time scale labels
Hello All, I have been working on a vertical sundial and I have a question. This South facingvertical has two time scales on it, one at the top that shows thehour numbers to use during the period of the year when Standard time is in effect, and one at the bottom to show the hour numbers to use during the Summer when Daylight Saving time is in effect. The hourlines will include the appropriatelongitude correction for the site. There is also a completeEoT chart located right under the shadowfield on the face of the dialplate. My question is whether or not it would beacceptable to actuallylabel each scale "Standard Time" or "Daylight Saving Time"so that casualobservers wouldbe able to tellwhich one to use for the appropriate time of the year. My understanding is that there are threethings to consider when designing a dial that will indicate StandardTime: solar time at the reference meridian, longitude correction, and EoT. Since all three of these things will be dealt with on the dial face, would it be appropriate to label the time scales? One of my good sundial friends has commented that technicallythe scales do not really indicate true Standard Time/DST because the EoT is not actually computed into the hourlines. I would be interested to hear what the consensus is regarding this issue, because I want to do the right thing. If theseexact titles are objectionable does anyone have any ideas what I might use for alternative labels? Iam trying to make a dial that is easyfor"regular people" tounderstand and use, and I think some kind of label along the time scales would be helpful to casual observers. Regards, Jim Tallman Sr. Designer FX Studios 513.829.1888
Re: Shortest day and latest sunrise
Regarding the attempt to learn why the latest sunrise and sunsets don't fall on the solstices, I think analemma.com has a pretty good explanation. I suppose some background info and lingo is necessary to understand any subject, and that site does a good job of giving the background for the beginners. - Yes, it's really fantastic! -
Re: Keeping it simple
I believe that the simplified explanation of these concepts is very important. Complex scientific overloading, however accurate, can easily intimidate the casual user of one of our creations, to the point of actually making them give up or lose interest in understanding the concept at all. Not everyone, obviously, is looking for that level of information. An elegant, simple explanation for some of these basic concepts - the ones they must confront in order to understand and use the dial they are standing in front of - is what is needed to welcome the uninitiated to the concept, and for that matter, to dialing as a whole. I too am trying to figure out how to explain these things, and I hope that by doing so I might even increase our ranks by sparing my customers the initial intimidation of the subject matter. If the mountain does not look too steep more people may be inclined to climb it, so to speak. I wonder what the party definitions would be to some of these basic dialling concepts, such as EoT? Jim, I agree 150% with you! It is very important not to make things more complicate than they are... Sometimes it is the lingo, some others the tools (mathematical, theoretical, academical) we use to describe them and some others our own limitations to express them... And unfortunately many people gets discouraged from knowing more about someting beautiful, useful or simply' mind-expanding' (so as to call it) because of this. As an accidental teacher, I tend to think a lot about which are the foundations, the barebones, of what I am going to teach: which is the core and which is just chatter. And I can't help thinking that maybe it is our fault that most people are so'scientifically and technically illiterate'... even my own engeneering colleagues! Best regards, Anselmo -
Re: time scale labels
Hi Jim, Although it would be technically incorect to use the terms Standard Time and Daylight Saving Time for these scales, I for one would not object as it does convey the meanings to th general public. And it does serve as a conversation-starter for us pedantic diallists ;-). If you wanted to avoid these terms with their precise definitions, then you could use Summer Time and Winter Time as approximations. I once used the term Greenwich Time (rather than Greenwich Mean Time) for a horizontal dial which included the longitude correction and had the EoT as a graph. Let us know what you finally opt for, please! Regards, John Dr J R Davis Flowton Dials N52d 08m: E1d 05m -
Re: time scale labels
Hello Jim, To differentiate between the two scales perhaps you could use roman numerals for one and arabic for the other. Also, may I suggest that instead of putting them one above the other that you put one "inside" the other so that they appear to be side by side. Perhaps you could separate them by a continuous double line? As John has said, I don't think it matters whether you call them summer time or DST etc. but you would need an EoT curve either on the dial plate or, more conveniently, on a small plate at head height. Regards, Silas Higgon (Connoisseur Sun Dials) - Original Message - From: J.Tallman To: Sundial List Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 3:56 PM Subject: time scale labels Hello All, I have been working on a vertical sundial and I have a question. This South facingvertical has two time scales on it, one at the top that shows thehour numbers to use during the period of the year when Standard time is in effect, and one at the bottom to show the hour numbers to use during the Summer when Daylight Saving time is in effect. The hourlines will include the appropriatelongitude correction for the site. There is also a completeEoT chart located right under the shadowfield on the face of the dialplate. My question is whether or not it would beacceptable to actuallylabel each scale "Standard Time" or "Daylight Saving Time"so that casualobservers wouldbe able to tellwhich one to use for the appropriate time of the year. My understanding is that there are threethings to consider when designing a dial that will indicate StandardTime: solar time at the reference meridian, longitude correction, and EoT. Since all three of these things will be dealt with on the dial face, would it be appropriate to label the time scales? One of my good sundial friends has commented that technicallythe scales do not really indicate true Standard Time/DST because the EoT is not actually computed into the hourlines. I would be interested to hear what the consensus is regarding this issue, because I want to do the right thing. If theseexact titles are objectionable does anyone have any ideas what I might use for alternative labels? Iam trying to make a dial that is easyfor"regular people" tounderstand and use, and I think some kind of label along the time scales would be helpful to casual observers. Regards, Jim Tallman Sr. Designer FX Studios 513.829.1888
Re: time scale labels
In a message dated 7/18/2002 11:21:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I am trying to make a dial that is easy for regular people to understand and use, and I think some kind of label along the time scales would be helpful to casual observers. Good luck. I have not found the ideal solution either for this particular situation. Perhaps labling the scales Approximate Standard Time, or Uncorrected Standard Time, and the same for DST. This may encourage your readers to use the EOT chart. I wish I had a better suggestion. I like John Davis' suggestion of Winter Time and Summer Time. Bill Gottesman Burlington, VT 44.4674N, 73.2027W -
Re: time scale labels
Due to horizon clutter,I am constrained to asouth-facing dial that can only display times near noon, so I made a meridian dial with a discontinuous analemma to account fortransitions between CDT and CST. It's at http://www.stlwoodworkersguild.org/gallery/snyder_sundial.jpg Don Snyder 38.6N, 90.3W - Original Message - From: sundials To: sundial@rrz.uni-koeln.de Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 1:30 PM Subject: Re: time scale labels Hello Jim, To differentiate between the two scales perhaps you could use roman numerals for one and arabic for the other. Also, may I suggest that instead of putting them one above the other that you put one "inside" the other so that they appear to be side by side. Perhaps you could separate them by a continuous double line? As John has said, I don't think it matters whether you call them summer time or DST etc. but you would need an EoT curve either on the dial plate or, more conveniently, on a small plate at head height. Regards, Silas Higgon (Connoisseur Sun Dials) - Original Message - From: J.Tallman To: Sundial List Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 3:56 PM Subject: time scale labels Hello All, I have been working on a vertical sundial and I have a question. This South facingvertical has two time scales on it, one at the top that shows thehour numbers to use during the period of the year when Standard time is in effect, and one at the bottom to show the hour numbers to use during the Summer when Daylight Saving time is in effect. The hourlines will include the appropriatelongitude correction for the site. There is also a completeEoT chart located right under the shadowfield on the face of the dialplate. My question is whether or not it would beacceptable to actuallylabel each scale "Standard Time" or "Daylight Saving Time"so that casualobservers wouldbe able to tellwhich one to use for the appropriate time of the year. My understanding is that there are threethings to consider when designing a dial that will indicate StandardTime: solar time at the reference meridian, longitude correction, and EoT. Since all three of these things will be dealt with on the dial face, would it be appropriate to label the time scales? One of my good sundial friends has commented that technicallythe scales do not really indicate true Standard Time/DST because the EoT is not actually computed into the hourlines. I would be interested to hear what the consensus is regarding this issue, because I want to do the right thing. If theseexact titles are objectionable does anyone have any ideas what I might use for alternative labels? Iam trying to make a dial that is easyfor"regular people" tounderstand and use, and I think some kind of label along the time scales would be helpful to casual observers. Regards, Jim Tallman Sr. Designer FX Studios 513.829.1888
time scale labels
Message text written by INTERNET:sundial@rrz.uni-koeln.de My question is whether or not it would be acceptable to actually label each scale Standard Time or Daylight Saving Time You can do whatever you like - you are the designer! If nothing else you will generate a discussion between other 'anoraks' like the rest of us! However, if you worry about the 'purity' aspect and since you have already corrected for longitude, you could use the phrases 'Standard Solar Time' and 'Daylight Saving Solar Time'. Then mark your EoT graph as providing the correction from 'Solar Time' to 'Mean Time'. Hope this helps Patrick - E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Patrick_Powers/ Lat: N 51d. 49m. 09s: Long: W 00d. 21m. 53s -
Re: time scale labels
A sundial has to indicate local time, the solar time or natural time. People that like to know the official time has to look on a watch. That is all you have to explain to 'regular people'. They will understand it. Willy Leenders Flanders in Belgium "J.Tallman" wrote: Hello All,I have been working on a vertical sundial and I have a question.This South facing vertical has two time scales on it, one at the top that shows the hour numbers to use during the period of the year when Standard time is in effect, and one at the bottom to show the hour numbers to use during the Summer when Daylight Saving time is in effect. The hourlines will include the appropriate longitude correction for the site. There is also a complete EoT chart located right under the shadowfield on the face of the dialplate.My question is whether or not it would be acceptable to actually label each scale "Standard Time" or "Daylight Saving Time" so that casual observers would be able to tell which one to use for the appropriate time of the year. My understanding is that there are three things to consider when designing a dial that will indicate Standard Time: solar time at the reference meridian, longitude correction, and EoT. Since all three of these things will be dealt with on the dial face, would it be appropriate to label the time scales?One of my good sundial friends has commented that technically the scales do not really indicate true Standard Time/DST because the EoT is not actually computed into the hourlines. I would be interested to hear what the consensus is regarding this issue, because I want to do the right thing. If these exact titles are objectionable does anyone have any ideas what I might use for alternative labels? I am trying to make a dial that is easy for "regular people" to understand and use, and I think some kind of label along the time scales would be helpful to casual observers.Regards,Jim TallmanSr. DesignerFX Studios513.829.1888
Re: Keeping it simple
To avoid confusing my clients, I just tell them that these irregularities are due to the earth's tilt and elipital orbit and leave it at that. And this satisfies them. (As soon as I mention the word orbit they know it's a complcated subject and never press me for more information). John John L. Carmichael Jr. Sundial Sculptures 925 E. Foothills Dr. Tucson Arizona 85718 USA Tel: 520-696-1709 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Website: http://www.sundialsculptures.com - Original Message - From: Anselmo Pérez Serrada [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sundial@rrz.uni-koeln.de Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 8:31 AM Subject: Re: Keeping it simple I believe that the simplified explanation of these concepts is very important. Complex scientific overloading, however accurate, can easily intimidate the casual user of one of our creations, to the point of actually making them give up or lose interest in understanding the concept at all. Not everyone, obviously, is looking for that level of information. An elegant, simple explanation for some of these basic concepts - the ones they must confront in order to understand and use the dial they are standing in front of - is what is needed to welcome the uninitiated to the concept, and for that matter, to dialing as a whole. I too am trying to figure out how to explain these things, and I hope that by doing so I might even increase our ranks by sparing my customers the initial intimidation of the subject matter. If the mountain does not look too steep more people may be inclined to climb it, so to speak. I wonder what the party definitions would be to some of these basic dialling concepts, such as EoT? Jim, I agree 150% with you! It is very important not to make things more complicate than they are... Sometimes it is the lingo, some others the tools (mathematical, theoretical, academical) we use to describe them and some others our own limitations to express them... And unfortunately many people gets discouraged from knowing more about someting beautiful, useful or simply' mind-expanding' (so as to call it) because of this. As an accidental teacher, I tend to think a lot about which are the foundations, the barebones, of what I am going to teach: which is the core and which is just chatter. And I can't help thinking that maybe it is our fault that most people are so'scientifically and technically illiterate'... even my own engeneering colleagues! Best regards, Anselmo - -
Re: time scale labels
Mac and I have been using the term Zonal Time to describe solar time corrected for longitude. John John L. Carmichael Jr. Sundial Sculptures 925 E. Foothills Dr. Tucson Arizona 85718 USA Tel: 520-696-1709 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Website: http://www.sundialsculptures.com - Original Message - From: Patrick Powers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sundial@rrz.uni-koeln.de Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 1:09 PM Subject: time scale labels Message text written by INTERNET:sundial@rrz.uni-koeln.de My question is whether or not it would be acceptable to actually label each scale Standard Time or Daylight Saving Time You can do whatever you like - you are the designer! If nothing else you will generate a discussion between other 'anoraks' like the rest of us! However, if you worry about the 'purity' aspect and since you have already corrected for longitude, you could use the phrases 'Standard Solar Time' and 'Daylight Saving Solar Time'. Then mark your EoT graph as providing the correction from 'Solar Time' to 'Mean Time'. Hope this helps Patrick - E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Patrick_Powers/ Lat: N 51d. 49m. 09s: Long: W 00d. 21m. 53s - -
Re: time scale labels
My question is whether or not it would be acceptable to actually label each scale Standard Time or Daylight Saving Time so that casual observers would be able to tell which one to use for the appropriate time of the year. My 'tuppence' worth, which doesn't precisely meet Jim's need, is a 'Lelievre Dial' which I made last year. I modified Steve's brilliant DeltaCad code to add a 'Standard Time' scale on the inner edge and a 'Daylight Savings Time' on the outer. For simplicity's sake, all numbers were Roman. Because the Lelievre dial incorporates both the EoT and Longitude correction into the dial face, the labels in this case are correct. (I can send a .pdf (c. 300k) of the dial to anyone who's interested). Peter -- -- Peter Mayer | [EMAIL PROTECTED] Politics Department | University of Adelaide | 'phone:+61.8 8303 5606/5610 Adelaide, SA 5005 | FAX: (+61.8) 8303 3446 AUSTRALIA | -- -
Fw: FinePrint Software Newsletter
Hello All Many of us communcate with each other using the wonderful PDF format for all our documents. My clients love it because it is easily opened with Adobe Acrobat Reader. But many people complain that they don't know how to make them. I use this inexpensive easy-to-use program available at www.fineprint.com They just sent me their newsletter which you will find helpful if you need a PDF writing program. (see below) John John L. Carmichael Jr. Sundial Sculptures 925 E. Foothills Dr. Tucson Arizona 85718 USA Tel: 520-696-1709 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Website: http://www.sundialsculptures.com - Original Message - From: Jonathan Weiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: fineprint-announce [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 12:17 PM Subject: FinePrint Software Newsletter -- FinePrint Announcement Hello FinePrint and pdfFactory users, Our last email to you was in December, 2001 when we released pdfFactory Pro. Since then, we have been hard at work refining both pdfFactory and FinePrint. pdfFactory Pro has a new bookmark feature which we are very excited about. The bookmark feature utilizes the bookmark pane in Adobe Acrobat Reader to make navigating documents easier. pdfFactory Pro has three bookmarks modes: 1. table of contents mode - uses bookmarks to allow creation of complex tables of contents based on the text sytles used in a document. This feature is similar the table of contents feature found in Microsoft Word. pdfFactory Pro can generate a table of contents for ANY document based on the text styles within it. 2. job mode - adds a bookmark for each print job in the PDF. This allows PDFs to be used as navigable generic document containers, similar in size and function to a ZIP file. 3. manual mode - allows bookmarks to be manually created by selecting the page to be bookmarked in the pdfFactory preview. With FinePrint, we have been working on improved reliability with applications and with all of the various Windows platforms. Among the recent improvements in FinePrint are: - better bitmap imaging - improved terminal server/citrix support - support for hardware copies on printers that support it - better support for Postscript printers Look for a major upgrade to FinePrint later this year! Registered users of FinePrint and pdfFactory may use the latest releases for FREE. You may download the latest releases at www.fineprint.com. Just install over your current version and your registration will remain intact. If you are using the Enterprise versions and want to download, click the Product link and then Enterprise Edition link. If you are registered user of the standard pdfFactory (not Pro), you can upgrade to pdfFactory Pro for $50. pdfFactory Pro contains the bookmark feature mentioned above as well as full security options and live URLs. Information about upgrading can be found here: http://www.fineprint.com/support/upgrade.html As always, we appreciate your continued support of our products. We value your comments so please send them to us. Jonathan Weiner Mark O'Brien FinePrint Software To unsubscribe from the mailing list: Send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] from the account you want to remove from the list. You will receive an email confirming your action from the FinePrint email list server. - To unsubscribe send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -
