Re: [Biofuel] Disney
Keith, contrary to what you appear to think, I do my home work every day. That's how I'm able to see through the lies, double standards. If any media organization in this country publishes/broadcasts TOP SECRET information purely designed to aid the enemy, then their "proctection" goes right out the window they should be prosectued as traitors. Lately, The New York Times comes to mind as having done something like this. It seems as long as a President has a "D" next to his name, he can do NO wrong. Yeah, right, I have some swamp land out in New Mexico I'd like to sell you.I'll address your other e-mails later as I have to leave for work now. The stimulation is fun.Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No Keith, that's not what I'm saying.A lie is a lie, regardless of who tells it. If President Bush did the things that made Clinton famous, or infamous, I'd be screaming for him to be impreached too. There are things that the President is doing, as well as not doing, that I take exception to. I don't see the present administration threatening to pull the license of a broadcast network, or trying violate ABC's First Amendment Right, but the Democrat/Liberals are. They're calling out the figurative Storm Troopers, which is the typical scare tactic.Er, you haven't noticed the current administration's antics with the FCC, eg, and with just about every media protection the US ever had? Maybe you sh (a) wake up just a little and (b) do some homework (a helluva lot) - the list archives is a great place to start.BestKeithKeith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: I hope Disney grows some major cojones, ones the size of 16lb bowling balls, calls the Democrat/Liberal bluff, runs the mini series anyway. Sounds to me like the Clinton Admistration's Legacy will stand up to what's in the mini series like a vampire does to sunlight.So Gregg, it doesn't matter if it's all lies and disinfo just as longas it supports the good guys (Republicans) and attacks the evil ones(Clinton), is that what you're saying?BestKeith Mike Weaver wrote: This letter was sent today by the entire Democratic leadership of the US Senate. This letter is such a major shot across the bow of Disney, it's not even funny. It is FILLED with veiled threats, both legal and legislative, against Disney. US Senators don't make threats like this, especially the entire Democratic leadership en masse, unless they mean it. Disney is in serious trouble.Read it, then read my analysis of it below: September 7, 2006Mr. Robert A. Iger President and CEO The Walt Disney Company 500 South Buena Vista Street Burbank CA 91521Dear Mr. Iger,We write with serious concerns about the planned upcoming broadcast of The Path to 9/11 mini-series on September 10 and 11. Countless reports from experts on 9/11 who have viewed the program indicate numerous and serious inaccuracies that will undoubtedly serve to misinform the American people about the tragic events surrounding the terrible attacks of that day. Furthermore, the manner in which this program has been developed, funded, and advertised suggests a partisan bent unbecoming of a major company like Disney and a major and well respected news organization like ABC. We therefore urge you to cancel this broadcast to cease Disneyâ*s plans to use it as a teaching tool in schools across America through Scholastic. Presenting such deeply flawed and factually inaccurate misinformation to the American public and to children would be a gross miscarriage of your corporate and civic responsibility to the law, to your shareholders, and to the nation.The Communications Act of 1934 provides your network with a free broadcast license predicated on the fundamental understanding of your principle obligation to act as a trustee of the public airwaves in serving the public interest. Nowhere is this public interest obligation more apparent than in the duty of broadcasters to serve the civic needs of a democracy by promoting an open and accurate discussion of political ideas and events.Disney and ABC claim this program to be based on the 9/11 Commission Report and are using that assertion as part of the promotional campaign for it. The 9/11 Commission is the most respected American authority on the 9/11 attacks, and association with it carries a special responsibility. Indeed, the very events themselves on 9/11, so tragic as they were, demand extreme care by any who attempt to use those events as part of an entertainment or educational program. To quote Steve McPhereson, president of ABC Entertainment, â*When you take on the responsibility of telling the story behind such an important event, it is absolutely critical that you get it right.â*Unfortunately, it appears Disney and ABC got it totally wrong.Despite claims by your networkâ*s representatives that The Path to 9/11 is based on the report of the 9/11 Commission, 9/11 Commissioners
Re: [Biofuel] Disney
Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gregg, I don't mean to get you too upset. But, hypocracy runs thick when it comes to this mini-series. I don't doubt that Clinton's administration could have done things differently but remember, the attack came on BushCo's watch and the seeds were planted over several years.On Sunday, September 10, 2006 6:28 PM, Gregg Davidson wrote: Bush Lied! Bush Lied!! Bush Lied!!! Can't you people come up with something better than that?Its interesting, they impeached Clinton for a lie. The country was outraged at such an atrocity as a lie to the nation. Would you suggest a lie about illicit sex is worse then a lie that has led to the deaths of the US's service men and women? Clinton was never impeached, he remained in office.He basically received a "slap on the wrist" and was disbarred for a short period of time. Our military personnel knew what they were getting into when they VOLUNTEERED for service. Nobody was drafted.I believe some foreign civilians might have been killed too, just in case anyone's interested. Yes, you're quite right, as aresult of Clinton bombing an aspirin/ibuprofen/acetominaphine factory. I do not dispute that Iraqi civilians have been killed. Unfortunately, when cowardly terrorist hide among civilians it's impossible to keep that from happening.ICH: 62,006 - 180,000, The number killed in the 'war on terror'http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14906.htmNumber Of Iraqi Civilians Slaughtered In America's War? As Many As 250,000http://www.marchforjustice.com/shockawe.phpEg. And the rest!All strangely invisible from within the borders of the US somehow.BestKeithOr a lie about why 3000 people lost their lives in 9/11? I'm so sorry we pissed off "Uncle" Osama. We'd better not make him mad or he'll do some really mean like call the ACLU on us.Hey, I would love to see Osama captured. But blaming his actions on one presidency only serves those who would hide from the truth. And my suggestion that Clinton was no more at fault then the two presidents previous to him (not even including Eisenhower's successful attempt at destabilizing Iran) still stands. Thus, to propagate a story that places blame for 9/11 at the feet of the Clinton administration is not only unfair but down right unpatriotic and un-American. Its deplorable to those who suffered loss to lie about why and how it happened.Clinton did more to embolden OBL than any President we've had. Cutting Running is Game Plan #1 in the Democrat/Liberal Playbook.-dave___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Disney
Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gregg, I don't mean to get you too upset. But, hypocracy runs thick when it comes to this mini-series. I don't doubt that Clinton's administration could have done things differently but remember, the attack came on BushCo's watch and the seeds were planted over several years.On Sunday, September 10, 2006 6:28 PM, Gregg Davidson wrote: Bush Lied! Bush Lied!! Bush Lied!!! Can't you people come up with something better than that?Its interesting, they impeached Clinton for a lie. The country was outraged at such an atrocity as a lie to the nation. Would you suggest a lie about illicit sex is worse then a lie that has led to the deaths of the US's service men and women? Clinton was never impeached, he remained in office.He basically received a "slap on the wrist" and was disbarred for a short period of time. Our military personnel knew what they were getting into when they VOLUNTEERED for service. Nobody was drafted.I believe some foreign civilians might have been killed too, just in case anyone's interested. Yes, you're quite right, as aresult of Clinton bombing an aspirin/ibuprofen/acetominaphine factory. I do not dispute that Iraqi civilians have been killed. Unfortunately, when cowardly terrorist hide among civilians it's impossible to keep that from happening.ICH: 62,006 - 180,000, The number killed in the 'war on terror'http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14906.htmNumber Of Iraqi Civilians Slaughtered In America's War? As Many As 250,000http://www.marchforjustice.com/shockawe.phpEg. And the rest!All strangely invisible from within the borders of the US somehow.BestKeithOr a lie about why 3000 people lost their lives in 9/11? I'm so sorry we pissed off "Uncle" Osama. We'd better not make him mad or he'll do some really mean like call the ACLU on us.Hey, I would love to see Osama captured. But blaming his actions on one presidency only serves those who would hide from the truth. And my suggestion that Clinton was no more at fault then the two presidents previous to him (not even including Eisenhower's successful attempt at destabilizing Iran) still stands. Thus, to propagate a story that places blame for 9/11 at the feet of the Clinton administration is not only unfair but down right unpatriotic and un-American. Its deplorable to those who suffered loss to lie about why and how it happened.Clinton did more to embolden OBL than any President we've had. Cutting Running is Game Plan #1 in the Democrat/Liberal Playbook.-dave___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Disney
While I do not subscribe to your theory that all presidents are idiots, I do think that some are a lot smarter than others. When you run away froma bully, you only embolden him that much more. I hope that it DOES NOT take another 9/11 to wake folks up.Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: oh, PLEASE, you two. why cant we agree that all presidents are idiots no matter how many degrees they have(or dont have), and also agree that the present one has stepped in a pretty big pile. and "we the people" usually get caught in the middle regardless of affiliation,?this would be a REAL step in the right direction.JasonICQ#: 154998177MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]- Original Message - From: Gregg DavidsonTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 6:21 PMSubject: Re: [Biofuel] DisneyMike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:Yeah! And I wish Clinton's legacy would stop forcing us to borrow allthat money - what is it - 2 billion a week?And I'm really mad about Clinton's Legacy making up all those storiesabout WMD in Iraq! "Der Schlickmeister" didn't make up any stories during his reign. Everything he said was honest to God fact.And I really wish Clinton's Legacy would follow through on its promiseto catch Osama bin Laden. I do too. He was only interested in getting BJ's in the "Oral Orifice".Stop it, Clinton's Legacy, Stop it now! You're all to blame. I'm not at fault, I wasn't dumb enough to vote for him.Gregg Davidson wrote: I hope Disney grows some major cojones, ones the size of 16lb bowling balls, calls the Democrat/Liberal bluff, runs the mini series anyway. Sounds to me like the Clinton Admistration's Legacy will stand up to what's in the mini series like a vampire does to sunlight. */Mike Weaver /* wrote: This letter was sent today by the entire Democratic leadership of the US Senate. This letter is such a major shot across the bow of Disney, it's not even funny. It is FILLED with veiled threats, both legal and legislative, against Disney. US Senators don't make threats like this, especially the entire Democratic leadership en masse, unless they mean it. Disney is in serious trouble. Read it, then read my analysis of it below: September 7, 2006 Mr. Robert A. Iger President and CEO The Walt Disney Company 500 South Buena Vista Street Burbank CA 91521 Dear Mr. Iger, We write with serious concerns about the planned upcoming broadcast of The Path to 9/11 mini-series on September 10 and 11. Countless reports from experts on 9/11 who have viewed the program indicate numerous and serious inaccuracies that will undoubtedly serve to misinform the American people about the tragic events surrounding the terrible attacks of that day. Furthermore, the manner in which this program has been developed, funded, and advertised suggests a partisan bent unbecoming of a major company like Disney and a major and well respected news organization like ABC. We therefore urge you to cancel this broadcast to cease Disneyâs plans to use it as a teaching tool in schools across America through Scholastic. Presenting such deeply flawed and factually inaccurate misinformation to the American public and to children would be a gross miscarriage of your corporate and civic responsibility to the law, to your shareholders, and to the nation. The Communications Act of 1934 provides your network with a free broadcast license predicated on the fundamental understanding of your principle obligation to act as a trustee of the public airwaves in serving the public interest. Nowhere is this public interest obligation more apparent than in the duty of broadcasters to serve the civic needs of a democracy by promoting an open and accurate discussion of political ideas and events. Disney and ABC claim this program to be based on the 9/11 Commission Report and are using that assertion as part of the promotional campaign for it. The 9/11 Commission is the most respected American authority on the 9/11 attacks, and association with it carries a special responsibility. Indeed, the very events themselves on 9/11, so tragic as they were, demand extreme care by any who attempt to use those events as part of an entertainment or educational program. To quote Steve McPhereson, president of ABC Entertainment, âWhen you take on the responsibility of telling the story behind such an important event, it is absolutely critical that you get it right.â Unfortunately, it appears Disney and ABC got it totally wrong. Despite claims by your networkâs representatives that The Path to 9/11 is based on the report of the 9/11 Commission, 9/11 Commissioners themselves, as well as other experts on the issues, disagree. Richard Ben-Veniste, speaking for himself and fellow 9/11 Commissioners who recently viewed the program, said, âAs we were watching, we were trying to think how they could have misinterpreted the 9/11 Commissionâs findings the way that they had.â [â9/11 Miniseries Is Criticized as Inaccurate and Biased,â New York Times,
Re: [Biofuel] Disney
Themain reason that so many civilians in Iraq were killed is because cowardly terrorist hide among them, which gives them their "15 minutes of Al Jezera Face Time". DHAJOGLO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Very good point, Keith. Though, invisible would give us an excuse. I would say conveniently ignored.From: Keith AddisonI believe some foreign civilians might have been killed too, just incase anyone's interested.ICH: 62,006 - 180,000, The number killed in the 'war on terror'http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14906.htmNumber Of Iraqi Civilians Slaughtered In America's War? As Many As 250,000http://www.marchforjustice.com/shockawe.phpEg. And the rest!All strangely invisible from within the borders of the US somehow.BestKeith___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Disney
Paul S Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gregg,Boy, that hindsight sure is 20/20, isn't it? If Clinton knew what was coming on 9/11, of course he would have ordered the shot, but at the time, Pearl Harbor was the last attack on US soil.He knew. When you tuck tail run from a bully, sooner or later, he'll be knocking at your door.The Jihad that would have come from 'taking Osama' would have rivaled 9/11 several times over. Real Presidents weigh perceived costs versus gains withe information available.Maybe yes, maybe no. Clinton had no intention of taking OBL because he wanted him prosecuted in the criminal justice system because like other Liberals he consideredOBLto bea criminal.Pretend Presidents declare war on nouns.You forgot aspirin/ibuprofen/acetometephine factories empty buildings. On 9/10/06, Gregg Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not upset. I know that Clinton wouldn't take Osama on a silver platter 3 times. The atack may have come come on Bush's watch, but the inaction came on Clinton's, the first WTC bombing, Simalia, the USS Cole. I'm sure there is more than that. The Dems/Libs would try the same thing if God Himself told what happened. DHAJOGLO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gregg, I don't mean to get you too upset. But, hypocracy runs thick when it comes to this mini-series. I don't doubt that Clinton's administration could have done things differently but remember, the attack came on BushCo's watch and the seeds were planted over several years. On Sunday, September 10, 2006 6:28 PM, Gregg Davidson wrote: Bush Lied! Bush Lied!! Bush Lied!!! Can't you people come up with something better than that?Its interesting, they impeached Clinton for a lie. The country was outraged at such an atrocity as a lie to the nation. Would you suggest a lie about illicit sex is worse then a lie that has led to the deaths of the US's service men and women? Or a lie about why 3000 people lost their lives in 9/11? I'm so sorry we pissed off "Uncle" Osama. We'd better not make him mad or he'll do some really mean like call the ACLU on us.Hey, I would love to see Osama captured. But blaming his actions on one presidency only serves those who would hide from the truth. And my suggestion that Clinton was no more at fault then the two presidents previous to him (not even including Eisenhower's successful attempt at destabilizing Iran) still stands. Thus, to propagate a story that places blame for 9/11 at the feet of the Clinton administration is not only unfair but down right unpatriotic and un-American. Its deplorable to those who suffered loss to lie about why and how it happened.-dave___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/-- Thanks,PCHe's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switchThe genius of you Americans is that you never make clear-cut stupid moves, only complicated stupid moves which make us wonder at the possibility that there may be something to them which we are missing. - Gamal Abdel Nasser ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Do you Yahoo!? Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Disney
"D. Mindock" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gregg,Why did you introduce a couple red herrings? Sorry my reference to swampland New Mexico irritated you.It seems that you are only interested inwinning an argument. You will never arrive at the truth that way. Also you will never "win";not on this forum anyway. My two cents.Winning was the last thing on my mind. I already know the truththanks to being where I can "do my homework" as suggested.It's a no win situation, I can't persaude you to think for yourself, you can't brainwash me with all this "hate America first Bush bashing".Peace, D. Mindock P.S. Leave your ego at the door before entering "Journey to Forever".You'll have a much smoother ride that way.I have no ego that requires stroking, so your admonishment "machts nich".- Original Message - From: Gregg DavidsonTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Monday, September 11, 2006 4:51 AMSubject: Re: [Biofuel] DisneyKeith, contrary to what you appear to think, I do my home work every day. That's how I'm able to see through the lies, double standards. If any media organization in this country publishes/broadcasts TOP SECRET information purely designed to aid the enemy, then their "proctection" goes right out the window they should be prosectued as traitors. Lately, The New York Times comes to mind as having done something like this. It seems as long as a President has a "D" next to his name, he can do NO wrong. Yeah, right, I have some swamp land out in New Mexico I'd like to sell you.I'll address your other e-mails later as I have to leave for work now. The stimulation is fun.Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:No Keith, that's not what I'm saying.A lie is a lie, regardless of who tells it. If President Bush didthe things that made Clinton famous, or infamous, I'd be screamingfor him to be impreached too. There are things that the President isdoing, as well as not doing, that I take exception to. I don't seethe present administration threatening to pull the license ofa broadcast network, or trying violate ABC's First AmendmentRight, but the Democrat/Liberals are. They're calling out thefigurative Storm Troopers, which is the typical scare tactic.Er, you haven't noticed the current administration's antics with theFCC, eg, and with just about every media protection the US ever had?Maybe you sh (a) wake up just a little and (b) do some homework (ahelluva lot) - the list archives is a great place to start.BestKeithKeith Addison wrote: I hope Disney grows some major cojones, ones the size of 16lb bowling balls, calls the Democrat/Liberal bluff, runs the mini series anyway. Sounds to me like the Clinton Admistration's Legacy will stand up to what's in the mini series like a vampire does to sunlight.So Gregg, it doesn't matter if it's all lies and disinfo just as longas it supports the good guys (Republicans) and attacks the evil ones(Clinton), is that what you're saying?BestKeith Mike Weaver wrote: This letter was sent today by the entire Democratic leadership of the US Senate. This letter is such a major shot across the bow of Disney, it's not even funny. It is FILLED with veiled threats, both legal and legislative, against Disney. US Senators don't make threats like this, especially the entire Democratic leadership en masse, unless they mean it. Disney is in serious trouble.Read it, then read my analysis of it below: September 7, 2006Mr. Robert A. Iger President and CEO The Walt Disney Company 500 South Buena Vista Street Burbank CA 91521Dear Mr. Iger,We write with serious concerns about the planned upcoming broadcast of The Path to 9/11 mini-series on September 10 and 11. Countless reports from experts on 9/11 who have viewed the program indicate numerous and serious inaccuracies that will undoubtedly serve to misinform the American people about the tragic events surrounding the terrible attacks of that day. Furthermore, the manner in which this program has been developed, funded, and advertised suggests a partisan bent unbecoming of a major company like Disney and a major and well respected news organization like ABC. We therefore urge you to cancel this broadcast to cease Disneyâ*Ts plans to use it as a teaching tool in schools across America through Scholastic. Presenting such deeply flawed and factually inaccurate misinformation to the American public and to children would be a gross miscarriage of your corporate and civic responsibility to the law, to your shareholders, and to the nation.The Communications Act of 1934 provides your network with a free broadcast license predicated on the fundamental understanding of your principle obligation to act as a trustee of the public airwaves in serving the public interest. Nowhere is this public interest obligation more apparent than in the duty of broadcasters to serve the civic needs of a democracy by promoting an open and accurate discussion of political
Re: [Biofuel] Disney
Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gregg Davidson wrote: */Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote: Yeah! And I wish Clinton's legacy would stop forcing us to borrow all that money - what is it - 2 billion a week?You skipped one. And I'm really mad about Clinton's Legacy making up all those stories about WMD in Iraq! *"Der Schlickmeister" didn't make up any stories during his reign. Everything he said was honest to God fact.*I never made that claim. All presidents lie, unless maybe they're Jimmy Carter. He told us all this would happen with the energy crunch, and we voted him out and went to buy giant SUV's.Mike, I was being quite sarcastic in my above statement. Please don't mention Georgia's former Governor. What an embarrassment. And I really wish Clinton's Legacy would follow through on its promise to catch Osama bin Laden. *I do too. He was only interested in getting BJ's in the "Oral Orifice".*I wouldn't say Clinton handled OBL particularly well, but he didn't go on national television and swear to catch OBL, either. Bush did, and hasn't.President Bush also said that it would take time to win the war. Nobody seems to recall that. They also fail to recall that President Clinton himself admitted that he believed Saddam had WMD's so did every Democrat/Liberal in the Congress Senate, not to mention all those really useful folks at the "Useless Nations".The logic *is* a little off. Assuming all regarding 9/11 is reasonably true, we're attacked by OBL, so we topple what was a rotten government in Afganistan, lose interest, ignore our promises to help them rebuild, and go invade Iraq?Just because the Mainstream Media doesn't mention it, doesn't mean it isn't happening. You don't hear muchabout the rebuilding in Iraq either. Anything that's good is ignored or discredited.Now we've opened a huge geopolitical hole for the Iranians to exploit, and they'll wind up with all of Southern Iraq and its oil fields, unless we pretty much stay forever. Not too shrewd, IMHO. Stop it, Clinton's Legacy, Stop it now! You're all to blame.* I'm not at fault, I wasn't dumb enough to vote for him.* Gregg Davidson wrote: I hope Disney grows some major cojones, ones the size of 16lb bowling balls, calls the Democrat/Liberal bluff, runs the mini series anyway. Sounds to me like the Clinton Admistration's Legacy will stand up to what's in the mini series like a vampire does to sunlight. */Mike Weaver /* wrote: This letter was sent today by the entire Democratic leadership of the US Senate. This letter is such a major shot across the bow of Disney, it's not even funny. It is FILLED with veiled threats, both legal and legislative, against Disney. US Senators don't make threats like this, especially the entire Democratic leadership en masse, unless they mean it. Disney is in serious trouble.Read it, then read my analysis of it below: September 7, 2006Mr. Robert A. Iger President and CEO The Walt Disney Company 500 South Buena Vista Street Burbank CA 91521Dear Mr. Iger,We write with serious concerns about the planned upcoming broadcast of The Path to 9/11 mini-series on September 10 and 11. Countless reports from experts on 9/11 who have viewed the program indicate numerous and serious inaccuracies that will undoubtedly serve to misinform the American people about the tragic events surrounding the terrible attacks of that day. Furthermore, the manner in which this program has been developed, funded, and advertised suggests a partisan bent unbecoming of a major company like Disney and a major and well respected news organization like ABC. We therefore urge you to cancel this broadcast to cease Disneyâs plans to use it as a teaching tool in schools across America through Scholastic. Presenting such deeply flawed and factually inaccurate misinformation to the American public and to children would be a gross miscarriage of your corporate and civic responsibility to the law, to your shareholders, and to the nation.The Communications Act of 1934 provides your network with a free broadcast license predicated on the fundamental understanding of your principle obligation to act as a trustee of the public airwaves in serving the public interest. Nowhere is this public interest obligation more apparent than in the duty of broadcasters to serve the civic needs of a democracy by promoting an open and accurate discussion of political ideas and events.Disney and ABC claim this program to be based on the 9/11 Commission Report and are using that assertion as part of the promotional campaign for it. The 9/11 Commission is the most respected American authority on the 9/11 attacks, and association with it carries a special responsibility. Indeed, the very events themselves on 9/11, so tragic as they were, demand extreme care by any who attempt to use those events as part of an entertainment or
Re: [Biofuel] Disney
I hope Disney grows some major cojones,ones the size of 16lb bowling balls, calls the Democrat/Liberal bluff, runs the mini series anyway. Sounds to me like the Clinton Admistration's Legacy will stand up to what's inthe mini serieslike a vampire doesto sunlight. Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This letter was sent today by the entire Democratic leadership of the USSenate. This letter is such a major shot across the bow of Disney, it's not evenfunny. It is FILLED with veiled threats, both legal and legislative, againstDisney. US Senators don't make threats like this, especially the entireDemocratic leadership en masse, unless they mean it. Disney is in serious trouble.Read it, then read my analysis of it below:September 7, 2006Mr. Robert A. IgerPresident and CEOThe Walt Disney Company500 South Buena Vista StreetBurbank CA 91521Dear Mr. Iger,We write with serious concerns about the planned upcoming broadcast of ThePath to 9/11 mini-series on September 10 and 11. Countless reports fromexperts on 9/11 who have viewed the program indicate numerous and seriousinaccuracies that will undoubtedly serve to misinform the American people about thetragic events surrounding the terrible attacks of that day. Furthermore, themanner in which this program has been developed, funded, and advertisedsuggests a partisan bent unbecoming of a major company like Disney and a major andwell respected news organization like ABC. We therefore urge you to cancelthis broadcast to cease Disneyâs plans to use it as a teaching tool in schoolsacross America through Scholastic. Presenting such deeply flawed andfactually inaccurate misinformation to the American public and to children would be agross miscarriage of your corporate and civic responsibility to the law, toyour shareholders, and to the nation.The Communications Act of 1934 provides your network with a free broadcastlicense predicated on the fundamental understanding of your principleobligation to act as a trustee of the public airwaves in serving the public interest.Nowhere is this public interest obligation more apparent than in the duty ofbroadcasters to serve the civic needs of a democracy by promoting an openand accurate discussion of political ideas and events.Disney and ABC claim this program to be based on the 9/11 Commission Reportand are using that assertion as part of the promotional campaign for it. The9/11 Commission is the most respected American authority on the 9/11 attacks,and association with it carries a special responsibility. Indeed, the veryevents themselves on 9/11, so tragic as they were, demand extreme care by anywho attempt to use those events as part of an entertainment or educationalprogram. To quote Steve McPhereson, president of ABC Entertainment, âWhen youtake on the responsibility of telling the story behind such an importantevent, it is absolutely critical that you get it right.âUnfortunately, it appears Disney and ABC got it totally wrong.Despite claims by your networkâs representatives that The Path to 9/11 isbased on the report of the 9/11 Commission, 9/11 Commissioners themselves, aswell as other experts on the issues, disagree.Richard Ben-Veniste, speaking for himself and fellow 9/11 Commissioners whorecently viewed the program, said, âAs we were watching, we were trying tothink how they could have misinterpreted the 9/11 Commissionâs findings the waythat they had.â [â9/11 Miniseries Is Criticized as Inaccurate and Biased,âNew York Times, September 6, 2006]Richard Clarke, the former counter-terrorism czar, and a national securityadvisor to ABC has described the program as âdeeply flawedâ and said of theprogramâs depiction of a Clinton official hanging up on an intelligence agent,âItâs 180 degrees from what happened.â [â9/11 Miniseries Is Criticized asInaccurate and Biased,â New York Times, September 6, 2006]Reports suggest that an FBI agent who worked on 9/11 and served as aconsultant to ABC on this program quit halfway through because, âhe thought theywere making things up.â [MSNBC, September 7, 2006]Even Thomas Kean, who serves as a paid consultant to the miniseries, hasadmitted that scenes in the film are fictionalized. [â9/11 Miniseries IsCriticized as Inaccurate and Biased,â New York Times, September 6, 2006]That Disney would seek to broadcast an admittedly and proven falserecounting of the events of 9/11 raises serious questions about the motivations of itscreators and those who approved the deeply flawed program. Finally, thatDisney plans to air commercial-free a program that reportedly cost it $40million to produce serves to add fuel to these concerns.These concerns are made all the more pressing by the political leaning ofand the public statements made by the writer/producer of this miniseries, Mr.Cyrus Nowrasteh, in promoting this miniseries across conservative blogs andtalk shows.Frankly, that ABC and Disney would consider airing a program that could beconstrued as right-wing
Re: [Biofuel] Disney
Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah! And I wish Clinton's legacy would stop forcing us to borrow all that money - what is it - 2 billion a week?And I'm really mad about Clinton's Legacy making up all those stories about WMD in Iraq! "Der Schlickmeister" didn't make up any stories during his reign. Everything he said was honest to God fact.And I really wish Clinton's Legacy would follow through on its promise to catch Osama bin Laden. I do too. He was only interested in getting BJ's in the "Oral Orifice".Stop it, Clinton's Legacy, Stop it now! You're all to blame. I'm not at fault, I was dumb enough to vote for him.Gregg Davidson wrote: I hope Disney grows some major cojones, ones the size of 16lb bowling balls, calls the Democrat/Liberal bluff, runs the mini series anyway. Sounds to me like the Clinton Admistration's Legacy will stand up to what's in the mini series like a vampire does to sunlight. */Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote: This letter was sent today by the entire Democratic leadership of the US Senate. This letter is such a major shot across the bow of Disney, it's not even funny. It is FILLED with veiled threats, both legal and legislative, against Disney. US Senators don't make threats like this, especially the entire Democratic leadership en masse, unless they mean it. Disney is in serious trouble. Read it, then read my analysis of it below: September 7, 2006 Mr. Robert A. Iger President and CEO The Walt Disney Company 500 South Buena Vista Street Burbank CA 91521 Dear Mr. Iger, We write with serious concerns about the planned upcoming broadcast of The Path to 9/11 mini-series on September 10 and 11. Countless reports from experts on 9/11 who have viewed the program indicate numerous and serious inaccuracies that will undoubtedly serve to misinform the American people about the tragic events surrounding the terrible attacks of that day. Furthermore, the manner in which this program has been developed, funded, and advertised suggests a partisan bent unbecoming of a major company like Disney and a major and well respected news organization like ABC. We therefore urge you to cancel this broadcast to cease Disneyâs plans to use it as a teaching tool in schools across America through Scholastic. Presenting such deeply flawed and factually inaccurate misinformation to the American public and to children would be a gross miscarriage of your corporate and civic responsibility to the law, to your shareholders, and to the nation. The Communications Act of 1934 provides your network with a free broadcast license predicated on the fundamental understanding of your principle obligation to act as a trustee of the public airwaves in serving the public interest. Nowhere is this public interest obligation more apparent than in the duty of broadcasters to serve the civic needs of a democracy by promoting an open and accurate discussion of political ideas and events. Disney and ABC claim this program to be based on the 9/11 Commission Report and are using that assertion as part of the promotional campaign for it. The 9/11 Commission is the most respected American authority on the 9/11 attacks, and association with it carries a special responsibility. Indeed, the very events themselves on 9/11, so tragic as they were, demand extreme care by any who attempt to use those events as part of an entertainment or educational program. To quote Steve McPhereson, president of ABC Entertainment, âWhen you take on the responsibility of telling the story behind such an important event, it is absolutely critical that you get it right.â Unfortunately, it appears Disney and ABC got it totally wrong. Despite claims by your networkâs representatives that The Path to 9/11 is based on the report of the 9/11 Commission, 9/11 Commissioners themselves, as well as other experts on the issues, disagree. Richard Ben-Veniste, speaking for himself and fellow 9/11 Commissioners who recently viewed the program, said, âAs we were watching, we were trying to think how they could have misinterpreted the 9/11 Commissionâs findings the way that they had.â [â9/11 Miniseries Is Criticized as Inaccurate and Biased,â New York Times, September 6, 2006] Richard Clarke, the former counter-terrorism czar, and a national security advisor to ABC has described the program as âdeeply flawedâ and said of the programâs depiction of a Clinton official hanging up on an intelligence agent, âItâs 180 degrees from what happened.â [â9/11 Miniseries Is Criticized as Inaccurate and Biased,â New York Times, September 6, 2006] Reports suggest that an FBI agent who worked on 9/11 and served as a consultant to ABC on this program quit halfway through because, âhe thought they were making things up.â [MSNBC, September 7, 2006] Even Thomas Kean, who serves as a paid consultant to the miniseries, has admitted that scenes in the film are fictionalized. [â9/11 Miniseries Is Criticized as Inaccurate
Re: [Biofuel] Disney
DHAJOGLO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:On Sunday, September 10, 2006 7:31 AM, Gregg Davidson wrote:I hope Disney grows some major cojones, ones the size of 16lb bowling balls, calls the Democrat/Liberal bluff, runs the mini series anyway.Well, I would imagine Disney/ABC wouldn't need huevos that large to spin a few lies about 9/11... I mean, after all, BushCo has manged to lie up one side and down the other and I'm quite certian they all have tiny tiny testies. Bush Lied! Bush Lied!! Bush Lied!!! Can't you people come up with something better than that?Sounds to me like the Clinton Admistration's Legacy will stand up to what's in the mini series like a vampire does to sunlight.According to the abc website, this story goes back to 1993 to start the tale of Osama and 9/11.. Seems if they want to blame some people they may as well start back when Reagan was underwriting the conflict in Afganastan, or when Reagan traded arms with both Iran and Iraq, or when Bush Senior really pissed off Osama with Air Bases in Saudi Arabia during the first Gulf War. After all of that, it does seem Clinton is a bastard for boinking a secretary rather than toying with the middle east like the two presidents before him.I'm so sorry we pissed off "Uncle" Osama.We'd better not make him mad or he'll do some really mean like call the ACLU on us. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small Business. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Disney
No Keith, that's not what I'm saying. A lie is a lie, regardless of who tells it.If President Bushdid the things that made Clinton famous, or infamous, I'd be screaming for him to be impreached too.There are things that thePresident is doing, as well as not doing, that I take exception to. I don't see the present administration threateningto pull the license of abroadcast network, or tryingviolate ABC's First Amendment Right,but the Democrat/Liberals are. They're calling outthe figurativeStorm Troopers, which is the typicalscare tactic.Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hope Disney grows some major cojones, ones the size of 16lb bowling balls, calls the Democrat/Liberal bluff, runs the mini series anyway. Sounds to me like the Clinton Admistration's Legacy will stand up to what's in the mini series like a vampire does to sunlight.So Gregg, it doesn't matter if it's all lies and disinfo just as long as it supports the good guys (Republicans) and attacks the evil ones (Clinton), is that what you're saying?BestKeithMike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: This letter was sent today by the entire Democratic leadership of the US Senate. This letter is such a major shot across the bow of Disney, it's not even funny. It is FILLED with veiled threats, both legal and legislative, against Disney. US Senators don't make threats like this, especially the entire Democratic leadership en masse, unless they mean it. Disney is in serious trouble. Read it, then read my analysis of it below: September 7, 2006 Mr. Robert A. Iger President and CEO The Walt Disney Company 500 South Buena Vista Street Burbank CA 91521 Dear Mr. Iger, We write with serious concerns about the planned upcoming broadcast of The Path to 9/11 mini-series on September 10 and 11. Countless reports from experts on 9/11 who have viewed the program indicate numerous and serious inaccuracies that will undoubtedly serve to misinform the American people about the tragic events surrounding the terrible attacks of that day. Furthermore, the manner in which this program has been developed, funded, and advertised suggests a partisan bent unbecoming of a major company like Disney and a major and well respected news organization like ABC. We therefore urge you to cancel this broadcast to cease Disneyâ*s plans to use it as a teaching tool in schools across America through Scholastic. Presenting such deeply flawed and factually inaccurate misinformation to the American public and to children would be a gross miscarriage of your corporate and civic responsibility to the law, to your shareholders, and to the nation. The Communications Act of 1934 provides your network with a free broadcast license predicated on the fundamental understanding of your principle obligation to act as a trustee of the public airwaves in serving the public interest. Nowhere is this public interest obligation more apparent than in the duty of broadcasters to serve the civic needs of a democracy by promoting an open and accurate discussion of political ideas and events. Disney and ABC claim this program to be based on the 9/11 Commission Report and are using that assertion as part of the promotional campaign for it. The 9/11 Commission is the most respected American authority on the 9/11 attacks, and association with it carries a special responsibility. Indeed, the very events themselves on 9/11, so tragic as they were, demand extreme care by any who attempt to use those events as part of an entertainment or educational program. To quote Steve McPhereson, president of ABC Entertainment, â*When you take on the responsibility of telling the story behind such an important event, it is absolutely critical that you get it right.â* Unfortunately, it appears Disney and ABC got it totally wrong. Despite claims by your networkâ*s representatives that The Path to 9/11 is based on the report of the 9/11 Commission, 9/11 Commissioners themselves, as well as other experts on the issues, disagree. Richard Ben-Veniste, speaking for himself and fellow 9/11 Commissioners who recently viewed the program, said, â*As we were watching, we were trying to think how they could have misinterpreted the 9/11 Commissionâ*s findings the way that they had.â* [â*9/11 Miniseries Is Criticized as Inaccurate and Biased,â* New York Times, September 6, 2006] Richard Clarke, the former counter-terrorism czar, and a national security advisor to ABC has described the program as â*deeply flawedâ* and said of the programâ*s depiction of a Clinton official hanging up on an intelligence agent, â*Itâ*s 180 degrees from what happened.â* [â*9/11 Miniseries Is Criticized as Inaccurate and Biased,â* New York Times, September 6, 2006] Reports suggest that an FBI agent who worked on 9/11 and served as a consultant to ABC on this program quit halfway through because, â*he thought they were making things up.â* [MSNBC, September 7, 2006] Even Thomas Kean, who serves as a paid consultant to the
Re: [Biofuel] Disney
I'm not upset. I know that Clinton wouldn't take Osama on a silver platter 3 times. The atack may have come come on Bush's watch, but the inaction came on Clinton's, the first WTC bombing, Simalia, the USS Cole. I'm sure there is more than that.The Dems/Libs would try the same thing if God Himself told what happened.DHAJOGLO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gregg,I don't mean to get you too upset. But, hypocracy runs thick when it comes to this mini-series. I don't doubt that Clinton's administration could have done things differently but remember, the attack came on BushCo's watch and the seeds were planted over several years.On Sunday, September 10, 2006 6:28 PM, Gregg Davidson wrote: Bush Lied! Bush Lied!! Bush Lied!!! Can't you people come up with something better than that?Its interesting, they impeached Clinton for a lie. The country was outraged at such an atrocity as a lie to the nation. Would you suggest a lie about illicit sex is worse then a lie that has led to the deaths of the US's service men and women? Or a lie about why 3000 people lost their lives in 9/11? I'm so sorry we pissed off "Uncle" Osama. We'd better not make him mad or he'll do some really mean like call the ACLU on us.Hey, I would love to see Osama captured. But blaming his actions on one presidency only serves those who would hide from the truth. And my suggestion that Clinton was no more at fault then the two presidents previous to him (not even including Eisenhower's successful attempt at destabilizing Iran) still stands. Thus, to propagate a story that places blame for 9/11 at the feet of the Clinton administration is not only unfair but down right unpatriotic and un-American. Its deplorable to those who suffered loss to lie about why and how it happened.-dave___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] sticker on diesel pumps.
Except "Kalifornia". They've already beenusing the ULSD for a whileas mandated by their Air Resources Board.DHAJOGLO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think its safe to say that all states have or will have them... Colorado and Minnesota have them.-daveOn Saturday, August 19, 2006 7:59 PM, Gregg Davidson wrote:Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 17:59:31 -0700 (PDT)From: Gregg DavidsonTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] sticker on diesel pumps.Those stickers have been on GA diesel pumps since June.Debra <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Add CT to the list - Original Message - From: Thomas Kelly To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 6:47 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] sticker on diesel pumps. Kirk, Saw the same in NY, PA, NC, SC, FL on recent trip. Tom - Original Message - From: Kirk McLoren To: biofuel Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 4:53 PM Subject: [Biofuel] sticker on diesel pumps. A friend phoned from Montana and said all the diesel pumps there have a sticker that the fuel in that pump is not to be used in 2007 diesel trucks. Has anyone seen these stickers in their state? Kirk- Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.-___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/-___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/-Do you Yahoo!? Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] sticker on diesel pumps.
Those stickers have been on GA diesel pumps since June.Debra [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Add CT to the list- Original Message - From: Thomas Kelly To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 6:47 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] sticker on diesel pumps.Kirk, Saw the same in NY, PA, NC, SC, FL on recent trip. Tom- Original Message - From: Kirk McLoren To: biofuel Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 4:53 PM Subject: [Biofuel] sticker on diesel pumps.A friend phoned from Montana and said all the diesel pumps there have a sticker that the fuel in that pump is not to be used in 2007 diesel trucks. Has anyone seen these stickers in their state?KirkStay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Do you Yahoo!? Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] please confirm or debunk: dieselsecret.com
Thanks Kim. :) Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1/min.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] please confirm or debunk: dieselsecret.com
LOL! You may be right Paul! That type of alcohol may be more accessable. :)Paul S Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can hear Waylon now...Just two good old boys, never meanin' no harm...Beats all you never saw, been in trouble with the lawSince the day they was born.Straightenin' the curves, flattenin' the hills... Someday the mountain might get 'em but the law never will.Makin' their way, the only way they know how...That's just a little bit more than the law will allow.Just two good ol' boys, wouldn't change if they could, Fightin' the system like two modern-day Robin Hoods...Maybe ethanol is for you... Gregg Davidson wrote: Polk County, Georgia. It's in the NW part of the state. Definitely the home of Closed Minded thinking when it comes to Biodiesel. */Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Regular Unleaded Gas...Jeeez, where do you live? -- Thanks,Paul in South CarolinaHe's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switchYou can't have everything. Where would you put it? - Steven Wright ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] please confirm or debunk: dieselsecret.com
Hi Mike,Wrong answer Quiz Kid! LOL!!!I don't live in Atlanta. Rockmart is about an hour or so away, but I may have to agree with you about the Meth as that's what's caused all my woes. Unfortunately, I'm not able to join the local VFD because of some physical problems. GreggMike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ahh...yes, Georgia. Meth capital of the South.I bet you live on Peachtree Rd.Join the vol. fire dept. half of them will cops. Tell 'em you do BD because you don't want none o yer money going to them A-rabs. You'll be fine.Gregg Davidson wrote: Polk County, Georgia. It's in the NW part of the state. Definitely the home of Closed Minded thinking when it comes to Biodiesel. */Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote: Regular Unleaded Gas... Jeeez, where do you live? Gregg Davidson wrote: Hi Mike, This isn't one of those "too good to be true" things is it? I've had to forgo biodiesel production due to all the "meth heads" causing problems with getting some of the components. I have about 55 gallons of WVO I'd like to convert into fuel for my Liberty, but because of the local situation, I'm erring on the side of caution. The logical thing would be to talk to the local law enforcement just as a courtesey, but logic is thrown out the window in my neck of the woods. By the way, what is RUG? Sincerely, Gregg Davidson */Mike Weaver /* wrote: Yes, Andrew, it's true. I myself have made a pile of money off of it and am now running a huge fleet of trucks on DSE. Nah, it's the same as blending - 80% filtered veg oil, 6% RUG and 14% Iso (change formula depending on who you believe) There is a ton on stuff on the web on blending. You can google for more. -Mike Andrew Netherton wrote: Greetings,I recently clicked through an ad to http://www.dieselsecret.com/ that claims to enable you to make an alternative diesel fuel from vegetable oil - not biodiesel, and with no conversion. It sounds simple enough, take vegetable oil (virgin or used), add their "Alternative Diesel Fuel Additive" (supposedly a catalyst of some sort), filter, and use.Obviously, if they have something worthwhile I'd like to know about it. Just as obviously, if they're selling something that is less than ideal for diesel engines, I'd like to know that too. Has anyone on the list tried what they're selling, good or bad? Anyone with a chemistry background care to hazard a guess as to what their additive might be?Regards, Andrew Netherton___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC for low, low rates. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __
Re: [Biofuel] please confirm or debunk: dieselsecret.com
Hi Mike,This isn't one of those "too good to be true" things is it? I've had to forgo biodiesel production due to all the "meth heads" causing problems with gettingsome of the components. I have about 55 gallons of WVO I'd like to convert into fuel for my Liberty, but because of the local situation, I'm erring on the side of caution. The logical thing would be to talk to the local law enforcement just as a courtesey, but logic is thrown out the window in my neck of the woods.By the way, what is RUG?Sincerely, Gregg DavidsonMike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, Andrew, it's true.I myself have made a pile of money off of it and am now running a huge fleet of trucks on DSE.Nah, it's the same as blending - 80% filtered veg oil, 6% RUGand 14% Iso (change formula depending on who you believe)There is a ton on stuff on the web on blending. You can google for more.-MikeAndrew Netherton wrote:Greetings,I recently clicked through an ad to http://www.dieselsecret.com/ thatclaims to enable you to make an alternative diesel fuel from vegetableoil - not biodiesel, and with no conversion. It sounds simple enough,take vegetable oil (virgin or used), add their "Alternative DieselFuel Additive" (supposedly a catalyst of some sort), filter, and use.Obviously, if they have something worthwhile I'd like to know aboutit. Just as obviously, if they're selling something that is less thanideal for diesel engines, I'd like to know that too. Has anyone onthe list tried what they're selling, good or bad? Anyone with achemistry background care to hazard a guess as to what their additivemight be?Regards,Andrew Netherton___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC for low, low rates.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] please confirm or debunk: dieselsecret.com
If I had family or friends in local (Polk County, Georgia)law enforcement, I could do that without any fear of being raided. I think sometimes that "Davidson" is Scottish for "Murphy" as I seem to be subject to Murphy's Law - "Anything that can go wrong, will."Paul S Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: RUG = Regular Unleaded GasolineRegarding methanol etc...just tell them you have a hot rod honda that you race.On 3/27/06, Gregg Davidson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Hi Mike, This isn't one of those "too good to be true" things is it? I've had to forgo biodiesel production due to all the "meth heads" causing problems with getting some of the components. I have about 55 gallons of WVO I'd like to convert into fuel for my Liberty, but because of the local situation, I'm erring on the side of caution. The logical thing would be to talk to the local law enforcement just as a courtesey, but logic is thrown out the window in my neck of the woods. By the way, what is RUG? Sincerely, Gregg Davidson Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Yes, Andrew, it's true. I myself have made a pile of money off of it and am now running a huge fleet of trucks on DSE. Nah, it's the same as blending - 80% filtered veg oil, 6% RUG and 14% Iso (change formula depending on who you believe) There is a ton on stuff on the web on blending. You can google for more. -Mike Andrew Netherton wrote: Greetings, I recently clicked through an ad to http://www.dieselsecret.com/ that claims to enable you to make an alternative diesel fuel from vegetable oil - not biodiesel, and with no conversion. It sounds simple enough, take vegetable oil (virgin or used), add their "Alternative Diesel Fuel Additive" (supposedly a catalyst of some sort), filter, and use. Obviously, if they have something worthwhile I'd like to know about it. Just as obviously, if they're selling something that is less than ideal for diesel engines, I'd like to know that too. Has anyone on the list tried what they're selling, good or bad? Anyone with a chemistry background care to hazard a guess as to what their additive might be? Regards, Andrew Netherton ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC for low, low rates. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/--Thanks,PCHe's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switchYou can't have everything. Where would you put it? - Steven Wright___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC for low, low rates.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] please confirm or debunk: dieselsecret.com
Polk County, Georgia. It's in the NW part of the state. Definitely the home of Closed Minded thinking when it comes to Biodiesel.Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Regular Unleaded Gas...Jeeez, where do you live?Gregg Davidson wrote: Hi Mike, This isn't one of those "too good to be true" things is it? I've had to forgo biodiesel production due to all the "meth heads" causing problems with getting some of the components. I have about 55 gallons of WVO I'd like to convert into fuel for my Liberty, but because of the local situation, I'm erring on the side of caution. The logical thing would be to talk to the local law enforcement just as a courtesey, but logic is thrown out the window in my neck of the woods. By the way, what is RUG? Sincerely, Gregg Davidson */Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote: Yes, Andrew, it's true. I myself have made a pile of money off of it and am now running a huge fleet of trucks on DSE. Nah, it's the same as blending - 80% filtered veg oil, 6% RUG and 14% Iso (change formula depending on who you believe) There is a ton on stuff on the web on blending. You can google for more. -Mike Andrew Netherton wrote: Greetings, I recently clicked through an ad to http://www.dieselsecret.com/ that claims to enable you to make an alternative diesel fuel from vegetable oil - not biodiesel, and with no conversion. It sounds simple enough, take vegetable oil (virgin or used), add their "Alternative Diesel Fuel Additive" (supposedly a catalyst of some sort), filter, and use. Obviously, if they have something worthwhile I'd like to know about it. Just as obviously, if they're selling something that is less than ideal for diesel engines, I'd like to know that too. Has anyone on the list tried what they're selling, good or bad? Anyone with a chemistry background care to hazard a guess as to what their additive might be? Regards, Andrew Netherton ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC for low, low rates.___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Termites, global warming
Termites aiding global warming? They have a lot of help from the flatulant cows in California's Sam Joaquin Valley.Garth Kim Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings,Well the thought is close, but it is much easier to hook that pipe up to a methane digester, that the human toilets feed, then use the effluent to create compost. A man by the name of Arun on [EMAIL PROTECTED] has figured out that if we saved all the humanure in the world, we would not need the fertilizer companies.I have personally seen a system where the toilet feeds directly to a digester under the house, which provides the cooking gas, then the effluent goes into the compost pile. I am not too sure I want a methane digester under my house, but it would sure beat hauling buckets.We have the technology and all the information we need to fix the problem. What we don't have is the will to actually make real changes in how we live. Our sanitized world will kill us yet.Bright Blessings,KimAt 08:05 PM 2/8/2006, you wrote:Maybe someone should tell Gorge W this it seems simple if we could just hookup hoses to the rear ends of all the cattle we gas could power ourelectrical generators. This would be much better than going back to thefuture with nuc power.Just a sarcastic thought.-___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Brings words and photos together (easily) with PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Methanol in Engines was Materials, Venturis and Biodiesel
Hi Keith, I was just giving him info that I had run across in the owner's manual ofacar I'd just bought to whichI was thinking of adding a little BD with the gas. Once I saw that warning, I elected to err on the side of caution.I have seen that warning in at least4 owner's manuals from different auto makers. If the vehicle he was referring to is an older model, then he may not have any problems what so ever. As for use inhis lawn mower engine, "I love the smell of BD in the morning". Sincerely, Gregg Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Christopher and allHi:Don't professional race car drivers use methanol in their engines? Sowhy can't it be used in an ordinary car? I'm guessing race car enginesshould be more sensitive. Anyone care to comment?Best,ChristopherI went looking some time back and foun this at a race site. I've seen some other references to parts of it. Seems those racecars have special engines, thoroughly corrosion-proofed, no exposed aluminium, the entire fuel system is internally coated with Teflon and stainless steel, the fuel bladder is made of a special compound, the valve seats are brass, no fuel is left in the engine overnight, the cylinder walls have to be fogged with oil so they won't rust. "Turns aluminum to powder..."There's this too:http://www.bera1.org/LA-buses.htmlLos Angeles Evaluation of Methanol- and Ethanol-Fueled BusesGregg Davidson wrote: Hi Jim, The * VERY * first thing you need to make sure of when putting biodiesel in your gasoline engine is that the addition of methanol in * ANY * form will not damage your engine. *I strongly suggest* * you read your owners manual *.I'm not quite sure what you're saying Gregg, but I don't think methyl esters are a form of methanol any more than water is a form of oxygen.Free methanol in unwashed biodiesel is another matter though.Best wishesKeith *I recently bought a new vehicle out of couriousity looked at the fuel specs. Use of gasoline, and */* or gasoline-ethanol* *mixtures is allowed, but gasoline-methanol mixtures or the addition of methanol in any way, shape, form, or fashion can damage or destroy vital engine components.* ** Respectfully, Gregg Davidson ** Thanks Greg,I decided against using it as an additive right now except into an oldlawn mower that I have. ( no loss..probably should be in dump anyway)But I did use it in an old Kerosene lamp. I guess its just so cool tosee something you made do what its supposed to (quality tests) then tosee it burn so clean no smoke at all well thats just cool. I planon having the ASTM testing done for quality before I use it in myCumins.I have a long ways to go before I am at that level though.I am still looking for information about white PVC pipe and and how itstands the chemicals. I want to experiment with my venturis as a vacumesource and for introduction of Methoxil. Any guidance?? * * * * */Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote: Hello Jim I had some general question about Biodiesel:1. I have some PVC Venturis that I thought would work for mixingthe Methoxil and oil together. Would it tear up the PVC? How about Venturis and PVC in the washing process?2. How much if any Biodiesel can be added to gasoline engines asan upper lubricant and carb cleaner additive? See: Biodiesel in gasoline engines http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#gas Best wishes Keith3. Has any one gotten good results from this usage of biodiesel?4. Will this use work with 2 stroke engines? I need to winterize my boat and wonder how that would work as opposed to sea foam.5. I can get methanol for $2.24 US is this good bad or average?Thank you Jim___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Materials, Venturis and Biodiesel
Hi Jim, The VERY first thing you need to make sure of when putting biodiesel in your gasoline engine is that the addition of methanol inANY form will not damage your engine. I strongly suggest you read your owners manual. I recently bought a new vehicle out of couriousity looked at the fuel specs. Use of gasoline, and /or gasoline-ethanol mixtures is allowed, but gasoline-methanol mixtures or the addition of methanol in any way, shape, form, or fashion can damage or destroyvital engine components. Respectfully, Gregg Davidson Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello JimI had some general question about Biodiesel:1. I have some PVC Venturis that I thought would work for mixing theMethoxil and oil together. Would it tear up the PVC? How about Venturisand PVC in the washing process?2. How much if any Biodiesel can be added to gasoline engines as anupper lubricant and carb cleaner additive?See:Biodiesel in gasoline engineshttp://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#gasBest wishesKeith3. Has any one gotten good results from this usage of biodiesel?4. Will this use work with 2 stroke engines? I need to winterize my boatand wonder how that would work as opposed to sea foam.5. I can get methanol for $2.24 US is this good bad or average?Thank youJim___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Reactors - tall or short
Hi Keith, I will take all of this into consideration when I start putting things together. Thanks for the input. Sincerely, GreggKeith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi GreggHi everyone,I'm in the planning stage of trying to put together my biodiesel reactor. I've heard that the taller slimmer water heaters are usually best, however, I'm a bit cramped for space would probably need to go with a shorter one. If anyone has any thoughts, comments, advice, etc, I would really appreciate the input. I'm also toying with the idea of modifying a 55 gallon drum to use if possible.Generally I'm not a fan of water heater reactors, excepting Dale's one (the original). Otherwise, not very impressed. But to each his own, as long as it works well.Tall and thin (like me! LOL!) is generally better than short and fat. See what Michael Allen has to say about it:The Design of 'Deepthort'http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor8.html#design(The whole page is worth a read, lots of good info.)Have a read of this too:http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor10.htmlJourney to Forever 90-litre processorMore good reasons for tall and thin. On the other hand this reactor is about the same proportions as a 55-gallon drum. There is a more ectomorphic tank pictured there too, but the existing one's just fine.These tanks are 90-litre kerosene tanks commonly used for heating water here. Anything similar would do, and they're a lot smaller than a 55-gallon drum. How much fuel do you use? How often will you need to make it?Another consideration is whether you'll use a pump or a stirrer for mixing - either way you'll get better agitation in a tall thin vessel with less danger of unreacted stuff ending up in the final product. With stirrers you can use higher speeds, more efficient paddle design or baffle plates to improve agitation. With pumps the "rose" inlet we use probably solves the problem. (Don't use a 1" clear water pump for a 55 gallon drum, it needs something stronger - max. for the 1" pump is about half that size, 100 litres.)You'll also need a washing tank of the same capacity or more - batch-size plus one-third as much water or more plus headroom. Depending how you want to pre-heat the oil you might also need a pre-heating tank, though not if you'll be relying on electric heating elements in the reactor. We pre-heat the oil in a separate tank (NO methanol around at this stage!) over a biodiesel or by-product burner and transfer the heated oil to the reactor, then use the heating element to maintain the temperature, much cheaper. You could also put a burner under the reactor but not if you're going to put a cone bottom on it or if there are a bunch of outlets and valves there, unless you can avoid frying them somehow.We find a separate settling tank and an extra wash tank are very useful, but you can do without them. Still, this whole set-up fits in a corner, compact and effective, very flexible.HTH.Best wishesKeithRespectfully,Gregg Davidson___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] BioDiesel on Spike TeeVee Trucks show
Hi Kim, Sorry to be late getting back with you. I didn't find you message until yesterday when I was tidying up my e-mail. Somehow it got moved around. That seems to happen from time to time. You can contact me offlist about the conversion. Sincerely, Gregg Garth Kim Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings,I can convert VHS to DVD easily. That is as long as their is no copyright interference. The DVDs are actually clearer that the original VHS.Bright Blessings,KimAt 05:17 PM 6/16/2005, you wrote: Hi Mel,I was just talking to my lab partner about the Fuel Meister earlier today. I told her that you could probably get all the assorted parts put one together yourself for a lot less than the price they want. I'm trying to get things in order at my end to make a BD reactor from a water heater. While I've located a local sourse for methanol, my main constraint is space or the lack of it, but I've heard that it's better to use a tall water heater rather than the shorter ones. So many decisions!!!As to the mini-DV tape or DVD, I have some equipment to transfer VHS to DVD, but I have only tried it once, with not much luck. I'll see what I can come up with let you know. Respectfully,GreggMel Riser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am not sure if it was junk. It seemdd to work and the titration charts and examples they had seemd clear and easy. Even had a water wash option. Whether fule meister is worth the 3000 they are advertising it for or whether someone would be more interested in the old water heater batch processor, it DID present BioDiesel in a good light and will spur the imagination of millions of diesel truck owners and that can't be a bad thing. I agree with Gregg, the Show was an A for clarity and clear presentation. Wheter the fuel meister is worth or not depends on how mechanically inclined you are. Most viewers of trucks are wrenchers that make their own stuff and if they can go to Journey to forever and learn how to make the same thing for less than 1000 USD then maybe they will. I wish I had taped as well. Hey Gregg can you make a Mini-DV tape or DVD? I would pay you something for digital files of the show. mel -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wed 6/15/2005 9:28 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Cc: Subject: Re: [Biofuel] BioDiesel on Spike TeeVee Trucks show Hi Gregg, Mel Hi Mel, I saw too. I also taped it for future reference. I did notice one thing that Stacey failed to mention: Heating the oil. Funny how they fail to mention that. I know that it's possible to make biodiesel in a blender from virgin oil, but the stuff he was using looked as though it had "been around the block" at least once. I'll give the show an "A" for giving the basics. I've not had any experience with the Fuel Meister, but I have read some things online that aren't flattering. It's junk. The "instructions" (destructions?) that come with it are also junk - "back to the Dark Ages!", as some have said. See (please do!): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg35652.html Re: [biofuel] Best Processer "You could make an excellent processor plus more than 8,000 gallons of high-quality biodiesel for that price." If dear old Rudi would only put anything like the effort he puts into promotion into making a half-decent bit of gear to promote... Don't hold yer breath. Sincerely, Gregg Davidson Mel Riser wrote: Just saw the Fuel Meister on Trucks! And they didn't drive it into the sea? Pity. They made a batch of BioDiesel and then put it in the truck and ran it. Pretty good show Now every Truck freak in the US will know about this. Sounds like the notorious BBC Top Gear show of a few years back - just add a teaspoon of turpentine and you can run your car on veggie oil. Not! But a lot of people believed it, and probably still do. A lot of them wrote to us, very boring! Now we're getting truckies doing the same thing. "... if this fuel works as well as the "trucks" segment said..." :-( My dad called me last week and some of his buddies in Louisiana ( where I'm from) are talking BioDiesel and grease cars. Well set him right, eh, Mel? Build your own! http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor.html Biodiesel processors And then just do it right: "Where do I start?" http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Best wishes Keith mel ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainableli
[Biofuel] Reactors - tall or short
Hi everyone, I'm in the planning stageof trying to put together my biodiesel reactor. I've heard that the taller slimmer water heaters are usually best, however, I'm a bit cramped for space would probably need to go with a shorter one. If anyone has any thoughts, comments, advice, etc, I would really appreciate the input. I'm also toying with the idea of modifying a 55 gallon drum to use if possible. Respectfully, Gregg Davidson Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: Re[2]: [Biofuel] BioDiesel on Spike TeeVee Trucks show
Hi Gustl, You're quite right.The easiest way of making a DVD is to connect my VCR to a DVD recorder. Unfortunately, I don't have a DVD recorder. I do have an ADS Pyro Link that I can connect to the video output ofmyVCR, to my computer via a firewire port. I have Nero software that will allow me to make an .avi of what I'm inputting, then it converts the .avi toDVD format. Then Isimply use the computer's burner to make the DVD.As I mentioned, I've only had thechance to try it once, but I had trouble with dropped frames. My computer has been upgraded since then, butmaking the time to tinker has been almost impossible.I have "too many irons in the fire" as it were. Sincerely, Gregg Davidson Gustl Steiner-Zehender [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hallo Greg,Mel,Thursday, 16 June, 2005, 18:17:20, you wrote:...snip...GD As to the mini-DV tape or DVD, I have some equipment to transferGD VHS to DVD, but I have only tried it once, with not much luck.GD I'll see what I can come up with let you know.It is my understanding that transferring VHS to DVD can beaccomplished by buying a device with a VHS player and DVD burnerhardwired to operate together, and that they work well. They are,however, quite expensive (at least I consider them expensive) at over$200 per unit. Not worth it perhaps.With video capture cards and software there are problems with both thesound and video although perhaps not both every time. It seems ratherunpredictable. There are forums about such things online.Happy Happy,Gustl-- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns.We can't change the winds but we can adjust our sails.The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, "The Screwtape Letters"Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Strae liegen, da sie gerade deshalb von der gewhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden.Those who dance are considered insane by those who can'thear the music. George CarlinThe best portion of a good man's life -His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love.William Wordsworth___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] BioDiesel on Spike TeeVee Trucks show
oo. I also taped it for future reference. I did notice one thing that Stacey failed to mention: Heating the oil. Funny how they fail to mention that. I know that it's possible to make biodiesel in a blender from virgin oil, but the stuff he was using looked as though it had "been around the block" at least once. I'll give the show an "A" for giving the basics. I've not had any experience with the Fuel Meister, but I have read some things online that aren't flattering. It's junk. The "instructions" (destructions?) that come with it are also junk - "back to the Dark Ages!", as some have said. See (please do!): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg35652.html Re: [biofuel] Best Processer "You could make an excellent processor plus more than 8,000 gallons of high-quality biodiesel for that price." If dear old Rudi would only put anything like the effort he puts into promotion into making a half-decent bit of gear to promote... Don't hold yer breath. Sincerely, Gregg Davidson Mel Riser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Just saw the Fuel Meister on Trucks! And they didn't drive it into the sea? Pity. They made a batch of BioDiesel and then put it in the truck and ran it. Pretty good show Now every Truck freak in the US will know about this. Sounds like the notorious BBC Top Gear show of a few years back - just add a teaspoon of turpentine and you can run your car on veggie oil. Not! But a lot of people believed it, and probably still do. A lot of them wrote to us, very boring! Now we're getting truckies doing the same thing. "... if this fuel works as well as the "trucks" segment said..." :-( My dad called me last week and some of his buddies in Louisiana ( where I'm from) are talking BioDiesel and grease cars. Well set him right, eh, Mel? Build your own! http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor.html Biodiesel processors And then just do it right: "Where do I start?" http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Best wishes Keith mel___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] BioDiesel on Spike TeeVee Trucks show
Hi Mel, I was just talking to my lab partner about the Fuel Meister earlier today. I told her that you could probably get all the assorted parts put one together yourself for a lot less than the price they want. I'm trying to get things in order at my end to make a BD reactor from a water heater. While I've located a local sourse for methanol,my main constraint is space or the lack of it, but I've heard that it's better touse a tall water heater rather than the shorter ones. So many decisions!!! As to the mini-DV tape or DVD, I have some equipment to transferVHS to DVD, but I have only tried it once, with not much luck. I'll see what I can come up with let you know. Respectfully, Gregg Mel Riser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am not sure if it was junk. It seemdd to work and the titration charts and examples they had seemd clear and easy. Even had a water wash option.Whether fule meister is worth the 3000 they are advertising it for or whether someone would be more interested in the old water heater batch processor, it DID present BioDiesel in a good light and will spur the imagination of millions of diesel truck owners and that can't be a bad thing.I agree with Gregg, the Show was an A for clarity and clear presentation. Wheter the fuel meister is worth or not depends on how mechanically inclined you are.Most viewers of trucks are wrenchers that make their own stuff and if they can go to Journey to forever and learn how to make the same thing for less than 1000 USD then maybe they will.I wish I had taped as well.Hey Gregg can you make a Mini-DV tape or DVD? I would pay you something for digital files of the show.mel-Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wed 6/15/2005 9:28 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Cc: Subject: Re: [Biofuel] BioDiesel on Spike TeeVee Trucks showHi Gregg, MelHi Mel,I saw too. I also taped it for future reference. I did notice onething that Stacey failed to mention: Heating the oil.Funny how they fail to mention that.I know that it's possible to make biodiesel in a blender from virginoil, but the stuff he was using looked as though it had "been aroundthe block" at least once. I'll give the show an "A" for giving thebasics. I've not had any experience with the Fuel Meister, but Ihave read some things online that aren't flattering.It's junk. The "instructions" (destructions?) that come with it arealso junk - "back tothe Dark Ages!", as some have said.See (please do!):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg35652.htmlRe: [biofuel] Best Processer"You could make an excellent processor plus more than 8,000 gallonsof high-quality biodiesel for that price."If dear old Rudi would only put anything like the effort he puts intopromotion into making a half-decent bit of gear to promote... Don'thold yer breath.Sincerely,Gregg DavidsonMel Riser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:Just saw the Fuel Meister on Trucks!And they didn't drive it into the sea? Pity.They made a batch of BioDiesel and then put it in the truck and ran it.Pretty good showNow every Truck freak in the US will know about this.Sounds like the notorious BBC Top Gear show of a few years back -just add a teaspoon of turpentine and you can run your car on veggieoil. Not! But a lot of people believed it, and probably still do. Alot of them wrote to us, very boring! Now we're getting truckiesdoing the same thing. "... if this fuel works as well as the "trucks"segment said..." :-(My dad called me last week and some of his buddies in Louisiana (where I'm from) are talking BioDiesel and grease cars.Well set him right, eh, Mel? Build your own!http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor.htmlBiodiesel processorsAnd then just do it right:"Where do I start?"http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#startBest wishesKeithmel___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and
Re: [Biofuel] BioDiesel on Spike TeeVee Trucks show
Hi Mel, I saw too. I also taped it for future reference. I did notice one thing that Stacey failed to mention: Heating the oil. I know that it's possible to make biodiesel in a blender from virgin oil, but the stuff he was using looked as though it had "been around the block" at least once. I'll give the show an "A" for giving the basics. I've not had any experience with the Fuel Meister, but I have read some things online that aren't flattering. Sincerely, Gregg Davidson Mel Riser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just saw the Fuel Meister on Trucks! They made a batch of BioDiesel and then put it in the truck and ran it. Pretty good show Now every Truck freak in the US will know about this. My dad called me last week and some of his buddies in Louisiana ( where I'm from) are talking BioDiesel and grease cars. mel___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it out!___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
pore size of a paper coffee filter
I was wondering if any list memberhas an idea of the pore size of a paper coffee filter. I use these to filter out largerparticles in my BDbefore going to final filtration. As always any suggestions, guidence,advice, or critisisms all welcome. Respectfully, Gregg Davidson__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
[Biofuel] Fwd: Magnasol
__ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Received: from [68.186.220.47] by web61007.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 18:30:56 PDT Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 18:30:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Gregg Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Magnasol To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0-1524391823-1114306256=:21801 Content-Length: 653 Hello everyone, I'm trying to make a batch of biodiesel with some WVO that I learned has been treated will something called Magnasol. This substance seems to inhibits the WVO from transesterifing by causing the NaOH to produce a stringy polymer like substance in the oil. The more NaOH you put in, the more stringy polymer like substance you get. Catch 22. The last batch of WVO I had was heavily contaminated with water that it was unusable. If anyone has information about Magnasol how to deal with it, please pass it along. I currently have 20 gallons of WVO that I'd like to use for biodiesel. Any help, suggestions, or advice is welcome. Sincerely, Gregg Davidson __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Fwd: Magnasol
Received: from [68.186.220.47] by web61007.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 18:30:56 PDT Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 18:30:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Gregg Davidson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Magnasol To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1524391823-1114306256=:21801" Content-Length: 653 I'm trying to make a batch of biodiesel with some WVO that I learned has been treated will something called Magnasol. This substance seems to inhibits the WVO from transesterifing by causing the NaOH to produce a stringy polymer like substance in the oil. The more NaOH you put in, the more stringypolymer like substance you get. Catch 22. The last batch of WVO I had was heavilycontaminated with water that it was unusable. If anyone has information about Magnasol how to deal with it, please pass it along. I currently have 20 gallons of WVO that I'd like to use for biodiesel. Any help, suggestions, or advice is welcome. Sincerely, Gregg Davidson __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
[Biofuel] Aleks Kac's 2 Stage Method
Hello Everyone, I started on a new batch of biodiesel this past Friday. I'm using Aleks Kac's 2 Stage Method had a lot of success last year with it. Now it seems that I've hit the proverbial brick wall. I've cafefully calculated the volume, 25 litres of WVO, warmed the WVO to 35* C, added 2 litres (8%) of methanol, mixed for 15 minutes rather than 5, then added 25 mls of 98% sulfuric acid. Maintaining 35* C mixing for 1 hour, then shut off the heat mixed for another hour. Afterwards, the WVO sat overnight. Saturday morning I started Stage 2. I had mixed the methoxide Friday night let it settle. I used 3 litres of methanol 87.8 grams of NaOH. I used the full 3.5 grams of NaOH that Aleks mentioned due to oil purity questions. Prior to heating, I added 1.5 litres of the methoxide to the WVO started the stirrer. I allowed the mixture to stir for 15 minutes to ensure a complete mixing. Afterwards, I heated the WVO to 55* C. The burner I was using is a bit tricky to regulate the heat varied from 55* to 61* C. The process went on for 2.75 hours, all seemed well. I poured some of what I thought was biodiesel into a 2 litre beaker so I could monitor the settling. No noticable settling had occurred after 24 hours, generally you start to see settling within a few minutes. I backtracked thought that perhaps it just needed some extra methoxide, so I made up some more using the volumes Aleks says to use, 750 mls methanol (3%) 24 grams of NaOH (.75 grams + 25% as I thought my NaOH had carbonated), reheated the WVO to 55* C, added the new methoxide solution, maintaining heat stirring for 1hour. Afterwards, I found that I had the same problem, no separation of glycerine esters. I was not able to get a pH reading on the oil as I do not have a meter at my disposal. I may have just undershot everything. I'm not sure if there is a point that WVO can reach that this method would deal with to render a quality biodiesel. I know that the base reaction needs a pH of 8 to 9, but what pH does the acid reaction need to crack the FFA's. As always, any help, suggestions, or critisms are welcome. Sincerely, Gregg Davidson - Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Aleks Kac's 2 Stage Method
Hi Kenneth, Earlier today I wondered if the may have been water in the WO I used it turns out that there was. So DUH on me. Normally, I heat the oil up to remove any water, but I suppose I forgot. I'm not excusing myself, just owning up to my shortcomings. I collected a sample of the batch took it to the lab where I work. Using a hotplate, I got the temp up to about 250* F, maintained that for about 4 hours. I plan on trying the base stage again later in the week when I have time. If I am sucessful, then I know that I'll have to get the rest of the 25 litre batch the same treatment. Thanks for you advise guidence on this. Respectfully, Gregg Davidson Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, As near as I can tell the first stage is going to produce water. It is an acid esterifacation, right? You need to somehow get rid of that water let alone any that may have been in the starting reactants. So some people say, but in fact the acid-base process does take that into account and it's not necessary to get rid of any water after the first stage, nor at any other stage during the process. Dewatering the oil first is another matter. Best wishes Keith Tom Irwin -Original Message- From: Kenneth Kron (CEO) To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 4/10/05 5:51 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Aleks Kac's 2 Stage Method Gregg, Are you sure there was no water in the WO before beginning? Sounds like you have a ton of soap if you are not getting *any* separation. At a minimum the alcohol layer should separate back out. Remember when you mix the methanol with the oil you are basically creating an emulsion. When you stop mixing the only thing that's going to hold them together is soap. kk Gregg Davidson wrote: Hello Everyone, I started on a new batch of biodiesel this past Friday. I'm using Aleks Kac's 2 Stage Method had a lot of success last year with it. Now it seems that I've hit the proverbial brick wall. I've cafefully calculated the volume, 25 litres of WVO, warmed the WVO to 35* C, added 2 litres (8%) of methanol, mixed for 15 minutes rather than 5, then added 25 mls of 98% sulfuric acid. Maintaining 35* C mixing for 1 hour, then shut off the heat mixed for another hour. Afterward s, the WVO sat overnight. Saturday morning I started Stage 2. I had mixed the m ethoxide Friday night let it settle. I used 3 litres of methanol 87.8 grams of NaOH. I used the full 3.5 grams of NaOH that Aleks mentioned due to oil pur ity questions. Prior to heating, I added 1.5 litres of the methoxide to the WVO started the stirrer. I allowed the mixture to stir for 15 minutes to ensure a complete mixing. Afterwards, I heated the WVO to 55* C. The burner I was usin g is a bit tricky to r egulate the heat varied from 55* to 61* C. The process went on for 2.75 hours, all seemed well. I po ured some of what I thought was biodiesel into a 2 litre beaker so I could moni tor the settling. No noticable settling had occurred after 24 hours, generall y you start to see settling within a few minutes. I backtracked thought that perhaps it just needed some extra methoxide, so I made up some more using the v olumes Aleks says to use, 750 mls methanol (3%) 24 grams of NaOH (.75 grams + 25% as I thought my NaOH had carbonated), reheated the WVO to 55* C, added th e new methoxide solution, maintaining heat stirring for 1hour. Afterwards, I found that I had the same problem, no separation of glycerine esters. I was not able to get a pH reading on the oil as I do not have a meter at my di sposal. I may have just undershot everything. I'm not sure if there is a point that WVO can reach that this method would deal with to render a quality biodies el. I know that the base reaction needs a pH of 8 to 9, but what pH does the ac id reaction need to crack the FFA's. As always, any help, suggestions, or critisms are welcome. Sincerely, Gregg Davidson ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Reducing Iodine Value
Thanks Ernie, I just didn't want to create a bigger problem for myself by wrecking a diesel engine if when I can get things sorted at my end. Gregg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Gregg, I am coming in late on this topic, and my memory is lapsing with age, so please forgive a little dawdling. My recollection is that the iodine number is a measure of the quantity of double bonds in an oil, of any kind. The reason you might worry about double bonds is that they represent chemical activity, or instability, of the oil. For example, flax oil requires refrigeration to preserve its food value because of its high double bond content (i.e., omega-3 content). Northern-climate organisms avoid low-temperature problems (freezing) of their oils by keeping chains short (like canola oil) or by increasing the content of double bonds, which also lowers the oil's melting point (as in cold-water fish oils). So, what I am saying is-- biodiesel with double bonds will have less low-temperature problems, but increasing storage problems. The standard chemical treatment to remove double bonds is to hydrogenate, which a backyard biodiesel maker isn't going to get into. The product in this case is Crisco. What you really want to do is shorten the chains, but that's not easy either since it also requires hydrogen. (Experts out there check me on this.) As for the questionable oil from fast-food places, the unstable oils are already along the path of change, having absorbed oxygen, forming more acid groups and other nasty stuff. (Good reason to eat at home, but still get your fuel from McDonald's.) These contaminants are naturally removed in making your biodiesel, I believe. (Not completely sure.) So, I don't think you have a serious problem here. Ernie Rogers Gregg said, Hi Everyone, I recently posted a question regarding the Iodine Value of corn oil. With help, I was able to find the answer I was looking for. Since the I.V. is important, I was wondering if there was a simple way to reduce the I.V. on questionable WVO. I have sources, but I have no idea what it is that I'm getting, soybean, peanut, canola, etc. As always, any help suggestions are greatly appreciated. Sincerely, Gregg Davidson ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! Get yours free! ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Reducing Iodine Value
Hi Everyone, I recently posted a question regarding the Iodine Value of corn oil. With help, I was able to find the answer I was looking for. Since the I.V. is important, I was wondering if there was a simple way to reduce the I.V. on questionable WVO. I have sources, but I have no idea what it is that I'm getting, soybean, peanut, canola, etc. As always, any help suggestions are greatly appreciated. Sincerely, Gregg Davidson - Do you Yahoo!? Discover all thats new in My Yahoo! ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Fly the fatty skies ( obesity increases pollution )
Thanks Nick, I failed to take the low temperature into consideration. DUH on me, but it was just a well-meaning rambling thought. Gregg Nick Jenny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Gregg, The engines can run biodiesel just fine at sealevel temperatures, the problem would be at cruising altitude and the sub zero temperatures encountered there causing the fuel to gel . Jet fuel is esentialy diesel but with a much lower cloud point. Regards Nick. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Gregg Davidson Sent: Sunday, 7 November 2004 9:36 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Fly the fatty skies ( obesity increases pollution ) I was pondering an idea a couple of days ago when I heard how much more the airlines must pay for jet fuel: Is it possible to convert the engines to use Biodiesel? Just a rambling thought on my part. Gregg Davidson http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ over weight people and higher fuel consumtion ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Fly the fatty skies ( obesity increases pollution )
I was pondering an idea a couple of days ago when I heard how much more the airlines must pay for jet fuel: Is it possible to convert the engines to use Biodiesel? Just a rambling thought on my part. Gregg Davidson Ken Riznyk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A second comment. Yes the extra weight takes more jet fuel, but what about all the extra petroleum products used to grow and transport the extra food that is eaten. I don't know how to calculate it but I am sure that if everyone ate a sensible diet much more fuel would be saved. Ken --- Peggy wrote:. Another comment about the larger people: The amazing weight gains make flying the inexpensive flights interesting in another way. You can really rub shin again and again when seated next to an obese person. Rubbing skin with a stranger is really strange. It bugs me to tuck in my arms and still be skin to skin with the next person when I don't even know the name. Peggy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg Harbican Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 8:30 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] Fly the fatty skies ( obesity increases pollution ) Obesity hurts more than the people with the extra weight. Greg H. -- Feds: Obesity Raising Airline Fuel Costs November 4, 2004 08:57 PM EST ATLANTA - Heavy suitcases aren't the only things weighing down airplanes and requiring them to burn more fuel, pushing up the cost of flights. A new government study reveals that airlines increasingly have to worry more about the weight of their passengers. America's growing waistlines are hurting the bottom lines of airline companies as the extra pounds on passengers are causing a drag on planes. Heavier fliers have created heftier fuel costs, according to the government study. Through the 1990s, the average weight of Americans increased by 10 pounds, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The extra weight caused airlines to spend $275 million to burn 350 million more gallons of fuel in 2000 just to carry the additional weight of Americans, the federal agency estimated in a recent issue of the American Journal of Preventive Medicine. The obesity epidemic has unexpected consequences beyond direct health effects, said Dr. Deron Burton of the CDC. Our goal was to highlight one area that had not been looked at before. The extra fuel burned also had an environmental impact, as an estimated 3.8 million extra tons of carbon dioxide were released into the air, according to the study. The agency said its calculations are rough estimates, issued to highlight previously undocumented consequences of the ongoing obesity epidemic. The estimates were calculated by determining how much fuel the 10 extra pounds of weight per passenger represented in Department of Transportation airline statistics, Burton said. Obesity is a life-or-death struggle in the United States, the underlying cause of 400,000 deaths in 2000, a 33 percent jump from 1990. If current trends persist, it will become the nation's No. 1 cause of preventable death, the CDC said earlier this year. More than half - 56 percent - of U.S. adults were overweight or obese in the early 1990s, according to a CDC survey. That rose to 65 percent in a similar survey done from 1999 to 2002. Although the Air Transport Association of America has not yet validated the CDC data, spokesman Jack Evans said the health agency's appraisal does not sound out of the realm of reality. With most airlines reporting losses blamed partly on record-high fuel costs, everything on an airplane is now a weighty issue. Airlines are doing everything they can to lighten the load on all aircraft, from wide-body jets to turboprops. Bulky magazines have gone out the door. Metal forks and spoons have been replaced with plastic. Large carry-ons are being scrutinized and even heavy materials that used to make up airplane seats are being replaced with plastic and other lightweight materials. We're dealing in a world of small numbers - even though it has a very incremental impact to reduce a 60- to 120-ton aircraft's weight by bumping off a few magazines, Evans said. When you consider airlines are flying millions of miles, it adds up over time. Although passenger bulk has been an issue in the past - Dallas-based Southwest Airlines requires large people to buy a second seat for passenger safety and comfort - Evans says it's not likely airlines will scrutinize how much passengers weigh in the future. Instead, they are trying to do a better job of estimating passenger weight in figuring out how much fuel they need for a flight. Seattle-based Alaska Airlines now calculates the weight of children
RE: [Biofuel] Iodine Value
Thanks Christopher. Sincerely, Gregg Christopher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 109-133 according to the Merck Index. Hope that helps, Christopher -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Gregg Davidson Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 1:40 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] Iodine Value Hello Everyone, Is there any information on the Iodine Value of Corn oil anywhere in the archives? I've found the I.V. for other oils, but corn (miaze) wasn't among them. Help! Sincerely, Gregg Davidson __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Iodine Value
Hello Everyone, Is there any information on the Iodine Value of Corn oil anywhere in the archives? I've found the I.V. for other oils, but corn (miaze) wasn't among them. Help! Sincerely, Gregg Davidson __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Iodine Value
Thanks for the assist Greg. I just didn't look far enough. Yesterday was one of THOSE days. Gregg Greg Harbican [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Try: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html Under: Oils and esters characteristics Greg H. - Original Message - From: Gregg Davidson To: Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 03:40 Subject: [Biofuel] Iodine Value Hello Everyone, Is there any information on the Iodine Value of Corn oil anywhere in the archives? I've found the I.V. for other oils, but corn (miaze) wasn't among them. Help! Sincerely, Gregg Davidson ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] RE: Message for Doug Woodward
Hi Doug, You're probably right about the lawn mower / lawn tractor engines may not be fussy about Biodiesel mixed in the gas. Now as to a car engine, that's a different story. In June of this year, I posed a question about Biodiesel in gasoline engines. I received a reply from list member JC in Taipei. He advised me that he had mixed BD with gasoline for his car, using no more than a 15% mix. I have had sucess following his example had no engine problems. One of the three vehicles I tested this in is a Chrysler Town Country mini van with a 3.3 L V-6 Flex Fuel Engine, the other two are Jeep Grand Cherokees with 4.0 L I-6 engines. Even though the van can run on E-85, I do not use ethanol blends because of the following: 1.) When E-85 fuel is used, DaimlerChrysler states that a special type of motor oil MUST used or else excessive engine wear will occur. 2.) ( The most important one ) At present, E-85 is not available in my home state of Georgia, that I am aware of. Perhaps this may change soon. Respectfully, Gregg Davidson John Mullan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Doug. Just a quick note to say Hi from Niagara Falls. You are the closest Canadian I've met on the lists. Cheers. John Mullan Niagara Falls, Ontario, Canada -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: October 8, 2004 10:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Biofuel] HELP My guess is that lawn mower and lawn tractor engines are fairly low compression and not fussy about fuel. I would not try any amount of biodiesel in a high performance gasoline engine like a car engine, For gasoline engines I would think that ethanol blends with gasoline are much to be preferred. The fuel requirements of spark-ignition gasoline, and diesel engines, are entirely different. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Fri, 8 Oct 2004, Gregg Davidson wrote: Hi Steve, While you can't use 100% Biodiesel in a gasoline engine, you can mix it up to a maximum of 15% with the gas. It works great in lawn mower / lawn tractor engines as well. Same maximum percentage. Sincerely Gregg Davidson ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] HELP
Hi Steve, While you can't use 100% Biodiesel in a gasoline engine, you can mix it up to a maximum of 15% with the gas. It works great in lawn mower / lawn tractor engines as well. Same maximum percentage. Sincerely Gregg Davidson Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The KB (solvent strength) of biodiesel is similar to #2 diesel. Biodiesel smells like French fries, sorta. No, you can't use Biodiesel in a petrol car (stock answer, exceptions rule). Steve Spence www.green-trust.org -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of chih chou Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 11:58 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] HELP DEAR SIR HERE I AM ASKING FOR HELP. 1, WHAT IS THE KB VALUE OF BIO-DIESEL? 2, WHAT IS BIO-DIESEL SMELL LIKE? 3,IF WE MIXED THE BIO-DIESEL WITH UNLEAD PETRO CAN THIS MIXTURE BE USING IN ORDINARY PERTOL ENGINE CAR? THANKS FOR ANYONE CAN ANSWER MY QUESTION BEST REGARDS GORVANS -- ___ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default .asp?SRC=lycos10 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Chrysler launches diesel Jeep, allows B5 biodiesel blends
Hey Keith, This is an interesting article. I've heard that DaimlerChrysler was going to introduce diesel engines in the Jeep Liberty, Grand Cherokee, the Dodge Durango (or as I call it, the 'Derange-o) either in 2005 or 2006 model year. I'm glad to know that my source was right on target. I probably have already seen the explaination somewhere, but why do the F.I.E. folks recommend only 5% BD. I haven't tried to make BD with soybean oil, just canola/corn/veggie the orange stuff I got from the fish chips shop. Oh well, maybe it will be where I can trade in the next year or so for a newer Jeep Grand Cherokee with a diesel engine. Pardon my ramblings, but I'm having dilusions of biodiesel at present. Respectfully yours, Gregg Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DieselNet UPDATE September 2004 http://www.dieselnet.com/ Chrysler launches diesel Jeep, allows B5 biodiesel blends DaimlerChrysler announced that each new 2005 Jeep Liberty sport- utility vehicle rolling off the assembly line will be fueled with 5% biodiesel blend (B5). The first Liberty diesel will be produced in November in the Jeep Liberty plant in Toledo, OH. The Jeep Liberty diesel, the first diesel-powered mid-size SUV to be offered in the USA, will be powered with a 2.8-liter 4-cylinder Common Rail Diesel (CRD) engine. The acceleration of the 4-cylinder CRD diesel vehicle is comparable to that of a V6 gasoline engine, and the torque output to that of a gasoline V8. The Liberty CRD diesel will achieve 22 mpg (10.7 l/100 km) city and 27 mpg (8.7 l/100 km) highway, overall approximately 30% better than Liberty's comparable 3.7-liter V-6 gasoline engine. In addition to the reduction in fuel consumption, the diesel engine also brings a 20% reduction in greenhouse gas emissions compared with gasoline engines, said DaimlerChrysler. Biodiesel fuel, manufactured in the USA mostly from soy beans, is a renewable fuel which brings substantial reductions in the life cycle greenhouse gas emissions (most of carbon dioxide released when the fuel is burned is matched by the amount of carbon dioxide absorbed by soy plants during growth). In addition, biodiesel produces certain emission reductions of PM, HC and CO. DaimlerChrysler said its Dodge Ram diesel pickup trucks have run successfully on B20 (20% biodiesel) blends in fleets required to use alternative fuels by the Energy Policy Act of 1992 (EPACT). However, due to lack of biodiesel fuel standards to guarantee consistent quality of B20 fuels, DaimlerChrysler recommends its diesel vehicles be run on a biodiesel blend of maximum 5% (B5). This recommendation is also consistent with the common position by fuel injection equipment manufacturers on the use of biodiesel in diesel engines. The CRD engine does not meet the LEV II emission standards that became effective this year in California. As a result, the Liberty diesel will not be available in California or in other states that adopted California emission standards (Massachusetts, Maine, New York, Vermont). http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104STORY=/www/story /09-09-2004/0002247062 FIE manufacturers position on biodiesel: http://www.dieselnet.com/tech/fuels/fie_fame_position_2000_06.pdf See: Fuel Injection Equipment (FIE) Manufacturers (Delphi, Stanadyne, Denso, Bosch) statement on biodiesel: Summary -- html http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_FIEM.html Full document -- Acrobat file, 104kb http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/FIEM.pdf ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Chrysler launches diesel Jeep, allows B5 biodiesel blends
Hi Ron, Thanks for the reply. I can't, will not speak for others, but I am doing my part to help out. Gregg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Keith, This is an interesting article. I've heard that DaimlerChrysler was going to introduce diesel engines in the Jeep Liberty, Grand Cherokee, the Dodge Durango (or as I call it, the 'Derange-o) either in 2005 or 2006 model year. I'm glad to know that my source was right on target. I probably have already seen the explaination somewhere, but why do the F.I.E. folks recommend only 5% BD. I haven't tried to make BD with soybean oil, just canola/corn/veggie the orange stuff I got from the fish chips shop. Oh well, maybe it will be where I can trade in the next year or so for a newer Jeep Grand Cherokee with a diesel engine. Pardon my ramblings, but I'm having dilusions of biodiesel at present. === Gregg, It mentioned in the original post that Chrysler did not want to certify the engines using B20 or higher, because of the often mentioned (on this list too) fact that quality standards are lacking for the higher concentration of biodiesel in the USA markets. Let's face it, the USA is in its infancy for biodoesel use in mass quanities. But it will change. Ron B. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] running biodiesel in gas engines
Hi Jonathan, A straightforward question deserves, will get, a straightforward answer: Personal preference due to E-85 fuel is not available (that I know of) in Georgia. I've also read in my Chrysler Owner's manual that you have to use a special type of motor oil if you use E-85 fuel. If you don't, there will be excessive engine wear. Hope that helps. Regards, Gregg Jonathan Schearer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gregg, I have a question to ask you about your FFV TC minivan. I have read that these are designed to run any blend of gasoline and ethanol, up to 85% ethanol. Why are you running biodiesel and not ethanol? Personal preference? Ethanol not available in your area? Just curious, that's all. Thanks. Jonathan. Gregg Davidson wrote:Hi Keith, Glad I could be of help to folks that have questions. I haven't had much time to make any more BD than the 5 or 6 gallons I made recently. I added about 2.2 gallons (a bit over 10%) to the fuel in my Chrysler TC mini van earlier this month. The 3.3 L V-6 Flex Fuel engine seemed to like the that. Since the Jeeps are fairly new, I only add about .5 gallons to their fuel, while adding 10% to the fuel of my lawn tractors. As soon as I have the chance to make more BD, I'll use it more frequently in the vehicles. Respectfully, Gregg Keith Addison wrote: Hi Gregg Thanks for this, that takes it all forward a whole lot. Unfortunately, Franklin's email account has been non-functional for a while. I hope he'll rejoin us and give us further news of his work with biodiesel, in both 2-strokes and gasoline engines. Hello Al, I'm the one that posted a while back about mixing a percentage of BD, about 10 - 15%, with my gas using it in my lawnmower, as well as my mini van Jeeps. It was sucessful. So far, I add BD to my gas frequently. This cleans the build-up out. I noticed my mileage drops a bit, but when I fill up with 100% gasoline, I get better mileage power. To this day, I have not had any sort of engine problems. Do you have more detail on the frequency you've used BD? I recall seeing something in the archives at Journey To Forever, Not at Journey to Forever. but since things have been moved to a new server, they might be here. The list has been using the excellent Infoarchive provided by list member Martin Klingensmith for the last two years, as Yahoo's archive became ever more useless. That hasn't changed - all list messages from the start of the list are filed at the Infoarchive, and constantly updated. It has powerful and fast search functions. The link is at the end of every message you receive: Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Now that we've dumped Yahoo we also have a new archive, where messages are stored by the week, also constantly updated, and viewable by Thread, Subject, Author or Date, but it's not searchable, and it starts from when the list moved on 9 September. This achives is linked at the top of every message you receive: List-Archive: I'm sure Keith can tell you if you contact him. I did, onlist, but I shouldn't have to. It's even in the List rules - more guidance than rules, though there are rules too: The archives contains more than 38,000 messages over nearly five years. The question you want to ask or the topic you're interested in has probably already been covered. That's no reason not to ask it again, but if you know what's gone before you'll ask a better question and get better answers. Everyone's been referred to that at least once. List members should know how to use the archives and do it as a matter of course. The Rules are here: http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20040906/05.html For instance, so far, apart from news items, very little that's been said in the current discussion on Bush, Kerry, Iraq, Afghanistan, Israel etc, hasn't already been discussed, affirmed, confirmed, substantiated, debunked, discredited, blown right out of the water, probably several times. A look at the archives first would yield a better, more constructive discussion, from which everybody benefits. Otherwise it just goes round and round, to little avail, and with much more risk of it degenerating into a flame war. PLEASE, everybody, use the archives! Best wishes Keith Respectfully, Gregg Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Sometime ago someone was talking about doing there own testing of mixing 10% biodeisel in gas, and running there lawnmower on it. I think that in that same email, there was talk about trying the same test on a minivan. As fas as I know there was never an email about the result of running biodiesel as a top cyclinger lubricant in a minivan. If anyone has some data one this I would really like to read it. Thanks, Al ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http
Re: [Biofuel] running biodiesel in gas engines
Hello Al, I'm the one that posted a while back about mixing a percentage of BD, about 10 - 15%, with my gas using it in my lawnmower, as well as my mini van Jeeps. It was sucessful. So far, I add BD to my gas frequently. This cleans the build-up out. I noticed my mileage drops a bit, but when I fill up with 100% gasoline, I get better mileage power. To this day, I have not had any sort of engine problems. I recall seeing something in the archives at Journey To Forever, but since things have been moved to a new server, they might be here. I'm sure Keith can tell you if you contact him. Respectfully, Gregg Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Sometime ago someone was talking about doing there own testing of mixing 10% biodeisel in gas, and running there lawnmower on it. I think that in that same email, there was talk about trying the same test on a minivan. As fas as I know there was never an email about the result of running biodiesel as a top cyclinger lubricant in a minivan. If anyone has some data one this I would really like to read it. Thanks, Al ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] running biodiesel in gas engines
Hi Keith, Glad I could be of help to folks that have questions. I haven't had much time to make any more BD than the 5 or 6 gallons I made recently. I added about 2.2 gallons (a bit over 10%) to the fuel in my Chrysler TC mini van earlier this month. The 3.3 L V-6 Flex Fuel engine seemed to like the that. Since the Jeeps are fairly new, I only add about .5 gallons to their fuel, while adding 10% to the fuel of my lawn tractors. As soon as I have the chance to make more BD, I'll use it more frequently in the vehicles. Respectfully, Gregg Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Gregg Thanks for this, that takes it all forward a whole lot. Unfortunately, Franklin's email account has been non-functional for a while. I hope he'll rejoin us and give us further news of his work with biodiesel, in both 2-strokes and gasoline engines. Hello Al, I'm the one that posted a while back about mixing a percentage of BD, about 10 - 15%, with my gas using it in my lawnmower, as well as my mini van Jeeps. It was sucessful. So far, I add BD to my gas frequently. This cleans the build-up out. I noticed my mileage drops a bit, but when I fill up with 100% gasoline, I get better mileage power. To this day, I have not had any sort of engine problems. Do you have more detail on the frequency you've used BD? I recall seeing something in the archives at Journey To Forever, Not at Journey to Forever. but since things have been moved to a new server, they might be here. The list has been using the excellent Infoarchive provided by list member Martin Klingensmith for the last two years, as Yahoo's archive became ever more useless. That hasn't changed - all list messages from the start of the list are filed at the Infoarchive, and constantly updated. It has powerful and fast search functions. The link is at the end of every message you receive: Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Now that we've dumped Yahoo we also have a new archive, where messages are stored by the week, also constantly updated, and viewable by Thread, Subject, Author or Date, but it's not searchable, and it starts from when the list moved on 9 September. This achives is linked at the top of every message you receive: List-Archive: I'm sure Keith can tell you if you contact him. I did, onlist, but I shouldn't have to. It's even in the List rules - more guidance than rules, though there are rules too: The archives contains more than 38,000 messages over nearly five years. The question you want to ask or the topic you're interested in has probably already been covered. That's no reason not to ask it again, but if you know what's gone before you'll ask a better question and get better answers. Everyone's been referred to that at least once. List members should know how to use the archives and do it as a matter of course. The Rules are here: http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20040906/05.html For instance, so far, apart from news items, very little that's been said in the current discussion on Bush, Kerry, Iraq, Afghanistan, Israel etc, hasn't already been discussed, affirmed, confirmed, substantiated, debunked, discredited, blown right out of the water, probably several times. A look at the archives first would yield a better, more constructive discussion, from which everybody benefits. Otherwise it just goes round and round, to little avail, and with much more risk of it degenerating into a flame war. PLEASE, everybody, use the archives! Best wishes Keith Respectfully, Gregg Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Sometime ago someone was talking about doing there own testing of mixing 10% biodeisel in gas, and running there lawnmower on it. I think that in that same email, there was talk about trying the same test on a minivan. As fas as I know there was never an email about the result of running biodiesel as a top cyclinger lubricant in a minivan. If anyone has some data one this I would really like to read it. Thanks, Al ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Final Filtering BD
Hi Luc, I posted the same query recently after checking the archives at the old site. The only thing I found was something in Mike Pelly's BD Receipe that he used a 10 micron filter, if my memory serves me correctly. I'm going the route of the water filtration units using 30 5 micron filters. Make sure that the canisters are polypropylene lest disaster may befall you. Good luck, Gregg Guardian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is in querry as to what others are using for final filtering of the BD as it leaves the wash tank as is being prepared for use. I have read about 1 icron nad 5 micron filters but not one post that I have been able to find gets specific as to what TYPE of filter is used. Is the best avenue to take a water filtration unit with 1-5 micron filtration capabilities ? Any input is appreciated. Luc ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [biofuel] Colour of latest batch
Hi Todd, Thanks for the advice. I actually was in error regarding the separation time, it's more like 10 to 15 minutes. Sorry about that, I did not have enough coffee in my system I made that error. As to the washings, the ones in question were only a couple of hours in duration. The most recent batch only took 4. The first wash was with a little vinegar in the water which I let go for about 6 hours. The last 3 washings last no less than 24 hours each. I got clear water on the 3rd ran a 4th wash just to be certain. No harm in erring on the side of caution. The current 7 litre batch is questionable, so I would feel better about reprocessing it, but I'm unsure if it needs a full reprocessing or just the 2nd Stage. The Brunette stock comes from a Long John Silver's near where I work. The oil / shortening mix is dark amber with a slight tinge of orange I'm sure it's heavily used. Thanks again. Sincerely, Gregg Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gregg, Fuel from shortening makes perfectly fine biodiesel. Actually it makes fuel of higher energy content than other less saturated feedstocks. If the water wash test is taking half of one hour to split, you've got an incomplete reaction. Draw off 200 ml of what you believe to be biodiesel and reprocess it to see if more glyc drops.. Also, if it's taking four or five washes before you get a clean rinse, something is amiss. As for the colour of the fuel, that is largely determined by the degree that the parent stock was abused. While the fuel colour will be considerably lighter than the parent stock when finished, you'll never get blonde fuel out of brunette oil. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: gregg2560 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 8:16 AM Subject: [biofuel] Colour of latest batch Hi All, I'm at a bit of a loss regarding the colour of my latest batch of biodiesel. It is a medium amber rather than pale straw yellow. This particular batch went through about 8 washes. The water in the first one or two was quite milky as expected, washes 3 - 6 got increasingly clear, the last 2 looked like clean water. I checked the pH it was 6.8 to 7.2. I also did the shake test, the BD water separated within 30 - 45 minutes. The only thing I can think of is that this batch was made from vegetable shortening rather than oil. I'm wondering if maybe I should run it back through the process (Aleks Kac Method). As always, any help, advice, or suggestions are appreciated. Sincerely, Gregg Davidson Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Colour of latest batch
Thanks Matt. I'm anxious to see how this will do when mixed. You're the second list member that has advised me of the higher cetane rating. Gregg Matt Pozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I realise that mostly no where else cooks in animal fats, but here is Australia they use beef tallow. This has a very high beta carotene levels due to the feed the animals eat, grass, this makes lovely burgundy coloured biodiesel which like shorteneing has a higher cetane rating due to the large amount of embodied energy in the animals fat. Saturated fats are good for fuel not for people. Just do not try it outside of a temperate climate, it gels at quite a high temperature. The moral of this story is that not all biodiesel is straw coloured! Matt --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, gregg2560 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, I'm at a bit of a loss regarding the colour of my latest batch of biodiesel. It is a medium amber rather than pale straw yellow. This particular batch went through about 8 washes. The water in the first one or two was quite milky as expected, washes 3 - 6 got increasingly clear, the last 2 looked like clean water. I checked the pH it was 6.8 to 7.2. I also did the shake test, the BD water separated within 30 - 45 minutes. The only thing I can think of is that this batch was made from vegetable shortening rather than oil. I'm wondering if maybe I should run it back through the process (Aleks Kac Method). As always, any help, advice, or suggestions are appreciated. Sincerely, Gregg Davidson Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Colour of latest batch
Hi Keith, The colour of my finished product is about the same as the WVO you used, sort of honey-coloured, but it is quite clear. I've made some digital photos that I can send to you the first part of next week, if that's okay. Since I had to wash the last batch separately, you will note that the BD in one jar is a bit lighter colour than the other due to the extra washes. I've made another batch (the 4th) of around 7 litres that I know I'm going to have to reprocess, as it's darker than a Killian's Irish Red, but I'm not certain whether it should have the full reprocessing or just the 2nd Stage. One must learn by doing. Sincerely, Gregg Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Gregg People say all sorts of things about this mater of the colour, and I don't want to argue with them, but for us the straw-yellow indicator has always been a good one, and it follows through with no wash problems, what you'd expect from a good brew. So for our part we agree with what Aleks says about it on our site in the Quality section, that it is a good indicator. The colour of the biodiesel varies very little no matter what sort of gunk we make it out of. Here's a photograph of a sample of recent batch at the end of the process, with a sample of the WVO we used - about average, though we've had much worse. Acid-base. http://journeytoforever.org/colourtest.jpg Here's a picture of biodiesel Todd made from vegetable shortening: http://journeytoforever.org/shorteningbd.jpg He said this at the time: Again, 550 ml of heated shortening, 120 ml methanol and 2.5 grams of KOH at 92% purity. Did a quick swirl wash of 20 ml. No emulsification. Did a frog in a blender wash with same. No emulsification and a sharp separation between phases. HTH Best Keith Hi All, I'm at a bit of a loss regarding the colour of my latest batch of biodiesel. It is a medium amber rather than pale straw yellow. This particular batch went through about 8 washes. The water in the first one or two was quite milky as expected, washes 3 - 6 got increasingly clear, the last 2 looked like clean water. I checked the pH it was 6.8 to 7.2. I also did the shake test, the BD water separated within 30 - 45 minutes. The only thing I can think of is that this batch was made from vegetable shortening rather than oil. I'm wondering if maybe I should run it back through the process (Aleks Kac Method). As always, any help, advice, or suggestions are appreciated. Sincerely, Gregg Davidson Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Colour of latest batch
Hi L, I'll have some digital photos to post next week of the batch of BD in question. That way everyone can have a better idea of the colouring. Gregg bioveging [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Quality testing is explained here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#quality The first wash water SHOUL be milky white as that is where the greatest amount or residuals come out and then it gets clearer on the second and should be clear by the third or fourth at the most. That is the WASH WATER not the BD. It (the BD) may remain a bit cloudy at first but additional settling for a few days (depending on the volume) should yield a shiny amber result. Filter and use. L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Teoman Naskali [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am also in the process of washing my first batch. It has had one wash so far. When it came in contact with water it turned completely milky white. And did not separate for about 15 minutes. And I think some chemical reaction took place as the quantity of gas in the container (2.5l cocacola bottle) diminished. Is there anythin wrong here? I am a bit confused about the shake test, do you apply it to unwashed or washed biodiesel. Thank you, Teoman Naskali [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: pneumatic exhaust silencers / final filtering of biodiesel
Hi L, Thanks for the information on the silencers. Yes, I am in the US $2.80 is not a lot to pay. When I go through the 8 or 10 that I have, I'll get some ordered. Like I mentioned in my post, we used something quite similar in an early form of an oil grease extraction than Varian Scientific was involved with. We actually used them as a final filter for the test. They stood up to whatever we put through them. Now, at present, when I filter my biodiesel I do it the following way: 1) Use a 400 micron cone shaped paint strainer with some cheesecloth. That gets the big stuff. 2) Using the same strainer, but this time I remove the cheesecloth, replace it with a Wipe-All, a very thick paper towel. 3) Using the strainer once more, but replacing the used Wipe-All with 3 or 4 8-12 cup paper coffee filters, then allowing to sit for a few days. This helps considerbly, BUT, since I tend to be a bit anal retentive (that comes with my job), I want to filter it some more. Again, my thanks for the info on those silencers I apologize for being a bit long winded in my reply. Gregg bioveging [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: G'day Greg; http://www.mscdirect.com/MSCCatLookup2.process?MSCProdID=60526142 has the pneumatics you are looking for. They are in the US, so if that is where you are you can easily order them. As far as filtering goes, and I could need a little guidance here also, what I am going to do is, after the final wash, run it through a home heating furnace filter (it has a felt insert)as well as a clear in-line fuel filter effectively filtering it twice and then let it set for a week or to to see if anything else settles (which it shouldn't but...) L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, gregg2560 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, I was wondering where I could purchase the pneumatic exhaust silencers that Ian uses. A few years ago, we used something very similar to them in an early oil/grease extraction test in our wastewater lab, which I was able to scrounge up. If what I have is what Ian uses, then he's right, they don't dissolve in BD, hexane, or acetone. Also, my latest batch of biodiesel is nearly finished I was wondering what type of final filter I need to use, ie 20 micron, 10, etc.I searched the archives didn't find anything, but perhaps I did not look in the right spot. As always,any help,suggestions, or advice is greatly appreciated. Sincerely Gregg Davidson Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: pneumatic exhaust silencers / final filtering of biodiesel
ERROR IN PREVOUS POST: Hi L, The silencers are $2.28, rather than $2.80.I need more coffee to wake up faster. Sorry for the mistake. Gregg the semi-awake bioveging [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: G'day Greg; http://www.mscdirect.com/MSCCatLookup2.process?MSCProdID=60526142 has the pneumatics you are looking for. They are in the US, so if that is where you are you can easily order them. As far as filtering goes, and I could need a little guidance here also, what I am going to do is, after the final wash, run it through a home heating furnace filter (it has a felt insert)as well as a clear in-line fuel filter effectively filtering it twice and then let it set for a week or to to see if anything else settles (which it shouldn't but...) L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, gregg2560 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, I was wondering where I could purchase the pneumatic exhaust silencers that Ian uses. A few years ago, we used something very similar to them in an early oil/grease extraction test in our wastewater lab, which I was able to scrounge up. If what I have is what Ian uses, then he's right, they don't dissolve in BD, hexane, or acetone. Also, my latest batch of biodiesel is nearly finished I was wondering what type of final filter I need to use, ie 20 micron, 10, etc.I searched the archives didn't find anything, but perhaps I did not look in the right spot. As always,any help,suggestions, or advice is greatly appreciated. Sincerely Gregg Davidson Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Price of Fuel
Hi Tom, That explains everything quite clearly. Charts can be a bit cranky sometimes. That would make the dino diesel prices here more along what you stated. Do you have specific info as to where in the Atlanta area one can aquire some B-100 in case I get asked??? Sorry for seemingly being a bit thick. Respectfully yours, Gregg Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You have misinterpreted my chart. The $2.15 is for B100, the price for diesel fuel is $1.12 in Atlanta. Its hard to keep columns in an email document, but you need to straighten out the columns, of which there are four values given for each location: B100, B20, B02 and diesel fuel. Tom Leue In a message dated 7/25/04 11:29:33 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Tom, Thanks for explaining about this more, however, I'm still a bit confused about the numbers for my neck of the woods. As I mentioned, dino-diesel is fairly cheap here, ranging from $1.65 to $1.75 (taxes are included in these prices), those prices are in that range from Rockmart to Douglasville, which is 37 miles away.Maybe somewhere in Downtown Atlanta or along the Interstate Highway somewhere you will find dino-diesel at $2.15, if I'm reading your chart right, but not where I am. There is a Shell station here in Rockmart that sells High Sulfur diesel for off-road use (maybe for farm use too), it's a lot cheaper as I don't think it is taxed, but since I've never bought any, I don't know for sure. Also, Georgia has one of the lowest fuel tax in the USA. Respectfully, Gregg Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: More explanation: these prices are for fuels that are untaxed, and therefore the retail taxed fuel would be around 45¢ per gallon higher, depending on your state. Then too, these are wholesale prices, and the difference between the quoted price, plus tax, and the price at the pump represents the profit that the retailer is selling the fuel for. Generally you can count on 30 to 40¢ per gallon profit on diesel fuel, and somewhat higher on any biodiesel mix. When I say wholesale, I'm talking a minimum of 3000 gallons, and often 7500 gallon or so, a whole truckload Tom Leue In a message dated 7/24/04 4:48:09 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Tom, I couldn't make sense of your post because of the way it came up. Are you comparing the prices for dino diesel biodiesel? My reason for asking is that I live around 75 miles west of Atlanta GA, I know that the price of dino diesel between home work (Rockmart to Douglasville) $1.65 $1.75 (taxes included), I am not aware of any commercial distribution of biodiesel in my area. Also, gasoline ranges from $1.79 (regular) to $1.99 (premium) (taxes included) along my route as well. Respectfully yours, Gregg Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I tried to send this along earlier as an attachment, my bad. People still want this, so here is the market for the eastern part of the country and Canada. Sorry, I don't track the Western part. Tom Leue Latest update:7/22/04 Note: No taxes included. LocalityB-100B-20B-2 Diesel Albany, NY$2.406 $1.403 $1.176 $1.151 Atlanta, GA $2.150 $1.337 $1.135 $1.112 Baltimore, MD $2.453 $1.380 $1.145 $1.117 Boston, MA $2.210 $1.311 $1.149 $1.132 Burlington, VT $2.150 $1.326 $1.154 $1.130 Charleston, WV $2.408 $1.412 $1.184 $1.159 Columbia, SC $2.449 $1.387 $1.139 $1.116 Columbus, OH $2.225 $1.305 $1.104 $1.083 Des Moines, IA $2.414 $1.369 $1.152 $1.127 Dover, DE$2.150 $1.345 $1.161 $1.140 Indianapolis, IN $2.150 $1.279 $1.092 $1.072 Jackson, MS $2.030 $1.304 $1.138 $1.120 Jacksonville, FL $2.208 $1.354 $1.161 $1.140 Little Rock, AR $2.100 $1.317 $1.140 $1.120 Louisville, KY $2.050 $1.324 $1.158 $1.140 Manchester, NH $2.226 $1.373 $1.179 $1.157 Miami, FL$2.100 $1.326 $1.151 $1.132 Minneapolis, MN $2.074 $1.392 $1.188 $1.170 Nashville, TN $2.150 $1.339 $1.138 $1.117 New Orleans, LA $2.400 $1.362 $1.126 $1.100 Newark/NYC, NJ $2.395 $1.394 $1.149 $1.124 Philadelphia, PA $2.100 $1.352 $1.150 $1.130 Pittsburgh, PA $2.452 $1.359 $1.163 $1.137 Portland, ME $2.078 $1.380 $1.176 $1.158 Providence, RI $2.184 $1.367 $1.161 $1.145 Raleigh, NC
Re: [biofuel] Re: Price of Fuel
Hi Tom, Thanks for explaining about this more, however, I'm still a bit confused about the numbers for my neck of the woods. As I mentioned, dino-diesel is fairly cheap here, ranging from $1.65 to $1.75 (taxes are included in these prices), those prices are in that range from Rockmart to Douglasville, which is 37 miles away.Maybe somewhere in Downtown Atlanta or along the Interstate Highway somewhere you will find dino-diesel at $2.15, if I'm reading your chart right, but not where I am. There is a Shell station here in Rockmart that sells High Sulfur diesel for off-road use (maybe for farm use too), it's a lot cheaper as I don't think it is taxed, but since I've never bought any, I don't know for sure. Also, Georgia has one of the lowest fuel tax in the USA. Respectfully, Gregg Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: More explanation: these prices are for fuels that are untaxed, and therefore the retail taxed fuel would be around 45¢ per gallon higher, depending on your state. Then too, these are wholesale prices, and the difference between the quoted price, plus tax, and the price at the pump represents the profit that the retailer is selling the fuel for. Generally you can count on 30 to 40¢ per gallon profit on diesel fuel, and somewhat higher on any biodiesel mix. When I say wholesale, I'm talking a minimum of 3000 gallons, and often 7500 gallon or so, a whole truckload Tom Leue In a message dated 7/24/04 4:48:09 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Tom, I couldn't make sense of your post because of the way it came up. Are you comparing the prices for dino diesel biodiesel? My reason for asking is that I live around 75 miles west of Atlanta GA, I know that the price of dino diesel between home work (Rockmart to Douglasville) $1.65 $1.75 (taxes included), I am not aware of any commercial distribution of biodiesel in my area. Also, gasoline ranges from $1.79 (regular) to $1.99 (premium) (taxes included) along my route as well. Respectfully yours, Gregg Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I tried to send this along earlier as an attachment, my bad. People still want this, so here is the market for the eastern part of the country and Canada. Sorry, I don't track the Western part. Tom Leue Latest update:7/22/04 Note: No taxes included. LocalityB-100B-20B-2 Diesel Albany, NY$2.406 $1.403 $1.176 $1.151 Atlanta, GA $2.150 $1.337 $1.135 $1.112 Baltimore, MD $2.453 $1.380 $1.145 $1.117 Boston, MA $2.210 $1.311 $1.149 $1.132 Burlington, VT $2.150 $1.326 $1.154 $1.130 Charleston, WV $2.408 $1.412 $1.184 $1.159 Columbia, SC $2.449 $1.387 $1.139 $1.116 Columbus, OH $2.225 $1.305 $1.104 $1.083 Des Moines, IA $2.414 $1.369 $1.152 $1.127 Dover, DE$2.150 $1.345 $1.161 $1.140 Indianapolis, IN $2.150 $1.279 $1.092 $1.072 Jackson, MS $2.030 $1.304 $1.138 $1.120 Jacksonville, FL $2.208 $1.354 $1.161 $1.140 Little Rock, AR $2.100 $1.317 $1.140 $1.120 Louisville, KY $2.050 $1.324 $1.158 $1.140 Manchester, NH $2.226 $1.373 $1.179 $1.157 Miami, FL$2.100 $1.326 $1.151 $1.132 Minneapolis, MN $2.074 $1.392 $1.188 $1.170 Nashville, TN $2.150 $1.339 $1.138 $1.117 New Orleans, LA $2.400 $1.362 $1.126 $1.100 Newark/NYC, NJ $2.395 $1.394 $1.149 $1.124 Philadelphia, PA $2.100 $1.352 $1.150 $1.130 Pittsburgh, PA $2.452 $1.359 $1.163 $1.137 Portland, ME $2.078 $1.380 $1.176 $1.158 Providence, RI $2.184 $1.367 $1.161 $1.145 Raleigh, NC $2.178 $1.343 $1.139 $1.121 Richmond, VA $2.150 $1.348 $1.150 $1.126 St. Louis, MO $2.218 $1.353 $1.163 $1.141 U.S. Average: $2.224 $1.351 $1.151 $1.129 Montreal, QC $2.119 $1.426 $1.191 $1.167 Ottawa, ON $2.119 $1.437 $1.195 $1.181 Toronto, ON $2.119 $1.396 $1.224 $1.206 Canada Average: $2.119 $1.420 $1.203 $1.185 Minimum: $2.030 Local Average: $2.221 - Homestead Inc. www.yellowbiodiesel.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http
Re: [biofuel] Re: Price of Fuel
Hi Tom, I couldn't make sense of your post because of the way it came up. Are you comparing the prices for dino diesel biodiesel? My reason for asking is that I live around 75 miles west of Atlanta GA, I know that the price of dino diesel between home work (Rockmart to Douglasville) $1.65 $1.75 (taxes included), I am not aware of any commercial distribution of biodiesel in my area. Also, gasoline ranges from $1.79 (regular) to $1.99 (premium) (taxes included) along my route as well. Respectfully yours, Gregg Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I tried to send this along earlier as an attachment, my bad. People still want this, so here is the market for the eastern part of the country and Canada. Sorry, I don't track the Western part. Tom Leue Latest update:7/22/04 Note: No taxes included. LocalityB-100B-20B-2 Diesel Albany, NY$2.406 $1.403 $1.176 $1.151 Atlanta, GA $2.150 $1.337 $1.135 $1.112 Baltimore, MD $2.453 $1.380 $1.145 $1.117 Boston, MA $2.210 $1.311 $1.149 $1.132 Burlington, VT $2.150 $1.326 $1.154 $1.130 Charleston, WV $2.408 $1.412 $1.184 $1.159 Columbia, SC $2.449 $1.387 $1.139 $1.116 Columbus, OH $2.225 $1.305 $1.104 $1.083 Des Moines, IA $2.414 $1.369 $1.152 $1.127 Dover, DE$2.150 $1.345 $1.161 $1.140 Indianapolis, IN $2.150 $1.279 $1.092 $1.072 Jackson, MS $2.030 $1.304 $1.138 $1.120 Jacksonville, FL $2.208 $1.354 $1.161 $1.140 Little Rock, AR $2.100 $1.317 $1.140 $1.120 Louisville, KY $2.050 $1.324 $1.158 $1.140 Manchester, NH $2.226 $1.373 $1.179 $1.157 Miami, FL$2.100 $1.326 $1.151 $1.132 Minneapolis, MN $2.074 $1.392 $1.188 $1.170 Nashville, TN $2.150 $1.339 $1.138 $1.117 New Orleans, LA $2.400 $1.362 $1.126 $1.100 Newark/NYC, NJ $2.395 $1.394 $1.149 $1.124 Philadelphia, PA $2.100 $1.352 $1.150 $1.130 Pittsburgh, PA $2.452 $1.359 $1.163 $1.137 Portland, ME $2.078 $1.380 $1.176 $1.158 Providence, RI $2.184 $1.367 $1.161 $1.145 Raleigh, NC $2.178 $1.343 $1.139 $1.121 Richmond, VA $2.150 $1.348 $1.150 $1.126 St. Louis, MO $2.218 $1.353 $1.163 $1.141 U.S. Average: $2.224 $1.351 $1.151 $1.129 Montreal, QC $2.119 $1.426 $1.191 $1.167 Ottawa, ON $2.119 $1.437 $1.195 $1.181 Toronto, ON $2.119 $1.396 $1.224 $1.206 Canada Average: $2.119 $1.420 $1.203 $1.185 Minimum: $2.030 Local Average: $2.221 - Homestead Inc. www.yellowbiodiesel.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] question about biofuel
Hi Richard Darryl is correct. When I first joined the group I asked the same question. I got a reply from a list member in Taiwan that perhaps did some experimentation. He advised to use no more than a 15% mixed with your gasoline. I successfully tried this out for myself with a 14.5 HP lawn tractor with no notable problems a couple of weeks ago. My stepson cut most of the 8 acre yard on 2 fill-ups of 1.25 gallons. I'm currently working on a larger batch for my mini van, which will also run on E-85.however, I don't think that there is any to be had in Georgia. Regards, Gregg Davidson Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You cannot run a gasoline engine on biodiesel. You probably can run it on ethanol or an ethanol/gasoline blend. Some folks have put small quantities of biodiesel in their gasoline tanks for the lubricity characteristics, but not as a main fuel. If you want to run biodiesel, you will need to remove the existing engine and replace it with a diesel engine. This is unlikely to be easy or inexpensive, especially with modern, North American vehicles. You will be better off (IMHO) to buy a diesel vehicle that meets your needs, and sell the gasoline-powered vehicle. Darryl McMahon Richard Dambrov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I am new to biofuel so I have many questions. The main question I have is can I convert my regular unleaded fossil gasoline truck to take biodiesel? Is it realistic and/or relatively inexpensive? If so, what are some resources to make it inexpensive? Rich - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links -- Darryl McMahon http://www.econogics.com/ It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Any1 help to find methanol in GA, metro Atlanta
Hi Chris, I'm sort of a nieghbour to you as I'm over in Rockmart, GA. At present, I'm only making small batches until I get the hang of it. What's the current price for the methanol?? Please advise. Gregg Davidson chris edmonson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have methanol, I recently bought 55 gal for making biodiesel. I would consider selling a couple of gal. To ship methanol is very expensive due to it being a hazaedeous material. I'm located in Powder Springs, GA . Note veterans Oil Co. in Austell sell 55 gal drums of methanol not yourbuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Please any 1!!! I need to do my first test baches but the problem I had is to find methanol in small quantities. Like 1 gallon or so. I have my Red devil LYE , I have cooking oil (virgin) but no methanol!! I willing to pay if someone can send me by mail. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Chris Edmonson - Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] PLEASE READ - MODERATOR'S MESSAGE
Hakan / Keith, What has happened, somebody hack the group??? I know that yesterday I had 250+ messages it took time to sort them out. I wasn't sure if that was the result of the hacker, or it was normal e-mail. Gregg - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] PLEASE READ - MODERATOR'S MESSAGE Keith, This is very disturbing and will fall back on the perpetrators and what they represent. I hope that you can ride out this storm and I am sure that we who really find this list useful and balanced, will support you in your difficulties. I suggest that we create a backup list on a majordomo backup list somewhere and let us sign up for that. Such a list might have better banning features and give better vetting possibilities, if it ever come to a stage were it would be needed to leave Yahoo groups and their limited protection in such cases. We could also create a signup to accounts on our own mail domain (similar to hotmail) and use that one as the only way to get on to the list. The best is to try to fight it out and block any who tries to overload the list. It would also be a good thing to publish the names from which the attacks comes from, because it could be a result from a virus and the sender must be informed about that he/she is a potential problem and that over the list. Hakan At 06:32 19/06/2004, you wrote: Dear all My apologies for this ghastly flood of old messages we've all been subjected to in the last 24 hours. This was a attack on the list by a hacker, highly malicious and extremely childish. I hope to be able to tell you more about it soon. For now, the culprit has, I think, been dealt with and hopefully it should be over. There were 800 false messages sent altogether in 24 hours. I managed to stop 500 of them, but there was nothing I could do about the rest, I'm very sorry to say. They were all previous messages from bona-fide list members sent again with the current date. Yahoo, as expected, proved worse than useless when it came to any assistance - their own website and its controls had been compromised, but they just weren't interested. Unfortunately, some genuine messages got caught up in the flood of false messages. I managed to save some of them, which I'm now forwarding to the list. Others may have been lost. If your message does not show up, please send it again. My apologies for this too. I suppose there'll be some residual confusion for a day or so, but I do hope we can all now get on with business-as-usual free of interference from people I can only describe as psychopaths. Meanwhile I've had to set the whole list to Moderated to stem this flood of garbage. This is just an emergency measure and I'll reset it to Unmoderated as soon as it seems safe to do so. In the meantime there'll be some delay while new messages wait to be cleared, sorry for the inconvenience. What has surprised me is that more list members haven't unsubscribed, faced with this onslaught. Few if any seem to have done so. Thankyou so much for your patience and tolerance. A nice demonstration of just what a tiny minority among sane and decent people the sociopathic element is, even on the Internet. Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to:
Re: [biofuel] KOH in the USA
Hi Derek, I'm not sure about where to tell you to look for the KOH, but the NaOH is fairly common around my neck of the woods as Red Devil lye drain opener. I haven't found a major supplier of methanol yet, but since I'm experimenting with small batches, .5 to 1 litre, I can get what I need as HEET gas line dryer. It's only 75 cents per 12 oz bottle at a local retailer. I'll be more than happy to pass along any information I find about the KOH. Gregg - Original Message - From: Derek Sceats To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 8:32 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] KOH in the USA Hi Gregg, Thanks for the response. I am really curious where people are getting the chemicals like KOH and sulphuric acid, so hopefully so of the seasoned veterans will shed some light there. I understand that lye works well, though I am interested in testing KOH as an alternative, since some folks seem to swear by it. I am also hoping to get into the acid-base method down the road, but that is still some time into the future. Derek == htmlbody tt Hi Derek,BR BR You may or may not be able to get chemicals from Fisher. Unless they have changed policies, if you are an individual amp; not a business, you could only buy non-chemical items from them if you open an account. Red Devil brand lye is good enough.BR BR GreggBR nbsp; - Original Message - BR nbsp; From: Derek Sceats BR nbsp; To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com BR nbsp; Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 12:12 PMBR nbsp; Subject: [biofuel] KOH in the USABR BR BR nbsp; What is a good source for purchasing KOH in the States?nbsp; Do you have to BR nbsp; go through chemical suppliers like Fisher Scientific?nbsp; What level of BR nbsp; purity is required?nbsp; Any recommendations?nbsp; I am at the point of BR nbsp; starting some quot;lab testingquot; with NaOH and KOH.nbsp; Thanks for the help.BR BR nbsp; DerekBR BR BR BR nbsp; Biofuel at Journey to Forever:BR nbsp; a href=http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html;http://journeytoforever. org/biofuel.html/aBR BR nbsp; Biofuels list archives:BR nbsp; a href=http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/;http://infoarchive.net/sgr oup/biofuel//aBR BR nbsp; Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.BR nbsp; To unsubscribe, send an email to:BR nbsp; [EMAIL PROTECTED] BR BR BR nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; Yahoo! Groups Sponsor BR nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; nbsp; ADVERTISEMENTBR nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; BR nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; BR nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; BR BR BR -- BR nbsp; Yahoo! Groups LinksBR BR nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:BR nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; a href=http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/;http://groups.yahoo.com/gr oup/biofuel//aBR nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; BR nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:BR nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; [EMAIL PROTECTED]BR nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; BR nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. BR BR BR BR [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]BR BR BR /tt brbr tt Biofuel at Journey to Forever:BR a href=http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html;http://journeytoforever. org/biofuel.html/aBR BR Biofuels list archives:BR a href=http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/;http://infoarchive.net/sgr oup/biofuel//aBR BR Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.BR To unsubscribe, send an email to:BR [EMAIL PROTECTED]/tt brbr br !-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -- table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2 tr bgcolor=#CC td align=centerfont size=-1 color=#003399bYahoo! Groups Sponsor/b/font/td /tr tr bgcolor=#FF td align=center width=470table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 tr td align=centerfont face=arial size=- 2ADVERTISEMENT/fontbra href=http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=1295akajs/M=298184.5022502.6152625.300 1176/D=groups/S=1705083269:HM/EXP=1087529727/A=2164331/R=0/SIG=11eaelai9 /*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60183351; alt=img src=http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ne/netflix/yhoo0504_testb_30025 0a052604.gif alt=click here width=300 height=250 border=0/a/td/tr/table /td /tr trtdimg alt= width=1 height=1 src=http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l? M=298184.5022502.6152625.3001176/D=groups/S=:HM/A=2164331/rand=118391717 /td/tr /table !-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -- !-- |**|begin egp html
Re: [biofuel] KOH in the USA
Hi Derek, You may or may not be able to get chemicals from Fisher. Unless they have changed policies, if you are an individual not a business, you could only buy non-chemical items from them if you open an account. Red Devil brand lye is good enough. Gregg - Original Message - From: Derek Sceats To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 12:12 PM Subject: [biofuel] KOH in the USA What is a good source for purchasing KOH in the States? Do you have to go through chemical suppliers like Fisher Scientific? What level of purity is required? Any recommendations? I am at the point of starting some lab testing with NaOH and KOH. Thanks for the help. Derek Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] wondering about this comment
Keith, may I ask a fool question? Is this a newsgroup that is mainly about alternative fuels, or is it a political outlet for folks that wouldn't be happy no matter what? I am getting very tired of reading all the negative personal politics of some of the members. I know this is a free country they have the right to express their views, but I ALSO have the right to express my opinion by saying I've heard enough of your nonsense, so sit down shut your pie-hole! when it gets out of hand. Gregg Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve wrote: I am a neutral observer. To distinguish between what is just and what is not. Jews have taken other peoples' homes and have driven them out of their land. i understand that all the arabs have accepted the fact that Isreal is to exist. They have offered to live in peace provided Isreal returns all the land it stole from the arabs in 1967. Why have Jews rejected it? If this person went to work.. made money that he earned would he feel that the money still belongs to his employer? Wow, what a superficial view. A barbaric view actually. You really see no difference between paid employment and an army of occupation? What a cosy view you have of what happens in the world. You spend your life in an armchair atop an ivory tower? Applying this logic of yours, if a bank teller on his day off pulled a successful armed robbery at his bank, heisting a few million or so and killing a couple of other employees in the doing, by rights it's his money, eh? It's the bank's own fault for not paying him more, and the collateral damage folks' fault for getting in the way. End of story? I can understand why Hakan got so angry with you. When you capture territories in a war ... they are yours.. not the people you captured it from. These are the same things.. Might is right. That's the caveman's way, brother - and it's much to be doubted that even cavemen (who almost certainly didn't live in caves) held to that view. Much more likely they were cooperative folks like the rest of us. Or the rest of us that aren't psychopaths anyway. That the psychopathic school of world statesmanship has been getting a dose of steroids from certain quarters in the last couple of years doesn't make it any the less psychopathic, and a goodly proportion of those same steroids can be sourced straight back to these same psychopaths you're defending. That is why the Jews have rejected giving the land back. Israelis. Some Israelis, increasingly rejected and vilified by other Israelis. It is theirs.. they were attacked... they won. They were attacked? The other guy started it you think? You think who or what started it is what counts? End of story... this was not a land grab...this was the spoils of war. Well, you got yourself into this, most ill-advisedly, I'm wondering how you're going to get yourself out of it again with any credibility left, and doubt that you will. I suggest you check out the previous messages in the thread, though I doubt that you'll bother - more fool you, if not: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/34947/1 Warning: don't waste everybody's time and annoy people by trundling out arguments that have already been dealt with. Go and do your homework first. I wonder too why you changed the title. It was Oil and Israel. Keith Addison Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/ List owner Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Gregg - Re: [biofuel] wondering about this comment
Hi Keith, Thanks for explaining things about this forum. I just get un-nerved from time to time about things. Yes, I am an American proud to be one. My country has it's share of problems it is not a perfect society I will grant you. I am not really surprised that I am in a minority here, but in the interest of global cooperation, I will try my best to be tolerant of any differing opinions of fellow members. Gregg - Original Message - From: Keith Addison To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 1:11 AM Subject: Gregg - Re: [biofuel] wondering about this comment Hello Gregg Keith, may I ask a fool question? Is this a newsgroup that is mainly about alternative fuels, or is it a political outlet for folks that wouldn't be happy no matter what? I am getting very tired of reading all the negative personal politics Pardon me, but all that means is stuff I don't agree with. of some of the members. I know this is a free country This is not a free country, this is not a country at all, this is the global Internet, and this mailing list has a large international membership with members from more than a hundred countries and just about every culture. You're an American, right? Americans are just a minority here, though a valued one. It's strange to have to say it but that comes as a big surprise to some Americans, and some fail to adapt to it. they have the right to express their views, but I ALSO have the right to express my opinion by saying I've heard enough of your nonsense, so sit down shut your pie-hole! when it gets out of hand. In your view, but as to whether you have the right to express it, you can express it, but people don't have automatic, inalienable rights here. This is not a public place, it's more like a private club, you have to join, joining gives you privileges, not rights, with the privileges come obligations, if you ignore the obligations you lose the privileges, just like any other club. Now, first, nobody's forcing you to read anything, messages have subject lines after all. If you don't know how to handle a mailing list maybe this will help you: http://archive.nnytech.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/21700/ Second, as to your either/or question above, here are a couple of the many previous views expressed on this, by Americans: What on earth does this have to do with biofuels? A lot more than one might think off the cuff, especially when it comes to who makes the decisions that let you run biofuel on a roadway or not. Another: The problems are compounded by many years of fundamentally flawed energy policy, and that's the reason why this discussion BELONGS on a biofuels list. And: Political discussion is VITAL to the future of biofuels. And: For a copy of our anti-war/biodiesel alternatives factsheet, please see: http://www.veggieavenger.com/news/news.shtml Etc etc etc. It's not either/or, so-called political discussion is never more than a minority of posts, all kinds of biofuels discussions continue all the while nonetheless, and in fact the two things are complementary. As to whether it's got out of hand as you claim, the original title of this thread was Oil and Israel, and it shouldn't have been changed. Here's the whole thread: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/34947/1 Off-topic you think? With such a wide-ranging membership, what's on- or off-topic is very much a matter of opinion. As it is now, the critical role played by Israel in the Middle East, in US policy in the Middle East, and especially of all this in oil politics (yes!), is not discussed nearly enough, especially in the US, mainly because every time someone tries to do so in public they get attacked and often threatened for criticising Israel being anti-Semites being Nazis who're full of hate and so on (it all happened right here) - while, even more obnoxiously, this is used to cloak just such behaviour in Israel as these people are accusing others of fomenting. That will no longer happen here, that was the outcome of this thread (before Steve went and reopened it in such a foolish way). This is now a colonial Zionist-spin-free zone where such crucial issues as Oil and Israel can freely be discussed without fear or favour. As I've just said in another message, it's a *Biofuel* list, not just a biodiesel list or something - all energy issues are relevant to biofuels discussions. That is a long-established tradition of this list, much discussed and endorsed by the majority of the list membership. That said, it's also the best place for discussion and information on making and using biodiesel, as many have found. The list has helped many people from being rank newbies to making ASTM-grade biodiesel within only a few months. All biofuels are discussed here, there's room
Re: [biofuel] First test batch of Biodiesel
Hi Sukumar, The oil I am using was first heated to 140* C held there for 15 minutes. As far as the acid is concerned, I have access to both H2SO4 HCL. I figure that it is best to use H2SO4 since it is oil based, but how much should I use in a 500 millilitre test batch? Thanks for your help. Gregg - Original Message - From: sukumar puhan To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 2:00 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] First test batch of Biodiesel Heloo Gregg, Here sukumar from india. Good as you are trying with fresh oil but one thing fresh oil may contain high free fatty acid and moisture, so when u add NaOH it forms soap. Plz you may try with acid catalyst like H2SO4 or HCL. thnking you sukumar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm currently working on my first test batch of BD am using fresh unused corn oil.Has anyone tried this? If so, what sort of reaction will I see as far as separation into different layers?? Any help, suggestions, or advice will be greatly appreciated. Gregg Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly...Ping your friends today! Download Messenger Now [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel in non-diesel engines
Hi Curtis I received a messge from JC in Taiwan yesterday. Aparently, he's experimented with mixing biodiesel gasoline advised me NOT to use more than a 15% mixture. My Pontiac Grand Am GT (3.1L V-6) is the car I'm considering trying biodiesel in, rather than the mini van. Gregg - Original Message - From: Curtis Sakima To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2004 5:03 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel in non-diesel engines E-85 is like gasoline ... made for spark ignition. Biodiesel is like dinodiesel made for compression-ignition. I'm not sure if that'll work. Curtis Nothing says I love you like a bouquet of flowers! http://www.flowerson55.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am new to this group have an interest in using biodiesel fuel,however, none of my vehicles has a diesel engine. The closest thing I have is the 3.3L V6 engine in my mini van that will run on E-85. Can biodiesel be used by adding it to the gas or am I just S.O.L.??? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
