[biofuels-biz] Joshua Tickell in Kaniva, Vic.
Appologies for cross posting! It seems we will be fortunate to have Joshua Tickell visit and speak before returning to the States. Renowned international speaker author of the book, ãFrom the Fryer to the Fuel Tankä, Joshua Tickell will be speaking in Kaniva on ãUsing Vegetable Oil as an Alternative Fuel.ä Thurs 2nd Jan, 1.30 pm at the Commercial Hotel, Commercial St, Kaniva, Cover charge $5.00 For seminar bookings more information, Contact Steven Hobbs. Mob; 0419 003 752 Or email me by return. Optional Counter lunch available from noon. Bookings Essential, Phone (03) 5392 2230 Proudly supported by the Alternative Technology Association For more information click on this link! http://www.purplestarfish.com.au/whats_on.htm Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Fwd: Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: Japan: Environment Ministry High on Alcohol-Fueled Vehicles
--- In biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com, Sam Jai-In [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi KeithHakan, The resistance came from all sides, both the automakers in Japan and the legs and arms here in Thailand as well as those that have business interest or cross holding in petroleum,MTBE or tetraethyllead! Those are the odds against sustainable energy future for developing countries. My view is that bioethanol, biodiesel and biogas can have significant portion of the transport fuel needs of agricultural countries.We could ,in fact,aim for a very high market share of say 5% share by 2010, similar to that of the EU, and that would mean that we will need hundreds of small-medium biofuel plants all over the country. Surely all the poor and rural farmers will somehow have to learn all the trick of the trades, in their own terms and languages but the forum here is the starting point! The efforts by your group have been very useful to convince people all over the world and I would say that reading 20/30 emails on the subject has made me all the more wiser about the issue. Keep on the good work! Samai --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings Samai Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the opposition in Thailand (and other SE Asian countries?) was more on the part of the local agents or local branches, and I don't know how closely the branches are tied to the mother companies when it comes to such issues. We've found some quite different views among senior people in the Japanese motor companies here in Japan, some of them very interested in biofuels developments in SE Asia. But that wasn't an official view or company policy. Whatever, I'm sure you're right, it will be much more difficult for them to be negative about it now if you can point to a positive policy in Japan, that their mother companies subscribe to. Thanks for this info as it brought me a big relieve that the Japanese are now thinking of Ethanol and Biodiesel! For the past three years that we have tried to launch biofuel program in Thailand where most carsmotorcycles are Japanese-made, those who have always come up with NEGATIVE views of biofuel are Japanese motor companies as well as some engineering associations. They would raise all sort of reasons such as emissions, material compatability, ozone formation, price etc etc. that seems endless. Now that their motherland is thinking about it, I surely hope that the critics will look at the issue under a different light. Perhaps, all other smaller countries can develop their biofuel programs and therefore, one day, they can hope to climb out of the poverty trap and the dependency on foreign aid packages! Hear hear! Best wishes Keith Samai Japan: Environment Ministry High on Alcohol-Fueled Vehicles Dec 16, 2002 The Asahi Shimbun http://www.asahi.com/english/national/K2002121600230.html Japan: Country Eyes Bioenergy-fueled Plants, Cars in 2010 Dec 19, 2002 http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=newscat=4id=243380 __ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com --- End forwarded message ---
Fwd: Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: Japan: Environment Ministry High on Alcohol-Fueled Vehicles
--- In biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com, Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Samai, I agree with you, Keith is doing a marvel with the web site Journey to forever, dealing with maybe the most important problems for developing countries. I think that he is getting it all together in a very practical way and on village level. He is in fact writing a road map on how to get out of the poverty trap. He is very much aware of that this is in reality an energy trap and are showing the way out of this. Sustainable agriculture without need of chemicals and the energy consumption. Effective burning for cooking or using solar power and with this also solving severe health problems. Biofuels for transportation, electricity generation and heating. I think he is covering the corners. Education is going to be the key for success in developing countries and this is very important. Once it can be started in developing countries and it is an efficient education plan together, it has a chance to snowball. The education plan could use the tactics of MLM-marketing. Sign up a village for education and assistance, against a commitment that they sign up and educate 5 other villages, under the same conditions. So what is key is the education material and standard equipment for supporting the snowball, once it starts rolling. The bigger cities will provide for the needed financial incentives for the villages. Keith have it all there and it will work. Hakan At 10:02 AM 12/23/2002 +, you wrote: Hi KeithHakan, The resistance came from all sides, both the automakers in Japan and the legs and arms here in Thailand as well as those that have business interest or cross holding in petroleum,MTBE or tetraethyllead! Those are the odds against sustainable energy future for developing countries. My view is that bioethanol, biodiesel and biogas can have significant portion of the transport fuel needs of agricultural countries.We could ,in fact,aim for a very high market share of say 5% share by 2010, similar to that of the EU, and that would mean that we will need hundreds of small-medium biofuel plants all over the country. Surely all the poor and rural farmers will somehow have to learn all the trick of the trades, in their own terms and languages but the forum here is the starting point! The efforts by your group have been very useful to convince people all over the world and I would say that reading 20/30 emails on the subject has made me all the more wiser about the issue. Keep on the good work! Samai --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings Samai Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the opposition in Thailand (and other SE Asian countries?) was more on the part of the local agents or local branches, and I don't know how closely the branches are tied to the mother companies when it comes to such issues. We've found some quite different views among senior people in the Japanese motor companies here in Japan, some of them very interested in biofuels developments in SE Asia. But that wasn't an official view or company policy. Whatever, I'm sure you're right, it will be much more difficult for them to be negative about it now if you can point to a positive policy in Japan, that their mother companies subscribe to. Thanks for this info as it brought me a big relieve that the Japanese are now thinking of Ethanol and Biodiesel! For the past three years that we have tried to launch biofuel program in Thailand where most carsmotorcycles are Japanese-made, those who have always come up with NEGATIVE views of biofuel are Japanese motor companies as well as some engineering associations. They would raise all sort of reasons such as emissions, material compatability, ozone formation, price etc etc. that seems endless. Now that their motherland is thinking about it, I surely hope that the critics will look at the issue under a different light. Perhaps, all other smaller countries can develop their biofuel programs and therefore, one day, they can hope to climb out of the poverty trap and the dependency on foreign aid packages! Hear hear! Best wishes Keith Samai Japan: Environment Ministry High on Alcohol-Fueled Vehicles Dec 16, 2002 The Asahi Shimbun http://www.asahi.com/english/national/K2002121600230.html Japan: Country Eyes Bioenergy-fueled Plants, Cars in 2010 Dec 19, 2002 http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=newscat=4id=243380 __ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this
[biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Special Alert -- Don't Delay! Register Now for the Biodiesel Research and Brainstorming Workshop
Would be nice if they had the sessions online for a marginal price package . Anyone from the NBB lurking?? ;-) James Slayden On Fri, 20 Dec 2002, murdoch wrote: If youre interested in learning about the latest biodiesel research and technical data from North Americas leading experts, register now for the Biodiesel Research and Brainstorming Workshop, January 29-30,2003, in New Orleans. Sponsored by the National Biodiesel Board (NBB), the US Department of Energy, and the US Department of Agriculture, the workshop is a must for biodiesel researchers and technical personnel, biodiesel fuel suppliers, engine and fuel injection equipment manufacturers, government agencies interested in funding biodiesel research and development, and other stakeholders. What about general all 'round alt-fuel trouble-makers? Are we excluded? :-) Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: Time Magazine features Direct Liquid Ethanol Fuel Cells
Just was perusing the Medis webpage, they seem to have some smaller eth battery technology they are going into. I am interested in the rotay engine they have as it could be useful for a hybrid application. MM, Biodiesel hybrid .. Guess Capstone is also a competing technology, might get even more bang for the buck. BTW, they seem to be focused on the portable market right now, but it seems to be the fuelcell growth pattern over the last few years to move into remote Telco applications before taking on larger projects. Ballard is really the only one serious about the transportation sector (so far). James Slayden On Fri, 20 Dec 2002, murdoch wrote: On Thu, 19 Dec 2002 07:07:14 -0600, you wrote: For a while now I have had it in my mind that I should produce ethanol in my back yard from biomass. Make electricity from the ethanol. Then, use the electricity to power my home and sell the excess to the power company. Easy right. Any coments. I'd like to see more attempts at this, but quite often when I mention using biomass to make electricity, folks try to shoot it down because it is not as presently efficient as they would like to see. I think that it's a challenge worth exploring, particularly given new technologies such as fuel cells. I also strongly agree with Kirk that cogeneration can make-or-break whether this project is energy efficient. This was particularly true in fuel cells, in a table I once saw of their energy efficiencies. It was only with cogeneration, with some of them, that they got above the 40, 50, 60 percent marks. I really want to see ethanol fuel cells. Ethanol is the only fuel on the list of potential fuel cell fuels that the Petroleum Industry doesn't presently dominate, and it is, consequently (my opinion) not talked about nearly as often as other potential fuel cell fuels. When I spoke to Medis two years ago they had not yet got to the point where their Ethanol Fuel Cell technology could be readily scaled up to house-powering size. I don't know where they are at with that issue right now, nor do I know if theirs is best for such an attempt, because I think their ethanol fuel cell concepts necessitated some sort of secret ingredient aspect. My guess is that there are several companies whose cells could, with some effort, be adapted to ethanol use. MM Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] toxins in this season U.S. corn
Of Course, if someone out there in the growing belt gets a clue . ;-O lemme see make oil, turn into biodiesel, take cake, make into ethanol, use dried mash as heat source for ethanol process, use some of ethanol for biodiesel process, use sun for heating corn SVO Dunno, seems doable. ;-) James Slayden On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, murdoch wrote: http://biz.yahoo.com/rm/021220/food_corn_toxin_1.html I wonder how they'll use some of it if it is deemed unfit for human consumption. Looks like they'll feed some of it to animals. I wonder if it can be used to make fuel. Reuters U.S. farmers form task force to fight corn toxins Friday December 20, 5:24 pm ET CHICAGO, Dec 20 (Reuters) - U.S. farmers have formed a task force to limit toxins in future corn crops after the worst outbreak of aflatoxin since 1988, an industry official said Friday. Our overall goal is to minimize the major mycotoxins (from corn) and we're going to be looking at that through a bunch of different avenues including hybrid research, said Paul Bertels, a grain quality specialist with the National Corn Growers Association. ADVERTISEMENT The task force will find ways to fund research into corn varieties resistant to toxins. It will also develop better sampling techniques at country elevators, Bertels told Reuters. The move comes after the highest levels of aflatoxin in 14 years were found in the U.S. Midwest corn crop after this summer's drought. Aflatoxin, a cancer-causing toxin found in moldy corn, can cause cancer in humans if consumed at high levels and can be deadly to young animals if they consume large amounts. It is usually found in the southern parts of the Corn Belt, especially Texas, where the crop often comes under heat stress. But this year's heat wave that plagued the heart of the Corn Belt in July and August put the Midwest crop at high risk for aflatoxin. High levels of aflatoxin were found not only in Texas and Nebraska but as far north as northern Illinois. The group will also seek to eliminate another corn mold, fumonisin, a fungus and cancer-causing substance that is also linked to human birth defects. Fumonisin is much more widespread than aflatoxin across the Midwest, thriving under heat and humid conditions. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has set aflatoxin limits for food consumption at 20 parts per billion. The maximum tolerance for livestock feed has been established at 300 parts per billion. FDA recommends fumonisin in food to be under five parts per million and under 100 parts per million in livestock feed. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Burning sunflowers
Now this sounds really interesting!! Do you have a link to the Company?? James Slayden On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, David Teal wrote: Quote from the Leeds University alumni magazine www.leeds.ac.uk/alumni : Fuel and energy researchers are hoping to use sunflower oil to produce hydrogen, a fuel of the future. Hydrogen has been attractive as a fuel because it can create electricity with no harmful emissions. Most methods of producing the gas, however, create pollution. Researchers are testing a pollution free system using only sunflower oil, air, water vapour and two special catalysts. David T. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Burning sunflowers
Ah, thanks. On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, David Teal wrote: Sorry, direct ref should be: http://reporter.leeds.ac.uk/483/s3.htm Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Burning sunflowers
It kinda sounds like they are also using some type of supercritical CO method for oil extraction, thus leaving a somewhat clean process. Todd, you have links to any white papers on CO to Methanol conversion? I haven't had much success before. Thanks, James Slayden On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, Appal Energy wrote: http://reporter.leeds.ac.uk/483/s3.htm All a bit elusive... quote: Most methods of producing hydrogen burn another fuel for energy, which itself creates pollution - carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides and other emissions, said Dr Dupont. Our catalyst uses oxygen from the air to heat up naturally, and this heat is used to reform the oil with steam to create hydrogen. The excess carbon dioxide is taken into the second catalyst, then released for storage or use in other chemical processes, ensuring that damaging levels of CO2 aren't just put back into the atmosphere. Oxygen from the air to heat up naturally... Interesting. I wonder what their loss rate of catalyst, or energy cost to restore it if needed, or life cycle energy cost to refine it. They mention pyrolysis in a latter paragraph. Wonder where they get the damaging levels of CO2? If they were using the pyrolytic fuels from the process itself to perpetuate stripping (not creating) hydrogen they would be carbon neutral at worst, erego no damaging levels of CO2. Not to say that CO2 recovery is not intelligent, as it could be used to produce methanol as a useable byproduct, among other things. Todd Swearingen Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: Burning sunflowers
BYW, they might want to pick a seed with higher oil content. http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html James Slayden On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, hcr_ii [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Todd, when I was a student in this department there was quite a bit of work being done on the pyrolysis of coal. I suspect this is what they are talking about in this paragraph: Waste pyrolysis oil is currently burned as fuel, but this can be quite polluting, said Dr Dupont. Our system would still make use of its energy potential, while allowing the often noxious chemicals in the oil to be more easily controlled. i.e. 'waste' oil from a totally separate process, not the co-product of the steam reforming of sunflower oil. H --- In biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com, Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://reporter.leeds.ac.uk/483/s3.htm All a bit elusive... quote: Most methods of producing hydrogen burn another fuel for energy, which itself creates pollution - carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides and other emissions, said Dr Dupont. Our catalyst uses oxygen from the air to heat up naturally, and this heat is used to reform the oil with steam to create hydrogen. The excess carbon dioxide is taken into the second catalyst, then released for storage or use in other chemical processes, ensuring that damaging levels of CO2 aren't just put back into the atmosphere. Oxygen from the air to heat up naturally... Interesting. I wonder what their loss rate of catalyst, or energy cost to restore it if needed, or life cycle energy cost to refine it. They mention pyrolysis in a latter paragraph. Wonder where they get the damaging levels of CO2? If they were using the pyrolytic fuels from the process itself to perpetuate stripping (not creating) hydrogen they would be carbon neutral at worst, erego no damaging levels of CO2. Not to say that CO2 recovery is not intelligent, as it could be used to produce methanol as a useable byproduct, among other things. Todd Swearingen Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] SUV, truck owners get a big tax break
Now, it certainly doesn't say gas or diesel ;-) looking at the list, the Dodge Ram 2500 seems like a nice little pickup (hehehehehe). Time to start that business Yummie: http://www.dodge.com/ram_hd/model_overview/index.html James Slayden On Sun, 22 Dec 2002, Keith Addison wrote: http://www.detnews.com/2002/autosinsider/0212/18/c01-38875.htm - 12/18/02 Wednesday, December 18, 2002 David Coates / The Detroit News Karl Wizinsky, a health care consultant in Novi, was able to write off $32,000 of the $47,000 purchase price of a Ford Excursion as a business expense. It's perfectly legal, and accountants and auto dealers are starting to catch on. SUV, truck owners get a big tax break Loophole allows hefty write-off for vehicles By Jeff Plungis / Detroit News Washington Bureau Eligible vehicles Here are the 38 light truck models that qualify for an extra $24,000 accelerated depreciation tax break: BMW X5 Cadillac Escalade Chevy Astro Chevy Avalanche Chevy Express Chevy Silverado Chevy Suburban Chevy Tahoe Dodge Durango Dodge Ram Van Dodge Ram Maxi Van Dodge Ram Wagon Dodge Ram 1500 Dodge Ram 2500 Dodge Ram 3500 Ford Excursion Ford Expedition Ford Econoline E-150 Ford Econoline E-250 Ford Econoline E-350 Ford F-150 Ford F-250 Ford F-350 GMC Yukon GMC Safari GMC Savana GMC Sierra GMC Sierra Denali Land Rover Discovery Land Rover Range Rover Lincoln Blackwood Lincoln Navigator Mercedes ML 320 Mercedes ML 500 Mercedes ML55 AMG Toyota Land Cruiser Toyota Sequoia Toyota Tundra Comment on this story Send this story to a friend Get Home Delivery WASHINGTON -- Karl Wizinsky wasn't thinking about buying a new vehicle, and certainly not a big SUV. So why is there a brand-new $47,000 Ford Excursion sitting in his driveway? He was able to write off $32,000 of the purchase price as a business expense. We really did it because it was a pretty hefty deduction, said Wizinsky, a health care consultant in Novi. At the same time the tax code sanctions $30,000 write-offs for SUVs, prospective purchasers of a fuel-efficient hybrid vehicles qualify for a relatively small $4,000 tax credit. A deal to extend similar tax credits to other environmentally friendly vehicles remains stalled in Congress. It's all legal, and accountants and auto dealers are beginning to catch on. If it can save the consumer money, it's most likely that the dealer is going to know about it, said Andrew Beck, spokesman for the National Automobile Dealers Association. So far, there is no indication anyone in Congress wants to close the loophole. In fact, even higher depreciation tax breaks are on the table as part of the next round of tax cuts President Bush is planning. The SUV tax break is becoming a staple of advice in the accounting world, as small business owners such as Wizinsky are advised on ways to reduce end-of-the-year tax bills. The size of the tax break has been growing under a schedule that became law in 1996. That's when Congress changed tax law to encourage business investment. The scale of the tax break surprises accountants and tax experts, who feel bound to recommend SUVs and other light trucks to small-business clients. As I understood it, the reason (for the tax break) is to encourage business investment. That's what happened in my case, Wizinsky said. At the same time, the tax break seems to contradict other national goals, such as improving vehicle fuel efficiency. A more economical fleet would aid two important national goals: reducing U.S. dependence on foreign oil and cutting greenhouse gasses. The total cost of the loophole hasn't been calculated by the government, but Taxpayers for Common Sense, a nonpartisan Washington watchdog group, estimates the SUV tax loophole could cost taxpayers between $840 million and $987 million for every 100,000 vehicles sold to businesses. Aileen Roder, the group's program director, questioned whether there is a national need to subsidize sales of the largest light trucks -- given Americans are buying SUVs in record numbers. This is one of the most lucrative breaks in the tax code, Roder said. We're making it a fiscal no-brainer for businesses to buy giant SUVs. To get an idea of the scale of the SUV tax break, a credit aimed at making it easier for small businesses to comply with the Americans with Disabilities Act costs $525 million per 100,000 uses. A tax credit to reimburse teachers for classroom supplies annually costs the treasury $250 million per 100,000 uses. And a provision allowing taxpayers to put up to $3,000 of tax-free earnings per year in private retirement accounts costs about $90 million per 100,000 taxpayers, according to Taxpayers for Common Sense. There are long-standing limits on deductions to prevent taxpayers from subsidizing
(response to Keith) Re: [biofuels-biz] Biofuel Business Plan Group Kicking Off Projects NOW
Keith, Thanks for your candid feedback and good ideas. Before I address your specific points and questions, let me try to clarify that the basic motivation for forming this group as I see it, through a hypothetical: On the consumer side, if I am in New York and I'm interested in questions like: a) how my kid can ride to school in a cleaner bus b) who in NY city government can I call to demand that she ride to school in a cleaner bus c) what vehicle I can buy TODAY that can be more environmentally friendly d) why the local staff of my favorite environmental organizations don't support biodiesel e) what the heck is the connection between fossil fuels and the destruction of my downtown skyline last year f) what local businesses should I patronize that are running environmentally friendly vehicles ... it is currently quite a time consuming and daunting task to find those answers, and most people with jobs and families simply aren't going to. I think we can assist people in educating themselves on local/regional-specific level, and grow our political consituency and the market demand for BD, as a result, and in turn effect greater change. Similarly, on the business side, if I am in New York and I want to start a local environmentally and socially-responsible energy business, I'm trying to assess questions like: a) what are the local market opportunities are and who (fleet owners, building managers with boilers, etc.) controls them, b) what is the local tax/incentive situation c) who is already in the business locally that I might partner or have to compete with d) how I can get effective local PR done to help my fledgling local business grow, etc.? Or if I own a local business with a vehicle fleet and I have heard of this thing called BD but don't know where to get it, I want answers to questions like: a) what my range of choices of suppliers would be b) what the difference between buying BD from soybean oil from World Energy and buying from someone that has processed recycled oil from Chinatown restaurants would be etc. In all these cases is quite difficult to find reliable answers in context to locally-specific questions such as these. The result is fewer businesses, less economical supply, less awareness, and less demand (in no particular order). There is room, and I would argue a need, for some coherence and centralization of information and sharing of resources and experience, particularly when local issues and experiences bear on national and international issues and vice-versa. There needs to be a bridge. That does not have to be a scary corporate thing, and a group of a few dozen volunteers trying to put up a central information resource online and acting as local information gatherers does not a Redmond Monster make! :) Keith wrote: Um... I think I'd contest the idea that that would be unlike other biofuels lists. That you don't see any central organization or overt coordination doesn't mean that it doesn't achieve specific goals. Indeed it does, but not by marshalling people in any way, and that's as it should be, IMHO. It's very open, as in Open Source, and as opposed to Microsoft, but Open Source has achieved rather a lot, and so have the biofuels lists, and the very uncoordinated biofuels movement. Absolutely-- these lists are fantastic, and are making a huge difference! They are not focused on a single specific project however, and this new group is. It's neither better nor worse nor competitive. Just more specific. I'm afraid I see this rather as yet another biofuels list. I'm a little sceptical on a few counts. Your outline below entails a lot of people doing a lot of work, and sustaining it. And they won't be working at their own ideas on their own account, they'd be following someone else's plan, someone else's vision. What would be their incentive to do that? Unless you pay them. A lot of this work won't Yes there is a lot of work to be done, but I think we can all sense on these lists the power of community. When a lot of people are willing to share resources, the workload falling on any individual does not have to be so daunting. I disagree with the idea that group members won't be working at their own ideas on their own account, and that there is any need to incentivize us beyond the difference we can make in our respective communities. Yes I have laid out an idea and a plan and an invitation to begin it, but I hope, and in fact am counting on, the project being defined and developed far more by the community carrying it out than by any specific ideas I had off the cuff at the outset as one of the first members of the community. I'm simply committed that we see BD information and resources gathered and shared globally at a local/regional level in an organized fashion, because I believe that will make a difference. We'll see! :) be replicable from country to country, or even from region to region within a country, I'm not sure much of anything
RE: [biofuels-biz] City of Oakland holding a meeting aimed supporting local commercial biodiesel production
Please let us know when the meeting is scheduled. -Original Message- From: Kenneth Kron [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 6:13 PM To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com; girl_mark_fire; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:[biofuels-biz] City of Oakland holding a meeting aimed supporting local commercial biodiesel production Just thought I'd update the list. I've been working with with the sustainable development person in the planning department in Oakland, Carol Misseldine. Oakland is starting to understand what biodiesel is and is turning the beauracracy around to support it. No date for the meeting yet, the attendees include: city, business and community representatives. The current agenda is: KEY AGENDA ITEMS FOR A BIODIESEL MEETING IN OAKLAND Drafted by Carol Misseldine, Oakland Sustainable Development Initiative, 12/12/02 *1) What quantities of the following feedstocks are realistically available for biodiesel in Oakland?* Waste Vegetable Oil (WVO):// //Municipal Waste Stream: *2) Is biodiesel a realistic solution or partial solution for Oakland's air quality problems?* 3) How much of Oakland's diesel needs could be met with the above sources, including Oakland's City Fleet, Port trucks, public transit? 4) What are the economic and siting barriers and opportunities for local manufacture and distribution of biodiesel? *5) What are the emissions issues related to a biodiesel manufacturing facility?* *6) What are the zoning requirements for a biodiesel manufacturing facility?* /Catherine Payne, CEDA/ *7) What is the status of CARB's intent to rank biodiesel as an alternative fuel?* /Randall von Wedel/ *8) Other* [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Bruning Feed and Grain
Hola Everyone, http://www.bruninggrainco.com/pdf%27s/electric.pdf Note the more environmental extraction process. Also note the concern for Mad Cow and Hoof Mouth from (I suppose) rendering?! I can only guess when the article talks about non-natural meal products it means animal renderings and also WVO included into the meal. Yuck!! Glad to see that someone in the industry is actually speaking about it. Good selling point also. Now, just get rid of the GMO's and the chemicals in the AG. Hey, for all those BD'lers out there, it indicates that their oil is lower in FFA's due to their extraction process. I wonder if this has been tested? James Slayden Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] Australia puts off imposing cap on ethanol in fuel
When I lived in Illinois in the late 70's, they had just started selling Gassahol (10%eth, 90%gas), and I started using it. Within 2 months the fuel filter clogged due to the tank clearing. Just replaced the fuel filter and all was well. Didn't seem to be any effect on the rubber parts at all. BTW, I had a 350 Camaro (hopped up of course) and it did way better on the gassahol than standard petrol. I used to street race it sometimes . but that is another story better left unsaid. James Slayden On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, murdoch wrote: Trials conducted in NSW on their own vehicle fleet since 1992 by Park Petroleum, and in the wider NSW fleet since 1994, clearly indicate that the wide range of new and advanced technologies introduced into the global vehicle fleet over the past twenty years provide vehicles with the capacity to operate on higher ethanol blends without experiencing drivability or operability difficulties. This is really what I'm after. The rest, while interesting and relevant, is not at the heart of it. I'm aware, for example, that an attempt to limit things to 10%, if unwarranted, is just a pretext by the petroleum companies to keep most of their monopoly on providing fuel for transportation. One thing on my mind is that if there are any differences or effects, or even just something minor that a new user of a 20% ethanol blend might need to know in order to be better prepared for any effects, then it's arguable that they should have some labeling might help such drivers. But I guess a decent widespread publicity campaign (your fuel filter may temporarily be clogged due to long-term buildup of this or that, here is what to do about that) would also help. Why would there be damage? What damage has there been in Brazil, the US, and elsewhere, where millions or billions of miles have been driven on higher blends than that, without damage or being stopped cold by water? What damage has there been in Autralia? If there was any actual damage it would surely have been trundled out rather than an outboard motor that might stall or something. I have never used an appreciable amount of ethanol in a vehicle. Once or twice over the years I've seen angry or upset letters of drivers who have traveled to an area where ethanol was introduced to their cars and they believed it has caused a problem or two. So, I do not wish to dismiss out-of-hand the idea that there could be an adverse affect upon vehicle performance from introduction of ethanol where it has not been used before, or where its amount had previously been at lower percentages. Adverse performance might be something as simple as temporarily clogged fuel filter, or something worse that I don't appreciate. I figure I'll ask the question, since it's being raised, and since possibly others are reluctant to ask. Obviously, the over-riding issue is that the Petroleum Monopoly is being unethical and spreading disinformation. In order for me to sort the information from the disinformation (the most effective lies having just enough truth to them) I need to look around a bit. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Methane to Methanol was Re: [biofuels-biz] Burning sunflowers
Personally, no white papers in hand. But a Google search for 'Methane conversion Methanol' will give you weeks of bedtime reading material. Even a few methods on how to produce acetic acid, but unfortunately too much methanol is derived at the same time...Go figger! Conversion process using landfill gas... http://www.netl.doe.gov/publications/proceedings/97/97ng/ng97_pdf /NGP4.PDF Conversion process using natural gas... http://www.aeeseap.org/conf2000/contents/09/0903.pdf Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: James Slayden [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 12:48 PM Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Burning sunflowers It kinda sounds like they are also using some type of supercritical CO method for oil extraction, thus leaving a somewhat clean process. Todd, you have links to any white papers on CO to Methanol conversion? I haven't had much success before. Thanks, James Slayden On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, Appal Energy wrote: http://reporter.leeds.ac.uk/483/s3.htm All a bit elusive... quote: Most methods of producing hydrogen burn another fuel for energy, which itself creates pollution - carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides and other emissions, said Dr Dupont. Our catalyst uses oxygen from the air to heat up naturally, and this heat is used to reform the oil with steam to create hydrogen. The excess carbon dioxide is taken into the second catalyst, then released for storage or use in other chemical processes, ensuring that damaging levels of CO2 aren't just put back into the atmosphere. Oxygen from the air to heat up naturally... Interesting. I wonder what their loss rate of catalyst, or energy cost to restore it if needed, or life cycle energy cost to refine it. They mention pyrolysis in a latter paragraph. Wonder where they get the damaging levels of CO2? If they were using the pyrolytic fuels from the process itself to perpetuate stripping (not creating) hydrogen they would be carbon neutral at worst, erego no damaging levels of CO2. Not to say that CO2 recovery is not intelligent, as it could be used to produce methanol as a useable byproduct, among other things. Todd Swearingen Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: (response to Keith) Re: [biofuels-biz] Biofuel Business Plan Group Kicking Off Projects NOW
Dear Andrew, I have been an entrepreneur for the most part of my active live and started quite a few businesses and if you adapt your ambitions, goals and methods as you go along, it could be a valuable contribution. I have been actively involved in businesses in more than 14 countries and have some points for you, apart that you should listen carefully to Keith and think about what he is saying, 1. A business plan is a map that from its start is very rough and needs to be adjusted all the time. The old joke about military who says If the map does not fit with the terrain, follow the map, is disastrous for business. Therefore I would talk more about adaption than alignment. I do not know how much experiences you have from early startup phases, but recognize that you have participated in business planning and have experiences. 2. It is knowledge, enthusiasm, energy and stubbornness that creates new businesses and markets for them. Values that are a prerequisite for any ground breaking work. It is very few large companies that can live with entrepreneurs, the only one I have close work experiences from, was ITT, when Harold Geneen was still in charge. By the way, I was shocked by his language the only time I participated in a meeting with him, very American. What made ITT was its decentralized structure and at the time the best flexible planning, budget, accounting and follow up system. 3. Entrepreneurs are very much like artists and if you are a gallery representing artists, you need to be humble, supportive, show patience and respect for the work they do. To represent artists is an art in it self. I could go on forever to talk about starting up a business and all the things that happens, but the three points above are most important. I think that your goals of helping is better served by a number of business plan templates, flexibility and adaption. Rather than standard planning and alignment. It could be a very valuable help for many and can also result in strength of a loosely knit interest organization. Hakan At 01:44 PM 12/23/2002 -0500, you wrote: Keith, Thanks for your candid feedback and good ideas. Before I address your specific points and questions, let me try to clarify that the basic motivation for forming this group as I see it, through a hypothetical: On the consumer side, if I am in New York and I'm interested in questions like: a) how my kid can ride to school in a cleaner bus b) who in NY city government can I call to demand that she ride to school in a cleaner bus c) what vehicle I can buy TODAY that can be more environmentally friendly d) why the local staff of my favorite environmental organizations don't support biodiesel e) what the heck is the connection between fossil fuels and the destruction of my downtown skyline last year f) what local businesses should I patronize that are running environmentally friendly vehicles ... it is currently quite a time consuming and daunting task to find those answers, and most people with jobs and families simply aren't going to. I think we can assist people in educating themselves on local/regional-specific level, and grow our political consituency and the market demand for BD, as a result, and in turn effect greater change. Similarly, on the business side, if I am in New York and I want to start a local environmentally and socially-responsible energy business, I'm trying to assess questions like: a) what are the local market opportunities are and who (fleet owners, building managers with boilers, etc.) controls them, b) what is the local tax/incentive situation c) who is already in the business locally that I might partner or have to compete with d) how I can get effective local PR done to help my fledgling local business grow, etc.? Or if I own a local business with a vehicle fleet and I have heard of this thing called BD but don't know where to get it, I want answers to questions like: a) what my range of choices of suppliers would be b) what the difference between buying BD from soybean oil from World Energy and buying from someone that has processed recycled oil from Chinatown restaurants would be etc. In all these cases is quite difficult to find reliable answers in context to locally-specific questions such as these. The result is fewer businesses, less economical supply, less awareness, and less demand (in no particular order). There is room, and I would argue a need, for some coherence and centralization of information and sharing of resources and experience, particularly when local issues and experiences bear on national and international issues and vice-versa. There needs to be a bridge. That does not have to be a scary corporate thing, and a group of a few dozen volunteers trying to put up a central information resource online and acting as local information gatherers does not a Redmond Monster make! :) Keith wrote: Um... I think I'd contest the idea that that would be unlike other biofuels lists. That
Re: Methane to Methanol was Re: [biofuels-biz] Burning sunflowers
Thanks Todd. Yep, I have looked at a search stream before, and have read a significant amount, but have not found exactly what I was looking for. But the link you sent on landfill gas is!! :) James Slayden On Mon, 23 Dec 2002, Appal Energy wrote: Personally, no white papers in hand. But a Google search for 'Methane conversion Methanol' will give you weeks of bedtime reading material. Even a few methods on how to produce acetic acid, but unfortunately too much methanol is derived at the same time...Go figger! Conversion process using landfill gas... http://www.netl.doe.gov/publications/proceedings/97/97ng/ng97_pdf /NGP4.PDF Conversion process using natural gas... http://www.aeeseap.org/conf2000/contents/09/0903.pdf Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: James Slayden [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 12:48 PM Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Burning sunflowers It kinda sounds like they are also using some type of supercritical CO method for oil extraction, thus leaving a somewhat clean process. Todd, you have links to any white papers on CO to Methanol conversion? I haven't had much success before. Thanks, James Slayden On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, Appal Energy wrote: http://reporter.leeds.ac.uk/483/s3.htm All a bit elusive... quote: Most methods of producing hydrogen burn another fuel for energy, which itself creates pollution - carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides and other emissions, said Dr Dupont. Our catalyst uses oxygen from the air to heat up naturally, and this heat is used to reform the oil with steam to create hydrogen. The excess carbon dioxide is taken into the second catalyst, then released for storage or use in other chemical processes, ensuring that damaging levels of CO2 aren't just put back into the atmosphere. Oxygen from the air to heat up naturally... Interesting. I wonder what their loss rate of catalyst, or energy cost to restore it if needed, or life cycle energy cost to refine it. They mention pyrolysis in a latter paragraph. Wonder where they get the damaging levels of CO2? If they were using the pyrolytic fuels from the process itself to perpetuate stripping (not creating) hydrogen they would be carbon neutral at worst, erego no damaging levels of CO2. Not to say that CO2 recovery is not intelligent, as it could be used to produce methanol as a useable byproduct, among other things. Todd Swearingen Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Fwd: Ethanol and Fuel Filters
Randy sent me this, which I didn't know about: Hi Keith a long time ago. When leaded gasoline was still sold under the label 'Regular', the gasoline would leave a varnish inside of the gas tank and fuel lines. High octane gasoline was called Ethyl, because of the additive tetra ethyl lead. These additives left deposits inside containers. In the early 1980's, when regular gasoline was disappearing from availability, and there were still older cars that required high octane gasoline to operate right, 10 percent ethanol / gasoline blends started appearing. This was also during the time of Arab oil embargos and gasoline rationing and the first occurance of high fule prices in the United States. The higher octane ratings attracted the consumers driving mid 70's vehicles and when they started running ethanol blended fuels, the ethanol acted as a cleaning solvent and deposited the varnish in the fuel filter. It also plugged up more than one small engine fuel filter because they were often stored over winter with gasoline in their tanks The varnish would build up pretty thick and come out in a thick slime. also the neoprene floats inside of carburetors would soak up the ethanol and become very 'heavy'. The hollow copper or brass floats were uneffected. It took the industry about a year to fix the chemical formula for the neoprene.But now adays with fuel injected gasoline engines, the floats are eliminated from the assembly. Newer varieties of unleaded gasoline do not seem to leave the same residue. Since the late 1970's / early 1980's all new gasoline powered cars leaving Detroit are required to burn unleaded gas. So the new fuel tanks are not coated with the same gunk as they were before. These are 'old' problems. 'antiquers' who still run vintage 60's and 70's era and earlier automobiles and trucks rememeber about how they had to change fuel filters. thought you would like to know. -- I have heard once or twice before something about fuel filters, so I have asked the questions honestly, because I had heard them. Specifically, I think I have read sometimes that since ethanol sometimes has a cleaning effect where it might loosen up deposits which might then clog the fuel filter, then this might be a one-time easily fixed effect, after which the car would theoretically run better, but during which things would be worse, and appear much worse to a driver unaware of all this. That, anyway, is my recollection of the scenario. Aren't you talking of biodiesel? That's a well-known issue with biodiesel, often discussed here. Petro-diesel lays down a deposit that biodiesel frees, clogging filters at first. But I don't think gasoline lays down such a deposit and I've never heard of filter issues with ethanol. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Fwd: ETHANOL IN CALIFORNIA
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 16:38:46 EST Subject: ETHANOL IN CALIFORNIA To: (a helluva lot of people, including me) The American Coalition for Ethanol and The Clean Fuels Development Coalition are pleased to announce a workshop to be held in Sacramento California on February 6th . ETHANOL IN CALIFORNIA: OPPORTUNITIES FOR INCREASED UTILIZATION AND PRODUCTION will feature representatives from industry and government such as the California Energy Commission the California Department of Food and Agriculture General Motors Corporation, ConocoPhillips Genencor International Novozymes of North America, Inc., and others. The workshop will be held at the Radisson Hotel in Sacramento Registration fee is just $99.00. You can register online through www.ethanol.org/caconference.htmwww.ethanol.org/caconference.htm or call Wendy Buren at 605-334-3381. Hotel Registration is through the Radisson at 916-922-7353. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: (response to Keith) Re: [biofuels-biz] Biofuel Business Plan Group Kicking Off Projects NOW
Hello Andrew Keith, Thanks for your candid feedback and good ideas. Before I address your specific points and questions, let me try to clarify that the basic motivation for forming this group as I see it, through a hypothetical: On the consumer side, if I am in New York and I'm interested in questions like: a) how my kid can ride to school in a cleaner bus b) who in NY city government can I call to demand that she ride to school in a cleaner bus c) what vehicle I can buy TODAY that can be more environmentally friendly d) why the local staff of my favorite environmental organizations don't support biodiesel e) what the heck is the connection between fossil fuels and the destruction of my downtown skyline last year f) what local businesses should I patronize that are running environmentally friendly vehicles ... it is currently quite a time consuming and daunting task to find those answers, and most people with jobs and families simply aren't going to. I think we can assist people in educating themselves on local/regional-specific level, and grow our political consituency and the market demand for BD, as a result, and in turn effect greater change. Similarly, on the business side, if I am in New York and I want to start a local environmentally and socially-responsible energy business, I'm trying to assess questions like: a) what are the local market opportunities are and who (fleet owners, building managers with boilers, etc.) controls them, b) what is the local tax/incentive situation c) who is already in the business locally that I might partner or have to compete with d) how I can get effective local PR done to help my fledgling local business grow, etc.? Or if I own a local business with a vehicle fleet and I have heard of this thing called BD but don't know where to get it, I want answers to questions like: a) what my range of choices of suppliers would be b) what the difference between buying BD from soybean oil from World Energy and buying from someone that has processed recycled oil from Chinatown restaurants would be etc. In all these cases is quite difficult to find reliable answers in context to locally-specific questions such as these. The result is fewer businesses, less economical supply, less awareness, and less demand (in no particular order). There is room, and I would argue a need, for some coherence and centralization of information and sharing of resources and experience, particularly when local issues and experiences bear on national and international issues and vice-versa. There needs to be a bridge. That does not have to be a scary corporate thing, and a group of a few dozen volunteers trying to put up a central information resource online and acting as local information gatherers does not a Redmond Monster make! :) I didn't have any objection to any of this. Your original idea was fine by me, and it seemed to focus on such local/regional-level issues such as this. It's where you talked of at a local/regional level, worldwide that I saw a contradiction, and I still do, as well as a too-corporate model for the good of local/regional-level initiatives. Keith wrote: Um... I think I'd contest the idea that that would be unlike other biofuels lists. That you don't see any central organization or overt coordination doesn't mean that it doesn't achieve specific goals. Indeed it does, but not by marshalling people in any way, and that's as it should be, IMHO. It's very open, as in Open Source, and as opposed to Microsoft, but Open Source has achieved rather a lot, and so have the biofuels lists, and the very uncoordinated biofuels movement. Absolutely-- these lists are fantastic, and are making a huge difference! They are not focused on a single specific project however, and this new group is. It's neither better nor worse nor competitive. Just more specific. I'm afraid I see this rather as yet another biofuels list. I'm a little sceptical on a few counts. Your outline below entails a lot of people doing a lot of work, and sustaining it. And they won't be working at their own ideas on their own account, they'd be following someone else's plan, someone else's vision. What would be their incentive to do that? Unless you pay them. A lot of this work won't Yes there is a lot of work to be done, but I think we can all sense on these lists the power of community. When a lot of people are willing to share resources, the workload falling on any individual does not have to be so daunting. I disagree with the idea that group members won't be working at their own ideas on their own account, and that there is any need to incentivize Ulp! Don't use these horrible words Andrew! LOL! That's corp-speak, you'll frighten people away! us beyond the difference we can make in our respective communities. Yes I have laid out an idea and a plan and an invitation to begin it, but I hope, and in fact am counting on, the project being defined and
[biofuels-biz] Re: (response to Keith) Re: Biofuel Business Plan Group Kicking Off Projects NOW
Hello Hakan Pardon the snip: snip It is very few large companies that can live with entrepreneurs, the only one I have close work experiences from, was ITT, when Harold Geneen was still in charge. By the way, I was shocked by his language the only time I participated in a meeting with him, very American. What made ITT was its decentralized structure and at the time the best flexible planning, budget, accounting and follow up system. Geneen, good heavens - it's a long time since I thought of him. The Sovereign State of ITT, by Anthony Sampson, 1974 The Sovereign State of ITT (i.e., International Telephone and Telegraph) uncovers the history of a multinational that long ago became an autonomous pirate state. In the 1970s, ITT became famous, briefly, for bribing Nixon aides to back off an antitrust action, and to intervene to protect ITT interests in Allende's Chile. Sampson tells us much more -- e.g., spelling out the deals the stateless ITT cut with Hitler. It's an instructive tale. Because despite his critics, free-trader George Bush does have a vision -- one of a planet organized by corporations much like ITT, and run by men much like former ITT head Harold Geneen. Very interesting book, I read it at the time. I recall a corporate quip about Geneen which put his attitude in some perspective: Is that a G as in 'God' or as in 'Jesus'? I don't think I ever found out - which is it, Hakan? I think that your goals of helping is better served by a number of business plan templates, flexibility and adaption. Rather than standard planning and alignment. It could be a very valuable help for many and can also result in strength of a loosely knit interest organization. Yes, loosely knit. Networks and networks - the trouble with a spiderweb is that there's a spider in the middle. The type of networking the Big Biofuels guys proposed to us always had them very much in the middle. The Internet doesn't have a middle, despite all and ongoing attempt by various centralist spiders to create one for them to sit in. On that account it could just turn out to be the best thing that ever happened. regards Keith Hakan Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Fwd: [biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] Australia puts off imposing cap on ethanol in fuel
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, motie_d [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, motie_d [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can give a personal anecdote. I still drive a 1989 Chevy pickup I bought brand new. It has used almost exclusively 10% Ethanol fuel. I have replaced a Water Pump and a couple of alternators. The valve covers have never been removed. Oil has been changed every 5000 miles since new. It now is nearly a quart low when the Oil Change comes due. The majority of the driving on this vehicle is at 70-80 Mph. It currently has 220,000 miles, and runs very well. Unloaded, with no trailer, I still get 19-21 MPG with 5 speed overdrive transmission and 3.07 rearend gear ratio at 70MPH. Tires are well-balanced and aligned, and I run 45PSI in them. I have a fiberglass cap that fits very closely to the cab, and has a fairly steep forward angle on the rear for aerodynamics. I credit the tire inflation pressure and the cap for fuel economy. I don't normally use this vehicle for local driving. It is used when I need to go a long distance in a short amount of time. Motie I can also add that my Owner's Manual calls for replacing the Fuel filter every 15,000 miles. I changed it for the first time at 50,000, and have never changed it since. The current fuel filter has approximately 170,000 miles on it. The Catalytic converter has never been changed, nor has the muffler. Other than tire work, no one but myself has ever done any work on the vehicle. Maybe I'm too fussy, and should let incompetents 'work' on it a bit to hasten it's replacement? The only time it's ever been at the Dealer, is when I bought it. I Custom-ordered it, to my personal specs. When it finally wears out, I will likely build another one myself, instead of relying on Detroit to do it for me. I prefer specialized vehicles, built for their intended useage. Detroit makes too many compromises to suit me. My 2 cents, Motie --- End forwarded message ---
Fwd: Re: OT - Nation's SUV Critics Are Gaining Traction
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, coachgeo3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well said Hakan. Has anyone done a study of biodiesel and or Veg oil fuels and its affect say in marine boating use? Does either creat simular health hazards to aquatic life as does dino fuels? --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I also feel the need to say something here, since it is not really are the true off-roading that is the major energy problem. It may or may not be a problem of where it is done, but as in so many cases there are irresponsible individuals that probably does not represent the majority. I learned to drive-off road first as a teenager with tractors in the field and forest, very little on-road use for farmers/foresters and if so, definitely not for pleasure on road transportation. I enhanced my of off-road education in the military, where I learned up to large 6- 8 wheeler vehicles with trailers. I must say that I liked the off road experiences, especially in the small jeeps, and it probably added somewhat to my driving education. The problem with SUV is that probably nearly all of them never see an off road environment, it is cool to have them and there is where the stupidity starts. Many have some sort of complex that I do not want to mention, because then the flames will start to show for this email. They feel a power of some sort, in driving on-road with a SUV. It is however some that are using SUVs for towing trailers etc. and in this you can make a case for it. If you are a true responsible off-roader and only drive on-road to and from your off road environment, then you are probably using less fuel for your pleasure than the pleasure boater. So an expansion of the critics of off road driving and single this activity out, is not really productive. If the pleasure boater have the same instinct as most of the SUV owners, we can only be happy that they can't take their boats on-road. Just think about how the highways would look in rush hour, if they could go to and from work in their boats. I know that they often refer to cities as a Jungle, but I do not really think that you can motivate it as off-road environment where you need a SUV. For me you can take your SUV for off-road driving fun, but keep it exclusively for that and do not destroy/trespass without permission from landowners. Keep your SUV for your pleasure and have a fuel efficient car (preferably diesel) for your exclusive on road transportation. If you do not do that, you are irresponsible, without any doubts. Hakan At 02:22 AM 12/23/2002 +, you wrote: Jessup, If you are referring to Harmon as a Good Samaritain Green you are way off the mark. Harmon has advocated violence on many occasions. If you are going to bring up the point that you are a Good Off- roading Citizen, then you need to wear the colors of the jerk that insists on taking his vehicle through private property just for the fun of it. I was too a trail ridin' Tread Lightly off road runner. Many times I ended upside-down having the time of my life. It got too expensive for me and I decided that I would rather have tons of fun either riding my bicycle or see if I could build a moped that was capable of hauling my big butt around. I have done both and love it. If you choose to ride trails, be gentle and respectful. Also remember that you are going to be labeled with the fool that tries to do as much damage as possible with no regard to who may own the property. Just don't get into a pissing contest (sorry for the colorful language Keith) with everyone that disagrees with your views, it is not worth it. I needed to chime in on this one. fred --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, coachgeo3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So I don't scare off to easy sorry that offends you. I have the right to voice my opinion as much as others. It's called standing up for what you believe in. Gee funny that when the supposedly earth friendly Green folk stand their ground over and over it is ok but when someone against their views does it... then it is evil. Shows right there the intolerance and narrow mindedness in the air. Sounds like those that once stood their ground bashing Negro's and Gay's. Tsk Tsk. Will some never learn. You will notice that none of my words every sited that I as on offroader resorted to violence and a few of the so called Good Samaritan Green folk responses did claim to or threaten too. So who is the good people here. In fact I have never heard of an offroader even speak, or write as evil of responses as I got previously much less resort to violence or threat of it toward persons and property. The sad thing is in this post you aired out your dirty laundry like a badge to wear. And if you really want to know, I got several emails off list by other offroaders
Re: [biofuel] Re: OT - Nation's SUV Critics Are Gaining Traction
I'm going to put my $.02 in. I'm in the process of buying a '85 Toyota Land Cruiser BJ60. Why? 1) Because it will be getting better milage than the little Subarue SW I now have. 2) I have a growing family, that just fits in to the Subarue (2 adults + 2 children + 2 child safty seats makes for little room left over ), and getting the children in and out of the safty seats is diffacult enough. Forget taking friends or anyone else, no more will fit into the thing, not even another child. 3) I'll be able to use biodiesel or veg. oil in it. Funny thing, my parents bought a '85 Mercury Grand Marqui and the wheel base on it is no smaller than many of todays SUVs, and in a few cases it is bigger. Someone mentioned that it was not a case of SUV's getting bigger, but, cars getting smaller, and I can't help but think that they were correct, because in '85 the Grand Marqui was a average full size car, and now the average full size car is smaller. Greg H. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] WVO for SVO in BC
Hey Edward, Are you folks selling the Elsbit conversion now? Visited Craig one day as he was doing his first in Berkley. It was interesting. James Slayden On Fri, 20 Dec 2002, Neoteric Biofuels Inc wrote: 59 cents per liter--certainly competitive with fossil diesel fuel, but offers NO pay back on the SVO conversion. However, for someone who has the room to store over 1000 liters of SVO, it's a no mess solution. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 This is why it is good to have access to a low cost, easy to install and easy to maintain SVO system! Even if you buy ready-made oil (WVO in this case)it is affordable and you cut those emissions and fossil fuel reliance. ;-) But really, does it get any better than that? Any person who ostensibly has the environment in mind should be able to live with that. A conversion for a few hundred bucks on a vehicle that costs very little to buy and operate (if you wish) and lasts a long time? The safest fuel in existence, that reuses a resource and prevents it from being trucked out of the region? This is a no-brainer. Get a tote and have them fill it for you. We can supply the rest of the stuff you need for very little. That's the result of lot of time and effort on our part sourcing, testing, think, testing some more...(Kit, filters, pumps, etc.). Trust me, there's a lot more money in doing most anything than there is in this, but we enjoy the customers, for the most part, and we feel like we're doing our practical bit for the planet. Anyway, for someone busy, this is not a bad option, getting your oil that way. And yes, it goes to feedlots. And pet food. And cosmetics. That's the stuff that gets collected - the rest goes to the sewers or the landfill. Happy holidays, Edward Beggs http://www.biofuels.ca Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Special Alert -- Don't Delay! Register Now for the Biodiesel Research and Brainstorming Workshop
Would be nice if they had the sessions online for a marginal price package . Anyone from the NBB lurking?? ;-) James Slayden On Fri, 20 Dec 2002, murdoch wrote: If youre interested in learning about the latest biodiesel research and technical data from North Americas leading experts, register now for the Biodiesel Research and Brainstorming Workshop, January 29-30,2003, in New Orleans. Sponsored by the National Biodiesel Board (NBB), the US Department of Energy, and the US Department of Agriculture, the workshop is a must for biodiesel researchers and technical personnel, biodiesel fuel suppliers, engine and fuel injection equipment manufacturers, government agencies interested in funding biodiesel research and development, and other stakeholders. What about general all 'round alt-fuel trouble-makers? Are we excluded? :-) Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Methanol - 5-gal containers
Keith, You have aroused my curosity, and I have to ask why you say don't try for the free samples ? Greg H. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 03:47 Subject: [biofuel] Methanol - 5-gal containers Hiperfuels now sells methanol in 5-gal lots, I just got this from them (don't try for the free samples!). Keith Addison Journey to Forever Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 16:24:43 -0500 From: Jess Hewitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Methanol and Ethanol To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Can you add our website to the list of suppliers of Methanol E85 and E10 Ethanol/Gasoline blends We are now selling a lot of methanol in 5 gallon containers and some ethanol. If you would like to sample our products then let me know and I will ship you 5 gallons of any of the products for free as your site has been a great referral site for us. Thanks Jess Hewitt www.hiperfuels.com p.s. I just acquired a new web site address that is very cool: www.buybiodiesel.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: bouncing mail - was Re: co-ops was Re: [biofuel] BD at $1.50/gallon?!
actually, I am using Pine, so the graphics thing doesn't bother me. I think that it was just another Yahoo Groups pucky. It seems to happen about once every several months. Knowing some of the Yahoo folks (very cluefull people) my guess it is a server side issue just getting blown out. James Slayden On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, Keith Addison wrote: Hi James Sorry you had probs with bouncing messages. You're not the only one. I hope it's working okay now. Maybe it had something to do with this, which has had me grinding my teeth (from a big list moderators' group, where Yahell isn't exactly as popular as hot dinners): This darn green and blue e diets banner with a picture of a woman and a blue clickable asterisk! It locks up everything and leaves me with a blank screen and done at the bottom of the screen. And the Me too! I'm not actually seeing the ad cause I use Mozilla and I set it to block images from YG's ad server but I'm getting all sorts of blank pages today when I'm working on the YG website. The only thing I can do to get to my groups or to a message that I am trying to anwser is click on that stupid banner and use my back button to get to where I want to go. I've found that if I hit refresh once or twice, a new ad cycles in and the page displays properly. The ads cycle fairly quickly, every 30 seconds or so. Let's not ignore the fact that many people are likely to find the ad itself distracting, annoying, and objectionable. eDiets may have some guys ogling their model, but that's no way to convince me to do something about my big tummy. As if the ads themselves aren't annoying enough, they give us one that forces you to reload the page once or twice before you get to see anything other than the ad. :-( Sympathies to those using the web interface, or trying to. regards Keith Keith, Looks like some of my email to biofuel@yahoogroups.com is bouncing, although some are getting through. Just wanted to let ya know. James Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Methanol - 5-gal containers
Keith, You have aroused my curosity, and I have to ask why you say don't try for the free samples ? Greg H. Apologies Greg, pure laziness. I should have written something instead saying they're now suppling meth, but Jess's letter was right there saying it all so I sent that instead - including his offer to send us free samples at Journey to Forever, as he gets a lot of referrals from being listed at our supplies page. (Only then he realized that they're in the US and we're in Japan...) regards Keith - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 03:47 Subject: [biofuel] Methanol - 5-gal containers Hiperfuels now sells methanol in 5-gal lots, I just got this from them (don't try for the free samples!). Keith Addison Journey to Forever Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 16:24:43 -0500 From: Jess Hewitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Methanol and Ethanol To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Can you add our website to the list of suppliers of Methanol E85 and E10 Ethanol/Gasoline blends We are now selling a lot of methanol in 5 gallon containers and some ethanol. If you would like to sample our products then let me know and I will ship you 5 gallons of any of the products for free as your site has been a great referral site for us. Thanks Jess Hewitt www.hiperfuels.com p.s. I just acquired a new web site address that is very cool: www.buybiodiesel.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] toxins in this season U.S. corn
Of Course, if someone out there in the growing belt gets a clue . ;-O lemme see make oil, turn into biodiesel, take cake, make into ethanol, use dried mash as heat source for ethanol process, use some of ethanol for biodiesel process, use sun for heating corn SVO Dunno, seems doable. ;-) James Slayden On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, murdoch wrote: http://biz.yahoo.com/rm/021220/food_corn_toxin_1.html I wonder how they'll use some of it if it is deemed unfit for human consumption. Looks like they'll feed some of it to animals. I wonder if it can be used to make fuel. Reuters U.S. farmers form task force to fight corn toxins Friday December 20, 5:24 pm ET CHICAGO, Dec 20 (Reuters) - U.S. farmers have formed a task force to limit toxins in future corn crops after the worst outbreak of aflatoxin since 1988, an industry official said Friday. Our overall goal is to minimize the major mycotoxins (from corn) and we're going to be looking at that through a bunch of different avenues including hybrid research, said Paul Bertels, a grain quality specialist with the National Corn Growers Association. ADVERTISEMENT The task force will find ways to fund research into corn varieties resistant to toxins. It will also develop better sampling techniques at country elevators, Bertels told Reuters. The move comes after the highest levels of aflatoxin in 14 years were found in the U.S. Midwest corn crop after this summer's drought. Aflatoxin, a cancer-causing toxin found in moldy corn, can cause cancer in humans if consumed at high levels and can be deadly to young animals if they consume large amounts. It is usually found in the southern parts of the Corn Belt, especially Texas, where the crop often comes under heat stress. But this year's heat wave that plagued the heart of the Corn Belt in July and August put the Midwest crop at high risk for aflatoxin. High levels of aflatoxin were found not only in Texas and Nebraska but as far north as northern Illinois. The group will also seek to eliminate another corn mold, fumonisin, a fungus and cancer-causing substance that is also linked to human birth defects. Fumonisin is much more widespread than aflatoxin across the Midwest, thriving under heat and humid conditions. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has set aflatoxin limits for food consumption at 20 parts per billion. The maximum tolerance for livestock feed has been established at 300 parts per billion. FDA recommends fumonisin in food to be under five parts per million and under 100 parts per million in livestock feed. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] SUV, truck owners get a big tax break
Now, it certainly doesn't say gas or diesel ;-) looking at the list, the Dodge Ram 2500 seems like a nice little pickup (hehehehehe). Time to start that business Yummie: http://www.dodge.com/ram_hd/model_overview/index.html James Slayden On Sun, 22 Dec 2002, Keith Addison wrote: http://www.detnews.com/2002/autosinsider/0212/18/c01-38875.htm - 12/18/02 Wednesday, December 18, 2002 David Coates / The Detroit News Karl Wizinsky, a health care consultant in Novi, was able to write off $32,000 of the $47,000 purchase price of a Ford Excursion as a business expense. It's perfectly legal, and accountants and auto dealers are starting to catch on. SUV, truck owners get a big tax break Loophole allows hefty write-off for vehicles By Jeff Plungis / Detroit News Washington Bureau Eligible vehicles Here are the 38 light truck models that qualify for an extra $24,000 accelerated depreciation tax break: BMW X5 Cadillac Escalade Chevy Astro Chevy Avalanche Chevy Express Chevy Silverado Chevy Suburban Chevy Tahoe Dodge Durango Dodge Ram Van Dodge Ram Maxi Van Dodge Ram Wagon Dodge Ram 1500 Dodge Ram 2500 Dodge Ram 3500 Ford Excursion Ford Expedition Ford Econoline E-150 Ford Econoline E-250 Ford Econoline E-350 Ford F-150 Ford F-250 Ford F-350 GMC Yukon GMC Safari GMC Savana GMC Sierra GMC Sierra Denali Land Rover Discovery Land Rover Range Rover Lincoln Blackwood Lincoln Navigator Mercedes ML 320 Mercedes ML 500 Mercedes ML55 AMG Toyota Land Cruiser Toyota Sequoia Toyota Tundra Comment on this story Send this story to a friend Get Home Delivery WASHINGTON -- Karl Wizinsky wasn't thinking about buying a new vehicle, and certainly not a big SUV. So why is there a brand-new $47,000 Ford Excursion sitting in his driveway? He was able to write off $32,000 of the purchase price as a business expense. We really did it because it was a pretty hefty deduction, said Wizinsky, a health care consultant in Novi. At the same time the tax code sanctions $30,000 write-offs for SUVs, prospective purchasers of a fuel-efficient hybrid vehicles qualify for a relatively small $4,000 tax credit. A deal to extend similar tax credits to other environmentally friendly vehicles remains stalled in Congress. It's all legal, and accountants and auto dealers are beginning to catch on. If it can save the consumer money, it's most likely that the dealer is going to know about it, said Andrew Beck, spokesman for the National Automobile Dealers Association. So far, there is no indication anyone in Congress wants to close the loophole. In fact, even higher depreciation tax breaks are on the table as part of the next round of tax cuts President Bush is planning. The SUV tax break is becoming a staple of advice in the accounting world, as small business owners such as Wizinsky are advised on ways to reduce end-of-the-year tax bills. The size of the tax break has been growing under a schedule that became law in 1996. That's when Congress changed tax law to encourage business investment. The scale of the tax break surprises accountants and tax experts, who feel bound to recommend SUVs and other light trucks to small-business clients. As I understood it, the reason (for the tax break) is to encourage business investment. That's what happened in my case, Wizinsky said. At the same time, the tax break seems to contradict other national goals, such as improving vehicle fuel efficiency. A more economical fleet would aid two important national goals: reducing U.S. dependence on foreign oil and cutting greenhouse gasses. The total cost of the loophole hasn't been calculated by the government, but Taxpayers for Common Sense, a nonpartisan Washington watchdog group, estimates the SUV tax loophole could cost taxpayers between $840 million and $987 million for every 100,000 vehicles sold to businesses. Aileen Roder, the group's program director, questioned whether there is a national need to subsidize sales of the largest light trucks -- given Americans are buying SUVs in record numbers. This is one of the most lucrative breaks in the tax code, Roder said. We're making it a fiscal no-brainer for businesses to buy giant SUVs. To get an idea of the scale of the SUV tax break, a credit aimed at making it easier for small businesses to comply with the Americans with Disabilities Act costs $525 million per 100,000 uses. A tax credit to reimburse teachers for classroom supplies annually costs the treasury $250 million per 100,000 uses. And a provision allowing taxpayers to put up to $3,000 of tax-free earnings per year in private retirement accounts costs about $90 million per 100,000 taxpayers, according to Taxpayers for Common Sense. There are long-standing limits on deductions to prevent taxpayers from subsidizing
Re: [biofuel] Methanol - 5-gal containers
how about giving me your free sample . ;-) On Tue, 24 Dec 2002, Keith Addison wrote: Keith, You have aroused my curosity, and I have to ask why you say don't try for the free samples ? Greg H. Apologies Greg, pure laziness. I should have written something instead saying they're now suppling meth, but Jess's letter was right there saying it all so I sent that instead - including his offer to send us free samples at Journey to Forever, as he gets a lot of referrals from being listed at our supplies page. (Only then he realized that they're in the US and we're in Japan...) regards Keith - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 03:47 Subject: [biofuel] Methanol - 5-gal containers Hiperfuels now sells methanol in 5-gal lots, I just got this from them (don't try for the free samples!). Keith Addison Journey to Forever Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 16:24:43 -0500 From: Jess Hewitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Methanol and Ethanol To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Can you add our website to the list of suppliers of Methanol E85 and E10 Ethanol/Gasoline blends We are now selling a lot of methanol in 5 gallon containers and some ethanol. If you would like to sample our products then let me know and I will ship you 5 gallons of any of the products for free as your site has been a great referral site for us. Thanks Jess Hewitt www.hiperfuels.com p.s. I just acquired a new web site address that is very cool: www.buybiodiesel.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- DVD Rentals with No Late Fees - Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/.ZSp6B/dlOFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: OT - Nation's SUV Critics Are Gaining Traction
CytoCulture in Richmond California has a paper available I think (online also I think) about this subject. Mark At 04:55 AM 12/23/2002 +, you wrote: Well said Hakan. Has anyone done a study of biodiesel and or Veg oil fuels and its affect say in marine boating use? Does either creat simular health hazards to aquatic life as does dino fuels? --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I also feel the need to say something here, since it is not really are the true off-roading that is the major energy problem. It may or may not be a problem of where it is done, but as in so many cases there are irresponsible individuals that probably does not represent the majority. I learned to drive-off road first as a teenager with tractors in the field and forest, very little on-road use for farmers/foresters and if so, definitely not for pleasure on road transportation. I enhanced my of off-road education in the military, where I learned up to large 6- 8 wheeler vehicles with trailers. I must say that I liked the off road experiences, especially in the small jeeps, and it probably added somewhat to my driving education. The problem with SUV is that probably nearly all of them never see an off road environment, it is cool to have them and there is where the stupidity starts. Many have some sort of complex that I do not want to mention, because then the flames will start to show for this email. They feel a power of some sort, in driving on-road with a SUV. It is however some that are using SUVs for towing trailers etc. and in this you can make a case for it. If you are a true responsible off-roader and only drive on-road to and from your off road environment, then you are probably using less fuel for your pleasure than the pleasure boater. So an expansion of the critics of off road driving and single this activity out, is not really productive. If the pleasure boater have the same instinct as most of the SUV owners, we can only be happy that they can't take their boats on-road. Just think about how the highways would look in rush hour, if they could go to and from work in their boats. I know that they often refer to cities as a Jungle, but I do not really think that you can motivate it as off-road environment where you need a SUV. For me you can take your SUV for off-road driving fun, but keep it exclusively for that and do not destroy/trespass without permission from landowners. Keep your SUV for your pleasure and have a fuel efficient car (preferably diesel) for your exclusive on road transportation. If you do not do that, you are irresponsible, without any doubts. Hakan At 02:22 AM 12/23/2002 +, you wrote: Jessup, If you are referring to Harmon as a Good Samaritain Green you are way off the mark. Harmon has advocated violence on many occasions. If you are going to bring up the point that you are a Good Off- roading Citizen, then you need to wear the colors of the jerk that insists on taking his vehicle through private property just for the fun of it. I was too a trail ridin' Tread Lightly off road runner. Many times I ended upside-down having the time of my life. It got too expensive for me and I decided that I would rather have tons of fun either riding my bicycle or see if I could build a moped that was capable of hauling my big butt around. I have done both and love it. If you choose to ride trails, be gentle and respectful. Also remember that you are going to be labeled with the fool that tries to do as much damage as possible with no regard to who may own the property. Just don't get into a pissing contest (sorry for the colorful language Keith) with everyone that disagrees with your views, it is not worth it. I needed to chime in on this one. fred --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, coachgeo3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So I don't scare off to easy sorry that offends you. I have the right to voice my opinion as much as others. It's called standing up for what you believe in. Gee funny that when the supposedly earth friendly Green folk stand their ground over and over it is ok but when someone against their views does it... then it is evil. Shows right there the intolerance and narrow mindedness in the air. Sounds like those that once stood their ground bashing Negro's and Gay's. Tsk Tsk. Will some never learn. You will notice that none of my words every sited that I as on offroader resorted to violence and a few of the so called Good Samaritan Green folk responses did claim to or threaten too. So who is the good people here. In fact I have never heard of an offroader even speak, or write as evil of responses as I got previously much less resort to violence or threat of it toward persons and property. The sad thing is
Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] Australia puts off imposing cap on ethanol in fuel
When I lived in Illinois in the late 70's, they had just started selling Gassahol (10%eth, 90%gas), and I started using it. Within 2 months the fuel filter clogged due to the tank clearing. Just replaced the fuel filter and all was well. Didn't seem to be any effect on the rubber parts at all. BTW, I had a 350 Camaro (hopped up of course) and it did way better on the gassahol than standard petrol. I used to street race it sometimes . but that is another story better left unsaid. James Slayden On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, murdoch wrote: Trials conducted in NSW on their own vehicle fleet since 1992 by Park Petroleum, and in the wider NSW fleet since 1994, clearly indicate that the wide range of new and advanced technologies introduced into the global vehicle fleet over the past twenty years provide vehicles with the capacity to operate on higher ethanol blends without experiencing drivability or operability difficulties. This is really what I'm after. The rest, while interesting and relevant, is not at the heart of it. I'm aware, for example, that an attempt to limit things to 10%, if unwarranted, is just a pretext by the petroleum companies to keep most of their monopoly on providing fuel for transportation. One thing on my mind is that if there are any differences or effects, or even just something minor that a new user of a 20% ethanol blend might need to know in order to be better prepared for any effects, then it's arguable that they should have some labeling might help such drivers. But I guess a decent widespread publicity campaign (your fuel filter may temporarily be clogged due to long-term buildup of this or that, here is what to do about that) would also help. Why would there be damage? What damage has there been in Brazil, the US, and elsewhere, where millions or billions of miles have been driven on higher blends than that, without damage or being stopped cold by water? What damage has there been in Autralia? If there was any actual damage it would surely have been trundled out rather than an outboard motor that might stall or something. I have never used an appreciable amount of ethanol in a vehicle. Once or twice over the years I've seen angry or upset letters of drivers who have traveled to an area where ethanol was introduced to their cars and they believed it has caused a problem or two. So, I do not wish to dismiss out-of-hand the idea that there could be an adverse affect upon vehicle performance from introduction of ethanol where it has not been used before, or where its amount had previously been at lower percentages. Adverse performance might be something as simple as temporarily clogged fuel filter, or something worse that I don't appreciate. I figure I'll ask the question, since it's being raised, and since possibly others are reluctant to ask. Obviously, the over-riding issue is that the Petroleum Monopoly is being unethical and spreading disinformation. In order for me to sort the information from the disinformation (the most effective lies having just enough truth to them) I need to look around a bit. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Level Playing Fields
I think you hit upon something CONSISTENCY. And not just because a certain special interest group happens to be involved. I think that would go a long way to a level playing field. I'm not quite sure what you are referring to me doing something deliberately vs some oversight (). BTW, I really enjoyed your analogy of the table having warps and curves!! Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip-- Moreover, an accurate description would be a much more complex table with a lot of warps and curves in it, not too mention its overall tilt which is fairly difficult to discern, what with all the warps and curves and dips and valleys and what-not. --snip--- I take what I think is a not hypocritical point of view that if someone wants to advocate some specific industry's free-ing up, such as for example drilling in ANWR, then they at least ought be more willing to do this consistently, and not just that particular instance of free-ing up of industry. Here again, I'd want to ask to make sure: are you aware that I posted this to three groups and you paired it down to one? I understand that you may not belong to evworld.com but I just want to make sure that this was deliberate on your part and not some oversight. - Introducing NetZero Long Distance 1st month Free! Sign up today at: www.netzerolongdistance.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Level Playing Fields
Whoa Keith!! Now THAT'S another story (but true though). Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] How often does one hear people talking about level playing fields except when it's already on the level but they want it slanted their way? Keith - Introducing NetZero Long Distance 1st month Free! Sign up today at: www.netzerolongdistance.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] A DPV - Dog Powered Vehicle, (Fer Real)
I have to share this one with you: http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/oxcart.jpg Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 9:11 PM Subject: [biofuel] A DPV - Dog Powered Vehicle, (Fer Real) This is from one of the frame builders off of my HPV group. I thought it was so creative that I just had to share it with all of you. fred Since the list is a bit slow lately, I thought I'd mention my latest commission. A DPV (Dog Powered Vehicle). http://www.stan3d.com/nudgecart/nudgecart.htm Nudge weighs 180 lbs and is 34 tall at the shoulders. He has cancer in one front leg. The wheels are 16 and 10. He is so Protective (ie. nasty) that they have to walk him late at night when there is no one around. They live 2 houses down from us and I've never seen the dog in person. The owner said that If I want to see the cart in action they would phone me the next time they go out. But I would have to stay across the street to avoid setting him off. Mark Stonich; BikeSmith Design Fabrication http://bikesmithdesign.com MNHPVA RECUMBENTS MINNESOTA Home Page: http://www.mnhpva.org Group Page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RecumbentsMN Post message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send a blank message to: recumbentsmn- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Level Playing Fields
I'm not quite sure what you are referring to me doing something deliberately vs some oversight (). I was just asking a question relating to your perception of how you access this group computer-wise. You see, at some point I posted one of my notes in this thread not only to the biofuel discussion area but also to the biofuel-biz group and also the evworld.com group of which I am a moderator. I do this when I think that the ideas may pertain to those groups as well. (Sometimes I'm wrong, but I try to do my best to guage it). You could see this if you access this group via email and have your email set to look at some of the header info. Here is the info from that post that I made: To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Re: SUV, truck owners get a big tax break From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 19:55:14 -0800 Cc: biofuel@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Now, I talked about this recently here with Keith because I've found that a lot of folks are not responsive to this crossposting and simply reply only within one group, whereas they could easily reply to all (if they're accessing via email) and reply to all those groups in which they are registered. So, for example, if you wanted to share your ideas with the biofuel-biz group and thought they'd be relevant, you could have cc'd your post to them, assuming you have joined. If you didn't belong to one of the groups then you would have to leave them out of the cc or I guess it would get rejected. I think that crossposting can be valuable where a sort of cross-fertilization of ideas may be welcomed by some (even if not by all). Sometimes, for example, I have tried crossposting to the renewable energy group, but frankly I get the impression that the moderator there just isn't that into it. So anyway, that's what I was referring to. I think sometimes there is a perception that group participants are choosing not to crosspost when in fact they don't understand what it is or how to do it. For all I know, you're accessing this group via the web instead of via email, as I haven't taken a hard look at your header info. I'm not sure if this would preclude crossposting but it would almost certainly mean that you could enjoy the group more by transitioning to an email use of it. MM Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] toxins in this season U.S. corn
Hi James, MM Of Course, if someone out there in the growing belt gets a clue . ;-O Whisper in their ear James! lemme see make oil, turn into biodiesel, take cake, make into ethanol, use dried mash as heat source for ethanol process, use some of ethanol for biodiesel process, use sun for heating corn SVO Dunno, seems doable. ;-) Yes, seems very doable. Unless the mould is very advanced I don't think it will have done much physical damage to the grain, mostly no real damage at all, just danger from physically very small amounts. Should still be plenty of carbohydrate and oil. I posted this previously: 1 Bushel of corn = 3.6 gallons of fuel oil. A typical bushel of corn weighs 56 pounds. 1 bushel provides 2.5 gallons of ethanol fuel, 14.4 pounds of feed, 1.6 pounds of corn oil. (Of course it needn't take 3.6 gallons of fuel oil to produce 1 bushel of corn, nor any at all, but it does.) Funny, with all this crap put about by David Pimentel on the alleged energy inefficiency of ethanol from corn (NOT), I've never seen the corn oil brought into the picture. Different lobbies I suppose, ne'er the twain shall meet. Also this: Now there's some discussion with a chemical engineer in Brazil about it. He's working with a factory making ethanol from corn and producing 30 thousand liters per month of non-refined corn oil, stored or used as fertilizer in the sugar-cane crop, of all things. So it seems the corn oil is indeed regarded as a waste product from ethanol production. They haven't even thought of using it for process heat. If they did, and made biodiesel from the excess (looks like there'd be an excess), that would rather change the energy efficiency of the corn distillation and the economics of both operations. I think we'lll be hearing more about this soon. Something I got interested in is putting the mash in a biogas digester and using the biogas for process heat, perhaps for both ethanol and biodiesel. I wonder if there'd be enough. At least you wouldn't have to dry the mash. The biogas sludge could be recycled to crop growth (preferably after hot-composting). I think there are many gains to be made by picking up all the inefficiencies of large-scale production and of industrial agriculture generally. Wherever you look there's waste, particularly of fossil-fuel resources. It's a question whether farmers should be growing maize and soy anyway. How much of this aflataxin problem is real rather than just symptomatic of a sick production system? Aflatoxin - Aspergillus FLAvus TOXIN - comes from aspergillus moulds which attack stressed crops (or poorly stored or poorly grown grains), stressed by drought in this case. I've often heard it said that organic farmers in the US never qualify for drought relief. Deep soils rich in organic matter and humus with a healthy pore structure retain and use moisture long after the crops struggling along in the murdered soils at the industrialized farm next door have wilted from thirst. (The organic soils don't flood and wash away in heavy rains either, they just drink it in.) Crops growing in good organic soils are much less stress-prone, whatever the source of stress. One source says of aflatoxin problems: Since only damaged or stressed crops are affected, doesn't it make sense to build up soil fertility and the health of the plant? Surely it does make sense. Here's another story about it: http://www.agriculture.com/default.sph/AgNews.class?FNC=goDetail__ANew sindex_html___49055___1 Illinois issues aflatoxin warning It's mostly animal feed, of course, but if you're eating this stuff you're at risk. The USDA says: The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has set aflatoxin limits for food consumption at 20 parts per billion. The maximum tolerance for livestock feed has been established at 300 parts per billion. But as Kirk said: There is no safe level of aflatoxin. The comment can cause cancer in humans if consumed at high levels is misleading. You don't want any at all. That's right, no safe level. It's carcinogenic - one type of aflatoxin, B1, is the most powerful cancer-causing agent known. Scientists have been concerned about its hazards in human and animal foods at even the lowest detectable amount, 0.1 part per billion. How can the safe levels for humans and for livestock be different? I'm sure it's just that risk to livestock is seen as more acceptable. But when animals eat aflatoxins, most of it is excreted, but some appears in milk (and in cheese and other dairy products), eggs from chickens, and in the meat. This is the same kind of strange reasoning that says it's okay to feed WVO to livestock - apart from the cannibal aspect that it contains animal residues (now at last being addressed because of Mad Cow Disease), how can those high FFA levels be not safe for humans but safe for livestock that will be eaten by humans? James, you were talking in another post of
[biofuel] Fwd: Ethanol and Fuel Filters
Randy sent me this, which I didn't know about: Hi Keith a long time ago. When leaded gasoline was still sold under the label 'Regular', the gasoline would leave a varnish inside of the gas tank and fuel lines. High octane gasoline was called Ethyl, because of the additive tetra ethyl lead. These additives left deposits inside containers. In the early 1980's, when regular gasoline was disappearing from availability, and there were still older cars that required high octane gasoline to operate right, 10 percent ethanol / gasoline blends started appearing. This was also during the time of Arab oil embargos and gasoline rationing and the first occurance of high fule prices in the United States. The higher octane ratings attracted the consumers driving mid 70's vehicles and when they started running ethanol blended fuels, the ethanol acted as a cleaning solvent and deposited the varnish in the fuel filter. It also plugged up more than one small engine fuel filter because they were often stored over winter with gasoline in their tanks The varnish would build up pretty thick and come out in a thick slime. also the neoprene floats inside of carburetors would soak up the ethanol and become very 'heavy'. The hollow copper or brass floats were uneffected. It took the industry about a year to fix the chemical formula for the neoprene.But now adays with fuel injected gasoline engines, the floats are eliminated from the assembly. Newer varieties of unleaded gasoline do not seem to leave the same residue. Since the late 1970's / early 1980's all new gasoline powered cars leaving Detroit are required to burn unleaded gas. So the new fuel tanks are not coated with the same gunk as they were before. These are 'old' problems. 'antiquers' who still run vintage 60's and 70's era and earlier automobiles and trucks rememeber about how they had to change fuel filters. thought you would like to know. -- I have heard once or twice before something about fuel filters, so I have asked the questions honestly, because I had heard them. Specifically, I think I have read sometimes that since ethanol sometimes has a cleaning effect where it might loosen up deposits which might then clog the fuel filter, then this might be a one-time easily fixed effect, after which the car would theoretically run better, but during which things would be worse, and appear much worse to a driver unaware of all this. That, anyway, is my recollection of the scenario. Aren't you talking of biodiesel? That's a well-known issue with biodiesel, often discussed here. Petro-diesel lays down a deposit that biodiesel frees, clogging filters at first. But I don't think gasoline lays down such a deposit and I've never heard of filter issues with ethanol. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
industrial livestock husbandry was: Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] toxins in this season U.S. corn
I;m starting to really get the picture that the jerks (some of them no doubt well-intentioned) who developed America's current model of industrial agriculture had just a little bit of 'playing god' going on. 'Carnivorous' cows? (ie cannibalistic practices in feed) Cows that are fed their own manure as a 'protein supplement'? Factory farmed salmon, for instance- almost the opposite of the cows described below. The practice involves taking an obviously carnivorous fish, confining it and feeding it a vegetarian diet (probably some kind of waste product, I imagine). The result is salmon with no color, which are then dyed red to make the meat attractive to consumers. Disgusting. Mark A lot of animal manure gets compounded into livestock feeds, also biogas sludge. What they do is measure the protein content and if it's enough it must therefore make good feed, wherever it comes from. Actually it's complicated to measure the protein content, so instead they measure the nitrogen content (N) and multiply by 6.25, which is the proportion of N in protein. But it's a bit of an assumption that all of it will be protein, a lot of it is probably just nitrates and nitrites (which aren't good for you!). Too much soluble nitrogen or urea in feed causes high blood urea or ammonia levels, leading to reduced resistance to bacterial infection, and I'd say that's just a part of it. Albrecht of Missouri, the doyen of soils scientists, pointed out that cattle avoid eating the taller and greener grass growing round manure pies in the pasture because the plants' fertility is out of balance, with too much nitrogen provided by the manure. Cows are competent chemists, he wrote, and proved it too. More competent than chemists maybe. Anyway feeding grain and high-protein supplements to ruminants just doesn't make any sense, they're made to eat grass, to turn low-protein feed into high-protein meat, and they're brilliant at it. They don't thrive on this high-protein stuff, though they might appear to. But look at all the problems. If you graze them, you get much healthier animals, much healthier meat, good production, low costs, and after a couple of years there's enough sheer fertility in that pasture to grow six years of succeeding crops without any further inputs. That's the whole basis of the mixed-farming rotation that's now been abandoned in favour of this wasteful, troublesome, expensive and unhealthy industrialized junk. AND if you do it this way livestock production isn't wasteful, as alleged by Pimentel et al, giving good (?) food to animals instead of to hungry people: with mixed-farming rotations the animals provide very much more food than they consume (only grass), in both animal products and the succeeding crops. Rational. A good example of the problems with industrialized livestock production is the killer E. coli O157:H7 bacteria. Cornell University found that virulent strains of E. coli develop in the digestive tract of cattle mainly fed with starchy grain. Cows mainly fed with hay generate less than 1% of the E. coli found in the faeces of grain-fed animals. Nearly all cases of E. coli 0157:H7 poisoning result from contaminated meat from industrial factory farms and meat processing plants. USDA vets say 80 to 100% of feedlot cattle tested carried the deadly 0157:H7 strain. Meanwhile researchers have found that pesticide sprays encourage life-threatening bacteria to grow on crops, including E. coli O157:H7, increasing bacteria counts as much as one-thousandfold. Etc etc. If the aflatoxin doesn't get you something else probably will! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: industrial livestock husbandry was: Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] toxins in this season U.S. corn
I;m starting to really get the picture that the jerks (some of them no doubt well-intentioned) who developed America's current model of industrial agriculture had just a little bit of 'playing god' going on. Yes, and they still do (GMOs, eg). As for their intentions, how about this? From the 1930's to the 1960's the free-range system was the popular way to raise poultry in the United states. It produced meaty, tender birds at a reasonable cost, using a reasonable amount of labor and providing valuable fertility to the land. Many farmers raised 10,000-20,000 birds per year on short-grass pasture (range), both chickens and turkeys. With the rise of industrial agriculture and the development of the confinement broiler barn, this sustainable and profitable system was discontinued by means of withdrawing growers contracts. Left with no market or processing facilities the practice was abandoned within two or three years. But the way it's been presented to the world is that the old ways were less efficient. Actually they were more efficient, in more ways than one, lacking, for instance, this current feature of the efficient industrialized poultry production systems: We don't need terrorists, we have industrial food suppliers. Or is it possible that turkeys have become the weapon of choice for terrorists? How can we call a food system sustainable that sickens an estimated 1.3 million Americans, hospitalizes 15,000, and kills 500 just from Salmonella every year? Maybe it would be a good time to switch to something besides a commercial turkey for Thanksgiving dinner. http://www.cspinet.org/new/200211211.html Let alone the manure lakes, groundwater pollution, etc etc etc. In France, for instance, in 2000, over 20% of all poultry (90 million birds) was profitably, cleanly and safely raised using the old free-range system. Not good intentions, thuggery and incompetence. 'Carnivorous' cows? (ie cannibalistic practices in feed) Cows that are fed their own manure as a 'protein supplement'? Not sure about their own manure, certainly chicken manure. Pigs are fed their own manure. Factory farmed salmon, for instance- almost the opposite of the cows described below. The practice involves taking an obviously carnivorous fish, confining it and feeding it a vegetarian diet (probably some kind of waste product, I imagine). The result is salmon with no color, which are then dyed red to make the meat attractive to consumers. I think a major problem with factory farmed salmon is that they're NOT fed a vegetarian diet - they're fed on enormous quantities of wild fish, with a very poor conversion factor, greatly helping to empty the oceans like some giant vacuum cleaner of no avail. I don't have all this at my fingertips, let me dig a bit on my hard disk. Hm. I think this applies to salmon. First, aquaculture is a highly polluting industry, just as industrialized farming is. Aquaculture is now the source of 27% of seafood consumed by people worldwide, since more than a quarter of wild fish harvests are used in animal feed. Feeding fish to cows? Certainly to pigs and poultry. The Worldwatch Institute says it takes about five grams of fish protein -- converted into fishmeal -- to make a gram of farmed fish protein. I have an idea that one waste-product (?) of the fishmeal industry might be large amounts of fish-oil. No use for biodiesel or SVO (polymerises like linseed oil) but I guess it could be used for generation, even if via gasifiers. This defines it, IMO: 'Bycatch' -- the collateral damage of industrialised fishing: Around the world, each year, 44 billion pounds of fish plus hundreds of thousands of other marine animals are thrown overboard, dead and dying. Twenty-five percent of the entire world catch is wasted this way. Efficiencies of scale, yeah. When applied to sheer wastefulness maybe. Disgusting. Yes, extremely disgusting. :-( Regards Keith Mark A lot of animal manure gets compounded into livestock feeds, also biogas sludge. What they do is measure the protein content and if it's enough it must therefore make good feed, wherever it comes from. Actually it's complicated to measure the protein content, so instead they measure the nitrogen content (N) and multiply by 6.25, which is the proportion of N in protein. But it's a bit of an assumption that all of it will be protein, a lot of it is probably just nitrates and nitrites (which aren't good for you!). Too much soluble nitrogen or urea in feed causes high blood urea or ammonia levels, leading to reduced resistance to bacterial infection, and I'd say that's just a part of it. Albrecht of Missouri, the doyen of soils scientists, pointed out that cattle avoid eating the taller and greener grass growing round manure pies in the pasture because the plants' fertility is out of balance, with too much nitrogen provided by the manure. Cows are competent chemists, he wrote, and proved it too.
