Re: NBA.com home page's link header not working in SeaMonkey v2.0.2 Linux?

[Ant]

On 2/4/2010 8:15 AM PT, NoOp typed:


Is anyone, with Linux's SeaMonkey v2.0.2 (upgraded from v2.0.0's
.tar.bz2), having problems with NBA.com home page's header links (News,
Scores&  Schedules, Video, Players, Standings, etc.)? They do not show
pulldown menus and are not clickable.

They work fine in my updated Windows XP Pro. SP3 and 64-bit W7 HP (Dell
OEM) machines.


Confirmed...

Don't work:
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.2) Gecko/20100115 Firefox/3.

Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7)
Gecko/20100130 Lightning/1.0b1 SeaMonkey/2.0.2

Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.1.23) Gecko/20090823
SeaMonkey/1.1.18

Work:
Epipany Web Browser 2.28.0

Opera
Version
10.10
Build
4742
Platform
Linux
System
i686, 2.6.31-18-generic

You might want to drop them a note:
http://www.nba.com/help/site_faq.html

What browsers do you support?

NBA.com takes advantage of the latest in browser technology, so for the
best experience, we recommend upgrading your browser as new versions of
your browser become available. NBA.com uses tables, frames, animated
GIFs, Java, and many HTML 3.0 extensions, as well as HTML forms for
things like contests, polls, and surveys. We use both GIF files and
JPEGs for in-line images. We also use audio and video clips extensively.
Thus, if your browser does not support aligned imbedded tables, forms,
or external viewers, you will not be able to fully enjoy the features
and design NBA.com has to offer. For best results, we recommend that you
use Microsoft Internet Explorer 7, Apple Safari, or Mozilla Firefox.


And file a bug: Help|Report Broken Website


Done! Did you report it too? Now, will they reply and/or fix the problem? :(
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Time-Out Settings?

[Cedar]

I'm just taking a wild guess here!  Is there such a thing as a time-out 
setting for SM (or FF, for that matter), that would tell the browser to 
keep looking for a website for a longer time before telling me to "try 
again", etc., etc.?  Is that what a time-out even is?  If there is such 
a changeable setting, where could it be found?

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Re: Goodbye Seamonkey

[Rufus]

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 10-02-05 12:06 AM, Rufus wrote:

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 10-02-04 11:50 PM, Rufus wrote:

...funny you should say. I said something very similar about
"workarounds" requiring the user to fiddle around with about:config and
pretty much got crapped all over by some members of the SM team.

Yes - I agree with you. A user should not have to do what I describe if
there is a true desire on behalf of the product to provide an ability
for the user to be able to perform that function regularly - the
capability should be provided within the SM interface.

But you asked me IF and HOW I did it, not how I thought it should be
done.


Yes, I had to ask you. It's not something you've ever suggested
without being asked.


Agreed. So I just gave a straight forward answer to a straight forward
question...


Do you understand the point I was making?



No, actually.  I did read the link asking about user work habits...which 
made me wonder if you were looking for answers in that vein.


Most of my suggestions have been ignored or shot down (like with the 
small buttons - where I've even been quoted in a bug report)...so I've 
stopped spontaneously suggesting.  But I'll still answer a question.  It 
was an honest question.  If you'd also asked me for a suggestion, I'd 
have offered one.


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Re: Goodbye Seamonkey

[Rufus]

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 10-02-04 11:59 PM, Rufus wrote:

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 10-02-04 3:46 PM, Rufus wrote:
...so then, there aren't really any "volunteers"? I'm having a real 
hrad

time grasping this business model...or understanding how this "company"
could be organized. If it is...


That's because you're viewing it as all or nothing. Most contributors
are volunteers. Development (and most other things at Mozilla) are
done in the open, and available for anyone to participate. If the
Mozilla Corporation or Mozilla Messaging decide that they need someone
to work full-time on something, they try to hire them.



Where I get confused is that I read a lot of posts here that fall back
on - "but we're just all volunteers, the other guys are paid"...which
comes off sounding like I should expect less.

What I really think is that everyone involved is equally competent -
paid or not. And when things all start looking the same or similar
between products, it starts looking like you are all working together in
any event. So...just what should I expect?


SeaMonkey uses some code that is shared, but the stuff that is specific 
to SeaMonkey is all volunteers (AFAIK). And volunteers usually have a 
day job, meaning that time to work on the product is part-time.




Yeah...that I get.  Just can't tell which code, not being a coder...can 
only make guesses based on similarities.


Right now, it seems that the SeaMonkey-specific work is less hours than 
the work specific to Firefox or Thunderbird, so expect less. But also 
remember that it is open source. If someone wants to help, they can.


...not so sure I'd want to expect "less" of the SM team.  Maybe they 
have a bit less to do right now, but I do expect "different" - that's 
why I have used SM.


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Re: Goodbye Seamonkey

[Chris Ilias]

On 10-02-04 11:59 PM, Rufus wrote:

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 10-02-04 3:46 PM, Rufus wrote:

...so then, there aren't really any "volunteers"? I'm having a real hrad
time grasping this business model...or understanding how this "company"
could be organized. If it is...


That's because you're viewing it as all or nothing. Most contributors
are volunteers. Development (and most other things at Mozilla) are
done in the open, and available for anyone to participate. If the
Mozilla Corporation or Mozilla Messaging decide that they need someone
to work full-time on something, they try to hire them.



Where I get confused is that I read a lot of posts here that fall back
on - "but we're just all volunteers, the other guys are paid"...which
comes off sounding like I should expect less.

What I really think is that everyone involved is equally competent -
paid or not. And when things all start looking the same or similar
between products, it starts looking like you are all working together in
any event. So...just what should I expect?


SeaMonkey uses some code that is shared, but the stuff that is specific 
to SeaMonkey is all volunteers (AFAIK). And volunteers usually have a 
day job, meaning that time to work on the product is part-time.


Right now, it seems that the SeaMonkey-specific work is less hours than 
the work specific to Firefox or Thunderbird, so expect less. But also 
remember that it is open source. If someone wants to help, they can.

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Re: Goodbye Seamonkey

[Chris Ilias]

On 10-02-05 12:06 AM, Rufus wrote:

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 10-02-04 11:50 PM, Rufus wrote:

...funny you should say. I said something very similar about
"workarounds" requiring the user to fiddle around with about:config and
pretty much got crapped all over by some members of the SM team.

Yes - I agree with you. A user should not have to do what I describe if
there is a true desire on behalf of the product to provide an ability
for the user to be able to perform that function regularly - the
capability should be provided within the SM interface.

But you asked me IF and HOW I did it, not how I thought it should be
done.


Yes, I had to ask you. It's not something you've ever suggested
without being asked.


Agreed. So I just gave a straight forward answer to a straight forward
question...


Do you understand the point I was making?

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Re: Goodbye Seamonkey

[Rufus]

»Q« wrote:

In ,
Rufus  wrote:


»Q« wrote:

In ,
Rufus  wrote:


...ok, so now we're lead back to "code sharing" and "conspiracy 
theories"...which is it?  

How do we keep getting back here?  I can't tell what conspiracy
theories you're talking about. 
In that between Mozilla, Fire Fox, Goggle Chrome, Camino, Safari, et. 
al. there are SO many things that look the same and/or function the 
same.  Which leads to the thought that many of these people are 
obviously cooperating and collaborating.


I don't see any evidence to support a conspiracy theory, just as I
don't when I notice Chevrolets that look a lot like Fords.



...ok...I'll drop "conspiracy" for "collaboration".  If it's all open, 
I'd expect some "collaboration", and it's not like that's 
"wrong"...unless variety and options start vanishing.



Also, as you're using a Mac, most browser vendors try to make their
products follow Mac interface guidelines, which makes them look more
similar than they otherwise would.



But now they seem to be doing that for PC graphics too...like the new 
Default theme.  Just being economical?



AFAIK, SeaMonkey doesn't generate any revenue.  Remember that what
kicked off this part of the thread was Phil noting that SeaMonkey
team cannot afford to hire people.
Yes - and that's my point.  Mozilla, Fire Fox, Goggle Chrome, Camino, 
Safari, et. al. don't generate any revenue either - in that they are 
give aways.  In the case of Google and Apple, they have corporate 
revenue streams and existing hires...so just what else does

Mozilla-corp DO that allows them to pay people, and why doesn't the SM
team do that?


I'm giving up on your questions about how Mozilla generates revenue,
since I don't think I could possibly make it clearer than the web pages
you've already read.  And without that, I don't know how to get into
your other questions.



Actually, someone else got me clued.  Just took the long way there.

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Re: Goodbye Seamonkey

[Rufus]

Philip Chee wrote:

On Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:04:12 -0600, »Q« wrote:

In ,
Rufus  wrote:


...ok, so now we're lead back to "code sharing" and "conspiracy 
theories"...which is it?  

How do we keep getting back here?  I can't tell what conspiracy
theories you're talking about.


He could tell you, but then he would have to kill you.

Phil



...not without enlisting some help...I mean...if I really wanted it to 
be a "conspiracy"...


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Re: Goodbye Seamonkey

[Rufus]

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 10-02-04 11:50 PM, Rufus wrote:

...funny you should say. I said something very similar about
"workarounds" requiring the user to fiddle around with about:config and
pretty much got crapped all over by some members of the SM team.

Yes - I agree with you. A user should not have to do what I describe if
there is a true desire on behalf of the product to provide an ability
for the user to be able to perform that function regularly - the
capability should be provided within the SM interface.

But you asked me IF and HOW I did it, not how I thought it should be 
done.


Yes, I had to ask you. It's not something you've ever suggested without 
being asked.


Agreed.  So I just gave a straight forward answer to a straight forward 
question...


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Re: Goodbye Seamonkey

[Rufus]

Philip Chee wrote:

On Thu, 04 Feb 2010 12:46:35 -0800, Rufus wrote:

...so then, there aren't really any "volunteers"?  I'm having a real 
hrad time grasping this business model...or understanding how this 
"company" could be organized.  If it is...


I really want to teach you to fish so I suggest that you google for the
phrase "hybrid organizations" or "hybrid organizations mozilla".

For a bonus of 10, google for "micro-internationals".

Phil



I'm starting to get the picture...I think.  Now I'm just trying to 
understand the methodology.


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Re: Goodbye Seamonkey

[Rufus]

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 10-02-04 3:46 PM, Rufus wrote:

...so then, there aren't really any "volunteers"? I'm having a real hrad
time grasping this business model...or understanding how this "company"
could be organized. If it is...


That's because you're viewing it as all or nothing. Most contributors 
are volunteers. Development (and most other things at Mozilla) are done 
in the open, and available for anyone to participate. If the Mozilla 
Corporation or Mozilla Messaging decide that they need someone to work 
full-time on something, they try to hire them.




Where I get confused is that I read a lot of posts here that fall back 
on - "but we're just all volunteers, the other guys are paid"...which 
comes off sounding like I should expect less.


What I really think is that everyone involved is equally competent - 
paid or not.  And when things all start looking the same or similar 
between products, it starts looking like you are all working together in 
any event.  So...just what should I expect?


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Re: Goodbye Seamonkey

[Rufus]

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 10-02-04 11:44 PM, Rufus wrote:

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 10-02-04 3:57 PM, Rufus wrote:

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 10-02-04 6:30 AM, BJ wrote:

What the heck is a "User Experience person"? I mean, what do they
do all
day?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_experience_design
For instance, where should "Reply" and "Forward" buttons be?
Where should the 'new tab' button be?
When a download is finished, should we expect the user to open the
file? If so, there should be a way do that when the download is
finished.
Notice how new updates are only downloaded when you computer has been
idle for a certain amount of time? That a user experience thing.
I don't know if this has been implemented or not: If you open many
tabs at once, the tab that is displaying should load first.

The Firefox user experience team has a lot of their work documented at
.
For Thunderbird, there's .


Basically a user, who's "job" is to use the software and comment. 
Single

user - single point failure; in that you only get one opinion.


Note that the last word in the URL is "Design". ;-)
Also note that Firefox has a UX *team*.

Maybe I should have not cited examples, and placed more emphasis on
the wikipedia article.



..."test pilot"...very familiar with those...pretty much what I
described. Unless they're being unintentionally descriptive.


Looks like you read the wrong link. The wikipedia article is 
.




...ok - I've had psych study in human factors...why don't they just call 
it human factors?  Same basic skill sets required (the "see also"), with 
a bit of graphic design and marketing artistry thrown in.


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Re: Goodbye Seamonkey

[Chris Ilias]

On 10-02-04 11:50 PM, Rufus wrote:

...funny you should say. I said something very similar about
"workarounds" requiring the user to fiddle around with about:config and
pretty much got crapped all over by some members of the SM team.

Yes - I agree with you. A user should not have to do what I describe if
there is a true desire on behalf of the product to provide an ability
for the user to be able to perform that function regularly - the
capability should be provided within the SM interface.

But you asked me IF and HOW I did it, not how I thought it should be done.


Yes, I had to ask you. It's not something you've ever suggested without 
being asked.

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Re: Goodbye Seamonkey

[»Q«]

In ,
Rufus  wrote:

> »Q« wrote:
> > In ,
> > Rufus  wrote:

> >> ...ok, so now we're lead back to "code sharing" and "conspiracy 
> >> theories"...which is it?  
> > 
> > How do we keep getting back here?  I can't tell what conspiracy
> > theories you're talking about. 
> 
> In that between Mozilla, Fire Fox, Goggle Chrome, Camino, Safari, et. 
> al. there are SO many things that look the same and/or function the 
> same.  Which leads to the thought that many of these people are 
> obviously cooperating and collaborating.

I don't see any evidence to support a conspiracy theory, just as I
don't when I notice Chevrolets that look a lot like Fords.

Also, as you're using a Mac, most browser vendors try to make their
products follow Mac interface guidelines, which makes them look more
similar than they otherwise would.
 
> > AFAIK, SeaMonkey doesn't generate any revenue.  Remember that what
> > kicked off this part of the thread was Phil noting that SeaMonkey
> > team cannot afford to hire people.
> 
> Yes - and that's my point.  Mozilla, Fire Fox, Goggle Chrome, Camino, 
> Safari, et. al. don't generate any revenue either - in that they are 
> give aways.  In the case of Google and Apple, they have corporate 
> revenue streams and existing hires...so just what else does
> Mozilla-corp DO that allows them to pay people, and why doesn't the SM
> team do that?

I'm giving up on your questions about how Mozilla generates revenue,
since I don't think I could possibly make it clearer than the web pages
you've already read.  And without that, I don't know how to get into
your other questions.

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Re: Goodbye Seamonkey

[Philip Chee]

On Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:04:12 -0600, »Q« wrote:
> In ,
> Rufus  wrote:

>> ...ok, so now we're lead back to "code sharing" and "conspiracy 
>> theories"...which is it?  
> 
> How do we keep getting back here?  I can't tell what conspiracy
> theories you're talking about.

He could tell you, but then he would have to kill you.

Phil

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Re: Goodbye Seamonkey

[Chris Ilias]

On 10-02-04 3:46 PM, Rufus wrote:

...so then, there aren't really any "volunteers"? I'm having a real hrad
time grasping this business model...or understanding how this "company"
could be organized. If it is...


That's because you're viewing it as all or nothing. Most contributors 
are volunteers. Development (and most other things at Mozilla) are done 
in the open, and available for anyone to participate. If the Mozilla 
Corporation or Mozilla Messaging decide that they need someone to work 
full-time on something, they try to hire them.


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Re: Goodbye Seamonkey

[Rufus]

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 10-02-04 3:50 PM, Rufus wrote:

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 10-02-04 12:42 AM, Rufus wrote:

Well, to start with, your users are your best "user experience" people,
some seem to get that and some don't...


Okay, riddle me this: Do you back up your SeaMonkey data on a regular
basis? If so, how?


Only my Bookmarks file - there was a time when SM was losing Bookmarks.
I just duplicate the file and store it outside of my Profile.

On a Mac it's very easy to back up an entire Profile - I just drag and
drop it's entire contents onto another disk. If I need to reinstate that
profile, I delete the previous folder and let SM build a new default -
then I drop in the contents of my backup.

Dunno what you would do on a PC...


Do you expect most SeaMonkey users to know where their profile folder 
is? Should they have to know? Backing up your data is a common task, but 
we don't see many questions about it, because everyone is so used to the 
workaround.




...funny you should say.  I said something very similar about 
"workarounds" requiring the user to fiddle around with about:config and 
pretty much got crapped all over by some members of the SM team.


Yes - I agree with you.  A user should not have to do what I describe if 
there is a true desire on behalf of the product to provide an ability 
for the user to be able to perform that function regularly - the 
capability should be provided within the SM interface.


But you asked me IF and HOW I did it, not how I thought it should be done.

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Re: Goodbye Seamonkey

[Chris Ilias]

On 10-02-04 11:44 PM, Rufus wrote:

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 10-02-04 3:57 PM, Rufus wrote:

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 10-02-04 6:30 AM, BJ wrote:

What the heck is a "User Experience person"? I mean, what do they
do all
day?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_experience_design
For instance, where should "Reply" and "Forward" buttons be?
Where should the 'new tab' button be?
When a download is finished, should we expect the user to open the
file? If so, there should be a way do that when the download is
finished.
Notice how new updates are only downloaded when you computer has been
idle for a certain amount of time? That a user experience thing.
I don't know if this has been implemented or not: If you open many
tabs at once, the tab that is displaying should load first.

The Firefox user experience team has a lot of their work documented at
.
For Thunderbird, there's .


Basically a user, who's "job" is to use the software and comment. Single
user - single point failure; in that you only get one opinion.


Note that the last word in the URL is "Design". ;-)
Also note that Firefox has a UX *team*.

Maybe I should have not cited examples, and placed more emphasis on
the wikipedia article.



..."test pilot"...very familiar with those...pretty much what I
described. Unless they're being unintentionally descriptive.


Looks like you read the wrong link. The wikipedia article is 
.


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Re: Goodbye Seamonkey

[Philip Chee]

On Thu, 04 Feb 2010 12:46:35 -0800, Rufus wrote:

> ...so then, there aren't really any "volunteers"?  I'm having a real 
> hrad time grasping this business model...or understanding how this 
> "company" could be organized.  If it is...

I really want to teach you to fish so I suggest that you google for the
phrase "hybrid organizations" or "hybrid organizations mozilla".

For a bonus of 10, google for "micro-internationals".

Phil

-- 
Philip Chee , 
http://flashblock.mozdev.org/ http://xsidebar.mozdev.org
Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief,
oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.
[ ]My other vehicle is a Galaxy Class Starship ...
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Re: Goodbye Seamonkey

[Rufus]

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 10-02-04 3:57 PM, Rufus wrote:

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 10-02-04 6:30 AM, BJ wrote:
What the heck is a "User Experience person"? I mean, what do they do 
all

day?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_experience_design
For instance, where should "Reply" and "Forward" buttons be?
Where should the 'new tab' button be?
When a download is finished, should we expect the user to open the
file? If so, there should be a way do that when the download is 
finished.

Notice how new updates are only downloaded when you computer has been
idle for a certain amount of time? That a user experience thing.
I don't know if this has been implemented or not: If you open many
tabs at once, the tab that is displaying should load first.

The Firefox user experience team has a lot of their work documented at
.
For Thunderbird, there's .


Basically a user, who's "job" is to use the software and comment. Single
user - single point failure; in that you only get one opinion.


Note that the last word in the URL is "Design". ;-)
Also note that Firefox has a UX *team*.

Maybe I should have not cited examples, and placed more emphasis on the 
wikipedia article.




..."test pilot"...very familiar with those...pretty much what I 
described.  Unless they're being unintentionally descriptive.


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Re: Goodbye Seamonkey

[Chris Ilias]

On 10-02-04 3:50 PM, Rufus wrote:

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 10-02-04 12:42 AM, Rufus wrote:

Well, to start with, your users are your best "user experience" people,
some seem to get that and some don't...


Okay, riddle me this: Do you back up your SeaMonkey data on a regular
basis? If so, how?


Only my Bookmarks file - there was a time when SM was losing Bookmarks.
I just duplicate the file and store it outside of my Profile.

On a Mac it's very easy to back up an entire Profile - I just drag and
drop it's entire contents onto another disk. If I need to reinstate that
profile, I delete the previous folder and let SM build a new default -
then I drop in the contents of my backup.

Dunno what you would do on a PC...


Do you expect most SeaMonkey users to know where their profile folder 
is? Should they have to know? Backing up your data is a common task, but 
we don't see many questions about it, because everyone is so used to the 
workaround.


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Re: Goodbye Seamonkey

[Chris Ilias]

On 10-02-04 3:57 PM, Rufus wrote:

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 10-02-04 6:30 AM, BJ wrote:

What the heck is a "User Experience person"? I mean, what do they do all
day?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_experience_design
For instance, where should "Reply" and "Forward" buttons be?
Where should the 'new tab' button be?
When a download is finished, should we expect the user to open the
file? If so, there should be a way do that when the download is finished.
Notice how new updates are only downloaded when you computer has been
idle for a certain amount of time? That a user experience thing.
I don't know if this has been implemented or not: If you open many
tabs at once, the tab that is displaying should load first.

The Firefox user experience team has a lot of their work documented at
.
For Thunderbird, there's .


Basically a user, who's "job" is to use the software and comment. Single
user - single point failure; in that you only get one opinion.


Note that the last word in the URL is "Design". ;-)
Also note that Firefox has a UX *team*.

Maybe I should have not cited examples, and placed more emphasis on the 
wikipedia article.


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Re: Goodbye Seamonkey

[Rufus]

Phillip Jones wrote:

Rufus wrote:

Philip Chee wrote:

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 21:42:17 -0800, Rufus wrote:




I thought Mozilla was a open source project...did that stop?..which was
why I though everybody doing this stuff (other than Apple with Safari)
were "volunteers"...

...ok, so now we're lead back to "code sharing" and "conspiracy
theories"...which is it?  Mozilla "belongs" to Google?  Or gets paid by
them just because you can navigate to Google with them?  I still don't
get it.

I remember that the only add-on I've put into SM was to make Google my
default search engine...so somebody got paid and it's built in now?


Google pays Mozilla so much a hit when using Mozilla Browsers.

After the comments that Google Prez said which amounted Google could 
care less about Privacy and Security. And Asa comments recommending 
Mozilla Users use Bing  instead as a result of the comments. That might 
end in the future. It was reported in cNet and ZDnet just couple of 
weeks ago or so. Basically The Google Big wig said  privacy and security 
of the information they handle is not their responsibility.




...ok.  Now that at least is starting to make some sense...so in 
essence, Mozilla is a sub-contractor to Google and fuels it's business 
by facilitating it's ability to do business.  That I can see...


...and I remember those comments about security and can also see both 
sides of that argument - which would be the argument for using SM if it 
is more secure than another browser.


A circle-jerk, but some of that type of "bad press" that could benefit 
both in the long term.  Google would just be sub-contracting it's 
security concerns out to the Mozilla-corp to take care of, a savvy user 
base would choose it, and Moz-corp keeps ringing the cash 
register...incestuous, but profitable.


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Re: Goodbye Seamonkey

[Rufus]

»Q« wrote:

In ,
Rufus  wrote:


Philip Chee wrote:

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 21:42:17 -0800, Rufus wrote:


... but that's something you're going to have to explain to me -
all this "hired" vs "volunteer" stuff.  Who's who, and how are
they doing what?

http://www.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/about/staff/
http://www.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/about/board/
http://www.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/about/

Momo All-Hands 2009 (Meeting of Mozilla Messaging employees in
Vancouver, BC, Canada in August 2009)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lhirlimann/sets/72157622051379888/
...how do they make money?..just what is it that they sell? 
Advertising?..donations?..


Phil gave you links to read.



...yeah...I'm a bit more confused now that I've read them.


Seeing as all these apps are free, I've been assuming that
everyone is a "volunteer".  So, just who is paying the "hired
guns", how do they make enough money on a free product to get
paid, and just why and what keeps it all free?

Dude, never heard of google?

State of Mozilla and 2008 Financial Statements
http://blog.lizardwrangler.com/2009/11/19/state-of-mozilla-and-2008/

Checking in on Mozilla's Financial Health
http://ostatic.org/blog/checking-in-on-mozillas-financial-health

Much of the money Mozilla makes in profit comes from a Google
search deal.
http://www.itpro.co.uk/617977/mozilla-reliant-on-google-for-cash

Mozilla: Still too dependent on Google for revenue; Can it
diversify? http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=27670

I thought Mozilla was a open source project...did that stop?


No.



...then "why" are people getting paid?


..which was why I though everybody doing this stuff (other than Apple
with Safari) were "volunteers"...


Safari isn't open source, but large parts of it are.  People get paid
to work on lots of F/LOSS projects.



Yes - that I understand.  But I also understand that Apple does a lot of 
other things which allow it to exist as a corporation.  Just what else 
is it that the Mozilla team do?


...ok, so now we're lead back to "code sharing" and "conspiracy 
theories"...which is it?  


How do we keep getting back here?  I can't tell what conspiracy
theories you're talking about.



In that between Mozilla, Fire Fox, Goggle Chrome, Camino, Safari, et. 
al. there are SO many things that look the same and/or function the 
same.  Which leads to the thought that many of these people are 
obviously cooperating and collaborating.


My previous assumption was that only the Google and Apple teams were 
"paid professionals" and that the SM team are all "volunteer 
professionals" or "amateurs"...but if all pf these people are all 
working together and following each other around...what's the big diff 
between one set and the other then?



Mozilla "belongs" to Google?  Or gets paid by them just because you
can navigate to Google with them?  I still don't get it.


Philip gave you links to read.



...and I'm further confused by them...I don't don't get what this 
"company" does to stay solvent.  Other than act like an "all volunteer" 
entity...that accepts money...



I remember that the only add-on I've put into SM was to make Google
my default search engine...so somebody got paid and it's built in now?


AFAIK, SeaMonkey doesn't generate any revenue.  Remember that what
kicked off this part of the thread was Phil noting that SeaMonkey team
cannot afford to hire people.



Yes - and that's my point.  Mozilla, Fire Fox, Goggle Chrome, Camino, 
Safari, et. al. don't generate any revenue either - in that they are 
give aways.  In the case of Google and Apple, they have corporate 
revenue streams and existing hires...so just what else does Mozilla-corp 
DO that allows them to pay people, and why doesn't the SM team do that?


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Re: Goodbye Seamonkey

[Rufus]

S. Beaulieu wrote:

Rufus a écrit :

On a Mac it's very easy to back up an entire Profile - I just drag and
drop it's entire contents onto another disk. If I need to reinstate that
profile, I delete the previous folder and let SM build a new default -
then I drop in the contents of my backup.

Dunno what you would do on a PC...



I'm on Windows and do exactly the same thing, except I don't even bother 
creating a new default: I just drop the profile where it should be and 
that's it. It even worked when I switched from Win2K to Win7.


S.


I don't really know if I "have" to do that or not...but it does create a 
new default folder name for the Profile, and I feel more comfortable 
with that.


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Re: Help Test Autofill Forms 0.9.5.2 Mod for SeaMonkey 2.0!

[Phillip Jones]

Graham wrote:

Phillip Jones wrote:

Just had opportunity today to try it. failed. I even clicked the button,
it added to ToolBar.


Fail? Why is that a fail? Sure, it adds a button to the toolbar, but
that's not all of it (and you can remove that button).


It failed in that it didn't fill out a Form. Yes I am smart enough to 
fill out the items to be filled in. I noted in a Previous post  a fill 
in item for Fax , phone 2 and Cell phone was missing. I bought a 
download copy Spring Cleaning and needed to fill out a form  the only 
thing it actually filled in was email address. Nothing else was filled 
in I had to do manually.


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Re: Help Test Autofill Forms 0.9.5.2 Mod for SeaMonkey 2.0!

[Graham]

Phillip Jones wrote:

Just had opportunity today to try it. failed. I even clicked the button,
it added to ToolBar.


Fail? Why is that a fail? Sure, it adds a button to the toolbar, but 
that's not all of it (and you can remove that button).



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Re: Help Test Autofill Forms 0.9.5.2 Mod for SeaMonkey 2.0!

[Phillip Jones]

Evan Davidson wrote:

Philip Chee wrote:

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:51:09 +0100, Jens Hatlak wrote:

Philip Chee wrote:

I've just ported Autofill Forms to SeaMonkey 2.0. Before I push this
public I would like some brave souls to beta test this. I've gotten it
to install and the UI to show up and there are no obvious JS errors.
Since I don't normally auto-fill forms even with SeaMonkey 1.1 I haven't
tested that it actually fills in forms at all.

I haven't tested extensively either but it seems to do the job. Installs
fine, the toolbar button is there after the restart and works, settings
are accessible and appear to work, saving a form and letting SM fill one
in using a saved profile works, too. The context menu entries do as
advertised as well. Good job! :-)

Now where are all those people screaming around time and again,
demanding "bring back form manager"? It'll be interesting to see what
they say, or if they react at all to this. Anyway, thanks for your efforts!


Yeah yeah. I was getting sick and tired of all those people saying that
they were moving to MSIE because SeaMonkey 2.0 doesn't have a Forms
autofill/autocomplete manager. So I went and grabbed Autofill Forms and
ported it to SeaMonkey 2.0. I also fixed some UI problems it had with
Firefox 3.5/3.6 (It hasn't been updated since 2008; a testimony to the
quality of the code is that it still works fine in Firefox 3.6).

Phil



Phil,

FYI: Fireform-0.5.0-mod on your website,
http://xsidebar.mozdev.org/modifiedmisc.html#fireform , works on
SeaMonkey 2.0.x. (From what I can tell, it's pretty similar to Autofill
Forms 0.9.5.2 which I use on Firefox 3.6.) I've been using FireForm on
SeaMonkey 2.0.x for months with no problems.


Just had opportunity today to try it. failed. I even clicked the button, 
it added to ToolBar.


--
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Re: Goodbye Seamonkey

[Phillip Jones]

Rufus wrote:

Philip Chee wrote:

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 21:42:17 -0800, Rufus wrote:


... but that's something you're going to have to explain to me - all
this "hired" vs "volunteer" stuff.  Who's who, and how are they doing what?


http://www.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/about/staff/
http://www.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/about/board/
http://www.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/about/

Momo All-Hands 2009 (Meeting of Mozilla Messaging employees in
Vancouver, BC, Canada in August 2009)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lhirlimann/sets/72157622051379888/



...how do they make money?..just what is it that they sell?
Advertising?..donations?..


Seeing as all these apps are free, I've been assuming that everyone is a
"volunteer".  So, just who is paying the "hired guns", how do they make
enough money on a free product to get paid, and just why and what keeps
it all free?


Dude, never heard of google?

State of Mozilla and 2008 Financial Statements
http://blog.lizardwrangler.com/2009/11/19/state-of-mozilla-and-2008/

Checking in on Mozilla's Financial Health
http://ostatic.org/blog/checking-in-on-mozillas-financial-health

Much of the money Mozilla makes in profit comes from a Google search deal.
http://www.itpro.co.uk/617977/mozilla-reliant-on-google-for-cash

Mozilla: Still too dependent on Google for revenue; Can it diversify?
http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=27670

Phil



I thought Mozilla was a open source project...did that stop?..which was
why I though everybody doing this stuff (other than Apple with Safari)
were "volunteers"...

...ok, so now we're lead back to "code sharing" and "conspiracy
theories"...which is it?  Mozilla "belongs" to Google?  Or gets paid by
them just because you can navigate to Google with them?  I still don't
get it.

I remember that the only add-on I've put into SM was to make Google my
default search engine...so somebody got paid and it's built in now?


Google pays Mozilla so much a hit when using Mozilla Browsers.

After the comments that Google Prez said which amounted Google could 
care less about Privacy and Security. And Asa comments recommending 
Mozilla Users use Bing  instead as a result of the comments. That might 
end in the future. It was reported in cNet and ZDnet just couple of 
weeks ago or so. Basically The Google Big wig said  privacy and security 
of the information they handle is not their responsibility.


--
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http://www.phillipmjones.net   http://www.vpea.org
mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com
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Re: Printing passwords in V 2

[Evan Davidson]

Also note on Ed Mullen's website ( 
http://edmullen.net/mozilla/moz_pw.php ) in Item 5, he gives a colorful 
version of the Firefox 3 and Seamonkey 2 password list in the last 
paragraph with the "this version" link.


Again, you have to do a "Save link as" to download the file. When you 
open it in you browser, you get the table.

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Re: Help Test Autofill Forms 0.9.5.2 Mod for SeaMonkey 2.0!

[Evan Davidson]

Philip Chee wrote:

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:51:09 +0100, Jens Hatlak wrote:

Philip Chee wrote:

I've just ported Autofill Forms to SeaMonkey 2.0. Before I push this
public I would like some brave souls to beta test this. I've gotten it
to install and the UI to show up and there are no obvious JS errors.
Since I don't normally auto-fill forms even with SeaMonkey 1.1 I haven't
tested that it actually fills in forms at all.

I haven't tested extensively either but it seems to do the job. Installs
fine, the toolbar button is there after the restart and works, settings
are accessible and appear to work, saving a form and letting SM fill one
in using a saved profile works, too. The context menu entries do as
advertised as well. Good job! :-)

Now where are all those people screaming around time and again,
demanding "bring back form manager"? It'll be interesting to see what
they say, or if they react at all to this. Anyway, thanks for your efforts!


Yeah yeah. I was getting sick and tired of all those people saying that
they were moving to MSIE because SeaMonkey 2.0 doesn't have a Forms
autofill/autocomplete manager. So I went and grabbed Autofill Forms and
ported it to SeaMonkey 2.0. I also fixed some UI problems it had with
Firefox 3.5/3.6 (It hasn't been updated since 2008; a testimony to the
quality of the code is that it still works fine in Firefox 3.6).

Phil



Phil,

FYI: Fireform-0.5.0-mod on your website, 
http://xsidebar.mozdev.org/modifiedmisc.html#fireform , works on 
Seamonkey 2.0.x. (From what I can tell, it's pretty similar to Autofill 
Forms 0.9.5.2 which I use on Firefox 3.6.) I've been using FireForm on 
Seamonkey 2.0.x for months with no problems.

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Re: Goodbye Seamonkey

[Leonidas Jones]

Rufus wrote:

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 10-02-04 12:42 AM, Rufus wrote:

Well, to start with, your users are your best "user experience" people,
some seem to get that and some don't...


Okay, riddle me this: Do you back up your SeaMonkey data on a regular
basis? If so, how?



Only my Bookmarks file - there was a time when SM was losing Bookmarks.
I just duplicate the file and store it outside of my Profile.

On a Mac it's very easy to back up an entire Profile - I just drag and
drop it's entire contents onto another disk. If I need to reinstate that
profile, I delete the previous folder and let SM build a new default -
then I drop in the contents of my backup.

Dunno what you would do on a PC...



Check the UA, Chris is on  Mac, has been for quite a while now.

Lee
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Re: Strange Characters

[»Q«]

In ,
"David E. Ross"  wrote:

> On 2/4/2010 10:32 AM, Hartmut Figge wrote:
> > David E. Ross:
> > 
> >> See the sencond entry at ,
> >> the one for "Thu 11:10am".  This is from a Yahoo Finance page.
> > 
> > URL?
> 
> In a slightly different format but still showing the problem:
> 

The Minyanville site is using ISO-8859-1.  Yahoo! is using UTF-8.  When
Yahoo! sucks in the headline from minyanville.com, Yahoo! should be
converting the characters to UTF-8.  Instead, Yahoo! is making garbage
of them -- what shows up at Yahoo! is neither a proper UTF-8 nor a
proper ISO-8859-1 representation of the quote marks.

AFAIK, there's nothing you can do about this except wait for Yahoo! to
possibly fix it someday.

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Re: Strange Characters

[Hartmut Figge]

David E. Ross:
>On 2/4/2010 10:32 AM, Hartmut Figge wrote:

>> URL?
>
>In a slightly different format but still showing the problem:
>

I can see the problem.
http://www.triffids.de/pub/screenshot/ya100204.png (24 KB)

W3C shows some errors but the real problem in this case could be, that
the strange characters are no real utf-8 characters. No proof, though,
because the content has changed before i saved the the old one.

>However, this is a transient, frequently-updated page and might not show
>the problem when you go there.

Yes. *g*

>>> I see similar representations on other Web pages. 
>> 
>> URL?
>
>Generally, they require logging-on to my various accounts.  Sorry, but I
>won't disclose my IDs or passwords.

Understandable.

Hartmut
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Re: Goodbye Seamonkey

[»Q«]

In ,
Rufus  wrote:

> Philip Chee wrote:
> > On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 21:42:17 -0800, Rufus wrote:
> > 
> >> ... but that's something you're going to have to explain to me -
> >> all this "hired" vs "volunteer" stuff.  Who's who, and how are
> >> they doing what?
> > 
> > http://www.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/about/staff/
> > http://www.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/about/board/
> > http://www.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/about/
> > 
> > Momo All-Hands 2009 (Meeting of Mozilla Messaging employees in
> > Vancouver, BC, Canada in August 2009)
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/lhirlimann/sets/72157622051379888/
> 
> ...how do they make money?..just what is it that they sell? 
> Advertising?..donations?..

Phil gave you links to read.

> >> Seeing as all these apps are free, I've been assuming that
> >> everyone is a "volunteer".  So, just who is paying the "hired
> >> guns", how do they make enough money on a free product to get
> >> paid, and just why and what keeps it all free?
> > 
> > Dude, never heard of google?
> > 
> > State of Mozilla and 2008 Financial Statements
> > http://blog.lizardwrangler.com/2009/11/19/state-of-mozilla-and-2008/
> > 
> > Checking in on Mozilla's Financial Health
> > http://ostatic.org/blog/checking-in-on-mozillas-financial-health
> > 
> > Much of the money Mozilla makes in profit comes from a Google
> > search deal.
> > http://www.itpro.co.uk/617977/mozilla-reliant-on-google-for-cash
> > 
> > Mozilla: Still too dependent on Google for revenue; Can it
> > diversify? http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=27670
> 
> I thought Mozilla was a open source project...did that stop?

No.

> ..which was why I though everybody doing this stuff (other than Apple
> with Safari) were "volunteers"...

Safari isn't open source, but large parts of it are.  People get paid
to work on lots of F/LOSS projects.

> ...ok, so now we're lead back to "code sharing" and "conspiracy 
> theories"...which is it?  

How do we keep getting back here?  I can't tell what conspiracy
theories you're talking about.

> Mozilla "belongs" to Google?  Or gets paid by them just because you
> can navigate to Google with them?  I still don't get it.

Philip gave you links to read.

> I remember that the only add-on I've put into SM was to make Google
> my default search engine...so somebody got paid and it's built in now?

AFAIK, SeaMonkey doesn't generate any revenue.  Remember that what
kicked off this part of the thread was Phil noting that SeaMonkey team
cannot afford to hire people.

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Re: Strange Characters

[David E. Ross]

On 2/4/2010 1:00 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
> On 2/4/2010 10:32 AM, Hartmut Figge wrote:
>> David E. Ross:
>>
>>> See the sencond entry at , the
>>> one for "Thu 11:10am".  This is from a Yahoo Finance page.
>>
>> URL?
> 
> In a slightly different format but still showing the problem:
> 
> 
> However, this is a transient, frequently-updated page and might not show
> the problem when you go there.
> 
>>> I see similar representations on other Web pages. 
>>
>> URL?
> 
> Generally, they require logging-on to my various accounts.  Sorry, but I
> won't disclose my IDs or passwords.
> 
>> Hartmut
> 
> 

The page at the finance.yahoo.com URI has Content-Type: text/html;
charset=utf-8 and Encoding: UTF-8.

Going to the link at the entry with the problem characters, I do not see
the problem.  Instead, I see the so-called smart quotes.  That page has
no specified Content-Type and Encoding: ISO-8859-1.

Both pages are Quirks mode.

-- 
David E. Ross


Go to Mozdev at  for quick access to
extensions for Firefox, Thunderbird, SeaMonkey, and other
Mozilla-related applications.  You can access Mozdev much
more quickly than you can Mozilla Add-Ons.
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Re: Strange Characters

[David E. Ross]

On 2/4/2010 10:32 AM, Hartmut Figge wrote:
> David E. Ross:
> 
>> See the sencond entry at , the
>> one for "Thu 11:10am".  This is from a Yahoo Finance page.
> 
> URL?

In a slightly different format but still showing the problem:


However, this is a transient, frequently-updated page and might not show
the problem when you go there.

>> I see similar representations on other Web pages. 
> 
> URL?

Generally, they require logging-on to my various accounts.  Sorry, but I
won't disclose my IDs or passwords.

> Hartmut


-- 
David E. Ross


Go to Mozdev at  for quick access to
extensions for Firefox, Thunderbird, SeaMonkey, and other
Mozilla-related applications.  You can access Mozdev much
more quickly than you can Mozilla Add-Ons.
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Re: Goodbye Seamonkey

[Rufus]

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 10-02-04 6:30 AM, BJ wrote:

What the heck is a "User Experience person"? I mean, what do they do all
day?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_experience_design
For instance, where should "Reply" and "Forward" buttons be?
Where should the 'new tab' button be?
When a download is finished, should we expect the user to open the file? 
If so, there should be a way do that when the download is finished.
Notice how new updates are only downloaded when you computer has been 
idle for a certain amount of time? That a user experience thing.
I don't know if this has been implemented or not: If you open many tabs 
at once, the tab that is displaying should load first.


The Firefox user experience team has a lot of their work documented at 
.

For Thunderbird, there's .



Basically a user, who's "job" is to use the software and comment. 
Single user - single point failure; in that you only get one opinion.


We (my company) do much the same, except we call boards of users 
together for what we call "design advisory group" meetings for new 
functions and major changes - sometimes quarterly, depending on the change.


This forum would fully support that sort of purpose, if the SM team 
would develop a plan to listen to and rank user feedback (even on a 
specified schedule) and then chart that feedback into a road map for 
implementation.


...then they could fire the other guy.

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Re: Goodbye Seamonkey

[S. Beaulieu]

Rufus a écrit :

On a Mac it's very easy to back up an entire Profile - I just drag and
drop it's entire contents onto another disk. If I need to reinstate that
profile, I delete the previous folder and let SM build a new default -
then I drop in the contents of my backup.

Dunno what you would do on a PC...



I'm on Windows and do exactly the same thing, except I don't even bother 
creating a new default: I just drop the profile where it should be and 
that's it. It even worked when I switched from Win2K to Win7.


S.
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Re: Goodbye Seamonkey

[Rufus]

Chris Ilias wrote:

On 10-02-04 12:42 AM, Rufus wrote:

Well, to start with, your users are your best "user experience" people,
some seem to get that and some don't...


Okay, riddle me this: Do you back up your SeaMonkey data on a regular 
basis? If so, how?




Only my Bookmarks file - there was a time when SM was losing Bookmarks. 
  I just duplicate the file and store it outside of my Profile.


On a Mac it's very easy to back up an entire Profile - I just drag and 
drop it's entire contents onto another disk.  If I need to reinstate 
that profile, I delete the previous folder and let SM build a new 
default - then I drop in the contents of my backup.


Dunno what you would do on a PC...

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Re: Goodbye Seamonkey

[Rufus]

Jay Garcia wrote:

On 03.02.2010 23:42, Rufus wrote:

 --- Original Message ---


Philip Chee wrote:

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:31:15 -0800, Rufus wrote:


Maybe that team has more Mac users on it or something, but from my Mac
user standpoint they got a lot of stuff right. Kudos to them.


Their team has at least two Mac users, one full time graphics designer,
and one full time professional User Experience person. I'm sure that if
SeaMonkey can afford to hire such people we could match Thunderbird in
Mac user experience pretty quickly.

Phil



Well, to start with, your users are your best "user experience" people,
some seem to get that and some don't...

... but that's something you're going to have to explain to me - all
this "hired" vs "volunteer" stuff. Who's who, and how are they doing 
what?


Seeing as all these apps are free, I've been assuming that everyone is a
"volunteer". So, just who is paying the "hired guns", how do they make
enough money on a free product to get paid, and just why and what keeps
it all free?



The "open source community" keeps it free and Mozilla Corporation pays 
it's staff via contributions, contracts and advertising.


http://blog.lizardwrangler.com/2009/11/19/state-of-mozilla-and-2008/



...so then, there aren't really any "volunteers"?  I'm having a real 
hrad time grasping this business model...or understanding how this 
"company" could be organized.  If it is...


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Re: Goodbye Seamonkey

[Rufus]

Philip Chee wrote:

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 21:42:17 -0800, Rufus wrote:

... but that's something you're going to have to explain to me - all 
this "hired" vs "volunteer" stuff.  Who's who, and how are they doing what?


http://www.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/about/staff/
http://www.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/about/board/
http://www.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/about/

Momo All-Hands 2009 (Meeting of Mozilla Messaging employees in
Vancouver, BC, Canada in August 2009)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lhirlimann/sets/72157622051379888/



...how do they make money?..just what is it that they sell? 
Advertising?..donations?..


Seeing as all these apps are free, I've been assuming that everyone is a 
"volunteer".  So, just who is paying the "hired guns", how do they make 
enough money on a free product to get paid, and just why and what keeps 
it all free?


Dude, never heard of google?

State of Mozilla and 2008 Financial Statements
http://blog.lizardwrangler.com/2009/11/19/state-of-mozilla-and-2008/

Checking in on Mozilla's Financial Health
http://ostatic.org/blog/checking-in-on-mozillas-financial-health

Much of the money Mozilla makes in profit comes from a Google search deal.
http://www.itpro.co.uk/617977/mozilla-reliant-on-google-for-cash

Mozilla: Still too dependent on Google for revenue; Can it diversify?
http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=27670

Phil



I thought Mozilla was a open source project...did that stop?..which was 
why I though everybody doing this stuff (other than Apple with Safari) 
were "volunteers"...


...ok, so now we're lead back to "code sharing" and "conspiracy 
theories"...which is it?  Mozilla "belongs" to Google?  Or gets paid by 
them just because you can navigate to Google with them?  I still don't 
get it.


I remember that the only add-on I've put into SM was to make Google my 
default search engine...so somebody got paid and it's built in now?


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Re: Goodbye Seamonkey

[Chris Ilias]

On 10-02-04 6:30 AM, BJ wrote:

What the heck is a "User Experience person"? I mean, what do they do all
day?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_experience_design
For instance, where should "Reply" and "Forward" buttons be?
Where should the 'new tab' button be?
When a download is finished, should we expect the user to open the file? 
If so, there should be a way do that when the download is finished.
Notice how new updates are only downloaded when you computer has been 
idle for a certain amount of time? That a user experience thing.
I don't know if this has been implemented or not: If you open many tabs 
at once, the tab that is displaying should load first.


The Firefox user experience team has a lot of their work documented at 
.

For Thunderbird, there's .

--
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List-owner: support-firefox, support-thunderbird, test-multimedia
Keeper of the Knowledge Base: 
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Re: Goodbye Seamonkey

[Chris Ilias]

On 10-02-04 12:42 AM, Rufus wrote:

Well, to start with, your users are your best "user experience" people,
some seem to get that and some don't...


Okay, riddle me this: Do you back up your SeaMonkey data on a regular 
basis? If so, how?


--
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List-owner: support-firefox, support-thunderbird, test-multimedia
Keeper of the Knowledge Base: 
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Re: Strange Characters

[Hartmut Figge]

David E. Ross:

>See the sencond entry at , the
>one for "Thu 11:10am".  This is from a Yahoo Finance page.

URL?

>I see similar representations on other Web pages. 

URL?

Hartmut
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Strange Characters

[David E. Ross]

See the sencond entry at , the
one for "Thu 11:10am".  This is from a Yahoo Finance page.

If they are not clear, the first box has 00 over 43; and the second box
has 00 over 44.  In front of each box, is what would be Å as an
HTML entiry reference.  I believe these are supposed to be what
Micro$oft calls "smart quotes".

I see similar representations on other Web pages.  What do I need to do
to my preferences to see the intended characters?

My configuration is:

Windows XP Home Edition 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2
800x600 screen, 32-bit true colors

SeaMonkey build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1;
en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100104 SeaMonkey/2.0.2

Extensions (enabled: 6)
* Adblock Plus 1.1.3 (http://adblockplus.org/)
* DOM Inspector 2.0.3 (http://www.mozilla.org/projects/inspector/)
* Flashblock 1.3.15 (http://flashblock.mozdev.org/)
* JavaScript Debugger 0.9.87.4 (http://www.hacksrus.com/~ginda/venkman/)
* PrefBar 5.0.1 (http://prefbar.mozdev.org/)
* Show Password On Input 0.1.3
(https://addons.mozilla.org/thunderbird/addon/6143/)

-- 
David E. Ross


Go to Mozdev at  for quick access to
extensions for Firefox, Thunderbird, SeaMonkey, and other
Mozilla-related applications.  You can access Mozdev much
more quickly than you can Mozilla Add-Ons.
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Re: Goodbye Seamonkey

[Philip Chee]

On Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:57:28 +0800, Philip Chee wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 21:42:17 -0800, Rufus wrote:
> 
>> ... but that's something you're going to have to explain to me - all 
>> this "hired" vs "volunteer" stuff.  Who's who, and how are they doing what?
> 
> http://www.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/about/staff/
> http://www.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/about/board/
> http://www.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/about/
> 
> Momo All-Hands 2009 (Meeting of Mozilla Messaging employees in
> Vancouver, BC, Canada in August 2009)
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lhirlimann/sets/72157622051379888/

Momo All - Hands January 2010
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lhirlimann/sets/72157623320352160/

Hem. I wonder how difficult it would be to con mozilla into paying for a
SeaMonkey all hands meeting (and my air-fare all the way from Asia).

Phil

-- 
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http://flashblock.mozdev.org/ http://xsidebar.mozdev.org
Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief,
oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.
[ ]Was Jimi Hendrix's modem a Purple Hayes?
* TagZilla 0.066.6

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Re: Spell-checker bugs in SM2

[S. Beaulieu]

David Wilkinson a écrit :


I don't think it is the dictionary, because the same word will sometimes be
flagged and sometimes not.




Good point!

S.
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Re: Spell-checker bugs in SM2

[David Wilkinson]

S. Beaulieu wrote:
> David Wilkinson a écrit :
>>
>> My spell-checker dictionary transferred successfully from SM1 but I
>> notice a
>> couple of problems:
> 
> Did you try reinstalling it? Maybe the version 1 dictionary isn't 100%
> compatible or got corrupted or something. You can uninstall it through
> Tools > Addons, which also allows you to download and install the
> dictionary anew.

I don't think it is the dictionary, because the same word will sometimes be
flagged and sometimes not.

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Re: Spell-checker bugs in SM2

[David Wilkinson]

David E. Ross wrote:
> On 2/3/2010 11:20 AM, David Wilkinson wrote [in part]:
>> Using SM2 on Windows 7 x64.
>>
>> My spell-checker dictionary transferred successfully from SM1 but I notice a
>> couple of problems:
>>
>> 1. Sometimes, mis-spelled words will be missed (no red underline). In another
>> situation, this same word will be caught. It happens often enough to be a 
>> real
>> nuisance. I do not remember this in SM1.
> 
> On the SeaMonkey menu bar, go to [Edit > Preferences].  Under "Category'
> on the Preferences window, select [Browser > Languages].  Look at the
> current selection for "When typing check my spelling".  You might have
> indicated "In multiline boxes", in which case there is no checking for
> spelling in a single-line box.  If that is the case, change the
> selection to "All boxes".

I have multi-line selected but the problems I see are all in multi-line boxes.
In a given box, some words are flagged and others are missed (but these same
missing words might be flagged in another case).

-- 
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Re: NBA.com home page's link header not working in SeaMonkey v2.0.2 Linux?

[NoOp]

On 02/03/2010 10:40 PM, Ant wrote:
> Hello.
> 
> Is anyone, with Linux's SeaMonkey v2.0.2 (upgraded from v2.0.0's 
> .tar.bz2), having problems with NBA.com home page's header links (News, 
> Scores & Schedules, Video, Players, Standings, etc.)? They do not show 
> pulldown menus and are not clickable.
> 
> They work fine in my updated Windows XP Pro. SP3 and 64-bit W7 HP (Dell 
> OEM) machines.

Confirmed...

Don't work:
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.2) Gecko/20100115 Firefox/3.

Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7)
Gecko/20100130 Lightning/1.0b1 SeaMonkey/2.0.2

Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.1.23) Gecko/20090823
SeaMonkey/1.1.18

Work:
Epipany Web Browser 2.28.0

Opera
Version
10.10
Build
4742
Platform
Linux
System
i686, 2.6.31-18-generic

You might want to drop them a note:
http://www.nba.com/help/site_faq.html

What browsers do you support?

NBA.com takes advantage of the latest in browser technology, so for the
best experience, we recommend upgrading your browser as new versions of
your browser become available. NBA.com uses tables, frames, animated
GIFs, Java, and many HTML 3.0 extensions, as well as HTML forms for
things like contests, polls, and surveys. We use both GIF files and
JPEGs for in-line images. We also use audio and video clips extensively.
Thus, if your browser does not support aligned imbedded tables, forms,
or external viewers, you will not be able to fully enjoy the features
and design NBA.com has to offer. For best results, we recommend that you
use Microsoft Internet Explorer 7, Apple Safari, or Mozilla Firefox.


And file a bug: Help|Report Broken Website
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Re: List of all preferences from pref.js

[David E. Ross]

On 2/4/2010 2:36 AM, Miro wrote:
> Hi!
> Is there somewhere available for download a list of all preferences (name, 
> type 
> and allowed valued) from pref.js (about:config) recognized (and respected) by 
> SM 2 in Linux?
> Or at least all preferences related to printer selection and printing.
> Thanks,
> Miro

Try any of the following:




I don't know how current any of those are, and there are some gaps.

I requested a dictionary of all preferences -- including Thunderbird,
Firefox, etc and not just SeaMonkey -- in bug #330858.  I thought it
would be equally valuable to both developers and users.  It got closed
as a duplicate of bug #178685, which would provide that information only
for developers.  "The powers that be" within the Mozilla organization
don't believe users can be trusted with such information.

See  and
.

-- 
David E. Ross


Go to Mozdev at  for quick access to
extensions for Firefox, Thunderbird, SeaMonkey, and other
Mozilla-related applications.  You can access Mozdev much
more quickly than you can Mozilla Add-Ons.
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Re: Goodbye Seamonkey

[Jay Garcia]

On 03.02.2010 23:42, Rufus wrote:

 --- Original Message ---


Philip Chee wrote:

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:31:15 -0800, Rufus wrote:


Maybe that team has more Mac users on it or something, but from my Mac
user standpoint they got a lot of stuff right. Kudos to them.


Their team has at least two Mac users, one full time graphics designer,
and one full time professional User Experience person. I'm sure that if
SeaMonkey can afford to hire such people we could match Thunderbird in
Mac user experience pretty quickly.

Phil



Well, to start with, your users are your best "user experience" people,
some seem to get that and some don't...

... but that's something you're going to have to explain to me - all
this "hired" vs "volunteer" stuff. Who's who, and how are they doing what?

Seeing as all these apps are free, I've been assuming that everyone is a
"volunteer". So, just who is paying the "hired guns", how do they make
enough money on a free product to get paid, and just why and what keeps
it all free?



The "open source community" keeps it free and Mozilla Corporation pays 
it's staff via contributions, contracts and advertising.


http://blog.lizardwrangler.com/2009/11/19/state-of-mozilla-and-2008/

--
Jay Garcia - Netscape/Flock Champion
www.ufaq.org
Netscape - Flock - Firefox - Thunderbird - Seamonkey Support
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Re: Goodbye Seamonkey

[Philip Chee]

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 21:42:17 -0800, Rufus wrote:

> ... but that's something you're going to have to explain to me - all 
> this "hired" vs "volunteer" stuff.  Who's who, and how are they doing what?

http://www.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/about/staff/
http://www.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/about/board/
http://www.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/about/

Momo All-Hands 2009 (Meeting of Mozilla Messaging employees in
Vancouver, BC, Canada in August 2009)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lhirlimann/sets/72157622051379888/

> Seeing as all these apps are free, I've been assuming that everyone is a 
> "volunteer".  So, just who is paying the "hired guns", how do they make 
> enough money on a free product to get paid, and just why and what keeps 
> it all free?

Dude, never heard of google?

State of Mozilla and 2008 Financial Statements
http://blog.lizardwrangler.com/2009/11/19/state-of-mozilla-and-2008/

Checking in on Mozilla's Financial Health
http://ostatic.org/blog/checking-in-on-mozillas-financial-health

Much of the money Mozilla makes in profit comes from a Google search deal.
http://www.itpro.co.uk/617977/mozilla-reliant-on-google-for-cash

Mozilla: Still too dependent on Google for revenue; Can it diversify?
http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=27670

Phil

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Re: Missing LPR command dialog in Seamonkey 2/very basic Linux

[Peter Nieman]

On 04/02/10 11:40, Miro wrote:

Seamonkey 2.0.x seems to ignore most of these, and does not recognize
any printer, only presents the possibility Print to File.


For me (Debian user), the solution was to add the following line to the 
file ".gtkrc-2.0" in my home directory:


gtk-print-backends = "lpr,file"

Create a new file with that name and content, if it does not exist.

However, Seamonkey does not remember any changes to the printing command 
you might wish to make in the print dialog. I think that's a known bug 
(in GTK perhaps).


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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0.2 Update

[Claus]

On Jan 18, 2:32 am, Leonidas Jones  wrote:
> Claus wrote:
> > On Jan 14, 2:46 pm, Leonidas Jones  wrote:
> >> Claus wrote:
> >>> On Jan 11, 7:42 pm, Robert Kaiserwrote:
>  As part of Mozilla's ongoing stability and securityupdateprocess,
>  SeaMonkey 2.0.2 is now available for Windows, Mac, and Linux as a free
>  download fromwww.seamonkey-project.org.
>
>  We strongly recommend that all SeaMonkey and old suite users upgrade to
>  this latest release. If you already have SeaMonkey 2.0, you will receive
>  an automatedupdatenotification within 24 to 48 hours. Thisupdatecan
>  also be applied manually by selecting "Check for Updates..." from the
>  Help menu.
>
>  For a list of changes and more information, please review the SeaMonkey
>  2.0.2 Release Notes.
>
>  Note: All SeaMonkey 1.x and old Mozilla or Netscape suite users are
>  encouraged to upgrade to SeaMonkey 2.0.x by downloading it 
>  fromwww.seamonkey-project.org.
>
>  Full news article:http://www.seamonkey-project.org/news#2010-01-11
>
>  Downloads for all available platforms and 
>  languages:http://www.seamonkey-project.org/releases/
>
>  Release notes:http://www.seamonkey-project.org/releases/seamonkey2.0.2
>
>  System 
>  Requirements:http://www.seamonkey-project.org/doc/2.0/system-requirements
>
>  Robert Kaiser
>  SeaMonkey project coordinator
>
> >>> Hallo,
> >>> I answered "yes" to the automatically generated pop-up question
> >>> whether I wanted toupdateto the newest version of SM 2.0.x,
> >>> installed theupdateautomatically (by SeaMonkey's installation
> >>> automatic procedures) and cannot use SeaMonkey any more since this
> >>> update has finished. What went wrong? I need SeaMonkey urgently, since
> >>> my e-mail folders are stored under SeaMonkey and I have access only to
> >>> a limited number of recent mails via a webmail tool.
> >>> Claus
>
> >> What do you mean when you say you can't use SeaMonkey any more?  Does it
> >> just not open at all?  Or does the browser component open, byt not
> >> Mail/News?
>
> >> While we need more information about what is happening to give better
> >> help, my first thought is to download the complete installer and try
> >> installing it again.
>
> >> Lee
>
> > Dear Lee,
>
> > Yes, I mean that almost nothing happens. I am afraid of loosing all my
> > previous e-mails if I download the complete installer. Therefore, I
> > have not applied this option. On my PC under Windows XP Professional,
> > the same procedure went fine: The automatic update procedure was
> > carried out and I can use the browser and the e-mail client. But under
> > Win 7 Professional, it did not work and SeaMonkey does even not start
> > after the update.
>
> > On 13th of January I had posted the following description of my
> > problem under this usenet group:
> > Dear users of SeaMonkey,
>
> > I was using Seamonkey 1.8 under Windows 7 Professional until yesterday
> > on my Notebook. Yesterday evening an automatic update notice popped up
> > and asked me whether I wanted to install the next version of
> > SeaMonkey. I answered yes, had to authorise the administration tool
> > for the user accounts of my notebook to accept certain modifications
> > which were supposed to be carried out during the installation. No
> > error message appeared. But since this update procedure has executed
> > all its files, SeaMonkey does not start any more.  When I click
> > directly on the link on the desktop or when I click directly on C:
> > \Program Files (x86)\SeaMonkey\seamonkey.exe, a pop-up window appears
> > asking whether I would like to authorise the programme of an unknown
> > publisher to carry out modifications on the computer. The programme to
> > carry out these modifications is seamonkey.exe. It doesn't matter if I
> > answer yes or no, since afterwards the pop-up window simply disappears
> > and nothing else happens.
>
> > Therefore, I have used a new feature which is available under the
> > Windows 7.0, namely the "Test programme compatibility". The result of
> > the test is that seamonkey.exe is - according to Windows 7.0
> > Professional - an incompatible application. After having executed the
> > test, I have the option to generate a report which is sent to
> > Microsoft (who has not answered, since they never do) or to run
> > through additional options. But none of these additional options is of
> > help.
>
> > Another idea was to stop my ESET antivirus before I start SeaMonkey.
> > But the result was exactly the same as already described above.
>
> > A last intention was to re-install the previous version of SeaMonkey,
> > but the respective sub-programme under "properties of Seamonkey"
> > searches for previous versions and ends with the message that there
> > are no previous versions available on my notebook...
>
> > The worst thing is that I have lost access to my e-mail account which
> > is integrated in SeaMonkey. The browser is no

Re: Two Problems after Migration to Seamonkey2.x

[Daniel]

Ksteinsky wrote:

Hi,

A): the info-msg after download of emails appears less than one second.
I lost already control over downloaded emails and found them days later.

Q: what can I do that this msg remains until next user action starts.



I'm guessing you have View->Threads set to something like "Unread". 
Might work better if you set it to "All" or "Thread with Unread".




B): I am the -only-user of the desktop.

Q: How can i prevent either the password-dialog or to make it easy by
just hitting the enterkey. The predecessor of seamonkey (1.1.8) did it.


I'm guessing that you have set a Master Password. It's come up before 
and it'll come up again!


Do a Search here looking for posts with the word Password in the title.

HTH

Daniel

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Re: Goodbye Seamonkey

[BJ]

Philip Chee wrote:

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:31:15 -0800, Rufus wrote:


Maybe that team has more Mac users on it or something, but from my Mac
user standpoint they got a lot of stuff right.  Kudos to them.


Their team has at least two Mac users, one full time graphics designer,
and one full time professional User Experience person. I'm sure that if
SeaMonkey can afford to hire such people we could match Thunderbird in
Mac user experience pretty quickly.

Phil

What the heck is a "User Experience person"?  I mean, what do they do 
all day?


BJ
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Missing LPR command dialog in Seamonkey 2/very basic Linux

[Miro]

Specifically, I have this problem:

I have a simple Linux installation based on Ubuntu 9.04 mini.iso. It does not
use any desktop, only the Fluxbox WM. For printing, I use LPRng. Printers
are defined in /etc/printcap. Command line printing works.
In this setup, I had no problems in Seamonkey 1.x.y
with printing directly to a real printer. Using pref.js transferred from
Mozilla suite on Windows, with a o lot of printer preferences defined.
After I selected a printer in the Seamonkey 1 print dialog, I was presented
a LPR command window where I could further modify the lpr command for the given
printer.
Recently I have switched to Seamonkey 2, using again the same user profile
(pref.js) as before, including all the printer/printing settings.
Seamonkey 2.0.x seems to ignore most of these, and does not recognize
any printer, only presents the possibility Print to File.
Setting environmental variables PRINTER, MOZ_PRINTER_NAME_LIST, etc did
not help.

Do you have any idea how to at least force Seamonkey 2 to offer an
LPR command window in the print dialog?

I have noticed that some other graphical application (e.g., epdfview) also do 
not recognize any printers besides "Print to File" and do not offer

new printer installation.
So maybe there is a missing package in my system that provides interface
between the print dialogs of graphical applications and LPRng. Is there
such simple package? (I am not interested in full desktops or CUPS)

On the other hand, e.g. gv offers the LPR command line window
after pushing the PRINT button even now. Could this be enabled also
in Seamonkey 2?

Thanks for any advice!
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List of all preferences from pref.js

[Miro]

Hi!
Is there somewhere available for download a list of all preferences (name, type 
and allowed valued) from pref.js (about:config) recognized (and respected) by 
SM 2 in Linux?

Or at least all preferences related to printer selection and printing.
Thanks,
Miro
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Re: Printing passwords in V 2

[Ray_Net]

Phillip Jones wrote:

George Carden wrote:

Evan Davidson wrote:

Leonidas Jones wrote:

George Carden wrote:

The old ways I am aware of for printing a list of passwords from the
Password Manager don't seem to work in SeaMonkey V2.

This link describes what I'd been doing...

http://edmullen.net/mozilla/moz_pw.php

Ed, or anyone, what is the best way to print passwords now in
version 2?

Thanks!

-George


This is nothing more then a very kludgey workaround, but if you really
need a printed copy, open Password Manager, select View Passwords,
take a screen shot and print that.

Depending on your screen res and how many passwords you have saved,
you might have to take multiple screenshots to get them all.

I know its not what you are looking for, but it will get you the copy
you need.

Lee


This link is from No. 5 on Ed Mullen's website. It works on both Firefox
3.x and Seamonkey 2.0.x:
http://the-edmeister.com/firefox_info/Firefox_Passwords_Info.html

Save the link "Firefox-3_Passwords.htm as a file. Open it up in your
browser and it will shows all the Host-User name-Password data as an
HTML table.


This is way too cool! 8-)

Thanks!

Didn't work for me. but the html script did work once I did away with
the extra returns.

I did not fiddle to remove some extra return, i did not click on the 
link then view the source and copy/paste into notepad to save on disk 
then double-click on it.
I right click the link, then choice "save target as" then save on disk 
then double-click on the saved file in explorer(not ie) and SUPER !!!

(i had to accept twice a security windows asking me for "Allow")
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