Re: CSRe: Doctors...

2007-10-19 Thread Mark Siepak
You haven't answered the important question, if you are vaccinated,
what
are you afraid of?

There was no question asked, but to answer anyway

Burying the bodies of stupid people, and the resultant waves of disease
and pest overpopulation that cannot be vaccinated against.

Can you say bubonic plague?

the mark of civilization is the way it treats its' young, feeble, and
aged. You would let everyone die but the fit, healthy, lucky ones.


Sick Bastard, if I may re-use a term

No more, this is OT, and your ideas and morals are so corrupt you are
not worth my time.


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Re: CSRe: Doctors...

2007-10-19 Thread Mark Siepak
Never sent you anything personally


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Re: CSRe: Doctors...

2007-10-19 Thread Mark Siepak
Sorry, Mark, your Rights stop Sorry, Mark, your Rights stop WHERE MINE
START.


So you cannot see the obverse, yours stop WHERE MINE START.


Gee - if you ever get your way, I sure hope those 10,000 will stop by
some day and thank you for being so generous with their lives.


Hopefully the millions you would allow to die would perform the same
duty.



It
couldn't possibly be the years of fast food, drugs, cokes, microwaved
food, etc, etc ad nauseum...


Babies die from all the communcable diseases. Explain that, but not to
me.

End of discussion.

Go OT


or relate it back to CS/EIS





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Re: CSRe: Doctors...

2007-10-19 Thread Mark Siepak
It is


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Re: CSRe: Doctors...

2007-10-19 Thread Mark Siepak
millions of dead bodies will create secondary waves of infection,
scavengers, predators, etc.

can you remember the bubonic plague? millions died, and not all from
plague!


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Re: CSRe: Doctors...

2007-10-19 Thread Ode Coyote



Neither they or I have forced anything on anyone.


You can choose otherwise at any time, but then, it's all on your head and 
no one to blame.


Defying a quarantine or refusing to play by the rules in their game, when 
*not playing* is an alternative [as in, stay at home]is you, forcing 
*your* opinions on others.


BTW, I am heavily armed.  Never knew why, till now.

LOL

Ode


My beef is with people - like Ode - who believe they have some kind of 
Right to force their medical beliefs and opinions *and* *practices* on me 
and my family and friends - and anyone else who claims the Right to own 
their own life and body.


I consider anyone like this my mortal enemy, and will act accordingly 
should we ever meet and they make their intentions known to me.



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CSRe: Doctors...

2007-10-19 Thread Simon Jester

On 10/19/2007, Mark Siepak (bro...@gtcinternet.com) wrote:

 You haven't answered the important question, if you are vaccinated,
what
 are you afraid of?

There was no question asked, but to answer anyway


Yes there was - although it was in the form of a statement that no one 
had answered it yet...


It was:

I'd still like to hear why people who believe in the safety and
efficacy of vaccinations (and therefore are vaccinated themselves,
right?) are so afraid of the unvaccinated.


but to answer anyway

Burying the bodies of stupid people, and the resultant waves of disease
and pest overpopulation that cannot be vaccinated against.

Can you say bubonic plague?


Ok - so, since I am of the firm opinion that the eating of large 
quantities of dead food in the form of microwaved food, McDonald's, 
candy, soda pop, etc ad nauseum, it is my absolute Right that anyone who 
engages in said behavior should be placed in a mental institution for 
rehabilitation, where they will be forced to learn about proper 
nutrition and how to take care of their body.


Why should this be allowed? Because otherwise, all of us who are already 
aware of this knowledge and are willing to practice it are forced to pay 
vastly higher costs for insurance, as well as suffer the spiraling costs 
of medical treatment to treat these stupid people (your words) when they 
get sick due to their poor lifestyle choices.


Can you say Cancer/MS/MD/any of the other hundreds of different 
'diseases' that have been created by these poor lifestyle choices?



the mark of civilization is the way it treats its' young, feeble, and
aged. You would let everyone die but the fit, healthy, lucky ones.


Actually, you'd be surprised... I recently had to watch a favorite aunt 
die a slow, painful death from Cancer, while she chugged away at her 6-8 
diet pepsi's a day, ate microwaved food exclusively, lots of white 
bread, margarine - the SAD diet, basically.


Vibrant health has nothing to do with luck - and yes, I would advocate 
that people should be required to suffer the consequences of their own 
poor choices in life - ESPECIALLY if the alternative being suggested is 
to force other people to pay for their mistakes and VOLUNTARY CHOICES.


That doesn't mean I'm a heartless bastard - it means I'm an HONEST 
bastard. Why honest? Because to suggest that others be forced AT 
GUNPOINT to pay for the mistakes and voluntary choices of other people 
is to advocate theft and/or extortion.



Sick Bastard, if I may re-use a term

No more, this is OT, and your ideas and morals are so corrupt you are
not worth my time.


Dude, if you're gonna talk to yourself, at least keep it off-list...


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Re: CSRe: Doctors...

2007-10-18 Thread Dee
Just to put my two penneth in here.  My daughter just had the 'flue vaccine,
and she has 'shed' it to me, her husband, and her son.  This is what you are
saying in reverse.  Dee 
 
---Original Message---
 
From: Simon Jester
Date: 18/10/2007 05:20:30
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: CSRe: Doctors...
 
 
On 10/17/2007 Mark Siepak wrote:
 Well, now, aren't you forcing YOUR medical beliefs and opinions
 *and* *practices* on ME when you refuse to be vaccinated against
 communicable diseases like smallpox or polio?
 

Re: CSRe: Doctors...

2007-10-18 Thread Simon Jester

On 10/18/2007, Simon Jester (tansta...@libertytrek.org) wrote:

Mark,

I'll only say this once...

Do NOT send any more email direct to me. If you want to discuss list 
talk, just do it on the list. 


Sorry Mark,

It was late, and I must not have looked at the headers...

As I said in my second post - please change your Reply-To to honor the 
list default of 'Reply to list'...



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Re: CSRe: Doctors...

2007-10-18 Thread Carol Ann

Simon Jester tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote:

If you believe vaccinations work, and you are vaccinated, WHY ARE YOU 
AFRAID OF THE UNVACCINATED?

If one wanted discuss a hypothesis.the  above premise/question is succinct






Regards, Carol Ann ~ The only thing that is different is how you think..
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/archivepix.html
 __
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: CSRe: Doctors...

2007-10-18 Thread Marshall Dudley

Mark Siepak wrote:

My beef is with people - like Ode - who believe they have some kind of
Right to force their medical beliefs and opinions *and* *practices* on
me and my family and friends - and anyone else who claims the Right to
own their own life and body.



Well, now, aren't you forcing YOUR medical beliefs and opinions *and*
*practices* on ME when you refuse to be vaccinated against communicable
diseases like smallpox or polio? After all, I DO think vaccinations
work, and even if the rate of bad reactions was 10% (more like one and a
half percent), I think it is worth maybe 10,000 with bad reactions, to
avoid having pandemics kill millions every 15-30 years. Of course, if my
child were one with the bad reaction, I would probably want to blame
someone.
  
Somehow this makes no sense to me.  You say that you believe 
vaccinations work, and that someone choosing to not take them is forcing 
their beliefs and opinions on you when they refuse to be vaccinated.  
That is like saying that someone is forcing their religion on you if 
they go to Church (or not). What are you talking about? How does what 
one chooses to do with their body force anything on you?  Are you saying 
it is because you may catch something from them? If so, then that is 
contrary to you saying that you believe vaccinations work,, unless you 
are saying that you want everyone else to be vaccinated but you.  Can 
you restate this in a way that is logical?


Marshall



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Re: CSRe: Doctors...

2007-10-18 Thread John Plumridge
Yeah, me too. Really, I want a vaccine against that nazi fascist attitude 
of the public...it's pandemic, this abandonment of common sense and worship 
of paid experts to think for us.


JOhn

--On 17 October 2007 15:23:05 -0700 Kurt Milkowski 
kurt.milkow...@sbcglobal.net wrote:




I think Simon is just fed up with the nazi facist attitude of the public
as am I.

Kurt

Richard r...@xxicenturysilver.com wrote:

Simon, why are you so aggressive ? are you really a tough guy or
just pretending . ? What is a pinch of salt  in your lingo ? Cheer
up or chill , please ! Richard
On 17/10/2007, at 18:40, Simon Jester wrote:


On 10/17/2007, Dave (ddar...@centurytel.net) wrote:

Simon:
Do you consider that Ode just might be stirring the pot?
In the distant past Ode expressed views that weren't that much
different than yours.


When someone advocates something like he is advocating, in the
manner and medium that he is, no, don't consider such a possibility.

If he is, then he is a sick bastard... and I would happily
'explain' this to him in person.


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Re: CSRe: Doctors...

2007-10-18 Thread John Plumridge
Greater good for society, means don't do wrong. You believe in vaccines, 
some people believe witch doctors. I cannot force witch doctors on you. You 
cannot force vaccinations on me. I c an't even force fresh air on you.


The greater evil for society is when people practice 'bitter medicine' for 
the greater good of society. An excuse always, carried by the necessary 
dupes to get a consensus, with an ulterior motive. The greater good is 
immoral, wrong, because the 'bitter medicine' is premeditated harm.


for Society is a collection of individuals. No one, even from a lottery is 
to be condemmned just because you fear death.
Society is all the people, even those you choose not to name, and think are 
nameless. There is no good for society with intervention. It's against the 
individual, and nature.

Society is not more important than just one of the people.
You may mean, by society, human survival: but it is not the same thing. 
Without vaccinations , and with natural death, the population will be 
fitter. Now that's a greater good, because no one needs to commit a 
horrible crime, or fear death. We can be willing to die if we're weak. 
Which is the way we're made.



You haven't answered the important question, if you are vaccinated, what 
are you afraid of?


JOhn




--On 17 October 2007 19:21:23 -0400 Mark Siepak bro...@gtcinternet.com 
wrote:



My beef is with people - like Ode - who believe they have some kind of
Right to force their medical beliefs and opinions *and* *practices* on
me and my family and friends - and anyone else who claims the Right to
own their own life and body.


Well, now, aren't you forcing YOUR medical beliefs and opinions *and*
*practices* on ME when you refuse to be vaccinated against communicable
diseases like smallpox or polio? After all, I DO think vaccinations
work, and even if the rate of bad reactions was 10% (more like one and a
half percent), I think it is worth maybe 10,000 with bad reactions, to
avoid having pandemics kill millions every 15-30 years. Of course, if my
child were one with the bad reaction, I would probably want to blame
someone.

Of course, you unvaccinated people could go to Hawaii, so no one else
would die when the inevitable pandemic swept  your 'nation'!

Sometimes the greater good for society is bitter medicine, pun intended.



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CSRe: Doctors...

2007-10-17 Thread Simon Jester

Big Insurance is co-mingled with Big Pharma, and has a vested interest
in drug profits.


Don't forget all of the charitable organizations (like the American 
Cancer Society, etc ad nauseum), the Medical Industry, in the form of 
Hospitals, Schools, etc, and last the Government oversight organizations 
(FDA, FTC, etc)...


Yes, there are decent individual doctors.

But I stand by my prior statement - If enough of them stood up and filed 
a lawsuit (RICO), this monstrous house of cards would come crashing down 
on the heads of these monsters, and many people would go to jail, and 
many would be put to death (not doctors, corporate criminals and BEURORATS).


Our medical profession excels at treating TRAUMA - there is nowhere I'd 
rather be than in one of our emergency rooms, if I'm in an accident of 
some kind. But this type of treatment has absolutely *nothing* to do 
with treating disease.


My beef is not with individual doctors - even the cowards.

My beef is with people - like Ode - who believe they have some kind of 
Right to force their medical beliefs and opinions *and* *practices* on 
me and my family and friends - and anyone else who claims the Right to 
own their own life and body.


I consider anyone like this my mortal enemy, and will act accordingly 
should we ever meet and they make their intentions known to me.



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Re: CSRe: Doctors...

2007-10-17 Thread Dave

 Simon:
Do you consider that Ode just might be stirring the pot?
In the distant past Ode expressed views that weren't that much different 
than yours.

Dave

Simon Jester wrote:


Big Insurance is co-mingled with Big Pharma, and has a vested interest
in drug profits.



Don't forget all of the charitable organizations (like the American 
Cancer Society, etc ad nauseum), the Medical Industry, in the form of 
Hospitals, Schools, etc, and last the Government oversight 
organizations (FDA, FTC, etc)...


Yes, there are decent individual doctors.

But I stand by my prior statement - If enough of them stood up and 
filed a lawsuit (RICO), this monstrous house of cards would come 
crashing down on the heads of these monsters, and many people would go 
to jail, and many would be put to death (not doctors, corporate 
criminals and BEURORATS).


Our medical profession excels at treating TRAUMA - there is nowhere 
I'd rather be than in one of our emergency rooms, if I'm in an 
accident of some kind. But this type of treatment has absolutely 
*nothing* to do with treating disease.


My beef is not with individual doctors - even the cowards.

My beef is with people - like Ode - who believe they have some kind of 
Right to force their medical beliefs and opinions *and* *practices* on 
me and my family and friends - and anyone else who claims the Right to 
own their own life and body.


I consider anyone like this my mortal enemy, and will act accordingly 
should we ever meet and they make their intentions known to me.



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CSRe: Doctors...

2007-10-17 Thread Simon Jester

On 10/17/2007, Dave (ddar...@centurytel.net) wrote:

Simon:
Do you consider that Ode just might be stirring the pot?
In the distant past Ode expressed views that weren't that much 
different than yours.


When someone advocates something like he is advocating, in the manner 
and medium that he is, no,  don't consider such a possibility.


If he is, then he is a sick bastard... and I would happily 'explain' 
this to him in person.



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Re: CSRe: Doctors...Simon

2007-10-17 Thread Clayton Family
Simon, please.  no one on this list is out to get you. We are all 
in the same boat, and I think all of us stand firm on our rights to own 
our own bodies, and use our own judgement, and also respect other's 
opinions and rights to do the same.  Kathryn


On Oct 17, 2007, at 11:20 AM, Simon Jester wrote:

My beef is with people - like Ode - who believe they have some kind of 
Right to force their medical beliefs and opinions *and* *practices* on 
me and my family and friends - and anyone else who claims the Right to 
own their own life and body.


I consider anyone like this my mortal enemy, and will act accordingly 
should we ever meet and they make their intentions known to me.



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Re: CSRe: Doctors...

2007-10-17 Thread faith gagne
I really think you should stop worrying about seeing doctors because perhaps 
someday in the not too distant future you won't be able to afford to see 
them at all.  Medicare is paying for fewer and fewer medical services all 
the time.


Faith




- Original Message - 
From: Simon Jester tansta...@libertytrek.org

To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 12:20 PM
Subject: CSRe: Doctors...



Big Insurance is co-mingled with Big Pharma, and has a vested interest
in drug profits.


Don't forget all of the charitable organizations (like the American Cancer 
Society, etc ad nauseum), the Medical Industry, in the form of Hospitals, 
Schools, etc, and last the Government oversight organizations (FDA, FTC, 
etc)...


Yes, there are decent individual doctors.

But I stand by my prior statement - If enough of them stood up and filed a 
lawsuit (RICO), this monstrous house of cards would come crashing down on 
the heads of these monsters, and many people would go to jail, and many 
would be put to death (not doctors, corporate criminals and BEURORATS).


Our medical profession excels at treating TRAUMA - there is nowhere I'd 
rather be than in one of our emergency rooms, if I'm in an accident of 
some kind. But this type of treatment has absolutely *nothing* to do with 
treating disease.


My beef is not with individual doctors - even the cowards.

My beef is with people - like Ode - who believe they have some kind of 
Right to force their medical beliefs and opinions *and* *practices* on me 
and my family and friends - and anyone else who claims the Right to own 
their own life and body.


I consider anyone like this my mortal enemy, and will act accordingly 
should we ever meet and they make their intentions known to me.



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Re: CSRe: Doctors...Simon

2007-10-17 Thread faith gagne

Brava Kathryn.

Fatih



- Original Message - 
From: Clayton Family clay...@skypoint.com

To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 12:41 PM
Subject: Re: CSRe: Doctors...Simon


Simon, please.  no one on this list is out to get you. We are all 
in the same boat, and I think all of us stand firm on our rights to own 
our own bodies, and use our own judgement, and also respect other's 
opinions and rights to do the same.  Kathryn


On Oct 17, 2007, at 11:20 AM, Simon Jester wrote:

My beef is with people - like Ode - who believe they have some kind of 
Right to force their medical beliefs and opinions *and* *practices* on 
me and my family and friends - and anyone else who claims the Right to 
own their own life and body.


I consider anyone like this my mortal enemy, and will act accordingly 
should we ever meet and they make their intentions known to me.



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Re: CSRe: Doctors...

2007-10-17 Thread Richard
Simon, why are you so aggressive ?  are you really a tough guy or  
just pretending . ? What is a pinch of salt  in your lingo ? Cheer  
up or chill , please ! Richard

On 17/10/2007, at 18:40, Simon Jester wrote:


On 10/17/2007, Dave (ddar...@centurytel.net) wrote:

Simon:
Do you consider that Ode just might be stirring the pot?
In the distant past Ode expressed views that weren't that much  
different than yours.


When someone advocates something like he is advocating, in the  
manner and medium that he is, no,  don't consider such a possibility.


If he is, then he is a sick bastard... and I would happily  
'explain' this to him in person.



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Re: CSRe: Doctors...

2007-10-17 Thread Kurt Milkowski
I think Simon is just fed up with the nazi facist attitude of the public as am 
I.
   
  Kurt

Richard r...@xxicenturysilver.com wrote:
  Simon, why are you so aggressive ? are you really a tough guy or 
just pretending . ? What is a pinch of salt  in your lingo ? Cheer 
up or chill , please ! Richard
On 17/10/2007, at 18:40, Simon Jester wrote:

 On 10/17/2007, Dave (ddar...@centurytel.net) wrote:
 Simon:
 Do you consider that Ode just might be stirring the pot?
 In the distant past Ode expressed views that weren't that much 
 different than yours.

 When someone advocates something like he is advocating, in the 
 manner and medium that he is, no, don't consider such a possibility.

 If he is, then he is a sick bastard... and I would happily 
 'explain' this to him in person.


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Re: CSRe: Doctors...

2007-10-17 Thread Mark Siepak
My beef is with people - like Ode - who believe they have some kind of
Right to force their medical beliefs and opinions *and* *practices* on
me and my family and friends - and anyone else who claims the Right to
own their own life and body.

Well, now, aren't you forcing YOUR medical beliefs and opinions *and*
*practices* on ME when you refuse to be vaccinated against communicable
diseases like smallpox or polio? After all, I DO think vaccinations
work, and even if the rate of bad reactions was 10% (more like one and a
half percent), I think it is worth maybe 10,000 with bad reactions, to
avoid having pandemics kill millions every 15-30 years. Of course, if my
child were one with the bad reaction, I would probably want to blame
someone.

Of course, you unvaccinated people could go to Hawaii, so no one else
would die when the inevitable pandemic swept  your 'nation'!

Sometimes the greater good for society is bitter medicine, pun intended.



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CSRe: Doctors...

2007-10-17 Thread Simon Jester
I really think you should stop worrying about seeing doctors because 
perhaps someday in the not too distant future you won't be able to 
afford to see them at all.  Medicare is paying for fewer and fewer 
medical services all the time. 


Good. The sooner medicare, medicade, and all of the other extortion 
based, parasitical sources of funding for this medical holocaust of a 
system collapse into dut, the better off we'll all be.


There is absolutely NO delegated authority for the federal government to 
be used as a tool of confiscation to force me to pay for your or anyone 
else's medical care - or housing, insurance, food, clothing or anything 
else for that matter.


I'm sick and tired of people who think they have some kind of claim on 
my life.


And by the way... if the RICO laws were actually enforced, insurance 
companies would not be run by the same people with financial interests 
in the pharmaceutical industry... which means they would be looking to 
reimburse people for the cheapest and most effective treatments, as 
opposed to the most expensive, recurring kind.



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Re: CSRe: Doctors...

2007-10-17 Thread bbanever

Simon,

But it's ok for the Bush cabal to spend your tax dollars on an illegal 
and immoral war in Iraq?   Priorities sir, priorities.
- Original Message - 
From: Simon Jester tansta...@libertytrek.org

To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 8:50 PM
Subject: CSRe: Doctors...


I really think you should stop worrying about seeing doctors because 
perhaps someday in the not too distant future you won't be able to afford 
to see them at all.  Medicare is paying for fewer and fewer medical 
services all the time.


Good. The sooner medicare, medicade, and all of the other extortion based, 
parasitical sources of funding for this medical holocaust of a system 
collapse into dut, the better off we'll all be.


There is absolutely NO delegated authority for the federal government to 
be used as a tool of confiscation to force me to pay for your or anyone 
else's medical care - or housing, insurance, food, clothing or anything 
else for that matter.


I'm sick and tired of people who think they have some kind of claim on my 
life.


And by the way... if the RICO laws were actually enforced, insurance 
companies would not be run by the same people with financial interests in 
the pharmaceutical industry... which means they would be looking to 
reimburse people for the cheapest and most effective treatments, as 
opposed to the most expensive, recurring kind.



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CSRe: Doctors...

2007-10-17 Thread Simon Jester

Mark,

I'll only say this once...

Do NOT send any more email direct to me. If you want to discuss list 
talk, just do it on the list.


On 10/17/2007 Mark Siepak wrote:

Well, now, aren't you forcing YOUR medical beliefs and opinions
*and* *practices* on ME when you refuse to be vaccinated against 
communicable diseases like smallpox or polio?


Oh my god... talk about twisted thinking...


After all, I DO think vaccinations work,


Fine... VACCINATE YOURSELF, then.

And since you're one of 'those'... I'll ask you too...

If you believe vaccinations work, and you are vaccinated, WHY ARE YOU 
AFRAID OF THE UNVACCINATED?


But here's the rub... I DON'T believe they are safe OR effective... in 
fact, I believe that they are FAR more dangerous than any natural bug 
that I MIGHT (or probably WON'T) get.


Sorry, Mark, your Rights stop WHERE MINE START.


and even if the rate of bad reactions was 10%
(more like one and a half percent), I think it is worth maybe 10,000
with bad reactions, to avoid having pandemics kill millions every
15-30 years.


Gee - if you ever get your way, I sure hope those 10,000 will stop by 
some day and thank you for being so generous with their lives.



Of course, if my child were one with the bad reaction, I would
probably want to blame someone.


Of course you would - people like you are always looking to blame anyone 
(the unvaccinated) or anything (the big bad hairy germ), rather than 
take responsiblility or your own state of health (or lack thereof). It 
couldn't possibly be the years of fast food, drugs, cokes, microwaved 
food, etc, etc ad nauseum...



Of course, you unvaccinated people could go to Hawaii, so no one else
would die when the inevitable pandemic swept  your 'nation'!


I repeat my question...

If you believe vaccinations work, and you are vaccinated, WHY ARE YOU 
AFRAID OF THE UNVACCINATED?


Sometimes the greater good for society is bitter medicine, pun 
intended.


Sounds familiar - like something Hitler or Stalin would have said...


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Re: CSRe: Doctors...

2007-10-17 Thread Simon Jester

On 10/18/2007 bbanever wrote:
But it's ok for the Bush cabal to spend your tax dollars on an 
illegal and immoral war in Iraq?   Priorities sir, priorities. 


Ummm... methinks you are ass-u-me-ing something, sir...

I am a Ron Paul republican - meaning, a libertarian (thats small 'l' - I 
don't see eye to eye with a few of their philosophies)...


I am against ALL wars of aggression - which every war we have engaged in 
since maybe the war of 1812 has been...



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