Re: [OSM-talk] Is Xapi working?
Lennard wrote: Maarten Deen wrote: The server running the xapi service is down at the moment. Any info on what the problem is and when it's going to be resolved? And what is the status of the other two XAPI servers? Bearstech seems to be perpetually testing, and xapi.openstreetmap still serves 0.5 data and 0.6 service will start shortly (ever since the move to 0.6). Any help needed? Is XAPI 'officially' supported? I mean: is it considered one of the fundamental things in OSM land? For the BeNeLux server we are now running a 'SQL based' XAPI server[1]. Since that is about 700MB worth of data it is relatively easy to setup and update. The world on disk is 35GB and the code exist to support SQL based queries and 'xpath' style queries[2] with '0.5' output. So the only thing that needs to be added is the actual timestamp of the last data load. If anyone has a server available with 64bit Linux, 4-8GB of RAM and some spare gigabytes left, port 80 open to the public, I am happy to set it up. Stefan [1] http://xapi.openstreet.nl:8000/ [2] http://repo.or.cz/w/handlerosm.git ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Wanted feature for API 0.7 ??
hanoj wrote: I have idea about relative positioned node on the line (crossing, bus_stop, railway stops) object with no direct relation to geometry, but with topology relation. Currently I describe it even in a step further. Imagine that you could contraint lines based on these properties; for example you have two lines, and one line [the black one] moves: http://konink.de/contrib/afstuderen/example.png Having 'virtual' nodes will directly give you the right change, that can propagate in the entire graph. Now the bus stop model could perfectly be fitted at the aspect ratio or offset of a line for topology reasons. Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is OpenAerialMap service dead?
Peter Miller wrote: What resources would be required to 'do it right'? Is it worth doing that? Are there a group of people who want to do so? We are currently under the flag of openstreetphoto flying with Mikrokopters and Canon camera's to maken new aerial photography released under CC-BY-SA for non-paying people, and CC-BY for people that want to compensate for hardware and invested time. A WMS is being setup to store the material, because I don't want those photo's to end up in our 'default' PoI photo layer. Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is OpenAerialMap service dead?
Peter Miller wrote: Great stuff. Is it planned that this can be used as a DB of aerial photography from other sources such as private planes or authorities (just so long as the photography is released on a suitable license)? My main problem with OpenAerialMap was that nobody responded to my request if I could put CC-BY-SA content on there, because I have to differentiate in products. In my humble opinion we just make different raster layers with different licenses. So we could even import the NASA satellite map, so yes; Open to everyone, under a license that fits your bill, exported to the licenses that interest the viewer. Also - Is OpenStreetPhoto going to be usable for storage of ground level photos of junctions, bridges etc which can be useful for photo route planning or not. The name you have used would lead me to expect that it would, however the project description seems to focus on aerial photography. Would this be a possible extension of the project? http://openstreetphoto.org/map.html?zoom=11lat=51.82169lon=4.35867layers=BT It is work in progress :) The Google Summer of Code part of the projects takes image recognition to the next level; slight preview: http://mirror.openstreetmap.nl/openstreetphoto/tijs/results/110609/test1/DSC00161.JPG_result.jpg Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] openmaps.org
Eric Pritchett wrote: I'm sure there are more advantages, There is; there is no trade mark on the name :) Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] openmaps.org
SteveC wrote: On 16 Jun 2009, at 09:51, Stefan de Konink wrote: Eric Pritchett wrote: I'm sure there are more advantages, There is; there is no trade mark on the name :) There isn't on openstreetmap either. Ok, the first time they refused it: http://www.ipo.gov.uk/domestic?domesticnum=2500154 But since you tried again in two categories... http://www.ipo.gov.uk/ohim?ohimnum=E7366859 I think you should add 'yet'. Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] openmaps.org
SteveC wrote: Wrong again. The ™ was applied for the logo and the name So 'mark' means to me 'name' so OpenStreetMap was protected if it was granted, yes? in the UK and Europe and the Foundation owns the whole problem, not me. I thought you did 'something' in the foundation too ;) Passive aggressiveness works much better when you're also correct :-) In your country it seems that companies can apply, and not persons on their private home addresses ;) KT13 9DP != CR5 3QZ But I am far too happy to be aggressive tonight :D The Dutch tax service was so nice :) Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] openmaps.org
SteveC wrote: Next I'm going to wake up in the morning and you'll be outside my house, stalking me :-O Not to worry, Saturday we started a project to have the Chamber of Commerce in The Netherlands to be open 24x7 (like your patent office they close at night). I have already 1544818 persons to stalk in the morning, before I'll be at your place. Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SOTM 08 videos
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Arlindo Pereira wrote: Maybe not the appropriate thread for that, but we could stream the SOTM 09 videos with an Symbian S60 phone (such as N95) with Qik (http://qik.com/). The software streams video in high quality, so everyone can watch them live, leave an MP4 copy on the cellphone and the Qik website can automatically publish the video in Youtube when the stream has ended. The software is not opensource (nor the codec/container), but we can transcode the videos to Ogg Theora. If there's an open wireless access point, I can do it with my cellphone. I posted my thoughts on this subject also to Martijn; I think live streaming would be trivial if the bandwidth is available for outgoing broadcasts. My idea was to put an Elphel[1] camera there for recording and broadcast or do something with dvswitch[2]. If broadcast in IPv6 multicast, the outgoing bandwidth wouldn't be a problem at all and could always be transcoded at a v4 proxy. Stefan [1] http://www3.elphel.com/ [2] http://dvswitch.alioth.debian.org/wiki/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkpBg+wACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn2AAQCfdnysPMVGvzeyQVYE0m5mF4fQ IxQAmwWyvZkpg98O6PduQ1eywJqzLq8q =BbCA -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Thousands of small changesets by Tim Proegler
On Thu, 25 Jun 2009, Tom Hughes wrote: ...and that it would be better to group them into a small number of changesets instead of creating one for each node. It would be even better if the software that managed the backend would do it automatically :) Now the editor is blamed for bad programming practice while semantically the editor actually /just works/ with API0.6; Reminds me of another editor at the 0.5 stage. Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is OpenAerialMap service dead?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Robin Paulson wrote: 2009/6/13 Stefan de Konink ste...@konink.de: Also - Is OpenStreetPhoto going to be usable for storage of ground level photos of junctions, bridges etc which can be useful for photo route planning or not. The name you have used would lead me to expect that it would, however the project description seems to focus on aerial photography. Would this be a possible extension of the project? http://openstreetphoto.org/map.html?zoom=11lat=51.82169lon=4.35867layers=BT It is work in progress :) The Google Summer of Code part of the projects takes image recognition to the next level; slight preview: will this ever turn into a google street view type project? That is our intention. But we are currently busy with streetsign recognition and photo rectification for aerial images. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkpK/zYACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn21XwCgjn/MW0EN/DlBa9yl48KUWQDE lecAmgMGhkSegGc/a3Xscsr69o5v6AUA =w13W -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Jonathan Bennett wrote: Thomas Schäfer wrote: No, the answer was not satisfying. What part of it's not under our control didn't you understand? Set up a SixXS tunnel and have fun :) Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkpLj1AACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn09CQCfXJi9Lgu0qYSK7IX/TWujsowf 7icAn3eLN0GJ8HPnb359hUJiRQr7ozhm =CtLR -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Jonathan Bennett wrote: Stefan de Konink wrote: Set up a SixXS tunnel and have fun :) Great idea! How long do you think it will take you? For me probably about an hour if Jeroen is online ;) Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkpLw4kACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn0BQwCeIFLPLPmcVGhpKWVReD7TdS+C jdoAn02D99kb92067O6FOU071qTncRf9 =o8x5 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Frederik Ramm wrote: Thomas Schäfer wrote: Discussions about Ipv6 is not wasted hot air. It is related to osm, because osm should be based on it, but isn't. It shoud simply be done, then is no further discussion about it. Let's be pragmatic here like we usually are. If we were to switch to IPv6 today (which I understand we can't but let's assume we could), what part of OSM would work better tomorrow? - - We could instantly move to distributed tilecaches automatically routed to the closed tileserver available. - - Likewise for a read only api - - For the people that have multicasting available we could create a stream of changesets that everyone that subscribes gets I can think of much more... Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkpLxBYACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn3nlQCfa5/PvSXTGMJO5ExgjRbB+4KV jtYAn1s3A97DN/Oa4V9EBO6BulyOD+Lp =dlaj -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Dirk-Lüder Kreie wrote: Thomas Schäfer schrieb: It is probably a moot point anyway because, as someone else pointed out, either UCL does it or they don't and we would be the last ones to raise a fuss with them over anything. You don't want realize. I have to accept that. Sorry. OSM is largely a meritocracy (or do-ocracy as someone put it) so, if you can do it without having to pester UCL staff, do it. With someone at the UCL we tested the most easy way of IPv6, it worked instantly. The static way will be tested if this guy has his own account. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkpNEdsACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn2OUACgjzbaL5yRvBfx2PrwLjmnUy9I M88AniPJG2AW1ELgHYy+G789Une4xVAq =3aXa -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Making an offline OpenStreetMap CD/DVD ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 John Smith wrote: Or you could use some binary format that reduces all the bloating produced by xml. ...or database [files] as Rory McCann suggested, for direct usage. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkpNdPkACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn1F4gCaAl+K2N2f7IFtNca4A95PKvd5 Cq0An2GaVvZbWAvgZWDZOfOXYE2JX8Gq =rp+3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 SteveC wrote: On 2 Jul 2009, at 08:57, Tom Hughes wrote: Thomas Schäfer wrote: sorry the theme is for the most of the people off topic. They use the application osm via internet. But the fundament of the internet (its protocol) is changing. We (the admins) are all well aware of this. I personally have had IPv6 on my home network for some years now. Please, when will OSM support IP over pigeon? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkpN8uoACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn1vEACgiu5cA1xnk4dAVSCgLGVmuS2I EAMAn166HE0lTAf7YGPa5NicMl4MTgbo =nUA2 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 John Smith wrote: --- On Fri, 3/7/09, Stefan de Konink ste...@konink.de wrote: then you win. If you want to win, all you have to do according to a previous poster is draw up a migration plan for OSM. As mentioned in the serious post before. We have yesterday *tested* IPv6 with SixXS at UCL... there were no issues, it *just* worked. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkpN+UIACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn1AVgCfekNj6i2oK3JmBPnbMRi3pccp K/QAniygx73QfTb5SWAcrig0PEU5WI0S =+Dkx -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Jonathan Bennett wrote: John Smith wrote: I'm still scratching my head as to why this isn't possible to be honest. It's possible, but it appears the people who think it's so important just want to sit on their arses and have someone else do the work. Right... Now this was yesterday #osm; (18:40:16) Skinkie: TomH: so why not test if it works :) (18:40:35) TomH: because it's a load of work for eff all gain and I've got much better things to do (18:41:02) Skinkie: ok great, as I asked before, is there any spare machine that I can become almighty user on, to actually *do* it? (18:41:23) TomH: do what? (18:41:43) Skinkie: Before I asked to setup a geodistributed tile cache, now I want to do that + ipv6 (18:42:06) TomH: ipv6 would need to be on the live service machines though to be of any uise (18:42:17) apmon: skinkie, how much work is it? I could potentially test the UCL firewall on my local laptop, but to be honest it wouldn't surprise me if it didn't work (18:42:19) Skinkie: TomH: you just said you had no time to test it (18:42:21) TomH: and no, there are no spare machines with public IP addresses (18:42:31) Skinkie: So I offer you my time to test it, and for someone else to deploy (18:42:43) TomH: right Skinkie you just managed to be the second person in my ignore list apmon actually tested it with me at UCL... Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkpOE10ACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn0n0gCeL38T7RG/w3ln3TPqL98Bge6x FsQAoI7U/37xxgZPxbCpfnvdc3M6i7j2 =y4yE -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Aun Yngve Johnsen wrote: An implementation of the protocol for both the wiki and OSM in general would mean that OSM coverage will be virtually global, and no longer depending on broadband connections. I wonder what the RTT would be from UK to USA. Maybe even the amount of packetloss; I mean if OpenShortestPigeonFlight is not used... that could be enormous. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkpOHfMACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn2IMwCgjjv3i/OFs6Hug2lA4NwNizE5 y+gAoIyz+xbVd2G3qKZYZizGNk/bfaxB =SXdS -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping Photos
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 John McKerrell wrote: Next week I'm giving a talk about OpenStreetView at the State of the Map conference. One of the things I want to do with the project is try to host all of the photographs that people take while they're out mapping. I think we have the same intention and already do that part ;) http://www.openstreetphoto.org/map.html But streetview also means the 3D client side stuff, are you making any progress on that? Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkpQkgoACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn0YPgCfX5Dl3ZWaKb4QKgYNbJdIIj1X BC0An1b4CR2wlKsJlw3idsAPwI0CYO4h =1AJa -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping Photos
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 malenki wrote: John McKerrell wrote: Next week I'm giving a talk about OpenStreetView at the State of the Map conference. One of the things I want to do with the project is try to host all of the photographs that people take while they're out mapping. Speaking for me: Do you really want to show hundreds (or thousands) of often wiggly and blurred criss-cross shooten pictures of housenumbers, signs, shelters and other stuff? If it is georeferenced it is basically usable. As we already do the recognition of signs. The more training material the better. I'll take all stuff we have already collected in .nl for John at SOTM; I'll reply in private for the FTP upload. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkpQolYACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn0CXACdGEmn2ikfBr0rrAu9kJovvV65 1mEAn1BLdDkthi2MVXxb4r4DvHjzuzxU =gKLu -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping Photos
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512
Hi John!
John McKerrell wrote:
What I've been concentrating on is the
storing and managing of the photos.
Ok :) I don't mind who does it ;) as long as it gets done.
I had seen openstreetphoto and saw
that you had looked at this but I thought you were concentrating more on
the aerial imagery.
Yes, we are a rather 'diverse' group; initially we also thought it would
be cool to set up a WMS server not only for the aerial stuff, but also
for this kind of stuff, so you could import your photos in Merkaartor or
JOSM trivially. And still have them referenced to locations, as kind of
a base mosaic layer with photos.
The sign reading software should be cool so what I
would be looking to do is to provide a large set of photos that someone
could run this software on when it's written.
Tijs currently requires proper photo's with good coverage of the concept
for training. Anyone that brings it in, is basically helping to get a
better classifier. If we join this effort there might be a way how te
can help the editors by providing autocompletion of names based on the
photo sign recognition close by.
I've had a slightly better
look at the wiki now but I don't actually see where people can upload
photos, is this available yet as that was where I was going to focus my
efforts?
I have just created a reasonable public 'secure' ftp upload. The idea is
that you claim a user directory; and start uploading. The images are
automatically chowned. I have attached my exif2kml.php code that I use
to create the file for the mashup layer.
As for FTP:
ftp://openstreetphoto.org/
...and do your thing :)
I am all for mirroring the data. So we might just discuss offlist a good
mirror initiative.
Stefan
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
iEYEAREKAAYFAkpQxEkACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn3V6wCfSkXi2ETgpOnfNTE7S394LHuv
vBQAn15JxXDKYFjD+ItW6ul62s324OIJ
=WuR6
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
';
foreach ($paths as $path) {
if ($handle = opendir($diskbase.$path)) {
while (false !== ($file = readdir($handle))) {
if (substr(strtolower($file), -4) == '.jpg') {
$pathfile = $path.'/'.$file;
$photo = $diskbase.$pathfile;
$ex...@exif_read_data($photo);
if ($exif === false) {
echo $photo;
} else {
$lat = '';
$lon = '';
switch (count($exif['GPSLatitude'])) {
case 1:
$lat = $exif['GPSLatitude'];
break;
case 3:
$lat = (evalu($exif['GPSLatitude'][0]) + (evalu($exif['GPSLatitude'][1]) / 60) + (evalu($exif['GPSLatitude'][2]) / 3600)) * ($exif['GPSLatitudeRef'][0] == 'N' ? 1 : -1);
break;
}
switch (count($exif['GPSLongitude'])) {
case 1:
$lon = $exif['GPSLongitude'];
break;
case 3:
$lon = (evalu($exif['GPSLongitude'][0]) + (evalu($exif['GPSLongitude'][1]) / 60) + (evalu($exif['GPSLongitude'][2]) / 3600)) * ($exif['GPSLongitudeRef'][0] == 'E' ? 1 : -1);
break;
}
if ($lat != '' && $lon != '') {
$thumbfile = $diskthumbbase.$pathfile;
if (!file_exists( $thumbfile )) {
$thumbWidth = 150;
@mkdir($diskthumbbase.$path, 0755, true);
$img = imagecreatefromjpeg( $photo );
$width = imagesx( $img );
$height = imagesy( $img );
$new_width = $thumbWidth;
$new_height = floor( $height * ( $thumbWidth / $width ) );
$tmp_img = imagecreatetruecolor( $new_width, $new_height );
imagecopyresized( $tmp_img, $img, 0, 0, 0, 0, $new_width, $new_height, $width, $height );
imagejpeg( $tmp_img, $thumbfile );
}
echo '
'.$file.'
'.$thumbbase.$pathfile.'
'.$lon.','.$lat.'
';
$i++;
}
}
}
}
closedir($handle);
}
}
echo '
';
?>
___
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Re: [OSM-talk] Is OpenAerialMap service dead?
On Mon, 6 Jul 2009, Valent Turkovic wrote: I'm really impressed with what you have done, it is amazing! Thanks :D I honestly don't know if it is sarcasm or not :D How can others who wish to join start contributing aerial photos? I think the best would be to submit rectified photo's with a World file; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_file If you submit them both to ftp://openstreetphoto.org/ (just create a userdir) and ping back, one of us will update the mapfile and the photo's are present. How to stitch aerial photos into maps? In that case we can just use standard off the shell mechanisms such as mapserver to render a WMS layer. I think Milo loaded the 'lite' version of the free NASA dataset now in the WMS. There is another part that can be interesting that is the actual stiching of multiple datasources into something 'really' pretty. Using hugin. But related to the rectifying process there are still some bounties to be set. Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is OpenAerialMap service dead?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 marcus.wolsc...@googlemail.com wrote: On Mon, 6 Jul 2009 16:33:05 +0200 (CEST), Stefan de Konink ste...@konink.de wrote: n others who wish to join start contributing aerial photos? I think the best would be to submit rectified photo's with a World file; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_file So, how do you rectify your photos? I tried to find a way quite a while ago but could not find any tools to do it that did not require weeks of intensive learning. Not a single graphical tool that allowed clicking on matching points at all. Marcus -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkpTH4gACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn2LZwCaAwae2vyvEsJ8EUmnkInn1vex MDwAn0ZEGkvqUE2EfKtFCGXGE7A7a3cc =Wzvp -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Is OpenAerialMap service dead?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 marcus.wolsc...@googlemail.com wrote: So, how do you rectify your photos? Hugin is very capable of doing it now; but we are actually planning to extend it to make a more user friendly interface. I tried to find a way quite a while ago but could not find any tools to do it that did not require weeks of intensive learning. Not a single graphical tool that allowed clicking on matching points at all. Did you see the webbased tools th basically show you al already rectified image from for example Yahoo, Google, etc. and you mark this point on your photo? Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkpTH/8ACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn1iDwCdHj0gulfVpDHMB4piXhr/hPKv Xa8AoIpX66KOHYBEffZ6UUJ2ub9Tbz2X =6Va2 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Launching bestofosm.org
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Jochen Topf wrote: Great suggestion. Just added it. :-) I would like to mention something that had big coverage aswell before: The Dutch (Amsterdam) Zoo, Artis. http://bestofosm.org/?type=Mapniklon=4.91619lat=52.36590zoom=17 Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkpTOS8ACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn3uhQCfYmytVqEnwV7d4woNaApOWHz0 rA4AnRIpqKDqIfUyqfcBI2xhQVFOSB5o =iZlT -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] SteveC; C = Cool
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 SteveC wrote: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-de/2009-July/049514.html I'm not going to apply on talk-de to tell you this: inventing nodes, ways, segments (remember them?) You *did not* invent the spaghetti model, please give credit to the original inventor Stan Aronoff, in Geographic information systems: A management perspective (1989). After the years of iterations don't you think it sucks that your simple easy REST-based model is now made so difficult in 0.6? Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkpTvZQACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn3CFACfdA210hgoYTcRNUWp+xEBGovp 76sAn1WDFEVDK4B7CvsZxNPvXVXz3j0s =liu2 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SteveC; C = Cool
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 SteveC wrote: You *did not* invent the spaghetti model, please give credit to the original inventor Stan Aronoff, in Geographic information systems: A management perspective (1989). Well i never read it and they're kind of trivial. That was the point, at that time it was not trivial; it was an invention to describe m-dimensional objects such as line and polygon only with n-dimensional types such as point and line, where n m. I consider this in the same amount of triviality as REST. 'Why didn't I think of this before?' After the years of iterations don't you think it sucks that your simple easy REST-based model is now made so difficult in 0.6? Mozart had Salieri, I get you guys. Still you live [that was an observation I made without sleeping in front of your door yesterday], and you have influence on the process :) So don't you consider it a waste it got more difficult? Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkpTxusACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn1WjgCgj0iDfie4h+GR40+zV6EOM/ji xUgAn3Y38XsSmQ1cNkp70o5e/l2mK7ym =ifTZ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SteveC; C = Cool
On Wed, 8 Jul 2009, Matt Amos wrote: On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Stefan de Koninkste...@konink.de wrote: SteveC wrote: inventing nodes, ways, segments (remember them?) You *did not* invent the spaghetti model, please give credit to the original inventor Stan Aronoff, in Geographic information systems: A management perspective (1989). actually, OSM doesn't use the spaghetti model. according to [1,2], Aronoff's spaghetti model treats points as coordinates and lines as lists of coordinates Isn't this exactly how segments and ways are stored within OSM? An XML subtree referencing to points (thus lower diminensional objects)? While multipolygons are now stored as relation of two polygons? - basically what the OGC's simple features architecture [3] uses - and there's no explicit connectivity. OSM, on the other hand, uses a topological model which comes from a graph theory background, so really we should be crediting Leonhard Euler. Always good to credit him :) Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping party suggestion for SOTM
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: So here's hoping that SOTM visitors to Amsterdam will be able to rectify this situation. Sadly(?) the city of Amsterdam is about to close virtually the entire redlight district... so I guess it would be a historic effort ;) Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkpVSBAACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn2xugCeMuNwYiWX5QwcQfn0veVwvtRn u0AAoIoivuLuU4+VJuVIgq6uq2NjtmAi =mZs7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Potlatch 1.1
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Tim Waters (chippy) wrote: Neither the page on openstreetphoto.org nor http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/OpenStreetPhoto gives any detail about how us, the community can add photos to this database. :') Maybe you could look back in your email box and see the only thing you have to is point your browser to ftp://openstreetphoto.org/ Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkpfa64ACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn0s5QCfZq7JYqiEbsG+KwS2BjH2PboP q2oAn2XtGJgcPmz9g0eT2PsXS7x0yIvJ =IWSx -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Potlatch 1.1
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2009/7/16 Stefan de Konink ste...@konink.de: Tim Waters (chippy) wrote: Neither the page on openstreetphoto.org nor http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/OpenStreetPhoto gives any detail about how us, the community can add photos to this database. Maybe you could look back in your email box and see the only thing you have to is point your browser to ftp://openstreetphoto.org/ do you know how I could redirect something like this http://www.23hq.com/dieterdreist/geotagged to the ftp-server without downloading it to localhost before? Not, but if you have a wgettable list I'm happy to download it :) Alternatively you can use scp :) Because we also support that :) (user: osp_upload) Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkpfeh8ACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn1z9gCeOCm9cmvL2dJuK8seF9u2cwSN KA8AnAx5f+MKVANWnoqoCB12GlbNkEjd =jRd/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Potlatch 1.1
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Shaun McDonald wrote: Can you please place information on the above wiki page on how to do that with all the glory details, rather than having people rely on searching through their mail archives, if they are subscribed to the mailing list. Done. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkpffU8ACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn1yMwCaA2s4xt9sOBxDkhxB8VKd0ywl zhAAoI7F5wRgmfA6bGtzpcEnPfXZKwiy =bJ77 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Building bridges: Kaliningrad mapping party?
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009, Laurence Penney wrote: I was recently in Kaliningrad[1], where I had the opportunity to inspect its seven bridges[2], the conundrum surrounding which, solved by Euler, kicked off topology. Much to my dismay I found that two of the bridges - numbers 3 and 4 if you start numbering from the west - no longer exist. I wonder if, in honour of the founding father of routing, anybody is interested in a mapping party there. The two missing bridges would make a fine use of the end_date tag, with which we could enjoy some historic routing. What a terribly good excuse to get a Russian visa :D (I guess that enclave still requires it right?) More ambitiously, now that the cathedral[3] has been beautifully restored with German money, I wonder if any German OSM enthusiasts with fund-raising talents might consider an international appeal to rebuild the destroyed bridges as footbridges, so that Kaliningraders (perhaps wedding parties, since that's who seem to dominate the island on a Sunday afternoon) might have the pleasure of a topological ponder and wander as did their German forebears. The Brits might consider donating too, since it was the RAF that bombed the city to bits. Think such thing would require some skills to set up. Especially an architect for the actual new bridges etc. But the idea is terribly cool :) Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Google StreetView From Bikes
On Thu, 30 Jul 2009, Ian Dees wrote: That's why Google uses high-res digital video cameras running on Firewire on their rigs. I was more expecting the Elphel board design ;) Using 20MP kodak's CCDs like they use in their book digitizing stuff. Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Photos
On Sat, 1 Aug 2009, Tristan Thomas wrote: Is there any method of adding photos etc. to OSM like there is for Google Maps. For instance, if you navigate to somewhere on Google Maps, it comes up with user submitted geo-tagged photos. Is there anything similar for OSM? If not, should there be? http://www.openstreetphoto.org/map.html user submitted geotagged photos are basically stored now in one by KML file. Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] radioactivity
On Sun, 9 Aug 2009, Frederik Ramm wrote: Forgive my scientific ignorance, but are actual measurements even static enough - I mean, if I measure radiation X at a certain place, is there reason to believe that it will (in the absence of catastrophic events) be more or less unchanged one month in the future? It depends on the decay time. I just wanted to reply we would require some sort of temporal database to actually facilitate this. So to answer your point. If there is an actual measurement of lets say N amount of becquerels, you can be pretty sure it is more fixed then your typical roads. And if it is dangerous all depends on the type of radiation it emits :) So if we take normal uranium it will only be alpha radiation, unless you eat, breath in dust etc. it is not harmful. (So you know exactly the reason why you shouldn't eat mushrooms in East-Europe) To equip your GPS device (the satelite already has a detector ;) with a Geigercounter will probably give nice information, usefulness within OSM - 0. Just fork it into a thing like the altitude maps. ORM ;) Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] to all potlatch and JOSM users - automatic simplification of geometry
On Sun, 9 Aug 2009, Richard Fairhurst wrote: Turn on the Yahoo imagery, align the start and end points of the way, and select the 'Tidy' function. Hey presto, the street is now correctly aligned to the grid. You could have done this manually, but it would have taken 10 times as long and wouldn't be as precise. And then you realise that the alignment of Yahoo Imagery is wrong on most places, and you have killed good vector material. Great job :) Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] to all potlatch and JOSM users - automatic simplification of geometry
On Sun, 9 Aug 2009, Richard Fairhurst wrote: Stefan de Konink wrote: And then you realise that the alignment of Yahoo Imagery is wrong on most places, and you have killed good vector material. Great job :) Good vector material? Tell me, have you ever _seen_ TIGER? Yes, and I have also _seen_ Yahoo been wrong on more places than it was right. So I am still skeptical people tracing Yahoo and claiming they are better than [insert source here] mainly because except that source they have 0 ground reference. Seriously, you're kidding me. Yahoo may be out-of-alignment here and there but by and large if the street looks straight in Yahoo, it is straight. And US city streets generally are. TIGER streets are bonkers mad wavy. Most likely this is true because the TIGER dataset was actually traced from/for a much lower precision map, hence wavy because you are plotting it on a far higher resolution then it was created for. With respect to TIGER you might say: TIGER is *so* bad, Yahoo will always be better. My point is, unless Yahoo is actualy validated where you are tracing it gives poor output too, no matter how bad you think TIGER is. Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] to all potlatch and JOSM users - automatic simplification of geometry
On Sun, 9 Aug 2009, John Smith wrote: Assuming that yahoo is wrong, at least it will be consistently wrong and it's trivially to mass move ways when you do get reference points to re-align the data to. Moving stuff in GIS is never trivial. You don't know why it is wrong, and even if it looks 'locally' shifted it could be even misrectified causing it to be shifted and streched possibly rotated. My own town is in this situation. And most AND data imported in NL has also a very strange offset to what several GPX traces show as 'this is the road'. Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] to all potlatch and JOSM users - automatic simplification of geometry
On Sun, 9 Aug 2009, Shaun McDonald wrote: How does your town compare to Yahoo? It seems to have an offset in both X and Y. But I can only see that locally. I don't know if there is a more global problem. I have only heard of trival shifts in the rectification being a problem. I think it could be fixed to just measure some points in on the ground and hook them up to a pixel then transform it. Maybe we could work /with/ Yahoo on this. Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] to all potlatch and JOSM users - automatic simplification of geometry
On Sun, 9 Aug 2009, John Smith wrote: You get 4 or more points on the ground by GPS and you align to that, I meant suburb level, not an entire city or states or countries. Already saw an OSM editor supporting realigning Yahoo Imagery based on existing points? Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Building floor plans
On Sun, 9 Aug 2009, noh way jose wrote: Has this been done/suggested yet? I know it is been discussed, but it is only limited by your client. A client should be able to do something like Xapi, selecting only a specific layer, with dynamic filtering. This would be great for all other sorts of editing too. Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Status of the Local Chapter working group
On Thu, 13 Aug 2009, Nick Black wrote: * Give potential Local Chapter leaders and other community members the change to discuss the proposed agreement My biggest concern now is the mixture of not-for-profit and democratically lead organisation. It is a big concern for me that the actual organisations that actually jumpstarted OpenStreetMap in The Netherlands would not even be able to apply under these rules. While in the past every press anouncement from OpenStreetMap NL was distributed via them. To be concrete; in my Dutch perspective a non-profit organisation is a Foundation. And the Dutch `Foundation' cannot have members, only contributors. For the reason to have an independancy between `the board`, `the money` and `the contributors` voting about money is board only, the board cannot get (significant) money for theirselves the contributors bring in money and/or effort. If the term of a board member is done, the board chooses a new board member. That sounds like a dictatorship, it is. For this legal reason Stichting Vrijschrift or Stichting OpenGeo could never apply. Hence there are no 30 members and even with 30 contributors their is no democratic saying on anything. Since the purpose of a 'foundation' is to have a goal, not people talking if these goals are valid. Therefor if only membership organisations are allowed to be a local chapter this should be point one. Personally I would prefer that the membership would be directly to OSMF and that localstuff is handled by /any/ organisation that has OpenStreetMap or free available geography/data as one of their targets. Stefan (for sake of completeness; treasurer of Stichting OpenGeo and volunteer in Vrijschrift) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] DraganFly RC helicopters
Erik Lundin schreef: I know RC helicopters as potential aerial photo source has been discussed before, but today I read about some helicopter from DraganFly and didn't find anything about them on the lists. They seem to be very interesting for our purposes. http://www.draganfly.com/ They are far to expensive. Currently we (openstreetphoto) are looking at big Electroglyders. Shortly we will have some snapshots from a smaller one. The one that is in the progres to be build will have a spawn of around 3 meters and could potentially carry a digital reflex camera. If you want to go Quadcopter I strongly suggest to go for a real open source project. Because you will not realise how much it will annoy you if you have to change something but can't do it because the platform is closed. Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] DraganFly RC helicopters
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 SLXViper schreef: This won't happen if you develop your own one ;) We started with two and half Mikrokopter; the arrogance that we have faced in that project. Unbelievable. Now we are facing something real; Quadcopters are relatively great for in the city as long as they are stable, but you cannot make great lengths with them. So for now we put our money in electroglyders, which we have seen that actually can produce stuff that is useful. Draganfly is a little bit expensive (as it is designed commercially for professional users), there are cheaper microcopter projects. My suggestion is after the mikrokopter farce only go for real opensource, documented. Not a bit open. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkqF5eIACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn0QaACbBs6Igte2x3go0jL0RONHXe/y TeIAnRWa9DHjnkOqzF8nKvhNMkfmz7hc =Pirl -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] DraganFly RC helicopters
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 SLXViper schreef: Stefan de Konink wrote: SLXViper schreef: This won't happen if you develop your own one ;) We started with two and half Mikrokopter; the arrogance that we have faced in that project. Unbelievable. Additionally, mikrokopter has quite a lot of design flaws. - - Electrical markup that is not documented because people could copy it - - 5V / 12V overflows resulting into broken lanes with standard design (elaborating how difficult it is to find a 'cut' if you don't have the layout is not required I guess) - - Recently I found out the compass provided is far to easy to influence Rather low-power brushless motors That is up to the builder, there are a dozen motors to choose from. and very sensitive controllers, chaotic software The major problem is not the software, it is C for embedded stuff, trust me the typical 8051 software on a creditcard is worse ;) The problem is that they actually do not provide the full software package, aka; the most important stuff regarding to secure flying the GPS aid is not provided in code because they seem to be afraid the other 'commercial' guys copy there code... and documentation, a not-so-good flight control, etc. etc. lack of active debugging. Ignoring serious development request... The concept of a microcopter can be improved a lot as Draganfly shows... The main problem is that devoloping such a complex system is neither easy nor cheap. Thankfully we always have people like Adam Williams of Cinelerra fame building http://vicacopter.com/ and a lot of other open source project exist where people actually build stuff. But somewhere deep down inside thought that if someone actually 'sells' stuff it would be at least 1.0... Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkqF9N8ACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn1xpwCeKxDK2SBVnaTB81XZLPQfGmvx AusAn2O/f2TA3SbnWzKzKFrHFHLq4O/s =OmsK -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] DraganFly RC helicopters
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Erik Lundin schreef: I don't really understand what you mean by open source here. If you buy an RC helicopter, aren't you free to do whatever you want with it? Typically an RC helicopter is not really what you want when you are flying to make photos. A quadcopter has no such thing as full manual operation basically because you would be to slow to compensate for rotation on all axis, so you would need some software and sensors for you to do this. So only for getting the thing in the air there is software that tries to keep it leveled and allows your input to artificially bring it out of balance to control it. If this software is not perfect so you might want to toy with it right? So the Mikrokopter also has a navigation board. You can hookup extra censors like a compass and a GPS. Now for some reason this software is not fully disclosed. Cutting a long story short, we wrote two independent open source flashers (Linux / .NET) for the Mikrokopter. We have hacked in assembly to try to get the baudrate artificially lower to connect wireless RS232 (we failed miserably). And that kind of reverse engineering frustrations just make you thing... why didn't we design it from scratch... Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkqF+SEACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn3Q+QCeNlwTUxqz52B7YBF6VxYfoTiW twAAn1WqN3wJ/kce6m05JoxE0R0dGBa3 =3Ukx -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Video inputs to OpenStreetView
On Mon, 17 Aug 2009, John Smith wrote: --- On Mon, 17/8/09, Erik Johansson e...@kth.se wrote: Anyways I was pointed to a camera that records your journey. http://technabob.com/blog/2009/08/12/selfic-cube-7100-car-black-box-recorder/ Is 640x480 good enough? ;) ofcourse we want 1080p ;) But to be honest, having seen progressing 480p out of a canon in MJPEG, I'm very happy to watch that ;) Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Video inputs to OpenStreetView
On Mon, 17 Aug 2009, Erik Johansson wrote: On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 8:35 PM, OJ Wojwli...@googlemail.com wrote: I'm just looking at ways of getting video-camera data into openstreetview http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Georeference_video http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~ojw/StreetPhotos/test3/output.kml is anyone else working with georeferenced videos for mapping? I tried but my point and shoot overheated, and the time stamps/framerate was 10s off in the end.. :-) The Elphel geocamera gives direction GPS etc. embedded in the video stream. That would probably the killer cam ;) Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Video inputs to OpenStreetView
On Mon, 17 Aug 2009, Elena of Valhalla wrote: On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 3:12 PM, Stefan de Koninkste...@konink.de wrote: On Mon, 17 Aug 2009, John Smith wrote: Is 640x480 good enough? ;) ofcourse we want 1080p ;) is 640x480 good enough e.g to read street names and other signs? Signs yes, names... I have doubts. But this will also depend on the shutterspeed (motion blur prevention). For now Tijs does only work on photos with the name as subject on the photo. Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Video inputs to OpenStreetView
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Erik Johansson schreef: Have you guys tried to take photos of signs with street names? We a lot of photos of that :) Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkqKzFgACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn208QCgifK3b/sb3JLjujV5G8rN46wl aVEAnjUsgzbNUTS0hCyF8w3CCoPoinHw =SpEp -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Video inputs to OpenStreetView
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 si...@mungewell.org schreef: Using a decent mount (ie. DIY steady cam ideas) and in-built image stablization in the camera may help. Check also the ContourHD camera :) We are also experimenting with that. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkqK2DsACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn35rACfTIq6mn44EARZWPitmvKEwfYh 6WgAn3HTpfDxprxtq13TxnYdZxhsJW9E =8B3j -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Video inputs to OpenStreetView
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 si...@mungewell.org schreef: Check also the ContourHD camera :) We are also experimenting with that. Looks pretty sweet shame it doesn't have an external MIC input for recording (FSK'ed) telemetery data such as speed/lat/log/ele/etc. If they were really smart they would put a NMEA input port and have this stored as additional data within the MPEG stream. That would 'sell it' to a lot of people!! You know that the company that made Amarillo trip trackers actually added features that were proposed by us. We just have to find the guys in Asia that makes these stuff :) Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkqK3xYACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn2Q7ACeKpT1X8icWBcBPnsAPMflddZH wYEAnRObDRda2JzvilwYbu+PNjejrXGZ =KF9F -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Video inputs to OpenStreetView
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 si...@mungewell.org schreef: From the Firewire camera link... -- A last thing you might consider: CMOS sensors (and some CCD but it is less efficient) have selectable 'regions of interrest' (ROI). This can increase the framerate dramatically with high-res cameras, or provide software pan/tilt by only sending an rectangular image region selected by the user. This is for instance very nice for high-res, high-speed object tracking. -- If you got really fancy you could have a split optics into a lowish res camera pair with a high res camera, so that regions of interest could be automatically tracked... The point with CMOS camera's is that they usually have electronic rolling shutters that gets a really /bad/ result when moving the camera. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkqK3tgACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn3yuACeONEEWUutHvvxOUPzxLjlLk9e qQkAoIxkMIDLN3bYDUtDyqrdZf3pZ0+W =JupM -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GSoC End: signFinder
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Peter Körner schreef: Whooohoow this is so cool! Looks like a lot of Voodoo to me :) As I saw from the samples It doesn't work well on blurred images, so it won't work with sth. like a helmet or a car camera, would it? Camera's are not by default blury, they become blurry if the shutterspeed is too low ;) Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkqLFs8ACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn01pgCfVghYTWT8QOYriSX2wZS7pHoJ Q0kAn0uvW5ybMm9J5JU5mvnLK3FH2G24 =ZXVS -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GSoC End: signFinder
On Sun, 23 Aug 2009, Kev js1982 wrote: Round here (south Nottingham, uk) black on white, with post codes and council name in red. In the city itself most are black on white, with some old ones white on black. Could anyone that actually knows `localized' streetsigns maybe provide them lets say at least 20 of them, pushing them to openstreetphoto or in private mail to Tijs or me? Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Data Used in Upcoming Monopoly Game
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Jennifer Campbell schreef: If this can be done with OSM data, would it be possible to create a Transport Tycoon type game along similar lines? Create bus routes and run trains, boats, trucks along real streets? The only thing that I doubt would be reasonably possible would be new construction. To be honest, creating it is completely beyond me, just putting the idea out there for someone who has the knowledge and fancies a go. A worldsim would be really interesting. Allowing 'modules' to be created by the players that could simulate something. This could speed up the development of tools for OSM. If people want to hookup for such thing, I wanna join :) Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkqoLssACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn0r9gCfXOcI75daUyYW7HoqmEWYJju4 zkYAnRahe4+0SW6LtzHClX2ld/IxTMt4 =7f75 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Reconstructing 3-d buildings from photographs
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Ed Avis schreef: This is some interesting work from Microsoft Research, taking photos on Flickr and processing them to create three-dimensional models of buildings and cities. http://grail.cs.washington.edu/rome/ And again not a line of source code is released; what a fantastic job :) For some source reference: http://phototour.cs.washington.edu/bundler/ Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkqyLoIACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn3ThACfVvUMdPxvXusdZL3BNdiQfWdP zXIAn1dZlXvHVqRRDXwLg5jZv8W5+NV4 =ym1m -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Own aerial photos
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Bev M Ewen-Smith schreef: I am hoping to take my own vertical/near-vertical aerial photos. Assuming that I can georeference them, what do I need to do to get them to show up under Potlach so that I can trace from them? For tracing and rectification qGIS is your friend :) Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkq6JTEACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn0pwQCfSgy1vphwV8X02BD3JtJ/+hlf F34An0AoRPHjjNqjoFPUfCMx8ygoGLkx =SIjS -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] nginx and mod_tile
NL is running on Cherokee, we have a 404 script that communicates with renderd. I guess this can be used by lighttpd and nginx too. Stefan Op 1 okt 2009 om 03:58 heeft John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com het volgende geschreven:\ 2009/10/1 Kenneth Gonsalves law...@au-kbc.org: hi, I have been serving osm using apache and mod_tile. Now I have shifted to nginx as it is much faster and uses less memory - any idea how to serve osm using nginx? I'd love to know too, I use lighttpd normally, but for the tile server I still have to use apache because I haven't been able to come up with a better solution unless I wanted to pre-render the world. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] nginx and mod_tile
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 John Smith schreef: 2009/10/1 Stefan de Konink ste...@konink.de: NL is running on Cherokee, we have a 404 script that communicates with renderd. I guess this can be used by lighttpd and nginx too. URL? I tried to code something similar like this in php before but didn't get very far at the time, can your script be run as a fastcgi script? If it can this would have similar performance as mod_tile... I think it was on this list before; vserver!20!document_root = /var/www/tile.openstreetmap.nl/htdocs vserver!20!error_handler = error_redir vserver!20!error_handler!404!show = 0 vserver!20!error_handler!404!url = /live/render.py This basically creates an invisible redirection if a tile doesn't exist. I really doesn't matter if it is visible. The script should get the tile one way or the other. This is our active script for that: http://mirror.openstreetmap.nl/sources/render.py And we are currently working on a modified version of renderd that allows other projections, helping out in testing, debugging and fixing is appreciated :) http://git.openstreetmap.nl/index.cgi/renderd.git/ Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkrEd40ACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn2ycgCggtoNLfCWa9BdEiNnEHJi/S9e VkoAnj7RvijqLrVoatYJtZ/rb0MUZ6dP =6bU7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Illegal activity
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009, Valent Turkovic wrote: http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?showtopic=40148 what to do with OSM mappers like these guys in this post? They say that they are using Google Earth images :( In some countries factual information is a legal source for derived data. Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Illegal activity
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009, Dave F. wrote: Do you have a list of countries where this is possible? No list; but this paper will enlight you ;) http://repository.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1051context=library_papers So, are you saying that someone in Canada for instance could trace areas from all over the world? I'm sceptical. I think the best analogy was the Russian based allofmp3 that had legal Russian licenses for their distributed music. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AllOfMP3 Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Illegal activity
At the GSoC there was a clear opening. Will pursue this when I'll feel better. Stefan Op 29 okt 2009 om 12:05 heeft John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com het volgende geschreven:\ 2009/10/29 Kenneth Gonsalves law...@au-kbc.org: look, a few days back someone (I think it was Richard Fairhurst) started a campaign asking google to allow us to trace their imagery. A lot of us signed up. The answer was a flat 'no'. So there is nothing ambigous about it. Yahoo! has said 'yes', google has said 'no'. Fullstop. That's incorrect it wasn't a flat out no. The answer was much more fuzzy. Ed Guy was very very clear on 2 things, first and fore most that you are not allowed to vectorise every single street in your city. He was also clear on the 2nd thing, that you are allowed to do your favourite hiking/walking trip and vectorise and mass distribute it, or even mass distribute points of interest. There is a line between the 2 that Google will draw the line, but even Ed wasn't certain exactly where that line is, in part because it's a grey area no one (not google nor their supplier) wants to deal with properly. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Illegal activity
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009, John Smith wrote: 2009/10/30 Stefan de Konink ste...@konink.de: At the GSoC there was a clear opening. Will pursue this when I'll feel better. It seems to me that Google prefers it a bit grey when it comes to their suppliers, so I'm not sure you'll end up with a better answer than Ed has already given. The talk with Leslie was pretty clear; state a well founded business case why OSM exchange would be good for Google and there is an opening. Google seems to be about talking the truth externally but usually not more than you already know. (Which is probably very good for a company that is under the influence of the stock exchange) Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tile Cache Time
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 bernhard schreef: Thanks for the hint. The problem now is, that iPhone ignores Cache-Control. :-( Maybe complaining at Apple helps, or just installing another browser :) Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.13 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkr4UqoACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn1P0ACeNfqw5gctNpoph9232Frzz4rV VhsAn1ygG0y1zrjTf9if4K60JAQMe/EC =S69w -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Offline Dump of the Wiki
On Tue, 17 Nov 2009, Tom Hughes wrote: What does our backup strategy have to do with the question of whether or not it's a good idea to mirror the wiki with wget? For what it's worth, the wiki is backed up nightly to a separate physical location. Can we get a url to wget the nightly backup from this separate physical location to not disturb the active wiki, but still be able to serve a wiki that is a day old? Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] more accurate open-source gps hardware
On Sun, 22 Nov 2009, frank mohr wrote: The price is about 100 euro (using an existing GPS receiver): Homegrown Arduino Clone about 20.00 euro ADXL345 - Triple Axis Accelerometer 24.95 euro IDG300 - Dual Axis Gyro56.00 euro I think if you do the last two parts 2x you actually get something usefull. Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Announce] OSMF license change vote has started
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 James Livingston schreef: For example, I have inferred road positions from the CC-BY-licensed Queensland DCDB-lite dataset, and have uploaded national park and world-heritage areas from the CC-BY dataset on data.australia.gov.au. As I'm not the copyright holder of those base datasets, I don't see how I could agree to the relicensing, or contributor terms which allow for future relicensing. Does that mean everything I've ever contributed (even my own work) has to be deleted? Probably. Thanks for setting this example. You can extend it to any data from Wikipedia. And most government related imports from The Netherlands. I have pointed this out on the talk-nl list as well. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.13 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAksa8F0ACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn0SJwCfR//f6eebGmWRR3z9uHzNjnaX 5MEAn2QLuznZPfrN9LaChMLx89YsUwQx =dd/X -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Announce] OSMF license change vote has started
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Frederik Ramm schreef: And there's a review in Dutch by an Internet lawyer of which I cannot say whether it's good or bad: http://blog.iusmentis.com/2009/07/15/open-source-databanken-de-opendatabanklicentie-versie-10 I can... before Arnoud already pointed out that factual information doesn't contain any copyright. Only the stylesheet that create a map is the creative work, that might include the software to do so. What he points out is that in a legal case in NL between an ISP and a spam-company that the owner, here the ISP, has a contractual right to limit the usage of the resources. Now the ODbL licence is actually targeting a third person. So not the publisher (OSM), not the user (2nd party) but the visitor of the user. And he claims this can be a very interesting case... because the 2nd party might actually have accepted the ODbL, but his visitor did not, can a visitor therefore be held to the ODbL contract... Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.13 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAksbDtQACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn1grQCfUei564SVD8GtPlIDSo4BrjJe mP0AmgPdHoLcQWNQO5sgESAkY65G0TJF =Rdem -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Announce] OSMF license change vote has started
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 SteveC schreef: Of course they said that, they only support PD-like licenses *as a policy*. What a non-sense, every academic works with attribution of past work. Including attribution in testsets and data being available. You are getting a bit narrow minded in the direction you want to go. ...and I still don't understand why we can't offer layers of data with any license that is on that layer. If people do prefer CC0/PD or in the other extreme -NC they can just edit on there. Case solved, everyone happy. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.13 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAksbOIYACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn3y6ACePMl3wjOJAnANHcs2NRzsNjix ZWgAn1eUP4162kz7wI+4/Qt9DAYft6TB =NKz8 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Announce] OSMF license change vote has started
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Matt Amos schreef: we're talking about moving to another license with very similar requirements, but a different implementation, and that's not open and free anymore? it would really help me if i could understand your position. Its honestly terribly simple. We get into a discussion over moving from a widely used `GPL2.0' like license that works for everyone, and best of all is compatible with everyone. Some folks here think that BSD style should be our target. Now the stearing committee thinks that for better protection we should go for OSI-APPROVED-LICENSE-X; that nobody is compatible with yet and worse. If we were Linux, we would have to remove our cool exotic network card drivers just to facilitate this move. And worst of all, all the nice vendors we were just talking with that were moved to going open are now bound to a contract... that sounds so... formal? Until anyone can guarantee that every bit of CC-BY-SA could be used without problems in the new framework; I'm a skeptic. And basically think about the deletionism in Wikipedia. Or wasting capital in real life. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.13 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAksbQvwACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn3Q1wCeLFtNkW2WXORuCShZtv4TI9ju cxUAn1Q5U1CB+9JDK+Yw4cyFQPTfS0+1 =Ygw9 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Announce] OSMF license change vote has started
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Matt Amos schreef: 1) continue to use a license which legal experts seem to agree doesn't work for us. 2) move to a new license. option (2) will likely mean that some data is lost and i don't think option (1) is what people really want. which do you prefer? The point is of course, is there a threat, or is the ambiguously enough for other providers not to touch it because the same could happen to their information. If there is none, 1 is good enough. Because people perceive `freeness' in different levels. I still would find it a lot better if there was actually a copyright distinction. But without getting people between layers compete for `freeer' data. Honestly I don't see why some of you are only focused on contracting 'SA'; therefore I wonder what would happen if the opposite method was used; attribution only, like is legislated in the Bern convention. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.13 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAksbTpoACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn0wfwCeJ20dIKbztt+z2m5VFbD2tB+B u7UAoJFGNbt/OIt4uSgVREWta+SYJSH8 =EZ87 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSMF: The people you are going to hand over your OSM data ...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Lambertus schreef: Sorry, but I don't see a lot of OSM people going over to 'the dark side'. No matter how good or bad OSM is being run. If I don't agree with how things are being done here at OSM then I'll try to fix it, work around it or quit, but I'm *not* going to be an unpaid employee for Google's mega profits. So you do not mind to be part of the (mega-) profits and success of Cloudmade, GeoFabrik, KPN, Bliin, Nulaz, Cyclomedia, Ilse Media, Trackrr, Flickr, [...], etc. but you do mind to be part of the success of Google. I'm just curious... why? Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.13 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAksc7SwACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn294ACbBEuRElmH4JteQC3+QOk/2msF 7VwAn28U/BJP8mNHH5/dMiRdpX5TiEYB =Vl63 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSMF: The people you are going to hand over your OSM data ...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Maarten Deen schreef: You cannot see the process how Cloudmade, Geofabrik and others process their data. You do not get anything back from how companies that use OSM for visual representation. And if Google offers OSM in GoogleEarth and maps you are actually benefiting from several things that you cannot get now: I thought that using OSM data now means also contributing to OSM. With the new license, is this not necessary anymore? Can you just take the data and not give back? Contribution 'upstream' (as in OSM) is not required now, the contribution and the derived works are made available on the same license. If your question is; Can anyone use OSM without giving back?, sure they can. Since 80n already pointed it out that the license change was actually invented to facilitate more usage (hence BBC Broadcasts for example) the chances that the big 'G' company is going to use OSM, might even increase by the license change. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.13 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAksc/nkACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn2AtACgkULm2iInI49Lld0iLaYl5Jdo 7AoAn2NG0PqZT9izweWQ7sG/5Z0bsg2w =G2D1 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSMF: The people you are going to hand over your OSM data ...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Anthony schreef: There's nothing stopping them from putting the tile servers behind a restrictive TOS, requiring a key to use the API, and limiting the number of accesses per key, is there? Is there for Cloudmade? The routing api, their custom tiles? It is `free' data, if they want to offer a service they can limit it to what they want. The competition is here that someone else can offer it without the restrictions and /without/ the SLA. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.13 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAksdB00ACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn11/wCeMGCiDobyviAQfSl7LLB4k7Ww IZYAn1ZOSZgl1O6pf5f5wJgzYvuEuEEv =8LuO -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSMF: The people you are going to hand over your OSM data ...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Anthony schreef: You're confusing me with Lambertus. I never said anything good about Cloudmade. I'm not confusing you; it is current practice that the data is used. I thought that was a /good/ thing. At least I came here for the usage of data and being making it better, for me that implicitly meant sharing back. Actually, Cloudmade is one of the main reasons I fear handing so much power (the power to relicense) to OSMF. Too much of a potential conflict of interest there. Come on; if you want to see a conspiracy there is always one. I think the best way to prevent this 'power' is to give more people the freedom to do what they want. The point now with the license seems to be a copyright claim by the OSMF prevents /any/ future forks. While the only possible fork point is actually created by this license change. If you read the first line of the last paragraph again you might notice that this might also prevent any commercial party to run away with OSM. But I need an law degree to confirm that. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.13 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAksdCscACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn3CNACfR11pvhwhYgiU990atBV/mMcE /p8Ania59HhkCUBXx/2sZ3U/b+BBSyPB =2VZl -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSMF: The people you are going to hand over your OSM data ...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Lambertus schreef: I have no problems with Google using my data, but only if others can use it too, which means that the database should be accessible (the planet dump). Your contributions are PD, which goes ever further, so you agree with this? Yes. From your standpoint Google could make maps out of OSM data today, if changes to that data are contributed back, or make available. Nowhere is required to give up software that does the transformation. Anthony schreef: I think you are confusing me, because I think data use is a good thing too. In fact, that's why I'm against the ODbL, since it's *more restrictive* than CC-BY-SA. I see your point, but it is not my main concern to be against the change :) Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.13 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAksdGf8ACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn0FnQCfRNK96VnBsgfTvlcDmnv2/4PJ XNYAnizlvBdfx7h2n2yydr++G+pBaxS8 =/3DF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New OpenStreetMap iPhone Editor - Mapzen POI Collector
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Peter Körner schreef: Well TRAPI already exists for the purpose of providing efficient read only access to the data for an area. From the TRAPI wiki page: Trapi does not store all tags, so Trapi data should not be used to edit and upload back to openstreetmap. There are other implementation that current serve all tags ;) Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.13 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAksdKSoACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn1jwwCdHzOUUiiWj6Km0wyZLEQK2tqq 12QAni37FuAgUvtJ36YF25l+URe7uwBp =vEgH -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSMF: The people you are going to hand over your OSM data ...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 SteveC schreef: You cannot see the process how Cloudmade, Geofabrik and others process their data. Well the huge difference is that OSM is under a reciprocal license, What a difficult set of words were that; honestly never heard of those before. Google and others want us to be PD because they don't want to give anything back. Never heard that, if Yahoo is giving us aerial photography to trace, why wouldn't Google do that for us? CM wants to give back all the time, and does. I don't see how CM can compete in giving back new data, opposed to Google. Google is not related to OSM an anyway and they still 'do good' in sponsoring and like for many other OpenSource related projects GSOC. If CM's primary focus is on creating additional value to the data, for CM to profit from available data, then what CM is giving back is not in terms of being a data provider, but just a commercial user like any other. That makes asking for example for the optimized routing tables irrelevant because the data is a derived product, but useless for the community that doesn't have the software. If we go back to the no advantage not to share equilibrium where we all started from, that would be a great step a head. It already shows that when working on PD data we are making data better, I just can't see any argument that will debunk that statement when company X makes our data better. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.13 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAksdOK4ACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn3xeQCgk95LVr3rIZvJmxAzYS0B1olf IMEAmwXCLEVN3mzEMxxSadJxdrCtHh8F =la/Q -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSMF: The people you are going to hand over your OSM data ...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 SteveC schreef: I have no idea what that means. I had no idea about reciprocal license either. Ask Google. It might have something to do with the fact that they want to own all the data. Hint hint. I have asked Google; Tim was sitting there too. The only thing *we* have to present is a business case why it would be good for Google to provide us the 'can trace' material. I think the best business case would be: We trace your photo's for OSM, we provide you the traces. I see a total win-win here. Anyone that wants to make OSM better can help OSM by contributing to OSM and GoogleMaps. This is not cheap labor, this is value for photo's. I don't see how CM can compete in giving back new data, opposed to Google. See above. The world has moved on from thinking Google is a benevolent force, get with the times. And so do they about CM... and probably any company that doesn't give them Christmas presents. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.13 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAksdO7EACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn0QdgCgg5HtkAHX8NNijTrQw4Cggh6i i4UAmgNUP55QVRwi9GoSY+g0kwy9Og9Z =CMdO -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSMF: The people you are going to hand over your OSM data ...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 SteveC schreef: I think that developing their own tools, infrastructure, branding, product management... for MapMaker might give away what they think about that. I think you are a little bit biased. Only a little bit :) And if this is/becomes the OSM Foundation standpoint, I am not surprised such things will never get any follow up ;) Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.13 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAksdPfMACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn0iAACeJGYhj22d1S/IAGudXIWXbzbf BOoAn0z31NuMjdDubX7yRZhQBA5d8vRS =13aP -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSMF: The people you are going to hand over your OSM data ...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Frederik Ramm schreef: Totally true, and actually a good argument for the PD case. Anyone who takes OSM data and improves it privately is likely to to invest much more in tracking OSM than it would cost him to just release his data into OSM and save the effort. But exactly the same goes for OSM. If there is a high quality source that updates lets say every 3 months. It will be more easy to destroy all changes than track them. Which is kinda... unwanted. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.13 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAksdTdEACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn1PPACePujvfO1NlrBrBWsGWA3FcZJw dBAAnjkaPP6BrSUL9XmQPFFYJK9yqRXg =hMRZ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Announce] OSMF license change vote has started
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 SteveC schreef: doesn't apply to Geodata. Because...? Factual data. What you are attempting to enforce is the viral effect, which directly is what you also try to overcome... Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.13 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAksen48ACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn0nLACfXx/T1yYnWXfkOgThxtKdFQy7 VnEAnAxqnTT32cSte4ToMqJMEQusXaSq =sOzE -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Announce] OSMF license change vote has started
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 SteveC schreef: So I can't license data because it's factual? You cannot /copyright/ the data because it is factual. A license for what you couldn't /copyright/ in the first place is not an analogy of GPL vs BSD. Anyway, back on planet Earth, there are lots of people who do want OSM to be virally licensed. You guys reiterating the great BSDvGPL holy war with pseudo legal arguments isn't going to change that. The amount of people wanting to go PD with their data is probably the inverse to the amount of people to want to keep viral. So try to win the battles you can win, otherwise maybe the best way forward is to ask the users if /any fork/ could continue with PD/CC0. What do you think TeleAtlas and NavTeq think about that? Have they been wasting their time all these years? Basically getting in contracts with users. Asking a per user fee for a mapping service. As pointed out by lawyers before, the only thing in OpenStreetMap that is getting protection by law is the rendered map, and where applicable the database. Same count for TeleAtlas and NavTeq. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.13 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAkseox0ACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn3RQgCfY0ki/CXZRdemiq3apmybyVNN h2oAnA3JPXVsYcBZTx6kbCoa231AW1LY =Rdht -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Announce] OSMF license change vote has started
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 SteveC schreef: SteveC schreef: So I can't license data because it's factual? You cannot /copyright/ the data because it is factual. A license for what you couldn't /copyright/ in the first place is not an analogy of GPL vs BSD. Why not? It's incredibly similar. You're on the BSD side, morally. I'm on the GPL side. Anyone that traces their trails might think this action is creative. If that was as creative as writing a computer program or an algorithm[1] that did this for you... then one probably understand that one is not making a Rembrandt. [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mapgenerator Anyway, back on planet Earth, there are lots of people who do want OSM to be virally licensed. You guys reiterating the great BSDvGPL holy war with pseudo legal arguments isn't going to change that. The amount of people wanting to go PD with their data is probably the inverse to the amount of people to want to keep viral. Sigh. Based on what? Based on that crappy poll? You have to be kidding. The universe doesn't only consist only of PD people on this list you know. There's a ton of people who are pro-SA and they tend to be the more rational ones who can't be bothered with yet another dumb poll or to comment back whenever someone brings up some pseudo-legal argument based on their 'university of life' education. The OSM universe doesn't end at the OSMF members either. So I wonder what you are trying to prove here with /your/ vote. Statistical relevance? So try to win the battles you can win, otherwise maybe the best way forward is to ask the users if /any fork/ could continue with PD/CC0. I would love to watch a PD fork slowly die. Please start one. If we can get into a contractual agreement that your... [oh nevermind] Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.13 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAkseplIACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn1W1wCeJgH2SgC3mxEcKHAdr1YrHBVr iwgAnj/p+jJHxF1a8A3NzuX9nKUy4mXx =qsVh -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Announce] OSMF license change vote has started
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 SteveC schreef: Anyone that traces their trails might think this action is creative. If that was as creative as writing a computer program or an algorithm[1] that did this for you... then one probably understand that one is not making a Rembrandt. Don't run away from the point. Stop switching between your legal and moral arguments. I know all about the legal side. Well done. Wait what? You are blaming me for giving you a full blown proof that a computer program can do the same as all the GPS tracers and I get slapped? So what *do* you want to hear? That these persons should be protected against theirselves for doing this work for free? The point is that *morally* you want the data to be PD and *morally* I want it to be SA. The legal points you make are just supporting cases that you're cherry picking to help you. I don't *morally* want PD, I *morally* want attribution. And if companies or individual are sucking out only. The viral aspect will only affect what they produce, not what they bring back. Since the people that are against attribution INCLUDE the companies you want to open to; for example the broadcast industry, the choice is limited to *use* or *not use*. I go for the *use*, if the work is done anyway. Just because that Indian tracing on the otherside of the world could do something better with his time and energy. Mine? It's the LWGs. Asking the membership is a very credible thing to do - ask those who care enough to be a member. They're the ones the OSMF represents. And you represent the OSMF, so it is your LWG :) Next to that care enough to be a member, please... you almost make me cry. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.13 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAkseq04ACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn3nDgCgkX4NXL8SsPWkwngcjtQBFwGJ wcoAoJWjsqgoFD4O38c3/1/gCS0/f8nq =5dem -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Announce] OSMF license change vote has started
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 SteveC schreef: On Dec 8, 2009, at 12:38 PM, Stefan de Konink wrote: The point is that *morally* you want the data to be PD and *morally* I want it to be SA. The legal points you make are just supporting cases that you're cherry picking to help you. I don't *morally* want PD, I *morally* want attribution. There you go! Everything else is window dressing to support your moral argument. Now I can in good conscience point you at the decades of BSDvGPL argument. Why do you want to sit around repeating it? Is it? I'm currently perfectly fine with the fact that attribution is guaranteed by the OSM license currently used. I'm not fine with the fact I cannot share with people after a license change because they don't want to adopt a new license :) Because I do care; 4.5 basically kills your SA argument... Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.13 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAksesbwACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn29CgCfW1URl96VtF3VZN5Tgq2t86Tq cSQAmQEzZbd0fknO4UF3jWCiz5wStdUH =pY9F -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Announce] OSMF license change vote has started
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 SteveC schreef: On Dec 8, 2009, at 12:53 PM, Anthony wrote: On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 2:50 PM, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote: You asked why it doesn't work, and there is a wealth of information on the list and the wiki... There are a lot of claims on the list and the wiki that CC-BY-SA doesn't work, but that doesn't make them true. Trevor, let me guess that you feel people with actual law degrees like the two that helped the LWG are wrong and you are right based on your 6th sense? Until anyone has been, or is sued. Anyone with a law degree defending a statement is at most an advocate. The judge (in a fair legal system) has the only final word on them, if you don't want to wait for that thats ok with me. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.13 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAkseslMACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn1aYACgkHz02a+AELsBe5jK06f0/tVh nTcAnRHlEYBMG1cpWgDRN2pbim0qJq98 =GYQP -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Announce] OSMF license change vote has started
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 SteveC schreef: You're really advocating switching license without asking anyone? Isn't he merely stating that if you truly believe CC-BY-SA doesn't protect the data, you don't have to ask anyone to do so? Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.13 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAkseuqcACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn32RgCfSHYvAqslXMz79sfj1DbpV2Pw 8iYAnjbgGh6LnolU78pTOQ/+Cma4a5LW =OC0d -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Announce] OSMF license change vote has started
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 SteveC schreef: On Dec 8, 2009, at 1:44 PM, Stefan de Konink wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 SteveC schreef: You're really advocating switching license without asking anyone? Isn't he merely stating that if you truly believe CC-BY-SA doesn't protect the data, you don't have to ask anyone to do so? to do what, relicense? Exactly; if your statement is sound. CC-BY-SA doesn't protect us, thus doesn't protect us against ourselves, thus OSMF could declare the data today as ODbL, and wait to get sued by the editors that doesn't like this change, if the CC-BY-SA holds the relicense has just been made a copyright infringement and therefore wasn't required in the first place. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.13 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAksevF4ACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn1MwQCfX2V0LyMh3oDAH8KNLXRhPR/G ysAAn0y/IAZo4o7Jqm7DIuUKMBX+N1po =kc1P -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Announce] OSMF license change vote has started
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 SteveC schreef: You're really advocating switching license without asking anyone? Isn't he merely stating that if you truly believe CC-BY-SA doesn't protect the data, you don't have to ask anyone to do so? to do what, relicense? Exactly; if your statement is sound. CC-BY-SA doesn't protect us, thus doesn't protect us against ourselves, thus OSMF could declare the data today as ODbL, and wait to get sued by the editors that doesn't like this change, if the CC-BY-SA holds the relicense has just been made a copyright infringement and therefore wasn't required in the first place. So you really are saying the LWG / OSMF should just ignore everyone and change the license? This is the /only/ way to prove that CC-BY-SA is enough to have your original data protected. If the outcome of such case would be that it was legally sound to do so, you can victoriously claim that what the OSMF was in the best interest of the project. ...but if the case was actually lost. CC-BY-SA would be suitable for OSM, nothing changes and everyone is happy. Now this is the point where the positive people come around again. But the BBC can't use our pretty pictures. Then the SA people should say: we don't care they don't share. Your wish for consensus makes by definition your statement pro the change based on 'CC-BY-SA is not enough' a thing that people like me never buy unless there was a valid example where it actually /wasn't enough/. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.13 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAksevxgACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn234gCghLGJcgso9/mvnnK4GU+u94Mi BT0AnjIsTR6+Gs00NHAhUqLEKgMoHkJQ =HVqv -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Announce] OSMF license change vote has started
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 SteveC schreef: Why don't you do it then, try and fork to CC0 or PD with planet.osm ? Because I'm not convinced that CC-BY-SA won't hold ;) Especially related some recent cases over here with the claim This was our intention the intention for OSM is extremely clear. But maybe I can discuss this with a company that might want to try it. Nope not Google. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.13 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAksewrMACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn11yACgjWzWzqg+d98BBowolLCwQ9f7 hWsAoIpon7KxUpH/cuTdkjQQyKVrntkp =BgE2 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Announce] OSMF license change vote has started
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Hi Frederik, Frederik Ramm schreef: Stefan de Konink wrote: Exactly; if your statement is sound. CC-BY-SA doesn't protect us, thus doesn't protect us against ourselves, thus OSMF could declare the data today as ODbL, and wait to get sued by the editors that doesn't like this change, if the CC-BY-SA holds the relicense has just been made a copyright infringement and therefore wasn't required in the first place. This is factually correct, but would you not expect a degree of friendliness over and above the call of law from those who run the project you contribute to? If we can get sponsors for servers maybe a sponsoring for a legal case wouldn't be a bad idea at all. If the OSMF could make a clear statement 'if CC-BY-SA holds we are not going to change it', the friendliness is there and it will be in all our best interest. I don't think that sorry guys, we tricked you into contributing under an invalid license, now all your stuff is basically PD anyway and we're going to relicense it in any way we want is an attitude that would attract anyone to the project! Hey SteveC tricked us all in here! Not to blame the rest of the board. ;) And Steve, I am still thankful I ended up in this project when I was Googling other people collecting GPS trails :) And I don't think you are honestly suggesting that either. The point that Steve makes is based on the fact he can't trust the CC-BY-SA anymore for the function he has used it before (mainly no other licenses being available). The only way to prove this would be a case. And don't forget, if a full database dump is made available under CC-BY-SA knowingly it is all PD, wouldn't that be a MUCH worse situation in this respect? Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.13 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAksexI8ACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn0ZDgCfUL+uJ7xIIsxz8MKIfThP6rxt 8TMAoIB6EHSzIe8ZHMRJGhqNbCxYypJw =SuxJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Announce] OSMF license change vote has started
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 SteveC schreef: On Dec 8, 2009, at 2:18 PM, Stefan de Konink wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 SteveC schreef: Why don't you do it then, try and fork to CC0 or PD with planet.osm ? Because I'm not convinced that CC-BY-SA won't hold ;) So if IP lawyers cannot convince you, who or what can? A ruling where CC-BY-SA data is being thrown back in to the normal copyright law because the license is void. (Termination clause CC) OSMF vs OSM Contributors sounds totally cool here. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.13 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAksexa0ACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn1i5QCdERsafj036Np/UHow7LOM5nJ0 bqUAmgIASemw97qF8jvAge1xMt3fdZyu =x0KW -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Google launches Indigenous Mapping workshop
Op 23-12-09 21:35, Roy Wallace schreef: Via http://google-latlong.blogspot.com/2009/12/indigenous-mapping-new-google.html Google and the Indigenous Mapping Network are teaming up to put on a two day workshop on the Google campus to teach people from native communities how to use Google's mapping technologies. I wonder if the Indigenous Mapping Network have heard of OSM? Looking at their Twitter they do :) Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Host free ortophotos to be used on OSM
On Tue, 5 Jan 2010, enqd wrote: I would like to ask if OSM or anyone can host this images to be used on OSM. The images are here: ftp://geoftp.ibge.gov.br/mapas/ortofoto/ Will be great to Brazilian users if we have this images as base to add streets and places on OSM. Hope someone can host it, thanks. OpenAerialMap is probably your biggest chance for hosting. Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Unions seem to be complaining about potential job losses if OS data is given away for free..
Op 10-01-10 05:30, John Smith schreef: http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/4826436.New_threat_to_jobs_at_Southampton_s_Ordnance_Survey/ Sounds like the OS didn't have a RD department nor a business department. If your entire operation is based around we do something, you can buy it, then any competition would kill your revenue and eventually your company :) Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
