[Repeater-Builder] Coaxial Relay
To All: I am still trying to locate a Coaxial Relay with a 12 vdc coil and either N or UHF connectors. Please contact me off net if you have one available. Many Thanks. Fred seamansfh at sbcglobal dot net
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: GE Mastr Pro
They were very good and still are! However, I could not give mine away. I just took 3 stations and a few extra Rx and Tx strips to the dump. They are history now. Fred W5VAY _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Pointman Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 6:15 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: GE Mastr Pro i agree...I have at least 6 of them on UHFeither on the ham bands or business radio...they still work great! de KM3W _ From: skipp025 skipp...@yahoo.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, July 13, 2010 4:52:38 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: GE Mastr Pro Todd todda...@... wrote: Does anyone have any info on moving a GE Mastr Pro repeater from VHF commercial to VHF Amateur? I am curious whether anyone has done it, would it be worth it before I end up parting them out for scrap. I also have about a dozen of the Mastr mobile of the era as well. Todd AE7V Hold that Tiger! Don't scrap the radio if you can help it. Sure the GE Master Pro will pretty much dial right down onto the ham bands with only readjustment and a capacitor or two change in the receiver crystal injection stages. And the Master Pro Receiver works just killer (great) and will still hold its own in rugged location service. s.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: [Repeaters] Looking for HD 440 Yagi
Jeff: Kathrein-Scala Antennas makes good heavy duty yagi and a log periodic antennas with radom and without. I have used them before. They will survive most mountain tops with ice and salt water sprays. They are expensive. Fred W5VAY _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff DePolo Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 11:29 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com; repeat...@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: [Repeaters] Looking for HD 440 Yagi I'll echo most of Dave's comments, and add a few... The MYA's tend to have finicky tuning, and I've never seen one sweep correctly out of the box. Close enough probably, but not optimized either. The BMOY's are broad band, with one model covering 406-440 MHz and another from 440-480 MHz. Maxrad stopped making the MYA antenna that I used a lot - MYA43012 - 12 elements, 430-450 MHz. Now you can only get the 12 element model in 450-470 range :-( I never had much problem tuning up the MYA yagis, but as Dave said, they usually weren't tuned well out of the box. Sealing up the connector is a PITA; I always removed the rear (reflector) element, removed/loosened the hardware to allow the feed to be slid to the rear of the boom, and then proceeded to put my jumper on it and seal it up right before sliding it back into position and tuning it. I'm now buying Sinclair SY307 series and Comprod 430-70 yagis (7 element, 10 dBd each, very close to being clones of each other) at about $140 each. Have about a dozen in service and more in stock for upcoming projects. My only complaint thus far is that they seem to not be consistant on what kind of connector is on the end of the pigtail - some came with N males, some with N females - picky picky. The Antennex gamma-fed UHF yagis are real dogs. The tuning is extremely touchy. Minor changes in placement of the jumper/feedline throw the tuning all over the place, and slight changes in distance from the mast and/or changing polarization will require retuning. The Sinclairs and Comprods are mostly immune to detuning in that regard, and always sweep well across the entire spec'ed range. I bought four of the 12-element models (two silver, two gold) when I found out I couldn't get the Maxrads any more, and they're still sitting in the warehouse, I wasn't happy with them after I tested them. I, too, had/have a lot of the old Larsen's in operation (5 and 8 element), but they don't make the ham splits any more. Although they aren't built as rugged as some of the others mentioned, they've held up pretty well. I just took down two of the 8-element models that had been up on a mountain for about 15 years and, aside from a couple of bent elements from falling ice, had held up pretty well. I replaced them becuase a) they were getting old and beat up, and b) I wanted to replace the feedline runs anyway so I figured I may as well swap out antennas at the same time, one less 200+ mile trip and tower climb to make in the future. I still have four of them at a site that have been up for just about 20 years now and they're still working. --- Jeff WN3A
[Repeater-Builder] 5C ICOMs
Does anybody have a 5C Receive and a 5C Transmit ICOM's on any frequency for the 450 to 470 MHz band in MASTR II, that they would be willing to part with. I plan to send them to ICM to be recrystaled. Please reply off net to seaman...@sbcglobal.net. Fred W5VAY
RE: [Repeater-Builder] 5C ICOMs
Sorry: I have enough 2C and EC ICOM's. Right now I would like 2, 5C ICOMS, Tx and Rx. Fred _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ken Arck Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 4:22 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] 5C ICOMs At 02:16 PM 6/19/2010, Fred Seamans wrote: Does anybody have a 5C Receive and a 5C Transmit ICOMs on any frequency for the 450 to 470 MHz band in MASTR II, that they would be willing to part with. I plan to send them to ICM to be recrystaled. Please reply off net to seaman...@sbcglobal.net. ---I have a couple of 2Cs xtaled up for 441.900T/446.900 . Make me an offer offlist Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcon http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ trollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp. http://www.irlp.net/ net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!
[Repeater-Builder] GE MASTR Professional Equipment
To All: I am going to get completely away from MASTR Pro equipment. If anybody wants anything, contact me off net and I'll see if I have it. Cost very cheep plus shipping. Anything not gone in three weeks is going to the trash. seaman...@sbcglobal.net Fred W5VAY
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: GE MASTR Professional Equipment
Skip: Yes, I Know; The first radio system I designed had 74 Repeaters and over 150 mobiles with some microwave interconnects. I have run out of space, and now I have all MASTR II and Delta's. Fred W5VAY _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of skipp025 Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 11:06 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: GE MASTR Professional Equipment To All: I am going to get completely away from MASTR Pro equipment. If anybody wants anything, contact me off net and I'll see if I have it. Cost very cheep plus shipping. Anything not gone in three weeks is going to the trash. Fred W5VAY That's a shame Fred later down the road you might realize the GE Master Pro Receiver is one heck of a decent unit and still quite usable. The transmitters a bit of a power pig because most of them have tubes in them... but again the receivers are still quite killer (good). Hopefully someone close to you will realize the receivers are well worth having and quite usable for a current project. cheers, s.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: GE MASTR Professional Equipment
Tom: I have 1 High Band (150 - 170 MHz), 3 UHF (450-470 MHz) and 2 Low Band (42-50 MHz) and 2 EP38 Power Supplies. Box full of Parts, small circuit boards, xtal filters, etc. Email me direct if interested. seaman...@sbcglobal.net Fred _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wb6dgn Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 3:02 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: GE MASTR Professional Equipment Wish the shipping was affordable. I'd like one just as a souvenir. At the time it came out, I thought it ran circles around anything else available and, as Skipp and others noted, it's still an excellent receiver. Which band are your radios on? Tom DGN --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com , Fred Seamans seaman...@... wrote: To All: I am going to get completely away from MASTR Pro equipment. If anybody wants anything, contact me off net and I'll see if I have it. Cost very cheep plus shipping. Anything not gone in three weeks is going to the trash. seaman...@... Fred W5VAY
RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers
Jed: I have worked on voting systems from as little as 2 receivers to as many as 36 receivers in a public safety system. The best routing of the voted audio is by fiber optic cable, then microwave, then RF point to point link and lastly and the cheapest by telephone line. If you are using telephone line, be sure all lines are close together in frequency response and time delay characteristics. If not request the telephone company condition the circuits to be close as possible. Also, the newer voters have automatic line leveling circuits built in. These typically work by using the 1950 Hz no signal tone as a reference. Your efforts in adjusting the line send and receive levels is very important to the satisfactory operation of the complete system. Keep the knob twiddlers out! Fred W5VAY _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Charles Miller Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 1:12 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers Jed, The receivers are probable AstroTac receivers. Same as the Quantar, just packaged a little different. The receiver is just what you think. A receiver on the same RX frequency. The unit has a 2 wire and 4 wire output, but only uses the 2 wire for most applications. The unit puts out a tone when in non receive mode, this is called the guard tone. This guard tone goes away when a valid receive signal is received. The received signals audio is then sent out this 2 wire circuit. This circuit takes the received audio from the receiver to the voter and can be many different types, but normally is a phone circuit. The signals come in the voter thru the SQM modules, one for each receiver. This SQM module detects the guard tone and mutes the output to the voter command module. When the guard tone is absent the SQM module measures the signal to noise ratio of the received signal. If more than one signal is being received by the voter the command module picks the best signal and routes it to the output circuit of the voter. The command module is the brains to the unit. The simple explanation. I hope this helps. If you have any more question don't wait to ask. There are many on this list that can help. Charles Miller -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Jed Barton Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 11:31 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers Hey guys, Alright, i've just been giving the responsibility of being the head contact for a commercial repeater, and pretty much in charge of it. It's a damn good machine, a quantar. The one thing i'm not the best at is voting receivers. They only have 2 of them. Here are a few questions, how are they usually connected, i take it there isn't a lot to it, but just trying to learn more about voting receivers. Thanks, Jed Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] transmission is intermittent and voice cuts out with my mc-micro repeater
Not enough information given to draw any conclusion! Fred W5VAY _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mimomeg Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 9:56 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] transmission is intermittent and voice cuts out with my mc-micro repeater Seem to have period where my transmission (voice) cuts out for a few seconds every so often, and the person at the other end can't hear me. On the receiving end,Does anyone have any idea? Thanks in advance,
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Heavy Duty Antenna question....
I have tried DB, Comm. Products, and Antenna Specialist for some Mountain top sites in Montana. None of them held up through the Winter. I finally went to Scala, now Kathrein Scala Division, had them build a tank of an antenna in 1989. To the best of my knowledge they are still in service. Kathrein Scala has a web site and a catalog to view. Good Luck Fred W5VAY _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of batwing411 Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 12:07 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Heavy Duty Antenna question well, i tried to search, but.. alas, sorting thru 1400+ posts just isn't going to work. i need actual use facts on high altitude (11k feet), severe duty antenna selection... i've always been a stationmaster (fiberglass) antenna guy - and never had a problem... but...i've never put an antenna up at this height. i am going to need something good for 150+ MPH winds, ICE, etc. Open to ideas.
[Repeater-Builder] Dow-Key Antenna relay - 12 volt DC coil
I am looking for a Dow-Key antenna relay with a 12 VDC coil. If anyone has one, please contact me off net! Fred W5VAY
[Repeater-Builder] TT Encoder for Mastr II Controller
Does anybody have GE's Data-File LBI-30450? This is a Touch Tone Encoder for the MASTR II Controller. If you do Please contact me Fred W5VAY seaman...@sbcglobal.net. Thank You! PS: There is none on the MASTR LBI list.
[Repeater-Builder] Older Touch Tone Encoder
I am looking for an older Touch Tone Mobile Encoder, BRAMCO (Division of LEDEX in the 70's), Model 6047! This was used with MASTR II mobiles. If anyone has one in there old stuff and is willing to part with it, Contact me off net! Fred W5VAY
[Repeater-Builder] Bird 4275 Signal Sampler
I have for sale a Bird Model 4275 Signal Sampler with adjustable coupling and with either type N or UHF connectors. This can be viewed in Birds General Catalog at: HTTP://www.bird-technologies.com/products/catalogs/1118-BTG-GenCat0010.p df Scroll down to Page 27 in the Catalog. Price - $80.00 Firm Contact me off net if interested! seaman...@sbcglobal.net Fred W5VAY
RE: [Repeater-Builder] newbie looking for info
Start with the ARRL Hand Book; it can be an older dated one! Fred W5VAY _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tetrault Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 1:19 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] newbie looking for info Where would I find a book or list of items I would need to build a repeater. Is there a list of parts and rules etc? I didn't see anything appropriate in the files section. Tnx, Mark AA1OV
RE: [Repeater-Builder] looking for a G.E. desk mate cabinet
Are you wanting a GE MASTR Pro style or a GE MASTR II style Desk Mate cabinet? Fred W5VAY Ponca City OK _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Curtis Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 6:37 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] looking for a G.E. deskmate cabinet Does anyone around south central Missouri have a G.E. deskmate size (or possibly even a tall size) rack cabinet they want to get rid of? Just about done with a repeater project and want to house it. Thanks for the bandwidth. Chris Kb0wlf
RE: [Repeater-Builder] DB-224 patterns on side of tower.
When a 224 antenna is mounted on a leg of a 25G, 45G, 55G towers, the patterns are close to what DB had predicted as allowances are made for the distance off of the leg of the tower. EG: 1/4, 1/2, wavelength, etc. On large face towers anything is possible. As an example I mounted a DB 224 on the face of a Forestry Look Tower per a DB Engineers instructions. There were deep nulls in the pattern. One nul at 5 miles from the tower (You could see the antenna), the repeater would not key up with a 100 watt mobile. Large towers and water towers need to be checked on site for coverage patterns. (We mounted this antenna in Feb. 1966) Good luck Fred W5VAY _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Brown Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 5:47 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] DB-224 patterns on side of tower. Back when we had to submit an antenna pattern in order to get a repeater license for the ham bands, I mounted four elements of a DB-224 directly on one leg of a Rhon 25 tower and mounted the two tower sections on an antenna test pedestal and ran the pattern. With the antenna sections directly in line and pointed away from the tower, we had 9 dB gain in the favored direction, 6 dB gain at plus and minus 90 deg, and 3 dB gain off the back side of the tower. The plot was perfectly round with the 3 dB offset for the center point of the plot. 73 - Jim W5ZIT --- On Tue, 6/30/09, tahrens301 tahr...@swtexas.net wrote: From: tahrens301 tahr...@swtexas.net Subject: [Repeater-Builder] DB-224 patterns on side of tower. To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 2:35 PM Hi Folks, We are putting up the DB-224 on the side of the tower, which is one of those large 3 legged towers. (like you see at microwave telephone sites). I have the DB-products data sheet on the 224, and it has some plots for side mounting on the tower. The plot in question is the 224E (all in line, pointed away from the tower). According to DBprod, it would give the appropriate pattern for our desired area. However, one of the old salts here (who has final say-so) says that you really have to put some left and right angulation on the elements to get that pattern. I guess the real question is how positioning on the side of the large tower affects the pattern - if the elements are directly perpendicular to the tower leg, versus having some rotation on the leg. I'm thinking that we will probably just have to experiment with what we get per old-salt's method see how it works. Anybody have any other ideas? Thanks, Tim W5FN
[Repeater-Builder] GE ICOM 5C
Does anybody have any 5C ICOM's for MASTR II in their junk box that they are willing to get rid of? (Not the large ones used in the PLL Exciter!) I would like to get 8 of them. The frequency is not important as I am going to recrystal them. Let me know off net. Many Thanks Fred W5VAY
RE: [Repeater-Builder] BRAMCO Reeds
Blue is for the receive and red is for the transmit. Fred _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:40 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] BRAMCO Reeds I found a couple of BRAMCO reeds in my junque box today, and can't remember if these are VibraSponder or VibraSender compatible reeds. Part number is A01863 (Tone 141.3). Can anyone remember if these -sponders are or -senders?? Thanks! Mark - N9WYS
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: GE uhf high power
To All: GE Did make a solid state 200 watt UHF Transmitter. They used a 100 watt PA driver to two 100 watt PA's less the 40 watt driver board and then recombined the two 100 watt to get 200 watts out. They sure are not efficient! I agree it would be better to use a 100 watt PA at reduced power. However the 100 watt PA's are rated at 100 watts continuous power output. (That is key down for 24 hours with no degradation in power output). Fred W5VAY (Retired GE Mobile Radio) _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Burkleo Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 12:54 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: ge uhf high power Also as Nate said, GE did not make a high power solid state amp. The Mastr II high power stations that I referred to use a normal Mastr II solid state PA to drive a tube amplifier to acheive the 225-250 Watts on UHF or 375 Watts on VHF. If you are not familiar with high power tube transmitters and working with high voltages, stay away from these. They are not for the faint of heart, and the voltages present can be quite deadly. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com, Joe Burkleo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You might try contacting Larry K7LJ. He posts on here occasionally and I know he had a couple of these the last time I talked to him, but that was a couple months ago. They are more like 350 Watts. Joe --- In Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com, kb4ptj kb4ptj@ wrote: hi i am looking for ge uhf solid state high power 88 splyt 200watts kb4ptj@
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Scanner as repeater receiver?
I would not use them. The front end on a scanner receiver is as wide as a double barn door and all kinds of junk comes through. Fred W5VAY _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jstechnicalservice Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 3:10 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Scanner as repeater receiver? Has anyone used a good quality scanner as a receiver for a repeater and if so, how well did it work? I'm contemplating a Radio Shack PRO-2055 as it seems to have good receive capability and picks up signal better than some of our mobile radios. Jeff Skaggs Concord-Greene FD
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Frequency pair
Your are just going to have to make time. Frequency coordination is a slow process no matter which service you are eligible for. You might start with APCO International to find out if you are eligible under the Public Safety area. If not they can direct you in the right direction. Fred W5VAY (Past Frequency Coordinator for FCCA and Local Govt. ages ago.) _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 8:17 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Frequency pair Sort of on topic... Does anyone know off the top of their head- what it would cost to get a UHF frequency pair from the FCC? We are a small emergency response team with a 501(c)3 status. We have an MSF5000 and a lot of other uhf radios that were donated to us. I just don't have the time to sift through the FCC website right now. Thanks. Bill
[Repeater-Builder] Mastr Professional Strip Covers
I want to locate the station Tx and Rx top and bottom strip covers with the meter plug on the top cover of each for a 150 MHz Tx and Rx and a 450 MHz Tx and Rx. If anybody has these 4 covers and would be willing to pitch them my way, please contact me direct. I do not want the Tx or Rx strips, just the covers that are used in the base station configuration. Thanks Fred W5VAY
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: star washers on db antennas
Not all ACE Hardware stores have a complete line of Stainless hardware! Also be careful of stainless from China. Large size bolts are sometimes mis-marked as to their strength and some stainless is not pure. Take along a good magnet when purchasing stainless products. You can't measure the quality but you can be sure you are buying good stainless without any iron in them! Fred W5VAY _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Glatzel Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 12:17 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: star washers on db antennas You are passing up a great resource, ACE Hardware, they have huge assortments of this tryp of hardware both in METRIC and SAE, of all types of alloys, both steel, aluminum, stainless and copper. Don't overlook it for convience and the ability to pick your own part. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robert - McMaster-Carr is a very good source. Their HQ offices and regional warehouse are in Elmhurst, IL -- within 1 mile of my QTH ... SO I drive over to the Will Call window and pick-up my order the same day (spoils me) !!! However, some itmes are a minimum quantity size of 100. In these cases, I use Small Parts in Florida. http://www.smallpar http://www.smallparts.com/ ts.com/ They have a wide assortment of parts. I can ususally order in single or qty 10 .. which is more reasonable for less used items. Greg w9gb == Robert, Stainless steel lock washers, including the star variety, are very easy to find- you just need to get them from an industrial supplier. My favorite source is McMaster-Carr: www.mcmaster.com [snip] Go to the above Web site, and enter star washers in the find products window. Then select stainless steel and go from there. I have found stainless steel U-bolts, threaded rod, Uni-Strut, and all sorts of oddball hardware there. I'll admit that McMaster-Carr prices are a bit high on some items, but the convenience of ordering hard-to-find items online is worth it. [snip] 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY _ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51734/*http:/tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/ca tegory.php?category=shopping them fast with Yahoo! Search.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Scotchkoat
One method with Scotchkoat, which we used in the Gulf of Mexico platforms cabling. Wrap a good Scotch tape over the cable and connectors tightly extending the wrap 2 to 3 inches over the cable jacket on each side. Then scotchcoat the tape wrap a small portion of the cable covering. Then tape wrap the whole assembly again with a good tape. Now when you want to remove the scotchcoat you just cut a slit the length of the tape wrap and peel off the tape and scotchcoat together. This has worked great in salt water environments for many years. Fred W5VAY _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of skipp025 Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 7:27 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Scotchkoat You guys ever figure out and actually test a solvent that works on Scotchkoat? I've never found a solvent that did a good job... especially after it (the Scotchkoat aka scotchcoat) had a chance to dry. curious minds want to know... cheers, s. Barry C' [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: mekp is the hardner in many body fillers.(peroxide) To: Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 11:41:40 -0500 Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Scotchkoat
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Scotchkoat
Sorry I left the word and out of the second sentence. It should be Then scotchcoat the tape wrap and a small portion of the cable covering. _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fred Seamans Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 9:05 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Scotchkoat One method with Scotchkoat, which we used in the Gulf of Mexico platforms cabling. Wrap a good Scotch tape over the cable and connectors tightly extending the wrap 2 to 3 inches over the cable jacket on each side. Then scotchcoat the tape wrap a small portion of the cable covering. Then tape wrap the whole assembly again with a good tape. Now when you want to remove the scotchcoat you just cut a slit the length of the tape wrap and peel off the tape and scotchcoat together. This has worked great in salt water environments for many years. Fred W5VAY _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of skipp025 Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 7:27 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Scotchkoat You guys ever figure out and actually test a solvent that works on Scotchkoat? I've never found a solvent that did a good job... especially after it (the Scotchkoat aka scotchcoat) had a chance to dry. curious minds want to know... cheers, s. Barry C' [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: mekp is the hardner in many body fillers.(peroxide) To: Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 11:41:40 -0500 Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Scotchkoat
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Remote power monitoring
You get what you pay for! GE and Motorola had quality control programs in use when MII and MICOR were being built that increased the cost of their equipment. Not only were the radios put through a final test, but the incoming components were tested prior to manufacturing. I wonder where the components went to that were rejected. Fred W5VAY _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kris Kirby Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 10:21 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Remote power monitoring On Mon, 17 Dec 2007, Mike Besemer (WM4B) wrote: Mastr-II vs. Icom? Doesn't that question answer itself? Not really. I'm curious as to if it is the choice of capcitors used or the design of the audio circuits. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:kris%40catonic.us us But remember, with no superpowers comes no responsibility. --rly
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor conversion question
David: I do not want to be too picky, but your simple statement is not fully correct. To place components in series or parallel depends on what you are trying to accomplish as a final result! Fred W5VAY Retired Engineer _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of W2DRH Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 6:51 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor conversion question You put resistors in series and caps in parallel. Just so you know ARS W2DRH David R. Henry, LME Licensed Master Electrician Electronics Tech. ARRL Instructor
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: duplexer isolation and receiver noise bud
Kevin, Sorry I must disagree with you. When isolators were first introduced to the two way radio systems in the early 70's they were for the purpose of reducing intermod on congested sites. Then others saw the benefit of protecting the solid state finals, they were also used for that purpose. Fred W5VAY - Original Message - From: Kevin Custer To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:34 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: duplexer isolation and receiver noise bud Ron Wright wrote: The primary reason for a isolator is to prevent intermod I strongly disagree... An isolators main purpose is to prevent a power amplifier from burning up due to excessive reflected power; due to antenna system issues. Kevin Custer
Re: RE: RE: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: duplexer isolation and reciever noise bud
John: There are two things that you must protect you repeater receiver from. One is the on frequency signal, which will come from the repeater transmitter noise output and the second one is the blocking signal which prevents the repeater receiver from receiving the desired signal, which will come from the repeater transmitter main carrier output. The first has to be eliminated at the transmitter output signal, while the second is eliminated at the receiver input source. Both areas usually require between 70 and 80 db rejection each! Fred W5VAY - Original Message - From: John Barrett To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:39 AM Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: duplexer isolation and reciever noise bud I’m trying to understand your figures, and I got lost some place. From the transmitters… I’m max 50w (+47dbm) into the isolator -1db from the isolator -3db from the combiner -30db from the antenna circulator (assuming the antenna is matched) -3db from the receive splitter -60 to -90db from the receiver cavities Total isolation = 97 to 127db (as good or better than most stock duplexer setups) Putting my transmit signals at -50 to -80 dbm The receiver has 0.15uV sensitivity, which is -123dbm, which puts the transmitters well above the receivers “floor” However, the receiver specifies 75db spurious/image/intermod rejection which I take to mean that any off channel signal -48dbm (-123dbm sensitivity + 75db rejection) or less should be completely ignored by the receiver, as it will be attenuated below the receiver floor in the IF. Anything stronger than that will start to cause de-sense, swamping any on-channel signals at the same power or less. That’s what I need confirmed – if the receivers stated sensitivity + spurious/image/intermod rejection = maximum adjacent channel signal before de-sense kicks in. Is there an RF Engineer in the house ?? -- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Wright Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 6:31 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: RE: RE: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: duplexer isolation and reciever noise bud There will be some reflected power from the antenna. And this reflected power will be wide tx band noise also which will affect the receiver. If you are putting power into the isolator tx port there will be reflected noise and 30 db will not be enough. With the TX -80 db down and 30 db from isoloator that is only 110 db. It will swamp the receiver. Not sure why isolator cause harmonics for it has no non-linear components. It might cause tx to generate harmonics. Isolators are on the output of many repeater transmitters including my UHF Micor and it is built to work directly into an antenna although most applications use a duplexer which will give some harmonic suppression. Using the dummy load port for the receiver might good idea. One way of getting TR relay. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Keith McQueen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2007/10/23 Tue AM 12:10:47 CDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: RE: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: duplexer isolation and reciever noise budget The danger I see with this is when your antenna goes bad (and they all do eventually), your receiver will be hit with the full reflected power of the PA almost certainly turning it into a smoldering doorstop. Keith [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Barrett Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 7:47 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: RE: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: duplexer isolation and reciever noise budget An isolator wont cause intermod, but it may cause harmonics. Commercial installations usually use either a harmonic filter and 3db hybrid coupler, or a special type of band pass cavity to couple the output from the isolator to the feed line. (This info from an RX TX application note on transmitter combiners) I’m proposing a novel application of the circulator (an isolator without the dummy load on one port)…. Instead of the dummy load, the 3rd port feeds the receiver chain… the transmit chain will still use more or less conventional combining techniques to merge the signals from the 3 transmitters… the output from the transmitter combiner goes to the input of an additional circulator, the circulator output goes to the antenna as you would normally expect for an isolator, and the “load†port goes to the receive chain instead of a dummy load. Since the path from the transmit chain port to the receive chain port is “reversed†compared to the normal signal flow in a circulator, it will incur 20-30db of loss,
Re: [Repeater-Builder] AC Line Conditioner
Eric / Don, Eric you are so right; A properly designed electrical distribution system--. However many systems are not designed properly and more are not maintained properly! It is left up to the customer to correct for these problems. Many 4kv systems just ahead of the pole transformers do not have transient protection and none have noise elimination devices. Everything the power companies do is all related to their cost and they want to keep it to as low a value as possible. For the customer, where the power companies responsibility stops and the customers begin, there needs to be a lighting/transient protection of some kind. Isolation transformers are not always necessary unless the electronic equipment is critical or susceptible to transients. There are some isolation transformers that provide 60 to 70 db isolation and a ferro-resonant transformer that also provides for line voltage fluxuations. Sola transformers are a good example. As an engineer in the 60's, I started using Sola's transformers on all remote located equipment with a transient protector on the primary of the Sola with excellent results. I also used Josylan protectors on three phase deep well pumps with excellent results. If the power companies did better maintenance, we hams would not have to lead them to their noise problems. Lighting transients can be picked up by power lines due to large ground currents and cause problems in all electrical systems, no matter how well the electrical system is designed and maintained. Don; there are solutions to your problems, you just have to do some research and find them. Fred W5VAY - Original Message - From: Eric Lemmon To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 10:21 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] AC Line Conditioner Don, Thanks to some advertising hype being spread by manufacturers of so-called surge suppressors, one might think that some kind of a surge suppressor is a must-have accessory. Not! A properly-designed electrical distribution system does not need such pathetically inadequate gimmicks. As a power engineer for Boeing, I see many instances of our IT people being pressured to install surge suppressors where they are completely unnecessary. It is the responsibility of the utility to provide an AC power source that is appropriately protected with fuses and surge arrestors at the distribution level- usually 12kV or 22kV. Once inside the radio shack, each station should have a properly-grounded 120 VAC feed, along with appropriate protection of the antenna feedline. The highest priority should be to ensure that every conductor that enters each radio equipment cabinet has the *SAME* ground reference for protection. If you are converting the incoming AC to nominal 14 VDC floating on a battery, you should be okay. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Don KA9QJG Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 11:55 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] AC Line Conditioner I Would like some input on What some are using for a AC Line Conditioner not a UPS , For a Repeater site that may not have the Cleanest AC Coming in . I do have a 50 Amp Astron with the Battery Backup on a Battery. I know that should Clean most things up, But I am a little concerned about what’s coming in. on the AC, I also have Great grounding and a Poly Phaser on the Antenna Side. Thanks Don KA9QJG
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Call Sign and Sounds like a Ham, NOT
Not all WD are experimental calls. My XYL had WD5DXK call as a General until she let it expire in Oct. 2006. She is a quadriplegic with MS and felt that there was no reason to keep her license as she has not been on the air for a long time. Age and illness gets to all of us eventually. Fred W5VAY Extra class - Original Message - From: Ron _ To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 10:32 AM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Call Sign and Sounds like a Ham, NOT Don, WD prefixes and WD#xxx formats are not reserved for experimental. It is part of the former novice block of calls issued in the mid 70's. Ron WD4RBJ To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:31:01 -0500 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Call Sign and Sounds like a Ham, NOT Don, This is an experimental callsign. The reason I'm familiar with this is I tried to obtain a WC9 callsign for my county's EMA Ham Club - that was also denied since WC and WD prefixes are experimentals. (BTW - we ended up with W9WIL.) Which system was he on? SARA, CFMC? I'd be interested in listening to hear this guy some time... Maybe I'd even query him on his callsign. Hehehehe Moderator note: Sorry for the OT thread... Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Don Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:31 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Call Sign and Sounds like a Ham , NOT I found something interesting and Thought Would share, I heard a Ham talking as He was driving through the Chicago Metro area on a large Repeater System , and when I am near the Computer , I Just look up the Call to find more info about the person to see If We might have something in common to talk about I looked up His call WD9XAD On http://www.qrz.com/ and http://hamcall.net/call nothing Found , Sure looks like a Older Call and the Person talked like a Ham But now days who knows so I went to the FCC Site http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/reports7/ Top Search for Call sign Well it came up But NOT A Ham radio call, I doubt very much if it was the Person with the Non ham lic using it, But I found it interesting and Nice to learn something as We get older, it's just remembering it is the Problem Back in the Old Days We just took people at their word , But with the Internet I find things are not always what We think .! 73 De Don KA9QJG -- Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. It's easy! Try it!
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeater Range : Estimate Program Available
To All Interested: I would invite you attention to a paper presented by Kenneth Bullington, Radio Propagation at Frequencies Above 30 Meagcycles in the October 1947 Proceedings of the I.R.E. - Waves and Electronics Section. Most all radio propagation prediction methods over the years have been based on the findings of his research for this paper. A GE Mobile Radio Data File Bulletin (10003-1), VHF and UHF Propagation, was published in July 1962 for use by engineers and technicians for the prediction of radio coverage. Along with this bulletin a hard paper/plastic slide rule was manufactured by GE for its sales personnel to predict radio coverage. Motorola sales people liked to get a hold of it and use it also; Range and Signal Strength Calculator for 2 Way Radio.There was a second version put together by GE in 1977; Range and Transmitter Power Calculator. If you can find them, either of these slide rules can give adequate results with radio range calculations. With the general usage of computers in the 1980's many propagation programs appeared on the market, some use digitized USGA maps while others take a more simplistic approach. You get what you pay for! This Data File may be available on line, I am not sure if it is. Fred W5VAY - Original Message - From: ldgelectronics To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 1:35 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeater Range : Estimate Program Available As a quick and dirty method, the radio horizon is: Distance (in miles) = Square Root of (2 * height in feet). Power and frequency do not really play that much into it. This has been mentioned in many stories of a repeater running just on the exciter and not many noticed. Once you get past the radio horizon, you cannot practically increase the power to get more distance. So a radio transmitting with an antenna on a 200 foot tower will give about 20 miles of coverage. VHF goes a little farther than UHF, but it's not by a lot. RadioMobile does a great job of factoring in many other things like TX power, RX sensitivity, frequency, coax and duplexer losses and some antenna modeling. After the learning curve, you can closely approximate typical systems with ease. Dwayne Kincaid WD8OYG Ya I use it at work too. Its better than at least 1/2 of the commercial products available. Quite amazing considering a Ham out of Quebec programmed it. Jesse On 8/29/07, Nate Duehr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: skipp025 wrote: OK Groovy Guys and Gals, Is there a simple rule of thumb radio range versus frequency and power level type computer program/software on the web? Maybe some software that also considers generic repeater operation from x-height agl with input frequency and power values. My friend doesn't need or really want a program with involved graphics or Lat Long issues. Most of his Ham Radio work is actually FM Simplex on flat ground and he's really interested in using the program for both VHF High and Low Bands as a very rough estimate of expected operational range (on flat ground) in miles. Your turn... Thanks in advance... skipp Even though he doesn't need it, I think spending the effort to learn how to drive RadioMobile is time well spent, if you're into looking at paths, coverage, etc. For a free program, it's really not bad at all. And it'd give him something to grow into after he mastered the basics. Nate WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Exciter Power Adjust
I agree with the other comments that 62 to 100 watts output will not make that much difference. From your description if the handhelds power output of ?(2 to 5 watts), is making it into the repeater receiver at full saturation and 62 watts out of the duplexer is not making it into the handhelds receiver, you have a noise problem at the steel mill! With all the electrical equipment at the mill, there is plenty of noise all over the spectrum. 1 to 2 db increase will not cure this problem. Fred W5VAY - Original Message - From: KA9QJG [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 3:03 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Exciter Power Adjust If that's the problem, 3 dB ain't going to make the difference. Looks to me the problem is the system receiver / not the transmitter. Neil - WA6KLA The problem is Not in the system Receiver, Repeater hears them Great No noise, But They do Not hear the Repeater that good in the Steel Mill, I think it is a wavelength Problem 440 and Above works Great inside the Mill. If it not going to be worth the Effort I will just forget it, However I will give a Couple at work a Phone call and Bring the Amp on line from 62 to 100 Watts direct and see if it Makes a Difference inside the Mill. Thanks for all the Help Don KA9QJG Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] cable run radiating cable
This is what happens when the a customer who knows nothing about radio, wants something cheep, buys low bid from someone who is out for a fast buck and the customer who is probably an administrator, is unwilling to admit that they made a mistake! All they had to do is write a performance guarantee into the purchase or specification with a penalty for non-performance. Fred W5VAY - Original Message - From: Jim B. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 8:27 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] cable run radiating cable Bob Dengler wrote: At 3/15/2005 01:48 PM, you wrote: what do you guys know about the installation of radiating cable for a repeater in a building. I have a 5 story building and sub basement. So it is like 6 stories. Thinking of putting the repeater in the lower level and installing the cable up to the roof. On the roof thinking a DB-408. (or would a dummy load be used) This would be a UHF repeater possible 2 watts or other low power use. The goal is to cover the floors as there are a lot of cement and metal. At this time they have a repeater on the roof but the lower floors are dead and there is very little receive in the sub basement. The current repeater is 40 watts. No preamp. The answer that was proposed for one local hospital was to put the whole mess on a middle floor, with 3dB stick just outside. But because another cut-throat shop came in and bid a used flexar rptr, and said it would work just fine on an existing antenna on the roof, they went that way. Oh, while the rptr was UHF, the antenna they used was a VHF 4-bay. It was resonant. Didn't work for beans in the hospital, worked good about 10-12 mi away though. The antenna and rptr have since been replaced, but it still doesn't work all that well. -- Jim Barbour WD8CHL Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Inside a Flag pole Tower
Please do not down grade all engineers. Some of us with degrees realize that the real world is not the lab world. Over 45 years has shown me that very few antenna installations are the same. I have seen deep nulls on single antenna installations on large surface towers. One I remember well, you could see the antenna at 6.5 miles, but could not key the repeater with a 100 watt mobile on high band but had very good coverage at 45 miles out. Water towers and tall buildings seem to be the worst case for 450 and 800 MHz, multiple reflections from other antennas and flat surfaces, to many to calculate. As you stated Every site has to be evaluated on its merit. and it takes some common sense to see the radio horizon and gain isn't everything! Fred W5VAY - Original Message - From: Paul Finch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 8:40 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Inside a Flag pole Tower Sometimes the system has not read the physics book! I once worked with four PHD's, 3 out of four said I would never make a circuit work, one abstained. I did make it work, and it worked better than the one the PHD's came up with! They were scratching there heads! By the way, I never darkened the door of any college. Maybe I was to stupid to know it would not work because my engineering skills were self taught and OJT, none of it in the classroom. That's how a lot of advances in today's technology based world happens, and not always from a College educated engineer. All I was saying in my original post was that you can't arbitrarily say never use more than a 8 dB antenna at 100 feet. Every site has to be evaluated on it's own merit and I stand by that statement! Paul -Original Message- From: Kevin Custer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 7:15 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Inside a Flag pole Tower Joe Montierth wrote: Dean specified 100ft AAT, which takes into account the ground elevation, thats not very high off the ground. I own a 140 ft tower, with antennas that have relatively high gains. I can sit at the bottom of the tower (which should be the worst null) and still hear and get into the repeater. I can move .5 mile away with the same results. I can move 3 or 5 miles away with the same results. The null zones created by high gain antennas are usually so close to the antenna (when at 100 ft) that it makes no difference. By the time you get into the major lobe of the antenna, you will less than a mile or so away from the tower; as you get further away, you just get more and more into the beamwidth, not less. A high gain antenna may have a pattern that is 8 degrees, that would be 4 degrees above the horizon, and 4 degrees below the horizon. With an antenna 100 ft AAT, you would come into the major lobe just a little over a quarter mile from the antenna. I think most people would agree that if you're closer than .25 miles to an antenna at 100 ft, you won't have a lot of problem hearing (or getting into) the attached repeater. I too, have worked in the RF field for a long time, and seen some strange stuff. One thing I consistantly see is that a high gain antenna will almost always outperform a lower gain antenna at the fringes, or near the horizon. It doesn't seem to matter if it is a 100 ft tower, or a ten thousand foot mountain. Even on the 10,000 ft mountain it is hard to make the nulls of much consequence, since they are such an angle, reference the major lobe. This is from real-world experience also. Pehaps the laws of physics and trigonometry are different out east, I am only relying on wild west observations. :) Joe Same stuff happens out here in the east. I have had the exact same experience as suggested in the text above. Kevin Custer Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: M2 CAS
For those of you that are just beginning to experiment with repeater building, try using a little common sense. The manufactures would not have invested a lot of money in shielding and bypass caps if they thought they could get by with less. The MII M series mobile was never intended to be used as a repeater. Just because it works on some frequencies does not mean it will work on all frequencies. There is only plastic between the Tx and Rx and many common leads between the Tx and Rx. The MII E series was designed to function as a low power repeater with the Tx in the lower portion and the Rx in the upper portion. This provides some additional isolation between Tx and Rx. It does not eliminate the problem birdies that occur with all types of sets nor the leaky RF paths between the Tx and Rx. Possible elimination procedures are High Side Rx injection, swap out the IFAS and Hi IF boards for ones with a different IF, use more by pass caps, etc. Examine the MII repeater chassis; all leads into the RF portion of the Tx and Rx are bypassed with the older MASTR Pro connectors; there is plenty of shielding between the RF sections. If you want a good working repeater, take the time and invest some money in the proper equipment. Fred W5VAY - Original Message - From: Jim B. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: M2 CAS Henry Clark, KC4KZT wrote: Add me to the list who could not get a 443/448 pair to duplex in the same chassis. Nothing I tried would ever work. Way too much desense. That was about 5 years ago, and I remember someone saying then that 443/448 was a mission, and for some unknown reason would not duplex efficiently in the Mastr II chassis. I remember this coming up a few years ago-wasn't it a case of the LO in the receiver getting close to the same freq as the tx (or one of the multiplier stages?), and in a duplex app, the tx freq was getting into the IF of the rx...or something like that... -- Jim Barbour WD8CHL Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: M2 CAS
The 30 to 50 MHz can be changed with out mods, however the VHF and UHF sets require extensive mods to the IF/Filter board. The IFAS boards are not different except for the Xtal filters. Fred W5VAY - Original Message - From: Joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 9:58 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: M2 CAS Hello Fred, Very good points. Question, have you successfully used an IFAS with a different IF frequency without modifications? Joe, K1ke Fred Seamans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: = Possible elimination procedures are High Side Rx injection, swap out the IFAS and Hi IF boards for ones with a different IF, use more by pass caps, etc. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Master Pro Era Line Driver
The receiver only power supply for a MASTR Pro series is a 4EP39. Not all have Line Drivers. But that card is advisable as it has de-emphasis ckt on the card. Using the line driver lets you connect up a speaker on the Receiver and have separate volume/line output controls. Fred W5VAY - Original Message - From: Steve Bosshard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 1:55 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Master Pro Era Line Driver Don't you think mixing de-emphasised audio from the satellite receivers, and flat audio from the ge discriminator will sound a little funny? The line out on a remote audio card should be adjustable from around 10dbm to - 25 dbm or so. Don't know of many voters that use microphone level inputs, but I may be wrong. I wasn't suggesting the 4ep38 station transmitter/receiver supply, but instead, the auxilliary receiver supply that is about 5 rack units tall, and is made for housing a pro receiver and feeding phone lines or decoders. Anyhow, best luck, Steve NU5D www.bosshardradio.com Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Mastr II Rx Freq Drift
Everyone: All the more reasons that when you order Crystals; PLACE THE ORDER by LETTER with all crystal types, operating frequency, and oscillating frequency specified in writing, so there is no misunderstandings! Make and keep a copy of the letter order until all items are correctly received. Fred W5VAY - Original Message - From: Coy Hilton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 7:43 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Mastr II Rx Freq Drift I ordered 7 crystals from Bomar in December on the phone. When I received the order they had gotten a repeater pair reversed IE the pair was for a link radio on a repeater, what I actually got was the crystals for the repeater frequency, the Tx and Rx frequencies were reversed. When I called they said that I had made the mistake and that they would be glad to make the crystals that I needed for 10 bucks each. SAY WHAT? SO BOMAR is on my nasty list. Great customer no service!! --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Maire Company [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At one time I had ICM make me some for Motorola HT-210 and HT-90. They worked ok in Florida but when we took them to Gatlinburg TN in winter almost all the radio's had problems of being off Freg. never ordered from them again. Been using Bomar for many years for repeaters and HT-500 and GE mobiles with no problems. that is my 2 cents. John - Original Message - From: Bob Dengler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 7:06 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II Rx Freq Drift At 2/7/2005 12:19 PM, you wrote: I recently rebuilt my 440 repeater and got away from the Mastr II mobile w/ tripler PA and went to a Mastr II Station. As a part of the upgrade, I sent a set of 2C icoms to International Crystal and had them recrystaled to my frequency. It has been on the air since the end of December. When I first put in on, everything was great. After about 2 weeks, I couldn t get into it anymore. After some experimenting, I found that if I tuned down from 449.325 (rx freq) to 449.310 I could bring it up. Went back to the site with the service monitor and put it back on frequency. That was 3 weeks ago. A few days ago, can t bring up the repeater. I tried at 449.320. Bingo! There it is. My question Is it normal for a crystal to drift that much over the first month or so? I don t remember having this problem before but it s been a while. No, the building is not climate controlled but is insulated very well and the temperatures have been pretty mild around here lately. Although crystals do age a very small amount, it's not normal for it to move this much. Sounds like some contamination got inside the can. For as much as ICM charges for crystals these days, you should have no problem getting a replacement from them at no charge. Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Channel Guard element needed
Neil: It sure would make a big difference. Metal = Mechanical and Plastic = Transistorized. Our age is told by the first types of test equipment we used. Mine was the old Lampkin Dev. Monitor and Lampkin's Highly unstable frequency calibrated VFO without the temperature comp. Fred W5VAY - Original Message - From: Neil McKie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 11:43 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Channel Guard element needed Is it plastic or a metal housing? Neil - WA6KLA Coy Hilton wrote: Hi Gang, I'm looking for a Channel Guard element for 103.5. This is the Red one with the base that looks like a small tube base. I have one for 118.?, but need 103.5. If you have one let me know what you need for it, or I'll trade the one that I have. 73 And Thanks AC0Y Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Starting out with a Mastr II
Coy; I would suggest that you add the following after --- million. in you descriptions of the 5C and 2C ICOM's; over the temperature range of -40 Deg.C. to +70 Deg.C. providing you set the initial frequency of the ICOM as described in the GE MASTR II manual. Less you move the crystal's S curve up/down on the temperature curve and then the ICOM will not meet the speciation at the extremes of the temperature range. Thanks Fred W5VAY - Original Message - From: Coy Hilton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 10:13 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Starting out with a Mastr II Actually a 2C ICOM is internally compensated and will not compensate any other ICOM it's Compensation pin is not connected internally. All ICOMS will stay with in 2 parts per million with in the normal temp range. It's when you get to the extreme rang of temps that the compensation takes over. Before you slam me read your manual carefully. Here is what it all means: EC = Externally Compensated 5C = Internally Compensated to remain with in 5 Parts per million and will compensate all other ICOMS except 2C. 2C = Internally Compensated only and will not compensate external ICOMS and will keep it's frequency with in 2 parts per million 73 AC0Y --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, edctexas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, kg4wmp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I could find nothing specific on why a radio whould need 4 (or more) 5C's and 1 EC. Do they take an average over several crystals or something or was this a function of multiple channels? Normally a mobile set only needs one 5C or 2C ICOM. The EC units are slaved to the correction that the 5C creates for itself. The radio could have the buss cut and use separate Master and slaves for TX and RX. It is not normally recommended to use multiple 5C units. This will cause the units to fight each other. Theeir temp. comp. will not be correct. But on low band and for ham use, put in what you got and use it. Some of the MII repeaters in this area don't bother with any temp. comp. at all. The master ICOM has a selected thermistor and resistor combination which produces a correction voltage to a tuning diode (varicap). If I remember right the 2C units have to have the parts selected, but the 5C units don't. The EC units have the tuning diode and get the correction voltage from the master. If two masters are tied together the voltages fight. Some guys use EC ICOMs and modulate the varicap. Its good FM but generally low deviation. Most repeaters source their +10V from a separate source for TX and RX. This separation prevents any RX side noise from adding spurious to the TX. Simplex transmitters don't have the problem as the RX is off during TX. Repeaters do have the problem without this extra separation. More GE trivia! WE can take this off line if you'd like more poop. R- B website that Kevin has is a great source book. Once you get a manual your off. Many mobile use the same key. I'm not sure if the station key or the mobile key is stamped BF-10 anymore. Nearly any 2way shop has a ley to unlock it. I'd just use the master key (electirc drill). Then vaccuum the mess out of the radio. 73 Ed K3SWJ Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] wwvb Receiver
Does anybody have an older HP WWVB, 60Khzreceiver with the built in printer in their junk pile? If so please contact me off line at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Fred W5VAY Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] LDF5-50a
If you want to read a short paper on Lighting Protection and learn; obtain a GE paper on Living with Lighting by Kenneth Guthrie. After Ken retired from GE, he taught a course at George Washington University on Lighting Protection. Ken has passed away some years ago but his works still remain an authority on lighting. Transmission lines should be grounded at four major points: 1. At the top of the tower 2. Just above the bend where the line leaves the tower 3. At the entrance to the equipment building (A Polyphasor or similar device here will help discharge any high voltage on the center conductor of the transmission line) 4. At the equipment end of the line The grounds on the tower are short and always directed down to be connected to the tower. The grounds at the entrance to the equipment building ant at the equipment will depend on the type of system grounding the building owner has put in place. EG: Halo Ground Ring, Copper strap to bond all cabinets together, Simple common ground wire routed at the bottom of the equipment for all users to connect to, NO GROUND SYSTEM AT ALL! Every installation will be slightly different. Always put a lighting protector on the AC Power Lines. There are some good ones and some cheap ones. You get what you pay for. Spend the money and buy a good one and connect it to the building/system ground. If your equipment does not have a SOLA CV transformer in it as does GE MASTR II and some Motorola's buy a SOLA CV transformer to add to the lighting protection on the AC side. My success rate over 45 years is 99.999% by following these guidelines. The one failure had a direct hit on the antenna and a second direct hit on the AC pole transformer, both shot to he--. However the radio equipment and the transmission line were not damaged. Kenny's last bit of advice was always Spend all that you can afford for lighting protection and then borrow some more. Fred W5VAY - Original Message - From: Joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 4:49 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] LDF5-50a We use 3 ground kits at work (cell company). The first at the top of the tower, the second at the base of the tower just before it makes the turn to go horizontal, and the third outside the entry port to the building. All ground kits are installed with the groundkit pigtail pointing towards the ground so that any possible lightning hit will have the shortest path to gound with the fewest turns in the groundwire. Inside the building, we install a polyphasor to the feedline and gound it to the common ground ring inside the shelter. We take very few damaging hits from lightning at the hundreds of sites we have. Interestly, most lightning damage comes in the power lines. Keep all groundwires as short as feasibly possible and always flowing downhill. I learned this from a lightning protection device installer. Never expect lightning to flow uphill, it always wants to go down and seek ground. 73, Joe, K1ike --- Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rick, The conventional practice is to install a grounding kit at the point just before the feedline enters the Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] connectors
You hit it squarely on the head! A PROPERLY INSTALLED CONNECTOR! Both are good when installed correctly. It is amazing that some techs do not know how to solder correctly and some will use any crimp tool to get the job done in a hurry. With one exception, a crimp connector will not last as long as a properly installed soldered connector in off shore, salt water installations. Fred W5VAY - Original Message - From: Chuck Kelsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 4:48 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] connectors One last comment on the subject. I today spoke with a guy that worked for TX/RX for many years. He is now on his own and owns a consulting firm that specializes in RF Interference. He says that the crimp connectors are superior but adds the following -- 1. that the proper crimp tool MUST be used and that the center pin MUST be soldered, not crimped. No matter what, common sense dictates that a poorly installed connector of either style will perform poorly. Me thinks that this can be the underlying problem in many cases where someone found a problem. Hey, if you just happen to end up with a factory-installed connector that failed, it's quite possible it might have been a new employee, just learning. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Jim B. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 11:48 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] connectors [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As for the crimp or clamp style connector. If you look at many combining system you will notice that 95% of them use the CLAMP style connector. There must be a reason that MOST of the engineers for the companies prefer CLAMP over CRIMP. hmmm there must be a reason. I know that out of all the site we have here in the North West we use nothing but CLAMP. Mike K7PFJ more major snippage Again, not true. The vast majority of them are CRIMP now. Motorola recommends them. M/A-Com recommends them. TX/RX does. Sinclair does. Scala does. etc, etc, etc... (Also it's not recommended to use 'N' connectors at power levels above 100W above about 200 Mhz, but that's another issue.) -- Jim Barbour WD8CHL Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help: GE M2 PL decode dropout on voice peaks and IDA control shelf
Ralph: You do not say what you are using for a CTCSS decoder. If you are using the normal GE MII decoder circuit board; The first LSI module in the audio path has an active Low Pass filter as a part of the circuit. I have seen this circuit become defective and pass all audio components; in which case you can talk down the CTCSS decoder. I would suggest that you replace the CTCSS plug in circuit board or replace the first LSI Module on the board.If you are using an off brand decoder, change it out for a standard GE one. Fred W5VAY - Original Message - From: Ralph Hogan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 10:21 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Help: GE M2 PL decode dropout on voice peaks and IDA control shelf Thanks guys for all the comments. Yes, the one ht I normally use on the bench may be a little hot on PL (er I mean CG hihi) Dev and voice dev, but not way out of bounds. Kind of one of the reasons I use that one, is it's on the edge as a user radio might be. The point is, it's never done that with any other GE M2 on the bench before. Thus my questioning of the hardware under test. As for quality and standardization of radios, I agree. They are all over the place audio wise. Sure I could crack open this particular HT and turn it down to 200 Hz pl deviation and 4 KHz peak voice dev. I know if I put the repeater up on the mtn site today, some of my users will talk it off too. It would be hard to bench calibrate all the users radios out there. Again, I just think there is something in the hardware I'm missing. I did grab two other ht's as stated earlier and they created the same problem. One HT was a moto saber btw, so hopefully they did their homework correctly on PL injection into the transmitter audio chain. I dont remember the exact particulars on the Saber, but I remember it does have a lower PL dev and much lower audio dev. Still shuts the PL decoder down. I looked at the audio levels going into the pl deck. Didn't look out of whack. I'll try changing the PL tone from 127.3 to something lower that I normally use. That was a good suggestion and easy to try. Maybe I have one of those voices for 127.3. Someone mentioned supply voltages. The 12 VDC supply is the bench supply right now. I adjusted the 10 VDC a long time back when first starting with this 'new' repeater station. But, will recheck the 10 VDC, just in case. Well its getting late and Santa is near (for the kids). Thanks again guys, you given me some things to think about. best holiday wishes, Ralph W4XE Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Tin Sound Audio
Mat: You don't say how you are using the M-Pro Rx. The Vol/Sq Hi point is the best point to get audio from the Rx on older M-Pro Rx, if you have a plug in card shelf with a remote audio card in it, the 600 ohm line output is a better source of audio as it is already de-emphasized. If you are using a repeater controller, there should be some means to select de-emphasis on the audio input to it. If not or you are using some other method to interconnect your Rx/Tx, you'll probably have to build a de-emphasis network to go in the audio path. If you have a copy of the 600 ohm line driver card that mounts in the EP38 power supply in early M-Pro, there is a simple de-emphasis network on this circuit board that you could copy. Fred W5VAY - Original Message - From: Mathew Quaife [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 6:19 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Tin Sound Audio Any idea where a good point would be to get the audio from on the Mastr receiver would be. I do have the schematic so if you could just give me a reference point that would be very helpful. Mathew Mat: The de-emphasis network on M-Pro receivers is after the Volume Control. Since you are getting your audio feed from Volume Control High, you will need to provide a de-emphasis some where in your interconnect/controller to get rid of the tinny sound. Fred W5VAY - Original Message - From: Mathew Quaife [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 5:13 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Tin Sound Audio Took the audio from the HI side of the audio pot on the MASTR ER41 receiver. Mathew At 11:00 PM 12/21/2004 -, you wrote: Is there a way to make the audio coming into the repeater a little more basey, like would adding say a 47 Ohm resister do it. Seems like certain users voices are very tinny sounding. Any thoughts. ---Are you running deemphasis? Sounds like you're using a non-deemphasized audio source from your receiver (aka discriminator audio) Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of state-of-the-art repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html We now offer complete Kenwood TKR repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] GE Ferro-Resonant Transformer PS
Kevin: You may want to copy this for the repeater files. For those of you that would like to learn more about the technical details of a ferro-resonant transformer, Sola has a pdf format 3 page write up on them. http://www.sola-hevi-duty.com/products/powerconditioning/pdfs/opchars.pdf Fred W5VAY Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Source for custom made cables
Its not that they do not know how to install it correctly! They just do not want to take the time to do the job correctly! Fred W5VAY - Original Message - From: Chuck Kelsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 11:10 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Source for custom made cables Alas, some THINK they know how to install a connector. I'd hate to admit to the number of times I've seen simple PL-259's incorrectly installed by hams. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: russ [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Source for custom made cables This is true but some do. - Original Message - From: Maire Company [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 11:51 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Source for custom made cables yes but some don't have the time or maybe not the skill to do it. When we set up a site we at most times don't have the time to do connectors, as we need to get the system on line and move on to other jobs. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Repeater Backup Power
Justin: First, Your Vertex rep. is full of it! Look at the power consumption on the Vertex repeater between AC and DC, especially the Stby/Rec mode. Now to your question; You have a lot of unanswered questions that need to be decided before any design can be considered. As a retired engineer I can list a few for you. 1. What is the expected duty cycles of each piece of equipment when the power fails? 2. How long do you want emergency power to be operational? 1, 2, 6, 12, 24 hours or days? 3. Is there a physical space limitation on the installation? 4. What type of maintenance is available? 5. Are there any accessibility problems? 6. What are the budget constraints? Are they firm or adjustable? 7. What do you mean by overboard? 8. What level of reliability/redundancy do you want in the emergency system? These are just the beginning of a long list of questions that should be answered before any design is considered. Depending on your answers, there are alternatives that may be considered that will effect price, space requirements and reliability. I can see one difficulty now; the computer requires AC stby power while the other equipment could use either. I would hope that you are not one of the managers that wants the caddy for a chevy price. Since you are not sure about what you need, I would urge you to hire a good technician or engineer to design a system that meets your requirements. Fred W5VAY - Original Message - From: Justin W.Pauler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 4:10 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Repeater Backup Power Hello All... I am finally in the process of finishing up an install on a personal repeater system and I've come to a dead end, I'm hoping this group might have some answers. My goal is to provide emergency power for all of the equipment in my cabinet for as long as possible, without totally going overboard or over budget. First off, here's the equipment that I have: Vertex VXR-7000 UHF Desktop Repeater @ 50W AC PWR: 1AMP @ 120VAC (TX) .5AMP @ 120VAC (STBY/RX) DC PWR: 7.5AMP @ 12V (TX) 1AMP @ 12V (STBY/RX) Alinco DM-330MV 35AMP Power Supply AC PWR: 120VAC (Unknown AMP/Watt Draw) Pentium II 233 Personal Desktop Computer (No Monitor) AC PWR: 150W PS @ 120VAC Connected to the Alinco Power Supply I have two UHF mobile radios and a repeater controller, the total draw, even while in transmit, is less than 5 amps. At my disposal for this project right now is an Automatic Transfer Switch from West Mountain Radio, Two 100A/Hr gel-cell batteries and a AC UPS that will accept external batteries (through a slight modification). So, what is the best method of powering all of this equipment? My first thought would be to buy a completely separate UPS to power the computer and then connect the two batteries to the Vertex Repeater and other DC items through the Automatic Transfer Switch. However, this creates a few concerns. First, Vertex is telling me that powering the repeater from DC is not only inefficient, but if done incorrectly, could cause numerous problems (including severely damaging the repeater). I was told in most cases, if the power goes out and you drain the batteries, you do NOT want to reconnect the A/C power to the repeater until the batteries have been fully recharged, the on-board charging circuit cannot handle the load. A low-voltage cutoff switch might work in this situation, but I've done some research and most are out of my price range for this project. The other complicating factor here is the fact that the Vertex repeater produces a slight charging voltage meant to maintain the batteries, not recharge them, I doubt that the low voltage disconnect circuit or the Automatic Transfer Switch would like voltage going the other direction. The other alternative is to power everything off the UPS I acquired, running everything continuously on A/C. However, I'm also hearing that this process would be inefficient going from DC to AC and in some cases, back to DC. I also doubt that I would be able to get much life from a UPS (even with the two 100A/Hr batteries connected). So, does anyone have any suggestions? Justin W. Pauler Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: TKR-740 versus TKR-750 (Was: Maggiore's Service)
Coy: Hi-Q active detectors here refer to RC and high Beta transistor networks that were first used in GE Mastr Pro in the last few years of production and then in Mastr II with the versa-tone networks that were laser trimmed Resistor networks and Op Amps mounted on ceramic substrate. They all made Hi-Q circuits that could either generate a CTCSS tone or provide for the detection of a very narrow band of audio frequencies for CTCSS. You are correct in that the original reverse burst was 180 degrees that tried to stop the vibrating of the mechanical reeds. However, even with mechanical reeds 180 degrees was not the best phase reversal, but it was the cheapest to do. When Mastr II was designed it was decided to use the ideal amount of phase reversal of the CTCSS tone, as it was not 180 degrees and this has continued into today. I would invite you to look into any design on tone detection circuit design, you will find that there is no instantaneous off when the tone quits, be it mechanical, solid state RC, phase detector, or other types. Some phase reversal is needed to turn the detector off if you want as fast a response as can be obtained. Fred W5VAY - Original Message - From: Coy Hilton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 7:23 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: TKR-740 versus TKR-750 (Was: Maggiore's Service) If I remember correctly, The reason for the reverse phasing came to be , was to stop the old reeds that used to be used in the CTCSS decoders, imediately to force the decoders to squelch the receiver before the squelch noise. (sometimes called squelch crash). I'm not sure that I understand the meaning of the term HI-Q solid state detectors unless refers to the L C type of tone detectors that were used origonally to decode DTMF. Now tones are detected by Phase detectors, some form of FFT in software, or Active filters using OpAmps. The phase reversal can acheve the same or similar results in these. 73 Coy --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Fred Seamans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To Jim et all: Actually there is a reason that Motorola and GE (now M/A-COM ) used a reverse CTCSS tone burst. The Hi-Q solid state tone detectors that are used by these manufactures have a ring down time delay, the same as trying to stop a mechanical reed after removal of the driving tone. The design of the solid state detector dictates the amount of phase shift of the CTCSS tone that is ideal to stop the ring down of the Hi-Q networks. Both Motorola and GE used the amount of phase delay that worked best with their design. It was not to make other brands function poorly. Fred W5VAY - Original Message - From: Jim B. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 1:45 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] TKR-740 versus TKR-750 (Was: Maggiore's Service) Eric Lemmon wrote: Unfortunately, the TKR-740 receiver cannot properly respond to a Motorola reverse burst, but that is a deficiency that I can live with. (Geez, I wish Ham radios could encode and decode reverse burst!) That's actually Motorola's fault. I think they and M/A-Com are the only ones who use other than a 180 phase shift for revese burst, and they do it deliberately to make other brands not sound as good on their systems. -- Jim Barbour WD8CHL Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] TKR-740 versus TKR-750 (Was: Maggiore's Service)
To Jim et all: Actually there is a reason that Motorola and GE (now M/A-COM ) used a reverse CTCSS tone burst. The Hi-Q solid state tone detectors that are used by these manufactures have a ring down time delay, the same as trying to stop a mechanical reed after removal of the driving tone. The design of the solid state detector dictates the amount of phase shift of the CTCSS tone that is ideal to stop the ring down of the Hi-Q networks. Both Motorola and GE used the amount of phase delay that worked best with their design. It was not to make other brands function poorly. Fred W5VAY - Original Message - From: Jim B. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 1:45 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] TKR-740 versus TKR-750 (Was: Maggiore's Service) Eric Lemmon wrote: Unfortunately, the TKR-740 receiver cannot properly respond to a Motorola reverse burst, but that is a deficiency that I can live with. (Geez, I wish Ham radios could encode and decode reverse burst!) That's actually Motorola's fault. I think they and M/A-Com are the only ones who use other than a 180 phase shift for revese burst, and they do it deliberately to make other brands not sound as good on their systems. -- Jim Barbour WD8CHL Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer story update
I would like to offer a few points from working on MII for 35 years. Ex Engineer retired now! 1. The output Impedance of the MII Amps is a nominal 50 ohms; actually it varies over quite a wide range and both inductive and capacitive reactance's. The mfg tolerances of the output transistors could not be tightly controlled by the suppliers. This is why the Z Matcher was introduced, to match the output impedance of the PA to a 50 ohm load. 2. The input impedance to a duplexer is 50 ohms only at the resonant frequency of the duplexer. All other frequencies are reactive. A compelling reason to place a Ferrite Isolator between the PA and the Duplexer. 3. It is not recommended that you place a Thru-line watt meter in the cable between the PA and the duplexer unless you plan to leave it there for all time. Erroneous indications will be indicated and detuning as indicated by the PA's collector current changes. 4. The best installation for MII PA's is to have the PA output connected to a Z Matcher, then to a Ferrite Isolator, then to a low pass filter and then to the duplexer. ( Proper alignment is required in all cases) Fred W5VAY - Original Message - From: Tim S. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 11:11 AM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer story update So from what I am getting here. Only some PA's are affected by the cable length. Mine happens to be a Master II Tband. It's only trial and error to discover it the problem. It's trial and error to make the cable length right so the PA is happy. If I understand this right, what cause the problem is the PA's output is not a true 50 ohms by failure or design. This causes the 50 ohm coax to not be matched to transfer the power from the PA to the duplexer. So you alter the cable length to make it match the output of the PA impedance. Which in turn helps it to transfer the power to the duplexer. Why does this work? Isn't the input to the duplexer also 50 ohms? Too much thinking for a Saturday morning! -Tim -Original Message- From: Joe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 4:45 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer story update I have used a short cable, then used various coax adapters to lengthen the cable. This is easier than the cut and try technique. I have one of those adapter kits that allows you to put together any combination of adapters. For example, I can make a male UHF to female UHF adapter. This will add length to the cable easily and quickly. If I see that cable length is effecting matching, I then take the time to cut a cable to that magic length. Joe If you have several hours of free time, and nothing else to do, you can use the cut and try method of finding the magic length of cable that transforms the output impedance of your PA to the input impedance of your duplexer. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Voters
The GE voter and M's voter both have COR input lines. The status tone is used when you have a continuous audio path between the voter and the voter Rx; Ex: Telephone lines/ Microwave Mux. When you use a keyed up link you normally would use the COR line to indicate status. Fred - Original Message - From: Jamey Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 7:54 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Voters That way I don't have to do any major mods to the voter. I prefer to run it the way it was intended. Jamey Wright -Original Message- From: John Sichert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 7:25 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Voters Jamey, If you did read through that thread, why would you still be using status tone to indicate a COR signal? John At 08:13 PM 9/14/04, you wrote: A while back, there was some discussion on voters. I have read through all of that. I am looking to install one here. I am planning on bringing my rx sites back on RF and having the rx radios at the voter site interface to a status tone (2175 Hz) circuit and then feed the voter. My question is: Does anyone have a circuit to generate the status tones or know of a reasonably priced commercially available product. I just don't want to re-invent the wheel if someone else has already dealt w/ this. Jamey Wright KD4SIY Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Propogation Prediction
There are some very high quality computer propagation predicting computer programs available that use USGS data maps. However these are expensive and only the companies that are into coverage predicting in a commercial way can afford them. But they are good. The first paper on VHF and UHF Propagation predicting that I became aware of was written by an engineer at GE Mobile Radio Department in 1962. It was well circulated and included in their Data File as a Bulletin 10003-1 (Abstract: This bulletin is provided for calculating the coverage which a certain VHF and UHF transmitter will provide or for calculating the power which a transmitter must have to cover a certain area. Such factors as path clearance, transmission line losses, antenna gains, and reliability are all taken into account for paths as long as 1000 miles). It is written for the knowledgeable technician and engineer. The charts and curves contained in this work were the basis for most all future computer propagation predicting programs of the 80's. For the radio shops and limited users this was a life saver. Also, a slide rule type prediction calculator (Range and Transmitter Power Calculator) was designed for the mobile radio sales people to use. These were such good tools that most manufactures and sales people in the 60's and 70's highly valued there use, even "M's" sales people would carry one in their brief cases. I doubt you could find the slide rule calculator now unless someone hoarded a bunch of them. The Datafile Bulletin 10003-1 dated July 1962 could be copied from some of the old timers in the industry. It could be of great benefit to answer some of the recent questions that have been on the Repeater-Builder mail. Sorry I do not have any extras. Maybe someone has some that could be scanned and posted. Fred Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] FBI Release (It's Getting Old !!!)
There is always the delete key It sure takes a long time to push it --- whoops its gone! Fred - Original Message - From: Eric Struble [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 1:48 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] FBI Release (It's Getting Old !!!) Maybe someone that is interested in recording radio conversations needs to start their own group. In other words, take it off of this group and stick to the subject at hand !!! Eric Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] 4CX300A
Gentleman: I have two 4CX300A tubes that I will be putting on EBAY in the near future. Thought I would see if anybody in the repeater group might want to buy them. They are new in original box, never used, however they are code dated 7928 ( manufactured the 28 week of 1979 ). If anyone is interested contact me at [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Repeater-Builder] Mastr Pro Control Shelf
Gentleman: Do any of you have an old GE Mastr-Pro Control Shelf (19D416725G1) with Repeater Control (19D416656XX), Audio Board (19D416667XX) and Intercom Board (19D416758XX) setting in your junk pile. If you do and would be willing to part with it, please contact me at [EMAIL PROTECTED]. This is 1970 era equipment. Thanks Fred W5VAY Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Repeater-Builder] FM/PM RF Links
A few comments from a retired engineer. Discussion on Modulation Process: I would offer a simple explanation with out getting into the mathematics for the non-engineering professionals in the group. FM and PM refers only to the modulation process in the transmitter. FM is where the frequency deviation is directly proportional to the amplitude of the modulating wave form. PM or Slope modulationis where the frequency deviation is directly proportional to the phase change or slopeof the modulating wave form. Both FM and PM are detected in the receiver by one of many different processes, Frequency Discriminator, Ratio Detector, Quadrature Detector, and other digital processes of more recent design. FM was forced upon the land mobile mfg as users wanted to modulate digital signals directly onto the RF carrier and not go through the modem/demod process. FM and PM are equally linear, its the additional low pass high pass filters, audio limiters, audio amplifiers etc that introduce the distortion products into the system. Land Mobile was designed to sent understandable information between two points, not Hi-Fi audio. Look at what we are now accepting in cell phones. RF Links: The Land Mobile radio equipment was never designed to be used for RF point to point links, but as there are people that want to get by with as little expense as possible most anything will be put to use. If you are fortunate enough, you should use 900 mhz and higher microwave equipment with baseband multiplexing. Then you won't have to worry about the links audio quality. For those that still want to use mobile radio equipment for linking I would offer the following practical suggestion from my experience. One should look at the manufactures specifications of their pre/de-emphasis, you should find something like +3/-8 db of a standard 6 db per octave curve. This presents you with a considerable problem. The audio levels and sounds can vary considerably over the radios audio pass band, even from radios of the same manufacture. Also, different radios become non-linearat different levels of deviation. High quality radios will normally have good linearity up to +/- 4 KHz deviation; this is one reason why system distortion is measured at 2/3 system deviation. 1. Link RF levels should have a fade margin greater than 15 db between Tx and Rx. NO RF levels at "YEA it's OK, SET ITTHERE!". 2. Match the Tx/Rx pre/de-emphasis as closely as practical. Component variation between the same mfg. sets can cause wide variations. 3. Do not let the RF links modulation exceed +/- 3.3 KHz deviation (Set the links Tx max Deviation for +/- 5 KHz per the mfg instructions. Set the audio coupler between the repeaters Rx and the links Tx such that +/- 5 KHz deviation on the received signal into the repeater Rx produces only +/- 3.3 KHz deviation on the links Tx.) Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Repeater-Builder] Noise Blankers UHF Links
The design of noise blankers were to eliminate the impulse noise of our wonderful automobiles. Most noise blankers use a separate RF front end on a frequency 5 or more Mhz removed from the main receiver frequency. When the noise reaches a predetermined design level of blanking the noise blanker ceases to blank the IF or audio signal in the main receiver. Noise blankers were never designed to function in a base station/repeater stationenvironment where you have very little impulse noise. If one is operational at a station site, it could be totally ineffective due to other signals causing interference on the noise blanker receive frequency. Some types of power line noise will be reduced, however most will overload the blanker. The best advise is do not use a noise blanker at a station site unless there is a very good reason to do so. UHF Links: Almost every link is different. I to have had low power links operate over 50 miles from high elevations to various sites that were line of site. I have had a UHF link that required 100 watts on both ends, mountain top to mountain top in Montana, 45 miles separation. There was another mountain top in the middle of the path obstructing the path. Get a copy of com-shop and put an effort into the path design that you want to have operational. Most reliable designs require better that a 90% reliability factor for year round and all weather operation. I have seen some poorly designed links that would only operate in the fall and winter when the trees did not have any foliage on them and the user would complain the other few months of the year and not spend any money to fix the problem. If your going to put in a UHF link - DO IT RIGHT! Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Z-Matcher
Z-Matcher Information: The Z-Matchers were not included with GE repeaters until they documented that the had a problem with Hi-Q reactive loads (e.g.: Duplexers). This did not happen until 1978. At first the Z-Matchers were supplied by Decibel Products and later GE put their own Z-Matcher on the filter board in place of the antenna relay. This did not solve all of the problems with the broad band PA's. There were still PA's failing that high-Q reactive loads, but at a much lower rate; especially on UHF. You should remember that a duplexer presents a 50 ohm load only at the tuned frequency; all other frequencies it presents a reactive load to the PA. A Z-Matcher with a ferrite isolator / circulator between the PA and the duplexer solved most all of the PA failure problems. This was to expensive to make it a standard on GE PA's, so the Z-Matcher was the only advertised solution. P.S. the fans on PA's were always an option to be purchased by the users when needed. Fred W5VAY (Retired GE Engineer) - Original Message - From: Fred Flowers To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 8:22 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Z-Matcher This was a state bid. I'm sure it was cut to the bone. Fred - Original Message - From: Lee Williams Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 5:46 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Z-Matcher Well the 300 that we used had them,they were all 100 or 110 watt repeaters,musta been an option but we never asked for it,they just came that way,or maybe only used on the higher powerrepeaters? Or more likely deleted by some bean counter somewhere. As always,YMMV. Personally I'd rather have it installed,picky picky 73,Lee - Original Message - From: Fred Flowers To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 1:27 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Z-Matcher Not really true I know where 200 Mastr II's UHF 75W were in service without a Z-Matcher. They just had a jumper in place of the relay. I also installed 40 110W VHF repeaters without matchers. Fred KF4QZN Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
