Re: [SWCollect] Time to blend topics
I still do that now and then to be honest. In Portugal many times we have to wait months or even years to get a game on the shelves. Most recent example is Prince of Qin, one of the best RPGs of 2002, started being sold in Portugal last month, and at full retail price no less! So I honestly don't think it's a crime to get a game from the net, test it, and if it's bad, bin it. If it's good, buy it. -- Pedro R. Quaresma Salvador Caetano IMVT Div. Sistemas de Informação / Systems and Information Division Administração e Desenvolvimento Lotus Notes / Lotus Notes Administration and Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] // +351 22 7867000 (ext. 3492) Toyota Prius '01, Aqua Ice Opalescent, 40K km., Esperanza 'People don't quit playing because they grow old. They grow old because they quit playing.' - Oliver Wendell Holmes Para: swcollect [EMAIL PROTECTED] A/C: Ref: cc: (bcc: Pedro Quaresma/SCAETANO) Assunto: Re: [SWCollect] Time to blend topics Edward Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] 09-06-2004 21:33 Solicita-se resposta a swcollect On Jun 9, 2004, at 3:20 PM, Stephane Racle wrote: Following up on this thread - the software industry often mentions billions in losses due to piracy. But is that based upon an estimate of how many illegal copies of software packages are in use, or is it based on an estimate of how many people use copied products but would actually have paid for them had they not been able to get an illegal copy? There's a big difference between the two, and I suspect many people who pirate software would not bother purchasing it anyways. Not that I'm saying one is better than the other, but I am curious about the numbers being wielded around by the software industry. They go with the numbers that give the biggest loss to piracy (estimate of illegal copies in use). On a personal level, I've met few people that would actually copy something illegally and then pay for a legit copy when it was available. YMMV -- Edward Franks -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ ToyotaShopping - A sua Loja Toyota Online http://www.toyota.pt
Re: [SWCollect] Best copy protection?
Shadow of the Comet by Infogrames (back from the days when Infogrames was likeable -- ah that would start a whole new discussion! Anyone else following the end of Interplay?). It had a Caleidoscope-thingie in which you'd had to look to get the codes. If you tried looking without the Caleidoscope-lenses (or perhaps with a proper lens of some other type) the code drawings were too small to distinguish from each other. Lucasarts's Monkey Island's dial-a-pirate was fun too :) but easy copiable. Delphine's Operation Stealth had a copy protection similar to Future Wars. No wonder, they were made by the same company and had the same engine iirc. As far as difficulty goes, from what I've heard, the still uncrackable Starforce 3 (Beyond Divinity is an example) is still the worst. -- Pedro R. Quaresma Salvador Caetano IMVT Div. Sistemas de Informação / Systems and Information Division Administração e Desenvolvimento Lotus Notes / Lotus Notes Administration and Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] // +351 22 7867000 (ext. 3492) Toyota Prius '01, Aqua Ice Opalescent, 40K km., Esperanza 'People don't quit playing because they grow old. They grow old because they quit playing.' - Oliver Wendell Holmes Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A/C: Ref: cc: (bcc: Pedro Quaresma/SCAETANO) Assunto: [SWCollect] Best copy protection? Jim Leonard [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12-06-2004 03:59 Solicita-se resposta a swcollect I used to think that the best copy-protection was Rocket Ranger -- the codewheel was an integral part of moving around. Then a fellow MobyGames volunteer wrote me this: The best copy protection ever would be the game Murder In Venice (Amiga). The game comes with over 40 clues - including ticket stubs, paper clips, pictures, even a film roll (that you have to break open to find a clue inside!!). I agree, that's really cool. Anyone else have some good copy-protection schemes that they remember as being cool or clever? Here's a few more I can think of: - Future Wars. Copy protection showed a paint-by-numbers (outline) picture and asked you what color the section that was currently flashing was. How could you tell? The picture was in full color on the back cover of the manual. :-) - Star Control. Codewheel was just plain funny. Anyone else have fond memories? -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.oldskool.org/ Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ ToyotaShopping - A sua Loja Toyota Online http://www.toyota.pt
Re: [SWCollect] Best copy protection?
Another Microprose game with similar copy protection was Pirates! Gold I believe. You'd have to recognize a Pirate banner. On railroad tycoon you had to recognize a specific train wagon. Trying to remember what the copy protection was on Covert Action but memory is failing me...? -- Pedro R. Quaresma Salvador Caetano IMVT Div. Sistemas de Informação / Systems and Information Division Administração e Desenvolvimento Lotus Notes / Lotus Notes Administration and Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] // +351 22 7867000 (ext. 3492) Toyota Prius '01, Aqua Ice Opalescent, 40K km., Esperanza 'People don't quit playing because they grow old. They grow old because they quit playing.' - Oliver Wendell Holmes Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A/C: Ref: cc: (bcc: Pedro Quaresma/SCAETANO) Assunto: Re: [SWCollect] Best copy protection? Dan Chisarick [EMAIL PROTECTED] 13-06-2004 02:44 Solicita-se resposta a swcollect Back then I had a friend who worked for a newspaper. He was in charge of a color separator (it sounded impressive then) so they could print color ads in multiple passes. It made the dark red and black sheet black and white. It was excessive but it was fun to have such an overkill solution. Jim: I got Tie Fighter and Perfect General from EBX (yet another division of EB, how many do they need)? I kinda liked Microprose's copy protection. Their war games had you identify enemy vehicles. After a while of playing the game, you didn't need to refer to the manual. Came in handy knowing just what it was shooting at you, too. Some of them let you play anyway if you failed the doc check, but only at the beginner level. Nice incentive to buy the game if you just cracked the disk check. On Jun 12, 2004, at 6:03 PM, Freddie Bingham wrote: I had no problem duplicating the codes on the copy machine at the drugstore near my house. The second release of Maniac Mansion also came with that type of protection. http://lucasarts.vintagegaming.org/index.php?gameid=2r=2 -freddie Lucasarts Museum - http://lucasarts.vintagegaming.org -Original Message- From: Jim Leonard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 2:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Best copy protection? Marco Thorek wrote: IIRC the game came with five-symbol codes printed in black on really dark brown paper. I was lucky enough to have a BW hand scanner (remember those?) that used a red scanning beam. A bit of adjustment to the contrast, and voila -- I could reproduce those like they were black on white sheets of paper. :-) -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.oldskool.org/ Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ ToyotaShopping - A sua Loja Toyota Online http://www.toyota.pt
[SWCollect] Game Music
I just found the following site: http://www.mirsoft.info/ This place is fantastic -- if a game has MIDI or MOD music, it has probably been ripped and put here. They also have ripping guides if you have a game they don't have. For all other games that use custom formats or hardware, let me know -- I have a Roland SCC1, MT-32, Adlib, CMS, IBM Music Feature, Gravis Ultrasound, Adlib Gold, and other exotic hardware :-) -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Best copy protection?
Pedro Quaresma wrote: Shadow of the Comet by Infogrames (back from the days when Infogrames was likeable -- ah that would start a whole new discussion! Anyone else following the end of Interplay?). I heard Interplay's offices were shut down for a few days because they couldn't come up with worker's comp insurance. :-( I sincerely hope Brian Fargo will be able to create a new startup... As far as difficulty goes, from what I've heard, the still uncrackable Starforce 3 (Beyond Divinity is an example) is still the worst. Nothing is uncrackable. Starforce is one of the best types of protection, though -- it directly accesses IDE CDROM drives without going through ANY system calls. (Dunzhin for IBM PC (Warriors of Ras) was one of the new early PC releases to do this and it took a colleage of mine a full month to crack it.) Starforce is also clever enough to figure out if it is running from an emulated drive such as those provided by Daemon Tools or Alcohol 120%. Still, as clever as Starforce 3 is, I've seen worse. In fact, I was wondering when better protection was going to come along (copy-protection became a bit of a joke once Windows and CDROMs rolled around -- Starforce 3 is the only thing that actually provides a challenge nowadays). -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Best copy protection?
Jim Leonard wrote: Still, as clever as Starforce 3 is, I've seen worse. In fact, I was wondering when better protection was going to come along (copy-protection became a bit of a joke once Windows and CDROMs rolled around -- Starforce 3 is the only thing that actually provides a challenge nowadays). In fact, to respond to my own post, I just found that Starforce has two easily-found code sections, .brick and .sforce, and the ep (entry point) is 6969h -- kind-of stands out, eh? So this will be easy to crack on a per-game basis. Nothing is uncrackable. :-) Whatever one man can create, another can destroy. -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Best copy protection?
On Jun 14, 2004, at 2:57 PM, Jim Leonard wrote: Pedro Quaresma wrote: Shadow of the Comet by Infogrames (back from the days when Infogrames was likeable -- ah that would start a whole new discussion! Anyone else following the end of Interplay?). I heard Interplay's offices were shut down for a few days because they couldn't come up with worker's comp insurance. :-( I sincerely hope Brian Fargo will be able to create a new startup... He was already gone: http://www.inxile-entertainment.com/ -- Edward Franks -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Best copy protection?
Edward Franks wrote: He was already gone: http://www.inxile-entertainment.com/ I know, sorry if that wasn't clear. I am hoping he will do something decent with the Bard's Tale project... Him remaking Bard's Tale, and Sid Meier remaking Pirates! are two projects I'm eagerly anticipating. Anyone else know of original designers or teams remaking older games? -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
[SWCollect] Huge Japanese console auction
A friend sent me this link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemcategory=62054item=8111352149 Stuart -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Best copy protection?
You had to identify mugshots I believe. I'm surprised I remember because I only saw the screen once :)
Covert Action and Sword of the Samurai are my top two favorite of all time Microprose games. Close second is M-1 Tank Platoon, F-19/F-117A, Pirates! and Ancient Art of War in the Skies. There are tons others, but those are the ones that come screaming to mind the easiest. Of course, these were all played on a PC ('cept Pirates for the IIgs). Ok and Darklands was really good, too. Sigh.
On Jun 14, 2004, at 9:10 AM, Pedro Quaresma wrote:
Another Microprose game with similar copy protection was Pirates! Gold I believe. You'd have to recognize a Pirate banner.
On railroad tycoon you had to recognize a specific train wagon.
Trying to remember what the copy protection was on Covert Action but memory is failing me...?
--
Pedro R. Quaresma
Salvador Caetano IMVT
Div. Sistemas de Informação / Systems and Information Division
Administração e Desenvolvimento Lotus Notes /
Lotus Notes Administration and Development
[EMAIL PROTECTED] // +351 22 7867000 (ext. 3492)
Toyota Prius '01, Aqua Ice Opalescent, 40K km., Esperanza
'People don't quit playing because they grow old. They grow old because they quit playing.' - Oliver Wendell Holmes
x-tad-smaller /x-tad-smallerx-tad-smallerPara: [EMAIL PROTECTED]/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smallerA/C: /x-tad-smallerx-tad-smallerRef: /x-tad-smallerx-tad-smallercc: (bcc: Pedro Quaresma/SCAETANO)/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smallerAssunto: Re: [SWCollect] Best copy protection?/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smallerDan Chisarick [EMAIL PROTECTED]>/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smaller13-06-2004 02:44/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smallerSolicita-se resposta a swcollect/x-tad-smallerBack then I had a friend who worked for a newspaper. He was in charge
of a color separator (it sounded impressive then) so they could print
color ads in multiple passes. It made the dark red and black sheet
black and white. It was excessive but it was fun to have such an
overkill solution.
Jim: I got Tie Fighter and Perfect General from EBX (yet another
division of EB, how many do they need)?
I kinda liked Microprose's copy protection. Their war games had you
identify enemy vehicles. After a while of playing the game, you didn't
need to refer to the manual. Came in handy knowing just what it was
shooting at you, too. Some of them let you play anyway if you failed
the doc check, but only at the beginner level. Nice incentive to buy
the game if you just cracked the disk check.
On Jun 12, 2004, at 6:03 PM, Freddie Bingham wrote:
> I had no problem duplicating the codes on the copy machine at the
> drugstore
> near my house. The second release of Maniac Mansion also came with
> that
> type of protection.
>
> http://lucasarts.vintagegaming.org/index.php?gameid=2r=2
>
> -freddie
>
> Lucasarts Museum - http://lucasarts.vintagegaming.org
>
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Jim Leonard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 2:24 PM
>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Best copy protection?
>>
>> Marco Thorek wrote:
>>
>>> IIRC the game came with five-symbol codes printed in black
>> on really
>>> dark brown paper.
>>
>> I was lucky enough to have a BW hand scanner (remember
>> those?) that used a red scanning beam. A bit of adjustment
>> to the contrast, and voila -- I could reproduce those like
>> they were black on white sheets of paper. :-)
>> --
>> Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
>> http://www.oldskool.org/
>> Want to help an ambitious games project?
>> http://www.mobygames.com/
>> Or check out some trippy MindCandy at
>> http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
>>
>> --
>> This message was sent to you because you are currently
>> subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe,
>> send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of
>> 'unsubscribe swcollect'
>> Archives are available at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
> the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
> Archives are available at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
>
--
This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
ToyotaShopping - A sua Loja Toyota Online
http://www.toyota.pt
[SWCollect] Vintage Computer Gaming Conference (VCGC)
Hey gang, As you might recall, a few of us were talking back in Jan/Feb this year about putting together a software collector's expo (VCGC, formerly SCExpo) featuring classic authors as guest speakers, and vendors who specifically deal in the vintage games we collect. But we've run into a couple of snags. The first is contacting authors to invite them. We have a professional graphic designer on board who's designed some really nice print invitations, and we'd like to mail them to the authors' physical addresses instead of just an e-mail. Cuz that'd be neater. We had someone on this list who initially expressed an interest in providing us with addresses, but I'm told he hasn't yet done so. At this point we really need to get a guest list nailed down soon so we can start PR for the show, so if anyone has physical (not just e-mail) contact info for any of these people, please let us know: Mike Abbot Joel Billings Marc Blank Chris Crawford John Freeman Richard Garriott Andrew Greenberg Tom Hall Dave Lebling Jordan Mechner Steve Meretzky Alan Pavlish Stuart Smith Anne Westfall Ken and Roberta Williams Robert Woodhead Don Woods Don Worth Before you ask, no, we're not planning to invite everyone above, just a few out of the ones we're able to contact. (We do have a preferred-guest list but I'll refrain from posting it here to avoid bad feelings about favoritism.) Just a reminder, please e-mail privately if you have someone's address... please don't post it here in public. Never know who may be lurking, and I'm sure our favorite authors don't want to be stalked. Please cc: myself, Howard Feldman, and Hugh Falk so we all get the same information. If you know your author would prefer not to have his address revealed to anyone else, please let us know that and we'll use you as a go-between for getting the invite to them. Second concern is cost. Right now with our current budget the admission price we're looking at (balanced between keeping it halfway affordable and making enough profit to be worthwhile) is $49.95 for a weekend pass. That's in addition to the normal travel expenses, airfare and hotel room. I'd appreciate any comments on that: Is it more than you'd want to pay for an event like this? Enough that it would discourage you from attenting? Do you have family members who would tag along if we offerred a family package price instead of making everyone pay individually? And, ignoring price for a moment, would you actually be interested in coming to this show? The other thing we were hoping to do is recruit some venture capital. It looks like this is going to cost us several thousand dollars up front (for showroom rental, possibly hotel bookings, etc) and spreading it out means it's less painful on everyone. In return for your generosity you'd be sharing in the profits from the show (if any) based on your level of contribution. The full budget details will be provided to people who are serious about investing. -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Best copy protection?
Pedro Quaresma schrieb: Shadow of the Comet by Infogrames (back from the days when Infogrames was likeable -- ah that would start a whole new discussion! Anyone else following the end of Interplay?). Certainly. It is sad to see the company go that way. Marco -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Best copy protection?
Jim Leonard schrieb: know, sorry if that wasn't clear. I am hoping he will do something decent with the Bard's Tale project... Him remaking Bard's Tale, and Sid Meier remaking Pirates! are two projects I'm eagerly anticipating. It is good to see that the people originally behind those great names do something with them, but they certainly don't come up with anything new that way. Oh well, Molyneux is still quite sucessful with selling us the same concept for the last 15 years, so why not them ;-) Marco -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Best copy protection?
Pedro Quaresma schrieb: Another Microprose game with similar copy protection was Pirates! Gold I believe. You'd have to recognize a Pirate banner. That reminds me of the original Pirates! copy protection: You had to look up at what port the gold fleet was in a certain month. Marco -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Best copy protection?
Jim Leonard schrieb: I was lucky enough to have a BW hand scanner (remember those?) that used a red scanning beam. A bit of adjustment to the contrast, and voila -- I could reproduce those like they were black on white sheets of paper. :-) At that time I had only heard of scanners :-) BTW, another drive-the-legitimate-buyer-out-of-his-mind copy protection: Type the seventh word in the third paragraph on page 22. You never knew if they counted chapter titles, quotations, or whatever else was there along regular text, or not. Marco -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Time to blend topics
Edward Franks schrieb: What I find an interesting observation of human nature in action is the fact so many folks that download stuff illegally turn the whole business into some noble moral imperative. But that's a whole 'nother topic. Humans tend to legitimize their actions, so that their inner morality is to them in balance with the collective morality. Marco -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Time to blend topics
Pedro Quaresma schrieb: I still do that now and then to be honest. In Portugal many times we have to wait months or even years to get a game on the shelves. Most recent example is Prince of Qin, one of the best RPGs of 2002, started being sold in Portugal last month, and at full retail price no less! So I honestly don't think it's a crime to get a game from the net, test it, and if it's bad, bin it. If it's good, buy it. Shouldn't you be at the Euro 2004 anyway? ;-) Marco -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
