Re: [svg-developers] Re: Macromedia SVGT in Flash Lie 1.1
On Saturday 26 March 2005 17:06, Robin Berjon wrote: And in case you hadn't noticed, SVG has gained and continues to gain significant traction. It's the darling of the mobile world. I thank my lucky stars daily that 3GPP specified svg as one the formats for MMS. Suddenly, SVG became relevant again. Until the 3G spec became relevant, nobody was be looking at svg for mobiles for serious work. I am unaware of any serious SVG experimentations that predate 3GPP's adoption of svg. I spent some time evangelizing SVG for mobiles from the inside at mobile service providers a year ago, and the general consensus was 'yeah, r ight.We'll see what 3G does, but until then we're not interested'... Maybe JD is just removed enough from the context to be usefully claravoyant. Ronan -- Hello, he lied. -- Don Carpenter quoting a Hollywood agent -- contact me: ronan at roasp dot com - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Macromedia SVGT in Flash Lie 1.1
Christian++ On Saturday 26 March 2005 21:02, chwenz wrote: his usual liar FUD hasn't done any homework, checked a single fact statements that can be easily proven wrong repeating false statement upon false statement and we've been once again more than polite enough To get my own opinion out of the way, I forwarded the whole thread to three people from a completely other industry who do not have any insights on SVG or Flash and asked them about their opinion, which of the parties in this thread is rather polite and which behaves like an aggressor. Guess once what they said. So *please* let's all try to keep the tone down, this does not help SVG a bit. --Christian - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links -- When the weight of the paperwork equals the weight of the plane, the plane will fly. -- Donald Douglas -- contact me: ronan at roasp dot com - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Re: Macromedia SVGT in Flash Lie 1.1
Hi, JD- I guess I was barking up the wrong tree. Sorry, I assumed that since you hang out on svg-dev, that you were the interface for Macromedia on SVG. If you can't answer these questions, can you tell me who can? Is Troy Evans the person to contact about non-technical SVG issues in Flash/Lite? Or perhaps someone who is in the know, and does attend marketing meetings? It seems such a waste to have these SVG libs sitting there unused. You imply that your clients don't have to pay extra for for these libs, except for the app size, and you also state that Macromedia is under NDA; but surely your client companies are not under any such constraint. Perhaps it would be best for us to try to contact them? Regards- Doug doug . schepers @ vectoreal.com www.vectoreal.com ...for scalable solutions. John Dowdell wrote: | | | Doug Schepers wrote: | But you didn't address my other | question, about the idea of including SVG support by default. Could | you speak about the feasibility of this? What would it take for | Macromedia to support SVG-Tiny by default? | | | I drafted a reply, but then noticed there was just a stream | of different questions, some of which were answered already. | The risk of a rephrase is that certain of the more, ah, | volatile posters to this list would then have an opportunity | for a new Tourette's episode. | | I'm assuming your top question is the main one. If so, then I | don't know the feasability, I don't sit in the marketing | meetings, and I don't see exact costs (from various parties' | perspectives) listed on the website. Right now I do know that | there's a lot of Flash Lite shipping, and that manufacturers | have the option to include conformant SVG-T rendering (at | cost of some memory), but these manufacturers and carriers | don't seem to advertise such SVG on their own sites. I don't | know the why of each such decision. | | I'm still not sure what Yoshi was really trying to do, either. | | | jd | | | | -- | John Dowdell . Macromedia Developer Support . San Francisco CA USA | Weblog: http://www.macromedia.com/go/blog_jd | Aggregator: http://www.macromedia.com/go/weblogs | Technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/ | Spam killed my private email -- public record is best, thanks. | | | - | To unsubscribe send a message to: | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | -or- | visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click | edit my membership | | Yahoo! Groups Links | | | | | | | | -- | No virus found in this incoming message. | Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. | Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 | | - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Macromedia SVGT in Flash Lie 1.1
Dean Jackson wrote: We're talking about SVG Tiny and Flash Lite on constrained devices (such as mobile phones). This doesn't include Adobe Any thoughts on Adobe Reader LE + SVG Tiny down the road? michael bolger NTT DoCoMo Adopts Adobe Reader LE for Its 3G Mobile Platform http://www.japancorp.net/Article.Asp?Art_ID=9594 http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2005/Mar/1123638.htm - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Macromedia SVGT in Flash Lie 1.1
Doug Schepers wrote: But I wonder why people aren't going for the SVG libs? John, can you tell us if you charge more for SVG capability? How about the size of the libs compared to the overall size of the viewer? Sorry, I don't have that information. Particularly on the pricing angle, details would likely depend on the individual manufacturing deal. For filesize I'd suspect it would be about the same size as the other SVG rendering schemes in SWF, but I haven't downloaded and compared to get the exact difference. Yoshihiko Matsumoto wrote: If we pay $10 to download Flash Lite 1.1 from Macromedia direct link is SVG-T engine included? If not, can you give us SVG-T engine after we pay $10 for Flash Lite 1.1? I don't think it's part of that download, but I haven't had the free time to personally check it. Those pages do have a feedback link, though, if you don't immediately see what you'd like. (But note that those links are more useful for developers than for consumers, in case you purchased an early version of a phone before its software was bundled in.) jd -- John Dowdell . Macromedia Developer Support . San Francisco CA USA Weblog: http://www.macromedia.com/go/blog_jd Aggregator: http://www.macromedia.com/go/weblogs Technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/ Spam killed my private email -- public record is best, thanks. - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Re: Macromedia SVGT in Flash Lie 1.1
Hi, JD- I know you're busy, and SVG is clearly not one of your high priorities, but forgive me for my persistence, since it is one of mine. Thanks for your reply; I look forward to your updates on the subject when you can find out more information. But you didn't address my other question, about the idea of including SVG support by default. Could you speak about the feasibility of this? What would it take for Macromedia to support SVG-Tiny by default? As a consumer, I would be extremely confused if a product said that it has support for a feature, but turns out not to support it in practical terms. For instance, if I bought a a portable MP3 player that says clearly on the box that it supports MP3s (or maybe Ogg Vorbis would be a better example ;), but wouldn't play them because of licensing issues, I would call that false advertising. I'm not trying to be a jerk, here... I'm just drawing what I think is an apt metaphor, and I'm trying to support the spread of SVG, including into the Flash player. It seems such a natural match. It says on your site [1]: SVG-T Playback Operators and OEMs can now license a single solution that supports Flash as well as animations created using SVG-T. MMS assets, WAP browsers, and other applications can all be enabled to support Flash and SVG-T playback using Flash Lite 1.1. If you don't support it out of the box, please say so on your site. This wording is deceptive, if not untrue; perhaps you could get them to change the wording to something like: SVG-T Playback Optionally, operators and OEMs can now license a single solution that supports Flash as well as animations created using SVG-T. MMS assets, WAP browsers, and other applications can all be enabled to support Flash and SVG-T playback using Flash Lite 1.1 with the correct license. So far, you haven't told us (and I haven't been able to find out myself) which phones support it, which phones *might* support it, whether it's included in the publicly available download, or where we can get it at all. Y'all are being as cagey as Adobe. ;) Another part of your site [2] says: Why did Macromedia decide to incorporate SVG-T support? Adding SVG-T support was a direct request from our European customers and is part of the 3GPP standard. Macromedia is committed to supporting industry standards and is ensuring that our technologies do so as well. A more cynical person might be tempted to say that SVG is included in FlashLite in name only, and only for marketing and compliance purposes. But I'm sure that Macromedia is not being disingenuous, that they just don't see the market potential. You're well-versed in SVG... What's your personal opinion about the best way to get SVG-Tiny included in FlashLite in a substansive way? [1] http://www.macromedia.com/software/flashlite/productinfo/features/index.html #item-4 [2] http://www.macromedia.com/software/flashlite/productinfo/faq/#itemC-5 Regards- Doug doug . schepers @ vectoreal.com www.vectoreal.com ...for scalable solutions. John Dowdell wrote: | | Doug Schepers wrote: | But I wonder why people aren't going for the SVG libs? | John, can you tell us if you charge more for SVG | capability? How about the size of the libs compared to the | overall size of the viewer? | | Sorry, I don't have that information. Particularly on the | pricing angle, details would likely depend on the individual | manufacturing deal. For filesize I'd suspect it would be | about the same size as the other SVG rendering schemes in | SWF, but I haven't downloaded and compared to get the exact | difference. | | | Yoshihiko Matsumoto wrote: | If we pay $10 to download Flash Lite 1.1 from Macromedia | direct link is SVG-T engine included? If not, can you give | us SVG-T engine after we pay $10 for Flash Lite 1.1? | | I don't think it's part of that download, but I haven't had | the free time to personally check it. Those pages do have a | feedback link, though, if you don't immediately see what | you'd like. (But note that those links are more useful for | developers than for consumers, in case you purchased an early | version of a phone before its software was bundled in.) | | jd | - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Re: Macromedia SVGT in Flash Lie 1.1
Dean Jackson wrote: You're effectively implementing a virtual machine for SVG on a device with limited processing power while your competitors are doing it natively. Well, I can't necessarily agree, given than neither Adobe nor Microsoft has delivered anything new and native in quite some time or never, in the case of Microsoft. And those are the competitors, not boutique SVG providers, IMO. Perhaps the boutique guys apply more in the mobile space, but I'm looking for some mainstream momentum on full SVG front. A lot of the TinySVG stuff I've seen could just as easily been done as animated images... In any case, I'm anxiously awaiting Adobe's next move... - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Macromedia SVGT in Flash Lie 1.1
On 28 Mar 2005, at 03:59, Rick Bullotta wrote: Dean Jackson wrote: You're effectively implementing a virtual machine for SVG on a device with limited processing power while your competitors are doing it natively. Well, I can't necessarily agree, given than neither Adobe nor Microsoft has delivered anything new and native in quite some time or never, in the case of Microsoft. We're talking about SVG Tiny and Flash Lite on constrained devices (such as mobile phones). This doesn't include Adobe and Microsoft at the moment. And those are the competitors, not boutique SVG providers, IMO. I think the Ikivo/Zoomon distribution is in the tens of millions, and, unlike Adobe, they are not giving it away free. I wish I owned that boutique :) Perhaps the boutique guys apply more in the mobile space, but I'm looking for some mainstream momentum on full SVG front. A lot of the TinySVG stuff I've seen could just as easily been done as animated images... Well, SVGTiny animations are animated images, just not vector. As Jim says, it's scripting that makes the difference. He also says that many of his full use cases are met by SVG Tiny 1.2. In any case, I'm anxiously awaiting Adobe's next move... I think many people are. They've indicated a few times in this group that they intend to move soonish. Dean - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Re: Macromedia SVGT in Flash Lie 1.1
After this type of divisiveness, must we wonder why SVG is having trouble gaining significant traction...? ANYTHING that gets SVG used is a net gain at this point, irregardless of whose viewer, whose drawing tools, or on what platform. - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Re: Macromedia SVGT in Flash Lie 1.1
Hi, Rick- I agree with your sentiment, but given what has been said of the deployment of SVG-Tiny on the FlashLite viewer, I'm not sure you could say that it *is* getting SVG used. Naturally, Macromedia needs to make money, and I don't fault them for that. And keeping their viewer small may be enough incentive for them to exclude the SVG-T libraries by default, thus making it more attractive to some licensees. But I wonder why people aren't going for the SVG libs? John, can you tell us if you charge more for SVG capability? How about the size of the libs compared to the overall size of the viewer? Maybe you could include the SVG libs by default, and see who complains or applauds. It might be that your licensees simply don't understand the value, but that given the exposure, they will see what they gain or lose. It seems to me that this would be valuable market data for both Macromedia and anyone licensing FlashLite. If people really don't see the value, you could remove the libs; and if they do like it, you might even consider charging more for it, and adding support for SVG in your authoring products (possibly even at a higher premium). Regards- Doug doug . schepers @ vectoreal.com www.vectoreal.com ...for scalable solutions. Rick Bullotta wrote: | | | After this type of divisiveness, must we wonder why SVG is | having trouble gaining significant traction...? | | ANYTHING that gets SVG used is a net gain at this point, | irregardless of whose viewer, whose drawing tools, or on what | platform. - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Macromedia SVGT in Flash Lie 1.1
Rick Bullotta wrote: After this type of divisiveness, must we wonder why SVG is having trouble gaining significant traction...? What divisiveness? John Dowdell is being his usual liar and spreading FUD like in Europe, SVG was forced because of 3GPP and as usual hasn't done any homework, checked a single fact, and is making statements that can be easily proven wrong. He's not answering questions that are being asked in kindness and honesty, just repeating false statement upon false statement in the hope that someone will believe it if it's repeated enough. I feel that we've been once again more than polite enough in answering him. I must say that I'm sad to see a company that did so much cool stuff for many years having fallen so low. And in case you hadn't noticed, SVG has gained and continues to gain significant traction. It's the darling of the mobile world. -- Robin Berjon Research Scientist Expway, http://expway.com/ - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Re: Macromedia SVGT in Flash Lie 1.1
I second that motion! How will we ever get Microsoft on board with all this squabbling? g -Original Message- From: chwenz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 3:03 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] Re: Macromedia SVGT in Flash Lie 1.1 his usual liar FUD hasn't done any homework, checked a single fact statements that can be easily proven wrong repeating false statement upon false statement and we've been once again more than polite enough To get my own opinion out of the way, I forwarded the whole thread to three people from a completely other industry who do not have any insights on SVG or Flash and asked them about their opinion, which of the parties in this thread is rather polite and which behaves like an aggressor. Guess once what they said. So *please* let's all try to keep the tone down, this does not help SVG a bit. --Christian - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Macromedia SVGT in Flash Lie 1.1
chwenz wrote: his usual liar FUD hasn't done any homework, checked a single fact statements that can be easily proven wrong repeating false statement upon false statement and we've been once again more than polite enough I stand by every single one of these statements. Several of us have been on this list for a number of years and can attest that John Dowdell is a professional troll. Yes, I very well know that's not at all a nice thing to say about anyone, but how long should one be patient with one who continuously, deliberately, and unashamedly vilifies, distorts, and lies? How much blatant abuse should one tolerate? How can one attempt a policy of appeasement with someone who, when corrected kindly and with technical information to back it up, will make the same erroneous statement the next day, week, month, or year as if nothing had happened? So I'm truly sorry if it bothers you, but appeasement didn't work. Being kind didn't work. Ignoring him didn't work. I'm also sorry if you think I am being aggressive but nothing bothers me more than someone deliberately pushing misinformation as JD does. -- Robin Berjon Research Scientist Expway, http://expway.com/ - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Macromedia SVGT in Flash Lie 1.1
Dean Jackson wrote: On 25 Mar 2005, at 10:09, John Dowdell wrote: Antoine Quint wrote: [snip] Dean, Yoshi is trying to view SVG-Tiny content on mobiles in Japan. Do you have any info which can help him? (I think he's focusing on the FlashLite rendering of SVG-T files just because Flash phones are so prevalent there.) Maybe Macromedia should offer its SVG-Tiny rendering tool stand-alone (without Flash Lite). I don't know how the price of Flash Lite with SVG compares to the many conformant SVG-Tiny implementations, but surely leaving out the Flash Lite component would make it cheaper. ?? Rendering SVG-Tiny XML is just an ability of the general-purpose Macromedia Flash Lite libraries. Manufacturers are buying lots of FlashLite libraries, but few are apparently choosing (or announcing) that extra SVG ability atop these libraries. (In Europe SVG was forced via 3GPP, but I haven't seen as much interest in Asia, but my knowledge is not complete.) Your suggestion, above, seems impossible to implement... like saying I like the seats in this automobile, but can we ditch the engine? Do you know of much popular work in Japan with SVG-Tiny? DoCoMo, KDDI, any other service providers which recommend such content? That still sounds like the information Yoshi needs. jd -- John Dowdell . Macromedia Developer Support . San Francisco CA USA Weblog: http://www.macromedia.com/go/blog_jd Aggregator: http://www.macromedia.com/go/weblogs Technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/ Spam killed my private email -- public record is best, thanks. - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Macromedia SVGT in Flash Lie 1.1
On 24 mars 2005, at 08:24, Yoshihiko Matsumoto wrote: Please, say where to buy Macromedia SVGTiny telephone in Japan, own model? I am very sorry for the pressuer! Just because customer deadline of development trial. My group having the pressuer with resolved stage by end to month March 2005. As I said before, there are no phones shipping with SVG-enabled Flash Lite to this day. May I ask why it is so important that you want the SVGT support provided by Macromedia? There are other vendors out there with far better market penetration than Macromedia in this area and you will probably have better luck getting your hands on an SVGT-enabled phone if it doesn't run Flash Lite with SVGT. If all you care about is a phone with SVG Tiny support, then forget about Macromedia Flash Lite. Antoine -- Antoine Quint Fuchsia Design SVG Client-side XML Consulting W3C Invited Expert (SVG and CDF) http://fuchsia-design.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Macromedia SVGT in Flash Lie 1.1
Antoine Quint wrote: John, take it from me, there is not a single phone in this world that ships with Flash Lite with SVGT parts. Hmm, so are you actually saying that, with all these companies licensing and bundling the Macromedia Flash Lite libraries in north Asia, that *none* of them find enough value to include its conformant SVG-Tiny rendering too!? That seems sort of strange. ... hmm, but hold it, you didn't cite source info, just a take it from me assurance, so I guess I'm unable to meaningfully evaluate the veracity of that claim. I did get word back from Troy Evans of the Flash Lite team, and he informed me that Macromedia is under NDA on what other companies choose to ship on their phones. If a manufacturer or carrier does not say on their site whether they want to use the SVG-T bits in their FlashLite license, then I couldn't say it for them (even if I did know). So, to get back on-topic: Yoshi, I'd still recommend contacting the service providers in Japan to see if any recommends the use of SVG-Tiny content on their network. They could suggest a model and service where you'd be able to see such content. Your local phone store would be closer to the source on this, if your main goal is to actually render SVG-T in Japan. jd -- John Dowdell . Macromedia Developer Support . San Francisco CA USA Weblog: http://www.macromedia.com/go/blog_jd Aggregator: http://www.macromedia.com/go/weblogs Technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/ Spam killed my private email -- public record is best, thanks. - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Macromedia SVGT in Flash Lie 1.1
On 25 mars 2005, at 00:09, John Dowdell wrote: ... hmm, but hold it, you didn't cite source info, just a take it from me assurance, so I guess I'm unable to meaningfully evaluate the veracity of that claim. My source is the same as yours, Troy Evans from Macromedia. Forgive me for being up to speed on Macromedia happenings around SVG. Antoine -- Antoine Quint Fuchsia Design SVG Client-side XML Consulting W3C Invited Expert (SVG and CDF) http://fuchsia-design.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Macromedia SVGT in Flash Lie 1.1
John Dowdell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Here's the list of which devices ship with which engines: http://www.macromedia.com/mobile/supported_devices/ No it's not! I have two of the phones on that list, neither of them ship with Flash Lite, a Flash Lite viewer could be installed on those phones, but they do not _ship_ Could you please actually confirm which one ship with it rather than support it, which is all the page claims, but seems somewhat different to what you claim? Cheers, Jim. - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Macromedia SVGT in Flash Lie 1.1
Jim Ley wrote: John Dowdell wrote: Here's the list of which devices ship with which engines: http://www.macromedia.com/mobile/supported_devices/ No it's not! I have two of the phones on that list, neither of them ship with Flash Lite, a Flash Lite viewer could be installed on those phones, but they do not _ship_ Could you please actually confirm which one ship with it rather than support it, which is all the page claims, but seems somewhat different to what you claim? Hmm. I've had some email appear to be truncated recently... maybe you had the same thing happen to you, and did not see what I wrote immediately following the snippet quoted above. Let me try again: But not all the Flash Lite 1.1 installations include the SVG-Tiny libraries! This is up to each licensee. Some would rather use those bytes of storage for other purposes. I don't know what the current stats are for Japan. Tomorrow I'll try to find out more. [EMAIL PROTECTED] quote and wrote: With some quick web searches I haven't turned up mentions of SVG in a couple of DoCoMo FAQs, although more time would give a better search. We want to publish SVGT fomat worldwide, not other fomat... Thank-you for worldwide web search in my requirement. So... do you feel comfortable checking the DoCoMo documentation more thoroughly yourself? (I probably won't have time to do a thorough search across all carriers and manufacturers today, and in any event wouldn't be sure what types of devices your intended audience currently uses.) I know who licensed the Macromedia Flash Lite 1.1 libraries, but haven't tracked which ones of these have included the extra SVG-rendering instructions in their phones. If I can get off email early today I might be able to learn more. jd -- John Dowdell . Macromedia Developer Support . San Francisco CA USA Weblog: http://www.macromedia.com/go/blog_jd Aggregator: http://www.macromedia.com/go/weblogs Technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/ Spam killed my private email -- public record is best, thanks. - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Macromedia SVGT in Flash Lie 1.1
John Dowdell wrote: Jim Ley wrote: John Dowdell wrote: Here's the list of which devices ship with which engines: No it's not! I have two of the phones on that list, neither of them ship with Flash Lite, a Flash Lite viewer could be installed on those phones, but they do not _ship_ Hmm. I've had some email appear to be truncated recently... maybe you had the same thing happen to you, and did not see what I wrote immediately following the snippet quoted above. Let me try again: There's no need for truncation to explain the exchange. You point to a list of phones that according to you supposedly ship with Flash Lite, and some of them don't. Are you saying Flash Lite was meant to be there but somehow got trunctated? [EMAIL PROTECTED] quote and wrote: We want to publish SVGT fomat worldwide, not other fomat... Thank-you for worldwide web search in my requirement. I know who licensed the Macromedia Flash Lite 1.1 libraries, but haven't tracked which ones of these have included the extra SVG-rendering instructions in their phones. If I can get off email early today I might be able to learn more. Unless you have some breaking news the result is simple: none of the (relatively few) licensees of Flash Lite 1.1 have so far announced SVG support. Which leaves a lot of us content developers asking why Macromedia isn't joining the bandwagon at last and giving us the cool stuff it was giving us ten years ago but has been tumbling down from since. Heck there's money for you guys to make, have you lost all ability to adapt? That would be sad... :( -- Robin Berjon Research Scientist Expway, http://expway.com/ - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Macromedia SVGT in Flash Lie 1.1
Robin Berjon wrote: There's no need for truncation to explain the exchange. You point to a list of phones that according to you supposedly ship with Flash Lite, and some of them don't. Are you saying Flash Lite was meant to be there but somehow got trunctated? Sorry, although I read it twice, I misread it as Hey, there's no SVG-T on this phone! rather than Hey, there's no FlashLite on this phone! For Can there exist phones on that Flash Lite list which don't include Flash Lite? then there certainly can -- I don't think all those phones started their shipping *after* Flash Lite 1.1 was purchased for them, for instance. But this is the list of those who have paid to include it now: http://www.macromedia.com/mobile/supported_devices/ jd -- John Dowdell . Macromedia Developer Support . San Francisco CA USA Weblog: http://www.macromedia.com/go/blog_jd Aggregator: http://www.macromedia.com/go/weblogs Technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/ Spam killed my private email -- public record is best, thanks. - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Macromedia SVGT in Flash Lie 1.1
John Dowdell wrote: For Can there exist phones on that Flash Lite list which don't include Flash Lite? then there certainly can -- I don't think all those phones started their shipping *after* Flash Lite 1.1 was purchased for them, for instance. But this is the list of those who have paid to include it now: http://www.macromedia.com/mobile/supported_devices/ Ok, but that's not very useful for those of us trying to deliver content to mobile phones. With the list found at http://svg.org/special/svg_phones/ I know I can deliver SVG and have it work well (as is the case with most large carriers today) is there a list of devices that are *guaranteed* (as opposed to may have started at some point) to support SWF? And you haven't answered my question, should we give up all hope that Macromedia is going to catch up and once again become the cool more-than-up-to-date company that it was several years ago or have you guys entirely given up on the mobile Web? As a former Macromedia user I wish I could get back to using your products, but alas you seem to stubbornly refuse industry standards. -- Robin Berjon Research Scientist Expway, http://expway.com/ - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Macromedia SVGT in Flash Lie 1.1
On 23 mars 2005, at 21:42, John Dowdell wrote: Jim Ley wrote: John Dowdell wrote: Here's the list of which devices ship with which engines: http://www.macromedia.com/mobile/supported_devices/ No it's not! I have two of the phones on that list, neither of them ship with Flash Lite, a Flash Lite viewer could be installed on those phones, but they do not _ship_ Could you please actually confirm which one ship with it rather than support it, which is all the page claims, but seems somewhat different to what you claim? Hmm. I've had some email appear to be truncated recently... maybe you had the same thing happen to you, and did not see what I wrote immediately following the snippet quoted above. Let me try again: Nothing got truncated, you just didn't understand what Jim wrote. Jim just said that your page was wrong and that some of the devices listed DO NOT ship with ANY version of Flash Lite at all. I know who licensed the Macromedia Flash Lite 1.1 libraries, but haven't tracked which ones of these have included the extra SVG-rendering instructions in their phones. If I can get off email early today I might be able to learn more. Simple answer again, there are absolutely NO licensee of the SVG parts of the Flash Lite player. Maybe Macromedia has some deals, but the general public has never been informed of such deals. Antoine -- Antoine Quint Fuchsia Design SVG Client-side XML Consulting W3C Invited Expert (SVG and CDF) http://fuchsia-design.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
