Re: [talk-au] Mapping surf breaks

[Simon Slater]

On Thursday, 25 August 2022 15:44:30 AEST Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
> Earlier I mentioned about the Kirra Superbank that only occurs a "few"
> times per year. While the rest of the year is perfectly acceptable, those
> few times are exceptional! (Think rides over 1 km long! :-))

I am definitely no surfer, but what about tidal bores?   Apparently Australia 
has some: https://www.australiangeographic.com.au/blogs/tim-the-yowie-man/
2020/01/surfing-the-mysterious-tidal-bores-of-australia/ 

-- 
Simon Slater

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Re: [talk-au] Mapping surf breaks

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 at 17:34, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Ssurfing_typical=*
>
> surfing_exceptional=*
>
Yep, that'd probably work.

Another one I thought of is swell_period=xx seconds

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] Mapping surf breaks

[Warin]

On 25/8/22 15:44, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:


On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 at 11:43, Josh Marshall 
 wrote:



I tasked the kid with drawing the ideal surf map, and he’s really
stuck into it… and it’s given me more to think about how the
features should be drawn.


Please do share when ready, as I am also well & truly /not/ a surfer! 
(I'm actually a boatie so I'm / they're the enemy! :-))


I like the idea of separate tags too:
- some may be more necessary than others
- better than trying to cram them all into one
- can be added to over time, rather than a formalised :conditional=


Yep.

Always feet. When surfers talk about wave size, it’s much like
fishing aficionados talking about the size of their catch, if you
know what I’m getting at.


Perfectly!

But “size” is variable, what would need to be tagged is “minimum
swell size” for a break to be rideable… which is a more scientific
measure and reported formally.


Hmmm, wouldn't that then vary concerning the board? You often hear the 
news say "it'll only be a couple of feet / knee high (& does that 
option need mentioning?), so break out your small wave board & head on 
down"



I found this article to be the most succinct and detached summary
of conditions required for particular breaks:
https://unravelsurftravel.com/understanding-waves/


Yep, good article, but one bit there made me think?

" To surf the best waves possible you need to know how different swell 
directions impact upon a particular surf spot"


How do we say that the ideal, best conditions are "this", but usual 
conditions are "that"?


Earlier I mentioned about the Kirra Superbank that only occurs a "few" 
times per year. While the rest of the year is perfectly acceptable, 
those few times are exceptional! (Think rides over 1 km long! :-))


Can you think of any way of tagging normal v ideal?



Ssurfing_typical=*

surfing_exceptional=*


??



  Thanks

Graeme


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Re: [talk-au] Mapping surf breaks

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 at 11:43, Josh Marshall 
wrote:

>
> I tasked the kid with drawing the ideal surf map, and he’s really stuck
> into it… and it’s given me more to think about how the features should be
> drawn.
>

Please do share when ready, as I am also well & truly *not* a surfer! (I'm
actually a boatie so I'm / they're the enemy! :-))

I like the idea of separate tags too:
> - some may be more necessary than others
> - better than trying to cram them all into one
> - can be added to over time, rather than a formalised :conditional=
>

Yep.


> Always feet. When surfers talk about wave size, it’s much like fishing
> aficionados talking about the size of their catch, if you know what I’m
> getting at.
>

Perfectly!


> But “size” is variable, what would need to be tagged is “minimum swell
> size” for a break to be rideable… which is a more scientific measure and
> reported formally.
>

Hmmm, wouldn't that then vary concerning the board? You often hear the news
say "it'll only be a couple of feet / knee high (& does that option need
mentioning?), so break out your small wave board & head on down"


> I found this article to be the most succinct and detached summary of
> conditions required for particular breaks:
> https://unravelsurftravel.com/understanding-waves/
>

Yep, good article, but one bit there made me think?

" To surf the best waves possible you need to know how different swell
directions impact upon a particular surf spot"

How do we say that the ideal, best conditions are "this", but usual
conditions are "that"?

Earlier I mentioned about the Kirra Superbank that only occurs a "few"
times per year. While the rest of the year is perfectly acceptable, those
few times are exceptional! (Think rides over 1 km long! :-))

Can you think of any way of tagging normal v ideal?

  Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] Mapping surf breaks

[Josh Marshall]

Hi Graeme and all,

I tasked the kid with drawing the ideal surf map, and he’s really stuck
into it… and it’s given me more to think about how the features should be
drawn.

On 25 Aug 2022, at 9:20 am, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

Wondering whether you need to have conditional at all?

How about

sport=surfing
surfing:direction=NE
surfing:size=4ft
surfing:wind=W-SW

& make it clear in the wiki that these are the typical / usual conditions.



I take away the point from your comment that surf breaks are *always*
conditional, so it’s superfluous to name them so.

I agree.

I like the idea of separate tags too:
- some may be more necessary than others
- better than trying to cram them all into one
- can be added to over time, rather than a formalised :conditional=

surfing:size=4ft


One thing about size. Here at least (GC) surf reports always quote feet,
not metres. Does that change by location?


Always feet. When surfers talk about wave size, it’s much like fishing
aficionados talking about the size of their catch, if you know what I’m
getting at.

But “size” is variable, what would need to be tagged is “minimum swell
size” for a break to be rideable… which is a more scientific measure and
reported formally.

I found this article to be the most succinct and detached summary of
conditions required for particular breaks:
https://unravelsurftravel.com/understanding-waves/

Cheers,
Josh
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Re: [talk-au] Mapping surf breaks

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 at 23:00, Josh Marshall 
wrote:

> The primary "conditions" are swell direction and size, wind direction and
> tide. I have yet to fully think them through, but my instinction is to do
> it in a fashion similar to `:conditional` (
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Conditional_restrictions), perhaps:
>
> sport=surfing
> surfing:conditional=swell-direction@NE-E;swell-size@3m+;wind@S-WSW (and
> so on)
>

Wondering whether you need to have conditional at all?

How about

sport=surfing
surfing:direction=NE
surfing:size=4ft
surfing:wind=W-SW

& make it clear in the wiki that these are the typical / usual conditions.

One thing about size. Here at least (GC) surf reports always quote feet,
not metres. Does that change by location?

 Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] Mapping surf breaks

[Josh Marshall]

Hi Frederik,

At first I was a little annoyed at what I thought to be obvious things to
consider in your message, as what I am trying to do with this discussion is
exactly to cover those issues... but I always run a little search first,
and that very much changed my tune to saying I am quite honoured to have
you reply to my little proposal. :)

I am also a non-surfer, but my son is approaching elite level (it's not
from my side of the family), and so this is somewhat a collaborative
effort, and he has become quite engaged by the thought of an open
repository of information on surfing.

He has already prepared a spreadsheet with all the attributes required to
describe a break, which are practically identical already to those
suggested by Phil Wyatt in the response following yours. The primary
"conditions" are swell direction and size, wind direction and tide. I have
yet to fully think them through, but my instinction is to do it in a
fashion similar to `:conditional` (
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Conditional_restrictions), perhaps:

sport=surfing
surfing:conditional=swell-direction@NE-E;swell-size@3m+;wind@S-WSW (and so
on)

Now in another sense this is getting a bit ahead of the game... I am
thinking as a part of this there would need to be a dedicated map
server+site for highlighting the surfing options (hopefully I will have the
time for this)... and until there is I think it's okay to experiment with
the tagging. Because in general a surfer would also be able to determine
the conditions by looking at the map and a current weather forecast.

So I am collating all these thoughts, and will put them together into the
discussion on the sport=surfing tag to take it forward, while doing a
little experimentation in my local area.

Regards,
Josh

On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 at 20:48, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> non-Australian and non-surfer here but please remember that stuff you
> map in OSM must be reasonably verifiable.
>
> If you map a great surf spot which only exists when some external
> conditions align, then it might be hard for others to verify (they'd
> have to wait for the conditions to align).
>
> As a non-surfer I would assume that "the wind and waves are just right"
> is something that could make a perfect surf spot nearly everywhere, and
> surfers would not be helped by a map showing lots of spots that might be
> great if "the wind and waves are just right" ;)
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
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Re: [talk-au] Mapping surf breaks

[Warin]

On 24/8/22 20:45, Frederik Ramm wrote:

Hi,

non-Australian and non-surfer here but please remember that stuff you 
map in OSM must be reasonably verifiable.


If you map a great surf spot which only exists when some external 
conditions align, then it might be hard for others to verify (they'd 
have to wait for the conditions to align).


As a non-surfer I would assume that "the wind and waves are just 
right" is something that could make a perfect surf spot nearly 
everywhere, and surfers would not be helped by a map showing lots of 
spots that might be great if "the wind and waves are just right" ;)



Mapping the typical would be what interest most as that would be the 
more frequent thing and therefore the most usefull.


Using conditional tagging it should be possible to specify the right 
conditions.???


Something like

waterway:conditional=surf_break @ NE swell

surf_break=right

I'd assume that the local swell is more important than the local wind?

Verifiable ... well non surfers won't be that interested particularly if 
it does not render on common maps. That also reduces the number of non 
surfers who would use the tags to get something on the map. So I think 
only the surfers will be looking at these and they should understand the 
verification of them and if they are infrequent then they may not be of 
much interest unless significant enough to have a reputation, and that 
reputation should be enough to verify the mapping.





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Re: [talk-au] Mapping surf breaks

[Phil Wyatt]

Hi Folks,

 

It might also be good to see how current surf sites rate and classify breaks 
and try and incorporate common language in the tagging

 

https://www.wannasurf.com/spot/Australia_Pacific/Australia/TAS/Hobart/index.html

 

https://www.wannasurf.com/spot/Australia_Pacific/Australia/TAS/Hobart/seven_mile_point/index.html

 

https://surfing-waves.com/atlas/asia/indonesia/bali.html

 

Cheers - Phil

 

From: Andrew Harvey  
Sent: Wednesday, 24 August 2022 2:21 PM
To: Jake Coppinger ; Josh Marshall 

Cc: OSM Aust Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Mapping surf breaks

 

On Tue, 23 Aug 2022 at 18:18, Josh Marshall mailto:josh.p.marsh...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Are there any concerns on me taking the idea and running with it? It would be 
good at least to flesh out the wiki page on what tags can or should be applied. 
I already have a spreadsheet from the grommie on the various attributes of a 
surf break (left and right waves, tide/swell/wind required). Does this require 
a formal proposal? 

 

My own pause relates to how even though surf breaks are physical locations 
(would be mapped as either areas or points), they are tied to underwater 
features and topography such as reefs, not necessarily visible from the 
surface. And so will rely heavily on local knowledge. But if not rendered by 
default, there’s no problem with that, right?

 

It would be great to see surf breaks better mapped!

 

I would suggest just start tagging ones you know well, invent your own tags, no 
proposal needed so you can be liberal with experimenting with the tags and how 
the features are represented. Over time I'd recommend documenting your tags on 
the wiki, if eventually into a proposal, to gain a more global point of view 
and consensus.

 

natural=surf_break

surf_break=* (beach, reef, shipwreck, etc)

sport=surfing

name=* if named

 

Points or areas should be good. Would linear ways make sense sometimes? Right 
hand side could indicate direction waves break? 

 

On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 at 13:45, Jake Coppinger mailto:j...@jakecoppinger.com> > wrote:

> tl;dr - I’m interested in getting more surfing-centric tagging into OSM, 
> hopefully leading to an open surfing map.

As an avid surfer (Sydney region) and OSM contributor I love the sound of this!

 

Something I note that is missing on the wiki 
(https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:sport%3Dsurfing) is how to tag 
something when surfing isn't an option at a beach - the absence of 
`sport=surfing` on a beach node may just mean it hasn't been surveyed yet. 
Being able to query all surfable (or exclude non-surfable) beaches would be 
great for a road trip or choosing a campsite.

 

For example, Brighton-Le-Sands never has waves as it's in Botany Bay. 
`sport=none` wouldn't make sense as it's a great spot for windsurfing (and 
beach cricket etc :D). Is there space for a tag like `surfing=unsuitable` or 
`waves=minimal` to be added to a `natural=beach`?

 

If we could start over I'd advocate for natural=coastline on the land/sea 
border only, and natural=shoreline for other borders. Would it be safe to 
assume beaches along the sea/ocean edge are surf beaches and beaches along bays 
or harbours are not?

 

surfing=yes/no should act like the rest of the access tags, meaning are you 
allowed to surf or not, rather than is it any good for surfing.

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Re: [talk-au] Mapping surf breaks

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

non-Australian and non-surfer here but please remember that stuff you 
map in OSM must be reasonably verifiable.


If you map a great surf spot which only exists when some external 
conditions align, then it might be hard for others to verify (they'd 
have to wait for the conditions to align).


As a non-surfer I would assume that "the wind and waves are just right" 
is something that could make a perfect surf spot nearly everywhere, and 
surfers would not be helped by a map showing lots of spots that might be 
great if "the wind and waves are just right" ;)


Bye
Frederik

--
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Re: [talk-au] Mapping surf breaks

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 at 14:24, Andrew Harvey 
wrote:

>
> Points or areas should be good. Would linear ways make sense sometimes?
> Right hand side could indicate direction waves break?
>

How would you go with areas that only work on occasion, usually when the
wind & waves are just right e.g.
https://www.surfline.com/surf-news/what-makes-superbank-sand-snapper-kirra-greenmount/48459
?

 Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] Mapping surf breaks

[Andrew Harvey]

On Tue, 23 Aug 2022 at 18:18, Josh Marshall 
wrote:

> Are there any concerns on me taking the idea and running with it? It would
> be good at least to flesh out the wiki page on what tags can or should be
> applied. I already have a spreadsheet from the grommie on the various
> attributes of a surf break (left and right waves, tide/swell/wind
> required). Does this require a formal proposal?
>
> My own pause relates to how even though surf breaks are physical locations
> (would be mapped as either areas or points), they are tied to underwater
> features and topography such as reefs, not necessarily visible from the
> surface. And so will rely heavily on local knowledge. But if not rendered
> by default, there’s no problem with that, right?
>

It would be great to see surf breaks better mapped!

I would suggest just start tagging ones you know well, invent your own
tags, no proposal needed so you can be liberal with experimenting with the
tags and how the features are represented. Over time I'd recommend
documenting your tags on the wiki, if eventually into a proposal, to gain a
more global point of view and consensus.

natural=surf_break
surf_break=* (beach, reef, shipwreck, etc)
sport=surfing
name=* if named

Points or areas should be good. Would linear ways make sense sometimes?
Right hand side could indicate direction waves break?

On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 at 13:45, Jake Coppinger  wrote:

> > tl;dr - I’m interested in getting more surfing-centric tagging into
> OSM, hopefully leading to an open surfing map.
>
> As an avid surfer (Sydney region) and OSM contributor I love the sound of
> this!
>
> Something I note that is missing on the wiki (
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:sport%3Dsurfing) is how to tag
> something when surfing *isn't* an option at a beach - the absence of
> `sport=surfing` on a beach node may just mean it hasn't been surveyed yet.
> Being able to query all surfable (or exclude non-surfable) beaches would be
> great for a road trip or choosing a campsite.
>
> For example, Brighton-Le-Sands never has waves as it's in Botany Bay.
> `sport=none` wouldn't make sense as it's a great spot for windsurfing (and
> beach cricket etc :D). Is there space for a tag like `surfing=unsuitable`
> or `waves=minimal` to be added to a `natural=beach`?
>

If we could start over I'd advocate for natural=coastline on the land/sea
border only, and natural=shoreline for other borders. Would it be safe to
assume beaches along the sea/ocean edge are surf beaches and beaches along
bays or harbours are not?

surfing=yes/no should act like the rest of the access tags, meaning are you
allowed to surf or not, rather than is it any good for surfing.
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Re: [talk-au] Mapping surf breaks

[Jake Coppinger]

> tl;dr - I’m interested in getting more surfing-centric tagging into OSM,
hopefully leading to an open surfing map.

As an avid surfer (Sydney region) and OSM contributor I love the sound of
this!

Something I note that is missing on the wiki (
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:sport%3Dsurfing) is how to tag
something when surfing *isn't* an option at a beach - the absence of
`sport=surfing` on a beach node may just mean it hasn't been surveyed yet.
Being able to query all surfable (or exclude non-surfable) beaches would be
great for a road trip or choosing a campsite.

For example, Brighton-Le-Sands never has waves as it's in Botany Bay.
`sport=none` wouldn't make sense as it's a great spot for windsurfing (and
beach cricket etc :D). Is there space for a tag like `surfing=unsuitable`
or `waves=minimal` to be added to a `natural=beach`?

Cheers,
Jake






On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 at 13:11, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

>
>
>
> On Tue, 23 Aug 2022 at 22:35, Josh Marshall 
> wrote:
>
>> And better yet, why aren't our beaches, like the typical patrolled
>> locations marked in such a way as that swimming_area too?
>>
>
> After creating the lifeguard tag, I've now worked out that this seems to
> be the best combo for mapping all the options:
>
> Beach:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/986850716#map=16/-28.0317/153.4363
>
> Lifeguard tower: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/1047542652
>
> Surf Club: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/262819470
>
> SLSC: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/9632543252
>
> Scope creep, anyone? This gets me more engaged, because I go to the beach
>> plenty even if I don't surf myself. Starting to smell like an Aussie wiki
>> page on how to tag beaches and surf spots.
>>
>
> I've wondered myself about adding lifeguards / savers on there?
>
>  Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
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Re: [talk-au] Mapping surf breaks

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Tue, 23 Aug 2022 at 22:35, Josh Marshall 
wrote:

> And better yet, why aren't our beaches, like the typical patrolled
> locations marked in such a way as that swimming_area too?
>

After creating the lifeguard tag, I've now worked out that this seems to be
the best combo for mapping all the options:

Beach: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/986850716#map=16/-28.0317/153.4363

Lifeguard tower: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/1047542652

Surf Club: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/262819470

SLSC: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/9632543252

Scope creep, anyone? This gets me more engaged, because I go to the beach
> plenty even if I don't surf myself. Starting to smell like an Aussie wiki
> page on how to tag beaches and surf spots.
>

I've wondered myself about adding lifeguards / savers on there?

 Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] Mapping surf breaks

[Josh Marshall]

On Tue, 23 Aug 2022 at 20:02, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 23/8/22 18:15, Josh Marshall wrote:
>
> tl;dr - I’m interested in getting more surfing-centric tagging into OSM,
> hopefully leading to an open surfing map. And want to check on what would
> be appropriate. In an analogous way to how cycling is treated, along with
> trail running, my own sports of choice.
>
> Hi, welcome.
>
Thanks! But I've been lurking and sporadically posting here for a long time
now. I see what goes on! But mainly stick to editing my local area and
anywhere I visit.

Mostly land based things. Can you give a few examples?
>
> I found this one,
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/1009395310
>
> looks to be both surfing sand swimming...
>
Yes, that's exactly the sort of thing. And better yet, why aren't our
beaches, like the typical patrolled locations marked in such a way as that
swimming_area too? Scope creep, anyone? This gets me more engaged, because
I go to the beach plenty even if I don't surf myself. Starting to smell
like an Aussie wiki page on how to tag beaches and surf spots.

This is my local... I spend plenty of time here, even sometimes just parked
in my van and remote working. Perhaps I should do some mapping/tapping
based on what we discuss there, then bring it back for further chat?
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/-32.92433/151.79302

Are there any concerns on me taking the idea and running with it? It would
> be good at least to flesh out the wiki page on what tags can or should be
> applied. I already have a spreadsheet from the grommie on the various
> attributes of a surf break (left and right waves, tide/swell/wind
> required). Does this require a formal proposal?
>
> There are those that say yes to a formal proposal, others nay.
>
> You may have noticed my Hills Hoist thing.. I raised it here to see what
> reaction I got and to seek ideas. I have now raised it on the tagging group
> for more of an international view and will raise it on the russian wiki
> page on the 'umbrella' tag.
>
> I would think you may get some feed back here to start with.. then raise
> it on the talk page
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:sport%3Dsurfing
>
Yep, your post on the Hills Hoist probably helped prompt me into this
idea... and I've added my own thoughts there. Hills Hoist mapathon, anyone?

I might try mapping just a handful of the local breaks to tease out some of
the nuance, then write up and post on the wiki talk page.

As the break would be a water feature I'd use a water tag
> waterway=surf_break ??? That could be a way where the break first occurs ..
> possibly sub tags such as break=left/right/* This would be the physical
> feature for use with sport=surfing...
>
> Just my idea.. you may have more/different?
>
That's exactly the sort of thing I was after. It is *visible* after all,
just a bit hard to explain, so a waterway=surf_break makes sense.

My own pause relates to how even though surf breaks are physical locations
> (would be mapped as either areas or points), they are tied to underwater
> features and topography such as reefs, not necessarily visible from the
> surface. And so will rely heavily on local knowledge. But if not rendered
> by default, there’s no problem with that, right?
>
> The surf break may be visible on some of the satellite imagery. Mapbox off
> Tamarama Beach, Sydney looks large.
>

Yep, noted as well. I checked the ones near me... some visible on aerial,
some not. Guessing it depends on conditions!
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Re: [talk-au] Mapping surf breaks

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Tue, 23 Aug 2022 at 18:18, Josh Marshall 
wrote:

> tl;dr - I’m interested in getting more surfing-centric tagging into OSM,
> hopefully leading to an open surfing map.
>
> Are there any concerns on me taking the idea and running with it? It would
> be good at least to flesh out the wiki page on what tags can or should be
> applied
>

Go for it! :-)

There's a couple of well-known surfing spots near here, with one tagged as
a tourist attraction https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5587431022 & the
other was apparently mapped by kayakers as a waterway hazard!
https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=17/-28.09305/153.46069

A uniform way of doing things would be great, & I'm amazed that nothing has
been done before now.

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] Mapping surf breaks

[Warin]

On 23/8/22 18:15, Josh Marshall wrote:
tl;dr - I’m interested in getting more surfing-centric tagging into 
OSM, hopefully leading to an open surfing map. And want to check on 
what would be appropriate. In an analogous way to how cycling is 
treated, along with trail running, my own sports of choice.



Hi, welcome.




The long story:
My teenage son is quite the avid bodyboarder, and we just got back 
from at weekend at the Aussie national championships in Port 
Macquarie… Which leads into me realising as I try to wrap my head 
around the sport, that there’s very little surfing-centric content in 
OSM. Doubly strange in Australia. And we’re homeschooling, so… hello 
geography, cartography, environment, etc, lessons.


I printed out a map of our local (Newcastle) beaches using 
fieldpapers.org , and got him to draw them in, 
then uploaded it.  The FP page is here: 
https://fieldpapers.org/snapshots/ubcffu8v but that doesn’t seem to 
display the output properly, download the geotiff to view. Here’s the 
map tiles of it: 
http://tiles.fieldpapers.org/snapshots/ubcffu8v/{z}/{x}/{y}.png 



I looked up what was already present in OSM, and it centres on the tag 
sport=surfing, https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:sport%3Dsurfing
According to the overpass query https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1lgi it is 
already applied to a few surf breaks (sometimes not very precisely), 
surf shops, venues, and learn-to-surf organisations. I will explore 
more thoroughly.



Mostly land based things. Can you give a few examples?

I found this one,

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/1009395310

looks to be both surfing sand swimming...





Are there any concerns on me taking the idea and running with it? It 
would be good at least to flesh out the wiki page on what tags can or 
should be applied. I already have a spreadsheet from the grommie on 
the various attributes of a surf break (left and right waves, 
tide/swell/wind required). Does this require a formal proposal?



There are those that say yes to a formal proposal, others nay.

You may have noticed my Hills Hoist thing.. I raised it here to see what 
reaction I got and to seek ideas. I have now raised it on the tagging 
group for more of an international view and will raise it on the russian 
wiki page on the 'umbrella' tag.


I would think you may get some feed back here to start with.. then raise 
it on the talk page


https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:sport%3Dsurfing


As the break would be a water feature I'd use a water tag 
waterway=surf_break ??? That could be a way where the break first occurs 
.. possibly sub tags such as break=left/right/* This would be the 
physical feature for use with sport=surfing...


Just my idea.. you may have more/different?



My own pause relates to how even though surf breaks are physical 
locations (would be mapped as either areas or points), they are tied 
to underwater features and topography such as reefs, not necessarily 
visible from the surface. And so will rely heavily on local knowledge. 
But if not rendered by default, there’s no problem with that, right?
The surf break may be visible on some of the satellite imagery. Mapbox 
off Tamarama Beach, Sydney looks large.



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