RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Helper Instruments (Voltadder VA 502)
Gary: The guy that marketed that 40 db power pad was actually a rep, a real character. I still have the data sheet and picture somewhere here in my library. He used to tell me his real money came from making and selling waders. BTW I do have the schematic and JPEG of the Cushman 40 db pad with the fuse inside. Should I send it to someone? Ciao, Tony, K3WX 73 Gary K4FMX Hi Tony, That was Don Simons. I think that he is still a rep but last I heard from him he was in Loveland, Co. He even left the rep business for a few years selling his waders. :) 73 Gary K4FMX
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Helper Instruments (Voltadder VA 502)
The idea of the dual meter unit was to be able to quickly go thru a circuit without having to touch the meter to change ranges or change to AC or DC. If you stuck it on a DC circuit it would read that right. If you stuck it on an AC circuit it would read that. Also you could read an AC voltage riding on top of a DC voltage. One meter would display the DC and the other the AC value. Kind of handy sometimes. I may have a catalog sheet of it somewhere around here but I haven't run across it in some time, Yes the mod box was ok but didn't sell to well. The other item I assume that you meant lineman. That was a very slick box and sold well. It was a line level meter with tone generator and audio amp/speaker and mike. It had the commonly used tone remote tones built in so you could check the line level at those frequencies. Usually people bought two of them, one to use on each end of a line being tested. You could talk back and forth to the guy on the other end and send each other tones and measure levels each way. 73 Gary K4FMX There were very few combination analog/DVM's at service instrument prices and the DMM's that had bar graphs didn't have the resoloution for trends at the time. I can only think of a few off hand such as the Keithly,Simpson had an early one in a 260 type case with Nixies,Ballentine $, and Fluke . I think Heath had one for a short time too. I'd love to see a picture of this meter. I'm still trying to grasp what was so special about two separate meters for AC and DC. There had to be some of Bill's magic either comparator presets, audible alarm or some neat thing that would make service easier. While the subject is odd Helper stuff, remember the Mod Box or the Sineman?
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Helper Instruments (Voltadder VA 502)
No Gary. I meant Sineman. I'm fully aware of the lineman. That was a bit overpriced for what it did. We had two Nortel units that we bought ex-telco that did the same thing elegantly. The Sineman was a unit that we received a mailed brochure. I'm looking at it now. The description: Microprocessor controlled test set features: AC voltmeter,Sineadder,Line Level meter,Single and DTMF tone decoding and portable battery operation $550 for a short time. The drawing of the unit shows a square box with a large meter and 16 digit keypad on the right. Bridge and terminate switch. 4 controls labeled Mode, Scale,Vol., Level. This doesn't have the typical appearance of Helper products. It looks like a keypad entry version of the Toner 3,Lineman,Sinadder 3 with DTMF decode added. This arrived after Susan took control of the company. I can scan this and upload it if anyone is interested. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Gary Schafer gascha...@... wrote: The idea of the dual meter unit was to be able to quickly go thru a circuit without having to touch the meter to change ranges or change to AC or DC. If you stuck it on a DC circuit it would read that right. If you stuck it on an AC circuit it would read that. Also you could read an AC voltage riding on top of a DC voltage. One meter would display the DC and the other the AC value. Kind of handy sometimes. I may have a catalog sheet of it somewhere around here but I haven't run across it in some time, Yes the mod box was ok but didn't sell to well. The other item I assume that you meant lineman. That was a very slick box and sold well. It was a line level meter with tone generator and audio amp/speaker and mike. It had the commonly used tone remote tones built in so you could check the line level at those frequencies. Usually people bought two of them, one to use on each end of a line being tested. You could talk back and forth to the guy on the other end and send each other tones and measure levels each way. 73 Gary K4FMX There were very few combination analog/DVM's at service instrument prices and the DMM's that had bar graphs didn't have the resoloution for trends at the time. I can only think of a few off hand such as the Keithly,Simpson had an early one in a 260 type case with Nixies,Ballentine $, and Fluke . I think Heath had one for a short time too. I'd love to see a picture of this meter. I'm still trying to grasp what was so special about two separate meters for AC and DC. There had to be some of Bill's magic either comparator presets, audible alarm or some neat thing that would make service easier. While the subject is odd Helper stuff, remember the Mod Box or the Sineman?
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Helper Instruments (Voltadder VA 502)
Ok, I never saw that one. That was after my time with them. There was another small company in Indiana that was started by a couple of ex wavetek guys that build a line test box too. It would fully simulate DC and tone remotes, measure line levels etc. Was a pretty nice box but pricey. I can't remember the name of it now. 73 Gary K4FMX -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater- buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dawn Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 4:29 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Helper Instruments (Voltadder VA 502) No Gary. I meant Sineman. I'm fully aware of the lineman. That was a bit overpriced for what it did. We had two Nortel units that we bought ex- telco that did the same thing elegantly. The Sineman was a unit that we received a mailed brochure. I'm looking at it now. The description: Microprocessor controlled test set features: AC voltmeter,Sineadder,Line Level meter,Single and DTMF tone decoding and portable battery operation $550 for a short time. The drawing of the unit shows a square box with a large meter and 16 digit keypad on the right. Bridge and terminate switch. 4 controls labeled Mode, Scale,Vol., Level. This doesn't have the typical appearance of Helper products. It looks like a keypad entry version of the Toner 3,Lineman,Sinadder 3 with DTMF decode added. This arrived after Susan took control of the company. I can scan this and upload it if anyone is interested. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Gary Schafer gascha...@... wrote: The idea of the dual meter unit was to be able to quickly go thru a circuit without having to touch the meter to change ranges or change to AC or DC. If you stuck it on a DC circuit it would read that right. If you stuck it on an AC circuit it would read that. Also you could read an AC voltage riding on top of a DC voltage. One meter would display the DC and the other the AC value. Kind of handy sometimes. I may have a catalog sheet of it somewhere around here but I haven't run across it in some time, Yes the mod box was ok but didn't sell to well. The other item I assume that you meant lineman. That was a very slick box and sold well. It was a line level meter with tone generator and audio amp/speaker and mike. It had the commonly used tone remote tones built in so you could check the line level at those frequencies. Usually people bought two of them, one to use on each end of a line being tested. You could talk back and forth to the guy on the other end and send each other tones and measure levels each way. 73 Gary K4FMX There were very few combination analog/DVM's at service instrument prices and the DMM's that had bar graphs didn't have the resoloution for trends at the time. I can only think of a few off hand such as the Keithly,Simpson had an early one in a 260 type case with Nixies,Ballentine $, and Fluke . I think Heath had one for a short time too. I'd love to see a picture of this meter. I'm still trying to grasp what was so special about two separate meters for AC and DC. There had to be some of Bill's magic either comparator presets, audible alarm or some neat thing that would make service easier. While the subject is odd Helper stuff, remember the Mod Box or the Sineman? Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Helper Instruments (Voltadder VA 502)
I think one was called the Lineman? and another the Toner? I added some dtmf and burst tones to my Sinadder 3 with aftermarket stuff from CES and others. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Gary Schafer gascha...@... wrote: Ok, I never saw that one. That was after my time with them. There was another small company in Indiana that was started by a couple of ex wavetek guys that build a line test box too. It would fully simulate DC and tone remotes, measure line levels etc. Was a pretty nice box but pricey. I can't remember the name of it now. 73 Gary K4FMX -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater- buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dawn Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 4:29 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Helper Instruments (Voltadder VA 502) No Gary. I meant Sineman. I'm fully aware of the lineman. That was a bit overpriced for what it did. We had two Nortel units that we bought ex- telco that did the same thing elegantly. The Sineman was a unit that we received a mailed brochure. I'm looking at it now. The description: Microprocessor controlled test set features: AC voltmeter,Sineadder,Line Level meter,Single and DTMF tone decoding and portable battery operation $550 for a short time. The drawing of the unit shows a square box with a large meter and 16 digit keypad on the right. Bridge and terminate switch. 4 controls labeled Mode, Scale,Vol., Level. This doesn't have the typical appearance of Helper products. It looks like a keypad entry version of the Toner 3,Lineman,Sinadder 3 with DTMF decode added. This arrived after Susan took control of the company. I can scan this and upload it if anyone is interested. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Gary Schafer gaschafer@ wrote: The idea of the dual meter unit was to be able to quickly go thru a circuit without having to touch the meter to change ranges or change to AC or DC. If you stuck it on a DC circuit it would read that right. If you stuck it on an AC circuit it would read that. Also you could read an AC voltage riding on top of a DC voltage. One meter would display the DC and the other the AC value. Kind of handy sometimes. I may have a catalog sheet of it somewhere around here but I haven't run across it in some time, Yes the mod box was ok but didn't sell to well. The other item I assume that you meant lineman. That was a very slick box and sold well. It was a line level meter with tone generator and audio amp/speaker and mike. It had the commonly used tone remote tones built in so you could check the line level at those frequencies. Usually people bought two of them, one to use on each end of a line being tested. You could talk back and forth to the guy on the other end and send each other tones and measure levels each way. 73 Gary K4FMX There were very few combination analog/DVM's at service instrument prices and the DMM's that had bar graphs didn't have the resoloution for trends at the time. I can only think of a few off hand such as the Keithly,Simpson had an early one in a 260 type case with Nixies,Ballentine $, and Fluke . I think Heath had one for a short time too. I'd love to see a picture of this meter. I'm still trying to grasp what was so special about two separate meters for AC and DC. There had to be some of Bill's magic either comparator presets, audible alarm or some neat thing that would make service easier. While the subject is odd Helper stuff, remember the Mod Box or the Sineman? Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Helper Instruments (Voltadder VA 502)
While the subject is odd Helper stuff, remember the Mod Box or the Sineman? I'm a late comer to picking up extra Helper Instrument Equipment but I now have a modest collection of a few items like the Sineadder and a few of the antenna match boxes. I hadn't thought about it for a while but I even have a Mod Box somewhere. It's not nearly as useful as some of their other products still are, but it's at least neat to try and read the manual. I have a Helper Instruments Catalog (one of their last) in my collection (somewhere). I expect my digital scanner to be back on line later this month and I'll be able to make pdf copies available free to any and all parties. cheers, s.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Helper Instruments (Voltadder VA 502)
On Mar 24, 2010, at 11:06 PM, Gary Schafer wrote: Yes he did build some for a few years. They were never a big seller as the price was pretty high. They did work pretty well. It did not have a digital display, only analog meters. There were lights that showed what range it was on. You could read AC on one meter and DC on the other. Handy for some things. I kind of remember him playing around with an attenuator pad to go ahead of a service monitor. I don't remember the wattmeter part though. There was a guy in California making a 40 db power pad to use ahead of a service monitor. It was made during the Singer monitor era to go in front of it. It had a port for the transceiver and one for the signal generator and another for the receive input on the monitor. It worked pretty well. There may be a few floating around yet. Gary: The guy that marketed that 40 db power pad was actually a rep, a real character. I still have the data sheet and picture somewhere here in my library. He used to tell me his real money came from making and selling waders. BTW I do have the schematic and JPEG of the Cushman 40 db pad with the fuse inside. Should I send it to someone? Ciao, Tony, K3WX 73 Gary K4FMX While we're at it, what ever happened to the watt meter that fed a power pad like a termaline with an attenuated output? Was that talk, or did they ever do anything with that?
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Helper Instruments (Voltadder VA 502)
The Mod Box was a great idea during it's time. Only the IFR-1000 at the time had the provision to use a microphone with a pre-emhasis network. Most all the service monitors only allowed an internal tone or external audio gen. Some allowed the mix of both. The Mod box was sort of like a microphone and two source tone mixer. The Power pad was neat b/c unlike an isotee or throughline power attenuator, you could combine both ends of a service monitor, especially one with duplex/offset generation to a device at the same time. Leave it attached permanantly and take into account the attenuation and never worry about accidently frying it. We bought a couple of the Com-Ser (Neo-Lampkin) units. Still have one. These were single port devices based on a thick film hybrid in a big heatsink. They made some neat add-on stuff too. They had a banded, two way amplifier/preselector that raised the flea power output of some of the earlier monitors to +dbm levels, preslected the input and output for clean output and microvolt sensitivity of the monitor for OTA monitoring. Moot point with later monitors of the 80's. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Tony Faiola fai...@... wrote: On Mar 24, 2010, at 11:06 PM, Gary Schafer wrote: Yes he did build some for a few years. They were never a big seller as the price was pretty high. They did work pretty well. It did not have a digital display, only analog meters. There were lights that showed what range it was on. You could read AC on one meter and DC on the other. Handy for some things. I kind of remember him playing around with an attenuator pad to go ahead of a service monitor. I don't remember the wattmeter part though. There was a guy in California making a 40 db power pad to use ahead of a service monitor. It was made during the Singer monitor era to go in front of it. It had a port for the transceiver and one for the signal generator and another for the receive input on the monitor. It worked pretty well. There may be a few floating around yet. Gary: The guy that marketed that 40 db power pad was actually a rep, a real character. I still have the data sheet and picture somewhere here in my library. He used to tell me his real money came from making and selling waders. BTW I do have the schematic and JPEG of the Cushman 40 db pad with the fuse inside. Should I send it to someone? Ciao, Tony, K3WX 73 Gary K4FMX While we're at it, what ever happened to the watt meter that fed a power pad like a termaline with an attenuated output? Was that talk, or did they ever do anything with that?
[Repeater-Builder] RE: Helper Instruments (Voltadder VA 502)
That was an auto ranging voltmeter. They were rather expensive at the time, compared to nowadays. As I remember it you could select auto range, or lock it in a particular range. 73 Gary K4FMX -Original Message- From: Alicia Mehrdad [mailto:abcza...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:26 PM To: gascha...@comcast.net; skipp...@yahoo.com; Repeater- buil...@yahoogroups.com Subject: Helper Instruments (Voltadder VA 502) Hello gentlemen, I found your e-mails on line and I was wondering if you could help me figure out what type of equipment is this, I have a Voltadder Part No. VA 502 from Helper Instruments, it has two windows with a needle meter type and in between the windows it has some lights and number going down. please see example below. -DC + Volts db AC, 500+ 50 150+ 40 50 +30 15 +20 5 +10 1.5 0 db .5-10 .15 -20 . Your help would be greatly appreciated. thank you.
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Helper Instruments (Voltadder VA 502)
Whoa! Bill actually went through with this? I never seen this as a production item although the idea of a service bench Analog/Digital voltmeter was something he was interested in doing. The DMM's A/D section was to go to an integrator and drive a meter for peaking or nulling. My understanding was this was going to be a service grade instrument with a 3 1/2 autoranging digit DMM basic. Was this a protoype? Are there any pics? While we're at it, what ever happened to the watt meter that fed a power pad like a termaline with an attenuated output? Was that talk, or did they ever do anything with that? --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Gary Schafer gascha...@... wrote: That was an auto ranging voltmeter. They were rather expensive at the time, compared to nowadays. As I remember it you could select auto range, or lock it in a particular range. 73 Gary K4FMX -Original Message- From: Alicia Mehrdad [mailto:abcza...@...] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:26 PM To: gascha...@...; skipp...@...; Repeater- buil...@yahoogroups.com Subject: Helper Instruments (Voltadder VA 502) Hello gentlemen, I found your e-mails on line and I was wondering if you could help me figure out what type of equipment is this, I have a Voltadder Part No. VA 502 from Helper Instruments, it has two windows with a needle meter type and in between the windows it has some lights and number going down. please see example below. -DC + Volts db AC, 500+ 50 150+ 40 50 +30 15 +20 5 +10 1.5 0 db .5-10 .15 -20 . Your help would be greatly appreciated. thank you.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Helper Instruments (Voltadder VA 502)
Yes he did build some for a few years. They were never a big seller as the price was pretty high. They did work pretty well. It did not have a digital display, only analog meters. There were lights that showed what range it was on. You could read AC on one meter and DC on the other. Handy for some things. I kind of remember him playing around with an attenuator pad to go ahead of a service monitor. I don't remember the wattmeter part though. There was a guy in California making a 40 db power pad to use ahead of a service monitor. It was made during the Singer monitor era to go in front of it. It had a port for the transceiver and one for the signal generator and another for the receive input on the monitor. It worked pretty well. There may be a few floating around yet. 73 Gary K4FMX -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater- buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dawn Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 4:37 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Helper Instruments (Voltadder VA 502) Whoa! Bill actually went through with this? I never seen this as a production item although the idea of a service bench Analog/Digital voltmeter was something he was interested in doing. The DMM's A/D section was to go to an integrator and drive a meter for peaking or nulling. My understanding was this was going to be a service grade instrument with a 3 1/2 autoranging digit DMM basic. Was this a protoype? Are there any pics? While we're at it, what ever happened to the watt meter that fed a power pad like a termaline with an attenuated output? Was that talk, or did they ever do anything with that? --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Gary Schafer gascha...@... wrote: That was an auto ranging voltmeter. They were rather expensive at the time, compared to nowadays. As I remember it you could select auto range, or lock it in a particular range. 73 Gary K4FMX -Original Message- From: Alicia Mehrdad [mailto:abcza...@...] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:26 PM To: gascha...@...; skipp...@...; Repeater- buil...@yahoogroups.com Subject: Helper Instruments (Voltadder VA 502) Hello gentlemen, I found your e-mails on line and I was wondering if you could help me figure out what type of equipment is this, I have a Voltadder Part No. VA 502 from Helper Instruments, it has two windows with a needle meter type and in between the windows it has some lights and number going down. please see example below. -DC + Volts db AC, 500+ 50 150+ 40 50 +30 15 +20 5 +10 1.5 0 db .5-10 .15 -20 . Your help would be greatly appreciated. thank you. Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Helper Instruments (Voltadder VA 502)
Gary, You're thinking about the Power Pad. We used those for IMTS. IIRC, that wasn't just a regular attenuator, but was a three port device like you said and a fantastic product. Helper was looking into a combination power pad and watt meter right around the time between the Modulation Monitor and the SM512. Com-Ser came out with something like that about the same time integrated into a combination DVM/Wattmeter/Tone Audio counter with a switchable 20/40 db load/pad. That was a great idea too, but it never sold well. They incorporated the same idea into their later service monitor BR1100? Even added an Octopus to the scope section. There were very few combination analog/DVM's at service instrument prices and the DMM's that had bar graphs didn't have the resoloution for trends at the time. I can only think of a few off hand such as the Keithly,Simpson had an early one in a 260 type case with Nixies,Ballentine $, and Fluke . I think Heath had one for a short time too. I'd love to see a picture of this meter. I'm still trying to grasp what was so special about two separate meters for AC and DC. There had to be some of Bill's magic either comparator presets, audible alarm or some neat thing that would make service easier. While the subject is odd Helper stuff, remember the Mod Box or the Sineman? --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Gary Schafer gascha...@... wrote: Yes he did build some for a few years. They were never a big seller as the price was pretty high. They did work pretty well. It did not have a digital display, only analog meters. There were lights that showed what range it was on. You could read AC on one meter and DC on the other. Handy for some things. I kind of remember him playing around with an attenuator pad to go ahead of a service monitor. I don't remember the wattmeter part though. There was a guy in California making a 40 db power pad to use ahead of a service monitor. It was made during the Singer monitor era to go in front of it. It had a port for the transceiver and one for the signal generator and another for the receive input on the monitor. It worked pretty well. There may be a few floating around yet. 73 Gary K4FMX -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater- buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dawn Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 4:37 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Helper Instruments (Voltadder VA 502) Whoa! Bill actually went through with this? I never seen this as a production item although the idea of a service bench Analog/Digital voltmeter was something he was interested in doing. The DMM's A/D section was to go to an integrator and drive a meter for peaking or nulling. My understanding was this was going to be a service grade instrument with a 3 1/2 autoranging digit DMM basic. Was this a protoype? Are there any pics? While we're at it, what ever happened to the watt meter that fed a power pad like a termaline with an attenuated output? Was that talk, or did they ever do anything with that? --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Gary Schafer gaschafer@ wrote: That was an auto ranging voltmeter. They were rather expensive at the time, compared to nowadays. As I remember it you could select auto range, or lock it in a particular range. 73 Gary K4FMX -Original Message- From: Alicia Mehrdad [mailto:abcza...@] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:26 PM To: gaschafer@; skipp025@; Repeater- buil...@yahoogroups.com Subject: Helper Instruments (Voltadder VA 502) Hello gentlemen, I found your e-mails on line and I was wondering if you could help me figure out what type of equipment is this, I have a Voltadder Part No. VA 502 from Helper Instruments, it has two windows with a needle meter type and in between the windows it has some lights and number going down. please see example below. -DC + Volts db AC, 500+ 50 150+ 40 50 +30 15 +20 5 +10 1.5 0 db .5-10 .15 -20 . Your help would be greatly appreciated. thank you. Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Helper Instruments Sinadder Model CML-1
El gusto es mio Bruce... I'm a big fan of Helper Instruments and have a small bit of history regarding the Company. When the founder passed, his daughter tried to keep the ship floating but the original innovation of Helper Products was gone. Eventually... Zetron bought the rights to produce some Helper Products, but those were discontinued when the Radio Service and Repair Market all but dried up. You might check the Zetron site or drop their technical support a note asking if they might have the manual/diagram for that instrument. I might have the manual to the plain-jane sinad meter... the operation is the same but again the C Msg filter is a nice option to have if you need it/one. cheers, skipp [pasted text] Thanks Skipp, for starting me off in the right direction. I've found some interesting reading. My meter arrived and I'm starting to get used to it. Nothing in that specific Model (CML-1) yet, but hopefully I will find that also. 73, Bruce skipp025 wrote: C Weighting Filter, do a google search to find: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weighting_filter It's an audio filter option... nice to have if you need it. s. ve1ii bhar...@... wrote: Hi, could anyone give me some information on what the C MSG feature is for on a Sinadder Model CML-1. There is an on off switch on the front panel for this but I don't know what it is for. Also, if anyone has a file for this particular Sinadder I would sure appreciate obtaining a copy. I think it is basically a Sinadder 3 but am not sure of any differences in it. 73, Bruce, VE1II
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Helper Instruments Sinadder Model CML-1
Bruce and Skipp and group, This discussion made me look in the file cabinet and I found the entire package (instruction manuals, schematics, etc.) for my Sinadder CML-1. The manual is actually for the Linear-5 meter, with an inserted Addendum for the CML-1. I also have a few advertisement sheets and an interesting application note that shows how to make a SINAD measurement. I am too busy over the holiday, but in early December will make a scan for the Repeater Builder library. I will mention this to Eric and he might have a better way to get this out. Jim _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of skipp025 Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 9:03 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Helper Instruments Sinadder Model CML-1 El gusto es mio Bruce... I'm a big fan of Helper Instruments and have a small bit of history regarding the Company. When the founder passed, his daughter tried to keep the ship floating but the original innovation of Helper Products was gone. Eventually... Zetron bought the rights to produce some Helper Products, but those were discontinued when the Radio Service and Repair Market all but dried up. You might check the Zetron site or drop their technical support a note asking if they might have the manual/diagram for that instrument. I might have the manual to the plain-jane sinad meter... the operation is the same but again the C Msg filter is a nice option to have if you need it/one. cheers, skipp [pasted text] Thanks Skipp, for starting me off in the right direction. I've found some interesting reading. My meter arrived and I'm starting to get used to it. Nothing in that specific Model (CML-1) yet, but hopefully I will find that also. 73, Bruce skipp025 wrote: C Weighting Filter, do a google search to find: http://en.wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weighting_filter .org/wiki/Weighting_filter It's an audio filter option... nice to have if you need it. s. ve1ii bhar...@... wrote: Hi, could anyone give me some information on what the C MSG feature is for on a Sinadder Model CML-1. There is an on off switch on the front panel for this but I don't know what it is for. Also, if anyone has a file for this particular Sinadder I would sure appreciate obtaining a copy. I think it is basically a Sinadder 3 but am not sure of any differences in it. 73, Bruce, VE1II
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Helper Instruments Sinadder Model CML-1
See... no good deed goes unpunished... thank you very much for your kind offer Jim. I'd be excited to obtain the information for myself. Makes it hard to be rotten to people... sometimes. s. wa6vpl wa6...@... wrote: Bruce and Skipp and group, This discussion made me look in the file cabinet and I found the entire package (instruction manuals, schematics, etc.) for my Sinadder CML-1. The manual is actually for the Linear-5 meter, with an inserted Addendum for the CML-1. I also have a few advertisement sheets and an interesting application note that shows how to make a SINAD measurement. I am too busy over the holiday, but in early December will make a scan for the Repeater Builder library. I will mention this to Eric and he might have a better way to get this out. Jim _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of skipp025 Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 9:03 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Helper Instruments Sinadder Model CML-1 El gusto es mio Bruce... I'm a big fan of Helper Instruments and have a small bit of history regarding the Company. When the founder passed, his daughter tried to keep the ship floating but the original innovation of Helper Products was gone. Eventually... Zetron bought the rights to produce some Helper Products, but those were discontinued when the Radio Service and Repair Market all but dried up. You might check the Zetron site or drop their technical support a note asking if they might have the manual/diagram for that instrument. I might have the manual to the plain-jane sinad meter... the operation is the same but again the C Msg filter is a nice option to have if you need it/one. cheers, skipp [pasted text] Thanks Skipp, for starting me off in the right direction. I've found some interesting reading. My meter arrived and I'm starting to get used to it. Nothing in that specific Model (CML-1) yet, but hopefully I will find that also. 73, Bruce skipp025 wrote: C Weighting Filter, do a google search to find: http://en.wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weighting_filter .org/wiki/Weighting_filter It's an audio filter option... nice to have if you need it. s. ve1ii bharvey@ wrote: Hi, could anyone give me some information on what the C MSG feature is for on a Sinadder Model CML-1. There is an on off switch on the front panel for this but I don't know what it is for. Also, if anyone has a file for this particular Sinadder I would sure appreciate obtaining a copy. I think it is basically a Sinadder 3 but am not sure of any differences in it. 73, Bruce, VE1II
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Helper Instruments
I went a step farther with my handheld Bearcat scanner and placed it in a steel pie cake pan with a cover I made from aluminum flashing. A few clothes pins around the cover sealed the signal up so that the only external signal came from the BNC feed through connector mounted on the side of the cake pan. I put a 10 dB pad internal between the scanner and the connector and then used a step attenuator external to the cake pan to set the level to the receiver I was trying to tune. I used it to tune a transmitter to frequency also by zero beating the Bearcat signal into a receiver. My Bearcat had a 10.8 mHz IF and I kept a calculator handy to add 10.8 to whatever frequency I wanted. The second harmonic of the LO in that old handheld worked great to intercept the analog cell sites in the area. You could take the antenna off and the reception did not change on the cell frequencies. Setting the cell frequencies minus 10.8 divided by two then plus 10.8 gave me the 440 frequencies to program into the scanner. 73 - Jim W5ZIT --- On Thu, 12/25/08, n...@no6b.com n...@no6b.com wrote: From: n...@no6b.com n...@no6b.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Helper Instruments To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, December 25, 2008, 11:44 AM At 12/24/2008 12:45, you wrote: The SM-512 is a service monitor that covers 1 to 512 MHz if memory serves correctly. It has a built in Sinadder and Millivolt meter. The system was designed around a Bearcat scanner. When Bearcat quit making ...and everyone thought I was nuts for using a Regency scanner as a deviation monitor signal generator. Bob NO6B ,___
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Helper Instruments
At 12/25/2008 12:06, you wrote: n...@... wrote: ...and everyone thought I was nuts for using a Regency scanner as a deviation monitor signal generator. Bob NO6B Well, it's not just because of that... Sorry Bob... I couldn't help myself... :-) I myself also tried using the Bearcat, Radio Shack, Uniden and GRE Scanners as rough test equipment... but I could only get relative accuracy at best. The deviation meter indication was not ultra stable or precise but it was kind of neat to look at. Still... when I had a lot more time and not much money (still not much money) they were relatively usable for ham applications. Deviation measurement using a scanner is inaccurate unless some mods are done to the RX. I made 2 mods to mine. One was removing the 455 kHz IF filter so that the incoming deviation wasn't shaped in any way by the IF. The other, on advice of Burt K6OQK, was to load the discriminator coil with resistance so as to flatten the response at the expense of discriminator output level. After performing these two mods it was compared against an IFR 1200 or 1500 (can't remember which) service monitor found to be quite close. Bob NO6B
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Helper Instruments
Hi Skipp, What's a Helper RF millivoltmeter manual worth to you? I have one that I will scan for you when I get back home in a couple of weeks. No charge. 73 Gary K4FMX -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater- buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of skipp025 Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 1:27 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Helper Instruments Hi Dan, Glad to see you chimed in on this thread. Dan Graybeal dangerousengineer...@... wrote: The SM-512 is a service monitor that covers 1 to 512 MHz if memory serves correctly. I had incorrectly posted the follow up model as the SM-1024, but it was actually the SM-1000 as later indicated. (I was thinking in hex again...) It has a built in Sinadder and Millivolt meter. The system was designed around a Bearcat scanner. When Bearcat quit making the scanner, the system was redesigned from scratch and expanded to go to 1GHz, hence the SM-1000. If you look at the boards inside the SM-512 you will be able to identify the Bearcat model from the processor board. And more than one of us learned to use a Bearcat Scanner as a fairly strong signal source. Really neat Helper Instrument trivia... More than a few of the (now retired) local/regional Comm Shop Owners have told me stories of how a Helper Sales Rep would often loan Sinadder and similar demo products out to a shop to quickly prove their real on the service bench dollar value. Not only were the Helper Products well thought out, but those early sales folks including Bill were quite innovative. We made a bunch of neat stuff at Helper while Bill Detwiller (the owner) was still alive. I have a transitional Helper Catalog where shortly after Bill's passing his daughter announced a plan to go forward and continue operations. Not much is known to us the general public about the wind down of production and operation of Helper. As a Zetron Products Dealer one of the inside technical products support people told me about their purchase of some Helper Products, which were later discontinued as the Land Mobile Industry started to fall out of bed. I will look to see if I still have a users manual for either of these still around. I have a modest number of Helper Instrument Manuals but nothing for the Service Monitors or the RF Millivolt Meter, which I would pay dearly for (a copy of the RF mV Meter manual). Of course anyone nice enough to share would know I (or others) would pdf scan the manuals and donate copies to the Repeater-Builder and other similar web sites. The Helper 800 cell antenna performance instrument works fairly well for low 900 Amateur Band work. Not to mention the even more rare 460 band version. cheers, skipp skipp025 at yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Helper Instruments
The SM-512 is a service monitor that covers 1 to 512 MHz if memory serves correctly. It has a built in Sinadder and Millivolt meter. The system was designed around a Bearcat scanner. When Bearcat quit making the scanner, the system was redesigned from scratch and expanded to go to 1GHz, hence the SM-1000. If you look at the boards inside the SM-512 you will be able to identify the Bearcat model from the processor board. We made a bunch of neat stuff at Helper while Bill Detwiller (the owner) was still alive. I will look to see if I still have a users manual for either of these still around. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, wb8art wb8...@... wrote: Hi Mike, Best I can find out it is called a service monitor, hence SM in model no.. Has Sinadder function as well as monitor RX and signal generator and modulator, deviation, and off frequency detector meter. Randy --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Mike Morris WA6ILQ wa6ilq@ wrote: At 04:06 PM 12/22/08, you wrote: Anyone have a operations manual and or service manual for a Helper Instruments SM-512 Randy Is that a Sinadder, an RG voltmeter, or another type of equipment?
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Helper Instruments
At 12/24/2008 12:45, you wrote: The SM-512 is a service monitor that covers 1 to 512 MHz if memory serves correctly. It has a built in Sinadder and Millivolt meter. The system was designed around a Bearcat scanner. When Bearcat quit making ...and everyone thought I was nuts for using a Regency scanner as a deviation monitor signal generator. Bob NO6B
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Helper Instruments
Hi Dan, Glad to see you chimed in on this thread. Dan Graybeal dangerousengineer...@... wrote: The SM-512 is a service monitor that covers 1 to 512 MHz if memory serves correctly. I had incorrectly posted the follow up model as the SM-1024, but it was actually the SM-1000 as later indicated. (I was thinking in hex again...) It has a built in Sinadder and Millivolt meter. The system was designed around a Bearcat scanner. When Bearcat quit making the scanner, the system was redesigned from scratch and expanded to go to 1GHz, hence the SM-1000. If you look at the boards inside the SM-512 you will be able to identify the Bearcat model from the processor board. And more than one of us learned to use a Bearcat Scanner as a fairly strong signal source. Really neat Helper Instrument trivia... More than a few of the (now retired) local/regional Comm Shop Owners have told me stories of how a Helper Sales Rep would often loan Sinadder and similar demo products out to a shop to quickly prove their real on the service bench dollar value. Not only were the Helper Products well thought out, but those early sales folks including Bill were quite innovative. We made a bunch of neat stuff at Helper while Bill Detwiller (the owner) was still alive. I have a transitional Helper Catalog where shortly after Bill's passing his daughter announced a plan to go forward and continue operations. Not much is known to us the general public about the wind down of production and operation of Helper. As a Zetron Products Dealer one of the inside technical products support people told me about their purchase of some Helper Products, which were later discontinued as the Land Mobile Industry started to fall out of bed. I will look to see if I still have a users manual for either of these still around. I have a modest number of Helper Instrument Manuals but nothing for the Service Monitors or the RF Millivolt Meter, which I would pay dearly for (a copy of the RF mV Meter manual). Of course anyone nice enough to share would know I (or others) would pdf scan the manuals and donate copies to the Repeater-Builder and other similar web sites. The Helper 800 cell antenna performance instrument works fairly well for low 900 Amateur Band work. Not to mention the even more rare 460 band version. cheers, skipp skipp025 at yahoo.com
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Helper Instruments
n...@... wrote: ...and everyone thought I was nuts for using a Regency scanner as a deviation monitor signal generator. Bob NO6B Well, it's not just because of that... Sorry Bob... I couldn't help myself... :-) I myself also tried using the Bearcat, Radio Shack, Uniden and GRE Scanners as rough test equipment... but I could only get relative accuracy at best. The deviation meter indication was not ultra stable or precise but it was kind of neat to look at. Still... when I had a lot more time and not much money (still not much money) they were relatively usable for ham applications. Interesting to learn Helper was able to tame a Bearcat Scanner PLL enough to make it into a viable test instrument. The Bearcat 210 series scanners at the time seemed to have a mondo strong VCO chain/PLL output... easily heard outside the box and (I'm told) was very much fun being possibly used for a short time to jam a nearby grouchy old ham on 2 meters if an outside antennae was used. And you learned not all scanner receiver IF frequencies were 10.7 MHz. Other Neat'o scanner mod tricks I found, tried, and used were the added SSB BFO circuit (and separate detected output), COS/COR logic outputs, buffered discriminator output, external frequency converter frequency steering logic and low current DC outputs (which I still use to this day). I spent a fair amount of time inside 70's and 80's vintage Radio Shack Scanners to add out of normal frequency range and external rx-converter operation. What often starts life as one type of communications device can often be used for many other functions. And of course many hams in early attempts to construct a repeater hopes his/her scanner receiver will work in the application... only in most cases to be sorely disappointed. Early Radio Shack Scanners were easy to mod because the Service Manuals could be fairly easily obtained. cheers, s. At 12/24/2008 12:45, you wrote: The SM-512 is a service monitor that covers 1 to 512 MHz if memory serves correctly. It has a built in Sinadder and Millivolt meter. The system was designed around a Bearcat scanner.
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Helper Instruments
Necessity is the mother of invention. You are not alone in the universe my friend. rtc. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, n...@... wrote: ...and everyone thought I was nuts for using a Regency scanner as a deviation monitor signal generator. Bob NO6B
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Helper Instruments
Hi Mike, Best I can find out it is called a service monitor, hence SM in model no.. Has Sinadder function as well as monitor RX and signal generator and modulator, deviation, and off frequency detector meter. Randy --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Mike Morris WA6ILQ wa6...@... wrote: At 04:06 PM 12/22/08, you wrote: Anyone have a operations manual and or service manual for a Helper Instruments SM-512 Randy Is that a Sinadder, an RG voltmeter, or another type of equipment?
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Helper Instruments SM-512 and SM-1024
Hi Randy, You'll be hard pressed to find the Service Manual unless one of the manual sharks (people selling manuals) has one. The only other source I've seen for the manual has been one or two of the SM-512 units I've seen up on Ebay in the last two years. A fairly well thought out basic service monitor. Like most every Helper Product ahead of it's time and made with saving the comm tech time and money. Later version was the SM-1024. Helper Instruments was in Florida, growing out of a line of well thought out instruments targeted toward the Two-way radio industry. The owner of Helper passed and his daughter tried to keep things going but was unable to continue with new innovative products that separated Helper from the competition. Sometime later she sold interest in some specific Helper Products to Zetron. After a short time even Zetron discontinued production of their Helper Instruments products. The SM-512 Service monitor (and the later SM-1024) were very special animals (products) not produced or continued by Zetron. The one NY located service center (person) for the SM-512 passed some years back and the legacy of Helper slowly fades into history. I have a fair number of Helper Instrument Products and manuals... but sorry nothing for the SM-512 and SM-1024. cheers, skipp skipp025 at yahoo.com wb8art wb8...@... wrote: Anyone have a operations manual and or service manual for a Helper Instruments SM-512 Randy
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Helper Instruments SM-512 and SM-1024
Helper never printed a service manual for the SM512. Only a operators manual was ever issued. It does have a schematic and some adjustment information in it. I have a copy of the manual. I thought I had it with me at my temp qth but I don't see it. If you will email me after the 1st of the year I should be able to find it and will send it along. 73 Gary K4FMX -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater- buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of skipp025 Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 8:19 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Helper Instruments SM-512 and SM-1024 Hi Randy, You'll be hard pressed to find the Service Manual unless one of the manual sharks (people selling manuals) has one. The only other source I've seen for the manual has been one or two of the SM-512 units I've seen up on Ebay in the last two years. A fairly well thought out basic service monitor. Like most every Helper Product ahead of it's time and made with saving the comm tech time and money. Later version was the SM-1024. Helper Instruments was in Florida, growing out of a line of well thought out instruments targeted toward the Two-way radio industry. The owner of Helper passed and his daughter tried to keep things going but was unable to continue with new innovative products that separated Helper from the competition. Sometime later she sold interest in some specific Helper Products to Zetron. After a short time even Zetron discontinued production of their Helper Instruments products. The SM-512 Service monitor (and the later SM-1024) were very special animals (products) not produced or continued by Zetron. The one NY located service center (person) for the SM-512 passed some years back and the legacy of Helper slowly fades into history. I have a fair number of Helper Instrument Products and manuals... but sorry nothing for the SM-512 and SM-1024. cheers, skipp skipp025 at yahoo.com wb8art wb8...@... wrote: Anyone have a operations manual and or service manual for a Helper Instruments SM-512 Randy Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Helper Instruments SM-512 and SM-1024
Skipp, Don't forget the Helper SM-1000 Service Monitor. I owned one for a couple of years, and then upgraded to an IFR FM/AM 1200. My latest monitor is a Motorola R2600D, which I love. The SM-1000 was a very basic and simple unit that met its claimed accuracy specifications. Perhaps its only drawback was that the oven-stabilized time base was not automatically synchronized with the frequency generating or measuring circuits; you had to manually tweak the CAL knob to zero the error meter before every reading. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of skipp025 Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 6:19 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Helper Instruments SM-512 and SM-1024 Hi Randy, You'll be hard pressed to find the Service Manual unless one of the manual sharks (people selling manuals) has one. The only other source I've seen for the manual has been one or two of the SM-512 units I've seen up on Ebay in the last two years. A fairly well thought out basic service monitor. Like most every Helper Product ahead of its time and made with saving the comm tech time and money. Later version was the SM-1024. Helper Instruments was in Florida, growing out of a line of well thought out instruments targeted toward the Two-way radio industry. The owner of Helper passed and his daughter tried to keep things going but was unable to continue with new innovative products that separated Helper from the competition. Sometime later she sold interest in some specific Helper Products to Zetron. After a short time even Zetron discontinued production of their Helper Instruments products. The SM-512 Service monitor (and the later SM-1024) were very special animals (products) not produced or continued by Zetron. The one NY located service center (person) for the SM-512 passed some years back and the legacy of Helper slowly fades into history. I have a fair number of Helper Instrument Products and manuals... but sorry nothing for the SM-512 and SM-1024. cheers, skipp skipp025 at yahoo.com wb8art wb8...@... wrote: Anyone have a operations manual and or service manual for a Helper Instruments SM-512? Randy
