[Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor Pin Gunk b
Hi Group, Before I retired, the two-way shop I worked for would get Stabilant 22 from our local NAPA store. It came in a kit (cardboard tube) with a bottle of Stabilant 22 and swabs. I'm not sure if it was diluted or not. The price 10 years ago was about $38. We used it on full duplex 800 MHz Johnson radios on the synthesizer shield cover to stop the desense. Worth every penny, and it cure an ongoing problem with the Johnsons before we read an article in MRT magazine. Cheers, Ed Re: Micor Pin Gunk Posted by: Eric Lemmon wb6...@verizon.net wb6fly Sat Sep 4, 2010 11:13 am (PDT) Tom, Motorola does not now, and never has, recommended DeOxit or any other contact enhancer gunk besides Stabilant 22. Up until just a few years ago, Motorola specified Stabilant 22A, under part number 1180369E78, which is a mixture of pure Stabilant 22 and isopropyl alcohol. Today, Motorola sells a kit under part number 1180384V93 which comprises a 5 ml bottle of pure Stabilant 22, an empty 15 ml bottle, and some tiny swabs. The user then puts 2.5 ml of the Stabilant 22 into the 15 ml bottle and adds 10 ml of 99% isopropanol to make a working solution of Stabilant 22A, or adds 10 ml of pure ethanol to make a working solution of Stabilant 22E. Either solution is extremely effective if applied wet to clean connectors immediately before mating. It is also effective in curing intermittent contacts in card-edge connectors in PCs and electronic instruments. The alcohol solvent is essential for the product to work; undiluted Stabilant 22 is ineffective. Drug-store isopropyl alcohol, aka rubbing alcohol, should not be used since it is diluted with water and will interfere with Stabilant's action. The 1180384V93 kit is sold by Motorola Parts for about $47, but is sufficient to last for years. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Tait T800 Series II
niteviser wrote: Ed, The tuning pin is the FM pin of the 12.8MHz module. There were several 12.8 MHz references some with 3 pins and then some with 4 pins which used the half rail to set the frequency mid point. It was quite acceptable to program to the closest frequency on the Eprom and pull the reference either by altering the voltage or adjusting to get the offset. It is still then 1ppm stable. Can you tell me which PCB version you have 220-01398-??, I'll she what I have available. niteviser I don't have any of the -26 transmitters. It is more for my understanding of how they are doing things (where they bring out the tuning voltage on the DB25 or is it using the option DB15, etc.) and what is required to fully modify a -26 to a -20. Ed Yoho W6YJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Tait T800 Series II
niteviser wrote: OK Ed, I have 2 files showing the PCB details with -26 variant info. They frequency reference is still kept totally internal. If higher stability or external reference is available, the internal is removed and a mini coax socket fitted to have a cable connected to have an input on the rear panel. I will put the pdf files in the files section. Look for T857 220-01398-02_-04.zip. Al (niteviser) Al, Thanks for the PDFs. Can you tell me where/how the FM (tuning voltage) is brought out on the -26? I looked and both the -02 and -04 variants show the FM pin on the VCXO tied to 2.5V and AC coupled to REF-MOD. For the life of me, I cannot find a DC path that would allow for external frequency shifting. If the -26 still has the resistive divider and nothing else loading the FM pin, just ignoring the tuning voltage path should work fine (as a -20). Other than that, it appears only a few resistor and capacitors are different from a -25 to comply with frequency mask compliance and these would need to be changed anyway to make it a -20. Ed Yoho W6YJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Tait T800 Series II
niteviser wrote: Hi Ed, I have read the info again and it's a bit confusing. In the -26 variant the IC700 reference is 539-00010-55 and the standard is 539-00010-50. But there were different devices used under the 539-00010-50 number an 'old' one by NDK and a 'new' one made by Rakon. The 'new' one only uses 3 pins and the FM pin is not fitted or needed. So if the 2.5V is varied to pull the resonance and still have full adjustment swing it would not work. The variance is only by fitting another value resistor on the divider, not applying anything from external. As you say it can still swing on the adjustment alone. Sorry for leading you astray. I'll have to stop answering Emails at 2AM and get some sleep instead. Al Al, No problem. Your 2:00 am replies are at least as coherent as my mid-day replies. Somehow I got it in my mind the -26 was able to be frequency warped externally. As it isn't, the rest is pretty straight forward. Ed Yoho W6YJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Tait T800 Series II
Ken Arck wrote: At 10:10 AM 8/13/2010, Steve wrote: Hi the T800,s both series one and two are great, series one uses eproms series two is an eeprom programmed using a single data line via an rj11 skt on the front and rear. In the UK a series two sells for around 400ukp a low band series one for around 200ukp. ---Thanks for the input Steve. The one I was looking at is supposedly a new demo and the guy wants $975 for it Ken Ken, The other concern with it is it has a wide band receiver (T855-20) and a narrow band transmitter (T857-26). I am not familiar with the -26 and cannot find much info on it beyond USA only and used with QuasiSync systems (Tait's version of simulcast). Modifying a -25 to -20 is pretty straight forward, but I don't know what is involved with the -26. Ed Yoho W6YJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Tait T800 Series II
niteviser wrote: Hi Ed, The differences I see between the -25 and -26 are minor. Caps and resistors in the Low Pass Filter audio stage and a different 12.8Mhz reference with a voltage tuning pin, where the standard didn't have it. The specifications of the reference are same otherwise, 1ppm -20 to +70. If you are going from -25 or -26 to -20, just change the components to the -20 values. Yes, they were defined changes for FCC, according to the book. niteviser Aha. Any chance of a PDF with the -26 documentation? What pin on the DB25 is the tuning pin brought out to? I also assume the voltage tuning pin needs to be tied to a stable reference. The series II schematic shows the FM pin (VCXO adjust) tied to a divider from +5V (not the most stable reference point). Thanks, Ed Yoho W6YJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply
Scott Zimmerman wrote: I've had enough of this guy. He's gone. You're all welcome. Scott - List Co-Owner Scott Zimmerman Amateur Radio Call N3XCC 474 Barnett Road Boswell, PA 15531 Thank you... Ed Yoho W6YJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help Needed (Guidance and advice) tuning a DB Products Duplexer
Josh wrote: Ok so here's what I've got (I think) http://www.n2ckh.com/FORSALE/REPEATERS/DUPLEXERS/DB4076/DSC02678.JPG Hamvention special, 4 cavities, appears to be a DB Products 4076 family unit. My bench tools: HP 8924c w/ Spec Analyzer and Tracking Generator. My problem - existing set of cans is tuned for 460~mhz. I need to bring them down to 443/448.It was my understanding that they would have dual adjustments - one for setting the band pass frequency, one for setting the reject frequency. Sounds simple. Except under the 'covers' there is nothing else to adjust... So are they just single frequency pass or notch filters? So thats the first question - The second question is - ok , so if they're just single frequency filters, why can't I spin them 'into the right range' as easily as I thought I'd be able to do I've tuned a couple of motorola micor filters on the spec analyzer in the last couple of days, mostly made sense and was smooth as silk... However, after messing with the first can, I'm confused. Moving the adjustment certainly changes the properties of the notching - but it didnt really move the bandpass around... It mostly changed the shape and depth of the notching - not the frequency. What knowledge am I missing - I'm an amateur :) Yes I've seen the 'how to tune db products duplexor' doc - but it talks about dual controls, which apparently I don't have. Did I buy a piece of junkola? Teach me obie-wan. j Josh, The large nut tipped rods in the center of each cavity are the pass adjustments. Loosen the locking nut at the bottom of each tuning rod and turn the shafts clockwise to set the pass responses where you want. Be sure to keep them set high and low as they are labeled. Once the pass is where you want it, tighten the clamp nuts back down. Then remove the small round covers between the N connectors on each cavity and use a small screwdriver or metal tipped tuning tool to _carefully_ put the notches where they belong. Put the covers back on and enjoy. Be sure to put a termination on the side you are not tuning. Ed Yoho W6YJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Fwd: DB4379UHF combiner
skipp025 wrote: ? If he can disconnect the output of the cans from the antenna adaptor then he can split it into two separate 2 channel units. He might have to remount two of the cans in a separate chassis to eliminate any mutual coupling as necessary. Wayne Cornick IE Communications Inc. I.E. remove the N-way T and replace it with two Ts. From each T off to their respective transmit antenna. Don't understand the remounting statement though. Ed Yoho W6YJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] LinRepeat = linux repeater controller software
walscobry wrote: I found references on the web to a repeater controller software for linux but can not find a working download for it. Called LINREPEAT ??? Any links to working downloads? or info on on other repeater control software? Thanks, Bryan KJ4QZJ Bryan, WRT other packages, you might want to look at: http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/cqinet/index.php?title=Linkbox-url http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thelinkbox/ It is both a Linux repeater control system and also VoIP linking. Ed Yoho W6YJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor UHF Repeater Base 9.6 vdc current requirement?
DCFluX wrote: In that case Just a straight 7809 or 7810 also would not require isolating the tab and can be mounted straight to the metal chassis. If it were me, I'd just use a 9 or 10 volt three terminal regulator (7809 or 7810) and skip the whole LM-317 or diodes in the ground leg deal. It only serves to make the circuitry more involved , harder to mount, and for NO advantage whatsoever. Kevin Custer Folks might consider using an LM2940-9 or LM2940-10 (or another LDO regulator) instead of the 7809 / 7810 as the dropout voltage is much lower (0.5V on the 2940 versus 2V on the 78xx typical). This would allow regulation to continue down to an input of 10.5 (-10) or 9.5 (-9) volts. The 7810 will lose regulation at around 12V and the 7809 at around 11V input. Not overly important if the system is being powered from a regulated supply, but if via batteries.. Ed Yoho W6YJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor UHF Repeater Base 9.6 vdc currentrequirement?
Eric Lemmon wrote: Or, how about putting old linear technology behind us, and embracing the LM2576T-ADJ switching buck regulator? You can buy this puppy ready-made for about $14: http://tinyurl.com/yhma5h5 Just change the 8200 ohm resistor to fix the output voltage. The LM2576T-ADJ is rated at 3 amperes. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY I would be cautious about using a switching regulator without also providing proper EMI/RFI suppression. Without it you may cause _lots_ of grief for your site neighbors. The switching solution is much more efficient, but at a higher complexity / construction cost to do correctly and quietly. Ed Yoho W6YJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] 85VAC to 12 VDC?
AJ wrote: We've been given the opportunity to setup a remote receiver at the end of local local cable television provider's plant on the hill to help with coverage. Powering is the only issue we're running in to - currently the only power available within 6 pole spans is the 90 V AC plant power across the CATV coax. They've offered to cut in a power inserter at this location to feed up to 4 amps of 90 VAC to us (roughly 85 VAC at that point in the plant) - what is out there for a reasonable cost effective solution to convert this to 12 VDC? This stub of plant does not have RF across it, nor will it any time soon (RF removed when fiber backbone was overlashed on the same pole line). Our first concern was leakage but that shouldn't be an issue. 73, AJ, K6LOR AJ, Although a bit crude, a simple solution that will allow you to use a normal 110VAC to 12VDC power supply is to get a small autotransformer to boost the voltage back to 110VAC. Or you can make your own by wiring a 110VAC/24VAC transformer up as a boost autotransformer (secondary is placed in series with the 85VAC hot side). Ed Yoho W6YJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Monitoring Positive Ground 48 to negative Ground 0-5
Chuck Kimball wrote: Yes, trying to monitor the local -48 Power system, and solar charging system with my APRS digi +12VDC that accepts 0-5VDC input. Chuck Probably the simplest would be to use an opamp as a X 0.1 inverting amplifier: 10K --/\/\/\/\-- | | 100K| |\ | -48v ---/\/\/\/\-|-\ | | |-- to controller 0 to 5v input gnd--|+/ |/ The scale factor will be -10:1 on your controller (ie a reading of 4.4V would mean -44 volts at the battery). If there is any possibility of losing opamp power while connected to the -48 volts, you should also place a Schottky diode from the opamp -input to ground (cathode to opamp and anode to ground). Ed Yoho W6YJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Yaesu FTR-2410A tuning
Paul Holm wrote: I'm recrystalling this unit and am working on the TX. The first part of the tuning procedure states to monitor a circuit point with a VTVM but there is no test point to connect to. Worse, the only way to physically get a connection to this point is to completely disassemble the TX, which doesn't make much sense to me. Maybe the problem is with me. Is anyone familiar with these things? Thanks. 73 Paul - KC0HST Paul, It has been many years since I played with a 2410, but IIRC you will need to take the TX top cover off and then bend Q3/Q2003 over a little bit so you can make contact with the base lead. Not very user friendly to say the least. Ed Yoho W6YJ
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Experience of Helical / heliax duplexer for 6m
Hi Cruizzer I build a 6m repeater 10 years ago, 2 yrs on air, till lightning bolt toasted it. First tried spilt antennas. Lousy performance. Tried adding coax 1/4 wave stubs, but were too broad. Then built 6 cavity hybird ring helical in paint can duplexer. Worked, but tuning drifted due to temp change effecting mechanical size and shape of paint can. You could hear them expand and make a boink noise and the tuning was off severely enough to cause high insertion loss. My next effort was the coaxial heliax stubs. 4tx, 4rx, put into a plywood box, and wrapped in aluminum flashing. Stood up vertically. Think of a pack of cigarettes, 2 rows of 4. Worked like a champ with a homebrew dual 5/8 vertical. I used ceramic multi turn trimmers to tune the series coupling, notch depth / width. The lighter the coupling, the sharper the notch, but the less depth. I used same style trimmers to tweak parallel resonance of the stubs. 73 and good luck! Ed N3SDO
[Repeater-Builder] 2 meter Heliax Duplexers. Anybody try?
Gentlemen I am brainstorming about constructing a portable - temp use - Pelican Case portable 2m repeater using the 6 meter Heliax duplexer concept. I had built a 6m duplexer for .5 mhz split using this method 12 years ago and it worked quite well. I have built a single cavity 2m notch filter for APRS use, so I believe the concept can work. Has anybody tried building a 2m duplexer using this method that would do a 600khz split? Advice, suggestions? 73 Ed N3SDO
[Repeater-Builder] Spectrum UHF Repeater SCR Crowbar circuit activating during TX
Having problems with a SPECTRUM 4000 UHF repeater that the voltage regulation works ok on RX, but when you kick it into TX, the SCR fires and blows the fuse or frys the resistor. This is the newer version power supply board that has the current limit control on it. We replaced the SCR and .25 ohm dump resistor, and it still triggers. I watched it trigger 2 times last night with a digital meter on the circuit and saw no overvoltage contition, at least not what the dmm registered. Theory: Could a bad cap be letting RF back into the crowbar circuit, causing the SCR to trigger from the RF rather then DC? Please Advise Ed N3SDO
[Repeater-Builder] Re:N3SDO antennas / 6m collinear / Jpole
Im confused on the J-Pole calculations. I calculate mine was 3/4 y = 13.36' (About 14 feet, tip to mast) Phasing U = 4.45 feet, with a 8.91 foot stinger off one leg of the U. John, you wanted to know what I built, best from memory 10 years ago, with fresh calculations. What I made is a supersized Ringo Ranger II. 5/8 over 5/8 with 1/2 wave phasing, with ground plane 1/2 wave below. The donor was a 5/8 CB antenna that had the coil fried, but tapered tubing to nearly the exact length. I calculated 11.13 feet for each 5/8 wave segment. I used a fiberglass ski pole yard sale (2 for $1) along with fiberglass electric fence posts to make the center insulator and Plus sign shaped horizontal support bar for the hairpin phasing loop. I used aluminum radio shack wire for the phasing loop, 8.91 feet long, folded into a hairpin, spaced 1 apart on plastic milk jug spacers, then siliconed to the wire and spacers onto the support bar. Wound phasing hairpin into a @ looking circle. I wrapped 3 or 4 turns around each element end, then clamped with Stainless hose clamp. I fed it with a coil about a 1/4 wave of copper wire, wound on a mason jar, with coax center tapped 1 turn up from ground end at bottom of coil. Was supposed to be a first starting point, got lucky worked so good I never changed it. Provided a DC ground. I used about 1/2 wavelength (rf length internally) about 5.88 feet in RG8 coax, to the ground plane. Fed with 80' of RG8. Absolutely tops on 52.525 FM!!! After the lightning hit, 8 feet of aluminum wire was never to be found. Only a 6 chunk 150 feet away in the neighbors driveway. I suspect the hairpin made a whopper of a magnetic field just before the wire melted making it push away from itsself. (best theory I got) Good luck!
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Tait T800 Tx Microphone Pinout
tait700 wrote: --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, ki4vdp ki4...@... wrote: Hello Chris, What model T-800 repeater are you working with. I should be able to help you. Gary Thanks Gary, The Module is T856 UHF 400-512mhz. I assume that the Gnd in the Mic goes to the shield on the plug but i am a little dubious about taking a chance with the other two terminals. This module is not mine and letting the smoke out if i get it wrong could be a little embarrassing :-) Thanks for your reply, Regards, Chris S. On the schematic, the mic jack is wired: 1. gnd 2. mic in 3. ptt Can't say the ring is 2, but you can be sure by measuring the voltage on pins 2 3. The audio in is AC coupled and does not have any bias voltage on it. The PTT line is tied to +9V via a 10K pull up resistor. Ed Yoho W6YJ
[Repeater-Builder] Daniels MT-3 information
Does anyone have either a manual or at least the Channel Designation Table for the VT-3 and/or VR-3 low band MT-2 series radios? Thanks, Ed Yoho W6YJ
[Repeater-Builder] Re: DC Ground Lightning Protection / Concrete Electrode
I'm going to disagree with the following posting: If the tower is bolted to galvanized pipe that is embedded in concrete of which a significant amount is in contact with soil, you have a concrete-encased grounding electrode which is hard to improve upon. It is not likely that a ground rod would be worthwhile, since damp concrete (concrete in intimate contact with soil at grade level) is a fairly good conductor, and such a footing or foundation has hundreds of times the surface area of a ground rod. I have read Ericsson specs for cellular tower installation in that disagrees with the previous statement. Standard concrete without conductive enhancing materials can crack, pop or crumble if subjected to a direct lightning strike if ground rods are not properly installed. The water contained within the concrete will vaporize instantly causing the concrete to fail. There are types of conductive concrete mixes or additives that can be used, but the most common practice is to use a ground rod from each leg with a copper wire bonded to each tower leg. Our mfg building at work is made from steel I-Beams into concrete. I have noticed each I-Beam has its own ground connection. The strap is bolted to the beam about 1 above the concrete, then disappears into the concrete, and suspect there is a ground rod going into the soil beneath the concrete piling, but that's just a theory, as I dident see it before the mud was poured. Ed N3SDO
[Repeater-Builder] Software for FT847 Pseudo Spectrum Analyzer
Does anybody have, or know of, a software program that will allow a Yeasu FT847 to function as a software controlled spectrum analyzer? I was thinking about building a Poor Mans spectrum analyzer, and realized I have a high end rig that should be able to do something similar. I searched, and found a bunch of CAT programs, but nothing doing graphic Spectrum sweeps. I cobbled something together last sunday in Liberty Basic, that sweeps VHF freqs in 5khz steps, reads the S-meter and graphs the results. It worked much better then I expected, but I'd rather not reinvent the wheel if there is already a prog out there with this function. Ed N3SDO
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Help with power supply
Charles Checkout the Astron page on the repeater builder website. There is a lot of info on general linear supplies using the LM723 regulator chip. You should be able to change the zener reference diode, and tune it down to 13.8v and deliver the same current. ***Danger, notice here *** You will NOT have the 13.8v overvoltage - crobar protection without changing that circuit also. You will have whatever it had at 28v. In my experience, regulator transistors seldom fail open, they often short, delivering the full transformer output into the crowbar circuit, Which if it fails to crowbar, frys your precious ham rigs. This supply will probably have 35 volts or more at the caps, even under load. If you dump 35v into your 13.8 rig, it will not survive!!! It might burst into flames!! If only the output voltage is lowered, the regulator transistors are going to dropping more voltage, and will get MUCH HOTTER!!! You will be dissipating 3 times more heat then it would have at 28v. Fans!! Several of them! My theory, ( without seeing this supply ) 120v input to transformer, transformer output 35v, bridge, Caps, 35VDC, regulated down to 28v. The transistors are dropping 7v. 7v @ 15a = 105 watts of heat. If you just tune the voltage reg down to 13.8, you will still have that 35vdc from the rectifier. The transistors are now dropping 21.2v 21.2 @15a = 318 watts of heat. That might be too much dissipation per transistor, and cause them to fail fast. You might gain an advantage by changing the 125 volt input to the 220v option. This will lower the voltage on the transformer secondary. You should still get around 17.5v or more at the secondary/rectifier-caps, which will reduce the heat generated in the regulator transistors. I use a junker automotive foglamp (free from junked truck) for load testing of unknown powersupplies. It pulls about 5 amps, and is tolerant of over voltage conditions and even runs on 12v AC. 73 Ed N3SDO
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Sinclair dipole array premature failure (noisy)
Paul, One test I have not noticed listed is if you've tried the Sinclair while it was not attached to the tower (and a reasonable distance away from anything that could affect it). Ed Yoho W6YJ Paul Kelley N1BUG wrote: There's nothing crazy about that idea Nate! I get creative thoughts when sleep deprived too. :) I had been thinking the transmitter might be doing something funny. I don't have easy access to a spectrum analyzer, but I think I've ruled out spurs as the primary cause? Correct me if my logic is flawed. I did some tests before I pulled the Sinclair off the tower. With the Sinclair and another antenna on the tower, here is what I found: RX TX on Sinclair SEVERE noise, 10 to 40+ dB RX on other ant, TX on Sinclair moderate noise, peaks to 10+ dB RX on Sinclair, TX on other ant... mild noise, nil to maybe 5 dB RX and TX on other ant... maybe traces of noise??, barely detectable RX and TX on other ant, Sinclair removed from tower... no noise detected... dead quiet I think this suggests something in the Sinclair is generating noise, and that even when transmitting into another antenna it picks up enough RF to make some noise? You wouldn't believe how many pages of notes I have on various tests and experiments over the last year or so... I don't even know what's in there any more! I was hoping to get up to the site today to do a brief test duplexed into each of the other dipoles pulled from the Sinclair, but no go. Maybe tomorrow. Paul N1BUG
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: TASMA 70 cm band coordination
raffertysec wrote: It strikes me as very odd that you insist on keeping this on a Yahoo Group that is nationwide instead of allowing the locals to go to a neutral place.. You don't make a dime off of the advertising here, so what does it matter? I referenced SCAROA two by URL oprior to commenting to you. You even replied to one message. http://scaroa.org. SCAROA has well over 100 repeater owner members that are able to speak with qanonimity until they are ready to speak in their real voice. Most send PM's back and forth but it is a start. This discussion does not need to be on a natiowide group or even a subset of that group. Why do you claim ownership of a topic that you want gone anyway? Take it to SCAROA. They have been working with the ARRL and the NFCC directly. I respectfully ask the moderator to close this thread. (Kevin and Scott - please forgive the off topic post) I am not sure where the well over 100 repeater owner members comes from as the SCAROA membership page has a grand total of eleven members - seven of which are TASMA board members that appear to have joined today (likely to see what you have been talking about) and have never posted there. Discounting the TASMA board members, that leaves a grand total of four members. Of those four, one is listed as not being a repeater owner. Unless my math is wrong, that leaves three independent repeater owners as members. Looking at the few posts there (shall I say rants), it would appear whomever is posting has a negative / odd /twisted perspective of repeater ownership. The repeater-builder-coordination group has 35 members. The last posting was in December 2007. Before that, there were three posts in January 2007. It is a nice idea, but for whatever reason has not been well accepted by repeater owners. Neither of the groups above seem to be a viable place to get the issues heard and discussed by a large number of repeater system owners. I would guess that many folks who have dealt with any coordination committee in a metropolitan area have had complaints about their local committee(s). Perhaps instead of attempting to start a new / alternative coordination group(s), those that feel slighted should run for office within the current committees and implement the changes they believe would enhance the current methods. Both SCRRBA and TASMA hold elections. No one is stopping you or anyone else from running for office. I'm confident there are things within both committees that could be done better / more efficiently. But considering the number of systems they each have purview over, I'm not sure what you or anyone could do better (and still hold a full time job). Much of the current discussion of TASMA taking over the 440 band from SCRRBA could be stopped permanently if Bob or any of the other TASMA board members would state unequivocally that they are not planning, discussing, nor thinking of doing so and would not in the future either. Ed Yoho W6YJ (an evil repeater owner for more than forty years)
[Repeater-Builder] Re: W1GAN and square duplexers aka homebrew duplexer
I built a paint can 6 meter helical coil duplexer, and also built an 8 stub heliax 6 meter duplexer. The mechanics don't seem all that complicated, but getting the rejection and insertion loss you want can take a lot of messing with it. The heliax was difficult to find. Traded a large tray of donuts to a local electrical contractor for 6 pieces of 8 foot long scrap heliax. I found a partial tray of 3-30 pf trimmer caps at a hamfest. The paint cans didn't hold up to temp changes at all.- Drift all over the place like others said. I cut the heliax cable, drilled and installed BNC connectors, selected stubs resonant at the higher frequency then used ceramic piston trimmers to couple the coax to the stub, then a duplicate trimmer to tune stub down to desired freq. I have built a 1/4 wave heliax stub filter using same technique with a 1/4 wave phase line to a T connector to make a band pass filter for 2 meter APRS. I suspect heliax will make a more stable and smaller duplexer then oil cans. Happy tinkering! Ed N3SDO
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Where can one get VB-11 and VB-83 coax?
Jeff DePolo wrote: How are you soldering the braid (or how are you removing the goop prior to soldering it)? Ed Yoho W6YJ I use trichloro, but there are other solvents that would probably work too. --- Jeff Thanks Ed Yoho W6YJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Where can one get VB-11 and VB-83 coax?
Jeff DePolo wrote: Is there a source for VB-11 and VB-83 coax out there? Or is there an equivalent cable from someone else? and of course what were the impedances and constants and the like of them? VB-11 is a flooded-braid version of regular RG11 (VB = VaporBlock in Decibel's vernacular). Be careful when searching for RG11 if you go to look for another vendor - there are two types of coax that often are sold as RG11. The original RG11 is basically a 75 ohm version of RG8. The other, more modern RG11 is sold mainly for CATV/MATV/satellite uses. It's 75 ohms, but is slightly smaller diameter than original RG11. It has a foil+braid shield, unlike original RG11 which has a regular copper braid shield just like RG8. VB-83 is a flooded-braid version of RG83, a 35 ohm coax of construction similar to RG8. RG83 is pretty hard to find. I have some VB-83/RG83 available. I bought some maybe 10 years ago after searching hard to find a source. It wasn't cheap! --- Jeff WN3A Jeff, How are you soldering the braid (or how are you removing the goop prior to soldering it)? Ed Yoho W6YJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Where can one get VB-11 and VB-83 coax?
motarolla_doctor wrote: Ed Yoho ... wrote: How are you soldering the braid (or how are you removing the goop prior to soldering it)? Ed Yoho W6YJ Acetone Cool. Thanks.. Ed Yoho W6YJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Converting a TKR-750/850 for Amateur Usage
No problem. You should find the 840 to be a very nice repeater (except for the wide front end). Ed Yoho W6YJ Adam Feuer wrote: Thanks Ed!! Adam N2ACF Ed Yoho wrote: Adam Feuer wrote: Hi Ed, Thanks for the information. The 840 is very attractive to me because I see that it can be turned down to 250mw to drive my Quintron Amps when I can no longer find any MastrII exciters. What was programming them like out of band? Adam N2ACF Adam, If you have access to KPG47D, the steps are: 1. Make a simple one channel configuration on say 451.250 rx and 456.250 tx with the appropriate PL and other settings. 2. Save it. 3. Open it with a hex editor and go down to address 0830. There you will see the following: FF FF 00 50 12 45 00 50 62 45 XX XX 00 00 FF FF || || || || || || || || RX 78 56 34 12|78 56 34 12 TX RX 451.25000 12 45 34 12 56 50 78 00 TX 456.25000 12 45 34 62 56 50 78 00 4. Replace the numbers with your frequencies and save it. 5. Verify it shows your desired frequencies. 6. Load file into KPG47D and program the 840. You can go back into the file to change settings other than frequency if needed. If you touch the frequencies, it will force them back to 450.000. Ed Yoho W6YJ
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Remote receiver suicide control
Might I suggest a Shunt Trip Circuit breaker. I have used these in cases where power to an entire Mainframe Computer Room, was cut. This was linked to the fire alarm system, and killed the system outlets at the moment the Halon system siren sounded. It will remove your AC power and require a manual reset. I have seen these in 120v single phase, 208 3 phase, and up. $.02 Ed N3SDO
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Converting a TKR-750/850 for Amateur Usage
Adam Feuer wrote: Hi Ed, Thanks for the information. The 840 is very attractive to me because I see that it can be turned down to 250mw to drive my Quintron Amps when I can no longer find any MastrII exciters. What was programming them like out of band? Adam N2ACF Adam, If you have access to KPG47D, the steps are: 1. Make a simple one channel configuration on say 451.250 rx and 456.250 tx with the appropriate PL and other settings. 2. Save it. 3. Open it with a hex editor and go down to address 0830. There you will see the following: FF FF 00 50 12 45 00 50 62 45 XX XX 00 00 FF FF || || || || || || || || RX 78 56 34 12|78 56 34 12 TX RX 451.25000 12 45 34 12 56 50 78 00 TX 456.25000 12 45 34 62 56 50 78 00 4. Replace the numbers with your frequencies and save it. 5. Verify it shows your desired frequencies. 6. Load file into KPG47D and program the 840. You can go back into the file to change settings other than frequency if needed. If you touch the frequencies, it will force them back to 450.000. Ed Yoho W6YJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Converting a TKR-750/850 for Amateur Usage
Adam Feuer wrote: Ken, How about the TKR-840? Any idea if that one will go down via the software and tune without issues as well? Adam N2ACF Adam, I and others are using the TKR-840s here in so-cal. The only down side is the helicals are not narrow as you would normally find in an older GE/Ericsson or Motorola receiver. I don't remember exactly how wide, but IIRC they are about a 15 MHz wide quasi window filter. Here in so-cal we receive low (440-445). Depending on where in the band you need to receive, the helicals may or may not make it that far. They are easily bypassed (part of the unit's design). Ed Yoho W6YJ
[Repeater-Builder] Kenwood TK2180 software
Good Morning Since we have no Kenwood dealers in our area I was wondering if anyone has the programming software and required cables and documentation for the above mentioned Kenwood handheld for sale or know where I could acquire such a copy thanks Ed Flipsen Manager OnionLake Network Services edw...@onionlake.ca 306 344 5283Network Services 306 344 5287Fax 780 847 2200Band Office The views and opinions of this author are not to be misconstrued, used in any covert operation or guaranteed to work any longer than it took you to read this. No warranty is implied or issued.
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Anyone got a Amp-meter Circuit to Repeater Controller for Telementry Readback?
Kevin, are you using a charge controller between the solar panel, rpt, and batteries? Does your controller provide any kind of monitoring of current or voltage or state of charge? The op-amp circuits can also be extended in range beyond the VCC by using a voltage divider on each side of the input voltage. 1k 1% resistors are my fave for this divider type of app. Keeps the impedance low enough you can get good gain on the op amp with reasonable component values. You might want to consider some sort of outboard microcontroller based data logger. It could tell you how many charge hours you are getting, and peak amps, total amps, and at what time of day your batteries reach full charge and when the charge controller begins to dump excess voltage. This can let you know your batteries are doing through the days / nights. I built an APRS digipeater some years back that ran solar. Low power short burst tx, It would fail in late December due to lack of sunlight, and be fine otherwise throughout the year. Enjoy tinkering! Ed N3SDO http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=104168/grpspId=1705063108/ms gId=90412/stime=1238701456/nc1=5349272/nc2=4836040/nc3=5191955
RE: [Repeater-Builder]Zetron 45B
Good afternoon I am looking for the users manual/service manual for the Zetron 45B interconnect . Anyone have one they wish to sell or lead me to a source to get one. I inherited a site that has one but no documentation was found with it thanks EdVA6EF OLCN
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Deviation limiter adjustment on VXR-5000U repeater?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, I give up - where is the TX deviation adjustment on this thing? I've turned just about every pot on the TX control boards yet I'm still getting 10 kHz peak deviation. Does this thing even have a deviation limiter? Bob NO6B Bob, Not sure if you are using the internal repeat function or an external controller via the line input, but this should be what you are looking for: VR2001 is LINE SENSITIVITY VR2002 is LINE MAX DEV VR2003 is LINE OUT LEVEL VR2004 is RPT MAX DEV VR2005 is RPT SENSITIVITY Ed Yoho W6YJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Deviation limiter adjustment on VXR-5000U repeater?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 11/28/2008 12:11, you wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, I give up - where is the TX deviation adjustment on this thing? I've turned just about every pot on the TX control boards yet I'm still getting 10 kHz peak deviation. Does this thing even have a deviation limiter? Bob NO6B Bob, Not sure if you are using the internal repeat function or an external controller via the line input, but this should be what you are looking for: VR2001 is LINE SENSITIVITY VR2002 is LINE MAX DEV VR2003 is LINE OUT LEVEL VR2004 is RPT MAX DEV Thanks for the info, Ed. I'm using an external controller from the manual I gathered that VR2004 was supposed to set the TX deviation, but all it's doing is adjusting the CTCSS encode level. Again, I'm feeding the repeat audio on pin 3 of the accessory connector. According to the manual, this input is supposed to be limited, but perhaps that's another error in the manual. Also noticed that grounding pin 20 doesn't reduce squelch hysteresis, but increases it instead. Bob NO6B Bob, From looking at the manual I have, audio in on the accesory DB25 is on pin 5 not pin 3. Pin 3 shows as a no connect. External tone in is on DB25 pin 4 and the tone level is via VR2006. Any chance it is wired up non-standard / reversed? Ed Yoho W6YJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Deviation limiter adjustment on VXR-5000U repeater?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 11/28/2008 14:18, you wrote: Looking at the schematic, I see that VR2004 VR2003 only adjust the CTCSS level. I verified that these do work in my unit. However, the CTCSS is then summed with audio from VR2002, which I assume is the voice audio (repeat, line, etc.). VR2002 does nothing when in BASE mode (external controller). It only adjusts the level when using the internal controller. At this point I can't see any paths in the schematic that would support this configuration, Oops, scratch that. I mistakenly tagged a 3rd input to the mixer at Q2003-2 as a bias line. It does in fact run out to TX AUDIO IN, bypassing all limiting level adjusting. So the manual description of pin 3 appears to be incorrect. Bob NO6B Wow, There is a dramatic difference between our manuals. In this one, the mix point is on Q2003-4 (pin 13 neg in) and then it goes through Q2003-3 and Q2003-2 that at set up as low pass active filters. This manual is dated 1994 and has E04101002(412S-CT) on the rear cover. In this manual, VR2004 and VR2005 are in the path in both internal and external mode. Ed Yoho W6YJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Master 2 card!!!!!!!!!!!!!!i need one
gervais fillion wrote: hi all how can i search on Ebay for the Master 2 repeater?? i have try many combinaison,,,no luck. i need the SOR card (PL19D417271g1)and the 10 volts regulator card. i need to repair the repeater fast,,,snow will come over the site in 3 weeks max 73/s gervais ve2ckn Gervais, Search for either Mastr or MastrII (no 'E'). Ed Yoho W6YJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeater Antenna
Randy wrote: --- One person says one thing...Like I've said before; I know nothing about Motorola products... If you know nothing about it, you might want to at least do a simple Google search for: super stationmaster 220-3an If you did, you would see $1046.00 is the correct list price for a new antenna with warranty. Most folks who purchase from either Talley or Tessco have accounts with substantial discounts from list. Ed Yoho W6YJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Tait 800 not working
cisfuk wrote: Thanks, I fitted the oscillator on the TX module now L1 shows 19.89v but doesn't change when adjusting the VCO trimmer You should try creating a test EPROM for the TX also with channels every 2.5 MHz and see if it can lock anywhere. As it is pushing 19V into the VCO, it is trying to push the frequency upwards from where it currently is operating unlocked. Ed Yoho W6YJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Tait 800 not working
cisfuk wrote: 455-480mhz all read 19.89v and doesn't change from there when adjusting the vco trimmer and below 455mhz all read 0.54v and also doesn't change from there when adjusting vco trimmer That seems to say the free running VCO frequency is around 453/454 (somewhere between 452.5 and 455). Not sure what to say. The VCO is tuned by varying the voltage across a Varicap diode. The Varicap decreases in capacitance as the applied reverse voltage is increased. From your readings above, it appears to be backwards as frequencies above the free running frequency seem to be requesting the VCO to go up and the opposite on the low side. It almost sounds like the EPROM is programmed incorrectly. Below is some example code plug data. This was generated manually as here in southern California 440 uses 20KHz channels and the series one software only supports 12.5/25KHz channel spacing. WORD 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 REGM M M A A R R R BIT L 0 2 6 0 4 0 4 8 BIT M 1 5 9 3 6 3 7 10 | | | | | | | |M A CH # | | | | | | | | TX FREF=200KHz 004 0E 0A 02 02 0A 00 00 697 34 446.420 TX USING 10 KHZ STEPS 108 0E 0A 0E 00 0A 00 00 698 14 446.860 TX USING 10 KHZ STEPS 208 0E 0A 00 01 0A 00 00 698 16 446.880 TX USING 10 KHZ STEPS 30C 0E 0A 02 00 0A 00 00 699 02 447.380 TX USING 10 KHZ STEPS 408 0F 0A 04 00 0A 00 00 702 04 449.320 TX USING 10 KHZ STEPS 508 0F 0A 06 02 0A 00 00 702 38 449.660 TX USING 10 KHZ STEPS RX FREF=6.4MHz 00C 0A 09 0A 01 00 04 01 619 26 441.420 RX USING 10 KHZ STEPS 100 0B 09 06 00 00 04 01 620 06 441.860 RX USING 10 KHZ STEPS 20C 0A 09 08 00 00 04 01 620 08 441.880 RX USING 10 KHZ STEPS 300 0B 09 0A 03 00 04 01 620 58 442.380 RX USING 10 KHZ STEPS 40C 0B 09 0C 03 00 04 01 623 60 444.320 RX USING 10 KHZ STEPS 500 0C 09 0E 01 00 04 01 624 30 444.660 RX USING 10 KHZ STEPS TX FREQ(MHz) = M * 0.64 + A * 0.01 RX FREQ(MHz) = M * 0.64 + A * 0.01 + 45 You might want to try verifying what is in the EPROM and possibly manually create a channel around 454 (your VCO's free running freq). Also, be sure to power cycle the unit after changing channels. Ed Yoho W6YJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Tait 800 not working
cisfuk wrote: Thanks for your help with that, I took a look at the TCXO for the TX module today but I'm not sure which way it goes because it has 4 pins this is what it says on it NKG3001B 4D21 NDK 12.8Mhz Did you get the RX VCO to lock? WRT the TXCO, there are four holes in the circuit board: 1 N/C 7 GND 8 12.8MHz 14 +5V (pins above if all pins were present similar to a 14 pin DIP) Only the four corner pins of the oscillator are there. 1. Figure out which pin on the board is ground (should be the pin nearest the center of the overall module). 2 Measure ohms from the case of your TCXO to the bottom pins to locate its ground pin. Ed Yoho W6YJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Tait 800 not working
cisfuk wrote: I started too but then the trimmer broke so I'm not sure what to do about that. http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/7035/281hg3.jpg my one only has 3? the bottom right is 5v. You must have had a trimmer that had been glued. Look at your local parts house for a 2 to 10 pF trimmer that is the same size. The missing pin would be pin 1 (no connect). Wherever you have 5V is pin 14 and the far pin is ground. The pin in the middle is 12.8MHz. Ed Yoho W6YJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Tait 800 not working
cisfuk wrote: I've programmed a 27C64Q-200 EPROM with the hex below which should be Channel 0 450MHZ T855-20 but its not working i only have an EPROM in the RX module because the TX module needs the TCXO fitted but shouldn't it still receive on 450MHZ? also the carrier button was stuck on and forward was lit up on the alarm panel could that have caused damage with no antenna EPROM TCXO fitted? If 450.000 is more than a few megs from where the RX was tuned before, it may be the VCO that is the problem. Refer to your service manual WRT adjusting the VCO trimmer capacitor for 10V at the top of L1. The VCO has a limited lock range (+/- 3 or 4 megs). I have found it very handy to have a set of test RX TX EPROMs programmed for every 2.5 MHz across the full frequency range. By inserting the test programs, it is easy to find where the module is currently tuned to and go from there. Ed Yoho W6YJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Tait 800 not working
cisfuk wrote: Thanks for that, I tried it but it just stayed at 0.17v Not sure what you tried: 1. Making a EPROM with channels from 440 to 480 (or perhaps 400 to 440 if it is a -10) in 2.5 MHz steps. 2. Adjusting the VCO trimmer. If it is #2, you will need to first move the trimmer and watch the unlocked frequency. Adjust it for about 2 megs below the desired freq. In this case that would be 403 MHz (450MHz RX - 45MHz 1st IF - 2 MHz). Once that is done, try powering down the strip for a few seconds and then reconnect the power. If you are lucky, it will lock. Then adjust the test point for 10V. One other possibility. The VCOs came with two types of trimmers. A multi-turn Johanson or a half turn trimmer capacitor. Some of the half turn trimmer caps I have come across were glued after being adjusted to the customer frequency. If they were glued and you attempt to move them, they fail internally (turns, but does not vary the capacitance). If they are the half turn style, verify the unlocked frequency is actually shifting as expected when you adjust the trimmer. If you have a T855-20 RX, the VCO should be movable from around 390 MHz to 440 MHz. Ed Yoho W6YJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Tait 800 not working
cisfuk wrote: L1 shows 0.17v upto 460mhz then it shows 460mhz = 2.5v, 465mhz = 9v, 470 = 14.8v, 475 = 3.8v, 480 = 9v Discounting the 475 and 480 MHz readings, it is likely currently centered / tuned for about 466 MHz. It cannot require the same VCO voltage at two largely disparate frequencies. I cannot rationalize why you got the values listed at 475 and 480 MHz. If you create a test EPROM that has 440 through 480 RX in 2.5 MHz steps, then find the center freq (closest to 10V), and then: Move down 2.5MHz and re-adjust the VCO for 10V. Repeat the line above until you get where you want to be frequency wise. Set the exact RX frequency and re-adjust the VCO for 10V one last time. Finally, adjust the helicals for best LO injection and sensitivity. Ed Yoho W6YJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Tait 800 - EPROMS, Manuals, Software
Andreas Papagapiou wrote: Hi Ed and group! I have the manuals for T838 PA, T837 Exciter and T835 RX scanned in PDF form. I uploaded them on Rapidshare. You can download them from http://rapidshare.com/files/141353699/TAIT_T800_Manuals.zip.html The file size is around 69MB. Hope they are the ones you are looking for. 73, Andreas - 5B8AP Andeas, Are these Series I (EPROM) or Series II (PC / EEPROM) manuals? Ed Yoho W6YJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Tait 800 - EPROMS, Manuals, Software
If you want to use the 27C256, you will need to modify the EPROM socket wiring. Manuals for the series I (EPROM version) are not available in PDF as far as I know. The series II (EEPROM) are available in PDF from their web site. If you find the series I manuals in PDF, many folks would love to see them. Ed Yoho W6YJ cisfuk wrote: hi, can i use 27c256 eproms? and are there any other manuals available that are not on taits website also where can i find the pgm800win software. thanks Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Tait 800 - EPROMS, Manuals, Software
Gmail - Kevin, Natalia, Stacey Rochelle wrote: If you want I can scan my manuals for the series 1 Taits for 2mtrs. You will just have to give me some time, have to take the wife to a Russian weekend this weekend. Regards Kevin, ZL1KFM. Kevin, That would be great. Thanks, Ed Yoho W6YJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Tait 800 TXO Module
cisfuk wrote: this is going to be a silly question to you lot but what is a TXO module for Tait 800? thanks Normally it would be TCXO or Temperature Compensated Crystal Oscillator. X is shorthand for crystal. On most T800s, the TCXO is 12.8MHz +/-2.5 ppm. Ed Yoho W6YJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Build your own
Dave Gomberg wrote: I have long considered building my own 2m repeater out of 2 Icom 2100 or 2200 back to back thru a repeater controller, using a good duplexer and a Comet or Hustler antenna. Here are my questions: 1. Nobody seems to like the Comet or Hustler antennas. Why? I have no ice here, lots of wind tho. Ruggedness of the amateur grade antennas versus commercial grade. If you are going into a commercial repeater site, you will likely need to have a certified / insured tower crew install the antenna and feedline. If it fails (and the amateur grade antenna is much more likely to fail than commercial grade), the cost to get the tower crew to do it will most likely be way more than the additional initial cost to have used a rugged commercial antenna in the first place. Also, many of the amateur antennas use small capacitors (another weak spot) internally to tune the antenna. 2. Why is a 50w 2m transceiver, derated to 25w and driving a power amp a bad choice? Or is it OK? Most folks would say you should design the repeater for transmit periods of many, many hours straight. Few amateur transceivers can survive that even at reduced power without forced air cooling over the heat sink. Wide band noise specifications can also be a possible problem with an amateur transmitter. Most commercial sites will require commercial grade equipment. Although not mentioned, the receiver in an amateur transceiver will not have anywhere near the amount of off channel protection that is typically found in a receiver designed for repeater service. 3. Any suggestions on how to keep the duplexer cavities affordable? Not me. 4. Which repeater controller? Or is that a religious question? Somewhat. You also should state what else may eventually be connected to the system to properly determine how complex of a controller is needed. Anything else I should be wary of? Two meters in the bay area is likely to be pretty busy already and difficult to get coordinated. To see how crowded two meters is, visit: http://www.narcc.org/ and look at the list of repeaters already on two meters. You might have a better chance (and cheaper antennas duplexers) on some of the less popular repeater bands (900 or 1200 comes to mind). -- Dave Gomberg, San Francisco NE5EE gomberg1 at wcf dot com Ed Yoho W6YJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Strange BNC-like connector
Bob M. wrote: I've got an old piece of HP test equipment that has a very strange BNC connector on the back. Initially it looks just like an ordinary BNC female jack, and an ordinaryh BNC male connector will start to fit it, but... It has THREE little nibs sticking out the sides at 120 degree offsets, instead of the usual two nibs 180 degrees apart. I've not come upon any other connector like it. A regular BNC male will fit inside but the locking ring with two slots won't mate with the three nibs on the outside of the jack. RF Connectors doesn't have anything like it, and I haven't seen one in the Mouser catalog. I could post a photo if it would be helpful. Anyone have a clue? Bob M. Bob, It sounds like a triax connector. The have an additional isolated shield between the center and outer conductors. Take a look here: http://www.amphenolrf.com/products/triax.asp?N=0sid=48867480942E17F; Ed Yoho W6YJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Strange BNC-like connector
DCFluX wrote: It is not Triax, I generally refer to this connector as 'Security BNC'. Had one in the junk box and put it on a cable and it then I discovered they were incompatible when I went to put it on the radio. There are quite a few Agilent / HP (and other mfgs) instruments that use a triax BNC as shown in the referenced Amphenol link. A couple examples are: HP-4140B Picoammeter / Source. HP 4155C Semiconductor Parameter Analyzer http://www.amphenolrf.com/products/triax.asp?N=0sid=48867480942E17F; The triax connectors and cables are used to allow an inner conductor, a guard shield (or floating return), and an outer shield. This is about the only effective way of making accurate fA measurements (especially in a semi noisy lab environment). If you have an instrument with a triax BNC connector on it, and you measure from the outer metal to the inner gold shield, they are not connected as in a 'normal' BNC. Ed Yoho W6YJ (coming up on 40 years in the semiconductor test field - sigh, must be getting old)
Re: {Disarmed} Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: R100 Programming
Larry, The 'c' is missing in excerpt. Add the 'c' and it will work. http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/r100/r100-programming-manual-excerpt.pdf http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/r100/r100-programming-manual-exerpt.pdf Ed Yoho W6YJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Bad adapter
Hopefully whoever was connected to the RG-58 is no longer a tenant. Ed Yoho WA6RQD
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Tait T855
Trevor Cockayne (M0OML) wrote: Hi All, I am having problems with a Tait T855 receiver module does anyone have a schematic diagram for this unit please. Trev [EMAIL PROTECTED] M0OML Trevor, Do you have the series I (EPROM programmable) or series II (PC programmable)? The series II is available in pdf format. I have not found the series I in pdf. If it is a series I, let me know what section you are having trouble with and I will try to copy that area and get it to you. Ed Yoho WA6RQD
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Tait T855
Trevor Cockayne (M0OML) wrote: Hello ED, It's series 1 but some kind person has sent me a schematic for it. Trevor, Good news. Hopefully it will be a simple fix. Ed Yoho WA6RQD
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Name this PL board.
Ronny wrote: Picture in group files http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/photos/view/e85b?b=4 If you know what it is and/or have the pinout/docs for it I would appreciate an email back. Thanks! Ronny K4RJJ IIRC, it is a Com-Spec TS-32. Ed Yoho WA6RQD
Re: [Repeater-Builder] MSF5000 TEE Cable
Eric Lemmon wrote: Glenn, Yeah, I wonder about what's in the box too, but I suspect it's simply a place to solder the three center conductors together, and the impedance bump is ignored. So, what you need seems to be a TLE5772A Yellow tee cable assembly. Wouldn't it be great if someone who has that cable could make exact measurements of it, just as Charlie KC5OZH did for the TLE5732A Green cable? I'd rather not make up such a cable harness with an N tee and N connectors attaching to it, but I might not have a choice- and it should work. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY It is as you would expect - a simple open area that you solder the three center conductors together and then replace the side cover. We rebuilt a couple of them from lo TX to hi TX a few years ago, but did not keep the dimensions (oops). Ed Yoho WA6RQD
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Possible interference on 146.160
Nate Duehr wrote: On Nov 11, 2007, at 2:48 PM, David Murman wrote: The fix was repeater A to replace a notch filter they had on the repeater to notch out repeater B. That's interesting. On their receiver? Miles away from your machine? Pretty good mix to be strong enough to be seen miles away. Wonder what was doing it in their system? -- Nate Duehr, WY0X [EMAIL PROTECTED] Likely mixing in their transmitter due to no circulator. Ed Yoho WA6RQD
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Reducing power out when on battery backup.
ldgelectronics wrote: Hello All, I have a requirement to install a battery backup system at a local ham repeater. It's a GE Mastr II running about 100 watts. With that much RF power, a couple of 100 AH batteries is only going to last a few hours. My first thought was to add a second lower power RF amp (something like 20 watts or so) and use coax switches tied to the AC mains to switch to the smaller amp when the AC power was out. This should give me a factor of 4 or 5 more amount of time on the backup batteries. The second thought (and here is where I need input), was to bring the variable resistor (R8 on the VHF version) from the 10 watt driver board to a smaller external board. Then add a second variable resistor and a relay to switch between the two. This should give me two independent amp settings that can be controlled by a single control. Is there any reason why this should not work? It would save the cost of the second smaller amp and two fairly expensive coaxial relays. The relay could be controlled from the repeater controller or automatically with just a 12v DC wall wart. Dwayne Kincaid WD8OYG Dwayne, A (hopefully) better method would be to use two RF relays to switch in or out the final stage of the stock amplifier. This will allow the sections to operate with their normal / nominal power settings and give a larger current reduction when in battery mode. relay 1 common to driver output relay 1 normally closed to final input relay 1 normally open to relay 2 normally open relay 2 normally closed to final output relay 2 common to antenna filter assembly This assumes the relays would be energized when in battery mode. A little more drain on the battery, but 99% of the time the coils would not need to be energized. Ed Yoho WA6RQD
Re: [Repeater-Builder] [Fwd: DStar Channel Spacing]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 9/1/2007 16:51, you wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 8/31/2007 11:18, Nate Duehr wrote: FYI. Cross-posting to IllinoisDigitalHam list and Repeater-Builder list from the [EMAIL PROTECTED] list. Thoughts folks? Thanks to Mark N5RFX for doing real testing. Thanks Nate. This is most informative. Now if you throw in the added benefit of DStar's error correction coding, I believe 10 kHz is the ideal channel spacing. Which is good for us here in SoCal because TASMA just voted to create 4 auxiliary link pairs for very narrow band digital systems at 145.585, 145.595, 145.605 145.615 outputs (inputs all -600 kHz). With the 10 kHz spacing, currently only DStar systems are compatible so they're essentially DStar pairs. I expect all 4 pairs to be assigned to 1 or more DStar systems at our next coordination meeting. Bob NO6B Bob, Does this mean TASMA has made the determination that DStar repeaters are not by definition a repeater (as part 97 would define a typical analog mode repeater) and can be operated outside the defined repeater sub bands as an auxiliary station while still performing the functional equivalent of an analog mode repeater? Ed Yoho WA6RQD We do not address the issue of whether D-Star systems are repeaters. We do claim that they fit the definition of an auxiliary station as defined in Part 97.3 (a)(7) therefore may be operated in the 145.50-145.80 MHz segment. Bob NO6B Interesting. Does TASMA consider other digital format (P25, etc.) systems to also be within the auxiliary class? If so and the FCC does not formally disagree, it would create quite a few additional pairs (although they would not be 600KHz splits) for digital audio retransmission as inputs could be below 144.5 MHz and outputs above 145.5 MHz. Ed Yoho WA6RQD
Re: [Repeater-Builder] [Fwd: DStar Channel Spacing]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 8/31/2007 11:18, Nate Duehr wrote: FYI. Cross-posting to IllinoisDigitalHam list and Repeater-Builder list from the [EMAIL PROTECTED] list. Thoughts folks? Thanks to Mark N5RFX for doing real testing. Thanks Nate. This is most informative. Now if you throw in the added benefit of DStar's error correction coding, I believe 10 kHz is the ideal channel spacing. Which is good for us here in SoCal because TASMA just voted to create 4 auxiliary link pairs for very narrow band digital systems at 145.585, 145.595, 145.605 145.615 outputs (inputs all -600 kHz). With the 10 kHz spacing, currently only DStar systems are compatible so they're essentially DStar pairs. I expect all 4 pairs to be assigned to 1 or more DStar systems at our next coordination meeting. Bob NO6B Bob, Does this mean TASMA has made the determination that DStar repeaters are not by definition a repeater (as part 97 would define a typical analog mode repeater) and can be operated outside the defined repeater sub bands as an auxiliary station while still performing the functional equivalent of an analog mode repeater? Ed Yoho WA6RQD
Re: [Repeater-Builder] MSF5000 IPA Problem
w9sl wrote: I'm trying to put an MSF5000 (C74CXB7106BT) on the air and I blew out the IPA final transistor marked 33P54 moto p/n 4882233p54. It's on the RF submodule of the IPA. The IPA is a TLE2500A and the RF submodule is a TLE5920A. These parts are prohibitively expensive from Motorola. Does anyone know a source of used parts? I'd like, in order of preference one of the following: A 33P54 transistor, should be lowest cost alternative. A TLE5920A RF submodule The entire IPA module, the TLE2500A, surely the most expensive option. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance, Don, W9SL Yahoo! Groups Links Don, You might want to give RF Parts a call at: 800 737 2787 Ed Yoho WA6RQD
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Radius M120
jwpauler wrote: Good Afternoon everyone... I have two Motorola Radius M120 mobile radios, each listing a model number of M44GMC20A3AA. As far as I can tell (from looking at the front and what's in RSS) these are two channel units, have the 40W P.A. and include the 16-pin accessory connector. These units are going to be interfaced to a repeater controller for use as a portable repeater, but I'm having a heck of a time finding the correct pinout of the accessory connector. All of the diagrams I've found so far refer to a 8-channel or 16-channel Radius and while those diagrams get me close, some parts are missing. For example, I'm finding COR/COS on the first top and bottom pin on the far right side (I think that's 15 and 16), but no diagram anywhere lists COS at that point. I have checked to see if there is any customization option from within the RSS (like the GM300's) and there isn't. Right now I have the following working: TX AUDIO, PTT, TX GND, RX GND I'm trying to find/confirm: RX AUDIO, COR/COS Can anyone help? Justin Justin, From the M120 service manual: 1 External Speaker Negative 2 Microphone Audio 80mV RMS @ 60% Deviation 3 Microphone PTT 4 External Alarm (not supported) 5 Flat Transmit Audio 150mV RMS @ 60% Deviation 6 Not Used 7 Ground 8 COR Output / Receiver Unsquelched Indicator 9 Emergency Alert Input (not supported) 10Ignition Control Input 11Discriminator Audio Output 600mV RMS 12Not Used 13Switched A+ 0.5A Max 14Remote Hook Switch (ground for PL RX) 15Internal Speaker Positive 16External Speaker Positive Pins 15 to 16 are normally jumpered to enable the internal speaker Ed Yoho WA6RQD
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Radius M120
jwpauler wrote: Jay, Ed All... Thanks for the pinout list and RSS advice, I'll try all of that tonight. In case it matters... The RSS I'm using is for the GM300's, which works great for those radios, I can program the option pins on the accessory connector with this software; when connecting a M120 and using the same software, I have the ability to program the radio, but I loose the option to customize the pins! This doesn't make sense! Again, what I'm seeing doesn't match even the service manual listing below, two of the pins see a 0.00vdc voltage at idle, and a 6.56vdc change when a valid signal is received. Thanks everyone! Justin Justin, It is the audio output IC going to mid voltage when the receiver is unsquelched. The audio output is a bridge mode device and sits at mid voltage when enabled. When muted, it shuts down to lower its power consumption. Try using pin 8 for your COS. Ed Yoho WA6RQD
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Radius M120
jwpauler wrote: Ed, That makes sense, I guess I never thought of the VDC side of the audio... I seem to recall trying pin 8 to no success, but I will try again tonight! Justin Justin, The COS output is open collector. To verify its operation, you can either put your meter on ohms or add a 10K or so pull up resistor to +12V. Ed Yoho WA6RQD
Re: {Disarmed} [Repeater-Builder] Beware - possible scam for 2-way radio equipment
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just received this email, looks like some of the Nigerian scammers are looking to work on some of the people in the 2-way radio business! He's wanting pricing on lots of 2-way radio gear, going to BASCON NIG LTD. (NIG = NIGERIA?) The email has misspelled words, poor sentence structure and punctuation, etc. as are typical in many Nigerian Scam letters. I would expect that the next step would be for the buyer to pay for everything with a Cashier's check for an amount much more than the equipment, and to then send him the difference. LJ The telephone country code is for Nigeria, so your guess looks right on. Ed Yoho WA6RQD
Re: [Repeater-Builder] TS64 as repeater controller
fxbuilder wrote: We purchased a uhf repeater from a local SoCal GMRS dealer and have had problems with it's working correctly since we purchased it. The controller is actually a ComSpec TS64 and the 2 radios are 4 channel maxons. The white wire (rx audio mute) is used to drive the PTT on the transmit radio. What we are finding is that it doesn't keep the repeater in transmit mode, it stutters. Semi weak signal heard by the receiver (almost a clear signal) will cause the transmitter to cut in and out or not work at all. We asked for help from the dealer who promised a new controller but never has delivered (its on the test bench). Anyone have suggestions on what might be causing this problem? Is there there something we need to put between the comspec and the mic ptt line? Or is the ComSpec bad? A different controller could be a possibility but not really in the budget (especially when the dealer said they made a ton of these and they all work great). What are we missing? This is GMRS so no Iders required. Thanks for the help. Craig You mentioned this occurs when a 'semi weak signal' is heard. Does it do the same thing if an extremely strong signal (someone keys up right outside) is present? If the problem only happens with less than very strong signals, you are likely getting transmit energy into the receiver from inadequate isolation within your antenna system. If it does it on all signals (weak or strong), an earlier post mentioning excessive PTT current is likely the problem. Ed Yoho WA6RQD
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Tait T800 Series - Programming?
drbob001 wrote: I noted a few messages regarding programming of the T800 series repeaters (Type I) and was curious to know what programmer people are using for the purpose... I'm getting ready to order a service manual or two, and bring a couple of T800's on-line, so your guidance would be helpful. Whatever you have handy that can program a 27C64A. The Tait software can produce either a .bin or .hex file. The only caveat is the factory software only supports 12.5/25 KHz channel steps. If you are located in southern California, then you will need to do some hex editing to support 20KHz channels. Ed Yoho WA6RQD
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Which coax cables to use with repeaters?
skipp025 wrote: Depends really 9913 is a good cable to use if you run modest lengths, the cable doesn't have to move a lot and you don't run really high power. Here's the dope... The coax is most often a very cost effective choice. The loss for modest length runs is not bad. You should pay serious attention to the coax material and mechanical construction issues for your specific application. The center conductor is often mounted in foam or a hybrid air foam type layout, which has a potential to become problematic. It is possible the center conductor can migrate out of alignment with sharp radius bends and heated center dilectric problems. Because of these two issues I'm not much of a fan about using any foam center coax. There's also a crush problem I'm not going to address in this post... But I have friends who run 9913 with great results. My coax choice before 9913 would be RG-214 mil spec. Stay away from LMR dissimilar metal type coax cables in/for duplex (repeater) operation... cheers, skipp Both 9913 and 9913F use dissimilar metal shield materials. They both use DuoFoil aluminum foil / polyester tape under tinned copper. You may get lucky, but most folks end up with problems. Unless you feel very lucky, 9913 and the LMR series of coaxes should be avoided in duplex applications. Ed Yoho WA6RQD
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Which coax cables to use with repeaters?
Howard Z. wrote: What about LDF4-50A coax cable? Is it a better choice than FSJ4-50B? Howard The FSJ4-50B (1/2 Superflex) is much more flexible and can support tighter radius bends. For in cabinet jumpers it is hard to beat. In most cases, the smaller FSJ1-50 (1/4) or FSJ2-50 (3/8) will be much easier to work with. The LDF4-50A is standard 1/2 hardline and would normally be used to get from the duplexer to the antenna. Ed Yoho WA6RQD
Re: {Disarmed} [Repeater-Builder] Re: Macro Prefix formats for multi site programming
Bob, Both LinkComm, Palomar Telecom (out of biz but still being used and supported by many groups), and a few others that support prefixing / pre-access allow the controller to be configured on a per port basis to accept split and/or combined command strings. They all also have programmable pre-access timeout timers and other methods of killing the pre-access authorization period. The 'box' you describe is site and port specific and is controlled by the pre-access authorization period. If any of the stop pre-access conditions are met, the 'box' reverts to idle. The pre-access characters are user definable (not just * or #) and include all sixteen digits (though using 0-9 would be somewhat limiting for follow on commands) in any combination. Command length is not fixed. End of command entry is determined by controller configuration settings (loss of COS, DTMF inter digit time out, forced execution digit if configured - or combination of these). Ed Yoho WA6RQD [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Guys, Our design team is following this discussion with great interest because it'll definitely influence what we offer in the future regarding controlling multiple sites. I will disclose one bias, however: When the prefix is received the prefix decoder generated a telephone dial tone back down the link. I'm not in favor of split commands -- commands that set up conditions for the next command. Early controllers seem to have favored them; you'd enter a certain code in order to manipulate certain things, and while you're in that particular box, you can't manipulate anything outside of that box. That system is kind of like a tree structure because it's hard to navigate and hard to visualize without a diagram. For example, you could be in some kind of command mode (like message editing) when you get kicked off, interfered with, or locked out somehow, and then like the Hotel California, you need to find the place where you were before. I started building controllers in the 70's and was influenced by the line-by-line programming found in DOS, programmable controller, and machine tool scripts. The carriage return/line feed was the command terminator. That's why the S-COM programming language looks like it does, little changed from the beginning. Each command exists as a complete, stand-alone command, independent of any commands that come before it or after it. If you want more complex commands, or readily changeable commands, you use macros -- a concept introduced to the controller market in my first wirewrapped controllers. In addition to no split commands, in S-COM's programming language the (*) and (#) never show up within a command except as enter and abort, respectively. They have no effect if entered ahead of a command; their only effect occurs after other digits are queued. Requiring them inside commands forces you into a fixed format, stilted kind of thinking instead of a variable-length, freeflowing kind of command structure. When it comes to the fourth-column characters (A, B, C, D), we seldom use them in the code due to the fact that some radios and most telephones don't have them. Customers can use them in passwords and macro names, if they wish. I don't think there's anything in our existing structure that would keep us from prepending other characters for whatever purposes. We'll be looking at all of the various ideas presented here and in the archives. 73, Bob Bob Schmid, WA9FBO, Member S-COM, LLC PO Box 1546 LaPorte CO 80535-1546 970-416-6505 voice 970-419-3222 fax www.scomcontrollers.com See what's free at AOL.com http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF0002000503. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by *MailScanner* http://www.mailscanner.info/, and is believed to be clean.
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Logic Boards for IFR 1600
Hello group Looking for two logic boards for IFR 1600 S service montiors Ed Com/Rad Inc.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Macro Prefix formats for multi site programming
Nate Duehr wrote: DISCLAIMER: I haven't had a chance to try it on a real controller to see if it happens fast enough, so it'll react quickly enough, and my 7K is currently up on a mountain filling in until a few 7330's arrive. (GRIN) Here's a way to do it. I don't know what number of macros you could get away with, but probably enough. I'm too tired to look up the limits and do the math. First off, on all sites... SITECODE12345* does something on a specific site and these macros are always active and programmed separately into specific controllers. Next, set up a hidden start-of-activity macro on all controllers on only the local user port's receiver (RX1) that renames macros stored in parking macros to the local macro commands that users would use locally. The parking macros are unpublished. Example, A12345 gets renamed 12345, and A23456 gets renamed 23456. A12345* (and it's cousin, the renamed 12345* whenever local user activity is present) is a macro that calls the local repeater's SITECODE12345 macro. During local commanding, other repeaters in the network will be listening for the parking macros and won't respond to the command. Only the repeater(s) with active RX1's will respond to the local commands. Then an end-of-activity macro calls a 2nd hidden macro that names all local macros back from their new 12345 to A12345. Now, obviously that leaves a problem... if two repeaters in the network are both keyed on their user inputs when a so-called local command is executed, both will respond. To make this more robust... You tell end users that All commands are available by typing the sitecode and the command on any repeater. However, if you don't want to type the sitecode, press 1* plus the command on your local repeater. In this case, you set up 1* to mute DTMF. Your end-of-activity macro now must both copy the local macros back to parking and unmute DTMF. (In fact, if you do this you don't need the start-of-activity macro at all, but I like that one better. You could have *1 do both setup of the macros and the DTMF mute.) To make this work, the default * as enter key option in the S- Com, must be on. This is so users don't even have to unkey to have the 1* execute. The users don't have to know the preceeding 1* is a separate command. They just know to prefix any local simple command with 1*. If they hit 1* and drop key, the local controller will immediately revert back to only responding to the SITECODE commands, and unmute DTMF, resetting everything back to the state where any machine in the system can respond to either a local or remote SITECODE prefixed command. -- Nate Duehr - WY0X [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nate, Renaming macros whenever the mobile input is active would cause all link command ability to be blocked as the macro numbers the link is looking for are currently non existent. For the majority of the time, this would not be a big problem. If however there is a problem with the mobile input receiver (RX1) on a site from either a failed receiver or a problematic user sending unwanted transmissions, you would not be able to resolve the issue from a distant repeater via the links. Processor load could become significant if you have lots of macros that need to be renamed every time the mobile input COS goes active or inactive. What happens to the poor processor when a signal is picket fencing or a 'fly' decides to intentionally send short on and off transmissions (rapid kerchunking). The whole idea of implementing pre-access or prefixing is to emulate the functionality of the public telephone network command structure (not exact, but similar to the simplicity of dialing a phone). Anywhere you go within the system, dialing a local number (sending a local command) gets connected to a local client (if the number is valid). Access to that same local number from outside the local area code (a different repeater) is accomplished by simply adding the area code (site prefix) to the desired client number (command sequence). Simply adding command prefixing on a per port basis resolves all of these issues. This method also allows all commands to always be available to all ports. Each time the port specific pre access DTMF sequence is received, the following DTMF digits are processed during that specific transmission. Ed Yoho WA6RQD
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Macro Prefix formats for multi site programming
Ken Arck wrote: At 04:38 PM 5/17/2007, you wrote: Arcom's new RC810 supports site prefixing. I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that Ken is originally from Southern California (grin)? ---Actually, our RC210 has supported site prefixing for quite some time too :-) Ken Skip and Ken, That is great news. Not sure how I overlooked the prefixing on the210 when I looked before (time to clean the glasses ). Ed Yoho WA6RQD
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Macro Prefix formats for multi site programming
wd8chl wrote: Ed Yoho wrote: The basic difference is on systems with site prefixing as part of the command structure, different inputs get different command requirements. Using macros to simulate site prefixing is pretty inefficient. As an example, a user wants to enter command 12345. From the main mobile input he would enter ##12345. From down link somewhere if the site prefix was 55, he would enter *#5512345. To replicate this functionality without site prefixing capabilities, the controller would need two functionally equivalent commands (12345) with ##12345 accessible only from the mobile input while *#5512345 being accessible only from the link ports. Each command would need to be replicated (one for the mobile input and the other from the link inputs). If a site has X commands, with site prefixing it would take X + 2 macros (the two are needed to cover the ## mobile site prefixing and *#55 link site prefixing). Without site prefixing, the controller would need X * 2 macros to perform the same task(s). Without site prefixing, the macro requirements double and the controller needs to mask what commands are available on a port by port basis. Users on systems with site prefixing always know that to command the local system with command 12345, they just need to enter ##12345 no matter what site they are currently using. Having site prefixing may not be desired by all repeater owners. For those that do want to use it, it is a major limitation within some controllers and becomes a make or break situation when deciding on what controller will fit their requirements. Ed Yoho WA6RQD Sorry-I still don't get it. First, I've never heard of a controller that needed *'s and #'s at the beginning of a command-any command. But then, there's some not as well known controllers out there. The examples given were not actual commands for any particular system as that would cause future security problems for that system. The * or # could be replaced with whatever non numeric (A/B/C/D/*/#) value that pleases you / the system architect(s). As an example of a reasonably well accepted controller manufacturer that supports site prefixing / pre access based upon port, look at any of the Link Comm products. Their manuals are available for download in PDF format. Why would one care about which port a command is usable at? If they're all different anyway, it will only be recognized by the site you want. For the example of command 12345, users enter 12345 from wherever, and it does what you want it to do on the site you want to do it (we'll say site #1 for the sake of it), because it's not a valid command at other sites. To do the same function at site number 2, say, you program it to respond to 22345, and so on down the line. Then site 2 is the only site that does anything with that command. If you want to do something simple like change the system you are currently talking through receiver's access mode from carrier to PL (or PL to carrier), your methodology would require the end user to memorize a different code for each repeater within the system (for every possible command and for every possible site). Using pre-access allows standardization of control codes within a particular system - regardless of what site the user is currently using. from another post: Thanks for the reply. True prefixing would be optimal as generating multiple macros that accomplish the same task would be a large burden on the controller's macro space. A full macro set per port/prefix could get painful from a resource standpoint. I also don't see why you would need multiple macros to do one task. Commands that don't apply to a particular site are not programmed in. So in the above, 12345 is only programmed into site 1, and 22345 is only programmed into site 2. Yes, if there's a command that would get acted on at multiple sites, it would need to be programmed into the site that need it And what happens when you have lots of sites? Your method requires users to remember 47 separate commands for 47 sites just to perform a simple site related command (turning PL on or off). It also requires that the user always know what the site number they are currently using is to do something simple. I also can't see passing a lot of commands up the line. In-depth programming and higher level control is not something I would want done 3 repeaters away. Turning links on and off, other simple user-type functions, yeah. Turning a transmitter off, ok. But that's just me... Don't get the wrong idea, I'm just saying that what you want can be done just fine, just a somewhat different way of thinking. Jim Your approach works fine with small / limited systems, but becomes unwieldy at best on larger networks. The whole reason for my initial post was to find out if the new S-COM 7330 can / will support pre-access. It does not mean everyone must use pre-access
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Macro Prefix formats for multi site programming
wd8chl wrote: Ed Yoho wrote: Site prefixing (with supervisory lock down commands) is used by every medium to large network I know of. Having both control methods available allows the system management to choose whichever method they prefer. Not having the ability for site prefixing eliminates those controllers for applications where it is desired / implemented as part of the system structure. Ed Yoho WA6RQD The point I was getting at is you can make the macro commands anything you want them to be. If you want a structure like that, just punch it in. There's more then one way to skin afly... -- Jim Barbour The basic difference is on systems with site prefixing as part of the command structure, different inputs get different command requirements. Using macros to simulate site prefixing is pretty inefficient. As an example, a user wants to enter command 12345. From the main mobile input he would enter ##12345. From down link somewhere if the site prefix was 55, he would enter *#5512345. To replicate this functionality without site prefixing capabilities, the controller would need two functionally equivalent commands (12345) with ##12345 accessible only from the mobile input while *#5512345 being accessible only from the link ports. Each command would need to be replicated (one for the mobile input and the other from the link inputs). If a site has X commands, with site prefixing it would take X + 2 macros (the two are needed to cover the ## mobile site prefixing and *#55 link site prefixing). Without site prefixing, the controller would need X * 2 macros to perform the same task(s). Without site prefixing, the macro requirements double and the controller needs to mask what commands are available on a port by port basis. Users on systems with site prefixing always know that to command the local system with command 12345, they just need to enter ##12345 no matter what site they are currently using. Having site prefixing may not be desired by all repeater owners. For those that do want to use it, it is a major limitation within some controllers and becomes a make or break situation when deciding on what controller will fit their requirements. Ed Yoho WA6RQD
Re: {Disarmed} Re: [Repeater-Builder] [Fwd: [SCOM-Controllers] 7330 pricing and other news]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Ed, Do you know if the software will accept site prefixing on a per port basis (similar to Link-Comm or the old Palomar Telecom controllers) ? This is a make or break for many system owners that have multiple sites interconnected. I have always been impressed with the S-COM products except for this limitation on earlier products. I've forwarded your comments to the other guys so we can talk it over. It sounds like something that could be improved a couple of ways, including making the macro names longer. 73, Bob Bob Schmid, WA9FBO, Member S-COM, LLC PO Box 1546 LaPorte CO 80535-1546 970-416-6505 voice 970-419-3222 fax www.scomcontrollers.com Bob, Thanks for the reply. True prefixing would be optimal as generating multiple macros that accomplish the same task would be a large burden on the controller's macro space. A full macro set per port/prefix could get painful from a resource standpoint. Ed Yoho WA6RQD
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Macro Prefix formats for multi site programming
skipp025 wrote: Re: Macro Prefix formats for multi site programming In theory what Ed wrote is a very good idea... but... The fly in the repeater soup is when you need (for more than one reason)to protect the command set from unauthorized commands. Once your problem fly (user) understands the prefix and command structure you're in deep kim-chi all the way through the system. If you live in a large Metro Area you quickly learn about problem users and disgruntled club ex-control operators with dtmf pads and way too much time on their hands. cheers, skipp Unfortunately, flies (disgruntled club ex-control operators) can affect either control scheme equally based on the fly having had access to the control codes (read knowledge of). Problem users without prior command structure knowledge actually have a higher probability of finding a valid DTMF command when pre access / site prefixing is not used as there are likely more sequences that do something somewhere. Either control scheme should be supplemented with supervisory level commands that can lock down sites if / when a fly becomes problematic (and as Skipp said metro areas many times have lots of flies). Site prefixing (with supervisory lock down commands) is used by every medium to large network I know of. Having both control methods available allows the system management to choose whichever method they prefer. Not having the ability for site prefixing eliminates those controllers for applications where it is desired / implemented as part of the system structure. Ed Yoho WA6RQD
Re: [Repeater-Builder] [Fwd: [SCOM-Controllers] 7330 pricing and other news]
Nate Duehr wrote: I haven't seen this cross-posted yet, and since I just love to be a cross-posting fool... Here it is... The S-Com 7330 is basically... here! Yay! Nate (or Bob if he's lurking), Do you know if the software will accept site prefixing on a per port basis (similar to Link-Comm or the old Palomar Telecom controllers)? This is a make or break for many system owners that have multiple sites interconnected. I have always been impressed with the S-COM products except for this limitation on earlier products. Ed Yoho WA6RQD
Re: [Repeater-Builder] [Fwd: [SCOM-Controllers] 7330 pricing and other news]
Jim wrote: Ed Yoho wrote: Nate (or Bob if he's lurking), Do you know if the software will accept site prefixing on a per port basis (similar to Link-Comm or the old Palomar Telecom controllers)? This is a make or break for many system owners that have multiple sites interconnected. I have always been impressed with the S-COM products except for this limitation on earlier products. Ed Yoho WA6RQD I don't understand this myself. When you program a macro for something, you just make sure you use different commands for each site. What's the problem? About the only thing I could see would be the _capability_ to make the macro command more digits, maybe 8? It becomes very cumbersome when you have more than a few sites. My small linked system is currently using five 440 repeaters and two 900 repeaters linked via duplex 420 equipment. Another system I am a member of has approximately one hundred and fifty sites that are linked together. It is much simpler to have a standard command set that is replicated at each site so users who move from one repeater to the next have just one command set to learn. Then when controlling a distant site via the link, the only difference is adding the site prefix to the user's command sequence. Overall, it makes life much simpler. Ed Yoho WA6RQD
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Repeater Controller SSC 836AA
anpap wrote: Hello all, Does anyone have a manual or information on an SSC 836AA repeater controller? It also has the following on the PCB: T-A2-1761-4 if it makes any difference... Also, has anyone configured a TAIT T800 Base Station/repeater for use as a repeater? thanks, Andreas - 5B8AP Andreas, The Tait T800 can be configured to be a stand alone repeater with drop delay and time out timer without any external equipment. It would not have an identifier though. The internal and external jumpers required for internal repeat mode are shown in the manual. Connecting one to an external controller is pretty straight forward if you have a manual (needed for alignment anyway) to properly configure the internal jumpers. The T800s came in a Series I (EPROM programmable) and Series II (internal micro-controller that is PC programmable). Ed Yoho WA6RQD
[Repeater-Builder] Motorola R2001A/HS user and service manuals
Anyone out there got info on a cd or paper manuals for this piece of equipment ?
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Tait 800 Slimline 20kHz Mod ?
Paul Metzger wrote: Hello all, Has anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone who has successfully modified a Tait 800 Slimline to work on 20kHz steps? I have two of them and would like to use them on the 440 Amateur UHF band. Any help would be greatly appreciated ! Paul Metzger K6EH Paul, As stated in an earlier reply, the T800 Series I radios work fine on 20 KHz channels. The only downside is you can not use the factory software to generate the PROM code as it is limited to 12.5KHz channel steps. By changing the reference divide ratio (R) you can use 10KHz channel steps instead of 12.5KHz steps. I am currently using them on 20KHz channels at three sites. If you are uncomfortable with the formulas, let me know the channels you wish to use and I can supply a hex format file with the channel info you need. You would then load the hex file into your EPROM programmer and go from there. The formulas for generating the hex values required are (hopefully this will be readable once posted): TX FREQ(MHz) = M * 0.64 + A * 0.01 RX FREQ(MHz) = M * 0.64 + A * 0.01 + 45 WORD1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 REG M M M A A R R R BIT L 0 2 6 0 4 0 4 8 BIT M 1 5 9 3 6 3 7 10 | | | | | | | | M A CH #| | | | | | | | 0 08 0E 0A 0E 00 0A 00 00698 14 446.860 TX USING 10 KHZ STEPS 1 08 0E 0A 00 01 0A 00 00698 16 446.880 TX USING 10 KHZ STEPS 0 00 0B 09 06 00 00 04 01620 06 441.860 RX USING 10 KHZ STEPS 1 0C 0A 09 08 00 00 04 01620 08 441.880 RX USING 10 KHZ STEPS The synthesizer data for M, A, and R is stored in the right / lower 4 bit nibbles of each byte above. 446.860 TX using 10 KHz steps (R = 10 decimal = 0A hex) R register = 10 decimal = 0A hex (sets 10 KHz TX channel spacing) M register = 698 decimal = 2BA hex lsb msb 0101110101 = 8H + B0H + 200H 1248124812 A register = 14 decimal = 0E hex lsb msb 0111000 = EH + 0H 1248124 To calculate the desired code for 446.86 TX: 446.86 / 0.64 = 698.21875 (the integer portion 698 is the M code) 698 * 0.64 = 446.72 446.86 - 446.72 = 0.14 140 KHz / 10KHz = 14 (the A code is 14) Hopefully that makes sense. Ed Yoho WA6RQD
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Need Tait800 UHF Slimline Documentation Programming
Paul Metzger wrote: It is a T800 Series 1 Slimline which requires the PROMs to be programmed. I need documentation, software, and to find out what hardware (exact models) I will need to acquire in order to program the proms, including cables. All it has is a single rack panel with a T855-20 Receiver, T856-20 Exciter/Amplifier and a terminal strip attached. It has a date on it of October 1996. I need documentation in order to find out how to interface it to a homebrew controller, which will then tie into an AOR Digital Voice modem. I hope to make it into a repeater for the Digital Voice Amateur Radio Association. Any help will be much appreciated ! Thanks ! Paul Metzger KQ6EH Paul, Unless the frequency you are planning to use is a multiple of 100KHz, the Tait Software wont work in southern California (SCRRBA area) as it cannot generate anything except 12.5 or 25 KHz channels and we use 20KHz channels. You will need to find an EPROM eraser and programmer that can program the EPROMS within your units. The formulas for generating the hex values required are (hopefully this will be readable once posted): WORD1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 REG M M M A A R R R BIT L 0 2 6 0 4 0 4 8 BIT M 1 5 9 3 6 3 7 10 | | | | | | | | M A CH #| | | | | | | |TX FREF=200KHz 0 08 0E 0A 0E 00 0A 00 00698 14 446.860 TX USING 10 KHZ STEPS 1 08 0E 0A 00 01 0A 00 00698 16 446.880 TX USING 10 KHZ STEPS RX FREF=6.4MHz 0 00 0B 09 06 00 00 04 01620 06 441.860 RX USING 10 KHZ STEPS 1 0C 0A 09 08 00 00 04 01620 08 441.880 RX USING 10 KHZ STEPS TX FREQ(MHz) = M * 0.64 + A * 0.01 RX FREQ(MHz) = M * 0.64 + A * 0.01 + 45 Here is the pinout for a stock 855rx and 856tx: pin 855 856 1 line out 1 line in 1 2 line out 2 line in 2 3 line out 3 line in 3 4 line out 4 line in 4 5 RSSITX Enable 6 Audio 1 Audio 2 7 Audio 2 Audio 1 8 Speaker CTCSS 9 +13V+13V 10 +13V+13V 11 Gate/COS outOpto-key + 12 COR 1 Opto-key - 13 COR 2 TX key / PTT 14 Ground Ground 15 Ground Ground You will need to locate a manual for the T855 T856 as there are many possible internal configurations possible due to multiple internal jumpers. If anyone has the manuals in PDF form, I do not know of them. Ed Yoho WA6RQD
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Need Tait800 UHF Slimline Documentation Programming
Paul Metzger wrote: Anyone able to help me with manuals for a Tait800 Slimline UHF (T855-20 and T856-20). I also need to find out how to program it and what is required to do so. I appreciate any help, Thanks ! Paul MEtzger KQ6EH Paul, There are two versions of the Tait T800s. Series I and Series II. Series I use PROMs for channel information and Series II use EEPROMs. The older version needs a PROM programmer and the newer version just needs the correct software and a serial interface cable. The newer version's documentation is available in PDF form, but AFAIK, the older is only available in printed form. If you are unsure as to which version you have, remove the top cover and look just forward of where the DB15 is. If there is a 28 pin DIP on a small daughter board, they are series I. If you are going to use these in southern California, due to the 20 KHz channel spacing, if they are series I you will need to use a hex editor to generate your EPROM files as the factory software did not support 20 KHz (only 12.5 25 KHz). Ed Yoho WA6RQD
[Repeater-Builder] Re: coordination question for the seasoned owners
Now the 'rest of the story'... I stand corrected in my misunderstanding of what went on, and apologize for complaining in public when I was in error. Ed Ed Bathgate Manufacturing Test Engineer Marconi division of Ericsson 4000 Marconi Drive Warrendale PA 15086-7594 (724) 742-6575 Fax (724) 742-7177
[Repeater-Builder] Re: coordination question for the seasoned owners
I attended a local repeater coordination meeting WPRC in Butler Pa this past weekend. I was amazed at the amount of argument and bickering the board members did, and seemed to go out of their way to make life difficult for a fellow from a repeater group who travelled several hours to be there. He was there, in person, with documentation, they insisted he dident have the correct information, and refused to even read it.Then the WPRC secretary finally got them to shut up for a moment and read their own mail. Turns out they did have the paperwork in their incoming mail, that they hadent read. He requested a modification of the callsign, and trusteeship. They were not going to fix it. That's just not the way its done Then they chewed on him because somebody else made an error on the paperwork years ago, and instead of just doing a modification, they made him relinquish his coordination, and required him to reapply at the next session. What a pain in the Neck. I see why somebody said about it being an old mans activity, you need lots of age acquired patience to deal with their little kangaroo court. Ed Bathgate Manufacturing Test Engineer Marconi division of Ericsson 4000 Marconi Drive Warrendale PA 15086-7594 (724) 742-6575 Fax (724) 742-7177
[Repeater-Builder] Re: AEA Isopole, Forwarded opinion on performance.
I was offered several for free, both 2m and 220 versions that had been tried at a repeater site. It was claimed that these antennas have an up-tilt to the pattern, and if you have a high rpt site, They overshoot your users in the valleys. If you are down in the valley trying to hit higher sites, They work quite well. $.02 Ed Bathgate Manufacturing Test Engineer Marconi division of Ericsson 4000 Marconi Drive Warrendale PA 15086-7594 (724) 742-6575 Fax (724) 742-7177
[Repeater-Builder] 10 meter split site rpt, eqpt recommendations?
Gentlemen With the recent licensing structure changes, 10m meters is going to be open to tech-minus ops like myself. Im kicking around ideas of a split site 10m FM rpt, with a 2 meter repeater as link / dual band core. I had a 6m rpt up back in 98-2001 that suffered from lack of use until a lightning bolt put it out of its misery. Seems more of the ops in our area have 25w 10m rigs or mobile HF rigs that have 10m FM capability then have 6 meter capability. The equipment availability, along with the longer distance the lower freqs offer makes this a project worth considering. Any suggestions of what kind of gear would be suitable for 10m repeater use? Any tips of do's and dont's for 10m? 73 Ed N3SDO
[Repeater-Builder] Re: VHF Duplexer problem - help?
6 can duplexor won't tune smoothly, generates RX noise... Lightning hit, Yep, its probably flashed over on one of the first cans from the ant, you might have carbon tracks and a twisted/melted cap. Also inspect your connectors, Ts and the coax itsself as a possible source of noise after a lightning hit also. Difficult to tune, if the interconnect coax is supposed to be 1/4 wave length, or multiples, 1/2 3/4... What worked good at 160mhz, will not work good at 146 mhz. Been there, done that! It will do something, but you will have high insertion loss, and your deepest notch for best rx sensitivity will not be real deep. You will not get best performance until you get the correct length coax between cans. Somebody suggested removing the bad can, and running 2+3. That might work if your tx is clean, and you arent trying to run high watts, if the other cans are ok, and coax is tuned right. Try it, it won't cost you anything cept time and some additional hair loss from scratching your head. 73 Ed N3SDO
[Repeater-Builder] Help finding Information
Good Evening Everyone I have an Interconnect Specialists INC FDI-220 Duplex Interconnect .. Anyone on the list have any information on this device,I have googled but no luck so I am hoping someone on the list has or can point me in the right direction for any and all information on this device... Thanks Ed VA6EF
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: VHF Base Sta Antennas
We received the same antenna for a club I used to belong to in 1990 at that time it was a production run type antenna as to whether or not you can get the same one today I guess only Sinclair can tell you Ed VA6EF -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tedd Doda Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 7:41 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: VHF Base Sta Antennas On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 23:51:52 -0500, Com/Rad Inc wrote: Anyone have a lead on Dual Antenna configs similar to the older DB 413 D We have a unit made by Sinclair at one of our sites which has a 310-C4 (UHF) on top of a 210-C4 (VHF). (see attached picture) It was donated to our club, so I don't know if it was a special order, or is a currently available unit. It's up about 130 feet and is REALLY heavy, with a best guess weight of 200 pounds. We had to use a Jeep to pull the rope for the Gin-Pole :) Tedd Doda, VE3TJD Lazer Audio and Electronics Baden, Ontario, Canada Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/433 - Release Date: 8/30/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/433 - Release Date: 8/30/2006 Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Weird Kerchuking Problem
Hi My 2 cents worth Are you using a PL code which is harmonically related to the AC line freq? i.e. 123.0 or 179.9 ? An earlier respondent suggested changing the PL and I concur with this as a good test. Ed Folta Com/Rad Inc - Original Message - From: Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 5:50 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Weird Kerchuking Problem Here's the problem... Every so often (several times in 10 minutes) we are getting a key up of our repeater. Here is what we know... There is no signal coming in on the input frequency. No even a small spike. It is almost like something in the set up is timing and keying, but it is not an exact interval. Doesn't matter is RX tone is enabled in the CAT or not. Here is the setup... Motorola Mitrek trunk mount on 443.275, CAT 250 controller, Com-Spec TS64DS tone board. It has a good 300W 3 can duplexer that is tuned correctly and working well. 75Amp power supply. The cabinet also has an APRS rig in it, as well as a remote receiver for another repeater, and a link radio, but NONE of that is even turned on (and doesn't make a difference when it is). Suggestions as to what to look for...? Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Need Comtegra Board
5 Mar 2006 Greetings Group(s)! I am in need of a Second System Board for the Motorola Comtegra Remote Console. This is the board which creatres I/O for the second system 2/4 wire line connections. 73 ED FOLTA Com/Rad Inc Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re:
25 Jan 2006 Hello Group Looking for a dual section isolator with loads 153.0 Mhz capable Also could use a duplexer - pass reject type if it happens to be attached to the isolator/circulator -- 100 watts - - 5 mhz or greater T to R Price and condx pls 73 Ed Folta Com/Rad Inc YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "Repeater-Builder" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
