[SLUG] Ruby-on-Rails talk - interest?
Would there be any interest in me running an Introduction to Ruby on Rails talk at SLUG? If so - do you have any questions you'd like me to research ahead of time? Cheers, Taryn -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Ruby-on-Rails talk - interest?
* Nick Croft [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: Specifically, adding rails to apache2 sites-enabled without messing up already fragile and complex set-up. eep, not exactly an introductory topic ;) How to have different projects there. Not sure exactly what you're asking here. What setup do/did you have and what was the issue with different projects? Will you be able to do a write-up if people can't get there? No problem. Cheers, Taryn -- Let there be lights! http://fiatlux.webcentre.co.nz/ -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Ruby-on-Rails talk - interest?
* Scott Finneran [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: Would the talk be focusing on or covering Ruby itself or mostly Rails as a system? Either would be good. Mostly rails. Good question, though. The two are almost, but not entirely, the same thing :) Taryn -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] rain back-up plan for BBQ tomorrow?
Subject line says most of it. The xmas BBQ is on tomorrow, but it's looking pretty rainy atm. Is there a back-up plan in case it's bucketing? Taryn -- Let there be lights! http://fiatlux.webcentre.co.nz/ -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] can ruby run perl/python libraries?
* Sonia Hamilton [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: I'm thinking of learning Ruby - is there an easy way of running Perl and Python code/libraries from Ruby? I've googled and browsed manuals in Dymocks Library ^H^H^H Bookshop, can't seem to find an answe I haven't read in depth but Ruby/Python: http://www.goto.info.waseda.ac.jp/~fukusima/ruby/python/doc/index.html seems to be a way to embed python into ruby Cheers, Taryn -- Let there be lights! http://fiatlux.webcentre.co.nz/ -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] can ruby run perl/python libraries?
* Sonia Hamilton [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: I'm thinking of learning Ruby - is there an easy way of running Perl and Python code/libraries from Ruby? I've googled and browsed manuals in Dymocks Library ^H^H^H Bookshop, can't seem to find an answer. on a quick google, this is the closest thing I could find for perl: http://www.yoshidam.net/perl_en.txt again - I've never used it and haven't read through it - but I guess it's a start for you :) Reason I ask is that I want to learn Ruby for Ruby on Rails, but there's so much good stuff in the existing Perl and Python libraries/cpan. true - though if you're using Rails I'd recommend you check if a library already exists in Rails first (a given, really). (Yes I know about Python/Django, but Rails seems to have better doco/manuals at the moment). Absolutely - and it's a dream to work with for web-app development. Besides-which, if you're using Rails, you at least know that most fo the Ruby community is behind Rails. Compare with the current joke that there are more web-development frameworks than keywords in Python ;) Cheers, Taryn -- Let there be lights! http://fiatlux.webcentre.co.nz/ -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Ruby/Rails junior developers
Hi All, My work is looking for some junior Ruby/Rails developers. Job description is available on seek here: http://www.seek.com.au/showjob.asp?jobid=7958778 Cheers, Taryn -- Let there be lights! http://fiatlux.webcentre.co.nz/ -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: [SLUG-ANNOUNCE] Monthly Meeting: November, 2005
* Robert Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: We record all the main talks, only sluglets dont get recorded. understood, but not all of them are available on the website... I guess I'm putting in a special request that this one go up - it would be really appreciated :) Many thanks, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Accounts System - Reccomendations
* Lyle Chapman [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: I was wondering if anyone here could help out with some advice. The company I work for is looking at implementing some new open source accounting software called SQL Ledger, has anyone heard of this program and if so is it good, bad indifferent etc. I've been using it now since August and have found it pretty good. It took me a while to get my head around the procedures involved - but that no doubt has a lot to do with the fact that I have never studied accounting and was learning the basics as I went along. You have to pay for the doco which I'd say is a reasonable way for him to earn a little money from all his efforts - though I have to say that I wasn't as impressed by the doco as I could wish to be... it's more along the lines of here is Form X, it has these fields which can be filled in with these values rather than what I was hoping for which was so you want to purchase some more floor stock for your company... start by creating the parts in inventory, then create a vendor and a purchase order... etc etc. That sort of procedural stuff I basically had to google for clues... but I seem to have worked out the kinks in my own head now. I tend to find that if you leave the system up and running for more than a day or so it can start to do some odd things (like calculate GST wierdly) but that fixes itself when you close the browser and reopen... and maybe it's been fixed in the more recent version (haven't gotten around to upgrading it yet). I'm also not at all sure how to set it up to *not* charge somebody GST when you're selling something to somebody overseas and your prices all automatically include GST. I've tried setting that customer up with GST refund and tax included but that doesn't seem to work... anybody have any ideas? otherwise it's pretty good. I'd still recommend the doco even though it doesn't have everything I would have expected... even if only because it's a damn nice piece of software for free - and the doco costs significantly less than a commercial copy of, say, quickBooks or MYOB... IMO it's worth it just for that, but it does help you if you're really not sure what a field is supposed to be for. It just doesn't help you if you know you've got to do some particular thing... but don't know how/where in the system to do it. Cheers, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Re: [SLUG-ANNOUNCE] Monthly Meeting: November, 2005
Hi all, * Chris Deigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: 8:20pm (approx): Split into two groups for: * Special Interest Talk: Erik de Castro Lopo - Careers for Geeks is it possible for a recording to be made of this talk? It sounds really interesting, and I'd love to get to it, but I currently have a pre-existing and now immoveable appointment on that night :( Cheers and thanks, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Anyone know of a LISP Users group in Sydney ?
* Mark Jonathan Greenaway [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know of any LISP user groups in our fair city ? Nope, but I'm willing to get involved with one. I'd probably pop along to such a thing largely out of curiousity. I think there are many people on this list who have at least had a passing infatuation with LISP, or something like it. If you like LISP, you might like Smalltalk as well. looks like the beginning of a good-size small interest group of some sort - count me in as one of the have had a passing infatuation. Mostly by reading Paul Graham: Hackers and painters and remembering back to using it at uni. http://www.paulgraham.com/books.html is probably worth browsing through as well. yeah, pretty good from what I've read so far... of course there are so many things I want to learn and not enough time to do all of them :P Cheers, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] latex question
* Michael Lake [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus:
\setlength{\unitlength }{1mm}
\begin{picture}(10,10) % width=10x10
\put(0,0){\makeleftpage }
\put(140,0){\makerightpage } % puts 140mm to the right
\end{picture}
erg - nope, I'm afraid that doesn't work as well as you expect. It's not
only overlapping left-right but also all stuck in the middle at the top
of the page :P
sorry.
Taryn
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Re: [SLUG] latex question
* Ian Wienand [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus:
Looking back at your original example, Latex is assuming you are using
a portrait page, which isn't wide enough to get all that stuff in.
Thus Latex then just shoves the boxes ontop of each other.
a good idea, but sadly not the case - my real .tex is in landscape
format and still suffers from the same problem :(
You can check the width with the \showthe command (\showthe\textwidth)
to make sure it does look wide.
it seems to break on this while generating the page - pesumably this is
normal behaviour.
I get a text width of 758.835pt... which sounds like a large number and
therefore plausible - but I admit my in-brain conversion function is
dodgy.
WIERDWIERDWIERD! I've suddenly got it to work and I'm not yet sure why.
:(
I was preparing an example to show how I changed it - I was using the
parboxes to surround them and was going to compare the parboxes vs the
(then) broken minipages... but my example worked where it shouldn't
have:
\newcommand{\makerightpage}{
\begin{minipage}{0.25\textwidth}
whatever\\
whatever\\
whatever\\
\end{minipage}
}
\newcommand{\makeleftpage}{
\begin{minipage}{0.75\textwidth}
some really long line to show that the line length pushes it out
beyond the edge of the right-hand section when it's not working.
\end{minipage}
}
\begin{tabular}{l|r}
\makeleftpage \makerightpage
\end{tabular}
So I put in the data from my more complex real invoice and it works too.
I'm honestly not sure what I *wasn't* doing the last time that is now
fixed... this is annoying as I'm not sure, therefore how to avoid it in
future... :(
though it does solve my current problem, at least. :)
Thanks for helping get my thought processes moving through this one.
Taryn
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Re: [SLUG] latex question
* Angus Lees [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus:
At Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:37:07 +1000, Taryn East wrote:
\begin{tabular}{l|r}
\makeleftpage \makerightpage \\
\end{tabular}
You could also use something explicit (and simpler?) like this:
\makeleftpage \hspace{3mm} \vrule \hspace{3mm} \makerightpage
ah thank you - I like that - much simpler, and steers clear of the
horrible HTML-ish tables-as-layout thing to.
Thanks,
Taryn
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[SLUG] latex question
Hi all, I'm having an annoying minor issue with latex that I just can't
seem to get past and was hoping to tap the collective wisdom of slug
once more for a Clue.
I'm writing a template for an invoice that we will send to the customer.
It's in landscape format and has a lefthand section (with all the
details fo the order and price etc - which the customer keeps) and a
righthand section (which is a summary section that is torn off by the
customer and sent in with their payment).
Each side has some complicated stuff in it for layout, so I decided to
write two \minipage sections and then use a tabular for left/right
layout. I've put each \minipage into its own \newcommand just to make
layout look simpler so at its simplest form I have:
\begin{tabular}{l|r}
\makeleftpage \makerightpage \\
\end{tabular}
Now when the leftpage function has just, say, some text in it - there's
no problem. They display nicely to the left/right of each other - no
matter how complicated the right-hand page is. However, the moment that
I added the \minipage to the left-hand side it all broke. the left and
right-hand side overlap one another (the text printing over the top of
the other text).
\newcommand{\makerightpage}{
\begin{minipage}{0.25\textwidth}
whatever\\
whatever\\
whatever\\
\end{minipage}
}
so this works:
\newcommand{\makeleftpage}{
some text here
}
and this doesn't:
\newcommand{\makeleftpage}{
\begin{minipage}{0.75\textwidth}
whatever\\
whatever\\
whatever\\
\end{minipage}
}
though it's hard to see as the line doesn't expand across the whole
page. A more complete example is given at the bottom of this email so
you can compile it and see what it looks like.
is there something that I have misunderstood in how these things work?
Does anybody know of the way that it should be done instead?
Cheers and thanks,
Taryn
\documentclass[10pt]{article}
\usepackage{a4}
\begin{document}
\newcommand{\makerightpage}{
\begin{minipage}{0.25\textwidth}
whatever\\
whatever\\
whatever\\
\end{minipage}
}
\newcommand{\makeleftpage}{
\begin{minipage}{0.75\textwidth}
%%% Header section %%%
\begin{tabular}{lcr}
\parbox{5cm}{ % customer details and address
Insured Name here\\
Customer name here\\
Street address here\\
Suburb, State PCD}
Logo here
\begin{tabular}{ll} % policy identifiers
Date:policy date here\\
Invoice No: 0510abcdef\\
Policy No: NSW 0510 ghijkl \\
Amount: \$ AAA.aa\\
\end{tabular}
\\ %%% end of header section row %%%
\end{tabular}
\end{minipage}
}
\begin{tabular}{l|r}
\makeleftpage \makerightpage \\
\end{tabular}
\end{document}
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Re: [SLUG] latex question
* Ian Wienand [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: I'm not sure about why the minipages overlap, but I had to do something similar once and I used multicol to separate out the page. I've tried it a bit more using multicol (now putting in stuff in the right-hand column) and unfortunately they still overlap :( only now the column-widths are not controlled in th way they were for the tabular environment :( sigh any other ideas? any way that I can contrain the width fo the lot? I'd put it all within a parbox if it wasn't fragile - I'd put it all inside a fixed-width one-cell tabular* environment but that is so inelegent :P and so like the html-way of doing things. Surely there has to be a way of doing this that isn't so ugly :( Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Your top-ten linux desktop apps
* David [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: On Wed, Sep 28, 2005 at 11:29:29AM +1000, Bruce Badger wrote: On 9/28/05, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If they are doing low volumes, I can't imagine a punter using mutt. It's really hard to convince someone raised on gui that consoles are actually easier. Perhaps we could have a SLUG talk on mutt? I've heard so many good things about mutt, so I'l like to give it a try, but feel that I don't have the time to learn how to get going with it. snip just *why* mutt is more efficient that a GUI mail tool ... and all the things that makes mutt cool! :-) One word: speed I'd agree, but I'd add configurability. Though I'm sure there are GUI mail clients out there that can be as highly configured as mutt - I haven't found one (don't get me started on evolution). :P ;) I also like it because I'm a vim person... I also read my email through ssh... I think there's a lot of horses for courses involved too, but it's the best I've come across and the most highly adaptable to my changing needs. I'd love a talk on mutt.. i know that I'm only using a fraction of it's tools. I'd agree there! Cheers, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] request contact from computerbank
apologies for using this forum, but I am looking to get in contact with one of the computerbank people and I know some have shown up at SLUG meetings... we have attempted to google for contact information but come up blank - the cbnsw website is not very intuitive in how to get in contact and the donate link is broken (along with several others...). :( anyway - hopefully the right somebody will see this message and respond offlist :) Cheers, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] great code to learn from
* Erik de Castro Lopo [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: Just about any language can be made to look good by applying to a small problem that suites the language. Large projects tackling large difficult problem domains test the language and the developer much more that toy problems. good point. So, to consider something particularly large - what about the linux kernel itself? yes I know - not python, but I am interested in the general case as well - though maybe skip the assembler bits. are there bits of it that have been done exceedingly well... Cheers, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] great code to learn from - request
* QuantumG [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: I heard someone bitching the other day that gtk+/python apps are slow. Not been my experience, but if you're sufficiently bored, why don't you download some and see for yourself? I guess my point was that there are so many out there to choose from, and time is finite. So I figured if there are better ones out there I should start with those, or, in the case of C, continue on with those. For me the C is more important. My python is little enough that I am still figuring out the basics - but with C - I know the basics, I'm fairly reasonable already... what I want to know is how to turn myself into a brilliant C-hacker and the one good way, I figure, is to study the work of other brilliant C-hackers... and thus learn a few things. randomly hacking my way through mediocre C and stumbling across new tricks by accident seems to be a little more ad-hoc than it should have to be. :) Cheers, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] great code to learn from - request
* Benno [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: I think this is because great code is code is due to the absence of suckiness rather than the presence of brilliance. At least IMHO.[1] make sense - but surely there's some code around that has had the greatest amount of suckiness removed... or at least enough that it's better than most. So I think in the tradiation of anti-partterns, it is best to ask, which code sucks and why, and then try to avoid doing that. ok, so what are your thoughts? :) and, in the same vein, does that stupid things students do emailing list (I think it was a KEG thing) still exist? I've been making do with thedailywtf.com but it doesn't always have the same ring to it. :) Cheers, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] great code to learn from - request
* Ian Wienand [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: So the best code is code you look at and say is that it - I could have done that, even though you probably couldn't have. good point! If you're interested in systems, I'd suggest starting with an intermediate step of some good books first, the obvious ones that spring to mind are snip thanks, I'm always on the lookout for good books. I'll add these to the list. Once you've got some idea jump in and start programming something. grin have been for 5 years now - which I guess is part of my point: I'm not a beginner programmer, I know how to program reasonably well. I was hoping to find any methods that would take me beyond reasonable into excellent... books help with that - and I devour them regularly; programming helps, but it's a bit of a blind search. I figured that looking at smart code would also help. I fully agree that actually writing it is better than reading it, but I also figured there'd be no harm in reading good stuff on top of all the rest :) Cheers and thanks, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] great code to learn from - request
* Matthew Hannigan [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: On Wed, Sep 21, 2005 at 01:09:52PM +1000, Taryn East wrote: what nobody else is going to bite? :( Depends whether you wanted programming in the small or large. anything and everything will help. Jon Bentley's Programming Pearls books are excellent. thanks - this sounds like a good lead. Not sure whether they count as FOSS though. I only really stipulated FOSS so that I had a chance to look at the code :) thanks, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] great code to learn from
Hi all, fresh from a discussion with communitycode I have a request to pick your combined brains about great code out there in the FOSS community: What FOSS projects (or parts therof) do you know that have really great code in them? The kind of excellent code that a person with reasonable but not brilliant skills could read/study and learn nifty things from? Specifically for my personal satisfaction I'd love to look over some projects with really schmick C code, but I'm also learning Python and know a little lisp - and would love info on those too... but anything at all would be appreciated - I think it'd be a great reseource for people trying to learn a language - stand on the shoulders of giants, and all that. :) Cheers and thanks, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] great code to learn from - request
what nobody else is going to bite? :( I felt for sure there'd at least be one person self-promoting: my code is briliant, you should come see it in my project foo ;) I'm asking for anybody's opinion of code that they think is worthwhile to look at. It doesn't have to be universally accepted as being perfect (though that would be really good if you know of any) just what you have found to be really great. eg I thought the implementation of foo structures in the bar project was excellent, however their support for the baz interface was a bit ordinary would be just fine... maybe I should just go and ask on /. at least I'll be certain to get a few opinions.. ;P cheers, Taryn [who is trying to prod a sleeping tiger...] -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] SQL-ledger and IDENT fatal error...
* Howard Lowndes [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: You did restart your Postgresql after you changed pg_hba.conf...? good question - I have a feeling I may not have, but Michael's posts had that as an instruction so I did it this time... oh, adn I should probably have posted to the list sayin that his instructions worked for me - I think I just emailed him personally... Thanks, though :) Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] SQL-ledger and IDENT fatal error...
Hi all, I'm having some issues getting SQL-ledger to work and I'd be very grateful for any suggestions on where to look next. Basically, I'm running Ubuntu Hoary. I apt-get installed sql-ledger (btw, postgres didn't automatically get pulled in when I did that - should it have?) and set up the database users etc and have logged into the administration page. I am up to the step that tells me I should do a create dataset, but whatever I do (whether I put details in or not) it gives me the following error: Error! FATAL: IDENT authentication failed for user sql-ledger Now I've googled for answers and the FAQs all do mention this error - they tell me to edit pg_hba.conf and add local all all trust which I tried... to no avail. :( I googled further to find a suggestion to someone else, mentioning that they had had two copies around and it was seeing the wrong one... using find I see that I have both: /etc/postgresql/pg_hba.conf /var/lib/postgres/data/pg_hba.conf so that looks like a distinct possibility... I was hoping somebody would be able to help me to find out which one is the right one and what I do with it when I do... otherwise if anybody has any other good suggestions they would also be welcome. Thanks heaps, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] the parable of the mudpile...
I am a c-programmer with five years of experience in a commercial environment, and have become increasingly aware of what I would consider to be a few failings in the technical processes of our company... but of course I am just the junior developer (don't seem to be able to shake that word from my official title) and my word is not considered to be more important to that of the senior developer that I work with (there are only two of us here - and the java guy who wisely keeps to himself). I am, of course, under the standard NDA... so of course I can't publically rant about the problems we're having... So I've written this *entirely fictional* story about two *entirely fictional* mud-hut builders for your general enjoyment (and my specific catharthic requirements). This story consists of a conversation between a junior mud-hut builder(2) (of five years building experience) and a senior mud-hut builder(1) (of a guesstimated 20-30 years building experience) and takes place in the setting of the sprawling mud-cty in which the junior builder has been working for the past year and a half. enjoy, Taryn East PS - I'm actually writing up a formal review of the processes in question... I figure it'll either get me promoted, fired or ignored. In case of the latter two... does anyone know of any C-programming jobs going in a good company atm? *** The parable of the mudpile *** Copyright Taryn East 2005, All rights reserved. 1- Well, you grab a handful of mud and slap it onto the ground, then grab another handful and slap it on top, and keep doing that and eventually you have a huge, towering pile of mud, which our users can live in! 2- ...but the structure looks butt-ugly! 1- Who cares what that looks like! The user is the only person that matters and they never see those bits. 2- Don't the builders have to work here? Don't you think it's a little stressful for them? 1- Pshaw... Real Builders don't care about that - are you soft or something? Besides, we don't have time to build neatly and it works just fine, so quit your whining. 2- but what happens if we want to extend a mudhut? are these designs extensible? 1- Sure it is! We just blow a hole through here and slap on a few more piles of mud, then clean up the bits from the hole-blowing. Oh and don't worry about those big cracks over there, we can just put a bit of mud-slip over them, you'll never notice the difference! Hmmm, maybe we'd better shore up this wall, it seems to be collapsing under the new weight (oops, didn't realise that was a weight-bearing wall). 2- aren't these things documented anywhere? Even the walls don't have labels! is there no blueprint? 1- No, why would we need that? It's obvious what it does if you just look at how it goes together! Aren't you a good enough builder that you can just see how it works without being told? 2- Well, yes... but it takes me more time to do that than to read a blueprint... and if we had a blueprint we could have planned to strengthen that wall before we blew a hole through it! 1- Look, we don't have time for all that, and we don't need it anyway, it works now, doesn't it? We don't need a planning document - I just figure out approximately what we're going to do, then flesh it out as I go along. 2- But what if we come across something that affects everything that you hadn't thought about? what if suddenly you notice that it's blocking an emergency accessway? 1- Oh we just blow a hole through it and start that bit again... go back to the drawing-board, if you will 2- But if we planned this stuff from the beginning, you wouldn't have had to do that - I'm sure we'd save more time if we didn't have to do all that stuffing around and rechanging everything to fit the new stuff... and it wouldn't be so unstable as it'd be planned from the beginning! Oh hey, look at this, isn't this new renovation blocking access to the mudhut behind it? 1- The tenants can climb over that wall... oh, all right, that's an easy fix we can just build ourselves a bridge over this bit. 2- Now the bridge is blocking access to the mudhut on the other side, and it's even higher so they definitely can't climb over. 1- Well, I'll just give them a rocket-pack. See? We can solve any problem we need to... 2- If we'd planned from the start we could have planned a common accessway for all of them to use... and that rocket-pack looks a little dangerous, I think it might have the potential to explode under certain circumstances. 1- What are you worried about? Most of the time it'll work just fine, you just need to handle it right. 2- Are you sure our users are going to always handle it just right? what if they're not trained in rocket-pack use? Maybe we should just provide a few safety switches, some checks for overheating or excessive gas-flow and a flash-back valve or something just in case... 1- exasperated sigh Oh you're just needlessly complicating things. It is so unlikely we'd need it, that sort of thing happens
Re: [SLUG] the parable of the mudpile...
* Rob Sharp [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: Is that not how every mud-hut building company works? ;-) I only hope the senior dev^H^H^Hmud-hut builder isn't on the SLUG list...! unlikely... his home system is windows (and he works from home)... Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] the parable of the mudpile...
* Rowling, Jill [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: Systems Engineering used to be a compulsory subject at both UNSW EE/CS and UTS EE; clearly it isn't compulsory everywhere! lets just say that the guy I work with has been around longer than IT degrees have... Unfortunately most small businesses (includes many telcos, computer game developers and some dot-com survivors) are unaware that the cost of a project is inversely proportional to the effort put into the initial specification, and just cannot understand the leap from small projects to large projects. The usual result is they cease to be in business after a while. yep... which is something I'm trying to impress upon them before it's too late. Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] argh! printer not workiong on ubuntu :(
sigh of course - five minutes after having sent this (throwing my hands up in disgust) I removed it, reinstalled it and now it works :P oh well... murphy's law is still firmly in operation ;) Still, I'm not complaining too loudly! :) Cheers, Taryn * Taryn East [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: ok, I've had enough - I really want my printer working and I just can't seem ot get it to. :( I run ubuntu (hoary) and it seems to detect it's there just fine, but it keeps telling me parallel port busy will try again - of course it's a USB printer and I keep changing it to either use detected printer or even USB port #1 (after checking that it actually is a) plugged into said port and b) turned on). it still won't actually print me up a test page this is really annoying as it was working fine when I had it on Warty. :( is anyone able to help me figure out what's going wrong here? :( Thanks in advance, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] argh! printer not workiong on ubuntu :(
ok, striek that... it prints the test page just fine, but when I try to actually print a pdf it just prints, well, you coudl say it prints with invisible ink... though there's a lot of printing going on for a completely blank page :P Anyone have any idea what might be going on? Cheers, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] argh! printer not workiong on ubuntu :(
ok, I've had enough - I really want my printer working and I just can't seem ot get it to. :( I run ubuntu (hoary) and it seems to detect it's there just fine, but it keeps telling me parallel port busy will try again - of course it's a USB printer and I keep changing it to either use detected printer or even USB port #1 (after checking that it actually is a) plugged into said port and b) turned on). it still won't actually print me up a test page this is really annoying as it was working fine when I had it on Warty. :( is anyone able to help me figure out what's going wrong here? :( Thanks in advance, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Tonight's AGM
* Craige McWhirter [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: Regrettably I can't make tonight's AGM so I'd like to wish everyone a great night, good luck to people who are standing and welcome to the new committee. another regrettably, myself - I've been looking over my free time recently and decided that really, I don't have much at all - so I'll regrettably have to decline a position on the committe :( sorry - I know you guys were looking for any and evry person available for that, but I'm just doing so many things already that I would not be able to give the time and attention to the position that it would deserve. :( Hope all goes well, and you find some good people anyway... Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] youth and linux?
out of curiosity - is there anyting specific to support younger people? Mainly becuase my BF's son (16) is getting interested in this stuff and was wondering where a good place to point him would be. I was thinking of dragging him along to SLUGlets to start with but was wondering if there's anything special set up. Cheers, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] youth and linux?
damn.. must remember... shift-L to reply! * Michael Fox [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 11:18:48 +1100, Taryn East [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Give them a crash n burn machine, and then a few distros to play with. Direct them to the howto LDP stuff. Best way to learn is to jump in and use. agreed but.. it's not always everybody's favourite way of learning - and I was more interested in getting him interested in the community than just playing with distros... what I personally often find is that there is little motivation to learn something if all you can do is play - it's better if you have: a) a problem you are attempting to solve with it (and therefore an angle into it that you can pursue) OR b) a whole bunch of like-minded friends that can talk about nifty things you find out about it and can help you try out yourself... in this case I know he doesn't have the former (and unlikely to as noone around him is using linux apart from myself and his father... and he doesn't see me very often and his dad is still just trying to get his system to work). and I was hoping to explore the latter option - if there was a group avaiable... I was looking for something equivalent to Linuxchix - ie a group of people the same age that had an interest and can support each other... Cheers, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] youth and linux?
* Kevin Saenz [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: This stuff Do you mean computers and linux? Like windows, linux has a hardware compatibility list. Do you know what he wants to do with Linux? The way I started out was playing with DEC unix at uni way back when win3.0 was out, I hated using windows since the release of win95, and found Linux a happy medium, for programming and gaming. I first got linux in a redhat unleashed it was a pretty comprehensive book. He could also look at linux.org, linux.com and read the documentation. Again - starting by reading reams of doco and trying to figure out something you want to do isn't as interesting (IMO) as having a bunch of people to talk to about it who say I did this really nifty thing the other day, why don't you try it? enthusiam (especially about such a nebulous group of stuff as linux or even open source) generally is infectious and spreads better the more people you can get in close-contact with. :) I gues I was mainly wondering if such a group already did exist, specifically with youth in mind... I'm already planning on dragging him around the generic haunts... The other thing is that you could install a program called vmware if feel nervous about installing linux on your computer. grin have been running debian for several years now and recently changed over to ubuntu (though I should have stuck with Warty - changing over to Hoary killed my printer-driver somehow... :P ) and his dad has been using linux - though for less time... though he insists that he wants to run gentoo - though it's taking him ages to get it actually in a running and stable state :P Anyway, he has a Mac laptop of some descript and I think he's using whatever the latest Mac OS is (don't know much about 'em myself). I handed him the ubuntu cd-set a week or so ago though I haven't heard back about it just yet. so no problem with having a machine up and available... Cheers, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] safe(ish) single-login from website
In case anyone's interested, I threw together a quick-fix demo in CURL as below and it seems ot have passed our preliminary tests... all the Channel partners need to is include this in their first page. It seems to be working fine *except* that it's sending me the no frames version of our (horribly framey) index page... and relative links are relative to the *script* not the original page... so I'm having to deal with internal, relative links in those pages pulled through this script. so I'm still looking at it, but it otherwise works (as in I am getting the page and I am logged in as the correct user). It's even using something other than basic authorisation due to choosing anysafe. So thanks for all your help everyone :) If anyone can spot some assumption I'm making that invalidates what I'm doing - feel free to pull me up on it :) Cheers, Taryn ?php // create a new curl resource $ch = curl_init(); // set URL and other appropriate options curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_URL, +http://ourserver.com.au/curltest/curltestpage.php;); curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_HEADER, 0); curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_USERPWD, username:mypass); curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_HTTPAUTH, CURLAUTH_ANYSAFE); // grab URL and pass it to the browser curl_exec($ch); // close curl resource, and free up system resources curl_close($ch); ? -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] safe(ish) single-login from website
ok, I've found an issue with it... it seems to be doing multiple posts (or something) as I am getting a whole bunch of results back (copies fo the same page). for example, if the page curltestpage.php that is retrieved has just phpinfo() in it - I get at least three copies of phpinfo all intermingled :P when I change the requested-url to something more useful for us (ie one of our served html pages) I get three copies of it on the same page... all slightly intermingled. AFAIK, only the curl_exec should be actually gettign the page - so why am I returned multiple copies all mangled together? What am I doing wrong? :( Cheers, Taryn * Taryn East [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: ?php // create a new curl resource $ch = curl_init(); // set URL and other appropriate options curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_URL, +http://ourserver.com.au/curltest/curltestpage.php;); curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_HEADER, 0); curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_USERPWD, username:mypass); curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_HTTPAUTH, CURLAUTH_ANYSAFE); // grab URL and pass it to the browser curl_exec($ch); // close curl resource, and free up system resources curl_close($ch); ? -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] C newbie seeks directions
Take below with a pinch of salt - I'm not a highly experienced C-programmer, but hey. * Rod Butcher [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: I've found an online university course tutorial which covers basic data types, operators, functions, prototyping, structures, pointers, malloc :- http://www.cs.cf.ac.uk/Dave/C/ It's dated 1999. Should this be enough, any major changes since then, LOL.. no - and this is one of the big advantages of C - it doesn't change year-to-year but is instead quite stable... I learned some of the basic aspects of C in various dodgy ways but the first time I really understood it was after reading through (and working through the exercises in) C programming language written by none other than KR themselves... It doesn't give you much about the practical aspects of compiling (for which you should maybe have a look at makefile stuff - it's all I ever use) - but all other aspects of the language (and very good programming style) seem to be gained through it. It also has some really good references for the basic libraries in the back. It doesn't have how to program stuff in there, but from the sound of it you've done that before and I found it an exceptional book for C as a second language. Also - am I OK just working with a text editor like Gedit, or do I really need to use some API to do things properly ? I use gvim - which has a fairly reasonable c-syntax highlighter - though it can get a bit broken at times... but c has been written for many years before special editors were around - they're not necessary, just your preference. Recommended newbie-friendly C mailing lists ? don't know any of them, I'm afraid. I tend not to find much use out of specific mailling lists unless searching the archives. YMMV Anything else I should study to do this properly ? - I'm finding things like foo.xs which are used to generate foo.c for instance, so is there some tutorial on typical methods used for generating C sources modules ? no idea what an .xs is - I've never come across one of them. -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] safe(ish) single-login from website
again I missed the list... I'll get used to shift-L someday... * [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: Sounds like a cookie that requires them to login the first time, doesn't it? or can a site set a cookie for another site? I would think that browsers would not let us see the cookie set by the channel-partners' sites. :( Cheers, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] safe(ish) single-login from website
* Rob Sharp [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: I'm guessing that you use PHP, and if you are, then the CURL library is your friend... http://au2.php.net/curl You should be able to authenticate to the remote site and 'proxy' the pages to the users browser by echoing the server response to the browser... You could then rewrite their links to use your 'proxy'. Hope that points you in the right direction. YES! thanks so much , this is exactly the sort of thing I'm looking for. I can throw one of these together on our site and see how it works then send the code on over to our channel partners. Thanks again, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] safe(ish) single-login from website
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: Sounds like just what WebCollage (http://www.webcollage.com) do. snip it all sounds good - but I'd rather not recommend to our channel partners that they essentially buy a new system for their websites... they have their own systems already. But it's an option to keep in mind - especially gien that we can't hand-craft a solution for each of them, we can always say and if none fo these works for you... Cheers and thanks, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: safe(ish) single-login from website
ok, reading this has made me suspect my knowledge of cookies is much less complete than I had at first thought... I'm just going to ask a whole bunch more questions and hopefully nut out the answers... * Matthew Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: There's lots of things that can be done with cookies: The bog-basic way -- have the channel partner set a cookie for your site containing info on them. Maybe base64 encode it to keep out the casual poker. this would be ok for the channel partners logging into our site, but wouldn't clients of the channel partner have issues with the cookies being for the channel-partner site? how would their site set a cookie for our site such that someone logging into their site can then get into ours? The hyper-secure option -- Provide each of your channel partners with the public portion of an asymmetric key, with which they encrypt the contents of the cookie, typically a unique ID of some sort, of perhaps other useful info. Your site then decrypts the cookie with the private portion of the key, and (assuming everything matches) grants appropriate access. Use asymmetric rather than symmetric so that insecurity at the other sites won't screw *you* over, and use a different key pair for each channel partner so that you can prove which partner provided the referral. this seems to be a way of securing the above... which is nice, but probably OTT given that I know how dodgy security is already on our site... while I'm trying to persuade them to change this, I may not be able to do it on this project (especially as I'm the junior programmer and the senior programmer is much more into it's just easier this way... but I'm not bitter ;)) anyway, as I can see, the above raises the same questions for me as the previous one - I'm not sure how we can then get this onto the channel-partner's clients without having to hand each of them the key... and I get the feeling this is similar to just handing them the login details. To clarify, I think the business perspective here is that the channel partners don't want their clients realising that they can just come to our site by themselves without having to use the CP sites... they don't want the middlemen (ie themselves) cut out :) So they don't want the clients knowing that there is any other login even involved. The WS option -- Have the channel partner generate a unique ID and send it to your site via some sort of basic SOAP interface, and hand the same ID (or derivative) to the user in a cookie set for your site. this sounds interesting and probably the better option in the long run - but this also sounds like we would have to alter how we currently do logins (currently via http authentication rather than SOAP options) which is unlikely to be scoped into the current project. :( It's probably a good idea for our next generation project, though. I hear they're planning on changing over to form based authentication... which to me means nothing and I haven't heard anything more about it apart from just that, even after asking (I think I got some vague waffle about it being just better). Alternately, the channel partners could have individual portal pages which they point their users to, which you then set cookies or whatever to identify the visitor and they get redirected to the right place. by individual do you mean a different page for each user? Probably not a good idea - I think they like their generic pages and I can understand why. Otherwise I think I'm just confused... ok, now they aparrently used to do this by having a url with the username/password in it (ie using basic http authentication with the login details as parameters). Eeew. Why bother even *having* logins if they're going to send them to anyone that asks for them? yep, that's my reaction... again, I'm just a junior - what would I know ;) I guess they like the impression of being secure without actually putting all that hard work and effort that it'd obviously take to fix it (not). sigh But then, this is business for you and I am just not surprised anymore. There is a hell of a lot on the web on autologin functions from the recipient side fo things (ie the one receiving the login details) but we need some code to hand to our channel partners that can run on their server to send the login details to us... something that can be Details of the partners' sites? If you're going to write it for them, unless they're all using the same environment and roughly the same websites, you're not going to be able to send them a one-size-fits-all bit of code. yes I know and I have informed my manager of this - he didn't realise it and hoped that it could all be done at our end... he was hoping we could just hand them a URL-solution like it was before... Anyway, I've convinced him that we can only offer possible solutions - and he has asked me to write a demo area that we can show to CPs. The PHP solution of CURL ofered in
Re: [SLUG] safe(ish) single-login from website
* Gavin Carr [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: Try mod_auth_tkt: http://www.openfusion.com.au/labs/mod_auth_tkt/ this sounds really like a good option but... https://www.taryn.com/cgi-bin/ticket.cgi?user=foo;pass=bar this looks like exactly the sort of thing that I can't do anymore - which is prompting me to make these changes... Have I misunderstood what you're doing here? Otherwise it'd be a great solution as it won't matter what system the CPs are running for it to work! Cheers and thanks, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] safe(ish) single-login from website
I've been given the task of doing a single-login and am having trouble finding out how to do it... the issue is that our business allows some of our website to be viewable through the website of some of our channel partners. These channel partners have a login to our website to allow them to do this. However, the channel partners have customers that only have a login to the channel-partner websites... and the channel partners don't want to directly give them the login to our site, but do want the pages displayed (generally using yucky frames... but hey). ok, now they aparrently used to do this by having a url with the username/password in it (ie using basic http authentication with the login details as parameters). Firstly this is unsafe and secndly - microsoft (in a rare moment where their interests align with ours) has turned this feature off in IE (to stop address-bar spoofing). I need some sort of alternative method of doing this, however all the 'help files on this issue seem to just say: let the users get the prompt and login... the problem with this being that the user does not have the login details and will not be given them - ie this is not a solution for me :( Now when this issue first came up I got all enthusiastic and went wandring through the web and found that you can send the details in an http header etc etc... however I seem to have hit a brick wall in that I don't see how to actually send that. There is a hell of a lot on the web on autologin functions from the recipient side fo things (ie the one receiving the login details) but we need some code to hand to our channel partners that can run on their server to send the login details to us... something that can be activated through a normal webpage that will not bug the user for anything. I trawled through the HTTP specs and the PHP pages looking for anything that might help, but I readily admit that I'm doing a random search - I don't really know where to go look for this stuff. Does anyone here have any ideas? Even just some general direction on a good place to go looking? Cheers and thanks in advance, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] apt-get dist-upgrade and config files...
ok, I just went through a long dist-upgrade and it asked me if I wantted to overwrite some of my config files with the maintainer's versions... now I don't remember ever editing any of these (apart from crontab) so I don't know what changed so I hit no to all of them... but I'm pretty sure some of them could have easily been replaced without being a problem - and maybe it would have been a good idea to just install them anyway. however, now I'm not sure which files they were or how to update them - is there any way to be able to tell which files are not the latest? (I've tried just running dist-upgrade again, but that doesn't do anything more. Cheers, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] floppy umount not working
ok, stupid user question warning... I have some files I want ot copy to floppy... I mount the floppy and copy in the files. I go to umount it doesn't work... says the device is busy. I make sure I'm out of the directory - I am. I do a ps aux | grep fd0 and nothing shows up... nothing seems ot work... it keeps telling me that the device is busy... I randomly stumble around the web looking for stuff and trying things with the below results in a listing below... I especially got pretty confused when fuser kept throwing up random, different stuff... but then I don't *really* know what fuser does... sigh suffice it to say - I'm stuck and don't even know where to begin to find a solution - I've tried everything I (in my limited knowledge) know what to do... and I really don't want to have to restart the machine to fix it... I'd rather know what went wrong so I don't do it again! Is anyone able to help me out? thanks in advance, Taryn serendipity:[~]% mount /dev/fd0 serendipity:[~]% umount /dev/fd0 umount: /media/floppy0: device is busy umount: /media/floppy0: device is busy serendipity:[~]% umount /media/floppy umount: /media/floppy0: device is busy umount: /media/floppy0: device is busy serendipity:[~]% man fuser Reformatting fuser(1), please wait... serendipity:[~]% fuser -muv /media/floppy serendipity:[~]% fuser -muv /dev/fd0 serendipity:[~]% fuser /dev/fd0 serendipity:[~]% fuser /media/floppy /media/floppy: serendipity:[~]% fuser -muv /media/floppy serendipity:[~]% fuser -v /media/floppy USERPID ACCESS COMMAND /media/floppyroot kernel mount /media/floppy0 serendipity:[~]% sudo su Password: serendipity:[/home/taryn]# ps aux | grep floppy root 30506 0.0 0.1 1820 564 pts/2R+ 18:38 0:00 grep floppy serendipity:[/home/taryn]# ps aux | grep floppy serendipity:[/home/taryn]# ps aux | grep fd0 root 30511 0.0 0.1 1820 568 pts/2S+ 18:38 0:00 grep fd0 serendipity:[/home/taryn]# fuser -v /media/floppy USERPID ACCESS COMMAND /media/floppyroot 3576 f famd root kernel mount /media/floppy0 serendipity:[/home/taryn]# fuser -v /media/floppy USERPID ACCESS COMMAND /media/floppyroot 3576 f famd root kernel mount /media/floppy0 serendipity:[/home/taryn]# umount -f /media/floppy umount2: Device or resource busy umount: /dev/fd0: not mounted umount: /media/floppy0: Illegal seek umount2: Device or resource busy umount: /media/floppy0: device is busy serendipity:[/home/taryn]# -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Linux software for finding broken links
W3C have one here: http://validator.w3.org/checklink simple, easy and good reputation. Cheers, Taryn * Peter Rundle [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: Sluggers, As per the subject, looking for recommendations for a simple tool to run on a Linux desktop which will scan a web site and report broken links. Cheers P. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] talks last night
* Jan Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: Sorry, I didn't think to turn the camera on until half way through, so I missed the talks. We've got a recording of Luke's awesome Accessibility talk though. erm, silly question - where can they all be found? the only ones listed on: http://www.slug.org.au/talks/ Are one from January and another from April - am I looking in the wrong place? Cheers, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Stallman at UTS
Is he likely to speak somewhere at a time where people that actually work are able to get to? ie outside of 9-5? otherwise I'm sad that I'll have to miss out... :( Cheers, Taryn * Pia Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: Hi all, three posts today! :) RMS is speaking at UTS next Friday at 2pm. https://www.acs.org.au/acs_events/index.cfm?attributes.fuseaction=eventdetailsevent_id=935branch=NSW Anyone interested needs to register, but anyone that hasn't seen RMS speak I highly recommend to attend. Cheers, Pia -- Pia Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux Australia -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] NSW Tender meeting
admittedly i haven't been following this conversation but... Openskills you have to pay for... I find this a big turnoff and it's highly unlikely that I'd join. Cheers, Taryn * Craige McWhirter [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 06:03 +1000, Pia Smith wrote: put together a panel of who would be appropriate. It might be a good time to get together, look at all the requirements and put together a matrix of skills in NSW. We already have a few directories online: Sounds like OpenSkills - http://openskills.com/ - may as well use an existing infrastructure. -- A man was reading The Canterbury Tales one Saturday morning, when his wife asked What have you got there? Replied he, Just my cup and Chaucer. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] NSW Tender meeting
* Jeff Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: quote who=Taryn East Openskills you have to pay for... I find this a big turnoff and it's highly unlikely that I'd join. SLUG is more expensive to join than OpenSkills. ;-) yeah, but you don't have to pay for SLUG to take advantage of most of what SLUG has to offer... also it's very easy to see what advantages you gain by forking out money for SLUG... how do I know that I'll actually gain anything from registering with openSkills? Cheers, Taryn [who is interested in openskills, but not enough to put her money where her mouth is and register] -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] version control... svn vs arch?
Hi all, well I'm currently in the process of migrating to a new computer and am at the picking funky packages stage... now, at home I had been using cvs as version control - and I know it's getting dated. At work they have started using svn (subversion, that is) and it seems pretty ok to me... however I happened to overhear part of a conversation at SLUG the other day where someone was saying that ?arch (I think) was better? but didn't get to hear why... now... at the risk of starting some sort of religious war... I was wondering if those that have tried both would be willing to tell me the relative strengths of the two... or point me at a reliable source for such information. They both seem to fit what I need as just a personal user with a repository for only a few projects... but I figure if I'm going to be starting from scratch anyway - I might as well pick the one more suited to my needs. Cheers and thanks, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] version control... svn vs arch
Hi all, well I'm currently in the process of migrating to a new computer and am at the picking funky packages stage... now, at home I had been using cvs as version control - and I know it's getting dated. At work they have started using svn (subversion, that is) and it seems pretty ok to me... however I happened to overhear part of a conversation at SLUG the other day where someone was saying that ?arch (I think) was better? but didn't get to hear why... now... at the risk of starting some sort of religious war... I was wondering if those that have tried both would be willing to tell me the relative strengths of the two... or point me at a reliable source for such information. They both seem to fit what I need as just a personal user with a repository for only a few projects... but I figure if I'm going to be starting from scratch anyway - I might as well pick the one more suited to my needs. Cheers and thanks, Taryn [who needs to remember to mung her email addresses properly, or she just gets bounces...] -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] cd and tab-completion
ok, I'm just curious... If I have a file called foobar and a directory called foobaz and I type cd foo and hit tab... why does tab-completion offer both choices? AFAIK it makes no sense to cd to a file - so I was wondering why tab-completion isn't intelligent enough to just not bother with files. Is this something that no-one has gotten around to yet or is there actually a good reason not to implement this (that I just haven't thought of)? Cheers, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Software Exorcism...
Hi all, noticed a book that looked like it could have potential - but couldn't look into it enough to tell (while browsing at the shop). Book: Software Exorcism Author: Bill ?Blunden? Anyone have any experience with it? Know if it's good, crap or indifferent? I just liked the premise of the thing... Cheers, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Software Exorcism...
* Michael Lake [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: Taryn East wrote: Book: Software Exorcism Author: Bill Blunden Anyone have any experience with it? Know if it's good, crap or indifferent? I just liked the premise of the thing... Havent seen the book but if it helps there is a /. review here (from simple google): http://books.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/10/07/2334244mode=threadtid=126tid=133tid=156tid=186tid=187 Looks interesting, but the review only addresses one aspect of what I saw as the point of the book. The review (and pretty much all subsequent comments) hinge around the office-politics aspect. I was hoping it'd actually have some useful stuff on debugging/dealing with legacy code (which to me seemed part of the point of the book). Cheers, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Software Exorcism...
* Stuart Cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: There was a fantastic looking Addison Wesley book that was addressing how to debug someone else's source code and be able to find stuff within hours even on looking at totally new code. It wasn't this book. Can't remember the name of it but it was quite new. Now i can remember. Code Reading: The Open Source Perspective http://www.spinellis.gr/codereading/ It's probably more what you're after, haven't read it myself but looks handy. looks like it could be good. The reviews aren't too shabby either. Has anyone had any personal experience with this one? -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] dictation and wacom
* James Gregory [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: However, I do remember that IBM had a product called 'ViaVoice'. I don't know if it's any good, but there was a linux version of it available at some point. The references I can see at suggest that there are RPMs available, but they could take a bit of finding. Anyway, it might be worth tracking down since it's probably the best linux solution for voice recognition stuff. Not sure about the Linux version - the other versions were proprietarily licenced (AFAIK), and they were fine... as long as you had a US accent or something reasonably close. I remember there was lot of trouble getting it to work for a vietnamese lady in our group... unfortunately I don't know much more than that, however... if you find it's gotten better since then, give us a yell. Cheers, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] special characters in mutt... again
* James Gregory [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: On Thu, 2004-08-19 at 10:33 +1000, Taryn East wrote: Not sure what you mean by stty size though - is that .muttrc thing? stty size is a command. You type it into a terminal. I get this when I run it: [EMAIL PROTECTED] james]$ stty size 24 80 HTH, James. -- James Gregory [EMAIL PROTECTED] I get 49 80 Presumably this is rows columns? Which would mean this isn't the problem column-wise as everything else I can think of is set to 80 columns (except where it needs to be 78 eg wrap-sizes in gvim I think). Cheers, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] special characters in mutt... again
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: Taryn East wrote: I think it's called index page (at least in at the bottom of its help page). cool, thanks Sounds like mutt thinks your lines are longer than they actually are. yesh, it seems like that. When I expand the width of the terminal - it fixes them (depending on how long they are). What does stty size show, and what is your real screen size (in terms of characters)? real screen size (as in width of terminal) is generally pretty much set to 80 chars wide. AFAIK any setting I've touched reflects this. Not sure what you mean by stty size though - is that .muttrc thing? if so - it's not in there AFAIK. Otherwise - where do I look? (newbie here with a lot to learn still) This line: set index_format=%4C %Z %[!%d/%m] %-17.17F (%3l) %s seems to be the closest things i can find in .muttrc that might be appropriate... but it doesn't seem to have width in it anywhere... and I'm not entirely sure what these format strings do. My guess is they show what things appear in the index view in what order which is why it might be appropriate - but I can't seem to find anything in the vim help on it... :P Note: I definitely didn't have this problem before I altered the character set :( I was pretty sure I touched nothing but the encoding setting... sigh Chers, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] special characters in mutt... again
Ok, this thread sstarted when i was trying to get special characters to work in mutt. It seemed to work and it's been going along ifne - however I have noticed another effect that seems to have occurred either as a result of the changeover - or maybe it was something I bumped while doing the changeover :( In any case, mutt's listing page (not sure what it's officially called - the page where an email folder lists all it's email with numbers) has become a little screwy-looking. The lines seem to wrap around to the next line (which covers the following line until you run the cursor line over the top of them - which resets it). The threading looks odd (sometimes the | and - lines are replaced by ??? or they're all out of alignment). Can anyone point me at the right settings to take a look at to fix this? Cheers and thanks, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] argh! dieing mouse!
Ok, so at work we're running red hat (shrike), and I have a fairly standard, cheapo mouse - which is probably half my trouble... but the thing keeps dieing! stops dead, will not accept any more input. I have a script which stops and starts the mouse up again which I run each time this happens (I've become very familiar with my keyboard shortcuts) but this is annoying and I am plagued by the I shouldn't have to do this feeling. Can anyone help me figure out what is actually going wrong so that it doesn't happen anymore? Cheers and thanks, Taryn Mouse type: YAHA N4280 model M-07 Mouse driver being used: generic PS/2 wheel mouse Green Mile script: su -c /etc/init.d/gpm restart -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] argh! dieing mouse!
* Dave Airlie [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: I think I get something similiar I hit Ctrl-Alt-F1 and Alt-F7 and it starts to work again.. Erm, what are these keyboard shortcuts supposed to do? They're not listed under the standard gnome defaults... On Fri, 13 Aug 2004, Peter Hardy wrote: On Fri, 2004-08-13 at 14:11, Taryn East wrote: Ok, so at work we're running red hat (shrike), and I have a fairly standard, cheapo mouse - which is probably half my trouble... but the thing keeps dieing! *snip* Mouse driver being used: generic PS/2 wheel mouse Green Mile script: su -c /etc/init.d/gpm restart Have you tried rejigging X to use its own PS/2 mouse driver and disabling gpm altogether? It just sounds like gpm is having problems, and I tend not to trust it too much anyway (bad experiences trying to use gpm with USB mice..) erm, nope - I'm a newbie still... some questions: - what is gpm? (I got the script from someone else) - how do I go about disabling it? Cheers and thanks, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] argh! dieing mouse!
* Dave Airlie [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: - what is gpm? (I got the script from someone else) console mouse service.. for using the mouse in text mode ... - how do I go about disabling it? Redhat-System Settings-Server Settings-Services untick the gpm box and save changes... also hit stop on it ... excellent - have done and will see if it's all ok from now on :) thanks heaps, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: [SLUG-ANNOUNCE] UTS Install day 21st August
ooh, i can get to this one! brilliant! My questions are: - what room will it be held in? - what (exactly) do I need to bring? (eg presumably I bring the computer.. .but which bits can I leave at home?) Cheers and thanks, Taryn * Cheng Lim [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: Hi, I would like to confirm UTS Install day 21st August ? Is this still on ? I certainly would like to have my Windows NT4 PC installed with Linux. Thanks Cheng Lim IT Architect IBM Australia Craige McWhirter writes: -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Announcements List - http://slug.org.au More info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/announce -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] special characters in mutt... again
* Mary Gardiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: On Wed, Aug 04, 2004, Patrick Lesslie wrote: Presumably you will need UTF-8 support in both the kernel (should be fine for a stock kernel) and in /etc/locale.gen (that's on Debian). Use dpkg-reconfigure locales to generate a set of locates and set them up on a system-wide basis on Debian. Ok, I have done this - also followed Patrick's suggestions of altering locale.gen My terminal (on my work machine0 is gone-terminal and is show n to be using UTF-8. My .muttrc currently has: set charset=iso-8859-1 but this is what I played with last time I tried to fix this problem and changing it only resulted in me being able to turn the /123 into ? I have also been told that maybe loking at my fonts might be a good idea - but not sure whether i should do that on my home machine or on my ork one - and not sure how to do it on either (ie what font should I be looking at? what font am I missing?). Cheers, Taryn PS - why do replies automatically go to the message sender instead of the list? -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] special characters in mutt... again
* Taryn East [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: My terminal (on my work machine0 is gone-terminal and is show n to be using UTF-8. apologies for typo-dyslexia... that was meant to be gnome-terminal... Cheers, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] special characters in mutt... again
* Mary Gardiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: On Thu, Aug 05, 2004, Taryn East wrote: I have also been told that maybe loking at my fonts might be a good idea - but not sure whether i should do that on my home machine or on my ork one - and not sure how to do it on either (ie what font should I be looking at? what font am I missing?). It's the fonts on your client machine (whichever machine you are physically sitting in front of). ok, sure - but I'm not sure which fonts I'm supposed to look for - which one(s) am I missing? :( PS - why do replies automatically go to the message sender instead of the list? http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html ok, that makes sense... I'd never been told that before. Cheers and thanks, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] special characters in mutt... again
* Patrick Lesslie [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake thus: My .muttrc currently has: set charset=iso-8859-1 but this is what I played with last time I tried to fix this problem and changing it only resulted in me being able to turn the /123 into ? It still might be a good idea to lose that line. I don't have that one. It might be overriding the gnome-terminal setting while mutt is open in the terminal. Yay! that seems to have fixed it. Probably that wasn't it completely, tho' as I used never to have that line in my muttrc... so a combination of stuff seems to have done the trick... Cheers and thanks, Taryn [who is absurdly happy for such a small victory...] -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] special characters in mutt... again
Er hi, yes I know there was a thread on this a little while ago - but I admit I wasn't paying attention to it at that point, and I'm also not sure if it was precisely what I need for myself, so I thought I'd repost - and hope nobody minds too much... Basically my issue is this: - I am a part of a gaidhlig mailing list, and there are special characters in said list (mainly vowels with accents) which come through to me thusly: A Shi\371saidh, 's truagh nach fhaca mi thusa aig a' chuirm-chi\371il le Cl\354ar! Tha mi dol leatsa, bha iad d\354reach sgoinneil! Bha mi aig SMO airson Cursaichean G\362irid a-rithist, agus bha e fior fheumail agus c\362mhnachail, mar is abhaist. Is miann leam an-sin fhuirich. (Chan eil mi cinnteach mu an rosgrann seo) (hopefully that'll display literally instead of as the characters that I want to see... if not - they appear to me as \ followed by a 3-digit number (eg 354 or 362)) Now, I read my email from my home machine (while at work) through an ssh connection... so there are multiple layers of program, any of which may be at fault at the moment. gnome-terminal 2.2.1 is the terminal I'm using at work. Now, I once had a bit of help from someone who suggested changing character encodings and stuff - but I remember that the only success in that seemd to be to change the 3-digit numbers into question marks... so not much help :( He then suggested looking at my fonts - but I'm not entirely sure how to do that (I'm still a newbie). At work we use redhat, at home I have debian - and I don't know if it's mutt or the terminal so don't know which to look up... so was kinda hoping that the wiser souls on this list might have some insight/advice to help steer me in the right direction... Cheers and thanks, Taryn -- This .sig temporarily out-of-order. We apologise for any inconvenience - The Management -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
