Re: [OSM-talk] Best-practice-idea traffic_sign
On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 02:08:28 +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > Well, I know about others: maxspeedtype=ITA:city > for example, or maxspeed=DE:walk > > I don't understand why key:country=value is different to key=country:value > but I would like to learn about it. In that one case it's okay. Reason: * There can only be ONE maxspeed on a road. ever! * What is tagged here is not a given speed-limitation but the fact that the default maxspeed of the country of italy for roads inside cities applies. I don't know anyone who actually evaluates that yet but given the disastrous state of missing city-polygons it may help in speed/time based routing-metrics. However as opposed to city-polygons it does not act as a city-limit to make postal address-searches better. (So you could get a more realistic ETA but get swamped with way too many roads that may be the one you want to navigate when searching for your destination.) Marcus ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Best-practice-idea traffic_sign
On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 01:07:08 +0200, Pieren wrote: > 2. It says that the main use is for city_limit. Again, why not. But > the other examples are very questionable : "traffic_sign=maxspeed:30" > or "traffic_sign=DE:239" break some practices we had until now like > key=value and not key=key:value or like key:country=value and not > key=country:value. You can tag the sign as "city_limit". It's a nice thing for rendering but be warned that it is completely useless for navigation. (For the later a polygon (e.g. place=*)describing where the city-limits are in all directions are needed as opposed to mapping the location of some signs on some roads that leave the city for various reasons.) Also keep in mind that there are 3 different city-limits. * where traffic is considered "inside a build-up area" (navigation) * where postal addresses contain to that city (searching) * where the outermost buildings end. (rendering) > So, any comments about this Best-practice-idea process ? Is it > possible to have a real discussion about the examples or is it too > late ? It has been discussed at length before. Please consult the archive first. Marcus ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Clearance
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 12:00 PM, John Smith wrote: > --- On Wed, 29/7/09, Aun Johnsen (via Webmail) > wrote: > >> I have made a proposal for a tag > I think this will only serve to confuse, no where on the maxheight wiki link > you provided does it say it's a legal restriction, if anything it's exactly > the same thing you're just giving people the option of picking tags so half > the system will have maxheight used, and half will have clearance and the > routing software will end up with twice the work for no benefit. True, maxheight currently does not specify the reason. So the question is, is there a need to differentiate between different "kinds" of maxheight? Surely this issue has come up before in relation to other keys? If there is in fact a need to differentiate, what's the most common practice? For example, "maxheight:physical=*" and "maxheight:legal=*"? Just throwing ideas around, but you would first need to demonstrate that "maxheight" is not sufficient. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] My online presence
All Bar about two or three of my most ardent friends I am the strongest believer and defender of free speech and the free market I know. The former, I believe far beyond what exists in the United Kingdom and much of Europe. I came to this position after volunteering for organisations which campaigned on the interface between public policy and computers on issues like copyright, encryption and identity cards before OpenStreetMap was born. Thus what I say is tempered by a relatively deep understanding of the rights and issues surrounding things like fair dealing/use, right to privacy and so on. There is a blog and twitter account which attempts to mirror my thoughts and actions with witty insight. These represent at a guess two or three people who for the most part are quite funny if crude. A fake persona in the digital age. The recent departures in to my personal life amongst this commentary has moved beyond what I will reasonably deal with, and has begun to impact others which I don't feel is appropriate. This is sad. So I feel the need to reduce my online presence which I regret, in that the very point of the web is sharing information and I enjoy those services like flickr and dopplr which I will shortly curtail. It will certainly not totally stop any more personal comments to withdraw from these services any more than the RIAA suing twelve year olds will stop music piracy, but I will limit the scope of information available. This will give me some comfort. The quickest and simplest way to remove myself is to unfollow, unsubscribe and unfriend people en masse from these various services and begin again by admitting people carefully and with a consideration of privacy. If you're the victim of this then don't take it personally, just re-friend me or send me a note. This post will give me something to link to for explanation. In any case I salute parody but I must protect others from the fallout. Yours &c. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Clearance
--- On Wed, 29/7/09, Aun Johnsen (via Webmail) wrote: > I have made a proposal for a tag > marking physical clearance over roads, this because it is > not the same as legal restrictions on height, and in many > countries have a different sign warning the driver that he > might not be able to pass, though he still not is legaly > restricted. The proposal can be found on > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/clearance I think this will only serve to confuse, no where on the maxheight wiki link you provided does it say it's a legal restriction, if anything it's exactly the same thing you're just giving people the option of picking tags so half the system will have maxheight used, and half will have clearance and the routing software will end up with twice the work for no benefit. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Clearance
I have made a proposal for a tag marking physical clearance over roads, this because it is not the same as legal restrictions on height, and in many countries have a different sign warning the driver that he might not be able to pass, though he still not is legaly restricted. The proposal can be found on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/clearance [1] Brgds Aun Johnsen via Webmail Links: -- [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/clearance ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Best-practice-idea traffic_sign
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 11:05 AM, John Smith wrote: > Have things reached the level that people have nothing but street signs to > map as POIs? Hehe. I don't see why we should discourage a high level of detail. Users can decide for themselves what they want to contribute, as long as they annotate it correctly, which seems to be the case here IMHO. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Business listings - a website
What I'm saying is, when a new user (using this interface) sees the map they would assume that the POI/business establishment are not yet in the "map". They would then add the info knowing it's not yet there. I like the simplicity of ojw's mockup. We don't need to overcomplicate it at the moment. On 7/30/09, Joseph Reeves wrote: >>I prefer though that the data shouldn't be directly added to the >>database especially for well-mapped areas. >>Some POIs do not appear in the map (mapnik or osmarender). > > But then you're just mapping for the renderers - omitting data because > two of current representations of the database as provided by osm.org > don't show everything the database includes. What about if someone was > to produce a new renderer from current OSM data? > > Of course, renderers are only the start - if the OSM database > contained enough information about local businesses somebody could > start a project involving OSM, Asterisk and some text <-> speech > software that would allow you to phone a number and get a list of the > nearest bicycle shops to your current location that were open at the > time. Or the nearest car repair shop that was approved by your > insurance company, or... > > We shouldn't limit ourselves by what could be drawn on a map, > especially if we limit that even further by what is currently drawn on > two examples. > > Cheers, Joseph > > > > 2009/7/30 maning sambale : >> This is really useful and would love this simple service to be >> implemented. >> I prefer though that the data shouldn't be directly added to the >> database especially for well-mapped areas. >> Some POIs do not appear in the map (mapnik or osmarender). A >> volunteer mapper can subscribe to a boundingbox >> and edit them before upload. I always prefer a human rather than some >> yellowpages.bot.script. >> >> On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 5:05 AM, OJ W wrote: >>> Sorry for breaking the thread, but I did a mockup of a website that >>> people could use to enter their own businesses into OSM: >>> >>> http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~ojw/SmallAds/ >>> >>> so any user of this website can* create up to 5 OSM nodes, label them >>> as amenity=whatever, and enter a description, a phone number, and a >>> website. >>> >>> the idea would be: this is pitched at small business owners who've >>> never heard of OSM, and only buy advertising on yellow pages because >>> someone knocked at their door and sold it to them. It should take >>> less than 10 minutes to setup, for someone who only once per month >>> uses the computer their grandson bought them, and should be simple >>> enough that you can guide someone though it over the phone. >>> >>> Additionally, it should be easy for self-employed salesmen to go >>> around their home towns selling this service to every business, taking >>> some fixed price to enter the shop's details into OSM, print a map for >>> them, and give them an for their website. We can't reach >>> everybody to help in OSM, but if someone sees a business in creating >>> free data then maybe they can help us. >>> >>> * I've done an basic webapp mockup, but could someone help with coding >>> the creation of OSM objects? It's neanderthal PHP at the moment, but >>> you can port it to rails or cake or J2EEmanagementEdition if you >>> prefer. >>> >>> Ideas welcome >>> >>> regards, >>> >>> OJW >>> >>> ___ >>> talk mailing list >>> talk@openstreetmap.org >>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> cheers, >> maning >> -- >> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden >> wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ >> blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ >> -- >> >> ___ >> talk mailing list >> talk@openstreetmap.org >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >> > -- cheers, maning -- "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Best-practice-idea traffic_sign
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 10:46 AM, John Smith wrote: > > --- On Wed, 29/7/09, Pieren wrote: > > the other examples are very questionable : > > "traffic_sign=maxspeed:30" > > That does look questionable if for no other reason that maxspeed should be > used consistently so routing doesn't have to look for 50 different tags or > parse all tags looking for those with maxspeed in them. To me, that looks like somebody is marking *the sign*, as opposed to marking *the maxspeed restriction*. Seems fine to me - because the sign does physically exist on the ground - but the restriction should also be mapped, using maxspeed=30. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Best-practice-idea traffic_sign
--- On Wed, 29/7/09, Roy Wallace wrote: > To me, that looks like somebody is marking *the sign*, as > opposed to > marking *the maxspeed restriction*. Seems fine to me - > because the > sign does physically exist on the ground - but the > restriction should > also be mapped, using maxspeed=30. Have things reached the level that people have nothing but street signs to map as POIs? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Best-practice-idea traffic_sign
--- On Wed, 29/7/09, Pieren wrote: > the other examples are very questionable : > "traffic_sign=maxspeed:30" That does look questionable if for no other reason that maxspeed should be used consistently so routing doesn't have to look for 50 different tags or parse all tags looking for those with maxspeed in them. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging Love Hotels ("Brazilian Motels")
--- On Wed, 29/7/09, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > Well, I would tag them completely differently. It is a > different kind > of object, it is not a Motel where you just pay according > to a > different fee system / business modell. There is a tag for brothel in the system already ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Best-practice-idea traffic_sign
2009/7/30 Pieren : > true it's going faster. Or I missed the announcement somewhere on a > mailing-list... maybe it was just announced on the German ML, but I remember about it > 2. It says that the main use is for city_limit. Again, why not. But > the other examples are very questionable : "traffic_sign=maxspeed:30" > or "traffic_sign=DE:239" break some practices we had until now like > key=value and not key=key:value or like key:country=value and not > key=country:value. Well, I know about others: maxspeedtype=ITA:city for example, or maxspeed=DE:walk I don't understand why key:country=value is different to key=country:value but I would like to learn about it. > So, any comments about this Best-practice-idea process ? Is it > possible to have a real discussion about the examples or is it too > late ? it's never too late, and you can always discuss. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Best-practice-idea traffic_sign
Hi, Pieren wrote: > Today I saw for the first time on the area I'm contributing a tag > called traffic_sign=city_limit. Then I went on the map features and > discovered it. Huh, why not... Exactly. I haven't been involved in the discussion, I don't use it myself, and I find it strange to talk about a "best-practice idea" (because best practice comes from practice, not from ideas). Nevertheless, if there are people who think this is good and works for them - let them use it. > So, any comments about this Best-practice-idea process? I don't think there is such a process. It's just a bunch of people who thought this was a good idea. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Business listings - a website
>I prefer though that the data shouldn't be directly added to the >database especially for well-mapped areas. >Some POIs do not appear in the map (mapnik or osmarender). But then you're just mapping for the renderers - omitting data because two of current representations of the database as provided by osm.org don't show everything the database includes. What about if someone was to produce a new renderer from current OSM data? Of course, renderers are only the start - if the OSM database contained enough information about local businesses somebody could start a project involving OSM, Asterisk and some text <-> speech software that would allow you to phone a number and get a list of the nearest bicycle shops to your current location that were open at the time. Or the nearest car repair shop that was approved by your insurance company, or... We shouldn't limit ourselves by what could be drawn on a map, especially if we limit that even further by what is currently drawn on two examples. Cheers, Joseph 2009/7/30 maning sambale : > This is really useful and would love this simple service to be implemented. > I prefer though that the data shouldn't be directly added to the > database especially for well-mapped areas. > Some POIs do not appear in the map (mapnik or osmarender). A > volunteer mapper can subscribe to a boundingbox > and edit them before upload. I always prefer a human rather than some > yellowpages.bot.script. > > On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 5:05 AM, OJ W wrote: >> Sorry for breaking the thread, but I did a mockup of a website that >> people could use to enter their own businesses into OSM: >> >> http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~ojw/SmallAds/ >> >> so any user of this website can* create up to 5 OSM nodes, label them >> as amenity=whatever, and enter a description, a phone number, and a >> website. >> >> the idea would be: this is pitched at small business owners who've >> never heard of OSM, and only buy advertising on yellow pages because >> someone knocked at their door and sold it to them. It should take >> less than 10 minutes to setup, for someone who only once per month >> uses the computer their grandson bought them, and should be simple >> enough that you can guide someone though it over the phone. >> >> Additionally, it should be easy for self-employed salesmen to go >> around their home towns selling this service to every business, taking >> some fixed price to enter the shop's details into OSM, print a map for >> them, and give them an for their website. We can't reach >> everybody to help in OSM, but if someone sees a business in creating >> free data then maybe they can help us. >> >> * I've done an basic webapp mockup, but could someone help with coding >> the creation of OSM objects? It's neanderthal PHP at the moment, but >> you can port it to rails or cake or J2EEmanagementEdition if you >> prefer. >> >> Ideas welcome >> >> regards, >> >> OJW >> >> ___ >> talk mailing list >> talk@openstreetmap.org >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >> > > > > -- > cheers, > maning > -- > "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden > wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ > blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ > -- > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging Love Hotels ("Brazilian Motels")
Here is the propose page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Love_Hotel Cheers, 2009/7/29 Aun Johnsen (via Webmail) > On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 23:17:59 +0200, Ulf Lamping > > wrote: > > Joseph Scanlan schrieb: > >> On Wed, 29 Jul 2009, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > >> > >>> Well, I would tag them completely differently. It is a different kind > >>> of object, it is not a Motel where you just pay according to a > >>> different fee system / business modell. > >> > >> Around here I would not use a separate tag. No-Tell Motels must show a > >> little discretion. Hourly rate is a pretty clear hint as to what people > > >> are doing there (not sleeping) but it still looks like a motel on the > >> outside. > >> > >> Places that are more open could very well have businesses that deserve a > > >> special tag. For example, I wouldn't tag any business in Clark County > >> as a brothel, the brothels look like other businesses and the > >> prostitutes will go somewhere else when the location draws too much > >> attention from law enforcement. In other Nevada counties, were > >> prostitution is legal, a brothel tag makes sense. These are clearly > >> labeled, well established businesses. > >> > >> Just my point of view from a rather atypical city in the US desert south > > >> west. > >> > > > > You seem to think about an "inofficial brothel", as prostitution is > > illegal in some parts of nevada. > > > > IIRC the brazilian "love hotels" are often used by "regular couples" (so > > probably no "business" involved). Because the couple still lives at > > their parents, not married, or whatever. IIRC, this kind of "motel" is > > also known in japan. > > > > > > Yes, I guess it makes sense to tag them special, as a normal traveller > > probably wouldn't want to stay there. > > > > As we already have amenity=brothel, why not use amenity=love_hotel for > > this? > > > I think in most cases they can be tagged as normal motels, most of them > also offer day-rates or even week-rates in addition to hour-rates, most of > them have a few or more "Adult" tv-channels, but so do many hotels. The > only difference is that some of them have a 18year limit for guests (no > minores under 18 can stay). The kind of rates a motel (or hotel for that > matter) should be possible to tag, I do not think the entertainment package > is of interest to the map, age limits might be tagged as some sort of > restriction. I also know that there are "normal" hotels that have some > restrictions, such as no infants, unmarried couples cannot share room, no > alcoholic beverage, etc. > > IMO, a brazilian love hotel should be tagged motel, with additional tags > if needed. > > Me and my wife use such love hotels at times to get a night from the kids, > so there are several usages. > > When travelling in Brazil, usually Pousada is a good and cheap place to > stay, taking the role of motels in Europe, though most pousadas don't > accept visitors after a certain hour (without prior > notification/reservation) while the motels accepts visitors at any hour. > -- > Brgds > Aun Johnsen > via Webmail > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > -- Arlindo Saraiva Pereira Jr. Bacharelando em Sistemas de Informação - UNIRIO - uniriotec.br Consultor de Software Livre da Uniriotec Consultoria - uniriotec.com Acadêmico: arlindo.pere...@uniriotec.br Profissional: arlindo.pere...@uniriotec.com Geral: cont...@arlindopereira.com Tel.: +5521 92504072 Jabber/Google Talk: nig...@nighto.net Skype: nighto_sumomo Chave pública: BD065DEC ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Layer transitions
2009/7/29 Harald Kleiner : > Hi! > > I want to talk about this page on the wiki describing how to map tunnels > correctly: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tunnel#How_to_Map > > Especially the last paragraph causes headaches to me: > "If the tunnel ends in a junction you'll need a small un-tunneled way > between the end of the tunnel and the junction" > > > Where does this rule come from? > this might be a logical topic: we are mapping the center of the road. The tunnel can not end at the center of the crossing road, because this road itself is not a tunnel. (you will have at least half the width of the crossing road untunneled). cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging Love Hotels ("Brazilian Motels")
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 23:17:59 +0200, Ulf Lamping wrote: > Joseph Scanlan schrieb: >> On Wed, 29 Jul 2009, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: >> >>> Well, I would tag them completely differently. It is a different kind >>> of object, it is not a Motel where you just pay according to a >>> different fee system / business modell. >> >> Around here I would not use a separate tag. No-Tell Motels must show a >> little discretion. Hourly rate is a pretty clear hint as to what people >> are doing there (not sleeping) but it still looks like a motel on the >> outside. >> >> Places that are more open could very well have businesses that deserve a >> special tag. For example, I wouldn't tag any business in Clark County >> as a brothel, the brothels look like other businesses and the >> prostitutes will go somewhere else when the location draws too much >> attention from law enforcement. In other Nevada counties, were >> prostitution is legal, a brothel tag makes sense. These are clearly >> labeled, well established businesses. >> >> Just my point of view from a rather atypical city in the US desert south >> west. >> > > You seem to think about an "inofficial brothel", as prostitution is > illegal in some parts of nevada. > > IIRC the brazilian "love hotels" are often used by "regular couples" (so > probably no "business" involved). Because the couple still lives at > their parents, not married, or whatever. IIRC, this kind of "motel" is > also known in japan. > > > Yes, I guess it makes sense to tag them special, as a normal traveller > probably wouldn't want to stay there. > > As we already have amenity=brothel, why not use amenity=love_hotel for > this? > I think in most cases they can be tagged as normal motels, most of them also offer day-rates or even week-rates in addition to hour-rates, most of them have a few or more "Adult" tv-channels, but so do many hotels. The only difference is that some of them have a 18year limit for guests (no minores under 18 can stay). The kind of rates a motel (or hotel for that matter) should be possible to tag, I do not think the entertainment package is of interest to the map, age limits might be tagged as some sort of restriction. I also know that there are "normal" hotels that have some restrictions, such as no infants, unmarried couples cannot share room, no alcoholic beverage, etc. IMO, a brazilian love hotel should be tagged motel, with additional tags if needed. Me and my wife use such love hotels at times to get a night from the kids, so there are several usages. When travelling in Brazil, usually Pousada is a good and cheap place to stay, taking the role of motels in Europe, though most pousadas don't accept visitors after a certain hour (without prior notification/reservation) while the motels accepts visitors at any hour. -- Brgds Aun Johnsen via Webmail ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] definition of the main highway-tag
2009/7/29 Greg Troxel : > There are three separate concepts: > > physical structure > > administrative designation > > importance according to actual use maybe there could be also a forth that is structural importance for the historical development (e.g. the main street, that was there before all others and the rest developed around it). > I would be in favor of > trying to move slightly to importance-based tagging me too > using ref to mark administrative designation +1 > using motorway and trunk as the current rules state. Here, the roads > are so big physically that the importance more or less matches, and > all such roads are important more or less by definition. yes, motorways are the most easy ones, they are motorways when they are motorways (in Germany Autobahnsign, in other countries equivalent sign). > using primary, secondary, tertiary without real regard to legal status > or physical size, but according to usage: +1 > primary is typically used for long-distance travel, 100km or more, > or for a road that until recently was still used for that and is > still culturally important +1, even when the long-distances in Europe might begin at 50 km, the concept is the same > secondary is typically used for travel at least 25km (between > multiple towns) > tertiary is used to get to secondary roads (to get to the 'real > road' in the next town) this is working well for out-of-town situations. Inside urban agglomerations there should be different criteria though (and not necessarily they are physical, what is my point: let's put the definition according to everyday best-practise tagging). cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging Love Hotels ("Brazilian Motels")
Yes, that's right, usually regular couples go there. Should I propose a new tag? Cheers, 2009/7/29 Ulf Lamping > Joseph Scanlan schrieb: > > On Wed, 29 Jul 2009, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > >> Well, I would tag them completely differently. It is a different kind > >> of object, it is not a Motel where you just pay according to a > >> different fee system / business modell. > > > > Around here I would not use a separate tag. No-Tell Motels must show a > > little discretion. Hourly rate is a pretty clear hint as to what people > > are doing there (not sleeping) but it still looks like a motel on the > > outside. > > > > Places that are more open could very well have businesses that deserve a > > special tag. For example, I wouldn't tag any business in Clark County > > as a brothel, the brothels look like other businesses and the > > prostitutes will go somewhere else when the location draws too much > > attention from law enforcement. In other Nevada counties, were > > prostitution is legal, a brothel tag makes sense. These are clearly > > labeled, well established businesses. > > > > Just my point of view from a rather atypical city in the US desert south > > west. > > > > You seem to think about an "inofficial brothel", as prostitution is > illegal in some parts of nevada. > > IIRC the brazilian "love hotels" are often used by "regular couples" (so > probably no "business" involved). Because the couple still lives at > their parents, not married, or whatever. IIRC, this kind of "motel" is > also known in japan. > Yes, I guess it makes sense to tag them special, as a normal traveller > probably wouldn't want to stay there. > > As we already have amenity=brothel, why not use amenity=love_hotel for > this? > > Regards, ULFL > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > -- Arlindo Saraiva Pereira Jr. Bacharelando em Sistemas de Informação - UNIRIO - uniriotec.br Consultor de Software Livre da Uniriotec Consultoria - uniriotec.com Acadêmico: arlindo.pere...@uniriotec.br Profissional: arlindo.pere...@uniriotec.com Geral: cont...@arlindopereira.com Tel.: +5521 92504072 Jabber/Google Talk: nig...@nighto.net Skype: nighto_sumomo Chave pública: BD065DEC ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Business listings - a website
This is really useful and would love this simple service to be implemented. I prefer though that the data shouldn't be directly added to the database especially for well-mapped areas. Some POIs do not appear in the map (mapnik or osmarender). A volunteer mapper can subscribe to a boundingbox and edit them before upload. I always prefer a human rather than some yellowpages.bot.script. On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 5:05 AM, OJ W wrote: > Sorry for breaking the thread, but I did a mockup of a website that > people could use to enter their own businesses into OSM: > > http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~ojw/SmallAds/ > > so any user of this website can* create up to 5 OSM nodes, label them > as amenity=whatever, and enter a description, a phone number, and a > website. > > the idea would be: this is pitched at small business owners who've > never heard of OSM, and only buy advertising on yellow pages because > someone knocked at their door and sold it to them. It should take > less than 10 minutes to setup, for someone who only once per month > uses the computer their grandson bought them, and should be simple > enough that you can guide someone though it over the phone. > > Additionally, it should be easy for self-employed salesmen to go > around their home towns selling this service to every business, taking > some fixed price to enter the shop's details into OSM, print a map for > them, and give them an for their website. We can't reach > everybody to help in OSM, but if someone sees a business in creating > free data then maybe they can help us. > > * I've done an basic webapp mockup, but could someone help with coding > the creation of OSM objects? It's neanderthal PHP at the moment, but > you can port it to rails or cake or J2EEmanagementEdition if you > prefer. > > Ideas welcome > > regards, > > OJW > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > -- cheers, maning -- "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Best-practice-idea traffic_sign
Hi all, Today I saw for the first time on the area I'm contributing a tag called traffic_sign=city_limit. Then I went on the map features and discovered it. Huh, why not... I'm not watching the map features changes since the page length is exceeding 100 meters ... But I'm reading this list and others and never noticed a mention about such a key proposal. Anyway, marking the beginning/end of a town can be helpful because it's usually changing the speedlimit, etc. Then I click on the wiki page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:traffic_sign and then surprise: 1. you have to read carefully at the end of the page or in the discussion tab to see that it is not an "approved" key, it is a "best-practice-idea". Well, that's a new concept. Until now, we had two categories of tags : the ones proposed and discussed on the wiki but never "approved" by a vote or a poll but widely used in the database, the ones discussed and approved, and now, the "best-practice-ideas" discussed and approved by three persons. It's true it's going faster. Or I missed the announcement somewhere on a mailing-list... 2. It says that the main use is for city_limit. Again, why not. But the other examples are very questionable : "traffic_sign=maxspeed:30" or "traffic_sign=DE:239" break some practices we had until now like key=value and not key=key:value or like key:country=value and not key=country:value. So, any comments about this Best-practice-idea process ? Is it possible to have a real discussion about the examples or is it too late ? Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging Love Hotels ("Brazilian Motels")
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009, Ulf Lamping wrote: > You seem to think about an "inofficial brothel", as prostitution is illegal > in some parts of nevada. Sorry I wasn't clear. I understand the love motel isn't a brothel. My point is that in places that disapprove (officially or not) some business look a lot like other businesses (and may even offer "normal" services to some clients). Should there be a love motel tag? IMHO, yes. Would I use the tag to describe a motel around here? No. One probably could rent a room for the night, alone, to sleep (but the clerk might try to direct the guest to some place more appropriate). So... after all that, I probably haven't helped the original poster at all. (But I am enjoying the thread!) -- - Joseph Scanlan +1-702-455-3679 http://www.n7xsd.us/ j...@co.clark.nv.us (work) (not work) n7...@arrl.net - So he went inside there to take on what he found. But he never escaped them, for who can escape what he desires? --Tony Banks of Genesis in "The Lady Lies" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging Love Hotels ("Brazilian Motels")
Joseph Scanlan schrieb: > On Wed, 29 Jul 2009, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > >> Well, I would tag them completely differently. It is a different kind >> of object, it is not a Motel where you just pay according to a >> different fee system / business modell. > > Around here I would not use a separate tag. No-Tell Motels must show a > little discretion. Hourly rate is a pretty clear hint as to what people > are doing there (not sleeping) but it still looks like a motel on the > outside. > > Places that are more open could very well have businesses that deserve a > special tag. For example, I wouldn't tag any business in Clark County > as a brothel, the brothels look like other businesses and the > prostitutes will go somewhere else when the location draws too much > attention from law enforcement. In other Nevada counties, were > prostitution is legal, a brothel tag makes sense. These are clearly > labeled, well established businesses. > > Just my point of view from a rather atypical city in the US desert south > west. > You seem to think about an "inofficial brothel", as prostitution is illegal in some parts of nevada. IIRC the brazilian "love hotels" are often used by "regular couples" (so probably no "business" involved). Because the couple still lives at their parents, not married, or whatever. IIRC, this kind of "motel" is also known in japan. Yes, I guess it makes sense to tag them special, as a normal traveller probably wouldn't want to stay there. As we already have amenity=brothel, why not use amenity=love_hotel for this? Regards, ULFL ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Business listings - a website
Sorry for breaking the thread, but I did a mockup of a website that people could use to enter their own businesses into OSM: http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~ojw/SmallAds/ so any user of this website can* create up to 5 OSM nodes, label them as amenity=whatever, and enter a description, a phone number, and a website. the idea would be: this is pitched at small business owners who've never heard of OSM, and only buy advertising on yellow pages because someone knocked at their door and sold it to them. It should take less than 10 minutes to setup, for someone who only once per month uses the computer their grandson bought them, and should be simple enough that you can guide someone though it over the phone. Additionally, it should be easy for self-employed salesmen to go around their home towns selling this service to every business, taking some fixed price to enter the shop's details into OSM, print a map for them, and give them an for their website. We can't reach everybody to help in OSM, but if someone sees a business in creating free data then maybe they can help us. * I've done an basic webapp mockup, but could someone help with coding the creation of OSM objects? It's neanderthal PHP at the moment, but you can port it to rails or cake or J2EEmanagementEdition if you prefer. Ideas welcome regards, OJW ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] i18n-rich areas on the map
Emilie, If you are going to add machine-created romaji transliterations, then I strongly suggest that you put them into name:jp_rm (as given in the Japanese mappers' specification above) and do not put them into name:en. See: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Japan_tagging#Names Using name:jp_rm will be much clearer and consistent than using name:en. It will also be better for using in multi-lingual maps, because the software displaying the map can then be (more) certain which "language" is stored in each tag and display the "correct" ones. Automatically creating loads of new name:en tags containing romaji instead of English will increase confusion. I personally think that name:en should only be used for real English translations (although the Japanese mappers' spec. doesn't say that - it allows for transliterations or translations!). Another reason for putting your machine transliterations into name:jp_rm would be to avoid the situation where you add a romaji transliteration into the name:en tag when there is actually a legitimate English translation that should be in there. I can't think of a way for your software to know whether there is a legitimate English translation or not, given that it requires local knowledge (at least some of the time)? It would be much better to have the name:en blank in cases where there is a legitimate English translation (and the translation has not been entered yet!). As many of the Japanese edits are going to be entered by Japanese natives who may not know the legitimate English translations, I'd guess that there are going to be quite a lot of blank name:en tags that should have an English translation not a romaji transliteration, so 'blank' can't be automatically interpreted as 'needs romaji transliteration'. Having just re-read your posting, I'm actually not so sure what you are proposing - you wrote "I believe that we should keep name:en and name:jp clearly separated." but than you also wrote "I do believe that translitteration is worthy of appearing in name:en when none exists." Hmmm! Cheers, Woll (mapper in Japan) > Emilie Laffray wrote: > Ed Avis wrote: >> This is not really name:en, more like name:j...@romaji. >> >> For example the Imperial Palace in Tokyo would have >> >>name:en=Imperial Palace >>name:j...@romaji=koukyo >>name:jp=?? >> >> Similar considerations apply to countries with more than one >> alphabet, for example >> I would expect to see >> >>name:en=Belgrade >>name:s...@cyrillic=??? >>name:s...@latn=beograd >> >> Putting something into a different alphabet is not the same as >> translating it to a >> different language, and putting Japanese into a Latin orthography >> is not the same >> as translating it to English. So I would suggest adding the Romaji >> strings if they >> are needed, but tagging them appropriately and not as name:en. >> > Thank you for this comment and yes, I am quite aware of the > distinction > for the Japanese language. However, I do believe that translitteration > is worthy of appearing in name:en when none exists. I am taking the > opposite approach that you are mentionning in this case. In all cases, > you are starting in English to go towards the other language. > Yes putting it in a different alphabet is not the same, but it can > be a > starting point until someone is filling the blank with a proper > translation hence the two steps: translitteration and a dedicated > translation website. > However, you have rightly pointed how multiple writings could be used. > Maybe a name:Latn would be better in this case or something indicating > the language and the destination alphabet. > This is an open mail and an open discussion which I believe is worth > having. > I am to some extent a bit annoyed to see things like name = name in > native language (English translation) in the OSM files. I believe that > we should keep name:en and name:jp clearly separated. Having fully > localized maps for people of those countries would be better. Now, I > can > see some objections as you being the foreigner you won't be able to > read, but those people in those countries won't contribute if they > don't > see their language displayed in their countries. > As the discussion is showing, there are some efforts to have dynamic > text layers which I believe is important hence the translitteration > effort I am proposing. > > Emilie Laffray > > -- next part -- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: signature.asc > Type: application/pgp-sig
[OSM-talk] Layer transitions
Hi! I want to talk about this page on the wiki describing how to map tunnels correctly: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tunnel#How_to_Map Especially the last paragraph causes headaches to me: "If the tunnel ends in a junction you'll need a small un-tunneled way between the end of the tunnel and the junction" Where does this rule come from? Does this mean that two ways connected on a junction like this may not be on different layers? | way B | | -*-- way A Is this statement right: The only valid way to switch layer is this setting: Way AWay B *-- (a node where exactly one way starts and exactly one other way ends) Thank you, Best regards Harald ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Business listings
Arlindo Pereira wrote: > I strongly disagree with you on this point. If I could use Google Maps > to find plumbers, dentists and web designers, why shouldn't I be able > to do it with OpenStreetMap? Perhaps not on Garmin, but on OSM.org or > OpenStreetBrowser or whatever application that uses OSM data. Maybe > it's just a matter of making Garmin ignore it. > I don't have a problem with having the other business listings there IF having them doesn't compromise the quality of the business listings I actually want. Already my handheld has a menu that lets me select for major categories, so I won't find zoos while looking for gas stations. (Though it would be nice to say NO PIZZA, NO SUBS, and sometimes NO CHINESE FOOD...) I see it more as a matter of resources and business model. If there's a way to get good data for everything, great -- if not, I think it's OK to focus on areas where there's a strong need. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging Love Hotels ("Brazilian Motels")
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > Well, I would tag them completely differently. It is a different kind > of object, it is not a Motel where you just pay according to a > different fee system / business modell. Around here I would not use a separate tag. No-Tell Motels must show a little discretion. Hourly rate is a pretty clear hint as to what people are doing there (not sleeping) but it still looks like a motel on the outside. Places that are more open could very well have businesses that deserve a special tag. For example, I wouldn't tag any business in Clark County as a brothel, the brothels look like other businesses and the prostitutes will go somewhere else when the location draws too much attention from law enforcement. In other Nevada counties, were prostitution is legal, a brothel tag makes sense. These are clearly labeled, well established businesses. Just my point of view from a rather atypical city in the US desert south west. -- - Joseph Scanlan +1-702-455-3679 http://www.n7xsd.us/ j...@co.clark.nv.us (work) (not work) n7...@arrl.net - So he went inside there to take on what he found. But he never escaped them, for who can escape what he desires? --Tony Banks of Genesis in "The Lady Lies" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] definition of the main highway-tag
If the highway-tag was the only tag on a road, I would agree with this approach, but as we are meanwhile tagging physical attributes as supplementory tags (e.g. lanes, surface, traffic-lights), as we do for administrative classification (ref), I am in favour of changing the definition for highway (no longer mainly physical but mainly according to importance / logical position in the grid). The other properties and attributes will still persist (ref, lanes, dual-carriageways, surface, tracktype, ...) and describe the situation. Also there won't be many changes / tagging-modifications necessary, because bigger roads are generally more important roads. What do you think about this? There are three separate concepts: physical structure administrative designation importance according to actual use In the US we are more or less following: interstate => interstate class, so motorway trunk is physical, but tends to match importance among primary/secondary/tertiary, it's not really about physical any more US highways tend to be important, and get primary without scrutiny state highways tend to be somewhat important and get secondary by default after that, state highways get upgraded to primary if usage warrants, and other semi-important roads get marked tertiary which blurs all three, but in a way that doesn't cause a lot of trouble. I would be in favor of trying to move slightly to importance-based tagging using ref to mark administrative designation using motorway and trunk as the current rules state. Here, the roads are so big physically that the importance more or less matches, and all such roads are important more or less by definition. using primary, secondary, tertiary without real regard to legal status or physical size, but according to usage: primary is typically used for long-distance travel, 100km or more, or for a road that until recently was still used for that and is still culturally important secondary is typically used for travel at least 25km (between multiple towns) tertiary is used to get to secondary roads (to get to the 'real road' in the next town) This is more or less that I do around my town, and it mostly matches the rules. pgp4X0xjO57L4.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging Love Hotels ("Brazilian Motels")
That's the point. Shouldn't we use another tag to map these kind of hotels? I imagine a search tool for each type of hotels, without having to guess about the period or the movies :P 2009/7/29 Joseph Scanlan > Perhaps an additional tag to show stay duration. > >stay=hourly;daily;weekly;monthly > > Use any that apply. (There's probably a better tag to use than 'stay'.) > > We used to have a motel in town that featured "Free XXX Adult Movies" on > their Marque (just in case hourly rates weren't a big enough hint). > >http://www.flickr.com/photos/89004...@n00/773484486/ > > http://www.roadsidepeek.com/roadusa/southwest/nevada/vegas/lvmotel/lvstripmotel/index2.htm > > -- > - > Joseph Scanlan > +1-702-455-3679 http://www.n7xsd.us/ > j...@co.clark.nv.us (work) (not work) n7...@arrl.net > - > > So he went inside there to take on what he found. > But he never escaped them, for who can escape what he desires? > --Tony Banks of Genesis > in "The Lady Lies" > -- Arlindo Saraiva Pereira Jr. Bacharelando em Sistemas de Informação - UNIRIO - uniriotec.br Consultor de Software Livre da Uniriotec Consultoria - uniriotec.com Acadêmico: arlindo.pere...@uniriotec.br Profissional: arlindo.pere...@uniriotec.com Geral: cont...@arlindopereira.com Tel.: +5521 92504072 Jabber/Google Talk: nig...@nighto.net Skype: nighto_sumomo Chave pública: BD065DEC ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging Love Hotels ("Brazilian Motels")
2009/7/29 Joseph Scanlan : > Perhaps an additional tag to show stay duration. > > stay=hourly;daily;weekly;monthly > > Use any that apply. (There's probably a better tag to use than 'stay'.) > > We used to have a motel in town that featured "Free XXX Adult Movies" on > their Marque (just in case hourly rates weren't a big enough hint). > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/89004...@n00/773484486/ > > http://www.roadsidepeek.com/roadusa/southwest/nevada/vegas/lvmotel/lvstripmotel/index2.htm Well, I would tag them completely differently. It is a different kind of object, it is not a Motel where you just pay according to a different fee system / business modell. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging Love Hotels ("Brazilian Motels")
Perhaps an additional tag to show stay duration. stay=hourly;daily;weekly;monthly Use any that apply. (There's probably a better tag to use than 'stay'.) We used to have a motel in town that featured "Free XXX Adult Movies" on their Marque (just in case hourly rates weren't a big enough hint). http://www.flickr.com/photos/89004...@n00/773484486/ http://www.roadsidepeek.com/roadusa/southwest/nevada/vegas/lvmotel/lvstripmotel/index2.htm -- - Joseph Scanlan +1-702-455-3679 http://www.n7xsd.us/ j...@co.clark.nv.us (work) (not work) n7...@arrl.net - So he went inside there to take on what he found. But he never escaped them, for who can escape what he desires? --Tony Banks of Genesis in "The Lady Lies" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] definition of the main highway-tag
Hi, reading the English page for tag highway http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway and comparing it to the German version, I found some inconsistencies. Whilst I generally would have tried to transfer the English content to the German page, in this particular case I think that the German version is better. The main definition in English is: The '''highway tag''' is the primary tag used for highways. It is often the only tag. It is a very general and sometimes vague ''description of the physical structure of the highway''. This goes back to an edit from 27th Oct. 2007 (Etric Celine). Until then (from March 06) there was just this: "Applying to feature type: Physical ". The German version defines: "Das highway Tag ist das Haupt-tag für Straßen. Oftmals ist es auch das einzige Tag. Es ist recht allgemein und bestimmt in etwa die Verkehrsbedeutung der Straße. " (translates ~ "The tag highway is the primary tag for highways. Often it is the only one. It is quite general and defines ~ the importance of the road for the traffic" There are then 2 examples to show the advantage of a physical classification in respect to an administrative one (on the English page, dating back to the same edit): "Here are two examples where the highway tag differs from the legal status: Some roads in the UK that were legally classified as trunk roads have been "detrunked" and are no longer designated by the government as trunk roads. These roads should still have the tag highway=trunk. /* This first example is valid for a classification according to the importance as well, while the 2nd would result in different tagging: */ A road which is legally designated as trunk road has a section where the road is not built to trunk standards, e.g. a single lane with passing areas. The section that is not built to trunk standards should be given a different value for highway other than trunk. _ If the highway-tag was the only tag on a road, I would agree with this approach, but as we are meanwhile tagging physical attributes as supplementory tags (e.g. lanes, surface, traffic-lights), as we do for administrative classification (ref), I am in favour of changing the definition for highway (no longer mainly physical but mainly according to importance / logical position in the grid). The other properties and attributes will still persist (ref, lanes, dual-carriageways, surface, tracktype, ...) and describe the situation. Also there won't be many changes / tagging-modifications necessary, because bigger roads are generally more important roads. What do you think about this? cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] i18n-rich areas on the map
Ed Avis wrote: > This is not really name:en, more like name:j...@romaji. > > For example the Imperial Palace in Tokyo would have > > name:en=Imperial Palace > name:j...@romaji=koukyo > name:jp=?? > > Similar considerations apply to countries with more than one alphabet, for > example > I would expect to see > > name:en=Belgrade > name:s...@cyrillic=??? > name:s...@latn=beograd > > Putting something into a different alphabet is not the same as translating it > to a > different language, and putting Japanese into a Latin orthography is not the > same > as translating it to English. So I would suggest adding the Romaji strings > if they > are needed, but tagging them appropriately and not as name:en. > Thank you for this comment and yes, I am quite aware of the distinction for the Japanese language. However, I do believe that translitteration is worthy of appearing in name:en when none exists. I am taking the opposite approach that you are mentionning in this case. In all cases, you are starting in English to go towards the other language. Yes putting it in a different alphabet is not the same, but it can be a starting point until someone is filling the blank with a proper translation hence the two steps: translitteration and a dedicated translation website. However, you have rightly pointed how multiple writings could be used. Maybe a name:Latn would be better in this case or something indicating the language and the destination alphabet. This is an open mail and an open discussion which I believe is worth having. I am to some extent a bit annoyed to see things like name = name in native language (English translation) in the OSM files. I believe that we should keep name:en and name:jp clearly separated. Having fully localized maps for people of those countries would be better. Now, I can see some objections as you being the foreigner you won't be able to read, but those people in those countries won't contribute if they don't see their language displayed in their countries. As the discussion is showing, there are some efforts to have dynamic text layers which I believe is important hence the translitteration effort I am proposing. Emilie Laffray signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Business listings
I strongly disagree with you on this point. If I could use Google Maps to find plumbers, dentists and web designers, why shouldn't I be able to do it with OpenStreetMap? Perhaps not on Garmin, but on OSM.org or OpenStreetBrowser or whatever application that uses OSM data. Maybe it's just a matter of making Garmin ignore it. The Osmarender/Mapnik renderings could get cluttered, but I think that this is not a problem of the database itself; maybe we should add even closer zoom levels on crowded places. 2009/7/27 Paul Houle > Phil Endecott wrote: > > > > I'm not sure how far you can extrapolate from that, but I think it's > > still fair to say that Yellow Pages covers most businesses. Certainly > > the copies that arrive on my doorstep each year (and go straight into > > the recycling bin) are not getting any thinner. > > > > > Personally, I'm not concerned with a database that contains ~all~ > businesses, rather just the kind of businesses that a person would be > interested in if they're travelling. > >I won't use my Garmin to find a plumber, a dentist or a web > designer. I would use it to find a restaurant, gas station or hotel. > >Producing and maintaining a list of businesses (identity management) > is a different problem from determining how good a business is, and > what experiences people have had with it. I know that geonames contains > a database of hotels. > >Personally I'm most interested in the restaurants. Travelling in > the rural US, I tire pretty quick of pizza, subs and chinese food. > The ideal system finds me something that isn't one of those, but if it > can't do that, at least helps me get a good sub instead of a bad sub. > > > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > -- Arlindo Saraiva Pereira Jr. Bacharelando em Sistemas de Informação - UNIRIO - uniriotec.br Consultor de Software Livre da Uniriotec Consultoria - uniriotec.com Acadêmico: arlindo.pere...@uniriotec.br Profissional: arlindo.pere...@uniriotec.com Geral: cont...@arlindopereira.com Tel.: +5521 92504072 Jabber/Google Talk: nig...@nighto.net Skype: nighto_sumomo Chave pública: BD065DEC ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Question about gps coordinates 001W0547 convert to -1.0547
are you sure it's not degrees minutes and seconds mashed-together? "004E4800" looks a bit like 4 degrees, 48 minutes, 00 seconds On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 5:54 PM, Thomas Wood wrote: > It looks like its a mashed form of the standard decimal Lat Lons. > > Assuming your conversion is correct: > Replace the letter with a decimal point. > If S or W place a - before the first set of digits for that coordinate. > Swap the pair of coordinates around, so the northing is first, as is > more common. > > Gpsbabel is not suitable for this, it only deals with file formats, > not coordinate formats. > > 004E4800,47N2000 => 47.2, 4.48 > 002W2300,57N => 57.0, -2.23 > > > 2009/7/29 Marc Coevoet : >> Hello, >> >> I want to convert >> >> 004E4800,47N2000 >> 002W2300,57N >> 001W0547,51N4823 >> 013E2600,47N3400 >> 013E2600,47N3400 >> 013E2600,47N3400 >> 013E2600,47N3400 >> 013E2500,47N3343 >> >> >> to something where 001W0547 becomes -1.0547 >> >> Is gpsbabel capable, and what format is 001W0547 ?? >> >> >> Thanks, >> Marc >> >> -- >> Shortwave transmissions in English, Francais, Deutsch, Suid-Afrikaans, Urdu, >> Cantonese, Greek, Spanish, Portuguese, ... >> http://users.fulladsl.be/spb13810/radio/swlist/ >> Stations list: http://users.fulladsl.be/spb13810/radio/txlist/ >> >> >> ___ >> talk mailing list >> talk@openstreetmap.org >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >> > > > > -- > Regards, > Thomas Wood > (Edgemaster) > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging Love Hotels ("Brazilian Motels")
Always on short time basis (1-4h) and always with the "love" factor...
perhaps the portuguese Wikipedia article translated to english [2] would
help on clarifying that.
2:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=pt-BR&sl=pt&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpt.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FMotel
Cheers,
2009/7/29 Martin Koppenhoefer
> 2009/7/29 Arlindo Pereira :
> > Hi there,
> >
> > here in Brazil, and in most of Latin America as I can see on Wikipedia
> [1],
> > so-called "motels" are short-time hotels or "love hotels", differing from
> > the original concept in english (hotel for drivers). Do you think that we
> > should tag them differently (such as amenity=lovehotel or whatever,
> > tourism=lovehotel doesn't seems to fit) or keep it tourism=motel?
> >
> > It's a thin line, because some love hotels ("motels" here) call
> themselves
> > "hotels" but everyone (the locals) knows that they are, in fact, love
> > hotels.
> >
> > 1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motel#Short-time
>
> do you pay them on a short time basis or could you stay there the
> whole night for the same price? If it's the first, I would tag them
> differently, otherwise I think they could be tagged like normal
> motels.
>
> cheers,
> Martin
>
--
Arlindo Saraiva Pereira Jr.
Bacharelando em Sistemas de Informação - UNIRIO - uniriotec.br
Consultor de Software Livre da Uniriotec Consultoria - uniriotec.com
Acadêmico: arlindo.pere...@uniriotec.br
Profissional: arlindo.pere...@uniriotec.com
Geral: cont...@arlindopereira.com
Tel.: +5521 92504072
Jabber/Google Talk: nig...@nighto.net
Skype: nighto_sumomo
Chave pública: BD065DEC
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Re: [OSM-talk] Question about gps coordinates 001W0547 convert to -1.0547
It looks like its a mashed form of the standard decimal Lat Lons. Assuming your conversion is correct: Replace the letter with a decimal point. If S or W place a - before the first set of digits for that coordinate. Swap the pair of coordinates around, so the northing is first, as is more common. Gpsbabel is not suitable for this, it only deals with file formats, not coordinate formats. 004E4800,47N2000 => 47.2, 4.48 002W2300,57N => 57.0, -2.23 2009/7/29 Marc Coevoet : > Hello, > > I want to convert > > 004E4800,47N2000 > 002W2300,57N > 001W0547,51N4823 > 013E2600,47N3400 > 013E2600,47N3400 > 013E2600,47N3400 > 013E2600,47N3400 > 013E2500,47N3343 > > > to something where 001W0547 becomes -1.0547 > > Is gpsbabel capable, and what format is 001W0547 ?? > > > Thanks, > Marc > > -- > Shortwave transmissions in English, Francais, Deutsch, Suid-Afrikaans, Urdu, > Cantonese, Greek, Spanish, Portuguese, ... > http://users.fulladsl.be/spb13810/radio/swlist/ > Stations list: http://users.fulladsl.be/spb13810/radio/txlist/ > > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > -- Regards, Thomas Wood (Edgemaster) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Question about gps coordinates 001W0547 convert to -1.0547
Hello, I want to convert 004E4800,47N2000 002W2300,57N 001W0547,51N4823 013E2600,47N3400 013E2600,47N3400 013E2600,47N3400 013E2600,47N3400 013E2500,47N3343 to something where 001W0547 becomes -1.0547 Is gpsbabel capable, and what format is 001W0547 ?? Thanks, Marc -- Shortwave transmissions in English, Francais, Deutsch, Suid-Afrikaans, Urdu, Cantonese, Greek, Spanish, Portuguese, ... http://users.fulladsl.be/spb13810/radio/swlist/ Stations list: http://users.fulladsl.be/spb13810/radio/txlist/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging Love Hotels ("Brazilian Motels")
2009/7/29 Arlindo Pereira :
> Hi there,
>
> here in Brazil, and in most of Latin America as I can see on Wikipedia [1],
> so-called "motels" are short-time hotels or "love hotels", differing from
> the original concept in english (hotel for drivers). Do you think that we
> should tag them differently (such as amenity=lovehotel or whatever,
> tourism=lovehotel doesn't seems to fit) or keep it tourism=motel?
>
> It's a thin line, because some love hotels ("motels" here) call themselves
> "hotels" but everyone (the locals) knows that they are, in fact, love
> hotels.
>
> 1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motel#Short-time
do you pay them on a short time basis or could you stay there the
whole night for the same price? If it's the first, I would tag them
differently, otherwise I think they could be tagged like normal
motels.
cheers,
Martin
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[OSM-talk] Tagging Love Hotels ("Brazilian Motels")
Hi there,
here in Brazil, and in most of Latin America as I can see on Wikipedia [1],
so-called "motels" are short-time hotels or "love hotels", differing from
the original concept in english (hotel for drivers). Do you think that we
should tag them differently (such as amenity=lovehotel or whatever,
tourism=lovehotel doesn't seems to fit) or keep it tourism=motel?
It's a thin line, because some love hotels ("motels" here) call themselves
"hotels" but everyone (the locals) knows that they are, in fact, love
hotels.
1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motel#Short-time
[]
--
Arlindo Saraiva Pereira Jr.
Bacharelando em Sistemas de Informação - UNIRIO - uniriotec.br
Consultor de Software Livre da Uniriotec Consultoria - uniriotec.com
Acadêmico: arlindo.pere...@uniriotec.br
Profissional: arlindo.pere...@uniriotec.com
Geral: cont...@arlindopereira.com
Tel.: +5521 92504072
Jabber/Google Talk: nig...@nighto.net
Skype: nighto_sumomo
Chave pública: BD065DEC
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Re: [OSM-talk] Custom OpenStreetMaps ?
Apparently you need to host the map yourself. 1) Click Download Map 2) Upload map.html it to your web host or save it to a directory on your local machine 3) Put map.css and util.js into the same directory as map.html (urls below) 4) Open map.html in Firefox. Everything should just work. (I discovered this through experimentation... It appears to work but I don't know if it's what the original author intended.) To get map.css and util.js, you can run these commands from the same directory as the one that contains map.html, or just right-click on the links in Firefox and hit save as): wget http://osmtools.de/easymap/temp/map.css wget http://osmtools.de/easymap/temp/util.js OSM Slippy Map generator is a cool little utility! I'm glad to find out about it. Hope development continues. - Scott On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 5:32 AM, Valent Turkovic wrote: > This looks fabulous! I just can't figure out how to make permanent > maps. I created a temporary preview map but that links expired quite > soon :( > > How to make permanent custom map links? > > Cheers! > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 10:31 AM, Frederik Ramm > wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Tom Hughes wrote: > >> So somebody just needs to write a similar wizard type site then > >> generates an OpenLayers page instead of Flash... > > > > There is something approaching this on > > > > http://osmtools.de/easymap/index.php?lang=en&page=editor > > > > - you click a few buttons and get a HTML file that contains a basic > > OpenLayers map made to your specification. > > > > The site is run is done by Sebastian Hohmann . > > > > Bye > > Frederik > > > > ___ > > talk mailing list > > talk@openstreetmap.org > > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > > > > > -- > http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ > linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless > registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. > ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SotM talk - Stats on user churn - Slides?
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 04:56:17PM +0200, Florian Lohoff wrote: > Hi, > > there was a talk on SotM which besides other interesting things > had numbers on user churn, aktivity and other stuff. I cant remember > who was talking but i'd be interested in the slides. Are they > online somewhere? Got it - Saturday Keynote by Steve ... Thanks ... Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@rfc822.org Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither - Benjamin Franklin signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SotM talk - Stats on user churn - Slides?
All the presentations and videos are linked from http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_Of_The_Map_2009 if they are available. (If anyone hasn't added theirs, please do so). Shaun On 29 Jul 2009, at 15:56, Florian Lohoff wrote: Hi, there was a talk on SotM which besides other interesting things had numbers on user churn, aktivity and other stuff. I cant remember who was talking but i'd be interested in the slides. Are they online somewhere? Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@rfc822.org Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither - Benjamin Franklin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] SotM talk - Stats on user churn - Slides?
Hi, there was a talk on SotM which besides other interesting things had numbers on user churn, aktivity and other stuff. I cant remember who was talking but i'd be interested in the slides. Are they online somewhere? Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@rfc822.org Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither - Benjamin Franklin signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Custom OpenStreetMaps ?
This looks fabulous! I just can't figure out how to make permanent maps. I created a temporary preview map but that links expired quite soon :( How to make permanent custom map links? Cheers! On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 10:31 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote: > Hi, > > Tom Hughes wrote: >> So somebody just needs to write a similar wizard type site then >> generates an OpenLayers page instead of Flash... > > There is something approaching this on > > http://osmtools.de/easymap/index.php?lang=en&page=editor > > - you click a few buttons and get a HTML file that contains a basic > OpenLayers map made to your specification. > > The site is run is done by Sebastian Hohmann . > > Bye > Frederik > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Business listings
On 29/07/2009, at 5:45 AM, Jack Stringer wrote: > Should we be charging to upgrade businesses details on OSM? > > I think it should be free. You could pay OSM to have a OSM member put > all the details onto the map for them, saving them signing up etc. But > I would not like to see charging being the norm. Only because OSM > exists as a free map service, the same I believe should go for the > Business data on it. I'd say it depends on what you are charging them for. I can't imagine we (as a community) would be happy with someone using OSM to scam money out of people, but there are ways to get money from businesses that I think would be fine. I know a lot of restaurants (and other businesses) that have *really* bad maps on their websites. What if you charged them a fair amount of money to put their business' location in OSM, give them the HTML needed to put an OSM-based map on their site, and went and checked the streetnames and landmarks in their area? You get paid, they get a map that people can actually find their business off, and OSM gets better data. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] is_in and similar tags
> > Could someone[1] setup a web-service where you send it a lat/lon and > > it returns a list of all boundaries that point is within? So just one > > website imports the boundary data instead of everyone having to know > > how to do the 'is within' search[2]. > > I think you might be able to do this with > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Server_Side_Script Yes. To appeal to [1], replace in the URL (in one line) http://78.46.81.38/api/interpreter?data=%3Ccoord- query%20lat=%2251.0%22%20lon=%227.0%22/%3E%3Cprint%20mode=%22body%22/%3E the values 51.0 (latitude) and 7.0 (longitude) by the respective values. Then save the file to disk and you receive an OSM-alike file with the areas that cover the given location. Another, maybe more convenient way would be (command line in one line) wget -O - --post-data="" http://78.46.81.38/api/interpreter | gunzip The details are explained at http://78.46.81.38/#section.reverse_gazetteer Cheers, Roland ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] maxheight/height
On 07/28/2009 11:45 AM, Christoph Böhme wrote: > According to Wikipedia "clearance" [1] is the free space between a > vehicle and the structure (i.e. bridge) it is passing through. The > maximum height (and width) of the vehicle is -- at least for railways -- > called "loading gauge" [2] while the dimensions of the structure are > called "structure gauge [3]. Thus, what we find on signs is the loading > gauge. It may also be worth mentioning that there's another meaning of "clearance" when referring to vehicles: that of the free space beneath a vehicle (ground clearance). So it would seem that "clearance" always refers to "free space below" -- meaning that it's the bridge's clearance that is marked. This does not contradict that it is also the loading gauge of the vehicles passing underneath it... -Alex Mauer "hawke" signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] maxheight/height
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 4:42 PM, Mark Williams wrote: > > Therefore maxheight is a property of the way going under the bridge, > possibly >1 way if the road is fragmented in OSM, and ought to be on the > whole road from where the sign is until after the bridge. Yup, that seems to be the consensus. And when there is no sign? I would suggest tagging only the part of the way that is physically restricted, i.e. physically under the bridge. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
