Ecrix VXA 33/66 tapes with Retrospect
Hi Backup People, I have set up one of my clients with an Ecrix VXA tape drive using the above media. It was my understanding that with the hardware compression built into the drive turned on I would get the full 66 Gig capacity. My client has just rung me to say that Retrospect is requesting a new tape a quick inspection (over the phone via my client) of the original tape in the scheduled backup set revealed that it has used 33 Gig. I will have to go investigate this but could someone who knows please tell me if I need to have software compression turned on to get 66 Gig out of the tape or is there something else making Retrospect ask for another tape. The backup set which was due to be used tonight was set A Retrospect is saying that it will call the new tape 2-set A which makes me think it probably is full. Thanks in advance to anyone who takes the time to reply Regards -- Rob Findlay Mactherapy - Solutions Support For Macintosh Computers http://www.mactherapy.com * -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Search: http://www.mail-archive.com/retro-talk%40latchkey.com/ For urgent issues, please contact Dantz technical support directly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 925.253.3050.
How can a client name change?
I use a Mac to backup a Dell PIII to a DAT drive. (This was an evolution, not a new setup.) Yesterday I realized that the backup wasn't working because the name of the PC had changed from "Dell PIII Accounting" to "111ES" about a week ago. Any ideas as to what could have done this? And the odds of intentional action by the direct staff are quite low. The machine is on the internet via an ADSL line through IPNR on a 7100. No ports are mapped to the Dell. And email isn't used on the Dell. Only surfing. So are there any reasonable accidental ways this could have happened. Could it be a virus picked up via surfing? TIA -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Search: http://www.mail-archive.com/retro-talk%40latchkey.com/ For urgent issues, please contact Dantz technical support directly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 925.253.3050.
Re: Error -36 (i/o error, bad media?)
The drive where the shap shots are stored is full or corrupt. I had a similar one a while back and it turned out the drive directory was all messed up. Up until recently, I was running Retrospect 4.3 on a Power Mac 9600, and backing up servers and workstations (I work for a book publisher) to a Quantum DLT8000 tape drive. A few weeks ago, however, I got a brand new G4/466. It's a fairly standard setup (512MB RAM, 30GB IDE HD, Adaptec 2906 SCSI card, Adaptec 2940UW card, Virex 5.9.1). However, as soon as I ran a backup, I began receiving client errors similar to the following -2/28/2001 11:02:17 PM: Copying Susan McBride on Susan McBride Couldn't write Snapshot, error -36 (i/o error, bad media?) 2/28/2001 11:22:11 PM: 1 execution errors Completed: 2479 files, 1.7 GB Performance: 85.2 MB/minute Duration: 00:19:54 (00:00:13 idle/loading/preparing) This happens both during normal and recycle backups, but not on all machines. Each computer generates a single error during the backup. In addition, I receive numerous errors on my G4 (940 of them this morning, as a matter of fact), similar to the following - Can't read file 3Macintosh HD:Applications (Mac OS 9):Acrobat Reader 4.0:Resource:CMap:AdobeFnt.lst2, error -36 (i/o error, bad media?). These files, obviously, aren't getting backed up. Norton Utilities doesn't show anything amiss on the hard drive, and I've run other utilities as well. I have dumped preferences, reinstalled Retrospect (along with the ADK v1.8 and Driver Update 2.1), swapped out media, and recreated my backup scripts. The computer works great, except for this little problem. Looking at the restore options, the snapshots look fine, and I can restore files, even from the backups that are generating errors. But still, I get this error every morning...and that makes me nervous. -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Search: http://www.mail-archive.com/retro-talk%40latchkey.com/ For urgent issues, please contact Dantz technical support directly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 925.253.3050.
Re: Macintosh IDE CD-R/RW Support?
I tried that as well, but it does not add support for any IDE CD-RW devices... There's an RDU 2.1 (Retrospect Driver Update) on their site. It adds support for new CD-RW and tape drives from LaCie, Panasonic, QPS, Quantum, Seagate, Sony, Yamaha, and others. For Mac users, the update also allows Retrospect to correctly recognize the Ecrix VXA AutoPAK and corrects a media spanning issue with certain TEAC CD-RW drives. (above is paraphrased from their ReadMe, I think) -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Search: http://www.mail-archive.com/retro-talk%40latchkey.com/ For urgent issues, please contact Dantz technical support directly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 925.253.3050. -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Search: http://www.mail-archive.com/retro-talk%40latchkey.com/ For urgent issues, please contact Dantz technical support directly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 925.253.3050.
Re: Error -36 (i/o error, bad media?)
On 3/1/2001 7:37 AM, "Brian Caskey" wrote: The computer works great, except for this little problem. Looking at the restore options, the snapshots look fine, and I can restore files, even from the backups that are generating errors. But still, I get this error every morning...and that makes me nervous. Experience tells me that if Retrospect is saying there's a problem, then there's a problem. You might try running DiskWarrior on the drive. It frequently fixes things that Norton doesn't (you don't say what version of Norton you're using or what version of the OS is running, btw). Of course, just because the computer is new doesn't mean it's perfect. Sometimes even new stuff doesn't work (don't even get me started here...). Also check the PowerDomain control panel to be sure the scsi cards are configured correctly. It's also possible that your cables inside the computer aren't connected perfectly. You might want to reseat the ATA cable to the drive. Just some thoughts, Pam -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Search: http://www.mail-archive.com/retro-talk%40latchkey.com/ For urgent issues, please contact Dantz technical support directly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 925.253.3050.
Re: Ecrix VXA 33/66 tapes with Retrospect
on 3/1/01 6:59 AM, Douglas K Wyman at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have set up one of my clients with an Ecrix VXA tape drive using the above media. It was my understanding that with the hardware compression built into the drive turned on I would get the full 66 Gig capacity. My client has just rung me to say that Retrospect is requesting a new tape a quick inspection (over the phone via my client) of the original tape in the scheduled backup set revealed that it has used 33 Gig. I will have to go investigate this but could someone who knows please tell me if I need to have software compression turned on to get 66 Gig out of the tape or is there something else making Retrospect ask for another tape. 66gig is the maximum at optimum performance. IE: backing up word files on a local drive. I have the latest firmware in my drive and while it helped I still only get about 34-38 gig per tape. My setup is a dedicated machine running over a switched 100baseT network backing up mainly graphics files. I get 180meg/min. I am very happy with this as graphics files are very compressible (sp?). Garret --- Garret J. Cleversley | Vice President | Apple Product Professional CPI Digital Services, Inc. | Center Page, Inc. | 716-822-2212 Certified Apple Technician | Apple Solution Experts, Consultant A+ Network+ Certified, Member - CompTIA IT Professionals --- -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Search: http://www.mail-archive.com/retro-talk%40latchkey.com/ For urgent issues, please contact Dantz technical support directly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 925.253.3050.
Re: Ecrix VXA 33/66 tapes with Retrospect
Retrospect will detect that the drive has compression and will override the software settings, so having software compression enabled should not affect performance if you are running Retrospect 4.3 with Ecrix's latest firmware. Regards, Irena Solomon Dantz Technical Support 925.253.3050 From: Rob Findlay [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Ecrix VXA 33/66 tapes with Retrospect That's what I wanted to know Thanks Garret. Thanks also to Douglas who suggested I upgrade the firmware. Does anyone use software compression or is this a waste of time? I'm sure it slows things down even more. -- Rob Findlay Mactherapy - Solutions Support For Macintosh Computers http://www.mactherapy.com * From: "Garret J. Cleversley" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: "retro-talk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 11:04:19 -0500 To: retrospect [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Ecrix VXA 33/66 tapes with Retrospect on 3/1/01 6:59 AM, Douglas K Wyman at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have set up one of my clients with an Ecrix VXA tape drive using the above media. It was my understanding that with the hardware compression built into the drive turned on I would get the full 66 Gig capacity. My client has just rung me to say that Retrospect is requesting a new tape a quick inspection (over the phone via my client) of the original tape in the scheduled backup set revealed that it has used 33 Gig. I will have to go investigate this but could someone who knows please tell me if I need to have software compression turned on to get 66 Gig out of the tape or is there something else making Retrospect ask for another tape. 66gig is the maximum at optimum performance. IE: backing up word files on a local drive. I have the latest firmware in my drive and while it helped I still only get about 34-38 gig per tape. My setup is a dedicated machine running over a switched 100baseT network backing up mainly graphics files. I get 180meg/min. I am very happy with this as graphics files are very compressible (sp?). Garret -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Search: http://www.mail-archive.com/retro-talk%40latchkey.com/ For urgent issues, please contact Dantz technical support directly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 925.253.3050.
Re: Backup Problems
I got a 40G Maxtor Firewire Drive. I just got it yesterday, so not sure about the whine yet. But, it is a room which is not very quick anyway, so I doubt I would hear it anyway. I have a Lacie DDS-3 Tape Drive. I have had it for at least a year now, and it is working pretty well. No complaints. Jeff -- Jeff Grossman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Director - Information Systems, Turner's Outdoorsman http://www.turners.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: CropCircle Research International Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 01:57:27 -0500 To: Jeff Grossman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Backup Problems jeff - you're describing my soon-to-be situation to a 'T': I'll be buying an EXTERNAL IEEE 30gig probably tomorrow, using it for backup of my G4/400 AGP/9.0.4 -- I don't have a tape drive yet, but am plannng on buying one in the near future. questions: 1) what kind of IEEE drive do you have? So many brands: Maxtor, Western Digital, EZQuest, IBM. Is yrs QUIET (ie, it doesn't have a high-pitched whine that goes thru yr head and gives you a fever from the neck up), and is it reliable? 2) what kind of tape backup system did you decide on? are you happy with it? is it reliable? I'm leaning towards an HP DDS-3 or -4 ... IF it's compatible with Macs ... I'm not sure about this 3) pls, if anyone writes to you privately, I'd appreciate getting a Fwd re: what the fix will be to get the Firewire drive synched-up with yr 'puter. (I figure the more info I have going in, the easier my own set-up ... I'm out here in the boonies, no helpers around at all ...) thanks kindly, - ilyes -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Search: http://www.mail-archive.com/retro-talk%40latchkey.com/ For urgent issues, please contact Dantz technical support directly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 925.253.3050.
Re: Error -36 (i/o error, bad media?)
Hello, Sometimes the Disk First Aid utility and even Norton can not detect the -36 error. Apple's Drive Setup does not do a "low level format" on IDE hard disks, which means that bad blocks (-36 errors) will not be fixed by using the format option in Drive Setup. Zero all data is also not helpful. You should run the "test disk" option in Drive Setup. This will look for and repair bad blocks (sector sparing as Apple calls it). Apple's TIL entry for this error: Type -36 error (I/O Errors) This file is having difficulty while either reading from the drive or writing to the drive. The file may have been improperly written data to the drive or the hard drive or disk may be damaged. This is almost always indicative of a media error (hard error on the disk). Sometimes (rarely) it is transient. Solutions: Try copying the file to another drive. Use a disk recovery software, such as Disk First Aid to examine the disk. You can try rebooting with all extensions off. Once in a while this will allow you to read the data. The file in question should be restored from a backup that was stored on a different disk. Regular backups can reduce the time to recover from this error. Regards, Irena Solomon Dantz Technical Support 925.253.3050 Try our new Searchable Knowledgebase at: http://partners.dantz.com:591/faq/ From: Pam Lefkowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Error -36 (i/o error, bad media?) On 3/1/2001 7:37 AM, "Brian Caskey" wrote: The computer works great, except for this little problem. Looking at the restore options, the snapshots look fine, and I can restore files, even from the backups that are generating errors. But still, I get this error every morning...and that makes me nervous. Experience tells me that if Retrospect is saying there's a problem, then there's a problem. You might try running DiskWarrior on the drive. It frequently fixes things that Norton doesn't (you don't say what version of Norton you're using or what version of the OS is running, btw). Of course, just because the computer is new doesn't mean it's perfect. Sometimes even new stuff doesn't work (don't even get me started here...). Also check the PowerDomain control panel to be sure the scsi cards are configured correctly. It's also possible that your cables inside the computer aren't connected perfectly. You might want to reseat the ATA cable to the drive. Just some thoughts, Pam -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Search: http://www.mail-archive.com/retro-talk%40latchkey.com/ For urgent issues, please contact Dantz technical support directly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 925.253.3050.
Re: Ecrix VXA 33/66 tapes with Retrospect
That's what I wanted to know Thanks Garret. Thanks also to Douglas who suggested I upgrade the firmware. Does anyone use software compression or is this a waste of time? I'm sure it slows things down even more. -- Rob Findlay Mactherapy - Solutions Support For Macintosh Computers http://www.mactherapy.com * From: "Garret J. Cleversley" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: "retro-talk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 11:04:19 -0500 To: retrospect [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Ecrix VXA 33/66 tapes with Retrospect on 3/1/01 6:59 AM, Douglas K Wyman at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have set up one of my clients with an Ecrix VXA tape drive using the above media. It was my understanding that with the hardware compression built into the drive turned on I would get the full 66 Gig capacity. My client has just rung me to say that Retrospect is requesting a new tape a quick inspection (over the phone via my client) of the original tape in the scheduled backup set revealed that it has used 33 Gig. I will have to go investigate this but could someone who knows please tell me if I need to have software compression turned on to get 66 Gig out of the tape or is there something else making Retrospect ask for another tape. 66gig is the maximum at optimum performance. IE: backing up word files on a local drive. I have the latest firmware in my drive and while it helped I still only get about 34-38 gig per tape. My setup is a dedicated machine running over a switched 100baseT network backing up mainly graphics files. I get 180meg/min. I am very happy with this as graphics files are very compressible (sp?). Garret --- Garret J. Cleversley | Vice President | Apple Product Professional CPI Digital Services, Inc. | Center Page, Inc. | 716-822-2212 Certified Apple Technician | Apple Solution Experts, Consultant A+ Network+ Certified, Member - CompTIA IT Professionals --- -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Search: http://www.mail-archive.com/retro-talk%40latchkey.com/ For urgent issues, please contact Dantz technical support directly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 925.253.3050. -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Search: http://www.mail-archive.com/retro-talk%40latchkey.com/ For urgent issues, please contact Dantz technical support directly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 925.253.3050.
Re: Ecrix VXA 33/66 tapes with Retrospect
on 3/1/01 11:28 AM, Rob Findlay at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone use software compression or is this a waste of time? I'm sure it slows things down even more. It slows it down and is unneeded as hardware compression is built in. Garret --- Garret J. Cleversley | Vice President | Apple Product Professional CPI Digital Services, Inc. | Center Page, Inc. | 716-822-2212 Certified Apple Technician | Apple Solution Experts, Consultant A+ Network+ Certified, Member - CompTIA IT Professionals --- -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Search: http://www.mail-archive.com/retro-talk%40latchkey.com/ For urgent issues, please contact Dantz technical support directly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 925.253.3050.
Re: Ecrix VXA 33/66 tapes with Retrospect
on 3/1/01 8:04 AM, "Garret J. Cleversley" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am very happy with this as graphics files are very compressible (sp?). Garret Eh? It really depends on the type of file you are compressing. If the image (or any data for that matter) is already stored in a compressed format (for example, .gif images are stored compressed), then there is absolutely no gain and in fact, you might have a negative effect. For example, a quick and dirty test: I have a .gif file on disk that is: 12,461 bytes Compressed with Stuffit, the image becomes: 12,677 bytes It is actually LARGER in compressed format! Just wanted to clarify that statement lest anyone become enamored with the idea that all graphic files compress well. thanks, -jon -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Search: http://www.mail-archive.com/retro-talk%40latchkey.com/ For urgent issues, please contact Dantz technical support directly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 925.253.3050.
RE: Ecrix VXA 33/66 tapes with Retrospect
You do run the risk of expanding your data if you back it up with compression... but that depends on the drive technology. For example, the AIT algo for compression checks to see if the data is compressible before writing it. If the data is compressible, it writes a compressed block. If the data is not compressible (.gif, .jpg, etc), then it writes an uncompressed block. It's able to do that on-the-fly and still meet the rated transfer speed. By using this method, you do not run the risk of expanding your data when it is pre-compressed. That's why I encourage all of our AIT customers to keep hardware compression activated. With other technologies that we distribute, I advise that they turn compression off when dealing with non-linear video, audio or pre-compressed graphics, otherwise they will not store the full capacity. Steve www.cybernetics.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Daniel O'Donnell Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 2:12 PM To: retro-talk Subject: Re: Ecrix VXA 33/66 tapes with Retrospect I was puzzled by the statement as well. The biggest files these days tend to be motion graphics or animations such as QuickTime or MPEG. QT and MPEG are already compressed and will show very little if any subsequent compression. At 10:23 AM -0800 on 3/1/01, Jon Stevens wrote: on 3/1/01 8:04 AM, "Garret J. Cleversley" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am very happy with this as graphics files are very compressible (sp?). Garret Eh? It really depends on the type of file you are compressing. If the image (or any data for that matter) is already stored in a compressed format (for example, .gif images are stored compressed), then there is absolutely no gain and in fact, you might have a negative effect. For example, a quick and dirty test: I have a .gif file on disk that is: 12,461 bytes Compressed with Stuffit, the image becomes: 12,677 bytes It is actually LARGER in compressed format! Just wanted to clarify that statement lest anyone become enamored with the idea that all graphic files compress well. thanks, -jon -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Search: http://www.mail-archive.com/retro-talk%40latchkey.com/ For urgent issues, please contact Dantz technical support directly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 925.253.3050. -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Search: http://www.mail-archive.com/retro-talk%40latchkey.com/ For urgent issues, please contact Dantz technical support directly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 925.253.3050.
Re: Ecrix VXA 33/66 tapes with Retrospect
At 18:48 +0800 3/1/01, Rob Findlay wrote: Hi Backup People, I have set up one of my clients with an Ecrix VXA tape drive using the above media. It was my understanding that with the hardware compression built into the drive turned on I would get the full 66 Gig capacity. My client has just rung me to say that Retrospect is requesting a new tape a quick inspection (over the phone via my client) of the original tape in the scheduled backup set revealed that it has used 33 Gig. I will have to go investigate this but could someone who knows please tell me if I need to have software compression turned on to get 66 Gig out of the tape or is there something else making Retrospect ask for another tape. For maximum capacity... 1. make sure VXA drive has the latest firmware 2. make sure VXA drive has hardware compression turned on 3. make sure VXA drive favors capacity over speed There are 2 settings, when configuring the VXA drive, that that affect tape capacity... capacity [ device] [capacity] [y or n] set_compression [ device] [set_compression] [y or n] I believe that the factory defaults are: set_compression y capacity n At 11:42 -0600 3/1/01, Douglas K Wyman wrote: Streaming tape drives (virtually all modern drives including Exabyte, DDS-DAT, AIT, VXA, DLT, LTO etc) have a real-time requirement for data flow. If the backups system is not able to keep the tape drive buffer above its low water mark, the drive will start writing extended record gaps (tape with no user data; the lexicon and semantics vary from vendor to vendor) in order to avoid stopping the tape motion while waiting for data. Obviously this consumes more tape than if all data records were written contiguously without record gaps. Doug, My understanding is that the VXA drive does packet writes and has a variable speed writing mechanism and thus has much less of a problem with inter-record gaps (gaps of about 100k per pause with capacity turned on with about a 10% loss in speed) (I'll Bcc: Ecrix tech support on this just in case I have the info wrong.) -- -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ben Liberman -- -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Search: http://www.mail-archive.com/retro-talk%40latchkey.com/ For urgent issues, please contact Dantz technical support directly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 925.253.3050.
Re: Ecrix VXA 33/66 tapes with Retrospect
At 1:41 PM -0600 3/1/01, Ben Liberman wrote: 1. make sure VXA drive has the latest firmware 2. make sure VXA drive has hardware compression turned on 3. make sure VXA drive favors capacity over speed There are 2 settings, when configuring the VXA drive, that that affect tape capacity... capacity [ device] [capacity] [y or n] set_compression [ device] [set_compression] [y or n] I believe that the factory defaults are: set_compression y capacity n My understanding is that the VXA drive does packet writes and has a variable speed writing mechanism and thus has much less of a problem with inter-record gaps (gaps of about 100k per pause with capacity turned on with about a 10% loss in speed) Ben, I agree that Ecrix is the company most visibly in touch with this problem. The principals of the company came from Exabyte and learned from the experience. The VXA drives do a great deal to compensate for data starvation, particularly considering the low price point of the product. Setting the VXA drive parameter to favour capacity, however, will still increase the number of shoe-shines due to data starvation and therefore increase the backup time. You make your choices and take your chances, as they say. Good comments, taken in context! Doug.Wyman Houston TX -- -- To subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives:http://list.working-dogs.com/lists/retro-talk/ Search: http://www.mail-archive.com/retro-talk%40latchkey.com/ For urgent issues, please contact Dantz technical support directly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 925.253.3050.
