Re: [rt-users] see others tickets

2010-11-04 Thread Richard Pijnenburg
Wouldn't it be easier if you could create a group per customer and let all the 
users in that group see the tickets from each other?
Of course there are different approaches possible to the same issue :-)


Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards,

Richard Pijnenburg 

-Original Message-
From: rt-users-boun...@lists.bestpractical.com 
[mailto:rt-users-boun...@lists.bestpractical.com] On Behalf Of Václav Ovsík
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 9:23 AM
To: rt-users@lists.bestpractical.com
Subject: Re: [rt-users] see others tickets

On Thu, Nov 04, 2010 at 12:22:11AM +0100, Josef wrote:
 
  Thank you very much,
 I have copied these files into my
 /usr/share/request-tracker3.6/html/SelfService/, but I'm having this


I forgot to mention files from the tarball should be extracted into
installation directory of RT 3.8.8. So you should end with:

local/html/SelfService
local/html/SelfService/QueueTickets.html
local/html/SelfService/Elements
local/html/SelfService/Elements/Tickets
local/html/SelfService/Elements/Tabs

in the directory where you install RT version 3.8.8.

The reasons for creating this SelfService extension was, that we don't
want to give customers full UI. We only want the customer can view
tickets for his company. We have groups of users with permissions to
view corresponding queues.

This code should replace old extension GroupService that exist in the
past for RT 2.x after we move to latest RT.

I wrote the code using loc(), so full localisation is possible and I did
it for Czech language. Menu option Queue tickets is not shown in the
case the user has no permission to view tickets in any queue.

Can someone review the changes to include this into share/html upstream?




 * SelfService/Elements/Tabs
   modification of original file

--- share/html/SelfService/Elements/Tabs2010-05-10 15:36:53.0 
+0200
+++ local/html/SelfService/Elements/Tabs2010-07-01 15:07:01.0 
+0200
@@ -58,14 +58,21 @@
 my $queues = RT::Queues-new($session{'CurrentUser'});
 $queues-UnLimit;
 
-my $queue_count = 0;
-my $queue_id = 1;
+my $queue_create_count = 0;
+my $queue_create_id = 1;
+my $queue_show_count = 0;
+my $queue_show_id = 1;
 
 while (my $queue = $queues-Next) {
-  next unless $queue-CurrentUserHasRight('CreateTicket');
-  $queue_id = $queue-id;
-  $queue_count++;
-  last if ($queue_count  1);
+   if ( $queue-CurrentUserHasRight('CreateTicket') ) {
+   $queue_create_id = $queue-id;
+   $queue_create_count++;
+   }
+   if ( $queue-CurrentUserHasRight('ShowTicket') ) {
+   $queue_show_id = $queue-id;
+   $queue_show_count++;
+   }
+   last if $queue_create_count  1  $queue_show_count  1;
 }
 
 if ($Title) {
@@ -83,13 +90,19 @@
},
};
 
-if ($queue_count  1) {
+if ($queue_show_count) {
+   $tabs-{B2} = { title = loc('Queue tickets'),
+  path = 'SelfService/QueueTickets.html'
+  };
+}
+
+if ($queue_create_count  1) {
 $tabs-{C} = { title = loc('New ticket'),
path = 'SelfService/CreateTicketInQueue.html'
};
 } else {
 $tabs-{C} = { title = loc('New ticket'),
-   path = 'SelfService/Create.html?Queue=' . $queue_id
+   path = 'SelfService/Create.html?Queue=' . 
$queue_create_id
};
 }
 



 * SelfService/Elements/Tickets
   is modification of SelfService/Elements/MyRequests

--- share/html/SelfService/Elements/MyRequests  2010-05-10 15:36:53.0 
+0200
+++ local/html/SelfService/Elements/Tickets 2010-07-08 12:13:04.0 
+0200
@@ -45,41 +45,65 @@
 %# those contributions and any derivatives thereof.
 %# 
 %# END BPS TAGGED BLOCK }}}
+%once
+#my $Format = RT-Config-Get('DefaultSelfServiceSearchResultFormat');
+my $Format = qq{
+   'BA 
HREF=__WebPath__/SelfService/Display.html?id=__idid__/a/B/TITLE:#',
+   QueueName,
+   'BA 
HREF=__WebPath__/SelfService/Display.html?id=__idSubject__/a/B/TITLE:Subject',
+   Status,
+   Requestors,
+   OwnerName};
+/%once
 | /Widgets/TitleBox, title =  $title 
  /Elements/CollectionList, Title   = $title,
 Format  = $Format, 
 Query   = $Query, 
-Order   = @Order, 
-OrderBy = @OrderBy,
+Order   = [...@order],
+OrderBy = [...@orderby],
 BaseURL = $BaseURL,
-GenericQueryArgs = $GenericQueryArgs,
-AllowSorting = $AllowSorting,
-Class   = 'RT::Tickets',
- Rows= $Rows,
-Page= $Page 
+AllowSorting   = $AllowSorting,
+Class  = 'RT::Tickets',
+Rows   = $Rows

Re: [rt-users] see others tickets

2010-11-04 Thread Richard Pijnenburg
I will give it a shot and let you know :-)

Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards,

Richard Pijnenburg 
Change and Incident Coordinator

WideXS  http://www.widexs.nl
Tel +31 (0)20 7570780  Fax +31 (0)20 6116302
Zekeringstraat 43,1014 BV Amsterdam, NL


-Original Message-
From: rt-users-boun...@lists.bestpractical.com 
[mailto:rt-users-boun...@lists.bestpractical.com] On Behalf Of Václav Ovsík
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 10:14 AM
To: rt-users@lists.bestpractical.com
Subject: Re: [rt-users] see others tickets

On Thu, Nov 04, 2010 at 09:37:42AM +0100, Richard Pijnenburg wrote:
 Wouldn't it be easier if you could create a group per customer and let
 all the users in that group see the tickets from each other?
 Of course there are different approaches possible to the same issue :-)

I hope, that it is exactly what I did. :)
Users from the same customer group can view each others tickets.
The SelfService with this modification can be used for it, no need for
full UI. Users can be unprivileged, no need to cope the more complex UI
for end users.

-- 
Zito


[rt-users] Multiple unpriv users see tickets

2010-08-09 Thread Richard Pijnenburg
Dear List,

 

Is it possible to group certain users ( for example 3 persons of 1
customer ) so they can see the tickets of each other?

I haven't been able to find anything on the maillist archive yet about
it.

 

Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards,

Richard Pijnenburg 

 


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[rt-users] Migration from OTRS to RT3

2010-06-25 Thread Richard Pijnenburg
Hi all,

 

My goal is to implement RT3 as new ticketing system but it seems a
demand is that the current history of OTRS needs to be integrated into
RT3.

I'm not all to happy with it but does someone have experience with this?

I haven't found any import scripts yet.

 

 

Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards,

Richard Pijnenburg 

 


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[rt-users] calculating worked time from child tickets

2010-05-28 Thread Richard Pijnenburg
Hi all,

 

We work a lot with a main ticket with sub tickets below it.

For each sub ticket 'time worked' is filled in.

At this moment we manually calculate it and put it in the main ticket.

Is there a way to automate this?

I think it could be done with a scrip with a on update type thing I
think.

Or does someone already have this built?

 

Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards,

Richard Pijnenburg 
Changes and Incident Coordinator

WideXS  http://www.widexs.nl
http://www.widexs.nl/ 
Tel +31 (0)20 7570780  Fax +31 (0)20 6116302
Zekeringstraat 43,1014 BV Amsterdam, NL

 


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Re: [rt-users] RT::Action not found after upgrade 3.8.2 - 3.8.8

2010-05-10 Thread Richard Pijnenburg
I have the same issue.

Cleaned the mason cache and restarted apache, but same result.

 

Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards,

Richard Pijnenburg 
Changes and Incident Coordinator

WideXS  http://www.widexs.nl 
http://www.widexs.nl/ 
Tel +31 (0)20 7570780  Fax +31 (0)20 6116302
Zekeringstraat 43,1014 BV Amsterdam, NL

 

From: rt-users-boun...@lists.bestpractical.com 
[mailto:rt-users-boun...@lists.bestpractical.com] On Behalf Of Steve Anderson
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 12:43 PM
To: Razvan Cosma; rt-users@lists.bestpractical.com
Subject: Re: [rt-users] RT::Action not found after upgrade 3.8.2 - 3.8.8

 

Did you do the step of wiping out the Mason cache?

 

From: rt-users-boun...@lists.bestpractical.com 
[mailto:rt-users-boun...@lists.bestpractical.com] On Behalf Of Razvan Cosma
Sent: 10 May 2010 11:35 AM
To: rt-users@lists.bestpractical.com
Subject: [rt-users] RT::Action not found after upgrade 3.8.2 - 3.8.8

 

 Hi all,
Just did a ./configure  make upgrade, and while there were no errors and all 
dependencies seem to be in place, httpd won't start anymore (running on centos 
with mod_perl), complaining about
[error] Require of RT::Action:: failed.\nCan't locate RT/Action/.pm in @INC
This looks like a typo in some file or scrip, but I have done a grep in the 
webroot, and deleted all my scrips from mysql - it wasn't there
There's no file name in the error, only
at (eval 2442) line 3.\n\nCompilation failed in require at (eval 2) line 1.\n
Any hints on where this eval happens?
Thank you very much

 



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[rt-users] Creating own custom field

2010-04-28 Thread Richard Pijnenburg
Dear list,

 

Currently I'm building my own custom field with external data.

I've created a simple test and that works perfectly.

 

This custom field is connected to tickets.

Now I would like to know if an user that currently is watching that
ticket is a privileged user or not.

This because the user can be a RT system user ( a support employ ) or a
customer watching the ticket via the SelfService page.

In case it's a privileged user I want to get the user details from the
first requestor.

If it's not a privileged user I want to use the current user details.

 

Does anyone know how I can put in the source code?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards,

Richard Pijnenburg 

 


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Re: [rt-users] Customfield question

2010-04-08 Thread Richard Pijnenburg
Hi Kenneth,

 

I'm still busy with this thing and still don't have much luck.

 

For as far as I can see I first need to find out if the current user is
privileged or nonpriviliged.

Sounds simple I think?

 

After that 

If the user is privileged, use the first requestor and get the value of
a custom field called Customer ID.

If the user is non privileged then get the custom field called Customer
ID from the user it self.

 

Does anyone have an idea on this?

 

Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards,

Richard Pijnenburg 
Changes and Incident Coordinator

WideXS  http://www.widexs.nl
http://www.widexs.nl/ 
Tel +31 (0)20 7570780  Fax +31 (0)20 6116302
Zekeringstraat 43,1014 BV Amsterdam, NL

 

From: Kenneth Crocker [mailto:kfcroc...@lbl.gov] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 9:43 PM
To: Richard Pijnenburg
Subject: Re: [rt-users] Customfield question

 

Richard,

Use the Customer Number as the Category for that Custom Field. Then,
create another Custom Field that is just the Customer Number and link
that number to the category of the original Custom Field.

just a thought. Hope it helps.

Kenn
LBNL

On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 2:06 AM, Richard Pijnenburg rich...@widexs.nl
wrote:

Dear List,

 

I've got a maybe strange question for the custom fields.

I have 1 custom field with the user details of our customer with his
Customer Number.

Now I would like to populate a custom field dropdown menu with data from
an external source.

This external source needs that Customer number to get his products.

This way the customer can select his product where he has a question
about.

 

Is this even remotely possible?

 

Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards,

Richard Pijnenburg 
Changes and Incident Coordinator

WideXS  http://www.widexs.nl
http://www.widexs.nl/ 
Tel +31 (0)20 7570780  Fax +31 (0)20 6116302
Zekeringstraat 43,1014 BV Amsterdam, NL

 



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Buy a copy at http://rtbook.bestpractical.com

 


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[rt-users] Customfield question

2010-03-31 Thread Richard Pijnenburg
Dear List,

 

I've got a maybe strange question for the custom fields.

I have 1 custom field with the user details of our customer with his
Customer Number.

Now I would like to populate a custom field dropdown menu with data from
an external source.

This external source needs that Customer number to get his products.

This way the customer can select his product where he has a question
about.

 

Is this even remotely possible?

 

Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards,

Richard Pijnenburg 
Changes and Incident Coordinator

WideXS  http://www.widexs.nl
http://www.widexs.nl/ 
Tel +31 (0)20 7570780  Fax +31 (0)20 6116302
Zekeringstraat 43,1014 BV Amsterdam, NL

 


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Re: [rt-users] Customfield question

2010-03-31 Thread Richard Pijnenburg
Hi Kevin,

Thanks for the fast reply.
I've tested the example script and I understand how it works now.
I only wonder how I can use ticket information within that custom field
information.
Or can I use the standard my $ticket = RT::Ticket( $self-CurrentUser );
to get the ticket information?

Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards,

Richard Pijnenburg 
Changes and Incident Coordinator

WideXS  http://www.widexs.nl
Tel +31 (0)20 7570780  Fax +31 (0)20 6116302
Zekeringstraat 43,1014 BV Amsterdam, NL


-Original Message-
From: rt-users-boun...@lists.bestpractical.com
[mailto:rt-users-boun...@lists.bestpractical.com] On Behalf Of Kevin
Falcone
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 4:01 PM
To: rt-users@lists.bestpractical.com
Subject: Re: [rt-users] Customfield question

On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 11:06:19AM +0200, Richard Pijnenburg wrote:
I've got a maybe strange question for the custom fields.
 
I have 1 custom field with the user details of our customer with
his Customer Number.
 
Now I would like to populate a custom field dropdown menu with data
from an external source.
 
This external source needs that Customer number to get his
products.
 
This way the customer can select his product where he has a
question about.

Sounds like you may want docs/creating_external_custom_fields.pod But be
careful changing the set of values per-requestor/ticket, you may get
some weird interactions when one of your privileged users is searching

-kevin

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[rt-users] Single SignOn

2010-02-23 Thread Richard Pijnenburg
Dear list,

 

I'm wondering if there is a possibility for single signon based on a
webservice. ( soap calls )

I have found a module, RT-Authen-ExternalAuth, but that one can only do
Cookie/Ldap/Mysql.

 

With kind regards,

Richard Pijnenburg 



 

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[rt-users] rt-crontool and custom action

2010-02-18 Thread Richard Pijnenburg
Dear List,

 

I'm trying to write a CustomAction which I want to fire with rt-crontool

 

Currently I have for the crontool the following:

 

./rt-crontool --search RT::Search::FromSQL  --search-arg Queue =
'Orders' AND 'CF.{Status}' = 'Opgeleverd' --action RT::Action::
SetPriority --action-arg 100

 

This searches in the orders queue for tickets with a customfield set to
Opgeleverd.

The SQL query is correct, I've tested it inside RT.

 

The only thing I'm bugging now is with the Action.

I don't want to set the priority but I want to do 2 actions:

1.   Set another value to the customfield.

2.   Open the ticket ( because it's resolved )

 

How can I do this?

 

I found something with a Action::UserDefined but It's not clear to me
how I can do that.

 

Thank you for your time.

 

 

Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards,

Richard Pijnenburg 

 

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Re: [rt-users] File attachments in RTFM

2009-12-30 Thread Richard Pijnenburg
Hi Kevin,

Are there plans to make this available?
It's a feature that I believe more people would like to use ( I know I
would love it )

Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards,

Richard Pijnenburg 


-Original Message-
From: rt-users-boun...@lists.bestpractical.com
[mailto:rt-users-boun...@lists.bestpractical.com] On Behalf Of Kevin
Falcone
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 3:32 PM
To: rt-users@lists.bestpractical.com
Subject: Re: [rt-users] File attachments in RTFM

On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 02:50:05PM +1300, Andrew Ruthven wrote:
 Hey,
 
 I've created an RTFM article, and attached a file to it.  But when I 
 insert the article into a RT ticket I get the RTFM article, and
 Attachment: attached filename, but the attachment isn't attached 
 to the ticket.
 
 Is it possible to have it attach the file to the ticket as part of 
 inserting the ticket?

This is, unfortunately, not a feature of RTFM.

-kevin
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[rt-users] Custom field for users

2009-12-04 Thread Richard Pijnenburg
Dear List,

 

I've created a custom field to be included in the user details.

I want to put in a customer ID which we use in our administration
system.


As far as I can see it's defined correct as a Custom Fields for Users
but I can't see it anywhere.
Am I forgetting something?


Thank you for your time.


Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards,

Richard Pijnenburg 



 

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Re: [rt-users] Custom field for users

2009-12-04 Thread Richard Pijnenburg
It works :-)

Thank you very much.

Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards,

Richard Pijnenburg 


-Original Message-
From: rt-users-boun...@lists.bestpractical.com
[mailto:rt-users-boun...@lists.bestpractical.com] On Behalf Of Kevin
Falcone
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 11:44 AM
To: rt-users@lists.bestpractical.com
Subject: Re: [rt-users] Custom field for users

On Fri, Dec 04, 2009 at 09:38:45AM +0100, Richard Pijnenburg wrote:
Dear List,
 
 
 
I've created a custom field to be included in the user details.
 
I want to put in a customer ID which we use in our administration
system.
 
 As far as I can see it's defined correct as a Custom Fields for
Users but I can't see it anywhere.
 Am I forgetting something?
 
 Thank you for your time.

Make sure you've applied it in Configuration - Global - Custom Fields
- Users

-kevin
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[rt-users] RTFM

2009-11-26 Thread Richard Pijnenburg
Hi all,

 

I've installed RTFM and I want to create an article then I don't get a
input field for the content.

All I can fill in is:

 

-  Name

-  Summary

-  Class

-  Refers to

-  Referred to by

-  Topics

 

Is this a bug in RTFM?

 

Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards,

Richard Pijnenburg 



 

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Re: [rt-users] RTFM

2009-11-26 Thread Richard Pijnenburg
Hi Joop,

 

I haven't defined any CustomFields.

The Content field is for the text that needs to be included in the RT
ticket when I select it.

The user I'm using has all rights.

 

Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards,

Richard Pijnenburg 



 

From: Joop [mailto:joopvandew...@mococo.nl] 
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 3:00 PM
To: Richard Pijnenburg
Cc: rt-users@lists.bestpractical.com
Subject: Re: [rt-users] RTFM

 

Richard Pijnenburg wrote: 

Hi all,

 

I've installed RTFM and I want to create an article then I don't get a
input field for the content.

All I can fill in is:

 

Name

Summary

Class

Refers to

Referred to by

Topics

 

Is this a bug in RTFM?

 

I assume you have defined one or more CustomFields which are RTFM
customfields and not RT CF's?
Further your logged in user has rights to these CustomFields?

Regards,

Joop

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[rt-users] Customfields question

2009-11-25 Thread Richard Pijnenburg
Dear List,

 

I have created a Customfield that links to a webpage ( our own backend
system ) for our employees.

We have enabled the SelfService page where our customers can also fill
in that customfield.

The problem I'm having now is that the customer can see the custom field
value, which is not really an issue, but also can see the link to our
backend system.

As you can imagine, this is not what I want.

 

I have found the file where that link is generated, so I thought that I
could edit it to filter on the groupname Customers.

The only problem is now, I don't have a clue how to do that.

 

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

 

Thank you in advance.

 

Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards,

Richard Pijnenburg 

 

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Re: [rt-users] Customfields question

2009-11-25 Thread Richard Pijnenburg
Hi Emmanuel,

That is correct.
The only problem is:
1. The customer must be able to fill in the customfield with ticket
creation.
2. The customer may view the value of the customfield when viewing the
ticket.
3. the customer may _not_ see the link.

I haven't been able yet to get that effect done with the rights.

Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards,

Richard Pijnenburg 
Changes and Incident Coordinator

WideXS  http://www.widexs.nl
Tel +31 (0)20 7570780  Fax +31 (0)20 7570789
Zekeringstraat 43,1014 BV Amsterdam, NL

-Original Message-
From: rt-users-boun...@lists.bestpractical.com
[mailto:rt-users-boun...@lists.bestpractical.com] On Behalf Of Emmanuel
Lacour
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 10:09 AM
To: rt-users@lists.bestpractical.com
Subject: Re: [rt-users] Customfields question

On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 09:47:52AM +0100, Richard Pijnenburg wrote:
 Dear List,
 
  
 
 I have created a Customfield that links to a webpage ( our own backend
 system ) for our employees.
 
 We have enabled the SelfService page where our customers can also fill
 in that customfield.
 
 The problem I'm having now is that the customer can see the custom
field
 value, which is not really an issue, but also can see the link to our
 backend system.
 
 As you can imagine, this is not what I want.
 

You should be able to resolve this with proper rights on those
customfields (no rights for Unprivileged users).

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Re: [rt-users] Customfields question

2009-11-25 Thread Richard Pijnenburg
Hi Emmanuel,

I found that file yeah.
It's only unclear what code I need to make the filter for it.
Unfortunate my coding experience is more in php then perl :-)

Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards,

Richard Pijnenburg 


-Original Message-
From: rt-users-boun...@lists.bestpractical.com
[mailto:rt-users-boun...@lists.bestpractical.com] On Behalf Of Emmanuel
Lacour
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 10:42 AM
To: rt-users@lists.bestpractical.com
Subject: Re: [rt-users] Customfields question

On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 10:18:41AM +0100, Richard Pijnenburg wrote:
 Hi Emmanuel,
 
 That is correct.
 The only problem is:
 1. The customer must be able to fill in the customfield with ticket
 creation.
 2. The customer may view the value of the customfield when viewing the
 ticket.
 3. the customer may _not_ see the link.
 

ok, then you have to modify: share/html/Elements/ShowCustomFields

look for test on $linked.

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Re: [rt-users] Customfields question

2009-11-25 Thread Richard Pijnenburg
Hi Emmanuel,

It works perfect :-)
Thanks a lot.

--

Another quick question.
It would be handy for the departments to have different categories in
the queues so I can group them in a way.
For example with our support department I have 3 queues: Support,
Windows, Linux.
These 3 can be in a group Support
For our administration department I have other queues and those I want
under a group Administration.

Is there already a modification for this?

Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards,

Richard Pijnenburg 


-Original Message-
From: rt-users-boun...@lists.bestpractical.com
[mailto:rt-users-boun...@lists.bestpractical.com] On Behalf Of Emmanuel
Lacour
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 11:04 AM
To: rt-users@lists.bestpractical.com
Subject: Re: [rt-users] Customfields question

On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 10:46:18AM +0100, Richard Pijnenburg wrote:
 Hi Emmanuel,
 
 I found that file yeah.
 It's only unclear what code I need to make the filter for it.
 Unfortunate my coding experience is more in php then perl :-)
 

try something like this (not tested):

diff --git a/share/html/Elements/ShowCustomFields
b/share/html/Elements/ShowCustomFields
index ddb8b72..ad8869d 100644
--- a/share/html/Elements/ShowCustomFields
+++ b/share/html/Elements/ShowCustomFields
@@ -83,7 +83,7 @@ $m-callback(
 my $print_value = sub {
 my ($cf, $value) = @_;
 my $linked = $cf-LinkValueTo;
-if ( $linked ) {
+if ( $linked  $m-request_comp-path !~ m|/SelfService/| ) {
 $m-out('a href='. $value-LinkValueTo .' target=_new');
 }
 my $comp = ShowCustomField. $cf-Type;
@@ -98,7 +98,7 @@ my $print_value = sub {
 } else {
 $m-out( $m-interp-apply_escapes( $value-Content, 'h' ) );
 }
-$m-out('/a') if $linked;
+$m-out('/a') if ( $linked  $m-request_comp-path !~
m|/SelfService/| );
 
 # This section automatically populates a div with the
IncludeContentForValue for this custom
 # field if it's been defined

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