Re: [RE-wrenches] Optics

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

So here is the scoop, I got it that outback is moving to Dallas and will
still be a premium product, and yes the optics shut down had something to
do with the sale. Everyone hold on as they say they have new products at
SPI this fall. Keep your fingers crossed and let's all wait patiently.
Fun times

On Sun, May 19, 2024, 10:53 AM Lou Russo via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I started poking through EnerSys's (The most recent owner of Outback) SEC
> filings in hopes to find who the new buyer is. I found nothing related to
> the sale but found this in their most recent quarterly report :
>
> On November 8, 2023, the Company's Board of Directors approved a plan to
> stop production and operations of residential renewable energy products,
> which include our OutBack and Mojave brands. Management determined that
> residential renewable energy products no longer fit with the company’s core
> strategy and resources will be better allocated toward commercial energy
> solutions for enterprise customers. The Company currently estimates that
> the total charges for these actions will amount to $23.5 million relating
> primarily to $22.6 million in non-cash charges primarily including
> inventory and an indefinite-lived intangible asset write-offs and $0.9
> million in cash charges including employee severance and retention
> payments. The plan is expected to be completed in fiscal 2024. During the
> nine months of fiscal 2024, the Company recorded non-cash charges totaling
> $6.6 million primarily related to indefinite-lived intangible asset
> write-off and cash charges of $0.4 million related to severance costs. The
> Company also recorded a non-cash write off relating to inventories of $16.1
> million, which was reported in cost of goods sold.
>
> To say I am curious about what is going on is an understatement.
>
> Aloha,
>
> Lou Russo
> Owner
> l...@spreesolarsystems.com
> 808 345 6762
> Spree Solar Systems LLC
> CT-34322
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, May 19, 2024 at 2:21 AM Jay via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> I agree with you William
>>
>> While there could be all sorts of valid reasons for the downtime.
>>
>> What’s not acceptable is the lack of communication and notification that
>> it was going to happen or had happened.
>>
>> If they do have new owners they are not starting well.
>>
>> Jay
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 18, 2024, at 9:42 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Friends:
>>
>>
>>
>> I am sure you are all acutely aware, but this is not a trivial matter.
>> We depend on Optics for alerts and trouble shooting.  We rely on Optics for
>> the history it records to analyze trends and evaluate production and
>> consumption. I doubt the data lost will back-fill.  I sell Outback based in
>> great part on the Optics interface.  For this system to be down for days at
>> a time is not a good sign at all.
>>
>>
>>
>> I will be lighting up the phone lines on Monday to find out what happened
>> and to emphasize this cannot become a pattern.
>>
>>
>>
>> William
>>
>>
>>
>> Miller Solar
>>
>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>>
>> 805-438-5600
>>
>> www.millersolar.com
>>
>> CA Lic. 773985
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
>> Behalf Of *Lou Russo via RE-wrenches
>> *Sent:* Saturday, May 18, 2024 11:50 AM
>> *To:* RE-wrenches
>> *Cc:* Lou Russo
>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Optics
>>
>>
>>
>> All my sites are currently down.
>>
>>
>>
>> Not related but I tried to call tech support yesterday during business
>> hours and got message saying thank you for calling Outback Sales leave a
>> message.
>>
>>
>>
>> I do hope they are just in transition but I got a bad feeling about this.
>> I hope I am wrong.
>>
>>
>>
>> Has anyone heard for sure who bought them? I know they were bought from
>> talking to tech support but that is all I know and the Internet has 0 info
>> on a recent sale.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 18, 2024, 6:48 AM Dan Fink via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>> Mine all went down yesterday at noon MDT. I wonder if this has to do with
>> the sale of Outback?
>>
>>
>> Dan Fink
>>
>> Owner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLC
>>
>> IREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind Installation
>>
>> NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector
>>
>> NABCEP PV Associate
>>
>> d anbo...@gmail.com
>>
>> 970-672-4342
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 18, 2024 at 10:17 AM William Miller via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>> Friends:
>>
>>
>>
>> 100% of our Optics sites are down since 11 AM yesterday. Is it just us?
>>
>> William Miller
>> Miller Solar.com
>> 805-438-5600
>> www.millersolar.com
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>>

Re: [RE-wrenches] midnite new inverter

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches,
All in one boxes are easy to install and look all pretty and clean but is
it really a good idea to have the CC, Inverter, Ats, bms, breakers all in
one.   cabinet. In the past this has not been the best long term solution.
Seperate serviceable components are always better.
Fun times

On Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 5:48 AM Jay via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi scott
>
> Yes I think for new larger systems the AIO are the present/future
>
> Jay
>
> > On Apr 9, 2024, at 9:42 PM, scot.a...@solarcentex.com wrote:
> >
> > 
> > Wow, are we in the golden age of inverter/chargers? If it had 200-a.p
> pass thru it would be near perfect.
> >
> > Begs the question: are stand alone charge controllers becoming a
> historical artifact?
> >
> > Howard "Scot" Arey
> > Owner, Solar CenTex
> > 254-300-1228
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Good tech support

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Do you have the 42-48 or the newer 55-48, l have used both in off grid AC
Coupled systems with no issues, inverters freq shift and self power down. I
did eliminate the battery temp sensor and use a resistor in its place to
stabilize the charge rate.
Can you again call out the issue you are having with the inverters as this
might help answer or at least even resemble issue we might also be seeing.
Fun times

On Wed, Mar 27, 2024, 7:14 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Friends:
>
>
>
> Some of you may remember the problems I am having integrating a set of
> Fortress batteries with an off-grid Sunny Island/Sunny Boy ac-coupled
> system.  If not, here
> 
> is the case study.
>
>
>
> The problem has been in abeyance for the last few months because due to
> short days and cloudy weather.  There has not been enough sunshine to cause
> a recurrence.  Now that spring has sprung the problem is back.
>
>
>
> I did come up with a work-around:  I installed a contactor to disconnect
> the Sunny Boys whenever the SOC gets to 90%.  This works but it does waste
> some solar capability.
>
>
>
> I have been working with Fortress on the issue.  They have been in touch
> and have been very generous in offering support and spending time trying to
> find a solution.  Most important they have admitted the problem exists.
>
>
>
> To me this is very refreshing.  This makes me want to use more Fortress
> products and sing their praises.  I think my fellow wrenches would want to
> know about this great support when contemplating which battery products to
> use, which is the reason for this post.
>
>
>
> Below is an excerpt from an email received today from Fortress.
>
>
>
> Hi William,
>
>
>
> Apologies for the lapse in communication on this subject, we are still
> actively working on this case to provide you with a solution.
>
>
>
> We have confirmed here in our Lab that the older firmware does not resolve
> the issue as you have stated and the engineering and product teams are in
> discussions to provide a solution to this battery/inverter compatibility
> issue. We will provide updates on a solution as we receive them. I
> unfortunately do not have a timeline to provide, but we will have one soon.
>
>
>
> Thank you for your patience.
>
>
>
> Warm regards,
>
> Galen Gennaria
>
>
>
> I will update the case study when new developments occur.
>
>
>
> William
>
>
>
> Miller Solar
>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>
> 805-438-5600
>
> www.millersolar.com
>
> CA Lic. 773985
>
>
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15K AC Output

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches, Jason
I have always either with outback and with solark have always connected
each unit with a distribution panel with breakers regardless of what's in
the inverter package. This same goes for the gen set connections with
proper breakers so not to have to over size the wires.
I have connected to either the gen set input or the grid input both will
work and both can be used to charge the batteries.
Question l do alot of gen set integration and breakers on the genset may
not reflect its actual design output and l have seen multiple times
overloading the genset due to the incorrect math. Use a power factor of .8
of the gen set rating then 75% of that is safe continues operating load.
Now some may argue with this but when l take a 150 kW  genny for a 4 hr
load bank test that's the math that's used.

Your batteries should also be independently fuse or breaker protected
outside of the battery such as a midnite battery combiner breaker cabinet,
required for any more than two banks. I do this with FLA's blue planet and
fortress regardless of the internal breaker supplied.
Fun times

On Tue, Mar 26, 2024, 2:27 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I am going to have a quad-stack of Sol-Ark 15K for an off-grid 120/240V
> system with a 150A generator. I know the max real power is 62.5A each
> inverter including battery and PV. That would be 62.5A x 4 = 250A total. I
> intend to connect the output of the 4 inverters together with a 5-port
> Polaris tap, with the output of the Polaris Tap going to a 400A main lug
> only panelboard.
>
> My question revolves around the 200A passthrough capability for the
> generator, which is 150A max output and would be connected to the Grid
> input on each inverter. Since each inverter would need to handle the full
> pass-through current, that would require minimum 150A conductors on the
> input side of each inverter. I am under the impression that the inverters
> can supplement the "grid" or generator in this case if the current exceeds
> the available input. That means the inverter would have 150A of input plus
> 62.5A  of inverter power for a total of 212.5A. But there is a 200A load
> OCPD, so I could size the load conductors from each inverter for 200A.
>
> Obviously the 4 inverters can only pass through 150A from the generator in
> total, which would probably be split among them, but could go through a
> single unit if the rest fail.
>
> Now, is it possible for each inverter to output 62.5A each PLUS 150A of
> generator power spread across them for a total of 400A? That is important
> because I would need to size the combined output conductors for 400A if
> that is the case.
>
> I guess I'm not clear on how Sol-Ark 15K handles grid/generator
> assist/supplement. It does not seem to be documented clearly.
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Florida Solar Design Group
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Clamping CTs Around Live Conductors - White Paper References and/or Anecdotal Information Requested

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches
Per manufacturer recommended installation procedures you must have the CT
terminated befor the load connection can made and yes this can damage the
CT. Depending on what you are connecting to there may also be a "short pin"
to prevent component damage so keep that in mind when commissioning a
logger.
Regarding your question about hand heldsi have seen failures of cheaper
units, l have Flukes and never had an issue with them
Fun times

On Fri, Mar 8, 2024, 8:30 AM Sam Haraldson via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Dear Wrenches,
>
> I'm trying to determine whether or not it is acceptable to clamp
> monitoring CTs around hot conductors.  For this question please assume the
> CT wires are landed in their proper terminals and that proper PPE/safety
> protocol is employed.  The monitored currents in question are residential
> services of 600A or less. Is there harm to the CT by clamping them around a
> hot conductor?
>
> The physics of a CT from my brief research states that,* "...the
> secondary of a current transformer should not be disconnected from its
> burden while current is in the primary, as the secondary will attempt to
> continue driving current into an effective infinite impedance potentially
> generating high voltages and thus compromising operator safety."  *This begs
> the question how I can use my DMM clamp meter w/o causing damage or is the
> italicized text related to very high current applications from the world of
> medium and high voltage equipment and not as pertinent to the residential
> and light commercial world I work in?
>
> I suspect this is a no-brainer answer for the seasoned professionals on
> the list and I'll be most appreciative for any proof (no matter how brief)
> you wish to share.  Ultimately we wish to minimize the need to perform
> power shut downs and interrupt client service when installing load
> monitoring CTs to a home but only wish to do so if it is part of a safe and
> non equipment-harming process.
>
> Sincerely,
> Sam Haraldson
>
> [image: OnSite Energy]
> 
>
> SAM HARALDSON
> Field Operations Director
> (406) 551-6135
> 1515 N. Rouse Ave Bozeman, MT 59715
> Locally owned and operated since 2012
> [image: B Corporation]
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] DC fountain pumps

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

March makes a good mag drive 12 vdc pump
Fun times

On Mon, Mar 4, 2024, 2:35 PM jay via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> HI All
>
> Any recommendations for quality DC fountain pumps?
>
> Brands, suppliers etc
>
> thanks
>
> jay
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Older Sunny Islands charging newer Lithium's

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

SMA and Li Tech
I have replaced quite a few batteries with LIPh and the only thing on the
4048's is setting a temp sensor at default 77 Degrees and on the 5048"s as
i recall can be closed loop with fortress and Blue Planet.
Fun Times

On Fri, Mar 1, 2024 at 12:52 PM Peter Giroux via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> My fellow wrenchers. Have sought help from SMA but they just defer to
> owner’s manuals and the older batteries listed.. I have a customer with two
> SMA 5048’s, roughly 11 years old and appear to be working fine. Customer
> wants to move to LIPO batteries and keep his SMA’s. Has anybody made these
> transitions and how did you do it, not sure the SMA programing for LIPO’s
> works the way Lithium’s need. Any and all help and ideas appreciated.
>
>
>
> Thx
>
> Peter Giroux
>
> American Solar & Alternative Energy Solutions inc
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Non-battery string inverter options?

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

The new SMA is a great option multi string, name brand, will be available
soon (april) and they are taking orders now. Forward compliant.
Jerry

On Thu, Feb 22, 2024, 3:56 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Friends:
>
>
>
> Now that RSS is required on almost every installation, I am having trouble
> finding a plain old, non-battery, non-MLPE string inverter.  This is for a
> ground mount with the inverter mounted to the rack-- the only scenario I
> can imagine that does not require RSS.  I don’t need or want battery
> capability, now or in the future.  The project does not have shading issues
> and the inverter will be mounted on the array, so no version of MLPE is
> needed.
>
>
>
> My usual go-to would be the legacy SMA Sunny Boy series.  I can’t dine one
> for sale and I am getting the impression these are no longer available.
>
>
>
> What might you recommend for this new installation?
>
>
>
> This brings up the question:  Of all the Sunny Boy installations I  have
> out there, the next time one fails, what am I going to replace it with?
>
>
>
> The new Sunny Boy Smarty-Pants series is not yet shipping, it is very
> expensive and to replace a grid-connected inverter I don’t need battery
> capabilities.
>
>
>
> I can’t use Solar Edge because I won’t want to unwire a complete array and
> add optimizers.
>
>
>
> I am not that taken with Sol-Ark, not only because it includes the word
> Arc in its name.  I don’t need the battery capabilities, AC load center or
> any of the other complexities.
>
>
>
> Any advice is appreciated.
>
>
>
> William
>
>
>
> Miller Solar
>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>
> 805-438-5600
>
> www.millersolar.com
>
> CA Lic. 773985
>
>
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Recommendation on DC Breaker

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches, Jason
Midnight pv2 by panel, holds two breakers or as l recall fuse holders rated
for 600 vdc
Jerry

On Thu, Jan 18, 2024, 7:43 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I am installing an EG4 off-grid 3k inverter for the first time, and the
> manual requires a DC circuit breaker on the PV input. It will be a small PV
> array with adjusted max Voc around 280V @ Isc 10.6A.
>
> I'm looking for a cost-effective DC breaker and enclosure for this purpose.
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
> Florida Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Grid Tied Inverter back feed to Generator

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches
Without batteries uou do not want to do this, l have tested small
generators to excite larger solar inverters to run constant loads but if
the inverters out power the loads then the smoke comes out so not advisable
But hey thats just a guy that has been in the business for many years.
Fun times.

On Thu, Nov 30, 2023, 5:20 PM Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Has anyone experienced a grid tie inverter back feed a whole house backup
> generator after a utility outage?
> What can happen ?
>
>
> Jeremy Rodriguez
> Solar Installation / Design
> All Solar, Inc.
> 1453 M St.
> Penrose Colorado 81240
>
> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Racking identification help

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Unistrut and iron ridge paired up from the one pic l saw

On Fri, Nov 17, 2023, 10:02 AM Dan Fink via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Wrenches; A colleague found this on an older system and is looking for
> parts. Kind of like strut crossed with racking, I was unable to identify
> either. Anyone know what this is?
> Thanks!
>
> Dan Fink
> Owner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLC
> IREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind Installation
> NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector
> NABCEP PV Associate
> d anbo...@gmail.com
> 970-672-4342
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Integrating Fortress E-vault maxes into an SI AC-coupled system

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Regarding the SI Inverters,for me it works best to eliminate the bat temp
sensor and put in a resister set to be 75 degrees, this will prevent the
charger over under charge issue.
Fun times

On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 12:36 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Friends:
>
>
>
> I am still working on getting the E-vaults to play nice with the Sunny
> Islands and Sunny Boys.
>
>
>
> With Open loop I was getting significant discrepancies in the reporting of
> SOC in the e-vaults versus that reported by the SI inverters.  This
> discrepancy did not diminish over time.  The discrepancy caused
> unacceptable charging and generator operations.
>
>
>
> I got Closed loop hooked up, but I found that every few days the SI
> inverters would shut down due to a battery over-voltage condition.  I
> believe that when the e-vaults are near 100% SOC the BMS units increase the
> battery impedance which means any charging current applied will cause the
> voltage spike I have been seeing.   I was able to measure these conditions
> myself on site, although they were very fleeting and required recording
> with the Fluke87 Min-Max function (love this meter!).
>
>
>
> I was able to extract log files from the Sunny Island primary inverter and
> perform some analysis.  It appears when I turned on remote BMS on the SI
> (as part of the Closed loop protocol) it disabled the Frequency-Shift Power
> Control.  This means the SI inverters have gone from having poor control
> over battery charging to having no control over battery charging.
>
>
>
> I have documented my research here
> .
> There is a table of contents to take you to the latest information.  I
> appreciate pertinent comments any of you might have.
>
>
>
> By the way, if anyone has called SMA tech support for help on a Sunny
> Island system, you have likely been asked to extract log files, zip them up
> and send them off for review (and waited a long time for a reply).  I am
> the kind of guy who does not like to wait for solutions and who likes to
> figure out things for himself.  I have taught myself how to evaluate those
> log files. I will be posting a web page on the subject.  In the meantime,
> if you are interested, two of my analysis Excel sheets are linked in the
> case study.  I will be expanding on this and providing resources to any
> integrator that wants that knowledge.
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance for any insight.  I hope I am wrong about this and I am
> just missing something.  I also hope revealing my headaches will help
> someone someday…
>
>
>
> William
>
>
>
> Miller Solar
>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>
> 805-438-5600
>
> www.millersolar.com
>
> CA Lic. 773985
>
>
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC interpretation/guidance?

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches
For many years we used Sharp modules, yes they had issues but l dont recall
many if at all MC failurs but with SolarWorld a very high number of
failures. With some overseas manufacturers I have also seen this level of
failure so it does start to look like the sub that made the cables is the
issue. Now years ago some MC Knock offs hit the market, say10 to 15 years
ago. Issues like this may also be a factor.
Fun times

On Fri, Nov 10, 2023, 7:41 AM Jay via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I’ve wondered what other variables are at work given that mostly these
> connectors work as they should.
>
> I’d like to see them come with plugs covering the openings. This would
> keep dirt, salt air, moisture, etc  out until they are connected.
>
> As to if there were lots of failures with SW modules then I wonder if
> whoever built the whips had poor quality control. Might be they were not
> seated properly or dirty or the crimp they used wasn’t calibrated correctly
> or they were stored in a salt environment creating corrosion or something
> like that.
>
> I looked up the specs last night on the mc4 and it’s like 30+ amps
> depending on the wire, pretty impressive
>
> Jay
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 10, 2023, at 5:53 AM, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> 
> Mine was a roof mount. We had very few SolarWorld projects. In fact, this
> might be our only one.
>
> On Fri, Nov 10, 2023, 8:10 AM Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> I'd be curious to know of the connector failures y'all have experienced,
>> were the majority of these roof mounts?
>> Just wondering if with better air flow like that of a pole/ground mount,
>> if that helped to minimize connector failure.
>>
>> Christopher
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 1:21 AM Bill Battagin via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Ray,
>>>
>>> Exactly the same thing happened for me on a ground mount
>>> system, 3500 feet elevation the the Sierras so open cooler air, fully
>>> engaged MC4 factory connectors PV to PV connectors with SW285's, not
>>> passing current, melted.  No attempt to contact SW just made up new
>>> connectors.
>>>
>>> My calculation is with anything that is no doubt made up by
>>> the bazillion with a machine (connectors, light bulbs, pencils, chicken
>>> nuggets, etc) you're going to get some duds.  In 20+ years of installing
>>> PVs with factory made-up connectors, I've only seen this happen 2-3 times.
>>> Installing in the mountains we no doubt use ground mount much more often
>>> than most installs in urban areas which would make a hot, melted connector
>>> possibly more of an issue a couple inches above a comp or wood roof.  We've
>>> never seen any connectors fail beyond the melted/deformed but still
>>> "contained" stage .
>>>
>>> Back when SW was first transitioning from one connector to
>>> another, I remember them saying they (I think it was UTX and MC or was it
>>> UTX and Amphenol?) were compatible.  We NEVER mixed connectors despite
>>> their claim.
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>> Feather River Solar Electric
>>> 4291 Nelson St. (Shipping)
>>> 5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
>>> Taylorsville, CA  95983
>>> 530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell)
>>> CA. C10 Lic # 874049
>>> Solar Powered since 1982
>>> Home of the Sunny Side Up
>>>
>>> On 11/9/2023 4:31 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm trying to find a pic to post, but they were MC4 connectors, not the
>>> UTX.
>>>
>>> Ray
>>> On 11/9/2023 4:57 PM, Brian Mehalic wrote:
>>>
>>> Are they the Amohenol UTX connectors? SW had a recall on them, sounds
>>> like about the right timeframe.
>>>
>>> BREAKING: SolarWorld recalls PV modules with Amphenol connectors
>>> 
>>> pv-magazine-usa.com
>>> 
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> Brian
>>>
>>> On Nov 9, 2023, at 4:47 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches
>>>  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> 12 Ga wire is not going to catch on fire, but the MC connectors might.
>>> I just went back on a 7 yr old Solarworld install, and had a bad series MC
>>> connector (module to module).  It got quite crispy, deforming and bubbling
>>> the plastic on both sides of the connection.  It was still passing current;
>>> I didn't get a chance to measure the volt drop.  It was completely plugged
>>> in, so not an installation issue.
>>>
>>> This was not one of our connectors made up in the field, these were
>>> Solarworld factory connectors on both sides, same model modules.  That also
>>> means no mismatch of "MC4" connector type.
>>>
>>> 10+ amps continuous, moist environment, 30F+  hotter than ambient temp,
>>> all are tough on 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Home grid stacked battery heating

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches
I have also used the turtle heater and it's just enough to keep everything
up and operating. Insulation and a warm thermal mass makes it all hold
together
Funtimes
Jerry

On Sun, Nov 5, 2023, 2:03 PM Allan Sindelar via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I did this modification to a 16kW Blue Ion LiFP bank during installation,
> following this guide, Darryl. Blue Planet had sent me this. Shortly after
> initial installation a plumber had installed an electric space heater in an
> unheated space with water pipes, which of course soon drained the batteries
> to LVD, so the BMS had shut them down. The BMS won’t accept a charge until
> the batteries were about 1 1/2 degrees F above freezing. I did a winter
> service call and worked with BP tech support. I plugged the same space
> heater into a portable gennie and pointed it to the batteries, and as soon
> as the BMS registered above freezing it allowed recharge from the array.
> As I recall, besides the bubble/Mylar insulation (which was surprisingly
> easy to install) the system used an 18w terrarium heating pad in the bottom
> shelf under the batteries and a 9w pad on the upper shelf, controlled by an
> external freeze-prevention thermostat. With a sufficient whole-house array
> it’s proven to be a negligible load.
> It’s a standalone system. I don’t recall the low-temperature discharge
> limit; it’s quite a bit lower than the minimum charge temperature. And
> summer heating is irrelevant with the thermostat. The rest you can get from
> Blue Planet.
> Allan
>
> On Nov 5, 2023, at 2:03 PM, Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> 
> Great site, Allan, but many facts still need to be included.  Was there a
> discharge or charge going on? How much power was being drawn by the
> heaters?  If this is for a standalone system, energy consumption is very
> important. What is the lower temperature cell discharge limit of Blue
> Planet?   What concern was taken for the summer and overheating?   What are
> the blue planet-specific heat and weight of the batteries?  More questions,
> but I doubt if anyone else is interested. Thank you.
>
> On Thu, Oct 26, 2023 at 11:49 AM Sindelar Solar via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> You might be able to get some ideas from this. It's worked well for me on
>> one job.
>> Allan
>>
>> On 10/25/2023 2:24 PM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>
>> I know we have had this run thru before & wanted to see if any new
>> options for heating LI batteries.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have an 8 pack of Homegrid LI batteries that is off grid with Radian
>> 8048a. Originally, they were not going to be there for the winter, now it
>> is a possibility they may visit. Plenty of solar 6KW+, hopefully generator
>> back up waiting on delivery currently.
>>
>> Currently located in main room high ceilings/log cabin.
>>
>> Looking at creating an insulated closet & using terrarium heaters
>> controlled if over 51volt heater on AC from inverter. Or just boxing in
>> with 3-4” of blue board Styrofoam….
>>
>>
>>
>> Has anyone else done something similar?
>>
>> Has anyone done this & it did not work?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thought & suggestions…..
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _
>>
>> Dana OrzelGREAT SOLAR WORKS!
>>
>> C – 208.721.7003  E – d...@solarwork.com
>>
>> W - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com
>>
>> *“Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!”*
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>> --
>>
>> *Allan Sindelar*
>> al...@sindelarsolar.com
>> RETIRED
>>
>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Small Diesel generator recommendation off-grid

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

First is it a prime mover or stand by? New or used?
 You know that's really to small for a diesel and after you take the duty
cycle in to it you are 6 to 14 kw here are some options in a 25 k version.
KOHLER makes a nice unit
DOOSAN makes a good unit
TAYLOR does also.
All of theses can be made 3 or single phase and yes most of my units in the
field are 3 phase for water pumping.
Anyway China also has some on the market but buyer beware can't get parts
for some of them.

On Sat, Nov 4, 2023, 6:45 AM Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hello Wrenches,
>
> Can anyone recommend a reliable diesel generator that starts well in the
> 10-20kW range?
>
> Thanks!
> --
>
>
>
> Mac Lewis
>
> *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum problem

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches Ron
First l would think tech support already asked you this but.
I have seen this with outback,
What is the incoming voltage and freq, the Honda should be fine but the
other hard to say.  Frequency is very important to be right otherwise the
inverter will sit and wait, voltage not as much. Your inverter is a 240 vac
right, are the gennys also?
You might want to make sure its in Gen input not grid input, gen is wider.
With your little gennys it might latch up and disconnect quickly due to
either going out of range.
With gennys always use a pf of .8 and go down from there so a 3 k genny
charging should be around 1200 watts.
Funtimes

On Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 9:38 AM Ron Young via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hello Wrenches,
>
> I am completely stumped. I built a Magnum 4448 panel for a client and it
> was installed by an electrician. It was thoroughly tested before going out
> the door on all functions and pre-programmed for the off-grid site.
> Electrician just had to hang it on the wall and make 4 connections, AC IN,
> AC OUT, BATTERY, PV. Somehow the system wouldn’t go into charge mode. The
> site is a 3 hour trip each way. The electrician was baffled, he had
> experience installing solar but very limited so I went to the site to see
> what the problem was. After spending a day checking out the inverter with
> two different generators, checking all the connections, AC at the inputs at
> the inverter and at the outputs on the breakers, and even removed the cover
> from the inverter to make sure some connections had not shaken loose inside
> the box on the long bumpy road into the property. Everything checked out.
> So assuming the AC board in the inverter was faulty I ordered a new unit to
> replace and that has now been done. SAME PROBLEM! I’m wondering now if it’s
> possible that the Magnum remote monitor could be the problem. It functions
> properly on every setting but is it possible there is an internal fault?
> Could it prevent the automatic charge cycle from initiating? Seems unlikely
> to me because the inverter can go into charge mode even without the
> monitor. I also tried replacing the connection cable between the monitor
> and inverter but no luck.
>
> The generators are both small, one a Honda 2kW and the other a Champion
> 3.8kW. Neither is ideal but I have had no issues with these types of
> generators in the past and the client has ordered a larger 10kW unit but we
> don’t have it yet to test. Generators have been run with Eco Mode off.
> Output to the house on bypass is consistent and without problem.
>
> Any suggestions - this is just confounding.
>
> Ron
>
>
> earthRight Products - Solareagle.com
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] AC Coupling

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

AC coupled systems used to work like this but with solark and sort of with
outback they use the gen set input to the inverter, do the freq shift and
charge via a preset voltage. This seams to work well but if you connect a
genny it must be on the grid input via an ATS, alot more complicated the
any DC side connection.
Funtimes

On Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 8:51 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Jay:
>
>
>
> I am not sure how it would be possible for a grid-tied inverter to operate
> with any battery inverter if it was not connected to the battery inverter
> AC output.  The grid-tied inverter needs to see correct voltage and
> frequency before it can start up.  How else could this work?
>
>
>
> I looked up all of the inverters you cited.  In each case it may look to
> you like you are connecting to an input, it is really just reprogramming
> the inverter to turn the generator input into an extra output.  All of the
> manufacturers provide warnings about doing this.  Here is more information
> from each of the manufacturers:
>
>
>
> Sol-arc:  From the manual for the Sol-arc 15K-2P-N: You convert the Gen
> input to an output and make that your connection point.  “*A full AC
> coupled solar system is not recommended as power control and monitoring is
> limited.”*
>
>
>
> EG4:  I could not find an “ev4” inverter anywhere online.  There is an EG4
> inverter.  I read the manual and it looks like the EG4 works just like the
> Sol-arc:  You program the generator input to actually be an output.  The
> EG4 abruptly disconnects that output when battery SOC reaches a programmed
> level-- There is apparently no frequency shift function.  The manual is
> pretty inadequate on this point but they do provide a video
> .
>
>
>
> Fortress:  The same as above is true about using the generator input for
> AC-coupling on the Fortress FP-Envy-12k.  From that manual*:  It is
> forbidden to connect the Generator in Gen Port when AC Coupled.  *That is
> because when AC-coupling, the generator input is no longer an input.
>
>
>
> So while it appears one connects an AC-Coupled inverter to battery
> inverter inputs, it is just a reprogramming of the generator input to be an
> output.  In all cases that I can see there is still no voltage control of
> AC-coupled battery charging.
>
>
>
> I am aware that to try and provide some modicum of control over the
> battery charging from AC-coupled sources, a scheme was invented to shift
> the output frequency and taper or shut down AC-coupled power.  This is a
> work-around, not a design.  In each and every one of these systems it is
> pretty clear there is little control over battery charging voltage.  These
> systems do not support three stage battery charging like a DC charge
> controller can.
>
>
>
> When AC-coupled charging is connected to batteries with BMS in certain
> conditions battery voltage spikes can occur.  See section 2.2 of this
> article. 
>
>
>
> There are limited advantages to AC coupling:
>
>
>
> ·AC coupling allows reduced wire gauge for long-haul feeders.
> This is no longer as necessary with new 600 volt input charge controllers.
>
>
>
> ·AC Coupling allows an easier upgrade path for a customer that
> has grid-tied inverters and wants to add batteries.  I am not sure most
> batteries can survive for long with the crude charging algorithm provided,
> so I would hesitate to recommend this.
>
>
>
> In my opinion AC-coupled battery charging with even the newest inverters
> is a crude affair.  I am not a fan.
>
>
>
> William
>
>
>
> Miller Solar
>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>
> 805-438-5600
>
> www.millersolar.com
>
> CA Lic. 773985
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Jay [mailto:jay.pe...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 28, 2023 1:58 PM
> *To:* will...@millersolar.com; RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] AC Coupling
>
>
>
> I’m going to both agree and disagree
>
>
>
> Agree The older inverters ( Schneider, Outback, etc) your drawing is
> correct.
>
>
>
> Disagree For many new inverters ( sol ark, ev4, fortress) they bring ac
> coupling into the inverter directly.
>
> Usually on the generator input and not in the backup loads panel.
>
>
>
> And I will also disagree about the statement that these inverters are not
> designed for ac coupling.
>
> Agreed that the earlier non rule 21 compliant versions didn’t have any
> internal control and required external relay control to prevent overcharge.
>
>
>
> Newer versions of Schneider, OB, have  frequently shift which works with
> newer gt inverters to address the ac coupling overcharge concerns. While
> creating potential new issues for loads with up to 64 hz.
>
>
>
>
>
> Jay
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 28, 2023, at 2:15 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Friends:
>
>
>
> I am starting to get 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Aging Batteries

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches, Will
This is a hack trick but it can work as long as you don't have failed
cells, bring the static voltage up to 26 by adding just one battery, this
might be easier on the logistics issue. By doing this you will in the end
sacrifice the additional Battery but increasing the static voltage will
also increase it under load and reduce the run time of the genny, you will
also want to increase the charge voltage settings to accommodate the higher
voltage. Yes it's a hack but can help get you through the winter.
Fun times

On Fri, Oct 27, 2023, 8:03 AM White, Will via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hello Wrenches,
>
>
>
> I installed my off-grid system in 2008. It’s 24 V using 2 V industrial FLA
> batteries. As you can imagine after 15 years the capacity of my battery
> bank is significantly less than it used to be.
>
>
>
> For logistic reasons, I won’t be able to replace them till around June of
> next year, but it’s not even into winter yet and my generator is already
> running every day.
>
>
>
> Does anyone have any tips on how to get through the winter on these
> batteries while minimizing generator run time? I’ve got two FM80’s with 3.8
> kW of PV, two VFX3524 inverters, and a Kohler RES12 generator. I haven’t
> changed any settings since I installed the system.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Will
> --
>
> Please be advised that this email may contain confidential information. If
> you are not the intended recipient, please notify us by email by replying
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Re: [RE-wrenches] On Gens : 2007 Kohler: Wrenches, can you help with parts or smarts?

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches
I have always used 50 miles per hr as this works well, sure the 3600 rpm
unit runs faster but 2000 hrs is 10 miles and unless you have a prime
mover that's about right. I see many with well over 10,000 hrs. Had one
last week do 1000 hrs in a month.

On Tue, Oct 24, 2023, 4:50 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> REF Hours on Generators:
>
>
>
> Air cooled 3,600 RPM = 80 Mph
>
> 5000 hours x 80mph = 400,000 miles
>
>
>
> Water cooled at 1,800RPM = 40 MPH
>
> 5000 hours x 40mph = 200,000 miles
>
>
>
> Both are a lot of hours but 400K is till a whole lot of wear & tear.
>
>
>
> I got to thinking about all the other impacts & considerations:
>
>
>
>- Low elevation VS high elevation
>- Light loading vs heavy prolonged loading
>- Air flow & operating temps?
>- Warm up & Cool down cycle VS on & off.
>- Synthetic oil VS dinosaur oil? Synthetic = 4x the life & still
>better than dino oil when it was new…
>- Are they exceeding the oil intervals because they are always adding
>& adding oil due to consumption?
>- Rodent impact on wiring
>
>
>
> Generators do not have tires but still carry the same maintenance
> responsibilities as a vehicle, & typically do not get cared for like a
> vehicle that you climb into & trust your life with. My 0.02 experience is
> that as long as they are operating all is good & get cared for mostly when
> a crisis occurs. What I like to call “recycled ignorance.”
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Dana Orzel  c- 2087217003   e – d...@solarwork.com
>
>
>
>
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches 
> To: RE-wrenches 
> Cc: Mac Lewis 
> Bcc:
> Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2023 05:04:36 -0600
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 2007 Kohler: Wrenches, can you help with parts
> or smarts?
> Hello Mick,
>
> Here is what I'd do:
>
> Check compression on each cylinder, look for psi of about 90(ish).  Also
> verify they are about the same (within a couple of percent).  If its way
> out of this range, stop here.
>
> If they think they've gotten at least 5000 run hours, I'd stop here.
> These air cooled machines can last longer if well taken care of, but that
> is the design life.  I have a few Kohler air-cooled with >5000 run hours so
> it can happen.
>
> I'm a fan of checking the integrity of the alternator/rotor with an
> excitation test but you may be limited in what is possible with a cooked
> controller.  You can ask me direct for more details on this.  Probably the
> controller is cooked and that's it, but I have had lightning to more things
> to generators.
>
> I would try the parts for techs but here in Colorado you can also call
> Power systems West in Aurora.  They will need make, model, serial number
> and they can price out the part for you.  This will at least get you a best
> case price for replacing the controller.  You can't rely on
> interchangeability of these controllers.  There are often changes that need
> harness modifications.
>
> Good luck
>
> On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 4:48 PM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> https://www.partsfortechs.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> These guys sold me an automatic volt regulator for my 20KW Onan for ¼ of
>> the price that Onan wanted SUPER helpful, not sure if they can help you but
>> reasonable, knowledgeable, & friendly, & They saved my bucket.
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Dana Orzel  c- 2087217003   e – d...@solarwork.com
>>
>>
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>
> --
>
>
>
> Mac Lewis
>
> *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Well pump with Sol-Ark

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Chris, wrenches
I have a few off grid or very close to off grid, I run well pumps, booster
pumps, septic system pumps, no issues
Fun times

On Wed, Oct 11, 2023, 7:12 AM frenergy via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

>
> I'm looking for opinions and/or real world experience on recommendation
> for the largest 240V submersible well pump the Sol-Ark 12KW inverter can
> start/run.  Assume 500 watt load prior to starting the pump, static
> level of water in well is 75 feet, system psi when it starts is 40.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
>
> Feather River Solar Electric
> Bill Battagin, Owner
> 4291 Nelson St.(shipping)
> 5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
> Taylorsville, CA 95983
> 530.284.1925 Office/ 530.258.1641 Cell
> CA Lic 874049
> Solar powered since 1982
>
>
> --
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Nuance ground racking

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

We had wind lift issues so that will effect your installation. I have used
the current Nuance product and prior to that the same manufacturer under a
different name. Its more than just driving the rods down we had to do a
pull out test. We used hydrolic drivers attacked to the rack due to the
necessary torq. We have also used ¹/²" rebar hammer drilled down with a
hook on the top so that was easy.
Fun times

On Mon, Oct 9, 2023, 7:33 AM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I am going to try out the Nuance OSPREY PowerRack as a ground mount option
> that does not require an excavator. I am wondering two things about it:
>
> 1. Does anyone have experience with this, and do you like it?
>
> 2. What drill do you use for the drive rod?
> It seems like the Milwaukee 2" SDS max drill is the standard -
> https://www.milwaukeetool.com/Products/5342-21
> I am wondering if it is possible to use a cordless drill though. DeWalt
> makes both a cordless and corded version that claim to have the same impact
> energy as each other, although both are less than the Milwaukee Drill.
> Milwaukee has 19.9 ft-lbs of energy and the DeWalt ones have 19.4 Joules,
> which is 14.3 ft-lbs of energy.
> Cordless Kit -
> https://www.dewalt.com/product/dch773y2/60v-max-2-brushless-cordless-sds-max-combination-rotary-hammer-kit
> Corded Kit -
> https://www.dewalt.com/product/d25773k/2-sds-max-rotary-hammer
>
> The cordless drill is tempting because I already have a bunch of DeWalt
> equipment, and it would be nice to avoid needing a generator or some very
> long extension cords.
>
> Thanks!
> -Dave
>
> --
> [image: Logo] 
> Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
> Owner | Sungineer Solar
> p: he | him | his
> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
> w: www.sungineersolar.com 
> c: (607) 270-0370
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sunny Island/Fortress E-vault

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

We may want to distinguish between 4248 and the 6048, the 4248 has no
capability to connect to fortress and a viable solution is to set the temp
sender to77 degrees to peak charge the fortress evault max.
Fun times

On Tue, Sep 19, 2023, 6:43 PM Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> In my comversations with SMA, they made it clear they do not support
> closed loop comms with anyone at this time.
> YMMV
>
> -Glenn
> Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.
>
> -- Original message--
> *From: *Kienan Maxfield via RE-wrenches
> *Date: *Tue, Sep 19, 2023 3:17 PM
> *To: *RE-wrenches;
> *Cc: *Kienan Maxfield;
> *Subject:*Re: [RE-wrenches] Sunny Island/Fortress E-vault
>
> That's actually incorrect, Fortress totally does support closed-loop with
> the SMA Sunny Island inverters. Here is their integration guide. This has
> all of the instructions and coms wiring, etc. -
> https://learn.fortresspower.com/external/manual/sma/article/introduction-useful-links?p=dc8b9a9c1b3f410556835193e66f2257c662403dfb3da4056e618e954e8381d2
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kienan Maxfield
> Technical sales, Technical Support
>
> *Green-Go Solar Distribution*
> *kienan@dist.solar * <https://kienan@dist.solar/>
> *(801) 631-5584 <(801)%20631-5584> (Cell)*
> *www.distribution.solar <https://www.distribution.solar/>*
>
>
>
> --
> *From:* RE-wrenches > on behalf of Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches
> <%3cre-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
> <%3cre-wrenc...@lists.re-wrenches.org>
> *Sent:* Saturday, September 16, 2023 8:33 AM
> *To:* RE-wrenches > <%3cre-wrenc...@lists.re-wrenches.org>
> *Cc:* Kirk Herander > <%3Ckirkh@vermont.solar>
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Sunny Island/Fortress E-vault
>
> Jerry,
>
> Who is the maker of the Blue Planet/Outback SOC box interface you mention?
>
> On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 9:30 AM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> Mac, wrenches
> SMA and fortress can only open loop and with a fixed temp sender its fine.
> Now on the blue planet and open loop with outback, you need a SOC box that
> they can make for you, it will interface with the blue planet and command
> the genny.
> Fun times
>
> On Sat, Sep 16, 2023, 6:04 AM Mac Lewis  wrote:
>
> Hi William,
>
> Are you doing open loop or closed loop communication?  I'm not sure if
> Fortress can do a closed loop with SMA or not.
>
> We struggled to get the open loop to work well with some Blue Ion
> batteries, not from a charging sense but from a sense of getting the auto
> gen start to trigger correctly.  Basically, the SOC algorithm was always
> way off.  For a while we were using an external voltage trigger and we
> could get the generator to start OK before BMS shutdown.  We have since
> added a Namaka box and are using the "Ext BMS" setting for battery type in
> the Sunny Island and it has been working very well.
>
> I think the difficulty arises because the Sunny Island is so
> State-of-Charge centric and you can't manipulate the SOC algorithm without
> that Ext-BMS setting (and solid communication).  One weakness of the
> ext BMS setting is that it won't fall back on Voltage settings if battery
> communication goes down, but this is a weakness throughout closed loop
> communication for many manufacturers.
>
> Let us know if there is a Fortress to SMA communication solution.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 11:11 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> William, Wrenches
> Yes I do and it does require some basic electronics to make it work
> correctly, you will need to remove the ttemp sender and make a
> resistor pack to simulate the 77 degree reading otherwise it will not
> charge properly, for the first one I used a breadboard to set the temp for
> what I wanted to see then build a more solid state shrink wrap resistor.
> Doing this will prevent undercharge by the SMA and your customer will be
> happy to see the full state of charge at the batteries.
> OldSchool fun times
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 2:12 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> Friends:
>
>
>
> I am commissioning an E-vault battery array to an existing SMA Sunny
> Island System.  Does anyone have any experience with this they could share?
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> William
>
>
>
> Miller Solar
>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>
> 805-438-5600
>
> www.millersolar.com
>
> CA Lic. 773985
>
>
>
&g

Re: [RE-wrenches] Sunny Island/Fortress E-vault

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Mac, wrenches
SMA and fortress can only open loop and with a fixed temp sender its fine.
Now on the blue planet and open loop with outback, you need a SOC box that
they can make for you, it will interface with the blue planet and command
the genny.
Fun times

On Sat, Sep 16, 2023, 6:04 AM Mac Lewis  wrote:

> Hi William,
>
> Are you doing open loop or closed loop communication?  I'm not sure if
> Fortress can do a closed loop with SMA or not.
>
> We struggled to get the open loop to work well with some Blue Ion
> batteries, not from a charging sense but from a sense of getting the auto
> gen start to trigger correctly.  Basically, the SOC algorithm was always
> way off.  For a while we were using an external voltage trigger and we
> could get the generator to start OK before BMS shutdown.  We have since
> added a Namaka box and are using the "Ext BMS" setting for battery type in
> the Sunny Island and it has been working very well.
>
> I think the difficulty arises because the Sunny Island is so
> State-of-Charge centric and you can't manipulate the SOC algorithm without
> that Ext-BMS setting (and solid communication).  One weakness of the
> ext BMS setting is that it won't fall back on Voltage settings if battery
> communication goes down, but this is a weakness throughout closed loop
> communication for many manufacturers.
>
> Let us know if there is a Fortress to SMA communication solution.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 11:11 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> William, Wrenches
>> Yes I do and it does require some basic electronics to make it work
>> correctly, you will need to remove the ttemp sender and make a
>> resistor pack to simulate the 77 degree reading otherwise it will not
>> charge properly, for the first one I used a breadboard to set the temp for
>> what I wanted to see then build a more solid state shrink wrap resistor.
>> Doing this will prevent undercharge by the SMA and your customer will be
>> happy to see the full state of charge at the batteries.
>> OldSchool fun times
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 2:12 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Friends:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am commissioning an E-vault battery array to an existing SMA Sunny
>>> Island System.  Does anyone have any experience with this they could share?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> William
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Miller Solar
>>>
>>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>>>
>>> 805-438-5600
>>>
>>> www.millersolar.com
>>>
>>> CA Lic. 773985
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
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>
> --
>
>
>
> Mac Lewis
>
> *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sunny Island/Fortress E-vault

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

William, Wrenches
Yes I do and it does require some basic electronics to make it work
correctly, you will need to remove the ttemp sender and make a
resistor pack to simulate the 77 degree reading otherwise it will not
charge properly, for the first one I used a breadboard to set the temp for
what I wanted to see then build a more solid state shrink wrap resistor.
Doing this will prevent undercharge by the SMA and your customer will be
happy to see the full state of charge at the batteries.
OldSchool fun times



On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 2:12 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Friends:
>
>
>
> I am commissioning an E-vault battery array to an existing SMA Sunny
> Island System.  Does anyone have any experience with this they could share?
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> William
>
>
>
> Miller Solar
>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>
> 805-438-5600
>
> www.millersolar.com
>
> CA Lic. 773985
>
>
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
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>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Franklin Home Power

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Jason, Wrenches
I am familiar with Franklin and when I asked them about the battery they
had all the answers but when I asked about the AC coupled inverter inside,
mainly who made it is it field serviceable I got deer in the headlights and
a few weeks later I asked them the same thing and again no answer. I would
go with something that has been around some. You talked about Solark, I
have had no issues with any of their inverters and my latest install was
today connected to a fortress. Of course time will tell on anything we use,
Maybe franklin has made it known what is inside but for me I will not use
my customers as unknowing guinea pigs, I test products myself and see what
survives.
Jerry

On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 1:35 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Does anyone know if Franklin supports their AC-coupled battery solution in
> a completely off-grid scenario (no grid present)?
>
> I need to install a demonstration system with ~40kWh capacity to run loads
> in an outdoor off-grid facility. It needs to be wall mounted, NEMA 3R, and
> have 10kW AC output rating minimum. Aesthetics are important.
>
> I'm contemplating installing an Enphase 5P battery system, but it's not
> officially supported, even though I believe I can trick the system enough
> to get it commissioned and running in off-grid mode. If Franklin supports
> this, that's a checkmark in their column of the comparison chart.
>
> I'm not opposed to a 48V DC battery system with a Sol-Ark 15k or something
> like that, but I think my options for wall-mount, outdoor, and beautiful
> are going to be limited.
>
> I don't need any generator integration.
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Florida Solar Design Group
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] sol ark AGS question

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Jay, wrenches
ASCO makes multiple ATS controls that can manage delays latching up and for
cool down. Most of the gensets have are  programmed cool down after relay
opens so its not an issue. Generally on start up the genny connects as soon
as it's voltage and freq are within range.
fun times



On Thu, Sep 14, 2023, 2:26 PM jay via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I have a client with a sol ark and it doesn’t have warm up or cool down,
> kind of amazing companies are going backwards in their tech.
>
>
> Has anyone come up with external fix for this?
>
> I am guessing the internal relay on the sol ark switches closed when it
> sees the correct volts/hz and opens the sol ark relay when it sends the off
> signal.
>
> If thats correct I  can pretty easily use a delay relay on the off cycle
> assuming the on signal has a time window to allow for this delay in sending
> power to the inverter.
>
>  The on delay I don’t see anyway unless I use a contactor with on delay
> relay.
>
> Maybe there is a off the shelf generator transfer switch that has this
> built in?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Jay
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Power conditioner for Trace inverter

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

I must agree with Ray, that inverter was never intended to run the slew of
electronics we have now. There are gadgets out on the market that may do
what you want but the reliability is in question. Does this site have a
genny? Using the  that may get you past the issue but not solving the
problem. Upgrading the inverter would be my answer too. Good luck on
presenting this to your customer.
Not so fun times

On Fri, Sep 8, 2023, 10:12 PM Ray via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> That's about what to expect from the Psuedo Sine Wave that the SWs put
> out.  They shortened the list of problem appliances significantly compared
> to "mod sine", but its a stepped pyramid wave.  Later inverters (Outback,
> Magnum) were step waves too, but just more steps, which translates to less
> trouble.
>
> Trace SW waveform
>
>
> I have cured the "washer not running on the SW" once, by adding a
> capacitor to the circuit.  I can't recommend it 100% from a safety stand
> point, but it worked for us. Some body else chime in on the possible
> dangers?  Cap blowing, fires, shorts?  Definitely needs to be in a metal
> enclosure.
>
> I think its either get a different washer or get a different inverter. At
> 22+ years, its slowly reaching the time to retire those old SWs.
>
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
>
> On 9/8/23 2:53 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> I would do a load test on the inverter. It may have a damaged FET or two.
> They do not last forever! Good Luck
>
>
>
> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> "we go where powerlines don't"
>https://offgridsolar1.com/ 
>   
> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net 
> text 209 813 0060*
>
>
> On 2023-09-08 12:30 pm, Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> New washing machines are small loads 400 Watts about.
>
> On Fri, Sep 8, 2023, 2:27 PM Darryl Thayer  wrote:
>
> I once used a ferro-resonant transformer to clean up a sine wave.  You
> have to know the power.
>
> On Fri, Sep 8, 2023, 1:59 PM Chris Daum via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> Hi folks:
>
>
>
> I have a fellow with a Trace SW5548, purchased from us in 2001.  It's
> been working  great for him all this time, but the dilemma is he's gotten
> a new Hotpoint washing machine, and its electronics don't like the old
> inverter.  Is there some sort of power conditioner or 'line tamer'
> available that will work for this appliance's operation?  Any ideas would
> be greatly appreciated.  He's rather loathe to replace his inverter if he
> doesn't need to.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> Chris Daum
>
> Oasis Montana Inc.
>
> 406-777-4309 or 4321
>
> 406-777-4309 fax
>
> www.oasismontana.com
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Iron Edison Lithiums

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Jeremy, Wrenches
So clean all of it off water is best then dust it with flower even dust and
see where it gets wet, it can be traveling down from the cap but if the
caser is cracked then maybe epoxy if you can get it clean enough, the
battery chemistry is hard on the skin so be careful.
Fun times

On Tue, Aug 29, 2023 at 4:54 PM Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Leaking from somewhere mid way in the battery case I’m guessing.
> The liquid followed a cable down to the BMS board and corroded it badly.
>
>
> Jeremy Rodriguez
> Solar Installation / Design
> All Solar, Inc.
> 1453 M St.
> Penrose Colorado 81240
>
> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.
>
> On Aug 29, 2023, at 10:30, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> 
> Jeremy, wrenches
> It's been some time since as they don't pencil very well, where are you
> seeing the leakage, case top or elsewhere
> Fun times
>
> On Tue, Aug 29, 2023, 6:53 AM Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> If anyone has had issues with the Iron Edison lithiums leaking, please
>> contact me off list
>> But , feel free to comment here if needed.
>>
>> Jeremy Rodriguez
>> Solar Installation / Design
>> All Solar, Inc.
>> 1453 M St.
>> Penrose Colorado 81240
>>
>> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Iron Edison Lithiums

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Jeremy, wrenches
It's been some time since as they don't pencil very well, where are you
seeing the leakage, case top or elsewhere
Fun times

On Tue, Aug 29, 2023, 6:53 AM Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> If anyone has had issues with the Iron Edison lithiums leaking, please
> contact me off list
> But , feel free to comment here if needed.
>
> Jeremy Rodriguez
> Solar Installation / Design
> All Solar, Inc.
> 1453 M St.
> Penrose Colorado 81240
>
> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fronius USA available 2023 & 2024 ?

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Mick, Wrenches
You may have dodged a bullet with fronius, personally l have not had a good
experience with them, yes going back to the beginning with the IG's, put
the word out for SMA -41's they are not easy to get but are programable.
Just have to ask is there a particular reason why you are going  AC
coupled? Pre-existing conduit I guess.
Funtimes

On Thu, Aug 24, 2023, 1:23 PM Mick Abraham via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi, Mechanix~ I asked a Greentech location about quantity four Fronius
> string inverter PRIMO 6.0-1. (6kW AC output, single phase 240 volt 60 hz)
> This p/n is in the Greentech portal but my particular branch hasn't done
> much with Fronius. Today the branch manager told me "Fronius no longer
> exists."
>
> Can any of you confirm or correct this report? I have an off-grid
> opportunity for which I wish to AC couple some of the PV. If Fronius USA
> has indeed "left the building", are there other string inverters that can
> be selected for country code "off grid 60 hz"? I'd like for the PV
> inverters to only curtail their output wattage if there's a frequency shift
> from the grid forming inverter (frequency/watt). Schneider XW Pro units
> would be forming the grid. Schneider has a white paper # 990-6421 on AC
> coupling but this document is almost three years old & no help at all in
> finding compatible PV inverters. Rapid shutdown is not mandated for this
> gig & each array would be evenly illuminated. IIRC, the List hasn't been
> highly enamored with SolarEdge in recent years; is that still the consensus?
>
> Thanks as always; the Wrench List is the Bomb!
>
> Mick Abraham, Proprietor
> www.abrahamsolar.com
>
> Landline: 970-731-4675
> Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584
> ᐧ
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 1/2HP ECM booster pump

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Dana, wrenches
Grunfus makes 120 vac booster pumps, MX Series as l recall they are a
variable speed tech
Fun times

On Sun, Aug 20, 2023, 9:56 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hey all you wise ones!
>
>
>
> I am looking for a recommendation on a 1/2HP ECM domestic water booster
> pump source if one exists. Currently the existing 3/4HP pump it is a 120
> VAC but could be 230VAC. They don’t need 3/4HP in this small cabin & not
> irrigating the vegetation.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dana Orzel  Great Solar Works,
> Inc.
>
> *C - 208.721.7003d...@solarwork.com
> *
>
> Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374
>
> www.greatsolarworks.comwww.solarwork.com
>
> *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  *
>
> *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
>
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Wind machines

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches
I'm sure you did all your due diligence on this location, wind rated output
is generally at 25 mph and needs 5 to 7 just to produce a watt. The math is
a cube root calculation. Small wind never really produced what people
expected. You also need to be higher than anything around the unit and
higher is better. Don't get me started on service they all need something
done so make your tower easy to lower.
Funtimes!

On Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 8:10 AM Jay via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi all
>
> Is anyone making a good quality 1-2kw wind machine?
>
> All of my searches come up with nothing.
>
> Thanks in advance
> Jay
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Hawaiian Tie in

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Does the utility allow line side tie in and then you should not need to be
concerned about the 100 amp main as long as you have the wire size correct.
Many utilities are not allowing line side tap however.
Fun times


On Tue, Aug 8, 2023, 8:11 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Oh Wise folks!
>
> Attached is a wire schematic please review. & feel free to possibly use
> for yourself in the future.
>
> I am in a bind with an interconnection where I have an apartment 6 pack
> meter  box with all 120-240v/100 amp breakers & assumed 100 amp busbars.
> The apts. were a mid 1970's original build.  There are 4 apartment with 1
> circuit/meter each & 1 house circuit/ meter for owners use.The breaker
> boxes are Sylvania (yuck). Originally I assumed a larger busbar due to 6 -
> 100 amp breakers & this was not the case. We all know about assuming...
>
> I consulted with W-2 who had assisted my lead installer in in the past
> from UT. He sent the following & though it makes sense to me, the utility
> is asking how I can have a 225 amp panel behind a 100 amp breaker. My
> response was that all we are doing is  achieving a properly sized bus bar
> to accommodate the back feed.
>
> My Utility Idaho Power requires  interconnection with a meter that has a
> load on it. Solar only meters are not allowed. This is for the owners loads
> only & he has 1 meter per apt complex at 100amps each.
>
> I am wondering if any of you have used this connection adaption to achieve
> a larger array connection & how it went?
> --
> Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003 d...@solarwork.com
> Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 "Responsible Technologies for
> Responsible People since 1988"
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k Conduit Entries

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Jason
In plenty of applications l will use couplers with chase nipples, height is
one issue but installed working height is very important. I use a 8"x8"x X
gutter and sometimes even off set that from the wall, l have had AHJ not
want to see mixed cables LVDC and AC in the same conduit so pass through
the battery conductors right out the bottom and to the battery. I just
create a template for punching into the gutter, looks clean and is safe
with easy access to the display
Fun times

On Wed, Aug 2, 2023, 8:04 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I see a lot of pictures with conduit nipples coming out of a gutter that
> are fairly long. I have a height limit issue and I'm wondering if there are
> any negative implications of using very short nipples between a wireway
> below and the inverter. I'm thinking about using close nipples or perhaps
> 2-in nipples if I have enough room.
>
> If there are any practical reasons that this will not work well, please
> let me know.
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Florida Solar Design Group
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback lithium LVD

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Jay
I don't seem to have an issue set the inverter to shut down befor the
battery and the CCwill begin to charge again untill voltage rises enough to
start the inverter back up. Also set the genny to come on even above the
inverter voltage so a shut down does not even accure. If you use lithium
don't connect the battery temp sensor, it will mess up the chargers.
Fun times

On Thu, Jul 20, 2023, 4:11 PM Jay via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I apologize in advance if this is a duplicate.
>
> I was contemplating the discussion about how to deal with an inverter that
> doesnt have the correct LBCO for a lithium LVD voltage.
>
> A suggested option for OB was to install a relay triggered by the AUX and
> controlling the inverter remote on/off switch.
>
> But if the aux switches, then the inverter is off and you won’t be able to
> charge with a generator. Right?
>
> I’m asking as I have this exact situation and I’m planning on a relay on
> the ac inverter output so the client can just turn on the generator and
> it’ll charge up.
>
> Am I missing something?
>
> Thanks
> Jay
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Damaged PV module cells

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Kent
I can assume there is no backsheet external damage, These look cell
fractures, more common on poly, they may be cause of manufacturing or a
result of overheating traces or both. Run an IR Curve test and see if this
is resulting in decreased output. Sharp had a similar issue when they
stepped up to the 200 larger modules some 20 years ago.
Fun times

On Sun, Jul 16, 2023, 2:59 PM Kent via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Found some damage to a customer's Grape CS-S-180-DJ PV modules this
> morning. Unlike anything I've ever seen; so I'm hoping that someone on this
> list can tell me the cause. I've put several photos of the cells online
> 
> so you can inspect them. While it looks like there has been some localized
> heating on the traces, there isn't any evidence of damage on the rear of
> the PV modules. These are on an off grid system charging some 12-volt
> batteries. Thanks.
>
> Kent Osterberg
> Blue Mountain Solar
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Lithium battery recommendation

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Fortress can be disassembled and moved easily, blue planet comes in
seperate parts and can be purchased in 8, 12 or 16 kWhrs and both have a
cabinet and BMS Included
Fun times

On Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 8:45 PM Eric Smiley via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Keep in mind the Fortress eVault is a 500 lb beast. Our installers
> complained about it and we've moved to smaller, rack-mount units and are
> currently testing the HomeGrid Stack'd in various configurations.
>
>
> *Eric Smiley,* Design Manager
> e...@vecoop.ca
> T: 250.703.6004 <+12507036004>
> T: 888.386.0116 <+18883860116>
> *VIRIDIANENERGY.CA <https://viridianenergy.ca/>*
>
> * <https://viridianenergy.ca/>*
>
>
> On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 at 19:34, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Jay
>> Fortress is a good solution, blueplanet is a great battery also, both
>> have been around long enough. So many manufacturers talk the big warranty
>> but don't have time in the field to support what they say. I ran a lab
>> testing batteries and saw some impossible warranties.
>> Fun times
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 3:20 PM Jay via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all
>>>
>>> I’m
>>> Looking for recommendations for a lithium battery. 48v.  150-200 kWh.
>>> System is probably going to be open comm, as the system has outback
>>> equipment. That could change but probably not.
>>> Remote monitoring is required even though it is a site with people 24/7.
>>>
>>> So far fortress and home grid. Have been recommended to look at.
>>> Blue planet is just too expensive.
>>>
>>> And PS. Fortress says that you cannot add batteries after 1 year. This
>>> goes against everything I thought I understood about lithium.
>>> Any comments about why they say that?
>>> Do others say rhat?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance
>>>
>>> Jay
>>>
>>>
>>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Lithium battery recommendation

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Jay
Fortress is a good solution, blueplanet is a great battery also, both have
been around long enough. So many manufacturers talk the big warranty but
don't have time in the field to support what they say. I ran a lab testing
batteries and saw some impossible warranties.
Fun times

On Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 3:20 PM Jay via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi all
>
> I’m
> Looking for recommendations for a lithium battery. 48v.  150-200 kWh.
> System is probably going to be open comm, as the system has outback
> equipment. That could change but probably not.
> Remote monitoring is required even though it is a site with people 24/7.
>
> So far fortress and home grid. Have been recommended to look at.
> Blue planet is just too expensive.
>
> And PS. Fortress says that you cannot add batteries after 1 year. This
> goes against everything I thought I understood about lithium.
> Any comments about why they say that?
> Do others say rhat?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Jay
>
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] High current dc combiner vibration

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Agree start with data so you know where go

On Sat, Jul 1, 2023, 9:20 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I'm going to first obtain access to an oscilloscope to characterize and
> screenshot this phenomena, both before and after any mitigation I do.
>
> On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 12:46 PM bob--- via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> We are talking to Kirk offline about this but the main issue here is that
>> the enclosure
>> for the 2000A combiner is made out of steel which is ferrous.  That means
>> that when the
>> 120 Hz ripple current induces into the chassis it can vibrate just like a
>> transformer.
>>
>> Low frequency transformer inverters are have higher ripple than the newer
>> HF transformer units
>> but they have some AC ripple on the battery cables as well.
>>
>> This combiner is evidently been around for about 8 years and we haven't
>> heard any complaints
>> but maybe others have been silent on this.  I am not surprised at all
>> that this happens.
>>
>> Aluminum chassis has the problem that it is a good conductor so when the
>> whole enclosure forms
>> around the cables, the aluminum can act as a shorted turn in a
>> transformer.  It is usually just
>> lossy but should vibrate much less, if at all.
>>
>> There are other issues in switching to aluminum that Robin mentions, here:
>>
>> *"One reason is cost, the other is fasteners, We would need to use press
>> nuts instead of snail shells. *
>> *Snail shells and sheet metal screws don’t do well in aluminum. It is too
>> soft. Aluminum would not *
>>
>>
>> *vibrate from magnetic ripple activity though." *He has some ideas to
>> make aluminum work so we will try those.
>>
>> Now, plastic could work.   Just has to be real thick.Darn physics !
>>
>> Damping can help, like Kirk tried (more can be done here too).  Keeping
>> the cables
>> together best as you can inside the chassis may help as well but moving
>> and routing
>> the cables might also reduce the buzzing some more.
>>
>> That's the latest buzz from here.
>>
>> boB
>> K7IQ
>>
>> On 6/30/2023 8:45 AM, david quattro via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>
>> Ferrite cores can be used for the battery cables to pass through to
>> reduce common mode current
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 3:59 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I have -15- sets of 4/0 cable (1 per 32 kwh stack) into the combiner.
>>> They are paired and within .25 " of one another in wire cable tray for 80%
>>> of their respective distance.
>>>
>>> The inverter to combiner sets are 2/0 for each respective inverter. They
>>> are paired (not twisted) in cable tray, anywhere from 10 -20' in length.
>>> Maybe I can send some photos, but can't at present due to computer issues.
>>>
>>> I used cable tray because the CT-rated cable is in free air, no derating
>>> of current required. But merely pairing the leads may be the issue.
>>>
>>> I could rearrange the inverter cables and twist the sets, but doing it
>>> from combiner to battery cabinets is impossible.
>>>
>>> And I'm wondering if this is really necessary if the customer is willing
>>> to live with the issue. What are the ramifications down the road?
>>> Loosening of connections I suppose would be one.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 12:40 AM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <
>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Kirk
>>>> As the batteries come up to charge does the vibration subside. Are the
>>>> battery cables spun together "corkscrew like" l have seen this correct DC
>>>> noise. I have an 8 on 8 just like your 10 and l have no noise at all, mine
>>>> come in from each side of the battery combiner, how is your install
>>>> configured, how is the cable length same close or very short to very long
>>>> some length is better on FLA's due to resistance under load and charge.
>>>> More information may help with a solution.
>>>> Fun times solar
>>>> NABCEP PV Inspector
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jun 29, 2023, 8:19 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches <
>>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> All,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am in 

Re: [RE-wrenches] High current dc combiner vibration

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches, Kirk
Once you learn what is causing the issue then deciding on what to do is
safer, If you have access to a scope that may show you a DC side
fluctuation, pulsing or plain noise in the system.
Fun times in solar

On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 4:00 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I have -15- sets of 4/0 cable (1 per 32 kwh stack) into the combiner. They
> are paired and within .25 " of one another in wire cable tray for 80% of
> their respective distance.
>
> The inverter to combiner sets are 2/0 for each respective inverter. They
> are paired (not twisted) in cable tray, anywhere from 10 -20' in length.
> Maybe I can send some photos, but can't at present due to computer issues.
>
> I used cable tray because the CT-rated cable is in free air, no derating
> of current required. But merely pairing the leads may be the issue.
>
> I could rearrange the inverter cables and twist the sets, but doing it
> from combiner to battery cabinets is impossible.
>
> And I'm wondering if this is really necessary if the customer is willing
> to live with the issue. What are the ramifications down the road?
> Loosening of connections I suppose would be one.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 12:40 AM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Kirk
>> As the batteries come up to charge does the vibration subside. Are the
>> battery cables spun together "corkscrew like" l have seen this correct DC
>> noise. I have an 8 on 8 just like your 10 and l have no noise at all, mine
>> come in from each side of the battery combiner, how is your install
>> configured, how is the cable length same close or very short to very long
>> some length is better on FLA's due to resistance under load and charge.
>> More information may help with a solution.
>> Fun times solar
>> NABCEP PV Inspector
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 29, 2023, 8:19 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> All,
>>>
>>> I am in the middle of commissioning a 480kwh BP LFP battery bank,
>>> connected to -10- OB Radian 8kw inverter/chargers.
>>>
>>> For the DC combiner I am using midnite 2000 amp combiner boxes, modified
>>> to mount  class T fuses on the positive bus, for both battery inputs and
>>> inverter outputs.
>>>
>>> For starters, I set the master inverter at a max charge rate of 20 AC
>>> amps, which equates to a DC charge of about 74 A. All the other inverters
>>> are automatically set to this charge rate as well.
>>>
>>> Turning the chargers on one by one, I started to get quite an audible
>>> vibration from the combiner box at a combined charge of about 400 to 500 A.
>>>
>>> So I took the cover off of the combiner, which was vibrating noticabllly
>>> by feel. Most of the noise was from the cover not fitting tight. But the
>>> The box itself is also vibrating by feel.
>>>
>>> I took the combined charge up to 640A dc. This level of vibration
>>> definitely increases with an increased charge rate. And I am surprised
>>> because after all, we’re not talking AC here we’re talking DC. It almost
>>> reminds me of a large AC transformer in its behavior. The vibration did not
>>> seem to be originating at the inverters, then resonating to the combiner.
>>>
>>> I can dampen the vibration by adding a few things, but I’m surprised
>>> that this is happening. All connections in the combiner are tightened
>>> properly. Ideas?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh@vermont.solar *
>>>
>>> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC*
>>>
>>> *Celebrating our 32st Anniversary 1991-2023!!*
>>>
>>> dba Vermont Solar Engineering
>>>
>>> 802.863.1202
>>> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] High current dc combiner vibration

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Kirk
As the batteries come up to charge does the vibration subside. Are the
battery cables spun together "corkscrew like" l have seen this correct DC
noise. I have an 8 on 8 just like your 10 and l have no noise at all, mine
come in from each side of the battery combiner, how is your install
configured, how is the cable length same close or very short to very long
some length is better on FLA's due to resistance under load and charge.
More information may help with a solution.
Fun times solar
NABCEP PV Inspector

On Thu, Jun 29, 2023, 8:19 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> All,
>
> I am in the middle of commissioning a 480kwh BP LFP battery bank,
> connected to -10- OB Radian 8kw inverter/chargers.
>
> For the DC combiner I am using midnite 2000 amp combiner boxes, modified
> to mount  class T fuses on the positive bus, for both battery inputs and
> inverter outputs.
>
> For starters, I set the master inverter at a max charge rate of 20 AC
> amps, which equates to a DC charge of about 74 A. All the other inverters
> are automatically set to this charge rate as well.
>
> Turning the chargers on one by one, I started to get quite an audible
> vibration from the combiner box at a combined charge of about 400 to 500 A.
>
> So I took the cover off of the combiner, which was vibrating noticabllly
> by feel. Most of the noise was from the cover not fitting tight. But the
> The box itself is also vibrating by feel.
>
> I took the combined charge up to 640A dc. This level of vibration
> definitely increases with an increased charge rate. And I am surprised
> because after all, we’re not talking AC here we’re talking DC. It almost
> reminds me of a large AC transformer in its behavior. The vibration did not
> seem to be originating at the inverters, then resonating to the combiner.
>
> I can dampen the vibration by adding a few things, but I’m surprised that
> this is happening. All connections in the combiner are tightened properly.
> Ideas?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh@vermont.solar *
>
> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC*
>
> *Celebrating our 32st Anniversary 1991-2023!!*
>
> dba Vermont Solar Engineering
>
> 802.863.1202
> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Web based system monitoring via 4GLTE uplink?

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches
I have used Verizon cellular modems, looks the same works the same just pay
for data mine was 25 per month 2 year contract, very simple, I plugged in
both the blueplanet battery's and outback mate and there we had it. I'm
sure all the carriers have the same thing.
Fun times

On Mon, Jun 5, 2023, 6:30 AM Mick Abraham via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi, Mechanix~ Web portals such as Optics-RE make for easy well-baby visits
> for off gridders. The prospective customers that I met yesterday aren't
> here full time so they may not want to commit $1200/year on satellite
> internet service, but the Verizon 4G signal is strong at the homesite.
>
> Which web-enabled battery based inverter platforms have a dongle for 4G
> LTE? I know we'd need a data type SIM card & I'd need to live with a slow
> refresh rate so the SIM wouldn't need data replenishment too often. This
> wouldn't be as good as if the site had real broadband, but maybe still
> better than nothing.
>
> So far, I've only found this type of accy with the Victron platform: their
> model GX LTE. Among the other platforms & hybrid inverters I've found next
> to nothing, but "the Wrench List is the Bomb" at knowing things that I
> don't. Any suggestions would be welcomed. Thanks in advance,
>
> Mick Abraham, Proprietor
> www.abrahamsolar.com
>
> Landline: 970-731-4675
> Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584
> ᐧ
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress LFPs & ENVY 12kw inverter

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Kirk
Personally I would go with solark that's what they do, make inverters not
other stuff just like I would use Fortress for the battery because that's
what they do, is it similar sure but why? If it's the same then go with a
known product and track record, we are seeing this mre and more and that
does not always turn out that well.
Jerry

On Thu, Jun 1, 2023 at 9:19 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> I am sizing my first Fortress system, 18.5kwh LFPs w/ their new ENVY
> inverter. Or would a Sol-Ark be a better fit? I understand both inverters
> are somewhat similar.
>
> Any opinions from the real-world of installs would be greatly appreciated.
> Thanks.
>
> --
>
> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh@vermont.solar *
>
> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC*
>
> *Celebrating our 32st Anniversary 1991-2023!!*
>
> dba Vermont Solar Engineering
>
> 802.863.1202
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Just getting old?

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Bill
You do need to verify that you also have No current, l see this quite a few
times where modules have failed just to find a shorted inverter or damaged
conduit where one wire overheats cause unknown and the cascade is they all
melt together and it's such a great short that voltage is near zero.
Just a thought with fun times
Jerry

On Mon, May 22, 2023, 12:25 PM Bill Battagin via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I went back to this array, removed all J-box covers and tested for Voc.
> The majority of the PVs were ~ 9.5Voc, about 5 were ~19 Voc, 3 were 0
> (that's zero) Voc .  The diodes are in an encapsulant.  The label says Voc
> = 22V. Another array of Mitsubishi panels takes a dive.
>
> Anybody have contact info for them or recent experience with
> their warranty?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
>
> Feather River Solar Electric
> Bill Battagin, Owner
> 4291 Nelson St.(shipping)
> 5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
> Taylorsville, CA 95983
> 530.284.1925 Office/ 530.258.1641 Cell
> CA Lic 874049
> Solar powered since 1982
> On 5/17/2023 10:25 PM, Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> Was the inverter connected at the time of testing?  If so I suspect the
> inverter is loading the solar array below Vmp
>
> On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 11:23 PM frenergy via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Wrenches,
>>
>>  I've got a call from a customer that said their (my
>> install) 17 year old GT system went dead. Basic stats: 23, Mitsubishi
>> PVMF120EC3, label says V mpp= 17.6V and Voc = 22 V; top-of-pole; SMA
>> SB3800U. Its one string of 23 PVs.  Full sun, 75 degrees ambient during
>> testing. When I checked DC voltage at the inverter landings I got ~23-29
>> volts (fluctuating) same at the input side of the DC switch.  These
>> panels have the old gasketted 4-screw covered J-boxes and screw
>> terminals inside, I removed the covers from three panels and got 9.5
>> volts at the each of the panels' screw terminals,  all the wiring
>> outside the boxes checks out.
>>
>>  The system had been functioning normally 3 weeks prior. I
>> could check voltage at more panels I guess.  Ideas?
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> Feather River Solar Electric
>> Bill Battagin, Owner
>> 4291 Nelson St.(shipping)
>> 5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
>> Taylorsville, CA 95983
>> 530.284.1925 Office/ 530.258.1641 Cell
>> CA Lic 874049
>> Solar powered since 1982
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Retail price lists

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches
Bottom line package price, all inclusive one number, I list all the major
components inverter, modules ect. and all of what is included permits
engineering thats it system cost, tax incentive, rebate (if any) no a la
carte here sorry.
But thats just me!

On Tue, May 16, 2023 at 8:11 AM Jay via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi All
>
> I have a question about how wrenches are dealing with charging for
> equipment as most prices of most equipment on line at or below wholesale.
>
> If people are marking it up, how much? what metric are people using?  I
> think victron might be the only company I’ve actually seen a retail price
> list for in years.
> Maybe it’s just marking up labor costs a lot?
>
> I’m not doing all that much work these days but enough that I’m trying to
> figure this out.
>
> Thanks
> Jay
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Metering

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Lary do you want analog or digital, egauge is great for remote monitoring
or just your basis utility meter and socket is a inexpensive solution a
simple results.
Jerry

On Thu, May 11, 2023, 1:21 PM Larry Brown via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

>
> Does anyone have a recommendation for a high quality meter that can be
> installed near the Main 200 Amp Electric Service Panel at the Point Of
> Interconnection in the Main Service Panel for a Grid Tied System
>
> The client wants to be able to track the electricity the household is
> actually using
> And how much the solar electric system is producing
>
> In the net metering arrangement with Central Hudson in NY, all the client
> gets to see on their bill is the net result of the solar credits subtracted
> from the actual usage. In this case, the solar generated credits is
> consistently zero because the usage exceeds the production
>
> Thanks
>
> Larry Brown
> Sun Mountain
>
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sharp Module search

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Jeremy
I got a bunch of sharp 185's
Jerry

On Mon, May 1, 2023, 1:35 PM Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

>  If anyone has a model # NE170-U1  Or similar size / wattage 72 cell
> modules laying around in good condition please contact me off the list
>
> Jeremy Rodriguez
> Solar Installation / Design
> All Solar, Inc.
> 1453 M St.
> Penrose Colorado 81240
>
> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Attaching PV with VELCRO

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches, Corey
Yes it was a thing in California but soon fell off the radar, They were
based or had a shop in Sacramento CA. It was mainly designed for BIPV but
was adopted to framed panels, grounding is an issue, mounting of the
electrical another. l have had bolted modules rip out of unirac in Hawaii
during a hurricane so no velcro for me. I would also question the adhesive
if it will take years of heat, water and the material it's adhered too.
Fun times


On Tue, Apr 11, 2023, 2:41 PM Corey Shalanski via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Wrenches,
>
> As far out as the subject line might seem, a company in Italy has
> apparently developed a system for attaching PV arrays to flat roofs using
> strips of VELCRO
> 
> .
>
> The potential advantages of this system seem hard to ignore:
>- lightweight
>- no ballast required (also, no mechanical attachments)
>- quick installation and easy assembly
>
> Has anyone ever encountered anything similar here in the states? Any
> opinions about the feasibility of this approach?
>
> Corey Shalanski
> Portland, Jamaica
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Backwards compatibility Schneider

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches, Mac
You might want to find out what size battery you currently have so you can
build from there, this way you can know the current values under sized Li
on will make for an unhappy customer service.
Fun times

On Tue, Mar 28, 2023, 8:07 PM Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hello Wrenches,
>
> I have someone who would like to move away from Iron Edison batteries.
> They want to go to Lithium, I'm thinking 2 x  eVault Max would be a good
> fit for them.  They have dual 5548 XW+ (not XW Pro) inverters with a
> Schneider Gateway device,
>
> I am curious if anyone has had issues/challenges trying to get closed loop
> communications to work with this set up.  If not, how about schneiders
> battery monitor with Lithium?
>
> Thanks!
> --
>
>
>
> Mac Lewis
>
> *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Attaching Array To or Through Ply

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches
Sounds like a SIP's type product, there are quite a few multi hole
attachment bases that are designed for SIP's. Most will have a larger base,
lots of holes for screws to attach that do not require rafters underneath
to attach.
Fun times

On Wed, Mar 29, 2023, 8:30 AM frenergy via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Matt,
>
> I guess my questions are 1/2" plywood or 5/8" and how thick is
> the foam?  Oh and I assume its nominal 2X6 T?  Do you know how the
> plywood is attached?.through the foam into the T?... to stringers,
> nailers or whatever they're called?
>
> Bill
>
> Feather River Solar Electric
> Bill Battagin, Owner
> 4291 Nelson St.(shipping)
> 5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
> Taylorsville, CA 95983
> 530.284.1925 Office/ 530.258.1641 Cell
> CA Lic 874049
> Solar powered since 1982
>
> On 3/29/2023 7:53 AM, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> Hi Matt,
> I've used these in the past when on a comp roof and there was no good way
> to get into the rafters (or TJI's in this case)
> https://sunmodo.com/nanomount/
>
> You might want to replace the screws with something shorter and beefier
> though to get more grip if you are only going into 1/2" plywood.
>
> Cheers,
> Dave
>
> On Wed, Mar 29, 2023 at 10:38 AM Matt Sherald via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I've run into a roof-mounted job where the roof is built-up with the
>> following:
>>
>> Comp shingle
>> Plywood
>> Foam board
>> T (roof deck, but also interior ceiling)
>>
>> The beams that hold the t up are wide-spaced and not convenient for
>> fastening the full extent of the array.
>>
>> This being the case, I was considering other fastening options and am
>> writing to pick the collective brain of the Wrenches to see how others have
>> addressed similar situations.
>>
>> One thought I had was to use the PLP Easy Mounting Foot and I'd be glad
>> for any opinions on that or another solution.
>>
>> -Matt
>>
>> --
>> Matt Sherald
>> PIMBY Energy, LLC
>> 304-704-5943
>>
>>
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> --
> [image: Logo] 
> Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
> Owner | Sungineer Solar
> p: he | him | his
> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
> w: www.sungineersolar.com 
> c: (607) 288-2898
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Intermittent

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches/Hilton
Home run connections, confirm brand, had issue where it needed more volts
to overcome the poor connections. You will need to be on site with at least
two techs and check each homerun first but l have had module to module
issues. I have also had internal issues at the Jbox some brands are just
pushed in and don't seem to work well.
Got to love PV


On Thu, Mar 16, 2023, 2:15 PM Hilton Dier via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hello Wrenches
>
> Here’s a classic problem for you. I installed an array of 11 Trina 380s on
> a ground mount, commissioned January 6 of this year. It worked fine for a
> while, but in the last week it has had an intermittent power problem.
>
> For example, this morning it was putting out zero watts at the inverter. I
> measured voltage at the disconnect at the array and got zero volts. I
> checked all the connections and wires and it all seemed solid. I had to
> leave so I couldn’t start isolating modules. I came back this afternoon and
> it was producing an appropriate amount of power for the light conditions.
>
> What’s the most obvious thing that could be going on? Some kind of micro
> crack and thermal expansion?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Hilton Dier III
> Renewable Energy Design
> Missisquoi River Hydro LLC
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Inverter bypass

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches
It might be easier to use the wire cabinet for the radian, but hey thats
just me

On Thu, Mar 2, 2023, 9:47 AM Kristopher Schmid via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I have a stand alone system that was upgraded from an FX inverter to a
> Radian WITHOUT  the companion load center.  I would like to add an inverter
> bypass circuit to operate the house on generator power.  There used to be a
> 4 slot breaker panel (SqD?) with the rocker switch preventing both breakers
> from being in the on position simultaneously.  I have not been able to find
> it on the interweb.  Anyone know of something out there that would meet my
> needs?
>
> Kris
>
>
> Shine On!
>
> Kris Schmid
> Legacy Solar, LLC
> 137 West 1st Avenue
> Luck, WI 54853
> www.legacysolar.com
> 715-653-4295
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician
> BSEE
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Voltage Rise

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches, Dave
I have had this issue, first turn off everything, check static voltage,
this will drive everything else. If the static is 240 L-L look at the
utility side you might have small conductors, you might also have a
transformer size issue bottlenecking the current.  Next turn loads more the
better watch if there is a drop and how much. Now turn off everything and
power up the solar again watch the voltage at the meter if it climbs up and
close to limit it might be the feeders. It's all process of elimination.
Lots of fun


On Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 9:03 AM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I've got a customer who is having issues with high voltage at their house.
> This first became an issue after installing 23.1kw of AC solar output. They
> have some GREE heat pumps which have been having some failures. The heat
> pump people are saying that the problem is that the voltage is above 252V.
>
> The grid voltage was measured at 246V with the solar off, and 260V with
> the solar cranking. The inverters are within 10' of the MSP where there is
> a line side connection. Then there is 4/0 AL cable which has to go roughly
> 175' before it reaches the transformer. At 246V and 92A, there should only
> be about a 3.6V rise, or maybe 4V including the wire from the inverters to
> the combiner to the MSP. Yet somehow there is about 14V of rise.
>
> The service entrance cable is buried. It is in conduit where it goes into
> and out of the ground, but I have no idea whether there is conduit for most
> of the run underground. Maybe there is a nick in the cable underground
> which has caused corrosion? Does anyone have any ideas of how to find the
> cause of the increased resistance? I should go back out there with an IR
> camera to check the connections that I can at least get to in the house.
>
> I have suggested that they install a buck/boost transformer on the heat
> pump circuits to bring down the voltage a little bit. But they are also
> concerned about the high voltage causing issues with other electrical
> appliances in the house. Does anyone have any anecdata to show whether
> there are other hidden issues if the house is at 260V during times of high
> solar production?
>
> Thanks!
> -Dave
>
> --
> [image: Logo] 
> Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
> Owner | Sungineer Solar
> p: he | him | his
> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
> w: www.sungineersolar.com 
> c: (607) 288-2898
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Thermal tank coils

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Any plumbing supply shop has these, soft copper comes in 50 feet and up,you
can use 1t2",5/8" or 3/4" I use double 1/2" and "T" it on top of the tank,
Funtimes

On Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 4:16 PM Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Thermal Wrenches,
> can someone recommend a supplier for pre-coiled stainless or copper tube
> heat exchangers?
>
>
> Jeremy Rodriguez
> Solar Installation / Design
> All Solar, Inc.
> 1453 M St.
> Penrose Colorado 81240
>
> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Battery Heater

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Pet heater have worked for me, I air gap a sealed heater box under the
battery, thermostat inside the top of the battery.  It's slow and low power
but does the trick
Fun times

On Wed, Feb 8, 2023, 3:05 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi All;
>
> I have a fresh Fortress Evault installation with a Solark inverter.  The
> batteries are indoors in the center of the house, but the customer is
> not there full time, so the battery is unfortunately going below
> freezing.  What are the best options for setting up a heating system for
> the E Vault?
>
> Here are ideas that I have not tried, but am considering:
> 1) add a 240 v, 1000 w baseboard heater in the room near the battery
> that is wired to only run off the generator.  Run the generator until
> the heat comes up, and then hopefully after 30 minutes, the battery
> would begin accepting a charge.
>
> 2) Add an 120 vac heating blanket under the evault that would be wired
> to a thermostat, but also have a relay control from the PV system, so
> that the heater would only operate when the sun was out, and the battery
> was below 50F.   I don't quite know how to set this up with the Solark's
> load controls.
>
> I've considered some DC options, but they don't make much sense, since
> the inverter has to be on to charge from PV anyway.
>
> The long term plan is for the client to finish the insulation, and sheet
> rock, and add a gas wall heater in there as needed.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> in the Colorado mountain cold.
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar and tenant billing

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Carl
Wrenches, E Guage make a great energy monitoring platform
Jerry

On Mon, Jan 30, 2023, 5:43 PM Carl Adams via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hello wrenches,
> I have a client that is installing solar on a commercial building where he
> has four points of connection for four tenants.  Are there any good
> solutions out there for metering power for tenants in this situation.
> Production metering will be done via  SolarEdge revenue grade meters.
>
> With kind of regards
> Carl Adams
> SunRock Solar
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Re: [RE-wrenches] VillaGrid Lithium Titanium Batteries

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Hey wrenches
I have been to the Sacramento facility, they are 48 vdc nom. We ran some
tests on site pushing pretty hard and the battery did well, no volt drop,
was well over 250 amps for an extended period of time.  It might be good to
reach out to them and do a visit to see how it works, bring your own DC
Clamp to confirm the instrument readings.
Jerry

On Mon, Jan 30, 2023, 2:45 PM Kienan Maxfield via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Howie,
>
> I have never heard about them, but I am interested. If you get any more
> information, I'd love to hear about it. Do they do 48V batteries? or an AC
> ESS?
>
> Are there spec sheets available?
>
> I've been able to find very little information about them.
>
> Thanks,
> Kienan
>
> *Green-Go Solar Distribution LLC*
> *Maxfield Solar LLC (installation and consulting company)*
> *maxfieldso...@hotmail.com* 
> * (801) 631-5584 (Cell) *
> --
> *From:* RE-wrenches  on behalf
> of Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches 
> *Sent:* Monday, January 23, 2023 7:00 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches 
> *Cc:* Howie Michaelson 
> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] VillaGrid Lithium Titanium Batteries
>
> Has anyone had any experience with the VillaGrid Lithium Titanium
> batteries?  They are supposedly usable in below zero temperatures, which of
> course the LFP batteries are not.  They also apparently have a 20 year
> 10,000 cycle warranty (not that I really put much stock in being able to
> exercise a warranty even 15 years out). They are doing their own
> distribution at this point, but the sales person wouldn't tell me pricing
> until I sat in on a more formal presentation, which tells me I'm not going
> to be overly thrilled with the price point.  They are very new on the
> market, but just thought I'd ask.
> Thanks,
> Howie
>
> *Howie Michaelson **Sun Catcher*
>
> *NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ *
>
> *Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service 802-272-0004*
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Remote battery disconnects

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches.
You might want to consider turning off the inverter as a solution to
turning off the batteries, we have this feature as part of our installs
with outback real simple then no chance of AC anywhere, Not going to pop a
CC, no chance of run on and it has passed every time. Just a thought that's
a safe solution. With Outback you just have to turn off the master nothing
else.
"Fun time in a crazy world"

On Mon, Jan 30, 2023, 7:58 AM Brian Mehalic via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hey folks - love the Code, hate it, don’t care about it or follow it: it
> doesn’t matter to me. But if you want to change it you have to realize it
> is a process with rules and procedures, and posting on this list that “the
> NEC” should immediately “issue a memo” to do what you want or change what
> you don’t like has ZERO effect.
>
> Brian
>
> On Jan 30, 2023, at 4:47 AM, Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> 
>
> I don't think the discussion has forked at all.  A solution to this
> problem, and it is the best solution all things considered, including
> firefighter exposure to 10 ft of conductors that I have a hard time imaging
> them being exposed to,  is for the NEC to issue a memo IMMEDIATELY
> indicating that this section of the code is no longer to be considered a
> requirement and that the next Code cycle will eliminate this requirement.
>
> The other solutions discussed would only work for a few configurations
> realistically and would introduce more danger. Chris
>
>
>
> On 1/29/2023 2:41 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> James, Brian and others:
>
>
>
> Thank you all for the lively discussion.  I am always interested in my
> colleague’s perspectives and this has been illuminating.
>
>
>
> It appears to me the discussion has forked:  One topic is how to deal with
> the reality of the new code regarding a very narrow scenario: ESS inside of
> a residence.  The other topic is: has the NEC evolved to be overly
> restrictive without factual basis?
>
>
>
> Regarding the first topic, it’s in black and white that we must provide
> battery disconnecting means for energy storage systems located in one or
> two family homes if the battery voltage exceeds 60 VDC.  There are very few
> areas that do not adopt the NEC.  If you install ESS you will eventually
> have to deal with this code requirement one way or another.
>
>
>
> Due to lax enforcement or unfamiliarity on the part of local building
> departments, some of you may be able to skirt this requirement.  This is
> great until something happens.  If your non-compliant installation causes a
> loss, you will end up in the defendants chair, not the building inspector.
>
>
>
> Here is how I approach these compliance conundrums:  If I could argue the
> code does not apply or there is a good reason to waive the requirement; if
> the building official agrees; if I feel the installation is really and
> truly safe without meeting the  requirement—only then could I proceed
> without the disconnect.  Otherwise I am going to have to find a way to
> comply.
>
>
>
> As contractors, each of you makes those decisions every day:  What is safe
> enough for my clients?  If any of you think you know more than the people
> who write the codes, then install what you can get away with and keep your
> fingers crossed.  I am not willing to live like that.
>
>
>
> Regarding the second topic: Are we being picked on by an overly
> scare-mongering NFPA?
>
>
>
> What is interesting here is that while most electrical codes are trying to
> prevent house fires, this particular section is trying to protect fire
> fighters after a fire starts (or an earthquake happens or a dump truck runs
> into your house, etc.).
>
>
>
> When California first adopted roof clearances for fire fighters, I got my
> feelings hurt because I was losing business and I did not understand what
> it takes to fight a house fire.  I spoke with a few fire fighters and
> learned about roof and wall venting and how it is affected by prevailing
> winds.  I came around to appreciate there is a real need for rooftop fire
> setbacks.
>
>
>
> It is self-evident why firefighters would not want to cut into a wall with
> a demo saw if there are energized, high amperage conductors in or on that
> wall.  This code requirement for battery disconnecting means is
> fundamentally sensible.  That ends the discussion for me.
>
>
>
> Oh, yeah, the charge controller blowing up thing:  Does anyone have any
> factual data to share on this?  Regardless of that, does it really matter
> if the charge controller is saved but the house burns down?
>
>
>
> The islanding thing:  To be compliant, all ungrounded battery conductors
> need to be disconnected.  This includes the charge controller circuit(s).
> With the charge controllers and inverters disconnected from the batteries
> and from each other there cannot be DC “islanding”.
>
>
>
> The house flooding thing:  At the 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Remote battery disconnects

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

William
We have done 80 kwh Blue planet resi installs in the past (at the time this
was as large as we could go in resi) anyway the BMS has a push to start and
on/off buttons we just connected into them and we compliant, rotory switch
at 24 volts 10 mA is all that is needed, Now not all BMS.s can do this so
verify first, Fortress has a start up button but I am not sure if it is
serviceable like blue planet is.
Jerry

On Fri, Jan 27, 2023 at 11:26 AM William Miller via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Friends:
>
>
>
> We have a large-ish residential off-grid system install coming up.  The
> AHJ has said they will require a remote battery disconnect.  I suspect
> there will be fire sprinkler controls and a pressure pump that would become
> inoperable if this system were engaged.  In this case we will apply for a
> waiver.
>
>
>
> The last time this was discussed here as far as I can find was October of
> 2020.  At that time no one suggested any specific battery disconnect
> equipment.
>
>
>
> To further clarify my needs:  There will be 4 or 5 Radian 8048 inverters
> (5 or 6 4/0 battery circuits, ~350A each) and two 175 amp PV recombiner
> outputs.  That is 6 poles of high amperage DC disconnects.
>
>
>
> The battery array will be either a UnigyII VRLA or a lithium of a brand
> yet to be determined.  In the case of lithium we will look for a system
> that can remotely enable a BMS shutdown.  In the case of a VRLA lead-acid,
> we will not have that luxury.
>
>
>
> I have done some considerable research and have not found viable, high
> amperage, remotely activated shutdown equipment.
>
>
>
> I am wondering what hardware others may be using to achieve remote battery
> disconnecting in these types of cases..
>
>
>
> William
>
>
>
> Miller Solar
>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>
> 805-438-5600
>
> www.millersolar.com
>
> CA Lic. 773985
>
>
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Brand X equipment?

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches and Bruce
I have sent some people there that are not practical and want want want,
they are a DYI shop and what l get from customers is there in house design
and engineering is not what l would use myself. As a last ditch l tell the
prospective buyers to get what they want and l can do an install with only
warranty on the work performed and if there is an issue it's on them. The
solar industry is getting inundated with DYI guys and out of state shops
selling incomplete so called kits resulting in a bad customer experience so
its touchy to even get involved.
"Not so fun times"

On Mon, Jan 23, 2023 at 9:40 AM Bruce Erickson via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> I have a long time off-grid customer who is ready to upgrade his FX/L-16
> system, and I was suggesting Sol-Ark with Ampliphi closed loop. After
> getting my rough estimate, and being the due-diligence guy that he is, he
> asked around a bit. Someone who has “some” off-grid experience recommended
> equipment called EG4. It looks to have most of the features of a Sol-Ark
> plus offers server-rack Lithium batteries, all for about half the price.
> Looks like a cheap knock-off to me, and I said so, but promised to ask
> around. Anyone had any experience or know anything about these?
>
> Thanks,
> Bruce
>
> Bruce Erickson
> Mendocino Solar Service
> 707-937-1701
> PO Box 1252
> Mendocino, CA 95460
>
>
> "Serving the Solar System"
>
> https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-lifepower4-lithium-battery-48v-100ah/
>
>
> https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-6-5k-off-grid-inverter-6500ex-48/
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Re: [RE-wrenches] gravity storage of excess PV generation

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Kirk, wrenches,
There are several gravity storage systems out there in the renewable energy
industry. I did water lift and drain back through lift pumps and
hydro-electric. No different than all storage systems, it's all about
capacity. Great talks
Jerry

On Wed, Jan 4, 2023, 7:23 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Happy New year All,
>
> I'm sure most have heard of this technology, using excess PV-powered
> motors to raise large weights to the top of a tower, then slowly lowering
> them to release energy, the motors now rotating as generators.
>
> I've only read articles of a few of these under construction on a utility
> scale. I wonder if this has been tried on a smaller scale anywhere.
> Thoughts? Resources? Thanks.
>
> --
>
> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh@vermont.solar *
>
> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC*
>
> *Celebrating our 32st Anniversary 1991-2023!!*
>
> *www.vermont.solar*
> 
>
> dba Vermont Solar Engineering
>
> 802.863.1202
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 24V Multi Mode Inverter Options

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches, Chris
 I would only look at outback, Date available and easy to access, can be
easily connected to additional components in the future.
Fun Times


Tue, Jan 3, 2023 at 6:43 AM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hey there,
>
> I have a client with a dead 24V Xantrex SW…It had a good 20+ year run with
> a few rebuilds. The customer is looking to upgrade their inverter, but keep
> their 24V battery bank. My first thoughts were Outback FX or Victron
> Quattro, but I am curious what others are using out there. It seems like
> 24V has been left in the dust with regards to more sophisticated multimode
> and hybrid inverters. Schnider makes a 24V SW but it has a short warranty
> and after a welded AC input relay I’m not a big fan of that model.
>
> Just wondering if I am missing any options out there?
>
> Kindly,
>
> Chris
> --
> Chris Sparadeo
>
>
> C_802-369-4458
> H_802-728-3059
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Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA SB and LiFe

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches, Glen
I have installed fortress Evaults on both the older and newer SMA SI
inverter/chargers, you will need to make some changes to the charger config
with the temp sensor. It is somewhat wild in the current state and must be
locked down, it is not very difficult to do and makes a big difference on
how the charger works. You will need to remove the battery temp sensor and
install a rheostat with a fixed resistor to simulate the 25 C reading, the
resistor gets you close but the rheostat can be adjusted for your
particular climate and system. BTW, this goes for most any Li type battery.
Outback is easier as the sensor unplugged defaults to 25 C.
Jerry Fun Times!!

On Mon, Jan 2, 2023 at 1:16 PM Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hello all – best wishes for the new year.
>
>
>
> I have a client with an aging (dead) AGM (16x Concorde PVX-3050T) battery
> bank with two Sunny Island 5048 inverters (and a few SB in the mix too) in
> a GTWB configuration.
>
> Has anyone successfully replaced an AGM battery bank with a LiFe ESS
> solution with closed loop comms and Sunny Islands?
>
> Something like a Fortress eVault max?
>
>
>
> Or should I simply replace the existing AGM’s with the same model
> batteries and let it go another 10 years?
>
>
>
> Thanks for the feedback!
>
> Glenn
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback vfx 3648 question

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches, Jay
You may want to remove the battery temp sensor and see what it does, an
open/short in the sensor will send it all over to compensate for the range
issue, the issue may also be in the temp compensation board inside the
inverter.
Jerry


On Tue, Jan 3, 2023 at 6:16 AM Jay via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Has anyone had a vfx sort of not pay attention to it charging current
> settings,
>
> I have a customer who’s older vfx will do the following
>
> Settings are 5 amps ac, 5 amp ac  charge
>
> It’ll run at about 10 amps dc charging
> Then randomly go up to 30 amps dc then back down. Maybe 15 seconds
> Later go up to 25 amps and back down. Kinda all over the place
>
> Then will stay at the lower amps for some period of time.
>
> I’m thinking it’s a hardware problem?
>
> And given the age a new board set is probably in order.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Thx
> Jay
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex AC Fault 186.6v

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

The xantrex had one fused line on some of the GT lines,as l recall its a 15
or 20, no this is not the GFI Fuse, old SMA's also had just one.

On Thu, Dec 8, 2022, 1:14 PM Sam Haraldson via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Howdy Wrenches,
>
> Any "old timers" here care to chime in with some basic info on what I
> might be heading out to see at a 10+ year old ground mount?  It's a Xantrex
> displaying the message AC Fault 186.6v.  I'm prepared to head out there and
> troubleshoot blind if no one has anything to offer up but figured why not
> post a quick message here in case anyone has insight they wish to share
> with me prior to my visit next week.
>
> Subsequently since this is a ground mount it doesn't need rapid shutdown
> so if the inverter has failed I probably have some decent options to
> replace it.  If you've had good luck with a particular brand to use for
> swaps please share that intel as well.  I don't know how big the array is
> so all I'm looking for is brands and not models.
>
> Most appreciated,
> Sam
> Sam Haraldson 
> Installation & Service Manager
> 
>
>
> | o. (406) 551-6135
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex AC Fault 186.6v

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches
First of all confirm as it might well be the inverter, SMA is a great
solution for a replacement however like much we deal with are in short
supply, if it is a battery inverter then the Solark or Outback are good
solutions.

On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 1:14 PM Sam Haraldson via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Howdy Wrenches,
>
> Any "old timers" here care to chime in with some basic info on what I
> might be heading out to see at a 10+ year old ground mount?  It's a Xantrex
> displaying the message AC Fault 186.6v.  I'm prepared to head out there and
> troubleshoot blind if no one has anything to offer up but figured why not
> post a quick message here in case anyone has insight they wish to share
> with me prior to my visit next week.
>
> Subsequently since this is a ground mount it doesn't need rapid shutdown
> so if the inverter has failed I probably have some decent options to
> replace it.  If you've had good luck with a particular brand to use for
> swaps please share that intel as well.  I don't know how big the array is
> so all I'm looking for is brands and not models.
>
> Most appreciated,
> Sam
> Sam Haraldson 
> Installation & Service Manager
> 
>
>
> | o. (406) 551-6135
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sola-ark cold morning

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

This is interesting, set all aside temps, how its constructed, the power
cycle is what changed it. Sounds like the inverter(s) were stuck in a
finish charge, this may be a programming issue, is it available on line to
watch remotely, has it done that again, next day?
Fun times programming

On Sun, Dec 4, 2022, 5:22 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hey Now All Wise ones!
>
>
>
> An of gird client emailed yesterday that his Solark had been accepting
> only 350 watts of a 4KW input from the array. The modules are Q-cell 325
> watt 2 strings of 7 modules.
>
>
>
> Sunrise, full sun, no clouds so no edge of cloud effect, negative temps @
> -6˚F, he waited all day with no improvement or change in the charge rate
> consistent 350watts input & then same thing next morning. Negative temps &
> full sun & 350watts solar input.
>
>
>
> He turned the Solark off for 10 minutes & then turned it back on & 4KW
> charge input returned. The Solark did not turn off or deliver any alarm or
> warning.
>
>
>
> My initial thought was over-voltage spike, we designed for a -25˚F
> scenario & 110 PSF snow load. Beefy!
>
>
>
> I did not ask if it was windy additionally. Could this contribute to a
> colder array temp? I have always been of the impression that wind chill did
> not affect metal or glass that it has to do with moisture being driven off.
>
>
>
> Thoughts & suggestions?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dana Orzel  Great Solar Works, Inc.
>
> *C - 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com
> *
>
> Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374
>
> www.greatsolarworks.comwww.solarwor.com
>
> *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  *
>
>
>
> *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
>
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Large current battery combiners, UL Listing

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches, William
I did a few back up systems for data hubs, we had 250+ kWhr systems. We had
to have a firewall between the batteries and everything else. We used
copper stock 1/2 x 2" and 20' long, each bank connected to the buss with
its own 250 a breaker, the buss was above the batteries mounted to SS strut
using 1000 volt insulators on both positive and negative. The power
conditioners were on the opposite side of the wall again all connected to
the buss going to each unit and again protected. Was very clean, no line
loss, very clean and was duplicated in several locations. We also had a 125
k cummins  genny outside that would take over to keep us all connected.
Jerry
PS, we did not tap and we used brass bolts and nuts, l dont recall why but
it may have not been able to torg enough.


On Fri, Dec 2, 2022, 12:42 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Colleagues:
>
>
>
> I am gearing up to tap some more copper.  I assume this is a pertinent
> subject since bus bars are going to be needed frequently for any storage
> work.
>
>
>
> I bought the fancy drill press with the tapping function and I am setting
> it up.  I ran a few tests and the functionality of the tool is pretty
> amazing.  I still need to work on programming it to reverse when needed.  I
> am close.  I also ordered a cross vise for part holding.
>
>
>
> I found this tutorial
> 
> on line that has provided me with some valuable insight on different styles
> of taps.
>
>
>
> William
>
>
>
> Miller Solar
>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>
> 805-438-5600
>
> www.millersolar.com
>
> CA Lic. 773985
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches
> *Sent:* Monday, September 12, 2022 7:39 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Cc:* Michael Morningstar
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Large current battery combiners, UL Listing
>
>
>
> No, I haven't. I'll do some testing tomorrow as we have 60 holes/taps to
> do in the above mentioned bussing
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 7:54 AM frenergy via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> Michael,
>
>  Are you using kerosene as a cutting fluid?  We've had
> better luck with that in softer than steel metals.
>
> Bill
>
> Feather River Solar Electric
> Bill Battagin, Owner
> 4291 Nelson St.
> Taylorsville, CA 95983
> 530.284.7849
> CA Lic 874049
>
> On 9/11/2022 7:00 PM, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches wrote:
> > We've gotten around needing UL listings for one-off in house
> > fabrication by running things through a licensed engineer. Right now
> > we are building a gutter bus which has two 1/2" x 4" x 20' copper bars
> > in a 10" x 10" gutter. We are using 2" x 9" x 9" UDPM plates with
> > slots routed out for the bars as insulators. This is for 24 Discover
> > AES and 8 Sol-Ark's. It usually costs about 1K to have an engineer
> > sign off on our designs.
> >
> > I'd be interested in learning tricks for tapping 3/8" in thick copper.
> > I've never been able to get consistent results and resort to
> > thru-bolting.
>
>
> --
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> --
>
> Michael Morningstar
>
>
>
> Morningstar Electric
>
> PO Box 1494
>
> Mount Shasta, CA 96067
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Battery Problems

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

This is great to hear even as l have used fortress with no tech support
issues but rather than a phone conversation a zoom might be better as you
can hear and see from the horses mouth. Add in all the notes of all of the
questions and get an answer back one time not a dozen.
Just a thought
Jerry

On Thu, Dec 1, 2022, 3:22 PM Jeremy Coxon via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> HI Wrenches,
>
> A couple of weeks ago this thread came up - main topic was lack of tech
> support from Fortress.  A few days later I was contacted by Marc Zeitlin,
> Fortress’s
> Regional sales manager Midwest.  We haven’t used Fortress yet, but I
> basically reiterated the concerns that were expressed on this thread and
> said that I’d be interested once they had their Tech support issues ironed
> out.  To my surprise Marc really took that feedback and ran with it all the
> way up to offering me and those of you that are interested a call with
> their CEO and anyone else we would like to talk to.  I offered to send this
> note to the list and invite you all to join the call.  I would think we’d
> want to keep the numbers manageable, but we can figure that out.
>
> I don’t have a horse in the race and have no association with Fortress,
> but I thought it might be a really good opportunity for those of you that
> have more experience with Fortress to get a direct line with their CEO and
> main tech folks so that we can hopefully improve things for all.  Marc has
> proposed Thursday January 5th at 10am.  Let me know directly at
> jco...@sunwindpowerinc.com if you’re interested and I’ll pass your name
> along so they can get this set up.
>
> Best Regards,
> Jeremy Coxon NABCEP # 091308-21
> MWBE Certified
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark/Fortress charging issue

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches, Howie
As SOC climbs the rate of current will reduce current flow, what was the
SOC when you had both connected and configured master slave with in the
batteries
Fun times

On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 9:59 PM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Good Evening,
>
> I have a frustrating charging issue involving 2 Fortress eVault Maxs
> connected to a Sol-Ark 15k. Commissioned the system last week, replacing a
> legacy off-grid Dual Stack SunnyIsland 5048s and 2-volt Rolls battery
> system.  Initially, we connected one of the eVaults to the Sol-Ark,
> programmed it to Fortress' and Sol-Ark's specs, setup closed loop, and
> things seemed fine.  The battery charged at around 95 amps off the 20kW
> Kohler. The next day we connected the 2nd eVault, went through the
> procedures as Fortress suggested, made the necessary settings changes in
> the Sol-Ark, and that is when the issue started.
>
> Ever since we connected the 2nd eVault, we have not been able to get the
> charge rate much above a combined total of 35 amps.  Fortress has pretty
> much said that it can't be anything on their end (although the
> communication with them has been very much limited and frustrating). They
> say that nothing on their side would limit the charge rate to that low,
> especially if the batteries were in a lower state of charge.  We've talked
> to at least 3 different Sol-Ark technicians more than once.  We have
> changed the setting between closed loop, % SOC, and Battery Voltage
> multiple times.  We've tried dropping back to a single battery, both the
> first one we had connected and the second one (changing the battery setup
> and the Sol-Ark parameters, but have only seen at times a moderate increase
> in maximum charge rate (up to about 40 amps total).
>
> This small increase happened after a Fortress technician suggested that we
> turn on both the generator and the grid charging toggles (the generator is
> connected to the grid port on the Sol-Ark as per Sol-Ark's recommendation.
> Sol-Ark has run out of suggestions at the moment, and are having us cycle
> the batteries tonight and they will start another charge cycle in the
> morning to see if having a lower SOC along with the firmware reload will
> change anyhing (I don't think it will - it didn't the last several times.
>
> Has anybody seen this type of behavior before?  I don't think it is a
> settings issue, as several technicians have gone through them, I have gone
> over them many times using the Fortress/Sol-Ark integration white papers.
> Hoping to get higher level  tech involved ASAP, since I don't feel like the
> lower level techs know enough to provide useful ideas.
>
> Thanks,
> Howie
>
> *Howie Michaelson**Sun Catcher*
>
> *NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™*
>
> *Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service802-272-0004*
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Re: [RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches, Christopher
I have done quite a few and per solark have always connected in the
inverter with no issues, Now with that connecting to the output side it
would do much the same work until it did not then shut off the modules.
Fun times

On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 6:33 AM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi, We are doing our first system with these two devices. The inverter is
> SolArk 12P (mutimode) and the Tigo product for RS is the TS4F.  Tigo has me
> a little bit walking in circles.
>
> I told them that SolArk says not to use the 12VDC RS output terminals for
> connecting the transmitter.  I gave them the attached drawing which they
> ask for, which shows the transmitter connected to a 120VAC/12VDC breaker
> which they supply.  They told me to wire the 120VAC source to the main
> service panel so the array would shut down on loss of power. I told them
> that is exactly NOTwhat I wanted to happen as that would stop the battery
> charging when there is a loss of utility power. I said I wanted the 120VAC
> source to be the back up loads panel. After about a week of calls and
> emails, I got an email back saying to use the SolArk 12VDC terminals for
> RS.  I just emailed them a screen shot of the SolArk manual that says not
> to do that.
>
> At this point, I am asking anyone on the list to let me know how they
> wired the transmitter successfully. Thank you for any guidance, Chris Warfel
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>  Christopher Warfel
>  ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
> PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
> 401-466-8978
> 
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Battery Problems

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches and Ray
So did you properly configuer the master slave battery config, I have
several set up with no issues SOC is within1 to 2% and volatge is the same,
what inverter/chargers are you using are you still connnected to bat temp
sensors I assume there is no connection to the inverter(s)
Jerry

On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 11:02 AM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Greetings Fellow Wrenches;
>
> Based on glowing reports from the RE list, I finally used Fortress for a
> battery replacement for a long time customer. Overall, it seems to be a
> better solution than others I've seen. However, we are having issues.
> First the two batteries are supposed to be linked together in a master/
> slave configuration, but they charge and discharge unevenly, and have
> SOC often 20% different.   Batteries are connected to a common buss with
> equal length 4/0 cables.
>
> I've been truly disappointed with Fortress customer support. First, I've
> called multiple times over the past two weeks, and never got through to
> anyone.  Their online support system is quite flawed as well, and I had
> a very difficult time even setting up a support ticket.  Now I can't
> even log in to view the support ticket, and I've only received one email
> back asking if I had properly paralleled the batteries.
>
> Has anyone else had a hard time with Fortress support?  Does anyone have
> a direct contact?  Customer is beyond pissed now, after almost 2 weeks
> hearing nothing, and having spent tens of thousands.
>
> Thanks;
>
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] "Qualified solar electric property"?

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

On the system size of batteries We have had several issues with resi and
80kWhr limitations, I dont know if this is an issue for you or not just
want to through it out there.
Jerry

On Fri, Oct 21, 2022 at 11:14 AM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi folks,
> I have a client that I'm doing a larger inverter and battery upgrade.
> We're are putting in 3Sol-Ark 15k inverters and 7 Fortress 18.5kwh units.
> The client is wanting manufacturer certification that the equipment is
> "qualified solar electric property". I don't know that I've ever run across
> this type of request before or that I've seen manufacturers supply such
> documentation. Is this something that anyone is familiar with? Did I miss
> something here?
> Thanks,
> Howie
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Integrating Lithium batteries with legacy inverters.

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches, William
I have installed quite a few memory saver kits in the old SW Inverters, ask
around if there are any kits still around. This is a viable solution to the
Li batteries. Here is something else, the BMS's should protect the
batteries anyway, in part of my testing we did this using cheap chargers,
overdriving the CC's good BMS's disconnected to protect the cells.
Bringing back fun memories of mayhem and destruction,

On Thu, Oct 20, 2022, 9:51 AM William Miller via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Friends:
>
>
>
> This is a follow up on the question I asked about anyone having actual
> experience integrating Simpliphi batteries with a Trace SW inverter
> system.
>
>
>
> I read the battery and integration manuals carefully and spoke with
> Simpliphi tech support.  The systems are absolutely compatible but only if
> the inverter and charge controllers are programmed correctly.
>
>
>
> Therein is the problem:  If the SW inverters lose DC power, the
> programming is erased and the inverters reset to factory defaults.  These
> default settings are not acceptable for safe operation of the Simpliphi
> batteries.
>
>
>
> If the client is capable of determining when the settings have been reset
> and can reprogram the inverters when needed, then maybe the design is
> acceptable.  In the case I am working on, the client does not have these
> capabilities.  It was decided to replace the dead batteries with the same
> AGM style batteries currently in use, not the Simpliphi.
>
>
>
> Thanks for your input.
>
>
>
> William Miller
>
>
>
> Miller Solar
>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>
> 805-438-5600
>
> www.millersolar.com
>
> CA Lic. 773985
>
>
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] heating pads for batteries

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches
It might sound cheap but I have incandescent lamps, also used reptile tank
heaters, watered heaters work too.
Funtimes

On Fri, Sep 30, 2022, 12:34 PM Chris Daum via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hello all you brilliant people:
>
>
>
> Does anyone have something new for lightly heating a battery bank in a
> cold climate?  Something reliable and reasonably efficient?  We’ve been
> selling LFP batteries for a while, but few to our northern customers who
> cannot keep them from freezing.  I can give advise about insulated
> battery boxes (and have one myself), but surely there must be something new
> out there.
>
>
>
> Here we see low temps of -20F below – sometimes -40…..
>
>
>
> I recently spoke with a fellow who offers heaters for gutters to prevent
> ice creep that can ruin your shingles or roof, but there must be something
> more adaptable than that.  Any suggestions?
>
>
>
> Chris Daum
>
> Oasis Montana Inc.
>
> 406-777-4309 or 4321
>
> 406-777-4309 fax
>
> www.oasismontana.com
>
>
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] sol ark reliability question

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Ray. Understand but loose connections can be any product and
troubleshooting loose intermittent issues are the hardest to correct
J
Funtimes

On Fri, Sep 30, 2022, 9:03 AM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> One thing I can say:  trouble shooting problems over the phone has its
> limitations.  I had a customer issue with a system we hadn't installed that
> was quite vexing.  Turned out to be a loose main DC connection to the
> inverter.  Bizarre behavior as the connection heated up and the resistance
> varied.
>
> Ray Walters
>
> On 9/30/2022 6:57 AM, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> Hi all and thanks for the input.
>
> I guess he’s just been unlucky with the problems ( firmware upgrade
> switching to 50hz) and possibly just some random bad hardware.
>
> In regards to your thoughts of a install issue, he has spent a lot of time
> with sol ark reviewing everything. Loads, wiring, they have been monitoring
> all the data, photos, video etc with everything coming up correctly
> installed, wired, and loads.
>
> this system is an upgrade for an older XW ( 6kw units) system which worked
> fine. The customer wanted better monitoring, more kw, expansion
> capabilities and newer tech.
>
> Weird
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 29, 2022, at 9:50 PM, pieter offgridenterprises.org via
> RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
>
> 
>
> We have dozens of Solark based installs and have had excellent results.
> All of our system have multiple parallel Solark inverters and have operated
> with out issues. On the rare occasion that we had commissioning questions
> our experience with Solark technical support has been outstanding, they
> have by far the best technical support in the industry. Although Solark
> helped design the system in question I suspect that there must be some
> finer points that were not shared with Solark, a load side wiring problem
> or perhaps an installation error that is causing the repeated failures. I
> suggest that your friend gets a fresh set of eyes on the system and look
> for that oversite we have all made and just can’t seem to see it on our own.
>
> Pieter Huebner
>
> Off Grid Enterprises
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches 
>  *On Behalf Of *Jerry Shafer
> via RE-wrenches
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 29, 2022 10:25 AM
> *To:* RE-wrenches 
> 
> *Cc:* Jerry Shafer  
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] sol ark reliability question
>
>
>
> Wrenches
>
> Solark issues, I have them living off grid, 3 phase and grid tied back up,
> both AC and DC coupled with only one intermittent comms issue, does not
> seem to have any more issues than OB and less than Schnieder, all are
> connected to Fortress 18.5's or Blue Planet BMS interface seems hardy,
>
> Would be good to know what issues he is having to accurately help
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 7:01 AM jay via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I’ve got a question about how many folks are having issues with sol-ark
> products?
>
> the reason i ask is that i’ve got a friend, a good competent installer (
> well versed in OB, Schneider, magnum)  who’s had continuing nightmares with
> them.
>
> he’s got 2 systems each on is a stacked pair of 12kw units, both offgrid.
>
> each system was designed by sol-ark, meaning the design was approved by
> them for the loads/solar etc.
>
> He’s been through 7 MCU swaps.
> He’s been through a field call required because the over the air firmware
> update caused the inverters to go into 50hz and for some reason that isn’t
> fixable via the web.
> He had an inverter that didn’t work correctly out of the box.  They
> charged him $2500 deposit for a replacement.
>
> Then they charged him $1500 to fix the inverter he sent back under
> warranty.  Thats right $1500 to fix a warranty which they agreed was a
> warranty issue.
> Hes not going to pay but this $1500 has been going on a while.
>
> The inverter they sent to replace the broken one had a older MCU firmware
> so wouldn’t stack and it took tech support way to long to figure that out
> then they had to send him a new MCU…...
>
> And the list goes on.
>
> But Im asking, is this poor guy just an anomaly or will anyone else chime
> in about issues?,
>
> Because at this point I have no desire to install one given his experiences
>
> Jay
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Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA alternative?

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Hilton
With all the inverters out there SMA has been far ahead of all the rest,
which inverter are you looking for, Fronius has been an issue, power one
has been problematic,
Jerry

On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 11:53 AM Hilton Dier via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Esteemed Wrenches,
>
> I am a long time fan and installer of SMA string inverters. I have a
> project right now which is a ground mounted array of 12 Trina 380s, so just
> over 4.5 kW.
>
> SMA inverters seem to be unavailable for the foreseeable future. What
> would be your recommendations for an alternative? I know it’s
> unfashionable, but I’m not a fan of micro inverters.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Hilton Dier III
> Renewable Energy Design
> Missisquoi River Hydro LLC
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Re: [RE-wrenches] sol ark reliability question

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches
Solark issues, I have them living off grid, 3 phase and grid tied back up,
both AC and DC coupled with only one intermittent comms issue, does not
seem to have any more issues than OB and less than Schnieder, all are
connected to Fortress 18.5's or Blue Planet BMS interface seems hardy,
Would be good to know what issues he is having to accurately help
Jerry

On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 7:01 AM jay via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I’ve got a question about how many folks are having issues with sol-ark
> products?
>
> the reason i ask is that i’ve got a friend, a good competent installer (
> well versed in OB, Schneider, magnum)  who’s had continuing nightmares with
> them.
>
> he’s got 2 systems each on is a stacked pair of 12kw units, both offgrid.
>
> each system was designed by sol-ark, meaning the design was approved by
> them for the loads/solar etc.
>
> He’s been through 7 MCU swaps.
> He’s been through a field call required because the over the air firmware
> update caused the inverters to go into 50hz and for some reason that isn’t
> fixable via the web.
> He had an inverter that didn’t work correctly out of the box.  They
> charged him $2500 deposit for a replacement.
>
> Then they charged him $1500 to fix the inverter he sent back under
> warranty.  Thats right $1500 to fix a warranty which they agreed was a
> warranty issue.
> Hes not going to pay but this $1500 has been going on a while.
>
> The inverter they sent to replace the broken one had a older MCU firmware
> so wouldn’t stack and it took tech support way to long to figure that out
> then they had to send him a new MCU…...
>
> And the list goes on.
>
> But Im asking, is this poor guy just an anomaly or will anyone else chime
> in about issues?,
>
> Because at this point I have no desire to install one given his experiences
>
> Jay
> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Large current battery combiners, UL Listing

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches
We have used the midnight box, both with and without OCP breakers, I dont
think they are large enough for what you want,  we have up to 80 kWhrs
connected going to 5 Radians.
Fun times

On Thu, Sep 8, 2022, 8:47 PM Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hello Wrenches,
>
> Is anyone aware of a high current, (~3000A DC rated, 48Vdc nominal)
> battery combiner panel that would allow for ~36-48 x 4/0 cables to connect?
>
> Seems like nothing will be close to UL listed on this.  How do you go
> about building a 60 kW off-grid system on the battery side of things?  Do I
> need to increase battery voltage design?
>
> I have gotten a custom busbar fabricated by Storm Power rated for about
> 2kA before, but I'd love to have a UL Listed solution for large battery
> combining.  Any suggestions are appreciated.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
>
>
>
> Mac Lewis
>
> *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark phase imbalances

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches
The 15 is not that similar to the 12, there is no OCP on most of the AC
inputs, this means you need to add that in, connection to the grid will
require a OPD maybe a traditional AC disco we used for years, you may need
a 200 amp with fuses as required by your meter max. Off grid you would not
need this but use of a genny would over 12 k or so you still do. Load out
of balance has gotten better with firmware upgrades. Over 2 battery inputs
will require a battery combiner, l have had no issues with solark on off
grid usage. Fortress battery links up well with the solarks.
Fun times

On Sat, Sep 10, 2022, 11:57 AM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Is there a white paper or a thorough explanation of the issue Sol-Ark had
> with large imbalances between phases. I am looking at a large residential
> off-grid system using potentially (2)15 kw Sol-Arks. What are the concerns
> specifically around unbalanced inductive loads.
> Also, I have not installed multiple Sol-Arks before. Any suggestions or
> issues it would be good to be aware of?
> Thanks,
> Howie
> Sun Catcher
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 3 phase off-grid UL listed

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Outback FX R can be built to be 3 phase and solark also works, for 30 k l
would look at solark, 3 12's or 15's.
Jerry

On Thu, Sep 8, 2022, 4:42 AM Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hello Wrenches,
>
> What inverter options are there for 3 phase, UL listed, off-grid inverter
> systems in the 30kW+ category?
> It's been quite a while since I dove into this...
> Thanks!
>
> --
>
>
>
> Mac Lewis
>
> *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Monitor for Li

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

This has been an issue with me, these batteries all have a basic BMS and
then why does Simplify not support their own with a readable BMS, Fortress
has a monitor, Blue planet has a BMS.
Jerry

On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 11:32 AM Matt Sherald via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hello Friends,
>
> I have an off-grid customer for whom I recently installed some SimpliPhi
> 3.8kW batteries.  This is an older system and it has a Trimetric battery
> monitor that the homeowners have used for years to keep an eye on their
> battery bank.
>
> The SimpliPhi batteries appear to be working fine at the site, but the
> homeowners feel uneasy b/c the Trimetric is reporting that they are
> finishing each charging cycle with an amp-hour deficit.  The voltage of the
> SimpliPhi batteries indicate that they are getting fully charged and are
> doing so fairly early in the AM (solar is the primary power source).
>
> I've spoken with SimpliPhi tech folks and their hunch is that the
> Trimetric is not reporting correctly.  They suggested that a Victron
> BMV-712 would be more accurate at tracking Percent Full etc...
>
> Do you folks think that the Victron is better at counting Ah in/out for Li
> batteries?  Or is the Trimetric adequate - do I maybe just need to adjust
> the settings?
>
> Anyway, the implication that the Victron BMV was better at monitoring Li
> batteries has me curious and I will enjoy hearing what the group thinks.
>
> Thanks for your time!
>
> -Matt
>
>
>
> --
> Matt Sherald
> PIMBY Energy, LLC
> 304-704-5943
>
> www.getpimby.blogspot.com
> www.getpimby.com
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] White Roof Temperature

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

I did some infrared tests years ago on metal vs comp,vs TPO this along with
color, attic temps. As an example regular comp roof (Dark color non
reflective) in clear sun, gable end vented rafters and plywood temps were
135 degrees and under the modules a foot away was 85 Degrees, so in short
it will not really matter what is under the modules as long as there is
ventilation AKA air gap between the array and the roof, the attic will be
much cooler. As I am sure you all know steel gets colder in the winter then
comp and hotter in the summer but when you shade the roof it basically does
not matter what you are using. I do suggest going into customers' attic
during the day with a IR camera or gun and you can see with good detail the
shade of the modules, even the conduite on the roof, plus the attic temp
being cooler under the modules. In 2017 we tested homes in Honolulu that
were getting a white silicone coating over an asphalt roof, you could see
in the attic where they were coating in real time and the results were
incredible.
Jerry
NABCEP PV Inspector

On Thu, Aug 25, 2022 at 10:39 AM Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hello Wrenches,
>
> A client installed a beautiful white standing seam roof. Suddenly their
> air conditioning loads dropped way down.
>
> We were planning to put an array on the roof, but she is concerned that
> the roof would become much hotter with dark colored solar modules over
> it.
>
> Is there any data on this issue?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Drake
>
> Drake Chamberlin
> Athens Electric LLC
> Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810
> CO Master Electrician’s License 4526
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] HomeGrid batteries

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

The cycle life sounds good the warranty cycle for off grid is far less than
blue planet and fortress. If you compare the fortress x 2, 18.5's with a
better warranty it comes out cheaper. I do see a display but l only see
volts. Pretty low surge, is there US warranty administration?  Good luck,

On Thu, Aug 18, 2022, 6:24 PM Kirpal via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi Yall!
> Anyone used HomeGrid batteries? We are just getting ready to pair them
> with some Outback and Sol Ark systems..  They have a compelling price, form
> and feature set.
> Hoping to hear of any issues before we jump in too deep with them..
> 100 thanks for any thoughts!
> Cheers.
> Kirpal
> Oregon Solarworks
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Converting Enphase systems to ac coupled multimode systems

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

You also might want to look at the solark 12 and 15

On Thu, Aug 18, 2022, 6:06 AM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I have several Enphase system customers looking to add battery storage.
> The Enphase system, which I got certified in, comes across to me as fairly
> complicated with several historical installation issues. The Outback Mojave
> looks pretty simple, and we have installed quite a few Radian, GVFX, etc
> systems and have had good experiences.  Would anyone care to share their
> experience with Mojave?  Thank you, Chris cwar...@entech-engineering.com
> --
>  Christopher Warfel
>  ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
> PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
> 401-466-8978
> 
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Bifacial Modules

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Drake
This is an interesting topic, Q, do bi-facials really work? A, it depends,
Solution, low profile on a roof may not so much its all about reflectivity
so higher off the ground(roof) the better. A parking lot canopy might see a
measurable improvement if the parking lot is a light reflective color, dark
not so much, single rows vs large arrays also better, further north from
the equator can help, snow on the ground will help, bottom line is, it is a
real hard number to qualify until you can compare your actual location, I
sell them and state very clearly what ever you get is a bonus that's all. I
know some many differ from this but telling someone they will get X% back
is going to spell disaster, it will be a hard sell to tell the property
owner that he must keep his panels and roof clean to gain any additional
results.
Fun Times

On Mon, Aug 8, 2022 at 1:27 PM Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Are bifacial modules good products? Do they really perform as
> advertised?
>
> We have a potential project where they would be used on a white roof.
> Would that be an ideal situation?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Drake
>
> Drake Chamberlin
> Athens Electric LLC
> Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810
> CO Master Electrician’s License 4526
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase String Breaker Heating Up

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Jason
Is the installation designed for 208 as you have greater limitations then
240, so now replace the buss and all the breakers, after that run currents
tests and see what you have. I had a 3 phase that the tin cam off the buss
and looked like a plazma cutter due to the exposed aluminum
Fun times

On Thu, Aug 4, 2022, 11:12 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I have a commercial 208 volt job where four of 11 fully populated strings
> of IQ7A had breakers that were tripped as reported by the client. They were
> able to reset two of them. They also reported that the two they were not
> able to reset we're very hot. The other two were warm.  By the time I got
> to the site, all four breakers had permanently failed.
>
> Once I got replacements, I was able to install them and they turned on
> without any faults. I gave it about 15 minutes and then put my infrared
> camera on it. To my surprise, the breaker immediately above two of the
> failed breakers and across from the other two failed breakers was clearly
> hot. I'm thinking this might have been the bad breaker all along causing
> the heat issue on the bus bar which made adjacent breakers fail. But this
> hot breaker did not fail.
>
> Does this seem like a plausible scenario, and if so, any ideas on what
> might have caused it? All of the breaker bolts were tight, but a couple
> were not torqued to spec. I just find it strange that one breaker that
> didn't fail would cause other adjacent breakers to heat up enough to fail.
>
> Flir image attached. This was after I replaced the four failed breakers.
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Florida Solar Design Group
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Re: [RE-wrenches] off-grid AC coupling feasibility

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

An all DC side charging is preferred and will have the simplest charging
system. Flex net DC shunts, easy to monitor.  Last l heard FM 100 were
pushed out till late in the year
Fun times

On Sat, Jul 30, 2022, 1:37 PM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Jerry-
> The pole mount does not exist for a few more weeks, so I have time to
> think about DC or AC coupling for it only. To clarify, the old roof 1.8 kw
> array is functional and has been charging the new blue ions through an old
> Outback pre-hub 60A controller(replacing it soon with a new FM60). So I do
> have existing dc-coupling already to get around dark start issues for the
> most part.
>
> Right now I'm starting to lean towards 100% DC coupling, hooking the new
> pole-mount array to an OB FM100 300vdc max 100A charge controller *IF* I
> can find one in time. At least then I can see everything on one dashboard
> (OpticsRE). Both Mate3s and hub 10.3 are already installed.
>
> One of the other things influencing my decision is the request from my
> customer to have it "grid-ready", which to them means the house is easier
> to sell when the time comes, if the buyer wants to bring in the grid power.
> I won't go into it, but it is a simpler solution (in terms of local
> hardware requirements) to AC-couple the new array with these utility rules
> in mind.
>
> So there is no fits-all solution to AC vs. DC coupling, as someone said.
>
> On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 3:58 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Its not clear to me if you will actually have a DC side coupled
>> connection in talking about the pole mount. If so then it does work but if
>> not then no, the big question is how would you restart the inverter to
>> restart the SE to start the charging process on the AC side, answer, you
>> can't in most cases. Example, SMA SI coupled with SMA 4K's, you have a dead
>> battery, you need to bring up the VDC to wake up the inverter to wake up
>> and count down the 4K's the trick here is to alter programming to instant
>> start the 4K upon getting VAC and hertz instead of the 300 sec count down.
>> Something else,  LFP does not relax and get any parasitic voltage back to
>> even start the SI so changing the timers may still not work. Best bet is to
>> have at least some DC side PV to charge a dead battery without the
>> inverters at all. I did ac coupling with Trace and SMA 20 plus years ago
>> and SMA said then it was not possible. How the world has changed. fun times!
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 30, 2022, 9:31 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> All,
>>> Anyone out there successfully AC-coupled inverters in an off-grid
>>> system? Advantages vs. pitfalls?
>>>
>>> In my case I'm thinking of its practicality with a Solaredge inverter
>>> AC-coupled to an OB Radian inverter. OB firmware makes this pretty easy
>>> now. So effectively the Radian is always operating in a grid-backup mode.
>>>
>>> I already upgraded the system to the Radian, and soon to add 5kw of
>>> pole-mounted PV(currently only 1.8kw of 22-year old PV on the roof). This
>>> system also just got 16kwh of Blue Ion LFP batteries.
>>>
>>> This is a last-minute thought I have instead of investing in additional
>>> DC charge controllers for the new array.
>>> Cost-wise there's not much of a difference between several high-quality
>>> charge controllers and a smaller SE inverter w/optimisers. Thanks.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh@vermont.solar *
>>>
>>> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC*
>>>
>>> *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!*
>>>
>>> *www.vermont.solar*
>>> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.vermontsolarnow.com=02%7C01%7C%7C9f0330d75a244870112408d685311841%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636842843233477645=0NjyuKeQbEK6245SNnk8X4XnP9Q%2B%2BqtvcALkdDghvk4%3D=0>
>>>
>>> dba Vermont Solar Engineering
>>>
>>> 802.863.1202
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Re: [RE-wrenches] off-grid AC coupling feasibility

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Its not clear to me if you will actually have a DC side coupled connection
in talking about the pole mount. If so then it does work but if not then
no, the big question is how would you restart the inverter to restart the
SE to start the charging process on the AC side, answer, you can't in most
cases. Example, SMA SI coupled with SMA 4K's, you have a dead battery, you
need to bring up the VDC to wake up the inverter to wake up and count down
the 4K's the trick here is to alter programming to instant start the 4K
upon getting VAC and hertz instead of the 300 sec count down. Something
else,  LFP does not relax and get any parasitic voltage back to even start
the SI so changing the timers may still not work. Best bet is to have at
least some DC side PV to charge a dead battery without the inverters at
all. I did ac coupling with Trace and SMA 20 plus years ago and SMA said
then it was not possible. How the world has changed. fun times!

On Sat, Jul 30, 2022, 9:31 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> All,
> Anyone out there successfully AC-coupled inverters in an off-grid system?
> Advantages vs. pitfalls?
>
> In my case I'm thinking of its practicality with a Solaredge inverter
> AC-coupled to an OB Radian inverter. OB firmware makes this pretty easy
> now. So effectively the Radian is always operating in a grid-backup mode.
>
> I already upgraded the system to the Radian, and soon to add 5kw of
> pole-mounted PV(currently only 1.8kw of 22-year old PV on the roof). This
> system also just got 16kwh of Blue Ion LFP batteries.
>
> This is a last-minute thought I have instead of investing in additional DC
> charge controllers for the new array.
> Cost-wise there's not much of a difference between several high-quality
> charge controllers and a smaller SE inverter w/optimisers. Thanks.
>
> --
>
> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh@vermont.solar *
>
> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC*
>
> *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!*
>
> *www.vermont.solar*
> 
>
> dba Vermont Solar Engineering
>
> 802.863.1202
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback FXR: Battery voltage exceeds settings

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Most AGM's don't like voltage that high and it swells the battery and
destroys its storage capability alot of the time
Jerry

On Fri, Jul 22, 2022, 7:50 PM Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> William,
>
> If the battery cases swelled, they saw over 52 degrees C temps for quite
> some time.
>
> While the swelling is usually only cosmetic, what's happening inside is
> the negative plates are starting to burn. This is where you will start to
> lose capacity and life cycle...  Extended temps of just 35C will half the
> overall battery life.
>
> One of the issues with the Outback gear is they only temp compensate at
> 5mv/Degree/cell. For all the AGM batteries I know of, you need to temp
> compensate at 4mv.   In hot temps, this should help, but cold temps could
> result in an overcharge.   Did you check the BTS and make sure it was
> operating properly?
>
> Another issue is that BTSs are often placed on the top or lug of the
> battery,   The top of the battery is about 5-10 deg C cooler than 1/2 way
> down the side of the battery, Which will also cause problems with proper
> temperature compensation, especially with warmer/colder extremes.
>
> Any kind of sulfation will cause an imbalance when you mix old and new
> batteries.   I'm not a fan of mixing any age AGM batteries as there is no
> way to tell what the SOC of the old bank vs. the new bank is.   They are
> not like flooded batteries; you can check SGs and dissipate heat
> much better than AGM or GEL batteries.   I discourage doing this if you
> can.   I probably wouldn't have mixed the old and new in the same strings.
> This way, you keep the higher resistance batteries in a single string,
>
> Lastly, bunching them together with no spacing between them is very bad.
> Batteries should be in a cool, dry environment.  Most battery companies
> want to see 1-3 inches in between each battery to allow for effective
> cooling. When they are all bunched up together, that is a lot of thermal
> mass that doesn't have much chance of cooling.   I have seen two parallel
> strings of AGMs take 24-36 hours with no charging or load to drop from 45c
> to 25C!
>
> Hope this helps!  Have a good weekend.
>
>
>
>
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> 
> Steve Higgins ⋅ Technical Services Manager
> t +1.902.597.4020  m +1.206.790.5840
> f +1.902.597.8447  e st...@surrette.com
> <#m_-3124562702126219588_SignatureSanitizer_SafeHtmlFilter_>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
>
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> On Fri, Jul 22, 2022 at 6:48 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Friends:
>>
>>
>>
>> I maintain a system with 16 AGM L-16 batteries.  Eight were installed in
>> September of 2021 and 8 were added in March of 2022.  This is 5 months
>> apart.  I have understood that when you install a string of batteries you
>> have one year in which to add another string before the first string ages
>> to the point it is contraindicated.  When I added the second 8 I put 4 new
>> batteries and 4 old batteries in each string.
>>
>>
>>
>> About a third of the batteries are discovered to bulging on top.  I
>> assume this means the batteries are damaged.  I checked the FXR and Outback
>> Extreme Charge controller settings and all were set to absorb at 58.8, and
>> float at 55.2, as the manufacturer recommends.
>>
>>
>>
>> I downloaded the charge controller log and got 129 days of data.  In that
>> log I see 68 days where the batteries exceeded 60 VDC. This is over half
>> the days.
>>
>>
>>
>> I wonder this:
>>
>>
>>
>> 1.   Why did the voltage go up above 58.8 on so many days even though it
>> was set at 58.8. (I set the EQ voltage at 58.8 just in case, but EQ was

Re: [RE-wrenches] LiPO with Trace SW5548

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Fortress Evault max, good form factor, simple
Jerry

On Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 3:05 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Any suggestions for LiPO batteries that play nice with the SW5548? This
> system also has an Outback CC for a pretty small PV array (rating TBD).
>
> Based on some pics I received from the client, the current lead acid
> battery appears to be around 40kWh and was slightly undersized, so I'd be
> looking for LiPO around 30kWh.
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Florida Solar Design Group
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Leakage of current

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Is there any other power sources on this building, does the leak go away at
night, what is the voltage of this tingle?
Fun times!

On Sun, Jul 10, 2022, 2:10 PM Ron Young via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I have a customer that has self installed an array on a metal roof using
> APS Rapid shutdown devices. The roof rack is standard rails and L-feet. It
> is a high voltage system that will be connected to a Sol-Ark but it has yet
> to be connected, just MC cables from each set of 8 panels (3 altogether)
> run back to the location where the Sol-Ark will be installed. He raised a
> concern about what he described as leakage of current to the metal roof:
>
> "I did experience noticeable “leakage” of current to our roof prior to
> installation of the ground cable...Working around the metal roof one could
> definitely feel the tingle of the current, and it persisted until I had the
> ground cable connected.”
>
> My only guess is that possibly the APS devices are leaking at connection
> point but not sure how to check or he had an unprotected end of the MC
> cable touching the roof but that wouldn’t leak with the APS shutoff
> installed as it would need a signal from the transmitter that is not yet
> installed in the Sol-Ark. The panels are LG375’s.
>
> Ron
> earthRight Solar - Solareagle.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Micro inverter module direct to electric hot water heater

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

We used sun bandit years ago and it was a regular accurance to go out
trouble shoot then go back with the part. No more of that! Just get an
electric Rheem marathon and put it on a off peak timer, less parts from
companies that don't respond.

Jerry

On Mon, Jul 4, 2022, 6:48 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi John,
>
> Check out Sun Bandit's offering:  https://sunbandit.us/solutions/
>
>
> -Chris
>
> On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 9:48 PM John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Glen, You are correct. It is an electric tank water heater according to
>> Home Depot.
>>
>> Thanks for Cybo.
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 28, 2022 at 7:23 PM Glenn Burt  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi John,
>>>
>>> Cybo inverters.
>>>
>>> You hit a pet peeve in your post and I must comment as we really need to
>>> be leaders. We have water heaters and hot water tanks... Why would we have
>>> a 'hot water heater'?
>>>
>>> -Glenn
>>> Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.
>>>
>>> -- Original message--
>>> *From: *John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches
>>> *Date: *Tue, Jun 28, 2022 6:04 PM
>>> *To: *RE-wrenches;
>>> *Cc: *John Blittersdorf;
>>> *Subject:*[RE-wrenches] Micro inverter module direct to electric hot
>>> water heater
>>>
>>> Awhile back there was a thread about a micro inverter that could be used
>>> to connect directly to an electric hot water heater.  Can someone steer me
>>> to that thread or the inverter manufacturer?
>>>
>>> John Blittersdorf
>>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] wire management on Qcell AC module

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Dave
just loop the wires and leave them suspended and if they are over the rail
even better you will never see them
Jerry

On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 6:33 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Jerry,
> Sorry for any confusion there. With that first photo with the leads taped,
> I was showing how the module came from the factory. The other two photos of
> the backsheet show how far you can pull the leads when the tape is off.
> With the setup I explained above, that was with the tape removed from the
> modules.
> Cheers,
> Dave
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 7:00 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> Dave
>> Nothing should be attached to the back sheet as it can be an issue down
>> the road, I might want to look at looping the cords to let them
>> statically remain in location without the tape, the loop will prevent
>> drooping and if properly located rest on the rail.
>> Jerry
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 29, 2022 at 1:07 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> I realize it has been a while, but I've been meaning to send out an
>>> update. With these modules in particular, one lead was long enough to get a
>>> clip on the side frame. We found that if we put the upper rail as low as
>>> possible allowed by the module (about 19.75" from the top) then it roughly
>>> split the distance from the junction box to the microinverter. It seems
>>> that even over time, there is not enough slack with the rail there for the
>>> wire to ever reach the roof. It is possible that it will eventually sag
>>> such that the wire is visible under the rails, but at least for now, you
>>> cannot see any wires under the array.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 1:23 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Except if it is UL listed and tested as part of the assembly. Haha. I
>>>> seriously don't that happened, but technically...
>>>>
>>>> Bottom line, a manufacturer should supply guidance on this.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jun 2, 2022, 1:02 PM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches <
>>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Tape is not approved as a wire retaining device as far as I can find
>>>>> in the NEC :-]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dana Orzel -  E - d...@solarwork.com -  C - 208.721.7003
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* RE-wrenches  *On
>>>>> Behalf Of *Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches
>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 2, 2022 9:40 AM
>>>>> *To:* RE-wrenches 
>>>>> *Cc:* Jerry Shafer 
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] wire management on Qcell AC module
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regarding the tape on the back sheet
>>>>>
>>>>> I have seen Novis installers keep the tape to secure the modules and I
>>>>> have also seen it with the tape stll attached to the wires laying on the
>>>>> roof so in my humble opinion the tape is for shipping only and is not to 
>>>>> be
>>>>> used as a wire management system.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jerry
>>>>>
>>>>> NABCEP PV Inspector
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 6:37 AM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches <
>>>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I just got some of the Qcell 360w AC modules that have the Enphase
>>>>> microinverter factory applied to the back. The module is the half cut cell
>>>>> type with the DC leads coming from either side of the middle of the 
>>>>> module.
>>>>> The modules come with the wires taped to the back of the module. If you
>>>>> remove that tape, there appears to be almost no way to properly manage
>>>>> those wires. Is that tape meant to just keep the wire on the back of the
>>>>> module forever? Would that even last more than a year? I am curious what
>>>>> other people have done for these i

Re: [RE-wrenches] wire management on Qcell AC module

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Dave
Nothing should be attached to the back sheet as it can be an issue down the
road, I might want to look at looping the cords to let them
statically remain in location without the tape, the loop will prevent
drooping and if properly located rest on the rail.
Jerry

On Wed, Jun 29, 2022 at 1:07 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi all,
> I realize it has been a while, but I've been meaning to send out an
> update. With these modules in particular, one lead was long enough to get a
> clip on the side frame. We found that if we put the upper rail as low as
> possible allowed by the module (about 19.75" from the top) then it roughly
> split the distance from the junction box to the microinverter. It seems
> that even over time, there is not enough slack with the rail there for the
> wire to ever reach the roof. It is possible that it will eventually sag
> such that the wire is visible under the rails, but at least for now, you
> cannot see any wires under the array.
>
> Cheers,
> Dave
>
> On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 1:23 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Except if it is UL listed and tested as part of the assembly. Haha. I
>> seriously don't that happened, but technically...
>>
>> Bottom line, a manufacturer should supply guidance on this.
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 2, 2022, 1:02 PM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Tape is not approved as a wire retaining device as far as I can find in
>>> the NEC :-]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dana Orzel -  E - d...@solarwork.com -  C - 208.721.7003
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* RE-wrenches  *On
>>> Behalf Of *Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 2, 2022 9:40 AM
>>> *To:* RE-wrenches 
>>> *Cc:* Jerry Shafer 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] wire management on Qcell AC module
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regarding the tape on the back sheet
>>>
>>> I have seen Novis installers keep the tape to secure the modules and I
>>> have also seen it with the tape stll attached to the wires laying on the
>>> roof so in my humble opinion the tape is for shipping only and is not to be
>>> used as a wire management system.
>>>
>>> Jerry
>>>
>>> NABCEP PV Inspector
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 6:37 AM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches <
>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I just got some of the Qcell 360w AC modules that have the Enphase
>>> microinverter factory applied to the back. The module is the half cut cell
>>> type with the DC leads coming from either side of the middle of the module.
>>> The modules come with the wires taped to the back of the module. If you
>>> remove that tape, there appears to be almost no way to properly manage
>>> those wires. Is that tape meant to just keep the wire on the back of the
>>> module forever? Would that even last more than a year? I am curious what
>>> other people have done for these if they have used them or something
>>> similar. Maybe if you get the rail in the right spot, the wires will just
>>> sit on the rail...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I realize that we have had a thread on wire management with half cut
>>> cell modules before, but this is a little different, as I am specifically
>>> asking about that tape and if anyone knows if it holds up over time.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> [image: Logo] <https://www.sungineersolar.com/>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Dave Tedeyan, P.E.Owner | Sungineer Solar*
>>>
>>> *p: *he | him | his
>>> *a: *1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
>>> *w:* www.sungineersolar.com <http://www.sungineersolar.com/>
>>> *c:* (607) 288-2898
>>>
>>> ___
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>>>
>>> There are two list archives for 

Re: [RE-wrenches] wireless water tank level monitor

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Jay
https://www.fuelminder.biz/waterminder%20collection/gallagher.html
these guys have a variety of monitors, I am getting one myself
Jerry

On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 2:31 PM William Bryce via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi Jay
>
> Don’t think anyone else chimed in on this so I will.
>
> Have use 2 different units.
>
> One is all China and works pretty good.  But it’s using China hardware and
> China servers.
>
> Search on eBay for Konlen Smart Controller  I have one and it’s been great.
>
> For a NA option you have Paremtech PTLevel WiFI. This it the best if you
> just need reliable monitoring. Expensive but I have install 2 of them with
> No issues.
>
> www.paremtech.com
>
> Hope this helps
>
> On Thu, Jun 16, 2022 at 5:50 PM jay via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Does anyone have recommendations  for a wireless water tank level monitor
>>
>> Looking for multiple levels, not just empty.
>> It is strictly for monitoring, not control
>>
>> Could be cell service or internet ( which would be connected via wireless
>> radio) and its offgrid
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> jay
>> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Flex Power ONE FXR expansion

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Jeremy
I have and used a second PS1 and added a transformer to connect the two,
worked fine was just parts that all needed to connected
Jerry

On Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 4:08 PM Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hello
> Does anyone have a solution for adding a second inverter to an single flex
> power pre wired panel, to achieve 120/240V ?
> I know it wouldn’t be on the same panel, but looking for an option here.
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Jeremy Rodriguez
> Solar Installation / Design Expert
> All Solar, Inc.
> 1453 M St
> Penrose Colorado 81240
>
> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Li Replacements for Lead-acid Bank

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Matt
Look at the fortress Evault Max 18.5  BMS, display, battery enclosure all
together and they work well better than the simplify parts and pieces,
Jerry


On Fri, Jun 10, 2022 at 4:08 AM Matt Sherald via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hello Wrenches,
>
> I've got customers with an ailing battery bank and I'm working to sketch
> out a replacement plan.  I'd like to offer them a Li option, but they have
> a suite of older electronics and I'm writing to ask the list if anyone
> feels like they've settled on a Li brand that works well with pre-Li
> electronics.  Glad for any suggestions.  Thanks in advance!
>
> The bank size is currently 1,110Ah/48V.  The following electronics are
> installed:
> 2008 OB VFX
> 2012 OB VFX
> 2008 OB MX60
> 2012 MS Classic X2
>
> 2008 OB Mate
> 2010 Trimetric
>
> -Matt
>
> --
> Matt Sherald
> PIMBY Energy, LLC
> 304-704-5943
>
> www.getpimby.blogspot.com
> www.getpimby.com
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] The Questions of product reliability

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Dana and Wrenches
I also have been around for quite awhile and Dana is spot on, we have been
lied too to so many times, some from distributors, some manufactures. We
still are in the wild west of renewables, Chinese module manufacturers with
no clear contact information, inverter manufacturers that say they will
alway be compatible with the new product lines up till they are not. We
need to be the common sense for our customers, explain some design issues
that they may want to avoid and give them solutions.
Battery technology is what we will all have to understand and see through
the mist for the facts not the hype. I will say that we are all out there
to do good be good and help our customers make the best decision so when it
sounds like an African Prince wants to make you a deal you all know what to
do, we are in the same boat with solar separate the good from the bad and
keep up the good fight.
Jerry
NABCEP PV Inspector

On Fri, Jun 3, 2022 at 10:04 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Having been in the solar biz since 1988 I can, but will not make a list of
> products that have come & gone;  products that have been Guinea pigged on
> all of us, promises that have been made & not kept, equipment that has
> caught fire & individuals that have made unrealistic promises to clients
> that have really damaged the reputations of the balance of those of us who
> are trying to build a reliable & reputable reputations in a still growing
> now teen aged industry.
>
>
>
> That said I have held back on installing new product introductions & still
> do on say micro inverters: they get really hot & really cold & the long
> term reliability of a product that suffers that will suffer in the long
> run. I do not know of many 5-8 year old micro inverter systems that have
> not had at least some inverter components replaced. I remember the first
> micro inverter training class that I attended & the presenter kept using
> the term mean time to failure, & I questioned this term. The response was
> that the components used in similar situations should allow for a similar
> life span. I had this discussion today with a friend who has a unobstructed
> south facing roof with no shading, with a micro inverter system that is
> looking at expanding & wanted more micro inverters because he felt the
> information on what every inverter/module pair was doing was important. I
> asked him but what fails? The answer was: Not the Module but the inverter
> that was the weak link. So why use a micro invert in his application?
>
>
>
> String inverters? Less so but I have seen failure rashes of at least 1
> Manu that have surfaced I have had to address multiple similar sized units
> replacement, at least I was standing on the ground to repair.
>
>
>
> New products for offgrid & grid tie continue to come online regularly.
> Today at least UL/ETL type testing awards some level of reliability & takes
> some of the concern out for us as installers.
>
>
>
> At this point you are wondering where the heck is I am going with this
> rant?
>
>
>
>- How many companies have really followed thru with their promises?
>- How many companies products really last as promised?
>- How many companies have available, accurate, & prompt/timely
>customer tech service?
>- How many companies get the replacement components out the door
>promptly?
>
>
>
> I really try to support manufacturers, wholesalers, & companies that meet
> these criteria.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dana Orzel -  E - d...@solarwork.com -  C - 208.721.7003
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches  *On
> Behalf Of *Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches
> *Sent:* Friday, June 3, 2022 9:41 AM
> *To:* RE-wrenches 
> *Cc:* Jerry Shafer 
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Edge - appears generator integration
> is not on any near-term path to completion
>
>
>
> When it comes to what manufacturers will have in the future,
> guaranteeing or stating that a product will have a feature in the future is
> mostly doomed to failure, enphase, LG Chem, Ford and so many
> obsolete inverter manufacturers that have come and gone. You might as well
> be selling snake oil, you are backing yourself into a corner that has no
> good way out, just dont sell something that is not there yet. You can use
> this in your favor by telling your customer at the kitchen table that
> anyone that is selling you on a gen set integration better be able to back
> it up with facts and if they can't, Well, now the customer will have more
> belief in you as a result.
>
> SE has some grand plans but until they are in place and actually working
> do yourself a favor and don't sell w

Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Edge - appears generator integration is not on any near-term path to completion

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

When it comes to what manufacturers will have in the future,
guaranteeing or stating that a product will have a feature in the future is
mostly doomed to failure, enphase, LG Chem, Ford and so many
obsolete inverter manufacturers that have come and gone. You might as well
be selling snake oil, you are backing yourself into a corner that has no
good way out, just dont sell something that is not there yet. You can use
this in your favor by telling your customer at the kitchen table that
anyone that is selling you on a gen set integration better be able to back
it up with facts and if they can't, Well, now the customer will have more
belief in you as a result.
SE has some grand plans but until they are in place and actually working do
yourself a favor and don't sell what is not available yet. You need to
remember that you are a contractor or acting in behalf of a contractor and
stating something that is not fact for being fact is a lie and that can get
the contractor in hot water.
Jerry
NABCEP PV Inspector

On Fri, Jun 3, 2022 at 6:24 AM Scot Arey via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Wrenches,
>
>
>
> This more of a public service announcement. Many of us have installed
> Energy Hub inverters with Backup Interface Units (BIU). Based on SolarEdge
> marketing materiel, we have told customers that generator integration was
> on the way.
>
>
>
> Well, 4th quarter 2021 came and went and still no path forward. I had
> asked one of the SolarEdge Directors of Sales if SolarEdge could release a
> formal new release or updated tech note that installers could pass to
> customers who want to know, “when can I integrate the generator like you
> told me we could?”
>
>
>
> SolarEdge won’t make any such announcement and the best I could get form
> the Director was to perhaps “get it removed from all marketing material.”
>
> “Generator – we don’t have an update.  This is significantly harder than
> it might seem.  The last thing we can do is have generators or inverters
> failing.  It is not hard to get the generator to turn on/off.  It is
> everything else that a homeowner is going to expect the systems to do
> together.  The ask has been sent up the chain of command to get it removed
> from all marketing materials.”
>
>
>
> But that still leaves installers holding the bag, as it was us at kitchen
> tables saying, “yes – this capability is coming.” Without SolarEdge
> providing a formal release, it has in essence shifted its ‘loss of
> goodwill’ to us.
>
> I’m pretty fired up about it as it is one of many decisions where
> SolarEdge shifts costs back to the installers, to their benefit (consider
> the long queue for tech support and their response, “ok you have to be
> onsite for us to do something before we RMA it.” Which would be fine if we
> were not forced to wait hour-plus for tech support.
>
>
>
> Would enjoy hearing what you are telling customers.
>
>
>
> Scot Arey
>
> Solar CenTex
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