Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
That is expected, when the ph goes too low on CS it causes aggregation, which the pink indicates happened. Then the aggregation continues, and the particles either become too big to absorb in the visible spectrum, or the fall out, either of which will make the liquid become clear. A strong tyndall would indicate the former, and a faint tyndall would indicate the latter. Marshall sol wrote: Ken, I put a drop of vinegar in a previously made yellow batch of CS (about 10 oz), nothing happened, so I added a whole dropper full. It turned a very pretty shade of peach, now, several hours later, it is very nearly clear, with just the faintest hint of pink color, almost undetectable Ok now to perform your suggested test, I'll report on that later.paula - Original Message - From: Ode Coyote To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 4:04 AM Subject: Re: CSYellow tinted CS!! Just for grins and giggles, How about putting a drop of vineger in a newly made sample of CS, let it sit and see what happens. If nothing does, it doesn't necessarily mean that wasn't the problem but if something does happen, it's a pretty close 'fer sher'.
Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
Marshall, If particles have aggregated and fallen out, wouldn't there be visible crud in the bottom of the jar? There is NO visible fall out or plate-out at all in the clear CS with vinegar addedNor any in the CS which when through peach to faint pink and (day or two later) went clear also. At which point I discarded both samples so can't check Tyndall. Since the last thing I want is CS more acid than 3pH I likely won't repeat the experiment. Still nothing falling out of the CS made with a pinch of baking soda, one batch of which I added 1/4 tsp additional baking soda to after it had been sitting a few days---that batch is now very pale straw color though. the extra baking soda upped the pH to about 7.5. TIA, paula - Original Message - From: Marshall Dudley To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 7:52 AM Subject: Re: CSYellow tinted CS!! That is expected, when the ph goes too low on CS it causes aggregation, which the pink indicates happened. Then the aggregation continues, and the particles either become too big to absorb in the visible spectrum, or the fall out, either of which will make the liquid become clear. A strong tyndall would indicate the former, and a faint tyndall would indicate the latter. Marshall sol wrote: Ken, I put a drop of vinegar in a previously made yellow batch of CS (about 10 oz), nothing happened, so I added a whole dropper full. It turned a very pretty shade of peach, now, several hours later, it is very nearly clear, with just the faintest hint of pink color, almost undetectable Ok now to perform your suggested test, I'll report on that later.paula
Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
Hi, Paula, I am open to the possibility that my observations are coincidental. As Mike points out, it is very difficult to control all the variables involved -- almost impossible in my case as a home experimenter.I think, though, that others might just want to keep an eye on their own results and see what comes up. That's my plan. Cheers, JBB On Friday, Oct 3, 2003, at 23:30 Asia/Tokyo, sol wrote: Jonathan, Just thought you might like to know that as I was having trouble with my CS turning yellow more often than not (for the entire past year--the whole time I've been making my own) I looked hard at the moon cycle to see if there was any effect and could not find anyhere. Wonder what the difference is? paula - Original Message - From: Jonathan B. Britten As for Mike's rather sarcastic remarks below, I will say only that there is much to be learned, and that closemindedness precludes learning. A simple point: it could be that his set-up is so well regulated that it eliminates the lunar influence which I and others have observed. This is an obvious and certainly a possibility. I see no cause for such remarks as he makes. As for lunar influence, the work of a Dr. H. S. Burr at Yale, though not widely studied, shows a variety of fascinating and subtle effects of various cycles on biological activity. I will not go and on and with this. I did discover something interesting: moon cycles may be connected to global warming. I had never thought of that! See http://www.cei.org/gencon/014,02819.cfm JBB On Thursday, Oct 2, 2003, at 16:46 Asia/Tokyo, Jason Eaton wrote: Mike: Why don't you, however, share the lab results that were obtained from the study of your production process? And contrast that to the readings you swore you would get? Yes, I am aware of the lab results obtained from your product specifications; what I'm surprised at is your instance that theory outways analytical study -- still. It is quite baffling, but I do enjoy your explorations, ideas, and reports immensely. Best Regards, Jason - Original Message - From: Mike Monett 31dtzj...@sneakemail.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 12:05 AM Subject: Re: CSYellow tinted CS!! url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m62910.html Re: CSYellow tinted CS!! From: Harvey Norris Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 23:01:03 The moon is too far away to influence any of the parameters that affect the cs process. When you get unrepeatable results, you need to control these parameters better. Best Regards, Mike Monett You're up against the consensus here, Thomas the Doubter... scientifically schooled and scientifically fooled. HDN, I need no futher comments here just to make my snyde comments Hyde... Yes, Harvey, I guess you got me pegged. I don't believe in magic or witchcraft. I don't believe in free energy, over-unity, or Tom Bearden's scalar waves. I don't believe in a lot of things that scams are made from. And I don't believe solar flares or the phase of the moon can affect the production of cs. I believe in controlling contamination, current density at the electrodes, quality of the dw, and using precision constant current sources, Faraday's equations, and good instrumentation. And my cs is not affected by the phase of the moon. So the next time you make cs during a full moon, take your frog, circle the cs generator three times in a counterclockwise direction to set up the proper vortex, then three times in a clockwise direction, all the while chanting your favorite mantra. Then eat the frog. Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.515 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 09/02/2003
Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m62995.html Re: CSYellow tinted CS!! From: Malcolm Stebbins Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 23:00:48 Hi Mike, why do you assume the only effects of ion storms are exclusively magnetic? Cause that's the component that shuts down the power grids:) If a magnetic field varies it produces an electrical field, if it varies rapidly, the resultant electromagnetic field will propagate. Sure, but the minimum frequency for efficient propagation is well above the geostorm frequencies. For example, the NIST LF frequency standard transmits at 60KHz, and whistlers cover the audio range. I believe submarine communications take place at 10 Hz, and the Schumann Resonances cover the range from 6 to 10 Hz: http://itss.raytheon.com/cafe/qadir/q768.html All these require a very sensitive receiver and a good antenna array. The cs generator makes a poor receiver, and the short leads make a lousy antenna:) The frequency of GICs is very low (one to a few milliHertz) http://www.hsb.com/thelocomotive/Story/FullStory/ST-FS-SOLAR.html So any induced electric field will be too weak to have any effect on cs. (Please see below.) The effects of both lunar periodic and solar storm variations on human and animal behavior are well documented; see R. O. Becker, Cross Currents (sorry, can't give you the page numbers right now) for a study and additional references. The effects of terrestrial deformation such as those caused by lunar land tides on the generation of electromagnetic anomalies are a commonplace in geological work. No question about that. Animals are much closer to nature than we are, and there are many well-documented cases of dogs giving warning just before major earthquakes. Solar as well as other ionic disturbances are recorded from electrically (static) sensitive devices as well as magnetic (inductive) ones, all due respect to railroad engineers. Shawn Carleson wrote many good articles for The Amateur Scientist in Scientific American. I recall one that used a very sensitive electrometer ic to measure the earth's electric field, and I believe he talked about detecting ion storms. Those chips work down the the femptoamp range. Since the currents are so small, they are well below the noise level in the cs process and can have little effect. But I'll bet railroad tracks get interesting in a geostorm:) Take care, Malcolm Thanks, Malcom. Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m62939.html Re: CSYellow tinted CS!! From: Jonathan B. Britten Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 18:25:06 See also: http://educate-yourself.org/cs/csmooneffects17aug0.shtml Jonathan, Thank you for the interesting link!. Unfortunately, you can design an experiment to give just about any result you wish. The design of experiments (DOE) is a difficult task, and those who can do it well are highly paid. The main difficulty with the eclipse experiment is the CS-300 is a constant voltage device. It is sensitive to the initial conductance of the dw, minor irregularities in the shape of the end of the rods, the supply voltage from the batteries, and so on. The biggest problem is it runs at high current density. This produces misting at the end of the brew, which means ions are converted into oxide. This will change the ionic portion of the ppm measurement. The high current produces hydrogen bubbles at the cathode. These change the wetted area of the rod, which changes the conductance. In fact, the elixa web page describes both of these processes: During the colloid making process, bubbles come off one electrode while the other darkens and emits a fine mist of microscopic silver particles. http://www.elixa.com/silver/ This makes the production of cs very erratic. For an example of what it does to the current vs time curves, please see the curves for 27V in Fig. 1 on my web page at http://www3.sympatico.ca/add.automation/misc/130vdc.htm One solution is to run at lower current density and avoid misting. My investigations in this direction have produced very good results, and are fully documented in the archives. A second solution is to use a constant current to supply current to the cell. This makes the current independent of variables such as initial conductance, bubbles at the cathode, variations in the shape of the rods, etc. The problem with constant current ic's is they are limited to a maximum input voltage of about 37V. This means most conventional cs generators that use current limiting will be saturated at the beginning of the brew, and still act as constant voltage systems with all the problems described above. I have developed a solution that operates at much higher voltage and avoids the saturation problem. A description and test data is available at http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m61896.html These two solutions help remove some of the variables that cause non-repeatability in the cs process. There is still the problem of contamination, variations in the quality of the dw, and so on. In the eclipse experiment, they measured a change of 1900 ppb: The results shown in Figure 1 indicate that the amount of silver began to decrease nearing the eclipse, with a reduction to 1900 ppb during the eclipse. But they state the normal variation of the process is greater than that: Normal batches of colloidal silver produced in this way yield a count of about 6000 to 8000 ppb (parts per billion) of silver. You really can't make any conclusions on a single sample when the process variability is greater than the change you measured during the experiment! There are many other issues involved, but my conclusion is this experiment is not very well designed, and it really doesn't say much about the effect they are trying to prove. It is true the moon has an effect on biological systems. The increased illumination allows hunters to hunt better, crabs to find their mates, and so on. But consider the implications if their hypothesis were true. If the moon affected the electrolysis process, we would find significant effects throughout industry. Aluminum refining operations might have to shut down during part of the month. Battery powered watches might run slower. Your car might be harder to start. All these effects depend on electrolysis. If the moon had any influence on the electrolysis process, our whole lives would be different. Since none of these effects occur, I think it's safe to say the moon really has no effect on electrolysis, and any changes in the production of cs are due to variables that can be controlled. If you know how:) Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m62950.html Re: CSYellow tinted CS!! From: Mike Monett Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 23:09:56 I goofed. I said: In the eclipse experiment, they measured a change of 1900 ppb: The results shown in Figure 1 indicate that the amount of silver began to decrease nearing the eclipse, with a reduction to 1900 ppb during the eclipse. Sorry, I misread that paragraph. I understood it to mean a reduction *of* 1900 ppb, not a reduction *to* 1900 ppb. That is a very large drop, and I seriously doubt they meant what they said. If the moon had that much effect on electrolysis, everyone's lives would be affected during an eclipse. There would be warnings in the newspapers, on the internet, and on radio and TV. This simply does not happen. They did not check their statement carefully, which gives me even greater pause about their conclusion than before. Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
Just for grins and giggles, How about putting a drop of vineger in a newly made sample of CS, let it sit and see what happens. If nothing does, it doesn't necessarily mean that wasn't the problem but if something does happen, it's a pretty close 'fer sher'. Ken At 09:32 AM 9/30/2003 -0600, you wrote: Ken, and all, It is looking like I have found the problem, but I won't be 100% certain until I have run a few more batches.. It is seems very likely that the problem is indeed a contaminant, and that the contaminant(s) are the spray kitchen cleaners I use--1 spray bottle of peroxide and 1 of white vinegar. I use these many times per day to clean counters, stove top, sink, etc. and absolutely never gave it a thought.since stopping that I have now made 3 perfectly clear batches, one in the Silvergen and 2 in the Silverpuppy.. Both generators are *closed* very well in operation, so it never occurred to me that contamination could happen with my sprays...however, looking round the kitchen, I see that overspray could easily have also been getting onto the paper towels I use to wipe electrodes.and how long spray mist particles can stay suspended in air, I have no idea... If the problem really is this simple, I'm going to gag over all the time I've spent beating my head against the wall...But Trem says it could very well be the vinegar paula - Original Message - From: mailto:coyote...@earthlink.net>Ode Coyote When a thousand people use the same generator and 2 or 3 people make a CS that goes yellow over a period of time and not entirely consistantly at that...I think there may be some other factor at work. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
snip A second solution is to use a constant current to supply current to the cell. This makes the current independent of variables such as initial conductance, bubbles at the cathode, variations in the shape of the rods, etc. The problem with constant current ic's is they are limited to a maximum input voltage of about 37V. This means most conventional cs generators that use current limiting will be saturated at the beginning of the brew, and still act as constant voltage systems with all the problems described above. With current density as the 'key', 27 volts through good distilled water gives you a lower current density than the max when it becomes controlled. Lower current density is OK but does upset ion production rate curves until the current levels off and voltage begins to drop. This is also why it is impossible to accurately time the CS making process before current levels out when using a current controlled generator. A very slight difference in temperature or initial conductivity of the water throws all attempts out the window. With a non current controlled generator [constant voltage], it's never possible to accurately time the process as the current never levels off to a constant. Using a higher starting voltage just speeds things up at the start, that's all. except Somewhere around 50 volts? HVAC or HVDC effects may start to be noticed that I don't know anything about as I have always used the 36 volt limited IC chips and 40 volt transistors. Ode I have developed a solution that operates at much higher voltage and avoids the saturation problem. A description and test data is available at http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m61896.html These two solutions help remove some of the variables that cause non-repeatability in the cs process. There is still the problem of contamination, variations in the quality of the dw, and so on. In the eclipse experiment, they measured a change of 1900 ppb: The results shown in Figure 1 indicate that the amount of silver began to decrease nearing the eclipse, with a reduction to 1900 ppb during the eclipse. But they state the normal variation of the process is greater than that: Normal batches of colloidal silver produced in this way yield a count of about 6000 to 8000 ppb (parts per billion) of silver. You really can't make any conclusions on a single sample when the process variability is greater than the change you measured during the experiment! There are many other issues involved, but my conclusion is this experiment is not very well designed, and it really doesn't say much about the effect they are trying to prove. It is true the moon has an effect on biological systems. The increased illumination allows hunters to hunt better, crabs to find their mates, and so on. But consider the implications if their hypothesis were true. If the moon affected the electrolysis process, we would find significant effects throughout industry. Aluminum refining operations might have to shut down during part of the month. Battery powered watches might run slower. Your car might be harder to start. All these effects depend on electrolysis. If the moon had any influence on the electrolysis process, our whole lives would be different. Since none of these effects occur, I think it's safe to say the moon really has no effect on electrolysis, and any changes in the production of cs are due to variables that can be controlled. If you know how:) Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
Mike mentioned that he does not believe Solar Flares could affect CS either. Not sure how this supports the moon theory but Solar Flares can cause heavy ion storms on the Earth. Even Cardiac ICUs are starting to build Faraday Cages around their units to prevent the effects of Geomagnetic Ion Storms on their hear patients. If this were not a real and measurable effect I rather doubt that they would go to this expense. U of MI is reseraching this with Russian universities. While I am not sure of the lunar effect I have heard that is similar to the effect of a Geomagnetic Storm. BTW we have been in an unprecedented three year solar peak. Check out www.spaceweather.com for daily reports on the state of our magnetic field and geomagnetic storms. Some mornings you can actually see the air scintillate and we have been seeing the Aurora in central Texas quite frequently during the past three years. The solar cycle is running very high and the storms are hitting record peaks in intensity. www.syzygyjob.com has some intersting information and forums. It is hard to find info on the ion effects that is verifiable. But the simple reports on from Space Weather tell you when to look for possible effects. It can take a day or so for a solar flare to have its effect. BTW it drives the Jet Stream. You can subscribe to a daily email list that will tell you all the parameters and warn you of developing sun spots. Some say this cycle is a 3,000 to 300,000 year peak. A triple peak solar cycle has never been recorded previously. We can only look at geological data for indicators beyond what humans have recorded. The effects of the moon on human behavior are well documented. Not sure about the effects on CS but there have been many effects on physical function, particularly as related to nerve transmission, from the ion storms caused by solar flares. If it can do that to a large person with so many insulators and such I do think it is not outside of the realm of reason to investigate the effects on CS or of the moon cycle on CS. Should be pretty easy to set up a test situation since we know when the moon is cycling. If it is not repeatable it is not good science. Still does not mean there is not an effect. Science is not perfect and can not measure some effects accurately, yet. Garnet On Thu, 2003-10-02 at 20:29, Jonathan B. Britten wrote: As for lunar influence, the work of a Dr. H. S. Burr at Yale, though not widely studied, shows a variety of fascinating and subtle effects of various cycles on biological activity.I will not go and on and with this. I did discover something interesting: moon cycles may be connected to global warming. I had never thought of that! See http://www.cei.org/gencon/014,02819.cfm d -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
Jonathan, Just thought you might like to know that as I was having trouble with my CS turning yellow more often than not (for the entire past year--the whole time I've been making my own) I looked hard at the moon cycle to see if there was any effect and could not find anyhere. Wonder what the difference is? paula - Original Message - From: Jonathan B. Britten As for Mike's rather sarcastic remarks below, I will say only that there is much to be learned, and that closemindedness precludes learning.A simple point: it could be that his set-up is so well regulated that it eliminates the lunar influence which I and others have observed. This is an obvious and certainly a possibility. I see no cause for such remarks as he makes. As for lunar influence, the work of a Dr. H. S. Burr at Yale, though not widely studied, shows a variety of fascinating and subtle effects of various cycles on biological activity.I will not go and on and with this. I did discover something interesting: moon cycles may be connected to global warming. I had never thought of that! See http://www.cei.org/gencon/014,02819.cfm JBB On Thursday, Oct 2, 2003, at 16:46 Asia/Tokyo, Jason Eaton wrote: Mike: Why don't you, however, share the lab results that were obtained from the study of your production process? And contrast that to the readings you swore you would get? Yes, I am aware of the lab results obtained from your product specifications; what I'm surprised at is your instance that theory outways analytical study -- still. It is quite baffling, but I do enjoy your explorations, ideas, and reports immensely. Best Regards, Jason - Original Message - From: Mike Monett 31dtzj...@sneakemail.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 12:05 AM Subject: Re: CSYellow tinted CS!! url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m62910.html Re: CSYellow tinted CS!! From: Harvey Norris Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 23:01:03 The moon is too far away to influence any of the parameters that affect the cs process. When you get unrepeatable results, you need to control these parameters better. Best Regards, Mike Monett You're up against the consensus here, Thomas the Doubter... scientifically schooled and scientifically fooled. HDN, I need no futher comments here just to make my snyde comments Hyde... Yes, Harvey, I guess you got me pegged. I don't believe in magic or witchcraft. I don't believe in free energy, over-unity, or Tom Bearden's scalar waves. I don't believe in a lot of things that scams are made from. And I don't believe solar flares or the phase of the moon can affect the production of cs. I believe in controlling contamination, current density at the electrodes, quality of the dw, and using precision constant current sources, Faraday's equations, and good instrumentation. And my cs is not affected by the phase of the moon. So the next time you make cs during a full moon, take your frog, circle the cs generator three times in a counterclockwise direction to set up the proper vortex, then three times in a clockwise direction, all the while chanting your favorite mantra. Then eat the frog. Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.515 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 09/02/2003
Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m62960.html Re: CSYellow tinted CS!! From: Garnet Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 07:18:29 Hi Garnet, Thanks for your post. I hope this will help explain the effects of solar flares so you have a bit less to worry about the next time the sun goes haywire:) Mike mentioned that he does not believe Solar Flares could affect CS either. Not sure how this supports the moon theory but Solar Flares can cause heavy ion storms on the Earth. Even Cardiac ICUs are starting to build Faraday Cages around their units to prevent the effects of Geomagnetic Ion Storms on their hear patients. If this were not a real and measurable effect I rather doubt that they would go to this expense. U of MI is reseraching this with Russian universities. A solar storm affects the earth's magnetic field and can induce voltages of 2 to 10 volts per mile in the earth. This affects long conductors such as pipelines, undersea cables, and power transformers connected to large grids. The induced currents can be strong enough to saturate the transformer and cause damage due to overheating. For more information on these effects, see Solar Activity May Cause Problems for Utilities http://www.hsb.com/thelocomotive/Story/FullStory/ST-FS-SOLAR.html A Faraday Cage shields against electromagnetic radiation, such as radio, TV, cellular phones, etc. It has no effect on magnetic fields, and cannot provide an effective shield against the induced currents caused by solar flares. So they may be adding extra shielding to ICU's, but for a different reason. While I am not sure of the lunar effect I have heard that is similar to the effect of a Geomagnetic Storm. They are not similar in any way. The moon's orbit is normally well outside the earth's magnetic field. Not sure about the effects on CS but there have been many effects on physical function, particularly as related to nerve transmission, from the ion storms caused by solar flares. If it can do that to a large person with so many insulators and such I do think it is not outside of the realm of reason to investigate the effects on CS or of the moon cycle on CS. As mentioned above, the magnetic field from a solar storm can induce voltages of 2 to 10 volts per mile in long conductors. A person is approximately 1/1000 of a mile, so they may experience an induced voltage of 2 to 10 millivolts from head to toe if they were laying down and oriented in the proper direction. I'm not sure this would cause any observable effects. We experience flutuations in the earth's magnetic field all the time, and I think the vast majority of the population never notices. As far as any effect on cs production, the leads from the power supply to the cell are usually quite short - perhaps several inches or a foot. This may induce very small voltages in the leads - on the order of microvolts or less. However, the same voltage is induced in both leads. So the net difference across the cell is very close to zero. This effect is called common-mode rejection in electronics. We use twisted pair cables in many applications to take advantage of it. Should be pretty easy to set up a test situation since we know when the moon is cycling. If it is not repeatable it is not good science. Still does not mean there is not an effect. Science is not perfect and can not measure some effects accurately, yet. This experiment already exists. CS uses electrolysis. Batteries use electrolysis. If the moon had any effect on electrolysis, we would observe these effects every month. Garnet Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
Ken, I put a drop of vinegar in a previously made yellow batch of CS (about 10 oz), nothing happened, so I added a whole dropper full. It turned a very pretty shade of peach, now, several hours later, it is very nearly clear, with just the faintest hint of pink color, almost undetectable Ok now to perform your suggested test, I'll report on that later. paula - Original Message - From: Ode Coyote To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 4:04 AM Subject: Re: CSYellow tinted CS!! Just for grins and giggles, How about putting a drop of vineger in a newly made sample of CS, let it sit and see what happens. If nothing does, it doesn't necessarily mean that wasn't the problem but if something does happen, it's a pretty close 'fer sher'.
Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
Hi Mike, why do you assume the only effects of ion storms are exclusively magnetic? If a magnetic field varies it produces an electrical field, if it varies rapidly, the resultant electromagnetic field will propagate. The effects of both lunar periodic and solar storm variations on human and animal behavior are well documented; see R. O. Becker, Cross Currents (sorry, can't give you the page numbers right now) for a study and additional references. The effects of terrestrial deformation such as those caused by lunar land tides on the generation of electromagnetic anomalies are a commonplace in geological work. Solar as well as other ionic disturbances are recorded from electrically (static) sensitive devices as well as magnetic (inductive) ones, all due respect to railroad engineers. Take care, Malcolm At 02:07 PM 10/3/03 -0400, you wrote: url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m62960.html Re: CSYellow tinted CS!! From: Garnet Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 07:18:29 Hi Garnet, Thanks for your post. I hope this will help explain the effects of solar flares so you have a bit less to worry about the next time the sun goes haywire:) Mike mentioned that he does not believe Solar Flares could affect CS either. Not sure how this supports the moon theory but Solar Flares can cause heavy ion storms on the Earth. Even Cardiac ICUs are starting to build Faraday Cages around their units to prevent the effects of Geomagnetic Ion Storms on their hear patients. If this were not a real and measurable effect I rather doubt that they would go to this expense. U of MI is reseraching this with Russian universities. A solar storm affects the earth's magnetic field and can induce voltages of 2 to 10 volts per mile in the earth. This affects long conductors such as pipelines, undersea cables, and power transformers connected to large grids. The induced currents can be strong enough to saturate the transformer and cause damage due to overheating. For more information on these effects, see Solar Activity May Cause Problems for Utilities http://www.hsb.com/thelocomotive/Story/FullStory/ST-FS-SOLAR.html A Faraday Cage shields against electromagnetic radiation, such as radio, TV, cellular phones, etc. It has no effect on magnetic fields, and cannot provide an effective shield against the induced currents caused by solar flares. So they may be adding extra shielding to ICU's, but for a different reason. While I am not sure of the lunar effect I have heard that is similar to the effect of a Geomagnetic Storm. They are not similar in any way. The moon's orbit is normally well outside the earth's magnetic field. Not sure about the effects on CS but there have been many effects on physical function, particularly as related to nerve transmission, from the ion storms caused by solar flares. If it can do that to a large person with so many insulators and such I do think it is not outside of the realm of reason to investigate the effects on CS or of the moon cycle on CS. As mentioned above, the magnetic field from a solar storm can induce voltages of 2 to 10 volts per mile in long conductors. A person is approximately 1/1000 of a mile, so they may experience an induced voltage of 2 to 10 millivolts from head to toe if they were laying down and oriented in the proper direction. I'm not sure this would cause any observable effects. We experience flutuations in the earth's magnetic field all the time, and I think the vast majority of the population never notices. As far as any effect on cs production, the leads from the power supply to the cell are usually quite short - perhaps several inches or a foot. This may induce very small voltages in the leads - on the order of microvolts or less. However, the same voltage is induced in both leads. So the net difference across the cell is very close to zero. This effect is called common-mode rejection in electronics. We use twisted pair cables in many applications to take advantage of it. Should be pretty easy to set up a test situation since we know when the moon is cycling. If it is not repeatable it is not good science. Still does not mean there is not an effect. Science is not perfect and can not measure some effects accurately, yet. This experiment already exists. CS uses electrolysis. Batteries use electrolysis. If the moon had any effect on electrolysis, we would observe these effects every month. Garnet Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist
Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m62907.html Re: CSYellow tinted CS!! From: Al Davis Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 21:58:23 Mike, I may have a partial answer to your problem, but we use very different set-ups for making our brew. I use a silvergen SG-6 with different electrodes than standard. I made some copper electrodes using electrical copper wire (very pure-about .9995) just for a lark. I experienced a very strange phenomenon. The SG-6 is current controlled to about 1 mA and has automatic shutoff at about 6.5 volts at full setting. At least it does with silver electrodes. Here's where we get into the twilight zone! With the copper electrodes everything proceeds as usual until I get to about 5 micro-seimens on the PWT. The CC is colorless and has no Tyndall effect. This occurs at about 17 volts. From there on the current remains constant AND the voltage remains constant! The brew begins to take on a distinct copper color and has a very strong tyndall effect! Apparently, the setup makes ionic copper to a certain voltage and then suddenly shifts into making only colloidal metal particles! (It did not prove to be stable). I don't know what happens with a constant voltage low current density method such as you use, but perhaps this will offer a clue, since it seems copper and silver behave very differently. Hope this helps. Al Davis Hi Al, Thank you for the post! Yes, after carefully cleaning everything again, it started behaving rationally. A bit different from your description, but I did get results similar to yours on previous runs. It seems the copper behaves the same as silver, but at lower ppm. This time, nothing happened for a long time, then tiny black whiskers started growing from the bottom edge of the cathode. These started looking like tiny trees with many branches. Eventually they grew all the way to the anode, and other trees started growing from the side of the cathode towards the anode. I don't know what the estimated ppm was, since I increased the current several times during the run. It was 327 uA/sq.in. when the trees started growing. The branches seem to be conductive. Sometimes a long piece broke off and jerks sideways several times. It often went back and reattached to the main branches. So they might be made of copper atoms that have gained electrons at the cathode. I waited until the bottom one looked thick and solid, then shook the electrodes to break it. The voltage across the cell instantly jumped quite a bit. So I think the branches may be pure copper. According to my research, the copper ion is doubly ionized (missing two electrons.) I wonder if this changes the converson factor between uS and ppm? Probably, it should. Could you do me a favor? Next time you do a run, can you measure the current, brew time, and the ppm when the cell voltage plateaus? Does the current regulator saturate at the start of the run? If so, could you use more copper wire for the anode and cathode? Or measure the current vs time readings until the regulator comes out of saturation? We should be able to estimate how many copper ions are liberated and get an idea what the conversion factor might be. Some ions may plate out on the cathode, and some will be lost forming oxides. But we should be able to determine if the factor is unity as for silver. Just for the record, here are the unit conversions for Mercury: Cou = I * sec ; total number of Coulombs esec = I / 1.60217733e-19; electrons per second gm = k * I * sec ; Faraday's equation isin = esec / sqin ; ions per sq. in. per sec isnm = isin / 6.45e14 ; ions per square nanometer per sec k= 0.5* 63.5 / 96485 ; Coulombs required per gram of copper lt = 3.785 * gal ; convert gallons to litres lt = ml / 1000 ; convert millilitres to litres mg = gm * 1000 ; convert grams to milligrams ml = 29.57 * oz ; convert ounce to milliliters phr = ppm / hrs ; ppm per hour ppm = mg / lt ; 1 ppm is 1 milligram per litre sec = hrs * 3600 + mnt * 60 ; convert hours to seconds uAin = 1e6 * I / sqin ; current density in uA per sq in Note the change to the Coulomb calculation: k = 0.5* 63.5 / 96485 ; Coulombs required per gram of copper With your help, we might add yet another small bit to the vast store of knowledge in the silver archives:) Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m62910.html Re: CSYellow tinted CS!! From: Harvey Norris Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 23:01:03 The moon is too far away to influence any of the parameters that affect the cs process. When you get unrepeatable results, you need to control these parameters better. Best Regards, Mike Monett You're up against the consensus here, Thomas the Doubter... scientifically schooled and scientifically fooled. HDN, I need no futher comments here just to make my snyde comments Hyde... Yes, Harvey, I guess you got me pegged. I don't believe in magic or witchcraft. I don't believe in free energy, over-unity, or Tom Bearden's scalar waves. I don't believe in a lot of things that scams are made from. And I don't believe solar flares or the phase of the moon can affect the production of cs. I believe in controlling contamination, current density at the electrodes, quality of the dw, and using precision constant current sources, Faraday's equations, and good instrumentation. And my cs is not affected by the phase of the moon. So the next time you make cs during a full moon, take your frog, circle the cs generator three times in a counterclockwise direction to set up the proper vortex, then three times in a clockwise direction, all the while chanting your favorite mantra. Then eat the frog. Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
Mike: Why don't you, however, share the lab results that were obtained from the study of your production process? And contrast that to the readings you swore you would get? Yes, I am aware of the lab results obtained from your product specifications; what I'm surprised at is your instance that theory outways analytical study -- still. It is quite baffling, but I do enjoy your explorations, ideas, and reports immensely. Best Regards, Jason - Original Message - From: Mike Monett 31dtzj...@sneakemail.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 12:05 AM Subject: Re: CSYellow tinted CS!! url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m62910.html Re: CSYellow tinted CS!! From: Harvey Norris Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 23:01:03 The moon is too far away to influence any of the parameters that affect the cs process. When you get unrepeatable results, you need to control these parameters better. Best Regards, Mike Monett You're up against the consensus here, Thomas the Doubter... scientifically schooled and scientifically fooled. HDN, I need no futher comments here just to make my snyde comments Hyde... Yes, Harvey, I guess you got me pegged. I don't believe in magic or witchcraft. I don't believe in free energy, over-unity, or Tom Bearden's scalar waves. I don't believe in a lot of things that scams are made from. And I don't believe solar flares or the phase of the moon can affect the production of cs. I believe in controlling contamination, current density at the electrodes, quality of the dw, and using precision constant current sources, Faraday's equations, and good instrumentation. And my cs is not affected by the phase of the moon. So the next time you make cs during a full moon, take your frog, circle the cs generator three times in a counterclockwise direction to set up the proper vortex, then three times in a clockwise direction, all the while chanting your favorite mantra. Then eat the frog. Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.515 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 09/02/2003
Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m62914.html Re: CSYellow tinted CS!! From: Jason Eaton Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 01:36:44 Jason, I replied early this morning to your post. I don't know why it's taking so long to appear in the archives, but I'll wait a while longer before reposting. Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
As for Mike's rather sarcastic remarks below, I will say only that there is much to be learned, and that closemindedness precludes learning.A simple point: it could be that his set-up is so well regulated that it eliminates the lunar influence which I and others have observed. This is an obvious and certainly a possibility. I see no cause for such remarks as he makes. As for lunar influence, the work of a Dr. H. S. Burr at Yale, though not widely studied, shows a variety of fascinating and subtle effects of various cycles on biological activity.I will not go and on and with this. I did discover something interesting: moon cycles may be connected to global warming. I had never thought of that! See http://www.cei.org/gencon/014,02819.cfm JBB On Thursday, Oct 2, 2003, at 16:46 Asia/Tokyo, Jason Eaton wrote: Mike: Why don't you, however, share the lab results that were obtained from the study of your production process? And contrast that to the readings you swore you would get? Yes, I am aware of the lab results obtained from your product specifications; what I'm surprised at is your instance that theory outways analytical study -- still. It is quite baffling, but I do enjoy your explorations, ideas, and reports immensely. Best Regards, Jason - Original Message - From: Mike Monett 31dtzj...@sneakemail.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 12:05 AM Subject: Re: CSYellow tinted CS!! url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m62910.html Re: CSYellow tinted CS!! From: Harvey Norris Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 23:01:03 The moon is too far away to influence any of the parameters that affect the cs process. When you get unrepeatable results, you need to control these parameters better. Best Regards, Mike Monett You're up against the consensus here, Thomas the Doubter... scientifically schooled and scientifically fooled. HDN, I need no futher comments here just to make my snyde comments Hyde... Yes, Harvey, I guess you got me pegged. I don't believe in magic or witchcraft. I don't believe in free energy, over-unity, or Tom Bearden's scalar waves. I don't believe in a lot of things that scams are made from. And I don't believe solar flares or the phase of the moon can affect the production of cs. I believe in controlling contamination, current density at the electrodes, quality of the dw, and using precision constant current sources, Faraday's equations, and good instrumentation. And my cs is not affected by the phase of the moon. So the next time you make cs during a full moon, take your frog, circle the cs generator three times in a counterclockwise direction to set up the proper vortex, then three times in a clockwise direction, all the while chanting your favorite mantra. Then eat the frog. Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.515 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 09/02/2003
Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
See also: http://educate-yourself.org/cs/csmooneffects17aug0.shtml On Friday, Oct 3, 2003, at 10:29 Asia/Tokyo, Jonathan B. Britten wrote: As for Mike's rather sarcastic remarks below, I will say only that there is much to be learned, and that closemindedness precludes learning.A simple point: it could be that his set-up is so well regulated that it eliminates the lunar influence which I and others have observed. This is an obvious and certainly a possibility. I see no cause for such remarks as he makes. As for lunar influence, the work of a Dr. H. S. Burr at Yale, though not widely studied, shows a variety of fascinating and subtle effects of various cycles on biological activity.I will not go and on and with this. I did discover something interesting: moon cycles may be connected to global warming. I had never thought of that! See http://www.cei.org/gencon/014,02819.cfm JBB On Thursday, Oct 2, 2003, at 16:46 Asia/Tokyo, Jason Eaton wrote: Mike: Why don't you, however, share the lab results that were obtained from the study of your production process? And contrast that to the readings you swore you would get? Yes, I am aware of the lab results obtained from your product specifications; what I'm surprised at is your instance that theory outways analytical study -- still. It is quite baffling, but I do enjoy your explorations, ideas, and reports immensely. Best Regards, Jason - Original Message - From: Mike Monett 31dtzj...@sneakemail.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 12:05 AM Subject: Re: CSYellow tinted CS!! url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m62910.html Re: CSYellow tinted CS!! From: Harvey Norris Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 23:01:03 The moon is too far away to influence any of the parameters that affect the cs process. When you get unrepeatable results, you need to control these parameters better. Best Regards, Mike Monett You're up against the consensus here, Thomas the Doubter... scientifically schooled and scientifically fooled. HDN, I need no futher comments here just to make my snyde comments Hyde... Yes, Harvey, I guess you got me pegged. I don't believe in magic or witchcraft. I don't believe in free energy, over-unity, or Tom Bearden's scalar waves. I don't believe in a lot of things that scams are made from. And I don't believe solar flares or the phase of the moon can affect the production of cs. I believe in controlling contamination, current density at the electrodes, quality of the dw, and using precision constant current sources, Faraday's equations, and good instrumentation. And my cs is not affected by the phase of the moon. So the next time you make cs during a full moon, take your frog, circle the cs generator three times in a counterclockwise direction to set up the proper vortex, then three times in a clockwise direction, all the while chanting your favorite mantra. Then eat the frog. Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.515 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 09/02/2003
Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m62861.html Re: CSYellow tinted CS!! From: sol Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:35:42 Ken, and all, It is looking like I have found the problem, but I won't be 100% certain until I have run a few more batches. It is seems very likely that the problem is indeed a contaminant, and that the contaminant(s) are the spray kitchen cleaners I use - 1 spray bottle of peroxide and 1 of white vinegar. I use these many times per day to clean counters, stove top, sink, etc. and absolutely never gave it a thought. Since stopping that I have now made 3 perfectly clear batches, one in the Silvergen and 2 in the Silverpuppy. Both generators are *closed* very well in operation, so it never occurred to me that contamination could happen with my sprays. However, looking round the kitchen, I see that overspray could easily have also been getting onto the paper towels I use to wipe electrodes. And how long spray mist particles can stay suspended in air, I have no idea. If the problem really is this simple, I'm going to gag over all the time I've spent beating my head against the wall. But Trem says it could very well be the vinegar. paula - Original Message - From: Ode Coyote When a thousand people use the same generator and 2 or 3 people make a CS that goes yellow over a period of time and not entirely consistantly at that...I think there may be some other factor at work. Paula, Ken, Paula's experience might be a good lesson for us all. Contamination might help explain why some people have unexplainable problems getting repeatable results with their cs. I got very ill several years ago drinking contaminated cs. Since then, I am religious about not allowing anything to touch the electrodes, keeping them in the air while transferring the cs to another container, and keeping the generator tightly closed at all times. Since then, along with a reliable source of dw and a precision constant current source, I have no problems making highly repeatable cs. I am experimenting with colloidal copper to kill the mold spores that constantly plague me. I'm starting to achieve some positive results, but I'm finding colloidal copper is much harder to make than ordinary cs, and much more sensitive to contamination. It is difficult to get above about 3 ppm (calculated), and very difficult to get repeatable results from one batch to the next. The results are not only non-repeatable, they are not even similar. I took a hint from your experience, and soaked the glassware and electrodes in fresh isopropyl alcohol, then wiped everything dry with plain unbleached toilet tissue. I'm starting another batch and will see if this helps. Thanks for your posts! Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
Mike, I may have a partial answer to your problem, but we use very different set-ups for making our brew. I use a silvergen SG-6 with different electrodes than standard. I made some copper electrodes using electrical copper wire (very pure-about .9995) just for a lark. I experienced a very strange phenomenon. The SG-6 is current controlled to about 1 mA and has automatic shutoff at about 6.5 volts at full setting. At least it does with silver electrodes. Here's where we get into the twilight zone! With the copper electrodes everything proceeds as usual until I get to about 5 micro-seimens on the PWT. The CC is colorless and has no Tyndall effect. This occurs at about 17 volts.. From there on the current remains constant AND the voltage remains constant! The brew begins to take on a distinct copper color and has a very strong tyndall effect! Apparently, the setup makes ionic copper to a certain voltage and then suddenly shifts into making only colloidal metal particles! (It did not prove to be stable). I don't know what happens with a constant voltage low current density method such as you use, but perhaps this will offer a clue, since it seems copper and silver behave very differently. Hope this helps. Al Davis - Original Message - From: Mike Monett 31dtzj...@sneakemail.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 6:05 PM Subject: Re: CSYellow tinted CS!! I am experimenting with colloidal copper to kill the mold spores that constantly plague me. I'm starting to achieve some positive results, but I'm finding colloidal copper is much harder to make than ordinary cs, and much more sensitive to contamination. It is difficult to get above about 3 ppm (calculated), and very difficult to get repeatable results from one batch to the next. The results are not only non-repeatable, they are not even similar. I took a hint from your experience, and soaked the glassware and electrodes in fresh isopropyl alcohol, then wiped everything dry with plain unbleached toilet tissue. I'm starting another batch and will see if this helps. Thanks for your posts! Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
The moon is too far away to influence any of the parameters that affect the cs process. When you get unrepeatable results, you need to control these parameters better. Best Regards, Mike Monett You're up against the consensus here, Thomas the Doubter... scientifically schooled and scientifically fooled. HDN, I need no futher comments here just to make my snyde comments Hyde... -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m62854.html Re: CSYellow tinted CS!! From: Jonathan B. Britten Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 22:36:43 I have observed the lunar influence on CS color on several occasions. I hypothesize that the increased particle size producing the higher TE and the yellowish color is a gravitational influence, but that is merely conjectural. All the same, my hunch is that some research would probably reveal a number of manufacturing processes that take moon phase into account. If anyone can educate me on this topic, I am willing to learn. JBB If you take two process that have a high probability of occurrence, you will inevitably find a correlation between them, even though they have no connection. I use a high-compliance current source (ascii circuit recently posted), and Faraday's equations to time my cs. I find the yellow tint starts occurring over a very small range of ppm. In other words, the process saturates quickly, and is extremely sensitive to the ion concentration at the end of the brew time. Just one or two ppm difference is all it takes to make a brew that is clear, or one that shows color. Most people run with constant voltage and have no current limiting. This means the brew can easily reach the current level needed to produce silver oxide, which produces the tint. The process is out of control, but the moon has no influence on the outcome. People who do use current limiting generally run at high current density. This means the regulator is saturated for a large portion of the brew time. The production of oxide then depends on the diffusion of silver and hydroxyl ions through the solution, which depends on the AC line voltage at the time, the temperature of the dw, any convection currents, and probably a dozen other variables. Again, the process is out of control, and the moon has no influence on these factors. The moon is too far away to influence any of the parameters that affect the cs process. When you get unrepeatable results, you need to control these parameters better. Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
When a thousand people use the same generator and 2 or 3 people make a CS that goes yellow over a period of time and not entirely consistantly at that...I think there may be some other factor at work. Perhaps hydrogen sulphides in the water and/or air? Acid rain? Something that is acting as a catylist? ..something that's not common? Limiting some factor further, like modifying the generator to make a weaker product a little slower, may solve the immediate problem but not reveal the cause. BTW Mike, You are the only one to attribute color to oxides. I tend to agree that there is some factor involving oxides, or a semi oxide of silver that contributes to the formation of larger particles which display the color due to their size. ...something akin to an oxygen atom presenting an attractive surface for silver ions to crystalize around which unstable H2O2 can scavenge in it's desire to attract another oxygen atom to make an O2 molecule and water, thus break the crystal apart. That's not to say that the oxide itself is presenting the color. It could be that the structure of the crystal presents the color and it takes a certain minimal number of silver atoms to make that configuration. PS I took High School chemistry [a LONG time ago]...and that's about it. I also took trade school metallurgy..for what that's worth. [not much more than a clue] ..and spent a few young [late teen] years as an electroplater, both chemical and electrical deposition. [copper, gold and zinc mostly] I'm not about to second guess an engineer or chemist, but sometimes the highly educated will miss the obvious that I cannot quantify. I know some of both and have been known, in my practical ignorance of detail..and convention, to present other pathways of investigation when they got stumped. Ode At 03:19 AM 9/30/2003 -0400, you wrote: url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m62854.html Re: CSYellow tinted CS!! From: Jonathan B. Britten Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 22:36:43 I have observed the lunar influence on CS color on several occasions. I hypothesize that the increased particle size producing the higher TE and the yellowish color is a gravitational influence, but that is merely conjectural. All the same, my hunch is that some research would probably reveal a number of manufacturing processes that take moon phase into account. If anyone can educate me on this topic, I am willing to learn. JBB If you take two process that have a high probability of occurrence, you will inevitably find a correlation between them, even though they have no connection. I use a high-compliance current source (ascii circuit recently posted), and Faraday's equations to time my cs. I find the yellow tint starts occurring over a very small range of ppm. In other words, the process saturates quickly, and is extremely sensitive to the ion concentration at the end of the brew time. Just one or two ppm difference is all it takes to make a brew that is clear, or one that shows color. Most people run with constant voltage and have no current limiting. This means the brew can easily reach the current level needed to produce silver oxide, which produces the tint. The process is out of control, but the moon has no influence on the outcome. People who do use current limiting generally run at high current density. This means the regulator is saturated for a large portion of the brew time. The production of oxide then depends on the diffusion of silver and hydroxyl ions through the solution, which depends on the AC line voltage at the time, the temperature of the dw, any convection currents, and probably a dozen other variables. Again, the process is out of control, and the moon has no influence on these factors. The moon is too far away to influence any of the parameters that affect the cs process. When you get unrepeatable results, you need to control these parameters better. Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
Ken, and all, It is looking like I have found the problem, but I won't be 100% certain until I have run a few more batches.. It is seems very likely that the problem is indeed a contaminant, and that the contaminant(s) are the spray kitchen cleaners I use--1 spray bottle of peroxide and 1 of white vinegar. I use these many times per day to clean counters, stove top, sink, etc. and absolutely never gave it a thought.since stopping that I have now made 3 perfectly clear batches, one in the Silvergen and 2 in the Silverpuppy.. Both generators are *closed* very well in operation, so it never occurred to me that contamination could happen with my sprays...however, looking round the kitchen, I see that overspray could easily have also been getting onto the paper towels I use to wipe electrodes.and how long spray mist particles can stay suspended in air, I have no idea... If the problem really is this simple, I'm going to gag over all the time I've spent beating my head against the wall...But Trem says it could very well be the vinegar paula - Original Message - From: Ode Coyote When a thousand people use the same generator and 2 or 3 people make a CS that goes yellow over a period of time and not entirely consistantly at that...I think there may be some other factor at work.
Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
Hi, Mike, Interesting comments. Thanks. However, I use current limiting, and though I would not swear to that my observations are correct, I believe they are.Certainly the moon has a strong influence on all sorts of geologic and biological processes, from tidal flow to menstrual flow to patterns of crime and manifestations of mental illness, so I do not find it hard to believe that there is some lunar influence on the water or the electrodes in my SG6. Perhaps even a small change in Brownian motion could account for the phenomenon I believe I have observed.I admit though that my record-keeping is very casual.If I get myself a little lunar log going I will post the results in future.As for all the possible variables, of course no one can control them all. I can only say that I have gotten yellow CS only during the full moon phase using my SG6. Other variables could be the cause, though. Thanks again. On Tuesday, Sep 30, 2003, at 16:19 Asia/Tokyo, Mike Monett wrote: url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m62854.html Re: CSYellow tinted CS!! From: Jonathan B. Britten Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 22:36:43 I have observed the lunar influence on CS color on several occasions. I hypothesize that the increased particle size producing the higher TE and the yellowish color is a gravitational influence, but that is merely conjectural. All the same, my hunch is that some research would probably reveal a number of manufacturing processes that take moon phase into account. If anyone can educate me on this topic, I am willing to learn. JBB If you take two process that have a high probability of occurrence, you will inevitably find a correlation between them, even though they have no connection. I use a high-compliance current source (ascii circuit recently posted), and Faraday's equations to time my cs. I find the yellow tint starts occurring over a very small range of ppm. In other words, the process saturates quickly, and is extremely sensitive to the ion concentration at the end of the brew time. Just one or two ppm difference is all it takes to make a brew that is clear, or one that shows color. Most people run with constant voltage and have no current limiting. This means the brew can easily reach the current level needed to produce silver oxide, which produces the tint. The process is out of control, but the moon has no influence on the outcome. People who do use current limiting generally run at high current density. This means the regulator is saturated for a large portion of the brew time. The production of oxide then depends on the diffusion of silver and hydroxyl ions through the solution, which depends on the AC line voltage at the time, the temperature of the dw, any convection currents, and probably a dozen other variables. Again, the process is out of control, and the moon has no influence on these factors. The moon is too far away to influence any of the parameters that affect the cs process. When you get unrepeatable results, you need to control these parameters better. Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
Heck. I've heard that even the moon phase can affect outcome. How about it Larry T. in Florida... Are you still having a similar problem? [He's the only other person I know of. He actually made a batch of yellow at MY house with his water a while back. Unfortunately we didn't try one with my water and his generator...time constraints or something.] A number of volitile chemicals will make it through a distiller. Have you tried discarding the first cup or so? Ode [Ken] At 09:41 AM 9/28/2003 -0600, you wrote: Well, I'm still getting CS that is either clear or very slight straw color at shut off, but gains color steadily after that, no matter if left if the brew jar or decanted into a clean storage bottle. I'm finding that if there is any color to it at all it continues to get more and more color in storage, while if it is perfectly clear at about 72 hours it will stay clear in storage. My DW measures .3 to .8 uS with my PWT (and I have checked the calibration of the meter--it appears to be spot on), I have cleaned my brew jar(s) by every method I've ever read on this list, rinsed them umpteen times iwth distilled water, replaced brew jars, and on and on. Kept detailed records till I'm sick of it, and I still get yellow CS..Every once in a while I get a clear batch--maybe one batch in 12 or even 20.I'm beginning to think I should turn this upside down and try to find out why it ever comes out clear..stopping the process earlier does not seem to make much if any difference, I've got CS of quite low ppm that is yellow, and one batch of 16.9 uS that stayed clear. This has been driving me nuts since I started making CS. I have 3 different generators now, and get yellow CS with all of them, with the very, very rare clear batch.. If there is contaminant in my DW that doesn't show in uS on the PWT, I don't know what it is or what it could be.I am thinking its environmental maybe even unique to my housebut I can't figure out what, I'm now noting the time of day when I start a batch and charting that to see if that is a factor.and I'm checking out my cleaning products (I use vinegar and peroxide to clean kitchen counters etc---) and will now use only CS spray to see if that might be the cause. Should say, I am now home-distilling my own DW, as I thought that ozone in commercial DW might be the problem.it wasn't. paula southwest wyoming - Original Message - From: mailto:coyote...@earthlink.net>Ode Coyote I've repeatedly used Food Lion water at 4.5 uS and gotten clear CS with the silverpuppy gen, so, it's not necessarily the higher initial conductivity that kicks a batch into going yellow but what the higher conductivity is caused by. [ie, not so much the contamination itself, but what the contaminant is] Of course, water without any contaminants won't contain one that will kick the batch. Ode At 08:45 PM 9/26/2003 -0400, you wrote: >I use a SilverPuppy and make a gallon at a time in a glass jar. Use >nite-lite heater, and it works good on the gallon size. I normally make >perfectly clear CS with no detectable tyndall. PWT 9-12. I made two >identical batches. One with Crystal Springs Distilled water PWT .05 ,and the >other with Winn-Dixie brand dw PWT 1.5. The .05 was clear and the dw with >the PWT 1.5 turned out straw color (light yellow) That was the only >difference. Now I know why mine is yellow anyway. > > >- Original Message - >From: Douglas Haack mailto:gvagraph...@adelphia.net>gvagraph...@adelphia.net> >To: mailto:silver-list@eskimo.com>silver-list@eskimo.com> >Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 3:36 PM >Subject: CS>Yellow tinted CS!! > > >> Silver Listers, >> >> We have discussed the yellow tint many times on the list. I now believe >> after some amateur research into Silver Colloid texts the yellowing is due >> to >> silver lumps, anions, ions whatever the preferred term/s is -- is due to >> sliver >> sintered off during the brewing electrolosis -- being larger or above 30 >> Angstroms >> and this gives the yellow tint. >> >> Forgive me if I'm off the mark and do correct me! >> >> In my own brewing I'm always pleased when my CS remains clear. Although >> along the way I've made my share of the 'yellow stuff and consumed it >> anyway! >> Haven't game been enough to use H2O2 in my CS. Something to try sometime. >> Am familiar with H2O2's other great Oxygen therapy uses. >> >> I remain yours in SILvation, Douglas Haack >> >> >> >> Mike Monett wrote: >> >> > url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m62773.html>http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m62773.html >> > CS>Half gallon brew >> > From: Dan Nave >> > Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:02:15 >> > >> > Hi Dan, >> > >> > I guess you are using fairly low current density, otherwise you >> > wouldn't see the gray sludge. You would be getting black silver >> > oxide instead. >> > >> > The gray sludge is formed at the cathode where
Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
--- Ode Coyote coyote...@earthlink.net wrote: Heck. I've heard that even the moon phase can affect outcome. People think you are crazy when this is mentioned. But I have also noticed that when a batch is made during a full moon at night, the conductivity appears slightly higher at start of batch, then the same water processed under normal conditions. Thanx for noting that clear CS is possible, as my last two batches came out this way. I also noted in the past that most of my CS was also turning straw color after 4 days or so. Dont know what the parameter here is, except to note that I use distillata which is the best DW I have come across, and I make the batches by variac regulation to current limited transformer keeping the current to 1 ma or under. HDN -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
was just wondering, I have started to make my cs with a machine I bought at radio shack that someone recomended on the list, when I used the 3 9 volt batteries, my cs always turned a pale yellow after a day or so, since I started to use the radio shack transformer using the same water the same silver wires the same time the water is almost black but as it sits, it gets clear cyrstal clear in fact I no longer get the pale yellow color can anyone tell me if this is a bad thing or a good thing hope I am wording this right thank you Lynda - Original Message - From: Harvey Norris harv...@yahoo.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 12:18 PM Subject: Re: CSYellow tinted CS!! --- Ode Coyote coyote...@earthlink.net wrote: Heck. I've heard that even the moon phase can affect outcome. People think you are crazy when this is mentioned. But I have also noticed that when a batch is made during a full moon at night, the conductivity appears slightly higher at start of batch, then the same water processed under normal conditions. Thanx for noting that clear CS is possible, as my last two batches came out this way. I also noted in the past that most of my CS was also turning straw color after 4 days or so. Dont know what the parameter here is, except to note that I use distillata which is the best DW I have come across, and I make the batches by variac regulation to current limited transformer keeping the current to 1 ma or under. HDN -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
Ken, Nope, haven't tried discarding the first cup or so, I'm running the distiller now, having boiled the water for abut 5 to 7 minutes without the lid first per Ole Bob. I have also stopped cleaning with H202 and vinegar (in sprayers) for a while, as the gen is not really open to the air, it doesn't seem likely that could be the cause, but you never know. Did check to see if the yellow CS correlates with phase of moon, but found it doesn't. paula - Original Message - From: Ode Coyote Heck. I've heard that even the moon phase can affect outcome. How about it Larry T. in Florida... Are you still having a similar problem? [He's the only other person I know of. He actually made a batch of yellow at MY house with his water a while back. Unfortunately we didn't try one with my water and his generator...time constraints or something.] A number of volitile chemicals will make it through a distiller. Have you tried discarding the first cup or so? Ode [Ken]
Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
I have observed the lunar influence on CS color on several occasions. I hypothesize that the increased particle size producing the higher TE and the yellowish color is a gravitational influence, but that is merely conjectural. All the same, my hunch is that some research would probably reveal a number of manufacturing processes that take moon phase into account. If anyone can educate me on this topic, I am willing to learn. JBB On Tuesday, Sep 30, 2003, at 01:18 Asia/Tokyo, Harvey Norris wrote: --- Ode Coyote coyote...@earthlink.net wrote: Heck. I've heard that even the moon phase can affect outcome. People think you are crazy when this is mentioned. But I have also noticed that when a batch is made during a full moon at night, the conductivity appears slightly higher at start of batch, then the same water processed under normal conditions. Thanx for noting that clear CS is possible, as my last two batches came out this way. I also noted in the past that most of my CS was also turning straw color after 4 days or so. Dont know what the parameter here is, except to note that I use distillata which is the best DW I have come across, and I make the batches by variac regulation to current limited transformer keeping the current to 1 ma or under. HDN -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
I've repeatedly used Food Lion water at 4.5 uS and gotten clear CS with the silverpuppy gen, so, it's not necessarily the higher initial conductivity that kicks a batch into going yellow but what the higher conductivity is caused by. [ie, not so much the contamination itself, but what the contaminant is] Of course, water without any contaminants won't contain one that will kick the batch. Ode At 08:45 PM 9/26/2003 -0400, you wrote: I use a SilverPuppy and make a gallon at a time in a glass jar. Use nite-lite heater, and it works good on the gallon size. I normally make perfectly clear CS with no detectable tyndall. PWT 9-12. I made two identical batches. One with Crystal Springs Distilled water PWT .05 ,and the other with Winn-Dixie brand dw PWT 1.5. The .05 was clear and the dw with the PWT 1.5 turned out straw color (light yellow) That was the only difference. Now I know why mine is yellow anyway. - Original Message - From: Douglas Haack gvagraph...@adelphia.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 3:36 PM Subject: CSYellow tinted CS!! Silver Listers, We have discussed the yellow tint many times on the list. I now believe after some amateur research into Silver Colloid texts the yellowing is due to silver lumps, anions, ions whatever the preferred term/s is -- is due to sliver sintered off during the brewing electrolosis -- being larger or above 30 Angstroms and this gives the yellow tint. Forgive me if I'm off the mark and do correct me! In my own brewing I'm always pleased when my CS remains clear. Although along the way I've made my share of the 'yellow stuff and consumed it anyway! Haven't game been enough to use H2O2 in my CS. Something to try sometime. Am familiar with H2O2's other great Oxygen therapy uses. I remain yours in SILvation, Douglas Haack Mike Monett wrote: url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m62773.html CSHalf gallon brew From: Dan Nave Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:02:15 Hi Dan, I guess you are using fairly low current density, otherwise you wouldn't see the gray sludge. You would be getting black silver oxide instead. The gray sludge is formed at the cathode where silver ions have picked up an electron to become atoms. These tend to surround hydrogen bubbles that also form at the cathode. It makes a gray sludge that can hang down from the cathode in small whiskers. I use the formation of these whiskers as an indication the brew is finished. If you let it go much longer, the voltage across the cell starts to flatten, which indicates the silver ions are forming gray sludge, and also forming silver oxide in the Nernst diffusion layer at both electrodes. The silver oxide, Ag2O, will combine to form larger particles that give the cs a yellow tint. If you get a yellow tint to the solution, you can add a bit of H2O2 to the cs and see an interesting reaction. Whack the electrodes first to break the gray whiskers so they fall to the bottom of the jar. Soon after you add the H2O2, the yellow tint disappears. This shows the H2O2 acts as a catalyst to convert the silver oxide to ions: 2Ag2O + H2O2 -- 4Ag(+) + O2(g) + H2O2 You may start to notice bits of gray sludge rising to the surface, then falling back down to the bottom. This is caused by the H2O2 reacting with the pure silver to form ions and oxygen. The oxygen bubbles make the gray bits rise to the surface, where the bubble breaks and the bit falls back down. This reaction is quite different from the prevous one: 2Ag + 2H2O2 -- 2Ag(+) + O2(g) + 2H2O The H2O2 is consumed to form oxygen and water, plus silver ions. This reaction is very slow, and it takes a lot of H2O2 to convert even a tiny amount of pure silver to ions. I don't worry about the gray sludge. I just give the electrodes a good whack before removing them from the solution so they fall to the bottom of the jar. I leave them in the jar while transferring the cs to another container, then dump them in the sink. The gray sludge is harmless if you happen to drink it. It is pure silver and will simply pass through the body without interacting. Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
Paula writes: I'm still getting CS that is either clear or very slight straw color at shut off, but gains color steadily after that, no matter if left if the brew jar or decanted into a clean storage bottle. While you are pursuing improvements to your process, Paula, please let me remind you that what you're already producing is still very good. A *LOT* of folks have gotten better with a lot worse product than yours! Don't allow yourself to get discouraged or frustrated. Be well! Mike D. [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@eskimo.com] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
Well, I'm still getting CS that is either clear or very slight straw color at shut off, but gains color steadily after that, no matter if left if the brew jar or decanted into a clean storage bottle. I'm finding that if there is any color to it at all it continues to get more and more color in storage, while if it is perfectly clear at about 72 hours it will stay clear in storage. My DW measures .3 to .8 uS with my PWT (and I have checked the calibration of the meter--it appears to be spot on), I have cleaned my brew jar(s) by every method I've ever read on this list, rinsed them umpteen times iwth distilled water, replaced brew jars, and on and on. Kept detailed records till I'm sick of it, and I still get yellow CS..Every once in a while I get a clear batch--maybe one batch in 12 or even 20.I'm beginning to think I should turn this upside down and try to find out why it ever comes out clear..stopping the process earlier does not seem to make much if any difference, I've got CS of quite low ppm that is yellow, and one batch of 16.9 uS that stayed clear. This has been driving me nuts since I started making CS. I have 3 different generators now, and get yellow CS with all of them, with the very, very rare clear batch.. If there is contaminant in my DW that doesn't show in uS on the PWT, I don't know what it is or what it could be.I am thinking its environmental maybe even unique to my housebut I can't figure out what, I'm now noting the time of day when I start a batch and charting that to see if that is a factor.and I'm checking out my cleaning products (I use vinegar and peroxide to clean kitchen counters etc---) and will now use only CS spray to see if that might be the cause. Should say, I am now home-distilling my own DW, as I thought that ozone in commercial DW might be the problem.it wasn't. paula southwest wyoming - Original Message - From: Ode Coyote I've repeatedly used Food Lion water at 4.5 uS and gotten clear CS with the silverpuppy gen, so, it's not necessarily the higher initial conductivity that kicks a batch into going yellow but what the higher conductivity is caused by. [ie, not so much the contamination itself, but what the contaminant is] Of course, water without any contaminants won't contain one that will kick the batch. Ode At 08:45 PM 9/26/2003 -0400, you wrote: I use a SilverPuppy and make a gallon at a time in a glass jar. Use nite-lite heater, and it works good on the gallon size. I normally make perfectly clear CS with no detectable tyndall. PWT 9-12. I made two identical batches. One with Crystal Springs Distilled water PWT .05 ,and the other with Winn-Dixie brand dw PWT 1.5. The .05 was clear and the dw with the PWT 1.5 turned out straw color (light yellow) That was the only difference. Now I know why mine is yellow anyway. - Original Message - From: Douglas Haack gvagraph...@adelphia.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 3:36 PM Subject: CSYellow tinted CS!! Silver Listers, We have discussed the yellow tint many times on the list. I now believe after some amateur research into Silver Colloid texts the yellowing is due to silver lumps, anions, ions whatever the preferred term/s is -- is due to sliver sintered off during the brewing electrolosis -- being larger or above 30 Angstroms and this gives the yellow tint. Forgive me if I'm off the mark and do correct me! In my own brewing I'm always pleased when my CS remains clear. Although along the way I've made my share of the 'yellow stuff and consumed it anyway! Haven't game been enough to use H2O2 in my CS. Something to try sometime. Am familiar with H2O2's other great Oxygen therapy uses. I remain yours in SILvation, Douglas Haack Mike Monett wrote: url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m62773.html CSHalf gallon brew From: Dan Nave Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:02:15 Hi Dan, I guess you are using fairly low current density, otherwise you wouldn't see the gray sludge. You would be getting black silver oxide instead. The gray sludge is formed at the cathode where silver ions have picked up an electron to become atoms. These tend to surround hydrogen bubbles that also form at the cathode. It makes a gray sludge that can hang down from the cathode in small whiskers. I use the formation of these whiskers as an indication the brew is finished. If you let it go much longer, the voltage across the cell starts to flatten, which indicates the silver ions are forming gray sludge, and also forming silver oxide in the Nernst diffusion layer at both electrodes. The silver oxide, Ag2O, will combine
Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
Hi Paul and All, Home distilling is NOT a simple process. As I have reported several times on this list that is the early 1950's tripple distilling of Mississippi river water is not adequate for biological test materials. There are many organic chemicals in common use that have boiling point very close to that of water. First I would get a very good under the counter filter that has activated carbon in it and that will remove chlorine and fluorine. Then when you start the still leave it open to air and boil for several minutes before turning the steam into the condenser. Hope this will help. Ole Bob -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m62814.html Re: CSYellow tinted CS!! From: sol Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 08:45:11 Hi Paula, You are making very good cs!! Personally, I believe the ions are most effective, and your reading of 16.9 uS indicates a high ionic content indeed. At 1 ppm per uS, this is about 17 ppm. This is much better than what you can get from the 3 nines, and certainly good enough to destroy the Shingles virus, which is one of the most difficult viruses to kill. The reason for the tint is some silver oxide and hydroxide particles formed at the end of the brew, when the concentration of ions was high enough for them to combine. The particles are too small to see, but they bump into each other over time and stick due to the van Der Waals force, and produce the yellow tint that you observe. To give you an idea how strong it is, gecko lizards use the van Der Waals force to walk upside-down on ceilings. Here are a couple of short articles that describe it: http://www.nature.com/nsu/000608/000608-11.html http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2000/06/07_gecko.html The tint is harmless, but you could add a tiny bit of H2O2 to convert the oxide and hydroxide back into usable ions. Try 1/4 teaspoon per litre, and let it sit overnight. It will stay clear, and you probably won't even notice any taste from the H2O2. You could also monitor the ppm near the end of the process, and stop when it reaches 16 ppm or so. You might have to turn the current off and wait for a couple of minutes to get an accurate reading. The odd thing is you mention that all your cs generators do the same thing. I would expect them to behave differently since they probably have completely different electrode configurations and current settings. The only thing common to all the generators is the dw. Many people have mentioned problems with different dw, and Robert an I both had recent problems with our dw. In my case, the WallMart dw worked fine for a couple of years, then suddenly changed. It started leaving a hard black coat on the anode, and the cs started showing a yellow tint where it was clear before. It took a while to find another suitable dw, and about 7 batches to get rid of the hard coat and start making clear cs again. I had to reverse the electrode polarity each run, but eventually got both electrodes clear again. I actually prefer running the brew long enough to get a slight tint, then add a smidge of H2O2 to keep it clear. The reason is this gives the highest possible ion content, so I don't have to use as much. I hold a mouthful for ten minutes, then swallow it or spit it out. The reason I think it works so well is our heart pumps enough blood to circulate it all once per minute. So a high-ionic cs gives the highest concentration in the blood before the liver starts eliminating it from the blood stream. And the high concentration is what kills the virus. So relax. You are doing fine, and you are making very good cs! Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
Mike Would the CS have any effect on the damage already caused by the virus? Wong In a message dated 9/28/2003 3:23:24 PM Pacific Standard Time, 31dtzj...@sneakemail.com writes: At 1 ppm per uS, this is about 17 ppm. This is much better than what you can get from the 3 nines, and certainly good enough to destroy the Shingles virus, which is one of the most difficult viruses to kill. inline: Eagle.jpg
CSYellow tinted CS!!
Silver Listers, We have discussed the yellow tint many times on the list. I now believe after some amateur research into Silver Colloid texts the yellowing is due to silver lumps, anions, ions whatever the preferred term/s is -- is due to sliver sintered off during the brewing electrolosis -- being larger or above 30 Angstroms and this gives the yellow tint. Forgive me if I'm off the mark and do correct me! In my own brewing I'm always pleased when my CS remains clear. Although along the way I've made my share of the 'yellow stuff and consumed it anyway! Haven't game been enough to use H2O2 in my CS. Something to try sometime. Am familiar with H2O2's other great Oxygen therapy uses. I remain yours in SILvation, Douglas Haack Mike Monett wrote: url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m62773.html CSHalf gallon brew From: Dan Nave Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:02:15 Hi Dan, I guess you are using fairly low current density, otherwise you wouldn't see the gray sludge. You would be getting black silver oxide instead. The gray sludge is formed at the cathode where silver ions have picked up an electron to become atoms. These tend to surround hydrogen bubbles that also form at the cathode. It makes a gray sludge that can hang down from the cathode in small whiskers. I use the formation of these whiskers as an indication the brew is finished. If you let it go much longer, the voltage across the cell starts to flatten, which indicates the silver ions are forming gray sludge, and also forming silver oxide in the Nernst diffusion layer at both electrodes. The silver oxide, Ag2O, will combine to form larger particles that give the cs a yellow tint. If you get a yellow tint to the solution, you can add a bit of H2O2 to the cs and see an interesting reaction. Whack the electrodes first to break the gray whiskers so they fall to the bottom of the jar. Soon after you add the H2O2, the yellow tint disappears. This shows the H2O2 acts as a catalyst to convert the silver oxide to ions: 2Ag2O + H2O2 -- 4Ag(+) + O2(g) + H2O2 You may start to notice bits of gray sludge rising to the surface, then falling back down to the bottom. This is caused by the H2O2 reacting with the pure silver to form ions and oxygen. The oxygen bubbles make the gray bits rise to the surface, where the bubble breaks and the bit falls back down. This reaction is quite different from the prevous one: 2Ag + 2H2O2 -- 2Ag(+) + O2(g) + 2H2O The H2O2 is consumed to form oxygen and water, plus silver ions. This reaction is very slow, and it takes a lot of H2O2 to convert even a tiny amount of pure silver to ions. I don't worry about the gray sludge. I just give the electrodes a good whack before removing them from the solution so they fall to the bottom of the jar. I leave them in the jar while transferring the cs to another container, then dump them in the sink. The gray sludge is harmless if you happen to drink it. It is pure silver and will simply pass through the body without interacting. Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m62798.html CSYellow tinted CS!! From: Douglas Haack Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:34:25 Silver Listers, We have discussed the yellow tint many times on the list. I now believe after some amateur research into Silver Colloid texts the yellowing is due to silver lumps, anions, ions whatever the preferred term/s is -- is due to sliver sintered off during the brewing electrolosis -- being larger or above 30 Angstroms and this gives the yellow tint. Forgive me if I'm off the mark and do correct me! [...] I remain yours in SILvation, Douglas Haack Hi Douglas, There are several problems with the sintering theory. First, it should occur all the time. This means you could never make cs that did not show some tint. The tint would get more pronounced the longer you run the brew. As you have observed, you can make clear cs that stays clear. You only get the tint when you go past a certain brew time. A second problem with the sintering theory is it explains why you get a black deposit on the anode, but it cannot explain why you can also get the same deposit on the cathode. The particles have no charge, so there is no reason for them to leave the vicinity of the anode and collect on the cathode. A third problem with the sintering theory is there is no explanation why large groups of silver should leave the anode in the first place. This would violate Faraday's laws of electrolysis, which state the amount of silver liberated at the anode is proportional to current and time. The Faraday constant is an international unit of measure, and is known to an accuracy of 7 decimal places. If sintering occurred, it would make it impossible to determine the Faraday constant to this level of accuracy. If you study the electrolysis process, you will discover silver ions leave the anode one at a time, and each ion gives up one electron. This matches the electron that is consumed at the cathode to form hydrogen, and keeps the currents at the anode and cathode the same. They must be, since they are in a series circuit. The reason for the tint is a bit more subtle. When you make cs, you are producing silver ions at the anode and hydroxyl ions at the cathode. Since these ions have a temperature above absolute zero, they have a thermal velocity. They are moving quite rapidly. When they encounter a water molecule, they bounce off like billiard balls on a pool table. Although they move in random directions afer each collision, they eventually fill the volume of dw. This process is called diffusion, and I recently posted two simple experiments that show how this happens: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m61491.html http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m61527.html When you make cs, a thin layer called the Nernst diffusion layer forms at each electrode. The region next to the electrode has the highest concentration of ions, and the concentration is proportional to the current density at the electrode. When the ions from the opposing electrode reach this layer, some ions will combine to form silver oxide. The equations are shown in my reply to Reid Harvey at: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m62791.html The probability that a silver ion will meet a hydroxyl ion and combine depends on the density of ions in the cloud surrounding each electrode. This depends on the current density at the electrode, and the concentration of ions already in solution. It is a bit like trying to see through fog. If the fog is thick, you cannot see very far. This corresponds to a high density of ions, and a high probability they will combine. If the fog is thin, you can see better. This corresponds to a low density of ions. This means the ions can pass through the cloud with little chance of combining. This explains why you can make clear cs. You stopped the process before the concentration of ions in solution became high enough to form visible particles. It also explains why you can get a black deposit on each electrode. The silver oxide forms in the Nernst diffusion layer at each electrode. Since the oxide is close to the electrode, it has a good chance of sticking to the nearby electrode. If you run at high current density, the probability of forming silver oxide is also high, and you can get misting at each electrode as shown here: http://www.utopiasilver.com/images/gen3.jpg and here: http://silverpuppy.com/thermal%20stir%20sequence.html If you run at low current density, you can make a higher concentation of cs before the ions start combining to form oxide. Instead of a black deposit, you will find a gray sludge at the cathode as shown here
Re: CSYellow tinted CS!!
I use a SilverPuppy and make a gallon at a time in a glass jar. Use nite-lite heater, and it works good on the gallon size. I normally make perfectly clear CS with no detectable tyndall. PWT 9-12. I made two identical batches. One with Crystal Springs Distilled water PWT .05 ,and the other with Winn-Dixie brand dw PWT 1.5. The .05 was clear and the dw with the PWT 1.5 turned out straw color (light yellow) That was the only difference. Now I know why mine is yellow anyway. - Original Message - From: Douglas Haack gvagraph...@adelphia.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 3:36 PM Subject: CSYellow tinted CS!! Silver Listers, We have discussed the yellow tint many times on the list. I now believe after some amateur research into Silver Colloid texts the yellowing is due to silver lumps, anions, ions whatever the preferred term/s is -- is due to sliver sintered off during the brewing electrolosis -- being larger or above 30 Angstroms and this gives the yellow tint. Forgive me if I'm off the mark and do correct me! In my own brewing I'm always pleased when my CS remains clear. Although along the way I've made my share of the 'yellow stuff and consumed it anyway! Haven't game been enough to use H2O2 in my CS. Something to try sometime. Am familiar with H2O2's other great Oxygen therapy uses. I remain yours in SILvation, Douglas Haack Mike Monett wrote: url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m62773.html CSHalf gallon brew From: Dan Nave Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:02:15 Hi Dan, I guess you are using fairly low current density, otherwise you wouldn't see the gray sludge. You would be getting black silver oxide instead. The gray sludge is formed at the cathode where silver ions have picked up an electron to become atoms. These tend to surround hydrogen bubbles that also form at the cathode. It makes a gray sludge that can hang down from the cathode in small whiskers. I use the formation of these whiskers as an indication the brew is finished. If you let it go much longer, the voltage across the cell starts to flatten, which indicates the silver ions are forming gray sludge, and also forming silver oxide in the Nernst diffusion layer at both electrodes. The silver oxide, Ag2O, will combine to form larger particles that give the cs a yellow tint. If you get a yellow tint to the solution, you can add a bit of H2O2 to the cs and see an interesting reaction. Whack the electrodes first to break the gray whiskers so they fall to the bottom of the jar. Soon after you add the H2O2, the yellow tint disappears. This shows the H2O2 acts as a catalyst to convert the silver oxide to ions: 2Ag2O + H2O2 -- 4Ag(+) + O2(g) + H2O2 You may start to notice bits of gray sludge rising to the surface, then falling back down to the bottom. This is caused by the H2O2 reacting with the pure silver to form ions and oxygen. The oxygen bubbles make the gray bits rise to the surface, where the bubble breaks and the bit falls back down. This reaction is quite different from the prevous one: 2Ag + 2H2O2 -- 2Ag(+) + O2(g) + 2H2O The H2O2 is consumed to form oxygen and water, plus silver ions. This reaction is very slow, and it takes a lot of H2O2 to convert even a tiny amount of pure silver to ions. I don't worry about the gray sludge. I just give the electrodes a good whack before removing them from the solution so they fall to the bottom of the jar. I leave them in the jar while transferring the cs to another container, then dump them in the sink. The gray sludge is harmless if you happen to drink it. It is pure silver and will simply pass through the body without interacting. Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
