Re: [OSM-talk] Beyond Zoom 18 - (Some scratchspacing ideas concerning siteplans)

[Richard Fairhurst]

Tom Hughes wrote:

> In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>   Sfan00 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> What exists are the start of some example floorplans for :
>> * A supermarket
>> * A Cinema seating arrangment
>> * A simple  house...
>>
>> I would welcome some thoughts on what to expand...
>
> Why don't we just stick to mapping sensible things before we start
> worrying about mapping the insides of peoples houses!

Agreed.

Everything we add to the map has a maintenance burden. It needs to be  
periodically revisited (through the magic of collaborative yadda  
yadda) and updated when things change. Expecting this to happen for  
internal floor plans is way beyond the capacity of our community at  
any foreseeable point.

In a few years - well, maybe. But right now there's a whole world  
still to be mapped without trying to reinvent the project every five  
minutes.

cheers
Richard

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Re: [OSM-talk] Beyond Zoom 18 - (Some scratchspacing ideas concerning siteplans)

[Iván Sánchez Ortega]

El Martes, 22 de Abril de 2008, Tom Hughes escribió:
[...]
> This has been discussed inumerable times before and the consensus has
> been very clear that we should not use any part of the globe, no matter
> how remote, as some sort of test area or scratchpad.

If anybody wants to experiment, instructions on how to set up a rails server 
are on SVN and on the wiki, anyway. I'm with Tom here, on not polluting the 
main OSM database.

> Why don't we just stick to mapping sensible things before we start
> worrying about mapping the insides of peoples houses!

Alas, we have lots of work ahead of us - kilometers and kilometers of roads to 
be mapped.

One point of interest, though, would be marking the foot tunnels on complex 
railway/subway stations. The impact on route planners might be worth the 
research.

-- 
--
Iván Sánchez Ortega <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Why one contradicts. One often contradicts an opinion when it is really only 
the way in which it has been presented that is unsympathetic.
  --  Friedrich Nietzsche [1844 - 1900]


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Re: [OSM-talk] Beyond Zoom 18 - (Some scratchspacing ideas concerning siteplans)

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

> What exists are the start of some example floorplans for :
> * A supermarket
> * A Cinema seating arrangment
> * A simple  house...
> 
> I would welcome some thoughts on what to expand...

Micromapping is surely an interesting area that we'll have to spend
some thought on; if and how we want it in our data, how this can work
with generalisation (zooming out) and so on.

However I have a feeling that our current approach of mapping "what's
there" will fail miserably when we try to create schematics of the
insides of railway stations or cinemas. Such floor plans are usually
not even remotely drawn to scale, often for good reasons. But our way
of doing things does not leave room for *not* drawing something to
scale. So maybe we just end up with links to some other system
("OpenFloorPlans")...?

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED]  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"


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Re: [OSM-talk] Beyond Zoom 18 - (Some scratchspacing ideas concerning siteplans)

[Tom Hughes]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  Sfan00 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> In connection with something that was raised in #osm, I did some
> scratchpading here:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=74.28624&lon=1.138034&zoom=18
> 
> (NOTE : I made sure that this wasn't actually anywhere important... it
> appeared to be an area of ocean being in the middle of the Atlantic on OSM)

Everywhere is important. If it's an ocean it should look like an ocean.

This has been discussed inumerable times before and the consensus has
been very clear that we should not use any part of the globe, no matter
how remote, as some sort of test area or scratchpad.

> I was wondering what peoples thoughts were.
> (these sketchs are NOT accurate, to scale - they are just some thoughts)
> 
> What exists are the start of some example floorplans for :
> * A supermarket
> * A Cinema seating arrangment
> * A simple  house...
> 
> I would welcome some thoughts on what to expand...

Why don't we just stick to mapping sensible things before we start
worrying about mapping the insides of peoples houses!

> On a related note, I would like to make a strong request for thier to be
> 'scratch' tiles in the OSM
> system, so that experimental ideas can be trialled without affecting the
> main map,database etc...

Our database covers the globe - where exactly do you propose we put
this scratch area? Do you propose to extend the normal spherical
coordinate system to have more than 360 degrees along some axis?

Tiles do not exist as an entity in the database that we can magically
allow you to write to - they are just an artefact of cutting the globe
(or rather a projection of the globe) into pieces for rendering.

Tom

-- 
Tom Hughes ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
http://www.compton.nu/

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[OSM-talk] Beyond Zoom 18 - (Some scratchspacing ideas concerning siteplans)

[Sfan00]

Hi,

In connection with something that was raised in #osm, I did some 
scratchpading here:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=74.28624&lon=1.138034&zoom=18

(NOTE : I made sure that this wasn't actually anywhere important... it 
appeared to be an area of ocean being in the middle of the Atlantic on OSM)

I was wondering what peoples thoughts were.
(these sketchs are NOT accurate, to scale - they are just some thoughts)

What exists are the start of some example floorplans for :
* A supermarket
* A Cinema seating arrangment
* A simple  house...

I would welcome some thoughts on what to expand...

On a related note, I would like to make a strong request for thier to be 
'scratch' tiles in the OSM
system, so that experimental ideas can be trialled without affecting the 
main map,database etc...















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Re: [OSM-talk] SVG tiles

[Damocov]

Tom Hughes Wrote:

 >Sure. I'll just look in the cupboard marked "spare servers"

Please.. Please.. tell me where that cupboard is I've been searching for 
it at home and work for months now ;)

Damian Fell
(Damocov)

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on "factory" Macs

[Daniel Schmidt]

Sorry for my previous, possibly confusing post. I meant so send this  
one...



> * Slippy Map (heard rumours that it runs sub-optimal on Safari,
> always loading tiles for all layers instead of current only?)

I've been using the slippy map with Safari for several months and  
never had an issue.

>
> * JOSM (especially concerned about usability with 1 button mouse)

Newer Macs come with the Mighty Mouse which has 4 buttons and a scroll  
button. But you should also be able to use any other USB mouse.

> * Potlatch

Safari comes with a Flash plug-in and therefore has no problems  
running Potlatch.


If you want, I can come to Karlsruhe and do some Mac consulting  
(sometime after finishing my university degree next week) ;-)


Greets,

Daniel



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Re: [OSM-talk] Highway tagging in the USA

[Tom Hughes]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  "Peter Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Possibly I am pushing a non-issue but personally I find the red overpowering
> in a grid system and I have no other explanation as to why so many major
> roads are getting tagged as tertiary and secondary.

Are you sure these are manually tagged and not just bad TIGER data?

Tom

-- 
Tom Hughes ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
http://www.compton.nu/

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Re: [OSM-talk] [KA-Geo] Hausnummern in OpenStreetMap: "Karlsruher Schema"

[Daniel Schmidt]

Hallo,

> (Die Suedstadt konnte man schon mal mit Hausnummern bewundern,
> aber mittlerweile hat jemand anders, der den neuen Stil noch nicht  
> hat,
> das Tile wieder ueberschrieben...)

Jetzt gerade gehts:

http://informationfreeway.org/?lat=49.00369896795286&lon=8.406686792421542&zoom=17&layers=B000F000F

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED]  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"


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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on "factory" Macs

[Martijn van Exel]

Op 21 apr 2008, om 22:46 heeft Frederik Ramm het volgende geschreven:

> Hi,

Hi Frederik,
>
>
>   for an upcoming OSM booth we have the offer of a local Apple dealer
> to supply us with all the hardware we want (including 30"+ displays
> and all). These would, however, be out-of-the-box Macs with those
> funny keyboards and those mice without buttons you know... and they
> wouldn't even let us pop an Ubuntu CD in and install a proper OS ;-)

That's very nice.
>
>
> My question to the Mac users out there: Will those Macs be suitable
> for demonstrating all important aspects of OSM, i.e.
>
> * Slippy Map (heard rumours that it runs sub-optimal on Safari,
>  always loading tiles for all layers instead of current only?)

I just compared FF2 and Safari 3.1.1 using 
http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.3977&lon=4.8929&zoom=12&layers=B0FT
FF2 does 195 requests, Safari 174.
Safari actually performs better. I did not do extensive testing, but  
with a clean cache Safari loads the above page about a second and a  
half faster than FF2.


>
> * JOSM (especially concerned about usability with 1 button mouse)

That is indeed horrible. Recent Macs are supplied with a two-button  
mouse though. Well - it's actually still one physical surface, but  
left and right clicks are detected. I would recommend connecting any  
regular mouse though, because the scroll 'wheel' (it's actually a  
little ball) is nasty.

>
> * Potlatch

It...Works. Expect hiccups now and then. Flash is slower on Macs than  
on Windows. Even recent Macs suffer. I have a MacBook Pro 2.16GHz  
Intel Core Duo and I regularly have to wait 1sec+ for Potlatch to  
react to user input after it stalls.

>
> * ...?

You could of course install Windows on them ;) Or Ubuntu / Debian /  
Whatever in a VM. I run Windows, Ubuntu and Mac OSX all at the same  
time with no problems at all.
>
>
> Or will I have to install countless helpers, utilities and control
> panels?

No. Only thing I'd recommend is putting this:

#!/bin/bash
java -jar -Xmx256M -XX:MaxPermSize=256M /Applications/josm-latest.jar

in ~/Library/Scripts/JOSM.sh (chmod 0755) and enabling the script menu  
through the AppleScript Utility (included in Leopard) for easy access  
to JOSM.
>
>
> I would like to accept the offer but if I end up endlessly tuning
> those machines to act like normal computers then I'd rather opt for
> run-down but working Linux boxes from the community instead of the
> shiny Macs.


Is there no-one with hands-on Mac experience that can lend a hand? You  
wouldn't want to turn down those 30" screens :)

Good luck!

-- 
martijn van exel -+- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -+- http://www.schaaltreinen.nl/


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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on "factory" Macs

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

> > * JOSM (especially concerned about usability with 1 button mouse)
> 
> This is likely your sticking point. The inability to drag the map is a
> real killer on JOSM, and I'm not aware of any decent ways of working
> around it within the java on mac. (I do a *lot* of zooming in and out,
> and use of the ctrl-arrows, whenever I need JOSM without an eexternal
> mouse.) 

How would a "native" Mac application deal with wanting to let the
user drag the map and at the same time wanting to let him draw a
selection rectangle? Would they have one drag mode and one select mode
then, or a modifier key for one of the two actions? 

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED]  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"


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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on "factory" Macs

[Raphaël Jacquot]

Christopher Schmidt wrote:

>> * JOSM (especially concerned about usability with 1 button mouse)
> 
> This is likely your sticking point. The inability to drag the map is a
> real killer on JOSM, and I'm not aware of any decent ways of working
> around it within the java on mac. (I do a *lot* of zooming in and out,
> and use of the ctrl-arrows, whenever I need JOSM without an eexternal
> mouse.) 

you can use a real mouse with a normal number of buttons...



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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on "factory" Macs

[Chris Jones]

On 21 Apr 2008, at 21:46, Frederik Ramm wrote:

> My question to the Mac users out there: Will those Macs be suitable
> for demonstrating all important aspects of OSM, i.e.
>
> * Slippy Map (heard rumours that it runs sub-optimal on Safari,
>   always loading tiles for all layers instead of current only?)

The slippy map works fine here...

> * JOSM (especially concerned about usability with 1 button mouse)

I've used JOSM with a single button mouse for quite a while, for  
anything you need right click for ctrl+click is the equivalent to  
right click.

> * Potlatch

Potlatch is as useable as on any other platform.

There is very little that wont work, just remember ctrl+click = right  
click

--
Chris Jones, SUCS Admin
http://sucs.org



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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on "factory" Macs

[Dermot McNally]

On 21/04/2008, Frederik Ramm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  My question to the Mac users out there: Will those Macs be suitable
>  for demonstrating all important aspects of OSM, i.e.

Yes, IMHO, but see below:

>  * Slippy Map (heard rumours that it runs sub-optimal on Safari,
>   always loading tiles for all layers instead of current only?)

I've sometimes had the sense, irrespective of browser, that more loads
than is really needed, but I mostly use Safari and have no real issue
with it. Do run the software updates to pull in latest Safari with
much improved rendering speed and standards compliance. You can also
install Firefox for safety - V3 has native widgets.

>  * JOSM (especially concerned about usability with 1 button mouse)

Works fine except for requirement to use a doctored YWMS plugin (if
you want to run it). Don't use the 1-button mouse. If the thing comes
with a Mighty Mouse (tiny trackball where the wheel should be) just go
into System Preferences-Mouse and map the right mouse side as button 2
and the trackball click as button 3.

Or just connect any USB mouse of your choosing.

You might want search the list archives for references to the JOSM Mac
Application "Package". That will give you a nice icon in the dock and
will allocate a nicer amount of RAM.


>  * Potlatch

Fine for me. Something that used to happen was the occasional keyboard
freeze, which could be unwedged by switching to another app and back
again.

>  * ...?

Well, you can get a shell on it if you want to, but I imagine you
won't want to install [EMAIL PROTECTED] or suchlike (it's possible, but tricky 
first
time, a lot of prerequisites). sudo su if you want root.

>  Or will I have to install countless helpers, utilities and control
>  panels?

Apple menu-software update and install everything in sight, but
especially Safari.

>  I would like to accept the offer but if I end up endlessly tuning
>  those machines to act like normal computers then I'd rather opt for
>  run-down but working Linux boxes from the community instead of the
>  shiny Macs.

Use the Macs. They look the part and should do what you want.

Dermot

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on "factory" Macs

[Christopher Schmidt]

On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 10:46:53PM +0200, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> My question to the Mac users out there: Will those Macs be suitable
> for demonstrating all important aspects of OSM, i.e.
> 
> * Slippy Map (heard rumours that it runs sub-optimal on Safari, 
>   always loading tiles for all layers instead of current only?)

I've heard this rumour as well, but use Safari as my primary browser and
have never had this issue. Safari 3.1 is 2x faster than FF3 and 10x
faster than FF2 at DOM manipulation, so in general, the slippy map will
be much faster on latest Safari than any other browser on mac.

> * JOSM (especially concerned about usability with 1 button mouse)

This is likely your sticking point. The inability to drag the map is a
real killer on JOSM, and I'm not aware of any decent ways of working
around it within the java on mac. (I do a *lot* of zooming in and out,
and use of the ctrl-arrows, whenever I need JOSM without an eexternal
mouse.) 

> * Potlatch

Potlatch works great, and is primarily developed on an apple machine.

> * ...?

The PDFs from the export tab all work beautifully in Apple's
'Preview.app'.

> Or will I have to install countless helpers, utilities and control
> panels?

Fix JOSM to drag with a single button mouse, and you should be golden.
:)

Regards,
-- 
Christopher Schmidt
MetaCarta

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[OSM-talk] OSM on "factory" Macs

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

   for an upcoming OSM booth we have the offer of a local Apple dealer
to supply us with all the hardware we want (including 30"+ displays
and all). These would, however, be out-of-the-box Macs with those
funny keyboards and those mice without buttons you know... and they
wouldn't even let us pop an Ubuntu CD in and install a proper OS ;-)

My question to the Mac users out there: Will those Macs be suitable
for demonstrating all important aspects of OSM, i.e.

* Slippy Map (heard rumours that it runs sub-optimal on Safari, 
  always loading tiles for all layers instead of current only?)
* JOSM (especially concerned about usability with 1 button mouse)
* Potlatch
* ...?

Or will I have to install countless helpers, utilities and control
panels?

I would like to accept the offer but if I end up endlessly tuning
those machines to act like normal computers then I'd rather opt for
run-down but working Linux boxes from the community instead of the
shiny Macs.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED]  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"


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Re: [OSM-talk] Highway tagging in the USA

[Peter Miller]

Possibly I am pushing a non-issue but personally I find the red overpowering
in a grid system and I have no other explanation as to why so many major
roads are getting tagged as tertiary and secondary.

Autually, I guess another explanation might be because many of the US
highways were tagged as secondary by default on import (with motorway-link
ramps).

Incidentally would it be possibly to design a 'tiger-bot' that went looking
for roads tagged as secondary, are 'separated' and had not been touched
since initial import and retagged them automatically as motorway? This would
of course need consensus but might save a lot of work, but I think the only
roads that fit this condition are really motorways.



Thanks,



Peter


> -Original Message-
> From: David Earl [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 21 April 2008 20:21
> To: Peter Miller
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Talk Openstreetmap'
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Highway tagging in the USA
> 
> On 21/04/2008 19:46, Peter Miller wrote:
> > Also. please could someone to a 'trial render' of the area using one or
> > more potential 'USA friendly' colour schemes so we can see what it would
> > look like. Personally I would be interested in something along these
> lines:
> >
> > Orange and wide: Motoroway/trunk
> >
> > Yellow and wide: Primary
> >
> > Yellow at narrow: secondary
> >
> > Fainted yellow and narrow: tertiary
> 
> Curious that you say these are 'USA friendly' colors. I have in front of
> me a Rand-McNally road map of the US, bought and published in the US,
> and the key is as follows:
> 
> Free limited access highway: purplish blue with red casement
> 
> Toll limited access highway: light green with dark green casement
> 
> Other four lane divided highway: yellow with red casement
> 
> Principal highway (mostly used for wider non-divided state highways in
> practice): wide pink (no special casement)
> 
> Other through highway: narrow pink (no special casement)
> 
> Other road: narrow purple
> 
> Unpaved road: white with gray casement (though so small it just appears
> as a gray line really).
> 
> On the inset street-level maps, they carry this through, and in
> addition, show principal urban streets as gray
> 
> They also have some central area maps for some cities where they show
> every street. In these, the principal urban streets are now pink and the
> minor (residential) streets are gray. The big highways are as per the
> main map, though we get to see individual carriageways and junction
> arrangements at that scale.
> 
> The Golden Gate bridge is apparently tolled, so it is shown in the
> second category.
> 
> David


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Re: [OSM-talk] Highway tagging in the USA

[David Earl]

On 21/04/2008 19:46, Peter Miller wrote:
> Also… please could someone to a ‘trial render’ of the area using one or 
> more potential ‘USA friendly’ colour schemes so we can see what it would 
> look like. Personally I would be interested in something along these lines:
> 
> Orange and wide: Motoroway/trunk
> 
> Yellow and wide: Primary
> 
> Yellow at narrow: secondary
> 
> Fainted yellow and narrow: tertiary

Curious that you say these are 'USA friendly' colors. I have in front of 
me a Rand-McNally road map of the US, bought and published in the US, 
and the key is as follows:

Free limited access highway: purplish blue with red casement

Toll limited access highway: light green with dark green casement

Other four lane divided highway: yellow with red casement

Principal highway (mostly used for wider non-divided state highways in 
practice): wide pink (no special casement)

Other through highway: narrow pink (no special casement)

Other road: narrow purple

Unpaved road: white with gray casement (though so small it just appears 
as a gray line really).

On the inset street-level maps, they carry this through, and in 
addition, show principal urban streets as gray

They also have some central area maps for some cities where they show 
every street. In these, the principal urban streets are now pink and the 
minor (residential) streets are gray. The big highways are as per the 
main map, though we get to see individual carriageways and junction 
arrangements at that scale.

The Golden Gate bridge is apparently tolled, so it is shown in the 
second category.

David


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[OSM-talk] Highway tagging in the USA

[Peter Miller]

I thought it might be useful to have a concrete (literally) example of USA
tagging to talk about. So.. think I have tagged the highways from San
Francisco down to San Jose as described on the highway tagging page, with a
few exceptions. My reference was the international section of the highway
tag article:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Highway_tag_usage#International_equi
valence

 

The exceptions are as follows:

 

1) I upgraded the Golden Gate Bridge from primary to trunk, but I think it
should be motorway because it has ramp-only access.

 

2) I upgraded most of the 'braided' highways in the San Francisco area and
other main arteries further south to primary. Some of the ones I coded as
primary in the San Francisco area have now been retagged as tertiary. I have
sent am email to the author of these changes to see if the motivation is to
get the roads to render yellow or if I have missed something.

 

3) IThere are many roads that are currently still tagged as residential
which should probably be tertiary, secondary or primary and there are of
course many areas of grey between primary, secondary and tertiary, however I
think it would be good to get some feedback and discussion first. Could
people take a look and see if I have got it about right and suggest or
execute changes where required.

 

Also. please could someone to a 'trial render' of the area using one or more
potential 'USA friendly' colour schemes so we can see what it would look
like. Personally I would be interested in something along these lines:

 

Orange and wide: Motoroway/trunk

Yellow and wide: Primary

Yellow at narrow: secondary

Fainted yellow and narrow: tertiary

 

Could this be done off-line and then posted as an image on the wiki for
discussion? Could anyone have a go at this?

 

Btw, I have been copying some emails from talk onto talk-us over the past
few days but they haven't made it onto the list, not sure why. Possibly it
was because I was not a member of the list (which I now am).

 

 

 

Regards,

 

 

 

 

Peter

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Peter Ito

 

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Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging climbing routes and scrambles

[OJ W]

Not related to the namespace discussion, but the idea of cliff materials is
interesting.  Something I found when I attempted to tag dirt cliffs,
ravines, etc...

How about this one, which uses only existing tags?

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/Cliff_surface



On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 6:15 PM, Andy Allan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 2:58 PM, Tom Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I look at the proposed "climbing:rock=limestone" and wonder to what
> possible information the 'climbing' conveys, other than needless
> typing. Surely it's just rock=limestone?
>
> Cheers,
> Andy
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging climbing routes and scrambles

[OJ W]

That makes sense -- the top and bottom of a climbing route should be two
nodes separated by a way which indicates that it's fairly difficult to
travel between the two.  On our 2D map they'll be nearly on top of each
other, which is correct but a bit difficult to visualise.  Perhaps the ele=x
m tag would be useful here - so that if someone actually tries creating a 3D
map of a crag they'll have data to work with...



On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 10:10 AM, Steve Hill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Thu, 17 Apr 2008, Nick wrote:
>
> > It's very difficult to know what to do with climbing routes without
> > truly 3-dimensional mapping - that said your suggestion sounds feasible.
>
> Having thought more about this, my proposal has a problem: There is no way
> to show the difference between a path leading to the bottom of a route and
> the path leading to the top of the route.  I'm starting to think that for
> routes which do have a path to the top we need to have a node for both the
> top and bottom with a way between them, even though a lot of the time
> these nodes will be practically on top of each other...
>
>  - Steve
>xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   http://www.nexusuk.org/
>
>  Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] SVG tiles

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

>I have developed a mobile-phone Java app (called 'mom') to navigate OSM
>maps and save GPX tracks (amongst other things) which will soon be out
>there for people to download. It uses mapnick PNG tiles at 5 of OSM's
>scales (3, 6, 9, 12 & 15) which look nice but are quite big files to
>download to a phone (typically 12kB-15kB for scale 15) so take a
>significant amount of time and eat into a user's data allowance to fetch.
>I considered using the compact binary downloads aimed at mobile apps, but
>this is raw data and the graphics limitations of mobile Java mean the maps
>drawn from it would not look very pretty.

Check the source for the Java app "traveling salesman" (on
Sourceforce). I believe there's code in there to (a) compact OSM data
for use on a mobile device and (b) render maps from said compacted
data.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED]  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"


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Re: [OSM-talk] SVG tiles

[80n]

On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 2:33 PM, elvin ibbotson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> poco.org.uk
>
> I have developed a mobile-phone Java app (called 'mom') to navigate OSM
> maps and save GPX tracks (amongst other things) which will soon be out there
> for people to download. It uses mapnick PNG tiles at 5 of OSM's scales (3,
> 6, 9, 12 & 15) which look nice but are quite big files to download to a
> phone (typically 12kB-15kB for scale 15) so take a significant amount of
> time and eat into a user's data allowance to fetch.
>
> I considered using the compact binary downloads aimed at mobile apps, but
> this is raw data and the graphics limitations of mobile Java mean the maps
> drawn from it would not look very pretty.
>
> I am fairly ignorant of OSM data structures and back-room software but I
> understand SVG is used in producing bitmap tiles. As I understand it, the
> idea of SVG is not only to give nice, scalable, graphics, but to do so using
> smaller file/download sizes than bitmaps. Many/most of the newest mobile
> phones are able to draw SVG graphics in Java, as are browsers, and desktop
> Java will soon include SVG graphics, so it looks to me like the way forward.
> If tiles were available as SVG I am sure it would be relatively easy to
> substitute them for bitmap tiles in slippy maps or apps like mine. Not only
> would downloads be faster but a smaller range of scales would be needed,
> with the same data set and appearance being used for a range of scales and
> scaling of the SVG image used for intermediate (or infinitely adjustable)
> scales.
>
> I had been intending to get round to mailing this list enquiring if SVG
> downloads were possible/available when the Export tab appeared. My initial
> delight** was slightly diminished when I exported a map in two formats - SVG
> and PNG - and found the SVG version was 340kB while the PNG file was 132kB.
> A glance at the SVG data suggests that text is actually drawn (sometimes
> more than once (for background then again for the text itself) using long,
> elaborate paths and shape definitions of every character at every
> orientation and size, rather than just using the SVG text element!!! I
> suspect it also incorporates bitmap images as icons rather than using SVG
> definitions. I think SVG is the way forward, but not if the file sizes end
> up almost three times bigger than bitmaps!
>

Take a look at Osmarender.  This creates proper SVG.  Details here:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Osmarender



>
> I suggest that, if has not already been done and is hidden somewhere I
> haven't looked, that a server should be dedicated to scalable map tiles
> using a compact and efficient implementation of SVG coding.
>
> **Hats off to those involved, by the way < :-)
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] SVG tiles

[Nick]

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Robert (Jamie) Munro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>If it can draw the SVG maps, it doesn't have graphics limitations. If
>nothing else, you could download the OSM mobile binary and convert to
>SVG in the phone. Take a look at osmarender. It probably won't be easy
>to draw nice maps, but it would be a very useful addition to the OSM
>project if you can pull it off.

Has anyone tried rendering OSM data using OpenGL ES? I'm thinking in
terms of rendering the roads in 3d rather than simply mapping the tiles
as textures.

OpenGL ES has good support on Symbian, iPhone and the upcoming Google
Android platform.

Nick


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Re: [OSM-talk] SVG tiles

[Robert (Jamie) Munro]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

elvin ibbotson wrote:
| poco.org.uk
|
| I have developed a mobile-phone Java app (called 'mom') to navigate OSM
| maps and save GPX tracks (amongst other things) which will soon be out
| there for people to download. It uses mapnick PNG tiles at 5 of OSM's
| scales (3, 6, 9, 12 & 15) which look nice but are quite big files to
| download to a phone (typically 12kB-15kB for scale 15) so take a
| significant amount of time and eat into a user's data allowance to fetch.
|
| I considered using the compact binary downloads aimed at mobile apps,
| but this is raw data and the graphics limitations of mobile Java mean
| the maps drawn from it would not look very pretty.

If it can draw the SVG maps, it doesn't have graphics limitations. If
nothing else, you could download the OSM mobile binary and convert to
SVG in the phone. Take a look at osmarender. It probably won't be easy
to draw nice maps, but it would be a very useful addition to the OSM
project if you can pull it off.

Robert (Jamie) Munro


-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFIDLbDz+aYVHdncI0RAlVrAKDwefykLooQbPbnwzwyci6qvVmdagCeMutF
l3EMx++jm5aWuvZkEbhlbPI=
=BYM2
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: [OSM-talk] tagging and rendering highways in the USA and elsewhere

[Alex Mauer]

Jeffrey Martin wrote:

> I suppose we could switch to different tag values like 2ldr for "two 
> lane divided road with ramps". Do we need a whole new tag? The wrll tag 
> for "what road looks like"? Will changing
> the tagging scheme increase data accuracy enough to make up for the hassle?

You might want to look at my proposal at 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/Highway_administrative_and_physical_descriptions

-Alex Mauer "hawke"


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Re: [OSM-talk] SVG tiles

[Tom Hughes]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
elvin ibbotson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I had been intending to get round to mailing this list enquiring if
> SVG downloads were possible/available when the Export tab appeared.
> My initial delight** was slightly diminished when I exported a map in
> two formats - SVG and PNG - and found the SVG version was 340kB while
> the PNG file was 132kB. A glance at the SVG data suggests that text
> is actually drawn (sometimes more than once (for background then
> again for the text itself) using long, elaborate paths and shape
> definitions of every character at every orientation and size, rather
> than just using the SVG text element!!! I suspect it also
> incorporates bitmap images as icons rather than using SVG
> definitions. I think SVG is the way forward, but not if the file
> sizes end up almost three times bigger than bitmaps!

Some of the text is drawn twice in order to get the halo effect
that our mapnik stylesheet uses. The icons are bitmaps because, as
I believe I explained yesterday, mapnik does not (currently) support
vector symbols. If you want to help with that I'm sure Artem will be
pleased to here from you.

Everything else is essentially down to cairo, which is the rendering
library that mapnik uses to render vector maps. I ask it to render
text using a given font and if it chooses to convert that to a path
then that is because it thinks it isn't possible to do it as a text
render for some reason.

In general terms SVG is pretty verbose anyway, so it's not at all
clear to be that it's ideal for what you are doing.

I would also point out that the export service was really designed
for people doing one of exports and not to act as a back end for the
sort of thing you're doing and it is unlikely to scale well to
supporting large scale use of that sort.

> I suggest that, if has not already been done and is hidden somewhere
> I haven't looked, that a server should be dedicated to scalable map
> tiles using a compact and efficient implementation of SVG coding.

Sure. I'll just look in the cupboard marked "spare servers" and pull
out a server for you. Then I'll go write stack of code and deploy and
manage it for you.

Seriously. You want it, you write it.

Tom

-- 
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http://www.compton.nu/

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[OSM-talk] SVG tiles

[elvin ibbotson]

poco.org.uk

I have developed a mobile-phone Java app (called 'mom') to navigate  
OSM maps and save GPX tracks (amongst other things) which will soon  
be out there for people to download. It uses mapnick PNG tiles at 5  
of OSM's scales (3, 6, 9, 12 & 15) which look nice but are quite big  
files to download to a phone (typically 12kB-15kB for scale 15) so  
take a significant amount of time and eat into a user's data  
allowance to fetch.


I considered using the compact binary downloads aimed at mobile apps,  
but this is raw data and the graphics limitations of mobile Java mean  
the maps drawn from it would not look very pretty.


I am fairly ignorant of OSM data structures and back-room software  
but I understand SVG is used in producing bitmap tiles. As I  
understand it, the idea of SVG is not only to give nice, scalable,  
graphics, but to do so using smaller file/download sizes than  
bitmaps. Many/most of the newest mobile phones are able to draw SVG  
graphics in Java, as are browsers, and desktop Java will soon include  
SVG graphics, so it looks to me like the way forward. If tiles were  
available as SVG I am sure it would be relatively easy to substitute  
them for bitmap tiles in slippy maps or apps like mine. Not only  
would downloads be faster but a smaller range of scales would be  
needed, with the same data set and appearance being used for a range  
of scales and scaling of the SVG image used for intermediate (or  
infinitely adjustable) scales.


I had been intending to get round to mailing this list enquiring if  
SVG downloads were possible/available when the Export tab appeared.  
My initial delight** was slightly diminished when I exported a map in  
two formats - SVG and PNG - and found the SVG version was 340kB while  
the PNG file was 132kB. A glance at the SVG data suggests that text  
is actually drawn (sometimes more than once (for background then  
again for the text itself) using long, elaborate paths and shape  
definitions of every character at every orientation and size, rather  
than just using the SVG text element!!! I suspect it also  
incorporates bitmap images as icons rather than using SVG  
definitions. I think SVG is the way forward, but not if the file  
sizes end up almost three times bigger than bitmaps!


I suggest that, if has not already been done and is hidden somewhere  
I haven't looked, that a server should be dedicated to scalable map  
tiles using a compact and efficient implementation of SVG coding.


**Hats off to those involved, by the way < :-)

[EMAIL PROTECTED]





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[OSM-talk] OSM for mobile web pages?

[John07]

Andrew Harris schrieb:
> now: I'd like to use OSM on pages optimised for mobile phone - google
> maps have a service which displays a small (about 200px sq.) image
> with simple links to pan and zoom. The 'tile browser' at
> http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~ojw/Browse/ is close, but way too large
> for mobile phone screens. I also can't get
> http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~ojw/MapOf/ to work.
>
> note: I'm not talking about a standalone app - mgmaps is brilliant for
> that. I want to have simple maps in simple web pages as images.
>
> Have looked around a bit and not found anything... Ideas?
>   
Someone made a special webpage for the iphone/ipod touch.
It is optimized for the multitouch in safari. On my ipod touch it works
very well.
osm.planetschmidt.de 

Jonas



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Re: [OSM-talk] Dhaka is under water!

[Steve Hill]

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008, Francois De Ryckel wrote:

> AS I was working on Dhaka (Bangaldesh) I deleted by mistake some nodes
> that belong to some coastline drawing  Consequences: the whole Dhaka
> is now under water!  (I know is pretty common but it isn't now the rainy
> season ...  2 more months!)  Any way to repair that mistake...

Select the coastline in potlatch, hit H and revert the change.

  - Steve
xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED]   sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.nexusuk.org/

  Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence


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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM for mobile web pages?

[John07]

Andrew Harris schrieb:
> now: I'd like to use OSM on pages optimised for mobile phone - google
> maps have a service which displays a small (about 200px sq.) image
> with simple links to pan and zoom. The 'tile browser' at
> http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~ojw/Browse/ is close, but way too large
> for mobile phone screens. I also can't get
> http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~ojw/MapOf/ to work.
>
> note: I'm not talking about a standalone app - mgmaps is brilliant for
> that. I want to have simple maps in simple web pages as images.
>
> Have looked around a bit and not found anything... Ideas?
>   
Someone made a special webpage for the iphone/ipod touch.
It is optimized for the multitouch in safari. On my ipod touch it works 
very well.
osm.planetschmidt.de 

Jonas


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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM for mobile web pages?

[Hakan Tandogan]

On Mon, April 21, 2008 14:03, Steve Hill wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Apr 2008, Frederik Ramm wrote:
>
>
>> Tiles are 256x256 pixel. If you want decent usability you must
>> display three columns and three rows and then always pan by +/-1
>> otherwise the user gets confused. You could try to simply display one
>> tile but I doubt this will work well.
>
> I think Google's just displays one tile.  Of course, we don't just have
> to do what Google does. :)
>
> Displaying a 256x256 tile, but being able to scroll the map half a tile
> at a time would work better, but is complex (probably requires rendering a
>  whole extra set of tiles)

The mobile application (MIDlet or whatever you use on the phone) could
fetch multiple tiles and just show part of that image.

Wouldn't work if you just use built-in browsers, though...


Regards,
Hakan


-- 
The key to immortality is first living a life worth remembering...



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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM for mobile web pages?

[Dodi]

Hi,
I am thinking about "mobile browser" a long time... and now I prepared som 
quick-n-dirty demo, with one zoomlevel only, with on th fly 256x256 tile 
cuting to 64x64 pixel subtiles and displaying them as 3x3 subtiles in one 
table, "subtiles" on edges has link  like 
http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~ojw/Browse/

her is link for demo  http://mobile.freemap.sk  :)

Dodi


- Original Message - 
From: "Andrew Harris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 1:44 PM
Subject: [OSM-talk] OSM for mobile web pages?


> first - congrats on the export tab - that's some slick work
>
> now: I'd like to use OSM on pages optimised for mobile phone - google
> maps have a service which displays a small (about 200px sq.) image
> with simple links to pan and zoom. The 'tile browser' at
> http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~ojw/Browse/ is close, but way too large
> for mobile phone screens. I also can't get
> http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~ojw/MapOf/ to work.
>
> note: I'm not talking about a standalone app - mgmaps is brilliant for
> that. I want to have simple maps in simple web pages as images.
>
> Have looked around a bit and not found anything... Ideas?
>
> -- 
> Andrew Harris
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.woowoowoo.com
>
> ~~~ <*>< ~~~
>
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[OSM-talk] Dhaka is under water!

[Francois De Ryckel]

Hello there,

AS I was working on Dhaka (Bangaldesh) I deleted by mistake some nodes
that belong to some coastline drawing  Consequences: the whole Dhaka
is now under water!  (I know is pretty common but it isn't now the rainy
season ...  2 more months!)  Any way to repair that mistake...

Thank you for your advices



François de Ryckel


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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM for mobile web pages?

[Steve Hill]

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008, Frederik Ramm wrote:

> Tiles are 256x256 pixel. If you want decent usability you must
> display three columns and three rows and then always pan by +/-1
> otherwise the user gets confused. You could try to simply display one
> tile but I doubt this will work well.

I think Google's just displays one tile.  Of course, we don't just have to 
do what Google does. :)

Displaying a 256x256 tile, but being able to scroll the map half a tile at 
a time would work better, but is complex (probably requires rendering a 
whole extra set of tiles)

  - Steve
xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED]   sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.nexusuk.org/

  Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence


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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM for mobile web pages?

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

> now: I'd like to use OSM on pages optimised for mobile phone - google
> maps have a service which displays a small (about 200px sq.) image
> with simple links to pan and zoom. The 'tile browser' at
> http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~ojw/Browse/ is close, but way too large
> for mobile phone screens.

Tiles are 256x256 pixel. If you want decent usability you must  
display three columns and three rows and then always pan by +/-1  
otherwise the user gets confused. You could try to simply display one  
tile but I doubt this will work well.

Anything not working with existing tiles would mean that you either  
have to create tiles yourself which requires a bit of infrastructure,  
or you would have to combine and split existing tiles through a web  
service which would mean that all map traffic goes through that  
service...

Bye
Frederik

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM for mobile web pages?

[Tom Hughes]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Andrew Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> now: I'd like to use OSM on pages optimised for mobile phone - google
> maps have a service which displays a small (about 200px sq.) image
> with simple links to pan and zoom. The 'tile browser' at
> http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~ojw/Browse/ is close, but way too large
> for mobile phone screens. I also can't get
> http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~ojw/MapOf/ to work.

Those are old URLs - all [EMAIL PROTECTED] services are on tah.openstreetmap.org
and every time you use the osmarender export from the export tab
you are actually using MapOf...

MapOf is pretty slow though.

Tom

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[OSM-talk] OSM for mobile web pages?

[Andrew Harris]

first - congrats on the export tab - that's some slick work

now: I'd like to use OSM on pages optimised for mobile phone - google
maps have a service which displays a small (about 200px sq.) image
with simple links to pan and zoom. The 'tile browser' at
http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~ojw/Browse/ is close, but way too large
for mobile phone screens. I also can't get
http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~ojw/MapOf/ to work.

note: I'm not talking about a standalone app - mgmaps is brilliant for
that. I want to have simple maps in simple web pages as images.

Have looked around a bit and not found anything... Ideas?

-- 
Andrew Harris
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.woowoowoo.com

~~~ <*>< ~~~

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Re: [OSM-talk] New Export Tab

[Steve Hill]

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008, Tom Hughes wrote:

> With the mapnik bitmaps formats, if you assume the bitmap to be
> a 96 DPI image then the scale should be what you asked for I think.

It might be worth mentioning this on the export page itself.

In any case, excellent work.  I'm going to have to start investigating the 
use of the main OSM codebase for the OpenPisteMap website - things like 
the export tab would be extremely useful there.

  - Steve
xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED]   sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.nexusuk.org/

  Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence


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Re: [OSM-talk] New Export Tab

[Tom Hughes]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Richard Fairhurst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I'm looking forward to delving into the code (when Potlatch 0.8b is  
> out of the way) and examining the possibility of adding unstyled  
> Illustrator export.

That was the other thing I was thinking about that I just alluded
to in another message ;-)

Tom

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Re: [OSM-talk] New Export Tab

[Andy Robinson (blackadder)]

Richard Fairhurst wrote:
>Sent: 21 April 2008 10:36 AM
>To: talk@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] New Export Tab
>
>Frederik Ramm wrote:
>
>> Patrick Weber wrote:
>>> Just wanted to congratulate whoever was involved in the development of
>>> the Export tab.
>>
>> +1. I guess it was TomH's work and there's no reason not to announce
>> such a major development on the lists (for the benefit of those who
>> don't use the trac RSS feed).
>
>Indeed. Absolutely delighted to come back and find this had appeared -
>turns out we've been discussing export to PDF for two years now, which
>is eons in OSM terms:
>
>http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/dev/2006-May/001246.html
>
>I'm looking forward to delving into the code (when Potlatch 0.8b is
>out of the way) and examining the possibility of adding unstyled
>Illustrator export.

+1 to that idea :-)

Cheers

Andy

>
>cheers
>Richard
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] New Export Tab

[Richard Fairhurst]

Frederik Ramm wrote:

> Patrick Weber wrote:
>> Just wanted to congratulate whoever was involved in the development of
>> the Export tab.
>
> +1. I guess it was TomH's work and there's no reason not to announce
> such a major development on the lists (for the benefit of those who
> don't use the trac RSS feed).

Indeed. Absolutely delighted to come back and find this had appeared -  
turns out we've been discussing export to PDF for two years now, which  
is eons in OSM terms:

http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/dev/2006-May/001246.html

I'm looking forward to delving into the code (when Potlatch 0.8b is  
out of the way) and examining the possibility of adding unstyled  
Illustrator export.

cheers
Richard


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Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging climbing routes and scrambles

[Bernd Raichle]

On Saturday, 19 April 2008 11:46:52 +1200,
Robin Paulson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
 > 2008/4/18 Steve Hill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
 > > > structure=pole
 > > > highway=bus_stop
 > > > amenity=post_box
 > >
 > >  Ok, but you still have a potential conflict here.  Hypothetically, you
 > > could have a "timetable" tag which applies to both a bus stop (tells you
 > > when busses arrive) and a post box (when is the post collected?).  A neat
 > > solution is to have "bus_stop:timetable" and "post_box:timetable".
 > 
 > sorry, i should have made that clearer. i would do this as 3 separate
 > items, maybe as a relation (slight overkill, but anyway). the relation
 > would contain 3 nodes, one for the pole, one for the bus stop and one
 > for the post box. thus each can have it's own timetable without any
 > confusion. i would never tag one point (or way) as two separate items,
 > that's asking for trouble, even if the tags don't clash
 > 
 > technically this is wrong (not all 3 nodes can easily share the same
 > point and still be editable), but i don't see a huge problem in 2 of
 > them being slightly offset

They can share the same _position_, represented in OSM as one node.
IMHO the only "natural" possibility in OSM to describe three different
entities at the same position is by using "relations".  I.e., put the
node to its physical location, and add three relations with this node
as member to describe (a) the pole, (b) the bus stop, and (c) the post
box.


 > > > a lot of the disputes over tagging are caused by people confusing
 > > > physical items with conceptual ones; if we thought about separating
 > > > them before debating a tagging scheme, things would be a lot clearer
 > >
 > >  That may be, but I still think in some cases you are going to want 
 > > multiple
 > > conceptual items attached to a single item - namespacing allows this to be
 > > done without risk of conflicting tags and makes it more obvious how the 
 > > tags
 > > interact with each item (conceptual or physical).
 > >
 > >  The same thing _could_ be done with relations (i.e. you mark up the
 > > physical items with ways and nodes and use relations containing physical
 > > items to represent the conceptial things).  But at the moment that would be
 > > even more complex than a clear set of namespaces.

... if the OSM editors support a basic set of relations to add groups
of tags to a single item as easy as adding a single tag to a node/way,
IMHO namespaces are not really needed.


Best wishes,
  -bernd

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Re: [OSM-talk] New Export Tab

[Patrick Weber]

Axel von Matern wrote:
Yea the export tab is a great leap forward for this project! Makes it 
so much more useful then any other map service! Thanks


(WARNING POSSIBLE FEATURE REQUEST)
- Is it possible to export larger chunks of the maps at the maximum 
level of detail?
I guess the size of the export really is a question of performance, as 
there's only a finite amount of processing power that can be devoted to 
the export functionality. If you need such larger chunks, you could try 
and download successive bits of the extent you need and paste them 
together again, or write a custom script that directly downloads the 
relevant tiles. Also, you could try Kosmos as an alternative rendering 
engine.


(WARNING DWEEB QUESTIONS)
- Is it possible to import the XML-file into Illustrator?
- When I use this map, how can I tell the scale and projection when 
printing? Would it be correct just to say WGS84? And calculate the 
scale manually. Would that be enough to get that professional touch?
The projection issue would be solved by the integration of world files 
or geoaware formats as proposed. I guess thats a job for phase two.


begin:vcard
fn:Patrick Weber
n:Weber;Patrick
org:University College London
adr:;;Gower Street;London;;WC1E 6BT;United Kingdom
email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
title:Engineering Doctorate Student
tel;work:02077185430
url:http://www.ucl.ac.uk/cemi
version:2.1
end:vcard

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Re: [OSM-talk] New Export Tab

[Juan Lucas Dominguez Rubio]

Hello, Axel :
 
The scale bar provided currently (April 21, 2008) by the main browser at 
www.openstreetmap.org is wrong. The image you get with the Export tab has no 
scale bar, so I recommend to use the Export tab and compute the scale bar 
yourself.
 
More details:
 
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2008-April/025361.html
 
Regards,
Lucas
 


De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] en nombre de Axel von Matern
Enviado el: lun 21/04/2008 10:42
Para: OSM-Dev Openstreetmap; OSM-Talk Openstreetmap; Patrick Weber
Asunto: Re: [OSM-talk] New Export Tab



Yea the export tab is a great leap forward for this project! Makes it 
so much more useful then any other map service! Thanks

(WARNING POSSIBLE FEATURE REQUEST)
- Is it possible to export larger chunks of the maps at the maximum 
level of detail?

(WARNING DWEEB QUESTIONS)
- Is it possible to import the XML-file into Illustrator?
- When I use this map, how can I tell the scale and projection when 
printing? Would it be correct just to say WGS84? And calculate the 
scale manually. Would that be enough to get that professional touch?


21 apr 2008 kl. 10.06 skrev Frederik Ramm:
>
>
>> Just wanted to congratulate whoever was involved in the development 
>> of
>> the Export tab.
>
>

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Re: [OSM-talk] New Export Tab

[Tom Hughes]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Axel von Matern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> (WARNING POSSIBLE FEATURE REQUEST)
> - Is it possible to export larger chunks of the maps at the maximum  
> level of detail?

No, because it would be too computationally expensive to produce
such maps. In the case of the bitmap images it would require vast
amounts of memory and in the case of the vector images they would
be unusable even if you could produce them as the files would be
so large that rendering them would take forever.

> (WARNING DWEEB QUESTIONS)
> - Is it possible to import the XML-file into Illustrator?

Not unless Illustrator has magically gained an understanding of
OpenStreetMap XML data while I wasn't looking, at that seems
extremely unlikely.

Your best bet will be to take the mapnik SVG/PDF/PS image and
import that - Illustrator should be able to read at least one
of those.

> - When I use this map, how can I tell the scale and projection when  
> printing? Would it be correct just to say WGS84? And calculate the  
> scale manually. Would that be enough to get that professional touch?

The scale will be (give or take) what you asked for in the case
of mapnik - there is as I explained yesterday one possible issue
over the question of DPI assumptions with the vector formats.

With the mapnik bitmaps formats, if you assume the bitmap to be
a 96 DPI image then the scale should be what you asked for I think.

The projection is the Google spherical mercator projection for
both mapnik and osmarender images (aka EPSG 900913).

Tom

-- 
Tom Hughes ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
http://www.compton.nu/

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Re: [OSM-talk] New Export Tab

[Renaud Martinet]

And another lolcat goes to TomH :)

The idea was floating around for some time but I think he really has
done a good job here. I wasn't expecting the export tab to work that
way but I really like how he's done it! Easy and nice to work with.
Congrats.


Renaud.

On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 10:42 AM, Axel von Matern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yea the export tab is a great leap forward for this project! Makes it
>  so much more useful then any other map service! Thanks
>
>  (WARNING POSSIBLE FEATURE REQUEST)
>  - Is it possible to export larger chunks of the maps at the maximum
>  level of detail?
>
>  (WARNING DWEEB QUESTIONS)
>  - Is it possible to import the XML-file into Illustrator?
>  - When I use this map, how can I tell the scale and projection when
>  printing? Would it be correct just to say WGS84? And calculate the
>  scale manually. Would that be enough to get that professional touch?
>
>
>  21 apr 2008 kl. 10.06 skrev Frederik Ramm:
>
> >
>  >
>  >> Just wanted to congratulate whoever was involved in the development
>  >> of
>  >> the Export tab.
>  >
>  >
>
>
>
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>

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Re: [OSM-talk] New Export Tab

[Axel von Matern]

Yea the export tab is a great leap forward for this project! Makes it  
so much more useful then any other map service! Thanks

(WARNING POSSIBLE FEATURE REQUEST)
- Is it possible to export larger chunks of the maps at the maximum  
level of detail?

(WARNING DWEEB QUESTIONS)
- Is it possible to import the XML-file into Illustrator?
- When I use this map, how can I tell the scale and projection when  
printing? Would it be correct just to say WGS84? And calculate the  
scale manually. Would that be enough to get that professional touch?


21 apr 2008 kl. 10.06 skrev Frederik Ramm:
>
>
>> Just wanted to congratulate whoever was involved in the development  
>> of
>> the Export tab.
>
>

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Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] New Export Tab

[Yann]

On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 9:06 AM, Frederik Ramm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Patrick Weber wrote:
> > Just wanted to congratulate whoever was involved in the development of
> > the Export tab.
>
> +1. I guess it was TomH's work and there's no reason not to announce
> such a major development on the lists (for the benefit of those who
> don't use the trac RSS feed). If it hadn't been for Andy's mention I'd
> probably still tell people to download map tiles and glue them together
> if they want a quick bitmap ;-)
>
> Apart from being useful to create a default styled map, the Export tab
> gives me the excellent rebuke to anyone who says "why don't you use
> Google": "Sure, where's *their* Export tab?".
>
> Good work!
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>

Congratulations from my part as well; not to forget about the scale and the
map key, which were sooo needed. Great work - so nice to see osm moving
forward :)

Yann
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Re: [OSM-talk] New Export Tab

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

Patrick Weber wrote:
> Just wanted to congratulate whoever was involved in the development of 
> the Export tab.

+1. I guess it was TomH's work and there's no reason not to announce 
such a major development on the lists (for the benefit of those who 
don't use the trac RSS feed). If it hadn't been for Andy's mention I'd 
probably still tell people to download map tiles and glue them together 
if they want a quick bitmap ;-)

Apart from being useful to create a default styled map, the Export tab 
gives me the excellent rebuke to anyone who says "why don't you use 
Google": "Sure, where's *their* Export tab?".

Good work!

Bye
Frederik


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Re: [OSM-talk] Lakes and relations, what did I break?

[Martijn van Oosterhout]

On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 3:14 AM, Frederik Ramm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  Close-areas uses a tile index to find out what to do when it
>  encounters a tile with *no* coastline at all (and your tiles do not
>  have coastline on them). The tile index may indicate either land, sea,
>  or "mixed". It returns "mixed" for your tiles. I am leaning towards
>  changing this into "land" because your tiles are, from a "the coast of
>  Ireland" perspective, clearly inland... any thoughts on that, Martijn
>  (who invented the tile index)?

Yeah, it should be marked land. I find it interesting that bugs in the
tile index have become quite rare  recently, which would indicate
we've almost converged to almost the right file.

>  My initial implementation of close-areas did create a blue background
>  only if the tile index indicated "sea". It seems that meanwhile
>  someone has added code to "guess" the background colour in cases where
>  the tile index indicates "mixed". The guessing goes like this:

Yeah, the guessing rule was a bit if a hack, and IIRC you're looking
at the new version :)

Have a nice day,
-- 
Martijn van Oosterhout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://svana.org/kleptog/

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