[RBW] Re: Upgrade to Sam Hillborne from a Surly Corss-Check?

[Andy Beichler]

You are correct, but this Schwinn was built in Waterford.  I also have an 
85 Schwinn Voyageur which is very similar in terms of geometry.  However, 
in terms of finish, there is no comparison.  Make no mistake, the Voyageur 
is a fine bike but it lacks the polish of the Paramount.

On Friday, August 14, 2020 at 3:59:55 PM UTC-4, Mark Roland wrote:
>
> Then again, I believe the Paramount is a Schwinn ;^)
>
> On Wednesday, August 12, 2020 at 9:55:17 PM UTC-4, Andy Beichler wrote:
>>
>> I am curious about the finish of a Sam Hillborne.  I lucked into a 1984 
>> Paramount Touring a year or so ago and got my first up close view of what a 
>> high end frame looks like.  The finish on it is top notch.  The lug lines 
>> are very clean.  No stray file marks or tiny drips of brass (silver?).  The 
>> connection where the seat and chain stays join the drop out are fantastic.  
>> There is no evidence of a plug on the end of it.  I don't necessarily 
>> expect the same level of finish on a Sam Hillborne as I expect on a much 
>> more expensive bike, but I would like to think the finish is better than I 
>> would find on a Soma or Schwinn.  What is the finish on a Sam Hillborne 
>> like?
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Upgrade to Sam Hillborne from a Surly Corss-Check?

[Robert Hakim]

It seems many of the points I would raise to answer your question have 
tactfully been answered my most other members. 

Having owned a CX check and the Hillborne I will echo that I was more 
comfortable and more satisfied with the ride quality. I never loaded up my 
Sam with bags for a short tour as I did with my old Surly but I have no 
doubts it would perform well over the same set of surfaces. 

Perhaps the only area I feel like the CX check outgunned the Hillborne was 
pushing the bike's limits on singletrack trails. I believe the more 
robust-feeling threadless stem, stiffer tubing, and larger diameter steerer 
tube contributed to the confidence of the CX check compared to a tall quill 
stem on my Riv. 

One last thing I enjoyed about the Riv is the people I met through the 
bike. I had more curious people approach me to talk about it than I ever 
did with my cross check. I did enjoy many of those brief conversations with 
strangers interested in my handsome tuxedo black Hillborne than I ever did 
with my old Surly. 

In short, I don't think you would go wrong by switching to the Sam. 

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[RBW] Re: Upgrade to Sam Hillborne from a Surly Corss-Check?

[Mark Roland]

Then again, I believe the Paramount is a Schwinn ;^)

On Wednesday, August 12, 2020 at 9:55:17 PM UTC-4, Andy Beichler wrote:
>
> I am curious about the finish of a Sam Hillborne.  I lucked into a 1984 
> Paramount Touring a year or so ago and got my first up close view of what a 
> high end frame looks like.  The finish on it is top notch.  The lug lines 
> are very clean.  No stray file marks or tiny drips of brass (silver?).  The 
> connection where the seat and chain stays join the drop out are fantastic.  
> There is no evidence of a plug on the end of it.  I don't necessarily 
> expect the same level of finish on a Sam Hillborne as I expect on a much 
> more expensive bike, but I would like to think the finish is better than I 
> would find on a Soma or Schwinn.  What is the finish on a Sam Hillborne 
> like?
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Upgrade to Sam Hillborne from a Surly Corss-Check?

[Richard Rios]

I've had both. Cross check is a RAD bike. Pros didnt worry about it as much, 
felt a little quicker handeling wise. Funner where quicker feeling handling 
might apply. Cons not as pretty, not as stable feeling. 

Sam H is a RAD bike. Pros bars up higher more easily. Prettier, more stable 
feeling. Less tiring to ride / better comfort. 

So as with anything YMMV. But I wouldnt hesitate to buy either. Both can be 
alot of fun neither is slow depending on tires, setup and your legs. Both lean 
towards durability over light weight. If I had to tip the scales one way or the 
other I'd say this, longer more casual riding Sam. More energetic playful 
shorter rides cross check. Either can do both of course but if I had to pick. 
And I would be very happy either way.❤

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Re: [RBW] Re: Upgrade to Sam Hillborne from a Surly Corss-Check?

[Andy Beichler]

Thank you very much, Rich.

On Thursday, August 13, 2020 at 9:12:42 AM UTC-4, RichS wrote:
>
> Andy,
>
> As a Sam Hillborne and Waterford built Atlantis owner, I can't discern a 
> difference in the nicely done paint, brazing or general appearance on 
> either one. 
>
> Best,
> Rich in ATL
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Upgrade to Sam Hillborne from a Surly Corss-Check?

[Jeffrey S]

"I always felt like I was riding ON a CrossCheck and felt link I was riding 
IN a Sam." - Love that! 

On Thursday, August 13, 2020 at 7:09:55 AM UTC-7, spencer robinson wrote:
>
> I have a Sam and have owned a few Cross Checks.
> They are different bikes. The geometry is different, BB height is the big 
> difference, I think.
> The cross check might be the one bike that has served so many people for 
> different uses. 
> Affordable, tough, versatile.  
> The Sam is a wonderful, well mannered, country bike. I think better geo 
> for getting the bars up etc. 
>
> I always felt like I was riding ON a CrossCheck and felt link I was riding 
> IN a Sam. 
>
> On Tuesday, August 11, 2020 at 10:49:00 AM UTC-4, Jeffrey Sincich wrote:
>
>> Hi all! I am considering finally upgrading from my Surly Cross-Check to a 
>> Sam Hillborne. Has anyone done this, and if so, what are the improvements? 
>> Were you happy you did so? I currently ride a 54cm Corss-Check. I mainly 
>> commute to work, but some short bike tours are in the future. Thanks in 
>> advance!
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Upgrade to Sam Hillborne from a Surly Corss-Check?

[masmojo]

I agree with a couple of points here. 
First the idea and reality of trying to get another bike to be like a cheaper 
Rivendell. I've had limited success with this as well; a CrossCheck, an old 
650B Raleigh Mountain Tour, Kogswell PR and a Rawland Drakkar. Out of all of 
them the Rawland came the closest and actually was better in some ways. But, at 
the end of the day I would have saved myself tons of aggravation (& money) bu 
just biting the bullet and getting a Rivendell!
I also chuckled when I  read the part about riding "ON" a CrossCheck. That's 
exactly how I would describe it! One thing to keep in mind, but just going by 
the name it's obvious the CC was conceived as a cyclocross frame. As a result 
it has a shortish top tube, higher bottom bracket,  short chain stays, etc. 
It's debatable whether it's dumb luck or pure alchemy that it excels at so many 
other uses at all! 
Actually, with a few more years experience under my belt I likely wouldn't do 
the CrossCheck again if I was making a budget choice. I'd go Crust Bombora or 
possibly a SOMA? The Saga and Wolverine's are intriguing options as well.

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[RBW] Re: Upgrade to Sam Hillborne from a Surly Corss-Check?

[spencer robinson]

I have a Sam and have owned a few Cross Checks.
They are different bikes. The geometry is different, BB height is the big 
difference, I think.
The cross check might be the one bike that has served so many people for 
different uses. 
Affordable, tough, versatile.  
The Sam is a wonderful, well mannered, country bike. I think better geo for 
getting the bars up etc. 

I always felt like I was riding ON a CrossCheck and felt link I was riding 
IN a Sam. 

On Tuesday, August 11, 2020 at 10:49:00 AM UTC-4, Jeffrey Sincich wrote:

> Hi all! I am considering finally upgrading from my Surly Cross-Check to a 
> Sam Hillborne. Has anyone done this, and if so, what are the improvements? 
> Were you happy you did so? I currently ride a 54cm Corss-Check. I mainly 
> commute to work, but some short bike tours are in the future. Thanks in 
> advance!
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Upgrade to Sam Hillborne from a Surly Corss-Check?

[R Shannon]

Andy,

As a Sam Hillborne and Waterford built Atlantis owner, I can't discern a
difference in the nicely done paint, brazing or general appearance on
either one.

Best,
Rich in ATL

On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 9:55 PM Andy Beichler 
wrote:

> I am curious about the finish of a Sam Hillborne.  I lucked into a 1984
> Paramount Touring a year or so ago and got my first up close view of what a
> high end frame looks like.  The finish on it is top notch.  The lug lines
> are very clean.  No stray file marks or tiny drips of brass (silver?).  The
> connection where the seat and chain stays join the drop out are fantastic.
> There is no evidence of a plug on the end of it.  I don't necessarily
> expect the same level of finish on a Sam Hillborne as I expect on a much
> more expensive bike, but I would like to think the finish is better than I
> would find on a Soma or Schwinn.  What is the finish on a Sam Hillborne
> like?
>
>
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[RBW] Re: Upgrade to Sam Hillborne from a Surly Corss-Check?

[Jeffrey S]

Thanks! That's going to be too large for me though.

On Wednesday, August 12, 2020 at 8:38:41 AM UTC-7, ☆ Paul ☆ wrote:
>
> Jeffrey,
>
> If you are interested I have a 56cm Sam Hillborne twin-top-tube frame/fork 
> set I'm eventually going to get around to selling. Also have most of the 
> parts to build it up into a finished bicycle.
>
> You probably need a 34cm PBH to fit on this frame, if it's of interest.
>
> Best, Paul
>
> On Wednesday, August 12, 2020 at 10:06:23 AM UTC-4 RichS wrote:
>
>> Jeffrey,
>>
>> As a current Sam owner for five years and before that a Cross Check 
>> owner, the Sam wins hands down for the same reasons others have given here. 
>> If you don't feel the bike will be secure locked up at your place of 
>> employment, then by all means keep the CC as a commuter and the Sam for 
>> other rides and short tours.
>>
>> Best,
>> Rich in ATL 
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 11, 2020 at 10:49:00 AM UTC-4, Jeffrey Sincich wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all! I am considering finally upgrading from my Surly Cross-Check to 
>>> a Sam Hillborne. Has anyone done this, and if so, what are the 
>>> improvements? Were you happy you did so? I currently ride a 54cm 
>>> Corss-Check. I mainly commute to work, but some short bike tours are in the 
>>> future. Thanks in advance!
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Upgrade to Sam Hillborne from a Surly Corss-Check?

[Timothy Hurley]

I’ve had a Sam Hillborne for 11 years and have ridden a Cross Check a bunch of 
times. I agree they are functionally very similar, but the way they feel is 
night and day. There’s nothing bad about the way the Cross Check feels, but the 
S.H. is the most comfortable yet quick bike I’ve ever ridden. It’s like a fast 
moving easy chair. All this being said, Cross Check is a great bike too.

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[RBW] Re: Upgrade to Sam Hillborne from a Surly Corss-Check?

[Andy Beichler]

I am curious about the finish of a Sam Hillborne.  I lucked into a 1984 
Paramount Touring a year or so ago and got my first up close view of what a 
high end frame looks like.  The finish on it is top notch.  The lug lines 
are very clean.  No stray file marks or tiny drips of brass (silver?).  The 
connection where the seat and chain stays join the drop out are fantastic.  
There is no evidence of a plug on the end of it.  I don't necessarily 
expect the same level of finish on a Sam Hillborne as I expect on a much 
more expensive bike, but I would like to think the finish is better than I 
would find on a Soma or Schwinn.  What is the finish on a Sam Hillborne 
like?


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Re: [RBW] Re: Upgrade to Sam Hillborne from a Surly Corss-Check?

[Toshi Takeuchi]

I went from a Surly Pacer to the Homer, and saw a huge improvement in
handling, comfort and enjoyment.  I love Surly products and they are great
for the price (my son is riding a cross-check), but the Riv upgrade is
definitely worth it!

Toshi


On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 10:20 AM Shoji Takahashi 
wrote:

> I'm a third to have made the move from CC to Riv (Homer) many years ago
> now. Riv ride and handling are much better for me.
>
> Good luck, shoji
>
>
> On Tuesday, August 11, 2020 at 12:07:55 PM UTC-4, maxcr wrote:
>>
>> I did this many years ago and never looked back. I had a frankenstem on
>> my cross-check to get the bars where I wanted them. To me the Sam felt far
>> more comfortable and stable, on top of that I outfitted it with fatter
>> tires and a nicer rack which made the bike more functional for things
>> beyond my commute.
>>
>> If you're thinking about it and you can afford, you should do it - I'm
>> confident you won't regret it.
>>
>> Max
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 11, 2020 at 10:49:00 AM UTC-4, Jeffrey Sincich wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all! I am considering finally upgrading from my Surly Cross-Check to
>>> a Sam Hillborne. Has anyone done this, and if so, what are the
>>> improvements? Were you happy you did so? I currently ride a 54cm
>>> Corss-Check. I mainly commute to work, but some short bike tours are in the
>>> future. Thanks in advance!
>>>
>>> --
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Upgrade to Sam Hillborne from a Surly Corss-Check?

[☆ Paul ☆]

It's a really small bike. It's made for Hobbits.

Seriously though, yes, you'll need a 34 INCH PBH to fit on the Sam.

On Wednesday, August 12, 2020 at 1:33:15 PM UTC-4, RichS wrote:
>
> . . .or 34-inches
>
> Best,
> Rich in ATL
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 12, 2020, at 1:19 PM, Mark Roland  > wrote:
>
> 
> If a 34cm PBH is needed to fit this bicycle, you may want to try asking at 
> the little boys and girls table. Unless maybe you were actually thinking 
> 84cm?
>
> On Wednesday, August 12, 2020 at 11:38:41 AM UTC-4, ☆ Paul ☆ wrote:
>>
>> Jeffrey,
>>
>> If you are interested I have a 56cm Sam Hillborne twin-top-tube 
>> frame/fork set I'm eventually going to get around to selling. Also have 
>> most of the parts to build it up into a finished bicycle.
>>
>> You probably need a 34cm PBH to fit on this frame, if it's of interest.
>>
>> Best, Paul
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 12, 2020 at 10:06:23 AM UTC-4 RichS wrote:
>>
>>> Jeffrey,
>>>
>>> As a current Sam owner for five years and before that a Cross Check 
>>> owner, the Sam wins hands down for the same reasons others have given here. 
>>> If you don't feel the bike will be secure locked up at your place of 
>>> employment, then by all means keep the CC as a commuter and the Sam for 
>>> other rides and short tours.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Rich in ATL 
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 11, 2020 at 10:49:00 AM UTC-4, Jeffrey Sincich wrote:
>>>
 Hi all! I am considering finally upgrading from my Surly Cross-Check to 
 a Sam Hillborne. Has anyone done this, and if so, what are the 
 improvements? Were you happy you did so? I currently ride a 54cm 
 Corss-Check. I mainly commute to work, but some short bike tours are in 
 the 
 future. Thanks in advance!

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> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Upgrade to Sam Hillborne from a Surly Corss-Check?

[R Shannon]

. . .or 34-inches

Best,
Rich in ATL

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 12, 2020, at 1:19 PM, Mark Roland  wrote:
> 
> 
> If a 34cm PBH is needed to fit this bicycle, you may want to try asking at 
> the little boys and girls table. Unless maybe you were actually thinking 84cm?
> 
>> On Wednesday, August 12, 2020 at 11:38:41 AM UTC-4, ☆ Paul ☆ wrote:
>> Jeffrey,
>> 
>> If you are interested I have a 56cm Sam Hillborne twin-top-tube frame/fork 
>> set I'm eventually going to get around to selling. Also have most of the 
>> parts to build it up into a finished bicycle.
>> 
>> You probably need a 34cm PBH to fit on this frame, if it's of interest.
>> 
>> Best, Paul
>> 
>>> On Wednesday, August 12, 2020 at 10:06:23 AM UTC-4 RichS wrote:
>>> Jeffrey,
>>> 
>>> As a current Sam owner for five years and before that a Cross Check owner, 
>>> the Sam wins hands down for the same reasons others have given here. If you 
>>> don't feel the bike will be secure locked up at your place of employment, 
>>> then by all means keep the CC as a commuter and the Sam for other rides and 
>>> short tours.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Rich in ATL 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Tuesday, August 11, 2020 at 10:49:00 AM UTC-4, Jeffrey Sincich wrote:
 Hi all! I am considering finally upgrading from my Surly Cross-Check to a 
 Sam Hillborne. Has anyone done this, and if so, what are the improvements? 
 Were you happy you did so? I currently ride a 54cm Corss-Check. I mainly 
 commute to work, but some short bike tours are in the future. Thanks in 
 advance!
 
> 
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[RBW] Re: Upgrade to Sam Hillborne from a Surly Corss-Check?

[Mark Roland]

If a 34cm PBH is needed to fit this bicycle, you may want to try asking at 
the little boys and girls table. Unless maybe you were actually thinking 
84cm?

On Wednesday, August 12, 2020 at 11:38:41 AM UTC-4, ☆ Paul ☆ wrote:
>
> Jeffrey,
>
> If you are interested I have a 56cm Sam Hillborne twin-top-tube frame/fork 
> set I'm eventually going to get around to selling. Also have most of the 
> parts to build it up into a finished bicycle.
>
> You probably need a 34cm PBH to fit on this frame, if it's of interest.
>
> Best, Paul
>
> On Wednesday, August 12, 2020 at 10:06:23 AM UTC-4 RichS wrote:
>
>> Jeffrey,
>>
>> As a current Sam owner for five years and before that a Cross Check 
>> owner, the Sam wins hands down for the same reasons others have given here. 
>> If you don't feel the bike will be secure locked up at your place of 
>> employment, then by all means keep the CC as a commuter and the Sam for 
>> other rides and short tours.
>>
>> Best,
>> Rich in ATL 
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 11, 2020 at 10:49:00 AM UTC-4, Jeffrey Sincich wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all! I am considering finally upgrading from my Surly Cross-Check to 
>>> a Sam Hillborne. Has anyone done this, and if so, what are the 
>>> improvements? Were you happy you did so? I currently ride a 54cm 
>>> Corss-Check. I mainly commute to work, but some short bike tours are in the 
>>> future. Thanks in advance!
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Upgrade to Sam Hillborne from a Surly Corss-Check?

[☆ Paul ☆]

Jeffrey,

If you are interested I have a 56cm Sam Hillborne twin-top-tube frame/fork 
set I'm eventually going to get around to selling. Also have most of the 
parts to build it up into a finished bicycle.

You probably need a 34cm PBH to fit on this frame, if it's of interest.

Best, Paul

On Wednesday, August 12, 2020 at 10:06:23 AM UTC-4 RichS wrote:

> Jeffrey,
>
> As a current Sam owner for five years and before that a Cross Check owner, 
> the Sam wins hands down for the same reasons others have given here. If you 
> don't feel the bike will be secure locked up at your place of employment, 
> then by all means keep the CC as a commuter and the Sam for other rides and 
> short tours.
>
> Best,
> Rich in ATL 
>
>
> On Tuesday, August 11, 2020 at 10:49:00 AM UTC-4, Jeffrey Sincich wrote:
>
>> Hi all! I am considering finally upgrading from my Surly Cross-Check to a 
>> Sam Hillborne. Has anyone done this, and if so, what are the improvements? 
>> Were you happy you did so? I currently ride a 54cm Corss-Check. I mainly 
>> commute to work, but some short bike tours are in the future. Thanks in 
>> advance!
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Upgrade to Sam Hillborne from a Surly Corss-Check?

[RichS]

Jeffrey,

As a current Sam owner for five years and before that a Cross Check owner, 
the Sam wins hands down for the same reasons others have given here. If you 
don't feel the bike will be secure locked up at your place of employment, 
then by all means keep the CC as a commuter and the Sam for other rides and 
short tours.

Best,
Rich in ATL 

On Tuesday, August 11, 2020 at 10:49:00 AM UTC-4, Jeffrey Sincich wrote:
>
> Hi all! I am considering finally upgrading from my Surly Cross-Check to a 
> Sam Hillborne. Has anyone done this, and if so, what are the improvements? 
> Were you happy you did so? I currently ride a 54cm Corss-Check. I mainly 
> commute to work, but some short bike tours are in the future. Thanks in 
> advance!
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Upgrade to Sam Hillborne from a Surly Corss-Check?

[Carla Waugh]

I have had both and I liked them both for different reasons.

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[RBW] Re: Upgrade to Sam Hillborne from a Surly Corss-Check?

[Surlyprof]

I agree with many of the responses, especially Jason’s:
- The Hillborne rides smoother
- The Hillborne tracks nicer
- The Hillborne feels more intuitively responsive

I had a Cross Check with mustache bars for a couple of years as my “discount 
Riv wannabe” and was never thrilled with the ride.  It always felt a little 
dead to me.  I also spent a lot of money trying to make it more Riv-like 
including buying a new fork to get the bars up higher.  That made it look 
ridiculous but was more comfortable.  When I finally bought my Hillborne, I 
regretted the time and money I wasted on the Surly.  I learned a lot about 
modifying a bike, but that was an expensive lesson.  The Hillborne’s ride was 
SO MUCH nicer.  It is much more stable and responsive (without being at all 
twitchy).  It is the most comfortable bike I’ve ever owned.  It could handle a 
slightly wider tire (45s on the Sam, 42s on the CC) .  And, as an added bonus, 
no more toe-verlap.  I had a lot of problems with that on the Cross Check.

Wish I’d just bought the Hillborne first for many more years of more enjoyable 
riding.

John
Niles, CA

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[RBW] Re: Upgrade to Sam Hillborne from a Surly Corss-Check?

[masmojo]

I had a Cross Check and for the money it's really hard to beat.
There's only one thing I really didn't like about it. The top tube was a bit 
short, this really showed itself in the area of toe overlap and you had to use 
a really long stem to run Albatross handlebars. Running fenders was doable but 
only just. On the positive side it was one of the most comfortable bikes to 
pedal, for whatever reason my seat position relative to the pedals was just 
perfect! I eventually took the Albatross bars off and switched to a Jitensa (or 
similar) bar which the second owner kept, were still on it as it passed to the 
third owner & are likely still on it.
A Sam will be a similar bike while being completely different  at the same 
time. It will cure many of the things I found "off" about the CC AND it'll look 
great!

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[RBW] Re: Upgrade to Sam Hillborne from a Surly Corss-Check?

[Jason Fuller]

First off, there's nothing you couldn't do on the CrossCheck that you could 
do on the Hillborne. Both are exemplary do-it-all bikes. But if you did 
make the switch, I can personally attest you'll find that: 
- The Hillborne rides smoother
- The Hillborne tracks nicer
- The Hillborne feels more intuitively responsive

These are a result of the geometry and tubing of the Hillborne that are 
simply superior to the Crosscheck. I love Surly stuff and they share a rare 
trait with Rivendell in that they don't seem to age, but I find their 
tubing selection and geometry lacks the refinement that may not make much 
difference in city riding, but starts to really be noticeable as you spend 
more time in the saddle. 

Ideal scenario I'd keep the Crosscheck as a lockup bike and maybe simplify 
the build, and make the Hillborne the fancy bike. What a great combo. 

On Tuesday, 11 August 2020 at 19:38:56 UTC-7 Nathan Mattia wrote:

> Hello Jeffrey
> This year I finally stepped up and built up a Hillborne after Rivving up a 
> 1992 Bridgestone RB-T, a 1993 Bridgestone XO-2, and a 1983 Specialized 
> Expedition.
> You can read all about and see those pics at 
> PipesBikesandLeather.com
>
> Once I rode the Hillborne, all of those others faded into the memory of my 
> affections. The Sam is that good.
>
>
> On Tuesday, August 11, 2020 at 9:49:00 AM UTC-5, Jeffrey Sincich wrote:
>>
>> Hi all! I am considering finally upgrading from my Surly Cross-Check to a 
>> Sam Hillborne. Has anyone done this, and if so, what are the improvements? 
>> Were you happy you did so? I currently ride a 54cm Corss-Check. I mainly 
>> commute to work, but some short bike tours are in the future. Thanks in 
>> advance!
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Upgrade to Sam Hillborne from a Surly Corss-Check?

[Nathan Mattia]

Hello Jeffrey
This year I finally stepped up and built up a Hillborne after Rivving up a 
1992 Bridgestone RB-T, a 1993 Bridgestone XO-2, and a 1983 Specialized 
Expedition.
You can read all about and see those pics at 
PipesBikesandLeather.com

Once I rode the Hillborne, all of those others faded into the memory of my 
affections. The Sam is that good.

On Tuesday, August 11, 2020 at 9:49:00 AM UTC-5, Jeffrey Sincich wrote:
>
> Hi all! I am considering finally upgrading from my Surly Cross-Check to a 
> Sam Hillborne. Has anyone done this, and if so, what are the improvements? 
> Were you happy you did so? I currently ride a 54cm Corss-Check. I mainly 
> commute to work, but some short bike tours are in the future. Thanks in 
> advance!
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Upgrade to Sam Hillborne from a Surly Corss-Check?

[Mark Roland]

Interesting question. The way it is posed makes it sound as though there is 
a checklist you can look at to compare point by point, then tally it up and 
somehow calculate whether the additional cost is worth it. But most 
bicycles generally don't work in that linear fashion. It truly is the old 
"whole greater than the sum of the parts" cliche. And what is going to work 
best for any particular rider. 

While I've been a customer of Rivendell for a long time, until recently, I 
never had one of their bikes, for two main reasons.First is I like older 
bikes, and I generally don't like buying things new if I don't have to. 
Second, I always felt I could get close to Rivendell ride quality with the 
older bikes.

But in the last, I don't know, 10 years or so, that is probably not as 
true, especially for the Hillibikes and the newer iterations of some of the 
older models. When my Susie's fork arrives and meets its frame and gets 
shipped across the country, I will have 3 Rivendells, all Hillies.

The happy part, while subjective, does say a lot. My Clem L makes me a 
little happier I suppose than my 1984 Trek 830. For no particular reasons 
that could be ticked off a list--certainly not because I paid way more for 
it, or because it's in better condition. A more luxurious, deliberate but 
still plenty peppy ride feel, maybe would describe a difference? The Clems 
are based on old vintage mtbs like the 830, and lots of Surlys take design 
cues from Rivendells.  If there was no Clem L, I would be blissfully riding 
around on my not as nice Trek. 

I'm sure the Surly does everything you could want it to do, and gives you 
some happiness to boot. The Rivendell might give you additional happiness, 
as reported by others here.  As long as you are not constantly worrying if 
it will get stolen or damaged. But that's an inside job! Good luck.

On Tuesday, August 11, 2020 at 10:49:00 AM UTC-4, Jeffrey Sincich wrote:
>
> Hi all! I am considering finally upgrading from my Surly Cross-Check to a 
> Sam Hillborne. Has anyone done this, and if so, what are the improvements? 
> Were you happy you did so? I currently ride a 54cm Corss-Check. I mainly 
> commute to work, but some short bike tours are in the future. Thanks in 
> advance!
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Upgrade to Sam Hillborne from a Surly Corss-Check?

[Shoji Takahashi]

I'm a third to have made the move from CC to Riv (Homer) many years ago 
now. Riv ride and handling are much better for me.

Good luck, shoji


On Tuesday, August 11, 2020 at 12:07:55 PM UTC-4, maxcr wrote:
>
> I did this many years ago and never looked back. I had a frankenstem on my 
> cross-check to get the bars where I wanted them. To me the Sam felt far 
> more comfortable and stable, on top of that I outfitted it with fatter 
> tires and a nicer rack which made the bike more functional for things 
> beyond my commute.
>
> If you're thinking about it and you can afford, you should do it - I'm 
> confident you won't regret it.
>
> Max
>
> On Tuesday, August 11, 2020 at 10:49:00 AM UTC-4, Jeffrey Sincich wrote:
>>
>> Hi all! I am considering finally upgrading from my Surly Cross-Check to a 
>> Sam Hillborne. Has anyone done this, and if so, what are the improvements? 
>> Were you happy you did so? I currently ride a 54cm Corss-Check. I mainly 
>> commute to work, but some short bike tours are in the future. Thanks in 
>> advance!
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Upgrade to Sam Hillborne from a Surly Corss-Check?

[maxcr]

I did this many years ago and never looked back. I had a frankenstem on my 
cross-check to get the bars where I wanted them. To me the Sam felt far 
more comfortable and stable, on top of that I outfitted it with fatter 
tires and a nicer rack which made the bike more functional for things 
beyond my commute.

If you're thinking about it and you can afford, you should do it - I'm 
confident you won't regret it.

Max

On Tuesday, August 11, 2020 at 10:49:00 AM UTC-4, Jeffrey Sincich wrote:
>
> Hi all! I am considering finally upgrading from my Surly Cross-Check to a 
> Sam Hillborne. Has anyone done this, and if so, what are the improvements? 
> Were you happy you did so? I currently ride a 54cm Corss-Check. I mainly 
> commute to work, but some short bike tours are in the future. Thanks in 
> advance!
>
>

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