Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 07:29:51PM +0100, David Earl wrote: [snip much that I agree with] OSM's instance of Mapnik might own not just the tiles, but the page in which they are showcased as well. Likewise Potlatch, likewise Osmarender, likewise namefinder gazetteer. But we provide a starting point to look at them. As a side note, I hear more often nowadays that osma and [EMAIL PROTECTED] are not OSM projects (whatever that implies :-)). This used to be different 1-2 years ago. According to that, osmarender ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) is indeed just as much derived as the cyclemap. spaetz ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org (Roman Neumüller)
...and maybe a small crosshair just in the middle of the map-window to indicate the exact lat/long... ;-) For me: right click at a spot in the map should pop up some info about that location (e.g. tags and values, lat/long, cafés nearby, copy location as a GPS coord, copy it as a URL, you name it...). Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org (Roman Neumüller)
On 14 Oct 2008, at 20:42, Stefan Monnier wrote: ...and maybe a small crosshair just in the middle of the map-window to indicate the exact lat/long... ;-) For me: right click at a spot in the map should pop up some info about that location (e.g. tags and values, lat/long, cafés nearby, copy location as a GPS coord, copy it as a URL, you name it...). Um don't you mean the data browser? Click the little blue plus in the top right, and click data. For cafes near lat lon, you can use the search box with the search: cafes near 51.517,-0.267 Of course you should use your own lat, lon. You could always put what you are looking for on your own site, and then bingo you have a map doing exactly what you want. This is the whole idea of osm. Shaun ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 3:06 PM, Jonathan Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Got a printed UK Road Map? Open it to any page -- where are the coordinates? Which is *extremely* annoying when you have a GPS and a printed UK road map and are trying to find out where you are... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
SteveC [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 10 Oct 2008, at 23:37, Matthias Julius wrote: SteveC [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm all for lat/lng to be a user-enabled display option, but it's delusional to think that most people on the planet care and I personally want most people on the planet using our maps. And I don't think that most people on the planet mind a set of small numbers in a corner of the map even if they don't know what they mean. If they show N, S, E and W instead of negative coordinates it will even be more clear to people what it is. You're being totally bonkers. I've said I agree that it could be a user option but you're suggesting that we should do what no mainstream mapping site has ever done - by default have lat/lng shown as changing figures on the map. All because you think it would be nice. Please try harder. We have 1.2 billion things to improve on, and this is really not high up on that list. Hey, relax! I am not trying to impose any priorities on your or anyone's list. I was just trying to say that while an optional coordinate display would be great it would not hurt to have this permanent until user options are implemented for the map. And it would be realively easy to turn on in OpenLayers. And there are other things OSM is doing that no mainstream mapping site has ever done. So, this argument does not count in my view. I actually consider it a good thing to have a feature that nobody else has and that is useful to at least some people. Matthias ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
spaetz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 08:51:37AM +0100, Richard Fairhurst wrote: OSM is about encouraging an ecosystem, not just cramming everything onto openstreetmap.org. Last time people wrote about the OSM homepage they complained (including me) that the homepage was too convoluted and side bars etc were taking up valuable space. Now it seems, it's ok to add just that little one thing here and there in a corner. I want the map as clear as possible. If there is a setting for logged in users, perfect. But I know that I am fleeing to informationfreeway (or http://server.tah.openstreetmap.org/Browse/slippy/) rather than using osm.org because I want just a map. And informationfreeway is even displaying Lat/Lon ... People can add their own stuff with a line of code and create openlatlonmap.org without problems already now. Of course, sitting up you own slippy map is easier than setting up Windows, almost anybody can do that. But a bunch of people each settign up their own map that implements the feature they care most about is not a very user friendly solution, either. Maybe there should be a 'simple' and an 'advanced' map? Matthias ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
Hi, Of course, sitting up you own slippy map is easier than setting up Windows, almost anybody can do that. But a bunch of people each settign up their own map that implements the feature they care most about is not a very user friendly solution, either. This is something I constantly preach on talk-de: We aim to be the geodatabase to end all geodatabases. Not the web mapping platform to end all web mapping platforms. Everyone has different preferences, but it is just about conceivable that all of us together build a giant database with which everybody is more or less happy. - On the other hand, it would be absolutely impossible to create the web map that everybody likes. And we don't have to! We are NOT a web map. As soon as we're popular enough any many people have set up map displays of one kind or another, we just kill the www.openstreetmap.org map display and just do API. We don't need revenue, visits, user counters, advertising click-throughs on www.openstreetmap.org. As RichardF pointed out: Let us *encourage* people to make their own cool web map from our data instead of trying to impose one view onto all! This capability is one thing that sets us apart from the others. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
Ian Dees [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Matthias Julius [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Maybe there should be a 'simple' and an 'advanced' map? There is: Simple: http://openstreetmap.org/ Advanced: http://informationfreeway.org/ Well, *I* know that, but which visitor to openstreetmap.org does? There needs to be a somewhat obvious way to get from there to the advanced map, IMHO. Matthias ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
Frederik Ramm [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is something I constantly preach on talk-de: We aim to be the geodatabase to end all geodatabases. Not the web mapping platform to end all web mapping platforms. Yes, I know you and others have pointed that out many times. And others have noted that the name of the project and the wiki start page do not suggest that the project is only about collecting data. Everyone has different preferences, but it is just about conceivable that all of us together build a giant database with which everybody is more or less happy. - On the other hand, it would be absolutely impossible to create the web map that everybody likes. And the same is true for other aspects of the project. And we don't have to! We are NOT a web map. As soon as we're popular enough any many people have set up map displays of one kind or another, we just kill the www.openstreetmap.org map display and just do API. We don't need revenue, visits, user counters, advertising click-throughs on www.openstreetmap.org. As RichardF pointed out: Let us *encourage* people to make their own cool web map from our data instead of trying to impose one view onto all! This capability is one thing that sets us apart from the others. Encouraging people to make their own map does not necessarily mean that OSM can not have its own version of a cool web map. As long as there are people within OSM who are willing to maintain it I see nothing wrong with that. I agree that we don't need web hits or revenue, but a good map is the best showcase for the project I can think of. Why rely on others to provide that? IMHO not the API needs to be popular but a cool map to promote OSM to a broad public. The bare data is only for a very small number of people of interest. Matthias ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org (Roman Neumüller)
I agree with Matthias - if it was something to vote on I gave a (+) - you don't need to see the damn paypal link on a besides inputbox for searching useless sidebar when being a user who uses osm every day... And I would like to see lat/long too of course... Additionally I'd like a small inputbox to write lat/long into - it's otherwise annoyingly difficult to replace lat/long in the addressbar... ...and maybe a small crosshair just in the middle of the map-window to indicate the exact lat/long... ;-) something left? Don't know for now... Roman ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 7:29 PM, David Earl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 13/10/2008 18:24, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, Of course, sitting up you own slippy map is easier than setting up Windows, almost anybody can do that. But a bunch of people each settign up their own map that implements the feature they care most about is not a very user friendly solution, either. This is something I constantly preach on talk-de: We aim to be the geodatabase to end all geodatabases. Not the web mapping platform to end all web mapping platforms. Everyone has different preferences, but it is just about conceivable that all of us together build a giant database with which everybody is more or less happy. - On the other hand, it would be absolutely impossible to create the web map that everybody likes. And we don't have to! We are NOT a web map. As soon as we're popular enough any many people have set up map displays of one kind or another, we just kill the www.openstreetmap.org map display and just do API. We don't need revenue, visits, user counters, advertising click-throughs on www.openstreetmap.org. As RichardF pointed out: Let us *encourage* people to make their own cool web map from our data instead of trying to impose one view onto all! This capability is one thing that sets us apart from the others. We're not at that point yet though. And even if we were, it's much easier to find openstreetmap than all its derivative projects. I've always been a bit troubled by the inequity that is given to Mapnik by the openstreetmap home page. In general people should be able to make up their own mind between osmarender, cyclemap, mapnik and others. These are examples of derivative projects. So is Potlatch for that matter. So is informationfreeway. OTOH, the pictorial map gives the project a much more concrete feel. The idea of abstract data is really hard for most people to grasp. Perhaps, therefore, the home page should be more of an introduction to the project with an index to applications using it. It needn't be as bald as that in how it is presented, and the slippy maps can be prominent. For people what it means is the pictorial map is one level down, even though it may actually be hosted on another site. Or not. I presume you mean similar to some of the national sites people have set up? ie. www.openstreetmap.de / ca for what I reckon are the better ones. I particularly like the Showcase section on the german site (see south african site at org.za for at least a partial translation). Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 07:24:01PM +0200, Frederik Ramm wrote: This is something I constantly preach on talk-de: We aim to be the geodatabase to end all geodatabases. I’d much rather it be the geodatabase to encourage more (free) geodatabases, but that could just be me. Simon, not aiming to rule the world, honest. -- A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works.—John Gall signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
SteveC [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm all for lat/lng to be a user-enabled display option, but it's delusional to think that most people on the planet care and I personally want most people on the planet using our maps. And I don't think that most people on the planet mind a set of small numbers in a corner of the map even if they don't know what they mean. If they show N, S, E and W instead of negative coordinates it will even be more clear to people what it is. I could imagine that a significant sub-set of users are interested in this, especially of those users that care about OSM right now. Why not do something different that OS, Google and Co.? Matthias ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
On 10 Oct 2008, at 23:37, Matthias Julius wrote: SteveC [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm all for lat/lng to be a user-enabled display option, but it's delusional to think that most people on the planet care and I personally want most people on the planet using our maps. And I don't think that most people on the planet mind a set of small numbers in a corner of the map even if they don't know what they mean. If they show N, S, E and W instead of negative coordinates it will even be more clear to people what it is. You're being totally bonkers. I've said I agree that it could be a user option but you're suggesting that we should do what no mainstream mapping site has ever done - by default have lat/lng shown as changing figures on the map. All because you think it would be nice. Please try harder. We have 1.2 billion things to improve on, and this is really not high up on that list. Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
Matthias Julius wrote: I could imagine that a significant sub-set of users are interested in this, especially of those users that care about OSM right now. Why not do something different that OS, Google and Co.? Absolutely - do something different. But make the most of the freedom - do it elsewhere. Set up your own map site using OSM tiles/data. Put co-ordinates on it. Put some tools for measuring distances. Go the whole hog. Make it a map site for experts. OSM is about encouraging an ecosystem, not just cramming everything onto openstreetmap.org. cheers Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 08:51:37AM +0100, Richard Fairhurst wrote: OSM is about encouraging an ecosystem, not just cramming everything onto openstreetmap.org. Last time people wrote about the OSM homepage they complained (including me) that the homepage was too convoluted and side bars etc were taking up valuable space. Now it seems, it's ok to add just that little one thing here and there in a corner. I want the map as clear as possible. If there is a setting for logged in users, perfect. But I know that I am fleeing to informationfreeway (or http://server.tah.openstreetmap.org/Browse/slippy/) rather than using osm.org because I want just a map. People can add their own stuff with a line of code and create openlatlonmap.org without problems already now. spaetz ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
elvin ibbotson wrote: Steve, It looks like fakeSteveC or someone is pretending to be you and posting elitist, patronising, condescending rubbish in an apparent attempt to make you look foolish. I look forward to it being demonstrated that 'most people don't know what coordinates are'. elvin ibbotson Most people is not: Most people on this mailing list Most people who contribute to OSM Most people involved in GIS Most people who know some programming Most people is the man, woman or child in the street, many of whom will never have picked up a paper map, and will certainly never have tried to take coordinates from one. Got a printed UK Road Map? Open it to any page -- where are the coordinates? -- Jonathan (Jonobennett) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
On 10 Oct 2008, at 15:06, Jonathan Bennett wrote: elvin ibbotson wrote: Steve, It looks like fakeSteveC or someone is pretending to be you and posting elitist, patronising, condescending rubbish in an apparent attempt to make you look foolish. I look forward to it being demonstrated that 'most people don't know what coordinates are'. elvin ibbotson Most people is not: Most people on this mailing list Most people who contribute to OSM Most people involved in GIS Most people who know some programming Most people is the man, woman or child in the street, many of whom will never have picked up a paper map, and will certainly never have tried to take coordinates from one. Got a printed UK Road Map? Open it to any page -- where are the coordinates? -- Jonathan (Jonobennett) Coordinates have been around a lot longer than OSM, GIS or programming. people learn about them at school where they are taught mathematics and geography. Most people go (or went) to school. Besides, this is the OSM talk forum and we are talking about people who have taken the trouble to go to the OSM website. Also we are talking about 'most people' not 'many' people. Finally, I reached for the nearest road atlas which happens to be the Ordnance Survey one and has not just the A,B,C/1,2,3 page coordinates used by the gazetteer at the back but British National Grid coordinates too! Some pages also show the scale, though I imagine this will be lost on most of the ignorant masses:-) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 8:06 AM, Jonathan Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: elvin ibbotson wrote: Steve, It looks like fakeSteveC or someone is pretending to be you and posting elitist, patronising, condescending rubbish in an apparent attempt to make you look foolish. I look forward to it being demonstrated that 'most people don't know what coordinates are'. elvin ibbotson Most people is not: Most people on this mailing list Most people who contribute to OSM Most people involved in GIS Most people who know some programming Most people is the man, woman or child in the street, many of whom will never have picked up a paper map, and will certainly never have tried to take coordinates from one. And the set of most people could be expanded if the statement is most people don't know what coordinate _SYSTEMS_ are. It's a safe best that most people have heard of lat/long even if they don't know latitude from longitude - but the set of people who know the difference between WGS84 and UTM. Sorry for jumping in without context... -Eric -=--=---===---=--=-=--=---==---=--=-=- Eric B. Wolf 720-209-6818 USGS Geographer Center of Excellence in GIScience PhD Student CU-Boulder - Geography ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
I think the fact that several people presented more or less fiddly ways to obtain coordinates from the OSM map shows that there is at least some need to have a coordinate display feature for www.openstreetmap.org. I don't see that coordinates inserted below Permalink (as in Frederik's example) or in any of the other corners clutter the map to an unacceptable degree. Coordinate display could also be switched on/off via the layers dialog -- people who are scared off by coordinates won't open it, would they? Juan Lucas Dominguez Rubio's suggestion to display coordinates when the mouse pointer lingers for some seconds at the same spot is maybe even more elegant. I also suspect that with GPS chips in many cell phones etc., one or the other user who does not know what coordinates are might try to figure it out ... with his/her old schoolbooks + openstreetmap maybe ;-) Cheers, Ulf On Fri, 2008-10-10 at 09:44 -0600, Eric Wolf wrote: On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 8:06 AM, Jonathan Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: elvin ibbotson wrote: Steve, It looks like fakeSteveC or someone is pretending to be you and posting elitist, patronising, condescending rubbish in an apparent attempt to make you look foolish. I look forward to it being demonstrated that 'most people don't know what coordinates are'. elvin ibbotson Most people is not: Most people on this mailing list Most people who contribute to OSM Most people involved in GIS Most people who know some programming Most people is the man, woman or child in the street, many of whom will never have picked up a paper map, and will certainly never have tried to take coordinates from one. And the set of most people could be expanded if the statement is most people don't know what coordinate _SYSTEMS_ are. It's a safe best that most people have heard of lat/long even if they don't know latitude from longitude - but the set of people who know the difference between WGS84 and UTM. Sorry for jumping in without context... -Eric -=--=---===---=--=-=--=---==---=--=-=- Eric B. Wolf 720-209-6818 USGS Geographer Center of Excellence in GIScience PhD Student CU-Boulder - Geography ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Ulf Mehlig[EMAIL PROTECTED] --- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
In your letter dated Thu, 09 Oct 2008 12:53:11 +0100 you wrote:
Philip Homburg wrote:
In your letter dated Wed, 8 Oct 2008 17:18:16 +0100 you wrote:
You need to set the displayProjection parameter on the control to get
it to give you lat/lons.
eg: map.addControl(new
OpenLayers.Control.MousePosition({displayProjection:
map.getProjectionObject()}));
That code doesn't seem to make a difference.
That's because displayProjection wasn't set on our map (it is now) plus
that code is wrong because it sets the displayProjection on the control
to the projection of the map, not it's display projection.
There doesn't seem to be any difference.
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Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
Hi, Ulf Mehlig wrote: Coordinate display could also be switched on/off via the layers dialog -- people who are scared off by coordinates won't open it, would they? Juan Lucas Dominguez Rubio's suggestion to display coordinates when the mouse pointer lingers for some seconds at the same spot is maybe even more elegant. Since we have user management anyway, we could also just have a user preference that says with or without coordinates. Anonymous surfers would get the map without, logged-in members would see what they prefer. I think those that desperately want coordinates should simply go ahead and implement one of these options. As long as you don't clutter the map for those not interested, I don't see that such a change would be rejected. OSM is a self-service project ;-) Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
Frederik Ramm [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Since we have user management anyway, we could also just have a user preference that says with or without coordinates. Anonymous surfers would get the map without, logged-in members would see what they prefer. I don't think requiring users to create a login to get coordinates displayed is a good idea. I would prefer having this as an option in the layers pulldown or some such. If it needs to be persistant it can be stored in a cookie. Anyway, I also don't think having a permanent coordinate display below the permalink is too intrusive. Matthias ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
Jonathan Bennett wrote: elvin ibbotson wrote: Steve, It looks like fakeSteveC or someone is pretending to be you and posting elitist, patronising, condescending rubbish in an apparent attempt to make you look foolish. I look forward to it being demonstrated that 'most people don't know what coordinates are'. elvin ibbotson Most people is not: Most people on this mailing list Most people who contribute to OSM Most people involved in GIS Most people who know some programming Most people is the man, woman or child in the street, many of whom will never have picked up a paper map, and will certainly never have tried to take coordinates from one. Got a printed UK Road Map? Open it to any page -- where are the coordinates? You mean you want to have the site tailored for most people who will never use it?? or for the people who do? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
On 10 Oct 2008, at 07:06, Jonathan Bennett wrote: elvin ibbotson wrote: Steve, It looks like fakeSteveC or someone is pretending to be you and posting elitist, patronising, condescending rubbish in an apparent attempt to I'll take elitism over populism or relativism. See: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg03352.html make you look foolish. I look forward to it being demonstrated that 'most people don't know what coordinates are'. elvin ibbotson Most people is not: Most people on this mailing list Most people who contribute to OSM Most people involved in GIS Most people who know some programming Most people is the man, woman or child in the street, many of whom will never have picked up a paper map, and will certainly never have tried to take coordinates from one. Got a printed UK Road Map? Open it to any page -- where are the coordinates? +1 I'm all for lat/lng to be a user-enabled display option, but it's delusional to think that most people on the planet care and I personally want most people on the planet using our maps. Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
Philip Homburg wrote:
In your letter dated Wed, 8 Oct 2008 17:18:16 +0100 you wrote:
You need to set the displayProjection parameter on the control to get
it to give you lat/lons.
eg: map.addControl(new
OpenLayers.Control.MousePosition({displayProjection:
map.getProjectionObject()}));
That code doesn't seem to make a difference.
That's because displayProjection wasn't set on our map (it is now) plus
that code is wrong because it sets the displayProjection on the control
to the projection of the map, not it's display projection.
In fact if displayProjection is set on the map then it is automatically
set on the control when you add it, so if you update then your original
code will work.
Tom
--
Tom Hughes ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
http://www.compton.nu/
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Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
2008/10/7 Philip Homburg [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I myself dont have a clear opinion on whether the coordinates should be there or not. Perhaps an intermediate decision: the coordinates would appear if the mouse keeps still for 2 seconds. Interesting. It was trivial to get the coordiantes to display properly on my own maps. See for example, http://stereo.hq.phicoh.net/biking/maps/2008-06-13.shtml But getting it to work on the a copy of the main OSM html seems to require a lot more hacking. The OSM homepage keeps up to date with OpenLayers, putting the coord display will be fairly trivial. The most difficult part will probably deciding where to put them so they don't annoy those who do not wish to use them. -- Regards, Thomas Wood (Edgemaster) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
Thomas Wood wrote: The OSM homepage keeps up to date with OpenLayers, putting the coord display will be fairly trivial. The most difficult part will probably deciding where to put them so they don't annoy those who do not wish to use them. Adding them is trivial, but it hasn't been done because the benefit is minimal compared to the downside of having yet more stuff obscuring the map. Tom -- Tom Hughes ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
In your letter dated Wed, 8 Oct 2008 15:29:14 +0100 you wrote: The OSM homepage keeps up to date with OpenLayers, putting the coord display will be fairly trivial. The most difficult part will probably deciding where to put them so they don't annoy those who do not wish to use them. It didn't work for me. I tried adding 'map.addControl(new OpenLayers.Control.MousePosition());' to a copy of the www.openstreetmap.org main page. See http://stereo.hq.phicoh.net/maps/osm/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
80n wrote: I knew about latitude and longitude about 25 years before hyperlinks were even invented, let alone permalinks. I didn't think you were *that* old... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_hypertext_technology -- Jonathan (Jonobennett) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
2008/10/8 Philip Homburg [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
In your letter dated Wed, 8 Oct 2008 15:29:14 +0100 you wrote:
The OSM homepage keeps up to date with OpenLayers, putting the coord
display will be fairly trivial. The most difficult part will probably
deciding where to put them so they don't annoy those who do not wish
to use them.
It didn't work for me.
I tried adding 'map.addControl(new OpenLayers.Control.MousePosition());'
to a copy of the www.openstreetmap.org main page. See
http://stereo.hq.phicoh.net/maps/osm/
You need to set the displayProjection parameter on the control to get
it to give you lat/lons.
eg: map.addControl(new
OpenLayers.Control.MousePosition({displayProjection:
map.getProjectionObject()}));
--
Regards,
Thomas Wood
(Edgemaster)
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Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
Hi, I think the word 'usable' is being used in a strange way. When someone says 'adding the coordinates makes the map less usable' they mean 'Many people don't know what that funny number means and when people see something they don't understand, they feel unconfortable, so they are unlikely to visit this website again'. I myself dont have a clear opinion on whether the coordinates should be there or not. Perhaps an intermediate decision: the coordinates would appear if the mouse keeps still for 2 seconds. Apart from this, I'd like to congratulate the person who has taken the time to transform Spherical Mercator coordinates to longitude and latitude (bottom right corner in http://www.informationfreeway.org). I think that person should be asked to redesign the scale bar in http://www.openstreetmap.org) And a question: nobody showed the difference between the Cape Town map on OSM and on Google Maps in the FOSS4G conference? cheers Lucas De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] en nombre de elvin ibbotson Enviado el: mar 07/10/2008 9:28 Para: Steve Coast CC: Talk Openstreetmap Asunto: Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org From: SteveC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2 October 2008 22:51:14 BDT To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org http://www.openstreetmap.org/ On 1 Oct 2008, at 11:01, Ulf Mehlig wrote: Hello Frederik, thanks for your answer. The coordinate display at www.informationfreeway.org is what I was looking for. Wouldn't it be possible to integrate this function into the main OpenStreetMap site? I think this would definitely improve the attractiveness of the map display (even more, if degree-minute-second based coordinates would appear, too -- for many people, the decimal coordinates are not what they're used to). Just demonstrably not true. Most people don't know what co-ordinates are or care that they don't know. It would just clutter the map and make us look less usable. Best Steve, It looks like fakeSteveC or someone is pretending to be you and posting elitist, patronising, condescending rubbish in an apparent attempt to make you look foolish. I look forward to it being demonstrated that 'most people don't know what coordinates are'. elvin ibbotson ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 10:05 AM, Juan Lucas Dominguez Rubio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I think the word 'usable' is being used in a strange way. When someone says 'adding the coordinates makes the map less usable' they mean 'Many people don't know what that funny number means and when people see something they don't understand, they feel unconfortable, so they are unlikely to visit this website again'. 'Usability' is an HCI term. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usability In this context user confusion (and clutter) would tend to count against usability. Obviously other factors apply. And whether a particular feature makes a significant impact on the usability of a site is a different matter to whether it is itself usable. Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
Thanks, Frederik and Steve! I see Steve's point; especially coordinates at map borders within the browser window would most probably not enhance map display. However, a nice coordinate display like Frederik's wouldn't hurt, would it ;-) Many thanks for the java script example. In respect to map *export* I still think that an option to create map borders with coordinates would be helpful. I did not find anything especially helpful in respect to rendering of map borders in mapnik/osmarender documentation. Can anybody give me a hint where to look, or an example how to render an OSM-based map with such borders? Thanks again, Ulf On Fri, 2008-10-03 at 02:40 +0200, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, SteveC wrote: Just demonstrably not true. Most people don't know what co-ordinates are or care that they don't know. It would just clutter the map and make us look less usable. The good thing about OSM is that we don't have to go for one or the other; we can have both. Ulf, with just a little bit of Javascript you can create your own version of an OpenStreetMap map, just like informationfreeway.org, and modify it to your heart's content. Here is an example that displays the mouse position in degrees, minutes, and seconds: http://www.remote.org/frederik/tmp/degrees.html (This was a bit nasty as the OpenLayers version currently used by informationfreeway, from which I simply copied the page, does not support easy overriding of the coordinate display; newer OpenLayers versions would only require 10 lines of code instead of the 30 lines or so I had to put in here.) Steve is right in saying that the general public doesn't know their latitude from their longitude and has no desire to be educated on this; but of course this does not keep us from making alternative OpenStreetMap pages aimed at people who do. Bye Frederik -- Ulf Mehlig[EMAIL PROTECTED] --- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
Ulf Mehlig ulf.mehlig at gmx.net writes: Thanks, Frederik and Steve! I see Steve's point; especially coordinates at map borders within the browser window would most probably not enhance map display. However, a nice coordinate display like Frederik's wouldn't hurt, would it Many thanks for the java script example. In respect to map *export* I still think that an option to create map borders with coordinates would be helpful. I did not find anything especially helpful in respect to rendering of map borders in mapnik/osmarender documentation. Can anybody give me a hint where to look, or an example how to render an OSM-based map with such borders? +1 for corner coordinates, and there might be also an option to get coordinates in the same projection and units than the map is having natively, that is, spherical mercator. Coordinates could be used for georeferencing the map. Image with world file in a Kosmos way would do as well, or output in GeoTIFF format. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
SteveC steve at asklater.com writes: On 1 Oct 2008, at 11:01, Ulf Mehlig wrote: Hello Frederik, thanks for your answer. The coordinate display at www.informationfreeway.org is what I was looking for. Wouldn't it be possible to integrate this function into the main OpenStreetMap site? I think this would definitely improve the attractiveness of the map display (even more, if degree-minute-second based coordinates would appear, too -- for many people, the decimal coordinates are not what they're used to). Just demonstrably not true. Most people don't know what co-ordinates are or care that they don't know. It would just clutter the map and make us look less usable. I could well imagine that there are people who would like to feed the coordinates of some place they have found from the OSM map into their GPS for navigating. Not that the coordinates need to be visible all the time. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
On 3 Oct 2008, at 07:06, Jukka Rahkonen wrote: SteveC steve at asklater.com writes: On 1 Oct 2008, at 11:01, Ulf Mehlig wrote: Hello Frederik, thanks for your answer. The coordinate display at www.informationfreeway.org is what I was looking for. Wouldn't it be possible to integrate this function into the main OpenStreetMap site? I think this would definitely improve the attractiveness of the map display (even more, if degree-minute-second based coordinates would appear, too -- for many people, the decimal coordinates are not what they're used to). Just demonstrably not true. Most people don't know what co-ordinates are or care that they don't know. It would just clutter the map and make us look less usable. I could well imagine that there are people who would like to feed the coordinates of some place they have found from the OSM map into their GPS for navigating. Not that the coordinates need to be visible all the time. For that you can use the permalink to get the latitude and longitude. That's what I do on a regular basis. By the time you know what latitude and longitude is, you will know what a permalink is. Shaun smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 11:12 AM, Shaun McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: On 3 Oct 2008, at 07:06, Jukka Rahkonen wrote: SteveC steve at asklater.com writes: On 1 Oct 2008, at 11:01, Ulf Mehlig wrote: Hello Frederik, thanks for your answer. The coordinate display at www.informationfreeway.org is what I was looking for. Wouldn't it be possible to integrate this function into the main OpenStreetMap site? I think this would definitely improve the attractiveness of the map display (even more, if degree-minute-second based coordinates would appear, too -- for many people, the decimal coordinates are not what they're used to). Just demonstrably not true. Most people don't know what co-ordinates are or care that they don't know. It would just clutter the map and make us look less usable. I could well imagine that there are people who would like to feed the coordinates of some place they have found from the OSM map into their GPS for navigating. Not that the coordinates need to be visible all the time. For that you can use the permalink to get the latitude and longitude. That's what I do on a regular basis. By the time you know what latitude and longitude is, you will know what a permalink is. I knew about latitude and longitude about 25 years before hyperlinks were even invented, let alone permalinks. Although I'm slightly suprised by the fact that google has roughly twice as many hits for permalink than for longitude. 80n Shaun ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
On 1 Oct 2008, at 11:01, Ulf Mehlig wrote: Hello Frederik, thanks for your answer. The coordinate display at www.informationfreeway.org is what I was looking for. Wouldn't it be possible to integrate this function into the main OpenStreetMap site? I think this would definitely improve the attractiveness of the map display (even more, if degree-minute-second based coordinates would appear, too -- for many people, the decimal coordinates are not what they're used to). Just demonstrably not true. Most people don't know what co-ordinates are or care that they don't know. It would just clutter the map and make us look less usable. Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
Hi, SteveC wrote: Just demonstrably not true. Most people don't know what co-ordinates are or care that they don't know. It would just clutter the map and make us look less usable. The good thing about OSM is that we don't have to go for one or the other; we can have both. Ulf, with just a little bit of Javascript you can create your own version of an OpenStreetMap map, just like informationfreeway.org, and modify it to your heart's content. Here is an example that displays the mouse position in degrees, minutes, and seconds: http://www.remote.org/frederik/tmp/degrees.html (This was a bit nasty as the OpenLayers version currently used by informationfreeway, from which I simply copied the page, does not support easy overriding of the coordinate display; newer OpenLayers versions would only require 10 lines of code instead of the 30 lines or so I had to put in here.) Steve is right in saying that the general public doesn't know their latitude from their longitude and has no desire to be educated on this; but of course this does not keep us from making alternative OpenStreetMap pages aimed at people who do. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
You apparently can do the borders: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Browsing --- The URL form shown above will produce a map centred on the specified latitude and longitude. It is also possible to get a map that displays everything within a given bounding box: http://www.openstreetmap.org/index.html?minlat=[Min Latitude]maxlat=[Max Latitude]minlon=[Min Longitude]maxlon=[Max Longitude]layers=[Layer code] --- Simon I miss two things when I visit the OpenStreetMap website map display: * a possibility to determine the coordinates of the mouse pointer (decimal or degree-min-sec or both) or a get-coordinates-by-click facility * map borders with coordinates The map borders would be even more important for map export. Is this something that could be realised? Many thanks! Ulf -- Ulf Mehlig[EMAIL PROTECTED] --- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
Hi, * a possibility to determine the coordinates of the mouse pointer (decimal or degree-min-sec or both) or a What you can always do is go to the export tab and select the select a different area... option, then draw a rectangle and read its extent from the four text boxes provided. You can also use www.informationfreeway.org which gives you the mouse pointer lat/lon in the bottom right corner. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
Frederik Ramm wrote: You can also use www.informationfreeway.org which gives you the mouse pointer lat/lon in the bottom right corner. Or (magic keypress alert) you can click 'Edit' to open Potlatch, move your pointer to the right place, and press L. cheers Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
Thank you, Simon. I'm not sure whether we correctly understood each other; I might have been too brief in my previous email. I am less interested in somehow finding out about the coordinates limiting the current section of the map I'm viewing but in having the coordinates *displayed* on screen while panning and zooming, and I would like to have them included in the exported maps. For many printed maps (possibly derived from exported OSM data) such borders are necessary or at least helpful (well, maybe not in the centre of some larger city). The mouse pointer coordinates would just be helpful to quickly check geographic positions. Thanks again, Ulf On Wed, 2008-10-01 at 11:40 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You apparently can do the borders: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Browsing --- The URL form shown above will produce a map centred on the specified latitude and longitude. It is also possible to get a map that displays everything within a given bounding box: http://www.openstreetmap.org/index.html?minlat=[Min Latitude]maxlat=[Max Latitude]minlon=[Min Longitude]maxlon=[Max Longitude]layers=[Layer code] --- Simon I miss two things when I visit the OpenStreetMap website map display: * a possibility to determine the coordinates of the mouse pointer (decimal or degree-min-sec or both) or a get-coordinates-by-click facility * map borders with coordinates The map borders would be even more important for map export. Is this something that could be realised? Many thanks! Ulf -- Ulf Mehlig[EMAIL PROTECTED] --- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Ulf Mehlig[EMAIL PROTECTED] --- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
* a possibility to determine the coordinates of the mouse pointer (decimal or degree-min-sec or both) or a get-coordinates-by-click facility It appears that openlayers can do this too http://openlayers.org/dev/examples/mouse-position.html So it could be implemented on your own slippy map and maybe the OpenStreetMap guys would be OK with doing this too, but I can't speak for them. Simon. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] map display www.openstreetmap.org
Hello Frederik, thanks for your answer. The coordinate display at www.informationfreeway.org is what I was looking for. Wouldn't it be possible to integrate this function into the main OpenStreetMap site? I think this would definitely improve the attractiveness of the map display (even more, if degree-minute-second based coordinates would appear, too -- for many people, the decimal coordinates are not what they're used to). In respect to the select different area technique etc.: While any true OSM enthusiast is of course able to help him/herself with tricks like this, I observed that it is rather difficult this way to convince not primarily technically interested people to give OSM a try. I am of course aware of the fact that OSM is a geographic data collection project and no nice-map-display-site but a really great map display/export facility on the main site would make it IMHO so much easier to make people use it and then join it :-) Thanks again, Ulf On Wed, 2008-10-01 at 18:23 +0200, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, * a possibility to determine the coordinates of the mouse pointer (decimal or degree-min-sec or both) or a What you can always do is go to the export tab and select the select a different area... option, then draw a rectangle and read its extent from the four text boxes provided. You can also use www.informationfreeway.org which gives you the mouse pointer lat/lon in the bottom right corner. Bye Frederik -- Ulf Mehlig[EMAIL PROTECTED] --- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
