Re: [RBW] Re: Best mitten design for very cold weather

[Garth]

Patrick, The Lowe Alpine cap from Mountain Equipment is totally windproof 
and waterproof, just to let you know in case. I have some OR Wind Pro 
fleece Peruvian style caps with a chin cord I wear in milder conditions, 
but when below 40 I really need some wind stopping as I tend to take a 
chill from a cold head. Your hearing is slightly diminished with the Lowe 
Alpine cap when battened down, but you can still hear and feel cars.  I 
made my own chin cord out of bulk elastic shockcord and a spring locker, 
like you find on jackets at the waist. I have it long enough that I can 
flip up the ears with the cord over my crown. The back of the hats also 
have an elastic velcro strip to fine tune. My head measures about 58cm and 
I have XL's as I prefer a looser fit to fit over a balaclava if needed. The 
velcro in the back helps to take up the excess. That's just me though, I 
tend to buy all winter headwear a little big.

The "regular" Buffs are rather wonky aren't they. They always feel cold to 
me. I happened to come upon a version of them called Dryflx, the fabric is 
totally different, it always feels "dry" and it's reflective, hence the 
name. This Buff is warm against the skin, unlike the regular Buff. It's 
also taller, has some "body" to the fabric and doesn't fall down so easy, 
despite being about the same thickness, and never feels clammy when 
sweating. I bet you'd like these, I have 4 as I love neck gaiters !  I have 
a bunch of Turtle Fur also, the "original" four layer stuff that's super 
warm and blocks some wind by virtue of the layers. Not really for riding 
though, I have windstopper gaiters for that !

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MVZ5BNC?th=1=1
On Saturday, November 25, 2023 at 5:50:31 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> +1 for plastic bags, tho' I use them for wind protection in mesh shoes 
> when it's not quite cold enough for my winter shoes. Over wool socks, 1 or 
> even 2 pairs as needed.
>
> Head: Back when I had a pony tail (I have thick hair) I wondered why 
> people got het up about hats. Now that it's cropped to 1/2" or less I 
> understand. I bought some nice OR fleece skull caps with ear flaps and draw 
> cord that I wear under a winter cycling cap -- Walz or PI; colder and I'll 
> add a neck gaiter* or scarf or balaclava, and for real cold I have a Fargo 
> the Movie trooper's hat with plush lining and ear flaps to wear over ditto.
>
> Jacket: I've got choices that all work down to the upper teens: a light 
> lined shell to which I had pit zips added that I can wear over various 
> under layers, the warmest by far being a heavy wool Finnish sweater with 
> high full zip neck; or -- donated by a friendly iBob, a wonderful '80s 
> Italian wool + nylon panel cycling jacket that is surprisingly warm for its 
> weight and which I can wear over various wool layers including an Ibex wool 
> vest.
>
> That mountain equipment had is better than my Fargo troopers' hat tho' 
> this is much the same in design and dimensions. I'm tempted to buy one but 
> usually I get by with the OR skullcap or a blalaclava plus a scarf and the 
> Walz or PI winter caps and the trooper is worn only occasionally
>
> Gloves: a range from thin silk liners (but cheap; Lands' End junk; they 
> pill) to wonderful, very durable and warm to just above freezing DeFeet 
> wool knit gloves to ex-Bundesweher lined leather gloves bought 2 sizes too 
> large in which I can wear both of the foregoing, then the new mittens into 
> which I can get the leather gloves. I've also got those PI lobsters which 
> also fit into the new leather mittens.**
>
> *I have a Buff and a much cheaper one from Varusteleka. Guess which is by 
> far the better: better quality, better weight, better fit? The Buff is 
> pilling lightweight junk tho' I like the blazing orange color.
>
> FS: thinnish but very decent wool mittens that came as liners with the 
> leather mittens, unworn, Large; Finnish army mil surpl wool shooter mittens 
> -- sep trigger fingers -- unworn, Large; and OR nylon mitten/gauntlets, I 
> expect XL, bought used but VG. Take these, leave the lobsters, for $25 
> shipped CONUS. All this + PI lobsters, before I wear them again: $70 
> shipped CONUS. Hell, I'll through in that Buff neck gaiter too, tho' you'll 
> have to remind me and you should probably wash it.
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 25, 2023 at 1:00 PM Garth  wrote:
>
>> I was wondering how I was going to fare wearing the Kinco Axeman mittens 
>> this morning @26 degrees, sunny and a light crisp dry fresh breeze. I wore 
>> the longer cuff Harbor Freight 7 mil nitrile gloves underneath, reversed so 
>> the slick inside glides with the fleece interior of the mitt.  W U N D A B 
>> A H  ! (pronounced like voon-da-bah) aka Wonderful ! 
>>
>> I wasn't so sure about the feet either as usually below 32 has been cold 
>> toes with my Altra Trail runners, even with Showers Pass Mountain socks 
>> that are windproof and have some wool inside, supposedly. They weren't very 
>> 

Re: [RBW] Re: Best mitten design for very cold weather

[Patrick Moore]

+1 for plastic bags, tho' I use them for wind protection in mesh shoes when
it's not quite cold enough for my winter shoes. Over wool socks, 1 or even
2 pairs as needed.

Head: Back when I had a pony tail (I have thick hair) I wondered why people
got het up about hats. Now that it's cropped to 1/2" or less I understand.
I bought some nice OR fleece skull caps with ear flaps and draw cord that I
wear under a winter cycling cap -- Walz or PI; colder and I'll add a neck
gaiter* or scarf or balaclava, and for real cold I have a Fargo the Movie
trooper's hat with plush lining and ear flaps to wear over ditto.

Jacket: I've got choices that all work down to the upper teens: a light
lined shell to which I had pit zips added that I can wear over various
under layers, the warmest by far being a heavy wool Finnish sweater with
high full zip neck; or -- donated by a friendly iBob, a wonderful '80s
Italian wool + nylon panel cycling jacket that is surprisingly warm for its
weight and which I can wear over various wool layers including an Ibex wool
vest.

That mountain equipment had is better than my Fargo troopers' hat tho' this
is much the same in design and dimensions. I'm tempted to buy one but
usually I get by with the OR skullcap or a blalaclava plus a scarf and the
Walz or PI winter caps and the trooper is worn only occasionally

Gloves: a range from thin silk liners (but cheap; Lands' End junk; they
pill) to wonderful, very durable and warm to just above freezing DeFeet
wool knit gloves to ex-Bundesweher lined leather gloves bought 2 sizes too
large in which I can wear both of the foregoing, then the new mittens into
which I can get the leather gloves. I've also got those PI lobsters which
also fit into the new leather mittens.**

*I have a Buff and a much cheaper one from Varusteleka. Guess which is by
far the better: better quality, better weight, better fit? The Buff is
pilling lightweight junk tho' I like the blazing orange color.

FS: thinnish but very decent wool mittens that came as liners with the
leather mittens, unworn, Large; Finnish army mil surpl wool shooter mittens
-- sep trigger fingers -- unworn, Large; and OR nylon mitten/gauntlets, I
expect XL, bought used but VG. Take these, leave the lobsters, for $25
shipped CONUS. All this + PI lobsters, before I wear them again: $70
shipped CONUS. Hell, I'll through in that Buff neck gaiter too, tho' you'll
have to remind me and you should probably wash it.


On Sat, Nov 25, 2023 at 1:00 PM Garth  wrote:

> I was wondering how I was going to fare wearing the Kinco Axeman mittens
> this morning @26 degrees, sunny and a light crisp dry fresh breeze. I wore
> the longer cuff Harbor Freight 7 mil nitrile gloves underneath, reversed so
> the slick inside glides with the fleece interior of the mitt.  W U N D A B
> A H  ! (pronounced like voon-da-bah) aka Wonderful !
>
> I wasn't so sure about the feet either as usually below 32 has been cold
> toes with my Altra Trail runners, even with Showers Pass Mountain socks
> that are windproof and have some wool inside, supposedly. They weren't very
> warm by themselves, surprisingly, until this year I started wearing plastic
> grocery bags around my feet before I put the socks on. Now they're warm !
> Vapor barriers for the win !  For more warmth I can place some plastic
> packaging pouches converted to toe booties inside my shoes.
>
> Plus I bought me some fancy Sportful Fiandre road specific jackets this
> fall, one of which aptly named "Warm" with a Gore Infinium wind stopping
> softshell and a laminated fleece lining. (Fiandre is Italian for Flanders,
> a region of Belgium famous for fabulous pro road races) The "Warm" jacket
> has all sorts of ventilation built into it, from a narrow strip of fleece
> running the length of the under arms, to the mesh caped upper back vent, to
> two small zippered side torso vents. It's a brilliant design. It's not
> meant for below freezing so I wore two light baselayer shirts, which I
> found is warmer than one thicker one, plus another Fiandre jacket on top of
> the baselayers and underneath the Warm. The Fiandre NoRain Light short
> sleeve jacket. Gawd is it awesome, the back is breathable rain resistant
> fabric and the rest is a thin wind stopping laminate that's noiseless and
> supple. Having that extra windproof fabric over the shoulders to the elbows
> makes a huge difference compared to vests. Very light and packable. All
> these Fiandre jackets are like hybrid jersey/jackets, they're meant to be
> very form fitting and over baselayers, like a jersey.
>
> All that with some nice warm Santini Aldo bib tights which I'm pretty sure
> is the heaviest/most dense fleece made road cycling wear. No wind blocking
> panels, minimal seams, just the dense and very supple "Roubaix" style
> fleece, smooth outside and fleecy inside.
>
> Riding in long low road position(notably less air resistance !) and having
> form fitting no flap clothing this year I've kept riding this fall 

Re: [RBW] Re: Best mitten design for very cold weather

[Brian Turner]

I just received the Kinco waterproof Work + Ski mitt for my birthday and am anxious to get to try them out on some cold rides this Winter. They’re leather mittens, but have a 5-finger liner built into them to keep your fingers toasty.BrianLex KyOn Nov 25, 2023, at 3:00 PM, Garth  wrote:I was wondering how I was going to fare wearing the Kinco Axeman mittens this morning @26 degrees, sunny and a light crisp dry fresh breeze. I wore the longer cuff Harbor Freight 7 mil nitrile gloves underneath, reversed so the slick inside glides with the fleece interior of the mitt.  W U N D A B A H  ! (pronounced like voon-da-bah) aka Wonderful ! I wasn't so sure about the feet either as usually below 32 has been cold toes with my Altra Trail runners, even with Showers Pass Mountain socks that are windproof and have some wool inside, supposedly. They weren't very warm by themselves, surprisingly, until this year I started wearing plastic grocery bags around my feet before I put the socks on. Now they're warm ! Vapor barriers for the win !  For more warmth I can place some plastic packaging pouches converted to toe booties inside my shoes. Plus I bought me some fancy Sportful Fiandre road specific jackets this fall, one of which aptly named "Warm" with a Gore Infinium wind stopping softshell and a laminated fleece lining. (Fiandre is Italian for Flanders, a region of Belgium famous for fabulous pro road races) The "Warm" jacket has all sorts of ventilation built into it, from a narrow strip of fleece running the length of the under arms, to the mesh caped upper back vent, to two small zippered side torso vents. It's a brilliant design. It's not meant for below freezing so I wore two light baselayer shirts, which I found is warmer than one thicker one, plus another Fiandre jacket on top of the baselayers and underneath the Warm. The Fiandre NoRain Light short sleeve jacket. Gawd is it awesome, the back is breathable rain resistant fabric and the rest is a thin wind stopping laminate that's noiseless and supple. Having that extra windproof fabric over the shoulders to the elbows makes a huge difference compared to vests. Very light and packable. All these Fiandre jackets are like hybrid jersey/jackets, they're meant to be very form fitting and over baselayers, like a jersey. All that with some nice warm Santini Aldo bib tights which I'm pretty sure is the heaviest/most dense fleece made road cycling wear. No wind blocking panels, minimal seams, just the dense and very supple "Roubaix" style fleece, smooth outside and fleecy inside. Riding in long low road position(notably less air resistance !) and having form fitting no flap clothing this year I've kept riding this fall whereas usually I would have given in to the cold for walking/hiking instead. Having a warm head of course is essential and I use combos of balaclavas, neck gaiters and Lowe Alpine Mountain Caps, which are the bees knees for anything in the cold. Goretex shell and fleece lining, with loops @ the chin for DIY securing under the chin. Mine are some 12 years old, but I see they still make them, albeit with their own proprietary waterproofing rather than a Gore product. https://mountainequipment.com/products/classic-mountain-cap-alpine-hat The brim is wired so bendable any which way, plus it snaps up under the little horizontal piece of fabric on the front. The main thing I get out the hat is that it is windproof, just like the socks. If my head is cold I have no chance to stay warm ! On Saturday, November 25, 2023 at 12:42:53 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:Thanks. Those are warmer than PI Lobsters? I've been trying to sell my lobsters but no response, and I may just keep them; they'll fit inside the new leather/fleece-lined mittens for very cold mornings without (apparently; haven't yet ridden with this combo) binding or squashing.On Sat, Nov 25, 2023 at 10:35 AM Tim Donner  wrote:I ride in Western Mass, this mornings ride was in the low 20s and these have been really toasty for me in temps down into the teens! GORE-TEX INFINIUM THERMO SPLIT GLOVES. I wear them on my drop bar and swept back bar bikes, with bar end and thumbie shifters respectively. I appreciate that they have XXXL, my palms are pretty big and this gives a snug yet roomy fit and gives me enough dexterity and they aren't super long on my fingers. Full price they are spendy but I have seen them on sale for closer to $50 in the past. On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 12:44:57 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:I bought a pair of size Large Guide Gear leather mittens with light fleece lining and inner wool mitten, sub $40. The wool mitten is thin, not at all like the heavy, almost felted wool mittens with my first pair of OR nylon/wool combo, but the OR combination was really too warm for my needs. The leather is good quality and supple, the stitching looks good, and they are labeled "waterproof." I daresay that the lining will wear but I wanted these for the leather outer mitts which 

Re: [RBW] Re: Best mitten design for very cold weather

[Garth]

I was wondering how I was going to fare wearing the Kinco Axeman mittens 
this morning @26 degrees, sunny and a light crisp dry fresh breeze. I wore 
the longer cuff Harbor Freight 7 mil nitrile gloves underneath, reversed so 
the slick inside glides with the fleece interior of the mitt.  W U N D A B 
A H  ! (pronounced like voon-da-bah) aka Wonderful ! 

I wasn't so sure about the feet either as usually below 32 has been cold 
toes with my Altra Trail runners, even with Showers Pass Mountain socks 
that are windproof and have some wool inside, supposedly. They weren't very 
warm by themselves, surprisingly, until this year I started wearing plastic 
grocery bags around my feet before I put the socks on. Now they're warm ! 
Vapor barriers for the win !  For more warmth I can place some plastic 
packaging pouches converted to toe booties inside my shoes. 

Plus I bought me some fancy Sportful Fiandre road specific jackets this 
fall, one of which aptly named "Warm" with a Gore Infinium wind stopping 
softshell and a laminated fleece lining. (Fiandre is Italian for Flanders, 
a region of Belgium famous for fabulous pro road races) The "Warm" jacket 
has all sorts of ventilation built into it, from a narrow strip of fleece 
running the length of the under arms, to the mesh caped upper back vent, to 
two small zippered side torso vents. It's a brilliant design. It's not 
meant for below freezing so I wore two light baselayer shirts, which I 
found is warmer than one thicker one, plus another Fiandre jacket on top of 
the baselayers and underneath the Warm. The Fiandre NoRain Light short 
sleeve jacket. Gawd is it awesome, the back is breathable rain resistant 
fabric and the rest is a thin wind stopping laminate that's noiseless and 
supple. Having that extra windproof fabric over the shoulders to the elbows 
makes a huge difference compared to vests. Very light and packable. All 
these Fiandre jackets are like hybrid jersey/jackets, they're meant to be 
very form fitting and over baselayers, like a jersey. 

All that with some nice warm Santini Aldo bib tights which I'm pretty sure 
is the heaviest/most dense fleece made road cycling wear. No wind blocking 
panels, minimal seams, just the dense and very supple "Roubaix" style 
fleece, smooth outside and fleecy inside. 

Riding in long low road position(notably less air resistance !) and having 
form fitting no flap clothing this year I've kept riding this fall whereas 
usually I would have given in to the cold for walking/hiking instead. 

Having a warm head of course is essential and I use combos of balaclavas, 
neck gaiters and Lowe Alpine Mountain Caps, which are the bees knees for 
anything in the cold. Goretex shell and fleece lining, with loops @ the 
chin for DIY securing under the chin. Mine are some 12 years old, but I see 
they still make them, albeit with their own proprietary waterproofing 
rather than a Gore product. 
https://mountainequipment.com/products/classic-mountain-cap-alpine-hat The 
brim is wired so bendable any which way, plus it snaps up under the little 
horizontal piece of fabric on the front. The main thing I get out the hat 
is that it is windproof, just like the socks. If my head is cold I have no 
chance to stay warm ! 

On Saturday, November 25, 2023 at 12:42:53 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Thanks. Those are warmer than PI Lobsters? 
>
> I've been trying to sell my lobsters but no response, and I may just keep 
> them; they'll fit inside the new leather/fleece-lined mittens for very cold 
> mornings without (apparently; haven't yet ridden with this combo) binding 
> or squashing.
>
> On Sat, Nov 25, 2023 at 10:35 AM Tim Donner  wrote:
>
>> I ride in Western Mass, this mornings ride was in the low 20s and these 
>> have been really toasty for me in temps down into the teens! GORE-TEX 
>> INFINIUM THERMO SPLIT GLOVES 
>> .
>>  
>> I wear them on my drop bar and swept back bar bikes, with bar end and 
>> thumbie shifters respectively. I appreciate that they have XXXL, my palms 
>> are pretty big and this gives a snug yet roomy fit and gives me enough 
>> dexterity and they aren't super long on my fingers. 
>> Full price they are spendy but I have seen them on sale for closer to $50 
>> in the past. 
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 12:44:57 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> I bought a pair of size Large Guide Gear leather mittens with light 
>>> fleece lining and inner wool mitten, sub $40. The wool mitten is thin, not 
>>> at all like the heavy, almost felted wool mittens with my first pair of OR 
>>> nylon/wool combo, but the OR combination was really too warm for my needs. 
>>> The leather is good quality and supple, the stitching looks good, and they 
>>> are labeled "waterproof." I daresay that the lining will wear but I wanted 
>>> these for the leather outer mitts which are large enough to wear over not 
>>> only the accompanying 

Re: [RBW] Re: Best mitten design for very cold weather

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks. Those are warmer than PI Lobsters?

I've been trying to sell my lobsters but no response, and I may just keep
them; they'll fit inside the new leather/fleece-lined mittens for very cold
mornings without (apparently; haven't yet ridden with this combo) binding
or squashing.

On Sat, Nov 25, 2023 at 10:35 AM Tim Donner  wrote:

> I ride in Western Mass, this mornings ride was in the low 20s and these
> have been really toasty for me in temps down into the teens! GORE-TEX
> INFINIUM THERMO SPLIT GLOVES
> .
> I wear them on my drop bar and swept back bar bikes, with bar end and
> thumbie shifters respectively. I appreciate that they have XXXL, my palms
> are pretty big and this gives a snug yet roomy fit and gives me enough
> dexterity and they aren't super long on my fingers.
> Full price they are spendy but I have seen them on sale for closer to $50
> in the past.
>
> On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 12:44:57 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> I bought a pair of size Large Guide Gear leather mittens with light
>> fleece lining and inner wool mitten, sub $40. The wool mitten is thin, not
>> at all like the heavy, almost felted wool mittens with my first pair of OR
>> nylon/wool combo, but the OR combination was really too warm for my needs.
>> The leather is good quality and supple, the stitching looks good, and they
>> are labeled "waterproof." I daresay that the lining will wear but I wanted
>> these for the leather outer mitts which are large enough to wear over not
>> only the accompanying wool mittens but my lighter-weight lined leather
>> gloves (ex Bundeswehr!) and they will even fit over those little-used Pearl
>> Izumi size L lobster mitts I'm trying to sell without crowding the ends of
>> fingers or thumb.
>>
>> I wish they covered more of my wrists but anything I wear under them will
>> be longer on the wrist.
>>
>> Come to think of it, those very thick and dense OR wool under-mittens
>> would probably have served as well as these lined leather sheaths, but I
>> expect I'll prefer the leather for a better grip on the bar.
>>
>> Those PI lobsters + OR nylon over mittens (no wool undermittens) +
>> Finnish army surplus gun mittens still FS: all now $70 shipped CONUS.
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2023 at 2:15 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>>> The fall style thread raises a question about keeping your hands warm in
>>> very cold temperatures (for me, very cold means in the teens F). My fingers
>>> are very sensitive to the cold. I've bought 2 or 3 pairs of PI Lobster
>>> gloves but I've been disappointed in the fit and the warmth.
>>>
>>> I've used Outdoor Research heavy nylon mitten sheaths with thick boiled
>>> wool mittens underneath, and those were very warm indeed, but very awkward
>>> to ride in, even on a fixed gear where you have to handle only the brake
>>> levers.
>>>
>>> Varusteleka currently has a number of mil surplus mittens with separate
>>> thumb, separate thumb and trigger finger, and separate thumb and first 2
>>> fingers. The whole point of mittens is to bundle the fingers together in
>>> one compartment for mutual warmth, so each added finger compartment
>>> sacrifices warmth.
>>>
>>> Does anyone have thoughts on a glove or a mitten or a system that gives
>>> the best mix of warmth and dexterity? And perhaps some particular gloves or
>>> mittens that fit the bill?
>>>
>>> Right now, I've got hugely oversized 5-finger gloves under which I can
>>> wear wool knit gloves, under which in turn I can wear silk liners, but this
>>> sort of layer system is cumbersome to put on and take off.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>> --
>>>
>>> -
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>> -
>>>
>>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
>>> services.
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>>
>>> *When thou didst not, savage,*
>>>
>>> *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*
>>>
>>> *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes*
>>>
>>> *With words that made them known.*
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> -
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> -
>>
>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
>> services.
>>
>>
>> -
>>
>> *When thou didst not, savage,*
>>
>> *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*
>>
>> *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy 

Re: [RBW] Re: Best mitten design for very cold weather

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks. No, I use drops exclusively and in any event like to move my hands
around; also, I've got 4 bikes.

On Sat, Nov 25, 2023 at 10:35 AM Frakern  wrote:

> I have trouble with cold hands too. If you have upright handlebars, I'd
> suggest trying the handlebar covers that Blue Lug sells. Takes a bit of
> time to get used to look, but they keep my hands super warm to the point
> that I don't usually need gloves.
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 2:44:57 PM UTC+9 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> I bought a pair of size Large Guide Gear leather mittens with light
>> fleece lining and inner wool mitten, sub $40. The wool mitten is thin, not
>> at all like the heavy, almost felted wool mittens with my first pair of OR
>> nylon/wool combo, but the OR combination was really too warm for my needs.
>> The leather is good quality and supple, the stitching looks good, and they
>> are labeled "waterproof." I daresay that the lining will wear but I wanted
>> these for the leather outer mitts which are large enough to wear over not
>> only the accompanying wool mittens but my lighter-weight lined leather
>> gloves (ex Bundeswehr!) and they will even fit over those little-used Pearl
>> Izumi size L lobster mitts I'm trying to sell without crowding the ends of
>> fingers or thumb.
>>
>> I wish they covered more of my wrists but anything I wear under them will
>> be longer on the wrist.
>>
>> Come to think of it, those very thick and dense OR wool under-mittens
>> would probably have served as well as these lined leather sheaths, but I
>> expect I'll prefer the leather for a better grip on the bar.
>>
>> Those PI lobsters + OR nylon over mittens (no wool undermittens) +
>> Finnish army surplus gun mittens still FS: all now $70 shipped CONUS.
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2023 at 2:15 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>>> The fall style thread raises a question about keeping your hands warm in
>>> very cold temperatures (for me, very cold means in the teens F). My fingers
>>> are very sensitive to the cold. I've bought 2 or 3 pairs of PI Lobster
>>> gloves but I've been disappointed in the fit and the warmth.
>>>
>>> I've used Outdoor Research heavy nylon mitten sheaths with thick boiled
>>> wool mittens underneath, and those were very warm indeed, but very awkward
>>> to ride in, even on a fixed gear where you have to handle only the brake
>>> levers.
>>>
>>> Varusteleka currently has a number of mil surplus mittens with separate
>>> thumb, separate thumb and trigger finger, and separate thumb and first 2
>>> fingers. The whole point of mittens is to bundle the fingers together in
>>> one compartment for mutual warmth, so each added finger compartment
>>> sacrifices warmth.
>>>
>>> Does anyone have thoughts on a glove or a mitten or a system that gives
>>> the best mix of warmth and dexterity? And perhaps some particular gloves or
>>> mittens that fit the bill?
>>>
>>> Right now, I've got hugely oversized 5-finger gloves under which I can
>>> wear wool knit gloves, under which in turn I can wear silk liners, but this
>>> sort of layer system is cumbersome to put on and take off.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>> --
>>>
>>> -
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>> -
>>>
>>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
>>> services.
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>>
>>> *When thou didst not, savage,*
>>>
>>> *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*
>>>
>>> *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes*
>>>
>>> *With words that made them known.*
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> -
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> -
>>
>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
>> services.
>>
>>
>> -
>>
>> *When thou didst not, savage,*
>>
>> *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*
>>
>> *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes*
>>
>> *With words that made them known.*
>>
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[RBW] Re: Best mitten design for very cold weather

[Tim Donner]

I ride in Western Mass, this mornings ride was in the low 20s and these 
have been really toasty for me in temps down into the teens! GORE-TEX 
INFINIUM THERMO SPLIT GLOVES 
.
 
I wear them on my drop bar and swept back bar bikes, with bar end and 
thumbie shifters respectively. I appreciate that they have XXXL, my palms 
are pretty big and this gives a snug yet roomy fit and gives me enough 
dexterity and they aren't super long on my fingers. 
Full price they are spendy but I have seen them on sale for closer to $50 
in the past. 

On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 12:44:57 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> I bought a pair of size Large Guide Gear leather mittens with light fleece 
> lining and inner wool mitten, sub $40. The wool mitten is thin, not at all 
> like the heavy, almost felted wool mittens with my first pair of OR 
> nylon/wool combo, but the OR combination was really too warm for my needs. 
> The leather is good quality and supple, the stitching looks good, and they 
> are labeled "waterproof." I daresay that the lining will wear but I wanted 
> these for the leather outer mitts which are large enough to wear over not 
> only the accompanying wool mittens but my lighter-weight lined leather 
> gloves (ex Bundeswehr!) and they will even fit over those little-used Pearl 
> Izumi size L lobster mitts I'm trying to sell without crowding the ends of 
> fingers or thumb.
>
> I wish they covered more of my wrists but anything I wear under them will 
> be longer on the wrist. 
>
> Come to think of it, those very thick and dense OR wool under-mittens 
> would probably have served as well as these lined leather sheaths, but I 
> expect I'll prefer the leather for a better grip on the bar.
>
> Those PI lobsters + OR nylon over mittens (no wool undermittens) + Finnish 
> army surplus gun mittens still FS: all now $70 shipped CONUS.
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2023 at 2:15 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> The fall style thread raises a question about keeping your hands warm in 
>> very cold temperatures (for me, very cold means in the teens F). My fingers 
>> are very sensitive to the cold. I've bought 2 or 3 pairs of PI Lobster 
>> gloves but I've been disappointed in the fit and the warmth. 
>>
>> I've used Outdoor Research heavy nylon mitten sheaths with thick boiled 
>> wool mittens underneath, and those were very warm indeed, but very awkward 
>> to ride in, even on a fixed gear where you have to handle only the brake 
>> levers.
>>
>> Varusteleka currently has a number of mil surplus mittens with separate 
>> thumb, separate thumb and trigger finger, and separate thumb and first 2 
>> fingers. The whole point of mittens is to bundle the fingers together in 
>> one compartment for mutual warmth, so each added finger compartment 
>> sacrifices warmth.
>>
>> Does anyone have thoughts on a glove or a mitten or a system that gives 
>> the best mix of warmth and dexterity? And perhaps some particular gloves or 
>> mittens that fit the bill?
>>
>> Right now, I've got hugely oversized 5-finger gloves under which I can 
>> wear wool knit gloves, under which in turn I can wear silk liners, but this 
>> sort of layer system is cumbersome to put on and take off.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
> -- 
>>
>> -
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> -
>>
>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
>> services.
>>
>>
>> -
>>
>> *When thou didst not, savage,*
>>
>> *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*
>>
>> *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes*
>>
>> *With words that made them known.*
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> -
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> -
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
> services.
>
>
> -
>
> *When thou didst not, savage,*
>
> *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*
>
> *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes*
>
> *With words that made them known.*
>

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[RBW] Re: Best mitten design for very cold weather

[Frakern]

I have trouble with cold hands too. If you have upright handlebars, I'd 
suggest trying the handlebar covers that Blue Lug sells. Takes a bit of 
time to get used to look, but they keep my hands super warm to the point 
that I don't usually need gloves. 



On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 2:44:57 PM UTC+9 Patrick Moore wrote:

> I bought a pair of size Large Guide Gear leather mittens with light fleece 
> lining and inner wool mitten, sub $40. The wool mitten is thin, not at all 
> like the heavy, almost felted wool mittens with my first pair of OR 
> nylon/wool combo, but the OR combination was really too warm for my needs. 
> The leather is good quality and supple, the stitching looks good, and they 
> are labeled "waterproof." I daresay that the lining will wear but I wanted 
> these for the leather outer mitts which are large enough to wear over not 
> only the accompanying wool mittens but my lighter-weight lined leather 
> gloves (ex Bundeswehr!) and they will even fit over those little-used Pearl 
> Izumi size L lobster mitts I'm trying to sell without crowding the ends of 
> fingers or thumb.
>
> I wish they covered more of my wrists but anything I wear under them will 
> be longer on the wrist. 
>
> Come to think of it, those very thick and dense OR wool under-mittens 
> would probably have served as well as these lined leather sheaths, but I 
> expect I'll prefer the leather for a better grip on the bar.
>
> Those PI lobsters + OR nylon over mittens (no wool undermittens) + Finnish 
> army surplus gun mittens still FS: all now $70 shipped CONUS.
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2023 at 2:15 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> The fall style thread raises a question about keeping your hands warm in 
>> very cold temperatures (for me, very cold means in the teens F). My fingers 
>> are very sensitive to the cold. I've bought 2 or 3 pairs of PI Lobster 
>> gloves but I've been disappointed in the fit and the warmth. 
>>
>> I've used Outdoor Research heavy nylon mitten sheaths with thick boiled 
>> wool mittens underneath, and those were very warm indeed, but very awkward 
>> to ride in, even on a fixed gear where you have to handle only the brake 
>> levers.
>>
>> Varusteleka currently has a number of mil surplus mittens with separate 
>> thumb, separate thumb and trigger finger, and separate thumb and first 2 
>> fingers. The whole point of mittens is to bundle the fingers together in 
>> one compartment for mutual warmth, so each added finger compartment 
>> sacrifices warmth.
>>
>> Does anyone have thoughts on a glove or a mitten or a system that gives 
>> the best mix of warmth and dexterity? And perhaps some particular gloves or 
>> mittens that fit the bill?
>>
>> Right now, I've got hugely oversized 5-finger gloves under which I can 
>> wear wool knit gloves, under which in turn I can wear silk liners, but this 
>> sort of layer system is cumbersome to put on and take off.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
> -- 
>>
>> -
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> -
>>
>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
>> services.
>>
>>
>> -
>>
>> *When thou didst not, savage,*
>>
>> *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*
>>
>> *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes*
>>
>> *With words that made them known.*
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> -
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> -
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
> services.
>
>
> -
>
> *When thou didst not, savage,*
>
> *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*
>
> *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes*
>
> *With words that made them known.*
>

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[RBW] Re: Best mitten design for very cold weather

[Patrick Moore]

I bought a pair of size Large Guide Gear leather mittens with light fleece
lining and inner wool mitten, sub $40. The wool mitten is thin, not at all
like the heavy, almost felted wool mittens with my first pair of OR
nylon/wool combo, but the OR combination was really too warm for my needs.
The leather is good quality and supple, the stitching looks good, and they
are labeled "waterproof." I daresay that the lining will wear but I wanted
these for the leather outer mitts which are large enough to wear over not
only the accompanying wool mittens but my lighter-weight lined leather
gloves (ex Bundeswehr!) and they will even fit over those little-used Pearl
Izumi size L lobster mitts I'm trying to sell without crowding the ends of
fingers or thumb.

I wish they covered more of my wrists but anything I wear under them will
be longer on the wrist.

Come to think of it, those very thick and dense OR wool under-mittens would
probably have served as well as these lined leather sheaths, but I expect
I'll prefer the leather for a better grip on the bar.

Those PI lobsters + OR nylon over mittens (no wool undermittens) + Finnish
army surplus gun mittens still FS: all now $70 shipped CONUS.

On Thu, Sep 28, 2023 at 2:15 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> The fall style thread raises a question about keeping your hands warm in
> very cold temperatures (for me, very cold means in the teens F). My fingers
> are very sensitive to the cold. I've bought 2 or 3 pairs of PI Lobster
> gloves but I've been disappointed in the fit and the warmth.
>
> I've used Outdoor Research heavy nylon mitten sheaths with thick boiled
> wool mittens underneath, and those were very warm indeed, but very awkward
> to ride in, even on a fixed gear where you have to handle only the brake
> levers.
>
> Varusteleka currently has a number of mil surplus mittens with separate
> thumb, separate thumb and trigger finger, and separate thumb and first 2
> fingers. The whole point of mittens is to bundle the fingers together in
> one compartment for mutual warmth, so each added finger compartment
> sacrifices warmth.
>
> Does anyone have thoughts on a glove or a mitten or a system that gives
> the best mix of warmth and dexterity? And perhaps some particular gloves or
> mittens that fit the bill?
>
> Right now, I've got hugely oversized 5-finger gloves under which I can
> wear wool knit gloves, under which in turn I can wear silk liners, but this
> sort of layer system is cumbersome to put on and take off.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
>
> -
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> -
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
> services.
>
>
> -
>
> *When thou didst not, savage,*
>
> *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*
>
> *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes*
>
> *With words that made them known.*
>


-- 
-
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
-

Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
services.

-

*When thou didst not, savage,*

*Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*

*A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes*

*With words that made them known.*

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Re: [RBW] Re: Best mitten design for very cold weather

[Mackenzy Albright]

https://www.halfordsmailorder.com/deer-mitts-gold-ladies-large-glmitt196golll

I prefer simple deer skin mittens with fleece liners for anything below 
freezing to about -19*c / -19*f

I've had the same pair for 10 years. I have terrible circulation in my 
fingers and numb quickly. 

IMO Lobster claws are a joke. Snow board mittens are OK but over priced. 
Gloves are worst than lobster claws for cold (I wear thin gloves above 32 
though). Pogies are nice but limit hand positions a bit more than I care 
for. 
On Thursday, October 5, 2023 at 11:15:06 AM UTC-7 wboe...@gmail.com wrote:

> All leather for this job is a tough choice in my use case.  I need mitts 
> to be occasionally waterproof but more often breathable.  And in fact, I'll 
> err on the side of breathable because a very waterproof mitt will leave me 
> with wet hands inside anyway.  To get leather to the waterproof stage, you 
> need a sealant (I like SnoSeal), rendering it basically non-breathable.  My 
> personal compromise is a mountaineering mitten with removable liner and a 
> leather palm.  I get the grippiness and longevity of leather (synthetic 
> substitutes are far inferior), which I can waterproof + the breathability 
> of modern membranes (PFCs are a downside).  I dispose of the factory liner 
> beacuse they're usually garbage and use a dense, lightweight wool mitten, 
> knit by my loving mother.
>
> Will
>
>
>
> On Thursday, October 5, 2023 at 2:04:35 PM UTC-4 Coal Bee Rye Anne wrote:
>
>> I also like my Kinco mitts but one note of clarification is that their 
>> built in liner is of the 'fingered/gloved' type so each digit is lined 
>> separately within the mitten.  They are otherwise much warmer than the now 
>> heavily worn out cashmere lined leather gloves I was previously using for 
>> most of my winter riding.  Those older gloves were better for gripping a 
>> variety of bars and using controls but nowhere near as effective for 
>> keeping my fingers warm or dry.  My Kinco mitts also came with a pack of 
>> Nikwax (I think) waterproofing paste to work into the leather.  
>>
>> On Thursday, October 5, 2023 at 1:45:59 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks, a second +1 for Kinco products. They're on my short list.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 4, 2023 at 2:02 PM David Pulsipher  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 The best mittens, hands down - for warmth and cost are the Kinco Ski 
 Mitt . They can be broken in so they aren't 
 super dextrous, but as far as warmth goes, I've used them well into the 
 negatives (-14 up to -20) and every other mitten breaks down at that 
 point, 
 especially cycling specific products.

 On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 12:29:51 PM UTC-6 mmille...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

 I've used an older version of these First Lite mittens 
 
  
 for hunting, and they also had enough feel to operate my cameras. 
 Obviously, they are expensive. My version was much cheaper! But when 
 working for hours in the Dakotas and Minnesota, they were perfect and well 
 worth it. Wool still works when damp, and I sometimes used just the 
 outside 
 with different liners.

 On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 12:43:27 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

 The trouble with those, besides being bulky looking, is our big 
 temperature differentials. I can often leave at 9 am at 18*F and come back 
 at 50*F. I daresay that if I were riding long periods at sub 20* I'd think 
 differently.

 On Tue, Oct 3, 2023 at 9:54 AM Wesley  wrote:

 Honestly, Bar Mitts brand neoprene pogies are so amazing that I would 
 recommend just buying enough pairs that you can put them on each bike. Or 
 swapping one pair between bikes as necessary (that can be complicated on 
 the drop-bar version, depending on your cable routing). They are far 
 beyond 
 any gloves or mittens worn on the hands because they block the cold wind 
 without being bulky or interfering with your handling the controls. I have 
 fingers that are quite cold-sensitive, and I used Bar Mitts for seven 
 years 
 of commuting in Wisconsin winters. On the below-zero days I would only 
 have 
 to add a pair of minimalist knitted gloves (the kind they sell for 99 
 cents 
 at the supermarket checkout.) 

 -- 

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 Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Best mitten design for very cold weather

[Will Boericke]

All leather for this job is a tough choice in my use case.  I need mitts to 
be occasionally waterproof but more often breathable.  And in fact, I'll 
err on the side of breathable because a very waterproof mitt will leave me 
with wet hands inside anyway.  To get leather to the waterproof stage, you 
need a sealant (I like SnoSeal), rendering it basically non-breathable.  My 
personal compromise is a mountaineering mitten with removable liner and a 
leather palm.  I get the grippiness and longevity of leather (synthetic 
substitutes are far inferior), which I can waterproof + the breathability 
of modern membranes (PFCs are a downside).  I dispose of the factory liner 
beacuse they're usually garbage and use a dense, lightweight wool mitten, 
knit by my loving mother.

Will



On Thursday, October 5, 2023 at 2:04:35 PM UTC-4 Coal Bee Rye Anne wrote:

> I also like my Kinco mitts but one note of clarification is that their 
> built in liner is of the 'fingered/gloved' type so each digit is lined 
> separately within the mitten.  They are otherwise much warmer than the now 
> heavily worn out cashmere lined leather gloves I was previously using for 
> most of my winter riding.  Those older gloves were better for gripping a 
> variety of bars and using controls but nowhere near as effective for 
> keeping my fingers warm or dry.  My Kinco mitts also came with a pack of 
> Nikwax (I think) waterproofing paste to work into the leather.  
>
> On Thursday, October 5, 2023 at 1:45:59 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Thanks, a second +1 for Kinco products. They're on my short list.
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 4, 2023 at 2:02 PM David Pulsipher  wrote:
>>
>>> The best mittens, hands down - for warmth and cost are the Kinco Ski 
>>> Mitt . They can be broken in so they aren't 
>>> super dextrous, but as far as warmth goes, I've used them well into the 
>>> negatives (-14 up to -20) and every other mitten breaks down at that point, 
>>> especially cycling specific products.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 12:29:51 PM UTC-6 mmille...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I've used an older version of these First Lite mittens 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> for hunting, and they also had enough feel to operate my cameras. 
>>> Obviously, they are expensive. My version was much cheaper! But when 
>>> working for hours in the Dakotas and Minnesota, they were perfect and well 
>>> worth it. Wool still works when damp, and I sometimes used just the outside 
>>> with different liners.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 12:43:27 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
>>> The trouble with those, besides being bulky looking, is our big 
>>> temperature differentials. I can often leave at 9 am at 18*F and come back 
>>> at 50*F. I daresay that if I were riding long periods at sub 20* I'd think 
>>> differently.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2023 at 9:54 AM Wesley  wrote:
>>>
>>> Honestly, Bar Mitts brand neoprene pogies are so amazing that I would 
>>> recommend just buying enough pairs that you can put them on each bike. Or 
>>> swapping one pair between bikes as necessary (that can be complicated on 
>>> the drop-bar version, depending on your cable routing). They are far beyond 
>>> any gloves or mittens worn on the hands because they block the cold wind 
>>> without being bulky or interfering with your handling the controls. I have 
>>> fingers that are quite cold-sensitive, and I used Bar Mitts for seven years 
>>> of commuting in Wisconsin winters. On the below-zero days I would only have 
>>> to add a pair of minimalist knitted gloves (the kind they sell for 99 cents 
>>> at the supermarket checkout.) 
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/2b58be91-c9fb-49c7-a44a-b95945a93600n%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> -
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> -
>>
>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
>> services.
>>
>>
>> -
>>
>> *When thou didst not, savage,*
>>
>> *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*
>>
>> *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes*
>>
>> *With words that made them 

Re: [RBW] Re: Best mitten design for very cold weather

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

I also like my Kinco mitts but one note of clarification is that their 
built in liner is of the 'fingered/gloved' type so each digit is lined 
separately within the mitten.  They are otherwise much warmer than the now 
heavily worn out cashmere lined leather gloves I was previously using for 
most of my winter riding.  Those older gloves were better for gripping a 
variety of bars and using controls but nowhere near as effective for 
keeping my fingers warm or dry.  My Kinco mitts also came with a pack of 
Nikwax (I think) waterproofing paste to work into the leather.  

On Thursday, October 5, 2023 at 1:45:59 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Thanks, a second +1 for Kinco products. They're on my short list.
>
> On Wed, Oct 4, 2023 at 2:02 PM David Pulsipher  wrote:
>
>> The best mittens, hands down - for warmth and cost are the Kinco Ski Mitt 
>> . They can be broken in so they aren't super 
>> dextrous, but as far as warmth goes, I've used them well into the negatives 
>> (-14 up to -20) and every other mitten breaks down at that point, 
>> especially cycling specific products.
>>
>> On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 12:29:51 PM UTC-6 mmille...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I've used an older version of these First Lite mittens 
>> 
>>  
>> for hunting, and they also had enough feel to operate my cameras. 
>> Obviously, they are expensive. My version was much cheaper! But when 
>> working for hours in the Dakotas and Minnesota, they were perfect and well 
>> worth it. Wool still works when damp, and I sometimes used just the outside 
>> with different liners.
>>
>> On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 12:43:27 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> The trouble with those, besides being bulky looking, is our big 
>> temperature differentials. I can often leave at 9 am at 18*F and come back 
>> at 50*F. I daresay that if I were riding long periods at sub 20* I'd think 
>> differently.
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2023 at 9:54 AM Wesley  wrote:
>>
>> Honestly, Bar Mitts brand neoprene pogies are so amazing that I would 
>> recommend just buying enough pairs that you can put them on each bike. Or 
>> swapping one pair between bikes as necessary (that can be complicated on 
>> the drop-bar version, depending on your cable routing). They are far beyond 
>> any gloves or mittens worn on the hands because they block the cold wind 
>> without being bulky or interfering with your handling the controls. I have 
>> fingers that are quite cold-sensitive, and I used Bar Mitts for seven years 
>> of commuting in Wisconsin winters. On the below-zero days I would only have 
>> to add a pair of minimalist knitted gloves (the kind they sell for 99 cents 
>> at the supermarket checkout.) 
>>
>> -- 
>>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/2b58be91-c9fb-49c7-a44a-b95945a93600n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> -
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> -
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
> services.
>
>
> -
>
> *When thou didst not, savage,*
>
> *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*
>
> *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes*
>
> *With words that made them known.*
>

-- 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Best mitten design for very cold weather

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, a second +1 for Kinco products. They're on my short list.

On Wed, Oct 4, 2023 at 2:02 PM David Pulsipher  wrote:

> The best mittens, hands down - for warmth and cost are the Kinco Ski Mitt
> . They can be broken in so they aren't super
> dextrous, but as far as warmth goes, I've used them well into the negatives
> (-14 up to -20) and every other mitten breaks down at that point,
> especially cycling specific products.
>
> On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 12:29:51 PM UTC-6 mmille...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
> I've used an older version of these First Lite mittens
> 
> for hunting, and they also had enough feel to operate my cameras.
> Obviously, they are expensive. My version was much cheaper! But when
> working for hours in the Dakotas and Minnesota, they were perfect and well
> worth it. Wool still works when damp, and I sometimes used just the outside
> with different liners.
>
> On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 12:43:27 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> The trouble with those, besides being bulky looking, is our big
> temperature differentials. I can often leave at 9 am at 18*F and come back
> at 50*F. I daresay that if I were riding long periods at sub 20* I'd think
> differently.
>
> On Tue, Oct 3, 2023 at 9:54 AM Wesley  wrote:
>
> Honestly, Bar Mitts brand neoprene pogies are so amazing that I would
> recommend just buying enough pairs that you can put them on each bike. Or
> swapping one pair between bikes as necessary (that can be complicated on
> the drop-bar version, depending on your cable routing). They are far beyond
> any gloves or mittens worn on the hands because they block the cold wind
> without being bulky or interfering with your handling the controls. I have
> fingers that are quite cold-sensitive, and I used Bar Mitts for seven years
> of commuting in Wisconsin winters. On the below-zero days I would only have
> to add a pair of minimalist knitted gloves (the kind they sell for 99 cents
> at the supermarket checkout.)
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Best mitten design for very cold weather

[David Pulsipher]

The best mittens, hands down - for warmth and cost are the Kinco Ski Mitt 
. They can be broken in so they aren't super 
dextrous, but as far as warmth goes, I've used them well into the negatives 
(-14 up to -20) and every other mitten breaks down at that point, 
especially cycling specific products.

On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 12:29:51 PM UTC-6 mmille...@gmail.com wrote:

I've used an older version of these First Lite mittens 

 
for hunting, and they also had enough feel to operate my cameras. 
Obviously, they are expensive. My version was much cheaper! But when 
working for hours in the Dakotas and Minnesota, they were perfect and well 
worth it. Wool still works when damp, and I sometimes used just the outside 
with different liners.

On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 12:43:27 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

The trouble with those, besides being bulky looking, is our big temperature 
differentials. I can often leave at 9 am at 18*F and come back at 50*F. I 
daresay that if I were riding long periods at sub 20* I'd think differently.

On Tue, Oct 3, 2023 at 9:54 AM Wesley  wrote:

Honestly, Bar Mitts brand neoprene pogies are so amazing that I would 
recommend just buying enough pairs that you can put them on each bike. Or 
swapping one pair between bikes as necessary (that can be complicated on 
the drop-bar version, depending on your cable routing). They are far beyond 
any gloves or mittens worn on the hands because they block the cold wind 
without being bulky or interfering with your handling the controls. I have 
fingers that are quite cold-sensitive, and I used Bar Mitts for seven years 
of commuting in Wisconsin winters. On the below-zero days I would only have 
to add a pair of minimalist knitted gloves (the kind they sell for 99 cents 
at the supermarket checkout.) 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Best mitten design for very cold weather

[matt miller]

I've used an older version of these First Lite mittens 

 
for hunting, and they also had enough feel to operate my cameras. 
Obviously, they are expensive. My version was much cheaper! But when 
working for hours in the Dakotas and Minnesota, they were perfect and well 
worth it. Wool still works when damp, and I sometimes used just the outside 
with different liners.

On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 12:43:27 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> The trouble with those, besides being bulky looking, is our big 
> temperature differentials. I can often leave at 9 am at 18*F and come back 
> at 50*F. I daresay that if I were riding long periods at sub 20* I'd think 
> differently.
>
> On Tue, Oct 3, 2023 at 9:54 AM Wesley  wrote:
>
>> Honestly, Bar Mitts brand neoprene pogies are so amazing that I would 
>> recommend just buying enough pairs that you can put them on each bike. Or 
>> swapping one pair between bikes as necessary (that can be complicated on 
>> the drop-bar version, depending on your cable routing). They are far beyond 
>> any gloves or mittens worn on the hands because they block the cold wind 
>> without being bulky or interfering with your handling the controls. I have 
>> fingers that are quite cold-sensitive, and I used Bar Mitts for seven years 
>> of commuting in Wisconsin winters. On the below-zero days I would only have 
>> to add a pair of minimalist knitted gloves (the kind they sell for 99 cents 
>> at the supermarket checkout.) 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Best mitten design for very cold weather

[Patrick Moore]

The trouble with those, besides being bulky looking, is our big temperature
differentials. I can often leave at 9 am at 18*F and come back at 50*F. I
daresay that if I were riding long periods at sub 20* I'd think differently.

On Tue, Oct 3, 2023 at 9:54 AM Wesley  wrote:

> Honestly, Bar Mitts brand neoprene pogies are so amazing that I would
> recommend just buying enough pairs that you can put them on each bike. Or
> swapping one pair between bikes as necessary (that can be complicated on
> the drop-bar version, depending on your cable routing). They are far beyond
> any gloves or mittens worn on the hands because they block the cold wind
> without being bulky or interfering with your handling the controls. I have
> fingers that are quite cold-sensitive, and I used Bar Mitts for seven years
> of commuting in Wisconsin winters. On the below-zero days I would only have
> to add a pair of minimalist knitted gloves (the kind they sell for 99 cents
> at the supermarket checkout.)

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Re: [RBW] Re: Best mitten design for very cold weather

[Wesley]

Honestly, Bar Mitts brand neoprene pogies are so amazing that I would 
recommend just buying enough pairs that you can put them on each bike. Or 
swapping one pair between bikes as necessary (that can be complicated on 
the drop-bar version, depending on your cable routing). They are far beyond 
any gloves or mittens worn on the hands because they block the cold wind 
without being bulky or interfering with your handling the controls. I have 
fingers that are quite cold-sensitive, and I used Bar Mitts for seven years 
of commuting in Wisconsin winters. On the below-zero days I would only have 
to add a pair of minimalist knitted gloves (the kind they sell for 99 cents 
at the supermarket checkout.) 

Bar Mitts rock.
-Wes 

On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 8:42:59 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Thanks all again. Now the problem is, there are too many damned choices. 
> My first choice would be that Gander hunters' mitten with the flip-back 
> finger cover but I can't find it online. I'll have to review the other 
> choices again, but right now (probably because I just looked at it) I'm 
> leaning at 45* toward the LLBean Goretex Primaloft mitten because, well 
> because I just looked at it, but also because it's got a bit of a gauntlet 
> but not elbow-length, and it has positive reviews from a Canadian winter 
> runner and (unless he was being sarcastic) someone who said he wore it 
> comfortably in Antartica. And it's only $70, *and *I've meant to try 
> LLBean again after decades; I used to be a good customer.
>
> Hand warmers: thanks for the suggestion, but my very cold weather rides 
> tend to be brief, if only because at 5K feet, once the sun comes up the 
> temperatures also shoot up. So an easy-on/easy off mitten with a wool 
> underglove is a good system for my riding.
>
> I'll have some winter gear for sale shortly: Very nice but slightly too 
> short Wabi Woolens LS jersey professionally and excellently retrofitted 
> with a full-length zipper; a Varusteleka heavy full-zip, high-neck sweater 
> with thumb holes but too heavy for my needs; and some Large little used PI 
> lobster mitts. Watch this space.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Best mitten design for very cold weather

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks all again. Now the problem is, there are too many damned choices. My
first choice would be that Gander hunters' mitten with the flip-back finger
cover but I can't find it online. I'll have to review the other choices
again, but right now (probably because I just looked at it) I'm leaning at
45* toward the LLBean Goretex Primaloft mitten because, well because I just
looked at it, but also because it's got a bit of a gauntlet but not
elbow-length, and it has positive reviews from a Canadian winter runner and
(unless he was being sarcastic) someone who said he wore it comfortably in
Antartica. And it's only $70, *and *I've meant to try LLBean again after
decades; I used to be a good customer.

Hand warmers: thanks for the suggestion, but my very cold weather rides
tend to be brief, if only because at 5K feet, once the sun comes up the
temperatures also shoot up. So an easy-on/easy off mitten with a wool
underglove is a good system for my riding.

I'll have some winter gear for sale shortly: Very nice but slightly too
short Wabi Woolens LS jersey professionally and excellently retrofitted
with a full-length zipper; a Varusteleka heavy full-zip, high-neck sweater
with thumb holes but too heavy for my needs; and some Large little used PI
lobster mitts. Watch this space.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Best mitten design for very cold weather

[Justin Kennedy]

I use the LL Bean buckskin chopper mittens over a pair of Riv dotty wool 
gloves. I find the mitten liner the chopper mitts come with to be TOO warm, 
in fact, and my hands sweat. (I think they're synthetic.) It's also nice to 
have some dexterity with actual gloves underneath rather than another pair 
of mittens under. You can even wear them with fingerless dottys and stay 
reasonably warm. 

https://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/502856?originalProduct=60315=1158101

https://www.rivbike.com/products/dotty-wool-gloves-pair

On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 9:19:27 PM UTC-4 rus...@gmail.com wrote:

> Bloody hell, reasonably priced gloves
>
> On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 7:18:40 PM UTC-6 Russell Duncan wrote:
>
>> I use the treasonably priced TEMRES 282-02 gloves for a variety of winter 
>> activities, including riding ATVs and snowmobiles. Good shoulder season 
>> gloves by themselves or add a wool liner. Great gloves for snow shoveling. 
>> For that shoulder season time of the year, I drop down a size. For colder 
>> weather, I use Size XL with a liner.
>>
>> https://gearjunkie.com/apparel/showa-temres-282-02-review
>>
>> Russell Duncan
>> Leverett, MA and Saratoga, WY
>> On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 5:11:06 AM UTC-6 Nick Payne wrote:
>>
>>> Have you tried USB heated gloves? A friend we go riding with swears by 
>>> them in winter, though I haven't used them myself. In winter here we're 
>>> sometimes riding in temperatures of -5C or accasionally a couple of degrees 
>>> colder (somewhere around 20F). At those temperatures I find that a pair of 
>>> Roeckl lobster mitts over thin woolen gloves keep my fingers feeling OK. 
>>> For feet I have a pair of Shimano winter shoes - I think the model is MW7. 
>>> The best skullcaps for those sort of temperatures I've found, that will fit 
>>> under a helmet, are made by Vaude.
>>>
>>> Nick Payne
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Best mitten design for very cold weather

[Russell Duncan]

Bloody hell, reasonably priced gloves

On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 7:18:40 PM UTC-6 Russell Duncan wrote:

> I use the treasonably priced TEMRES 282-02 gloves for a variety of winter 
> activities, including riding ATVs and snowmobiles. Good shoulder season 
> gloves by themselves or add a wool liner. Great gloves for snow shoveling. 
> For that shoulder season time of the year, I drop down a size. For colder 
> weather, I use Size XL with a liner.
>
> https://gearjunkie.com/apparel/showa-temres-282-02-review
>
> Russell Duncan
> Leverett, MA and Saratoga, WY
> On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 5:11:06 AM UTC-6 Nick Payne wrote:
>
>> Have you tried USB heated gloves? A friend we go riding with swears by 
>> them in winter, though I haven't used them myself. In winter here we're 
>> sometimes riding in temperatures of -5C or accasionally a couple of degrees 
>> colder (somewhere around 20F). At those temperatures I find that a pair of 
>> Roeckl lobster mitts over thin woolen gloves keep my fingers feeling OK. 
>> For feet I have a pair of Shimano winter shoes - I think the model is MW7. 
>> The best skullcaps for those sort of temperatures I've found, that will fit 
>> under a helmet, are made by Vaude.
>>
>> Nick Payne
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Best mitten design for very cold weather

[Russell Duncan]

I use the treasonably priced TEMRES 282-02 gloves for a variety of winter 
activities, including riding ATVs and snowmobiles. Good shoulder season 
gloves by themselves or add a wool liner. Great gloves for snow shoveling. 
For that shoulder season time of the year, I drop down a size. For colder 
weather, I use Size XL with a liner.

https://gearjunkie.com/apparel/showa-temres-282-02-review

Russell Duncan
Leverett, MA and Saratoga, WY
On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 5:11:06 AM UTC-6 Nick Payne wrote:

> Have you tried USB heated gloves? A friend we go riding with swears by 
> them in winter, though I haven't used them myself. In winter here we're 
> sometimes riding in temperatures of -5C or accasionally a couple of degrees 
> colder (somewhere around 20F). At those temperatures I find that a pair of 
> Roeckl lobster mitts over thin woolen gloves keep my fingers feeling OK. 
> For feet I have a pair of Shimano winter shoes - I think the model is MW7. 
> The best skullcaps for those sort of temperatures I've found, that will fit 
> under a helmet, are made by Vaude.
>
> Nick Payne
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Best mitten design for very cold weather

[Nick Payne]

Have you tried USB heated gloves? A friend we go riding with swears by them 
in winter, though I haven't used them myself. In winter here we're 
sometimes riding in temperatures of -5C or accasionally a couple of degrees 
colder (somewhere around 20F). At those temperatures I find that a pair of 
Roeckl lobster mitts over thin woolen gloves keep my fingers feeling OK. 
For feet I have a pair of Shimano winter shoes - I think the model is MW7. 
The best skullcaps for those sort of temperatures I've found, that will fit 
under a helmet, are made by Vaude.

Nick Payne

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Re: [RBW] Re: Best mitten design for very cold weather

[Pam Bikes]

I wear Uggs gloves that are shearling w/the Riv overmitts on top.  The 
overmitts don't have a palm so the palm is still my leather glove palm.  
The layering combo is best for me.  I tried ski gloves but didn't feel like 
they were as warm.  And these were the down filled ski gloves.  And the 
palm wasn't as grippy.

On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 3:12:42 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> The Gander Thinsulate finger flap design would be perfect. Long ago I had 
> something like that, though not as warm as I need: basically a gauntlet 
> cycling glove with leather padded palm and half fingers with flip up finger 
> covers. I'd very much like to get something similar but with more 
> insulation and bigger finger holes so I can wear a wool glove underneath.
>
> I Googled (and duckduckgo'd, but ddg is useless for serious searches) 
> Gander mittens but found nothing like yours. Are these still made? Does 
> anyone have a link to an online source?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Will: boiled wool is indeed warm and I might look for thick boiled wool 
> mittens to wear over wool DeFeet gloves or liners, but the flip-cap design 
> is very handy.
>
> Jeff: I've given up on PI Lobsters after finding my second pair in ~4 
> years awkward to put on and cold below about 20*F.
>
> On Sat, Sep 30, 2023 at 8:30 AM Marc Irwin  wrote:
>
>> I've used hunter's mittens for years.  They have a lot of practical 
>> advantages : 
>> http://simplecycle-marc.blogspot.com/2013/02/toasty-hands.html
>>
>> Marc
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Best mitten design for very cold weather

[Patrick Moore]

The Gander Thinsulate finger flap design would be perfect. Long ago I had
something like that, though not as warm as I need: basically a gauntlet
cycling glove with leather padded palm and half fingers with flip up finger
covers. I'd very much like to get something similar but with more
insulation and bigger finger holes so I can wear a wool glove underneath.

I Googled (and duckduckgo'd, but ddg is useless for serious searches)
Gander mittens but found nothing like yours. Are these still made? Does
anyone have a link to an online source?

Thanks.

Will: boiled wool is indeed warm and I might look for thick boiled wool
mittens to wear over wool DeFeet gloves or liners, but the flip-cap design
is very handy.

Jeff: I've given up on PI Lobsters after finding my second pair in ~4 years
awkward to put on and cold below about 20*F.

On Sat, Sep 30, 2023 at 8:30 AM Marc Irwin  wrote:

> I've used hunter's mittens for years.  They have a lot of practical
> advantages :
> http://simplecycle-marc.blogspot.com/2013/02/toasty-hands.html
>
> Marc
>

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[RBW] Re: Best mitten design for very cold weather

['jeffrey kane' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I"m a Lobster Mitt man, myself. I commute through the winters in NYC and 
Pearl Izumi has been the go-to. I think I'm on my third pair in around 25 
years or so. They clean up well in the washer, hang dry - never the dryer 
(ask me how I know). The upper cuff isn't too annoying with various 
jackets, etc. I switch over to them when the temps drop to the low 30's. 
They aren't perfect below say, 10 degrees - but they're still pretty good - 
and for sure, I try to keep my trips short when it's below 10 degrees 
anyway.

They've evolved over the years - I'm about to try out a new pair this 
winter. I purchased them from Tri-Sports last Spring when they were on sale 
at $42.99. It looks like they're back up to full retail price again but 
maybe search around for a better price if you're interested.

https://www.trisports.com/product/pearl-izumi-amfib-lobster-gel-glov
On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 4:15:59 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> The fall style thread raises a question about keeping your hands warm in 
> very cold temperatures (for me, very cold means in the teens F). My fingers 
> are very sensitive to the cold. I've bought 2 or 3 pairs of PI Lobster 
> gloves but I've been disappointed in the fit and the warmth. 
>
> I've used Outdoor Research heavy nylon mitten sheaths with thick boiled 
> wool mittens underneath, and those were very warm indeed, but very awkward 
> to ride in, even on a fixed gear where you have to handle only the brake 
> levers.
>
> Varusteleka currently has a number of mil surplus mittens with separate 
> thumb, separate thumb and trigger finger, and separate thumb and first 2 
> fingers. The whole point of mittens is to bundle the fingers together in 
> one compartment for mutual warmth, so each added finger compartment 
> sacrifices warmth.
>
> Does anyone have thoughts on a glove or a mitten or a system that gives 
> the best mix of warmth and dexterity? And perhaps some particular gloves or 
> mittens that fit the bill?
>
> Right now, I've got hugely oversized 5-finger gloves under which I can 
> wear wool knit gloves, under which in turn I can wear silk liners, but this 
> sort of layer system is cumbersome to put on and take off.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -- 
>
> -
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> -
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
> services.
>
>
> -
>
> *When thou didst not, savage,*
>
> *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*
>
> *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes*
>
> *With words that made them known.*
>

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[RBW] Re: Best mitten design for very cold weather

[R. Alexis]

I saw these on Ponderosa Cycles site a few weeks ago while browsing. I have 
dealt with the owner in the past. Worked and partially owned a couple 
different shops in the past. I will have to check them out next time I am 
hanging in the area. Missed them several weeks ago while out riding. 

Thanks,

Reginald Alexis

On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 4:27:57 PM UTC-5 rcook...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Patrick,
>
> I too have tried the lobster-claw gloves and found them disappointing. 
> Sure, there was some protection across the back from wind, but I could feel 
> cold brake levers through the palm side. I put up with it for a few years, 
> then used Bar Mitts, which were warm enough for me but unwieldy, especially 
> on drop bars. I finally settled on these: 
> http://www.ponderosacyclery.com/store/garbagechopper-mitt
>
> They are much warmer than one might think. A wool liner glove would make 
> them even warmer. Not that my fingers still don't get cold in them below, 
> say, 15°F, but they are roomy and allow for warming movement. Also, the 
> elastic wrist band tucks nicely into jacket sleeves and is long enough not 
> to slide out easily.
>
> --
> Bob Cook
> On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 2:15:59 PM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> The fall style thread raises a question about keeping your hands warm in 
>> very cold temperatures (for me, very cold means in the teens F). My fingers 
>> are very sensitive to the cold. I've bought 2 or 3 pairs of PI Lobster 
>> gloves but I've been disappointed in the fit and the warmth. 
>>
>> I've used Outdoor Research heavy nylon mitten sheaths with thick boiled 
>> wool mittens underneath, and those were very warm indeed, but very awkward 
>> to ride in, even on a fixed gear where you have to handle only the brake 
>> levers.
>>
>> Varusteleka currently has a number of mil surplus mittens with separate 
>> thumb, separate thumb and trigger finger, and separate thumb and first 2 
>> fingers. The whole point of mittens is to bundle the fingers together in 
>> one compartment for mutual warmth, so each added finger compartment 
>> sacrifices warmth.
>>
>> Does anyone have thoughts on a glove or a mitten or a system that gives 
>> the best mix of warmth and dexterity? And perhaps some particular gloves or 
>> mittens that fit the bill?
>>
>> Right now, I've got hugely oversized 5-finger gloves under which I can 
>> wear wool knit gloves, under which in turn I can wear silk liners, but this 
>> sort of layer system is cumbersome to put on and take off.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> -
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> -
>>
>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
>> services.
>>
>>
>> -
>>
>> *When thou didst not, savage,*
>>
>> *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*
>>
>> *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes*
>>
>> *With words that made them known.*
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Best mitten design for very cold weather

[Marc Irwin]

I've used hunter's mittens for years.  They have a lot of practical 
advantages : http://simplecycle-marc.blogspot.com/2013/02/toasty-hands.html

Marc

On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 4:15:59 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> The fall style thread raises a question about keeping your hands warm in 
> very cold temperatures (for me, very cold means in the teens F). My fingers 
> are very sensitive to the cold. I've bought 2 or 3 pairs of PI Lobster 
> gloves but I've been disappointed in the fit and the warmth. 
>
> I've used Outdoor Research heavy nylon mitten sheaths with thick boiled 
> wool mittens underneath, and those were very warm indeed, but very awkward 
> to ride in, even on a fixed gear where you have to handle only the brake 
> levers.
>
> Varusteleka currently has a number of mil surplus mittens with separate 
> thumb, separate thumb and trigger finger, and separate thumb and first 2 
> fingers. The whole point of mittens is to bundle the fingers together in 
> one compartment for mutual warmth, so each added finger compartment 
> sacrifices warmth.
>
> Does anyone have thoughts on a glove or a mitten or a system that gives 
> the best mix of warmth and dexterity? And perhaps some particular gloves or 
> mittens that fit the bill?
>
> Right now, I've got hugely oversized 5-finger gloves under which I can 
> wear wool knit gloves, under which in turn I can wear silk liners, but this 
> sort of layer system is cumbersome to put on and take off.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -- 
>
> -
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> -
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
> services.
>
>
> -
>
> *When thou didst not, savage,*
>
> *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*
>
> *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes*
>
> *With words that made them known.*
>

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[RBW] Re: Best mitten design for very cold weather

['William Watson' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I'm still experimenting, but I knit a few pairs of large mittens a few 
years ago, and then shrunk them down alternating between hot and cold water 
to shrink/felt them for more warmth. They worked well with all my bikes. In 
a pinch when it got well below 0 here in Minneapolis, I layered the thicker 
mittens over the thinner mittens over unused dog poop bags and was quite 
warm lol. 
Will

On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 9:48:27 PM UTC-5 Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY 
wrote:

> I believe the Craft brand lobster/trigger mitts to be rubbish. They don’t 
> let your fingers touch, wasting valuable insulation in between what could 
> otherwise be a cozy skin to skin situation. I love my relatively 
> inexpensive Toko brand cross-country ski gloves, they allow my fingers to 
> cuddle in comfort and perform their bike duties in single digit temps.
> I’ve got three pairs of xxl, which will hopefully buy me a decade or so of 
> winter bliss…
> -Kai
>
> On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 2:49:14 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Thanks, all. First, should have specified: No bar mitts or Pogies as I 
>> need something that attaches to the hands and can be used on several bikes 
>> with drop bars.
>>
>> From extensive experimenting I'm now convinced that for the teens mittens 
>> are best, especially as its easiest to get wool undergloves into them than 
>> into 2-finger, 3-finger, or 5-finger gloves. (Peeve: the PIs I bought in 
>> 2022 or 2021 have a loose flannelly lining that grabs the material of the 
>> wool under gloves you are trying to insert, causing much cussing and 
>> gnashing of teeth. The earlier ones, from a year or so earlier had a less 
>> grabby lining and I wish I'd kept them, but I thought at the time they were 
>> too big.)
>>
>> The question then is, what mittens let you brake safely and shift 
>> precisely?
>>
>> The Garbage Choppers look very promising, and you say that you have no 
>> problems with dt shifters or mtb trigger shifters. That's encouraging. The 
>> Outdoor Research nylon cover + boiled wool mitten was exquisitely warm but 
>> made it hard to brake, let alone shift -- the mitts were stiff and 
>> slippery. But the GCs are made from leather, so presumably much more 
>> flexible and more grippy. I have to shift bar end shifters in friction and 
>> a Sturmey Archer trigger mounted upside-down on the bottom far end of the 
>> right drop bar hook.
>>
>> Garth: The Kincos look like good value but I'm more skeptical about the 
>> warmth of 5-finger gloves compared to mittens. Do you find something like 
>> this warm into the teens? Without nitrile undergloves? (I ain't gonna add 
>> hassle to my already hasselous winter dressing with tight-fitting rubber 
>> gloves!) The prices are certainly good.
>>
>> I take it this would be the item to get? 
>> https://www.amazon.com/Kinco-Lined-Grain-Pigskin-Glove/dp/B01AT2XXX4?th=1
>>
>> Will: thanks for the Craft link. The price is good, but I think I'll look 
>> first for mittens that are less cumbersome than the OR set I had. But link 
>> noted for future reference.
>>
>> Patrick Moore, who will probably have a late-ish model pair of PI 
>> lobsters for sale before too long.
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2023 at 2:15 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>>> The fall style thread raises a question about keeping your hands warm in 
>>> very cold temperatures (for me, very cold means in the teens F). My fingers 
>>> are very sensitive to the cold. I've bought 2 or 3 pairs of PI Lobster 
>>> gloves but I've been disappointed in the fit and the warmth. 
>>>
>>> I've used Outdoor Research heavy nylon mitten sheaths with thick boiled 
>>> wool mittens underneath, and those were very warm indeed, but very awkward 
>>> to ride in, even on a fixed gear where you have to handle only the brake 
>>> levers.
>>>
>>> Varusteleka currently has a number of mil surplus mittens with separate 
>>> thumb, separate thumb and trigger finger, and separate thumb and first 2 
>>> fingers. The whole point of mittens is to bundle the fingers together in 
>>> one compartment for mutual warmth, so each added finger compartment 
>>> sacrifices warmth.
>>>
>>> Does anyone have thoughts on a glove or a mitten or a system that gives 
>>> the best mix of warmth and dexterity? And perhaps some particular gloves or 
>>> mittens that fit the bill?
>>>
>>> Right now, I've got hugely oversized 5-finger gloves under which I can 
>>> wear wool knit gloves, under which in turn I can wear silk liners, but this 
>>> sort of layer system is cumbersome to put on and take off.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> -
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>> -
>>>
>>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
>>> services.
>>>
>>>
>>> 

[RBW] Re: Best mitten design for very cold weather

[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

I believe the Craft brand lobster/trigger mitts to be rubbish. They don’t 
let your fingers touch, wasting valuable insulation in between what could 
otherwise be a cozy skin to skin situation. I love my relatively 
inexpensive Toko brand cross-country ski gloves, they allow my fingers to 
cuddle in comfort and perform their bike duties in single digit temps.
I’ve got three pairs of xxl, which will hopefully buy me a decade or so of 
winter bliss…
-Kai

On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 2:49:14 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Thanks, all. First, should have specified: No bar mitts or Pogies as I 
> need something that attaches to the hands and can be used on several bikes 
> with drop bars.
>
> From extensive experimenting I'm now convinced that for the teens mittens 
> are best, especially as its easiest to get wool undergloves into them than 
> into 2-finger, 3-finger, or 5-finger gloves. (Peeve: the PIs I bought in 
> 2022 or 2021 have a loose flannelly lining that grabs the material of the 
> wool under gloves you are trying to insert, causing much cussing and 
> gnashing of teeth. The earlier ones, from a year or so earlier had a less 
> grabby lining and I wish I'd kept them, but I thought at the time they were 
> too big.)
>
> The question then is, what mittens let you brake safely and shift 
> precisely?
>
> The Garbage Choppers look very promising, and you say that you have no 
> problems with dt shifters or mtb trigger shifters. That's encouraging. The 
> Outdoor Research nylon cover + boiled wool mitten was exquisitely warm but 
> made it hard to brake, let alone shift -- the mitts were stiff and 
> slippery. But the GCs are made from leather, so presumably much more 
> flexible and more grippy. I have to shift bar end shifters in friction and 
> a Sturmey Archer trigger mounted upside-down on the bottom far end of the 
> right drop bar hook.
>
> Garth: The Kincos look like good value but I'm more skeptical about the 
> warmth of 5-finger gloves compared to mittens. Do you find something like 
> this warm into the teens? Without nitrile undergloves? (I ain't gonna add 
> hassle to my already hasselous winter dressing with tight-fitting rubber 
> gloves!) The prices are certainly good.
>
> I take it this would be the item to get? 
> https://www.amazon.com/Kinco-Lined-Grain-Pigskin-Glove/dp/B01AT2XXX4?th=1
>
> Will: thanks for the Craft link. The price is good, but I think I'll look 
> first for mittens that are less cumbersome than the OR set I had. But link 
> noted for future reference.
>
> Patrick Moore, who will probably have a late-ish model pair of PI lobsters 
> for sale before too long.
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2023 at 2:15 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> The fall style thread raises a question about keeping your hands warm in 
>> very cold temperatures (for me, very cold means in the teens F). My fingers 
>> are very sensitive to the cold. I've bought 2 or 3 pairs of PI Lobster 
>> gloves but I've been disappointed in the fit and the warmth. 
>>
>> I've used Outdoor Research heavy nylon mitten sheaths with thick boiled 
>> wool mittens underneath, and those were very warm indeed, but very awkward 
>> to ride in, even on a fixed gear where you have to handle only the brake 
>> levers.
>>
>> Varusteleka currently has a number of mil surplus mittens with separate 
>> thumb, separate thumb and trigger finger, and separate thumb and first 2 
>> fingers. The whole point of mittens is to bundle the fingers together in 
>> one compartment for mutual warmth, so each added finger compartment 
>> sacrifices warmth.
>>
>> Does anyone have thoughts on a glove or a mitten or a system that gives 
>> the best mix of warmth and dexterity? And perhaps some particular gloves or 
>> mittens that fit the bill?
>>
>> Right now, I've got hugely oversized 5-finger gloves under which I can 
>> wear wool knit gloves, under which in turn I can wear silk liners, but this 
>> sort of layer system is cumbersome to put on and take off.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> -
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> -
>>
>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
>> services.
>>
>>
>> -
>>
>> *When thou didst not, savage,*
>>
>> *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*
>>
>> *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes*
>>
>> *With words that made them known.*
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> -
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> -
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn 

[RBW] Re: Best mitten design for very cold weather

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, all. First, should have specified: No bar mitts or Pogies as I need
something that attaches to the hands and can be used on several bikes with
drop bars.

>From extensive experimenting I'm now convinced that for the teens mittens
are best, especially as its easiest to get wool undergloves into them than
into 2-finger, 3-finger, or 5-finger gloves. (Peeve: the PIs I bought in
2022 or 2021 have a loose flannelly lining that grabs the material of the
wool under gloves you are trying to insert, causing much cussing and
gnashing of teeth. The earlier ones, from a year or so earlier had a less
grabby lining and I wish I'd kept them, but I thought at the time they were
too big.)

The question then is, what mittens let you brake safely and shift precisely?

The Garbage Choppers look very promising, and you say that you have no
problems with dt shifters or mtb trigger shifters. That's encouraging. The
Outdoor Research nylon cover + boiled wool mitten was exquisitely warm but
made it hard to brake, let alone shift -- the mitts were stiff and
slippery. But the GCs are made from leather, so presumably much more
flexible and more grippy. I have to shift bar end shifters in friction and
a Sturmey Archer trigger mounted upside-down on the bottom far end of the
right drop bar hook.

Garth: The Kincos look like good value but I'm more skeptical about the
warmth of 5-finger gloves compared to mittens. Do you find something like
this warm into the teens? Without nitrile undergloves? (I ain't gonna add
hassle to my already hasselous winter dressing with tight-fitting rubber
gloves!) The prices are certainly good.

I take it this would be the item to get?
https://www.amazon.com/Kinco-Lined-Grain-Pigskin-Glove/dp/B01AT2XXX4?th=1

Will: thanks for the Craft link. The price is good, but I think I'll look
first for mittens that are less cumbersome than the OR set I had. But link
noted for future reference.

Patrick Moore, who will probably have a late-ish model pair of PI lobsters
for sale before too long.

On Thu, Sep 28, 2023 at 2:15 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> The fall style thread raises a question about keeping your hands warm in
> very cold temperatures (for me, very cold means in the teens F). My fingers
> are very sensitive to the cold. I've bought 2 or 3 pairs of PI Lobster
> gloves but I've been disappointed in the fit and the warmth.
>
> I've used Outdoor Research heavy nylon mitten sheaths with thick boiled
> wool mittens underneath, and those were very warm indeed, but very awkward
> to ride in, even on a fixed gear where you have to handle only the brake
> levers.
>
> Varusteleka currently has a number of mil surplus mittens with separate
> thumb, separate thumb and trigger finger, and separate thumb and first 2
> fingers. The whole point of mittens is to bundle the fingers together in
> one compartment for mutual warmth, so each added finger compartment
> sacrifices warmth.
>
> Does anyone have thoughts on a glove or a mitten or a system that gives
> the best mix of warmth and dexterity? And perhaps some particular gloves or
> mittens that fit the bill?
>
> Right now, I've got hugely oversized 5-finger gloves under which I can
> wear wool knit gloves, under which in turn I can wear silk liners, but this
> sort of layer system is cumbersome to put on and take off.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
>
> -
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> -
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
> services.
>
>
> -
>
> *When thou didst not, savage,*
>
> *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*
>
> *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes*
>
> *With words that made them known.*
>


-- 
-
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
-

Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
services.

-

*When thou didst not, savage,*

*Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*

*A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes*

*With words that made them known.*

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[RBW] Re: Best mitten design for very cold weather

[Garth]

I've gone through my own mitten/glove shenanigans on all the fancy brands 
I've turned to Kinco leather insulated gloves and mitts sold all sort of 
places locally and online. (Rural King for me !) They're anywhere from 
$15-$25. I don't wear anything though in the cold without nitrile gloves 
against the skin, 5 mil is good thickness. This retains the warm moisture 
in the hands and keeps the insulation dry. Their gloves and mitts use some 
sort of Kinco brand Heatkeep insulation, yeah whatever. as long as it's 
good enough. The mitts are their Axeman/1930 model. I have some 
Refridgewear mitts too but those are too warm for cycling, in fact they're 
the warmest mitt I've ever worn, including Rab Down mitts for 
mountaineering. The gloves I wear in milder temps are the Hydrofelctor 
Lined water-resistant premium grain cowhide driver/39HKP. When it's not too 
cold just a basic Kinco leather glove is fine, the Buffalo ones are nice 
and form fitting. They make many variations ! At least Kinco gloves have 
properly long finger lengths, something most fancy brands of gloves do not. 

I put off buying Kinco mitts for a long time as the lining inside is like a 
fleece glove and thought I wouldn't be able to make a fist or rub my 
fingers together. Silly me, the lining is sewn only around the cuff and 
your hand is free to move around in the mitten shell. 

Leather gloves of some sort are by far my preferred material as they offer 
adequate grip. block the wind, are never too hot, and they're durable. 
Kinco's are inexpensive but good quality. 


Later we can have the annual winter jacket post ! I bought some fancy form 
fitting Sportful road cycling jackets and so far they beat the pants off of 
anything I've ever worn. The favorite so far being the Fiandre Pro short 
sleeve jacket made with Polartec Neoshell fabric.


On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 4:15:59 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

The fall style thread raises a question about keeping your hands warm in 
very cold temperatures (for me, very cold means in the teens F). My fingers 
are very sensitive to the cold. I've bought 2 or 3 pairs of PI Lobster 
gloves but I've been disappointed in the fit and the warmth. 

I've used Outdoor Research heavy nylon mitten sheaths with thick boiled 
wool mittens underneath, and those were very warm indeed, but very awkward 
to ride in, even on a fixed gear where you have to handle only the brake 
levers.

Varusteleka currently has a number of mil surplus mittens with separate 
thumb, separate thumb and trigger finger, and separate thumb and first 2 
fingers. The whole point of mittens is to bundle the fingers together in 
one compartment for mutual warmth, so each added finger compartment 
sacrifices warmth.

Does anyone have thoughts on a glove or a mitten or a system that gives the 
best mix of warmth and dexterity? And perhaps some particular gloves or 
mittens that fit the bill?

Right now, I've got hugely oversized 5-finger gloves under which I can wear 
wool knit gloves, under which in turn I can wear silk liners, but this sort 
of layer system is cumbersome to put on and take off.

Thanks.

-- 
-
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
-

Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
services.

-

*When thou didst not, savage,*

*Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*

*A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes*

*With words that made them known.*

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[RBW] Re: Best mitten design for very cold weather

[Will Boericke]

Hahahaha, teens is cold.  Just some New England humor there. 

For those temps on my commute, lobsters are definitely where it's at.  The 
Pearl Izumi newest version is not so great.  I have the older, bulkier ones 
and they are warmer and better.  Try Craft or my favorite budget lobster 
.
  
I buy these in multiples because my children lose them, riding to school.

I had my mother knit me a lightweight pair of wool mitts - really close 
fitting - that I wear under overmitts when it's colder / wetter.  I think 
you should work with your OR overmitts and try various lighter weight 
innards.  I bought a set of military surplus wool gloves that are a great 
liner for slightly warmer temps (that's my 20-25F setup).

You basically want a lot of dead air space without bulk filling up that 
space.  So either synthetic lightweight insulation or a light liner and 
that air in your overmitt is your insulation.  

Will near Boston, having recently discovered that the seatpost on his 
winter commuter is totally frozen in place

On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 5:37:27 PM UTC-4 rcook...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Should have added: the chopper/garbage-hauler mittens worked very well on 
> bikes with downtube shifters and decently well on a fatbike with trigger 
> shifters. I can imagine having difficulty with brifters.
>
> --
> Bob Cook
>
> On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 3:27:57 PM UTC-6 Bob wrote:
>
>> Patrick,
>>
>> I too have tried the lobster-claw gloves and found them disappointing. 
>> Sure, there was some protection across the back from wind, but I could feel 
>> cold brake levers through the palm side. I put up with it for a few years, 
>> then used Bar Mitts, which were warm enough for me but unwieldy, especially 
>> on drop bars. I finally settled on these: 
>> http://www.ponderosacyclery.com/store/garbagechopper-mitt
>>
>> They are much warmer than one might think. A wool liner glove would make 
>> them even warmer. Not that my fingers still don't get cold in them below, 
>> say, 15°F, but they are roomy and allow for warming movement. Also, the 
>> elastic wrist band tucks nicely into jacket sleeves and is long enough not 
>> to slide out easily.
>>
>> --
>> Bob Cook
>> On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 2:15:59 PM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> The fall style thread raises a question about keeping your hands warm in 
>>> very cold temperatures (for me, very cold means in the teens F). My fingers 
>>> are very sensitive to the cold. I've bought 2 or 3 pairs of PI Lobster 
>>> gloves but I've been disappointed in the fit and the warmth. 
>>>
>>> I've used Outdoor Research heavy nylon mitten sheaths with thick boiled 
>>> wool mittens underneath, and those were very warm indeed, but very awkward 
>>> to ride in, even on a fixed gear where you have to handle only the brake 
>>> levers.
>>>
>>> Varusteleka currently has a number of mil surplus mittens with separate 
>>> thumb, separate thumb and trigger finger, and separate thumb and first 2 
>>> fingers. The whole point of mittens is to bundle the fingers together in 
>>> one compartment for mutual warmth, so each added finger compartment 
>>> sacrifices warmth.
>>>
>>> Does anyone have thoughts on a glove or a mitten or a system that gives 
>>> the best mix of warmth and dexterity? And perhaps some particular gloves or 
>>> mittens that fit the bill?
>>>
>>> Right now, I've got hugely oversized 5-finger gloves under which I can 
>>> wear wool knit gloves, under which in turn I can wear silk liners, but this 
>>> sort of layer system is cumbersome to put on and take off.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> -
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>> -
>>>
>>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
>>> services.
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>>
>>> *When thou didst not, savage,*
>>>
>>> *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*
>>>
>>> *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes*
>>>
>>> *With words that made them known.*
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Best mitten design for very cold weather

[Bob]

Should have added: the chopper/garbage-hauler mittens worked very well on 
bikes with downtube shifters and decently well on a fatbike with trigger 
shifters. I can imagine having difficulty with brifters.

--
Bob Cook

On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 3:27:57 PM UTC-6 Bob wrote:

> Patrick,
>
> I too have tried the lobster-claw gloves and found them disappointing. 
> Sure, there was some protection across the back from wind, but I could feel 
> cold brake levers through the palm side. I put up with it for a few years, 
> then used Bar Mitts, which were warm enough for me but unwieldy, especially 
> on drop bars. I finally settled on these: 
> http://www.ponderosacyclery.com/store/garbagechopper-mitt
>
> They are much warmer than one might think. A wool liner glove would make 
> them even warmer. Not that my fingers still don't get cold in them below, 
> say, 15°F, but they are roomy and allow for warming movement. Also, the 
> elastic wrist band tucks nicely into jacket sleeves and is long enough not 
> to slide out easily.
>
> --
> Bob Cook
> On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 2:15:59 PM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> The fall style thread raises a question about keeping your hands warm in 
>> very cold temperatures (for me, very cold means in the teens F). My fingers 
>> are very sensitive to the cold. I've bought 2 or 3 pairs of PI Lobster 
>> gloves but I've been disappointed in the fit and the warmth. 
>>
>> I've used Outdoor Research heavy nylon mitten sheaths with thick boiled 
>> wool mittens underneath, and those were very warm indeed, but very awkward 
>> to ride in, even on a fixed gear where you have to handle only the brake 
>> levers.
>>
>> Varusteleka currently has a number of mil surplus mittens with separate 
>> thumb, separate thumb and trigger finger, and separate thumb and first 2 
>> fingers. The whole point of mittens is to bundle the fingers together in 
>> one compartment for mutual warmth, so each added finger compartment 
>> sacrifices warmth.
>>
>> Does anyone have thoughts on a glove or a mitten or a system that gives 
>> the best mix of warmth and dexterity? And perhaps some particular gloves or 
>> mittens that fit the bill?
>>
>> Right now, I've got hugely oversized 5-finger gloves under which I can 
>> wear wool knit gloves, under which in turn I can wear silk liners, but this 
>> sort of layer system is cumbersome to put on and take off.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> -
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> -
>>
>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
>> services.
>>
>>
>> -
>>
>> *When thou didst not, savage,*
>>
>> *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*
>>
>> *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes*
>>
>> *With words that made them known.*
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Best mitten design for very cold weather

[Bob]

Patrick,

I too have tried the lobster-claw gloves and found them disappointing. 
Sure, there was some protection across the back from wind, but I could feel 
cold brake levers through the palm side. I put up with it for a few years, 
then used Bar Mitts, which were warm enough for me but unwieldy, especially 
on drop bars. I finally settled on these: 
http://www.ponderosacyclery.com/store/garbagechopper-mitt

They are much warmer than one might think. A wool liner glove would make 
them even warmer. Not that my fingers still don't get cold in them below, 
say, 15°F, but they are roomy and allow for warming movement. Also, the 
elastic wrist band tucks nicely into jacket sleeves and is long enough not 
to slide out easily.

--
Bob Cook
On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 2:15:59 PM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:

> The fall style thread raises a question about keeping your hands warm in 
> very cold temperatures (for me, very cold means in the teens F). My fingers 
> are very sensitive to the cold. I've bought 2 or 3 pairs of PI Lobster 
> gloves but I've been disappointed in the fit and the warmth. 
>
> I've used Outdoor Research heavy nylon mitten sheaths with thick boiled 
> wool mittens underneath, and those were very warm indeed, but very awkward 
> to ride in, even on a fixed gear where you have to handle only the brake 
> levers.
>
> Varusteleka currently has a number of mil surplus mittens with separate 
> thumb, separate thumb and trigger finger, and separate thumb and first 2 
> fingers. The whole point of mittens is to bundle the fingers together in 
> one compartment for mutual warmth, so each added finger compartment 
> sacrifices warmth.
>
> Does anyone have thoughts on a glove or a mitten or a system that gives 
> the best mix of warmth and dexterity? And perhaps some particular gloves or 
> mittens that fit the bill?
>
> Right now, I've got hugely oversized 5-finger gloves under which I can 
> wear wool knit gloves, under which in turn I can wear silk liners, but this 
> sort of layer system is cumbersome to put on and take off.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -- 
>
> -
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> -
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
> services.
>
>
> -
>
> *When thou didst not, savage,*
>
> *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*
>
> *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes*
>
> *With words that made them known.*
>

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[RBW] Re: Best mitten design for very cold weather

[DavidP]

I've found that barmitts or pogies trap heat and keep the wind off allowing 
me to ride without gloves around freezing temps, and with thinner gloves as 
the temps drop lower. The best solution for warmth and dexterity, but they 
require your shifters, grips, and brake levers to all be in close 
proximity. There are flat bar and drop bar specific versions.

-Dave (in MA, where we skipped winter last year)

On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 4:15:59 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> The fall style thread raises a question about keeping your hands warm in 
> very cold temperatures (for me, very cold means in the teens F). My fingers 
> are very sensitive to the cold. I've bought 2 or 3 pairs of PI Lobster 
> gloves but I've been disappointed in the fit and the warmth. 
>
> I've used Outdoor Research heavy nylon mitten sheaths with thick boiled 
> wool mittens underneath, and those were very warm indeed, but very awkward 
> to ride in, even on a fixed gear where you have to handle only the brake 
> levers.
>
> Varusteleka currently has a number of mil surplus mittens with separate 
> thumb, separate thumb and trigger finger, and separate thumb and first 2 
> fingers. The whole point of mittens is to bundle the fingers together in 
> one compartment for mutual warmth, so each added finger compartment 
> sacrifices warmth.
>
> Does anyone have thoughts on a glove or a mitten or a system that gives 
> the best mix of warmth and dexterity? And perhaps some particular gloves or 
> mittens that fit the bill?
>
> Right now, I've got hugely oversized 5-finger gloves under which I can 
> wear wool knit gloves, under which in turn I can wear silk liners, but this 
> sort of layer system is cumbersome to put on and take off.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -- 
>
> -
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> -
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
> services.
>
>
> -
>
> *When thou didst not, savage,*
>
> *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*
>
> *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes*
>
> *With words that made them known.*
>

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