Re: [RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?

[Jerry Shafer]

Ray
 look at the Cummins gen-sets have had no issues and non have blown up, no
voltage issues.
Jerry

On Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 12:41 PM Ray  wrote:

> Some of the issues have been Generac not providing a simple wiring
> schematic, nor simply labeling the 2 start wires.  2nd is requiring either
> internet connection or a call in to get the start code.  Both have been
> very problematic in remote locations with no phone service.  Totally
> unnecessary.  We don't need a Generac tech just to connect wires, I'm the
> licensed electrician.  Last time I called Generac, (control error not
> listed in the manual) they insisted I needed to call in a service tech, and
> offered zero trouble shooting.  I fixed the problem by pulling the fuse and
> resetting the controller.  3rd, service requires a long expensive trip by
> the service tech, who then diagnoses the problem, has to order the parts
> and return weeks later. This means every issue takes 2 round trips to
> resolve.  If its a bigger issue, it requires a truck lift to haul the 500
> lb unit in to the shop.  We're hearing $500 just to get the generator to
> the shop, then another $500 to reinstall it after.
>
> Failures have included several catastrophic engine failures, blowing oil
> every where, some of these have been in the first few hundred hours. Lots
> of control issues, one recently had voltage that varied from 90 to 130, 45
> to 70 Hz, and the inverter wouldn't even connect to it.
>
> I quit selling generators a long time ago, because I didn't want the
> service liability.  I'm not a mechanic, and I don't want to be.  I do
> however, need a generator I can recommend in good faith.  The Ecogen has
> made us look pretty bad.  Glad I didn't sell them, but then I've seen some
> large water cooled unit that worked well.
>
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
>
> On 2/28/20 5:14 AM, Chris Mason wrote:
>
> Ray,
> I'm a Generac dealer. Why are you having support problems? Generac has a
> large dealer network, if the unit is under warranty you should have no
> problem getting it fixed. Did you buy through a dealer and have them
> install it? Why are the services expensive?
>
> What failures are you seeing?
>
> There is a hole in the market for products in this application. Virtually
> no-one makes an affordable ~10KW diesel enclosed 2 wire start 1,800 rpm
> reliable diesel generator. I once ordered, on spec, a 9KW Perkins engine
> liquid cooled enclosed diesel from a factory in China I deal with. I sold
> it to a customer that ran it 18 hours a day on 100% load, to power his
> restaurant refrigeration outside service hours. It lasted him years, it
> must have thousands of hours on it.
> I think the big problem in the US is getting permits for diesel generators.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 6:25 PM Ray  wrote:
>
>> I know we have covered this before, but I just continue to be
>> disappointed with the Generac Ecogen.  Very high failure rate, and
>> support is poor.  Service requires expensive on site service. Also the
>> no load AC draw and programming setup is just not off grid ready at
>> all.  I'm still not seeing any other great choices, though.  Here's some
>> other possibilities:
>>
>> 1) Quality portable, like the Honda EU 7000i or Northstar with Honda
>> motor.  Not the best choice especially for autostart, no propane, but at
>> least they can take it in to the shop if it goes down.
>>
>> 2) Kubota (or MQ) diesel. expensive, and possible cold weather start
>> issues?
>>
>> 3) 20+ kW water cooled, 1800 rpm propane model.  Overkill, expensive,
>> but probably will last a really long time.
>>
>> 4) Similar Home standby unit, but Kohler brand.  Kohler used to be
>> great, but now a days I'm not so sure.
>>
>> I just can't keep recommending a generator I know has been giving other
>> customers trouble.  Any new ideas on this age old problem?
>>
>> --
>> Ray Walters
>> Remote Solar
>> 303 505-8760
>>
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
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>>
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>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>>
>
> --
> Chris Mason
> Solar systems designer
> Generac Generators Industrial technician
>
> Comet Systems Ltd DBA Comet Solar
> Anguilla Cell  264.235.5670
> WhatsApp 264.235.5670
> Skype: netconcepts
> www.cometsolar.com 
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & 
> settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive: 
> http://www.mail-archi

Re: [RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?

[Michael Morningstar]

That Isuzu-Stamford-Deap Sea  mating has been time tested and proven by other 
manufactures. Growers run them nearly continuously for years and years. Perfect 
for off-grid.

> On Mar 4, 2020, at 4:07 PM, Matthew Sherald  wrote:
> 
> I’ve enjoyed following this thread. Just today a customer with a Generac 
> wrote to update me on a long anticipated control board replacement that ended 
> with the discovery of a shot bearing and the need for more work/downtime. 
> 
> I have another customer (whom I inherited) who has had a stationary Winco 
> brand generator for ten years or more.  His experience with the Winco has 
> been a good one and I see that the company has some 8 and 12k units offered 
> for prime power.  
> I’d welcome any opinions on the reliability/suitability of the Winco brand 
> for off-grid homeowners. My initial impression has been positive, but my 
> experience with them is limited. 
> 
> -Matt
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 3, 2020, at 4:21 PM, Chris Mason  wrote:
>> 
>> Ray,
>> Let me try to address some of those issues for you.
>> 1) You can get the activation code before you take it to site, you just need 
>> the serial number. Generac has a good warranty policy but they need to know 
>> where the generator is and when it is installed to be able to provide that.
>> 2) An electrician can connect the wires but you would not believe the 
>> installations we have seen, done by licensed electricians. We have a dealer 
>> forum where installers post pictures of installations they find, and the 
>> mistakes are criminal and dangerous. I once found a propane 20KW generator 
>> running side a shipping container, doors closed.
>> 3) Generac does not do direct support for generators, they require customers 
>> call a dealer. The dealer can then call Generac, and often does. I can't 
>> even call them if my certification expires.
>> 4) If the generator is under warranty, you may not pay anything, depending 
>> on the coverage. Generac is offering up to ten year warranties. But once it 
>> is out of warranty, you will have to pay. Dealers don't work for free. The 
>> average electrician won't be able to diagnose problems reliably on these 
>> generators.
>> The residential air cooled generators are very reliable and rarely have 
>> problems if well maintained. Techs should be traveling with common parts, I 
>> bring a controller and a few other parts so I can solve the problem in one 
>> go.
>> Blown engines are rare, but they do happen. Generally in the first few 
>> hours, so under full warranty and replacement is generally done at Generac's 
>> expense.
>> If you do have issues, contact me and I will try to help you.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 4:41 PM Ray  wrote:
>>> Some of the issues have been Generac not providing a simple wiring 
>>> schematic, nor simply labeling the 2 start wires.  2nd is requiring either 
>>> internet connection or a call in to get the start code.  Both have been 
>>> very problematic in remote locations with no phone service.  Totally 
>>> unnecessary.  We don't need a Generac tech just to connect wires, I'm the 
>>> licensed electrician.  Last time I called Generac, (control error not 
>>> listed in the manual) they insisted I needed to call in a service tech, and 
>>> offered zero trouble shooting.  I fixed the problem by pulling the fuse and 
>>> resetting the controller.  3rd, service requires a long expensive trip by 
>>> the service tech, who then diagnoses the problem, has to order the parts 
>>> and return weeks later. This means every issue takes 2 round trips to 
>>> resolve.  If its a bigger issue, it requires a truck lift to haul the 500 
>>> lb unit in to the shop.  We're hearing $500 just to get the generator to 
>>> the shop, then another $500 to reinstall it after.  
>>> 
>>> Failures have included several catastrophic engine failures, blowing oil 
>>> every where, some of these have been in the first few hundred hours. Lots 
>>> of control issues, one recently had voltage that varied from 90 to 130, 45 
>>> to 70 Hz, and the inverter wouldn't even connect to it.
>>> 
>>> I quit selling generators a long time ago, because I didn't want the 
>>> service liability.  I'm not a mechanic, and I don't want to be.  I do 
>>> however, need a generator I can recommend in good faith.  The Ecogen has 
>>> made us look pretty bad.  Glad I didn't sell them, but then I've seen some 
>>> large water cooled unit that worked well.   
>>> 
>>> Ray Walters
>>> Remote Solar
>>> 303 505-8760
 On 2/28/20 5:14 AM, Chris Mason wrote:
 Ray,
 I'm a Generac dealer. Why are you having support problems? Generac has a 
 large dealer network, if the unit is under warranty you should have no 
 problem getting it fixed. Did you buy through a dealer and have them 
 install it? Why are the services expensive?
 
 What failures are you seeing?
 
 There is a hole in the market for products in this applica

Re: [RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?

[Matthew Sherald]

I’ve enjoyed following this thread. Just today a customer with a Generac wrote 
to update me on a long anticipated control board replacement that ended with 
the discovery of a shot bearing and the need for more work/downtime. 

I have another customer (whom I inherited) who has had a stationary Winco brand 
generator for ten years or more.  His experience with the Winco has been a good 
one and I see that the company has some 8 and 12k units offered for prime 
power.  
I’d welcome any opinions on the reliability/suitability of the Winco brand for 
off-grid homeowners. My initial impression has been positive, but my experience 
with them is limited. 

-Matt

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 3, 2020, at 4:21 PM, Chris Mason  wrote:
> 
> Ray,
> Let me try to address some of those issues for you.
> 1) You can get the activation code before you take it to site, you just need 
> the serial number. Generac has a good warranty policy but they need to know 
> where the generator is and when it is installed to be able to provide that.
> 2) An electrician can connect the wires but you would not believe the 
> installations we have seen, done by licensed electricians. We have a dealer 
> forum where installers post pictures of installations they find, and the 
> mistakes are criminal and dangerous. I once found a propane 20KW generator 
> running side a shipping container, doors closed.
> 3) Generac does not do direct support for generators, they require customers 
> call a dealer. The dealer can then call Generac, and often does. I can't even 
> call them if my certification expires.
> 4) If the generator is under warranty, you may not pay anything, depending on 
> the coverage. Generac is offering up to ten year warranties. But once it is 
> out of warranty, you will have to pay. Dealers don't work for free. The 
> average electrician won't be able to diagnose problems reliably on these 
> generators.
> The residential air cooled generators are very reliable and rarely have 
> problems if well maintained. Techs should be traveling with common parts, I 
> bring a controller and a few other parts so I can solve the problem in one go.
> Blown engines are rare, but they do happen. Generally in the first few hours, 
> so under full warranty and replacement is generally done at Generac's expense.
> If you do have issues, contact me and I will try to help you.
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 4:41 PM Ray  wrote:
>> Some of the issues have been Generac not providing a simple wiring 
>> schematic, nor simply labeling the 2 start wires.  2nd is requiring either 
>> internet connection or a call in to get the start code.  Both have been very 
>> problematic in remote locations with no phone service.  Totally unnecessary. 
>>  We don't need a Generac tech just to connect wires, I'm the licensed 
>> electrician.  Last time I called Generac, (control error not listed in the 
>> manual) they insisted I needed to call in a service tech, and offered zero 
>> trouble shooting.  I fixed the problem by pulling the fuse and resetting the 
>> controller.  3rd, service requires a long expensive trip by the service 
>> tech, who then diagnoses the problem, has to order the parts and return 
>> weeks later. This means every issue takes 2 round trips to resolve.  If its 
>> a bigger issue, it requires a truck lift to haul the 500 lb unit in to the 
>> shop.  We're hearing $500 just to get the generator to the shop, then 
>> another $500 to reinstall it after.  
>> 
>> Failures have included several catastrophic engine failures, blowing oil 
>> every where, some of these have been in the first few hundred hours. Lots of 
>> control issues, one recently had voltage that varied from 90 to 130, 45 to 
>> 70 Hz, and the inverter wouldn't even connect to it.
>> 
>> I quit selling generators a long time ago, because I didn't want the service 
>> liability.  I'm not a mechanic, and I don't want to be.  I do however, need 
>> a generator I can recommend in good faith.  The Ecogen has made us look 
>> pretty bad.  Glad I didn't sell them, but then I've seen some large water 
>> cooled unit that worked well.   
>> 
>> Ray Walters
>> Remote Solar
>> 303 505-8760
>>> On 2/28/20 5:14 AM, Chris Mason wrote:
>>> Ray,
>>> I'm a Generac dealer. Why are you having support problems? Generac has a 
>>> large dealer network, if the unit is under warranty you should have no 
>>> problem getting it fixed. Did you buy through a dealer and have them 
>>> install it? Why are the services expensive?
>>> 
>>> What failures are you seeing?
>>> 
>>> There is a hole in the market for products in this application. Virtually 
>>> no-one makes an affordable ~10KW diesel enclosed 2 wire start 1,800 rpm 
>>> reliable diesel generator. I once ordered, on spec, a 9KW Perkins engine 
>>> liquid cooled enclosed diesel from a factory in China I deal with. I sold 
>>> it to a customer that ran it 18 hours a day on 100% load, to power his 
>>> restaurant refrige

Re: [RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?

[Jim Duncan]

One other suggestion is, whatever internal combustion device you have, 
switch at first oil change to 100% full synthetic engine lube and never 
go back. Guaranteed 50% longer between changes and far better 
performance. My 2 ¢...


*Jim Duncan Solar Acres Farm 817.917.0527 solarguy2...@gmail.com*

On 2/27/2020 9:24 PM, Maverick Brown wrote:

Ray

Your list mirrors mine.

Never. Ever. Ever. Buy or believe you’ll get support of any kind from Generac. 
I fell for the lure of the ECO GEN and it ate itself one night while helping 
our off grid home get through a hot cloudy summer day.

For my off grid experience since 2005, I would vote for:

1. For Big Systems, I’d vote for a Cummins 1800 water cooled unit. 20kw is 
great genny for a double stack or more of Radians. They work. Period. After a 
few tries, a couple customers agreed to water cooled and life is grand.

Kohler RES-14 and RES-20 air-cooled units have also been great. For those 
customers there are big battery banks and the generator is less needed.

2. Kubota GL11000 or GL7000. I have a few in my customer group. I have the 
GL6000 at my shop. It can be made auto start. Diesel is man-potable. They 
always start and run and they are water cooled even though they are 3600 rpms, 
they are quiet.

3. Honda inverter generators. I have several customers with different wattages. 
I love these. Won’t do much good to put a EU2000i on a 2400Ah bank, but the 
EU7000i can be auto started in some climates with a 3-wire controller like a 
XW-AGS. Keep the oil changed.

Also. The key here is use vs capacity for use. If you design a system that 
needs the generator to run every. single. day., you might want to spec a 
generator that costs more than the solar array. Or have enough battery for a 8x 
load and solar for 2x or more.

The old adage you get what you pay for is still valid in the off grid world.

Thank you,

Maverick



On Feb 27, 2020, at 4:25 PM, Ray  wrote:

I know we have covered this before, but I just continue to be disappointed 
with the Generac Ecogen.  Very high failure rate, and support is poor.  Service 
requires expensive on site service. Also the no load AC draw and programming 
setup is just not off grid ready at all.  I'm still not seeing any other great 
choices, though.  Here's some other possibilities:

1) Quality portable, like the Honda EU 7000i or Northstar with Honda motor.  
Not the best choice especially for autostart, no propane, but at least they can 
take it in to the shop if it goes down.

2) Kubota (or MQ) diesel. expensive, and possible cold weather start issues?

3) 20+ kW water cooled, 1800 rpm propane model.  Overkill, expensive, but 
probably will last a really long time.

4) Similar Home standby unit, but Kohler brand.  Kohler used to be great, but 
now a days I'm not so sure.

I just can't keep recommending a generator I know has been giving other 
customers trouble.  Any new ideas on this age old problem?

--
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?

[Chris Mason]

Ray,
Let me try to address some of those issues for you.
1) You can get the activation code before you take it to site, you just
need the serial number. Generac has a good warranty policy but they need to
know where the generator is and when it is installed to be able to provide
that.
2) An electrician can connect the wires but you would not believe the
installations we have seen, done by licensed electricians. We have a dealer
forum where installers post pictures of installations they find, and the
mistakes are criminal and dangerous. I once found a propane 20KW generator
running side a shipping container, doors closed.
3) Generac does not do direct support for generators, they require
customers call a dealer. The dealer can then call Generac, and often does.
I can't even call them if my certification expires.
4) If the generator is under warranty, you may not pay anything, depending
on the coverage. Generac is offering up to ten year warranties. But once it
is out of warranty, you will have to pay. Dealers don't work for free. The
average electrician won't be able to diagnose problems reliably on these
generators.
The residential air cooled generators are very reliable and rarely have
problems if well maintained. Techs should be traveling with common parts, I
bring a controller and a few other parts so I can solve the problem in one
go.
Blown engines are rare, but they do happen. Generally in the first few
hours, so under full warranty and replacement is generally done at
Generac's expense.
If you do have issues, contact me and I will try to help you.










On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 4:41 PM Ray  wrote:

> Some of the issues have been Generac not providing a simple wiring
> schematic, nor simply labeling the 2 start wires.  2nd is requiring either
> internet connection or a call in to get the start code.  Both have been
> very problematic in remote locations with no phone service.  Totally
> unnecessary.  We don't need a Generac tech just to connect wires, I'm the
> licensed electrician.  Last time I called Generac, (control error not
> listed in the manual) they insisted I needed to call in a service tech, and
> offered zero trouble shooting.  I fixed the problem by pulling the fuse and
> resetting the controller.  3rd, service requires a long expensive trip by
> the service tech, who then diagnoses the problem, has to order the parts
> and return weeks later. This means every issue takes 2 round trips to
> resolve.  If its a bigger issue, it requires a truck lift to haul the 500
> lb unit in to the shop.  We're hearing $500 just to get the generator to
> the shop, then another $500 to reinstall it after.
>
> Failures have included several catastrophic engine failures, blowing oil
> every where, some of these have been in the first few hundred hours. Lots
> of control issues, one recently had voltage that varied from 90 to 130, 45
> to 70 Hz, and the inverter wouldn't even connect to it.
>
> I quit selling generators a long time ago, because I didn't want the
> service liability.  I'm not a mechanic, and I don't want to be.  I do
> however, need a generator I can recommend in good faith.  The Ecogen has
> made us look pretty bad.  Glad I didn't sell them, but then I've seen some
> large water cooled unit that worked well.
>
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
>
> On 2/28/20 5:14 AM, Chris Mason wrote:
>
> Ray,
> I'm a Generac dealer. Why are you having support problems? Generac has a
> large dealer network, if the unit is under warranty you should have no
> problem getting it fixed. Did you buy through a dealer and have them
> install it? Why are the services expensive?
>
> What failures are you seeing?
>
> There is a hole in the market for products in this application. Virtually
> no-one makes an affordable ~10KW diesel enclosed 2 wire start 1,800 rpm
> reliable diesel generator. I once ordered, on spec, a 9KW Perkins engine
> liquid cooled enclosed diesel from a factory in China I deal with. I sold
> it to a customer that ran it 18 hours a day on 100% load, to power his
> restaurant refrigeration outside service hours. It lasted him years, it
> must have thousands of hours on it.
> I think the big problem in the US is getting permits for diesel generators.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 6:25 PM Ray  wrote:
>
>> I know we have covered this before, but I just continue to be
>> disappointed with the Generac Ecogen.  Very high failure rate, and
>> support is poor.  Service requires expensive on site service. Also the
>> no load AC draw and programming setup is just not off grid ready at
>> all.  I'm still not seeing any other great choices, though.  Here's some
>> other possibilities:
>>
>> 1) Quality portable, like the Honda EU 7000i or Northstar with Honda
>> motor.  Not the best choice especially for autostart, no propane, but at
>> least they can take it in to the shop if it goes down.
>>
>> 2) Kubota (or MQ) diesel. expensive, and possible cold weather start
>> issues?
>>
>> 3) 20+ kW water

Re: [RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?

[Ray]

Some of the issues have been Generac not providing a simple wiring 
schematic, nor simply labeling the 2 start wires.  2nd is requiring 
either internet connection or a call in to get the start code.  Both 
have been very problematic in remote locations with no phone service.  
Totally unnecessary.  We don't need a Generac tech just to connect 
wires, I'm the licensed electrician.  Last time I called Generac, 
(control error not listed in the manual) they insisted I needed to call 
in a service tech, and offered zero trouble shooting.  I fixed the 
problem by pulling the fuse and resetting the controller.  3rd, service 
requires a long expensive trip by the service tech, who then diagnoses 
the problem, has to order the parts and return weeks later. This means 
every issue takes 2 round trips to resolve.  If its a bigger issue, it 
requires a truck lift to haul the 500 lb unit in to the shop. We're 
hearing $500 just to get the generator to the shop, then another $500 to 
reinstall it after.


Failures have included several catastrophic engine failures, blowing oil 
every where, some of these have been in the first few hundred hours. 
Lots of control issues, one recently had voltage that varied from 90 to 
130, 45 to 70 Hz, and the inverter wouldn't even connect to it.


I quit selling generators a long time ago, because I didn't want the 
service liability.  I'm not a mechanic, and I don't want to be.  I do 
however, need a generator I can recommend in good faith.  The Ecogen has 
made us look pretty bad.  Glad I didn't sell them, but then I've seen 
some large water cooled unit that worked well.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 2/28/20 5:14 AM, Chris Mason wrote:

Ray,
I'm a Generac dealer. Why are you having support problems? Generac has 
a large dealer network, if the unit is under warranty you should have 
no problem getting it fixed. Did you buy through a dealer and have 
them install it? Why are the services expensive?


What failures are you seeing?

There is a hole in the market for products in this application. 
Virtually no-one makes an affordable ~10KW diesel enclosed 2 wire 
start 1,800 rpm reliable diesel generator. I once ordered, on spec, a 
9KW Perkins engine liquid cooled enclosed diesel from a factory in 
China I deal with. I sold it to a customer that ran it 18 hours a day 
on 100% load, to power his restaurant refrigeration outside service 
hours. It lasted him years, it must have thousands of hours on it.
I think the big problem in the US is getting permits for diesel 
generators.




On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 6:25 PM Ray > wrote:


I know we have covered this before, but I just continue to be
disappointed with the Generac Ecogen.  Very high failure rate, and
support is poor.  Service requires expensive on site service. Also
the
no load AC draw and programming setup is just not off grid ready at
all.  I'm still not seeing any other great choices, though. Here's
some
other possibilities:

1) Quality portable, like the Honda EU 7000i or Northstar with Honda
motor.  Not the best choice especially for autostart, no propane,
but at
least they can take it in to the shop if it goes down.

2) Kubota (or MQ) diesel. expensive, and possible cold weather
start issues?

3) 20+ kW water cooled, 1800 rpm propane model.  Overkill, expensive,
but probably will last a really long time.

4) Similar Home standby unit, but Kohler brand.  Kohler used to be
great, but now a days I'm not so sure.

I just can't keep recommending a generator I know has been giving
other
customers trouble.  Any new ideas on this age old problem?

-- 
Ray Walters

Remote Solar
303 505-8760

___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

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--
Chris Mason
Solar systems designer
Generac Generators Industrial technician

Comet Systems Ltd DBA Comet Solar
Anguilla Cell  264.235.5670
WhatsApp 264.235.5670
Skype: netconcepts
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?

[Jay]

2 other small options are, marine generators and RV/truck APU generators. 

Jay
Peltz power. 

> On Feb 28, 2020, at 7:05 AM, Chris Mason  wrote:
> 
> 
> Generac also has a nice 15KW Diesel Protector unit, that'll keep the lights 
> on very nicely, is relatively inexpensive and I haven't heard any complaints 
> about them failing. We had one Protector Diesel with a failed fuel pump 
> solenoid but I changed it out under warranty and there hasn't been any other 
> issues.
> Of course they are not $4,000, you are not going to get a liquid cooled 
> generator for under $10,000.  
> 
>> On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 6:25 PM Ray  wrote:
>> I know we have covered this before, but I just continue to be 
>> disappointed with the Generac Ecogen.  Very high failure rate, and 
>> support is poor.  Service requires expensive on site service. Also the 
>> no load AC draw and programming setup is just not off grid ready at 
>> all.  I'm still not seeing any other great choices, though.  Here's some 
>> other possibilities:
>> 
>> 1) Quality portable, like the Honda EU 7000i or Northstar with Honda 
>> motor.  Not the best choice especially for autostart, no propane, but at 
>> least they can take it in to the shop if it goes down.
>> 
>> 2) Kubota (or MQ) diesel. expensive, and possible cold weather start issues?
>> 
>> 3) 20+ kW water cooled, 1800 rpm propane model.  Overkill, expensive, 
>> but probably will last a really long time.
>> 
>> 4) Similar Home standby unit, but Kohler brand.  Kohler used to be 
>> great, but now a days I'm not so sure.
>> 
>> I just can't keep recommending a generator I know has been giving other
>> customers trouble.  Any new ideas on this age old problem?
>> 
>> -- 
>> Ray Walters
>> Remote Solar
>> 303 505-8760
>> 
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> 
> 
> -- 
> Chris Mason
> Solar systems designer
> Generac Generators Industrial technician
> 
> Comet Systems Ltd DBA Comet Solar
> Anguilla Cell  264.235.5670
> WhatsApp 264.235.5670
> Skype: netconcepts
> www.cometsolar.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?

[Chris Mason]

Generac also has a nice 15KW Diesel Protector unit, that'll keep the lights
on very nicely, is relatively inexpensive and I haven't heard any
complaints about them failing. We had one Protector Diesel with a failed
fuel pump solenoid but I changed it out under warranty and there hasn't
been any other issues.
Of course they are not $4,000, you are not going to get a liquid cooled
generator for under $10,000.

On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 6:25 PM Ray  wrote:

> I know we have covered this before, but I just continue to be
> disappointed with the Generac Ecogen.  Very high failure rate, and
> support is poor.  Service requires expensive on site service. Also the
> no load AC draw and programming setup is just not off grid ready at
> all.  I'm still not seeing any other great choices, though.  Here's some
> other possibilities:
>
> 1) Quality portable, like the Honda EU 7000i or Northstar with Honda
> motor.  Not the best choice especially for autostart, no propane, but at
> least they can take it in to the shop if it goes down.
>
> 2) Kubota (or MQ) diesel. expensive, and possible cold weather start
> issues?
>
> 3) 20+ kW water cooled, 1800 rpm propane model.  Overkill, expensive,
> but probably will last a really long time.
>
> 4) Similar Home standby unit, but Kohler brand.  Kohler used to be
> great, but now a days I'm not so sure.
>
> I just can't keep recommending a generator I know has been giving other
> customers trouble.  Any new ideas on this age old problem?
>
> --
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
>
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-- 
Chris Mason
Solar systems designer
Generac Generators Industrial technician

Comet Systems Ltd DBA Comet Solar
Anguilla Cell  264.235.5670
WhatsApp 264.235.5670
Skype: netconcepts
www.cometsolar.com 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?

[Chris Mason]

William,
Generac has a structure where box stores like HD and Lowes sell the
residential generators and arrange local certified dealers to perform the
installation, warranty and service work. The dealers are not real fond of
it but Generac can't get to be the largest brand relying on dealers for
sales. Generac is pretty good on compensating dealers for warranty work so
there are a number of dealers that make their living on installation,
servicing and warranty work.

On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 10:20 PM William Miller 
wrote:

> Ray, Wrenches:
>
> My experience with Generac is similar to yours.  Coincidentally, I just
> received an invite from our local Greentech to attend a Generac training.
> Apparently Greentech thinks they should sell generators.  This sounds like
> a
> bad fit for a supply house.
>
> When I politely declined the invitation, I mentioned that with any big
> ticket item, especially one with moving parts, I like to create a
> relationship with whoever will be servicing that item.  This starts with
> buying the unit from a reputable local shop.  If you subscribe to this
> theory,  the brand of generator you choose should have someone to service
> it
> within reasonable range.  This may narrow your choices.
>
> William
>
> PS:  The smallest generator I have purchased lately is a 12kw vertical
> crankshaft Kohler.  It gets minimum hours but seems to run OK.
>
> W
>
> Miller Solar
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
> 805-438-5600
> www.millersolar.com
> CA Lic. 773985
>
> -Original Message-
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
> Behalf Of Ray
> Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2020 2:26 PM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?
>
> I know we have covered this before, but I just continue to be
> disappointed with the Generac Ecogen.  Very high failure rate, and
> support is poor.  Service requires expensive on site service. Also the
> no load AC draw and programming setup is just not off grid ready at
> all.  I'm still not seeing any other great choices, though.  Here's some
> other possibilities:
>
> 1) Quality portable, like the Honda EU 7000i or Northstar with Honda
> motor.  Not the best choice especially for autostart, no propane, but at
> least they can take it in to the shop if it goes down.
>
> 2) Kubota (or MQ) diesel. expensive, and possible cold weather start
> issues?
>
> 3) 20+ kW water cooled, 1800 rpm propane model.  Overkill, expensive,
> but probably will last a really long time.
>
> 4) Similar Home standby unit, but Kohler brand.  Kohler used to be
> great, but now a days I'm not so sure.
>
> I just can't keep recommending a generator I know has been giving other
> customers trouble.  Any new ideas on this age old problem?
>
> --
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
>
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>

-- 
Chris Mason
Solar systems designer
Generac Generators Industrial technician

Comet Systems Ltd DBA Comet Solar
Anguilla Cell  264.235.5670
WhatsApp 264.235.5670
Skype: netconcepts
www.cometsolar.com <http://www.cometenergysystems.com/>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?

[Chris Mason]

Ray,
I'm a Generac dealer. Why are you having support problems? Generac has a
large dealer network, if the unit is under warranty you should have no
problem getting it fixed. Did you buy through a dealer and have them
install it? Why are the services expensive?

What failures are you seeing?

There is a hole in the market for products in this application. Virtually
no-one makes an affordable ~10KW diesel enclosed 2 wire start 1,800 rpm
reliable diesel generator. I once ordered, on spec, a 9KW Perkins engine
liquid cooled enclosed diesel from a factory in China I deal with. I sold
it to a customer that ran it 18 hours a day on 100% load, to power his
restaurant refrigeration outside service hours. It lasted him years, it
must have thousands of hours on it.
I think the big problem in the US is getting permits for diesel generators.



On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 6:25 PM Ray  wrote:

> I know we have covered this before, but I just continue to be
> disappointed with the Generac Ecogen.  Very high failure rate, and
> support is poor.  Service requires expensive on site service. Also the
> no load AC draw and programming setup is just not off grid ready at
> all.  I'm still not seeing any other great choices, though.  Here's some
> other possibilities:
>
> 1) Quality portable, like the Honda EU 7000i or Northstar with Honda
> motor.  Not the best choice especially for autostart, no propane, but at
> least they can take it in to the shop if it goes down.
>
> 2) Kubota (or MQ) diesel. expensive, and possible cold weather start
> issues?
>
> 3) 20+ kW water cooled, 1800 rpm propane model.  Overkill, expensive,
> but probably will last a really long time.
>
> 4) Similar Home standby unit, but Kohler brand.  Kohler used to be
> great, but now a days I'm not so sure.
>
> I just can't keep recommending a generator I know has been giving other
> customers trouble.  Any new ideas on this age old problem?
>
> --
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
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>

-- 
Chris Mason
Solar systems designer
Generac Generators Industrial technician

Comet Systems Ltd DBA Comet Solar
Anguilla Cell  264.235.5670
WhatsApp 264.235.5670
Skype: netconcepts
www.cometsolar.com 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?

[Jeff Clearwater]

We've had good experience with the KOHLER 30REOZK 30 KW Diesel units.

Jeff Clearwater
Village Power Design

Kevin Pegg wrote on 2/27/20 9:33 PM:

We have had good success with industrial diesels from a local generator shop 
(westquip diesel). Built to order with name brand components. Put a couple 7.5 
kW and few 14 kW units in last year, and they worked well through this past 
winter so far.

Isuzu 3CH1 or 3CE1 engines, mated to a Stamford generator end, with Dynagen or 
Deep Sea controllers.

For our cold winters in northern Canada, generators fitted with glow plugs, 
intake heater as well as auxillary block heater. We got down to -31F for a week 
this winter and they all started fine unattended. Put a few units in the year 
before with Kubota engines and they were all unreliable cold starters. Much 
happier with Isuzu.

We have a few tweaks we do to the controller programming to help it in the cold 
weather. Have had far better success with this approach than any of the options 
discussed in this thread. Having a responsive generator manufacturer

Of late we have had many quality issues with Honda generators - both the cheaper EM 
series, as well as the EU. Frustrating to diagnose as we provide the repair shop with a 
detailed power quality analysis showing them the issues, but they just don't have the 
expertise to understand that. Their testing is "it runs a skill saw, so it's good, 
right?". So am having to caution clients who go down the Honda route, if they get a 
good unit it's likely to last for a while, but if it's a dud out of the box good luck 
getting it resolved.

Kevin

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Ray
Sent: February-27-20 2:26 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?

I know we have covered this before, but I just continue to be disappointed with 
the Generac Ecogen.  Very high failure rate, and support is poor.  Service 
requires expensive on site service. Also the no load AC draw and programming 
setup is just not off grid ready at all.  I'm still not seeing any other great 
choices, though.  Here's some other possibilities:

1) Quality portable, like the Honda EU 7000i or Northstar with Honda motor.  
Not the best choice especially for autostart, no propane, but at least they can 
take it in to the shop if it goes down.

2) Kubota (or MQ) diesel. expensive, and possible cold weather start issues?

3) 20+ kW water cooled, 1800 rpm propane model.  Overkill, expensive, but 
probably will last a really long time.

4) Similar Home standby unit, but Kohler brand.  Kohler used to be great, but 
now a days I'm not so sure.

I just can't keep recommending a generator I know has been giving other 
customers trouble.  Any new ideas on this age old problem?

--
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

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--
~~~
Jeff Clearwater
Village Power Design
linkedin <https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-clearwater-0622a312/>
www.villagepowerdesign.com <http://www.villagepowerdesign.com>
cell - 413-559-9763
~~~
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?

[Kevin Pegg]

We have had good success with industrial diesels from a local generator shop 
(westquip diesel). Built to order with name brand components. Put a couple 7.5 
kW and few 14 kW units in last year, and they worked well through this past 
winter so far. 

Isuzu 3CH1 or 3CE1 engines, mated to a Stamford generator end, with Dynagen or 
Deep Sea controllers. 

For our cold winters in northern Canada, generators fitted with glow plugs, 
intake heater as well as auxillary block heater. We got down to -31F for a week 
this winter and they all started fine unattended. Put a few units in the year 
before with Kubota engines and they were all unreliable cold starters. Much 
happier with Isuzu. 

We have a few tweaks we do to the controller programming to help it in the cold 
weather. Have had far better success with this approach than any of the options 
discussed in this thread. Having a responsive generator manufacturer

Of late we have had many quality issues with Honda generators - both the 
cheaper EM series, as well as the EU. Frustrating to diagnose as we provide the 
repair shop with a detailed power quality analysis showing them the issues, but 
they just don't have the expertise to understand that. Their testing is "it 
runs a skill saw, so it's good, right?". So am having to caution clients who go 
down the Honda route, if they get a good unit it's likely to last for a while, 
but if it's a dud out of the box good luck getting it resolved. 

Kevin

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Ray
Sent: February-27-20 2:26 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?

I know we have covered this before, but I just continue to be disappointed with 
the Generac Ecogen.  Very high failure rate, and support is poor.  Service 
requires expensive on site service. Also the no load AC draw and programming 
setup is just not off grid ready at all.  I'm still not seeing any other great 
choices, though.  Here's some other possibilities:

1) Quality portable, like the Honda EU 7000i or Northstar with Honda motor.  
Not the best choice especially for autostart, no propane, but at least they can 
take it in to the shop if it goes down.

2) Kubota (or MQ) diesel. expensive, and possible cold weather start issues?

3) 20+ kW water cooled, 1800 rpm propane model.  Overkill, expensive, but 
probably will last a really long time.

4) Similar Home standby unit, but Kohler brand.  Kohler used to be great, but 
now a days I'm not so sure.

I just can't keep recommending a generator I know has been giving other 
customers trouble.  Any new ideas on this age old problem?

--
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?

[Maverick Brown]

Ray

Your list mirrors mine. 

Never. Ever. Ever. Buy or believe you’ll get support of any kind from Generac. 
I fell for the lure of the ECO GEN and it ate itself one night while helping 
our off grid home get through a hot cloudy summer day. 

For my off grid experience since 2005, I would vote for:

1. For Big Systems, I’d vote for a Cummins 1800 water cooled unit. 20kw is 
great genny for a double stack or more of Radians. They work. Period. After a 
few tries, a couple customers agreed to water cooled and life is grand. 

Kohler RES-14 and RES-20 air-cooled units have also been great. For those 
customers there are big battery banks and the generator is less needed. 

2. Kubota GL11000 or GL7000. I have a few in my customer group. I have the 
GL6000 at my shop. It can be made auto start. Diesel is man-potable. They 
always start and run and they are water cooled even though they are 3600 rpms, 
they are quiet. 

3. Honda inverter generators. I have several customers with different wattages. 
I love these. Won’t do much good to put a EU2000i on a 2400Ah bank, but the 
EU7000i can be auto started in some climates with a 3-wire controller like a 
XW-AGS. Keep the oil changed. 

Also. The key here is use vs capacity for use. If you design a system that 
needs the generator to run every. single. day., you might want to spec a 
generator that costs more than the solar array. Or have enough battery for a 8x 
load and solar for 2x or more. 

The old adage you get what you pay for is still valid in the off grid world. 

Thank you,

Maverick


> On Feb 27, 2020, at 4:25 PM, Ray  wrote:
> 
> I know we have covered this before, but I just continue to be disappointed 
> with the Generac Ecogen.  Very high failure rate, and support is poor.  
> Service requires expensive on site service. Also the no load AC draw and 
> programming setup is just not off grid ready at all.  I'm still not seeing 
> any other great choices, though.  Here's some other possibilities:
> 
> 1) Quality portable, like the Honda EU 7000i or Northstar with Honda motor.  
> Not the best choice especially for autostart, no propane, but at least they 
> can take it in to the shop if it goes down.
> 
> 2) Kubota (or MQ) diesel. expensive, and possible cold weather start issues?
> 
> 3) 20+ kW water cooled, 1800 rpm propane model.  Overkill, expensive, but 
> probably will last a really long time.
> 
> 4) Similar Home standby unit, but Kohler brand.  Kohler used to be great, but 
> now a days I'm not so sure.
> 
> I just can't keep recommending a generator I know has been giving other 
> customers trouble.  Any new ideas on this age old problem?
> 
> -- 
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
> 
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?

[Glenn Burt]

The reason Greentech is handling Generac is because they purchased Pika and 
have rebranded their line.-GlennSent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse 
typos and spelling errors.-- Original message--From: William 
MillerDate: Thu, Feb 27, 2020 9:20 PMTo: RE-wrenches;Cc: Subject:Re: 
[RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?Ray, Wrenches:

My experience with Generac is similar to yours.  Coincidentally, I just
received an invite from our local Greentech to attend a Generac training.
Apparently Greentech thinks they should sell generators.  This sounds like a
bad fit for a supply house.

When I politely declined the invitation, I mentioned that with any big
ticket item, especially one with moving parts, I like to create a
relationship with whoever will be servicing that item.  This starts with
buying the unit from a reputable local shop.  If you subscribe to this
theory,  the brand of generator you choose should have someone to service it
within reasonable range.  This may narrow your
 choices.

William

PS:  The smallest generator I have purchased lately is a 12kw vertical
crankshaft Kohler.  It gets minimum hours but seems to run OK.

W

Miller Solar
17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
805-438-5600
www.millersolar.com
CA Lic. 773985

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of Ray
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2020 2:26 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?

I know we have covered this before, but I just continue to be
disappointed with the Generac Ecogen.  Very high failure rate, and
support is poor.  Service requires expensive on site service. Also the
no load AC draw and programming setup is just not off grid ready at
all.  I'm still not seeing any other great choices, though.  Here's some
other possibilities:

1) Quality portable, like the Honda EU 7000i or Northstar with Honda
motor.  Not the best choice especially for autostart, no propane, but at
least they can take
 it in to the shop if it goes down.

2) Kubota (or MQ) diesel. expensive, and possible cold weather start issues?

3) 20+ kW water cooled, 1800 rpm propane model.  Overkill, expensive,
but probably will last a really long time.

4) Similar Home standby unit, but Kohler brand.  Kohler used to be
great, but now a days I'm not so sure.

I just can't keep recommending a generator I know has been giving other
customers trouble.  Any new ideas on this age old problem?

-- 
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?

[William Miller]

Ray, Wrenches:

My experience with Generac is similar to yours.  Coincidentally, I just
received an invite from our local Greentech to attend a Generac training.
Apparently Greentech thinks they should sell generators.  This sounds like a
bad fit for a supply house.

When I politely declined the invitation, I mentioned that with any big
ticket item, especially one with moving parts, I like to create a
relationship with whoever will be servicing that item.  This starts with
buying the unit from a reputable local shop.  If you subscribe to this
theory,  the brand of generator you choose should have someone to service it
within reasonable range.  This may narrow your choices.

William

PS:  The smallest generator I have purchased lately is a 12kw vertical
crankshaft Kohler.  It gets minimum hours but seems to run OK.

W

Miller Solar
17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
805-438-5600
www.millersolar.com
CA Lic. 773985

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of Ray
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2020 2:26 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?

I know we have covered this before, but I just continue to be
disappointed with the Generac Ecogen.  Very high failure rate, and
support is poor.  Service requires expensive on site service. Also the
no load AC draw and programming setup is just not off grid ready at
all.  I'm still not seeing any other great choices, though.  Here's some
other possibilities:

1) Quality portable, like the Honda EU 7000i or Northstar with Honda
motor.  Not the best choice especially for autostart, no propane, but at
least they can take it in to the shop if it goes down.

2) Kubota (or MQ) diesel. expensive, and possible cold weather start issues?

3) 20+ kW water cooled, 1800 rpm propane model.  Overkill, expensive,
but probably will last a really long time.

4) Similar Home standby unit, but Kohler brand.  Kohler used to be
great, but now a days I'm not so sure.

I just can't keep recommending a generator I know has been giving other
customers trouble.  Any new ideas on this age old problem?

-- 
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?

[Michael Morningstar]

It’s a race to the bottom!
At least in the manufacture’s residential offerings. Lawn mower engines. 
Kohler, Cummins/Onan, and Generac still produce high quality industrial 
machines. John Deere, Cummins, Volvo, and Rolls Royce engines. 125kva to 
megawatts.

DynaGen controllers are good. I have seen hiccups before. Today for example. 
One failed to stop a generator after the control circuit opened. After 400 
hours! They also draw a small load, either a battery charger needs to be 
connected to the starting battery, or a minimum weekly exercise to charge. It’s 
a vulnerability. I don’t use generators that use them for unattended of -grid 
or when there isn’t another backup generator. Generators with simple engine 
controllers like Wrico W120, are best. Many generators can be retrofitted with 
such a controller.

>> On Feb 27, 2020, at 5:24 PM, Ray  wrote:
> 
> Well, that's certainly a glowing (hot) review for Kohler.  Amazing that with 
> as much progress as we've made with solar, MPPT controllers, and Li+ 
> batteries, the industry has gone backwards significantly in the generator 
> department.  Kohler used to make a wonderful little water cooled 1800 rpm 
> model, some of which are still in service. 
> 
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
> On 2/27/20 5:45 PM, Amanda Potter wrote:
>> We Installed a Kohler 14RES, L.P. & the crank-case breather froze ( the 
>> generator was on auto & was in a shelter), and the dip-stick blew out & the 
>> generator had just started & set the engine on fire. Oil everywhere.
>> Luckily a worker saw the flames, (this was new Off-Grid construction), and 
>> was able to put the fire out.
>> The construction workers did not trust the off-grid system anymore (Conext 
>> XW6848, which worked exactly as it was designed), and the owner tried and 
>> tried to get Kohler to honor the warranty (500 hours), but to no avail.
>> He had to buy another generator.
>> 
>> Amanda Potter
>> Energy Storage Specialist
>> NABCEP PV Installation Professional
>> NYSERDA Eligible PV Installer
>> Adirondack Battery & Solar, LLC
>> Potsdam, NY
>> (315) 212-2114
>> 
>>> On Feb 27, 2020, at 6:22 PM, Mac Lewis  wrote:
>>> 
>>> We have had pretty good luck with the 14 kW Kohler which has an off-grid 
>>> warranty.  Its not perfect but it seems solid.  We have had a few people 
>>> with near 5000 hours on them.  The controller is a bit of an energy hog but 
>>> its the best we've found that weighs all of these issues.
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 4:06 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 
>>>  wrote:
 The Honda EU7000i also has it's own remote start kit that plugs into a
 socket on the genset. I think it has a 140 foot cable. About as easy to
 install as there is. Incredible life and reliability. We do not need a
 genset here but many of my clients use these.
 
 Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
 "we go where powerlines don't"
 http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
 e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
 text 209 813 0060
 
 On Thu, 27 Feb 2020 14:53:09 -0800, Michael Morningstar
  wrote:
 > For small propane generators: Honda eu7000i w/propane conversion from
 > GenConnex and 2 wire start kit from GenLine. I’ve installed a couple
 dozen.
 > 4-8k hours life expectancy. Correct jet is a must for altitudes over
 5.5k.
 > Alternators are a bit weak so I install a NOKO that’s plugged into the
 > generators own receptacle for extra on board charging.
 > 
 > Small Diesel 7.5kw and up, that’s easy. Wrico International. I’ve got
 over
 > a hundred out there. No standby power draw. Super simple. Bulletproof.
 The
 > only issues I’ve seen are fuel supply related. 20k hours no problem.
 Open
 > Frame, so some protection is needed. They are building 7.5kw and up
 propane
 > generators now. I haven’t used one yet, but will when the right project
 > comes around. Their product support is the best. Call them and you will
 > speak to one of the principals. They can walk a layperson customer
 through
 > just about anything I would be called on to service.
 > 
 > The larger low RPM, water cooled propane generators aren’t without their
 > problems. Kohler and Cummins/Onan have had problems within 2-3k hours.
 They
 > just aren’t the same as 10 years ago.
 > 
 > Many dozens of Multi Quips out there. They are good choice. Tech support
 > response is generally slow.
 > 
 > Michael
 > 
 >> On Feb 27, 2020, at 2:25 PM, Ray  wrote:
 >> 
 >> I know we have covered this before, but I just continue to be
 >> disappointed with the Generac Ecogen.  Very high failure rate, and
 >> support is poor.  Service requires expensive on site service. Also the
 no
 >> load AC draw and programming setup is just not off grid ready at all. 
 >> I'm still not seeing any other great choices, though.  Here's some
 other
 >> possibilities:

Re: [RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?

[Ray]

Well, that's certainly a glowing (hot) review for Kohler. Amazing that 
with as much progress as we've made with solar, MPPT controllers, and 
Li+ batteries, the industry has gone backwards significantly in the 
generator department.  Kohler used to make a wonderful little water 
cooled 1800 rpm model, some of which are still in service.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 2/27/20 5:45 PM, Amanda Potter wrote:
We Installed a Kohler 14RES, L.P. & the crank-case breather froze ( 
the generator was on auto & was in a shelter), and the dip-stick blew 
out & the generator had just started & set the engine on fire. Oil 
everywhere.
Luckily a worker saw the flames, (this was new Off-Grid construction), 
and was able to put the fire out.
The construction workers did not trust the off-grid system anymore 
(Conext XW6848, which worked exactly as it was designed), and the 
owner tried and tried to get Kohler to honor the warranty (500 hours), 
but to no avail.

He had to buy another generator.

Amanda Potter
Energy Storage Specialist
NABCEP PV Installation Professional
NYSERDA Eligible PV Installer
Adirondack Battery & Solar, LLC
Potsdam, NY
(315) 212-2114


On Feb 27, 2020, at 6:22 PM, Mac Lewis  wrote:


We have had pretty good luck with the 14 kW Kohler which has an 
off-grid warranty.  Its not perfect but it seems solid.  We have had 
a few people with near 5000 hours on them.  The controller is a bit 
of an energy hog but its the best we've found that weighs all of 
these issues.


On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 4:06 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 
mailto:offgridso...@sti.net>> wrote:


The Honda EU7000i also has it's own remote start kit that plugs
into a
socket on the genset. I think it has a 140 foot cable. About as
easy to
install as there is. Incredible life and reliability. We do not
need a
genset here but many of my clients use these.

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net 
text 209 813 0060

On Thu, 27 Feb 2020 14:53:09 -0800, Michael Morningstar
mailto:mjmornings...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> For small propane generators: Honda eu7000i w/propane
conversion from
> GenConnex and 2 wire start kit from GenLine. I’ve installed a
couple
dozen.
> 4-8k hours life expectancy. Correct jet is a must for altitudes
over
5.5k.
> Alternators are a bit weak so I install a NOKO that’s plugged
into the
> generators own receptacle for extra on board charging.
>
> Small Diesel 7.5kw and up, that’s easy. Wrico International.
I’ve got
over
> a hundred out there. No standby power draw. Super simple.
Bulletproof.
The
> only issues I’ve seen are fuel supply related. 20k hours no
problem.
Open
> Frame, so some protection is needed. They are building 7.5kw and up
propane
> generators now. I haven’t used one yet, but will when the right
project
> comes around. Their product support is the best. Call them and
you will
> speak to one of the principals. They can walk a layperson customer
through
> just about anything I would be called on to service.
>
> The larger low RPM, water cooled propane generators aren’t
without their
> problems. Kohler and Cummins/Onan have had problems within 2-3k
hours.
They
> just aren’t the same as 10 years ago.
>
> Many dozens of Multi Quips out there. They are good choice.
Tech support
> response is generally slow.
>
> Michael
>
>> On Feb 27, 2020, at 2:25 PM, Ray mailto:r...@solarray.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I know we have covered this before, but I just continue to be
>> disappointed with the Generac Ecogen.  Very high failure rate, and
>> support is poor.  Service requires expensive on site service.
Also the
no
>> load AC draw and programming setup is just not off grid ready
at all.
>> I'm still not seeing any other great choices, though.  Here's some
other
>> possibilities:
>>
>> 1) Quality portable, like the Honda EU 7000i or Northstar with
Honda
>> motor.  Not the best choice especially for autostart, no
propane, but
at
>> least they can take it in to the shop if it goes down.
>>
>> 2) Kubota (or MQ) diesel. expensive, and possible cold weather
start
>> issues?
>>
>> 3) 20+ kW water cooled, 1800 rpm propane model.  Overkill,
expensive,
>> but probably will last a really long time.
>>
>> 4) Similar Home standby unit, but Kohler brand.  Kohler used to be
>> great, but now a days I'm not so sure.
>>
>> I just can't keep recommending a generator I know has been
giving other
>> customers trouble.  Any new ideas on this age old problem?
>>
>> --
>> Ray Walters
>> Remote Solar
>> 303 505-8760
>>
>> _

Re: [RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?

[Lou Russo]

We recommend two setups:

1. Any correctly sized Honda with no auto-start. I have tried
unsuccessfully to get the auto-start (not remote start) to be 90% reliable.
Client can haul it to town if they need. Honda seems to make a pretty
reliable gasoline generator. This is how I run my off-grid home and I've
had the same one for 8 years now.

2. Any correctly sized Northern-Lights generator with a DynaGen GSC300
auto-start.  Rock solid 2-wire start with a even better engine and
generator end. Have some well maintained ones out there that are over 15
years old with 10,000 plus hours. Pricey but over the top reliability.

Aloha,

Lou Russo
(808) 345 6762



On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 2:54 PM Amanda Potter 
wrote:

> We Installed a Kohler 14RES, L.P. & the crank-case breather froze ( the
> generator was on auto & was in a shelter), and the dip-stick blew out & the
> generator had just started & set the engine on fire. Oil everywhere.
> Luckily a worker saw the flames, (this was new Off-Grid construction), and
> was able to put the fire out.
> The construction workers did not trust the off-grid system anymore (Conext
> XW6848, which worked exactly as it was designed), and the owner tried and
> tried to get Kohler to honor the warranty (500 hours), but to no avail.
> He had to buy another generator.
>
> Amanda Potter
> Energy Storage Specialist
> NABCEP PV Installation Professional
> NYSERDA Eligible PV Installer
> Adirondack Battery & Solar, LLC
> Potsdam, NY
> (315) 212-2114
>
> On Feb 27, 2020, at 6:22 PM, Mac Lewis  wrote:
>
> 
> We have had pretty good luck with the 14 kW Kohler which has an off-grid
> warranty.  Its not perfect but it seems solid.  We have had a few people
> with near 5000 hours on them.  The controller is a bit of an energy hog but
> its the best we've found that weighs all of these issues.
>
> On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 4:06 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <
> offgridso...@sti.net> wrote:
>
>> The Honda EU7000i also has it's own remote start kit that plugs into a
>> socket on the genset. I think it has a 140 foot cable. About as easy to
>> install as there is. Incredible life and reliability. We do not need a
>> genset here but many of my clients use these.
>>
>> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
>> "we go where powerlines don't"
>> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
>> e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
>> text 209 813 0060
>>
>> On Thu, 27 Feb 2020 14:53:09 -0800, Michael Morningstar
>>  wrote:
>> > For small propane generators: Honda eu7000i w/propane conversion from
>> > GenConnex and 2 wire start kit from GenLine. I’ve installed a couple
>> dozen.
>> > 4-8k hours life expectancy. Correct jet is a must for altitudes over
>> 5.5k.
>> > Alternators are a bit weak so I install a NOKO that’s plugged into the
>> > generators own receptacle for extra on board charging.
>> >
>> > Small Diesel 7.5kw and up, that’s easy. Wrico International. I’ve got
>> over
>> > a hundred out there. No standby power draw. Super simple. Bulletproof.
>> The
>> > only issues I’ve seen are fuel supply related. 20k hours no problem.
>> Open
>> > Frame, so some protection is needed. They are building 7.5kw and up
>> propane
>> > generators now. I haven’t used one yet, but will when the right project
>> > comes around. Their product support is the best. Call them and you will
>> > speak to one of the principals. They can walk a layperson customer
>> through
>> > just about anything I would be called on to service.
>> >
>> > The larger low RPM, water cooled propane generators aren’t without their
>> > problems. Kohler and Cummins/Onan have had problems within 2-3k hours.
>> They
>> > just aren’t the same as 10 years ago.
>> >
>> > Many dozens of Multi Quips out there. They are good choice. Tech support
>> > response is generally slow.
>> >
>> > Michael
>> >
>> >> On Feb 27, 2020, at 2:25 PM, Ray  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I know we have covered this before, but I just continue to be
>> >> disappointed with the Generac Ecogen.  Very high failure rate, and
>> >> support is poor.  Service requires expensive on site service. Also the
>> no
>> >> load AC draw and programming setup is just not off grid ready at all.
>> >> I'm still not seeing any other great choices, though.  Here's some
>> other
>> >> possibilities:
>> >>
>> >> 1) Quality portable, like the Honda EU 7000i or Northstar with Honda
>> >> motor.  Not the best choice especially for autostart, no propane, but
>> at
>> >> least they can take it in to the shop if it goes down.
>> >>
>> >> 2) Kubota (or MQ) diesel. expensive, and possible cold weather start
>> >> issues?
>> >>
>> >> 3) 20+ kW water cooled, 1800 rpm propane model.  Overkill, expensive,
>> >> but probably will last a really long time.
>> >>
>> >> 4) Similar Home standby unit, but Kohler brand.  Kohler used to be
>> >> great, but now a days I'm not so sure.
>> >>
>> >> I just can't keep recommending a generator I know has been giving other
>> >> customers trouble.  Any new ideas on this age old problem?
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >>

Re: [RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?

[Amanda Potter]

We Installed a Kohler 14RES, L.P. & the crank-case breather froze ( the 
generator was on auto & was in a shelter), and the dip-stick blew out & the 
generator had just started & set the engine on fire. Oil everywhere.
Luckily a worker saw the flames, (this was new Off-Grid construction), and was 
able to put the fire out.
The construction workers did not trust the off-grid system anymore (Conext 
XW6848, which worked exactly as it was designed), and the owner tried and tried 
to get Kohler to honor the warranty (500 hours), but to no avail.
He had to buy another generator.

Amanda Potter
Energy Storage Specialist
NABCEP PV Installation Professional
NYSERDA Eligible PV Installer
Adirondack Battery & Solar, LLC
Potsdam, NY
(315) 212-2114

> On Feb 27, 2020, at 6:22 PM, Mac Lewis  wrote:
> 
> 
> We have had pretty good luck with the 14 kW Kohler which has an off-grid 
> warranty.  Its not perfect but it seems solid.  We have had a few people with 
> near 5000 hours on them.  The controller is a bit of an energy hog but its 
> the best we've found that weighs all of these issues.
> 
>> On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 4:06 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 
>>  wrote:
>> The Honda EU7000i also has it's own remote start kit that plugs into a
>> socket on the genset. I think it has a 140 foot cable. About as easy to
>> install as there is. Incredible life and reliability. We do not need a
>> genset here but many of my clients use these.
>> 
>> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
>> "we go where powerlines don't"
>> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
>> e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
>> text 209 813 0060
>> 
>> On Thu, 27 Feb 2020 14:53:09 -0800, Michael Morningstar
>>  wrote:
>> > For small propane generators: Honda eu7000i w/propane conversion from
>> > GenConnex and 2 wire start kit from GenLine. I’ve installed a couple
>> dozen.
>> > 4-8k hours life expectancy. Correct jet is a must for altitudes over
>> 5.5k.
>> > Alternators are a bit weak so I install a NOKO that’s plugged into the
>> > generators own receptacle for extra on board charging.
>> > 
>> > Small Diesel 7.5kw and up, that’s easy. Wrico International. I’ve got
>> over
>> > a hundred out there. No standby power draw. Super simple. Bulletproof.
>> The
>> > only issues I’ve seen are fuel supply related. 20k hours no problem.
>> Open
>> > Frame, so some protection is needed. They are building 7.5kw and up
>> propane
>> > generators now. I haven’t used one yet, but will when the right project
>> > comes around. Their product support is the best. Call them and you will
>> > speak to one of the principals. They can walk a layperson customer
>> through
>> > just about anything I would be called on to service.
>> > 
>> > The larger low RPM, water cooled propane generators aren’t without their
>> > problems. Kohler and Cummins/Onan have had problems within 2-3k hours.
>> They
>> > just aren’t the same as 10 years ago.
>> > 
>> > Many dozens of Multi Quips out there. They are good choice. Tech support
>> > response is generally slow.
>> > 
>> > Michael
>> > 
>> >> On Feb 27, 2020, at 2:25 PM, Ray  wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> I know we have covered this before, but I just continue to be
>> >> disappointed with the Generac Ecogen.  Very high failure rate, and
>> >> support is poor.  Service requires expensive on site service. Also the
>> no
>> >> load AC draw and programming setup is just not off grid ready at all. 
>> >> I'm still not seeing any other great choices, though.  Here's some
>> other
>> >> possibilities:
>> >> 
>> >> 1) Quality portable, like the Honda EU 7000i or Northstar with Honda
>> >> motor.  Not the best choice especially for autostart, no propane, but
>> at
>> >> least they can take it in to the shop if it goes down.
>> >> 
>> >> 2) Kubota (or MQ) diesel. expensive, and possible cold weather start
>> >> issues?
>> >> 
>> >> 3) 20+ kW water cooled, 1800 rpm propane model.  Overkill, expensive,
>> >> but probably will last a really long time.
>> >> 
>> >> 4) Similar Home standby unit, but Kohler brand.  Kohler used to be
>> >> great, but now a days I'm not so sure.
>> >> 
>> >> I just can't keep recommending a generator I know has been giving other
>> >> customers trouble.  Any new ideas on this age old problem?
>> >> 
>> >> -- 
>> >> Ray Walters
>> >> Remote Solar
>> >> 303 505-8760
>> >> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?

[Jerry Shafer]

Ray
Look at Cummins, easy programming, it will require a battery charger for
the starter, two wire auto start and great service
Jerry

On Thu, Feb 27, 2020, 2:25 PM Ray  wrote:

> I know we have covered this before, but I just continue to be
> disappointed with the Generac Ecogen.  Very high failure rate, and
> support is poor.  Service requires expensive on site service. Also the
> no load AC draw and programming setup is just not off grid ready at
> all.  I'm still not seeing any other great choices, though.  Here's some
> other possibilities:
>
> 1) Quality portable, like the Honda EU 7000i or Northstar with Honda
> motor.  Not the best choice especially for autostart, no propane, but at
> least they can take it in to the shop if it goes down.
>
> 2) Kubota (or MQ) diesel. expensive, and possible cold weather start
> issues?
>
> 3) 20+ kW water cooled, 1800 rpm propane model.  Overkill, expensive,
> but probably will last a really long time.
>
> 4) Similar Home standby unit, but Kohler brand.  Kohler used to be
> great, but now a days I'm not so sure.
>
> I just can't keep recommending a generator I know has been giving other
> customers trouble.  Any new ideas on this age old problem?
>
> --
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
>
> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?

[Mac Lewis]

We have had pretty good luck with the 14 kW Kohler which has an off-grid
warranty.  Its not perfect but it seems solid.  We have had a few people
with near 5000 hours on them.  The controller is a bit of an energy hog but
its the best we've found that weighs all of these issues.

On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 4:06 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <
offgridso...@sti.net> wrote:

> The Honda EU7000i also has it's own remote start kit that plugs into a
> socket on the genset. I think it has a 140 foot cable. About as easy to
> install as there is. Incredible life and reliability. We do not need a
> genset here but many of my clients use these.
>
> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> "we go where powerlines don't"
> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
> e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
> text 209 813 0060
>
> On Thu, 27 Feb 2020 14:53:09 -0800, Michael Morningstar
>  wrote:
> > For small propane generators: Honda eu7000i w/propane conversion from
> > GenConnex and 2 wire start kit from GenLine. I’ve installed a couple
> dozen.
> > 4-8k hours life expectancy. Correct jet is a must for altitudes over
> 5.5k.
> > Alternators are a bit weak so I install a NOKO that’s plugged into the
> > generators own receptacle for extra on board charging.
> >
> > Small Diesel 7.5kw and up, that’s easy. Wrico International. I’ve got
> over
> > a hundred out there. No standby power draw. Super simple. Bulletproof.
> The
> > only issues I’ve seen are fuel supply related. 20k hours no problem.
> Open
> > Frame, so some protection is needed. They are building 7.5kw and up
> propane
> > generators now. I haven’t used one yet, but will when the right project
> > comes around. Their product support is the best. Call them and you will
> > speak to one of the principals. They can walk a layperson customer
> through
> > just about anything I would be called on to service.
> >
> > The larger low RPM, water cooled propane generators aren’t without their
> > problems. Kohler and Cummins/Onan have had problems within 2-3k hours.
> They
> > just aren’t the same as 10 years ago.
> >
> > Many dozens of Multi Quips out there. They are good choice. Tech support
> > response is generally slow.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >> On Feb 27, 2020, at 2:25 PM, Ray  wrote:
> >>
> >> I know we have covered this before, but I just continue to be
> >> disappointed with the Generac Ecogen.  Very high failure rate, and
> >> support is poor.  Service requires expensive on site service. Also the
> no
> >> load AC draw and programming setup is just not off grid ready at all.
> >> I'm still not seeing any other great choices, though.  Here's some
> other
> >> possibilities:
> >>
> >> 1) Quality portable, like the Honda EU 7000i or Northstar with Honda
> >> motor.  Not the best choice especially for autostart, no propane, but
> at
> >> least they can take it in to the shop if it goes down.
> >>
> >> 2) Kubota (or MQ) diesel. expensive, and possible cold weather start
> >> issues?
> >>
> >> 3) 20+ kW water cooled, 1800 rpm propane model.  Overkill, expensive,
> >> but probably will last a really long time.
> >>
> >> 4) Similar Home standby unit, but Kohler brand.  Kohler used to be
> >> great, but now a days I'm not so sure.
> >>
> >> I just can't keep recommending a generator I know has been giving other
> >> customers trouble.  Any new ideas on this age old problem?
> >>
> >> --
> >> Ray Walters
> >> Remote Solar
> >> 303 505-8760
> >>
> >> ___
> >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
> >>
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> >>
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-- 



Mac Lewis

*

Re: [RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

The Honda EU7000i also has it's own remote start kit that plugs into a
socket on the genset. I think it has a 140 foot cable. About as easy to
install as there is. Incredible life and reliability. We do not need a
genset here but many of my clients use these.

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On Thu, 27 Feb 2020 14:53:09 -0800, Michael Morningstar
 wrote:
> For small propane generators: Honda eu7000i w/propane conversion from
> GenConnex and 2 wire start kit from GenLine. I’ve installed a couple
dozen.
> 4-8k hours life expectancy. Correct jet is a must for altitudes over
5.5k.
> Alternators are a bit weak so I install a NOKO that’s plugged into the
> generators own receptacle for extra on board charging.
> 
> Small Diesel 7.5kw and up, that’s easy. Wrico International. I’ve got
over
> a hundred out there. No standby power draw. Super simple. Bulletproof.
The
> only issues I’ve seen are fuel supply related. 20k hours no problem.
Open
> Frame, so some protection is needed. They are building 7.5kw and up
propane
> generators now. I haven’t used one yet, but will when the right project
> comes around. Their product support is the best. Call them and you will
> speak to one of the principals. They can walk a layperson customer
through
> just about anything I would be called on to service.
> 
> The larger low RPM, water cooled propane generators aren’t without their
> problems. Kohler and Cummins/Onan have had problems within 2-3k hours.
They
> just aren’t the same as 10 years ago.
> 
> Many dozens of Multi Quips out there. They are good choice. Tech support
> response is generally slow.
> 
> Michael
> 
>> On Feb 27, 2020, at 2:25 PM, Ray  wrote:
>> 
>> I know we have covered this before, but I just continue to be
>> disappointed with the Generac Ecogen.  Very high failure rate, and
>> support is poor.  Service requires expensive on site service. Also the
no
>> load AC draw and programming setup is just not off grid ready at all. 
>> I'm still not seeing any other great choices, though.  Here's some
other
>> possibilities:
>> 
>> 1) Quality portable, like the Honda EU 7000i or Northstar with Honda
>> motor.  Not the best choice especially for autostart, no propane, but
at
>> least they can take it in to the shop if it goes down.
>> 
>> 2) Kubota (or MQ) diesel. expensive, and possible cold weather start
>> issues?
>> 
>> 3) 20+ kW water cooled, 1800 rpm propane model.  Overkill, expensive,
>> but probably will last a really long time.
>> 
>> 4) Similar Home standby unit, but Kohler brand.  Kohler used to be
>> great, but now a days I'm not so sure.
>> 
>> I just can't keep recommending a generator I know has been giving other
>> customers trouble.  Any new ideas on this age old problem?
>> 
>> -- 
>> Ray Walters
>> Remote Solar
>> 303 505-8760
>> 
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>> 
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?

[Bob Maynard]

Avoid Onan as well.  Now a Cummins company with un-affordable field service
only policy.

On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 2:25 PM Ray  wrote:

> I know we have covered this before, but I just continue to be
> disappointed with the Generac Ecogen.  Very high failure rate, and
> support is poor.  Service requires expensive on site service. Also the
> no load AC draw and programming setup is just not off grid ready at
> all.  I'm still not seeing any other great choices, though.  Here's some
> other possibilities:
>
> 1) Quality portable, like the Honda EU 7000i or Northstar with Honda
> motor.  Not the best choice especially for autostart, no propane, but at
> least they can take it in to the shop if it goes down.
>
> 2) Kubota (or MQ) diesel. expensive, and possible cold weather start
> issues?
>
> 3) 20+ kW water cooled, 1800 rpm propane model.  Overkill, expensive,
> but probably will last a really long time.
>
> 4) Similar Home standby unit, but Kohler brand.  Kohler used to be
> great, but now a days I'm not so sure.
>
> I just can't keep recommending a generator I know has been giving other
> customers trouble.  Any new ideas on this age old problem?
>
> --
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?

[Michael Morningstar]

For small propane generators: Honda eu7000i w/propane conversion from GenConnex 
and 2 wire start kit from GenLine. I’ve installed a couple dozen. 4-8k hours 
life expectancy. Correct jet is a must for altitudes over 5.5k. Alternators are 
a bit weak so I install a NOKO that’s plugged into the generators own 
receptacle for extra on board charging.

Small Diesel 7.5kw and up, that’s easy. Wrico International. I’ve got over a 
hundred out there. No standby power draw. Super simple. Bulletproof. The only 
issues I’ve seen are fuel supply related. 20k hours no problem. Open Frame, so 
some protection is needed. They are building 7.5kw and up propane generators 
now. I haven’t used one yet, but will when the right project comes around. 
Their product support is the best. Call them and you will speak to one of the 
principals. They can walk a layperson customer through just about anything I 
would be called on to service.

The larger low RPM, water cooled propane generators aren’t without their 
problems. Kohler and Cummins/Onan have had problems within 2-3k hours. They 
just aren’t the same as 10 years ago.

Many dozens of Multi Quips out there. They are good choice. Tech support 
response is generally slow.

Michael

> On Feb 27, 2020, at 2:25 PM, Ray  wrote:
> 
> I know we have covered this before, but I just continue to be disappointed 
> with the Generac Ecogen.  Very high failure rate, and support is poor.  
> Service requires expensive on site service. Also the no load AC draw and 
> programming setup is just not off grid ready at all.  I'm still not seeing 
> any other great choices, though.  Here's some other possibilities:
> 
> 1) Quality portable, like the Honda EU 7000i or Northstar with Honda motor.  
> Not the best choice especially for autostart, no propane, but at least they 
> can take it in to the shop if it goes down.
> 
> 2) Kubota (or MQ) diesel. expensive, and possible cold weather start issues?
> 
> 3) 20+ kW water cooled, 1800 rpm propane model.  Overkill, expensive, but 
> probably will last a really long time.
> 
> 4) Similar Home standby unit, but Kohler brand.  Kohler used to be great, but 
> now a days I'm not so sure.
> 
> I just can't keep recommending a generator I know has been giving other 
> customers trouble.  Any new ideas on this age old problem?
> 
> -- 
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
> 
> ___
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[RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?

[Ray]

I know we have covered this before, but I just continue to be 
disappointed with the Generac Ecogen.  Very high failure rate, and 
support is poor.  Service requires expensive on site service. Also the 
no load AC draw and programming setup is just not off grid ready at 
all.  I'm still not seeing any other great choices, though.  Here's some 
other possibilities:


1) Quality portable, like the Honda EU 7000i or Northstar with Honda 
motor.  Not the best choice especially for autostart, no propane, but at 
least they can take it in to the shop if it goes down.


2) Kubota (or MQ) diesel. expensive, and possible cold weather start issues?

3) 20+ kW water cooled, 1800 rpm propane model.  Overkill, expensive, 
but probably will last a really long time.


4) Similar Home standby unit, but Kohler brand.  Kohler used to be 
great, but now a days I'm not so sure.


I just can't keep recommending a generator I know has been giving other 
customers trouble.  Any new ideas on this age old problem?


--
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

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