Re: [talk-au] Geoscience NATMAP 250K Topo Maps
On Wed, 2013-11-13 at 19:13 +1100, Andrew Harvey wrote:
Just a heads up that GA have a tile service for their NATMAP 250K Topo
Maps.
Thanks Andrew, I thought the list might be interested in a few comments
about this service.
Firstly, really cool that they are doing it !
Putting aside the licensing issue, I am not sure how useful the data is
wrt populating OSM. Its all pretty dated, I spotted a number of age
related errors in just the areas I am familiar with. So, I'd suggest
that armchair mappers could not use it to to update roads, park
boundaries and things like that.
On the other hand, it might be useful (licence permitting !) when
working on geographical features that don't change much and are
difficult to survey. Creek and river beds come to mind.
Lee was interested in historical location names from memory...
My interest was seeing those maps in FoxtrotGPS, while Foxtrot cannot
handle the Z/Y/X map structure, its pretty easy to sneak under it and
pull the maps down into its cache, renaming as you go.
I found that zoom level 12 appears to be the only really useful set. The
other levels are just an expansion or contraction of the level 12
images. Level 10 might just be usful as a key map, its sort of
recognisable.
I pulled down all of Victoria at level 12 and level 10 and it took up
about 180M. Certainly a useful alternative to OSM and Google maps.
David
On Wed, 2013-11-13 at 19:13 +1100, Andrew Harvey wrote:
Just a heads up that GA have a tile service for their NATMAP 250K Topo Maps.
So if you add this to JOSM/etc you can use this as a base layer to
derive information from.
http://www.ga.gov.au/gisimg/rest/services/topography/NATMAP_Digital_Maps_250K_2008Ed
ition_WM/MapServer/tile/{zoom}/{y}/{x}
The map is CC BY 3.0 AU as per
http://www.ga.gov.au/topographic-mapping/digital-topographic-maps/using-attributing-products.html
However as per the contributor terms I don't believe OSM allows one to
derive information from CC BY works and include this in OSM
(https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/624/can-i-use-or-trace-from-cc-by-data-under-the-new-contributor-terms
but) and attach the attribution to the feature as per the usual
methods, unless you requst some kind of special license above and
beyond what GA already grant via the CC license.
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Re: [talk-au] Geoscience NATMAP 250K Topo Maps
On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 08:34:46 +1100 David Bannon dban...@internode.on.net wrote: On Wed, 2013-11-13 at 19:13 +1100, Andrew Harvey wrote: Just a heads up that GA have a tile service for their NATMAP 250K Topo Maps. Thanks Andrew, I thought the list might be interested in a few comments about this service. Firstly, really cool that they are doing it ! Putting aside the licensing issue, I am not sure how useful the data is wrt populating OSM. Its all pretty dated, I spotted a number of age related errors in just the areas I am familiar with. So, I'd suggest that armchair mappers could not use it to to update roads, park boundaries and things like that. On the other hand, it might be useful (licence permitting !) when working on geographical features that don't change much and are difficult to survey. Creek and river beds come to mind. Lee was interested in historical location names from memory... Some gotchas I've found using the topo 250k combined with higher resolution subsets (e.g maps derived from the 10K 50k sets) is that they are not consistant in the placement of objects, with variations of up to 300 metres. The completeness of labeling of objects also falls off as resolution reduces. I have also noticed that projection seems to be inconsistant between sets. These observations may well be my incompetence. To gain some confidence in what I've collected I plan to drive as many roads in my area of interest (Glen Innes, NSW) several times with my two GPS units recording and find an acceptable level of coincidence before I add anything to OSM. Mick aka 'sparrowhawk' ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Geoscience NATMAP 250K Topo Maps
On Wed, 2013-11-20 at 10:32 +1100, mick wrote: To gain some confidence in what I've collected I plan to drive as many roads in my area of interest (Glen Innes, NSW) several times with my two GPS units recording and find an acceptable level of coincidence before I add anything to OSM. Mick, your GPS should give you some 'quality' measure along with its positional information. Look in the XMl, you will see it under HDOP. The basic GPS system (end to end) could deliver answers within 5 to 6 metres. But there are also 'geometry issues associated with aerial and satelite position that multiplies that error. HDOP is a measure of this geometry problem and you multiply it by the by the systems intrinsic errors. At a hdop of 10 and a satellite / receiver intrinsic error of, say, 6 meters, we have an uncertainty of 60 meters. Thats getting a bit high for most use. In some scripts distributed with FoxtrotGPS to clean up tracks for OSM, I set an HDOP limit of 8, points greater than that are rejected. You could, perhaps, apply the same rule to your data. Re-drive the ones that have too many data points greater than 8 HDOP. Now, I have greatly simplified the subject, you can be almost certain someone with a lot more knowledge of DOP and GPS accuracy will clarify it for us ! That would be a good thing ! david Mick aka 'sparrowhawk' ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Geoscience NATMAP 250K Topo Maps
From: Andrew Harvey [mailto:andrew.harv...@gmail.com] Subject: Re: [talk-au] Geoscience NATMAP 250K Topo Maps We'd have to get confirmation that data source was happy with attribution in accordance with ODbL sections 4.2 and 4.3 which are keep intact any copyright or Database Right notices or a notice associated with the Produced Work reasonably calculated to make any Person that uses, views, accesses, interacts with, or is otherwise exposed to the Produced Work aware that Content was obtained from the [the datasource] That is a pity. The fact that OSM can't accept CC BY licensed works is reminding me why I stopped contributing to OSM many months ago... If taken literally CC BY's attribution requirements are very onerous. Creative Commons themselves appears to recognize this and the 4.0 drafts have much more reasonable attribution language, more in line with the ODbL. Even under CC BY-SA there were some data providers who felt that the conventional attribution methods for web maps were insufficient and we still couldn't use CC BY data without confirmation. I believe when CC 4.0 comes out its attribution will be compatible with ODC attribution, so we'll finally stop having to deal with the CC attribution flaws. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Geoscience NATMAP 250K Topo Maps
On Fri, 2013-11-15 at 18:30 +1100, Andrew Harvey wrote: but I don't see the benifit in hosting them when GA already do a pretty good job at this. If your application doesn't support z/y/x then patch it, and if you can't it would be much simpler to just proxy the GA tile server to give a z/x/y endpoint. In the case of FoxtrotGPS, I'll prepopulate its cache with the GA files, transforming from z/y/x to z/x/y in the process. FoxtrotGPS always checks it's cache before looking to download. Not hard. FoxtrotGPS only looks for .png files but if it finds JPEG files with a .png extension, its quite happy :-) David ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Geoscience NATMAP 250K Topo Maps
Ah, thats good news Paul. Back when I was using it (the ECW library or SDK) you got the C code under a restrictive license (fair enough) from ER Mapper. But they withdrew that and said it would be re-released as a Windows only precompiled module. No use to Linux user All a long time ago, glad the situation has improved. David On Wed, 2013-11-13 at 15:36 -0800, Paul Norman wrote: From: David Bannon [mailto:dban...@internode.on.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 2:13 PM Subject: Re: [talk-au] Geoscience NATMAP 250K Topo Maps Then the license holder withdrew the ecw plugin for GDAL... There's still an ECW plugin for GDAL. It requires the third-party SDK and you'll have to compile gdal yourself, which is annoying. Creating ECW files is what takes purchasing a license. If there's ECW files where it would be beneficial to host them, I could do or someone else could. We'd have to get confirmation that data source was happy with attribution in accordance with ODbL sections 4.2 and 4.3 which are keep intact any copyright or Database Right notices or a notice associated with the Produced Work reasonably calculated to make any Person that uses, views, accesses, interacts with, or is otherwise exposed to the Produced Work aware that Content was obtained from the [the datasource] ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Geoscience NATMAP 250K Topo Maps
On 14 November 2013 10:36, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote: If there's ECW files where it would be beneficial to host them, I could do or someone else could. They are at http://www.ga.gov.au/products/servlet/controller?event=PRODUCT_SELECTIONkeyword=natmap but I don't see the benifit in hosting them when GA already do a pretty good job at this. If your application doesn't support z/y/x then patch it, and if you can't it would be much simpler to just proxy the GA tile server to give a z/x/y endpoint. We'd have to get confirmation that data source was happy with attribution in accordance with ODbL sections 4.2 and 4.3 which are keep intact any copyright or Database Right notices or a notice associated with the Produced Work reasonably calculated to make any Person that uses, views, accesses, interacts with, or is otherwise exposed to the Produced Work aware that Content was obtained from the [the datasource] That is a pity. The fact that OSM can't accept CC BY licensed works is reminding me why I stopped contributing to OSM many months ago... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Geoscience NATMAP 250K Topo Maps
Just a heads up that GA have a tile service for their NATMAP 250K Topo Maps.
So if you add this to JOSM/etc you can use this as a base layer to
derive information from.
http://www.ga.gov.au/gisimg/rest/services/topography/NATMAP_Digital_Maps_250K_2008Ed
ition_WM/MapServer/tile/{zoom}/{y}/{x}
The map is CC BY 3.0 AU as per
http://www.ga.gov.au/topographic-mapping/digital-topographic-maps/using-attributing-products.html
However as per the contributor terms I don't believe OSM allows one to
derive information from CC BY works and include this in OSM
(https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/624/can-i-use-or-trace-from-cc-by-data-under-the-new-contributor-terms
but) and attach the attribution to the feature as per the usual
methods, unless you requst some kind of special license above and
beyond what GA already grant via the CC license.
___
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Re: [talk-au] Geoscience NATMAP 250K Topo Maps
Interesting Andrew. Do you know much about this service ?
I have been trying to display it in FoxtrotGPS which normally uses OSM
or Google tiles. But I find two puzzling things -
1. While I request png files I seem to get JPEG
2. Their Y and X number system seems to be miles away from where I'd
expect it to be. I need to browse to somewhere in Antarctica, south of
Africa before I could get any (Aussie) tiles back. I used to understand
the numbering system, sigh, better get my old notes out..
Anyway, Foxtrot is quite confused, does display tiles but somehow in the
wrong order, interesting !
David
David
On Wed, 2013-11-13 at 19:13 +1100, Andrew Harvey wrote:
Just a heads up that GA have a tile service for their NATMAP 250K Topo Maps.
So if you add this to JOSM/etc you can use this as a base layer to
derive information from.
http://www.ga.gov.au/gisimg/rest/services/topography/NATMAP_Digital_Maps_250K_2008Ed
ition_WM/MapServer/tile/{zoom}/{y}/{x}
The map is CC BY 3.0 AU as per
http://www.ga.gov.au/topographic-mapping/digital-topographic-maps/using-attributing-products.html
However as per the contributor terms I don't believe OSM allows one to
derive information from CC BY works and include this in OSM
(https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/624/can-i-use-or-trace-from-cc-by-data-under-the-new-contributor-terms
but) and attach the attribution to the feature as per the usual
methods, unless you requst some kind of special license above and
beyond what GA already grant via the CC license.
___
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Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
___
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Re: [talk-au] Geoscience NATMAP 250K Topo Maps
On 13 November 2013 22:01, David Bannon dban...@internode.on.net wrote: Interesting Andrew. Do you know much about this service ? I know that they also publish the original ECW files, which I originally converted to JPEG and hosted on my own server as a service which converted these into web map tiles, until I found that GA already have such a service! GA are using ArcGIS Server to serve the tiles, but they do conform to the same specification as OSM tiles. 1. While I request png files I seem to get JPEG I don't think they serve PNG files, only JPEG. 2. Their Y and X number system seems to be miles away from where I'd expect it to be. I need to browse to somewhere in Antarctica, south of Africa before I could get any (Aussie) tiles back. I used to understand the numbering system, sigh, better get my old notes out.. Anyway, Foxtrot is quite confused, does display tiles but somehow in the wrong order, interesting ! Make sure you are using z/y/x and NOT z/x/y (so it is different to OSM tiles) otherwise it will look like one of those puzzles. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Geoscience NATMAP 250K Topo Maps
Ah, z/y/x ? that makes sense. FoxtrotGPS does not do z/y/x. Just what I'd expect from GA, worked with them indirectly some time ago. Another life. I also played with pulling png tiles out of the GA ECW maps but gave up dealing with their website, they made endless changes that broke firefox each time. Got sick of explaining to their tech (??) people that I found it difficult to run Internet Explorer under linux. (So even then they were not keen on open standards !) Then the license holder withdrew the ecw plugin for GDAL... Anyway, this new GA tile server still sounds cool, will have to look into what can be done. Thanks for your help. David On Wed, 2013-11-13 at 22:20 +1100, Andrew Harvey wrote: On 13 November 2013 22:01, David Bannon dban...@internode.on.net wrote: Interesting Andrew. Do you know much about this service ? I know that they also publish the original ECW files, which I originally converted to JPEG and hosted on my own server as a service which converted these into web map tiles, until I found that GA already have such a service! GA are using ArcGIS Server to serve the tiles, but they do conform to the same specification as OSM tiles. 1. While I request png files I seem to get JPEG I don't think they serve PNG files, only JPEG. 2. Their Y and X number system seems to be miles away from where I'd expect it to be. I need to browse to somewhere in Antarctica, south of Africa before I could get any (Aussie) tiles back. I used to understand the numbering system, sigh, better get my old notes out.. Anyway, Foxtrot is quite confused, does display tiles but somehow in the wrong order, interesting ! Make sure you are using z/y/x and NOT z/x/y (so it is different to OSM tiles) otherwise it will look like one of those puzzles. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Geoscience NATMAP 250K Topo Maps
From: David Bannon [mailto:dban...@internode.on.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 2:13 PM Subject: Re: [talk-au] Geoscience NATMAP 250K Topo Maps Then the license holder withdrew the ecw plugin for GDAL... There's still an ECW plugin for GDAL. It requires the third-party SDK and you'll have to compile gdal yourself, which is annoying. Creating ECW files is what takes purchasing a license. If there's ECW files where it would be beneficial to host them, I could do or someone else could. We'd have to get confirmation that data source was happy with attribution in accordance with ODbL sections 4.2 and 4.3 which are keep intact any copyright or Database Right notices or a notice associated with the Produced Work reasonably calculated to make any Person that uses, views, accesses, interacts with, or is otherwise exposed to the Produced Work aware that Content was obtained from the [the datasource] ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
