Re: [RBW] Re: Friction 9 V 10 speed

[Patrick Moore]

OTOH: I recall a practically new Schwinn Collegiate bought at Goodwill that
had a 5 speed square-tooth wide range freewheel shifted by a second-gen
Alvit rear derailleur pulled by a massive, chromed steel lever clamped to
the stem quill; possibly Suntour ratcheting? I don't recall.

At any rate, I was struck at how well it shifted, if you moved the lever
confidently and with authority. The chain would move promptly to the next
cog with a loud "thump" without any rattling afterward and the need to trim
the derailleur. Again, the system seemed to be in new condition.

On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 11:15 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> FWIW, I read a few years ago that using a chain 1 generation more advanced
> than one's cassette improved shifting because the later and narrower chain
> avoids rubbing on adjacent cogs a wee but noticeable bit better than the
> earlier chain. I've been using 11 sp chains on my 10 sp cassettes, and
> while the difference isn't striking, I think it does keep the chain quieter
> while not in any way compromising shifting precision or speed.
>
> In any event, the best friction shifting I've enjoyed is 10 cogs with
> cassettes built using not only 10 sp spacers but real 10 sp cogs, with both
> 10 sp and 11 sp chains. The 9 and 8 sp cassettes I used had proper spacers
> but cogs of all ages and generations including 7s and Uniglides, but even
> those shifted fine -- I never complained, even tho' my 10s shift better.
>
> I said yesterday and someone else also pointed out that a great deal of
> friction shifting precision results from a happy match of shifter with
> derailleur. The 9 speed drivetrain that shifted in friction almost as well
> as the "proper" 10 sp systems was a bastard cassette shifted by a
> Microshift rd pulled by a first-gen Silver BES. Lovely, tho' due to the
> mismatch of the cogs, not quite as lovely as the current Barcon + 7402 + 10
> sp cassette build from proper 10 sp cogs carrying 11 sp chain.
>
> Patrick Moore, who also found that small-barrel Retrofriction dt shifters
> shifted 10 sp Am Classic close ratio cassettes very, very well, back circa
> 2003-2005.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 8:08 AM Hoch in ut  wrote:
>
>> I’ve tried 8,9,10 speeds with friction shifting. 10 speed, nope. 9 was ok
>> But settled on 8-speed for pretty much all friction shift bikes.
>>
>
>

-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
---

Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
services

---

*When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*

*But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*

*I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgs1PvP9vDX_c8PQePNkxmh-M2kFzNLCB9o1yAfxhcsmKw%40mail.gmail.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Friction 9 V 10 speed

[Patrick Moore]

FWIW, I read a few years ago that using a chain 1 generation more advanced
than one's cassette improved shifting because the later and narrower chain
avoids rubbing on adjacent cogs a wee but noticeable bit better than the
earlier chain. I've been using 11 sp chains on my 10 sp cassettes, and
while the difference isn't striking, I think it does keep the chain quieter
while not in any way compromising shifting precision or speed.

In any event, the best friction shifting I've enjoyed is 10 cogs with
cassettes built using not only 10 sp spacers but real 10 sp cogs, with both
10 sp and 11 sp chains. The 9 and 8 sp cassettes I used had proper spacers
but cogs of all ages and generations including 7s and Uniglides, but even
those shifted fine -- I never complained, even tho' my 10s shift better.

I said yesterday and someone else also pointed out that a great deal of
friction shifting precision results from a happy match of shifter with
derailleur. The 9 speed drivetrain that shifted in friction almost as well
as the "proper" 10 sp systems was a bastard cassette shifted by a
Microshift rd pulled by a first-gen Silver BES. Lovely, tho' due to the
mismatch of the cogs, not quite as lovely as the current Barcon + 7402 + 10
sp cassette build from proper 10 sp cogs carrying 11 sp chain.

Patrick Moore, who also found that small-barrel Retrofriction dt shifters
shifted 10 sp Am Classic close ratio cassettes very, very well, back circa
2003-2005.



On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 8:08 AM Hoch in ut  wrote:

> I’ve tried 8,9,10 speeds with friction shifting. 10 speed, nope. 9 was ok
> But settled on 8-speed for pretty much all friction shift bikes.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgtt46H%2Br6SCX7N%2BGH646YnXswyhK0xgVdioQDZetiHtqQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[RBW] Re: Friction 9 V 10 speed

[Steve]

The fact that the "Friction vs Indexed" conversation has persisted for over 
30 years now is testimony that both have their merits.

- My Rivendell with a 3x8 drivetrain and Silver 2 thumb shifters is, of 
course, in friction mode (as was my 1970 ten speed Schwinn and my mid 70's 
Raleigh). I like it that way. 

- My Ritchey with 1x11 and a Microshift thumbie  is usually in indexed 
mode, but I'll switch mid-ride to friction whenever it's a bit out of tune 
and I don't feel like playing with the barrel adjusters. I like it that way.
On Wednesday, April 17, 2024 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-4 Hoch in ut wrote:

> I’ve tried 8,9,10 speeds with friction shifting. 10 speed, nope. 9 was ok 
> But settled on 8-speed for pretty much all friction shift bikes. 
>
> On Monday, April 15, 2024 at 7:27:21 PM UTC-6 ber...@bernardduhon.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I have been friction  shifting my 10 speed campy set up. 11-26 X 44-28 
>> Crank is Sugino. 
>> Was not happy with performance , ghosts shifts up when spinning & down 
>> when stomping the pedals.  
>> Switched up to a 34-11 Shimano
>> Nothing else changed 
>> Seems to be working really well. 
>>  
>> Previous threads and literature suggests that the closer the cogs in 10 & 
>> 11 speeds makes for better friction shifting.
>>  
>> What has been your experience?  
>>  
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/f4f7fd4d-e408-4bf0-9406-8c2520020f23n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Friction 9 V 10 speed

[Hoch in ut]

I’ve tried 8,9,10 speeds with friction shifting. 10 speed, nope. 9 was ok 
But settled on 8-speed for pretty much all friction shift bikes. 

On Monday, April 15, 2024 at 7:27:21 PM UTC-6 ber...@bernardduhon.com wrote:

> I have been friction  shifting my 10 speed campy set up. 11-26 X 44-28 
> Crank is Sugino. 
> Was not happy with performance , ghosts shifts up when spinning & down 
> when stomping the pedals.  
> Switched up to a 34-11 Shimano
> Nothing else changed 
> Seems to be working really well. 
>  
> Previous threads and literature suggests that the closer the cogs in 10 & 
> 11 speeds makes for better friction shifting.
>  
> What has been your experience?  
>  
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/11931080-b81f-408c-b1fc-3cdf839a60ffn%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Friction 9 V 10 speed

[ascpgh]

What makes friction work for me isn't only about holding the derailleur 
position, ie: not having frame flex produce cable pull or the lever slip, 
but rather the tactile ability to quickly and accurately move to the next 
cog without need to trim. If the feedback required to do that is only 
sounds, perhaps the Campy cassette has a greater ability to cope silently 
with a bit of trim needed but is really close to engaging the ramps to the 
next cog (presuming your ghost shifting is to a larger cog). 

On my Rambouillet I have 8-Spd Shimano cassette, Suntour Barcons and a 
fixed RD upper pulley (vs floating) Mavic 840/845 RD. I can feel the need 
for trim through the pedals and at the lever when making the shift. This is 
an easy to shift bike in situations with lots of noise. I found out last 
week riding this bike for the first time in a couple of years on a regular 
group ride that it does not accoustically  telegraph my shifts compared to 
all the hollow/resonant CFRP index only shifting bikes (cable or wireless) 
drive trains. Those seem to cultivate pedaling through shifts, no matter 
how hard you are pedaling and some really audible shifting events. Unsure 
if this is just novice rider behavior or a rationalizing selling point for 
the more experienced rider who thinks easing on the pedals is weakness and 
a source of speed loss. Either way, others listen for shifting as a cue in 
groups, actively or passively and my drive train doesn't give it. 

On my commuter I have 8-Spd Shimano cassette, Shimano bar end shifters and 
a floating upper pulley Shimano XT RD. I cannot as accurately friction 
shift this drive train despite my commuting times providing a pretty quiet 
environment and still do not have as confident friction shifting due to 
less tactile feedback from either the levers or pedals and I mostly leave 
it in indexing mode.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh 

On Monday, April 15, 2024 at 9:27:21 PM UTC-4 ber...@bernardduhon.com wrote:

> I have been friction  shifting my 10 speed campy set up. 11-26 X 44-28 
> Crank is Sugino. 
> Was not happy with performance , ghosts shifts up when spinning & down 
> when stomping the pedals.  
> Switched up to a 34-11 Shimano
> Nothing else changed 
> Seems to be working really well. 
>  
> Previous threads and literature suggests that the closer the cogs in 10 & 
> 11 speeds makes for better friction shifting.
>  
> What has been your experience?  
>  
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/f14f3d5e-acc3-4143-bfa1-e17efa0b2da2n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Friction 9 V 10 speed

[Ted Durant]

On Monday, April 15, 2024 at 8:27:21 PM UTC-5 ber...@bernardduhon.com wrote:

Previous threads and literature suggests that the closer the cogs in 10 & 
11 speeds makes for better friction shifting.
 
What has been your experience? 


Like others, I have had mixed experience. A few observations -
1. On a very springy frame, derailer cables get yanked when you push hard 
on the pedals. I have a Terraferma that's so flexible even I can make it 
swing. I currently have some Cyclone derailers and Silver 1 shifters on 
that bike, with a 9-speed cassette, and there's no way I could tighten the 
shifters enough to keep it from ghost shifting if I do an out-of-the-saddle 
stoplight sprint. Other than that, it's a nice, smooth-shifting experience. 
It can be a little tricky to quiet the rear derailer when a cog is between 
clicks of the shifter. Which leads to ...
2. The reduction in derailer actuation (the ratio of derailer movement to 
cable movement) has been driven by the desire to have more cable movement 
per cog, to improve index shifting. The same effect can be felt with 
friction shifting, especially with shifters that use a micro-ratchet 
mechanism (like Silver). If the derailer requires only a small amount of 
cable movement to shift one cog, I find that the shifter can be between 
clicks, requiring one extra click then a slight shove forward. This gets 
pretty fiddly and would certainly be annoying if you're riding with the 
carbon folks or are oxygen deprived at 13k feet. Which leads to ...
3. The Simplex retrofriction bar-end shifters are absolutely perfect for 
shifting SRAM "exact actuation" (1.30 derailer actuation) derailers over 
10-11 speed cassettes. The 1.30 derailer actuation requires a fair amount 
of cable pull, and the Simplex bar-ends pull a lot of cable. Being 
retrofriction instead of ratchets, you never have the problem of being 
between clicks. Don't go putting Simplex retrofriction downtube levers on 
your bike and think you'll get the same experience, though. The downtube 
levers pull much less cable.

Bottom line ... you have to match your friction levers to your derailer and 
cog count combo if you want a system that works without a lot of fiddling. 
Not that fiddling is bad, necessarily. But you also should feel free to 
decide that indexing is better for your style of riding.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/9abc3aeb-b952-4b41-b434-bd11f87ad199n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Friction 9 V 10 speed

[DavidP]

My road bike is friction 2x10 with Riv Silver 2s on barend pods, Campy 
Veloce FD, Sugino 48/34 crank, Ultegra 11-30 cassette, and Ultegra 10 speed 
chain. Wonderful shifting. After initial setup I had some occasional 
slipping on the right shifter, requiring some snugging of the D-ring bolt 
by hand, but it's been holding fine for a while now.

I have other friction shifted bikes ranging from 7 speeds to 9 speeds in 
back and while they all work well shifting is easier on the bikes with more 
cogs.

-Dave

On Monday, April 15, 2024 at 9:27:21 PM UTC-4 ber...@bernardduhon.com wrote:

> I have been friction  shifting my 10 speed campy set up. 11-26 X 44-28 
> Crank is Sugino. 
> Was not happy with performance , ghosts shifts up when spinning & down 
> when stomping the pedals.  
> Switched up to a 34-11 Shimano
> Nothing else changed 
> Seems to be working really well. 
>  
> Previous threads and literature suggests that the closer the cogs in 10 & 
> 11 speeds makes for better friction shifting.
>  
> What has been your experience?  
>  
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/383b8ca8-2c69-46c6-b7dc-5c6b9f8c56a8n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Friction Shifting Issues with my Old Clem

[DavidP]

I'm using that $13 derailleur on a couple of bikes that see regular 
off-road use (including my Platypus) and it just works. I have some bikes 
with fancier RDs but will continue to use it on future builds where it fits.

The symptom of working fine in all but a couple of cogs always makes me 
think about the hanger alignment (as mentioned by Bill), but it's possible 
the the derailleur may have been damaged too.

Starting with the shifters isn't a bad idea as they will be a notable 
upgrade from the current shifters even if they aren't the cause of your 
problem.

-Dave


On Monday, March 18, 2024 at 11:50:02 PM UTC-4 Vincent Tamer wrote:

> Yes it is a 9. I've wanted to switch to Silver Thumbies so that might just 
> be the next upgrade. Good point about the derailleur too, that's something 
> to consider.
>
> On Thursday, March 14, 2024 at 6:11:32 PM UTC-7 Michael Morrissey wrote:
>
>> Hi Vincent,
>>
>> That Clem is beautiful, but your shifting issue sounds frustrating. Are 
>> you running a 9-speed cassette in the back? I had the indexing Sunrace 
>> thumbie on my Rivendell and performance felt just ok. My vintage Suntour 
>> thumb shifters from 1983 were better, and now I have a Riv silver thumbie 
>> on and it's also better. I suggest you buy one Riv silver thumbie and try 
>> that out. I clearly remember the PDF saying the stock shifters clicked but 
>> did not index. 
>>
>> Also, consider that the Altus rear derailleur is a $13 part. Maybe it's 
>> just not up for your rough rides on the train tracks? I have a silver 
>> thumbie with the SRAM GX 10 speed rear derailleur shifting a 9-speed 
>> cassette, and it works perfectly. I highly recommend it. It has a clutch on 
>> it so you can forget about chain slap and dropped chains. It's available 
>> for nice prices because the trend in mountain bikes is now 12 speeds. (A 
>> matching 10 speed click shifter is also available for cheap, but I haven't 
>> tried it.)
>>
>> I also have a narrow-wide chainring on the front. Perhaps you should 
>> consider one. How often are you using the biggest chainring? For me it's 
>> never (I took it off) because live in a city and commute so I rarely get up 
>> to speed for longer than 4 minutes. Are you regularly cruising above 15 
>> MPH? If not, go lower with your gearing. Wolf-Tooth and Stridsland both 
>> have excellent narrow-wide chainrings that will fit your cranks. Fewer 
>> moving parts is a nice thing for your bike. 
>>
>> I hope this helps. Happy riding. 
>>
>> Michael 
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 13, 2024 at 11:40:52 PM UTC-4 Vincent Tamer wrote:
>>
>>> I have an on going issue with my friction shifting setup on my 2016 
>>> complete Clem.
>>>
>>> I believe this will be my third cassette replacement now. Each time the 
>>> two smallest cogs are damaged/stripped for some reason, so that when I 
>>> pedal there is some crunching & ghost shifting. I cannot pedal with full 
>>> force on the first two gears.
>>>
>>> I’ve had issues with this since day one and I have a feeling it is due 
>>> to the 2016 complete clem’s shifting setup even though I’ve had it adjusted 
>>> and have explained to two different bike technicians.
>>>
>>> The shifter setup is odd, Riv even commented on how it was a little 
>>> strange in the Clem intro Pdf that was floating around for the longest time 
>>> (cannot find it now). I'm hoping someone knows what I'm talking about!
>>>
>>> These suntour shifters are set up in a reverse position and that they 
>>> have some kind of ratcheting mech in them. The clicks don’t always coincide 
>>> with a shift and maybe that has created some bad friction shifting form on 
>>> my part. Outside of that I’m at a loss for why I am having issues with 
>>> stripped cogs. 
>>>
>>> I’m considering switching to an indexed set up even though I don’t want 
>>> to but before I do, does any one have any wisdom they can shed on this 
>>> situation? Thank you!
>>>
>>> Pics are attached, of the whole bike (for fun) and of the shifter. I'll 
>>> grab some shots of the gears as well when I can.[image: 
>>> DSCF7718_sml.jpg][image: shifter.jpg]
>>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/fc77d595-700a-454f-a57f-fa4142bec44cn%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Friction Shifting Issues with my Old Clem

[Vincent Tamer]

Yes it is a 9. I've wanted to switch to Silver Thumbies so that might just 
be the next upgrade. Good point about the derailleur too, that's something 
to consider.

On Thursday, March 14, 2024 at 6:11:32 PM UTC-7 Michael Morrissey wrote:

> Hi Vincent,
>
> That Clem is beautiful, but your shifting issue sounds frustrating. Are 
> you running a 9-speed cassette in the back? I had the indexing Sunrace 
> thumbie on my Rivendell and performance felt just ok. My vintage Suntour 
> thumb shifters from 1983 were better, and now I have a Riv silver thumbie 
> on and it's also better. I suggest you buy one Riv silver thumbie and try 
> that out. I clearly remember the PDF saying the stock shifters clicked but 
> did not index. 
>
> Also, consider that the Altus rear derailleur is a $13 part. Maybe it's 
> just not up for your rough rides on the train tracks? I have a silver 
> thumbie with the SRAM GX 10 speed rear derailleur shifting a 9-speed 
> cassette, and it works perfectly. I highly recommend it. It has a clutch on 
> it so you can forget about chain slap and dropped chains. It's available 
> for nice prices because the trend in mountain bikes is now 12 speeds. (A 
> matching 10 speed click shifter is also available for cheap, but I haven't 
> tried it.)
>
> I also have a narrow-wide chainring on the front. Perhaps you should 
> consider one. How often are you using the biggest chainring? For me it's 
> never (I took it off) because live in a city and commute so I rarely get up 
> to speed for longer than 4 minutes. Are you regularly cruising above 15 
> MPH? If not, go lower with your gearing. Wolf-Tooth and Stridsland both 
> have excellent narrow-wide chainrings that will fit your cranks. Fewer 
> moving parts is a nice thing for your bike. 
>
> I hope this helps. Happy riding. 
>
> Michael 
>
>
> On Wednesday, March 13, 2024 at 11:40:52 PM UTC-4 Vincent Tamer wrote:
>
>> I have an on going issue with my friction shifting setup on my 2016 
>> complete Clem.
>>
>> I believe this will be my third cassette replacement now. Each time the 
>> two smallest cogs are damaged/stripped for some reason, so that when I 
>> pedal there is some crunching & ghost shifting. I cannot pedal with full 
>> force on the first two gears.
>>
>> I’ve had issues with this since day one and I have a feeling it is due to 
>> the 2016 complete clem’s shifting setup even though I’ve had it adjusted 
>> and have explained to two different bike technicians.
>>
>> The shifter setup is odd, Riv even commented on how it was a little 
>> strange in the Clem intro Pdf that was floating around for the longest time 
>> (cannot find it now). I'm hoping someone knows what I'm talking about!
>>
>> These suntour shifters are set up in a reverse position and that they 
>> have some kind of ratcheting mech in them. The clicks don’t always coincide 
>> with a shift and maybe that has created some bad friction shifting form on 
>> my part. Outside of that I’m at a loss for why I am having issues with 
>> stripped cogs. 
>>
>> I’m considering switching to an indexed set up even though I don’t want 
>> to but before I do, does any one have any wisdom they can shed on this 
>> situation? Thank you!
>>
>> Pics are attached, of the whole bike (for fun) and of the shifter. I'll 
>> grab some shots of the gears as well when I can.[image: 
>> DSCF7718_sml.jpg][image: 
>> shifter.jpg]
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/8aa2b460-196c-450a-901b-4be036c69390n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Friction Shifting Issues with my Old Clem

[Vincent Tamer]

Thank you all for the advice!

On Friday, March 15, 2024 at 5:54:40 AM UTC-7 steve...@gmail.com wrote:

> Vincent, Garth's comments regarding cross chaining sure do seem like a 
> likely explanation for the accelerated wear on the outer two cogs.  Looking 
> at your picture of the bike, it appears the cranks are mounted on a fairly 
> narrow bottom bracket spindle. If the spindle is narrow enough to move your 
> chain line inboard - further away from the smaller cogs on the rear end - 
> that would likely accelerate wear on those cogs. Frequent cross chaining 
> from the inner chain ring to those smaller cogs would amplify the effect. 
> Might be worth your trouble to check the chain line as you try to solve the 
> riddle. 
>
> Steve
>
>
> On Thursday, March 14, 2024 at 9:11:32 PM UTC-4 Michael Morrissey wrote:
>
>> Hi Vincent,
>>
>> That Clem is beautiful, but your shifting issue sounds frustrating. Are 
>> you running a 9-speed cassette in the back? I had the indexing Sunrace 
>> thumbie on my Rivendell and performance felt just ok. My vintage Suntour 
>> thumb shifters from 1983 were better, and now I have a Riv silver thumbie 
>> on and it's also better. I suggest you buy one Riv silver thumbie and try 
>> that out. I clearly remember the PDF saying the stock shifters clicked but 
>> did not index. 
>>
>> Also, consider that the Altus rear derailleur is a $13 part. Maybe it's 
>> just not up for your rough rides on the train tracks? I have a silver 
>> thumbie with the SRAM GX 10 speed rear derailleur shifting a 9-speed 
>> cassette, and it works perfectly. I highly recommend it. It has a clutch on 
>> it so you can forget about chain slap and dropped chains. It's available 
>> for nice prices because the trend in mountain bikes is now 12 speeds. (A 
>> matching 10 speed click shifter is also available for cheap, but I haven't 
>> tried it.)
>>
>> I also have a narrow-wide chainring on the front. Perhaps you should 
>> consider one. How often are you using the biggest chainring? For me it's 
>> never (I took it off) because live in a city and commute so I rarely get up 
>> to speed for longer than 4 minutes. Are you regularly cruising above 15 
>> MPH? If not, go lower with your gearing. Wolf-Tooth and Stridsland both 
>> have excellent narrow-wide chainrings that will fit your cranks. Fewer 
>> moving parts is a nice thing for your bike. 
>>
>> I hope this helps. Happy riding. 
>>
>> Michael 
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 13, 2024 at 11:40:52 PM UTC-4 Vincent Tamer wrote:
>>
>>> I have an on going issue with my friction shifting setup on my 2016 
>>> complete Clem.
>>>
>>> I believe this will be my third cassette replacement now. Each time the 
>>> two smallest cogs are damaged/stripped for some reason, so that when I 
>>> pedal there is some crunching & ghost shifting. I cannot pedal with full 
>>> force on the first two gears.
>>>
>>> I’ve had issues with this since day one and I have a feeling it is due 
>>> to the 2016 complete clem’s shifting setup even though I’ve had it adjusted 
>>> and have explained to two different bike technicians.
>>>
>>> The shifter setup is odd, Riv even commented on how it was a little 
>>> strange in the Clem intro Pdf that was floating around for the longest time 
>>> (cannot find it now). I'm hoping someone knows what I'm talking about!
>>>
>>> These suntour shifters are set up in a reverse position and that they 
>>> have some kind of ratcheting mech in them. The clicks don’t always coincide 
>>> with a shift and maybe that has created some bad friction shifting form on 
>>> my part. Outside of that I’m at a loss for why I am having issues with 
>>> stripped cogs. 
>>>
>>> I’m considering switching to an indexed set up even though I don’t want 
>>> to but before I do, does any one have any wisdom they can shed on this 
>>> situation? Thank you!
>>>
>>> Pics are attached, of the whole bike (for fun) and of the shifter. I'll 
>>> grab some shots of the gears as well when I can.[image: 
>>> DSCF7718_sml.jpg][image: shifter.jpg]
>>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/b161b20a-15d5-48ea-a485-05f1828e569fn%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Friction Shifting Issues with my Old Clem

[Steve]

Vincent, Garth's comments regarding cross chaining sure do seem like a 
likely explanation for the accelerated wear on the outer two cogs.  Looking 
at your picture of the bike, it appears the cranks are mounted on a fairly 
narrow bottom bracket spindle. If the spindle is narrow enough to move your 
chain line inboard - further away from the smaller cogs on the rear end - 
that would likely accelerate wear on those cogs. Frequent cross chaining 
from the inner chain ring to those smaller cogs would amplify the effect. 
Might be worth your trouble to check the chain line as you try to solve the 
riddle. 

Steve


On Thursday, March 14, 2024 at 9:11:32 PM UTC-4 Michael Morrissey wrote:

> Hi Vincent,
>
> That Clem is beautiful, but your shifting issue sounds frustrating. Are 
> you running a 9-speed cassette in the back? I had the indexing Sunrace 
> thumbie on my Rivendell and performance felt just ok. My vintage Suntour 
> thumb shifters from 1983 were better, and now I have a Riv silver thumbie 
> on and it's also better. I suggest you buy one Riv silver thumbie and try 
> that out. I clearly remember the PDF saying the stock shifters clicked but 
> did not index. 
>
> Also, consider that the Altus rear derailleur is a $13 part. Maybe it's 
> just not up for your rough rides on the train tracks? I have a silver 
> thumbie with the SRAM GX 10 speed rear derailleur shifting a 9-speed 
> cassette, and it works perfectly. I highly recommend it. It has a clutch on 
> it so you can forget about chain slap and dropped chains. It's available 
> for nice prices because the trend in mountain bikes is now 12 speeds. (A 
> matching 10 speed click shifter is also available for cheap, but I haven't 
> tried it.)
>
> I also have a narrow-wide chainring on the front. Perhaps you should 
> consider one. How often are you using the biggest chainring? For me it's 
> never (I took it off) because live in a city and commute so I rarely get up 
> to speed for longer than 4 minutes. Are you regularly cruising above 15 
> MPH? If not, go lower with your gearing. Wolf-Tooth and Stridsland both 
> have excellent narrow-wide chainrings that will fit your cranks. Fewer 
> moving parts is a nice thing for your bike. 
>
> I hope this helps. Happy riding. 
>
> Michael 
>
>
> On Wednesday, March 13, 2024 at 11:40:52 PM UTC-4 Vincent Tamer wrote:
>
>> I have an on going issue with my friction shifting setup on my 2016 
>> complete Clem.
>>
>> I believe this will be my third cassette replacement now. Each time the 
>> two smallest cogs are damaged/stripped for some reason, so that when I 
>> pedal there is some crunching & ghost shifting. I cannot pedal with full 
>> force on the first two gears.
>>
>> I’ve had issues with this since day one and I have a feeling it is due to 
>> the 2016 complete clem’s shifting setup even though I’ve had it adjusted 
>> and have explained to two different bike technicians.
>>
>> The shifter setup is odd, Riv even commented on how it was a little 
>> strange in the Clem intro Pdf that was floating around for the longest time 
>> (cannot find it now). I'm hoping someone knows what I'm talking about!
>>
>> These suntour shifters are set up in a reverse position and that they 
>> have some kind of ratcheting mech in them. The clicks don’t always coincide 
>> with a shift and maybe that has created some bad friction shifting form on 
>> my part. Outside of that I’m at a loss for why I am having issues with 
>> stripped cogs. 
>>
>> I’m considering switching to an indexed set up even though I don’t want 
>> to but before I do, does any one have any wisdom they can shed on this 
>> situation? Thank you!
>>
>> Pics are attached, of the whole bike (for fun) and of the shifter. I'll 
>> grab some shots of the gears as well when I can.[image: 
>> DSCF7718_sml.jpg][image: 
>> shifter.jpg]
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a61c8cda-6448-4000-b012-170ce846e011n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Friction Shifting Issues with my Old Clem

[Michael Morrissey]

Hi Vincent,

That Clem is beautiful, but your shifting issue sounds frustrating. Are you 
running a 9-speed cassette in the back? I had the indexing Sunrace thumbie 
on my Rivendell and performance felt just ok. My vintage Suntour thumb 
shifters from 1983 were better, and now I have a Riv silver thumbie on and 
it's also better. I suggest you buy one Riv silver thumbie and try that 
out. I clearly remember the PDF saying the stock shifters clicked but did 
not index. 

Also, consider that the Altus rear derailleur is a $13 part. Maybe it's 
just not up for your rough rides on the train tracks? I have a silver 
thumbie with the SRAM GX 10 speed rear derailleur shifting a 9-speed 
cassette, and it works perfectly. I highly recommend it. It has a clutch on 
it so you can forget about chain slap and dropped chains. It's available 
for nice prices because the trend in mountain bikes is now 12 speeds. (A 
matching 10 speed click shifter is also available for cheap, but I haven't 
tried it.)

I also have a narrow-wide chainring on the front. Perhaps you should 
consider one. How often are you using the biggest chainring? For me it's 
never (I took it off) because live in a city and commute so I rarely get up 
to speed for longer than 4 minutes. Are you regularly cruising above 15 
MPH? If not, go lower with your gearing. Wolf-Tooth and Stridsland both 
have excellent narrow-wide chainrings that will fit your cranks. Fewer 
moving parts is a nice thing for your bike. 

I hope this helps. Happy riding. 

Michael 


On Wednesday, March 13, 2024 at 11:40:52 PM UTC-4 Vincent Tamer wrote:

> I have an on going issue with my friction shifting setup on my 2016 
> complete Clem.
>
> I believe this will be my third cassette replacement now. Each time the 
> two smallest cogs are damaged/stripped for some reason, so that when I 
> pedal there is some crunching & ghost shifting. I cannot pedal with full 
> force on the first two gears.
>
> I’ve had issues with this since day one and I have a feeling it is due to 
> the 2016 complete clem’s shifting setup even though I’ve had it adjusted 
> and have explained to two different bike technicians.
>
> The shifter setup is odd, Riv even commented on how it was a little 
> strange in the Clem intro Pdf that was floating around for the longest time 
> (cannot find it now). I'm hoping someone knows what I'm talking about!
>
> These suntour shifters are set up in a reverse position and that they have 
> some kind of ratcheting mech in them. The clicks don’t always coincide with 
> a shift and maybe that has created some bad friction shifting form on my 
> part. Outside of that I’m at a loss for why I am having issues with 
> stripped cogs. 
>
> I’m considering switching to an indexed set up even though I don’t want to 
> but before I do, does any one have any wisdom they can shed on this 
> situation? Thank you!
>
> Pics are attached, of the whole bike (for fun) and of the shifter. I'll 
> grab some shots of the gears as well when I can.[image: 
> DSCF7718_sml.jpg][image: 
> shifter.jpg]
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/aba80567-24bb-48e7-9800-29d09d17d0e1n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Friction Shifting Issues with my Old Clem

[Wesley]

Sounds like an issue my wife had about a year ago. We tried a lot of random 
ideas, like snugging up the cassette lockring (on the theory that the cogs 
were loose and wobbling a bit). In the end, a new chain made the shifting 
work perfectly again. Good luck.
-Wes

On Wednesday, March 13, 2024 at 8:40:52 PM UTC-7 Vincent Tamer wrote:

> I have an on going issue with my friction shifting setup on my 2016 
> complete Clem.
>
> I believe this will be my third cassette replacement now. Each time the 
> two smallest cogs are damaged/stripped for some reason, so that when I 
> pedal there is some crunching & ghost shifting. I cannot pedal with full 
> force on the first two gears.
>
> I’ve had issues with this since day one and I have a feeling it is due to 
> the 2016 complete clem’s shifting setup even though I’ve had it adjusted 
> and have explained to two different bike technicians.
>
> The shifter setup is odd, Riv even commented on how it was a little 
> strange in the Clem intro Pdf that was floating around for the longest time 
> (cannot find it now). I'm hoping someone knows what I'm talking about!
>
> These suntour shifters are set up in a reverse position and that they have 
> some kind of ratcheting mech in them. The clicks don’t always coincide with 
> a shift and maybe that has created some bad friction shifting form on my 
> part. Outside of that I’m at a loss for why I am having issues with 
> stripped cogs. 
>
> I’m considering switching to an indexed set up even though I don’t want to 
> but before I do, does any one have any wisdom they can shed on this 
> situation? Thank you!
>
> Pics are attached, of the whole bike (for fun) and of the shifter. I'll 
> grab some shots of the gears as well when I can.[image: 
> DSCF7718_sml.jpg][image: 
> shifter.jpg]
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/5e99bf7b-9d23-4d8a-b207-bef24257306fn%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Friction Shifting Issues with my Old Clem

[Bill Schairer]

I'd have someone check the derailleur hanger adjustment.

How many miles are you getting on each cassette?  How about chains?  
Smallest cogs will wear the fastest.  If you are riding a lot on the big 
ring and the smallest cogs, maybe get a bigger big ring that will put your 
usual pedaling in the middle of the cassette?

Bill S
San Diego

On Thursday, March 14, 2024 at 9:34:05 AM UTC-7 Vincent Tamer wrote:

> Thank you guys. The suntour shifters don't bug me so much as I may have 
> made it out in the initial post. I was just not sure if they were causing 
> this wear on the rear cassette or not. I only have a double crank and 
> rarely cross chain. Usually I'm on the largest toothed chainring on the 
> front which aligns with the smaller two on the rear. However there may have 
> been an instance recently where I cross chained that did the damage. I'll 
> have to take a closer look but this info helps. Thanks!
>
> On Thursday, March 14, 2024 at 1:41:11 AM UTC-7 Garth wrote:
>
>> Vinvent, the Sunrace shifters ratcheting is there only as part of the 
>> tension holding friction mechanism. It was in use well before indexed came 
>> to be in use. That indexed shifters happen to click once per shift change 
>> in unrelated to the ratcheting clicks of the friction variety. I've not 
>> used those shifters in particular, I've only used Sun Tour Power ratchets 
>> and other pure friction shifters. My best "advice" for those Sunrace 
>> shifters is to forget about the clicks altogther as *they are not 
>> designed for one click per gear shift.* Just adjust the lever by feel 
>> and sound of the cogs. If you've never used friction shifters before this I 
>> can see how the clicking may appear confusing if mistaking the friction 
>> ratcheting sound with indexing clicks, but they're two distinctly different 
>> mechanisms. Some readers here have ended up replacing those particular 
>> Sunrace shifters with a more normal ratcheting friction shifters on the 
>> outside, like the Riv Silver or Microshift or vintage Sun Tour. 
>>
>> The grinding and wear of the two smallest cogs appears from varying 
>> angles of the chain as you use a given ring with a given cog. It's called 
>> "cross-chaining". For example, riding in the smallest ring of triple crank 
>> like yours and the smallest cogs of the cassette is asking the chain to 
>> flex laterally to angles past their limits of efficiency. Even the middle 
>> ring and smallest two cogs has a fair amount of friction from the angles, 
>> depending on the chainline(how far the center-rings are from the center of 
>> the seat tube). Hence, you'll hear and feel what you describe and will wear 
>> the cogs down faster than usual if consistently ridden that way. 
>>
>> Here's cross-chaing explained : 
>> https://wickwerks.com/support/crosschaining/
>> On Wednesday, March 13, 2024 at 11:40:52 PM UTC-4 Vincent Tamer wrote:
>>
>>> I have an on going issue with my friction shifting setup on my 2016 
>>> complete Clem.
>>>
>>> I believe this will be my third cassette replacement now. Each time the 
>>> two smallest cogs are damaged/stripped for some reason, so that when I 
>>> pedal there is some crunching & ghost shifting. I cannot pedal with full 
>>> force on the first two gears.
>>>
>>> I’ve had issues with this since day one and I have a feeling it is due 
>>> to the 2016 complete clem’s shifting setup even though I’ve had it adjusted 
>>> and have explained to two different bike technicians.
>>>
>>> The shifter setup is odd, Riv even commented on how it was a little 
>>> strange in the Clem intro Pdf that was floating around for the longest time 
>>> (cannot find it now). I'm hoping someone knows what I'm talking about!
>>>
>>> These suntour shifters are set up in a reverse position and that they 
>>> have some kind of ratcheting mech in them. The clicks don’t always coincide 
>>> with a shift and maybe that has created some bad friction shifting form on 
>>> my part. Outside of that I’m at a loss for why I am having issues with 
>>> stripped cogs. 
>>>
>>> I’m considering switching to an indexed set up even though I don’t want 
>>> to but before I do, does any one have any wisdom they can shed on this 
>>> situation? Thank you!
>>>
>>> Pics are attached, of the whole bike (for fun) and of the shifter. I'll 
>>> grab some shots of the gears as well when I can.[image: 
>>> DSCF7718_sml.jpg][image: shifter.jpg]
>>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/dc7f616b-7c46-44bf-b4ed-a2e23eb88b38n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Friction Shifting Issues with my Old Clem

[Vincent Tamer]

Thank you guys. The suntour shifters don't bug me so much as I may have 
made it out in the initial post. I was just not sure if they were causing 
this wear on the rear cassette or not. I only have a double crank and 
rarely cross chain. Usually I'm on the largest toothed chainring on the 
front which aligns with the smaller two on the rear. However there may have 
been an instance recently where I cross chained that did the damage. I'll 
have to take a closer look but this info helps. Thanks!

On Thursday, March 14, 2024 at 1:41:11 AM UTC-7 Garth wrote:

> Vinvent, the Sunrace shifters ratcheting is there only as part of the 
> tension holding friction mechanism. It was in use well before indexed came 
> to be in use. That indexed shifters happen to click once per shift change 
> in unrelated to the ratcheting clicks of the friction variety. I've not 
> used those shifters in particular, I've only used Sun Tour Power ratchets 
> and other pure friction shifters. My best "advice" for those Sunrace 
> shifters is to forget about the clicks altogther as *they are not 
> designed for one click per gear shift.* Just adjust the lever by feel and 
> sound of the cogs. If you've never used friction shifters before this I can 
> see how the clicking may appear confusing if mistaking the friction 
> ratcheting sound with indexing clicks, but they're two distinctly different 
> mechanisms. Some readers here have ended up replacing those particular 
> Sunrace shifters with a more normal ratcheting friction shifters on the 
> outside, like the Riv Silver or Microshift or vintage Sun Tour. 
>
> The grinding and wear of the two smallest cogs appears from varying angles 
> of the chain as you use a given ring with a given cog. It's called 
> "cross-chaining". For example, riding in the smallest ring of triple crank 
> like yours and the smallest cogs of the cassette is asking the chain to 
> flex laterally to angles past their limits of efficiency. Even the middle 
> ring and smallest two cogs has a fair amount of friction from the angles, 
> depending on the chainline(how far the center-rings are from the center of 
> the seat tube). Hence, you'll hear and feel what you describe and will wear 
> the cogs down faster than usual if consistently ridden that way. 
>
> Here's cross-chaing explained : 
> https://wickwerks.com/support/crosschaining/
> On Wednesday, March 13, 2024 at 11:40:52 PM UTC-4 Vincent Tamer wrote:
>
>> I have an on going issue with my friction shifting setup on my 2016 
>> complete Clem.
>>
>> I believe this will be my third cassette replacement now. Each time the 
>> two smallest cogs are damaged/stripped for some reason, so that when I 
>> pedal there is some crunching & ghost shifting. I cannot pedal with full 
>> force on the first two gears.
>>
>> I’ve had issues with this since day one and I have a feeling it is due to 
>> the 2016 complete clem’s shifting setup even though I’ve had it adjusted 
>> and have explained to two different bike technicians.
>>
>> The shifter setup is odd, Riv even commented on how it was a little 
>> strange in the Clem intro Pdf that was floating around for the longest time 
>> (cannot find it now). I'm hoping someone knows what I'm talking about!
>>
>> These suntour shifters are set up in a reverse position and that they 
>> have some kind of ratcheting mech in them. The clicks don’t always coincide 
>> with a shift and maybe that has created some bad friction shifting form on 
>> my part. Outside of that I’m at a loss for why I am having issues with 
>> stripped cogs. 
>>
>> I’m considering switching to an indexed set up even though I don’t want 
>> to but before I do, does any one have any wisdom they can shed on this 
>> situation? Thank you!
>>
>> Pics are attached, of the whole bike (for fun) and of the shifter. I'll 
>> grab some shots of the gears as well when I can.[image: 
>> DSCF7718_sml.jpg][image: 
>> shifter.jpg]
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/40d1ab5f-38cb-43fe-aef2-91254b548ca7n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Friction Shifting Issues with my Old Clem

[Johnny Alien]

I'm not sure I would agree that they "force indexing". I've used them on my 
Clem for awhile now and while its weird it works with no issues. At least I 
personally have not had issues and it sounds like Grant has been issue free 
with more miles than me.

I do agree that Riv's details do make it more confusing then it needs to 
be. Ignore the clicks would be a much better description. My tech even kept 
telling me how weird the index shifters were. I was like...they are 
friction not index and he was like...no those index. :)

On Thursday, March 14, 2024 at 5:05:28 AM UTC-4 Garth wrote:

> Additionally, if you're riding in the small/inner ring and smallest 2-3 
> cogs, don't !  Even the middle isn't optimal with a 11t/12t/13t, but 
> without an outer ring, you have no other option. 
>
> Yeah I do remember when those Sunrace came out the confusing description 
> of them, and it's still clear as mud on the Riv website. If I could feel 
> the mechanism I'd understand where they're coming from, but I'm not buying 
> any to find out ! They could have just said "the clicks are not be 
> associated with a given gear shift". Or was it the shifters even had 
> indentations in the mechanism, making the necessary minute adjustments 
> frustrating ? (for users like Joe or others who have used them ). 
>
> On Thursday, March 14, 2024 at 4:42:10 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Those SunRace shifters force indexing that doesn't line up with all the 
>> cogs. Technically you can trim them to work as a friction shifter but it'll 
>> drive you crazy, you need Silver thumbies. 
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 13, 2024 at 8:40:52 PM UTC-7 Vincent Tamer wrote:
>>
>>> I have an on going issue with my friction shifting setup on my 2016 
>>> complete Clem.
>>>
>>> I believe this will be my third cassette replacement now. Each time the 
>>> two smallest cogs are damaged/stripped for some reason, so that when I 
>>> pedal there is some crunching & ghost shifting. I cannot pedal with full 
>>> force on the first two gears.
>>>
>>> I’ve had issues with this since day one and I have a feeling it is due 
>>> to the 2016 complete clem’s shifting setup even though I’ve had it adjusted 
>>> and have explained to two different bike technicians.
>>>
>>> The shifter setup is odd, Riv even commented on how it was a little 
>>> strange in the Clem intro Pdf that was floating around for the longest time 
>>> (cannot find it now). I'm hoping someone knows what I'm talking about!
>>>
>>> These suntour shifters are set up in a reverse position and that they 
>>> have some kind of ratcheting mech in them. The clicks don’t always coincide 
>>> with a shift and maybe that has created some bad friction shifting form on 
>>> my part. Outside of that I’m at a loss for why I am having issues with 
>>> stripped cogs. 
>>>
>>> I’m considering switching to an indexed set up even though I don’t want 
>>> to but before I do, does any one have any wisdom they can shed on this 
>>> situation? Thank you!
>>>
>>> Pics are attached, of the whole bike (for fun) and of the shifter. I'll 
>>> grab some shots of the gears as well when I can.[image: 
>>> DSCF7718_sml.jpg][image: shifter.jpg]
>>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/1fbc6c8c-450d-4101-84fa-b67f2ce3aec9n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Friction Shifting Issues with my Old Clem

[Garth]

Additionally, if you're riding in the small/inner ring and smallest 2-3 
cogs, don't !  Even the middle isn't optimal with a 11t/12t/13t, but 
without an outer ring, you have no other option. 

Yeah I do remember when those Sunrace came out the confusing description of 
them, and it's still clear as mud on the Riv website. If I could feel the 
mechanism I'd understand where they're coming from, but I'm not buying any 
to find out ! They could have just said "the clicks are not be associated 
with a given gear shift". Or was it the shifters even had indentations in 
the mechanism, making the necessary minute adjustments frustrating ? (for 
users like Joe or others who have used them ). 

On Thursday, March 14, 2024 at 4:42:10 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Those SunRace shifters force indexing that doesn't line up with all the 
> cogs. Technically you can trim them to work as a friction shifter but it'll 
> drive you crazy, you need Silver thumbies. 
>
> On Wednesday, March 13, 2024 at 8:40:52 PM UTC-7 Vincent Tamer wrote:
>
>> I have an on going issue with my friction shifting setup on my 2016 
>> complete Clem.
>>
>> I believe this will be my third cassette replacement now. Each time the 
>> two smallest cogs are damaged/stripped for some reason, so that when I 
>> pedal there is some crunching & ghost shifting. I cannot pedal with full 
>> force on the first two gears.
>>
>> I’ve had issues with this since day one and I have a feeling it is due to 
>> the 2016 complete clem’s shifting setup even though I’ve had it adjusted 
>> and have explained to two different bike technicians.
>>
>> The shifter setup is odd, Riv even commented on how it was a little 
>> strange in the Clem intro Pdf that was floating around for the longest time 
>> (cannot find it now). I'm hoping someone knows what I'm talking about!
>>
>> These suntour shifters are set up in a reverse position and that they 
>> have some kind of ratcheting mech in them. The clicks don’t always coincide 
>> with a shift and maybe that has created some bad friction shifting form on 
>> my part. Outside of that I’m at a loss for why I am having issues with 
>> stripped cogs. 
>>
>> I’m considering switching to an indexed set up even though I don’t want 
>> to but before I do, does any one have any wisdom they can shed on this 
>> situation? Thank you!
>>
>> Pics are attached, of the whole bike (for fun) and of the shifter. I'll 
>> grab some shots of the gears as well when I can.[image: 
>> DSCF7718_sml.jpg][image: 
>> shifter.jpg]
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/c7eff0af-1850-4d84-ae07-6b6c09a4c4aen%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Friction Shifting Issues with my Old Clem

[Joe Bernard]

Those SunRace shifters force indexing that doesn't line up with all the 
cogs. Technically you can trim them to work as a friction shifter but it'll 
drive you crazy, you need Silver thumbies. 

On Wednesday, March 13, 2024 at 8:40:52 PM UTC-7 Vincent Tamer wrote:

> I have an on going issue with my friction shifting setup on my 2016 
> complete Clem.
>
> I believe this will be my third cassette replacement now. Each time the 
> two smallest cogs are damaged/stripped for some reason, so that when I 
> pedal there is some crunching & ghost shifting. I cannot pedal with full 
> force on the first two gears.
>
> I’ve had issues with this since day one and I have a feeling it is due to 
> the 2016 complete clem’s shifting setup even though I’ve had it adjusted 
> and have explained to two different bike technicians.
>
> The shifter setup is odd, Riv even commented on how it was a little 
> strange in the Clem intro Pdf that was floating around for the longest time 
> (cannot find it now). I'm hoping someone knows what I'm talking about!
>
> These suntour shifters are set up in a reverse position and that they have 
> some kind of ratcheting mech in them. The clicks don’t always coincide with 
> a shift and maybe that has created some bad friction shifting form on my 
> part. Outside of that I’m at a loss for why I am having issues with 
> stripped cogs. 
>
> I’m considering switching to an indexed set up even though I don’t want to 
> but before I do, does any one have any wisdom they can shed on this 
> situation? Thank you!
>
> Pics are attached, of the whole bike (for fun) and of the shifter. I'll 
> grab some shots of the gears as well when I can.[image: 
> DSCF7718_sml.jpg][image: 
> shifter.jpg]
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/74794abc-ab51-47ff-9164-4bb01d646288n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Friction Shifting Issues with my Old Clem

[Garth]

Vinvent, the Sunrace shifters ratcheting is there only as part of the 
tension holding friction mechanism. It was in use well before indexed came 
to be in use. That indexed shifters happen to click once per shift change 
in unrelated to the ratcheting clicks of the friction variety. I've not 
used those shifters in particular, I've only used Sun Tour Power ratchets 
and other pure friction shifters. My best "advice" for those Sunrace 
shifters is to forget about the clicks altogther as *they are not designed 
for one click per gear shift.* Just adjust the lever by feel and sound of 
the cogs. If you've never used friction shifters before this I can see how 
the clicking may appear confusing if mistaking the friction ratcheting 
sound with indexing clicks, but they're two distinctly different 
mechanisms. Some readers here have ended up replacing those particular 
Sunrace shifters with a more normal ratcheting friction shifters on the 
outside, like the Riv Silver or Microshift or vintage Sun Tour. 

The grinding and wear of the two smallest cogs appears from varying angles 
of the chain as you use a given ring with a given cog. It's called 
"cross-chaining". For example, riding in the smallest ring of triple crank 
like yours and the smallest cogs of the cassette is asking the chain to 
flex laterally to angles past their limits of efficiency. Even the middle 
ring and smallest two cogs has a fair amount of friction from the angles, 
depending on the chainline(how far the center-rings are from the center of 
the seat tube). Hence, you'll hear and feel what you describe and will wear 
the cogs down faster than usual if consistently ridden that way. 

Here's cross-chaing explained : https://wickwerks.com/support/crosschaining/
On Wednesday, March 13, 2024 at 11:40:52 PM UTC-4 Vincent Tamer wrote:

> I have an on going issue with my friction shifting setup on my 2016 
> complete Clem.
>
> I believe this will be my third cassette replacement now. Each time the 
> two smallest cogs are damaged/stripped for some reason, so that when I 
> pedal there is some crunching & ghost shifting. I cannot pedal with full 
> force on the first two gears.
>
> I’ve had issues with this since day one and I have a feeling it is due to 
> the 2016 complete clem’s shifting setup even though I’ve had it adjusted 
> and have explained to two different bike technicians.
>
> The shifter setup is odd, Riv even commented on how it was a little 
> strange in the Clem intro Pdf that was floating around for the longest time 
> (cannot find it now). I'm hoping someone knows what I'm talking about!
>
> These suntour shifters are set up in a reverse position and that they have 
> some kind of ratcheting mech in them. The clicks don’t always coincide with 
> a shift and maybe that has created some bad friction shifting form on my 
> part. Outside of that I’m at a loss for why I am having issues with 
> stripped cogs. 
>
> I’m considering switching to an indexed set up even though I don’t want to 
> but before I do, does any one have any wisdom they can shed on this 
> situation? Thank you!
>
> Pics are attached, of the whole bike (for fun) and of the shifter. I'll 
> grab some shots of the gears as well when I can.[image: 
> DSCF7718_sml.jpg][image: 
> shifter.jpg]
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/9f3d3318-457f-4ab6-b5be-12d17276948fn%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Friction 1x11

[DB]

I've been using this same set up and it's totally fine.  

On Wednesday, January 13, 2021 at 9:08:35 AM UTC-8 Adam Bowen wrote:

> I am currently running a friction 12speed set up with a microshift bar end 
> and GX Eagle derailer/cassette. I have been pleased with how well it works
>
> On Tuesday, January 12, 2021 at 11:28:54 AM UTC-5 Matthew P wrote:
>
>> Thank you Sam for this post. This is currently on my mind.
>> My friends insisted on a clutch derailer, and then, better than 
>> insisting, a friend gave me one (I reciprocated to make it a trade :)
>>
>> So I've been internally himming and hawing over what shifter to run on my 
>> Shimano 11 speed clutch derailer and Shimano 11-42, 11 speed casette.
>> One thing that came to mind is I'd like to have friction shifting an 
>> option if/when, for some reason, I can't correctly tune the indexed 
>> shifting with a barrel adjuster etc.
>> I think the barcon/bar-end option to switch between indexed and friction 
>> shifting is a really nice option and back-up plan.
>> I am also a little resistant to mountain bike trigger shifters, not for 
>> mechanical reasons, just...personal prefernce/bias.
>>
>> So I'm thinking I'll go with the Microshift 11 spd thumb shifter.
>> It looks like its the SL-M11 I want:
>> https://www.microshift.com/en/product/sl-m11/
>> I wish it had the bolt with the folding loop on top like the Shimanos to 
>> make it easier to switch between friction and indexed.
>>
>> I think I'm decided now, thanks, but also happy to hear more.
>>
>> -Matthew
>> San Diego, CA
>>
>> On Monday, January 11, 2021 at 9:24:00 PM UTC-8 Adam in Indiana wrote:
>>
>>> I’ve been using 1x11 for a while, in both friction and indexed.  I use 
>>> an appropriate Microshift lever with a Shimano SLX clutch derailleur, and 
>>> it works flawlessly.  I started it out as a bar-end, but now have it on a 
>>> hydraulic Gevenalle setup.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 1:24:37 AM UTC-5 Sam Perez wrote:
>>>
 Any one have any experience with a friction 1x set up ? I'm really 
 curious, but was discouraged bc I've herd anything above an 8s suffers on 
 friction mode, is there a shifters that would be adequate and is the 
 shifting more fussy ?

 Thanks

>>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a1ed4106-0c4b-4b6e-854a-b97b645964f1n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Friction 1x11

[Daniel MacPherson]

Good to hear. I'm currently setting up a bike with your same set-up. I've 
been rocking 10 speed friction for a year, so why not try 12 speed? 

On Wednesday, January 13, 2021 at 9:08:35 AM UTC-8 Adam Bowen wrote:

> I am currently running a friction 12speed set up with a microshift bar end 
> and GX Eagle derailer/cassette. I have been pleased with how well it works
>
> On Tuesday, January 12, 2021 at 11:28:54 AM UTC-5 Matthew P wrote:
>
>> Thank you Sam for this post. This is currently on my mind.
>> My friends insisted on a clutch derailer, and then, better than 
>> insisting, a friend gave me one (I reciprocated to make it a trade :)
>>
>> So I've been internally himming and hawing over what shifter to run on my 
>> Shimano 11 speed clutch derailer and Shimano 11-42, 11 speed casette.
>> One thing that came to mind is I'd like to have friction shifting an 
>> option if/when, for some reason, I can't correctly tune the indexed 
>> shifting with a barrel adjuster etc.
>> I think the barcon/bar-end option to switch between indexed and friction 
>> shifting is a really nice option and back-up plan.
>> I am also a little resistant to mountain bike trigger shifters, not for 
>> mechanical reasons, just...personal prefernce/bias.
>>
>> So I'm thinking I'll go with the Microshift 11 spd thumb shifter.
>> It looks like its the SL-M11 I want:
>> https://www.microshift.com/en/product/sl-m11/
>> I wish it had the bolt with the folding loop on top like the Shimanos to 
>> make it easier to switch between friction and indexed.
>>
>> I think I'm decided now, thanks, but also happy to hear more.
>>
>> -Matthew
>> San Diego, CA
>>
>> On Monday, January 11, 2021 at 9:24:00 PM UTC-8 Adam in Indiana wrote:
>>
>>> I’ve been using 1x11 for a while, in both friction and indexed.  I use 
>>> an appropriate Microshift lever with a Shimano SLX clutch derailleur, and 
>>> it works flawlessly.  I started it out as a bar-end, but now have it on a 
>>> hydraulic Gevenalle setup.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 1:24:37 AM UTC-5 Sam Perez wrote:
>>>
 Any one have any experience with a friction 1x set up ? I'm really 
 curious, but was discouraged bc I've herd anything above an 8s suffers on 
 friction mode, is there a shifters that would be adequate and is the 
 shifting more fussy ?

 Thanks

>>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/ba5ef17e-e721-4767-b019-96c862a8d3ecn%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Friction 1x11

[Patrick Moore]

This is very good to know. I don't expect that I will want to go beyond 10
-- when I decided to convert from friction 9 to friction 10, I thought I
was being daringly cutting edge -- but it's good to know that there remain
further possibilities, if and when.

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 10:08 AM Adam Bowen 
wrote:

> I am currently running a friction 12speed set up with a microshift bar end
> and GX Eagle derailer/cassette. I have been pleased with how well it works
>
-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgtvW5-_0Y2cLgb%2B8VLZg3zGRJVcTvvouoX%2BeYJYNKOc6A%40mail.gmail.com.

[RBW] Re: Friction 1x11

[Adam Bowen]

I am currently running a friction 12speed set up with a microshift bar end 
and GX Eagle derailer/cassette. I have been pleased with how well it works

On Tuesday, January 12, 2021 at 11:28:54 AM UTC-5 Matthew P wrote:

> Thank you Sam for this post. This is currently on my mind.
> My friends insisted on a clutch derailer, and then, better than insisting, 
> a friend gave me one (I reciprocated to make it a trade :)
>
> So I've been internally himming and hawing over what shifter to run on my 
> Shimano 11 speed clutch derailer and Shimano 11-42, 11 speed casette.
> One thing that came to mind is I'd like to have friction shifting an 
> option if/when, for some reason, I can't correctly tune the indexed 
> shifting with a barrel adjuster etc.
> I think the barcon/bar-end option to switch between indexed and friction 
> shifting is a really nice option and back-up plan.
> I am also a little resistant to mountain bike trigger shifters, not for 
> mechanical reasons, just...personal prefernce/bias.
>
> So I'm thinking I'll go with the Microshift 11 spd thumb shifter.
> It looks like its the SL-M11 I want:
> https://www.microshift.com/en/product/sl-m11/
> I wish it had the bolt with the folding loop on top like the Shimanos to 
> make it easier to switch between friction and indexed.
>
> I think I'm decided now, thanks, but also happy to hear more.
>
> -Matthew
> San Diego, CA
>
> On Monday, January 11, 2021 at 9:24:00 PM UTC-8 Adam in Indiana wrote:
>
>> I’ve been using 1x11 for a while, in both friction and indexed.  I use an 
>> appropriate Microshift lever with a Shimano SLX clutch derailleur, and it 
>> works flawlessly.  I started it out as a bar-end, but now have it on a 
>> hydraulic Gevenalle setup.
>>
>> On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 1:24:37 AM UTC-5 Sam Perez wrote:
>>
>>> Any one have any experience with a friction 1x set up ? I'm really 
>>> curious, but was discouraged bc I've herd anything above an 8s suffers on 
>>> friction mode, is there a shifters that would be adequate and is the 
>>> shifting more fussy ?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/4ad849a8-b998-4c74-9f43-a66b54b6a463n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Friction 1x11

[Matthew P]

Thank you Sam for this post. This is currently on my mind.
My friends insisted on a clutch derailer, and then, better than insisting, 
a friend gave me one (I reciprocated to make it a trade :)

So I've been internally himming and hawing over what shifter to run on my 
Shimano 11 speed clutch derailer and Shimano 11-42, 11 speed casette.
One thing that came to mind is I'd like to have friction shifting an option 
if/when, for some reason, I can't correctly tune the indexed shifting with 
a barrel adjuster etc.
I think the barcon/bar-end option to switch between indexed and friction 
shifting is a really nice option and back-up plan.
I am also a little resistant to mountain bike trigger shifters, not for 
mechanical reasons, just...personal prefernce/bias.

So I'm thinking I'll go with the Microshift 11 spd thumb shifter.
It looks like its the SL-M11 I want:
https://www.microshift.com/en/product/sl-m11/
I wish it had the bolt with the folding loop on top like the Shimanos to 
make it easier to switch between friction and indexed.

I think I'm decided now, thanks, but also happy to hear more.

-Matthew
San Diego, CA

On Monday, January 11, 2021 at 9:24:00 PM UTC-8 Adam in Indiana wrote:

> I’ve been using 1x11 for a while, in both friction and indexed.  I use an 
> appropriate Microshift lever with a Shimano SLX clutch derailleur, and it 
> works flawlessly.  I started it out as a bar-end, but now have it on a 
> hydraulic Gevenalle setup.
>
> On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 1:24:37 AM UTC-5 Sam Perez wrote:
>
>> Any one have any experience with a friction 1x set up ? I'm really 
>> curious, but was discouraged bc I've herd anything above an 8s suffers on 
>> friction mode, is there a shifters that would be adequate and is the 
>> shifting more fussy ?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/50adc7b9-21a9-4ba8-8f58-d88d179bec1cn%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Friction 1x11

[Adam in Indiana]

I’ve been using 1x11 for a while, in both friction and indexed.  I use an 
appropriate Microshift lever with a Shimano SLX clutch derailleur, and it 
works flawlessly.  I started it out as a bar-end, but now have it on a 
hydraulic Gevenalle setup.

On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 1:24:37 AM UTC-5 Sam Perez wrote:

> Any one have any experience with a friction 1x set up ? I'm really 
> curious, but was discouraged bc I've herd anything above an 8s suffers on 
> friction mode, is there a shifters that would be adequate and is the 
> shifting more fussy ?
>
> Thanks
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/67fa1c45-582d-4edd-b39c-92f00bb9b97bn%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Friction 1x11

[Patrick Moore]

Adding my tiny clamor to the general hubub (not Hubbuhubbuh): I've done
this for years with 7, 8, 9, and 10 speed cassettes. Currently
I shift a 1X10 (with granny bailout) using Suntour bar cons and a 7 or 8
speed rd (Dura Ace 7401), and it works surprisingly well despite the
shifter and derailleur not being "optimized" for the job. After I swapped
out the mix 'n' match cogs (7, 8, and 9 speed used with 10 sp spacers) for
actual 10 speed Miche cogs used with *eleven speed spacers,** "excellent"
got taken to "wholly superlative."

The 1X10 as above shifts better than any 1X5 or 1X6 freewheel drivetrain
I've used, and I don't complain about shifting 5 or 6 speed freewheels.

A trick I learned from Bike Radar, to wit, use a chain 1 generation later
than your cassette to make good shifting even better; thus 11 with 10, 10
with 9, etc. I use modestly priced SRAM chains, in case that makes a
difference.

On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 11:19 AM Michael Morrissey <
michaelgmorris...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes, of course it will work. I have a friction 9 speed set up on my
> Rivendell and, yes, it is a little fussy, but it works incredibly smoothly
> and I have a clutch derailleur. I use the Silver1 shifter because it's
> longer and therefore slightly more precise IMHO.
>
> On my other bike, I have a Suntour Power Ratchet thumbshifter with a Deore
> 7 speed setup on the back. It is truly bulletproof. I have ridden it for
> years with ZERO adjustment.
>
> Post up a list of the parts you have and I'm sure we can figure out if it
> will work or not.
>
> m
>
>
> On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 10:20:21 AM UTC-5 Philip Williamson wrote:
>
>> Friction shifting 11 speeds is easier than friction on 9. Shifting isn’t
>> fussy at all.
>> I have a silver downtube shifter. The throw of the shifter is maxed out -
>> it’s parallel to the down tube at each end of the throw, but that’s fine.
>>
>> Philip
>> Santa Rosa, CA
>> On Saturday, January 9, 2021 at 10:24:37 PM UTC-8 Sam Perez wrote:
>>
>>> Any one have any experience with a friction 1x set up ? I'm really
>>> curious, but was discouraged bc I've herd anything above an 8s suffers on
>>> friction mode, is there a shifters that would be adequate and is the
>>> shifting more fussy ?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/6d91522d-b948-45ad-be76-6c48bb387ac6n%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>


-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgviA6pZtSG0CywLEejK_44hZb39Bg9S9dwHRXqFi7LXJw%40mail.gmail.com.

[RBW] Re: Friction 1x11

[Michael Morrissey]

Yes, of course it will work. I have a friction 9 speed set up on my 
Rivendell and, yes, it is a little fussy, but it works incredibly smoothly 
and I have a clutch derailleur. I use the Silver1 shifter because it's 
longer and therefore slightly more precise IMHO. 

On my other bike, I have a Suntour Power Ratchet thumbshifter with a Deore 
7 speed setup on the back. It is truly bulletproof. I have ridden it for 
years with ZERO adjustment.

Post up a list of the parts you have and I'm sure we can figure out if it 
will work or not.

m


On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 10:20:21 AM UTC-5 Philip Williamson wrote:

> Friction shifting 11 speeds is easier than friction on 9. Shifting isn’t 
> fussy at all.
> I have a silver downtube shifter. The throw of the shifter is maxed out - 
> it’s parallel to the down tube at each end of the throw, but that’s fine.
>
> Philip
> Santa Rosa, CA
> On Saturday, January 9, 2021 at 10:24:37 PM UTC-8 Sam Perez wrote:
>
>> Any one have any experience with a friction 1x set up ? I'm really 
>> curious, but was discouraged bc I've herd anything above an 8s suffers on 
>> friction mode, is there a shifters that would be adequate and is the 
>> shifting more fussy ?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/6d91522d-b948-45ad-be76-6c48bb387ac6n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Friction 1x11

[Philip Williamson]

Friction shifting 11 speeds is easier than friction on 9. Shifting isn’t 
fussy at all.
I have a silver downtube shifter. The throw of the shifter is maxed out - 
it’s parallel to the down tube at each end of the throw, but that’s fine.

Philip
Santa Rosa, CA
On Saturday, January 9, 2021 at 10:24:37 PM UTC-8 Sam Perez wrote:

> Any one have any experience with a friction 1x set up ? I'm really 
> curious, but was discouraged bc I've herd anything above an 8s suffers on 
> friction mode, is there a shifters that would be adequate and is the 
> shifting more fussy ?
>
> Thanks
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/44ff60e7-9106-4af4-814a-9d014576eeadn%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Friction 1x11

[jamison brosseau]

I run a box components 9 speed wide range cassette 1x and have experienced 
no issues  or any desire to run a larger cassette.  I have used microshift 
, dura ace and sunrace shifters.  I have recently switched to indexed 
shifting and am not sure I will be going back to friction any time soon.

On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 1:24:37 AM UTC-5 Sam Perez wrote:

> Any one have any experience with a friction 1x set up ? I'm really 
> curious, but was discouraged bc I've herd anything above an 8s suffers on 
> friction mode, is there a shifters that would be adequate and is the 
> shifting more fussy ?
>
> Thanks
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/71fbfabd-e156-4662-ad3e-3dd2e7c1a563n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: friction mode on silver shifters and shimano down tube dura ace shifters slip!

[Grady Wright]

I have had the same experience with my new silver shifters. They will not 
hold their position even when I tighten them to the point It's to difficult 
to shift. I am using an old M952 xtr derailleur.  They've even frayed and 
broken the shifter cable. I emailed them about it a couple time with no 
response but seems from the latest blog I believe that they are addressing 
at least the issue with it cutting the cable. Little disappointed as they 
are really nice looking shifters.  

On Thursday, August 27, 2020 at 11:32:06 p.m. UTC-6 Sam Perez wrote:

> Oh I didn't think of that I'm only just now tinkering with more than just 
> changing handle bars. I don't remember the last time I purchased a 
> replacement. I remember I broke the chain 2 years ago and replaced it. 
>
> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 12:55 PM tuolumne bikes  wrote:
>
>> Are you absolutely sure the cable is slipping? Does it always move in the 
>> same direction? (Gets harder to pedal for traditional rear derailleur.) 
>> Never happens in index mode? Skipping on worn cogs with a newer chain can 
>> seem like a shifting problem especially if it's on the larger cogs and 
>> you're pedaling hard uphill. If the cassette is oldish, replacing it can 
>> narrow down the possibilities.
>>
>> Carl
>> On Thursday, August 20, 2020 at 7:14:40 AM UTC-7 Sam Perez wrote:
>>
>>> does any one know how to trouble shoot friction shifters that wont hold 
>>> gears under hard effort, i have riv silver shifters and 9speed dura ace 
>>> down tube shifters that slip on friction mode.
>>>
>>> I have done the following only to have the lever loose grip after a few 
>>> shifts. (lots of hills)
>>> -tightened the bolt (done) 
>>> -tightened the D ring (done)
>>> -adjusted the rear  deralure (done) 
>>>
>>> any thoughts?
>>>
>>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/69ce423e-ddf5-446f-a080-183e86898cebn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/f13d8683-56a3-4385-b7c9-8f2d4f297862n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: friction mode on silver shifters and shimano down tube dura ace shifters slip!

[Sam Perez]

Oh I didn't think of that I'm only just now tinkering with more than just
changing handle bars. I don't remember the last time I purchased a
replacement. I remember I broke the chain 2 years ago and replaced it.

On Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 12:55 PM tuolumne bikes 
wrote:

> Are you absolutely sure the cable is slipping? Does it always move in the
> same direction? (Gets harder to pedal for traditional rear derailleur.)
> Never happens in index mode? Skipping on worn cogs with a newer chain can
> seem like a shifting problem especially if it's on the larger cogs and
> you're pedaling hard uphill. If the cassette is oldish, replacing it can
> narrow down the possibilities.
>
> Carl
> On Thursday, August 20, 2020 at 7:14:40 AM UTC-7 Sam Perez wrote:
>
>> does any one know how to trouble shoot friction shifters that wont hold
>> gears under hard effort, i have riv silver shifters and 9speed dura ace
>> down tube shifters that slip on friction mode.
>>
>> I have done the following only to have the lever loose grip after a few
>> shifts. (lots of hills)
>> -tightened the bolt (done)
>> -tightened the D ring (done)
>> -adjusted the rear  deralure (done)
>>
>> any thoughts?
>>
>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/69ce423e-ddf5-446f-a080-183e86898cebn%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAJN34zkngVJwp0mar6i2O1LQEmj1Hk9-NcqZP4UkDtQ3jKiWug%40mail.gmail.com.

[RBW] Re: friction mode on silver shifters and shimano down tube dura ace shifters slip!

[tuolumne bikes]

Are you absolutely sure the cable is slipping? Does it always move in the 
same direction? (Gets harder to pedal for traditional rear derailleur.) 
Never happens in index mode? Skipping on worn cogs with a newer chain can 
seem like a shifting problem especially if it's on the larger cogs and 
you're pedaling hard uphill. If the cassette is oldish, replacing it can 
narrow down the possibilities.

Carl
On Thursday, August 20, 2020 at 7:14:40 AM UTC-7 Sam Perez wrote:

> does any one know how to trouble shoot friction shifters that wont hold 
> gears under hard effort, i have riv silver shifters and 9speed dura ace 
> down tube shifters that slip on friction mode.
>
> I have done the following only to have the lever loose grip after a few 
> shifts. (lots of hills)
> -tightened the bolt (done) 
> -tightened the D ring (done)
> -adjusted the rear  deralure (done) 
>
> any thoughts?
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/69ce423e-ddf5-446f-a080-183e86898cebn%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: friction mode on silver shifters and shimano down tube dura ace shifters slip!

[Andreas]

As you state this occurs under hard efforts, it could be that this is due 
to a "soft" frame and has nothing to do with the shifting setup.

Andreas

On Thursday, August 20, 2020 at 10:14:40 AM UTC-4, Sam Perez wrote:
>
> does any one know how to trouble shoot friction shifters that wont hold 
> gears under hard effort, i have riv silver shifters and 9speed dura ace 
> down tube shifters that slip on friction mode.
>
> I have done the following only to have the lever loose grip after a few 
> shifts. (lots of hills)
> -tightened the bolt (done) 
> -tightened the D ring (done)
> -adjusted the rear  deralure (done) 
>
> any thoughts?
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/47cedeef-7e01-4c7a-8d79-f1a6b6c94079o%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: friction mode on silver shifters and shimano down tube dura ace shifters slip!

[Sam Perez]

On the silver shifter I have a Shimano xt rear derailleur and on the dura
ace down tube I have a micro shift short cage deraliur. Hmm 樂 I tightened
it to the point it takes effort to shift so, looks like this could be frame
flex/Rd shifter combo/ need of adjustible locktight..

On Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 9:15 AM Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> Yes, many good mechanics know how to trouble shoot friction shifters that
> wont hold gears under hard effort
>
> My thoughts are that there is one of two things going on: Either you are
> never getting it tight enough, or it is loosening itself up.
>
> The reason you may not be able to get it tight enough is that the bolt
> that threads into the downtube shifter boss is bottoming out at the bottom
> of the threaded hole.  It feels tight in your hand, because it's bottoming
> out, but it's not actually squeezing the friction bits any harder.  To test
> this, tighten it to confirm whether it is possible to make it too-tight.
> Can you tighten it to a point where the friction is clearly too firm?  If
> so, then this is not what is going on.  Alternatively remove the shifter
> entirely and install only the bolt and observe how far in you can thread it
> before it bottoms out.  See what that looks like and what it feels like.
> If you determine the bolt is bottoming out, carefully file 0.5mm off the
> end and you should be good.
>
> If you can get it tight enough, and it transitions from 'tight enough' to
> 'not tight enough' over a few shifts, then the bolt is loosening itself.
> Consider using a not-too-permanent threadlocker.  I'd start with blue
> Loctite.  Also decide if you have parts that don't fit well on the shifter
> boss that are free to wobble somewhat, and that wobbling helps auto-extract
> the bolt.
>
> If the judgement calls are difficult, find a good mechanic you trust to
> put their eyes on it.  One other contributor can be excessive friction on
> the cable at the BB.  Your hard efforts cause the cable to very slightly
> tighten and loosen as you flex the frame.  The friction between the cable
> and the housing or guides at the BB can 'win' in the tug-of-war with the
> shifter.
>
> The last thing is to question whether the return spring on your rear
> derailler is just too strong.  If you are using an RD that is clearly
> intended for index-only operation, or one with a known super-burly spring,
> you just may have a poor combo of parts.
>
> These are the things I'd go through if the bike(s) were in my stand
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito CA
>
> On Thursday, August 20, 2020 at 7:14:40 AM UTC-7 Sam Perez wrote:
>
>> does any one know how to trouble shoot friction shifters that wont hold
>> gears under hard effort, i have riv silver shifters and 9speed dura ace
>> down tube shifters that slip on friction mode.
>>
>> I have done the following only to have the lever loose grip after a few
>> shifts. (lots of hills)
>> -tightened the bolt (done)
>> -tightened the D ring (done)
>> -adjusted the rear  deralure (done)
>>
>> any thoughts?
>>
>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/1bf8cf26-66e7-4afe-8c15-a0fe2050209an%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAJN34zktH3bzqXNwsJ3wUBP2gBuJEEFTrcZ9BL3LbZiPcO6LNw%40mail.gmail.com.

[RBW] Re: friction mode on silver shifters and shimano down tube dura ace shifters slip!

[Bill Lindsay]

Yes, many good mechanics know how to trouble shoot friction shifters that 
wont hold gears under hard effort

My thoughts are that there is one of two things going on: Either you are 
never getting it tight enough, or it is loosening itself up.  

The reason you may not be able to get it tight enough is that the bolt that 
threads into the downtube shifter boss is bottoming out at the bottom of 
the threaded hole.  It feels tight in your hand, because it's bottoming 
out, but it's not actually squeezing the friction bits any harder.  To test 
this, tighten it to confirm whether it is possible to make it too-tight.  
Can you tighten it to a point where the friction is clearly too firm?  If 
so, then this is not what is going on.  Alternatively remove the shifter 
entirely and install only the bolt and observe how far in you can thread it 
before it bottoms out.  See what that looks like and what it feels like.  
If you determine the bolt is bottoming out, carefully file 0.5mm off the 
end and you should be good.  

If you can get it tight enough, and it transitions from 'tight enough' to 
'not tight enough' over a few shifts, then the bolt is loosening itself.  
Consider using a not-too-permanent threadlocker.  I'd start with blue 
Loctite.  Also decide if you have parts that don't fit well on the shifter 
boss that are free to wobble somewhat, and that wobbling helps auto-extract 
the bolt.  

If the judgement calls are difficult, find a good mechanic you trust to put 
their eyes on it.  One other contributor can be excessive friction on the 
cable at the BB.  Your hard efforts cause the cable to very slightly 
tighten and loosen as you flex the frame.  The friction between the cable 
and the housing or guides at the BB can 'win' in the tug-of-war with the 
shifter.  

The last thing is to question whether the return spring on your rear 
derailler is just too strong.  If you are using an RD that is clearly 
intended for index-only operation, or one with a known super-burly spring, 
you just may have a poor combo of parts.  

These are the things I'd go through if the bike(s) were in my stand

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito CA  

On Thursday, August 20, 2020 at 7:14:40 AM UTC-7 Sam Perez wrote:

> does any one know how to trouble shoot friction shifters that wont hold 
> gears under hard effort, i have riv silver shifters and 9speed dura ace 
> down tube shifters that slip on friction mode.
>
> I have done the following only to have the lever loose grip after a few 
> shifts. (lots of hills)
> -tightened the bolt (done) 
> -tightened the D ring (done)
> -adjusted the rear  deralure (done) 
>
> any thoughts?
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/1bf8cf26-66e7-4afe-8c15-a0fe2050209an%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: friction mode on silver shifters and shimano down tube dura ace shifters slip!

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Check the cable routing, especially the ferrule fit. A minor movement 
between the cable and ferrule or the ferrule and a cable stop can sometimes 
cause this.
Double-check that there is not a "second" ferrule stuck in a stop somewhere 
(including the derailleur). 
If the bike was built up with too tight of a cable/housing run, that 
sometimes causes that.  
Too tight of an arc at the RD.
Derailleur not completely tightened/attached.
Bent derailleur hanger

Since it's happening on two different sets of shifters, the problem is 
likely in the cable run or derailleur. 
Also, you might make sure that the bike was built up with the proper type 
of housing - brake housing and derailleur housing are not the same. 

Hope that helps!

- Jim


On Thursday, August 20, 2020 at 7:14:40 AM UTC-7, Sam Perez wrote:
>
> does any one know how to trouble shoot friction shifters that wont hold 
> gears under hard effort, i have riv silver shifters and 9speed dura ace 
> down tube shifters that slip on friction mode.
>
> I have done the following only to have the lever loose grip after a few 
> shifts. (lots of hills)
> -tightened the bolt (done) 
> -tightened the D ring (done)
> -adjusted the rear  deralure (done) 
>
> any thoughts?
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/01fa74f4-6ef4-4934-984b-2ff19d5f1707o%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Friction Shifting Dyna-sys

[Pancake]

I'm looking at using friction shifters (Sunrace thumbies upside down) on my 
9-speed cassette with a clutched derailleur from: (a) Shimano 10 speed 
(e.g., M786) or (b) Microshift Advent ... could you give me some more info 
about the Blahg or Blug that mentioned this method for adjusting the 
shifter diameter to adjust cable pull? Or am I reading that wrong and it 
wouldn't affect cable pull distance?

Abe


On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 7:27:19 AM UTC-7, lconley wrote:
>
> You can install some housing inner liner on the part of cable that wraps 
> around the shifter - effectively increasing the diameter of the shifter. 
> You can hold the liner in place with shrink wrap beyond where the shifter 
> wraps the cable. It was on the Blug or Blahg a month or so ago. I don't 
> know if you can use a couple of layers of shrink wrap directly and skip the 
> liner. I doubt the shrink wrap would hold up long term rubbing on the 
> shifter.
>
> Laing
> Cocoa FL
>
> On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 10:11:28 AM UTC-4, Jon BALER wrote:
>
>> I have a shimano 9 speed bar end shifter (in friction mode) with 10 speed 
>> dynasis rear der.  I had to dremel the shifter mount to allow for more 
>> lever travel/rotation to get enough cable pull.
>>
>> On another bike, I have a IRD Silver SOS power ratchet with 10 speed 
>> dynasis rear der.   With the standard (e.g. flat bar) mounts, the shifters 
>> had enough cable travel to shift the entire cassette.  When I converted 
>> them to bar end shifters using Riv mounts, I no longer have enough travel 
>> to reach 1 cog on the cassette.  I either have to dremel the mounts, or 
>> continue to live with not reaching one cog.
>>
>> Thanks for the info on the 8 speed shifter working.  Sounds like that may 
>> also be a good solution for me.
>>
>> On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 2:59:55 PM UTC-4, Frederic Laforest wrote:
>>>
>>> indeed  i just succesfully mix an old shimano 105 8s sis/friction ( in 
>>> friction mode ) with a  10 speed  shimano cassette  but with a mega 9 xt 
>>> rd-771 sgs  , now  my plan is to test the zee derailleur rd m640 (from my 
>>> other bike) with these shifter in friction mode  
>>>
>>> Le jeudi 2 juillet 2015 12:58:55 UTC-4, Clayton.sf a écrit :

 Hi All,

  

 Thought some of you would be interested that despite the fact that 
 internet says you can’t mix shimano Dyna-sys rear derailers with anything 
 but Dyna-sys shifters I am successfully running them with shimano ultegra 
 8 
 speed bar ends in friction mode. The shifting not only works it works 
 amazingly well. The longer cable pull allows for finer trimming and a 
 greater “sweet spot”. Shifting is crisp and direct which I think is the 
 result of not having that floating pulley. I am running it with and 8 
 speed 
 cassette, 8 speed chain, and a triple front. Hope this information is 
 helpful. And yes, I can shift across the entire cassette.

  

 Thanks,

 Clayton Scott

>>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/307d1db7-5089-45cb-9364-3d6975ac9523%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Friction vs Indexed

[Steve Palincsar]

True, but you can do that with indexed bar end and downtube shifters, too.

On 4/10/19 10:23 PM, Teague Scott wrote:


I think one of the beauties about friction is the ability to shift 
multiple cogs in one swift, quiet motion. This can be of huge benefit 
on the trail, but one needs to maintain momentum to do it.


--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [RBW] Re: Friction vs Indexed

[Teague Scott]

I run friction on both my bikes - 3x9 and 1x11. I like being able to get 
things perfectly dialed so my drivetrain is silent. I know you can get that 
with an indexed system, but it's nice to know I never have to worry about 
it failing. Once you spend some time with friction you'll be able to shift 
cleanly every time.

I think one of the beauties about friction is the ability to shift multiple 
cogs in one swift, quiet motion. This can be of huge benefit on the trail, 
but one needs to maintain momentum to do it.

One of the keys to smooth friction shifting (especially in the direction of 
larger cogs) is letting a little pressure off the drivetrain. Grant's 
motto, or somebody's and something like it, is "off at 5, on at 12." This 
refers to one of your feet - your favorite. When it is at about 5 o'clock 
let off on its downward pressure, shift and then reapply pressure to the 
pedal once back at the 12 o'clock position. After a while, this process 
takes no thought at all. This trick along with muscle memory in the thumb 
will lead to smoother and smoother shifting over time.

On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 4:56:21 PM UTC-6, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> Have you tried adjusting cable tension?  Usually, reluctance to shift to 
> higher gears indicates excessive cable tension.  If that was the case, 
> you'd expect pretty snappy downshifting.  On the other hand, 
> "semi-responsive" to downshift, "reluctant" to upshift sounds like the 
> whole thing is sluggish.  Is there excessive friction in the cable run?  
> Gunk in the plastic cable guide doohickey under the bottom bracket?  Crud 
> in the housing loop at the rear derailleur?  Poorly finished housing ends 
> casing cable drag?
>
>
> On 4/10/19 6:44 PM, 'Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:
>
> My demo Gus Boots came with XT 1x11 indexing. I am impressed so far with how 
> it shifts except for a few things: 1. though it shifts semi-responsively to 
> lower gears, shifting to higher gears is reluctant; 2. it requires coaxing to 
> get into the highest gear. I’m unsure how to solve that. With friction, it 
> would be easy, but I doubt an 11x and friction play well together and it may 
> not even be an option.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
>
> -- 
> Steve Palincsar
> Alexandria, Virginia 
> USA
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction vs Indexed

['Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Thank you, Eric, for that Park video link. I got my 11x dialed in, at least as 
far as a test ride up and down the block goes, and I now have all 11 gears and 
all 11 are behaving. I may actually have a handle on how to adjust this 
indexing insanity in the field now. Grin.

Steve, you called it, too much tension. I let some out, and barrel adjusted to 
align the indexing, and hey! presto.

With abandon,
Patrick

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction vs Indexed

[Ash]

His precise instructions to the cool production and editing touches, 
that Park Tools videos is very good all around!


On Thursday, 11 April 2019 08:11:43 UTC-7, Eric Myers wrote:
>
> I've mostly ridden older bikes which came to me in good shape so I just 
> rode them as they came, after I cleaned them, replaced rubber parts and 
> sometimes cables/housing, and gave them a tuneup.  In all this time I only 
> had one bike with indexed shifting (and a derailleur).  It worked OK, but 
> tended to skip the occasional gear when shifting.  This didn't bother me 
> that much for the type of riding I was doing, but it irked me.  
> Occasionally I flipped it to friction, but the shifters weren't as nice in 
> friction mode as some of the others I was used to.  I did put silver 
> shifters on one bike, and they were definitely nicer than any of the other 
> friction shifters I had.  But basically I felt like there were issues with 
> both index and friction, and I couldn't completely discount my mechanical 
> skills as part of the problem.
>
> When I got my Sam Hillborne frame, I decided to try for the "have my cake 
> and eat it too" option of the Shimano bar end shifters with index and 
> friction modes.  The first try went OK, but after several months it started 
> skipping some gears. I figured this was possibly due to cables stretching, 
> plus I was using 8 spd shifters on a 7 spd rear wheel.  But again, it was 
> more mildly irksome than actual bothersome.  More recently, I put on a new 
> derailleur and new wheels with a 9 spd cassette, and originally figured I 
> was just going to swap friction.  But that irked part of me spoke up and 
> wanted to try again with the 9 spd indexed shifters.  So, that's what I've 
> done, but this time with more research.  Park Tools has a really good video 
> with Calvin Jones walking through  how to adjust a rear derailleur, 
> covering limit screws and indexing:  
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkZxPIZ1ngY  Following this video I got 
> the new setup shifting much more smoothly than any of my past indexing.  
> We'll see how long it lasts, and how easy it is to re-adjust down the 
> line.  For now I'm pretty happy with it.
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction vs Indexed

['Eric Myers' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I've mostly ridden older bikes which came to me in good shape so I just 
rode them as they came, after I cleaned them, replaced rubber parts and 
sometimes cables/housing, and gave them a tuneup.  In all this time I only 
had one bike with indexed shifting (and a derailleur).  It worked OK, but 
tended to skip the occasional gear when shifting.  This didn't bother me 
that much for the type of riding I was doing, but it irked me.  
Occasionally I flipped it to friction, but the shifters weren't as nice in 
friction mode as some of the others I was used to.  I did put silver 
shifters on one bike, and they were definitely nicer than any of the other 
friction shifters I had.  But basically I felt like there were issues with 
both index and friction, and I couldn't completely discount my mechanical 
skills as part of the problem.

When I got my Sam Hillborne frame, I decided to try for the "have my cake 
and eat it too" option of the Shimano bar end shifters with index and 
friction modes.  The first try went OK, but after several months it started 
skipping some gears. I figured this was possibly due to cables stretching, 
plus I was using 8 spd shifters on a 7 spd rear wheel.  But again, it was 
more mildly irksome than actual bothersome.  More recently, I put on a new 
derailleur and new wheels with a 9 spd cassette, and originally figured I 
was just going to swap friction.  But that irked part of me spoke up and 
wanted to try again with the 9 spd indexed shifters.  So, that's what I've 
done, but this time with more research.  Park Tools has a really good video 
with Calvin Jones walking through  how to adjust a rear derailleur, 
covering limit screws and indexing:  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkZxPIZ1ngY  Following this video I got the 
new setup shifting much more smoothly than any of my past indexing.  We'll 
see how long it lasts, and how easy it is to re-adjust down the line.  For 
now I'm pretty happy with it.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction vs Indexed

[Garth]

Shifting like everything . There's no going-getting-it "wrong" OR 
"right"   There's just Going  Riding along .   Any shifts within 
the Ride are the very Identical Ride Itself. The Ride Riding(shifting) 
the Ride.   

Oh yes  "what about me, the rider" ?  Ahahaahahah  The Ride is the 
Rider as the Rider is the Ride !  Inseparable ;-)  

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction vs Indexed

[Ash]

When I assembled my first Riv 2 years ago, I bought Microshift 9 speed 
shifters from HQ along with the frame and other parts.  Mounted them on the 
inside of handlebar, so rear was friction and front was indexed. This 
shifter had no option to switch between.  Ran this setup for a year with no 
issues.  The whole setup was rock-solid.

But, I have a bit of OCD tendencies.  I would often double check (with 
gentle push) the rear shifter position.  When Rivendell started carrying 
trigger shifters I bought the Deore version.  It was super easy to setup. 
 Been 4 around months.  Works flawlessly with XT, Altus and Sora RD's. 
 Unless it turns out unreliable (meaning if it breaks within 5 years or I 
have to open it before that for maintenance), I've decided to stay with it.

On a road bike that I have converted to use Albatross bars, I have 10 speed 
friction shifter. This is because apparently there is no trigger shifter 
out there that's compatible with Campy Veloce 10 DR.




On Tuesday, 9 April 2019 08:49:44 UTC-7, Friend wrote:
>
> I am getting ready to build up an AHH frame.  I am planning on putting 
> noodle bars on it and having it be 3/9 with bar-end shifters.  I'm 
> wondering whether people here prefer friction or indexed shifters, and why. 
>  Would love to hear any thoughts.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [RBW] Re: Friction vs Indexed

[Steve Palincsar]

Have you tried adjusting cable tension? Usually, reluctance to shift to 
higher gears indicates excessive cable tension.  If that was the case, 
you'd expect pretty snappy downshifting.  On the other hand, 
"semi-responsive" to downshift, "reluctant" to upshift sounds like the 
whole thing is sluggish.  Is there excessive friction in the cable run?  
Gunk in the plastic cable guide doohickey under the bottom bracket? Crud 
in the housing loop at the rear derailleur?  Poorly finished housing 
ends casing cable drag?



On 4/10/19 6:44 PM, 'Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:

My demo Gus Boots came with XT 1x11 indexing. I am impressed so far with how it 
shifts except for a few things: 1. though it shifts semi-responsively to lower 
gears, shifting to higher gears is reluctant; 2. it requires coaxing to get 
into the highest gear. I’m unsure how to solve that. With friction, it would be 
easy, but I doubt an 11x and friction play well together and it may not even be 
an option.

With abandon,
Patrick


--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction vs Indexed

['Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch]

My demo Gus Boots came with XT 1x11 indexing. I am impressed so far with how it 
shifts except for a few things: 1. though it shifts semi-responsively to lower 
gears, shifting to higher gears is reluctant; 2. it requires coaxing to get 
into the highest gear. I’m unsure how to solve that. With friction, it would be 
easy, but I doubt an 11x and friction play well together and it may not even be 
an option.

With abandon,
Patrick

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction vs Indexed

[ascpgh]

Prior to a group ride last night I spoke with a an early arriving rider who 
not only made me feel alien for a steel frame but was amazed at the danger 
I courted for not having brifters. He felt bar end shifters were more 
dangerous than DT levers. I did not tell him they were friction. 

He asked if my bike was really that old or if I had it made that way. It 
was incomprehensible to him that all the "up to the moment" gear was not to 
everyone's preference. I started recalling a reader here or at iBOB who 
said a group ride considered banning non brifter bikes for being "unsafe". 
This ride included a not allowed by UCI TT bike with pronghorn bars. 

I did not see that gentleman after the start and rode the majority of the 
miles with a friend on a metallic framed bike. We gravitate to each other 
in groupings where buying power fails to equate riding skills. The latest 
hot set-up cannot overcome that. Riding my Rambouillet in friction mode 
didn't slow me down up the hills, down the hills or in tight groups. I like 
it that way and am hard pressed to pick a drivetrain for my project bike 
that is starting fabrication today in Brooklyn. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Tuesday, April 9, 2019 at 1:41:24 PM UTC-4, Drw wrote:
>
> once set up, I like indexing marginally more than friction but ive 
> found that the freedom and ease of mixing and matching parts that friction 
> allows makes my life so much easier that it vastly outweighs any minor 
> benefits of indexing.  I'd only friction shift up to 9 speed though, and 
> preferably 8. 
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction vs Indexed

[ascpgh]

At a race my company promoted and operated BITD, a young rider hot out of 
triathlons in Texas named Lance was riding a mash-up of bar end shifter for 
the front derailleur and an STI lever for the rear. He preferred the 
infinite trim available to the friction bar end that the STI couldn't 
match. I agreed then. He had to comply with sponsors (Shimano) and run all 
STI the next year. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Tuesday, April 9, 2019 at 3:42:31 PM UTC-4, S wrote:
>
> +1 on friction front, index back, and +1 on using Shimano shifters that 
> can do both. 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction vs Indexed

[jack loudon]

"I like the idea of doing it myself, and I don't want a machine to take it 
over for me!"

As I get older I also find myself leaning more toward simple over complex.  
Complex can be wonderfully convenient until it fails, and I've had two 
indexing failures.  My first shifter fail was 9-sp Campy Chorus brifters.  
I disassembled them to replace the worn G springs and to my shame, was 
unable to reassemble them, so had to take them to a bike shop (I'm stubborn 
about doing all my own wrenching, and this was before I was aware of 
youtube videos on everything).  Also on that bike I was running Shimano 
freewheels so had to be overly clever in changing cog spacer widths (thanks 
Sheldon) to make the setup shift smoothly with Campy brifters.  My next 
indexing failure was on a Shimano Bar-con, where the solution was simply to 
lift the D ring and rotate the barrel to 'friction'.  I never gave indexing 
much thought after that, as it was a solution to a problem I didn't have.  
 I guess indexing and electronic shifting have their place, but not for the 
kind of riding I do.

Jack - Seattle



On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 6:56:48 AM UTC-7, Dave Grossman wrote:
>
> I'm back to friction almost exclusively now and I am tired of fiddling 
> with indexing setups.  I like the idea of set and forget and I love the 
> idea of really having to be in tune with the bike to shift.  My Jones has 
> 11 speed XT which does shift really nicely, but when I get back to friction 
> on the Hunq I never worry about being out and having an issue arise.  
>
> I kind of find it to be a Luddite vs Industrialization argument, without 
> the machine smashing.  I like the idea of doing it myself, and I don't want 
> a machine to take it over for me!
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [RBW] Re: Friction vs Indexed

[John McBurney]

I think both have their place. The analogy I used is digital versus
analogue audio. I love my turn table and records but by golly I love the
precision and convenience of my digital setup too.

I originally got into friction way back in the 60s then rediscovered it
more recently when I got fed up with different standards for 9 speed 10
speed road, mountain shimano SRAM etc etc etc.

I run the Bombadil 9 speed indexed with DA barcons on Thumbies in index
mode because I Ride it off road some and quick shifting is essential.

On the road there is usually time to reach for the downtube shifter and
fine tune the shift.

John

On Wed, Apr 10, 2019 at 9:56 AM Dave Grossman  wrote:

> I'm back to friction almost exclusively now and I am tired of fiddling
> with indexing setups.  I like the idea of set and forget and I love the
> idea of really having to be in tune with the bike to shift.  My Jones has
> 11 speed XT which does shift really nicely, but when I get back to friction
> on the Hunq I never worry about being out and having an issue arise.
>
> I kind of find it to be a Luddite vs Industrialization argument, without
> the machine smashing.  I like the idea of doing it myself, and I don't want
> a machine to take it over for me!
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction vs Indexed

[Dave Grossman]

I'm back to friction almost exclusively now and I am tired of fiddling with 
indexing setups.  I like the idea of set and forget and I love the idea of 
really having to be in tune with the bike to shift.  My Jones has 11 speed 
XT which does shift really nicely, but when I get back to friction on the 
Hunq I never worry about being out and having an issue arise.  

I kind of find it to be a Luddite vs Industrialization argument, without 
the machine smashing.  I like the idea of doing it myself, and I don't want 
a machine to take it over for me!

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction vs Indexed

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Indexing and STI require less thought from our minds and bodies, bringing us 
closer to the technological ideal of mind-lessness and thought-lessness that we 
seem to be striving for.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction vs Indexed

[Bill Schairer]

Friction for durability, flexibility and I know how to make them work.  I never 
could get the hang of servicing indexed and I had two brifters go bad but never 
a bar end. Then, ‘will this work with that?” is really never an issue - swap 
wheels, cassettes, freewheels, chainrings etc with hardly a thought.  I’ve 
heard plenty of noisy indexed drive trains and missed shifts.

Bill S

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction vs Indexed

[Pancake]

+2 for both indexed and friction. 

I have Microshift shifters on my Sam, they're friction on the front, 
switchable to friction or indexed on the rear. Strongly recommended. 

They call these "friction transferable" meaning you can switch between the 
modes. It requires an allen key, super easy even on the road. My chain 
broke a few weeks ago, had to reassemble it with about 8 missing links 
which screwed up indexing. Quick switch to friction mode got me home 
happily.

https://www.performancebike.com/microshift-double-triple-9speed-bar-end-shifter-set-shimano-compatible-silver-bs-t09/p316886



On Tuesday, April 9, 2019 at 12:42:31 PM UTC-7, S wrote:
>
> +1 on friction front, index back, and +1 on using Shimano shifters that 
> can do both. 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction vs Indexed

[S]

+1 on friction front, index back, and +1 on using Shimano shifters that can do 
both. 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [RBW] Re: Friction vs Indexed

[Patrick Moore]

You are right, indexing might well be a better choice for rapidly changing
terrain and conditions. My technique with friction in "emergency"
situations -- deep sand patch, for example -- is to slam the right lever to
the large cog (or at least to a bigger cogs several positions away) in
order to maintain momentum, since this reduces the need to fine-tune the
chain, and once stabilized, adjust the gear as needed. But if I were riding
technical singletrack with a lot of this sort of shifting, I'd probably
want indexing too. *And* indexing is a lot more precise and reliable now
than in the 7 speed days; I could never get the chain to track perfectly
smoothly on all 7 cogs either with XT thumbshifters or Dura Ace dt shifters.

On Tue, Apr 9, 2019 at 11:04 AM Collin A  wrote:

> I have both friction and index. I've personally found friction to be great
> for more gradually changing terrain that gives you some time to fine tune
> the paddle placement before really cranking down on the pedals without
> fully losing your momentum. However, when I am dealing with highly varied
> terrain that changes very quickly (i.e. singletrack and poorly maintained
> forest service roads), I've found that I am not good enough with friction
> to get the shifts just right without the rear derailleur not being in the
> right position and the chain consequently jumping around when I apply the
> torque (or break, which only happened once!). As such, for my 2x9 speed
> Clem I've moved to indexing in the rear as I've been on the trails more and
> more. However, If I were to mostly stay on the road, I'd keep with friction
> both front and rear.
>
> Hopefully my anecdote helps, and good luck with the build!
> Collin A
>
>
> On Tuesday, April 9, 2019 at 8:49:44 AM UTC-7, Friend wrote:
>>
>> I am getting ready to build up an AHH frame.  I am planning on putting
>> noodle bars on it and having it be 3/9 with bar-end shifters.  I'm
>> wondering whether people here prefer friction or indexed shifters, and
>> why.  Would love to hear any thoughts.
>>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>


-- 



**





*Still 'round the corner there may waitA new road or a secret gate,And
though we pass them by today,Tomorrow we may come this wayAnd take the
hidden paths that runTowards the Moon or to the Sun.*
--- J.R.R. Tolkien
---
Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews
By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching
Other professional writing services
Expensive! But good.
http://www.resumespecialties.com/
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction vs Indexed

[Drw]

once set up, I like indexing marginally more than friction but ive 
found that the freedom and ease of mixing and matching parts that friction 
allows makes my life so much easier that it vastly outweighs any minor 
benefits of indexing.  I'd only friction shift up to 9 speed though, and 
preferably 8. 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction vs Indexed

[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

Here they are! 
I think they're yours?, unless it's another friend. If so, you should 
really keep them. Paired with some Paul's thumbies and they're the greatest 
thumb shifters around. 
https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_source=digest_medium=email#!topic/internet-bob/_NkQDZXqVz4
-Kai

On Tuesday, April 9, 2019 at 1:09:52 PM UTC-4, Mike K. wrote:
>
> There’s a set for sale over on the iBob list as we speak!

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction vs Indexed

[Mike K.]

There’s a set for sale over on the iBob list as we speak!

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction vs Indexed

[Mike K.]

A good shimano bar end should give you the option of index or friction. 9 speed 
has the option for sure.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction vs Indexed

[Collin A]

I have both friction and index. I've personally found friction to be great 
for more gradually changing terrain that gives you some time to fine tune 
the paddle placement before really cranking down on the pedals without 
fully losing your momentum. However, when I am dealing with highly varied 
terrain that changes very quickly (i.e. singletrack and poorly maintained 
forest service roads), I've found that I am not good enough with friction 
to get the shifts just right without the rear derailleur not being in the 
right position and the chain consequently jumping around when I apply the 
torque (or break, which only happened once!). As such, for my 2x9 speed 
Clem I've moved to indexing in the rear as I've been on the trails more and 
more. However, If I were to mostly stay on the road, I'd keep with friction 
both front and rear.

Hopefully my anecdote helps, and good luck with the build!
Collin A


On Tuesday, April 9, 2019 at 8:49:44 AM UTC-7, Friend wrote:
>
> I am getting ready to build up an AHH frame.  I am planning on putting 
> noodle bars on it and having it be 3/9 with bar-end shifters.  I'm 
> wondering whether people here prefer friction or indexed shifters, and why. 
>  Would love to hear any thoughts.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction vs Indexed

[Daniel D.]

Indexing in rear, friction in front. I like the convenience of indexing.  
But not really needed in front and you can easily trim the front derailleur.

On Tuesday, April 9, 2019 at 8:49:44 AM UTC-7, Friend wrote:
>
> I am getting ready to build up an AHH frame.  I am planning on putting 
> noodle bars on it and having it be 3/9 with bar-end shifters.  I'm 
> wondering whether people here prefer friction or indexed shifters, and why. 
>  Would love to hear any thoughts.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction down tube shifters

[Ron Mc]

Paul, made me check.  My Chorus DT shifter covers 150-degrees over the 
width of a Record 8sp cassette, 130mm OLD.  Should be the same pull to 
cover a 10s, but not sure about Shimano vs. Campy pull distance.  
As far as sensitivity, it shifts better than anybody's index - picking the 
next gear is a mindless adjustment you can make even before pedaling.  

 

Without question, Triomphe and earlier Campy DT shifters don't have the 
cable pull.  

On Friday, March 29, 2019 at 2:28:57 PM UTC-5, PaulS wrote:
>
> Thanks for that.  I will look into those as well.  I am currently 
> researching info to see if old Campagnolo DT shifters will work.  I'm 
> getting mixed info.  Those Dia Compe's look pretty cool, too.
>
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction down tube shifters

[PaulS]

Thanks for that.  I will look into those as well.  I am currently 
researching info to see if old Campagnolo DT shifters will work.  I'm 
getting mixed info.  Those Dia Compe's look pretty cool, too.

On Wednesday, March 27, 2019 at 8:54:48 AM UTC-6, eddietheflay wrote:
>
> not a ton of time on the ones I recently installed, but so far smooth and 
> steady:
>
> http://www.diacompe.com.tw/product/ene-w-shift-lever/
>
> On Monday, March 25, 2019 at 1:08:06 PM UTC-7, PaulS wrote:
>>
>> I am looking for a set of downtube shifters for my Hunq. Mated to a 
>> 3x9-sp Mountain drive train (in case they are both index and friction). 
>> What’s a decent set? 
>>
>> I’ve had Riv Silver in the past. However, I could not get the shifter to 
>> stay tight and in gear. I really had to crank on the wing nut to keep it 
>> from loosening up. I even contacted Riv and all they suggested was getting 
>> some Nord-lock washers. Which I had a hard time finding them in the right 
>> size and gave up. 
>>
>> Any other suggestions?   
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction down tube shifters

[Benz, Sunnyvale, CA]

On Thursday, March 28, 2019 at 4:31:35 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Silver/old-Suntour internals, but I seem to recall a convo stating the 
> Dia-Compes have a bigger barrel to work better with 10-speed cassettes.


Shouldn't that be 10-speed Shimano rear *derailleurs* that use more cable 
pull per derailleur displacement, and not 10-speed *cassettes* per se, 
because at least 8/9-speed Shimano derailleurs can move the entire width of 
the cassette (8, 9 and 10 being same overall width) with Silver friction 
shifters. Bigger barrels will also pull more cable per angle of rotation, 
thus reducing "sensitivity", and thus is less preferred.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction down tube shifters

[LBleriot]

The DiaCompe version sold by Velo Orange has the big barrel on the rear 
shifter that pulls a lot of cable and stays put.

On Monday, March 25, 2019 at 4:08:06 PM UTC-4, PaulS wrote:
>
> I am looking for a set of downtube shifters for my Hunq. Mated to a 3x9-sp 
> Mountain drive train (in case they are both index and friction). What’s a 
> decent set? 
>
> I’ve had Riv Silver in the past. However, I could not get the shifter to 
> stay tight and in gear. I really had to crank on the wing nut to keep it 
> from loosening up. I even contacted Riv and all they suggested was getting 
> some Nord-lock washers. Which I had a hard time finding them in the right 
> size and gave up. 
>
> Any other suggestions?   

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction down tube shifters

[eddietheflay]

My Dia Compe ones are mounted on barcon pods and I am shifting a 10 speed 
cassette. It works smoothly but the arc of the lever is really significant. 
I would guess with my challenged thumbs it is a bigger deal and I can 
imagine if I used the shifter on the downtube then that action would be 
much more efficient = the way god intended the levers to be used.

On Monday, March 25, 2019 at 1:08:06 PM UTC-7, PaulS wrote:
>
> I am looking for a set of downtube shifters for my Hunq. Mated to a 3x9-sp 
> Mountain drive train (in case they are both index and friction). What’s a 
> decent set? 
>
> I’ve had Riv Silver in the past. However, I could not get the shifter to 
> stay tight and in gear. I really had to crank on the wing nut to keep it 
> from loosening up. I even contacted Riv and all they suggested was getting 
> some Nord-lock washers. Which I had a hard time finding them in the right 
> size and gave up. 
>
> Any other suggestions?   

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction down tube shifters

[Joe Bernard]

Silver/old-Suntour internals, but I seem to recall a convo stating the 
Dia-Compes have a bigger barrel to work better with 10-speed cassettes. 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction down tube shifters

[Ron Mc]

Almost certain the Diacompe-Ene are Silvers.  

On Wednesday, March 27, 2019 at 9:54:48 AM UTC-5, eddietheflay wrote:
>
> not a ton of time on the ones I recently installed, but so far smooth and 
> steady:
>
> http://www.diacompe.com.tw/product/ene-w-shift-lever/
>
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction down tube shifters

[eddietheflay]

not a ton of time on the ones I recently installed, but so far smooth and 
steady:

http://www.diacompe.com.tw/product/ene-w-shift-lever/

On Monday, March 25, 2019 at 1:08:06 PM UTC-7, PaulS wrote:
>
> I am looking for a set of downtube shifters for my Hunq. Mated to a 3x9-sp 
> Mountain drive train (in case they are both index and friction). What’s a 
> decent set? 
>
> I’ve had Riv Silver in the past. However, I could not get the shifter to 
> stay tight and in gear. I really had to crank on the wing nut to keep it 
> from loosening up. I even contacted Riv and all they suggested was getting 
> some Nord-lock washers. Which I had a hard time finding them in the right 
> size and gave up. 
>
> Any other suggestions?   

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction down tube shifters

[Ron Mc]

Matching cable pull is everything.  The very best I have with long cable 
pull are Campy Chorus.  The best I have with short cable pull are Campy 
Victory

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction down tube shifters

[Nick Payne]

Another vote for the Dura-Ace 7700 DT shifters. You'll be pretty lucky to 
find a pair at a reasonable price, though.

Nick

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction down tube shifters

[sameness]

The Dura-Ace shifters 

 
are really nice.

Jeff Hagedorn
Los Angeles, CA USA

On Monday, March 25, 2019 at 1:08:06 PM UTC-7, PaulS wrote:
>
> I am looking for a set of downtube shifters for my Hunq. Mated to a 3x9-sp 
> Mountain drive train (in case they are both index and friction). What’s a 
> decent set? 
>
> I’ve had Riv Silver in the past. However, I could not get the shifter to 
> stay tight and in gear. I really had to crank on the wing nut to keep it 
> from loosening up. I even contacted Riv and all they suggested was getting 
> some Nord-lock washers. Which I had a hard time finding them in the right 
> size and gave up. 
>
> Any other suggestions?   

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction Shifting Dyna-sys

[lconley]

You can install some housing inner liner on the part of cable that wraps 
around the shifter - effectively increasing the diameter of the shifter. 
You can hold the liner in place with shrink wrap beyond where the shifter 
wraps the cable. It was on the Blug or Blahg a month or so ago. I don't 
know if you can use a couple of layers of shrink wrap directly and skip the 
liner. I doubt the shrink wrap would hold up long term rubbing on the 
shifter.

Laing
Cocoa FL

On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 10:11:28 AM UTC-4, Jon BALER wrote:

> I have a shimano 9 speed bar end shifter (in friction mode) with 10 speed 
> dynasis rear der.  I had to dremel the shifter mount to allow for more 
> lever travel/rotation to get enough cable pull.
>
> On another bike, I have a IRD Silver SOS power ratchet with 10 speed 
> dynasis rear der.   With the standard (e.g. flat bar) mounts, the shifters 
> had enough cable travel to shift the entire cassette.  When I converted 
> them to bar end shifters using Riv mounts, I no longer have enough travel 
> to reach 1 cog on the cassette.  I either have to dremel the mounts, or 
> continue to live with not reaching one cog.
>
> Thanks for the info on the 8 speed shifter working.  Sounds like that may 
> also be a good solution for me.
>
> On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 2:59:55 PM UTC-4, Frederic Laforest wrote:
>>
>> indeed  i just succesfully mix an old shimano 105 8s sis/friction ( in 
>> friction mode ) with a  10 speed  shimano cassette  but with a mega 9 xt 
>> rd-771 sgs  , now  my plan is to test the zee derailleur rd m640 (from my 
>> other bike) with these shifter in friction mode  
>>
>> Le jeudi 2 juillet 2015 12:58:55 UTC-4, Clayton.sf a écrit :
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Thought some of you would be interested that despite the fact that 
>>> internet says you can’t mix shimano Dyna-sys rear derailers with anything 
>>> but Dyna-sys shifters I am successfully running them with shimano ultegra 8 
>>> speed bar ends in friction mode. The shifting not only works it works 
>>> amazingly well. The longer cable pull allows for finer trimming and a 
>>> greater “sweet spot”. Shifting is crisp and direct which I think is the 
>>> result of not having that floating pulley. I am running it with and 8 speed 
>>> cassette, 8 speed chain, and a triple front. Hope this information is 
>>> helpful. And yes, I can shift across the entire cassette.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Clayton Scott
>>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [RBW] Re: Friction Shifting Dyna-sys

[Tim Gavin]

FYI, the 10-speed (black) Shimano pods allow for more lever travel.

On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 9:11 AM, Jon BALER  wrote:

> I have a shimano 9 speed bar end shifter (in friction mode) with 10 speed
> dynasis rear der.  I had to dremel the shifter mount to allow for more
> lever travel/rotation to get enough cable pull.
>
> On another bike, I have a IRD Silver SOS power ratchet with 10 speed
> dynasis rear der.   With the standard (e.g. flat bar) mounts, the shifters
> had enough cable travel to shift the entire cassette.  When I converted
> them to bar end shifters using Riv mounts, I no longer have enough travel
> to reach 1 cog on the cassette.  I either have to dremel the mounts, or
> continue to live with not reaching one cog.
>
> Thanks for the info on the 8 speed shifter working.  Sounds like that may
> also be a good solution for me.
>
> On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 2:59:55 PM UTC-4, Frederic Laforest wrote:
>>
>> indeed  i just succesfully mix an old shimano 105 8s sis/friction ( in
>> friction mode ) with a  10 speed  shimano cassette  but with a mega 9 xt
>> rd-771 sgs  , now  my plan is to test the zee derailleur rd m640 (from my
>> other bike) with these shifter in friction mode
>>
>> Le jeudi 2 juillet 2015 12:58:55 UTC-4, Clayton.sf a écrit :
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thought some of you would be interested that despite the fact that
>>> internet says you can’t mix shimano Dyna-sys rear derailers with anything
>>> but Dyna-sys shifters I am successfully running them with shimano ultegra 8
>>> speed bar ends in friction mode. The shifting not only works it works
>>> amazingly well. The longer cable pull allows for finer trimming and a
>>> greater “sweet spot”. Shifting is crisp and direct which I think is the
>>> result of not having that floating pulley. I am running it with and 8 speed
>>> cassette, 8 speed chain, and a triple front. Hope this information is
>>> helpful. And yes, I can shift across the entire cassette.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Clayton Scott
>>>
>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction Shifting Dyna-sys

[Jon BALER]

I have a shimano 9 speed bar end shifter (in friction mode) with 10 speed 
dynasis rear der.  I had to dremel the shifter mount to allow for more 
lever travel/rotation to get enough cable pull.

On another bike, I have a IRD Silver SOS power ratchet with 10 speed 
dynasis rear der.   With the standard (e.g. flat bar) mounts, the shifters 
had enough cable travel to shift the entire cassette.  When I converted 
them to bar end shifters using Riv mounts, I no longer have enough travel 
to reach 1 cog on the cassette.  I either have to dremel the mounts, or 
continue to live with not reaching one cog.

Thanks for the info on the 8 speed shifter working.  Sounds like that may 
also be a good solution for me.

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 2:59:55 PM UTC-4, Frederic Laforest wrote:
>
> indeed  i just succesfully mix an old shimano 105 8s sis/friction ( in 
> friction mode ) with a  10 speed  shimano cassette  but with a mega 9 xt 
> rd-771 sgs  , now  my plan is to test the zee derailleur rd m640 (from my 
> other bike) with these shifter in friction mode  
>
> Le jeudi 2 juillet 2015 12:58:55 UTC-4, Clayton.sf a écrit :
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>>  
>>
>> Thought some of you would be interested that despite the fact that 
>> internet says you can’t mix shimano Dyna-sys rear derailers with anything 
>> but Dyna-sys shifters I am successfully running them with shimano ultegra 8 
>> speed bar ends in friction mode. The shifting not only works it works 
>> amazingly well. The longer cable pull allows for finer trimming and a 
>> greater “sweet spot”. Shifting is crisp and direct which I think is the 
>> result of not having that floating pulley. I am running it with and 8 speed 
>> cassette, 8 speed chain, and a triple front. Hope this information is 
>> helpful. And yes, I can shift across the entire cassette.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Clayton Scott
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction Shifting Dyna-sys

[Frederic Laforest]

indeed  i just succesfully mix an old shimano 105 8s sis/friction ( in 
friction mode ) with a  10 speed  shimano cassette  but with a mega 9 xt 
rd-771 sgs  , now  my plan is to test the zee derailleur rd m640 (from my 
other bike) with these shifter in friction mode  

Le jeudi 2 juillet 2015 12:58:55 UTC-4, Clayton.sf a écrit :
>
> Hi All,
>
>  
>
> Thought some of you would be interested that despite the fact that 
> internet says you can’t mix shimano Dyna-sys rear derailers with anything 
> but Dyna-sys shifters I am successfully running them with shimano ultegra 8 
> speed bar ends in friction mode. The shifting not only works it works 
> amazingly well. The longer cable pull allows for finer trimming and a 
> greater “sweet spot”. Shifting is crisp and direct which I think is the 
> result of not having that floating pulley. I am running it with and 8 speed 
> cassette, 8 speed chain, and a triple front. Hope this information is 
> helpful. And yes, I can shift across the entire cassette.
>
>  
>
> Thanks,
>
> Clayton Scott
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [RBW] Re: Friction shifting 10 cogs; Road BB7 disc brakes with Yokuzuna

[Patrick Moore]

I'll keep the ICE rotor in mind. Jon: Silver bar end shifters. I daresay
that the "Dynanys" system is not compatible with bar end shifters?

Years ago I shifted 10 sp with Retrofrictions; these also have smaller
barrels. It worked fine, thought the total cassette chain travel required
almost the whole 180 degrees of shifter travel.

On Sat, Jan 21, 2017 at 10:49 PM, Bill in Roswell GA  wrote:

> Patrick, I loved the responsiveness of interrupter levers, but my canti
> brake levers felt mushy and less responsive. Then I changed handlebars, was
> in a bit of a rush and didn't want to take time to re-install the
> interrupters. Behold, the brake levers felt alive and responsive, only
> slightly less than the interrupter levers. So, in my situation on the CX
> bike, it wasn't so much the cable/housing as it was removing the
> interrupters.
>
> However, the top grades of compressionless brake housing do seem to stay
> responsive longer than the mid-grades. One other thing you may want to
> consider at some point, is changing rotors. I thought the TRP rotor that
> came with Spykes/Spyres was quite good. I banged up the front rotor on a
> rock and at the urging of the local master tech, got a Shimano ICE rotor.
> Doing so definitely increased the braking power - more slow down for less
> lever pull. As it was on the front I probably noticed the difference more
> than I would on the rear.
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction shifting 10 cogs; Road BB7 disc brakes with Yokuzuna

[Bill in Roswell GA]

Patrick, I loved the responsiveness of interrupter levers, but my canti 
brake levers felt mushy and less responsive. Then I changed handlebars, was 
in a bit of a rush and didn't want to take time to re-install the 
interrupters. Behold, the brake levers felt alive and responsive, only 
slightly less than the interrupter levers. So, in my situation on the CX 
bike, it wasn't so much the cable/housing as it was removing the 
interrupters. 

However, the top grades of compressionless brake housing do seem to stay 
responsive longer than the mid-grades. One other thing you may want to 
consider at some point, is changing rotors. I thought the TRP rotor that 
came with Spykes/Spyres was quite good. I banged up the front rotor on a 
rock and at the urging of the local master tech, got a Shimano ICE rotor. 
Doing so definitely increased the braking power - more slow down for less 
lever pull. As it was on the front I probably noticed the difference more 
than I would on the rear. 

Cheers,
Bill in Roswell, GA

On Friday, January 20, 2017 at 3:44:48 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> 1. I took the Matthews on a 18.5 mile dirt ride today. Bastardized 10 
> speed cassette, 14-26 composed of Miche 10 speed spacers and whatever cogs 
> came first to had from my large box. 
>
> I haven't notice any difference between friction shifting 7, 8 or 9, but 
> with 10, yes, it does require more finesse. Still, all the cogs shifted 
> fine except for shifts between the #5 and #4, the 18 to the 17 (no problem 
> going the other way), where the gap seems "smaller" but, once you are aware 
> of this, no problem; and the only shift that caused ghost shifting, between 
> the #4 and the #3 and back again, the 17 and 16 and v versa. 
>
> I'll replace the 17 and 16; I've found even with 8 and 9 speed systems 
> that sometimes adjacent cogs, chosen at random, don't play well together. 
> I'll also replace the 21, 23, and 26 big cogs with 22, 24, and 27. (The 
> cluster is presently 14-15-16-17-18-19-20-21-23-26, for 86" to 46" in the 
> 42 large ring.)
>
> 2. I don't know if it is because Yokuzuna housing is better than Jagwire, 
> or because I removed the interrupter lever interface, but man! I thought 
> that my 2016 Road BB7s pulled by Shimano aero levers with Tektro 
> interrputers were nice, but the new setup is without exaggeration 
> wonderful. I removed the interrupters and replaced the Jagwire with 
> Yokuzuna, taking care to prep the ends of the housing. (The Jagwire was 
> installed by a good mechanic at a high end shop, so I assume he did it 
> right.)
>
> No pad rub; absolutely no spongy feel -- the levers feel "tighter" than 
> those on my Rivs pulling top quality single pivots with salmons; and I will 
> have to *back the calipers off* by one click per side per caliper in 
> order to get enough lever travel for comfort. As it is, the levers don't 
> move enough for the best control.
>
> Isn't that something? I think so. Klampers and Spyres may be better, but I 
> certainly don't need them!
>
>
> -- 
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, New Mexico, Vereinigte Staaten
> **
> **
> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a 
> circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and 
> individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>
> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the 
> world revolves.) *Carthusian motto
>
> *It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart
>
> *Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle
>
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction shifting 10 cogs; Road BB7 disc brakes with Yokuzuna

[Patrick Moore]

Of course, I forgot to add that the braking is as powerful as any caliper,
side or center, that I've used, and they modulate quite well, though
modulation control will be easier with more lever travel.

On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 1:44 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

>
> 2. I don't know if it is because Yokuzuna housing is better than Jagwire,
> or because I removed the interrupter lever interface, but man! I thought
> that my 2016 Road BB7s pulled by Shimano aero levers with Tektro
> interrputers were nice, but the new setup is without exaggeration
> wonderful. I removed the interrupters and replaced the Jagwire with
> Yokuzuna, taking care to prep the ends of the housing. (The Jagwire was
> installed by a good mechanic at a high end shop, so I assume he did it
> right.)
>
> No pad rub; absolutely no spongy feel -- the levers feel "tighter" than
> those on my Rivs pulling top quality single pivots with salmons; and I will
> have to *back the calipers off* by one click per side per caliper in
> order to get enough lever travel for comfort. As it is, the levers don't
> move enough for the best control.
>
> Isn't that something? I think so. Klampers and Spyres may be better, but I
> certainly don't need them!
>
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [RBW] Re: Friction solvdes S3X shifting problem.

[EGNolan]

Love the diaga-cable. I hope it works out for ya.

Best,
Eric


>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [RBW] Re: Friction solvdes S3X shifting problem.

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks for the kudos. (Aw, shucks, it tweren't nuthin'. Shuffle shuffle,
sniff.)

The lash is annoying. I rode the S3X to church and back this morning, and
immediately upon return, took the fixed Dahon Hon Solo to the store: what a
very amazing difference in feel! My first impression upon pedaling the
Dahon was, "is the chain too tight?"

The last is most noticeable when I want to slow, but not stop -- ie, to
retard speed, as when I approach a corner. The lash really creates a huge
"gap" between pedaling forward and back-stopping.

But the S3X wheel will (after I stop playing around with it) be a cheap 'n'
easy and very occasional way of getting hill gears on the fixed gofast for
longer rides, without too much switchover hassle; and for such very
occasional use, I can live with it. The main wheel has a Phil dual fixed
flippy with 15 (76") and 17 (66") cogs.

I cut my handyman teeth as a boy in India and Kenya, when I built various
things without access to the copious generosity of US bike and hardware
stores. I learned from the locals; for one thing, the Raj Brits had left
behind an antiquated technology that almost demanded ad hoc fixes (change
an Indian  householdfuse? 20 minutes and a belt of tools; I've done this,
but often my parents would simply call the Embassy and have a tech come out
to fix things.) Further, poverty meant that they fixed things we would have
tossed long before, and fixed them using the barest minimum of technology.
The rear brake lever on your inferior Rod Brake Roadster bottoming out
before it produces any retarding action? Take a big pair of pliers, and
bend a dog's leg into the down tube rod (which simply acted as a sort of
spring).

About age 15, I made a push go-cart entirely of wood -- wheels of sectioned
logs, rimmed with strips of tin can. I delighted in pushing my brother
downhill on it -- leaving him to his fate. Headlight made from a Twinings
tea tin.) So my "make do" experience is of long standing. (My father put
the annoyed kibosh to my circa 1972 plan to build a recumbent bicycle based
on a main tube made from a long irrigation pipe stolen from the
square-miles coffee plantation that surrounded our house.)

Just recalled: Midnight on a school night. I, sneaked out of the house to
the garage to tinker on my bike. Father, upstairs, annoyed, calling out,
"Go to bed!").

On Sun, Jun 5, 2016 at 2:08 PM, JohnS  wrote:

> Hello Patrick,
>
> Thumbs up on shopping for parts at Niagara Cycle. I get almost all of my
> non-Riv parts from them. They may not always have the cheapest price, but I
> find they have a huge selection. Very good customer service as well. The
> only problem I've ever had was the it can take a couple of days for them to
> ship the parts, whereas Riv and VO almost always seem to ship within 24
> hours.
>
> Nice job on the clamp modification. I enjoy getting into the work shop to
> solve problems like that, working with what's available.
>
> Glad to hear the S3X is working our for you. Are you getting use to the
> back lash? Is it more noticeable in the high gear (direct drive) or the
> lower gears?
>
> Regards,
> JohnS
>
>
> On Saturday, June 4, 2016 at 2:50:01 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> The OEM shifter must be buggered up. I replaced it with a nice old
>> Shimano 600, and it seems to hold each gear in place -- the forgiving
>> nature of the hub makes it relatively easy to find 2nd, and of course 3d is
>> all the way up, 1st all the way down.
>>
>> Shown below in 2d gear.
>>
>> Shakedown ride shortly.
>>
>> --
>> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
>> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
>> Other professional writing services.
>> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
>> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
>> *
>> ***
>> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
>> circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and
>> individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>>
>> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
>> world revolves.) *Carthusian motto
>>
>> *It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart
>>
>> *Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle
>>
>>
>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>



-- 
Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
Other 

[RBW] Re: Friction solvdes S3X shifting problem.

[JohnS]

Hello Patrick,

Thumbs up on shopping for parts at Niagara Cycle. I get almost all of my 
non-Riv parts from them. They may not always have the cheapest price, but I 
find they have a huge selection. Very good customer service as well. The 
only problem I've ever had was the it can take a couple of days for them to 
ship the parts, whereas Riv and VO almost always seem to ship within 24 
hours.

Nice job on the clamp modification. I enjoy getting into the work shop to 
solve problems like that, working with what's available. 

Glad to hear the S3X is working our for you. Are you getting use to the 
back lash? Is it more noticeable in the high gear (direct drive) or the 
lower gears?

Regards,
JohnS


On Saturday, June 4, 2016 at 2:50:01 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> The OEM shifter must be buggered up. I replaced it with a nice old Shimano 
> 600, and it seems to hold each gear in place -- the forgiving nature of the 
> hub makes it relatively easy to find 2nd, and of course 3d is all the way 
> up, 1st all the way down.
>
> Shown below in 2d gear.
>
> Shakedown ride shortly. 
>
> -- 
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
> **
> **
> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a 
> circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and 
> individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>
> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the 
> world revolves.) *Carthusian motto
>
> *It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart
>
> *Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle
>
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [RBW] Re: Friction solvdes S3X shifting problem.

[Lungimsam]

But is has a logo on it...most un-Riv-ish...

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [RBW] Re: Friction solvdes S3X shifting problem.

[Patrick Moore]

Here ya go! $10 cheaper and sold, if not made, in the Yew Ess of A.

http://www.niagaracycle.com/categories/origin8-downtube-shifter-adapter-31-8-28-6mm-black
.

Still looking to trade 

On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 1:40 PM, Lungimsam  wrote:

>  VIA DT shifter clamp with Silver DT shifters.
>
> Got it from an online British bike shop. Comes with a shim for slimmer
> tubed bikes. Total with shipping I think was 26$US or something like that
> iirc. http://www.bricklanebikes.co.uk/via-downtube-shifter-mount
> 
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>



-- 
Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
Other professional writing services.
http://www.resumespecialties.com/
www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
**
**
*The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and
individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

*Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
world revolves.) *Carthusian motto

*It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart

*Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [RBW] Re: Friction solvdes S3X shifting problem.

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks for this -- just what I need. If no one takes me up on the trade,
I'll get one.

In other news: brief errand shakedown ride indicates that all is well. No
hills, but I did try the lower gears. 2nd -- 57" -- feels "normal"; in1st
-- 48" -- I feel a mild "coffee grinder" effect; not so much drag as such,
but a lack of smoothness -- which I daresay implies drag. But 1st will be
fine for seated climbing. 3d is direct, 76".

Man, I wish that they had designed this with a 16% drop from 3d/direct to
2nd, and the 25% drop between 2d and 3d (76, 64, 48). But for a quick fix
for longer rides without too much expense or too much hassle in swapping
over from fixed, it's quite good.

On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 1:40 PM, Lungimsam  wrote:

>  VIA DT shifter clamp with Silver DT shifters.
>
> Got it from an online British bike shop. Comes with a shim for slimmer
> tubed bikes. Total with shipping I think was 26$US or something like that
> iirc. http://www.bricklanebikes.co.uk/via-downtube-shifter-mount
> 
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>



-- 
Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
Other professional writing services.
http://www.resumespecialties.com/
www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
**
**
*The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and
individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

*Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
world revolves.) *Carthusian motto

*It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart

*Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction solvdes S3X shifting problem.

[Lungimsam]

PS- I run it with a Silver Shifter  - bare washer against post. The boss 
posts are too long for the DT shifter tab stops that come with Silver 
Shifters. Works fine.

I don't know about your shifter, though. 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction solvdes S3X shifting problem.

[Lungimsam]

 VIA DT shifter clamp in silver color.
Comes with a shim for slimmer downtubed bikes.
Total with shipping I think was 26$US or something like that iirc. 
http://www.bricklanebikes.co.uk/via-downtube-shifter-mount

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction solvdes S3X shifting problem.

[Lungimsam]

 
Other recipients: 
VIA DT shifter clamp with Silver DT shifters. Got it from an online British 
bike shop. Comes with a shim for slimmer tubed bikes. Total with shipping I 
think was 26$US or something like that iirc. 
http://www.bricklanebikes.co.uk/via-downtube-shift 
 VIA DT shifter clamp with Silver DT shifters.

Got it from an online British bike shop. Comes with a shim for slimmer 
tubed bikes. Total with shipping I think was 26$US or something like that 
iirc. http://www.bricklanebikes.co.uk/via-downtube-shifter-mount 


-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction solvdes S3X shifting problem.

[Lungimsam]

 VIA DT shifter clamp with Silver DT shifters.

Got it from an online British bike shop. Comes with a shim for slimmer 
tubed bikes. Total with shipping I think was 26$US or something like that 
iirc. http://www.bricklanebikes.co.uk/via-downtube-shifter-mount 


-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction solvdes S3X shifting problem.

[Patrick Moore]

If anyone has an easy on/easy off (= hinged?***) clamp type dt shifter boss
for sale or trade, I'd be happy to talk. Problem Solvers has an elegant
one, and there are a couple of decent ones on eBay, but the totals with
shipping will all be over $50.

I have a pair of 7 speed indexed (friction option too) Dura Ace dt
shifters, and a pair of even earlier friction DA dt shifters (in pieces,
but I think I have all the pieces), for either of which I'd make a straight
swap.

*** I want something that doesn't require bending metal for attachment -- a
clamp that can be easily and often removed and installed.

Thanks.

On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 12:49 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> The OEM shifter must be buggered up. I replaced it with a nice old Shimano
> 600, and it seems to hold each gear in place -- the forgiving nature of the
> hub makes it relatively easy to find 2nd, and of course 3d is all the way
> up, 1st all the way down.
>
> Shown below in 2d gear.
>
> Shakedown ride shortly.
>
> --
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
> **
> **
> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
> circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and
> individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>
> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
> world revolves.) *Carthusian motto
>
> *It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart
>
> *Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle
>
>
>


-- 
Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
Other professional writing services.
http://www.resumespecialties.com/
www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
**
**
*The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and
individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

*Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
world revolves.) *Carthusian motto

*It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart

*Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Friction solvdes S3X shifting problem.

[Patrick Moore]

I forgot to add that 15 minutes with a grinder and files turned a clamp-on
bottle cage boss into a clamp on shifter mount. It works very well.

On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 12:49 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> The OEM shifter must be buggered up. I replaced it with a nice old Shimano
> 600, and it seems to hold each gear in place -- the forgiving nature of the
> hub makes it relatively easy to find 2nd, and of course 3d is all the way
> up, 1st all the way down.
>
> Shown below in 2d gear.
>
> Shakedown ride shortly.
>
> --
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
> **
> **
> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
> circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and
> individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>
> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
> world revolves.) *Carthusian motto
>
> *It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart
>
> *Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle
>
>
>


-- 
Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
Other professional writing services.
http://www.resumespecialties.com/
www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
**
**
*The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and
individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

*Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
world revolves.) *Carthusian motto

*It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart

*Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: friction shifting with shimano dynasys rear derailleur?

[Philip Kim]

okay ty! i searched for this and it didn't show up. probably because of my 
spelling of dyna-sys

On Friday, November 13, 2015 at 3:44:37 PM UTC-5, iamkeith wrote:
>
>
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rbw-owners-bunch/dynasis%7Csort:relevance/rbw-owners-bunch/m6CN3NP4Eu8/zBdZ-YHWexIJ
>
>
> On Friday, November 13, 2015 at 1:25:25 PM UTC-7, Philip Kim wrote:
>>
>> i wanted to know if those new SLX / XT 10 speed dyna-sys rear derailleur 
>> could be friction shifted with ultegra bar ends. i know it usually doesn't 
>> matter, but wanted to know if there was anything with cable pull i wasn't 
>> aware about. 
>>
>> i currently use the XT 9 speed rear derailleur fine, but wanted to know 
>> in case I destroy it and these are harder to come by.
>>
>> thnks
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: friction shifting with shimano dynasys rear derailleur?

[Philip Kim]

would it also friction shift the new 11 speed rear derailleurs from 
shimano? like the XTR M8000?

On Friday, November 13, 2015 at 4:17:50 PM UTC-5, Philip Kim wrote:
>
> okay ty! i searched for this and it didn't show up. probably because of my 
> spelling of dyna-sys
>
> On Friday, November 13, 2015 at 3:44:37 PM UTC-5, iamkeith wrote:
>>
>>
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rbw-owners-bunch/dynasis%7Csort:relevance/rbw-owners-bunch/m6CN3NP4Eu8/zBdZ-YHWexIJ
>>
>>
>> On Friday, November 13, 2015 at 1:25:25 PM UTC-7, Philip Kim wrote:
>>>
>>> i wanted to know if those new SLX / XT 10 speed dyna-sys rear derailleur 
>>> could be friction shifted with ultegra bar ends. i know it usually doesn't 
>>> matter, but wanted to know if there was anything with cable pull i wasn't 
>>> aware about. 
>>>
>>> i currently use the XT 9 speed rear derailleur fine, but wanted to know 
>>> in case I destroy it and these are harder to come by.
>>>
>>> thnks
>>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: friction shifting with shimano dynasys rear derailleur?

[Jon Doyle]

It's doable.
9 speed isn't disappearing just yet. The non-dyna-sys 2015 Alvio group is 9 
speed.

On Friday, November 13, 2015 at 3:25:25 PM UTC-5, Philip Kim wrote:
>
> i wanted to know if those new SLX / XT 10 speed dyna-sys rear derailleur 
> could be friction shifted with ultegra bar ends. i know it usually doesn't 
> matter, but wanted to know if there was anything with cable pull i wasn't 
> aware about. 
>
> i currently use the XT 9 speed rear derailleur fine, but wanted to know in 
> case I destroy it and these are harder to come by.
>
> thnks
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: friction shifting with shimano dynasys rear derailleur?

[iamkeith]

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rbw-owners-bunch/dynasis%7Csort:relevance/rbw-owners-bunch/m6CN3NP4Eu8/zBdZ-YHWexIJ


On Friday, November 13, 2015 at 1:25:25 PM UTC-7, Philip Kim wrote:
>
> i wanted to know if those new SLX / XT 10 speed dyna-sys rear derailleur 
> could be friction shifted with ultegra bar ends. i know it usually doesn't 
> matter, but wanted to know if there was anything with cable pull i wasn't 
> aware about. 
>
> i currently use the XT 9 speed rear derailleur fine, but wanted to know in 
> case I destroy it and these are harder to come by.
>
> thnks
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [RBW] Re: Friction shifting and pulleys again

[Jim Bronson]

168 crank RPM???

That sounds slightly insane to me, but to each his own.

On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 5:23 PM, Patrick Moore bertin...@gmail.com wrote:

 My gofast has a 15 t small and a 17 t big (both fixed) with a single 46 t
 ring (and 24 1/2 actual diameter 650C wheels). My ultimate top speed (at
 least on 2 occasions) was 37.5 mph; my typical downhill top speed is 30
 mph; and my typical downhill cruising speed is 25 mph. ~168, 136, 112 crank
 rpm respectively. Flatland cruising: ~18-19 mph 80 to 85 rpm.

 Patrick in the very unlikely event that you cared Moore

 On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 4:05 PM, Jim Bronson jim.bron...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 I have a big ring of 44 and I use the 11 on almost every ride.  I'm
 pretty happy with 44/28 up front and 11-34 in the back, 9 speed indexed
 shifting with Microshift bar end, Deore M591-SGS derailer and HG50
 cassette.  This combination maxes out about 28-29 mph, which is fine for my
 usage.  Smallest gear of 28-34 has not had me walking as of yet.
 (although, I don't count it out on the several 20% grades around here).

 -Jim

 --
 Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
 By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
 Other professional writing services.
 http://www.resumespecialties.com/
 www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
 Patrick Moore
 Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten

 *
 *[I]n exploring the physical universe man has made no attempt to explore
 himself. Much of what goes by the name of pleasure is simply an effort to
 destroy consciousness. If one started by asking, what is man? what are his
 needs? how can he best express himself? one would discover that merely
 having the power to avoid work and live one’s life from birth to death in
 electric light and to the tune of tinned music is not a reason for doing
 so.”*
 *
   -- George Orwell, Pleasure Spots*

 *Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not money,
 I am become as a sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have
 the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and
 though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not
 money, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and
 though I give my body to be burned, and have not money, it profiteth me
 nothing. Money suffereth long, and it is kind; money envieth not; money
 vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, doth not behave unseemly, seeketh
 not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; rejoiceth not in
 iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; beareth all things, hopeth all
 things, endureth all things. . . . And now abideth faith, hope, money,
 these three; but the greatest of these is money. *
 *
  -- George Orwell, Keep The Apidistra Flying*

 --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
 RBW Owners Bunch group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
 email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
 Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.



-- 
Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down!

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [RBW] Re: Friction shifting and pulleys again

[Deacon Patrick]

180 counting both feet (so half cranks,) is perfectly normal. At least in 
the barefoot /minimalist running world, a cadence of 180 steps is normal. 
On a bike, that's three strokes per second -- not hard to accomplish at 
all. What seems insane to you about 168? I imagine on my QB I max out 
around 220 or so and that's when I start coasting. But I've never used a 
computer, just compared it with what I have counted, which is steps per 
minute when running (I don't anymore, I was just curious where I was. 
180-200 steps when running). 

With abandon,
Patrick (We do care about speed and cadence and gearing so don't feel 
despondent Patrick) Jones. Grin.

On Tuesday, December 16, 2014 7:21:32 AM UTC-7, Jim Bronson wrote:

 168 crank RPM???

 That sounds slightly insane to me, but to each his own.

 On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 5:23 PM, Patrick Moore bert...@gmail.com 
 javascript: wrote:

 My gofast has a 15 t small and a 17 t big (both fixed) with a single 46 t 
 ring (and 24 1/2 actual diameter 650C wheels). My ultimate top speed (at 
 least on 2 occasions) was 37.5 mph; my typical downhill top speed is 30 
 mph; and my typical downhill cruising speed is 25 mph. ~168, 136, 112 crank 
 rpm respectively. Flatland cruising: ~18-19 mph 80 to 85 rpm.

 Patrick in the very unlikely event that you cared Moore

 On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 4:05 PM, Jim Bronson jim.b...@gmail.com 
 javascript: wrote:

 I have a big ring of 44 and I use the 11 on almost every ride.  I'm 
 pretty happy with 44/28 up front and 11-34 in the back, 9 speed indexed 
 shifting with Microshift bar end, Deore M591-SGS derailer and HG50 
 cassette.  This combination maxes out about 28-29 mph, which is fine for my 
 usage.  Smallest gear of 28-34 has not had me walking as of yet.  
 (although, I don't count it out on the several 20% grades around here).

 -Jim

 -- 
 Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
 By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
 Other professional writing services.
 http://www.resumespecialties.com/
 www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
 Patrick Moore
 Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten

 *
 *[I]n exploring the physical universe man has made no attempt to explore 
 himself. Much of what goes by the name of pleasure is simply an effort to 
 destroy consciousness. If one started by asking, what is man? what are his 
 needs? how can he best express himself? one would discover that merely 
 having the power to avoid work and live one’s life from birth to death in 
 electric light and to the tune of tinned music is not a reason for doing 
 so.”*
 *
 -- George Orwell, Pleasure Spots*

 *Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not 
 money, I am become as a sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I 
 have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; 
 and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not 
 money, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and 
 though I give my body to be burned, and have not money, it profiteth me 
 nothing. Money suffereth long, and it is kind; money envieth not; money 
 vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, doth not behave unseemly, seeketh 
 not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; rejoiceth not in 
 iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; beareth all things, hopeth all 
 things, endureth all things. . . . And now abideth faith, hope, money, 
 these three; but the greatest of these is money. *
 *
-- George Orwell, Keep The Apidistra Flying*
  
 -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 RBW Owners Bunch group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
 email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:.
 To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com 
 javascript:.
 Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.



 -- 
 Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down!
  

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [RBW] Re: Friction shifting and pulleys again

[Jim Bronson]

Maybe insane is not the right word?  How about un-fun?

I don't know, it's hard for me to imagine the unabridged joy of a long
descent in the mid-upper 30s with legs pulsating not unlike a sewing
machine.  Just seems to me like it would take all the fun out of it.

I've seen it before though, was doing Bike Tour of Colorado in 2006 and saw
some fixie transcontinentals going downhill on US50 while I was slowly
going uphill the other direction.  They were pedaling really, really,
REALLY fast.

Man we are way off topic here.  Haha.

-Jim

On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 8:39 AM, Deacon Patrick lamontg...@mac.com wrote:

 180 counting both feet (so half cranks,) is perfectly normal. At least in
 the barefoot /minimalist running world, a cadence of 180 steps is normal.
 On a bike, that's three strokes per second -- not hard to accomplish at
 all. What seems insane to you about 168? I imagine on my QB I max out
 around 220 or so and that's when I start coasting. But I've never used a
 computer, just compared it with what I have counted, which is steps per
 minute when running (I don't anymore, I was just curious where I was.
 180-200 steps when running).

 With abandon,
 Patrick (We do care about speed and cadence and gearing so don't feel
 despondent Patrick) Jones. Grin.

 On Tuesday, December 16, 2014 7:21:32 AM UTC-7, Jim Bronson wrote:

 168 crank RPM???

 That sounds slightly insane to me, but to each his own.

 On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 5:23 PM, Patrick Moore bert...@gmail.com wrote:

 My gofast has a 15 t small and a 17 t big (both fixed) with a single 46
 t ring (and 24 1/2 actual diameter 650C wheels). My ultimate top speed (at
 least on 2 occasions) was 37.5 mph; my typical downhill top speed is 30
 mph; and my typical downhill cruising speed is 25 mph. ~168, 136, 112 crank
 rpm respectively. Flatland cruising: ~18-19 mph 80 to 85 rpm.

 Patrick in the very unlikely event that you cared Moore

 On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 4:05 PM, Jim Bronson jim.b...@gmail.com wrote:

 I have a big ring of 44 and I use the 11 on almost every ride.  I'm
 pretty happy with 44/28 up front and 11-34 in the back, 9 speed indexed
 shifting with Microshift bar end, Deore M591-SGS derailer and HG50
 cassette.  This combination maxes out about 28-29 mph, which is fine for my
 usage.  Smallest gear of 28-34 has not had me walking as of yet.
 (although, I don't count it out on the several 20% grades around here).

 -Jim

 --
 Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
 By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
 Other professional writing services.
 http://www.resumespecialties.com/
 www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
 Patrick Moore
 Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten

 *
 *[I]n exploring the physical universe man has made no attempt to explore
 himself. Much of what goes by the name of pleasure is simply an effort to
 destroy consciousness. If one started by asking, what is man? what are his
 needs? how can he best express himself? one would discover that merely
 having the power to avoid work and live one’s life from birth to death in
 electric light and to the tune of tinned music is not a reason for doing
 so.”*
 *
 -- George Orwell, Pleasure Spots*

 *Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not
 money, I am become as a sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I
 have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge;
 and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not
 money, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and
 though I give my body to be burned, and have not money, it profiteth me
 nothing. Money suffereth long, and it is kind; money envieth not; money
 vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, doth not behave unseemly, seeketh
 not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; rejoiceth not in
 iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; beareth all things, hopeth all
 things, endureth all things. . . . And now abideth faith, hope, money,
 these three; but the greatest of these is money. *
 *
-- George Orwell, Keep The Apidistra Flying*

 --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
 Groups RBW Owners Bunch group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
 an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
 To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
 Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.



 --
 Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down!

  --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
 RBW Owners Bunch group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
 email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
 Visit this 

Re: [RBW] Re: Friction shifting and pulleys again

[Patrick Moore]

168 rpm at the crank isn't fun at all, except to boast about; and even then
it's not all that boast-worthy: others reach much higher r's pm. But
112-120 isn't hard at all to maintain -- I used to maintain that -- well,
104 -- 112 actually -- in flatland cruising back in the days when I was
young and supple and could maintain 20+ mph in my favorite 64-65 gear.
That was before riding fixed made me into a masher.

On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 7:45 AM, Jim Bronson jim.bron...@gmail.com wrote:

 Maybe insane is not the right word?  How about un-fun?

 I don't know, it's hard for me to imagine the unabridged joy of a long
 descent in the mid-upper 30s with legs pulsating not unlike a sewing
 machine.  Just seems to me like it would take all the fun out of it.

 I've seen it before though, was doing Bike Tour of Colorado in 2006 and
 saw some fixie transcontinentals going downhill on US50 while I was slowly
 going uphill the other direction.  They were pedaling really, really,
 REALLY fast.

 Man we are way off topic here.  Haha.

 -Jim

 On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 8:39 AM, Deacon Patrick lamontg...@mac.com
 wrote:

 180 counting both feet (so half cranks,) is perfectly normal. At least in
 the barefoot /minimalist running world, a cadence of 180 steps is normal.
 On a bike, that's three strokes per second -- not hard to accomplish at
 all. What seems insane to you about 168? I imagine on my QB I max out
 around 220 or so and that's when I start coasting. But I've never used a
 computer, just compared it with what I have counted, which is steps per
 minute when running (I don't anymore, I was just curious where I was.
 180-200 steps when running).

 With abandon,
 Patrick (We do care about speed and cadence and gearing so don't feel
 despondent Patrick) Jones. Grin.

 On Tuesday, December 16, 2014 7:21:32 AM UTC-7, Jim Bronson wrote:

 168 crank RPM???

 That sounds slightly insane to me, but to each his own.

 On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 5:23 PM, Patrick Moore bert...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 My gofast has a 15 t small and a 17 t big (both fixed) with a single 46
 t ring (and 24 1/2 actual diameter 650C wheels). My ultimate top speed (at
 least on 2 occasions) was 37.5 mph; my typical downhill top speed is 30
 mph; and my typical downhill cruising speed is 25 mph. ~168, 136, 112 crank
 rpm respectively. Flatland cruising: ~18-19 mph 80 to 85 rpm.

 Patrick in the very unlikely event that you cared Moore

 On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 4:05 PM, Jim Bronson jim.b...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 I have a big ring of 44 and I use the 11 on almost every ride.  I'm
 pretty happy with 44/28 up front and 11-34 in the back, 9 speed indexed
 shifting with Microshift bar end, Deore M591-SGS derailer and HG50
 cassette.  This combination maxes out about 28-29 mph, which is fine for 
 my
 usage.  Smallest gear of 28-34 has not had me walking as of yet.
 (although, I don't count it out on the several 20% grades around here).

 -Jim

 --
 Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
 By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
 Other professional writing services.
 http://www.resumespecialties.com/
 www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
 Patrick Moore
 Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten

 *
 *[I]n exploring the physical universe man has made no attempt to
 explore himself. Much of what goes by the name of pleasure is simply an
 effort to destroy consciousness. If one started by asking, what is man?
 what are his needs? how can he best express himself? one would discover
 that merely having the power to avoid work and live one’s life from birth
 to death in electric light and to the tune of tinned music is not a reason
 for doing so.”*
 *
   -- George Orwell, Pleasure Spots*

 *Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not
 money, I am become as a sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I
 have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge;
 and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not
 money, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and
 though I give my body to be burned, and have not money, it profiteth me
 nothing. Money suffereth long, and it is kind; money envieth not; money
 vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, doth not behave unseemly, seeketh
 not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; rejoiceth not in
 iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; beareth all things, hopeth all
 things, endureth all things. . . . And now abideth faith, hope, money,
 these three; but the greatest of these is money. *
 *
  -- George Orwell, Keep The Apidistra Flying*

 --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
 Groups RBW Owners Bunch group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
 an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
 To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.