Re: [Rosegarden-user] The future of Linux sure looks bleak...
On 09/02/2012 05:04 AM, Tim Munro wrote: david wrote: So you add ANOTHER DRIVE to the system That's what I do. Yes, I could have picked up an old drive somewhere and stuffed it into the box. I even considered picking up an IDE to SATA adapter so that I could attempt to use a newer drive, but the bottom line was that the machine itself was hopelessly out of date. A 550MHz Pentium III processor with 256M of ram (apparently HP's upper limit for that motherboard) is hardly sound-barrier stuff these days. Rather than pouring more money into a lost cause, I decided to upgrade. That makes sense. Also, I tried a set of IDESATA adapters. They didn't work. Didn't have to modify any apps to run on 64-bit. Which apps are you talking about? The first example that comes to mind is an obscure program called Rosegarden and how it deals with library paths. On a Slackware system, 32-bit stuff typically goes into /usr/lib, while 64-bit stuff ends up in /usr/lib64. Because I had built and installed DSSI and LADSPA from source, they ended up in the 64-bit library where Rosegarden couldn't find them. My initial workaround was to place symlinks in the 32-bit library, but eventually I got around to patching src/sound/DSSIPluginFactory.cpp and src/sound/LADSPAPluginFactory.cpp with more complete path info. I run Rosegarden on my 32-bit and 64-bit Debian systems and never had to change anything. But I didn't build DSSI or LADSPA from source. Didn't have to. Other programs that needed adjustment were mostly things that I had written years ago that contained snippets of truly ancient code. Back in the 16-bit days, for instance, we made assumptions about the size of an int that are no longer valid. Yup. I'm not developer. Wouldn't that happen with the shift to 32-bit, anyway? -- David gn...@hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://clanjones.org/david/ http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/ -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] The future of Linux sure looks bleak...
Tim Munro wrote: A time lag frequently exists between the introduction of new hardware and the availability of suitable Linux drivers. And even when these drivers or kernel patches become available, a significant time lag can exist before the changes make it into a distribution. Especially one as conservative as Slackware, my personal favorite. Last year I struggled with taming an Asus-g73sw laptop: I too started by wiping the bundlecrap off the disk and installing about half a dozen linux distros on it, and windows-7 but then that was it for windows, XP could NOT be installed. On the other hand the backlit keyboard works only under windows. It isn't just linux that throws fits when you have to move up. As for KDE4, yeah, eyecandy puke but I got it working now and just don't use any feature I don't like. I can't call it inferior to KDE3 even if I had to let go a couple of favorite features. The short of the long is that any major software or hardware move requires a good year to beat into shape. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] The future of Linux sure looks bleak...
david wrote: So you add ANOTHER DRIVE to the system That's what I do. Yes, I could have picked up an old drive somewhere and stuffed it into the box. I even considered picking up an IDE to SATA adapter so that I could attempt to use a newer drive, but the bottom line was that the machine itself was hopelessly out of date. A 550MHz Pentium III processor with 256M of ram (apparently HP's upper limit for that motherboard) is hardly sound-barrier stuff these days. Rather than pouring more money into a lost cause, I decided to upgrade. Didn't have to modify any apps to run on 64-bit. Which apps are you talking about? The first example that comes to mind is an obscure program called Rosegarden and how it deals with library paths. On a Slackware system, 32-bit stuff typically goes into /usr/lib, while 64-bit stuff ends up in /usr/lib64. Because I had built and installed DSSI and LADSPA from source, they ended up in the 64-bit library where Rosegarden couldn't find them. My initial workaround was to place symlinks in the 32-bit library, but eventually I got around to patching src/sound/DSSIPluginFactory.cpp and src/sound/LADSPAPluginFactory.cpp with more complete path info. Other programs that needed adjustment were mostly things that I had written years ago that contained snippets of truly ancient code. Back in the 16-bit days, for instance, we made assumptions about the size of an int that are no longer valid. Tim -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] The future of Linux sure looks bleak...
On 08/29/2012 09:13 PM, Chris Cannam wrote: On 29 August 2012 23:26, Richard Bownrichard.b...@ferventsoftware.com wrote: It's a fucking operating system. Get over it. There's just no poetry in you. Clearly he needs to read the award-winning book, The Soul of a New Machine. -- David gn...@hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://clanjones.org/david/ http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/ -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] The future of Linux sure looks bleak...
On Wednesday, August 29, 2012 10:14:30 PM Chris Cannam wrote: I think the root of Michael's problem is that he feels stuck with this one operating system -- whether for financial reasons or because of a gloomy expectation that nothing else is going to work for him either. So he hasn't had the opportunity either to decide to let it go, or to relish the good things about it. I'm stuck with the one operating system because it's marginally less unpleasant to deal with and/or more fun to use than everything else, I guess. I'm just so used to all of this by now. I've used Linux longer than I used any other operating system. I still love the idea of it, but I'm really tired of the terrible implementation. It's nothing a few million dollars couldn't fix. Maybe I'll win the lottery. -- D. Michael McIntyre -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] The future of Linux sure looks bleak...
On 30/08/12 12:24, D. Michael McIntyre wrote: On Wednesday, August 29, 2012 10:14:30 PM Chris Cannam wrote: It's nothing a few million dollars couldn't fix. Maybe I'll win the lottery. In that case do save a few bucks for Rosegarden as well :D -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] The future of Linux sure looks bleak...
On 08/29/2012 05:14 PM, Chris Cannam wrote: I'm not sure there is such a simple dichotomy, though. It has so much to do with temperament and perspective. Indeed. Rosegarden is a perfect example. If I could go spend, say, $500 once for something that did everything Rosegarden wants to do, and behaved in a pretty similar way all around, then I probably would have parted with that cash years ago. The problem is you can spend a lot more than $500 for two or three different applications that don't even communicate with each other, don't share data amongst themselves, etc. Not only do you not get the Rosegarden that works that you pay for, you don't pay for it once. Oh no no. I was still using a version of Cakewalk that only understood 8.3 filenames all the way to 2001. I paid for it once in 1993 or something, and I was damn well going to keep using it forever. That's the great thing about FOSS. Free updates for life. You don't pay once, you don't pay ever, and the updates just keep flowing. The crappy thing about FOSS is that that old version from 10 years ago that worked perfectly will no longer compile on a modern system. Just look at all the hell we went through keeping Rosegarden alive through the Qt 4 nightmare. This means that whether you do it today or next month or a couple of years from now, sooner or later you're going to have to upgrade your entire system from top to bottom. When you do, you may break half the world. Or at least break the most important application you use every day. When that happens, there's just no good answer. Can I pay money for a KMail that actually works, and doesn't break the continuity of 11 years of the same ~/Mail folder? Apparently not. Whether I pay money or not, I'm still just shit out of luck on that front. Thanks, KMail developers, for completely destroying an application I've been using at least a dozen times a day for 11 years. Even though I'm a developer and I well understand how hard this whole game is, I'm more than half tempted to go create a KDE bugs account for the sole purpose of extending them a big fuck you. It wouldn't be productive at all, or fair, but it might be cathartic. Bitter? Not me. No, never. We'll see how Thunderbird fares. I have deep concerns that this message is going to come out in HTML. If so, I apologize. I'll figure it out in due course. It looks like this is my KMail replacement, and it's a huge improvement so far, because I can actually click on a message and read it any time I want. Plus, it's not webmail. I detest webmail. /rant -- D. Michael McIntyre -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] The future of Linux sure looks bleak...
On 08/29/2012 08:06 PM, jimmy wrote: Rosegarden, Lilypond probably can't be compare to the well polished professional apps out there. The hell of it is that I was at a point a few years ago when I was more than willing to shell out some cash for Finale or Sibelius or something, something professional, something real. I did some experiments with Rosegarden vs. Everything Else, including MusE Score and a few other random things. What sucks is that Rosegarden won hands down for taking some random MIDI file and generating something approaching usable notation from it. Hands down. None of the rest of them could remotely compare, and they all made a complete ruin of my test. If it hadn't been for that, I'd have been free of this thing years ago. Unfortunately, that's something I actually do (or did, when I still had free time for music) with considerable frequency, and something Rosegarden does particularly well. It sucks. Continuing to slog it out with this thing really isn't all that pointless, it turns out. -- D. Michael McIntyre -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] The future of Linux sure looks bleak...
Thanks Ahmet. This prompts me to write as an appreciative user. It is so much easier to write about what is irritating than what is pleasing, but what is pleasing is worth as much ink. I am solidly on the recipient end of the spectrum. I am a mechanical engineer with as little knowledge of coding as I can get away with. So I can't even say that I feel guilty for not contributing expertise, I have none to offer. But I do use Rosegarden in my work. It is an valuable tool for what I do. I made as big a $$ contribution to the project as I have made to any FOSS project and I still spent a fraction of what a commercial program would have cost. I spent a year waffling back and forth between Rosegarden and Cakewalk before figuring out how to do everything I wanted on RG and giving up on Cakewalk. If RG had cost $500 I would never have had that year to tinker with it before committing to it, the 30 day trial would have expired and I would be left needing to spend a lot of money on a program I was not yet certain about. This is a side issue to the whole OS debate (I use XFCE on Ubuntu Studio. It works well and I am glad to sidestep the whole Unity/ Gnome3 debacle) but it does speak to the advantages of working in the FOSS environment. Thanks to everyone who works on the software I use. I may abandon Ubuntu at some point but I will be sticking with Linux for good. Jonathan Herz www.herzmusicbox.com On Thu, 2012-08-30 at 07:24 +0300, Ahmet Öztürk wrote: I prefer to pay in real money and not by time spent to make programs work. This is your decision but do not forget that freedom comes at a price. It can be paid by actively coding (whole apps or just patches), or by investing some time for making things work, or many other ways. You may choose not to pay this price or think that you cannot afford it. But please, oh please refrain from blaming developers for it. Developers work to the best of their abilities without usually being paid at all and when their efforts fall short in some fronts against some major companies' products, they are the ones to pay yet another price by answering endless unfair accusations of the community. Ahmet -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] The future of Linux sure looks bleak...
On 08/30/2012 07:27 AM, Richard Bown wrote: On 30 Aug 2012, at 09:13, Chris Cannam can...@all-day-breakfast.com wrote: There's just no poetry in you. Ok, this is your fault. http://masticate.com/2012/08/30/ode-to-a-preemptive-multitasking-kernel/ YES That was awesome. Now we just need a haiku about Haiku ;) -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] The future of Linux sure looks bleak...
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:25:36 -0400 John wildber...@cogeco.ca wrote: I wonder how few Linux users are aware of the restrictions imposed on the use of open source soft ware. Legal restrictions as well as moral restrictions. Then there is the ever occurring bragging of the long uptime. If you use your computer for simple re- occurring tasks and nothing else, it does not matter what operating system or what distro you use, you will experience a long up time. Computers are tools, and good craftsmen choose the best tools to do the job. Only amateurs try to get by with inferior tools and spend unreasonable time to keep them sharp and working. John Please let me know of these legal and moral restrictions. I am not aware of any. I don't know about long uptimes. I switch off after every session - why waste money on powering an unused system. Also, I rather like the fact that my computers are actually ready for use within a minute of switch-on. I agree about using the best tools for the job, that's why I use Rosegarden and (mostly) Yoshimi on a debian based installation. P.S. Absolutely everything on my website has been produced with linux, and guess what, my ISP has the same idea. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] The future of Linux sure looks bleak...
On 08/30/2012 11:52 AM, S. Christian Collins wrote: FWIW, I have been using Thunderbird for years as my e-mail client of choice, and it has never let me down. I've got seven e-mail accounts coming into it, using Lightning for my calendar (synced up with multiple Google calendars). I've got tons of stored e-mails all the way back to 1999 and all of this running off of an encrypted flash drive so I can move it between my PC and my laptop. Thunderbird may look kinda ugly in KDE compared to Kmail, but it's all about the functionality for me. I hate to waste bandwidth and mindshare but... I agree with Mr. Collins. I've been using Thunderbird (and whatever its predecessors were called) since 1998 (one up ;) and it's always been able to keep up with my old e-mail archives and ... I save everything but spam. Ugly? Maybe. But I'm always distraught when I use other e-mail clients that seem to want to simplify my life too much. just sayin' I wish I had more time to use Rosegarden, but it's a great app for a musical amateur such as myself. -- Michael N. Moran (h) 770 516 7918 5009 Old Field Ct. (c) 678 521 5460 Kennesaw, GA, USA 30144http://mnmoran.org So often times it happens, that we live our lives in chains and we never even know we have the key. Already Gone by Jack Tempchin (recorded by The Eagles) The Beatles were wrong: 1 1 1 is 1 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] The future of Linux sure looks bleak...
On 30 August 2012 18:47, jimmy wg20...@yahoo.com wrote: But the ignorant people always think because they pay for something they must have something worth-while, especially the more expensive stuff. But hey, its their money. There's one born every minute. Nope, that's not right. There are perfectly sound (economic) reasons why paying for software should often get you software that works better for your needs. John is quite right. Equally, there are reasons for the opposite. The money involved might be a really big deal for you, and the thought of _having to make the right choice_ that spending money entails might be an even bigger one. Emma Coats, a former Pixar story artist who has had some publicity recently for her series of snippets about how to make characterisation work in stories, also posted a series of links to free-software programs for animation and storyboarding, along these lines: https://twitter.com/lawnrocket/status/239097181460643841 I think this line of thought is a sound one, and it isn't even an angle I'd thought much about before. Chris -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] The future of Linux sure looks bleak...
On Wed, 29 Aug 2012 09:36:26 -0400 John wildber...@cogeco.ca wrote: I still use Linux for the mental challenges it provides me, but for programs that I need for my personal use, I prefer to pay in real money and not by time spent to make programs work. I have reached the point in life where I become immune to the accusation of being to lazy to learn how to make programs to work. I rather prefer to spend my time to smell the roses. John Well, I totally disagree with this. My DAW was installed about 4 years ago, apart from the occasional security update it has remained unchanged. Although, yes, I occasionally update Rosegarden from SVN and also Yoshimi, neither of which it particularly difficult. My office machine was installed even earlier, and the only reason I re-installed the OS was because I'd tried playing silly buggers with it, knowing full well the risks. So it was no loss, because it is now running debian wheezy very happily. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] The future of Linux sure looks bleak...
On 29 August 2012 14:48, Richard Bown richard.b...@ferventsoftware.com wrote: On 29 Aug 2012, at 15:36, John wildber...@cogeco.ca wrote: [...] I have reached the point in life where I become immune to the accusation of being to lazy to learn how to make programs to work. I rather prefer to spend my time to smell the roses. Well said, sir. I'm not sure there is such a simple dichotomy, though. It has so much to do with temperament and perspective. For instance, I'm sure that (of historical Rosegarden developers) you and Guillaume would agree that your lives have been more pleasant since you stopped having to apply the principle that it has to be beaten into shape in order to work in Linux and switched to other platforms in which you get things done more readily. Revisiting other operating systems in the light of your experience with Linux, you find one of them more satisfying and switch -- contentedly, I assume. On the other hand I've had similar experience of other platforms and found that, in comparison, Linux is the one I most enjoy using, for many largely subjective reasons. So the same experience has made me more content as well, but in a different way. As another example -- John wrote, likely accurately, A number of writer to this thread made reference to their recently discovered new distro [...] The next update will bring them back to reality. But another way of looking at the ebb-and-flow is that, provided the basics of the OS remain the things you always liked about it, you can mostly just ignore the passing fads -- so long as you can stick with the configuration you like and adapt away configurations you don't get on with, the platform will always come back to you eventually. I think the root of Michael's problem is that he feels stuck with this one operating system -- whether for financial reasons or because of a gloomy expectation that nothing else is going to work for him either. So he hasn't had the opportunity either to decide to let it go, or to relish the good things about it. Chris -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] The future of Linux sure looks bleak...
On 29 Aug 2012, at 23:14, Chris Cannam can...@all-day-breakfast.com wrote: So he hasn't had the opportunity either to decide to let it go, or to relish the good things about it. It's a fucking operating system. Get over it. R -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] The future of Linux sure looks bleak...
--- On Wed, 8/29/12, John wildber...@cogeco.ca wrote: I still use Linux for the mental challenges it provides me, but for programs that I need for my personal use, I prefer to pay in real money and not by time spent to make programs work. Perhaps you shouldn't even bother with Linux at all, pay for Windows, or OSX apps for everything you want to use, Rosegarden, Lilypond probably can't be compare to the well polished professional apps out there. I have reached the point in life where I become immune to the accusation of being to lazy to learn how to make programs to work. I rather prefer to spend my time to smell the roses. John Sure people can chose what they want do to. There are plenty of people who couldn't and wouldn't learn how to program the clock on a Microwave, or VCR. No big deals. Jimmy -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] The future of Linux sure looks bleak...
--- On Wed, 8/29/12, John wildber...@cogeco.ca wrote: A number of writer to this thread made reference to their recently discovered new distro (whatever !) that is not suffering from any of the known illnesses. I can assure them that they are living in a dream world. The next update will bring them back to reality. Stick with a commonly used distro, and learn how to use it properly. Distro hopping are like fashion followers, there are always new hats, new ties, new eye glasses, new dresses, new shoes, new cell phones... But of course, for newbies who haven't chosen a Linux distro yet, some recommendations are not such a bad idea, either, especially the newbies in the Linux MIDI arena. My use of Linux and Open Source apps are because I simply don't want to agree to draconian terms of the EULA (End User's License Agreements), and having to jump through all the hoops to back up and restore my computer, and associated applications. I want to install, copy, backup my OS and softwares on to different computers of my choice, when I do my hardware upgrades. Or having a working spare system in place, so when my main computer has a problem, I can fairly quickly get my work done without interruption. And I don't want to pay double, triple, quadruple the licensing fees, just because I have a few some older computers sitting around. Some people don't even bother to read EULA, nor care to understand those legal terms, but most of them don't even allow the OS, or applications to be copied on to a running (operarting) computer so that such softwares can be readily run. Worse than that, many proprietary applications have their own data format. Years down the road, when I need to read such data files, those apps may not be installable, or runnable on my latest computer(s), and the older computers or hard drives may have died long before that. With most Open Source softwares, the data file format can be read and data be extracted or converted much more readily. Jimmy -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] The future of Linux sure looks bleak...
Dear Michael I've never used Ubuntu so I can not talk about it! I use ROSA-2012 (Russian version of Mandriva) http://www.rosalab.com/ with kde4.8.4 and the repo MIB http://mib.pianetalinux.org/blog/ which ROSA takes the kernel-nrj (low-latency). I, like you, am a user kmail since it exists! Even this mail comes from kmail! I use kmail starting kontact! Kmail akonadi needs to work so be sure to install all the modules akonadi! I think we all know that when you rewrite software to make a jump this jump is never painless! Also I Mandriva-Rosa I suffered when it was new kmail-kontact but now I use it with sufficient satisfaction! Problems still exist with filters to sort messages into different folders but nothing terribly irritating! I am sure that in future releases these little problems will be solved! Hang in there! Support kde and kmail! Revolutions require work! Greetings and good luck! -- oiram/bin/selom Da ognuno secondo le proprie capacità ad ognuno secondo i propri bisogni. Linux MIB Lilypond Frescobaldi Rosegarden -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] The future of Linux sure looks bleak...
On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 10:08:36 -0400 D. Michael McIntyre michael.mcint...@rosegardenmusic.com wrote: I'm writing from GMail in a web browser. I hate using a web browser for email, and have been using KMail for over 10 years. I love KMail. So somewhere after midnight I got the upgrade notification thing from my running Kubuntu 10.04 LTS that 12.04.1 was available. Interesting. That's the first time in years I've actually gotten one of those notifications. IMO, the IT world is in a major transition period, which started somewhere around 4 years ago (probably with the iphone), and will continue until, perhaps, somewhere between 2016 and 2020. (Hopefully, it will not extend much beyond that - otherwise, it will be more painful than some can bear.) As most (probably everyone) on this list knows, the main transition at this point is from the desktop (GUI on a PC - Windows for most people, but also OSX and Linux) to either or both of: - mobile/tablet-based apps, most of which make heavy use of web and/or internet connections. - web-based applications, where the main characters are the browser and a web server, a group of web-servers, and/or cloud-centric systems (which, perhaps, is a synonym for group of web-servers). For both of these options, most of the work will be done on servers on the web and the user's computer will be mainly a client making use of services running on these servers. Unfortunately, this transition is causing, and will continue to cause, major growing pains for those who are used to (i.e., almost all of us) the current system/paradigm. These growing pains are showing up in the Linux world as, for example, the GNOME team's desire to push their project into this new world/paradigm, and their users' resulting pain in finding things don't work as they used to - the transition is only, perhaps, 1/4 to 1/3 complete, and how it will actually turn out in the end is known only to those who both have access to, and have been willing to use, a future-oriented time machine (which is, likely, no one). Everyone else has to guess, and it's likely that most guesses will be off by quite a bit. In the meantime we are stuck with these painful transitional technologies, such as GNOME 3 and Ubuntu's Unity, which to many people seem like (and perhaps are) monstrosities. I don't think the Linux world is alone in being affected by these transitional pains - many people are wondering what the fuck they are going to do when Windows 8 (or Metro, or whatever-the-fuck it's being called now) comes out. It's trying to bridge this transition, too, and, IMO, is not doing a very good job of it. (Prediction: Microsoft will be, in about 10 to 15 years, the Sears of high-tech companies - they just don't have the right philosophy, vision, and creativity needed to keep up.) Apple may do better than both MS and Linux, but their position at or near the top in the near future is nowhere near guaranteed. And - again in the meantime - we have to make do with what we currently have in this confusing transitional period. The people (IMO) likely to feel the most pain in these times are the pseudo-geeks: those like Michael and most of the rest of us on this mailing list who have a fair amount of geeky skills/talents, but not enough to know how to maneuver around the obstacle course of changes resulting from this transition. The more common naive Joe/Sally user can for the most part trust MS (at least until MS becomes a has-been, which will take several years) or Apple to tell them what to do and will likely not have enough demands such that they experience great pain (maybe a little, but not like having, say, an amputation). And the true-geek will be able to use their pain to direct themselves to a workable, perhaps partly-hacked-together, solution. But the pseudo geek will likely have the demands to insist on something better than what's available, but not the skills to whip something up that will fulfill what they need. Result: mucho pain. But - to allude to the subject of this thread -: I don't think this automatically leads to the conclusion that things look bad for the future of Linux. Linux is used, probably, (mainly because of Android) in more devices these days than any other major OS (i.e., Windows, Windows-phone, IOS, OSX). And Linux appears to be the de facto OS for most embedded devices these days. Also, Linux is what Chrome OS is based on - another future-web/cloud-oriented technology. With all this reliance on Linux and with all the talented/skilled developers on this planet with approximately 7 billion people, it seems likely to me that something very good and useful will emerge in the next 5 to 10 years. It may take a while, and we may have to go through quite a bit of pain until then, but I think it's likely something workable for us pseudo-geeks will show up well before we die. Until then, I'm finding KDE4 on Fedora 17 quite workable. (I've been using KDE for many
Re: [Rosegarden-user] The future of Linux sure looks bleak...
Hi IMO, the IT world is in a major transition period Actually I think we're in a major cloud-bloviation period. Sure it has its place but I expect it to be a parallel option to desktops, not a replacement. It's a kind of IT Lite for those with several lightweight devices who don't really need the power of a modern computer. There are always going to be security issues handing your data over to someone else and of course the obvious one of how do you get any work done when the network is down. Desktops are cheap and highly modifiable and will last for as long as people have desks to put them on. Noel PS: for a highly tweakable system with an excellent package manager I recommend gentoo and http://www.aperiplus.co.uk/downloads/gentool.htm. Bootable backups take all the pain out of upgrades. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] The future of Linux sure looks bleak...
Hi Long time XFCE user here. I can't remember ever having a problem. Noel -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] The future of Linux sure looks bleak...
On Mon, 27 Aug 2012, Noel Darlow wrote: Long time XFCE user here. I can't remember ever having a problem. XFCE4 ist *my* successor of KDE3. http://www.marzen.de/tmp/xfce4.png -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] The future of Linux sure looks bleak...
Like the others, I offer my sympathy for what little it's worth. I've tried a variety of distros form Mandrake, to Slackware and derivatives, but always seem to come back to Debian. I now have a two text files, one with step-by-step instructions on a cold install to my preferred 'office' setup, and the other a similar one for my DAW. I install the basic image *without* desktop etc. then load in just the bits I want. It is actually much quicker than you'd expect - especially when you realise that apt-get -install synaptic will magically drag in most of X too :) -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] The future of Linux sure looks bleak...
On 27 August 2012 16:04, Chris Cannam can...@all-day-breakfast.com wrote: I think XFCE is a fair option for people who were happy with the previous generation of desktops and are quite content to watch history pass them by. Of course, this is a problem if those people are developers, since they end up not testing their software in the environments that most people actually use. Recent reports of problems with RG under Ubuntu Unity, which no RG developer really knows how to respond to, are a case in point. For my part, these days, most of the software I write is (sadly) used on other platforms more than on Linux -- this does at least mean I get to develop on Linux as a sort of neutral platform that I can align more to my own preferences and habits than to anyone else's. In fact, I am probably as happy with it now as I ever have been. I use Arch Linux, which has a rolling update schedule without any numbered releases. It's worked well for me. They seem to be getting more and more ambitious in the sorts of changes they include in rolling updates, which is sometimes problematic -- this year there have been three updates requiring significant manual input -- but it has never yet actually broken anything for me, it always just refuses to update until I go back and read the instructions. If you don't mind reading instructions, and remember to do so, it's fine. It has the benefit of clarity, it's generally easier to fix than Ubuntu (or other operating systems) if it does break. Chris -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] The future of Linux sure looks bleak...
On 27 August 2012 18:02, S. Christian Collins s_chriscoll...@hotmail.com wrote: Sorry to hear your upgrade didn't go well, Michael. I've had a few things break over the years during upgrades, but nothing so completely trashed as what it seems you experienced. I'm currently using the latest Kubuntu 12.04, and I have to say I'm quite spoiled by KDE. That's interesting -- I was put off KDE4 very quickly when it first appeared, simply because of the ugly putty-like theme it used by default, and I probably never gave it the time it really deserved. It's good to hear from people who have found that it all works out for them. I'm happy at the moment with XFCE4, but alternatives are always nice. Chris -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
