Re: Really Stop execution dialog box

[Larry Acosta Wong]

An indirect solution to your problem would be to install Dan 
Walkowski's Okey Dokey Pro which "presses the default button in modal 
dialogs after a time limit."



At 11:00 AM -0500 10/23/00, Gary R. Bernstein wrote:
>OK. I am at about my wits end with this. Hopefully, somewhere here knows
>of a solution. I have three machines (2 servers and 1 machine that backs
>up my users) that all occasionally have this problem. Lately, the problem
>has been getting worse.
>
>All of my backups are set to run at night. (actually all are set to run
>after midnight except for 2 scripts on the backup server which start to
>run at 6pm).
>
>On many mornings, I will come in and find a dialog box on the server that
>says "Do you really want to quit or stop backups" with a OK or resume
>button. At this point, no backups have occured. If I click resume, backups
>start (which can be a problem on the servers if they take long or I get in
>late). If I click cancel, then no backups occur.
>
>My machines (we will focus on the backup server) is running version 4.2a
>retrospect software and is running on a blue and white g3. It has plenty
>of memory and plenty of hard drive space. It is connected to a kvm switch
>for monitors and keyboards.
>
>I have set the security preference to ask for a password. At some point, I
>was told this would stop this behavior. It has not.
>
>This is not making much sense to me, because the only way that the dialog
>box should come up is if someone hits a key on the keyboard or mouse.
>Since no one is in the office, they can't be hitting the keyboard.
>
>Please help.
>
>thanks
>
>PS. I have considered upgrading to 4.3 but since they don't discuss this
>problem anywhere, I assume that it is a problem that I have been having
>and not a version problem - or I could be wrong.


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RE: Advice requested: tape system

[Larry Acosta Wong]

Call my account rep, Skip Heeman at CDW and tell him I sent you and he'll
sell you the VXA tapes for $67. Ask for CDW part# 204732.

Here's his contact info:

Skip Heeman
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(877) 780-7017

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf
Of Ben Liberman
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 10:17 AM
To: retro-talk
Subject: Re: Advice requested: tape system


At 10:43 -0400 9/18/00, Church Initiative WebMaster wrote:
>  > Also, in Graham's chart, the VXA V-17 media (33 gig native) is listed
>>  at $67.  Anyone know where I can find it at this price?  The best
>>  that I've found so far is ~72.50
>>
>
>http://www.egghead.com/category/inv/00074283/03276001.htm

broken link.  Can't find VXA tape anywhere on their site.
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RE: Advice requested: tape system

[Larry Acosta Wong]

VXA-1 has 65% greater capacity, lower drive cost, but higher media cost.
Plus, of course there's that reliability thing. Ecrix boiled a tape,
recovered the data; froze a tape; recovered the data.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf
Of Adam Cohen
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 8:32 AM
To: 'retro-talk'
Subject: RE: Advice requested: tape system


Is the VXA-1 that much better than DDS 4?

Adam Cohen





-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf
Of Daniel Knight
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 7:10 AM
To: retro-talk
Subject: Re: Advice requested: tape system


>However our company has grown some over time and the use of CD-R is no
longer
>a real option as it takes too long to do a full backup of the 30GB or so of
>data on the LAN.

I like VXA. Tapes hold 33 MB before compression, although I haven't hit
that level on my home network -- probably due to slow 6100s and Quadras
not able to send data fast enough. Cost for the drive ranges from $600 to
$1200+, depending on the deal you manage to find. Tapes are $80 each.

At work, we use AIT, which has a native capacity of 25 GB and averages
about 35 GB compressed. AIT seems to work better backing up older, slower
Macs on the network. I've never run *under* the tapes rated capacity, as
I did with my first VXA tape at home. Cost of drives is much higher
($2000+). Tapes are about $80, also.

I have no experience with DLT.

Dan Knight, IS manager/webmaster  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Baker Book House Company 
6030 East Fulton   616-676-9185 x146
Ada, Michigan 49301 fax 616-676-9573

  Macs for productivity, Unix for stability, Windows for solitaire



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RE: Retrospect and OS 9

[Larry Acosta Wong]

Jim,
To prevent intruders from disturbing the backup server while it's logged in,
use the BlackWatch screen saver 
to password protect your computer.


BTW, there's a posting on the BlackWatch web site that says:

(8/23/00) A patch for Retrospect (versions 4.0 through 4.3) is now
available. This patch enables Retrospect to launch in the background when
performing a scheduled backup, making it fully compatible with BlackWatch.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf
Of Jim Coefield
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 10:45 AM
To: retro-talk
Subject: Retrospect and OS 9


Irena,

The explanation below goes a long way to explaining the problems I
had after ugrading my Backup server (running Retro 4.3) to OS 9
(which I managed to slowly figure out on my own). What I would really
like to do, though, would be able to set my server into the login
screen mode using Multiple Users, as I find that some of my cohorts
in my office like to "use" my computer when I'm away (and locked
doors aren't possible here and notes go unheeded).

The explanations for the work-arounds on your web page below:

"Mac OS 9's Multiple Users prevents Retrospect from launching
automatically to execute its scheduled scripts. Before you leave the
backup Macintosh, start Retrospect manually from within Multiple
Users. This allows Retrospect to run scripts as scheduled." and:

"The workaround for local backups with Retrospect is to log in as an
owner before backing up."

As the backup admin, I'd prefer to be able to logout of the server
(putting it into the login screen mode), have Retrospect launch
either a script or Backup Server, and be able to backup both network
and local drives, as I use the machine extensively during the day for
all my other network admin work, and only backup in the eve/night.

So, other than the "feature" of Retro 4.3/Multiple Users not allowing
Retro to autolaunch is their any way for Dantz to tweak Retro to
override Multiple Users on the backup computer to allow it to launch,
even when only the login screen is present, and then proceed to back
up the entire local computer and also backup network clients? That
would be a great advantage to those of us network admins that have
"open shops" without doors. Also, is Dantz working to solve/work
around the special folder selector conditions in custom selectors
with those computers using Multiple Users?

Thanks,

Jim Coefield
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


>Also, if you are running Mac OS 9 and have Multiple Users turned on,
>Retrospect will not automatically launch. For a full Mac OS 9 compatibility
>statement, please go to
>
>
>
>If your script still isn't running, it may be time to give tech support a
>call when you can be in front of your computer.
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Irena
>Technical Support Specialist
>Dantz Development Corporation
>925.253.3050



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RE: VXA drive (was DDS-3 vs DDS-4?)

[Larry Acosta Wong]

I've added the two OnStream drives (ADR50 and SC30) in the internal 
SCSI configurations (wide connector if available). I've listed the 
pricing I can get to keep the comparison prices consistent.

Steve Rothman, the Eliant 820 is an Exabyte drive utilizing an 8mm 
helical scan tape. The VXA-1 media $/GB price is also actually a bit 
higher than you calculated

   Media
   $/GB
---
Exabyte M2: 60GB,  12MB/s, $3777 ($80 media)  1.33
Sony AIT-2: 50GB,   6MB/s, $3289 ($94 media)  1.88
DLT 8000  : 40GB,   6MB/s, $3915 ($64 media)  1.60
Sony AIT-1: 35GB,   3MB/s, $1913 ($88 media)  2.51
VXA-1 : 33GB,   3MB/s,  $939 ($67 media)  2.03
ADR50 : 25GB,   2MB/s,  $697 ($46 media)  1.84
DDS-4 : 20GB,   3MB/s, $1072 ($33 media)  1.65
Mammoth   : 20GB,   3MB/s, $2126 ($56 media)  2.80
DLT 4000  : 20GB, 1.5MB/s, $1352 ($64 media)  3.20
SC30  : 15GB,   2MB/S,  $438 ($41 media)  2.73
Mammoth-LT: 14GB,   2MB/s, $1193 ($35 media)  2.50
DDS-3 : 12GB,   1MB/s,  $777 ($16 media)  1.33
Eliant 820:  7GB,   1MB/s, $1160 ( $8 media)  1.14
DDS-2 :  4GB, .51MB/s,  $606 ( $7 media)  1.75

-Native capacity listed, compressed capacity is typically 50% more
-Sustained transfer rate listed
-Cost is based on internal model with wide SCSI connector (if available)
-VXA-1 tape drive is even cheaper through Ecrix July promo ($539)
-Media listed is highest capacity format in single packs


Here's how I personally chose which tape drive to go with:

The way I figure, in order, the most important factors regarding the 
tape backup system are:

1. Reliability
2. Performance
3. Ease
4. Cost

Some of these items will be in different order for other people but I 
think that reliability is always the most important factor in a 
backup. (To stress my point, substitute the word "parachute" for 
"backup." I'm sure you'll always choose the most reliable parachute 
over any other.)

Reliability: The key feature with a backup is the ability to restore 
data and no tape system is 100% problem-free. But, only Ecrix makes 
these ridiculous durability claims and actually backs it up with 
extreme torture tests (boiling & freezing tapes). This is what really 
got my attention on the VXA drives.

Performance: You need to backup your users in the shortest amount of 
time possible. If it takes you more than one night to create a full 
backup, some users will go more than a day between backups thus 
reducing your backup system's effectiveness. Plus, the less you 
inconvenience your users, the less likely they'll keep "snoozing" 
Retrospect when it starts a backup. But with a fast tape drive you'll 
need a fast network and fast clients. Watch for the bottleneck.

Ease: higher capacity tapes reduce the amount of tape swapping that 
needs to happen during a backup or restore. If it takes 5 tapes to 
perform a full backup, then it'll take 5 nights before the full 
backup is done and the first incremental backup can take place 
meaning that some people will go 5 days between their full and 
incremental backups. Ideally, a full backup will fit on a single tape 
or you'll have an autoloader.

Cost: lower = good but when computing the cost per GB, you must 
factor in the cost of the tape drive as well. $7 media sounds really 
appealing but weigh in drive cost, performance and storage capacity. 
Below, I've computed actual cost per GB for my test scenario of 100GB 
total to backup, 3 storage sets.

   Tran#Tapes  Total   True
Model  (GB)   RatePrice Media  Req'd  Price   $/GB
---
VXA-1   333MB/s$539  $6712   $1,343   $3.39
DDS-3   121MB/s$777  $1627   $1,209   $3.73
DDS-24  .51MB/s$606   $775   $1,131   $3.77
SC30152MB/s$438  $4121   $1,299   $4.12
ADR50   252MB/s$697  $4612   $1,249   $4.16
VXA-1   333MB/s$939  $6712   $1,743   $4.40
Eliant 820   71MB/s  $1,160   $845   $1,520   $4.83
DDS-4   203MB/s  $1,072  $3315   $1,567   $5.22
Mammoth-LT  142MB/s  $1,193  $3524   $2,033   $6.05
DLT 400020  1.5MB/s  $1,352  $6415   $2,312   $7.71
Sony AIT-1  353MB/s  $1,913  $88 9   $2,705   $8.59
Mammoth 203MB/s  $2,126  $5615   $2,966   $9.89
Exabyte M2  60   12MB/s  $3,777  $80 6   $4,257  $11.83
DLT 8000406MB/s  $3,915  $64 9   $4,491  $12.48
Sony AIT-2  506MB/s  $3,289  $94 6   $3,853  $12.84

For this comparison, I've included the VXA-1 at the promotional price 
since it's been extended through Aug and is available to everyone. 
The total cost of DDS-3 is actually $134 cheaper than the VXA-1 but 
the cost/GB is higher, it requires 27 tapes total (9 tapes per 
storage set) and its transfer rate is considerably slower.

So, it's probably fairly obvious th

Re: DLT autoloaders?

[Larry Acosta Wong]

I did include DDS-4 right between the VXA-1 and the Mammoth. I've 
been disappointed so many times in the past by DDS that I'd likely 
not consider it again.

At 5:57 PM -0400 7/27/00, SK Suh wrote:
>At 1:07 AM -0700 07/25/2000, Larry Acosta Wong wrote:
>>I, too, am in the market for a new tape drive. Here's what I've found:
>>
>>Exabyte M2: 60GB,  12MB/s, $3777 ($80 media)
>
>Any reason why DDS-4 hasn't been included in this list?
>
>Based on research earlier this year on lists including Retro-talk, I 
>ordered a Sony SDT1 {DDS-4) to replace an older DAT drive and 
>the results have been most impressive. Fast, efficient, trouble free 
>(thus far) and makes archiving much easier.
>
>VXA and AIT-2 would have been strong contenders for me if backwards 
>compatibility with older DAT media wasn't an issue.


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Re: DLT autoloaders?

[Larry Acosta Wong]

I, too, am in the market for a new tape drive. Here's what I've found:

Exabyte M2: 60GB,  12MB/s, $3777 ($80 media)
Sony AIT-2: 50GB,   6MB/s, $3289 ($94 media)
DLT 8000  : 40GB,   6MB/s, $3915 ($64 media)
Sony AIT-1: 35GB,   3MB/s, $1913 ($88 media)
VXA-1 : 33GB,   3MB/s,  $939 ($67 media)
DDS-4 : 20GB,   3MB/s, $1072 ($33 media)
Mammoth   : 20GB,   3MB/s, $2126 ($56 media)
DLT 4000  : 20GB, 1.5MB/s, $1352 ($64 media)
Mammoth-LT: 14GB,   2MB/s, $1193 ($35 media)
DDS-3 : 12GB,   1MB/s,  $777 ($16 media)
Eliant 820:  7GB,   1MB/s, $1160 ( $8 media)
DDS-2 :  4GB, .51MB/s,  $606 ( $7 media)

-Native capacity listed, compressed capacity is typically 50% more
-Sustained transfer rate listed
-Cost is based on internal model with wide SCSI connector (if available)
-VXA-1 tape drive is even cheaper through Ecrix July promo ($539)
-Media listed is highest capacity format in single packs


So, the fastest, highest capacity tape drive is the Exabyte 
Mammoth-2. Unfortunately, it's one of the most expensive as well.

My understanding is that DLT drives aren't well geared for the 
repetitive start-stop-start pattern of incremental backups done by 
Retrospect. DLT drives tend to overshoot the tape and thus spend a 
lot of their time rewinding. This drive is best suited for backing up 
a large continuous flow of data. Sound right?

I've used AIT's in the past and I've been very happy with them. A few 
broken tapes but it wasn't too difficult to disassemble the Seagate 
autoloader and remove the tape.

VXA-1 seems like the deal. Good capacity, fast performance, 
super-duper reliability, fantastic price. Unfortunately, it received 
the worst performance scores by PC Mag 
. 
But, that test was against only the higher performance versions of 
the other tapes drives (M2, DDS-4, DLT 8000, and AIT-2).

DDS (aka DAT) is definitely the most popular, price is good, media's 
cheap. But, everyone I know with DDS drives has had perpetual 
reliability problems (both media and mechanism). Someone said that 
this had to do with the thinner tapes found in the DDS-2 drives and 
that the problem had gone away with the DDS-3 drives. Anyone verify 
this?

So, which is the winner? For me, I'm torn between the VXA-1 and 
AIT-1. The PC Mag article made the VXA-1 look pretty bad but I'm 
thinking that it's just relative and that the performance numbers for 
the AIT-1 would be pretty similar. Plus the July Ecrix promo making 
the VXA 70% cheaper than the AIT forces me to try out the VXA. Even 
better, I can buy two VXA drives for less than the cost of one AIT 
drive and make a poor man's autoloader!


One last alternative, a friend of mine decided to skip the whole tape 
drive thing and buy a Quantum Snap Server 4000 ($2,469) instead. The 
Snap Servers ship with DataKeeper. Anyone have any experience with 
this? It only works under Windows but it allows "real-time" 
continuous back-up. On the Snap Server 4000, you get up to 120GB of 
storage.

The obvious drawbacks are:
-finite storage tops out at 120GB (or 90GB with RAID 5 enabled)
-no off-site backup
-no complete images of hard drives
-no historical backup

The advantages are:
-allows users to recover files without admin assistance
-high performance (hard drive vs. tape)
-real-time backup
-no backup server to maintain or purchase.


At 1:34 PM -0500 7/24/00, Robert Cooper wrote:
>Hello List,
>
>I am looking into DLT vs DDS for a tape library.  I went and read the old
>posts on the Ecrix and Mammoth DLT drives.  I was wondering what the user
>experience has been with them now, since it has been some months since these
>posts were put up.


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Re: Finally - a cure for DLT

[Larry Acosta Wong]

How's performance? The reliability of the tapes is impressive but I'm 
concerned about the drive's backup performance. Take a look at PC 
Mag's article on tape drives: 
. 
The VXA-1 was pretty much the slowest drive. The fastest drive was 
the Exabyte Mammoth-2.

At 9:52 AM -0400 4/10/00, Luke Jaeger wrote:
>Just wanted to broadcast my opinion that Ecrix VXA rocks. I'm evaluating
>one and it's highly impressive.
>--
>
>
>top of the world,
>
>Luke Jaeger, Technology Coordinator
>Disney Magazine Publishing
>Northampton, Massachusetts
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Any opinions expressed in this message are my own and may not represent
>the opinions of Disney Publishing, etc etc etc.
>
>*
>
>
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Seagate discontinues AIT

[Larry Acosta Wong]

I was all set to buy another AIT drive and discovered that Seagate 
has discontinued them. They no longer list any AIT drives on their 
web page. I put a call into Seagate Pre-Sales Support and the guy 
said that they have decided to stop licensing the technology from 
Sony and instead are focusing on the upcoming Linear Tape-Open 
Technology (LTO). Anyone else hear of this?


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