Re: [RBW] Who’s getting a Platypus tomorrow?

[Mary Franzek]

I have a platypus, mermade, 55 cm. put together in a beautiful package if
anyone is interested.  Rides like a dream.

Mary

On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 9:40 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
jonasandle...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The preorder email was sent out today! Did you read it? Lots of completes
> for sale but only 24 frames.
>
> Set to arrive end of November. Sad you’ll have to wait so long.
>
> Who is getting one?
>
> What color?
>
> What plans for the bike?
>
> I just had a gorgeous 27 miles on my mermaid Platy today. Sublimely
> comfortable. Plenty fast.
>
> Leah
>
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> .
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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[Adam Moss]

Another plus one for the Crust Lighting bolt. I’ve had a riv road, original 
Hillborne, Cheviot, and finally a Hunqapllar which is hopefully my forever 
bike. I recently picked up a Canti Lighting Bolt and it’s a lovely 
complement to my Hunq which is setup as an ATB. The LB is quick and 
responsive feeling and rides great with somewhat upright drops. It rides 
like a cousin to my riv. 

W

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Re: [RBW] Building up a 45cm Clem for a 5'2 rider

[Richard Rose]

Or a longer stem? I have a 135 on my Clem with Bosco.Sent from my iPhoneOn Apr 21, 2024, at 8:35 AM, Igor  wrote:Now that she's had a few rides on the 45cm, we've determined: Seat (vegan wide) was maybe a bit too low, not far back enough. Bars are too close... I set her up with 120mm stem (FW33) with 52cm Bosco. Looks like Choco or Albatross would be similar but not come back as far?On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 10:24:05 PM UTC-4 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:@Igor -As a suggestion you might want to read some of the Gallery of Clem builds on the Rivendell Bicycle Works website for fun.https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/customer-bikes/customer-built-clems-april-24?mc_cid=23650f4213Kim Hetzel. On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 9:28:22 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:I don't have a Clem and have never done a ground-up Clem build, but I did fix a friend's Large Clem Complete when his stock cockpit proved too flexy.  We slammed (slammed == run the stem at the lowest possible height) a Choco-Moose, and that was a night and day improvement.  I'd absolutely start with Choco-moose again if I was doing another Clem build for myself or anybody else.  BL in ECOn Friday, April 5, 2024 at 9:15:33 AM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:That is the stem (FW33) I ultimately chose as well.I agree the Albatross is a pretty decent bar for doing the forward position because it doesn't come back as far as the others but to do it properly you have to concede that that one of the positions won't be as ideal. I use the loscos and they work very well too. If you set it really far forward to account for the sweep back then the forward position is not great to be in for long. If you set it to be comfortable in the forward position the upright is sometimes not great. The losco and albatross counter that pretty well. I never understood the multi position angle that Riv takes but then tell you you need a really long stem to counter the sweep. That puts the forward position way out there. So yeah if you want to use both get one with less sweep and rise/ Thats been what has worked for me.On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 11:19:05 AM UTC-4 Igor wrote:For what it's worth, I tried a Nitto FW33 stem (120mm, too long for her imagine...) and it can be "slammed" in the head tube of this 45cm. I've got all of the spacers on the headset and have not/will not cut the steerer of the fork either. I need to measure the stem quill length.. https://global.bluelug.com/nitto-fw30-power-stem-dull.htmlOn Friday, April 5, 2024 at 10:46:13 AM UTC-4 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:My experience on my Clem is quite the opposite of Garth’s. I do understand that my situation may be unique but it is what it is. 45 degree forward simply does not work for me. Bolt upright is the only way I can achieve a no numb hands position. Going into the wind I will assume a more forward leaning position but I cannot stay there very long. Numbness is almost immediately. I ride my Clem for hours with virtually no weight on my hands. And yes, my saddle is in the perfect vertical & horizontal position relative to the bottom bracket. I have ridden in this position, Bosco’s 2”-3” above saddle height, for 2 years & over 7,000 miles. No numb hands.Sent from my iPhoneOn Apr 5, 2024, at 9:24 AM, Garth  wrote:An Albatoross is best for being in a forward, say 45d angle in a swept back style bar. If you use reverse Tektro brake levers, tape the bar up to and just around the top bend, then put thumbshiters there, that's about a "racey upright" as one can get using 45d body position as a base. All the other swept back bars, with regular MTB levers and grips at the ends, is just all wrong for what I'm referring to as the bars come back too far, requiring more weight on the arms and hands. When you lean forward, with proper forward seat placement in relation to the BB so you're using your legs and core to support yourself(not unlike riding a unicycle), having your arms extended forward exerts less pressure on the arms and hands. I think shallow, wide flared drop bars could also work if more hand positions are desired. On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 9:02:00 AM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:Note when choosing stem (as I see a Faceplater was suggested), the smaller sizes have headtubes that don't go very deep. I face this on the 50-52 sizes. Those SUPER tall stems that Rivendell sells will not go very far in and thus you are forced to have a ton of stem exposed. Couple that with a bar like the Bosco and you will be way way way up with no way to get it lower. Pick up a stem that does not have the super long lengths. Go short even if you have any uprise to it or are planning to use handlebars that also have height. The losco bars are my favorite bars and perfect for a racy upright mix. Also they are the best looking bars that Riv sells (IMO)On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 8:48:53 AM UTC-4 Igor wrote:This is a 2023 45cm Clem. I'm looking at putting her in a somewhat middle between racy and upright. Bosco could work for that I imagine, 

Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[Mathias Steiner]

Hi Leah,

Your thread has generated a remarkable amount of discussion. 

Before I get wordy: you said you didn't know what your 'standover' height 
was... it's your PBH minus whatever margin you're comfortable with. I've 
ridden bikes where that margin was zero, and didn't worry about it, but I'd 
go for around an inch of clearance if I started from scratch. Taller frames 
make it easier to get the bars to saddle height without looking goofy, so 
somethimes a cm is fine, too. 

I'm chiming in because I've been on a similar bent for some years now, 
where every year I grab a bike or frame, fit it up to suit me, and then 
ride it throughout the season, looking for light & fast. 

I would second (third?) Bill's suggestion to look for a used road bike to 
figure out what you like. Nothing wrong with aluminum, either, though steel 
is always classy. If steel, stick with the good stuff, Reynolds 531 or 
Columbus SL/SLX or Tange #1 or ...

Riding drop bars takes getting used to, but I want nothing else for long 
days in the saddle. Three separate hand positions on top, leading to the 
three levels of 'bent over' is good for the back, plus you can hit the 
drops to get out of the wind somewhat.

Before you get locked in on a specific type or model, I would pick a few 
criteria first: fit, meaning how bent over do you want to be, and where do 
you want the saddle in relation to he crank? Next, tires. I'm not far from 
you in Michigan, and I really like tires that are 30+ mm for our crappy 
roads. I would not ride 23s, though 28s are ok on pavement, if marginal for 
light dirt. Weight is a distant third consideration; lighter is better, but 
other than avoiding boat anchors, I wouldn't worry too much about it. No 
gas pipe, no full-on tourers.

I'm a touring bike guy, but my recent experience includes a '97 Cannondale 
R200 (26 mm tires, measured), a 1987 ST600 (30 mm), and a 1981 Motobécane 
Grand Touring (30 mm). The R200 was the lightest, and I liked riding it 
despite the reputed twitchy/criterium geometry, but the  ST somehow seems 
the most eager of all the bikes I've tried. Lightweight and stiff frame, 
'sport touring' geometry, traditional steel fork, and the 700x32 Conti 
GP5000 tires are comfortable and fast and have given me no flats in a few 
thousand miles of riding. The Moto is fun but seems a little slower; I 
think it's the tires -- Pasela 27x1 1/4 vs. the Continentals.

Once you know what you like, you can then properly size whatever Rivendell 
you would like for fast road rides. Given the expense, you wouldn't want to 
guess and do it twice. 

My touring bikes are super stiff, as they should be, and while I like 
riding them, the lively feel of a road bike makes for a different 
experience. I have nothing measured, and I have a hard time describing it, 
or even understanding it. It's not like my Cannondale ST frame isn't stiff; 
maybe it's the fork on the ST that gives it its ride, but a lot of people 
prize them. Alu frames with steel forks were common around 1990, and are a 
good choice. Get thee to bikeforums.net, and you'll find any number of 
models described -- and for sale -- in the classic & vintage forums.

I'm in the process of building 1978 Trek 710 as this year's bike. I have 
high hopes.

cheers -mathias 


On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 11:42:48 AM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:

> *- "Would they love it as a road bike? Or is it kind of all-purpose? 
> Thanks!"*
>
> Rivendell makes stuff to be pretty flexible so even the Roadeo "could" be 
> built out to be kind of all-purpose but the geometry and intent of the 
> Gallop is to be a road frame that replaces the Roadini. My prototype is 
> pretty light and very lively. I assume the production ones will be as well 
> because the geometry should be the same it just has a straight bar vs a 
> swoop. I think while its not a step through the angled bar will allow it to 
> be more flexible with fitting.
>
> On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 11:07:13 AM UTC-4 leva...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hi Leah!
>>
>> I think you would dig a Crust Canti-Lightning Bolt as a complementary 
>> addition to your wonderful stable of Rivs - not only for the ride quality, 
>> but you can get a cool Lilac (with pink graphics) or Light Sea Green frame 
>> in your size now.  I own this bike, and it is light, quick, and fun to 
>> ride, and can easily accommodate up to a 650B x 48 tire.  But wait there’s 
>> more….in older Riv road bike style, the Canti-Bolts have flat top tubes, 
>> threaded headsets, and a gorgeous curved fork.  This is a low-trail Rando 
>> bike for sure - even the 650B wheels, etc.  This is a fun bike!  I’m a Riv 
>> head for sure, but I really enjoy a long faster road ride on the Crust 
>> every now and then.  
>>
>> Crustbikes.com
>>
>>
>> Good luck in your search,
>>
>> Guy
>> On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 7:01:14 AM UTC-6 David Hays wrote:
>>
>>> Good morning Leah,
>>> I’m not sure where I read it but apparently Grant had at one point been 
>>> a fan of 

[RBW] Ordaho, Desert Shenanigans Loop- Trip Report

[Diana H]

This is my trip report for a bikepacking trip I did July 1-8, 2023 in 
Eastern Oregon/Western Idaho with my buddy Mike. I have started and stopped 
writing this trip report so many times because of what a beast it was. I 
put a pause on trying to write this trip report (or to be more honest, I 
had given up). Then I decided to write a small trip report 
 to Death 
Valley I did this past February. All the good feedback gave me the 
motivation to finish this trip report, which Mike and I call “Ordaho, 
Desert Shenanigans Loop”.



 The route: https://maps.app.goo.gl/VjdmMMg1Mk9dEkdx7 (route was based on 
this summary page 

 
from Cycle Oregon).

*Stats*

Total mileage = 15 (Leslie Gulch) + 419 (Ordaho) = 434 miles

Total Elevation Gain = 2,400 + 24,700 feet = 27,100 feet

*Bikes*

·2022 Rivendell Platypus. 50cm, friction shifters, Brooks B-17 
saddle, V-brakes, 650Bx43 GravelKing SK knobby Tires, Nitto Choco 
handlebar, 38x24 crank, and a 9-speed cassette. 

·Salsa Cutthroat (stock parts except tubeless 2.1 inch tires)


*Day 0 – The Intro (July 1)*

I drove from SF and met Mike in Reno, NV. We carpooled together and started 
the adventure with a side trip to Lake Owyhee in Leslie’s Gulch. We biked 
about 15 miles this day to make sure our bicycles were tuned up. Aside from 
learning I packed 2 left-handed bike gloves (lol), everything was pretty 
good. The road is entirely gravel and is all downhill to the lake. The ride 
started out as open planes but turned into gorgeously steep canyons. It 
would be fun to go back one day to do some rock climbing, perhaps a future 
trip! We dipped our toes into the lake and biked up a little ways before 
calling it a night.

Miles – 15

Elevation – 1200 ft


*Day 1 (July 2)*

We woke up early from camp and biked the remaining 10 miles to the car. We 
packed our bicycles and drove to Baker City (about 2 hours away). We were 
back on our saddles by 12pm and were attempting to do 62 miles this day 
(not counting the 10 miles we had done back in Leslie’s Gulch). 

The temps were in the 90’s and we both had a water carrying capacity of 4 
liters. The first 20-30 miles were on nice country roads, however that 
asphalt was *radiating* heat. We looked for places to take shade breaks and 
hid under bridges or next to haybales trying our best to conserve water. We 
did not pass any stores or gas stations.

We hit dirt/gravel roads by around 4pm and had a slog uphill. Trying to not 
fall behind on our itinerary we pushed on and had to make a choice- do we 
become water stressed or do we drink from streams that flow by untold heads 
of cattle? An easy choice, as we eagerly filled our bottles with cattle 
water, bleached it, and carried on.

Once we crested the hill we thought, “We’re finished!” and we cruised down 
on the dirt road. It was one of the numerous moments of blissful decent we 
would experience on this trip. Eventually our path took us through rougher 
terrain where we were peddling on rough jeep roads. There were thistles 
everywhere, but the view made us happy to be there. Sage brush and open 
plains welcomed us. The trail would eventually degrade to bad single track 
but we kept pushing through. There were cows scattered around and we had to 
be careful they didn’t run into us as we peddled by. A few would wait until 
the last minute to dart in front of us. This was a different version of 
Frogger. Luckily we made it through the cows without incident, and summited 
another hill and started flying downhill.

At the bottom of the hill we needed to open a fence and Mike heard a very 
distinct, “tss”. Crap. I had gotten my first flat. It took me about 30 
minutes to patch up 2 holes in my back tire and at this point it was 
getting dark. We kept pushing on but after only a few minutes my front tire 
was feeling squishy. More flats. We knew at this point we wouldn’t make 
camp as night was falling and neither of us had any desire to do night 
riding.

We decided to try to find a place to camp off the road. There were some 
tall grassy areas where we contemplated sleeping in, however when we 
started seriously talking about camping in one of those fields a snake 
slithered across the road into that very area. We decided against the tall 
grass. Luckily, not much further away, we found what looked like an 
unmaintained 4-wheel drive turnoff and we were able to camp there. We were 
careful to still sleep off the trail so nobody would be run over in the 
middle of the night. 

We sleep through the night undisturbed, but we are happy we pulled off from 
the main road as we did here some kids speeding down the road in the night. 
Mike and I both got the feeling that we may not have been left in peace if 
the kids had seen us.

Miles- 10 + 50.9 miles (11 miles behind schedule)


*Day 2 (July 3)*

Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[Johnny Alien]

*- "Would they love it as a road bike? Or is it kind of all-purpose? 
Thanks!"*

Rivendell makes stuff to be pretty flexible so even the Roadeo "could" be 
built out to be kind of all-purpose but the geometry and intent of the 
Gallop is to be a road frame that replaces the Roadini. My prototype is 
pretty light and very lively. I assume the production ones will be as well 
because the geometry should be the same it just has a straight bar vs a 
swoop. I think while its not a step through the angled bar will allow it to 
be more flexible with fitting.

On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 11:07:13 AM UTC-4 leva...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi Leah!
>
> I think you would dig a Crust Canti-Lightning Bolt as a complementary 
> addition to your wonderful stable of Rivs - not only for the ride quality, 
> but you can get a cool Lilac (with pink graphics) or Light Sea Green frame 
> in your size now.  I own this bike, and it is light, quick, and fun to 
> ride, and can easily accommodate up to a 650B x 48 tire.  But wait there’s 
> more….in older Riv road bike style, the Canti-Bolts have flat top tubes, 
> threaded headsets, and a gorgeous curved fork.  This is a low-trail Rando 
> bike for sure - even the 650B wheels, etc.  This is a fun bike!  I’m a Riv 
> head for sure, but I really enjoy a long faster road ride on the Crust 
> every now and then.  
>
> Crustbikes.com
>
>
> Good luck in your search,
>
> Guy
> On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 7:01:14 AM UTC-6 David Hays wrote:
>
>> Good morning Leah,
>> I’m not sure where I read it but apparently Grant had at one point been a 
>> fan of Mercians.
>> A few years after I bought and built up my 650B Homer I found a used 
>> Mercian KOM on Craigslist. I’ve since picked up another off the list and 
>> had one purpose built for me. Very comfortable and fast. Some thing to 
>> consider.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> David 
>>
>> On Apr 21, 2024, at 12:17 AM, Josiah Anderson  
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Leah,
>>
>> I'm also excited to hear about your journey towards a road bike; you 
>> probably don't know it but your writing on this list was one of my main 
>> influences towards ending up with a Riv. Drop bars and pavement are very 
>> familiar, comfortable territory for me, and – like others have said here – 
>> I still enjoy that type of riding at times.
>>
>> You're probably already familiar with him, but if not, I'd recommend 
>> checking out some of Jan Heine's work – Bicycle Quarterly, *The All-Road 
>> Bike Revolution,* his blog, etc. Bicycle Quarterly was my point of 
>> departure from "mainstream" bike culture, and I came around to appreciating 
>> Riv a bit later and now enjoy both approaches for different rides. Jan is 
>> much more focused on speed than Grant is, but in what feels to me like a 
>> healthy way. This is an old blog post that I think may be worth a read, as 
>> it's an articulation of the same sort of perspective you seem to be 
>> arriving at: https://www.renehersecycles.com/riding-fast-is-fun/. Jan 
>> also wrote somewhere (can't find it right now) about how he and Grant are 
>> good friends, and he wanted to make it clear he's not dissing Riv by 
>> promoting what he likes.
>>
>> I currently have two of what I'd call "really nice" bikes, a Gus 
>> Boots-Willsen and a Crust Lightning Bolt (alongside moderately nice bikes 
>> like a Bridgestone MB-3 and a dumpster-find Bianchi Volpe). The Gus is 
>> "full-Riv" – friction shifting, Carradice saddlebag, weird bar wrap, etc – 
>> and the Crust is full Bicycle Quarterly, with 42mm extralight tires, 
>> low-trail geometry, Gilles Berthoud handlebar bag, and all that. (Jan is 
>> not affiliated with Crust, but Crust designed the Lightning Bolt with his 
>> preferences in mind). The two bikes are a perfect combination for my 
>> current riding: there is enough crossover that both work great for 
>> doubletrack rides, and the Gus is ideal for riding singletrack while the 
>> Crust excels at long, fast road and gravel rides. Rivendell doesn't make 
>> randonneur bikes like my Crust, as it sounds to me like they don't like the 
>> lighter-gauge tubing and the handling optimized for drop bars and moderate 
>> front loads, but Grant has written (quoting from memory, so hopefully I'm 
>> pretty close here) that he's glad companies like Crust exist and do 
>> different stuff from Riv. I don't feel like riding my Crust is an insult to 
>> Rivendell, just an expression of the fact that my riding conditions are a 
>> bit different from theirs, though I totally get it if that's how it feels 
>> to you. 
>>
>> I've never ridden a Roadeo or Roadini, but I've ridden a LOT of road race 
>> and "sport-touring" bikes from the 1960s through 2000s, many of which (like 
>> early 80s Trek sport tourers, one of my main rides for a long time) have a 
>> lot of similarities to the Roadeo. I prefer my Crust for several reasons: 
>> it's designed for bigger tires, which when they're René Herse Extralights 
>> are just as fast as 23mm tubulars and far more 

Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[Piaw Na]

I haven't seen the Gallop's geometry,. Can you post it?

As for Leah's original question, my wife rode a Cheviot but after she rode 
my son's Roadini to work a few weeks she decided that she really liked the 
Roadini better.

We're still vainly hunting for a 50cm Roadini, but the other bikes I'm 
considering are the Ritchey Logic Road (max 30mm tires, short chainstays), 
the Crust Malochio (mismatched brakes are putting me off but what's worse 
is that it has 650b wheels in her sizes which limits choice of fast tires), 
and the Soma Pescadero (compromised handling geometry compared with the 
Roadini). We'll probably have to decide this summer as to whether to wait 
for the Roadini or go for a Gallop. One more option is the R Cycles 
Rainier. All of these bikes would be bikes I would buy frame only because 
the Bay Area has specific riding needs that default drivetrains made for 
flat country are worthless for.

On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 8:42:48 AM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:

> *- "Would they love it as a road bike? Or is it kind of all-purpose? 
> Thanks!"*
>
> Rivendell makes stuff to be pretty flexible so even the Roadeo "could" be 
> built out to be kind of all-purpose but the geometry and intent of the 
> Gallop is to be a road frame that replaces the Roadini. My prototype is 
> pretty light and very lively. I assume the production ones will be as well 
> because the geometry should be the same it just has a straight bar vs a 
> swoop. I think while its not a step through the angled bar will allow it to 
> be more flexible with fitting.
>
> On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 11:07:13 AM UTC-4 leva...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hi Leah!
>>
>> I think you would dig a Crust Canti-Lightning Bolt as a complementary 
>> addition to your wonderful stable of Rivs - not only for the ride quality, 
>> but you can get a cool Lilac (with pink graphics) or Light Sea Green frame 
>> in your size now.  I own this bike, and it is light, quick, and fun to 
>> ride, and can easily accommodate up to a 650B x 48 tire.  But wait there’s 
>> more….in older Riv road bike style, the Canti-Bolts have flat top tubes, 
>> threaded headsets, and a gorgeous curved fork.  This is a low-trail Rando 
>> bike for sure - even the 650B wheels, etc.  This is a fun bike!  I’m a Riv 
>> head for sure, but I really enjoy a long faster road ride on the Crust 
>> every now and then.  
>>
>> Crustbikes.com
>>
>>
>> Good luck in your search,
>>
>> Guy
>> On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 7:01:14 AM UTC-6 David Hays wrote:
>>
>>> Good morning Leah,
>>> I’m not sure where I read it but apparently Grant had at one point been 
>>> a fan of Mercians.
>>> A few years after I bought and built up my 650B Homer I found a used 
>>> Mercian KOM on Craigslist. I’ve since picked up another off the list and 
>>> had one purpose built for me. Very comfortable and fast. Some thing to 
>>> consider.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> David 
>>>
>>> On Apr 21, 2024, at 12:17 AM, Josiah Anderson  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Leah,
>>>
>>> I'm also excited to hear about your journey towards a road bike; you 
>>> probably don't know it but your writing on this list was one of my main 
>>> influences towards ending up with a Riv. Drop bars and pavement are very 
>>> familiar, comfortable territory for me, and – like others have said here – 
>>> I still enjoy that type of riding at times.
>>>
>>> You're probably already familiar with him, but if not, I'd recommend 
>>> checking out some of Jan Heine's work – Bicycle Quarterly, *The 
>>> All-Road Bike Revolution,* his blog, etc. Bicycle Quarterly was my 
>>> point of departure from "mainstream" bike culture, and I came around to 
>>> appreciating Riv a bit later and now enjoy both approaches for different 
>>> rides. Jan is much more focused on speed than Grant is, but in what feels 
>>> to me like a healthy way. This is an old blog post that I think may be 
>>> worth a read, as it's an articulation of the same sort of perspective you 
>>> seem to be arriving at: 
>>> https://www.renehersecycles.com/riding-fast-is-fun/. Jan also wrote 
>>> somewhere (can't find it right now) about how he and Grant are good 
>>> friends, and he wanted to make it clear he's not dissing Riv by promoting 
>>> what he likes.
>>>
>>> I currently have two of what I'd call "really nice" bikes, a Gus 
>>> Boots-Willsen and a Crust Lightning Bolt (alongside moderately nice bikes 
>>> like a Bridgestone MB-3 and a dumpster-find Bianchi Volpe). The Gus is 
>>> "full-Riv" – friction shifting, Carradice saddlebag, weird bar wrap, etc – 
>>> and the Crust is full Bicycle Quarterly, with 42mm extralight tires, 
>>> low-trail geometry, Gilles Berthoud handlebar bag, and all that. (Jan is 
>>> not affiliated with Crust, but Crust designed the Lightning Bolt with his 
>>> preferences in mind). The two bikes are a perfect combination for my 
>>> current riding: there is enough crossover that both work great for 
>>> doubletrack rides, and the Gus is ideal for riding singletrack while the 

Re: [RBW] Re: Who’s getting a Platypus tomorrow?

[Steve]

Tio, yep - what RMRose said - Mermaid.   To my eyes it's a light shade of 
aquamarine. I like the way the contrast with the black fenders tends to 
highlight it. 

On Saturday, April 20, 2024 at 12:50:22 PM UTC-4 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> Tio, pretty sure that’s a “Mermaid” colored Platy. Never knew I needed a 
> Mermaid bike until I got one.:)
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 20, 2024, at 12:28 PM, tio ryan  wrote:
>
>  
>
> *Can you tell us more about why the new stem/bar is a pleasant change?*
> I think it's because getting around the city involves frequent stops and 
> starts and I often find myself riding out of the saddle to accelerate. With 
> the tosco and albatross bars, it felt like my hands were behind me when I 
> was out of the saddle and I had less control. When seated, the new setup 
> has me in a more tucked position resulting in a ride that has felt less 
> sluggish. I also had my saddle too low for a while which definitely wasn't 
> helping.. 
>
> It’s interesting to see the variations on the Platypus frames from 
> previous years -- lovely setup, Steve! I’ve been wondering what the 
> official name of that color is. It’s my fave!
>
> -tio in brooklyn
> On Friday, April 19, 2024 at 9:51:29 PM UTC-4 Steve wrote:
>
>> Forgive my photo bombing this thread - but I can't resist. Let's just say 
>> I'm posting in response to Bill so anyone following along will be able to 
>> contrast the new lugged tubes with the older brazed ones;- )[image: 
>> 9E44819D-2EF4-498C-92EE-0E23E73A049F_1_201_a.jpeg]
>> On Friday, April 19, 2024 at 7:03:41 PM UTC-4 schralp wrote:
>>
>>> I just noticed how they changed the transition from the “top” tube to 
>>> the twin rear stays. So different from my Platy. Mine sweep past the seat 
>>> tube and melt into it. Not sure how I missed the design change. Beautiful 
>>> bike and glad it’s getting close to your ideal setup…
>>>
>>> -Bill
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 19, 2024 at 12:43 PM tio ryan  wrote:
>>>
 Hope it's okay to give this thread a bump! I wanted to share how my 
 setup has evolved over the past couple months. 

 Although the previous setup *was* comfortable, I was experiencing 
 fender rub through turns and it drove me crazy, so I removed the fenders. 
 My thinking was I already have fenders on my other 2 bikes and I'd prefer 
 not to commute in the rain with my Platypus, if possible. After removing 
 the fenders, I changed the pedals. The sw taco pedals were much bigger 
 than 
 I needed and they were getting in the way with the low bb on this bike. I 
 switched the pedals out for sw tiny bubbly pedals I was using on my 
 Kuwahara. I also swapped the b17 for a regal I scored off this list from 
 Julian. For aesthetics, I polished the seat post and shellacked the 
 chainstay protector. 

 From the beginning I knew I wanted a rear rack, so I finally ordered a 
 shiny rear rack from Riv. It's getting warmer here and I'll soon need to 
 switch over to a pannier for my daily commute. I wanted the cockpit to be 
 more sporty, so I ordered a 60mm Nitto 90-190 stem and Ahearne Map bars 
 which did the trick splendidly. It's such a pleasant change from the 
 tosco/tallux combo the bike came with. Finally, I removed the basket from 
 the campee rack as I no longer had a need for it on this bike. 

 Here's how my Platypus is looking now:
 [image: platy2.jpeg]
 I'll add the ferrule back to the derailer cable once I settle on the 
 thumb shifter. It's a suntour power ratchet for now. 
 On Friday, January 12, 2024 at 9:25:45 AM UTC-5 tio ryan wrote:

> Thrilled to be part of the Riv family! I just commuted to work on my 
> Platy and was smiling ear to ear the entire way. I even got a friendly 
> ding-ding from a fellow Riv rider traveling in the opposite direction 
> (I've 
> seen a few others here in Brooklyn over the years). I'm sure more changes 
> will come with time, I'm curious to see myself how it'll look in a year 
> or 
> two. In the near future, I know I'd like to add a rear rack, or maybe a 
> bag. 
>
> Steve, that's exactly what it is! I'm not even sure who makes this 
> particular one, but it had been strapped to my old man's Hardrock since 
> the 
> early 90s. It's quite nice inverted on a step-thru since the underside of 
> the bag has a reinforced/padded strap that's very comfortable to sit on, 
> or 
> to rest your feet. It also doesn't hurt that it can fit some tools as I'm 
> still dialing in my saddle/bar heights & angles. It was this 
>  Blue Lug/Riv 
> video where I saw one on Roman's bike and copied the idea. It's fantastic.
>
> -tio
>
> On Thursday, January 11, 2024 at 7:22:41 PM UTC-5 steve...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Tio - I meant to ask about the bag -- Inverted MTB 

Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[Guy LeVan]

Hi Leah!

I think you would dig a Crust Canti-Lightning Bolt as a complementary 
addition to your wonderful stable of Rivs - not only for the ride quality, 
but you can get a cool Lilac (with pink graphics) or Light Sea Green frame 
in your size now.  I own this bike, and it is light, quick, and fun to 
ride, and can easily accommodate up to a 650B x 48 tire.  But wait there’s 
more….in older Riv road bike style, the Canti-Bolts have flat top tubes, 
threaded headsets, and a gorgeous curved fork.  This is a low-trail Rando 
bike for sure - even the 650B wheels, etc.  This is a fun bike!  I’m a Riv 
head for sure, but I really enjoy a long faster road ride on the Crust 
every now and then.  

Crustbikes.com


Good luck in your search,

Guy
On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 7:01:14 AM UTC-6 David Hays wrote:

> Good morning Leah,
> I’m not sure where I read it but apparently Grant had at one point been a 
> fan of Mercians.
> A few years after I bought and built up my 650B Homer I found a used 
> Mercian KOM on Craigslist. I’ve since picked up another off the list and 
> had one purpose built for me. Very comfortable and fast. Some thing to 
> consider.
>
> Cheers,
> David 
>
> On Apr 21, 2024, at 12:17 AM, Josiah Anderson  
> wrote:
>
> Hi Leah,
>
> I'm also excited to hear about your journey towards a road bike; you 
> probably don't know it but your writing on this list was one of my main 
> influences towards ending up with a Riv. Drop bars and pavement are very 
> familiar, comfortable territory for me, and – like others have said here – 
> I still enjoy that type of riding at times.
>
> You're probably already familiar with him, but if not, I'd recommend 
> checking out some of Jan Heine's work – Bicycle Quarterly, *The All-Road 
> Bike Revolution,* his blog, etc. Bicycle Quarterly was my point of 
> departure from "mainstream" bike culture, and I came around to appreciating 
> Riv a bit later and now enjoy both approaches for different rides. Jan is 
> much more focused on speed than Grant is, but in what feels to me like a 
> healthy way. This is an old blog post that I think may be worth a read, as 
> it's an articulation of the same sort of perspective you seem to be 
> arriving at: https://www.renehersecycles.com/riding-fast-is-fun/. Jan 
> also wrote somewhere (can't find it right now) about how he and Grant are 
> good friends, and he wanted to make it clear he's not dissing Riv by 
> promoting what he likes.
>
> I currently have two of what I'd call "really nice" bikes, a Gus 
> Boots-Willsen and a Crust Lightning Bolt (alongside moderately nice bikes 
> like a Bridgestone MB-3 and a dumpster-find Bianchi Volpe). The Gus is 
> "full-Riv" – friction shifting, Carradice saddlebag, weird bar wrap, etc – 
> and the Crust is full Bicycle Quarterly, with 42mm extralight tires, 
> low-trail geometry, Gilles Berthoud handlebar bag, and all that. (Jan is 
> not affiliated with Crust, but Crust designed the Lightning Bolt with his 
> preferences in mind). The two bikes are a perfect combination for my 
> current riding: there is enough crossover that both work great for 
> doubletrack rides, and the Gus is ideal for riding singletrack while the 
> Crust excels at long, fast road and gravel rides. Rivendell doesn't make 
> randonneur bikes like my Crust, as it sounds to me like they don't like the 
> lighter-gauge tubing and the handling optimized for drop bars and moderate 
> front loads, but Grant has written (quoting from memory, so hopefully I'm 
> pretty close here) that he's glad companies like Crust exist and do 
> different stuff from Riv. I don't feel like riding my Crust is an insult to 
> Rivendell, just an expression of the fact that my riding conditions are a 
> bit different from theirs, though I totally get it if that's how it feels 
> to you. 
>
> I've never ridden a Roadeo or Roadini, but I've ridden a LOT of road race 
> and "sport-touring" bikes from the 1960s through 2000s, many of which (like 
> early 80s Trek sport tourers, one of my main rides for a long time) have a 
> lot of similarities to the Roadeo. I prefer my Crust for several reasons: 
> it's designed for bigger tires, which when they're René Herse Extralights 
> are just as fast as 23mm tubulars and far more versatile; it can carry a 
> big handlebar bag for long rides without compromising handling at all; and 
> it feels more "alternative" when showing up to group rides, a feeling we're 
> all used to with Rivendells - but it's still just as fast as the carbon 
> bikes, unlike my Gus. And the biggest factor is that it's made of 
> superlight steel tubing, which I like not for the weight savings (less than 
> a water bottle) but for the flex characteristics – it flexes with each 
> pedal stroke and feeds it back into the drivetrain, taking away the 
> pushing-against-a-brick-wall feeling of hammering up a hill on a stiff 
> bike. Jan calls this "planing," and it's pretty controversial, and others 
> call it a lively frame, a 

Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[Mathias Steiner]

Forgot to say:
If there's a co-op nearby, you'll find kindred spirits and a likely a few 
bicycles to try. Not a bad place to start the search for something used. 

On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 11:51:03 AM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> I haven't seen the Gallop's geometry,. Can you post it?
>
> As for Leah's original question, my wife rode a Cheviot but after she rode 
> my son's Roadini to work a few weeks she decided that she really liked the 
> Roadini better.
>
> We're still vainly hunting for a 50cm Roadini, but the other bikes I'm 
> considering are the Ritchey Logic Road (max 30mm tires, short chainstays), 
> the Crust Malochio (mismatched brakes are putting me off but what's worse 
> is that it has 650b wheels in her sizes which limits choice of fast tires), 
> and the Soma Pescadero (compromised handling geometry compared with the 
> Roadini). We'll probably have to decide this summer as to whether to wait 
> for the Roadini or go for a Gallop. One more option is the R Cycles 
> Rainier. All of these bikes would be bikes I would buy frame only because 
> the Bay Area has specific riding needs that default drivetrains made for 
> flat country are worthless for.
>
> On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 8:42:48 AM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
>> *- "Would they love it as a road bike? Or is it kind of all-purpose? 
>> Thanks!"*
>>
>> Rivendell makes stuff to be pretty flexible so even the Roadeo "could" be 
>> built out to be kind of all-purpose but the geometry and intent of the 
>> Gallop is to be a road frame that replaces the Roadini. My prototype is 
>> pretty light and very lively. I assume the production ones will be as well 
>> because the geometry should be the same it just has a straight bar vs a 
>> swoop. I think while its not a step through the angled bar will allow it to 
>> be more flexible with fitting.
>>
>> On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 11:07:13 AM UTC-4 leva...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Leah!
>>>
>>> I think you would dig a Crust Canti-Lightning Bolt as a complementary 
>>> addition to your wonderful stable of Rivs - not only for the ride quality, 
>>> but you can get a cool Lilac (with pink graphics) or Light Sea Green frame 
>>> in your size now.  I own this bike, and it is light, quick, and fun to 
>>> ride, and can easily accommodate up to a 650B x 48 tire.  But wait there’s 
>>> more….in older Riv road bike style, the Canti-Bolts have flat top tubes, 
>>> threaded headsets, and a gorgeous curved fork.  This is a low-trail Rando 
>>> bike for sure - even the 650B wheels, etc.  This is a fun bike!  I’m a Riv 
>>> head for sure, but I really enjoy a long faster road ride on the Crust 
>>> every now and then.  
>>>
>>> Crustbikes.com
>>>
>>>
>>> Good luck in your search,
>>>
>>> Guy
>>> On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 7:01:14 AM UTC-6 David Hays wrote:
>>>
 Good morning Leah,
 I’m not sure where I read it but apparently Grant had at one point been 
 a fan of Mercians.
 A few years after I bought and built up my 650B Homer I found a used 
 Mercian KOM on Craigslist. I’ve since picked up another off the list and 
 had one purpose built for me. Very comfortable and fast. Some thing to 
 consider.

 Cheers,
 David 

 On Apr 21, 2024, at 12:17 AM, Josiah Anderson  
 wrote:

 Hi Leah,

 I'm also excited to hear about your journey towards a road bike; you 
 probably don't know it but your writing on this list was one of my main 
 influences towards ending up with a Riv. Drop bars and pavement are very 
 familiar, comfortable territory for me, and – like others have said here – 
 I still enjoy that type of riding at times.

 You're probably already familiar with him, but if not, I'd recommend 
 checking out some of Jan Heine's work – Bicycle Quarterly, *The 
 All-Road Bike Revolution,* his blog, etc. Bicycle Quarterly was my 
 point of departure from "mainstream" bike culture, and I came around to 
 appreciating Riv a bit later and now enjoy both approaches for different 
 rides. Jan is much more focused on speed than Grant is, but in what feels 
 to me like a healthy way. This is an old blog post that I think may be 
 worth a read, as it's an articulation of the same sort of perspective you 
 seem to be arriving at: 
 https://www.renehersecycles.com/riding-fast-is-fun/. Jan also wrote 
 somewhere (can't find it right now) about how he and Grant are good 
 friends, and he wanted to make it clear he's not dissing Riv by promoting 
 what he likes.

 I currently have two of what I'd call "really nice" bikes, a Gus 
 Boots-Willsen and a Crust Lightning Bolt (alongside moderately nice bikes 
 like a Bridgestone MB-3 and a dumpster-find Bianchi Volpe). The Gus is 
 "full-Riv" – friction shifting, Carradice saddlebag, weird bar wrap, etc – 
 and the Crust is full Bicycle Quarterly, with 42mm extralight tires, 
 low-trail geometry, Gilles 

[RBW] Re: boscomoose - pictures, experiences, comparisons?

[iamkeith]

Thanks, Garth.  Funny - this thread isn't even that old, and I've changed 
several things since posting.  I guess I really am a chronic cockpit 
tinkerer.  Related to the original question, I did move my boscomoose back 
to my Clem, now that I have it back.  Even though I'd still like the stem 
to be longer, they continue to be the best bar on that bike.  [I did have a 
140 ritchey stem (25.4 quill) and aluminum boscos years ago when I first 
built that bike and it fit better, but the stiffness of the moose version 
still makes it the best compromise.]

I moved my tosco to the Susie pictured above with a 130mm faceplater stem.  
Once again, a longer stem would be even better, but this was still a huge 
improvement on that bike relative to the boscomoose.  Wider, less bent 
back, less rise (on a frame that has a super-talll headtube  already.)  
Thumbshifters work better in the normal/outer position  on toscos than 
boscos, but I left them inside and reversed for now.

I put some Ron's Orrtho bars on the bike that previously had toscos.  In 
this case, black/threadless is actually ideal.  But... 31.8 doesnt work 
without a shim.  I might try this anyway.  The best 26.0 stem I was able to 
find was 130mm.  Somewhere, I posted pics showing how similar the ortho ant 
tosco are.

On Saturday, April 20, 2024 at 11:58:12 AM UTC-6 Garth wrote:

> Hey Keith I was looking at stems today and was reminded that Zipp makes 
> 140mm and 150mm 31.8 threadless stems +/-6d. Black only, but those can be 
> altered if you really want silver. I'm not into playing with chemicals 
> myself so I'd seek out a auto/moto paint/body shop that has a media blaster 
> for aluminum. 
> On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 8:29:27 PM UTC-4 iamkeith wrote:
>
>> About to take Susie out for an evening ride, I just remembered that the 
>> slope of the bars is better than when it's on the Clem   because the 
>> slightly slacker headube angle.  When I had the adjustable kind, I still 
>> liked them a bit more sloped than this though
>> On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 10:41:14 AM UTC-6 Paul Richardson wrote:
>>
>>> howdy folks
>>>
>>> i've been doing the best digging i can and cannot seem to wrangle very 
>>> many pictures of rivs with boscomoose bars.  have you tried them?  did you 
>>> like them?  i ride big bikes, so i'm not too concerned about knee strike on 
>>> the bar-ends, which i gather can be a drawback for some.  their fixedness 
>>> obviously makes for a riskier purchase than separate stem+bars, so i'd love 
>>> to hear your experience before i take the plunge!
>>>
>>> thanks in advance
>>> paul
>>> takoma park, md.
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Building up a 45cm Clem for a 5'2 rider

[Igor]

Now that she's had a few rides on the 45cm, we've determined: Seat (vegan 
wide) was maybe a bit too low, not far back enough. Bars are too close... I 
set her up with 120mm stem (FW33) with 52cm Bosco. Looks like Choco or 
Albatross would be similar but not come back as far?

On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 10:24:05 PM UTC-4 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:

> @Igor -
>
> As a suggestion you might want to read some of the Gallery of Clem builds 
> on the Rivendell Bicycle Works website for fun.
>
>
> https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/customer-bikes/customer-built-clems-april-24?mc_cid=23650f4213
>
> Kim Hetzel. 
>
> On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 9:28:22 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> I don't have a Clem and have never done a ground-up Clem build, but I did 
>> fix a friend's Large Clem Complete when his stock cockpit proved too flexy. 
>>  We slammed (slammed == run the stem at the lowest possible height) a 
>> Choco-Moose, and that was a night and day improvement.  I'd absolutely 
>> start with Choco-moose again if I was doing another Clem build for myself 
>> or anybody else.  
>>
>> BL in EC
>>
>> On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 9:15:33 AM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>
>>> That is the stem (FW33) I ultimately chose as well.
>>>
>>> I agree the Albatross is a pretty decent bar for doing the forward 
>>> position because it doesn't come back as far as the others but to do it 
>>> properly you have to concede that that one of the positions won't be as 
>>> ideal. I use the loscos and they work very well too. If you set it really 
>>> far forward to account for the sweep back then the forward position is not 
>>> great to be in for long. If you set it to be comfortable in the forward 
>>> position the upright is sometimes not great. The losco and albatross 
>>> counter that pretty well. I never understood the multi position angle that 
>>> Riv takes but then tell you you need a really long stem to counter the 
>>> sweep. That puts the forward position way out there. So yeah if you want to 
>>> use both get one with less sweep and rise/ Thats been what has worked for 
>>> me.
>>>
>>> On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 11:19:05 AM UTC-4 Igor wrote:
>>>
 For what it's worth, I tried a Nitto FW33 stem (120mm, too long for her 
 imagine...) and it can be "slammed" in the head tube of this 45cm. I've 
 got 
 all of the spacers on the headset and have not/will not cut the steerer of 
 the fork either. I need to measure the stem quill length.. 
 https://global.bluelug.com/nitto-fw30-power-stem-dull.html

 On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 10:46:13 AM UTC-4 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> My experience on my Clem is quite the opposite of Garth’s. I do 
> understand that my situation may be unique but it is what it is. 45 
> degree 
> forward simply does not work for me. Bolt upright is the only way I can 
> achieve a no numb hands position. Going into the wind I will assume a 
> more 
> forward leaning position but I cannot stay there very long. Numbness is 
> almost immediately. I ride my Clem for hours with virtually no weight on 
> my 
> hands. And yes, my saddle is in the perfect vertical & horizontal 
> position 
> relative to the bottom bracket. I have ridden in this position, Bosco’s 
> 2”-3” above saddle height, for 2 years & over 7,000 miles. No numb hands.
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 5, 2024, at 9:24 AM, Garth  wrote:
>
> An Albatoross is best for being in a forward, say 45d angle in a 
> swept back style bar. If you use reverse Tektro brake levers, tape the 
> bar 
> up to and just around the top bend, then put thumbshiters there, that's 
> about a "racey upright" as one can get using 45d body position as a base. 
> All the other swept back bars, with regular MTB levers and grips at the 
> ends, is just all wrong for what I'm referring to as the bars come back 
> too 
> far, requiring more weight on the arms and hands. When you lean forward, 
> with proper forward seat placement in relation to the BB so you're using 
> your legs and core to support yourself(not unlike riding a unicycle), 
> having your arms extended forward exerts less pressure on the arms and 
> hands. I think shallow, wide flared drop bars could also work if more 
> hand 
> positions are desired. 
>
>
> On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 9:02:00 AM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
>> Note when choosing stem (as I see a Faceplater was suggested), the 
>> smaller sizes have headtubes that don't go very deep. I face this on the 
>> 50-52 sizes. Those SUPER tall stems that Rivendell sells will not go 
>> very 
>> far in and thus you are forced to have a ton of stem exposed. Couple 
>> that 
>> with a bar like the Bosco and you will be way way way up with no way to 
>> get 
>> it lower. Pick up a stem that does not have the super long lengths. Go 
>> short even if 

Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[David Hays]

Good morning Leah,
I’m not sure where I read it but apparently Grant had at one point been a fan 
of Mercians.
A few years after I bought and built up my 650B Homer I found a used Mercian 
KOM on Craigslist. I’ve since picked up another off the list and had one 
purpose built for me. Very comfortable and fast. Some thing to consider.

Cheers,
David 

> On Apr 21, 2024, at 12:17 AM, Josiah Anderson  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Leah,
> 
> I'm also excited to hear about your journey towards a road bike; you probably 
> don't know it but your writing on this list was one of my main influences 
> towards ending up with a Riv. Drop bars and pavement are very familiar, 
> comfortable territory for me, and – like others have said here – I still 
> enjoy that type of riding at times.
> 
> You're probably already familiar with him, but if not, I'd recommend checking 
> out some of Jan Heine's work – Bicycle Quarterly, The All-Road Bike 
> Revolution, his blog, etc. Bicycle Quarterly was my point of departure from 
> "mainstream" bike culture, and I came around to appreciating Riv a bit later 
> and now enjoy both approaches for different rides. Jan is much more focused 
> on speed than Grant is, but in what feels to me like a healthy way. This is 
> an old blog post that I think may be worth a read, as it's an articulation of 
> the same sort of perspective you seem to be arriving at: 
> https://www.renehersecycles.com/riding-fast-is-fun/ 
> . Jan also wrote 
> somewhere (can't find it right now) about how he and Grant are good friends, 
> and he wanted to make it clear he's not dissing Riv by promoting what he 
> likes.
> 
> I currently have two of what I'd call "really nice" bikes, a Gus 
> Boots-Willsen and a Crust Lightning Bolt (alongside moderately nice bikes 
> like a Bridgestone MB-3 and a dumpster-find Bianchi Volpe). The Gus is 
> "full-Riv" – friction shifting, Carradice saddlebag, weird bar wrap, etc – 
> and the Crust is full Bicycle Quarterly, with 42mm extralight tires, 
> low-trail geometry, Gilles Berthoud handlebar bag, and all that. (Jan is not 
> affiliated with Crust, but Crust designed the Lightning Bolt with his 
> preferences in mind). The two bikes are a perfect combination for my current 
> riding: there is enough crossover that both work great for doubletrack rides, 
> and the Gus is ideal for riding singletrack while the Crust excels at long, 
> fast road and gravel rides. Rivendell doesn't make randonneur bikes like my 
> Crust, as it sounds to me like they don't like the lighter-gauge tubing and 
> the handling optimized for drop bars and moderate front loads, but Grant has 
> written (quoting from memory, so hopefully I'm pretty close here) that he's 
> glad companies like Crust exist and do different stuff from Riv. I don't feel 
> like riding my Crust is an insult to Rivendell, just an expression of the 
> fact that my riding conditions are a bit different from theirs, though I 
> totally get it if that's how it feels to you. 
> 
> I've never ridden a Roadeo or Roadini, but I've ridden a LOT of road race and 
> "sport-touring" bikes from the 1960s through 2000s, many of which (like early 
> 80s Trek sport tourers, one of my main rides for a long time) have a lot of 
> similarities to the Roadeo. I prefer my Crust for several reasons: it's 
> designed for bigger tires, which when they're René Herse Extralights are just 
> as fast as 23mm tubulars and far more versatile; it can carry a big handlebar 
> bag for long rides without compromising handling at all; and it feels more 
> "alternative" when showing up to group rides, a feeling we're all used to 
> with Rivendells - but it's still just as fast as the carbon bikes, unlike my 
> Gus. And the biggest factor is that it's made of superlight steel tubing, 
> which I like not for the weight savings (less than a water bottle) but for 
> the flex characteristics – it flexes with each pedal stroke and feeds it back 
> into the drivetrain, taking away the pushing-against-a-brick-wall feeling of 
> hammering up a hill on a stiff bike. Jan calls this "planing," and it's 
> pretty controversial, and others call it a lively frame, a somewhat less 
> controversial term. My personal experience says it works – take that however 
> you want. I do not believe the Roadini would "plane" or be particularly 
> "lively," based on what I've heard, and the slightly lighter Roadeo might or 
> might not depending on how much power you're putting down.
> 
> A classic road bike like the Roadeo is also an aesthetic choice, though, not 
> just a practical one, and if that's the sort of bike you want, I don't want 
> to be the one to argue against that! Those sorts of bikes are very 
> well-proven for many use cases, and fast-paced, shortish (~30 mile) group 
> rides are certainly one of those.
> 
> Basically what I'm hoping to say here is that "road bike" can mean many 
> things, and that Jan Heine's writing has been a 

[RBW] Re: Give this guy a Like and a Subscribe

[Marcus Gomersall]

Just realised my channel was shared on here. Thank you!

On Tuesday 12 March 2024 at 10:09:34 UTC+9 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> QUALITY content! 
>
> On Monday, March 11, 2024 at 10:58:51 AM UTC-4 tio ryan wrote:
>
>> Glad to see he's making longer content for YouTube, as I've also been 
>> following him on IG for little while now and have been enjoying his bike 
>> videos. 
>>
>> He's got a couple very sweet Rivs and a gift for filming and editing 
>> bicycle content. 
>>
>> On Monday, March 11, 2024 at 8:03:49 AM UTC-4 Tim Bantham wrote:
>>
>>> I've been following him on Instagram. He's got a nice collection of 
>>> Riv's and is constantly posting riding videos. No bike no likes right? I 
>>> subscribed to the YouTube channel. 
>>>
>>> On Sunday, March 10, 2024 at 8:39:37 PM UTC-4 weste...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Thanks for sharing -- nice understated video that really is worth 
 watching -- makes me want to go cycle in Korea!  

 Julian Westerhout
 Bloomington, Il 


 On Saturday, March 9, 2024 at 10:16:40 PM UTC-6 Hoch in ut wrote:

> Nice video of his adventures aboard a Clem in Korea. 
>
> https://youtu.be/IFoDkOQjk08?si=tOa6oP0IbiZmwNRQ
>


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[RBW] Rivendells in South Korea

[Marcus Gomersall]

Hello fellow Rivendell enthusiasts,

I'm Marcus, I live in Seoul, South Korea and am probably riding one of my 
Rivs around. I recently started a Youtube channel and thought some people 
on here might be interested in seeing it. I have some bike checks of my 
Clem, Romulus, Atlantis and Velo Orange Polyvalent but it's mostly 
showcasing what cycling in Korea is like. 

I hope it's ok to post here and hope you enjoy!  Probably Riding - YouTube 


Thanks for all of your discussions on this group!

Marcus

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[RBW] Kickstand bolt size

[JL V]

Hi guys any idea what size of bolt can fit on the kickstand? Planning to 
replace my bolt to allen head. I'm using the BL select greenfield by the 
way. Thanks 

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RE: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[Bernard Duhon]

Early trek Aluminum bikes were good.
There is nothing as durable as an Aluminum bike paint job.  They were well made 
& last

However, don’t confuse the aluminum bike quality with those of Trek’s early 
steel bikes.

From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Ryan
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2024 9:22 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch 
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Roadbike Curious

@Sally...custom Erickson...that's a nice find, too!
On Saturday, April 20, 2024 at 9:20:27 PM UTC-5 Ryan wrote:
I think Bill's onto something. I've never owned a Trek, but I did (still have 
it, in fact) own a T600 or 700 Cannondale I bought in 1988 for the ridiculously 
low price of ~$600 CAD. It was a bit of an oddball with 271/4 wheel size 
instead of 700c and came with a very decent component spec; Deore derailleurs 
and triple crank , 600 hubs and brakes, nitto,TTT bars...really a  very  nice  
bike. Maybe because it was red...but great touring bike (yes,  we do have some 
hills in Manitoba) and really fun unloaded...kind of a sport-touring vibe. In 
fact, for most road riding; I found it way more comfortable than my Rossin. I 
gave it to my late partner, who put moustache bars on it...and BTW if drops 
don't float your boat , you might like moustache/albastache bars.

$325 is a small price to pay for an experiment. I do rather like that color. I 
know Trek is like the evil empire, but man, they did make some nice bikes in 
the 80s and 90s. OTOH...if Bill is willing to spend time with you to help you 
find something, you should definitely take him up on it because he knows what 
he's talking about.

Next priority is you'll have to build an extension on your garage to keep the 
fleet safe and dry :)

BTW...can't wait to see the purple platy once you have it all built up.
On Saturday, April 20, 2024 at 8:46:48 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
Leah

Here's an exceptionally good value on an exceedingly solid road bike that could 
hold you over while you wait for the perfect Rivendell, -AND/OR- to act as a  
test platform for the unknown parts of a potential build concept.  This is the 
kind of value I'd try to sniff out for you:

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/bik/d/san-francisco-52cm-trek-usa-purple/7721534636.html

I don't know for sure it's the right size but I do know I'm 5'10" and would 
ride the 58 in that model.

BL
On Saturday, April 20, 2024 at 6:12:20 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:
Bill, I think I would love an albastache build. I ALSO like the idea of you 
being my personal shopper. I think I’m pretty biased to staying with Riv; I 
can’t be hurting Grant’s feelings, you know. But I love this Michigan 
connection! If we did get a road bike and you got all kinds of say-so in the 
build then you would for sure have to say APPROVE when I post it on the List. 
Very gratifying, indeed.


On Apr 20, 2024, at 4:52 PM, Bill Lindsay 
mailto:tape...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Leah

My previous Roadeo was set up as a straight-ahead stripped down road bike, and 
I would have used that anyplace anybody rides a road bike.  After selling that, 
and while I was waiting for my new pink Roadeo, I used my Black Mountain Road 
in that stripped down road bike slot, and that bike was the deal of the 
century, IMO.  The RoadeoRosa revealed itself to be more than just a stripped 
down road bike: It has insisted to become my 700c randonneuse.

Anyway, I did a very fast build on a Leo Roadini, last batch, and my best-ever 
brevet time was on that bike.  So I think it's doable.  The newer batch with 
its long reach brakes feels less "roadie".

I can sympathize with the desire to run a Riv, but I'd also recommend casting a 
wider net, because smaller frame sized used road bikes can be had at a really 
good price.  Maybe if you start trolling Michigan craigslist and the next time 
I'm out in Wayne County for work I can come be your personal shopper.  :)

Anything that can be set up with drop bars can probably also be set up with an 
albastache build, which may ease you in.  Also, having a placeholder road bike 
could free you up to put a deposit on a Roadeo and then you'll have both!

Do let me know if you want more advice

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA
On Saturday, April 20, 2024 at 12:33:50 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:
I’m starting to wonder about a roadbike. But it has to be a Rivendell roadbike 
because I’m loyal and all that. Anyway, I don’t know that the Roadini really 
offers enough of a change for me. I have no idea what is going on with the 
Gallup. Then there’s the Roadeo - that one looks great but there’s a 2 year 
wait, unless I can find one used. Which would be ideal.

Who rides their Rivbike in club rides and what do you ride? Who has a Roadeo 
that never gets ridden and wants to sell it? I don’t even know what size I’d be 
but I’m an 81 PBH. Must I ride drop bars? I never have before. I know nothing 
about any of this. Clearly.

Note: I still like my raspberry Platypus for club riding but it does take a 
toll on me 

[RBW] Re: Rivendells in South Korea

[velomann]

Marcus,
I found your Youtube channel about a month ago and it has been an absolute 
delight. We have a pretty strong Rivendell contingent here in Portland, OR, 
and I've been telling everyone about your channel.
 Thank you for showing us your corner of the world. Honestly, South Korea 
was not a place I would have considered visiting to cycle - until I started 
watching your videos. And the coffee scene in Seoul looks fantastic!

Michael Mann

On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 10:10:28 AM UTC-7 probablyri...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Hello fellow Rivendell enthusiasts,
>
> I'm Marcus, I live in Seoul, South Korea and am probably riding one of my 
> Rivs around. I recently started a Youtube channel and thought some people 
> on here might be interested in seeing it. I have some bike checks of my 
> Clem, Romulus, Atlantis and Velo Orange Polyvalent but it's mostly 
> showcasing what cycling in Korea is like. 
>
> I hope it's ok to post here and hope you enjoy!  Probably Riding - YouTube 
> 
>
> Thanks for all of your discussions on this group!
>
> Marcus
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Craigslist, etc 2024

[zangt...@gmail.com]

Hey, that's me!  ;-)
Thanks for posting this here.

On Tuesday, April 16, 2024 at 9:54:51 AM UTC-7 Matti wrote:

Nice Riv Long Low in Seattle...
https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/bik/d/lynnwood-rivendell-longlow-59-cm-joe/7737587739.html

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[RBW] FS: RBW Mug & Hat

[Greg Beachy]

Both are like new as I used them only once or twice. Time for them to find 
a home to someone who will use them. Price doesn't include shipping which I 
will provide after purchaser provides their zip code.

Mug $20
Hat $20
Purchase both $35

Best way to contact me is to text me at 502-974-7707.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[Leah Peterson]

I am headed out to ride but I want to pop on here because I think it’s funny - can we do funny on here? - that I said I was “roadbike curious” and my texts, DMs, email all blew up. BUY THIS ONE! WHAT ABOUT THIS? Web special! eBay link! Bike people are the best and the fun-est people.I am, right now, leaning toward a Gallup bike but will keep reading and learning. And right now, I’m heading out to do Tabatas training. I had to look it up. Promises to be the most miserable 4 minutes of my day. You all carry on. I’ll be back later!Thanks for being so great.LeahOn Apr 21, 2024, at 1:10 PM, Andrew Joseph  wrote:Johnny, Any comparison of your Gallop proto to the Roadini that I may have missed? If not, could you give us your impressions?  New here…Roman mentioned the Gallop might land somewhere between the Homer and the Roadini.  V/R,DrewSent from my iPhoneOn Apr 20, 2024, at 6:56 PM, Johnny Alien  wrote:Probably a bit of a wait for a Gallop but the slightly lower top tube could give it an edge over standard road frames. I have the swoopy prototype and if it rides the same people are going to love it.On Saturday, April 20, 2024 at 7:23:36 PM UTC-4 bei...@gmail.com wrote:Leah I was psyched to see this post because you were the #1 influence on me to get a Platypus (besides Lance who sold it to me! Thanks, Lance!). Besides the Platy, which is for around town and gravel and kid-hauling, I also ride my father-in-laws 1990-something Merlin road bike in occasional club rides and races. I love the Platy for all the already mentioned reasons in this Bunch, and love the snappy, fast, titanium Merlin, but always wish the fork was a bit heavier (and not carbon) and that the chainstays were a hair longer (and didn’t limit the rear tire to 25mm). I almost jumped on a used Roadeo in my size a month or so ago and am extremely Roadini curious. I wonder if you say the roadini “doesn’t offer enough of a change” for you because you think it’s not different enough from the Platy? I would think the Roadini is closer to the Roadeo or a Rambouillet than the Gallop will be. From the August 2023 blahg, the Gallop looks like a mix between a Platy and a Roadini. when I see that Homer Jim shared in your size as a web special my first thought was, “THAT’S IT!,” but I think you should give a ”real” “road bike” a shot rather than a “country bike” like a Sam or a Homer, since your Platy’s are in that category. Thanks for your contributions Leah and have fun finding your next “Save me from the wind on club rides!” Bike! ChristianBoulder, COPS: Gallop pics in this blagh:https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/grant-petersens-blog/august?_pos=11&_sid=e1163b89a&_ss=rOn Saturday, April 20, 2024 at 3:58:44 PM UTC-6 Jim M. wrote:I think the Roadeo is the raciest road bike Riv has made. I've seen one 56cm that was built up to 18.5 lbs with pedals. But if you're looking beyond the weight weenie category, there are lots of other options. Rambouillet, Redwood, and Romulus come to mind. And if you're not fixed on 700 wheels, you've got the Hilsen, Saluki, and Bleriot. I had a road wheelset for my Legolas, which I used for club rides and randonneuring. I wouldn't hesitate to put drop bars on my Bleriot and turn it into a randonneur too. And how could I forget the Hillborne? Also very roadable. There's a 51 dropbar Homer on the web special page https://www.rivbike.com/products/51cm-homer-dark-gold-antonios-dropbar-pick if that's your size.jim mwalnut creek caOn Saturday, April 20, 2024 at 12:33:50 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:I’m starting to wonder about a roadbike. But it has to be a Rivendell roadbike because I’m loyal and all that. Anyway, I don’t know that the Roadini really offers enough of a change for me. I have no idea what is going on with the Gallup. Then there’s the Roadeo - that one looks great but there’s a 2 year wait, unless I can find one used. Which would be ideal. Who rides their Rivbike in club rides and what do you ride? Who has a Roadeo that never gets ridden and wants to sell it? I don’t even know what size I’d be but I’m an 81 PBH. Must I ride drop bars? I never have before. I know nothing about any of this. Clearly.Note: I still like my raspberry Platypus for club riding but it does take a toll on me in wind. I recently got a shorter-height, longer-reach stem which marginally helped, but our high spring winds are taking it out of me. I did a club ride yesterday with my women’s group and my heart rate was in the 170s the whole 26.3 miles. It was brutal. Everyone else agreed it was a hard ride, but I felt like it was harder on me than them, and I’m the youngest and probably the most fit. Leah



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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[Ted Durant]

On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 1:12:20 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

I am, right now, leaning toward a Gallup bike but will keep reading and 
learning. And right now, I’m heading out to do Tabatas training. I had to 
look it up. Promises to be the most miserable 4 minutes of my day.

Wow, first we hear you are road bike curious, now you are doing tabata 
workouts. Leah is going super hard core on us.

My 2 cents worth ... "road bike", as opposed to what you currently ride and 
love, is first and foremost about riding position. FWIW, my recommendation 
is to skip past Albastache and Mustache and go straight to drop bars. Start 
with them relatively high and close, so when your hands are on the tops you 
feel like your back is relaxed and comfy. Bernard Hinault, I think, said 
you should feel like you're playing piano on the tops. You then have the 
curves on top, where your hands are a bit wider apart and slightly forward, 
and your back should still be comfy. Then you go forward to the brake 
hoods. Now you should feel like you're more forward than you would be on 
your current bikes. But, if you're riding at a hard enough effort (we're 
not talking super hard here), the force on the pedals should be carrying 
enough of your weight that you're not having to hold yourself up on your 
hands. Next you go below the brake hoods to the farthest forward part of 
the drops. This is the speedy aero position. You won't have a low, flat 
back here until you've lowered your stem/bars quite a bit. But you should 
have a flat back and you should be putting a fair amount of force into the 
pedals. Finally, there are the flat parts of the drops, with your hands 
back a bit closer to you, which are a "cruising" location for me (and right 
next to my bar end shifters), low enough to be efficient but not fully 
stretched out. I've recently read comments from "racers" that if you spend 
any amount of time down there your bars are too high. Well, my bars are 
certainly too high by their standards, but mine are set up for me to be 
comfortable in every spot. Very important: in EVERY position you should not 
be gripping the bar or brake hood tightly, you should have a very loose 
grip and not be bearing too much weight there. I typically am very slightly 
pulling up on the brake hoods or drops to counteract the pedaling force of 
the opposite leg. Also, you should ALWAYS have at least a slight bend in 
your elbows in every position. If you are locking your elbows something is 
wrong with the position and you're doing bad things to your wrist and 
shoulders and neck.

General rule of thumb for starting out, have the tops of the bars maybe an 
inch above saddle height or, if you're already pretty flexible in the heaps 
and low back, level with the saddle. Put the back of an elbow at the front 
of the saddle and stretch your finger tips toward the handlebars. They 
should just touch the back of the handlebars at the stem. Maybe a little 
closer if you're tight, a little farther if you're flexible. Somebody 
recommended Noodle bars, which I heartily endorse, as that's what I have on 
most of my bikes. I like them because 1) the curves are generous 2) there's 
a little rise in the top curve, making them very comfy in that area) and 3) 
there's a fair amount of reach and drop, so you have a good range of 
positions. That last part is key for me on long rides. Sometimes I'm riding 
hard and need the long and low positions. Sometimes I'm taking it easy and 
need the high and near positions. 

I won't opine much on "which bike", because once you figure out your fit 
criteria, any bike that allows you to have that position will work fine. I 
have my Sam Hillbornes set up almost identically to my custom Waterford ST 
and Rivendell Road, except on the Riv Road the handlebars are a bit farther 
away and lower. 

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[george schick]

What Ted says, exactly. I began “serious” biking over 50 years ago on a 
road bike with drop bars and never looked back. That’s not to say that 
there isn’t merit to other kinds of bars and more upright riding positions, 
but the “drop” road bar offers those various hand positions. Once you adapt 
to them it’s hard to go back.


Ad 

On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 2:23:39 PM UTC-5 Ted Durant wrote:

> On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 1:12:20 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
> I am, right now, leaning toward a Gallup bike but will keep reading and 
> learning. And right now, I’m heading out to do Tabatas training. I had to 
> look it up. Promises to be the most miserable 4 minutes of my day.
>
> Wow, first we hear you are road bike curious, now you are doing tabata 
> workouts. Leah is going super hard core on us.
>
> My 2 cents worth ... "road bike", as opposed to what you currently ride 
> and love, is first and foremost about riding position. FWIW, my 
> recommendation is to skip past Albastache and Mustache and go straight to 
> drop bars. Start with them relatively high and close, so when your hands 
> are on the tops you feel like your back is relaxed and comfy. Bernard 
> Hinault, I think, said you should feel like you're playing piano on the 
> tops. You then have the curves on top, where your hands are a bit wider 
> apart and slightly forward, and your back should still be comfy. Then you 
> go forward to the brake hoods. Now you should feel like you're more forward 
> than you would be on your current bikes. But, if you're riding at a hard 
> enough effort (we're not talking super hard here), the force on the pedals 
> should be carrying enough of your weight that you're not having to hold 
> yourself up on your hands. Next you go below the brake hoods to the 
> farthest forward part of the drops. This is the speedy aero position. You 
> won't have a low, flat back here until you've lowered your stem/bars quite 
> a bit. But you should have a flat back and you should be putting a fair 
> amount of force into the pedals. Finally, there are the flat parts of the 
> drops, with your hands back a bit closer to you, which are a "cruising" 
> location for me (and right next to my bar end shifters), low enough to be 
> efficient but not fully stretched out. I've recently read comments from 
> "racers" that if you spend any amount of time down there your bars are too 
> high. Well, my bars are certainly too high by their standards, but mine are 
> set up for me to be comfortable in every spot. Very important: in EVERY 
> position you should not be gripping the bar or brake hood tightly, you 
> should have a very loose grip and not be bearing too much weight there. I 
> typically am very slightly pulling up on the brake hoods or drops to 
> counteract the pedaling force of the opposite leg. Also, you should ALWAYS 
> have at least a slight bend in your elbows in every position. If you are 
> locking your elbows something is wrong with the position and you're doing 
> bad things to your wrist and shoulders and neck.
>
> General rule of thumb for starting out, have the tops of the bars maybe an 
> inch above saddle height or, if you're already pretty flexible in the heaps 
> and low back, level with the saddle. Put the back of an elbow at the front 
> of the saddle and stretch your finger tips toward the handlebars. They 
> should just touch the back of the handlebars at the stem. Maybe a little 
> closer if you're tight, a little farther if you're flexible. Somebody 
> recommended Noodle bars, which I heartily endorse, as that's what I have on 
> most of my bikes. I like them because 1) the curves are generous 2) there's 
> a little rise in the top curve, making them very comfy in that area) and 3) 
> there's a fair amount of reach and drop, so you have a good range of 
> positions. That last part is key for me on long rides. Sometimes I'm riding 
> hard and need the long and low positions. Sometimes I'm taking it easy and 
> need the high and near positions. 
>
> I won't opine much on "which bike", because once you figure out your fit 
> criteria, any bike that allows you to have that position will work fine. I 
> have my Sam Hillbornes set up almost identically to my custom Waterford ST 
> and Rivendell Road, except on the Riv Road the handlebars are a bit farther 
> away and lower. 
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee WI USA
>

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[Patrick Moore]

This is going to be a fun thread. Please don't take a great volume of
advice as condescending; I think that this thread will elicit a very large
amount of love for road bikes as a distinct genus of bicycle.

I think you very particularly will benefit a great deal from the right road
bike and that once you get things basically sorted you will find that you
enjoy it immensely for the kind of riding you describe. There is a
perfection of fit and feel and a real pleasure in riding a well set up
traditional road bike -- I don't mean racing bike -- that you don't find
with other combinations of frame, saddle, bar, and their relative
positions. Really, this sort of setup on the right sort of frame is
*more* comfortable,
*more* natural, *more* pleasant for energetic riding than other setups; at
least, I've always found it so, and there's a reason why the traditional
road bike was developed so quickly after the chain-driven safety was
invented and why it has remained largely the same for going on for 150
years.

Note: I don't say that *everyone* who rides energetically should have a
road bike, but everyone who does so and can try ought at least to give one
a try. Again, there is an efficiency and comfort -- really, a "fit" like
that of a custom suit or perfect tool -- offered by an intelligently spec'd
and set up road bike that, you don't -- or at least, *I don't,* -- get with
any other sort of bike.

Me, based on my experience, I'd certainly start by keeping my eye out for a
used Roadeo or Riv Road or LongLow or Ram or Heron. But for the final and
perfect version, I'd not close my mind a priori to other makes. I am
guessing, but I would not be surprised if, after your usual rapid learning
cycle, this time with a road bike, you end up with a custom. My favorite
bike of all time out of several scores is a custom Riv Road, but I've owned
2 other Riv Road customs plus a Ram (and the Sam) not to mention many other
road bikes, and I've sold them all on to finally get what for me is belated
perfection in the 2 Matthews customs  -- tho' these used the Rivs as
general design templates.

I rode the gofast Riv fixie road bike to and from church today with the
usual annoying NE winds while inbound N and E and the usual SW winds on
return N and W. For the umpteen millionth time I remarked to myself at how
pleasant it was to be able to drop "intuitively" into the hooks when
turning into a wind, or to grab the long (Maes Parallel) ramps when
pushing, butt-back and elbows bent, up an incline, or sitting up and
holding the flats or the flat/ramp transition and spinning when the wind
became a tailwind.

I've certainly passed my speed demon days, but there remains a very
distinct pleasure in riding energetically -- for me, particularly on hills
and against winds -- on the perfectly set up road bike, and I have enough
experience to know that I would not enjoy this nearly as much on anything
else.

*Bon chance!*


On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 1:33 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
jonasandle...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I’m starting to wonder about a roadbike. But it has to be a Rivendell
> roadbike because I’m loyal and all that. Anyway, I don’t know that the
> Roadini really offers enough of a change for me. I have no idea what is
> going on with the Gallup. Then there’s the Roadeo - that one looks great
> but there’s a 2 year wait, unless I can find one used. Which would be
> ideal.
>
> Who rides their Rivbike in club rides and what do you ride? Who has a
> Roadeo that never gets ridden and wants to sell it? I don’t even know what
> size I’d be but I’m an 81 PBH. Must I ride drop bars? I never have before.
> I know nothing about any of this. Clearly.
>
> Note: I still like my raspberry Platypus for club riding but it does take
> a toll on me in wind. I recently got a shorter-height, longer-reach stem
> which marginally helped, but our high spring winds are taking it out of me.
> I did a club ride yesterday with my women’s group and my heart rate was in
> the 170s the whole 26.3 miles. It was brutal. Everyone else agreed it was a
> hard ride, but I felt like it was harder on me than them, and I’m the
> youngest and probably the most fit.
>
> Leah
>
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> .
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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[Jay Lonner]

Interestingly I just went through a similar process, and considered many of the bikes already mentioned (Roadini, Lightning Bolt, Pescadero). I wound up buying a Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross. It just arrived last week and I’m gathering parts for the build. The plan is drop bars, SRAM Eagle 1x12 drivetrain, RH Snoqualmie Pass tires with the new RH TPU tubes (so I’m following that thread with interest too). What sold me on the Monstercross are the canti studs (I don’t care for centerpull brakes) and brazeons for a rando rack. BB is a little higher than comparable bikes, which isn’t surprising for bike with cyclocross DNA, but I’m hoping it will work out for more spirited road rides while still able to handle non-technical singletrack. But then I read Diana H.’s epic bikepacking trip reports on her Platypus and it makes me think that I’m probably overthinking things (I’m prone to that) and that Lance was right — it’s not about the bike. But it is fun to experiment!Jay LonnerBellingham, WASent from my Atari 400On Apr 21, 2024, at 8:57 AM, Mathias Steiner  wrote:Forgot to say:If there's a co-op nearby, you'll find kindred spirits and a likely a few bicycles to try. Not a bad place to start the search for something used. On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 11:51:03 AM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com wrote:I haven't seen the Gallop's geometry,. Can you post it?As for Leah's original question, my wife rode a Cheviot but after she rode my son's Roadini to work a few weeks she decided that she really liked the Roadini better.We're still vainly hunting for a 50cm Roadini, but the other bikes I'm considering are the Ritchey Logic Road (max 30mm tires, short chainstays), the Crust Malochio (mismatched brakes are putting me off but what's worse is that it has 650b wheels in her sizes which limits choice of fast tires), and the Soma Pescadero (compromised handling geometry compared with the Roadini). We'll probably have to decide this summer as to whether to wait for the Roadini or go for a Gallop. One more option is the R Cycles Rainier. All of these bikes would be bikes I would buy frame only because the Bay Area has specific riding needs that default drivetrains made for flat country are worthless for.On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 8:42:48 AM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:- "Would they love it as a road bike? Or is it kind of all-purpose? Thanks!"Rivendell makes stuff to be pretty flexible so even the Roadeo "could" be built out to be kind of all-purpose but the geometry and intent of the Gallop is to be a road frame that replaces the Roadini. My prototype is pretty light and very lively. I assume the production ones will be as well because the geometry should be the same it just has a straight bar vs a swoop. I think while its not a step through the angled bar will allow it to be more flexible with fitting.On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 11:07:13 AM UTC-4 leva...@gmail.com wrote:Hi Leah!I think you would dig a Crust Canti-Lightning Bolt as a complementary addition to your wonderful stable of Rivs - not only for the ride quality, but you can get a cool Lilac (with pink graphics) or Light Sea Green frame in your size now.  I own this bike, and it is light, quick, and fun to ride, and can easily accommodate up to a 650B x 48 tire.  But wait there’s more….in older Riv road bike style, the Canti-Bolts have flat top tubes, threaded headsets, and a gorgeous curved fork.  This is a low-trail Rando bike for sure - even the 650B wheels, etc.  This is a fun bike!  I’m a Riv head for sure, but I really enjoy a long faster road ride on the Crust every now and then.  Crustbikes.comGood luck in your search,GuyOn Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 7:01:14 AM UTC-6 David Hays wrote:Good morning Leah,I’m not sure where I read it but apparently Grant had at one point been a fan of Mercians.A few years after I bought and built up my 650B Homer I found a used Mercian KOM on Craigslist. I’ve since picked up another off the list and had one purpose built for me. Very comfortable and fast. Some thing to consider.Cheers,David On Apr 21, 2024, at 12:17 AM, Josiah Anderson  wrote:Hi Leah,I'm also excited to hear about your journey towards a road bike; you probably don't know it but your writing on this list was one of my main influences towards ending up with a Riv. Drop bars and pavement are very familiar, comfortable territory for me, and – like others have said here – I still enjoy that type of riding at times.You're probably already familiar with him, but if not, I'd recommend checking out some of Jan Heine's work – Bicycle Quarterly, The All-Road Bike Revolution, his blog, etc. Bicycle Quarterly was my point of departure from "mainstream" bike culture, and I came around to appreciating Riv a bit later and now enjoy both approaches for different rides. Jan is much more focused on speed than Grant is, but in what feels to me like a healthy way. This is an old blog post that I think may be worth a read, as it's an articulation of the same sort of 

Re: [RBW] Re: Who’s getting a Platypus tomorrow?

[bill la via]

That is a sweet color. I’m a little jealous. I have Lime Olive which I
don’t like as much as the new Sergio Green but that Mermaid is the holy
grail for me. Well done.

-Bill


On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 7:14 AM Steve  wrote:

> Tio, yep - what RMRose said - Mermaid.   To my eyes it's a light shade of
> aquamarine. I like the way the contrast with the black fenders tends to
> highlight it.
>
> On Saturday, April 20, 2024 at 12:50:22 PM UTC-4 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Tio, pretty sure that’s a “Mermaid” colored Platy. Never knew I needed a
>> Mermaid bike until I got one.:)
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>
>> On Apr 20, 2024, at 12:28 PM, tio ryan  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> *Can you tell us more about why the new stem/bar is a pleasant change?*
>> I think it's because getting around the city involves frequent stops and
>> starts and I often find myself riding out of the saddle to accelerate. With
>> the tosco and albatross bars, it felt like my hands were behind me when I
>> was out of the saddle and I had less control. When seated, the new setup
>> has me in a more tucked position resulting in a ride that has felt less
>> sluggish. I also had my saddle too low for a while which definitely wasn't
>> helping..
>>
>> It’s interesting to see the variations on the Platypus frames from
>> previous years -- lovely setup, Steve! I’ve been wondering what the
>> official name of that color is. It’s my fave!
>>
>> -tio in brooklyn
>> On Friday, April 19, 2024 at 9:51:29 PM UTC-4 Steve wrote:
>>
>>> Forgive my photo bombing this thread - but I can't resist. Let's just
>>> say I'm posting in response to Bill so anyone following along will be able
>>> to contrast the new lugged tubes with the older brazed ones;- )[image:
>>> 9E44819D-2EF4-498C-92EE-0E23E73A049F_1_201_a.jpeg]
>>> On Friday, April 19, 2024 at 7:03:41 PM UTC-4 schralp wrote:
>>>
 I just noticed how they changed the transition from the “top” tube to
 the twin rear stays. So different from my Platy. Mine sweep past the seat
 tube and melt into it. Not sure how I missed the design change. Beautiful
 bike and glad it’s getting close to your ideal setup…

 -Bill


 On Fri, Apr 19, 2024 at 12:43 PM tio ryan  wrote:

> Hope it's okay to give this thread a bump! I wanted to share how my
> setup has evolved over the past couple months.
>
> Although the previous setup *was* comfortable, I was experiencing
> fender rub through turns and it drove me crazy, so I removed the fenders.
> My thinking was I already have fenders on my other 2 bikes and I'd prefer
> not to commute in the rain with my Platypus, if possible. After removing
> the fenders, I changed the pedals. The sw taco pedals were much bigger 
> than
> I needed and they were getting in the way with the low bb on this bike. I
> switched the pedals out for sw tiny bubbly pedals I was using on my
> Kuwahara. I also swapped the b17 for a regal I scored off this list from
> Julian. For aesthetics, I polished the seat post and shellacked the
> chainstay protector.
>
> From the beginning I knew I wanted a rear rack, so I finally ordered a
> shiny rear rack from Riv. It's getting warmer here and I'll soon need to
> switch over to a pannier for my daily commute. I wanted the cockpit to be
> more sporty, so I ordered a 60mm Nitto 90-190 stem and Ahearne Map bars
> which did the trick splendidly. It's such a pleasant change from the
> tosco/tallux combo the bike came with. Finally, I removed the basket from
> the campee rack as I no longer had a need for it on this bike.
>
> Here's how my Platypus is looking now:
> [image: platy2.jpeg]
> I'll add the ferrule back to the derailer cable once I settle on the
> thumb shifter. It's a suntour power ratchet for now.
> On Friday, January 12, 2024 at 9:25:45 AM UTC-5 tio ryan wrote:
>
>> Thrilled to be part of the Riv family! I just commuted to work on my
>> Platy and was smiling ear to ear the entire way. I even got a friendly
>> ding-ding from a fellow Riv rider traveling in the opposite direction 
>> (I've
>> seen a few others here in Brooklyn over the years). I'm sure more changes
>> will come with time, I'm curious to see myself how it'll look in a year 
>> or
>> two. In the near future, I know I'd like to add a rear rack, or maybe a
>> bag.
>>
>> Steve, that's exactly what it is! I'm not even sure who makes this
>> particular one, but it had been strapped to my old man's Hardrock since 
>> the
>> early 90s. It's quite nice inverted on a step-thru since the underside of
>> the bag has a reinforced/padded strap that's very comfortable to sit on, 
>> or
>> to rest your feet. It also doesn't hurt that it can fit some tools as I'm
>> still dialing in my saddle/bar heights & angles. It was this
>>  

[RBW] Re: TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Ted Durant]

I just received a box of tubes that I ordered from Rene Herse, so here's my 
1-ride review.

Bike and rider weight is about 70kg/150lbs.

First impression ... they are crazy small and light. Clear plastic tubes 
with shiny metal valve stems and "Rene Herse blue" caps - nice touch! 
Unfolding them they seem fragile, especially the valve stem junction.

I ordered some 700x20-32 and 650x45-68. I installed the 700c tubes on my 
Waterford, which has 32mm Stampede Pass EL tires on DT TK-540 rims with 
Velox rim tape. The rear tire is fairly new and had a bit over 500km on it. 
It had been reinstalled a few times (March is a bad time for flats in WI!). 
The front tire is a year old, probably has 3-4000km on it. Both tires come 
off the rim and go back on without tire levers. The tubes are a tight fit 
on the rim and have to be stretched a bit to get around the rim. The tires 
popped right back on, and I inflated to 60 psi to seat the beads, then 
backed off to 45psi. On the second wheel the tube/stem interface 
immediately cracked and I had to grab a 3rd tube. I don't know if that was 
a bad tube or user error. No tire lever, but it's possible I didn't push 
the stem up into the tire enough to ensure the tube wasn't trapped by the 
bead. Given how fragile they feel, it seems it won't take much to cause 
that to happen.

First subjective observation - I can really feel the weight reduction 
handling the wheels. Noticeably less inertia around the perimeter.

First ride was 100km of road riding across the north side of Milwaukee 
(urban riding) through the western suburbs and exurbs to some rural roads 
around Holy Hill. At 900m of climbing, it's a pretty hilly ride but not 
crazy. Some of the road surfaces are beautiful, freshly paved goodness. 
Others are, well, lunar. I often take my Breadwinner out there for its 48mm 
tires. 

Immediate second subjective observation is that the tires sound different. 
There's a "whoosh whoosh" that sounds like nice tubulars. Third subjective 
observation is that the bumps feel and sound different, more "thwip thwhip" 
than "thump thump". Third subjective observation is that it FEELS like the 
tires return more energy from deflection, whether from bumps or, 
especially, when swerving suddenly to avoid an obstacle or making a quick 
acceleration. I have no idea if there really is less hysteresis loss, but 
it feels that way.

No flats today, but clear dry roads, even crossing the north side of the 
city, aren't usually an issue. 

So, I very much like the lightness and the feel of them, and the light blue 
stem caps are a nice touch that will look good on most of my bikes. I'm 
concerned about the fragility of the valve stem interface. No data or 
anecdotes, yet, on durability and ease of repair.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA

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[RBW] Re: Rivendells in South Korea

[ian m]

We've been talking about it! I was introduced to your channel by another 
member posting about it here and really enjoy your content. My wife works 
for our local bicycle advocacy org and we love seeing the infrastructure in 
Seoul. Keep up the great work!

On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 3:21:57 PM UTC-4 velomann wrote:

> Marcus,
> I found your Youtube channel about a month ago and it has been an absolute 
> delight. We have a pretty strong Rivendell contingent here in Portland, OR, 
> and I've been telling everyone about your channel.
>  Thank you for showing us your corner of the world. Honestly, South Korea 
> was not a place I would have considered visiting to cycle - until I started 
> watching your videos. And the coffee scene in Seoul looks fantastic!
>
> Michael Mann
>
> On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 10:10:28 AM UTC-7 probablyri...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello fellow Rivendell enthusiasts,
>>
>> I'm Marcus, I live in Seoul, South Korea and am probably riding one of my 
>> Rivs around. I recently started a Youtube channel and thought some people 
>> on here might be interested in seeing it. I have some bike checks of my 
>> Clem, Romulus, Atlantis and Velo Orange Polyvalent but it's mostly 
>> showcasing what cycling in Korea is like. 
>>
>> I hope it's ok to post here and hope you enjoy!  Probably Riding - 
>> YouTube 
>>
>> Thanks for all of your discussions on this group!
>>
>> Marcus
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[Patrick Moore]

+1 for this advice. Also, +1 for Bill as docent and road bike purchase
middleman.

On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 1:23 PM Ted Durant  wrote:

> On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 1:12:20 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!
> wrote:
>
> I am, right now, leaning toward a Gallup bike but will keep reading and
> learning. And right now, I’m heading out to do Tabatas training. I had to
> look it up. Promises to be the most miserable 4 minutes of my day.
>
> Wow, first we hear you are road bike curious, now you are doing tabata
> workouts. Leah is going super hard core on us.
>
> My 2 cents worth ... "road bike", as opposed to what you currently ride
> and love, is first and foremost about riding position. FWIW, my
> recommendation is to skip past Albastache and Mustache and go straight to
> drop bars. Start with them relatively high and close, so when your hands
> are on the tops you feel like your back is relaxed and comfy. Bernard
> Hinault, I think, said you should feel like you're playing piano on the
> tops. You then have the curves on top, where your hands are a bit wider
> apart and slightly forward, and your back should still be comfy. Then you
> go forward to the brake hoods. Now you should feel like you're more forward
> than you would be on your current bikes. But, if you're riding at a hard
> enough effort (we're not talking super hard here), the force on the pedals
> should be carrying enough of your weight that you're not having to hold
> yourself up on your hands. Next you go below the brake hoods to the
> farthest forward part of the drops. This is the speedy aero position. You
> won't have a low, flat back here until you've lowered your stem/bars quite
> a bit. But you should have a flat back and you should be putting a fair
> amount of force into the pedals. Finally, there are the flat parts of the
> drops, with your hands back a bit closer to you, which are a "cruising"
> location for me (and right next to my bar end shifters), low enough to be
> efficient but not fully stretched out. I've recently read comments from
> "racers" that if you spend any amount of time down there your bars are too
> high. Well, my bars are certainly too high by their standards, but mine are
> set up for me to be comfortable in every spot. Very important: in EVERY
> position you should not be gripping the bar or brake hood tightly, you
> should have a very loose grip and not be bearing too much weight there. I
> typically am very slightly pulling up on the brake hoods or drops to
> counteract the pedaling force of the opposite leg. Also, you should ALWAYS
> have at least a slight bend in your elbows in every position. If you are
> locking your elbows something is wrong with the position and you're doing
> bad things to your wrist and shoulders and neck.
>
> General rule of thumb for starting out, have the tops of the bars maybe an
> inch above saddle height or, if you're already pretty flexible in the heaps
> and low back, level with the saddle. Put the back of an elbow at the front
> of the saddle and stretch your finger tips toward the handlebars. They
> should just touch the back of the handlebars at the stem. Maybe a little
> closer if you're tight, a little farther if you're flexible. Somebody
> recommended Noodle bars, which I heartily endorse, as that's what I have on
> most of my bikes. I like them because 1) the curves are generous 2) there's
> a little rise in the top curve, making them very comfy in that area) and 3)
> there's a fair amount of reach and drop, so you have a good range of
> positions. That last part is key for me on long rides. Sometimes I'm riding
> hard and need the long and low positions. Sometimes I'm taking it easy and
> need the high and near positions.
>
> I won't opine much on "which bike", because once you figure out your fit
> criteria, any bike that allows you to have that position will work fine. I
> have my Sam Hillbornes set up almost identically to my custom Waterford ST
> and Rivendell Road, except on the Riv Road the handlebars are a bit farther
> away and lower.
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee WI USA
>
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> .
>


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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[Patrick Moore]

As someone else said, skip the scruples and just try drop bars. They're
*comfortable*, which is (I assert) the reason why they've been used for
well over 100 years.

Riders don't use drops because their bars are positioned far too low; the
hoods position on modern bikes is like the hooks position on "traditional"
road bikes.

I've not used Albastaches but I've used many, many, Moustache bars and
nope, not like drops. You might end up hating drops, but please try a few.

Patrick "38 cm Maes Parallel road, 42 cm Maes Parallel dirt" Moore

On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 3:07 PM Leah Peterson 
wrote:

> I promise not to be offended by a great wave of advice coming my way here
> - I have asked for it and you all have kindly delivered.
>
> Ok, ok….I really will consider drop bars. But I do wonder…everyone says
> they offer so many hand positions; but I only see people with their hands
> on the hoods. Are riders really utilizing different hand positions?
>
> Also, I saw a pic of an albastache with brake levers in the middle of the
> bar. Would this mimic the freedom of hand position changes a drop bar
> offers?
>
> I practiced tonight on my ride by grabbing the front of my Billie bars. It
> felt nice to be stretched out like that, but with no access to brakes or
> shifters from there I didn’t like to stay long. Unnerving.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 21, 2024, at 4:54 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
> 
> This is going to be a fun thread. Please don't take a great volume of
> advice as condescending; I think that this thread will elicit a very large
> amount of love for road bikes as a distinct genus of bicycle.
>
> I think you very particularly will benefit a great deal from the right
> road bike and that once you get things basically sorted you will find that
> you enjoy it immensely for the kind of riding you describe. There is a
> perfection of fit and feel and a real pleasure in riding a well set up
> traditional road bike -- I don't mean racing bike -- that you don't find
> with other combinations of frame, saddle, bar, and their relative
> positions. Really, this sort of setup on the right sort of frame is *more* 
> comfortable,
> *more* natural, *more* pleasant for energetic riding than other setups;
> at least, I've always found it so, and there's a reason why the traditional
> road bike was developed so quickly after the chain-driven safety was
> invented and why it has remained largely the same for going on for 150
> years.
>
> Note: I don't say that *everyone* who rides energetically should have a
> road bike, but everyone who does so and can try ought at least to give one
> a try. Again, there is an efficiency and comfort -- really, a "fit" like
> that of a custom suit or perfect tool -- offered by an intelligently spec'd
> and set up road bike that, you don't -- or at least, *I don't,* -- get
> with any other sort of bike.
>
> Me, based on my experience, I'd certainly start by keeping my eye out for
> a used Roadeo or Riv Road or LongLow or Ram or Heron. But for the final and
> perfect version, I'd not close my mind a priori to other makes. I am
> guessing, but I would not be surprised if, after your usual rapid learning
> cycle, this time with a road bike, you end up with a custom. My favorite
> bike of all time out of several scores is a custom Riv Road, but I've owned
> 2 other Riv Road customs plus a Ram (and the Sam) not to mention many other
> road bikes, and I've sold them all on to finally get what for me is belated
> perfection in the 2 Matthews customs  -- tho' these used the Rivs as
> general design templates.
>
> I rode the gofast Riv fixie road bike to and from church today with the
> usual annoying NE winds while inbound N and E and the usual SW winds on
> return N and W. For the umpteen millionth time I remarked to myself at how
> pleasant it was to be able to drop "intuitively" into the hooks when
> turning into a wind, or to grab the long (Maes Parallel) ramps when
> pushing, butt-back and elbows bent, up an incline, or sitting up and
> holding the flats or the flat/ramp transition and spinning when the wind
> became a tailwind.
>
> I've certainly passed my speed demon days, but there remains a very
> distinct pleasure in riding energetically -- for me, particularly on hills
> and against winds -- on the perfectly set up road bike, and I have enough
> experience to know that I would not enjoy this nearly as much on anything
> else.
>
> *Bon chance!*
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 1:33 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
> jonasandle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I’m starting to wonder about a roadbike. But it has to be a Rivendell
>> roadbike because I’m loyal and all that. Anyway, I don’t know that the
>> Roadini really offers enough of a change for me. I have no idea what is
>> going on with the Gallup. Then there’s the Roadeo - that one looks great
>> but there’s a 2 year wait, unless I can find one used. Which would be
>> ideal.
>>
>> Who rides their Rivbike in club rides and what do you 

Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[luckyturnip]

Leah,Did I miss the part where you got a professional fitting somewhere local to you and then ordered a Custom Riv Road just for you? Heck, you could build a step thru custom Riv Road if you wanted! I bet that will be a beautiful bike. Yours, Riv Sister Liz On Apr 21, 2024, at 14:29, Chris Halasz  wrote:I see many here of the relatively long torso to short inseam chromosomal group recommending square frames (top tube similar to seat tube) geometries. I wonder if that will work for Leah. This never worked for my 5' 5" wife. The only non-custom dropped bar bike she ever fit decently on was the smallest of the Bleriots (49cm?) with 650b wheels to limit toe clip overlap (TCO), and that only worked with a maximally extended 50mm Technomic stem. We at one point purchased a Gunnar 50cm frame with nice short top tube. Upon receiving the frame, I realized it had something like a 75 degree seat tube, which would not work with my wife's long femurs, no matter the then available setback seat posts. So I recommend the *smallest* (i.e. shortest) sloping top tubed frame that will elevate the bars as much as possible, and discount threadless ahead-type forks and stems, allowing for plenty of elevation of the bars, and recommend no larger that 650b wheels and not-too-chunky (38mm max) tires to limit TCO. (I also don't recommend a cyclocross frame unless you really like standing over exposed top tube cables that are wiped clean by your shorts.)Unless, Leah, you have a long torso compared to your inseam, then you may ignore! And we all are anxious to see what you end up with. Personally? I'd love to hear how you drop the whole pack on a custom-painted Roaduno. Cheers ChrisSB, CAOn Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 2:20:57 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:As someone else said, skip the scruples and just try drop bars. They're comfortable, which is (I assert) the reason why they've been used for well over 100 years. Riders don't use drops because their bars are positioned far too low; the hoods position on modern bikes is like the hooks position on "traditional" road bikes. I've not used Albastaches but I've used many, many, Moustache bars and nope, not like drops. You might end up hating drops, but please try a few.Patrick "38 cm Maes Parallel road, 42 cm Maes Parallel dirt" MooreOn Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 3:07 PM Leah Peterson  wrote:I promise not to be offended by a great wave of advice coming my way here - I have asked for it and you all have kindly delivered. Ok, ok….I really will consider drop bars. But I do wonder…everyone says they offer so many hand positions; but I only see people with their hands on the hoods. Are riders really utilizing different hand positions? Also, I saw a pic of an albastache with brake levers in the middle of the bar. Would this mimic the freedom of hand position changes a drop bar offers? I practiced tonight on my ride by grabbing the front of my Billie bars. It felt nice to be stretched out like that, but with no access to brakes or shifters from there I didn’t like to stay long. Unnerving.Sent from my iPhoneOn Apr 21, 2024, at 4:54 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:This is going to be a fun thread. Please don't take a great volume of advice as condescending; I think that this thread will elicit a very large amount of love for road bikes as a distinct genus of bicycle.I think you very particularly will benefit a great deal from the right road bike and that once you get things basically sorted you will find that you enjoy it immensely for the kind of riding you describe. There is a perfection of fit and feel and a real pleasure in riding a well set up traditional road bike -- I don't mean racing bike -- that you don't find with other combinations of frame, saddle, bar, and their relative positions. Really, this sort of setup on the right sort of frame is more comfortable, more natural, more pleasant for energetic riding than other setups; at least, I've always found it so, and there's a reason why the traditional road bike was developed so quickly after the chain-driven safety was invented and why it has remained largely the same for going on for 150 years.Note: I don't say that everyone who rides energetically should have a road bike, but everyone who does so and can try ought at least to give one a try. Again, there is an efficiency and comfort -- really, a "fit" like that of a custom suit or perfect tool -- offered by an intelligently spec'd and set up road bike that, you don't -- or at least, I don't, -- get with any other sort of bike.Me, based on my experience, I'd certainly start by keeping my eye out for a used Roadeo or Riv Road or LongLow or Ram or Heron. But for the final and perfect version, I'd not close my mind a priori to other makes. I am guessing, but I would not be surprised if, after your usual rapid learning cycle, this time with a road bike, you end up with a custom. My favorite bike of all time out of several scores is a custom Riv Road, but I've owned 

Re: [RBW] Re: Clem Chainstay Ding Peer Review Request

[Chris Halasz]

Patrick, 

If Grant can ride a 64cm with an 85cm PBH 
, 
you should be fine on a 59cm frame (assuming you can do so without drop 
bars). 

I'm happily on the 64cm with an 89cm PBH; I used to ride a 62cm Rivendell 
Road Standard, a 61 Bleriot, and a 60cm Bombadil. 

- Chris 

On Thursday, April 18, 2024 at 2:55:36 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Thanks, Dave. I think I might fall between sizes, between the 52 and the 
> 59 and, inclined to go small, the 52 alas is spec'd for 650B instead of my 
> preferred 700C. But perhaps a 59 would be alright as long as I don't want a 
> drop bar.* I don't know my PBH but a 60 X 56 c-c fits perfectly with 9 cm 
> stem and fistful of seatpost -- 4/3 scale Asian build with more of height 
> in torso.
>
> But if the 52 and 650B, good to know that it can take ~58s with fenders.
>
> * And my daydreams of a Clem have it built with some sort of sweepback 
> bar, but that too is a question as every bar I've used except standard 
> drops hurts my left palm.
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 18, 2024 at 11:25 AM DavidP  wrote:
>
>> ... Patrick, the Clem can do tires up to 2.6 or ~2.25 fendered. The 
>> Platypus can do ~2.1-2.2"; mine's running VO 63mm fenders over those 2" 
>> GravelKings.
>>
>> -Dave
>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Craigslist, etc 2024

[Josh C]

It's a nice looking bike

On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 1:09:16 PM UTC-4 zangt...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hey, that's me!  ;-)
> Thanks for posting this here.
>
> On Tuesday, April 16, 2024 at 9:54:51 AM UTC-7 Matti wrote:
>
> Nice Riv Long Low in Seattle...
>
> https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/bik/d/lynnwood-rivendell-longlow-59-cm-joe/7737587739.html
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Clem Chainstay Ding Peer Review Request

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Chris, good to know that I can probably ride a size that takes 700C
wheels. This information goes to the archive. Yes, if I get a Clem it would
be to use it with sweep-back or "tourist" bars of some sort.


On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 3:45 PM Chris Halasz  wrote:

> Patrick,
>
> If Grant can ride a 64cm with an 85cm PBH
> ,
> you should be fine on a 59cm frame (assuming you can do so without drop
> bars).
>
> I'm happily on the 64cm with an 89cm PBH; I used to ride a 62cm Rivendell
> Road Standard, a 61 Bleriot, and a 60cm Bombadil.
>
> - Chris
>
> On Thursday, April 18, 2024 at 2:55:36 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Dave. I think I might fall between sizes, between the 52 and the
>> 59 and, inclined to go small, the 52 alas is spec'd for 650B instead of my
>> preferred 700C. But perhaps a 59 would be alright as long as I don't want a
>> drop bar.* I don't know my PBH but a 60 X 56 c-c fits perfectly with 9 cm
>> stem and fistful of seatpost -- 4/3 scale Asian build with more of height
>> in torso.
>>
>> But if the 52 and 650B, good to know that it can take ~58s with fenders.
>>
>> * And my daydreams of a Clem have it built with some sort of sweepback
>> bar, but that too is a question as every bar I've used except standard
>> drops hurts my left palm.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 18, 2024 at 11:25 AM DavidP  wrote:
>>
>>> ... Patrick, the Clem can do tires up to 2.6 or ~2.25 fendered. The
>>> Platypus can do ~2.1-2.2"; mine's running VO 63mm fenders over those 2"
>>> GravelKings.
>>>
>>> -Dave
>>
>> --
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> .
>


-- 

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---

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[RBW] Re: Rivendells in South Korea

[Marcus Gomersall]

Thanks for watching. I appreciate it. Not many Rivs here but a growing 
contingent of people who ride wide tired steel bikes that can carry stuff. 
There is some very nice cycling infrastructure here, mostly geared towards 
leisure cycling. My favourite is how easy it is to get my bike out of the 
city via public transport. Took the subway out of Seoul for some bike 
camping with 10 others this weekend, which was fun. They were curious about 
the Clem. A video of that ride is next!

On Monday 22 April 2024 at 07:20:07 UTC+9 Josh C wrote:

> Yep, someone on here started a thread about your videos, and I've been 
> watching since. Love em. Can't say enough good things about them. It's a 
> nice glimpse into life in South Korea + cool bikes. You're also doing many 
> of the same things my friends and I like to do; ride around town, get 
> coffee, food, hit a park, and the like. When your videos pop up, I save 
> them for a day off, morning coffee vid. Thanks for doing it. 
>
> On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 4:31:44 PM UTC-4 ian m wrote:
>
>> We've been talking about it! I was introduced to your channel by another 
>> member posting about it here and really enjoy your content. My wife works 
>> for our local bicycle advocacy org and we love seeing the infrastructure in 
>> Seoul. Keep up the great work!
>>
>> On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 3:21:57 PM UTC-4 velomann wrote:
>>
>>> Marcus,
>>> I found your Youtube channel about a month ago and it has been an 
>>> absolute delight. We have a pretty strong Rivendell contingent here in 
>>> Portland, OR, and I've been telling everyone about your channel.
>>>  Thank you for showing us your corner of the world. Honestly, South 
>>> Korea was not a place I would have considered visiting to cycle - until I 
>>> started watching your videos. And the coffee scene in Seoul looks fantastic!
>>>
>>> Michael Mann
>>>
>>> On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 10:10:28 AM UTC-7 probablyri...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hello fellow Rivendell enthusiasts,

 I'm Marcus, I live in Seoul, South Korea and am probably riding one of 
 my Rivs around. I recently started a Youtube channel and thought some 
 people on here might be interested in seeing it. I have some bike checks 
 of 
 my Clem, Romulus, Atlantis and Velo Orange Polyvalent but it's mostly 
 showcasing what cycling in Korea is like. 

 I hope it's ok to post here and hope you enjoy!  Probably Riding - 
 YouTube 

 Thanks for all of your discussions on this group!

 Marcus

>>>

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[RBW] Re: TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Chris Fly]

Hi Ted,

I'd be curious if you came off butyl or latex tubes prior? guess I'm just 
not that convinced the TPUs are worth the extra price over latex (at least 
the price of the RH versions)..

Thanks,
Chris 

On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 12:49:27 PM UTC-7 Ted Durant wrote:

> I just received a box of tubes that I ordered from Rene Herse, so here's 
> my 1-ride review.
>
> Bike and rider weight is about 70kg/150lbs.
>
> First impression ... they are crazy small and light. Clear plastic tubes 
> with shiny metal valve stems and "Rene Herse blue" caps - nice touch! 
> Unfolding them they seem fragile, especially the valve stem junction.
>
> I ordered some 700x20-32 and 650x45-68. I installed the 700c tubes on my 
> Waterford, which has 32mm Stampede Pass EL tires on DT TK-540 rims with 
> Velox rim tape. The rear tire is fairly new and had a bit over 500km on it. 
> It had been reinstalled a few times (March is a bad time for flats in WI!). 
> The front tire is a year old, probably has 3-4000km on it. Both tires come 
> off the rim and go back on without tire levers. The tubes are a tight fit 
> on the rim and have to be stretched a bit to get around the rim. The tires 
> popped right back on, and I inflated to 60 psi to seat the beads, then 
> backed off to 45psi. On the second wheel the tube/stem interface 
> immediately cracked and I had to grab a 3rd tube. I don't know if that was 
> a bad tube or user error. No tire lever, but it's possible I didn't push 
> the stem up into the tire enough to ensure the tube wasn't trapped by the 
> bead. Given how fragile they feel, it seems it won't take much to cause 
> that to happen.
>
> First subjective observation - I can really feel the weight reduction 
> handling the wheels. Noticeably less inertia around the perimeter.
>
> First ride was 100km of road riding across the north side of Milwaukee 
> (urban riding) through the western suburbs and exurbs to some rural roads 
> around Holy Hill. At 900m of climbing, it's a pretty hilly ride but not 
> crazy. Some of the road surfaces are beautiful, freshly paved goodness. 
> Others are, well, lunar. I often take my Breadwinner out there for its 48mm 
> tires. 
>
> Immediate second subjective observation is that the tires sound different. 
> There's a "whoosh whoosh" that sounds like nice tubulars. Third subjective 
> observation is that the bumps feel and sound different, more "thwip thwhip" 
> than "thump thump". Third subjective observation is that it FEELS like the 
> tires return more energy from deflection, whether from bumps or, 
> especially, when swerving suddenly to avoid an obstacle or making a quick 
> acceleration. I have no idea if there really is less hysteresis loss, but 
> it feels that way.
>
> No flats today, but clear dry roads, even crossing the north side of the 
> city, aren't usually an issue. 
>
> So, I very much like the lightness and the feel of them, and the light 
> blue stem caps are a nice touch that will look good on most of my bikes. 
> I'm concerned about the fragility of the valve stem interface. No data or 
> anecdotes, yet, on durability and ease of repair.
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee WI USA
>

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Re: [RBW] Rack(s) for Clem

[Igor]

How's the Clem handle with some low riders? I've got a set of Gilles 
Berthoud that I could use for some front-loaded? otherwise on the rear 
they'll go

On Friday, April 19, 2024 at 3:36:42 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> I've used various Tubus racks on wide-stayed frames and, because they are 
> tubular steel, they can be spread without fear of damage. Also, Tubus makes 
> various little fitments that allow you to attach a rack to frames that 
> might otherwise interfere with ordinary attachment hardware and methods.
>
> As a plus, Tubus racks have very high load ratings; for years I carried 
> very heavy rear loads on very light Flys.
>
> Patrick "owned very many Tubus racks; currently Tubus stainless steel Fly 
> modified by S Bilenky for 26"-wheel Matthews commuter/errand custom" Moore
>
> On Fri, Apr 19, 2024 at 6:16 AM Igor  wrote:
>
>> What racks do folks like for their Clem? I am selling my campee racks 
>> because they are not a good fit on the wider-dropouts of a Clem, and I'd 
>> like something simpler for rear.
>>
>> 1 for my wife, 1 for me (We both will have a Clem soon...orange one 
>> coming for me :D )
>>
>> I am looking at the RB14 and also the Rivendell Big Rack. I'm probably OK 
>> with just a saddle bag, and she may want panniers, so I figure the Big Rack 
>> for her, but maybe some other options out there to consider?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> -- 
>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
> services
>
>
> ---
>
> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>
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>
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>

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[RBW] Re: Ordaho, Desert Shenanigans Loop- Trip Report

[John Bokman]

Super Cool! Thanks for posting Diana. It is indeed a splendid part of the 
World.

John
Portland, OR

On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 7:52:04 AM UTC-7 diana@gmail.com wrote:

> [image: PXL_20230708_195428168.jpg]
> ^end picture, dirt people. 
>
> Apologies for the odd way of posting. I still have NOT figured out how to 
> post more than a single picture (which is an improvement from before when I 
> used a google photo link).
> On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 7:50:04 AM UTC-7 Diana H wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> [image: PXL_20230708_125055855.jpg]
>> Day 7 picture - I didn't mention we rode past portions of the OR Trail. 
>> Amazingly cool!
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[RichS]

Leah, one more thought building on the Sam, Homer, Ram, etc. suggestions. 
The periwinkle color samples Will showed in the Friday Riv newsletter 
strikes me as a color that is right in your wheelhouse. I know one of the 
country bikes is not at the top of your wanted list, but I believe you 
could build a reasonably light (23-24lbs.?), zippy periwinkle Sam rolling 
on RH or Continental 5000 32mm tires and you'd be at the front!

Full disclosure: I have a Sam with 32mm Grand Bois Cypress tires:-))) Good 
luck and have fun with your search.

Best,
Rich in ATL

On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 5:42:41 PM UTC-4 Lucky wrote:

> Leah,
>
> Did I miss the part where you got a professional fitting somewhere local 
> to you and then ordered a Custom Riv Road just for you? Heck, you could 
> build a step thru custom Riv Road if you wanted! I bet that will be a 
> beautiful bike. 
> Yours, Riv Sister Liz 
>
> On Apr 21, 2024, at 14:29, Chris Halasz  wrote:
>
> I see many here of the relatively long torso to short inseam chromosomal 
> group recommending square frames (top tube similar to seat tube) 
> geometries. I wonder if that will work for Leah. 
>
>
> This never worked for my 5' 5" wife. The only non-custom dropped bar bike 
> she ever fit decently on was the smallest of the Bleriots (49cm?) with 650b 
> wheels to limit toe clip overlap (TCO), and that only worked with a 
> maximally extended 50mm Technomic stem. 
>
> We at one point purchased a Gunnar 50cm frame with nice short top tube. 
> Upon receiving the frame, I realized it had something like a 75 degree seat 
> tube, which would not work with my wife's long femurs, no matter the then 
> available setback seat posts. 
>
> So I recommend the *smallest* (i.e. shortest) sloping top tubed frame that 
> will elevate the bars as much as possible, and discount threadless 
> ahead-type forks and stems, allowing for plenty of elevation of the bars, 
> and recommend no larger that 650b wheels and not-too-chunky (38mm max) 
> tires to limit TCO. 
>
> (I also don't recommend a cyclocross frame unless you really like standing 
> over exposed top tube cables that are wiped clean by your shorts.)
>
> Unless, Leah, you have a long torso compared to your inseam, then you may 
> ignore! 
>
> And we all are anxious to see what you end up with. Personally? I'd love 
> to hear how you drop the whole pack on a custom-painted Roaduno. 
>
> Cheers 
>
> Chris
> SB, CA
>
> On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 2:20:57 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> As someone else said, skip the scruples and just try drop bars. They're 
>> *comfortable*, which is (I assert) the reason why they've been used for 
>> well over 100 years. 
>>
>> Riders don't use drops because their bars are positioned far too low; the 
>> hoods position on modern bikes is like the hooks position on "traditional" 
>> road bikes. 
>>
>> I've not used Albastaches but I've used many, many, Moustache bars and 
>> nope, not like drops. You might end up hating drops, but please try a few.
>>
>> Patrick "38 cm Maes Parallel road, 42 cm Maes Parallel dirt" Moore
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 3:07 PM Leah Peterson  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I promise not to be offended by a great wave of advice coming my way 
>>> here - I have asked for it and you all have kindly delivered. 
>>>
>>> Ok, ok….I really will consider drop bars. But I do wonder…everyone says 
>>> they offer so many hand positions; but I only see people with their hands 
>>> on the hoods. Are riders really utilizing different hand positions? 
>>>
>>> Also, I saw a pic of an albastache with brake levers in the middle of 
>>> the bar. Would this mimic the freedom of hand position changes a drop bar 
>>> offers? 
>>>
>>> I practiced tonight on my ride by grabbing the front of my Billie bars. 
>>> It felt nice to be stretched out like that, but with no access to brakes or 
>>> shifters from there I didn’t like to stay long. Unnerving.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Apr 21, 2024, at 4:54 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> This is going to be a fun thread. Please don't take a great volume of 
>>> advice as condescending; I think that this thread will elicit a very large 
>>> amount of love for road bikes as a distinct genus of bicycle.
>>>
>>> I think you very particularly will benefit a great deal from the right 
>>> road bike and that once you get things basically sorted you will find that 
>>> you enjoy it immensely for the kind of riding you describe. There is a 
>>> perfection of fit and feel and a real pleasure in riding a well set up 
>>> traditional road bike -- I don't mean racing bike -- that you don't find 
>>> with other combinations of frame, saddle, bar, and their relative 
>>> positions. Really, this sort of setup on the right sort of frame is 
>>> *more* comfortable, *more* natural, *more* pleasant for energetic 
>>> riding than other setups; at least, I've always found it so, and there's a 
>>> reason why the traditional road bike was developed so quickly 

Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[Leah Peterson]

I promise not to be offended by a great wave of advice coming my way here - I have asked for it and you all have kindly delivered. Ok, ok….I really will consider drop bars. But I do wonder…everyone says they offer so many hand positions; but I only see people with their hands on the hoods. Are riders really utilizing different hand positions? Also, I saw a pic of an albastache with brake levers in the middle of the bar. Would this mimic the freedom of hand position changes a drop bar offers? I practiced tonight on my ride by grabbing the front of my Billie bars. It felt nice to be stretched out like that, but with no access to brakes or shifters from there I didn’t like to stay long. Unnerving.Sent from my iPhoneOn Apr 21, 2024, at 4:54 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:This is going to be a fun thread. Please don't take a great volume of advice as condescending; I think that this thread will elicit a very large amount of love for road bikes as a distinct genus of bicycle.I think you very particularly will benefit a great deal from the right road bike and that once you get things basically sorted you will find that you enjoy it immensely for the kind of riding you describe. There is a perfection of fit and feel and a real pleasure in riding a well set up traditional road bike -- I don't mean racing bike -- that you don't find with other combinations of frame, saddle, bar, and their relative positions. Really, this sort of setup on the right sort of frame is more comfortable, more natural, more pleasant for energetic riding than other setups; at least, I've always found it so, and there's a reason why the traditional road bike was developed so quickly after the chain-driven safety was invented and why it has remained largely the same for going on for 150 years.Note: I don't say that everyone who rides energetically should have a road bike, but everyone who does so and can try ought at least to give one a try. Again, there is an efficiency and comfort -- really, a "fit" like that of a custom suit or perfect tool -- offered by an intelligently spec'd and set up road bike that, you don't -- or at least, I don't, -- get with any other sort of bike.Me, based on my experience, I'd certainly start by keeping my eye out for a used Roadeo or Riv Road or LongLow or Ram or Heron. But for the final and perfect version, I'd not close my mind a priori to other makes. I am guessing, but I would not be surprised if, after your usual rapid learning cycle, this time with a road bike, you end up with a custom. My favorite bike of all time out of several scores is a custom Riv Road, but I've owned 2 other Riv Road customs plus a Ram (and the Sam) not to mention many other road bikes, and I've sold them all on to finally get what for me is belated perfection in the 2 Matthews customs  -- tho' these used the Rivs as general design templates.I rode the gofast Riv fixie road bike to and from church today with the usual annoying NE winds while inbound N and E and the usual SW winds on return N and W. For the umpteen millionth time I remarked to myself at how pleasant it was to be able to drop "intuitively" into the hooks when turning into a wind, or to grab the long (Maes Parallel) ramps when pushing, butt-back and elbows bent, up an incline, or sitting up and holding the flats or the flat/ramp transition and spinning when the wind became a tailwind. I've certainly passed my speed demon days, but there remains a very distinct pleasure in riding energetically -- for me, particularly on hills and against winds -- on the perfectly set up road bike, and I have enough experience to know that I would not enjoy this nearly as much on anything else.Bon chance!On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 1:33 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!  wrote:I’m starting to wonder about a roadbike. But it has to be a Rivendell roadbike because I’m loyal and all that. Anyway, I don’t know that the Roadini really offers enough of a change for me. I have no idea what is going on with the Gallup. Then there’s the Roadeo - that one looks great but there’s a 2 year wait, unless I can find one used. Which would be ideal. Who rides their Rivbike in club rides and what do you ride? Who has a Roadeo that never gets ridden and wants to sell it? I don’t even know what size I’d be but I’m an 81 PBH. Must I ride drop bars? I never have before. I know nothing about any of this. Clearly.Note: I still like my raspberry Platypus for club riding but it does take a toll on me in wind. I recently got a shorter-height, longer-reach stem which marginally helped, but our high spring winds are taking it out of me. I did a club ride yesterday with my women’s group and my heart rate was in the 170s the whole 26.3 miles. It was brutal. Everyone else agreed it was a hard ride, but I felt like it was harder on me than them, and I’m the youngest and probably the most fit. Leah



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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[Patrick Moore]

I generally look up to Garth's advice, but I'll contradict him here: the
point is not level or sloping top tube but saddle to bar relationship. My
"ideal" level tt/fist of sp size is 60X56 c-c but the most perfectest fit
of all is on that too-much described '99 Riv custom that has a 57 c-c st,
upsloping 57 cm tt with modestly extended ht, since this lets me get the
saddle in the right place and then wrt to the saddle, get the bar in the
right place. I've gotten near-perfect drop bar setups on miniscule 46 cm
frames with massive 58+ cm tts (mtb frames) tho' 46 and 58 are hardly ideal.

Second, yes, less air resistance is a great benefit of a lower and drop
bar, but there is another that IME is equally great, that you bring into
play additional muscles when you bend over. I find this every time I "slip"
into the hooks when turning into a headwind or slide way back on the saddle
when reaching an incline.



On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 2:38 PM Garth  wrote:

> Hooray for you Leah ! :-)
>
> I think a level top tube would suit you better in the long run as given a
> good fit, you'll be able to have a good starting point for bar height. Not
> too high, not too low. You're obliviously fit and flexible, so for road
> riding use that to your advantage, so to speak. Less air resistance, which
> is what you're running into, literally. From experience,  sloping TT's are
> fine if you want to the bars quite high, but if you want them at a more
> saddle level or below you may not be able to go low enough. It depends on
> the frame of course.
>
> A Homer before the TT's were sloped would also work as road bike in
> addition to the Roadeo. They were technically 1.5 degrees, not enough to
> care about given a proper fit.  Also Ramboullett frames would work.
>
> You have such a good level of fitness and sensibilities that you'll be
> fine, it'll work out as it comes.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[Patrick Moore]

+ 1 for road bikes and cataract surgery.

Patrick Moore, who has (has had?) both and now rides without glasses or
contacts with implanted plastic lenses.

On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 7:15 PM Leah Peterson 
wrote:

> Yes, George, 81cm , and here’s where I have to put a plug in for the
> cataract surgery. I prep those patients and they are my favorite surgeries
> because they are SO EASY and the results SO immediate that if you have been
> putting it off, run, don’t walk to the ophthalmologist. An IV is not
> required, you don’t even get undressed, there is no pain, it is 15 minutes
> and BOOM, you’re done.
>
> Ok, back to bikes…
>
> On Apr 20, 2024, at 5:12 PM, George Schick  wrote:
>
> Ryan - sorry.  I don't always see things as clearly with my aged
> ready-for-cataract surgery eyeballs.  Nevertheless, it bears repeating.
>
>
> On Saturday, April 20, 2024 at 4:06:11 PM UTC-5 Ryan wrote:
>
>> 81 PBH was mentioned
>>
>> On Saturday, April 20, 2024 at 4:04:52 PM UTC-5 Ryan wrote:
>>
>>> There ya go Leah!...Put yourself in Bill's more-than-capable hands and
>>> you won't go wrong!
>>>
>>> On Saturday, April 20, 2024 at 3:51:55 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 Leah

 My previous Roadeo was set up as a straight-ahead stripped down road
 bike, and I would have used that anyplace anybody rides a road bike.  After
 selling that, and while I was waiting for my new pink Roadeo, I used my
 Black Mountain Road in that stripped down road bike slot, and that bike was
 the deal of the century, IMO.  The RoadeoRosa revealed itself to be more
 than just a stripped down road bike: It has insisted to become my 700c
 randonneuse.

 Anyway, I did a very fast build on a Leo Roadini, last batch, and my
 best-ever brevet time was on that bike.  So I think it's doable.  The newer
 batch with its long reach brakes feels less "roadie".

 I can sympathize with the desire to run a Riv, but I'd also recommend
 casting a wider net, because smaller frame sized used road bikes can be had
 at a really good price.  Maybe if you start trolling Michigan craigslist
 and the next time I'm out in Wayne County for work I can come be your
 personal shopper.  :)

 Anything that can be set up with drop bars can probably also be set up
 with an albastache build, which may ease you in.  Also, having a
 placeholder road bike could free you up to put a deposit on a Roadeo and
 then you'll have both!

 Do let me know if you want more advice

 Bill Lindsay
 El Cerrito, CA

 On Saturday, April 20, 2024 at 12:33:50 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding
 Ding! wrote:

> I’m starting to wonder about a roadbike. But it has to be a Rivendell
> roadbike because I’m loyal and all that. Anyway, I don’t know that the
> Roadini really offers enough of a change for me. I have no idea what is
> going on with the Gallup. Then there’s the Roadeo - that one looks great
> but there’s a 2 year wait, unless I can find one used. Which would be
> ideal.
>
> Who rides their Rivbike in club rides and what do you ride? Who has a
> Roadeo that never gets ridden and wants to sell it? I don’t even know what
> size I’d be but I’m an 81 PBH. Must I ride drop bars? I never have before.
> I know nothing about any of this. Clearly.
>
> Note: I still like my raspberry Platypus for club riding but it does
> take a toll on me in wind. I recently got a shorter-height, longer-reach
> stem which marginally helped, but our high spring winds are taking it out
> of me. I did a club ride yesterday with my women’s group and my heart rate
> was in the 170s the whole 26.3 miles. It was brutal. Everyone else agreed
> it was a hard ride, but I felt like it was harder on me than them, and I’m
> the youngest and probably the most fit.
>
> Leah
>
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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[Ted Durant]

On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 4:07:47 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

Ok, ok….I really will consider drop bars. But I do wonder…everyone says 
they offer so many hand positions; but I only see people with their hands 
on the hoods. Are riders really utilizing different hand positions? 

Great question. Racers and wannabe racers as I noted set up their bikes 
with a big drop from saddle to bars and a shorter horizontal reach to the 
bars. And they spend almost all their time on the hoods. I roam all over 
the bars. Today's 100km somewhat hilly, fairly windy ride was a great 
example. Heading out into the wind I spent a fair amount of time on the 
drops and hoods, but I was not riding at a hard effort (averaged around 
22kph going out). Getting into the hills was a lot more time on the tops 
and the hoods, with a few standing climbs, working harder on the hills that 
got up to 15%. Coming home with a tail wind was a fair amount of time on 
the top curves, not riding too hard, enjoying the tail wind motor assist 
(and the net down hill). 
 

Also, I saw a pic of an albastache with brake levers in the middle of the 
bar. Would this mimic the freedom of hand position changes a drop bar 
offers? 


My experience has been that's not a great alternative. The wrist angles 
tend to be weird.
 

I practiced tonight on my ride by grabbing the front of my Billie bars. It 
felt nice to be stretched out like that, but with no access to brakes or 
shifters from there I didn’t like to stay long. Unnerving.


Understood! That's one reason why some people set up drop bars with 
cyclocross-inspired interrupter brake levers under the tops. I never have 
felt the need for that on road rides. If my hands are on the tops, I'm 
probably not going fast enough to need an immediate stop. 

Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[Chris Halasz]

I see many here of the relatively long torso to short inseam chromosomal 
group recommending square frames (top tube similar to seat tube) 
geometries. I wonder if that will work for Leah. 

This never worked for my 5' 5" wife. The only non-custom dropped bar bike 
she ever fit decently on was the smallest of the Bleriots (49cm?) with 650b 
wheels to limit toe clip overlap (TCO), and that only worked with a 
maximally extended 50mm Technomic stem. 

We at one point purchased a Gunnar 50cm frame with nice short top tube. 
Upon receiving the frame, I realized it had something like a 75 degree seat 
tube, which would not work with my wife's long femurs, no matter the then 
available setback seat posts. 

So I recommend the *smallest* (i.e. shortest) sloping top tubed frame that 
will elevate the bars as much as possible, and discount threadless 
ahead-type forks and stems, allowing for plenty of elevation of the bars, 
and recommend no larger that 650b wheels and not-too-chunky (38mm max) 
tires to limit TCO. 

(I also don't recommend a cyclocross frame unless you really like standing 
over exposed top tube cables that are wiped clean by your shorts.)

Unless, Leah, you have a long torso compared to your inseam, then you may 
ignore! 

And we all are anxious to see what you end up with. Personally? I'd love to 
hear how you drop the whole pack on a custom-painted Roaduno. 

Cheers 

Chris
SB, CA

On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 2:20:57 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> As someone else said, skip the scruples and just try drop bars. They're 
> *comfortable*, which is (I assert) the reason why they've been used for 
> well over 100 years. 
>
> Riders don't use drops because their bars are positioned far too low; the 
> hoods position on modern bikes is like the hooks position on "traditional" 
> road bikes. 
>
> I've not used Albastaches but I've used many, many, Moustache bars and 
> nope, not like drops. You might end up hating drops, but please try a few.
>
> Patrick "38 cm Maes Parallel road, 42 cm Maes Parallel dirt" Moore
>
> On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 3:07 PM Leah Peterson  wrote:
>
>> I promise not to be offended by a great wave of advice coming my way here 
>> - I have asked for it and you all have kindly delivered. 
>>
>> Ok, ok….I really will consider drop bars. But I do wonder…everyone says 
>> they offer so many hand positions; but I only see people with their hands 
>> on the hoods. Are riders really utilizing different hand positions? 
>>
>> Also, I saw a pic of an albastache with brake levers in the middle of the 
>> bar. Would this mimic the freedom of hand position changes a drop bar 
>> offers? 
>>
>> I practiced tonight on my ride by grabbing the front of my Billie bars. 
>> It felt nice to be stretched out like that, but with no access to brakes or 
>> shifters from there I didn’t like to stay long. Unnerving.
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Apr 21, 2024, at 4:54 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>> 
>> This is going to be a fun thread. Please don't take a great volume of 
>> advice as condescending; I think that this thread will elicit a very large 
>> amount of love for road bikes as a distinct genus of bicycle.
>>
>> I think you very particularly will benefit a great deal from the right 
>> road bike and that once you get things basically sorted you will find that 
>> you enjoy it immensely for the kind of riding you describe. There is a 
>> perfection of fit and feel and a real pleasure in riding a well set up 
>> traditional road bike -- I don't mean racing bike -- that you don't find 
>> with other combinations of frame, saddle, bar, and their relative 
>> positions. Really, this sort of setup on the right sort of frame is 
>> *more* comfortable, *more* natural, *more* pleasant for energetic riding 
>> than other setups; at least, I've always found it so, and there's a reason 
>> why the traditional road bike was developed so quickly after the 
>> chain-driven safety was invented and why it has remained largely the same 
>> for going on for 150 years.
>>
>> Note: I don't say that *everyone* who rides energetically should have a 
>> road bike, but everyone who does so and can try ought at least to give one 
>> a try. Again, there is an efficiency and comfort -- really, a "fit" like 
>> that of a custom suit or perfect tool -- offered by an intelligently spec'd 
>> and set up road bike that, you don't -- or at least, *I don't,* -- get 
>> with any other sort of bike.
>>
>> Me, based on my experience, I'd certainly start by keeping my eye out for 
>> a used Roadeo or Riv Road or LongLow or Ram or Heron. But for the final and 
>> perfect version, I'd not close my mind a priori to other makes. I am 
>> guessing, but I would not be surprised if, after your usual rapid learning 
>> cycle, this time with a road bike, you end up with a custom. My favorite 
>> bike of all time out of several scores is a custom Riv Road, but I've owned 
>> 2 other Riv Road customs plus a Ram (and the Sam) not to 

Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[eddietheflay]

They look dorky but with the right height stem something like Soma Condor 2 
bars can make drops more comfy than ever. If they are high enough you can 
comfortably ride on the tops, hoods, or drops. I just replaced Billie bars 
on two bikes with Condors. Steering is less twitchy with hands in front of 
the steering axis and braking can be done from the hoods and the drops. 
Depending on your fit, I would guess these variables could be had with 
normal drops.

https://www.somafab.com/archives/product/condor-2-handlebar

On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 2:29:24 PM UTC-7 Chris Halasz wrote:

> I see many here of the relatively long torso to short inseam chromosomal 
> group recommending square frames (top tube similar to seat tube) 
> geometries. I wonder if that will work for Leah. 
>
> This never worked for my 5' 5" wife. The only non-custom dropped bar bike 
> she ever fit decently on was the smallest of the Bleriots (49cm?) with 650b 
> wheels to limit toe clip overlap (TCO), and that only worked with a 
> maximally extended 50mm Technomic stem. 
>
> We at one point purchased a Gunnar 50cm frame with nice short top tube. 
> Upon receiving the frame, I realized it had something like a 75 degree seat 
> tube, which would not work with my wife's long femurs, no matter the then 
> available setback seat posts. 
>
> So I recommend the *smallest* (i.e. shortest) sloping top tubed frame that 
> will elevate the bars as much as possible, and discount threadless 
> ahead-type forks and stems, allowing for plenty of elevation of the bars, 
> and recommend no larger that 650b wheels and not-too-chunky (38mm max) 
> tires to limit TCO. 
>
> (I also don't recommend a cyclocross frame unless you really like standing 
> over exposed top tube cables that are wiped clean by your shorts.)
>
> Unless, Leah, you have a long torso compared to your inseam, then you may 
> ignore! 
>
> And we all are anxious to see what you end up with. Personally? I'd love 
> to hear how you drop the whole pack on a custom-painted Roaduno. 
>
> Cheers 
>
> Chris
> SB, CA
>
> On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 2:20:57 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> As someone else said, skip the scruples and just try drop bars. They're 
>> *comfortable*, which is (I assert) the reason why they've been used for 
>> well over 100 years. 
>>
>> Riders don't use drops because their bars are positioned far too low; the 
>> hoods position on modern bikes is like the hooks position on "traditional" 
>> road bikes. 
>>
>> I've not used Albastaches but I've used many, many, Moustache bars and 
>> nope, not like drops. You might end up hating drops, but please try a few.
>>
>> Patrick "38 cm Maes Parallel road, 42 cm Maes Parallel dirt" Moore
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 3:07 PM Leah Peterson  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I promise not to be offended by a great wave of advice coming my way 
>>> here - I have asked for it and you all have kindly delivered. 
>>>
>>> Ok, ok….I really will consider drop bars. But I do wonder…everyone says 
>>> they offer so many hand positions; but I only see people with their hands 
>>> on the hoods. Are riders really utilizing different hand positions? 
>>>
>>> Also, I saw a pic of an albastache with brake levers in the middle of 
>>> the bar. Would this mimic the freedom of hand position changes a drop bar 
>>> offers? 
>>>
>>> I practiced tonight on my ride by grabbing the front of my Billie bars. 
>>> It felt nice to be stretched out like that, but with no access to brakes or 
>>> shifters from there I didn’t like to stay long. Unnerving.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Apr 21, 2024, at 4:54 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> This is going to be a fun thread. Please don't take a great volume of 
>>> advice as condescending; I think that this thread will elicit a very large 
>>> amount of love for road bikes as a distinct genus of bicycle.
>>>
>>> I think you very particularly will benefit a great deal from the right 
>>> road bike and that once you get things basically sorted you will find that 
>>> you enjoy it immensely for the kind of riding you describe. There is a 
>>> perfection of fit and feel and a real pleasure in riding a well set up 
>>> traditional road bike -- I don't mean racing bike -- that you don't find 
>>> with other combinations of frame, saddle, bar, and their relative 
>>> positions. Really, this sort of setup on the right sort of frame is 
>>> *more* comfortable, *more* natural, *more* pleasant for energetic 
>>> riding than other setups; at least, I've always found it so, and there's a 
>>> reason why the traditional road bike was developed so quickly after the 
>>> chain-driven safety was invented and why it has remained largely the same 
>>> for going on for 150 years.
>>>
>>> Note: I don't say that *everyone* who rides energetically should have a 
>>> road bike, but everyone who does so and can try ought at least to give one 
>>> a try. Again, there is an efficiency and comfort -- really, a "fit" like 
>>> 

[RBW] Re: Rivendells in South Korea

[Josh C]

Yep, someone on here started a thread about your videos, and I've been 
watching since. Love em. Can't say enough good things about them. It's a 
nice glimpse into life in South Korea + cool bikes. You're also doing many 
of the same things my friends and I like to do; ride around town, get 
coffee, food, hit a park, and the like. When your videos pop up, I save 
them for a day off, morning coffee vid. Thanks for doing it. 

On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 4:31:44 PM UTC-4 ian m wrote:

> We've been talking about it! I was introduced to your channel by another 
> member posting about it here and really enjoy your content. My wife works 
> for our local bicycle advocacy org and we love seeing the infrastructure in 
> Seoul. Keep up the great work!
>
> On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 3:21:57 PM UTC-4 velomann wrote:
>
>> Marcus,
>> I found your Youtube channel about a month ago and it has been an 
>> absolute delight. We have a pretty strong Rivendell contingent here in 
>> Portland, OR, and I've been telling everyone about your channel.
>>  Thank you for showing us your corner of the world. Honestly, South Korea 
>> was not a place I would have considered visiting to cycle - until I started 
>> watching your videos. And the coffee scene in Seoul looks fantastic!
>>
>> Michael Mann
>>
>> On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 10:10:28 AM UTC-7 probablyri...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello fellow Rivendell enthusiasts,
>>>
>>> I'm Marcus, I live in Seoul, South Korea and am probably riding one of 
>>> my Rivs around. I recently started a Youtube channel and thought some 
>>> people on here might be interested in seeing it. I have some bike checks of 
>>> my Clem, Romulus, Atlantis and Velo Orange Polyvalent but it's mostly 
>>> showcasing what cycling in Korea is like. 
>>>
>>> I hope it's ok to post here and hope you enjoy!  Probably Riding - 
>>> YouTube 
>>>
>>> Thanks for all of your discussions on this group!
>>>
>>> Marcus
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Craigslist, etc 2024

[Josh C]

Nice looking Homer 61cm. 
https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/bik/d/seattle-rivendell-homer-hilson-revised/7732342937.html

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Re: [RBW] Re: Evening Spring Ride on the Clem

[Patrick Moore]

Welcome back, congratulations on the Clem, and thanks for the binocular
suggestion. I lean toward the Carson since its price is more in line with
my very occasional and casual use, and because it's so compact.

On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 11:09 AM Gordon Stam  wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Gordon Stam here. I used to post on this forum, or one like it (I
> recognize a few names) back in the mid 00s after I bought my Romulus. In
> the intervening years I drifted away from cycling (I developed a motorcycle
> habit) but I'm back with the purchase of a 59cm Clem Smith Jr frame which
> I've built into a parts bin special. I've been lurking for a month or so
> but this thread has three touchstones for me: the Clem, the Central Coast,
> and binoculars. Nice shots of your Clem in the trees Chris. I went to
> school at Cal Poly many years ago,
>
> ...
>
> Regarding binoculars check out the Maven C2 7x28. Maven makes good binos
> but a wee bit more expensive than those Carson. A better bino though. As
> far as taking them on a ride I just loop mine over my shoulder bandolier
> style (see below). With these upright bikes they ride against your chest,
> or side, pretty unobtrusively and are ready for viewing at a moments
> notice. I use paracord for a strap with a couple of slip knots for length
> adustment. This is the Maven B3 6x30. A step up from the C series but a
> right dandy unit. Costs less than a high end wheelset though!
>

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Re: [RBW] Rivendells in South Korea

[Patrick Moore]

It is very definitely permitted to post such interesting videos here;
thanks for doing so. I particularly enjoyed (out of the 2 I've watched) the
grocery shopping one. + 1 for riding a Riv to make mundane chores into
modest and wholly appealing adventures.

Please tell us where you are from, what you do, and why you are living in
Seoul?

Also, please tell us who makes your panniers and what the model is.

I do almost all my errands and commuting by bike (not that there's a great
deal to do, but =/< 600 miles per year on my car for the last many years),
but while these rides traverse pleasant routes they're not the sort that
merits videotaping. If I were say in Old Town Albuquerque it might be
different.

Others in interesting locales, please post videos of your own errand rides.

Patrick Moore, who lived in Old Town Quebec and remembers Empress
(Victoria!) market in Karachi where flies outnumbered (the thousands of)
people by many orders of magnitude..


On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 11:10 AM Marcus Gomersall <
probablyridingmyb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello fellow Rivendell enthusiasts,
>
> I'm Marcus, I live in Seoul, South Korea and am probably riding one of my
> Rivs around. I recently started a Youtube channel and thought some people
> on here might be interested in seeing it. I have some bike checks of my
> Clem, Romulus, Atlantis and Velo Orange Polyvalent but it's mostly
> showcasing what cycling in Korea is like.
>
> I hope it's ok to post here and hope you enjoy!  Probably Riding - YouTube
> 
>
> Thanks for all of your discussions on this group!
>
> Marcus
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Evening Spring Ride on the Clem

[Gordon Stam]

Thanks. The trails around here have dried out enough the get out and do 
some mountain bikey stuff and I have say the reports are true that the Clem 
is a pretty decent off roader. It really does seem to be kind of a 
do-it-all bike. No pics hower.

On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 4:50:35 PM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Welcome back, congratulations on the Clem, and thanks for the binocular 
> suggestion. I lean toward the Carson since its price is more in line with 
> my very occasional and casual use, and because it's so compact.
>
> On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 11:09 AM Gordon Stam  wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Gordon Stam here. I used to post on this forum, or one like it (I 
>> recognize a few names) back in the mid 00s after I bought my Romulus. In 
>> the intervening years I drifted away from cycling (I developed a motorcycle 
>> habit) but I'm back with the purchase of a 59cm Clem Smith Jr frame which 
>> I've built into a parts bin special. I've been lurking for a month or so 
>> but this thread has three touchstones for me: the Clem, the Central Coast, 
>> and binoculars. Nice shots of your Clem in the trees Chris. I went to 
>> school at Cal Poly many years ago,
>>
>> ... 
>>
>
>> Regarding binoculars check out the Maven C2 7x28. Maven makes good binos 
>> but a wee bit more expensive than those Carson. A better bino though. As 
>> far as taking them on a ride I just loop mine over my shoulder bandolier 
>> style (see below). With these upright bikes they ride against your chest, 
>> or side, pretty unobtrusively and are ready for viewing at a moments 
>> notice. I use paracord for a strap with a couple of slip knots for length 
>> adustment. This is the Maven B3 6x30. A step up from the C series but a 
>> right dandy unit. Costs less than a high end wheelset though!
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Craigslist, etc 2024

[exliontamer]

Nice Romulus in Nashville. My wife went to check it out today to see if 
she'd like it better than her 50cm Roadini (liked them evenly/didn't see 
the need to buy). It's the original owner and he was super nice. Had the og 
paperwork/reciepts etc. Hard to tell from the photos but it's the original 
Araya rims/105 hubs they came stock with. 
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1036883344709795/?ref=search_code=null_story_type=post=browse_serp%3A69370141-7f94-4e0e-87c2-7b6551e3b02c

On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 5:26:35 PM UTC-5 Josh C wrote:

> Nice looking Homer 61cm. 
>
> https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/bik/d/seattle-rivendell-homer-hilson-revised/7732342937.html
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[RichS]

Yet another thought Leah, building on the Sam, Homer, Ram, etc. 

On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 5:42:41 PM UTC-4 Lucky wrote:

> Leah,
>
> Did I miss the part where you got a professional fitting somewhere local 
> to you and then ordered a Custom Riv Road just for you? Heck, you could 
> build a step thru custom Riv Road if you wanted! I bet that will be a 
> beautiful bike. 
> Yours, Riv Sister Liz 
>
> On Apr 21, 2024, at 14:29, Chris Halasz  wrote:
>
> I see many here of the relatively long torso to short inseam chromosomal 
> group recommending square frames (top tube similar to seat tube) 
> geometries. I wonder if that will work for Leah. 
>
>
> This never worked for my 5' 5" wife. The only non-custom dropped bar bike 
> she ever fit decently on was the smallest of the Bleriots (49cm?) with 650b 
> wheels to limit toe clip overlap (TCO), and that only worked with a 
> maximally extended 50mm Technomic stem. 
>
> We at one point purchased a Gunnar 50cm frame with nice short top tube. 
> Upon receiving the frame, I realized it had something like a 75 degree seat 
> tube, which would not work with my wife's long femurs, no matter the then 
> available setback seat posts. 
>
> So I recommend the *smallest* (i.e. shortest) sloping top tubed frame that 
> will elevate the bars as much as possible, and discount threadless 
> ahead-type forks and stems, allowing for plenty of elevation of the bars, 
> and recommend no larger that 650b wheels and not-too-chunky (38mm max) 
> tires to limit TCO. 
>
> (I also don't recommend a cyclocross frame unless you really like standing 
> over exposed top tube cables that are wiped clean by your shorts.)
>
> Unless, Leah, you have a long torso compared to your inseam, then you may 
> ignore! 
>
> And we all are anxious to see what you end up with. Personally? I'd love 
> to hear how you drop the whole pack on a custom-painted Roaduno. 
>
> Cheers 
>
> Chris
> SB, CA
>
> On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 2:20:57 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> As someone else said, skip the scruples and just try drop bars. They're 
>> *comfortable*, which is (I assert) the reason why they've been used for 
>> well over 100 years. 
>>
>> Riders don't use drops because their bars are positioned far too low; the 
>> hoods position on modern bikes is like the hooks position on "traditional" 
>> road bikes. 
>>
>> I've not used Albastaches but I've used many, many, Moustache bars and 
>> nope, not like drops. You might end up hating drops, but please try a few.
>>
>> Patrick "38 cm Maes Parallel road, 42 cm Maes Parallel dirt" Moore
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 3:07 PM Leah Peterson  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I promise not to be offended by a great wave of advice coming my way 
>>> here - I have asked for it and you all have kindly delivered. 
>>>
>>> Ok, ok….I really will consider drop bars. But I do wonder…everyone says 
>>> they offer so many hand positions; but I only see people with their hands 
>>> on the hoods. Are riders really utilizing different hand positions? 
>>>
>>> Also, I saw a pic of an albastache with brake levers in the middle of 
>>> the bar. Would this mimic the freedom of hand position changes a drop bar 
>>> offers? 
>>>
>>> I practiced tonight on my ride by grabbing the front of my Billie bars. 
>>> It felt nice to be stretched out like that, but with no access to brakes or 
>>> shifters from there I didn’t like to stay long. Unnerving.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Apr 21, 2024, at 4:54 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> This is going to be a fun thread. Please don't take a great volume of 
>>> advice as condescending; I think that this thread will elicit a very large 
>>> amount of love for road bikes as a distinct genus of bicycle.
>>>
>>> I think you very particularly will benefit a great deal from the right 
>>> road bike and that once you get things basically sorted you will find that 
>>> you enjoy it immensely for the kind of riding you describe. There is a 
>>> perfection of fit and feel and a real pleasure in riding a well set up 
>>> traditional road bike -- I don't mean racing bike -- that you don't find 
>>> with other combinations of frame, saddle, bar, and their relative 
>>> positions. Really, this sort of setup on the right sort of frame is 
>>> *more* comfortable, *more* natural, *more* pleasant for energetic 
>>> riding than other setups; at least, I've always found it so, and there's a 
>>> reason why the traditional road bike was developed so quickly after the 
>>> chain-driven safety was invented and why it has remained largely the same 
>>> for going on for 150 years.
>>>
>>> Note: I don't say that *everyone* who rides energetically should have a 
>>> road bike, but everyone who does so and can try ought at least to give one 
>>> a try. Again, there is an efficiency and comfort -- really, a "fit" like 
>>> that of a custom suit or perfect tool -- offered by an intelligently spec'd 
>>> and set up road bike that, you don't -- or at least, 

[RBW] Re: TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Ted Durant]

On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 6:00:27 PM UTC-5 four...@gmail.com wrote:

I'd be curious if you came off butyl or latex tubes prior? guess I'm just 
not that convinced the TPUs are worth the extra price over latex (at least 
the price of the RH versions)..


Great question, and one I'd intended to answer in my review, but then 
forgot. I've ridden all my RH 32mm tires with Schwalbe SV16 tubes (and 
occasionally another 28-32mm tube that's been pressed into emergency 
service). I have not used latex tubes in quite a while. I used them on my 
Riv Road with some skinny tires and had two pinch flats on one group ride. 
Haven't used them since. Soon I will try TPU on my Breadwinner, which is 
650x48B. They'll also go on my Heron (after it's back from the spa) and my 
Riv Road, both of which also ride on Stampede Pass tires. 

The big advantage of TPU over latex, in theory, is the air retention. I'll 
know how that's going in a couple of days.

IMO, the question is whether TPUs are worth the substantial price premium 
over butyl. I've just "invested" a pretty big chunk of money into TPU tubes 
for 4 bikes.  In terms of ride quality, my first impression is quite 
positive. TBD on the durability and flat-resistance.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[Ted Durant]

> On Apr 21, 2024, at 7:59 PM, RichS  wrote:
> 
> Leah, one more thought building on the Sam, Homer, Ram, etc. suggestions. The 
> periwinkle color samples Will showed in the Friday Riv newsletter strikes me 
> as a color that is right in your wheelhouse. I know one of the country bikes 
> is not at the top of your wanted list, but I believe you could build a 
> reasonably light (23-24lbs.?), zippy periwinkle Sam rolling on RH or 
> Continental 5000 32mm tires and you'd be at the front!
> 

FWIW, I am very happy with my 2 Sams as all-rounder road and trail bikes. I 
have them set up, position-wise, very much like my “road” bikes and with Noodle 
bars. I wouldn’t hesitate to take them on a group ride, though I probably 
wouldn’t try to hang with the 25mph club.  

One thing to be aware of as you compare options is that Grant likes shallow 
seat tube angles these days. That makes it a little trickier to compare the 
handlebar reach with other bikes. (Don’t get me started on the bike companies 
that are now publishing “effective seat tube angle”.) I decided to set up my 
Sams with a bit less reach than my other bikes, so the back of the handlebars 
is just beyond my fingertips, rather than an inch or two. I don’t think you 
need to go all the way down to 32mm tires to make it zippy. I have 48’s on mine 
and that might be overkill, but I bet 38’s would be super fast and agile. 
(Decreasing tire size reduces both pneumatic and geometric trail and it reduces 
rotational inertia, all of which makes a bike feel “zippier”.)

I saw the Periwinkle sample and am stupidly tempted to get a third Sam.

But I also understand the curiosity about a true road bike. My Heron and Riv 
Road and Waterford ST-22 have around 33,000 kms on them since 2017.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA

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