subject:"\[RBW\] Re\: In theory\: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD"

[RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

2012-09-30 Thread RoadieRyan

I say if you can dream it build it.  There may be less expensive ways to do 
it as others have pointed out, most notably the Alfine 11 speed IGH, but 
part of the fun of bikes and gear is coming up with off the wall 
applications.

I recently converted my Handsome Devil from a Sugino Triple 46/36/26 with 8 
speed cassette to a single 34t with 9 speed 11x34 cassette.  It works great 
in my hilly area of Seattle and gives me a nice simple bike when I just 
want to hope on and go.  One Derailleur, one shifter (Friction bar end)  
one chainring.  So far I have had no chain drop issues which I was warned 
by a LBS owner was a big draw back of of 1x9's. of course I think he was 
just trying to selling me on a IGH.  I have a Paul Chain keeper but I 
haven't gotten around to installing because its just hasn't been 
necessary.  

Whatever you do have fun with the build and of course post some pics.

Ryan

On Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:57:13 AM UTC-7, James Warren wrote:


 I'm pretty sure that the new Riv model with no cable stop for front 
 shifting (and hence no easy way to do a FD) would be a great candidate the 
 new cogs that SRAM is coming out with: 11 speed cluster in the rear with 42 
 as the largest one and only one chainring in the front.

 You could do 34 or 32 as your single front chainring and still pretty much 
 have a lowest gear suitable for touring. With a 32 in front, the 32/42 low 
 would be very similar to a 24T granny combined with 32T rear cog. With a 34 
 in front, the 34/42 low would be a bit easier than a 24/29.

 The lack of large outer chainring would provide good real estate for a 
 pants guard. Also, I've been riding my 1x11 Alfine QB a lot lately, and 
 it's nice to have a wide gear range and no FD. Just a bit less complication 
 and a beautiful bare seat tube when you look down. I think it would be even 
 better with a rear derailleur instead of IGH.

 Such a bike would be really sweet.

 -Jim W.



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Re: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

2012-09-28 Thread Montclair BobbyB

Back when the mystery bike was still a mystery, Grant had thrown out a
clue, which I had wrongly guessed as meaning the inclusion of a
Hammerschmidt 2-speed derailleur-less crankset. Well I wonder now
whether it might not be a bad experiment to try out the FSA Metropolis
Patterson crank on the mystery bike, since it requires no special ISG tab.
In fact I just ordered a Metropolis crank for my SimpleOne, since I live
atop an intense Alp-d'huez-like climb...* (maybe I'll have to rename it
SimpleTwo.) *

So to my good buddy Tom A, if you would like (before I toss it on the S1),
we can try out the Metropolis on your MB... let me know; once I get that
tiger-blood climbing gear on Charlie Sheen, I may never give it up...

Peace,
BB

On Thursday, September 27, 2012 9:42:13 PM UTC-4, Tom M wrote:

I've run a 1/7 setup before, but this has greater range and closer ratios.
But it's all way outside my price range, so it's either my single speed or
downtube shifters on my old road bike.
--Tom

On Wednesday, September 26, 2012 7:42:11 PM UTC-4, Peter M wrote:

I run an alfine on my bombadil and it is really nice not having to worry
about dropping a chain or missing a gear, being able to shift at a light
and not having to worry about the elements on the rear wheel. I know they
have thier haters but I think when people give it a shot they seem to like
them.

On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 7:18 PM, James Warren jimcw...@earthlink.netwrote:

Shifting gears while the bike is stopped and your feet are on the ground
is a nice benefit. Really helps a lot in traffic.

And a straight chain path with no rear derailleur to run through is nice
as well.

Additionally, as Doug mentioned, there is the gear range issue. Rohloff
for sure and I believe Alfine 11 provide a broader range than 10-42 would.
But reason 1 is the biggest benefit.

-Original Message-
From: Steve Palincsar pali...@his.com

Why would a wide-range IGH be better than a single-chainring wide range
derailleur bike?

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Re: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

2012-09-28 Thread Allingham II, Thomas J

 The gear range from the cassette in back is enough at least for now for my 
contemplated usage of the Mystery Bike (which shall henceforth be known as the 
Dasher Hammett), Bobby, so install away on your SO.  But interestingly, while 
riding with Grant yesterday at the College Park ride, I asked him what the one 
big choice was that he had mentioned in early Blug entries on the Mystery 
Bike.  At first he didn't remember, then quickly recalled that they had been 
thinking of offering an IGH option -- discarded because too few fold know how 
to work on them.

I might still try one on mine someday.

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 28, 2012, at 3:13 PM, Montclair BobbyB 
montclairbob...@gmail.commailto:montclairbob...@gmail.com wrote:

Back when the mystery bike was still a mystery, Grant had thrown out a clue, 
which I had wrongly guessed as meaning the inclusion of a Hammerschmidt 
2-speed derailleur-less crankset.  Well I wonder now whether it might not be a 
bad experiment to try out the FSA Metropolis Patterson crank on the mystery 
bike, since it requires no special ISG tab.  In fact I just ordered a 
Metropolis crank for my SimpleOne, since I live atop an intense Alp-d'huez-like 
climb... (maybe I'll have to rename it SimpleTwo.)

So to my good buddy Tom A, if you would like (before I toss it on the S1), we 
can try out the Metropolis on your MB...  let me know; once I get that 
tiger-blood climbing gear on Charlie Sheen, I may never give it up...

Peace,
BB

On Thursday, September 27, 2012 9:42:13 PM UTC-4, Tom M wrote:
I'm really kind of intrigued by the 1x11. From what I've read, it's a whole 
system — special front crankset with the teeth shaped so that no chain catcher 
is required, and the RD is new as well, moving differently than typical 
derailers. This link has some details: 
http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/08/17/first-ride-impressions-and-tech-breakdown-of-the-new-1x11-sram-xx1-drivetrain/.
 I've run a 1/7 setup before, but this has greater range and closer ratios. But 
it's all way outside my price range, so it's either my single speed or downtube 
shifters on my old road bike.
--Tom

On Wednesday, September 26, 2012 7:42:11 PM UTC-4, Peter M wrote:
I run an alfine on my bombadil and it is really nice not having to worry about 
dropping a chain or missing a gear, being able to shift at a light and not 
having to worry about the elements on the rear wheel. I know they have thier 
haters but I think when people give it a shot they seem to like them.

On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 7:18 PM, James Warren jimcw...@earthlink.net wrote:

Shifting gears while the bike is stopped and your feet are on the ground is a 
nice benefit. Really helps a lot in traffic.

And a straight chain path with no rear derailleur to run through is nice as 
well.

Additionally, as Doug mentioned, there is the gear range issue. Rohloff for 
sure and I believe Alfine 11 provide a broader range than 10-42 would. But 
reason 1 is the biggest benefit.


-Original Message-
From: Steve Palincsar pali...@his.com

Why would a wide-range IGH be better than a single-chainring wide range
derailleur bike?



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Re: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

2012-09-28 Thread James Warren


Whoah! That's really interesting. Also, Tom, your bike looks awesome! And even though I'm the one who brought up the SRAM 1x11 thing, I'm pretty sure now that (partlyas a result ofthe discussion from this fineforum) that I would choose Alfine 11 over SRAM derailleur 11.
-Original Message- From: "Allingham II, Thomas J" 
But interestingly, while riding with Grant yesterday at the College Park ride, I asked him what the "one big choice" was that he had mentioned in early Blug entries on the Mystery Bike. At first he didn't remember, then quickly recalled that they had been thinking of offering an IGH option -- discarded because too few fold know how to work on them.




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Re: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

2012-09-27 Thread Tom M

I've run a 1/7 setup before, but this has greater range and closer ratios.
But it's all way outside my price range, so it's either my single speed or
downtube shifters on my old road bike.
--Tom

On Wednesday, September 26, 2012 7:42:11 PM UTC-4, Peter M wrote:

On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 7:18 PM, James Warren
jimcw...@earthlink.netjavascript:
wrote:

Shifting gears while the bike is stopped and your feet are on the ground
is a nice benefit. Really helps a lot in traffic.

And a straight chain path with no rear derailleur to run through is nice
as well.

Additionally, as Doug mentioned, there is the gear range issue. Rohloff
for sure and I believe Alfine 11 provide a broader range than 10-42 would.
But reason 1 is the biggest benefit.

-Original Message-
From: Steve Palincsar pali...@his.com javascript:

Why would a wide-range IGH be better than a single-chainring wide range
derailleur bike?

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Re: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

2012-09-27 Thread PATRICK MOORE

Interesting and doubtless silly-expensive. I'd like to know the proposed
price of those one-piece cassettes. The idea is good, but I wish they'd put
that RD into cheaper, wider-range (500%+) and more efficient internal
geared hubs instead of ever more complex and expensive -- and finicky?
Don't know -- multi-cog drivetrains. ...Tho' of course hub gears are always
more complex than any derailleur system; OTOH again, it's all inside a
shell.

I personally would like to steal the 42 and RD, but beyond that a 1X8 or 9
would be ideal. Wonder if the rd would work with Silvers?

On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:42 PM, Tom M tommil...@me.com wrote:

I'm really kind of intrigued by the 1x11. From what I've read, it's a
whole system — special front crankset with the teeth shaped so that no
chain catcher is required, and the RD is new as well, moving differently
than typical derailers. This link has some details:
http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/08/17/first-ride-impressions-and-tech-breakdown-of-the-new-1x11-sram-xx1-drivetrain/.
I've run a 1/7 setup before, but this has greater range and closer ratios.
But it's all way outside my price range, so it's either my single speed or
downtube shifters on my old road bike.
--Tom

On Wednesday, September 26, 2012 7:42:11 PM UTC-4, Peter M wrote:

On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 7:18 PM, James Warren jimcw...@earthlink.netwrote:

Shifting gears while the bike is stopped and your feet are on the ground
is a nice benefit. Really helps a lot in traffic.

And a straight chain path with no rear derailleur to run through is nice
as well.

Additionally, as Doug mentioned, there is the gear range issue. Rohloff
for sure and I believe Alfine 11 provide a broader range than 10-42 would.
But reason 1 is the biggest benefit.

-Original Message-
From: Steve Palincsar pali...@his.com

Why would a wide-range IGH be better than a single-chainring wide range
derailleur bike?

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Re: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

2012-09-27 Thread Steve Palincsar

On Thu, 2012-09-27 at 19:59 -0600, PATRICK MOORE wrote:
 Interesting and doubtless silly-expensive. I'd like to know the
 proposed price of those one-piece cassettes. 

I saw $450 ea mentioned on the VSalon forum, IIRC.  That's one hell of a
piece of change for a wear item.



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Re: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

2012-09-27 Thread Tom M

I believe the cassettes are around $425, and they require a special hub.
You're buying a system, really. It's geared for terrain riding, so a
different market than the Roloff. Lighter, too, I'd imagine.

On Thursday, September 27, 2012 10:00:02 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:

I personally would like to steal the 42 and RD, but beyond that a 1X8 or 9
would be ideal. Wonder if the rd would work with Silvers?

On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:42 PM, Tom M tomm...@me.com javascript:wrote:

I've run a 1/7 setup before, but this has greater range and closer ratios.
But it's all way outside my price range, so it's either my single speed or
downtube shifters on my old road bike.
--Tom

On Wednesday, September 26, 2012 7:42:11 PM UTC-4, Peter M wrote:

On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 7:18 PM, James Warren jimcw...@earthlink.netwrote:

Shifting gears while the bike is stopped and your feet are on the
ground is a nice benefit. Really helps a lot in traffic.

And a straight chain path with no rear derailleur to run through is
nice as well.

Additionally, as Doug mentioned, there is the gear range issue. Rohloff
for sure and I believe Alfine 11 provide a broader range than 10-42 would.
But reason 1 is the biggest benefit.

-Original Message-
From: Steve Palincsar pali...@his.com

Why would a wide-range IGH be better than a single-chainring wide range
derailleur bike?

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Re: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

2012-09-27 Thread Peter Morgano

So for the whole system, cassette, special hub and special
chainring/crankset you are over 1k? That is alot of outlay. Thats almost 3
full Alfine 11 hubs which each last for about 5 years of heavy use.
On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 9:59 PM, PATRICK MOORE bertin...@gmail.com wrote:

I personally would like to steal the 42 and RD, but beyond that a 1X8 or 9
would be ideal. Wonder if the rd would work with Silvers?

On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:42 PM, Tom M tommil...@me.com wrote:

On Wednesday, September 26, 2012 7:42:11 PM UTC-4, Peter M wrote:

On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 7:18 PM, James Warren jimcw...@earthlink.netwrote:

Shifting gears while the bike is stopped and your feet are on the
ground is a nice benefit. Really helps a lot in traffic.

And a straight chain path with no rear derailleur to run through is
nice as well.

Additionally, as Doug mentioned, there is the gear range issue. Rohloff
for sure and I believe Alfine 11 provide a broader range than 10-42 would.
But reason 1 is the biggest benefit.

-Original Message-
From: Steve Palincsar pali...@his.com

Why would a wide-range IGH be better than a single-chainring wide range
derailleur bike?

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[RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

2012-09-26 Thread dougP

Maybe this 1 x 11 equipment will start out at the top of the line 
then trickle down if it sticks.  $425 for a cassette is aimed at some
extremely rich riders.  Is 11 speed chain even narrower thatn 10
speed?  Wonder how friction would work on 11 speed off-road?

When you think about 10 teeth to 42, it's only slightly over 4:1.  A
5:1 range (e.g., 20 to 100) is a nice touring, all rounder range.
So even with that enormous cassette tooth difference, one would have
to compromise at one end or the other.

The single front ring idea seems interesting, but the trade-off seems
a lot more complexity at the back in exchange for a slightly simpler
front system.  Could this be yet another solution in search of a
problem?

doug 8 speed with a triple  I'm sticking with it P

On Sep 24, 4:55 pm, James Warren jimcwar...@earthlink.net wrote:
 OK, well I think I won Dumb Question of the Day today:

 -Original Message-
 From: Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com

 On Mon, 2012-09-24 at 07:05 -0700, James Warren wrote:

  For Red, Force, Rival, or Apex?

 For that XX1.

 I'm kind of amused by the fact that now my knee-jerk thinking about bike 
 parts is such that I no longer make the distinction between road and 
 mountain. I guess that's what 11 years of almost exclusive All-rounder 
 riding can do to you.

 But anyway, back to the point, is SRAM really only going to offer one price 
 level for that 11-speed rear cluster that goes to 42T? If so, that's a 
 deal-breaker. I'd still like to believe that all derailleur systems have a 
 cassette for sale that can be had for around $40.

 Another point: for the SRAM 1x11 to work for a lot of us all-rounder types 
 who like drop bars, I guess it would require a commitment to shifting 11 cogs 
 in friction mode. While SRAM mountain and SRAM road parts are generally 
 interchangeable, I doubt that they'll be making a brifter or bar-end shifter 
 for 11 speeds until their road system pushes over the cliff from 10 to 11. So 
 that means friction for those who don't plan to use the dedicated flat bar 
 shifter.

 So I guess the following sums it up for me: if the 1x11 bike only required 
 the cassette and the RD as special parts from SRAM, and if I could be 
 comfortable using friction bar-end shifting across 11 cogs, and if this would 
 all bring my low gear down to around 34/42, I would go for it...

 ...but not if the cassette is in the hundreds of dollars. That's a bummer. 
 Thanks for the heads-up, Steve.

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[RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

2012-09-26 Thread Matt Beebe

I remember reading somewhere (in the RR?) on the subject of ever-expanding 
cassettes, seven is heaven, eight is great, nine is fine, ten is getting a 
little ridiculous.

To which I would add that  an 11 cog cassette is straight up pointless. 
But to each his own.


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RE: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

2012-09-26 Thread Allingham II, Thomas J

At least for the new model with its horizontal drops, you can use an IGH.  And 
the Rohloff hub gives more than 500% range, better than any cassette, I would 
guess.  Very expensive of course, but the quality and durability match the 
price.  And the Alfine 11 gives more than a 400% range; I've never used the 
Alfine 11, but I understand it's mechanically very like the Rohloff 14 at 
around a third the price.


From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Matt Beebe
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 5:28 PM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

I remember reading somewhere (in the RR?) on the subject of ever-expanding 
cassettes, seven is heaven, eight is great, nine is fine, ten is getting a 
little ridiculous.

To which I would add that  an 11 cog cassette is straight up pointless. But 
to each his own.



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Re: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

2012-09-26 Thread Matt Beebe

I hope to try a Rohloff one day. People who have them swear by them, 
and judging by their huge ratio range, reputation for reliability, and 
other benefits I'm inclined to believe they are well worth the money. I 
could totally see mystery bike owners choosing to use an IGH, but a 
wide-range 11-32 8-speed like Riv sells would probably be my choice if I 
couldn't get a Rohloff. 


On Wednesday, September 26, 2012 5:33:23 PM UTC-4, Pudge wrote:

  At least for the new model with its horizontal drops, you can use an 
 IGH.  And the Rohloff hub gives more than 500% range, better than any 
 cassette, I would guess.  Very expensive of course, but the quality and 
 durability match the price.  And the Alfine 11 gives more than a 400% 
 range; I've never used the Alfine 11, but I understand it's mechanically 
 very like the Rohloff 14 at around a third the price.

  --
 *From:* rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com javascript: [mailto:
 rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com javascript:] *On Behalf Of *Matt Beebe
 *Sent:* Wednesday, September 26, 2012 5:28 PM
 *To:* rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com javascript:
 *Subject:* [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

  I remember reading somewhere (in the RR?) on the subject of 
 ever-expanding cassettes, seven is heaven, eight is great, nine is fine, 
 ten is getting a little ridiculous.

 To which I would add that  an 11 cog cassette is straight up 
 pointless. But to each his own.


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 To ensure compliance with Treasury Department regulations, we advise you 
 that, unless otherwise expressly indicated, any federal tax advice 
 contained in this message was not intended or written to be used, and 
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 tax-related matters addressed herein.
 
 

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RE: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

2012-09-26 Thread Allingham II, Thomas J

I have a Rohloff hub, which I unfortunately built into a 650B wheel for my 
Bombadil -- I've been trying to find a way not to use a chain tensioner ever 
since.  (No particularly good reason; I just think it would look a lot better, 
and I didn't buy the Rohloff chain tensioner when I bought the hub.)  So I've 
ridden it around the block a few times, and that's it.  But you're right -- 
it's hard to find a Rohloff owner who'll say anything bad about them.


From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Matt Beebe
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 5:44 PM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

I hope to try a Rohloff one day. People who have them swear by them, and 
judging by their huge ratio range, reputation for reliability, and other 
benefits I'm inclined to believe they are well worth the money. I could 
totally see mystery bike owners choosing to use an IGH, but a wide-range 11-32 
8-speed like Riv sells would probably be my choice if I couldn't get a Rohloff.


On Wednesday, September 26, 2012 5:33:23 PM UTC-4, Pudge wrote:
At least for the new model with its horizontal drops, you can use an IGH.  And 
the Rohloff hub gives more than 500% range, better than any cassette, I would 
guess.  Very expensive of course, but the quality and durability match the 
price.  And the Alfine 11 gives more than a 400% range; I've never used the 
Alfine 11, but I understand it's mechanically very like the Rohloff 14 at 
around a third the price.


From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.comjavascript: 
[mailto:rbw-owne...@googlegroups.comjavascript:] On Behalf Of Matt Beebe
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 5:28 PM
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.comjavascript:
Subject: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

I remember reading somewhere (in the RR?) on the subject of ever-expanding 
cassettes, seven is heaven, eight is great, nine is fine, ten is getting a 
little ridiculous.

To which I would add that  an 11 cog cassette is straight up pointless. But 
to each his own.



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Re: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

2012-09-26 Thread James Warren


Well, I'm not sure why SRAM designed it since triples are perfectly good.

But given that it is coming out, I know that if I had a bike that was designed 
to not have a front derailleur, I would certainly want all my gearing covered 
with one ring. I do not want to get off to shift by hand or shift with a stick. 
Hence the 42 in back would appeal to me.

But honestly, I don't think I'd buy the Rivendell that doesn't allow front 
shifting while pedaling. (Unless it were a wide-ranging IGH bike.)

-Original Message-
From: dougP dougpn...@cox.net

The single front ring idea seems interesting, but the trade-off seems
a lot more complexity at the back in exchange for a slightly simpler
front system.  Could this be yet another solution in search of a
problem?



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RE: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

2012-09-26 Thread James Warren



The Alfine 11 is great. I have it on my QB. I have several Rivs, and in the pack I think the QB is rapidly becoming my favorite.

It's the first time the bike has the full gear range I've been looking for in my hilly hometown.

-Original Message- From: "Allingham II, Thomas J" Sent: Sep 26, 2012 2:33 PM To: "'rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com'" Subject: RE: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD 
At least for the new model with its horizontal drops, you can use an IGH. Andthe Rohloff hub gives more than 500% range, better than any cassette, I would guess. Very expensive of course, but the quality and durability match the price. And theAlfine 11 givesmore than a 400% range; I've never used the Alfine 11, but I understand it's mechanically very like the Rohloff 14 at around a third the price.


From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Matt BeebeSent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 5:28 PMTo: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.comSubject: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD
I remember reading somewhere (in the RR?) on the subject of ever-expanding cassettes, "seven is heaven, eight is great, nine is fine, ten is getting a little ridiculous."To which I would add that an 11 cog cassette is straight up pointless. But to each his own.
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Re: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

2012-09-26 Thread Steve Palincsar

On Wed, 2012-09-26 at 15:44 -0700, James Warren wrote:
 Well, I'm not sure why SRAM designed it since triples are perfectly good.
 
 But given that it is coming out, I know that if I had a bike that was 
 designed to not have a front derailleur, I would certainly want all my 
 gearing covered with one ring. I do not want to get off to shift by hand or 
 shift with a stick. Hence the 42 in back would appeal to me.
 
 But honestly, I don't think I'd buy the Rivendell that doesn't allow front 
 shifting while pedaling. (Unless it were a wide-ranging IGH bike.)


Why would a wide-range IGH be better than a single-chainring wide range
derailleur bike?



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Re: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

2012-09-26 Thread James Warren


Shifting gears while the bike is stopped and your feet are on the ground is a 
nice benefit. Really helps a lot in traffic.

And a straight chain path with no rear derailleur to run through is nice as 
well.

Additionally, as Doug mentioned, there is the gear range issue. Rohloff for 
sure and I believe Alfine 11 provide a broader range than 10-42 would. But 
reason 1 is the biggest benefit.


-Original Message-
From: Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com

Why would a wide-range IGH be better than a single-chainring wide range
derailleur bike?



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Re: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

2012-09-26 Thread Peter Morgano

I run an alfine on my bombadil and it is really nice not having to worry
about dropping a chain or missing a gear, being able to shift at a light
and not having to worry about the elements on the rear wheel. I know they
have thier haters but I think when people give it a shot they seem to like
them.

On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 7:18 PM, James Warren jimcwar...@earthlink.netwrote:


 Shifting gears while the bike is stopped and your feet are on the ground
 is a nice benefit. Really helps a lot in traffic.

 And a straight chain path with no rear derailleur to run through is nice
 as well.

 Additionally, as Doug mentioned, there is the gear range issue. Rohloff
 for sure and I believe Alfine 11 provide a broader range than 10-42 would.
 But reason 1 is the biggest benefit.


 -Original Message-
 From: Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com
 
 Why would a wide-range IGH be better than a single-chainring wide range
 derailleur bike?
 
 
 
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[RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

2012-09-24 Thread Matt Beebe

Could you just get a clamp-on stop for an FD on the mystery bike? Or is 
there another reason why it will not take an FD (like the angle between ST 
and chainstays or something)? I know it has a very specialized geometry 
for the type of riding/handling it is intended for, but am just curious if 
there really is a limitation preventing use of available FDs or if one 
could be designed/modified for it.  Of course, I'm sure some folks will 
use an IGH on these rigs.   



On Sunday, September 23, 2012 12:57:13 PM UTC-4, James Warren wrote:


 I'm pretty sure that the new Riv model with no cable stop for front 
 shifting (and hence no easy way to do a FD) would be a great candidate the 
 new cogs that SRAM is coming out with: 11 speed cluster in the rear with 42 
 as the largest one and only one chainring in the front.

 You could do 34 or 32 as your single front chainring and still pretty much 
 have a lowest gear suitable for touring. With a 32 in front, the 32/42 low 
 would be very similar to a 24T granny combined with 32T rear cog. With a 34 
 in front, the 34/42 low would be a bit easier than a 24/29.

 The lack of large outer chainring would provide good real estate for a 
 pants guard. Also, I've been riding my 1x11 Alfine QB a lot lately, and 
 it's nice to have a wide gear range and no FD. Just a bit less complication 
 and a beautiful bare seat tube when you look down. I think it would be even 
 better with a rear derailleur instead of IGH.

 Such a bike would be really sweet.

 -Jim W.



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[RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

2012-09-24 Thread Scott G.



https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Y956M8xQ02s/UGBP4ECjJGI/AAM/FWMa3lPft78/s1600/clangers12.jpg
If you are considering a stick, how about a clanger ?
Just a stick bolted to the seat tube.
I have the Simplex on my Claude Butler, 
works great, better than early matchbox derailleurs.
Image from Classic Lightweights.

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[RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

2012-09-24 Thread Jeremy Till

I'm pretty sure the combination of slack seat tube angle, super low BB, and 
long chainstays that angle noticeably upwards from the BB prevents the use 
of a normal FD on the Mystery Bike/HS/Bosco Rubbe.  If you set the 
derailleur low enough to be effective, the cage will hit the chainstay 
before it can shift into the small ring.

This is conjecture from having seen one in person, but I haven't ridden one 
or asked RBW.  The one in my size hadn't been built up when I was there.

On Monday, September 24, 2012 1:17:13 AM UTC-7, Matt Beebe wrote:

 Could you just get a clamp-on stop for an FD on the mystery bike? Or 
 is there another reason why it will not take an FD (like the angle between 
 ST and chainstays or something)? I know it has a very specialized 
 geometry for the type of riding/handling it is intended for, but am just 
 curious if there really is a limitation preventing use of available FDs or 
 if one could be designed/modified for it.  Of course, I'm sure some 
 folks will use an IGH on these rigs.   



 On Sunday, September 23, 2012 12:57:13 PM UTC-4, James Warren wrote:


 I'm pretty sure that the new Riv model with no cable stop for front 
 shifting (and hence no easy way to do a FD) would be a great candidate the 
 new cogs that SRAM is coming out with: 11 speed cluster in the rear with 42 
 as the largest one and only one chainring in the front.

 You could do 34 or 32 as your single front chainring and still pretty 
 much have a lowest gear suitable for touring. With a 32 in front, the 32/42 
 low would be very similar to a 24T granny combined with 32T rear cog. With 
 a 34 in front, the 34/42 low would be a bit easier than a 24/29.

 The lack of large outer chainring would provide good real estate for a 
 pants guard. Also, I've been riding my 1x11 Alfine QB a lot lately, and 
 it's nice to have a wide gear range and no FD. Just a bit less complication 
 and a beautiful bare seat tube when you look down. I think it would be even 
 better with a rear derailleur instead of IGH.

 Such a bike would be really sweet.

 -Jim W.



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[RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

2012-09-24 Thread dougP

I've often thought one of those shifters would be fine. My big ring is 
small enough that it covers most of my unloaded riding.  
 
I recall these shifters from when I first started riding, but in those days 
most doubles were only 5-7 teeth apart and triples pretty rare, with maybe 
a total difference between  3 rings of 14-16 teeth.  Wonder if one of these 
would work on a 22-24 tooth difference?  The issues of BB height, chainstay 
vs ST angle, etc., would still be there.  
 
dougP

On Monday, September 24, 2012 5:20:17 AM UTC-7, Scott G. wrote:

 https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Y956M8xQ02s/UGBP4ECjJGI/AAM/FWMa3lPft78/s1600/clangers12.jpg
 If you are considering a stick, how about a clanger ?
 Just a stick bolted to the seat tube.
 I have the Simplex on my Claude Butler, 
 works great, better than early matchbox derailleurs.
 Image from Classic Lightweights.


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[RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

2012-09-23 Thread ted

I believe that yes you do need their new RD developed along with the
cassette.
Also worth noting is the 10t small cog in back and the 11 sp
spacing, ...
And a special new freehub body.


On Sep 23, 11:22 am, Bertin753 bertin...@gmail.com wrote:
 Really? A 42 t cog? What sort of rear dérailleur can handle so big a one? I 
 suppose that one will need the proprietary SRAM rd?

 That's great news--would allow a 46/34 double with a low in the 20s.

 Patrick Moore
 iPhone

 On Sep 23, 2012, at 10:57 AM, James Warren jimcwar...@earthlink.net wrote:









  I'm pretty sure that the new Riv model with no cable stop for front 
  shifting (and hence no easy way to do a FD) would be a great candidate the 
  new cogs that SRAM is coming out with: 11 speed cluster in the rear with 42 
  as the largest one and only one chainring in the front.

  You could do 34 or 32 as your single front chainring and still pretty much 
  have a lowest gear suitable for touring. With a 32 in front, the 32/42 low 
  would be very similar to a 24T granny combined with 32T rear cog. With a 34 
  in front, the 34/42 low would be a bit easier than a 24/29.

  The lack of large outer chainring would provide good real estate for a 
  pants guard. Also, I've been riding my 1x11 Alfine QB a lot lately, and 
  it's nice to have a wide gear range and no FD. Just a bit less complication 
  and a beautiful bare seat tube when you look down. I think it would be even 
  better with a rear derailleur instead of IGH.

  Such a bike would be really sweet.

  -Jim W.

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[RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

2012-09-23 Thread Matthew J

I like 1 x set ups, but frankly am quite happy with the wide range (13 - 
34) 5 speed Suntour freewheel that I have on my road bike.  Works for me.




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[RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

2012-09-23 Thread Michael_S

Big cassettes/freewheels are not that new back in the early 80's I had 
a steel Schwinn Sierra, one of the 1st mountain bikes. Steel frame, room 
for 2.2 inch knobbies and a 14-38 Suntour drivetrain. It shifted pretty 
good, I recall. 

~mike
Carlsbad ca.

On Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:57:13 AM UTC-7, James Warren wrote:


 I'm pretty sure that the new Riv model with no cable stop for front 
 shifting (and hence no easy way to do a FD) would be a great candidate the 
 new cogs that SRAM is coming out with: 11 speed cluster in the rear with 42 
 as the largest one and only one chainring in the front.

 You could do 34 or 32 as your single front chainring and still pretty much 
 have a lowest gear suitable for touring. With a 32 in front, the 32/42 low 
 would be very similar to a 24T granny combined with 32T rear cog. With a 34 
 in front, the 34/42 low would be a bit easier than a 24/29.

 The lack of large outer chainring would provide good real estate for a 
 pants guard. Also, I've been riding my 1x11 Alfine QB a lot lately, and 
 it's nice to have a wide gear range and no FD. Just a bit less complication 
 and a beautiful bare seat tube when you look down. I think it would be even 
 better with a rear derailleur instead of IGH.

 Such a bike would be really sweet.

 -Jim W.



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Re: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

2012-09-23 Thread Peter Morgano

If they made a bar end shifter for that 11 speed alfine I would be all over
it but I have used the click box before and it is so obtrusive. Alas jtek
takes their time with a product and the bigwigs at shimano has no plans to
make one.
On Sep 23, 2012 7:48 PM, Michael_S mikeybi...@rocketmail.com wrote:

 Big cassettes/freewheels are not that new back in the early 80's I had
 a steel Schwinn Sierra, one of the 1st mountain bikes. Steel frame, room
 for 2.2 inch knobbies and a 14-38 Suntour drivetrain. It shifted pretty
 good, I recall.

 ~mike
 Carlsbad ca.

 On Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:57:13 AM UTC-7, James Warren wrote:


 I'm pretty sure that the new Riv model with no cable stop for front
 shifting (and hence no easy way to do a FD) would be a great candidate the
 new cogs that SRAM is coming out with: 11 speed cluster in the rear with 42
 as the largest one and only one chainring in the front.

 You could do 34 or 32 as your single front chainring and still pretty
 much have a lowest gear suitable for touring. With a 32 in front, the 32/42
 low would be very similar to a 24T granny combined with 32T rear cog. With
 a 34 in front, the 34/42 low would be a bit easier than a 24/29.

 The lack of large outer chainring would provide good real estate for a
 pants guard. Also, I've been riding my 1x11 Alfine QB a lot lately, and
 it's nice to have a wide gear range and no FD. Just a bit less complication
 and a beautiful bare seat tube when you look down. I think it would be even
 better with a rear derailleur instead of IGH.

 Such a bike would be really sweet.

 -Jim W.

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[RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

2012-09-23 Thread dougP

The Italians always do things with a certain flair; I'd like to see
their design.  Walnut or oak is a tough call.

At one point I'd installed a MTB triple on a racing bike with a double
FD,  of course the drop onto the granny was unreliable.  A simple
toe to the chain worked well as long as I planned ahead.  Not so
good if in a hurry.

IIRC, as a youth Marathon Lon Haldeman rode without a FD (it broke or
something).  He would be the expert on reliability  importance of
FDs.  Years ago, he did a story for the paper RR about an exploratory
trip to I believe Peru  I think he set the bike up as a 1 x 7 or 8
for simplicity, reliability  because that was good enough.

dougP

On Sep 23, 6:09 pm, cyclotourist cyclotour...@gmail.com wrote:
 Fine Italian walnut vs. California coastal oak. Please discuss.

 On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 4:36 PM, David Yu Greenblatt 

 david.yu.greenbl...@gmail.com wrote:

  I kind of like GP's original suggestion of shifting with a stick. Has
  anybody tried that yet? An article on stick selection, modification,
  on-bike carrying/storage options, shifting technique, and alternate uses
  would be great for the Riv Reader or Blug.

 --
 Cheers,
 David
 Redlands, CA

 **
 Osama Bin Laden is dead. GM is alive. -- *Joe Biden*

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[RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

Re: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

Re: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

Re: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

Re: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

Re: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

Re: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

Re: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

Re: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

[RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

[RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

RE: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

Re: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

RE: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

Re: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

RE: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

Re: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

Re: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

Re: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

[RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

[RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

[RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

[RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

[RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

[RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

[RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

Re: [RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

[RBW] Re: In theory: New Riv model with new SRAM 1x11 and no FD

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