RE: [Repeater-Builder] Need a TLD-2601A PA
Instead of a magnifying glass, use freeze mist and a heat gun to find the intermittent. Another method to locate the problem; when it has failed you can push on the leads of the devices with an insulated tool and when you push on the lead that is intermittent it will pop back on. As was pointed out in another post the bond at the gold to tin on the device leads has oxidized very common PA problem. -Kevin -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Clarke Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 10:26 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Need a TLD-2601A PA Our club's MSR-2000 repeater recently ate it's PA, a TLD-2601A. Actually it went intermittent on us and several folks have gone over it with the magnifying glass and reflowed most of the major solder joints to no avail. That's a low split, 100 watt, continuous duty PA. If anyone has one available we are interested. We are in the Baltimore Washington area and could pick up within a reasonable distance (whatever the heck that is!) rather than shipping the fairly heavy unit. 73 de Tom/W4OKW (K3HKI Rpt) Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Need a TLD-2601A PA
I remember going to the Glenayre paging company for training years ago. I saw that the factory had stripped off the gold plate on all the PA transistors before attaching them to the board. This was critical for a PA that stayed key-down for hours, or even days. The spare part transistors were also shipped with the gold removed, but were very expensive to purchase because of this extra work. Now I know what the problem was called, gold embrittlement. Thanks, 73, Joe, K1ike PS; You aren't the Glenn that worked a Glenayre, are you? Glenn Little WB4UIV wrote: Desolder the flat gold plated transistor leads. Clean the black residue at the gold - tin interface. Resolder the transistor leads after removing any gold left by tinning the lead and removing the solder a few times. Gold embrittlement is very common. 73 Glenn WB4UIV
Re: [Repeater-Builder] DB-224 Matching
I have modified several of the 155 mHz center frequency DB-224 antennas to the ham band. I found that it takes a 2 inch extension to each end of each dipole to move them down. My mod was done empirically by taking a single dipole and hooking it to an analyzer and finding the original center frequency to be ~ 155 mHz. With the 2 inch extension added to each end, the center frequency moved down to 146 mHz. I did not have to modify the harness. I make the extension out of a scrapped TV antenna with rolled tubing elements. I flatten the tubing so that it can be wrapped around the dipole at the center point of each end and put a single screw through the wrapped flat portion of the TV tubing to clamp it to the dipole. When all assembled, I measure the distance to the end of the tubing from the 224 dipole and cut the extension to 2 inches. This moves the center frequency of the completed DB-224 mod down to 146 mHz from 155 mHz. 73 - Jim W5ZIT --- On Wed, 8/19/09, tahrens301 tahr...@swtexas.net wrote: From: tahrens301 tahr...@swtexas.net Subject: [Repeater-Builder] DB-224 Matching To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, August 19, 2009, 8:40 AM In my quest to get rid of desense with the Quantar, someone mentioned that having the 'wrong' antenna could make the desense worse. I've got a DB-224 - not the 'ham' version, but the 150-160 MHz version, and there is a bit of a mismatch. Has anyone ever had any desense that they could attribute to less than perfect matching? (I'm not talking about a gross problem, like one of the elements broken, etc) Has anyone built a 'tuner' for that version of the 224, so that the transmitter/ duplexer pair would see a better SWR? If this thing ever gets up, it's gonna be perfect! :-) Thanks, Tim W5FN
[Repeater-Builder] Re: DB-224 Matching
Hi Jim, That's what I was looking for! Do you have any oxidation/connection issues where the tubing is wrapped around screwed together? Perhaps drilling a hole through the original element for connection might be better. Just wondering. Thanks for the tip!! Tim W5FN --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Jim Brown w5...@... wrote: I have modified several of the 155 mHz center frequency DB-224 antennas to the ham band. I found that it takes a 2 inch extension to each end of each dipole to move them down. My mod was done empirically by taking a single dipole and hooking it to an analyzer and finding the original center frequency to be ~ 155 mHz. With the 2 inch extension added to each end, the center frequency moved down to 146 mHz. I did not have to modify the harness. I make the extension out of a scrapped TV antenna with rolled tubing elements. I flatten the tubing so that it can be wrapped around the dipole at the center point of each end and put a single screw through the wrapped flat portion of the TV tubing to clamp it to the dipole. When all assembled, I measure the distance to the end of the tubing from the 224 dipole and cut the extension to 2 inches. This moves the center frequency of the completed DB-224 mod down to 146 mHz from 155 mHz. 73 - Jim W5ZIT --- On Wed, 8/19/09, tahrens301 tahr...@... wrote: From: tahrens301 tahr...@... Subject: [Repeater-Builder] DB-224 Matching To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, August 19, 2009, 8:40 AM In my quest to get rid of desense with the Quantar, someone mentioned that having the 'wrong' antenna could make the desense worse. I've got a DB-224 - not the 'ham' version, but the 150-160 MHz version, and there is a bit of a mismatch. Has anyone ever had any desense that they could attribute to less than perfect matching? (I'm not talking about a gross problem, like one of the elements broken, etc) Has anyone built a 'tuner' for that version of the 224, so that the transmitter/ duplexer pair would see a better SWR? If this thing ever gets up, it's gonna be perfect! :-) Thanks, Tim W5FN
[Repeater-Builder] Re: DB-224 Matching
Hi Jim, I have used a directional coupler to get a received signal into the system, but have too many adapters on it to make it work right! The repeater is a Motorola Quantar, so there shouldn't be any problem in the split size. I can have one antenna on the tower, but not two, so I gotta make it work! Thanks, Tim W5FN --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, James Lee moto_t...@... wrote: Have you checked the repeater for desense without the antenna installed? As in most commercial repeaters they are usually designed for larger spacing than 600 kHz. Check it without the antenna and all open ports terminated with a 50 ohm termination. Then add the antenna and look at the difference. I have had problems where I had to split the transmit and receive to two different antennas and split the duplexers accordingly. I also chased this down once to a cheap right angle connector, the manufacturer used a spring to make the turn and it made a neat detector!..Jim
[Repeater-Builder] Repeater building
I have 2 mobile radio's and im very new at this but i was wondering if there was a way that i could make a reapeater out of them for my vechical. My goal is to be able to talk to my mobile repeater that will in turn transmit over the 50watt radio other than my portable which is 5watt. I have an older model uniden and older model motorola. i know i would need to purches a duplexer (at least i think i would unless i put 2 antennas on my truck) but anyway, if anyone has any ideas on making on that would be grand. Thanks, Nick
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeater building
I have very little knowledge with Uniden but I am with Motorola. I don't know if this will help you any but you would definitely need a duplexer because at 50 watts tx on a repeater your antenna's would have to be separated vertically around 50 ft and horizontally as much as a mile to get the necessary separation. As far as linking them together I'd recommend having 2 Motorola type radio's, there easier to work with --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, flame05154 flame05...@... wrote: I have 2 mobile radio's and im very new at this but i was wondering if there was a way that i could make a reapeater out of them for my vechical. My goal is to be able to talk to my mobile repeater that will in turn transmit over the 50watt radio other than my portable which is 5watt. I have an older model uniden and older model motorola. i know i would need to purches a duplexer (at least i think i would unless i put 2 antennas on my truck) but anyway, if anyone has any ideas on making on that would be grand. Thanks, Nick
[Repeater-Builder] mdc1200 decoding help
I posted a similiar topic a while back but I can't remember what exactly some advise was gave. I need to find a mdc1200 decoder to either build or relativly cheap such as on ebay. I have a repeater that uses several Motorola radio's using MDC to ID there self. I've searched and found a couple made by Control Signal and found out there outrageous. Is there any off brand's or ebay searches I could do to help me out??? Thanks
[Repeater-Builder] Re: mdc1200 decoding help
One of the guys here had written some C code that runs on a PC that you could use.. think you plug the RX audio into the sound card. If you want, I can dig up the e-mail. I think I saved it. A hardware solution would be to get one of the Motorola desktop MDC units. They have a LED display on it. Don't know the model #, but could probably find on e-bay. Tim --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, agrimm0034 agrimm0...@... wrote: I posted a similiar topic a while back but I can't remember what exactly some advise was gave. I need to find a mdc1200 decoder to either build or relativly cheap such as on ebay. I have a repeater that uses several Motorola radio's using MDC to ID there self. I've searched and found a couple made by Control Signal and found out there outrageous. Is there any off brand's or ebay searches I could do to help me out??? Thanks
[Repeater-Builder] Re: mdc1200 decoding help
If you could dig up that email, that would be great. You can either repost on here or email that directly to me. Thanks --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, tahrens301 tahr...@... wrote: One of the guys here had written some C code that runs on a PC that you could use.. think you plug the RX audio into the sound card. If you want, I can dig up the e-mail. I think I saved it. A hardware solution would be to get one of the Motorola desktop MDC units. They have a LED display on it. Don't know the model #, but could probably find on e-bay. Tim --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, agrimm0034 agrimm0034@ wrote: I posted a similiar topic a while back but I can't remember what exactly some advise was gave. I need to find a mdc1200 decoder to either build or relativly cheap such as on ebay. I have a repeater that uses several Motorola radio's using MDC to ID there self. I've searched and found a couple made by Control Signal and found out there outrageous. Is there any off brand's or ebay searches I could do to help me out??? Thanks
[Repeater-Builder] Re: mdc1200 decoding help
Here is the original response the link. Good luck!! Tim agrimm0034 wrote: Hi. I'm looking to build a MDC1200 decoder for my repeater to monitor the activity. Anyone else tried to construct one or can help me out? Thanks You may be interested to know about a C library I wrote. See http://www.matthew.at/mdc/ Requires the ability to capture audio samples and feed them to the library. It is also not that difficult to port this to run on a PIC microcontroller using a single bit for audio input. Matthew Kaufman --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, agrimm0034 agrimm0...@... wrote: If you could dig up that email, that would be great. You can either repost on here or email that directly to me. Thanks --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, tahrens301 tahrens@ wrote: One of the guys here had written some C code that runs on a PC that you could use.. think you plug the RX audio into the sound card. If you want, I can dig up the e-mail. I think I saved it. A hardware solution would be to get one of the Motorola desktop MDC units. They have a LED display on it. Don't know the model #, but could probably find on e-bay. Tim --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, agrimm0034 agrimm0034@ wrote: I posted a similiar topic a while back but I can't remember what exactly some advise was gave. I need to find a mdc1200 decoder to either build or relativly cheap such as on ebay. I have a repeater that uses several Motorola radio's using MDC to ID there self. I've searched and found a couple made by Control Signal and found out there outrageous. Is there any off brand's or ebay searches I could do to help me out??? Thanks
[Repeater-Builder] Repeaters and Water Towers
Hello, Has anyone had experience with repeaters at water tower sites now that homeland security is involved? I would like to hear your experience. Thanks Mike KC8FWD
Re: [Repeater-Builder] mdc1200 decoding help
Could always use WinMDCD. Joe M. agrimm0034 wrote: I posted a similiar topic a while back but I can't remember what exactly some advise was gave. I need to find a mdc1200 decoder to either build or relativly cheap such as on ebay. I have a repeater that uses several Motorola radio's using MDC to ID there self. I've searched and found a couple made by Control Signal and found out there outrageous. Is there any off brand's or ebay searches I could do to help me out??? Thanks Yahoo! Groups Links Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.387 / Virus Database: 270.13.38/2274 - Release Date: 07/31/09 05:58:00
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Re: mdc1200 decoding help (private message)
He posted it. If you do anything with it I'd be interested. I'd love to have a MDC decoder that I could plug into a scanner. Mike WA6ILQ At 01:42 PM 08/20/09, you wrote: If you could dig up that email, that would be great. You can either repost on here or email that directly to me. Thanks --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, tahrens301 tahr...@... wrote: One of the guys here had written some C code that runs on a PC that you could use.. think you plug the RX audio into the sound card. If you want, I can dig up the e-mail. I think I saved it. A hardware solution would be to get one of the Motorola desktop MDC units. They have a LED display on it. Don't know the model #, but could probably find on e-bay. Tim --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, agrimm0034 agrimm0034@ wrote: I posted a similiar topic a while back but I can't remember what exactly some advise was gave. I need to find a mdc1200 decoder to either build or relativly cheap such as on ebay. I have a repeater that uses several Motorola radio's using MDC to ID there self. I've searched and found a couple made by Control Signal and found out there outrageous. Is there any off brand's or ebay searches I could do to help me out??? Thanks Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeaters and Water Towers
Homeland security, as a plan, has an influence in almost everything these days. However, the department of homeland security usually only suggests guidelines for the municipalities to follow. In our area, the local government owns the water tank and is responsible for its operation and security. If amateur radio is on good terms (via ARES or other support function) with the local government, they may accomodate you. Keep in mind, water tanks can be quite difficult to outfit with a repeater system especially if nothing else like cellular is already located on it. Depending on the tank design, there may not be a shelter to put equipment or electricity if its filled by pumps elsewhere. There may be no way to even mount an antenna and they wont let you weld or drill in it. Check over the logistics thoroughly before even bothering to ask. However, a tank is a great ground plane and our digipeater does quite well from ours. 73 Chris-KC4CMR --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, kc8fwd kc8...@... wrote: Hello, Has anyone had experience with repeaters at water tower sites now that homeland security is involved? I would like to hear your experience. Thanks Mike KC8FWD
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Repeaters and Water Towers
Around here, it raised the cost of tower rental which caused all the local PD/FD/etc traffic to move to the water towers! JS kc8fwd wrote: Hello, Has anyone had experience with repeaters at water tower sites now that homeland security is involved? I would like to hear your experience. Thanks Mike KC8FWD
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeaters and Water Towers
Hmmm, We've put up satellite receivers on state towers within 10 miles of the Whitel House with no interaction or interference from Homeland Security??? Maybe because we're using GOV. towers were everything is already regulated and controlled. We had a lot of paperwork to fill-out but it was worth the time and effort. Good Luck, dave wa3gin www.w4ava.org - Original Message - From: ccour79992 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 5:22 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeaters and Water Towers Homeland security, as a plan, has an influence in almost everything these days. However, the department of homeland security usually only suggests guidelines for the municipalities to follow. In our area, the local government owns the water tank and is responsible for its operation and security. If amateur radio is on good terms (via ARES or other support function) with the local government, they may accomodate you. Keep in mind, water tanks can be quite difficult to outfit with a repeater system especially if nothing else like cellular is already located on it. Depending on the tank design, there may not be a shelter to put equipment or electricity if its filled by pumps elsewhere. There may be no way to even mount an antenna and they wont let you weld or drill in it. Check over the logistics thoroughly before even bothering to ask. However, a tank is a great ground plane and our digipeater does quite well from ours. 73 Chris-KC4CMR --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, kc8fwd kc8...@... wrote: Hello, Has anyone had experience with repeaters at water tower sites now that homeland security is involved? I would like to hear your experience. Thanks Mike KC8FWD
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB-224 Matching
The oxidation problem was what I was trying to avoid with my wrap and clamp scheme. I just use galvanized hardware to clamp the extension since it is an aluminum to aluminum connection (no dissimilar metal) to the 224 element. Oxidation of the screw and nut are not in the contact path so it does not matter. Also, the clamp connection is at the highest impedance point on the dipoles, so again, it is not a high current point, so the clamp scheme does not carry much current through the clamp. Not drilling holes in the existing antenna was also a goal, as I have modified several antennas on site with a tower climber doing the install. Keeps it simple! 73 - Jim W5ZIT --- On Thu, 8/20/09, tahrens301 tahr...@swtexas.net wrote: From: tahrens301 tahr...@swtexas.net Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB-224 Matching To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, August 20, 2009, 10:16 AM Hi Jim, That's what I was looking for! Do you have any oxidation/connectio n issues where the tubing is wrapped around screwed together? Perhaps drilling a hole through the original element for connection might be better. Just wondering. Thanks for the tip!! Tim W5FN --- In Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com, Jim Brown w5...@... wrote: I have modified several of the 155 mHz center frequency DB-224 antennas to the ham band. I found that it takes a 2 inch extension to each end of each dipole to move them down. My mod was done empirically by taking a single dipole and hooking it to an analyzer and finding the original center frequency to be ~ 155 mHz. With the 2 inch extension added to each end, the center frequency moved down to 146 mHz. I did not have to modify the harness. I make the extension out of a scrapped TV antenna with rolled tubing elements. I flatten the tubing so that it can be wrapped around the dipole at the center point of each end and put a single screw through the wrapped flat portion of the TV tubing to clamp it to the dipole. When all assembled, I measure the distance to the end of the tubing from the 224 dipole and cut the extension to 2 inches. This moves the center frequency of the completed DB-224 mod down to 146 mHz from 155 mHz. 73 - Jim W5ZIT
[Repeater-Builder] need info on old SSC Inc. Encoder/Decoder boxes
I'm looking for some info on these old Solid-State Communications, Inc. encoder/decoder boxes that I need to change tones in - the decoder decodes two-tone and bumps the encoder to encode the same two-tones into the base station it's connected to. The model numbers are: Decoder - #224BY-3 / Encoder - #237AY-1. I've figured out how to move the encoder tones up to where I need them, now I just need to move the decoder to follow along. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Reply here or reply direct. Thanks bunches! - Adam -
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Repeaters and Water Towers
We put a repeater in the equipment room right under the water tank about 150 ft above the ground back in the 70's. It is a great environment since the water in the tank is a great heat sink. It assumes the average temp of the outside air (integrates the temp over months at a time) and keeps the air temp in the equipment room very cool in the summer and warm in the winter. The repeater is still operating on this tank. The only problem we had was when the city decided to sand blast the tank and did not let us know. The dust was over an inch thick on every horizontal part of the repeater, and was inside our shield boxes (tiny holes, but the crap sifted through). They bought us some new circuit board assemblies for the transmitter and receiver and we installed them in the old shielded boxes. We did manage to clean up the duplexer without having to tune it again. Be sure to keep up with any maintenance on the tank to make sure this does not happen to you - 73 - Jim W5ZIT --- On Thu, 8/20/09, kc8fwd kc8...@hotmail.com wrote: From: kc8fwd kc8...@hotmail.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Repeaters and Water Towers To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, August 20, 2009, 4:03 PM Hello, Has anyone had experience with repeaters at water tower sites now that homeland security is involved? I would like to hear your experience. Thanks Mike KC8FWD
[Repeater-Builder] Re: mdc1200 decoding help
Thanks for all the help. I just have tried the MDC from antistatic, and it works like a charm. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, MCH m...@... wrote: Could always use WinMDCD. Joe M. agrimm0034 wrote: I posted a similiar topic a while back but I can't remember what exactly some advise was gave. I need to find a mdc1200 decoder to either build or relativly cheap such as on ebay. I have a repeater that uses several Motorola radio's using MDC to ID there self. I've searched and found a couple made by Control Signal and found out there outrageous. Is there any off brand's or ebay searches I could do to help me out??? Thanks Yahoo! Groups Links Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.387 / Virus Database: 270.13.38/2274 - Release Date: 07/31/09 05:58:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Need a TLD-2601A PA
I have never worked for a radio company. Was in the US Navy for 22 years. 73 Glenn WB4UIV At 08:20 AM 8/20/2009, you wrote: I remember going to the Glenayre paging company for training years ago. I saw that the factory had stripped off the gold plate on all the PA transistors before attaching them to the board. This was critical for a PA that stayed key-down for hours, or even days. The spare part transistors were also shipped with the gold removed, but were very expensive to purchase because of this extra work. Now I know what the problem was called, gold embrittlement. Thanks, 73, Joe, K1ike PS; You aren't the Glenn that worked a Glenayre, are you? Glenn Little WB4UIV wrote: Desolder the flat gold plated transistor leads. Clean the black residue at the gold - tin interface. Resolder the transistor leads after removing any gold left by tinning the lead and removing the solder a few times. Gold embrittlement is very common. 73 Glenn WB4UIV Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeaters and Water Towers
We have a repeater at a water tower site and they are concerned that they can get in trouble if they let us have access.It has been there for six months.I am just taking over getting it to run at par.They just don't want to get in trouble with homeland security.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeaters and Water Towers
I worked for local government for almost 35 years, retiring last year. We had both municipal water and electric departments. There was absolutely no homeland security involvement with our utilities. Sounds like your municipality is feeding someone a line. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: kc8fwd kc8...@hotmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:14 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeaters and Water Towers We have a repeater at a water tower site and they are concerned that they can get in trouble if they let us have access.It has been there for six months.I am just taking over getting it to run at par.They just don't want to get in trouble with homeland security.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeaters and Water Towers
From what I understand from talking to people who work for water authorities in my particular area, the fenses and gates must be in good order and access must be restricted (whatever that means). Having said that, my friend WX4MOB was just given permission to put his repeater on one of the local water authorities tanks free of charge. - Original Message - From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu Aug 20 20:27:02 2009 Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeaters and Water Towers I worked for local government for almost 35 years, retiring last year. We had both municipal water and electric departments. There was absolutely no homeland security involvement with our utilities. Sounds like your municipality is feeding someone a line. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: kc8fwd kc8...@hotmail.com mailto:kc8fwd%40hotmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:14 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeaters and Water Towers We have a repeater at a water tower site and they are concerned that they can get in trouble if they let us have access.It has been there for six months.I am just taking over getting it to run at par.They just don't want to get in trouble with homeland security.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeaters and Water Towers
Mike, our local DHS/Emergency Management office actually suggested and helped negotiate our ham repeater into a local power plant. Now, security was very tight (no cameras, not even cell phone), background checks, and we were always escorted and monitored, but both the power company and DHS/EM were very helpful and saw the usefulness of a backup communication system and community service. Mike - AA8K kc8fwd wrote: We have a repeater at a water tower site and they are concerned that they can get in trouble if they let us have access.It has been there for six months.I am just taking over getting it to run at par.They just don't want to get in trouble with homeland security.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeaters and Water Towers
That's pretty much what we have here as well. We do have a formal contract with the county that spells everything out, but in general the water authority guys know who's allowed to be there. I've been maintaining our system on that tower for about 6 years and I think I know all the water guys. Most of them stop by the shack to talk whenever they come out (and I'm sure they're checking up on me as well). We have a daisy-chain lock system and the one time that somebody bypassed my lock, the water guys were out in a very short time to unlock their lock for me. They were also very responsive when I called about a power outage (blown circuit breaker inside the pump-house due to a lightning strike on the tower). partially because we're on the same circuit as the beacon lighting on top of the tower. (They were happy I let them know that power was out and the beacon had gone dark.) Same thing when they hit our power cable with a backhoe. it was repaired within 4 hours of the accident. We do have a good relationship with the county, the city, and the EMA. Our ARES program is growing by leaps and bounds and the county is very happy to know that we're here to help. Building that relationship over the years and providing a little bit of public service has gone a LONG way with keeping out happy home on the tower. BTW, in another community about 30 miles from here, the city BEGGED us to put a repeater up. They gave us a spot on the tower, including a DB-224 and feedline. They also gave us a spot in their shack and we get free power. Needless to say, I jumped through hoops getting a repeater installed there. 73, Mike WM4B _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of NORM KNAPP Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:56 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeaters and Water Towers From what I understand from talking to people who work for water authorities in my particular area, the fenses and gates must be in good order and access must be restricted (whatever that means). Having said that, my friend WX4MOB was just given permission to put his repeater on one of the local water authorities tanks free of charge. - Original Message - From: Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com To: Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu Aug 20 20:27:02 2009 Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeaters and Water Towers I worked for local government for almost 35 years, retiring last year. We had both municipal water and electric departments. There was absolutely no homeland security involvement with our utilities. Sounds like your municipality is feeding someone a line. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: kc8fwd kc8...@hotmail. mailto:kc8fwd%40hotmail.com com mailto:kc8fwd%40hotmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:14 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeaters and Water Towers We have a repeater at a water tower site and they are concerned that they can get in trouble if they let us have access.It has been there for six months.I am just taking over getting it to run at par.They just don't want to get in trouble with homeland security.
[Repeater-Builder] Re: DB-224 Matching
Perhaps drilling a hole through the original element for connection might be better. Uh, I wouldn't drill holes in elements. I did drill small holes in each of four elements years ago and within a year all four elements had cracked right where I drilled. Laryn K8TVZ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: mdc1200 decoding help
WinMDCD uses my library to do the decoding... So it should give similar results to rolling your own using that. Matthew Kaufman (Sent from my iPhone) On Aug 20, 2009, at 5:39 PM, agrimm0034 agrimm0...@yahoo.com wrote: Thanks for all the help. I just have tried the MDC from antistatic, and it works like a charm. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, MCH m...@... wrote: Could always use WinMDCD. Joe M. agrimm0034 wrote: I posted a similiar topic a while back but I can't remember what exactly some advise was gave. I need to find a mdc1200 decoder to either build or relativly cheap such as on ebay. I have a repeater that uses several Motorola radio's using MDC to ID there self. I've searched and found a couple made by Control Signal and found out there outrageous. Is there any off brand's or ebay searches I could do to help me out??? Thanks Yahoo! Groups Links --- --- -- Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.387 / Virus Database: 270.13.38/2274 - Release Date: 07/31/09 05:58:00 Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeaters and Water Towers
I agree very smooth on my last one Sent from my iPhone Ray Kalbfeld Cell: 786-267-7555 Office: 305-831-1488 Direct Connect(Nextel) 159*499019*26 On Aug 20, 2009, at 6:04 PM, WA3GIN wa3...@comcast.net wrote: Hmmm, We've put up satellite receivers on state towers within 10 miles of the Whitel House with no interaction or interference from Homeland Security??? Maybe because we're using GOV. towers were everything is already regulated and controlled. We had a lot of paperwork to fill- out but it was worth the time and effort. Good Luck, dave wa3gin www.w4ava.org - Original Message - From: ccour79992 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 5:22 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeaters and Water Towers Homeland security, as a plan, has an influence in almost everything these days. However, the department of homeland security usually only suggests guidelines for the municipalities to follow. In our area, the local government owns the water tank and is responsible for its operation and security. If amateur radio is on good terms (via ARES or other support function) with the local government, they may accomodate you. Keep in mind, water tanks can be quite difficult to outfit with a repeater system especially if nothing else like cellular is already located on it. Depending on the tank design, there may not be a shelter to put equipment or electricity if its filled by pumps elsewhere. There may be no way to even mount an antenna and they wont let you weld or drill in it. Check over the logistics thoroughly before even bothering to ask. However, a tank is a great ground plane and our digipeater does quite well from ours. 73 Chris-KC4CMR --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, kc8fwd kc8...@... wrote: Hello, Has anyone had experience with repeaters at water tower sites now that homeland security is involved? I would like to hear your experience. Thanks Mike KC8FWD
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeaters and Water Towers
Water towers I have had so Experince with as I am employed by motorola more than 28 years Most water towers are a good location and are regulated by local government. And since they are already listed in FAA for the height a modification paper for Adding antenna to location is usually very easy Hope this is of some help Sent from my iPhone Ray Kalbfeld Cell: 786-267-7555 Office: 305-831-1488 Direct Connect(Nextel) 159*499019*26 On Aug 20, 2009, at 5:22 PM, ccour79992 kc4...@arrl.net wrote: Homeland security, as a plan, has an influence in almost everything these days. However, the department of homeland security usually only suggests guidelines for the municipalities to follow. In our area, the local government owns the water tank and is responsible for its operation and security. If amateur radio is on good terms (via ARES or other support function) with the local government, they may accomodate you. Keep in mind, water tanks can be quite difficult to outfit with a repeater system especially if nothing else like cellular is already located on it. Depending on the tank design, there may not be a shelter to put equipment or electricity if its filled by pumps elsewhere. There may be no way to even mount an antenna and they wont let you weld or drill in it. Check over the logistics thoroughly before even bothering to ask. However, a tank is a great ground plane and our digipeater does quite well from ours. 73 Chris-KC4CMR --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, kc8fwd kc8...@... wrote: Hello, Has anyone had experience with repeaters at water tower sites now that homeland security is involved? I would like to hear your experience. Thanks Mike KC8FWD
[Repeater-Builder] Squelch action on 10 m FM
Adam, Ten meter FM requires some different approaches mostly due to HF propagation characteristics and less importantly, general HF background noise. 1) When sigs are propagated via the F2 layer (the most common kind of ionospheric propagation, after sporadic E-layer), we all know they suffer from fading and distortion. These occur because a signal takes many slightly different paths on its journey to a distant receiver. These paths take many different routes which results in various time delays among them. They wind up really mangling, or helping, one another, depending on their relative time delays which lead to various phase shifts among them. E.g. 180 degrees of relative phase shift between 2 sigs = cancellation. This multipath propagation is what causes selective fading (phase distortion). The resulting distortion can get quite awful when using AM but really terrible on FM, which is much more susceptable than AM to multipath. You can see multipath in action on a tv set using a rabbit ear antenna: It's called ghosting. Also can hear it on a car FM broadcast receiver in built up areas, as brief repeated bursts of noise and distortion as you drive. 2) We know that FM receivers use a noise-operated squelch circuit. It's based on the fact that as FM sigs get stronger than the noise distortion, their output quiets. Noise-operated squelch cts. take advantage of this--they open when the signal is quieted by a certain, user-adjustable amount. Note that FM quieting is proportional to signal to noise ratio, not just signal strength alone. However, we don't want our squelch to respond to any voice modulation, which runs up to about 3-4 kHz. So, the squelch samples the discriminator (not de-emphasized yet) output above 3-4 kHz (to about 6.5 kHz, in a 5 kHz deviation system), where there _should_ be only some higher audio-frequency energy that sounds like white-noise hiss. Here's where 1) and 2) come together: Multipath propagation of FM signals during deviation peaks fills the audio spectrum _above_ 3-4 kHz with a TON of noise and distortion. Now our sacred squelch area (3 to 6.5 kHz) is filled not just with hiss but loads of modulation-related products. Looked at closely, multipath distortion on an FM signal will make a signal appear to be heavily over-deviated! (It does an analagous thing to AM sigs, producing what sounds like (is, actually) over-modulation. Bummer. The poor squelch, unless carefully designed, will close on deviation peaks, even more than talk down or squelch clamping due to excessive high modulating frequencies/high deviations will. Even an undeviated carrier under conditions of multipath will show some extra distortion. Due to the above, the Micor lovely dual-action squelch is seeing supersonic (squelch spectrum) crud on just about all ionospherically propagated signals. Have you noticed that ground wave signals do NOT have this problem with the squelch? It's conceivable that less hysteresis would help your situation. I'd also explore moving the supersonic audio bandpass around some, keep the upper limit the same but raise the low limit somewhat. Note that supersonic noise does not extend much beyond about 1/2 of the IF bandpass. You could put an audio spectrum analyzer at the output of the squelch noise amp, before rectification, to see what freq's are present during various conditions, e.g. sigs with without multipath. It would be interesting to sit down look at the squelch noise amp bandpass ct. of as many FM rx's as you can. It's usually quite simple, one or two sections of high/lowpass RC circuits, sometimes a single RLC+C filter. Find the -3 dB points. Perhaps the Micor's low end is set a bit too low. It's a compromise between having sufficiently sensitive squelch action and no squelch clamp down due to over-deviation multipath.Tough choice. BTW, the less the deviation, the harder it is to design reliable squelch circuits. It was easier in the +-15 kHz deviation daze. The supersonic audio spectrum will be different for other tx deviation/rx IF bandwidth situations. For example, the olde Motorola Sensicon tube-type receivers (remember--18 tubes a big Permakay block IF filter) could be wired for either +-5 or +-15 kHz use; most of the changes were in the squelch area. (I converted a few myself. ) --John WB0EQ/VE6 Alex, You most likely need to change a few resistors and maybe a cap or two in the squelch circuit of the SpectraTac's A/S card. The components will be near the M7716 chip. If I recall correctly, some of the parts involve the chip's timing, while others tailor the discriminator audio to compensate for the variations in white noise between the bands. A few years back I took a 70MHz SpectraTac chassis and replaced the 70MHz RF/IF board with a 147MHz receiver, and I had the opposite effect - before
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeaters and Water Towers
As long as it is pre existing approved there is no issues. Have fun with your new GMRS system Sent from my iPhone Ray Kalbfeld Cell: 786-267-7555 Office: 305-831-1488 Direct Connect(Nextel) 159*499019*26 On Aug 20, 2009, at 9:14 PM, kc8fwd kc8...@hotmail.com wrote: We have a repeater at a water tower site and they are concerned that they can get in trouble if they let us have access.It has been there for six months.I am just taking over getting it to run at par.They just don't want to get in trouble with homeland security.
[Repeater-Builder] Re: DB-224 Matching
Hi Jim, thanks for the words on corrosion, and Laryn... aah, the voice of experience! No holes will be drilled!! Thanks to all. I believe that will be the easiest way to make it work. Tim W5FN --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, larynl2 lar...@... wrote: Perhaps drilling a hole through the original element for connection might be better. Uh, I wouldn't drill holes in elements. I did drill small holes in each of four elements years ago and within a year all four elements had cracked right where I drilled. Laryn K8TVZ
