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Re: [RBW] Re: SILVER crankset!!!!

[ted]

and whats the confidence interval ...

On Wednesday, September 24, 2014 6:54:30 AM UTC-7, Peter M wrote:
>
> But that's only true 75% of the time... :)
>
> On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 9:51 AM, Tim Gavin  > wrote:
>
>> Johan-
>>
>> I rode a super low-Q Stronglight 99 triple on my Riv Road for several 
>> months.  It's a very lovely, very narrow crank set.  I got it (from a list 
>> member) with standard extractor and pedal threading.
>>
>> However, these old French cranks have very little distance between the 
>> big ring and the crank arm (that's how they have such low Q factor), which 
>> makes them difficult to shift properly.  I couldn't use any modern FD with 
>> a sculpted outer plate or it would hit the crank arm.  I had decent luck 
>> with a vintage Suntour Cyclone double FD, shifted friction with Silver 
>> levers.  But with that setup it was still very reluctant to shift from the 
>> small cog to the middle without going to the big ring first.  
>>
>> A triple FD would have a sculpted inner plate to lift the chain better 
>> than the double FD, but I couldn't find any triple FDs, vintage or 
>> otherwise, that don't also have a scuplted outer plate.
>>
>> I recently swapped my Riv to drop bars and index shifting (8 speed Campy 
>> Ergos) and I couldn't get any FD to work with that Stronglight crank.  I 
>> ended up swapping the Campy Racing Triple crank back on, which shifts 
>> perfectly with the IRD Alpina FD.  
>>
>> I'm just pointing out that low-Q cranks with little space between the big 
>> ring and the crank arm do have some complications.  Whether those 
>> complications become drawbacks depends on your priorities.  :)
>>
>> With drops and Ergo shifters, my Riv is at least 17% faster.
>>
>> And 47% of all statistics are fictional.  :)
>>
>>
>>
 On Sep 23, 2014 7:20 PM, "Johan Larsson"  wrote:

> If I were to design a crankset I'd make it with chain ring bolts only 
> from the inside, like old SunTour XCM cranks but with a quite narrow gap 
> between the outer chain ring and crank arm. That way it's easy to run it 
> as 
> a wide double (48/28 for example) with 110/74 or any choice of available 
> chain rings and still having a narrow Q-factor.
>
> It's too bad Grant seems to have given up on striving to keep the 
> Q-factor low. (?) As far as I can tell, you wouldn't lose anything with 
> such a crank, there would only be advantages. If you'd need a wider 
> ring-crank arm gap for some mtb style bike with wide tires and a wide 
> cage 
> front shifter you can add spacers and run it with three rings. Or one. Or 
> four. If you have an old road bike you can keep it lean and narrow and 
> run 
> it as a double with almost an unlimited choice of chain ring combinations 
> and a Q-factor in the 130 mm range, still using standard chain rings. 
> This 
> winter I'm hoping to be able to make such a crank for myself, since I 
> finally have access to a lathe and having collected many old cranks I can 
> modify and take parts from.
>
> Johan Larsson,
> Sweden
>
> -- 

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[RBW] Re: Dyno light recommendation

[ted]

I have an Edelux 2 (RBW sells this one too) and a battery powered Ixon IQ.
I think PW says the beam from the newer Eyc is similar to that of the Ixon 
IQ but with the dim spot right in front of the wheel filled in. When I got 
my Ixon IQ I liked it much better than any light I had used before it, so I 
doubt you would be disappointed with the Eyc. The beam from the Edelux is 
broader than my Ixon and fills in close to the bike. The Edelux 2 is great 
too, but I don't vastly prefer its beam over the one from the Ixon. Perhaps 
I'm just not that discerning, others may have a different viewpoint.
The Edelux also has a glass front piece and an aluminum housing so it feels 
like a higher quality item than the plastic lights. 

You should also consider the "senso" feature (or lack thereof) on specific 
models you are considering. You may like having the light come on 
automatically if it starts getting dark towards the end of a ride, or have 
it go off when it gets light after starting out before dawn. Or you may 
prefer to make your own decisions about on or off.

Oh and while you are at it, the linetec dyno tail light is pretty neat too.

On Tuesday, September 23, 2014 8:09:21 PM UTC-7, DS wrote:
>
> Getting my first dyno hub and light. Looking for advice on a light to go 
> with. Peter White's page is super helpful, but looking to get some feedback 
> from some real world usage as well. Considering the Eyc and the Luxos B 
> that Rivendell sell. Anyone have these that can comment? My thought is the 
> Eyc is cheaper, and I really don't ride at night very often. But as it is 
> starting to get dark earlier, I definitely want the option to take the bike 
> out in the evening and like the idea of a dyno light that is permanently 
> attached and no batteries. Type of night riding will be a combination of 
> city streets, and occasional rides through more dimly lit neighborhoods and 
> occasional dark country roads (If you're in the bay area, think oakland 
> hills/montclair/piedmont). No rando rides or night time trail riding. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: SILVER crankset!!!!

[ted]

Many factors come into play. At the moment I have a sugino crankset from 
RBW with 24/33/43 rings on it mounted on my Bombadil with a 107mm cartridge 
bb. Its close but despite the curves everything clears the chainstay. Mind 
you a 26 small ring would not clear with that bb, so ...

On Tuesday, September 23, 2014 5:04:10 PM UTC-7, Peter M wrote:
>
> I thought since some of the Rivendell models have bowed chainstays you 
> could only have so low of a q factor. Or I might be totally wrong too. 
> On Sep 23, 2014 7:20 PM, "Johan Larsson"  > wrote:
>
>> If I were to design a crankset I'd make it with chain ring bolts only 
>> from the inside, like old SunTour XCM cranks but with a quite narrow gap 
>> between the outer chain ring and crank arm. That way it's easy to run it as 
>> a wide double (48/28 for example) with 110/74 or any choice of available 
>> chain rings and still having a narrow Q-factor.
>>
>> It's too bad Grant seems to have given up on striving to keep the 
>> Q-factor low. (?) As far as I can tell, you wouldn't lose anything with 
>> such a crank, there would only be advantages. If you'd need a wider 
>> ring-crank arm gap for some mtb style bike with wide tires and a wide cage 
>> front shifter you can add spacers and run it with three rings. Or one. Or 
>> four. If you have an old road bike you can keep it lean and narrow and run 
>> it as a double with almost an unlimited choice of chain ring combinations 
>> and a Q-factor in the 130 mm range, still using standard chain rings. This 
>> winter I'm hoping to be able to make such a crank for myself, since I 
>> finally have access to a lathe and having collected many old cranks I can 
>> modify and take parts from.
>>
>> Johan Larsson,
>> Sweden
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Blug post

[ted]

Are external bearing cranks supposed to be less expensive to make? Why is that?

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[RBW] Re: I just can't say NO! (to Quickbeams)

[ted]

I asked about that a bit once. I believe the potential for surface rust 
under powdercoat is always there, its just that with pigment you don't see 
it.

On Thursday, September 18, 2014 11:26:37 AM UTC-7, cyclot...@gmail.com 
wrote:
>
> If one is good, two must be great!
>
> Inaugural ride this morning taking the kids to school. 
>
> Success all the way around!
>
> Anecdotal evidence says the clear coats are slightly hydrophilic and lead 
> to some surface rust underneath them. Or maybe that happens under every 
> powdercoating and you just don't normally see it!!!
>
>
> On Thursday, September 18, 2014 10:00:32 AM UTC-7, Pondero wrote:
>>
>> Excellent, and congrats on the dual QB status!  For the record, I also 
>> have long craved a clear powder coat Riv.  I expect I'll refinish my QB, 
>> Hilsen, or both one day.
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] barend shifters on a bike with top tube derailer cables

[ted]

Hey Tim,
Thanks for explaining.
Ted

On Thursday, September 18, 2014 6:18:30 AM UTC-7, Tim Gavin wrote:
>
> Crossing the right/rear over to the left side makes the cable housing loop 
> around the outside of the head tube, minimizing rub on the paint.  It makes 
> for a longer housing but with a wider radius curve.  You can usually cross 
> the cable back over pretty easily, either on the downtube for traditional 
> shift mount points, or behind the seat cluster for a bike with top tube 
> routing.
>
> I recently built up a gravel bike for my girlfriend out of a late 90s 
> Univega Alpina 504 (DB CroMo frame, Deore LX group, top tube cable 
> routing).  I ran bar-end shifters on Nitto RM-14 dirt drops, and crossed 
> the housing to minimize rub.  The right/rear goes to the left side of the 
> top tube, runs all the way on the left side, and crosses over behind.below 
> the seat tube cluster, and continues down the right seat stay to the rear 
> derailer.  The left/front crosses over to the right side of the top tube, 
> and transitions from the right side to the top-center for the top-pull 
> derailer.  Sorry, no pics yet.
>
> No problem with that top pull FD, a late 90s Deore LX.
>
> Tim
>
> On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 9:55 PM, ted > 
> wrote:
>
>> I have ben experimenting with running shift cables on my top tube. Seems 
>> to me the right / rear shifter should go on the right side of the top tube 
>> so it runs onto the right seat stay and down to the rd cleanly. Why do you 
>> chose to take the right shifter cable to the left side of the top tube?
>>
>> While on the topic of routing shift cable up top, any opinions on top 
>> pull fd's?
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, September 17, 2014 7:44:53 PM UTC-7, Philip Williamson 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I've had two mountain bikes with derailleur cables running over the top 
>>> tube. I like it. My Singular with full derailleur housing down the down 
>>> tube bugged me so much I made the bike a singlespeed. I second the idea of 
>>> asking for normal cable stops. Right shifter cable crosses the head tube, 
>>> and goes onto the left side of the top tube. 
>>>
>>> Philip
>>> www.biketinker.com
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Packing S&S-coupled Riv - Tips, Tools & Gears to make it easier?

[Ted Shwartz]

Tom

I used it for packing an uncoupled bike. The next bike will be S&S 
coupled. By undoing the front bolts on the MOTUS stem you can position the 
handlebars in the box (in your case the S&S case) as needed. Just make sure 
that your cables have enough slack, or disconnects. This is very similar to 
what I do for my tandem when I pack it in its bikepro case. 

Regards
Ted

On Tuesday, September 16, 2014 5:26:38 PM UTC-4, Pudge wrote:
>
>  Ted:
>
>  
>
> Did you use this stem for packing an S&S coupled bike?  I take it turning 
> the bars wasn’t enough to get the bike into the case safely, and this stem 
> allowed you to take the bars off altogether without affecting taping, 
> controls, etc.?
>
>  
>
> Tom
>
>  
>
> *From:* rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com  [mailto:
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com ] *On Behalf Of *Ted Shwartz
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 16, 2014 1:37 PM
> *To:* rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com 
> *Subject:* [RBW] Re: Packing S&S-coupled Riv - Tips, Tools & Gears to 
> make it easier?
>
>  
>  
> Pierre
>  
>  
>  
> in 2001 I purchased a 3T "MOTUS" quill stem with removable faceplate 
> (held on by 2 bolts). Enclosed are a couple of photos, one of which is a 
> little blurry. They show the stem. Maybe you can find one somewhere. This 
> is a great stem because you can pull the handlebars off without having to 
> untape, or remove controls.
>  
>  
>  
> Here is a listing for one on ebay: 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Old-Stock-3T-Motus-Quill-Stem-w-Silver-Finish-26-0-mm-clamp-x-120-mm-/390372950036
>  
>  
>  
> Mine has worked for 13 years and 35,000 miles
>  
>  
>  
> Regards
>  
> Ted
>
> On Sunday, September 7, 2014 11:39:00 PM UTC-4, Pierre wrote:
>  
> Hello Bunch, S&S-coupled Riv owners:
>  
>  
>  
> I am getting my 59 cm Hilsen retrofitted with S&S couplers. It's not a 
> gigantic frame but not exactly a small frame either. I already anticipate a 
> couple of issues and would like a couple of tips.
>  
>  
>  
> 1/ Handlebar: is there such thing out there as a quill stem w/ removable 
> front plate? is it worthwhile to investigate threadless adapter + ahead 
> stem?
>  
>  
>  
> 2/ Fork: (not sure yet if I'll need to remove it) anybody tried the the 
> Velo Orange rinko headset? (or have a spare American Classic Trilock?)
>  
>  
>  
> Anything things you've learned over the years to make packing/un-packing 
> easy? Or add. tools/gears?
>   
>  
>  
> Thank you.
>  
>  
>  
> Pierre
>  
>  
>   
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Re: [RBW] barend shifters on a bike with top tube derailer cables

[ted]

I have ben experimenting with running shift cables on my top tube. Seems to 
me the right / rear shifter should go on the right side of the top tube so 
it runs onto the right seat stay and down to the rd cleanly. Why do you 
chose to take the right shifter cable to the left side of the top tube?

While on the topic of routing shift cable up top, any opinions on top pull 
fd's?

On Wednesday, September 17, 2014 7:44:53 PM UTC-7, Philip Williamson wrote:
>
> I've had two mountain bikes with derailleur cables running over the top 
> tube. I like it. My Singular with full derailleur housing down the down 
> tube bugged me so much I made the bike a singlespeed. I second the idea of 
> asking for normal cable stops. Right shifter cable crosses the head tube, 
> and goes onto the left side of the top tube. 
>
> Philip
> www.biketinker.com
>

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[RBW] Re: New Kryptonite Bike Lock Idea

[ted]

How about the rear wheel?

On Monday, September 15, 2014 7:31:44 PM UTC-7, lungimsam wrote:
>
>  
>>
>> I use a really long Kryptonite lock like this that goes around my 
>> downtube, straddles the sign post, and around the rim to secure them all 
>> with one lock
>>
>
>  
> https://www.kryptonitelock.com/Pages/ProductInformation.aspx?PNumber=001058 
>
>> .
>>
> Just back the DT up to the sign post whil turning bars to left so that 
> wheel and rim go on opposite side of signpost. Run the ulock through them 
> all and secure shackle. 
>

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[RBW] Re: suggestions for a bike computer?

[ted]

Certainly agree with your reasoning and conclusions. There is a lot of 
computation involved in just getting a gps position fix. All the derived 
stuff the gamins provide (speed, distance, vertical rate, grade, feet 
climbed, etc.) involves more computing. Plenty of room for errors. Could be 
bugs, poor numerical methods, or just limits of accuracy in the system. In 
any case if adding the speed-cadence thing eliminates the jumps, that 
clearly implies the GPS only system is deficient.

Roughly what size jumps you are you seeing? Do they show up in the time 
history plots? Can you say what sort of duration and frequency the jumps 
have?
I'm thinking I should try to look for them with my 510. Perhaps I just 
haven't noticed them even though they are there, perhaps the GLONASS make a 
difference. I'm kinda curious.

On Monday, September 15, 2014 6:53:26 PM UTC-7, Benz, Sunnyvale, CA wrote:
>
> I'm not sure if it is specific to my 500 or includes other units. 
> Certainly, the jumps are small but they are noticeable and consistent, even 
> when under clear skies and constant speed on a straight road. They do 
> disappear abruptly when the Garmin sensor is installed which gave some a 
> clue. Nevertheless, the speed that GPS-based units display must be 
> calculated instead of measured like with the Cateyes. If GPS signal isn't 
> optimal, it is conceivable (doesn't mean it's the real reason) that the 
> calculation reveals the lag in positioning.
>
>
> On Monday, September 15, 2014 9:35:14 PM UTC-4, ted wrote:
>>
>> I have never noticed the speed reading jumping around on my Garmin 510, 
>> exepct when I hooked up a speed cadence sensor and didn't set the wheel 
>> size.
>> I this erratic speed reading you speak of a feature of all Garmin units? 
>> Is it limited to those that don't use GLONASS and GPS? Is it all the time 
>> every where or limited to specific situations? 
>>
>> On Monday, September 15, 2014 5:45:53 PM UTC-7, Benz, Sunnyvale, CA wrote:
>>>
>>> Although it is true that the Garmins do not require anything more than a 
>>> quick charge, the speed reading without the optional speed/cadence sensor 
>>> tends to jump around. While I don't believe this impact average speed much, 
>>> I can't stand the lack of precision from such a measuring device (without 
>>> its optional speed/cadence sensor that further optionally can be 
>>> calibrated).
>>>
>>> The Cateye Strada wireless units are (relatively cheap), have big main 
>>> numbers (speed), only need a battery change once every year or so, and is 
>>> better than 1% accurate even if you follow the lookup table on the 
>>> instruction sheet. You don't have to break out your measuring tape and 
>>> inscribe markings on the garage floor if you don't want to, although doing 
>>> so will give you better than ppt (parts per thousand) accuracy.
>>>
>>> The Knog meters are more or less a joke because of their mounting 
>>> system. They use the same silicone straps that are quite useful on lights 
>>> but are dreadful on both the display/head and sensor units. The straps slip 
>>> easily. I have two sets that I got cheap but I don't use anymore.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, September 15, 2014 12:40:19 AM UTC-4, ted wrote:
>>>>
>>>> though you can probably get a nice basic unit for 1/100 the $$, the 
>>>> garmin 510 is nice. Being gps it needs no wires or wheel magnets or 
>>>> pickups. It can be mounted on your bars or just thrown in a pocket or bag. 
>>>> You can load routes to it and have it beep at you when turns are coming 
>>>> up. 
>>>> you can pick what and how much info is displayed on the screen at one 
>>>> time, 
>>>> and you can set up several screens that you can page through or just stick 
>>>> with one.
>>>>
>>>> On Sunday, September 14, 2014 8:39:48 PM UTC-7, Neil wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Despite historical resistance to the idea, I am contemplating a bike 
>>>>> computer for my Sam, the better with which to follow cue sheets and the 
>>>>> like. Any suggestions from the Bunch? I suppose I would prefer wireless, 
>>>>> and a small, modest screen.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>> Neil
>>>>>
>>>>

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[RBW] Re: suggestions for a bike computer?

[ted]

I have never noticed the speed reading jumping around on my Garmin 510, 
exepct when I hooked up a speed cadence sensor and didn't set the wheel 
size.
I this erratic speed reading you speak of a feature of all Garmin units? Is 
it limited to those that don't use GLONASS and GPS? Is it all the time 
every where or limited to specific situations? 

On Monday, September 15, 2014 5:45:53 PM UTC-7, Benz, Sunnyvale, CA wrote:
>
> Although it is true that the Garmins do not require anything more than a 
> quick charge, the speed reading without the optional speed/cadence sensor 
> tends to jump around. While I don't believe this impact average speed much, 
> I can't stand the lack of precision from such a measuring device (without 
> its optional speed/cadence sensor that further optionally can be 
> calibrated).
>
> The Cateye Strada wireless units are (relatively cheap), have big main 
> numbers (speed), only need a battery change once every year or so, and is 
> better than 1% accurate even if you follow the lookup table on the 
> instruction sheet. You don't have to break out your measuring tape and 
> inscribe markings on the garage floor if you don't want to, although doing 
> so will give you better than ppt (parts per thousand) accuracy.
>
> The Knog meters are more or less a joke because of their mounting system. 
> They use the same silicone straps that are quite useful on lights but are 
> dreadful on both the display/head and sensor units. The straps slip easily. 
> I have two sets that I got cheap but I don't use anymore.
>
>
> On Monday, September 15, 2014 12:40:19 AM UTC-4, ted wrote:
>>
>> though you can probably get a nice basic unit for 1/100 the $$, the 
>> garmin 510 is nice. Being gps it needs no wires or wheel magnets or 
>> pickups. It can be mounted on your bars or just thrown in a pocket or bag. 
>> You can load routes to it and have it beep at you when turns are coming up. 
>> you can pick what and how much info is displayed on the screen at one time, 
>> and you can set up several screens that you can page through or just stick 
>> with one.
>>
>> On Sunday, September 14, 2014 8:39:48 PM UTC-7, Neil wrote:
>>>
>>> Despite historical resistance to the idea, I am contemplating a bike 
>>> computer for my Sam, the better with which to follow cue sheets and the 
>>> like. Any suggestions from the Bunch? I suppose I would prefer wireless, 
>>> and a small, modest screen.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Neil
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: suggestions for a bike computer?

[ted]

Patrick is making good points here. In fact I think that though cue sheets 
are often provided with gps route files now, they are much older than bike 
computers and intended to help you follow a route with a map. I think I 
read in one of Jan's blog posts that he never uses a bike computer.

That said if you do carry a smartphone and you do use a gamin 510 (and I 
expect several other models) and you do have cell coverage where you ride, 
you can have the gamin pass your position info to the internets via the 
phone and folks you invite can follow you on a web page. That may be of 
interest to some, though some may find the idea abhorrent too. Of course 
there is also the post ride upload option with sites like gamin connect, 
strava, and ridewithgps.

One last point on the Garmin 510. That model has the option to use GLONASS 
satellites in addition to the GPS satellites. Doing so increases the number 
of satellites in view, improves accuracy, and is reputed to reduce or 
eliminate drop outs in some areas heavy tree coverage.

On Monday, September 15, 2014 6:10:36 AM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> I'll make an argument for heeding your historical resistance. Grin.
>
> Map and compass and the increased awareness of distance that comes from 
> not relying on gadgets. I realize this is what you've been using, but I 
> would encourage you to keep using it. I understand cue sheets are written 
> presuming such a computer, but I've always found it plenty easy to navigate 
> without them. Of course I'm never in hurry and when there is the rare 
> occasional navigational puzzler I don't mind the time and adventure. If you 
> do get something, I'd suggest using it only as an aid at the head 
> scratchers. If you carry an iPhone or smart phone with you, you can utilize 
> the GPS and map in it at these times and not carry anything additional.
>
> There is something very satisfying in having the skill to navigate without 
> gadgetry -- a skill that none can take away. The feel for how far you've 
> come, though the road is windy and steep and you are tired, the feeling of 
> not knowing exactly where you are but still knowing where you are going and 
> roughly how far you've come and have yet to go. Plus, there isn't the 
> constant temptation to ride to the numbers, which I always find lessens my 
> enjoyment of a ride.
>
> Of course this approach drive folks nuts who bike with me. "How far 
> to...?" They ask. "Yea far," I answer. They eventually give up, though they 
> still scratch their heads. Grin. 
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>

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[RBW] Re: suggestions for a bike computer?

[ted]

though you can probably get a nice basic unit for 1/100 the $$, the garmin 
510 is nice. Being gps it needs no wires or wheel magnets or pickups. It 
can be mounted on your bars or just thrown in a pocket or bag. You can load 
routes to it and have it beep at you when turns are coming up. you can pick 
what and how much info is displayed on the screen at one time, and you can 
set up several screens that you can page through or just stick with one.

On Sunday, September 14, 2014 8:39:48 PM UTC-7, Neil wrote:
>
> Despite historical resistance to the idea, I am contemplating a bike 
> computer for my Sam, the better with which to follow cue sheets and the 
> like. Any suggestions from the Bunch? I suppose I would prefer wireless, 
> and a small, modest screen.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Neil
>

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[RBW] Re: QB BB spec

[ted]

Think mine came with a 107 cartridge in it. Changed it out for a PW so I could 
fine tune the chain line. That was the shortest one RBW stocks, 108? Works very 
well with old suntour superb track crank.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Quickbeam 52cm?

[ted]

I am fairly certain that at least one run of quickbeams included a 650B 52cm 
frame. If you search you will find photos. I suspect they are rare as hens 
teeth though. Probably worth calling RBW to make sure they don't have a 
leftover hiding in the attic.

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[RBW] Re: FS: Blue Bullmoose bar

[ted]

What size please. The first ones were 150, later they added a 200 for those who 
wanted more reach.

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[RBW] Re: Loup/Cypres decision paralysis on 650b tire width...38 vs. 32mm...again

[ted]

As somebody else suggested, the only way you are going to know what the 
difference is like to you is to buy the other kind and try them.
Some folks will tell you 42 is hugely different. So far I don't find the 
difference between the 32 cypres I was riding a bit ago and the 41 GR I am 
riding now to be that great. The only person who can tell how things will 
feel to you is you.
I suggest that you measure your brakes to find out what will fit through 
them inflated, buy that size and see how you do.

Oh and don't compare different width tires at the same pressure. At the 
same pressure, a wider tire feels harder. At 50psi a 22mm tubular is very 
cushy (at least till it bottoms out on the rim). In theory tire volume has 
no direct impact on how cushy the ride is. Spring rate of a tire is 
governed by contact patch size and derivative (neglecting casing 
stiffness). It is not a pv=nrt delta volume thing at all.

On Friday, August 29, 2014 9:19:27 PM UTC-7, lungimsam wrote:
>
>
> Sorts the same thread as before, but with more detailed questions below I 
> am considering before I buy.
> I love my Hetres, but if the 38 or 32mm tires feel and work just as well 
> and will pass thru my R559 brakes without having to deflate them, then why 
> not get them for the next set?
> Nit picky, I know, but trying to optimize for my next set of tires.
>
> I was thinking the Loup 38's, but thought I could even go to Cypres 32's. 
> I just ride roads/MUPS. Definitely want normal casings. Not the extra 
> legers.
>
> *Was thinking about these issues:*
>
> *1. Which, in theory, has the least likelihood of punctures (tread 
> thickness and inflation pressures)?*
> Tread thickness on Loups is 3mm.
> Tread thickness on Cypres is 3.5? (I think the same as the 3.5 
> tread Hetre?).
> Can both be ridden at 50psi? Compass site doesn't say inflation ranges of 
> the tires.
> Sounds like both the same likelihood of puncture of they can be ridden at 
> 50psi for less debris hammerability into tread?
>
> *2. Cushy, soft, road-buzz-dampening ride.* Loup is higher volume than 
> the other, so in theory, the Loup should be more cushy, but don't know if I 
> will notice a diff between the tires, being as they are both wide and if 
> they can both be ridden at 50psi.
>
> Any info is appreciated. 
> Also interested to see what a sub-300 gram tire (Cypres) feels like to 
> ride.
>
> Not sure if any of this will even make a difference for an un-racer like 
> me.
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Results of 6503 conversion to wide/low double

[ted]

Michael,

Thanks for explaining your take on this. 

On Friday, August 29, 2014 3:57:16 PM UTC-7, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> I run 9 speed.  My Saluki & Trek  have triples (48/34/26 or 24) and I run 
> a 12-27 cassette and that clearly gives me a better low and more closely 
> spaced gear choices.  Why 9 spd?  Basically I skipped 8.  I was running 7 
> speed freewheels well into the time 9 speed cassette were standard.  Around 
> 2000 it was getting hard to find decent freewheels (its actually easier 
> now) so I made the jump to 9 speed cassette hubs.  I like  a 4-1 big gear 
> (52/13; 48/12; 44/11) because it gives me some extra jump in rolling 
> terrain both to get up to speed on the downhill and to maintain momentum on 
> the uphills.  I like the 9 spd with a 12 cog because I can use a 48 ring 
> and get to smaller gears when needed.  The 12/27 seems right for me 
> although the 14 to16 is a wee bit more than I like.
>
> My Ram has a double  because I like the variety, because you can slam a 
> dbl around faster than a triple, and because the shorter derailers are 
> faster and more reliable.  Clearly the 44/30 sacrifices a gear and half at 
> the bottom but by using the 11/28 I don't give up anything at the top.  I 
> ride a lot of country roads where short ramps of 12-16% are common and 
> getting into a low gear quickly  gets rewarded.  In the 30/28 I can 
> maintain a decent cadence at 8%, manage 10% for awhile and suffer through 
> the steeper stuff.   I recently did a major climb (1600 ft of gain in 4 
> miles) on the Ram, with that 30/28.  No doubt a 24/27 would have been 
> easier.
>
> With gearing, everything is a trade off - top & bottom; gear spacing, 
> shifting pattern.  There not only is no one right answer, there isn't even 
> one perfect answer for any cyclist.  
> Michael
>
> On Friday, August 29, 2014 12:06:42 PM UTC-4, ted wrote:
>>
>> Michael,
>>
>> If you would prefer more closely spaced gears (13,14,15 vs 13,15) why 
>> don't you use a tighter cassette and a third chainring?
>> Also are you using 8sp? I thought 11-18s usually went 14,16 not 13,15.
>>
>> On Friday, August 29, 2014 4:31:41 AM UTC-7, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>>>
>>> The front shift up is a bit slower but the real issue is searching for 
>>> the next gear way at the other end of the cassette.  I run an 11-28 and 
>>> have a strong preference for closely spaced gears.  The jump from 13 to 15 
>>> is already larger than I like, so I certainly wouldn't go any wider.  With 
>>> The 44/30  White VBC crank & ramped rings, a campy FD & short cage Shimano 
>>> 6700 in the rear this bike shifts so smoothly that I never give a thought 
>>> to dropping or raising the front..  When I drop the chain I know I am 
>>> always 2 rear clicks from the next gear.  The Silver DT shifters give the 
>>> ability to jump across the cassette when I need to, which is rare.  This is 
>>> all on the Ram and is the best shifting bike I have ridden in 35 years, 
>>> including Ultegra SIS.  
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 27, 2014 6:33:00 PM UTC-4, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 08/27/2014 06:17 PM, Michael Hechmer wrote: 
>>>> > let us know how it works for you.  My one experiment with a 16 tooth 
>>>> > difference left me unhappy with the shifting pattern.  But I ride a 
>>>> > lot of rolling terrain where fast shifting gets rewarded, so that 
>>>> > probably influenced my reaction. 
>>>>
>>>> Is it that the front shift itself is slow, or that the multiple rear 
>>>> shifts necessary to get to the next closest gear are the source of the 
>>>> slowness? 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Results of 6503 conversion to wide/low double

[ted]

Michael,

If you would prefer more closely spaced gears (13,14,15 vs 13,15) why don't 
you use a tighter cassette and a third chainring?
Also are you using 8sp? I thought 11-18s usually went 14,16 not 13,15.

On Friday, August 29, 2014 4:31:41 AM UTC-7, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> The front shift up is a bit slower but the real issue is searching for the 
> next gear way at the other end of the cassette.  I run an 11-28 and have a 
> strong preference for closely spaced gears.  The jump from 13 to 15 is 
> already larger than I like, so I certainly wouldn't go any wider.  With The 
> 44/30  White VBC crank & ramped rings, a campy FD & short cage Shimano 6700 
> in the rear this bike shifts so smoothly that I never give a thought to 
> dropping or raising the front..  When I drop the chain I know I am always 2 
> rear clicks from the next gear.  The Silver DT shifters give the ability to 
> jump across the cassette when I need to, which is rare.  This is all on the 
> Ram and is the best shifting bike I have ridden in 35 years, including 
> Ultegra SIS.  
>
> Michael
>
> On Wednesday, August 27, 2014 6:33:00 PM UTC-4, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>>
>> On 08/27/2014 06:17 PM, Michael Hechmer wrote: 
>> > let us know how it works for you.  My one experiment with a 16 tooth 
>> > difference left me unhappy with the shifting pattern.  But I ride a 
>> > lot of rolling terrain where fast shifting gets rewarded, so that 
>> > probably influenced my reaction. 
>>
>> Is it that the front shift itself is slow, or that the multiple rear 
>> shifts necessary to get to the next closest gear are the source of the 
>> slowness? 
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] FS: Blue Bullmoose bar

[ted]

150 or 200 size?

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Re: [RBW] How would you build it?

[ted]

Thanks for the details

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Re: [RBW] Re: Un-racer compact crankset question.

[ted]

Did they say there was demand for a 43? The TA 33 is available from Harris 
cyclery too.

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Re: [RBW] How would you build it?

[ted]

Pray tell, what wheels and tubulars didn't compare?

On Sunday, August 17, 2014 4:37:37 PM UTC-7, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> I rode tubes in my salad days, and a few years ago rebuilt some wheels and 
> did the deja vu thing.  They didn't compare with the the Grand Bois Cerf 
> (29MM) on a pair of Open Pro 28/32 spoke wheels.
>
> At some point we need to sort out whether we are rebuilding an antique for 
> show, or a classic to ride.  I would go with a good set of light weight 
> wheels; hi quality 27-29 mm tires; a good compact double and classic Campy 
> Brakes.  
>
> I have a nice pair of drilled Mafac levers I'd be happy to sell.  I found 
> my habit of resting a water bottle on the bars and the brake cables weren't 
> a good combo, despite the classic look.
>
> Michael
>
> On Sunday, August 17, 2014 1:15:14 PM UTC-4, Jason Leach wrote:
>>
>> It is fun to think of build ideas.  My thoughts were to try out a classic 
>> inspired build with non aero brake levers and tubular tires. I have never 
>> ridden tubs before.   
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Un-racer compact crankset question.

[ted]

Actually TA do make a 33t. I think it would be great if RBW would add a 110 
33t option to the collection of SILVER rings. 

On Saturday, August 16, 2014 6:41:25 PM UTC-7, Cyclofiend Jim wrote:
>
> Simple bashtype guard:
>
> https://www.rivbike.com/product-p/chrg.htm
>
> Also, I've been running the XD2 without the small ring, but I think 
> couldn't get down below a 34T inner ring for the 110 circle.
>
> - J / cyclofiend.com
>

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[RBW] New build: Soma GR, and a question

[ted]

I'm a bit confused. Are you routing the fd cable along the top tube and then 
down the seat tube? That is the way a top pull fd is designed to work. Pictures 
look like you have standard down tube cable route for your fd.

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Re: [RBW] Re: One week without a front derailleur

[ted]

Which sounds fine. Alternatively can't one go to smaller rings and get a 
similar effect with stock cassettes?

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Re: [RBW] Re: One week without a front derailleur

[ted]

All perfectly valid and true etc. I was just pulling your leg, or poking 
some fun, or whatever. Of course by all means try the 1x9 on the road bike 
and have fun. It sure sounds fun.
If you ever do find your way south east of sunol, welch creek is a nice 
wooded, narrow, lightly traveled, dead end road (albeit steep), that gives 
access to the top/back side of sunol regional wilderness. Going up welch 
and down through the park is a nice mixed terrain ride. Calaveras to and 
from welch, well eh. I guess it can't all be great all the time.

On Saturday, August 9, 2014 3:26:09 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Oh, I see.  I promise that if I choose to tackle the steepest climbs in 
> any particular geographic area, I'll bring a low gear.  If I had to grab 
> one of my bikes down off the hook right now and do Welch Road, I suppose 
> I'd choose the Hillborne which has a 23" low gear.  The Bombadil has an 18" 
> low, but it weighs 40 pounds.  The drivetrain on my Black Mountain is 
> pretty flexible.  I could have it geared down in the 22" range in about 20 
> minutes with parts on the shelves in my garage.  It's always good to be 
> prepared.  
>
> On Saturday, August 9, 2014 3:02:49 PM UTC-7, ted wrote:
>>
>> Nope. I thought you might want something smaller than a 35" gear there. 
>> As in a reason to want lower than 35" on a road bike. 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: One week without a front derailleur

[ted]

Nope. I thought you might want something smaller than a 35" gear there. As in a 
reason to want lower than 35" on a road bike. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: One week without a front derailleur

[ted]

Bill, have you been up say Welch Creek rd. off Calaveras?

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[RBW] Re: Compass 650b 38 vs. 650b 42 mm tires question.

[ted]

Anton, thanks for the insight.
My Cypres tires were the standard variety. I think they start to feel a bit 
loose between 65 and 60 psi in the rear. I'm just beginning my experiment with 
42 mm tires. My first take is the GR Greens get a bit loose between 50 and 45 
psi in the rear, and that 50 psi in the GRs feels similar to the Cypres at 65. 
What 42 mm tires have you used, and what pressures work well for you?

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[RBW] Re: The Rivendell Bike Weight Thread

[ted]

Since I'm not doing anything with a point this evening anyway 
Ridable bikes on hand minus anything not bolted or zip tied on:

~53cm Gios "road race" bike, ~19.5 lbs (circa '80 weight weeny-ish steel w/ 
mostly current parts for ref)
mostly campi 10sp ergo, cane creek weight weeny brakes, Ritchey wcs bars, 
syncros quill stem, ti rail selle italia turbo, suntour superbe pro post, 
speedplay x pedals, 1 ac cage, 1 arundel sport cage.

56cm AHH ~23.0 lbs
32h lx/synergy wheels w/ soma GR green tires, xcd rd, old nr fd, shim 9sp 
dt shifters, rh cranks, misc cartridge bb, frog pedals, nitto stem & dream 
bars, old dia-comp areo levers, 559 brakes, s83 post, ti rail san marco 
rolls w/ kludged brass rail bag loop substitute, 2 king cages, 1 nitto tire 
cage

52cm Sam Hillborne ~25.6 lbs
32h lx/synergy wheels w/ non force field rumpkin tires, stndrd RBW most 
everywhere, lugged nitto post, b17., sneaker pedals, albatross bars, 1 king 
cage

56cm SimpleOne ~28.2 bs
son front hub, vo fixed/free rear, vo pbp rims, jack brown green tires, 
superbe pro track crank, phil bb, lyotard mb pedals w/ clips n straps, 
nitto stem & rb019 bars, s83 post, selle italia turbo, longboards, nitto 
mini, nitto top, wald med., edelux, bm linetec, pletscher kick stand, 2 
king cages

52 cm Bombadil ~28.8 lbs
32h lx/synergy w/ Quasi-Moto tires, xt rd, cx70 fd, sugino xd2 wide low 
double, very old sugino loose ball bb, mks urban pedals w/ clips n straps, 
cr720 cantis, 9sp shim on paul thumbies, large bullmoose bar, lugged nitto 
post, b17, 3 king cages, pletscher kick stand.

~56/53 long bike ~46.2 lbs (bonus fun bike)
531 super-tourist, RBW fork crown, very RBW build, albatross in front, 
bosco stoker, b17 for both, sneaker pedals, nitto big back rack, nitto mini.

I/we are very pleased with all of em (well the Gios may be too small), but 
that took longer than I thought it would. This weight stuff is indeed 
insidious, and best eschewed. Riding round the block a few times on any one 
of them would have been a much better plan.

On Friday, August 8, 2014 2:41:07 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Don't hold your breath.  Jan doesn't ride a Rivendell (even though he 
> still owns one), and Jan knows that bike weight doesn't matter anywhere 
> near as much as people think.  Grant also knows that handwringing over bike 
> weight is a pointless exercise.  He doesn't know what his bike(s) weigh, 
> doesn't care, knows it doesn't matter, and is busy doing things that are 
> less pointless to him than weighing his bike(s).  
>
> Me though, I don't mind being pointless.  I weighed my "road bike".  My 
> budget Roadeo: 
>
> Frameset:  Black Mountain Cycles 59cm, cane creek threadless headset
>
> wheels:  Open pro 32 hole, ultegra rear, WTB front, vintage Dura Ace 
> skewers, 12-25 9sp cassette, 700x32 challenge Eroica tires
>
> drivetrain:  White Ind VBC cranks 44/30, White steel BB, Ultegra SPDs, 
> Dura Ace F+R ders, DT shifters, SRAM chain
>
> components:  flite saddle, ritchey alloy seatpost, noodle bars, civia 
> bryant stem, Dia compe 610 centerpull brakes, paul funky monkey hangers, 
> tektro levers, newbaums tape
>
> extras:  alloy crane bell, gran compe ciclo ENE front rack, two king cages 
>
> 23.5lbs
>
> On Friday, August 8, 2014 1:40:51 PM UTC-7, lungimsam wrote:
>>
>>  
>> ...still waiting for Jan Heine and Grant Petersen & company to chime in 
>> on this...c'mon now y'all...join in on the fun...
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Compass 650b 38 vs. 650b 42 mm tires question.

[ted]

I recently changed tires from ~32mm GB Cerfs (very nice tires) to ~41mm 
Soma GR Greens (also very nice tires). On reasonable pavement I have not 
been immediately bowled over by the differences. Therefore I don't think I 
would find the difference between 38 and 42 significant. However it seems 
the common wisdom round here is that 42 is much better than 38, so I guess 
most who have tried em both feel otherwise.

One reason to run wider tires is to allow lower pressure, for improved 
comfort, without getting pinch flats. But I find I can run 32mm tires soft 
enough to feel a bit squirmy or wandery without getting pinch flats. So I 
am not convinced this purported advantage really works for me.
Another purported advantage of a wider tire is the larger contact patch. At 
a given pressure, a wider tire feels harder than a narrower one. When you 
reduce the pressure in the wider tire to account for that, you get a larger 
contact patch. 


On Friday, August 8, 2014 12:34:17 PM UTC-7, lungimsam wrote:
>
> In what ways would the 42 be superior to the 38?
>>
> That is what I really need to know. Thanks. 
>

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