Re: [silk] Thou shall not be disgustingly rich
On 11-Mar-08, at 2:38 AM, Srini Ramakrishnan wrote: The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into Hell. But, but, but, don't souls supposedly just float around until judgement day, when they can expected to get sorted into heaven or hell? Or have the procedures changed? Are the powers that be tiring of waiting for the day?
Re: [silk] Thou shall not be disgustingly rich
But, but, but, don't souls supposedly just float around until judgement day, when they can expected to get sorted into heaven or hell? Or have the procedures changed? Are the powers that be tiring of waiting for the day? they have waiting rooms called 'purgatory', 'limbo' and 'hell'. though hell has always sounded like the most entertaining one. That reminds me of the Haw Par Villa in Singapore (Tiger Balm Gardens) where different varieties of Hell and some really imaginative methods of torture..the place had become quite seedy when I saw it, though, wonder if it is still a tourist attraction in the new glitzy Singapore... Deepa. On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 2:21 PM, ashok _ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 9:36 AM, Kiran Jonnalagadda wrote: The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into Hell. But, but, but, don't souls supposedly just float around until judgement day, when they can expected to get sorted into heaven or hell? Or have the procedures changed? Are the powers that be tiring of waiting for the day? they have waiting rooms called 'purgatory', 'limbo' and 'hell'. though hell has always sounded like the most entertaining one.
Re: [silk] Thou shall not be disgustingly rich
On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 9:36 AM, Kiran Jonnalagadda wrote: The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into Hell. But, but, but, don't souls supposedly just float around until judgement day, when they can expected to get sorted into heaven or hell? Or have the procedures changed? Are the powers that be tiring of waiting for the day? they have waiting rooms called 'purgatory', 'limbo' and 'hell'. though hell has always sounded like the most entertaining one.
[silk] Print to Web Publishing Query
Hello! I was wondering if anyone on the list had some experience in matters relating to the translation of print documents to the web in such a way that formatting is preserved. Essentially, we're trying to move books from print/InDesign/Corel formats to the Web, with each page as a high res JPEG. These being illustrated books, we want to preserve the layout and formatting in the translation and mark the coordinates of text spaces within the EXIF data such that we can then overlay text in different languages from translations done on the 'web. Assuming we were able to mark the text box as co-ordinates, either manually or via EXIF what would we do about the background colour and the existing text? If we mark it as a text box with white background, it would be sub-optimal and if we float the new text over it, with a transparent background, the old text will still show. One possible way is to create the JPEGs of the pages from the InDesign/Corel master without the text but again, some automated method would be ideal. Would anyone know of a method or a company that could help with this? Thank you. Best, Gautam
Re: [silk] Print to Web Publishing Query
Gautam John wrote: [ on 03:47 PM 3/11/2008 ] I was wondering if anyone on the list had some experience in matters relating to the translation of print documents to the web in such a way that formatting is preserved. Have you tried converting them to PDFs? As an experiment, with one of the various free print to PDF converters first? Udhay -- ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))
Re: [silk] Print to Web Publishing Query
On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 4:06 PM, Udhay Shankar N [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the various free print to PDF converters first? Yes. I can do that but a PDF does not solve my requirements of: 1. Being able to display the pages on the 'web as I could with JPEGs. 2. Being able to overlay the original and other text in the area for text. I'm not sure if I'm explaining this correctly, though. Best, Gautam
Re: [silk] Print to Web Publishing Query
On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 4:11 PM, Gautam John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not sure if I'm explaining this correctly, though. Let me try this again: Okay, let me try to explain. I work with a non-profit that publishes childrens books. And we have these books in English. Now we want to upload them to a wiki type place, which we are developing but ideas are welcome, where people can take the English book and translate/edit the text and it will overlay this text on the pictures using the original layout. Then they can print it as a book. To upload the layout and the pictures, I need to do so as JPEGs but need to mark the text areas. Hence the queries.
Re: [silk] Print to Web Publishing Query
Gautam John wrote: To upload the layout and the pictures, I need to do so as JPEGs but need to mark the text areas. Hence the queries. Can't you use CSS to place text? I'm not really qualified to talk, just wondering. Sajith. -- Don't you wish you had more energy... or less ambition? 9DB8FF06 : CB80 0BA6 7D13 B10A 6FBB D43E B4D2 28AD 9DB8 FF06
Re: [silk] Print to Web Publishing Query
On 11-Mar-08, at 4:29 PM, Gautam John wrote: Okay, let me try to explain. I work with a non-profit that publishes childrens books. And we have these books in English. Now we want to upload them to a wiki type place, which we are developing but ideas are welcome, where people can take the English book and translate/edit the text and it will overlay this text on the pictures using the original layout. Then they can print it as a book. To upload the layout and the pictures, I need to do so as JPEGs but need to mark the text areas. Hence the queries. One of Adobe's PDF generation tools can scan a page of text, apply OCR to extract the text, then generate a PDF file with the text hidden behind the image, so that you only see the image, but when you search for a piece of text, the relevant area of the image gets highlighted. Not very web friendly, but a great archival tool. Would that work?
Re: [silk] Print to Web Publishing Query
On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 5:18 PM, Kiran Jonnalagadda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not very web friendly, but a great archival tool. Would that work? oooh! sweet! What's it called? And I assume I can then convert the PDF to a JPEG. So the text is a separate layer? Thank you!
Re: [silk] Print to Web Publishing Query
Gautam John wrote: On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 4:50 PM, Sajith T S [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can't you use CSS to place text? I'm not really qualified to talk, just wondering. I will check on that. Thank you! I think it should be quite possible with CSS. Especially if you use a separate print css file which you can use to format the page only at the time of printing to represent your book layout. eg : The background of the div would correspond to the image of the page, and the text would be a nested div at the precise position you wanted. That way, you could make the screen version more amenable to data entry, using a separate screen css file and restrict the precise layout, only to the print version. You would have lines like this in the head section of the page. link rel=stylesheet type=text/css href=screen.css media=screen / link rel=stylesheet type=text/css href=print.css media=print / Bharath
Re: [silk] Print to Web Publishing Query
On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 5:23 PM, Bharath Chari [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it should be quite possible with CSS. Thanks Bharath. A quick question, would you know of an easy way to mark the text box coordinates in an automated fashion or would that still have to be done manually? I wonder if the Adobe tool Kiran talked about can help with that.
Re: [silk] Print to Web Publishing Query
Gautam John wrote: A quick question, would you know of an easy way to mark the text box coordinates in an automated fashion or would that still have to be done manually? I wonder if the Adobe tool Kiran talked about can help with that. I think it may have to be manual. I suspect the tool Kiran is referring to will _extract_ text, and remove all formatting. As he said, this is for archival, and search. I don't think the layout will be preserved. Bharath
Re: [silk] Print to Web Publishing Query
On 11-Mar-08, at 5:32 PM, Bharath Chari wrote: I think it may have to be manual. I suspect the tool Kiran is referring to will _extract_ text, and remove all formatting. As he said, this is for archival, and search. I don't think the layout will be preserved. Bharat, the layout is preserved while within the PDF file, except the text is never displayed. Search results are highlighted on the image itself using the text as a reference. Gautam, I think this is standard with Acrobat. See this: http://www.planetpdf.com/enterprise/article.asp?ContentID=6860
Re: [silk] Print to Web Publishing Query
On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 5:32 PM, Bharath Chari [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: for archival, and search. I don't think the layout will be preserved. Damn! There goes the easy route I was hoping for. Is there a company that does this sort of digitisation work? I've vaguely heard of Ugam in Mumbai. Any other leads? Thank you!
Re: [silk] Print to Web Publishing Query
On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 4:29 PM, Gautam John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: are welcome, where people can take the English book and translate/edit the text and it will overlay this text on the pictures using the original layout. Then they can print it as a book. To upload the Gautam: Let's see if I get this: 1. You need people to read text in English and translate it into another language 2. You will then place the translated text on top of the picture and print If this is right, Bharath's CSS based solution would work the best. All you need to do is to show people the image for reference (maybe even without any text), the text in English, and an input box for the translated text. You'd need to restrict the number of characters people can enter into the input box so that you can fit the text. This would also vary with language. Seems fairly simple to me, but I don't think you have an automated solution, as each image would have varying text sizes and placement co-ordinates. On the other hand, you could do it in a complex way. Show people a reference image, have an input box to collect the translated text, generate a pdf file with the text in the right place (using say Latex scripts), and offer the PDF for download. This would let people print a high resolution document, as opposed to a 72 dpi RGB image that the CSS method would give you. Ram
Re: [silk] Print to Web Publishing Query
On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 6:26 PM, Ramakrishnan Sundaram [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let's see if I get this: About right. 1. You need people to read text in English and translate it into another language Yes. These are books, so maintaining the layout, of pictures to text, is crucial. 2. You will then place the translated text on top of the picture and print Ideally, we'd be able to strip out the original text and lay the translated text in that very same area. Failing which, we'll lay the translated text over the original text but it's not going to look pretty because we'd lose the background colours and it'll be an ungainly white/other coloured block with text over the image. Seems fairly simple to me, but I don't think you have an automated That's the trouble. We have a library of close to a 1000 books for which we'll have to do this co-ordinate location for. Manually. I'm thinking the project will be DoA if we use this method unless we can outsource it, reliably so. generate a pdf file with the text in the right place (using say Latex I shall look into this as well. Of course, I now think I'm on over my head as well. Thank you!
Re: [silk] Print to Web Publishing Query
On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 5:57 PM, Kiran Jonnalagadda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gautam, I think this is standard with Acrobat. See this: Thanks!
Re: [silk] Print to Web Publishing Query
On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 6:40 PM, Gautam John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ideally, we'd be able to strip out the original text and lay the translated text in that very same area. That can't be automated. When you prepare the books for this process, it's probably be better to create the images that you'd show on the website with the text in English, and let the backend do the stripping and replacing. That's the trouble. We have a library of close to a 1000 books for which we'll have to do this co-ordinate location for. It's easier because you have so many books - the cost per book comes down vastly. Are you going to sell this stuff or give it away for free? Ram
Re: [silk] Print to Web Publishing Query
On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 5:56 AM, Ramakrishnan Sundaram [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If this is right, Bharath's CSS based solution would work the best. All you need to do is to show people the image for reference (maybe even without any text), the text in English, and an input box for the translated text. You'd need to restrict the number of characters people can enter into the input box so that you can fit the text. This would also vary with language. In addition to the variation in length of text in different languages, there is also the problem of how some languages are typeset. Will aright to left language (hebrew, arabic) work with the layout unchanged? What about languages where the printed layout is top to bottom and back to front (Japanese)? Thaths -- Bart: We were just planning the father-son river rafting trip. Homer: Hehe. You don't have a son. Sudhakar ChandraSlacker Without Borders
Re: [silk] Print to Web Publishing Query
On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 6:49 PM, Ramakrishnan Sundaram [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: website with the text in English, and let the backend do the stripping and replacing. Right. down vastly. Are you going to sell this stuff or give it away for free? For free. It's part of an Access to Knowledge/Open Access model that we're in the process of developing.
Re: [silk] Print to Web Publishing Query
On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 6:54 PM, Thaths [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In addition to the variation in length of text in different languages, there is also the problem of how some languages are typeset. Will I think we could modify the spacing and font sizing, on the fly, to accommodate for marginal changes in length. aright to left language (hebrew, arabic) work with the layout unchanged? What about languages where the printed layout is top to Thank you. Something new to worry about... ;) Cheers!
Re: [silk] Print to Web Publishing Query
On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 6:56 PM, Gautam John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: down vastly. Are you going to sell this stuff or give it away for free? For free. It's part of an Access to Knowledge/Open Access model that we're in the process of developing. One option you have is to strip the text yourself and upload the PDFs of the stripped files, along with images of the complete files. That will let people translate and edit the PDFs. Make sure that your PDFs are not DRM, though. This will also solve the language direction issue. Make sure you strip text bubbles as well, if you have them. Ram
Re: [silk] Print to Web Publishing Query
On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 7:03 PM, Ramakrishnan Sundaram [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This will also solve the language direction issue. Make sure you strip text bubbles as well, if you have them. I meant text balloons, of course. Don't know why I said bubbles. Ram
Re: [silk] Print to Web Publishing Query
On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 7:03 PM, Ramakrishnan Sundaram [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: will let people translate and edit the PDFs. Make sure that your PDFs are not DRM, though. No DRM. For sure. But is there a way to edit PDF's online? I've been working on the assumption that it can't be done and hence breaking it down to the layout-picture-text elements and allowing work on the text and then putting it all back together when downloaded to a PDF for print. This will also solve the language direction issue. Make sure you strip text bubbles as well, if you have them. That's the trouble. There are no text balloons. The text is usually overlaid on the pictures and the pictures are so drawn and laid out that there is place for text to be placed. Unfortunately, I don't have a book online or handy to demonstrate what I mean. Thank you. -Gautam
Re: [silk] Print to Web Publishing Query
the next best thing to automation is something like Amazon's Mechanical turk. You could upload all the images and have volunteers draw boxes around the text (don't ask me how you would do this, some kind of program to measure mouse clicks on an image), to designate where the replacement text on an image goes. If you could figure out a very simple procedure for volunteers to draw boxes, double check boxes that have been drawn, then you're only problem is paying for the labor (for which you will need to set up a paypal donations account ;) Isn't this what Yunus won a Nobel for ;) and Thath's problem is less difficult that it sounds on the web... left to right and right to left are equivalent when the text is in bubbles/balooons, and since the pages are addressed individuall, they are always in the right order (I.e. there is no back to front Japanese version online, only in print, right?) interesting problem. Here's another one: are all these texts you have out of copyright? ck On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 06:57:27PM +0530, Gautam John wrote: On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 6:54 PM, Thaths [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In addition to the variation in length of text in different languages, there is also the problem of how some languages are typeset. Will I think we could modify the spacing and font sizing, on the fly, to accommodate for marginal changes in length. aright to left language (hebrew, arabic) work with the layout unchanged? What about languages where the printed layout is top to Thank you. Something new to worry about... ;) Cheers!
Re: [silk] Print to Web Publishing Query
On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 6:19 AM, Ramakrishnan Sundaram [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 6:40 PM, Gautam John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ideally, we'd be able to strip out the original text and lay the translated text in that very same area. That can't be automated. That's a very bold and categorical claim... it may not be practical for Gautam to automate it, but it's certainly doable. In fact most OCR software these days does it as a matter of course. It will identify the text areas and image areas as rectangular regions, and allows you to select the text independently of the images. If you convert to Word format it preserves the text block flow, which should allow you to replace the text independently of the graphics. I know PDF has the same capability, and Acrobat 8.1 pro will do OCR from scanned images, but I don't know if it creates text blocks or allows you to reflow the text. I believe it does though. -- Charles
Re: [silk] Thou shall not be disgustingly rich
When a person dies, there are 4 possibilities they are effective immediately: 1) Heaven - for pure souls who died in acceptance of God 2) Hell - for impure souls who rejected God 3) Purgatory - for redeemed souls who die in acceptance of God, but whose souls need just a little more saving. Purgatory is the prep school for heaven. A little bit more punishment will occur here and then Jesus (or God himself, depending on which faith you follow) will release the person to Heaven at an unknown date. 4) Limbo - for those souls who do not have earthly / wilful / mortal sins, but have not been freed from original sin. This includes unbaptized babies, non Christians who have not known Jesus or God etc. After the second coming, there will be a Judgment day. All those who are dead will become undead / ressurected and their souls will be re-united with their bodies. God will then pronounce judgement. (Long line of good guys to His right, and bad 'uns to His left). 1) Those who were already in Heaven will remain in Heaven, except that their bodies are re-united with them, so they will be able to feel the physical pleasures of Heaven as well. 2) Those who were already in hell will remain in hell, except that their bodies will now be able to experience the pains of hell fully. 3) Those who are in purgatory will be released to Heaven (finally - unless they had been released earlier). 4) Those who are in limbo have no prescribed path. 5) Those who are alive will be sorted immediately. It is unclear if they will first die, then be resurrected before judgment is pronounced or whether this red-tape will be deemed unnecessary. The nature of Heaven and Hell are very clear even before judgment day. IE - they are not simply holding cells for future pains or pleasures. Pains and pleasures will be immediate upon death, but will not be felt in a physical / bodily form until after Judgment. Hope this clears things up helps in making your choices. Anjana. - Original Message From: ashok _ [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 2:51:54 AM Subject: Re: [silk] Thou shall not be disgustingly rich On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 9:36 AM, Kiran Jonnalagadda wrote: The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into Hell. But, but, but, don't souls supposedly just float around until judgement day, when they can expected to get sorted into heaven or hell? Or have the procedures changed? Are the powers that be tiring of waiting for the day? they have waiting rooms called 'purgatory', 'limbo' and 'hell'. though hell has always sounded like the most entertaining one. Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: [silk] Thou shall not be disgustingly rich
The mind is its own place and can make a hell out of heaven and heaven out of hell. -christopher marlowe I guess this means we don't have to wait to die to find out where we are going! On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 8:02 PM, The smaller the better [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When a person dies, there are 4 possibilities they are effective immediately: 1) Heaven - for pure souls who died in acceptance of God 2) Hell - for impure souls who rejected God 3) Purgatory - for redeemed souls who die in acceptance of God, but whose souls need just a little more saving. Purgatory is the prep school for heaven. A little bit more punishment will occur here and then Jesus (or God himself, depending on which faith you follow) will release the person to Heaven at an unknown date. 4) Limbo - for those souls who do not have earthly / wilful / mortal sins, but have not been freed from original sin. This includes unbaptized babies, non Christians who have not known Jesus or God etc. After the second coming, there will be a Judgment day. All those who are dead will become undead / ressurected and their souls will be re-united with their bodies. God will then pronounce judgement. (Long line of good guys to His right, and bad 'uns to His left). 1) Those who were already in Heaven will remain in Heaven, except that their bodies are re-united with them, so they will be able to feel the physical pleasures of Heaven as well. 2) Those who were already in hell will remain in hell, except that their bodies will now be able to experience the pains of hell fully. 3) Those who are in purgatory will be released to Heaven (finally - unless they had been released earlier). 4) Those who are in limbo have no prescribed path. 5) Those who are alive will be sorted immediately. It is unclear if they will first die, then be resurrected before judgment is pronounced or whether this red-tape will be deemed unnecessary. The nature of Heaven and Hell are very clear even before judgment day. IE - they are not simply holding cells for future pains or pleasures. Pains and pleasures will be immediate upon death, but will not be felt in a physical / bodily form until after Judgment. Hope this clears things up helps in making your choices. Anjana. - Original Message From: ashok _ [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 2:51:54 AM Subject: Re: [silk] Thou shall not be disgustingly rich On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 9:36 AM, Kiran Jonnalagadda wrote: The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into Hell. But, but, but, don't souls supposedly just float around until judgement day, when they can expected to get sorted into heaven or hell? Or have the procedures changed? Are the powers that be tiring of waiting for the day? they have waiting rooms called 'purgatory', 'limbo' and 'hell'. though hell has always sounded like the most entertaining one. Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: [silk] Thou shall not be disgustingly rich
This is very Tolkien-esque. An imagination so fantastic and so well defined, it's hard to believe it's not true. No wonder it works for some people. -- Kiran Jonnalagadda http://jace.seacrow.com/ http://jace.livejournal.com/ On 12-Mar-08, at 8:32 AM, The smaller the better wrote: When a person dies, there are 4 possibilities they are effective immediately: 1) Heaven - for pure souls who died in acceptance of God 2) Hell - for impure souls who rejected God 3) Purgatory - for redeemed souls who die in acceptance of God, but whose souls need just a little more saving. Purgatory is the prep school for heaven. A little bit more punishment will occur here and then Jesus (or God himself, depending on which faith you follow) will release the person to Heaven at an unknown date. 4) Limbo - for those souls who do not have earthly / wilful / mortal sins, but have not been freed from original sin. This includes unbaptized babies, non Christians who have not known Jesus or God etc. After the second coming, there will be a Judgment day. All those who are dead will become undead / ressurected and their souls will be re-united with their bodies. God will then pronounce judgement. (Long line of good guys to His right, and bad 'uns to His left). 1) Those who were already in Heaven will remain in Heaven, except that their bodies are re-united with them, so they will be able to feel the physical pleasures of Heaven as well. 2) Those who were already in hell will remain in hell, except that their bodies will now be able to experience the pains of hell fully. 3) Those who are in purgatory will be released to Heaven (finally - unless they had been released earlier). 4) Those who are in limbo have no prescribed path. 5) Those who are alive will be sorted immediately. It is unclear if they will first die, then be resurrected before judgment is pronounced or whether this red-tape will be deemed unnecessary. The nature of Heaven and Hell are very clear even before judgment day. IE - they are not simply holding cells for future pains or pleasures. Pains and pleasures will be immediate upon death, but will not be felt in a physical / bodily form until after Judgment. Hope this clears things up helps in making your choices. Anjana. - Original Message From: ashok _ [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 2:51:54 AM Subject: Re: [silk] Thou shall not be disgustingly rich On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 9:36 AM, Kiran Jonnalagadda wrote: The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into Hell. But, but, but, don't souls supposedly just float around until judgement day, when they can expected to get sorted into heaven or hell? Or have the procedures changed? Are the powers that be tiring of waiting for the day? they have waiting rooms called 'purgatory', 'limbo' and 'hell'. though hell has always sounded like the most entertaining one. Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
[silk] GoI asks Blackberry of Encryption Keys
BlackBerry has an estimated 400,000 subscribers in India. RIM has been asked to give access to its algorithims (needed to decrypt messages), according to a source. Rajesh Chharia, President, Internet Service Providers Association of India (ISPAI), noted: Routine check-ups are fine with us since the issue is one of national security. All ISPs must, and will, cooperate. What is of concern, though, is the fact that we have been asked to reduce the encryption from 128-bit to 40-bit, which is ridiculous. snip http://in.rediff.com/money/2008/mar/12berry.htm
