Re: [talk-au] suburb boundaries
Hi Franc, Great job. One thing I've noticed, in my area anyway (Whitsundays), is that it's given the outlines of some of the national parks. Cape Conway NP but not Dryander NP. So these could be updated as part of the relation as well. Having said that what would be the best way to go about it, tag etc. -- Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 11:46:44 +1100 Franc Carter franc.car...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, The upload has completed (much faster running from dev). There were a couple of problems:-] * Gruyere and 'Wandin North - Bar' in Victoria, which I *believe* I have fixed * Beatrice and Ellinjaa in Queensland which are too complex for me to fix as I don't have local knowledge cheers -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Rivers
So what is the problem you are having, if not with the location or the tag? Making a river look like a river... Put more nodes in the way that shows the river. Had a look at what you have done but given the lack of hi-res images from yahoo there is not much else that can be done. Welcome to OSM. You can use the imagery available, you can walk the line I'm not quite fit enough to walk/run the 130+ km of track :) Find where roads cross the railway and note these as gps points then interpolate between them. with a GPS, you can find and interpolate from surrounding features, points, or a combination of the above. You can find an out of copyright map from when the railway was built, which may be able to use to map the route once you have one or two points. The line shows on parish maps, I'll have to try and get access to them from the library or something. Be careful of copyright issues. What is the town you are mapping? Inverell, NSW Not 100% sure if what I've done so far is right or not, but there was only a handful of streets when I started. Please include a source tag eg source=survey so when someone else comes along they can update if better info available. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Rivers
--- On Tue, 19/5/09, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: The source tag is part of the OSM data not part of the GPS information, have a look at the source tag on Glen Innes Road. I thought information could be included in the GPX files that would be imported by something, JOSM or OSM itself? AFAIK it is only lat, long and elevation data. How did you enter the name and surface tags for the ways. The source tag is the same. Roundabouts. Here we go again;) Have a read of this: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Roundabouts It would be nice to have options of various sized round about icons, similar to how google depicts these round abouts on their map. I could say something like that's google and not osm but have a look at the roundabouts below: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-20.40263lon=148.58529zoom=17layers=B000FTF As you zoom in you will see them change, these are drawn in roundabouts. Here is the same area in google maps. http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=qsource=s_qhl=engeocode=q=proserpine,+qldsll=-20.401636,148.581496sspn=0.121796,0.153809g=proserpine,+qldie=UTF8ll=-20.402619,148.583221spn=0.015224,0.019226z=16 Works basically the same. Your gpx files should give you the correct sizes to make the roundabouts. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Rivers
AFAIK it is only lat, long and elevation data. How did you enter the name and surface tags for the ways. The source tag is the same. GPX files can contain a lot of data and meta data, the schema for GPX 1.1 can be found here: http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1 Well aware of that, I've been using them for osm uploads for 2-3years. However osm only uses a very limited set so lat, long and elev are all that is currently used by osm, you have to enter all other tags manually. Have a read of some of the info here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=gpx I could say something like that's google and not osm but have a look at the roundabouts below: I've drawn, probably wrong, at least one round about already, but that isn't what I meant, I meant for uniform round abouts a few different round about sizes would make less work for people. Your gpx files should give you the correct sizes to make the roundabouts. GPS can be a car width or more wrong, although the more GPS tracks you can start applying averaging etc. But it still will give you a good indication on how big to draw the roundabout. Most of this stuff is in the wiki you just need to have a read through it. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Rivers
I've drawn, probably wrong, at least one round about already, but that isn't what I meant, I meant for uniform round abouts a few different round about sizes would make less work for people. I gather you mean the way at the intersection of Gwydir Highway and Byron Street. A few things wrong with it Tags not required: clockwise, oneway The way is drawn backwards, in potlatch you can reverse the way by selecting it and then clicking on the button in the bottom left corner. By drawing the way in the correct direction it will be recoginised as clockwise. Additional tag required: junction=roundabout This tells the renderer/router that it is oneway. You could also probably half the number of nodes in the way as well, generally you only need 8 nodes to create a suitable roundabout on the map. One at each entry for four streets and one between each street entry. Have a look at the ones I pointed out before in Proserpine for an idea of how it works. By using josm it also allows you to align the nodes in a circle, and you can create one roundabout and then copy and paste. Once again this is in the wiki here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Rivers
On Wed, 20 May 2009 02:36:35 -0700 (PDT) Delta Foxtrot delta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: --- On Wed, 20/5/09, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: You could also probably half the number of nodes in the way as well, generally you only need 8 nodes to create a suitable roundabout on the map. One at each entry for four streets and one between each street entry. Have a look at the ones I pointed out before in Proserpine for an idea of how it works. I did what you suggested but it's a bit of a larger round about and it looks more like a octobout more than a round about. You will have to wait until the tile is re-rendered to see what it looks like on the slippy map. Unless its super large 500m across it will give reasonably good output. If it does look a little bit jagged then add more nodes. -- Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Rivers
On Fri, 22 May 2009 20:52:47 +1000 Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: Having said that I have since found a mini-roundabout in Mackay, next time I'm there I'll take a photo and post it to the mailing list. It is just a low dome approximately 1m in diameter with appropriate signage. There is/was several of those in Sydney, as long as you don't get caught they were fun to jump on motorbikes... there are separate tags for traffic calming devices and no, we don't have mini-roundabouts in australia, they are all roundabouts. Agree totally Liz but I did find one that matched the description in the wiki. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Rivers
On Sun, 24 May 2009 08:15:41 +1000 Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net wrote: On Sun, 24 May 2009, Delta Foxtrot wrote: Have a read of this: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Roundabouts there are separate tags for traffic calming devices and no, we don't have mini-roundabouts in australia, they are all roundabouts. Well according to the link you posted we do: English language Wikipedia has a more liberal definition of mini-roundabout [[2]] Mini-roundabouts can be a painted circle, a low dome, or often are small garden beds. The low dome ones are the fun ones. I posted that link and the sentence on that page: After considerable research and discussion at mailing list level, the designation mini-roundabout has no place in Australian mapping. sums up the current position. So don't use mini-roundabout. This is a colabrative effort when it comes to marking up items, not just what each person feels like entering because they think that's correct it has to be consistent Australia wide not just in your little patch. That's why you need to read the full wiki and when the mailing list suggest you are doing something different to current practice then listen to the consensus and accepted practice of what people are doing. It's like the source tags, they need to be there so that others don't redo particularly ways that are tagged survey but know that we need to update ways that are tagged landsat, interpolated, etc. The only wiki that is acceptable definitions for openstreetmap is the openstreetmap wiki -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Rivers
On Sun, 24 May 2009 09:42:07 +1000 Matt White mattwh...@iinet.com.au wrote: There's a current position? I just re-read the roundabout thread, and I couldn't see any actual consensus - plenty of decent argument, which is good as it didn't degenerate into a free for all - but no actual outcome. No real surprise there - only maybe 10 people actually took any active part in the conversation, so it was always going ot be a minority decision, and it looks that the views were basically evenly split... I think people are still mapping mini roundabouts hither and yon - I personally can't really see the issue - but at least they are getting marked... Matt The consensus was what was written into the wiki. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Rivers
On Sun, 24 May 2009 11:42:48 +1000 Matt White mattwh...@iinet.com.au wrote: There's a current position? I just re-read the roundabout thread, and I couldn't see any actual consensus - plenty of decent argument, which is good as it didn't degenerate into a free for all - but no actual outcome. No real surprise there - only maybe 10 people actually took any active part in the conversation, so it was always going ot be a minority decision, and it looks that the views were basically evenly split... I think people are still mapping mini roundabouts hither and yon - I personally can't really see the issue - but at least they are getting marked... Matt The consensus was what was written into the wiki. My point is that I can't find the consensus just cos it's in the wiki doesn't make it a consensus. Here was the final post in the discussion from November/December last year which occured in January this year. http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/2009-January/001301.html The wiki was changed after this not before the discussion began. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Roundabouts etc
On Sat, 23 May 2009 23:08:40 -0700 (PDT) Delta Foxtrot delta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: The way I see it everything is relative, I notice a discussion on the use of villiage/city/hamlet/town etc and applying it to Australia, you can't apply UK/US definitions to Australian places based on population simply because of how sparsely populated Australia is, so why try and show horn UK definitions of road features into Australia. PS the mapnik render doesn't seem to show towns or hamlets when zoomed out even if there is nothing for 100s of km from them. So therefore don't use mini_roundabouts as they are not defined in any Australian Highway definition and your trying to do exactly the same thing you are saying about village/city/hamlet/town etc but with roads. I agree with the comment about consistency, so in that line of thinking you'd have to generate some stats on the number of mini-roundabouts used and the number of junction=roundabouts in combination with some kind of method of detecting small roundabouts to see what the majority of them are at to gain what the real consensus is. Probably a pointless exercise as one person may use only mini-roundabouts for all the roundabouts they plot where as someone else draws in all roundabouts but has only entered half as many as that's all they have so far plotted. This would not generate a consensus just a bunch of statistics with no real value. And just for info based on the current Australia.osm file there are 5218 roundabouts and 3779 mini_roundabouts, of these mini_roundabouts 1401 have a FIXME tag requesting someone to change them to a real roundabout. You can check the list archives from about November, into mid December I'd much rather spend time enhancing maps than rehashing arguments, it comes back to your conclusionary opinion in the pdf you linked to, that there should be a couple of roundabout options for nodes, if for no other reason to simplify the process of specifying a roundabout and to minimise the number of nodes needed to do it. Ok then include source tags on the ways you upload. Use JOSM's align nodes in line where appropriate. Roundabouts were discussed to death last year and the wiki shows what the opinion at the time was. As the wiki requests don't use mini_roundabouts. Looking at your gps tracks there is a deviation on these that would indicate that they are not mini_roundabouts but more like the last picture on the wiki page. The landuse=residential that you have entered is inaccurate, looking at the sat pictures I can see industrial areas and areas with nothing at all included in it. Remember you asked the list for opinions on how the information you were adding looked and of course people will answer as they see it. If you don't want to listen to their opinions and accept them as their then don't ask. When I first started mapping to OSM I was given a number of hints after my first few uploads, (to many nodes in ways was one). I listened to these people and now spend less than halve the time I first did to upload this information and the areas I've mapped are the better for it. If the majority of people are responding to you not to use mini_roundabouts then do you think that might be a good idea. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Causeways
On Sun, 24 May 2009 04:48:05 -0700 (PDT) Delta Foxtrot delta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: What's the best way to tag causeways, I've only managed to find a couple of non-official references, and nothing on this page. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features Perhaps highway=ford Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Causeways
On Sun, 24 May 2009 05:38:56 -0700 (PDT) Delta Foxtrot delta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: --- On Sun, 24/5/09, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: Perhaps highway=ford I did see that earlier but for some reason thought it was different, just looked at the full sized photo and it certainly looks like a causeway, thanks for pointing that out. Another question I thought of after I sent that email, how to show a road narrows to cross the cause way, I actually know of a few bridges that are one way at a time too but they aren't marked or tagged. lanes=1 -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Rivers
Why are you using the source tag survey? There have been a number of arguments that it should not be used as a tag unless you are actually using survey equipment. It is suggested to use GPS instead, if that is what you are getting your readings from. (These where on the talk list, not the talk_au one) Read the wiki http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features source = survey gpx track or other physical survey Until this is changed then it will be survey. And just that they are only arguments nothing has been decided, most surveyors use gps only now anyway. Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Causeways
On Tue, 26 May 2009 07:31:01 +1000 Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: On Tue, 26 May 2009, Delta Foxtrot wrote: My original question was in relation to concreate slab crossings which technically aren't fords because they dry far more often than wet, and they aren't raised at all so they're not bridges. I can't find an example of what I mean, I'll have to take a photo of one and post it online in the next few days. the definition of it being wet is a pommie problem you need rain before they get wet we don't even have a marker for rivers or lakes which are seasonal (ie, usually dry) i'm not at all bothered if you label a ford ford when the creeks dry - if the creek had water it would be wet?? I agree Liz, I was just thinking pretty much exactly the same thing a few minutes ago when Delta's post arrived. It's totally a factor of the state of the watercourse in question. I agree with Darrin and Liz on this. The openstreetmap wiki also says any water it does not mean that there has to be water over the ford all the time. I take this as if there is water over the ford then a vehicle will have to enter it. The part that says The road crosses through stream or river is more significant as we mark these (stream or river) whether they are flowing or not so if the road passes through it rather than over it on a bridge then it's a ford. I would also consider the case where some roads have pipes ( 1m dia) that run under the road so that when water level is low as it runs under the road but with rain in the area it readily flows over the road. The road also drops down to just above, or becomes part of, the river bed as opposed to staying at or above the river banks. There is also the situation with large diameter pipes (1m dia) where the road stays well above the river bed and is at the same height as the banks. I've always thought of these as culverts but as osm has no definition for this I have marked them as bridges as that's generally what they are. It's either a ford or a bridge that you cross through or cross over a stream or river on. A bridge does not require that you drive through the water if there is water flowing in the stream or river, a ford does even though some may have pipes under them as well. Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Cheap data logger
On Wed, 27 May 2009 02:49:56 -0700 (PDT) Delta Foxtrot delta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: I'm wondering if anyone knows of any cheap GPS data loggers that I can lend out to people, I'm thinking postal delivery workers here, that in and off itself it won't be worth stealing, something without a screen. I'm sure there are other situations this could be useful as well, but it would most likely need a battery that will last 6 hours or a cig socket plug maybe a suction cup to get a half decent reception in a car. Does anyone know of something like this? I was going to suggest a Kogan GPS watch but they don't appear to be selling them anymore. Has 10 point data capacity, 6hours on battery or can plug into car cigarette lighter socket. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Petition to MP
And the problem with importing things like roads from government databases is that they are the gazetted road position not the actual on ground road position. That's why google maps etc are so often incorrect. Thats why some of the ABS data does not line up with the actual plotted road. Here's an example http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-20.30721lon=148.54535zoom=16layers=B000FTF The roads are in their current place but when they were gazetted the ABS boundary is there. You can still see where the Bruce Highway used to be if you go to this intersection. Cheers Ross On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:08:33 +1000 b.schulz...@scu.edu.au wrote: This is not to say that administrative borders aren't useful, but if I was in a foreign country I'm much more interested in navigation, where to eat, where the closest toilet is etc than what suburb I'm in or exactly where the border of a national park is. So anyway, what I'm trying to get to is a consensus on what would be a more efficient use of our time: marketing to the masses or petitioning for government databases. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Hi all ...
JOSM can do all this offline and you don't have to upload the gps trace to the osm server before editing it. It is easy to use and for major work is better than potlatch. Have a read here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Comparison_of_editors Best of all if it doesn't look right don't upload it and restart. keepright for Australia is at: http://keepright.x10hosting.com It will show where there are errors in the current database. I also have it set up on a server here for my own use. Cheers Ross On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:20:51 +1000 Dan O'Hara oha...@homemail.com.au wrote: As a total newbie to this I was advised to use Potlatch as it was seen to be the easiest. I understand that JOSM and mercaator(sp?) are more sophisticated eg do proper roundabouts, but I wanted to graduate first! Also, I can not load (or view) maps from osm.org for some reason - I have to download or access OSM maps from other sources. In my trials and errors - I tried to tidy up my tracks in Mapsource before loading (eg the aimless wandering and chatting with others before a walk or the straight line that sometimes happens when you turn off then turn on the GPS in a different location without saving the track). However, i found out (after I had uploaded and traced) that some were still untidy. I ended up deleting a few of my uploads and reuploading. Lots of work for little return, particularly in a couple of cases. Can JOSM and Mercaator do this type of tidying up? Perhaps I should move in while still wearing my Ls? Ps what's keepright? -Original Message- From: talk-au-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-au-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Ross Scanlon Sent: Wednesday, 17 June 2009 10:11 PM To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [talk-au] Hi all ... On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 20:20:21 +1000 Dan O'Hara oha...@homemail.com.au wrote: I have two immediate questions (actually I have a lot but these have been preying on my mind as a result of my breach). When you go to an attraction, be it an outdoor winery/farm tour or say, fun park or caravan park, are the tracks worthwhile to trace into OSM? Probably not, but they may be useful for marking out the boundaries of the attraction. Secondly, and unrelated to the first question . if tracks you place end up being radically different to the established map should you just stop at the track and not trace so others can see your green/blue track or should you put in a potentially conflicting trace? I am (slowly) gaining knowledge in some of the less obvious screens to see who placed what trace where but, for the same technical reasons as above I can not view maps on OSM so this has not been easy. See if the way has a source tag if it does and this is other than survey or gps then it's generally fair game to move it. As an aside to this why do people upload gps traces then trace them using potlatch etc? I've always used josm for big uploads/edits. Potlatch when I just want to quickly correct and error I've found or when using keepright. Load the area I'm working in from osm then loaded the gpx file into josm. I then edit the ways etc of the gpx files using the tools in josm, simplify way, align nodes in circle/line etc then upload the changes to osm. I don't have a problem with uploading gps traces to osm but I can see no benifit if I'm just going to edit them in josm anyway and given that they are all one second data that's a lot of data to put on the osm servers when not really necessary. Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Uploading traces (Was; Hi all ...)
Secondly, come the day when MegaMap Inc, decide to sue OSM, due to a part of the map looking suspiciously derived from MegaMap's products, the existance of GPS traces in OSM may assist greatly in defending against that threat. Also a good reason to use simplified gpx tracks from JOSM as then the points are exactly as the gpx track point not a traced/modified position. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Hi all ...
Who said I was trivialising the problems, I only gave an example I can think of at least 50 possible errors when using gps. I'm not going to list every possibility every time I make a comment. If you make specific claims then people will assume that's all you had in mind. What specific claims? I gave two examples (eg) of possible operator induced errors. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Uploading traces (Was; Hi all ...)
--- On Wed, 17/6/09, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: Generally it was directed at the comment should upload , made without anything to back it up and also rhetorical. Just because some think they should be uploaded does not mean everyone wants, or has, to. Should doesn't mean the same thing as must, I didn't say you must upload, I said you should (for the greater good). No kidding, I'm well aware of the difference betweend should and must. You did not say anything about the greater good and I've yet to see any reason that it is for the greater good. Arguments over being able to create a more accurate map when we are talking sub 2m distances in most cases are irrelevant. That's the distance between one gps and the other on one of my vehicles and not even the width of most roads. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Data Error - Junctions ?
you will see that none of the junctions for side roads are correctly joined to Luttrell Street. This problem appears to be repeated across the area generally.br They should be joined with nodes at the junctions for all junctions, T or cross roads. It does not make much difference to the renderers but does for routers like gosmore. I'll do a detailed GPS trace of the area and double check all of the street names, then assuming that I'm correct and all of these streets need to form standard junctions, I'll go ahead and edit the area street by street with my trace and street names for reference to correct the junction issue.br br I wonder why these don't show up in Keepright with the almost-junctions check?br br Maybe not close enough, or too many errors showing up as keepright only shows 100 at a time. Assuming this is an error on the part of the person who originally entered the data, is it prudent to contact them to let them know in case they continue to enter data this way ?br br Probably a good idea. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Uploading traces (Was; Hi all ...)
--- On Wed, 17/6/09, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: No kidding, I'm well aware of the difference betweend should and must. You keep implying must when I've said should. No i'm not implying must. I asked why SHOULD we be uploading them. You did not say anything about the greater good and I've yet to see any reason that it is for the greater good. Ummm if it isn't for the greater good, why else are we bothering to supply data and support OSM in various ways? The greater good is supported by the end product not by data (GPX files) that, although supports the end product, is not shown in the final map or routing solutions. I don't get any personal benefit at present using OSM derived maps in most places I'm likely to be and it might be a long time until I do. Yes I realise I've just made another very subjective statement and people in other areas will be able to benefit as is, but I'm trying to make a point about the philisphopical nature of the beast as much as any practical one. Do any of us? I've put in about 12000km's of ways and yes I'm getting more benefit daily but there are still places without osm data and if I'm going there I'll add data from them. Arguments over being able to create a more accurate map when we are talking sub 2m distances in most cases are irrelevant. That's the distance between one gps and the other on one of my vehicles and not even the width of most roads. Unless you have better than consumer grade kit you won't be consistently getting within 2m of accuracy all the time, and I think that sums the argument up right there, you're assuming you will. And yet again you are assuming I'm saying something totally different to what I'm saying. What I'm refering to is when there are multiple traces all less than 2m apart IN MOST CASES not the accuracy of the gps. Who said I don't have better than consumer grade equipment? Most consumer grade will be less than 5m but generally arround 10m depending on particular hardware used but that's a matter of checking the HDOP at the time. At no point did I say anything about getting 2m accuracy from consumer grade equipment. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Uploading traces (Was; Hi all ...)
If the data was challenged that I entered then osm can contact me for the original data. In the meantime why are we filling up storage on osm with data that is not producing the final product ie the map. Why do I need to challenge you to prove what you did was correct, if the GPX information is present and downloaded into say JOSM I can see if you did a good job or not, otherwise I am left guessing based on the data other people provided. I did not say you were challenging me. I'm talking about the final product being challenged by MegaMap Inc and osm being able to show where the data came from. osm if necessary could then obtain that data from me, the history of the origin of the data is in the database. No, if someone had better than consumer grade equipment then that should How do I take your word on that if you haven't proven yourself to be honest in this matter and shown your working out? How do I take your word for it when you use an anonymous mail address and don't sign your name to any email. be uploaded and locked so that it can not be changed except by the person uploading the data or on request to them. It would override the consumer grade equipment totally. Yes, people always tell the truth all the time, but that doesn't prove anything. I never said that users with better than consumer grade equipment should have an automatic right to this. There would of course have to be some sort of confirmation of capability by osm. What I am saying is that if known high quality data is available don't degrade it by averaging with known low quality data. But they are very rarely (less than once a year) wrong. News to me, I've had several devices with various brands of GPS chips in them and they will say for example 8m accuracy and be out by 100m at times. I especially noticed this since I started embedding OSM maps into an app I'm coding and the GPS accuracy will be within a reasonable tolerance, but the plot on the map will be all over the place. Hdop is not an indication of distance it is an indication of the confidence of the accuracy of the position and it is not readily translated to distance. So if you had an hdop of 8 then I would expect the position to be very inaccurate. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] How many points are too few to upload?
the other hand you can get 10,000+ point files being uploaded as well and I need to run gpsbabel over the file before uploading it. Does anyone know if this is a good filter to use against gpx files? gpsbabel -i gpx -f test -x simplify,crosstrack,error=0.0001k -o gpx -F test.gpx Before: 9180 points After: 3207 points Have you loaded both into josm and seen how they compare? That would give you an idication on how the filter affects the data. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Uploading traces (Was; Hi all ...)
* improving routing information, by working out average speed on roads (at different times). If your connected to the internet that's fine but it's no use for on the road re-routing, unless you have all the gps traces downloaded to your gps. This should be tagged by maxspeed anyway. Some one may have also driven the road really slowly (push bike) and some one may have done it at the speed limit. This would skew any reliability. * improving height maps, by taking (lots of) samples where altitude information was present. Pointless, vertical data is grossly out from a gps you are better off using the NASA dem data. * automatically guessing the number of lanes on a road, by looking at the variance of traces over sections in each direction. Should be tagged anyway (when more than 1) and how do you know it's not an accuracy problem. * automatically marking ways which haven't been looked at for a long time, so someone can revisit them to make sure they haven't changed. A good idea. * (insert your imagination here) If we had a trace here showing a person getting to a dead end, turning around and going back around the other way, then it would be much more convincing that the OSM data is correct. As it is, it is our word against google's. I was going to say look at the sat photo but that dosn't help as its covered over with trees. We have to trust that osm's are putting in accurate data but from what I've seen the data already there is miles better than google maps particularly in rural Australia. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Fw: Re: Hi all ...
On Thu, 18 Jun 2009 21:54:29 +1000 Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: On Wed, 17 Jun 2009, Ross Scanlon wrote: keepright for Australia is at: http://keepright.x10hosting.com It will show where there are errors in the current database. I also have it set up on a server here for my own use. I wasn't very impressed. Keepright showed me that every single one way street in two towns had non-joined nodes. However it was wrong, at least 90% of cases. It claimed misspelled tags when the tag said created_by=JOSM in a couple of cases. While I do see non-joined ways on the map which need correcting I don't like heaps of false positives. Noticed exactly the same as this myself tonight. When I've been using it I turn off everything except the items I am looking at in particular (left hand side of the screen). But agree it should not be showing as many false positives, the ones I saw were not there 1 week ago. Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] gmap observation
I'm not exactly surprised about residential street errors in regional areas in google maps, I stopped keeping count of the mistakes a while back, however its kind of interesting how badly they have the newell highway plotted. Comes back to gazetted roads. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] gmap observation
On Sat, 20 Jun 2009 02:00:12 -0700 (PDT) John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: --- On Fri, 19/6/09, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: Comes back to gazetted roads. With all the money and effort spent on street view you'd think they'd want to get every benefit possible from it. Typical big business only spend money when you have to. Why spend money when you can get it for nothing. Cheers Ross -- Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Someone needs some help.
Hi All, Just been using keepright to go over all the stuff I've uploaded and came across this: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-34.9987lon=117.8835zoom=13layers=B000FTF Now someone has done a admirable job of adding the ways but has not read the wiki about naming. Most of the names are in all upper case and the type of street is abbreviated in just about all cases. Does anyone know of an easy way to change the names to mixed case and or change the ST to Street etc. Mind you if your bored and have run out of your own uploads etc here's something to do. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Hi all ...
On Sat, 20 Jun 2009 06:06:56 -0700 (PDT) John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: --- On Sat, 20/6/09, John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: No one replied to my thread on gpsbabel, it can apparently exclude areas, and at the same time anonymise the time stamps and probably a whole lot more, but I couldn't figure out the polygon thing to make it exclude it. I meant to say in batches/bulk, so you just run a shell script/batch file and it processes an entire folders worth of gpx files in one hit. I've got some perl and shell scripts that do this for other things but not for gpsbabel. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] General mapping question :)
I think what you've marked is about all you can do. Obviously the road does not go all the way through and the gates at each end are the restriction. Cheers Ross --- On Thu, 25/6/09, Jason Stirk jst...@oobleyboo.com wrote: Not sure if this applies, but in many rural areas you'll find that public roads may be through gates marked as private property. I don't think it does, since I doubt a public road would go through a car port some how :) Also, looking at the sat imagery from google there appears to be some kind of dirt track for some of it, but there is also thick areas of trees and no sign of any kind of road. I though about marking it as a turning circle but there wasn't enough area to turn round and I had to do a 5 point turn. For instance, the road I live on passes through private property, has an (open) gate marked as private property, but this road is the only access to a few other properties behind it. I've also run into a few instances quite literally out the back of Bourke... 150Km along the 300Km Wilcannia-Bourke track to see a fence warning it's private property and trespassers will be shot at. It's still the main public road though... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Junctions (to name or not to name)
On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 09:41:38 +1000 Rick Peterson ausr...@iinet.net.au wrote: Hi Folks, Quick question about roundabouts. (junction=roundabout) Originally, I didn't name roundabout junctions, but when I validate my work in JOSM, it identifies them as 'Unnamed Ways' in the warnings section. I've tried naming a few using the name of the primary road that connects with the junction. The validation warnings disappear, however, the rendered work looks messy as the streets AND roundabouts get named at close zooms. See Mile End Road at Rouse Hill NSW at http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-33.68113lon=150.92323zoom=17layers=B000FTF for an example. I've had a look at the wiki information on junctions, however there doesn't seem to be any information about whether to name or not to name the junctions ( see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:junction%3Droundabout ) Any advice or comments ? Rick Name them. The current routers such as gosmore will not find a route through them without a name. Also add the osmarender:renderName=no and osmarender:renderRef=no tags, this does not work currently with mapnik but some renderers do use them. I know it looks messy but the information needs to be included and the renderers can be modified to exclude them, eg using gpsdrive I've rewritten the osm.xml file to not include names when there is a tag junction=roundabout for my own use, it's not in the general release. It's as simple as that to exclude the name from the renderer but it's there for gosmore routing. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Junctions (to name or not to name)
On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 09:41:38 +1000 Rick Peterson ausr...@iinet.net.au wrote: See Mile End Road at Rouse Hill NSW at http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-33.68113lon=150.92323zoom=17layers=B000FTF for an example. I've had a look at the wiki information on junctions, however there doesn't seem to be any information about whether to name or not to name the junctions ( see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:junction%3Droundabout ) Also need to tag them with the primary way type, in the above they should be tertiary. The above wiki page specifies this. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Junctions (to name or not to name)
On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 20:03:48 -0700 (PDT) John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: --- On Sat, 27/6/09, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: I agree with Darrin, we have some named roundabouts in this district. If gosmore needs a name to route someone down a street, around a roundabout or down a motorway link, that problem needs addressing too. I name roundabouts which have a name of their own, and leave the others unnamed. gosmore does not need a name to route via a street. Ummm not all streets are named, how does gosmore cope with that? This is not a problem with gosmore, the problem occurs where you have a street going through a roundabout without ANY name on the roundabout with the street named on both sides of the roundabout. It does not recognise the street continues through the roundabout and then out the other side. If there's no name on the streets or roundabout then it work's correctly. Likewise if the streets are named and the roundabout is named then there's not a problem. It seems like a bug with gosmore and it should just use the exit number like other software I've used, even though they probably have names for all streets. I don't believe it's a bug just a case of recognition of the street. The name could be of the roundabout and does not have to be the same as the street, it just works better when the roundabout is named. Also not all roundabouts have a primary way going through them, they can in fact be the junction of multiple primary ways, eg Gwydir and Newell Highways in Moree, and in fact the Gwydir Highway and New Highway share about 2 or 3 blocks or road before they split again. They should be tagged with the highest level way (ie the primary way) going through them (not necessarily highway=primary), it's on the wiki. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] NASA completes another elevation map
If your using gpsdrive or gosmore then you can integrate it for your own use anyway. Details are in the osm wiki. Cheers Ross Hmm, that's a bit annoying. The more restrictive license is probably due to the data being collected by Japanese equipment rather than purely NASA gear. Aw well, give it time. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Mini-roundabout archive
On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 13:21:39 +1000 Rick Peterson ausr...@iinet.net.au wrote: Can someone please direct me to the talk-au archive post where the discussion commenced on the topic of mini-roundabouts ? Thanks Rick ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au Not sure on the exact date but about October November 2008. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Tagwatch
If you attempt to download it other than clicking on the button you do not get the file. Found that out before. Just downloaded it and its 102mb. Cheers Ross --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Rick ausr...@iinet.net.au wrote: Is anyone interested in looking at configuring the script to work with an Australian OSM excerpt? (such as the daily extract at http://osmaustralia.org/osmausextract.php) I emailed the owner of that website last night because that extract is showing up as 22Bytes big... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Best linux mapping/routing setup
On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 11:58:29 + (GMT) John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: I recently acquired a 7 eeePC and I wondered what everyone is using for mapping/routing etc to be useful on small screens? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au I have the 9 eeePC running eeeBuntu standard with gpsdrive. The eeePC sits behind the drivers seat and I use an 7 touch screen mounted on the dash for display and control. My 4WD has a built in PC with similar setup with Ubuntu and 8 touch screen. In the sd card slot I have a 32gb card with all Australian topo maps, plus gmap for the whole of Australia at zoom 13. Additionally I have the osm data installed as part of the base install to run mapnik for gpsdrive. I have it setup with mapnik generated maps as the default and can swap to the topo or gmap as required, ie when I get to an area with no/little osm data. The biggest advantage to this is that whilst mapping you can see what has and hasn't been done. Unfortunately it does not show the source type but I'm working on this. -- Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] validator plugin updates
On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 20:29:55 +1000 Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: On Sat, 18 Jul 2009, Liz wrote: On Sat, 18 Jul 2009, John Smith wrote: r1788 has been released as the latest stable/tested version and it contains all the validator plugin updates I submitted. Most aeroway tags throw up warnings. eg aeroway=runway, aeroway=taxiway, aeroway=apron, etc -- Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Best linux mapping/routing setup
Additionally I have the osm data installed as part of the base install to run mapnik for gpsdrive. Best thing about this is that it displays the map as openstreetmap does as it uses the xml file from osm to generate the map. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Best linux mapping/routing setup
On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 13:02:55 +1000 Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: On Tue, 21 Jul 2009, Liz wrote: The version is v2.10pre4 how do i get it to use OSM? after a lot of fiddling, and breaking the modem software further, i got the pre7svn installed i managed to download some osm maps but it isn't 'user friendly' i've tried downloading maps at varied scales but not been able to switch between them afterwards Hi Liz, You don't need to download the map tiles (and yes I agree it is not user friendly), if you install from svn as per here: http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/gpsdrive/index.php?title=8.04_manual It then runs mapnik to generate the maps on the fly. As for fitting on the screen try starting with the command: gpsdrive -M car This puts it into full screen mode as per here: http://www.4x4falcon.com/screenshots/gpsdrive_car_mode_mapnik.jpg -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] maxheight/height
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 10:34:00 +1000 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: A clearance tag could just as easily be misinterpreted as the maxheight tag. I don't see how. bridge=yes; clearance=2.8... Roy Does this mean the bridge has a clearance of 2.8 or the road under the bridge has a clearance of 2.8. To me this would suggest the bridge has a limit of 2.8 ie vehicles travelling over the bridge can not be above 2.8 high. I'd suggest that if the bridge has a height limit, ie clearance, then the bridge is tagged with max_height. If the road under the bridge has a height limit, ie clearance, then the road is tagged. Box bridges have height limits. Roads that pass under a bridge generally have height limits. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] maxheight/height
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 15:24:35 +1000 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: have a node on the way effected, near or under the bridge, rather than splitting the way and then tagging that node as maxheight or clearence might be the better option that making a new section of way. However maxheight is currently only applicable to ways not nodes. ... It's not hard or ambiguous, it just means splitting a way under the bridge similar to splitting a bridge. I would at least suggest that - if maxheight is applied to a node, as you suggest - the node should be *shared* by the bridge (way) and the way passing under. This makes it clearer that maxheight is specifically referring to the bridge clearance. Also, if someone is checking, for example, whether maxheight is specified for a particular bridge/way, they don't have to go searching for some random node near the bridge. Problem with sharing the node between the bridge and way underneath is that you then end up with an intersection. This would then confuse routers and renderers. I would suggest splitting the way under the bridge and tagging that section of way with the max_height tag. This is consistent as it is a restriction for that section of way (assuming there are no intersections along the way. By the way, you can't place a node under the bridge, unless it is indeed shared by the bridge, as all ways have zero width (right?). Actually you can. Place the node on the way under the bridge, then drag it so that it is where the bridge crosses the way but do not join it to the bridge. -- Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Coral Sea Islands
Having seen that many are annoyed with this location showing up (I agree) and having read the wikipedia article on it. I've changed the place=country to place=state as it is a territory governed by Australia this more accurately describes the status. This should also mean it will not show up as much. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] gpsdrive and linux
A request for John and Liz or any one else who may be interested. I have totally rebuilt the deb packages for gpsdrive now and would be interested in your thoughts. The new svn package can be downloaded from here: http://www.4x4falcon.com/gpsdrive/debian/ You will need to download: gpsdrive_2.10svn2452_i386.deb openstreetmap-map-icons_16414_all.deb openstreetmap-map-icons-square.small-minimal_16414_all.deb to try it out and then use dpkg -i as root to install these three ie dpkg -i openstreetmap-map-icons_16414_all.deb \ openstreetmap-map-icons-square.small-minimal_16414_all.deb \ gpsdrive_2.10svn2452_i386.deb You may see that you need to install some other libraries, libmapnik and libboost-* If you do apt-get install libmapnik0.5 this should install the other libboost-* dependencies. Don't use mapnik 0.6 it currently does not work with gpsdrive. I would set up a repo for it but I have not had time to sort that out yet. Anyway TIA -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] gpsdrive and linux
On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:32:45 + (GMT) John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: I don't really want to re-install my eeePC before the Nambour thing, so I'll try it in about 2 weeks time. However my comments about using mapnik still stands, it seems like over kill to run a full relational database to handle map rendering. Should not require a rebuild as it only needs the three deb's listed in the previous email and will install libmapnik and two others associated with that. I've removed the 299 or whatever it was dependencies that previously existed and wanted users other than the dev's to try it out. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] gpsdrive and linux
apt-get autoremove gpsdrive libmapnik0.5 openstreetmap-map-icons Will remove it completely. Initial disk space is now 28Mb for all of the above and I'm looking at reducing that further with improved initial raster maps. Disk space then used will depend on your map requirements and if you want to use the osm data directly. Any way when you get a chance would be appreciated. Cheers Ross On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 00:09:20 + (GMT) John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: --- On Wed, 5/8/09, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: Should not require a rebuild as it only needs the three deb's listed in the previous email and will install libmapnik and two others associated with that. No I meant to clean up my hdd if I wanted to get rid of it, but I'm trying not to do too much to the eeePC for the next week or so. Will try it after that. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Railtrails
On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 10:30:02 +0200 Evan Sebire e...@sebire.org wrote: Maybe slightly off-topic but does the current rendering engine obey the width parameter? I wanted to fix up a river that is in some parts 10m wide and others 100m. Would setting the width be the correct way to make it render better? No. Use waterway=riverbank to define the actual river banks then it will render nicer. Has to be a closed area. Here's an example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-19.2929lon=146.8142zoom=14layers=B000FTF The river is defined using waterway=riverbank upto about Rosslea then waterway=river after that. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Basic search, first attempt
On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 08:42:56 + (GMT) John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: I've been looking for some kind of simple search that can be added to the map page, so far I haven't found anything open source or something I can easily hack into a website so I've cooked up a proof of concept search that just does streets/towns and at this stage opens up on the OSM site and displays the way/relation. I've integrated this with the new map layout and some JS to make it all just work. http://maps.bigtincan.com/index-new.php I've tried to code for simple combinations so far, and if you manage to stump it I'd appreciate it if you could tell me what you were searching for. Oh and the code converts St to Street etc, but I may not have remembered all combinations of abbreviations, I just used the list we built for the validator plugin. Here's one for you: don river road, bowen, qld I know that there is a road near bowen but I can never remember if it's don river road or lower don river road or upper don river road. If I enter the above in google or yahoo it comes up with the correct road, Upper Don River Road. I think you just need to wild card front and back on the road search query to cover it, sould not need to for the city and state. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Basic search, first attempt
On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 13:39:38 + (GMT) John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: This case is an exception since there is a place=* node for Perth which is marked as a capital city, does anyone know 2 towns or villiages or ... with the same names in different states? or even same state I guess... Georgetown Qld, SA and NSW. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Hi, a noob starts some mapping.
that if the median break only allows turning into a road, no U-turn or only turning from one direction that some kind of relation needs to be constructed but relations are beyond me for now. This would be a restriction relation, not just a tag, I've never tagged one of these so I don't know the specifics but this is the wiki page about it: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:restriction Not always necessary. Looking here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-16.917127lon=145.771595zoom=18layers=B000FTF You will find an intersection with no restriction relations yet it routes and renders correctly. You can not go straight across on Minnie Street but you can turn left from either Minnie St to Lake St or viceversa and turn right from Lake St into either side of Minnie St. The section of Minnie St between the two sides of Lake St is not marked as oneway so becomes a two way section, which it is on the ground, as is the rest of the intersection. Generally if you map it as it is on the ground, by using oneway=yes where required, it will work out like this. Go to edit to see how the ways are tagged. If there was no u-turn permitted then you would have to use a relation to indicate that. Cheers and Welcome Ross -- Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] More hi-res sat imagery
On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 02:06:28 + (GMT) John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: I just noticed Rockhampton also has hi-res imagery available. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au Don't forget to georeference the imagery if you are going to trace items. -- Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] maps.bigtincan.com
Is this still working? I get connection refused when attempting to contact ... errors. When I attempt to connect to maps.bigtincan.com or maps.bigtincan.com/tagwatch/ -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Hi, a noob starts some mapping.
On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 05:29:46 + (GMT) John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: --- On Mon, 17/8/09, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: If there was no u-turn permitted then you would have to use a relation to indicate that. That's what I was talking about :) Yes but some do it for oneway turns as well and it's not always necessary. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Australian osm.xml file
John Smith, Is the Australian osm.xml (as in that rendered on BigTinCan) file readily available? If so where can it be downloaded from. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] More on the survey tag
Tags that are not VERY clearly defined in the wiki (as a guide) should be left alone. Given that source=survey and source=GPS are *both not defined* on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:source, these should have been left alone. source=survey is in the wiki here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features#Annotation and it's quite specific source | survey | gpx track or other physical survey ie you went and physically surveyed the area source=gps/GPS/GPS trace is not there at all and should not be used. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] More on the survey tag
On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 12:23:01 +1000 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: If Mark wants to use source=gps rather than source=survey, because he feels it conveys a different meaning, then in the spirit of using any tags you like, I think he should be free to do so. Yes, use any tags you like except where there is already one to cover the situation. RTFW (read the full wiki) first paragraph of the Map_Features page says: This page contains a core recommended feature set and corresponding tags. Consistency is more important than if he feels like it conveys a different meaning. Did Mark go to these locations note what was there and therefore survey what he put in osm, it appears he did. Therefore it is source=survey. A physical survey. If he want's to amplify what was entered then maybe survey=gps is the way to go or note=this survey was done by gps -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] More on the survey tag
If source=GPS (or source=gps) is unallowable, then why is it a preset in Potlatch? No idea, whoever wrote the presets for potlatch probably thinks it's a good idea but did not read the wiki. I'd prefer to stick to the guidelines, rather than making up tags - as long as I know what the guidelines actually are! Then RTFW, it's on the map features page and source=survey is a core recommended feature set and corresponding tag and states: source | survey | gpx track or other physical survey If you feel that it needs to be amplified that the survey is from gps then add survey=gps or note=survey by gps, this is the intent of the add your own tags. But most would understand that it's from a gps survey rather than using theodolite/compass and chain/etc -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] More on the survey tag
In general, the two are inseparable. If author A says M and means X, and author B says N and means Y, then changing N to M *does not lead to consistency*. (note: in this example, M=source=survey, N=source=gps, B=Mark). Except where M is already clearly defined as a constant, as in: source | survey | gpx trace or other physical survey Furthermore, if N means Y=X AND X2 (which is the case in this particular example, but certainly not always), then you've lost information (X2), which can only be regained by re-surveying. Otherwise, even worse, you could have damaged the data by misinterpreting N as meaning X. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] More on the survey tag
On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 14:35:20 +1000 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/9/24 Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com: These were some of my original entries (2007) along with gpsdrivetrack, hopefully I've changed them all to source=survey now. I was just curious if they were still being tagged that way or not. Shoudn't be any more as I tag all mine now as source=survey. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] The source tag [Was] More on the survey tag
If we are being consistent then we probably need to have a look at the whole of the source key. Currently at http://map-data.bigtincan.com/tagwatch for ways there are the following tags: survey(50853) ABS_2006(33994) yahoo(27991) PGS(6468) yahoo_imagery(6229) GPS(4471) MMBW(3881) landsat(3863) extrapolation (1885) Yahoo Imagery(1870) image(1118) GPS trace(862) survey;Yahoo(591) surveyed(577) knowledge(453) knowledge;Yahoo(257) yahoo_images(256) audio(187) yahoo_maps(152) local_knowledge(133) GPS Track(120) yahoo maps(116) approximation(103) aerial_photography/survey(101) photo(98) GPS survey(95) interpolation(89) lansat(82) yahoo_imagery;survey(69) yahoo trace(67) some of these occur because a way has been combined using potlatch eg survey;Yahoo or yahoo_imagery;survey. JOSM does not do this as it ask's you to resolve the conflict when combining ways. My opinion is that survey should override any image tracing (I know there have been several discussions on this but lets just let it stand at the moment). So these should have been corrected by the author at the time, so has the whole of the way been surveyed or have they just combined a part of it with a section already entered by tracing from yahoo? Why is there GPS, GPS trace and GPS Track? Also yahoo, yahoo_imagery, yahoo imagery, yahoo_maps, yahoo maps, yahoo trace, yahoo_images. These should be all Yahoo as that is the base data that the source came from, it does not mater if its maps or images and we know it's been traced. Where did the aerial_photography come from? The intent of the source tag is: The purpose of the source tag is to help with the verification of data in OSM. ... If a particular source is later found to infringe copyright (eg some source that was believed to be OK is later discovered or ruled to be copyrighted) then it would be possible to easily remove all OSM data originating from that source. so who's aerial_photography is it? So we need to clean up several of these: I'd suggest all yahoo* are changed to Yahoo, it does not need more than that and when entering new info from Yahoo just use Yahoo. *;survey survey;* where ways have been combined by potlatch need to be corrected to either all survey or split to show what's surveyed and what's yahoo etc. surveyed be changed to survey this to me is what the author probably intended but entered incorrect info. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] The source tag [Was] More on the survey tag
On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 15:35:56 +1000 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/9/24 Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com: so who's aerial_photography is it? Those may need an attributation=* tag, should be easy enough to work out where they came from. A quick look shows http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/MatthewC tagged ways that way, I'm guessing yahoo sat imagery + he surveyed for the names. Exactly the point. These should then be source=Yahoo and source:name=survey if that's where they came from. Then if there is any issue with copyright the source can be readily identified. Also the DB has south eastern asia + New Zealand + pacific islands, not just Australia and it's external territories. Understood, I was only looking at the ones in Australia. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] More on the survey tag
I'm still a relative newcomer to OSM (and am still in wonder at the complexity and enormity of the task!) and have found this discussion quite interesting. I only use Potlatch as I was advised it was simple, and for beginners, and it loaded by default in the edit screen. I use an Oregon300 GPS. I started only using the tag source=survey until Potltach added the GPS tag. I thought that the Wiki had simply not been updated but that some official (so to speak) decision had been made to encourage the use of the tag source=GPS. I then went back to my traces and changed the source to GPS to keep up with the default application. Potlatch is good for simple edits, josm is much better in the long run. Have a look at: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Comparison_of_editors as you can see there a few to chose from. From what I've read I now will go back to source=survey and add the tag survey=gps. I will consider further the advantages of further definition to GPS type (I think that could well end up in a Commodore/Falcon and Landcruiser/Patrol debate). Good idea of John's wasn't it. Yes gps type could easily end up like that and I don't see any great advantage, unless you have dgps or the like. Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] More on the survey tag
On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:11:30 +1000 Mark Pulley mrpul...@lizzy.com.au wrote: On 24/09/2009, at 2:07 PM, Ross Scanlon wrote: I'd prefer to stick to the guidelines, rather than making up tags - as long as I know what the guidelines actually are! Then RTFW There's no need to be rude. Read the full wiki. The obvious place to look at the wiki is http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:source - however on this page even source=survey is missing. Yes, is it on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features but it's not exactly the most obvious place to look. The Map_Features is the first place you should be looking not the last. All other pages are just additional to that. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] source=lansat
I noticed in tagwatch that there are some source tags that have values lansat. Is this an incorrect entry for landsat? It seems to be about 3 or 4 users that have entered these. Google references the nasa landsat page or a definition of a type of berry. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] source=lansat
On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 23:25:52 +1000 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/9/24 Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com: I noticed in tagwatch that there are some source tags that have values lansat. Is this an incorrect entry for landsat? I'm guessing so, and it's easy with JOSM at least to replicate these errors with it's auto complete based on what tags are already loaded. My thoughts exactly so I'll fix it shortly. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] More on the survey tag
On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:24:49 +1000 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: Something else worth noting, as I've been doing postcode boundaries I've noticed some people have wiped some of the ABS tags so they could do their roads or what not. I've added them back in as it's only fair to attribute the ABS for their data but has anyone else noticed this at all, or even removed the tags, accidental or otherwise? Another good reason not to combine roads with the ABS boundaries. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] More on the survey tag
On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 18:58:14 +1000 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/9/25 Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com: On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:24:49 +1000 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: Something else worth noting, as I've been doing postcode boundaries I've noticed some people have wiped some of the ABS tags so they could do their roads or what not. I've added them back in as it's only fair to attribute the ABS for their data but has anyone else noticed this at all, or even removed the tags, accidental or otherwise? Another good reason not to combine roads with the ABS boundaries. Unfortunately they are the best data sources in some cases, especially rivers in rural areas, people shouldn't remove the tags though, I've added them back in where I suspect they should be. Rivers especially in remote areas I agree with as they don't tend to be moved over time. Roads, well one I just added had several new sections that are no longer where the old road and ABS boundary are. Easiest way to fix it was just delete the highway and name tags from the ABS boundary and start again. Ensuring the ABS source tag and boundary was still in place. There is no guarantee that the ABS boundary still runs along any road. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] More on the survey tag
On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 00:02:50 +1000 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/9/26 Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com: I don't think that the ABS boundaries change if the roads change. It'd be worth investigating, especially if other govt bodies can benefit from it and as a result we end up with more data. It's probably worth while whoever originally contacted the ABS and check with them to see if the road changes and an ABS boundary is along that road does that change the boundary. Was it Franc? It was. Looking back to April when it was first entered, it was suggested that where no/little sat coverage or indeterminate from yahoo, then the ABS data could be used for natural features (rivers, coastline). My thoughts at the time were that rivers would be good but I was dubious about the coastline as I had seen several where the ABS data just cut straight across the mouth of a bay. Whereas the PGS and/or landsat was more accurate. So I'd support using it for rivers but not for coastlines. As for roads until we get some clarification from ABS as to when a road is moved then the boundary moves with it don't use it for roads and don't move the boundary to match the road. Particularly those that have been surveyed and no longer match the ABS boundary closely. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] More on the survey tag
On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 00:35:05 +1000 terryc ter...@woa.com.au wrote: Ross Scanlon wrote: We should not just automatically change the coastline to the ABS data without at least looking at the sat imagery as well. What exactly will that tell you? I would expect that you need to find out what data the ABS coastline is based on. From memory, the offical coastline is at mean highwater level. The ABS data is boundary data not coastline data, however there are areas where it will follow the coastline, rivers, etc. Have a look at the link below: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-20.2657lon=148.9852zoom=13layers=B000FTF This is Whitsunday Island. If you then go to edit and turn on the Yahoo imagery as the background you will see that the area on the western side the ABS boundary cuts straight across a bay whereas the coastline follows arround the bay. Like wise on the eastern side the ABS boundary follows the water up the inlet and the coastline follows the navigable part of the inlet. As I said there are areas where you need to look first if you are going to change the coastline to the ABS boundary. Also have a look at Repulse Creek area which is SW of this on the mainland, the ABS boundary in no way reflects the coastline or the creekline. On the east coast, probably means little difference, but NW coast might mean a great positional difference, i.e Sat images also require knowledge of the state of the tide when they were taken. Anywhere in the tropics has the posibility of a great positional difference. The northwest coast is not the only place that has 9m tides. Have a look at Mackay's eastern beaches where the difference between the low tide waterline and the high tide waterline can be about 1k due to the shallow slope of the bottom there. Practically, what is the coastline used for? Aside from defining the outline of Australia, anything you want to. I know someone who is using it in a gps program along side their nautical charts, not for navigation purely as an educational exercise. Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Our own satellite imagery?
From this website: http://www.skyshipsremote.com/airships.htm UK based company says in the UK there is an altitude limitation of 400ft (~130m) for UAV aircraft, not sure if the same is true in Australia though. If it is we can probably still cope with this via fish eye lenses like the camera at the bottom of this page: Applicable AU rules: http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:STANDARD::pc=PC_91039 One way to go about capturing the images: http://tldp.org/HOWTO/html_single/Webcam-HOWTO/ I had set up something along these lines with lat/long encoded onto it but found the resolution of the camera too low. With some of the new 10M pixels webcams it may fix that. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
On Sat, 3 Oct 2009 22:29:13 +1000 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/10/3 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: Using the Qld govt boundaries information it's possible to work out where streets are, although some streets have been consumed and the boundary information doesn't reflect this. Does anyone know how roads drawn from this information should be tagged? I plotted out the missing streets in Maleny, Qld, as a test case to figure the attributation tags out: http://maps.bigtincan.com/?z=16ll=-26.761,152.849layer=BFF I've left everything as highway=road so I can easily work out what I did. Looks good. Leaving it as highway=road also gives the rest of us an indication that more needs to be added, way type, name, etc. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
On Sat, 3 Oct 2009 23:46:22 +1000 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/10/3 Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com: On Sat, 3 Oct 2009 22:29:13 +1000 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/10/3 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: Using the Qld govt boundaries information it's possible to work out where streets are, although some streets have been consumed and the boundary information doesn't reflect this. Does anyone know how roads drawn from this information should be tagged? I plotted out the missing streets in Maleny, Qld, as a test case to figure the attributation tags out: http://maps.bigtincan.com/?z=16ll=-26.761,152.849layer=BFF I've left everything as highway=road so I can easily work out what I did. Looks good. Leaving it as highway=road also gives the rest of us an indication that more needs to be added, way type, name, etc. I intended to fix it as soon as I could work out what tags were needed, but I thought I'd give an example of what is possible thanks to the new data becoming available. The tags here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Data.australia.gov.au/Queensland Look appropriate for the attribution and source. I'd probably leave them as highway=road as above. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
I intended to fix it as soon as I could work out what tags were needed, but I thought I'd give an example of what is possible thanks to the new data becoming available. Ok, so now a quick description of how you did this. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
Ok, so now a quick description of how you did this. Brendan has set up a WMS server of property boundaries, and things that aren't boudnaries show up as black areas and it's possible to guess which is roads depending how straight the gaps are between boudnaries. Here's a before shot of the area: http://map-data.bigtincan.com/data/maleny.png So how did you get it into josm then? -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Why not to change coastlines automatically to ABS data.
Just noticed this: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-20.34647lon=148.95263zoom=16layers=B000FTF If you then go to edit and zoom in you find: Two restaurants that are now in the ocean. The airport road now in the ocean, this is a surveyed road and runs along the foreshore. The dam next to the airport overlapping the ocean. The marina disappeared totally. It's the area with the three ferry tracks going into it. So PLEASE look at the sat photos and already entered data before you go removing the coastline and using the ABS data automatically as the coastline. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Why not to change coastlines automatically to ABS data.
On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 17:05:54 +1100 Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: On Mon, 5 Oct 2009, Ross Scanlon wrote: So PLEASE look at the sat photos and already entered data before you go removing the coastline and using the ABS data automatically as the coastline. another paragraph in the wiki?? Done -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Osm Street View
As the subject says http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/09/the-300-home-brew-street-view-camera/ -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] natural=land v natural=coastline
I've noticed lots of the islands off the Queensland coast have had their coastlines changed to natural=land. From the wiki this is incorrect. natural=land is for Land that exists within another area, such as a lake. additionally look here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:natural%3Dcoastline Without natural=coastline the islands will not show up in the coastline shape file. I have corrected all the islands between Mackay and Bowen. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] natural=land v natural=coastline
They will render still. Depends. Look at informationfreeway.org for this area at zooms less than 12 and you will see that most of the islands are missing. The roads on Hamilton Island are in the middle of the water. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] natural=land v natural=coastline
On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 14:22:59 +1000 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/10/6 Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com: They will render still. Depends. Look at informationfreeway.org for this area at zooms less than 12 and you will see that most of the islands are missing. The roads on Hamilton Island are in the middle of the water. I'm guessing t...@h is wrong, mapnik renders them. Depends on the implementation of mapnik. If you tell mapnik to use the coastlines from the shape file it won't render them. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] natural=land v natural=coastline
On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 14:26:50 +1000 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/10/6 Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com: On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 14:22:59 +1000 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/10/6 Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com: They will render still. Depends. Look at informationfreeway.org for this area at zooms less than 12 and you will see that most of the islands are missing. The roads on Hamilton Island are in the middle of the water. I'm guessing t...@h is wrong, mapnik renders them. Depends on the implementation of mapnik. If you tell mapnik to use the coastlines from the shape file it won't render them. ummm? Have a read of this: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Coastline -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] natural=land v natural=coastline
Have a read of this: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Coastline Anything big enough to appear on z9 is most likely going to have more than 2000 nodes... That's one reason to use the shape files for the coastlines and if it's not tagged as natural=coastline when the shape files are regenerated then the island(s) will disappear. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] natural=land v natural=coastline
Only at z0-9, at least according to the wiki link you posted, not sure what happens after that, but natural=land will show up at z10- There are three shape files that can be used, which cover all zoom levels. They are world_boundaries, coastlines and shorelines. Also just looking at Lake Eyre it is tagged as natural=water. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] natural=land v natural=coastline
Sorry, the 2 below it, if you zoom in to z10 you can see where Lake Eyre appears and at z9 it disappears. Interesting, on openstreetmap.org Lake Eyre appears from z6 whereas on bigtincan its from z9, so depends on how your osm.xml file is setup for mapnik. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] natural=land v natural=coastline
On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 15:32:49 +1000 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: Lake Gairdner and Lake Torrens are natural=coastline Well there both now natural=water as they are both single ways less than 1000 nodes and there's no need for them to be natural=coastline. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Why not to change coastlines automatically to ABS data.
I would be cautious about preferencing survey and satellite/aerial photography data over ABS. I have found errors in both of these. Survey data from GPS seems at times to have been either traced pooly from gpx tracks or based on innacurate position data, especially where there are tall objects like buildings and hills nearby. Similarly, imagery can be misleading when there is vegetation, like mangroves on the shore, not to mention to low resolution of the yahoo imagery itself. You've missed the point here. What I'm saying is don't just go and change it from PGS coastline to the ABS boundary data without looking what's there. In the example given (Hamilton Island), at the points given, the ABS boundary data was grossly in error, more than 200m near the restaurants and approximately 500m near the airport. The ABS data more than likely came from aerial photos anyway as there's never been anyone actually survey (professional surveyor style) the coastlines in this area. I think everyone should have a read of this: http://74.125.155.132/u/AustralianBureauOfStatistics?q=cache:ijmG6hPI8egJ:www.abs.gov.au/Websitedbs/D3110122.NSF/4a255eef008309e44a255eef00061e57/8e860540d4a7505cca256bf300055f0d/%24FILE/technical%2520paper.pdf+%22digital+boundary%22+accuracy+2006cd=1hl=enct=clnkie=UTF-8 It is the html version of a pdf file from the abs website, as the pdf is corrupt and won't load (at least on windows). It's from 2001 but I could not find an equivalent document for 2006. The main area of interest is Appendix B and the section on topographic features, as below in part: A typical use of digital basemap in GIS is to select features which lie within, intersect, or are adjacent to other features. In most GIS these spatial relationships are determined by the latitude and longitude of the objects being analysed. If an object is close to a boundary then the absolute accuracy of the latitude and longitude becomes important. The PSMA dataset is digitised from maps at scales of from 1:4,000 to 1:250,000 and the accuracy of a latitude or longitude can therefore vary from 4 metres to 250 metres. Cartographic licence and data integration issues can all further erode the positional accuracy of basemap features. So there can be very significant discrepancies in the ABS data in regards to topographic features. Given that the only topo maps for this area are 1:25 then the errors can be in excess of 200m in the ABS data. Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Garmin Handheld with osm and shonkymaps
Hi All, I'm looking at buying a handheld gps, probably Garmin, that can have the osm maps and shonkymaps loaded. This will mainly be used for bushwalking, thus the shonkymaps, so I'd like to be able to have both available all the time. Is anyone here using a Garmin with osm maps and/or shonkymaps? If which model? -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Garmin Handheld with osm and shonkymaps
Hi Ben, Thanks. I dont know much about shonkymaps, but Im using a Garmin 60Csx with osm+contour maps for bushwalking. I dont miss any map details, and if, I add them.. Shonkymaps are topos so that when osm is not available I'll still have maps available. My opinion about the device: In comparison to other models, the 60Csx delivers the best package in terms of accuracy, device layout and price. The Vista HCx is similar in regards to features, but I dont like the smaller screen and lack of buttons. If you dont need the barometer (what I dont use at all) or the compass (what I love, especially when reception is poor), then go for the slim brother of both above mentioned, and save a few bucks. For a floating (but bulkier) unit, the 76C(s)x has similar/same features. The 60Csx and 76Csx are what I had been looking at. Probably the 76 because it floats and we will possibly be using it in wet areas. However, thats not ideal for me in terms of rendering, so Im creating custom maps from OSM data using mkgmap. I am about halfway through the process of creating proper rendering rules and TYP files for my two main purposes: hiking and mapping. If someone else is using mkmap, Im happy to exchange about the scripts and rules Im using. I'd be interested in these, particularly if you can use the NASA SRTM contour data as I've got this setup on the invehicle PC and it's very useful. Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Garmin Handheld with osm and shonkymaps
Hi Pete, Thanks for that. Most of the areas we are intending on travelling to at the moment have little or no osm coverage, even the roads. So the 4x4 will have the vehicle pc with osm and topo maps on gpsdrive and the hand held will have shonkymaps, which are similar to the topomaps on the 4x4, and what osm data that is there. From these two we will probably go with the 76Csx, which can be bought cheaper than a 60Csx at the moment. Now the next question, how big (8Gb, 16Gb) a microSD card can these use. I can see no info in the specs and none of the retailers show this either. Cheers Ross On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 11:48 AM, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: Hi All, I'm looking at buying a handheld gps, probably Garmin, that can have the osm maps and shonkymaps loaded. This will mainly be used for bushwalking, thus the shonkymaps, so I'd like to be able to have both available all the time. Is anyone here using a Garmin with osm maps and/or shonkymaps? If which model? I have the Garmin etrex legend HCx and I use it with OSM maps and Contours Australia v2.00 (10m contours) for bushwalking and mountain biking. I'm very happy with it. I previously owned a vanilla etrex legend. It worked but I love the the high sensitivity receiver, the colour screen and the much quicker loading of maps onto the GPS that the HCx offers over the vanilla model. I used to also have shonkymaps installed on my etrex legend but haven't bothered to reinstall it on my new system, mainly because OSM seems to have better coverage of the dirt roads where I've been lately plus it also does routing to get me to the start point of where I want to go. Regards, Pete -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Garmin Handheld with osm and shonkymaps
2009/10/23 Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com: Most of the areas we are intending on travelling to at the moment have little or no osm coverage, even the roads. In Qld? No. Also instead of a garmin have you thought about a smart phone? There is already a port of navit to android, bound to be other software follow. Phone's not much use otherwise, as where we will be is satphone only country and we already have one of them. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Garmin Handheld with osm and shonkymaps
Now the next question, how big (8Gb, 16Gb) a microSD card can these use. I can see no info in the specs and none of the retailers show this either. Actually finally found the answer on the Garmin site. For anyone interested. If at the most recent unit software version, these limitations are: - There is no limitation to the size of SD/microSD card used but the device will only recognize 4GB of detailed mapping - Each expandable memory device will be able to recognize up to 2,025 detailed mapping segments If 2,025 detailed mapping segments are loaded to an SD/microSD card but does not reach 4GB worth of data, the unit will not show any more detailed mapping than what is provided by the mapping segments. Updated 10/12/2009 So with a 16Gb card should be able to reliably store 12Gb of track data. Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Garmin Handheld with osm and shonkymaps
Hi Ben, Thanks. What happens if you log directly to the microSD rather than the internal memory? The user manual shows this as an option and it also states that they are in gpx format. From the manual: Using this option allows you to record a large number of track points (depending on the capacity of the microSD card). At this stage most of what we intend to cover is single days returning to base each afternoon, so can then download then and start fresh each morning. It also would only be logging whilst walking, all in the 4x4 would be logged by the 4x4 pc. I'll have to also investigate saving to a photo bank (portable hdd with ability to copy from microSD etc directly to the hdd no computer required). Cheers Ross On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 16:27:34 +1100 Ben bened...@cortado.de wrote: Thanks for the quote from the Garmin site. So.. if you log at the smallest interval possible (1 sec), you will produce about 12MB of tracklogs per 24 hours. In theory, 12GB is enough space for ]~1000 24-hour-days, but in fact the file system used by Garmin is (or was?) limiting the number of files that can be written into a single folder to 255. A new tracklog is started at least every day, but also on every switch-off/on. During normal usage, logging is over after 3 or 4 months. As far as I remember, you are not notified about that on the device, it just stops logging. Only carrying a laptop or any other device to modify the SDCard helps. In this case, moving the data to another folder on the card does the trick. Another problem: the inability on those Garmin devices to show all track data you log. You can save 20 logs, and they can be shown on the device in addition to the current tracklog, but you cant display all your tracklogs without converting them into an IMG-overlay. Depending on the chosen log interval, 20 saved logs can be used up quickly, and it requires manual interaction in certain time intervals. If you rely on those tracklogs to find your way back a few days later (or even hours later if you log on 1sec and forget to save manually), you could get a problem.. Id love to find a way around this, but until now, the above mentioned conversion is the only one I found. -Ben ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Help with a couple of things
I think I have done the right thing when setting the no_right_turn restriction using JOSM 2186 but I have waited over a month without seeing updated results using Roadee or on the cloudmade.com website. Can someone check my work and see if I am doing anything wrong? This may just be a lack of being updated by Roadee and/or cloudmade. The two turns that I have to pass almost every day are the following: Point 31395304 (Holt Avenue and Military Road in Cremorne, NSW) should be no right turn both directions here. Point 13877590 (Christie Street and Pacific Highway in St Leonards. NSW) should be no right turn both directions here also. Looks correct to me, although I would make the relations only applicable for the section from the last intersection to the intersection where the restriction occurs. Another problem I just recently discovered is Robsons Rd, Keiraville, NSW is duplicated. One with 17 nodes and one with 4. What's the best way to clean this up as there are roads that are joined to one and not the other. I'm hoping there is an easy way to fix this? Delete the least appropriate way and reconnect the roads. Sorry I don't know of any easy fix. -- Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Help with a couple of things
The two turns that I have to pass almost every day are the following: Point 31395304 (Holt Avenue and Military Road in Cremorne, NSW) should be no right turn both directions here. Point 13877590 (Christie Street and Pacific Highway in St Leonards. NSW) should be no right turn both directions here also. Actually I just ran the JOSM validator across these and there is a painting problem. The via nodes are incorrect. I suggest updating JOSM and add the validator plugin then see what it has to say to correct the problem. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Help with a couple of things
The two turns that I have to pass almost every day are the following: Point 31395304 (Holt Avenue and Military Road in Cremorne, NSW) should be no right turn both directions here. Point 13877590 (Christie Street and Pacific Highway in St Leonards. NSW) should be no right turn both directions here also. There is also the issue here that military road is a dual carriage way, even though a it's only a fence and medium strip dividing the two. If you changed Military Road to a dual carriage road and then just connect the side roads as appropriate then there is no need for relations except possibly like at Rangers Road where there is time restriction. Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Help with a couple of things
On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 07:16:01 +1100 Sam Couter s...@couter.id.au wrote: Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: a fence and medium strip dividing the two. That's median, meaning in the middle. Not medium, which means average. Pet peeve. -- Sam Couter | mailto:s...@couter.id.au OpenPGP fingerprint: A46B 9BB5 3148 7BEA 1F05 5BD5 8530 03AE DE89 C75C Yeah, should not do things late at night. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] tracing from ear map imagery
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:59:05 - David Groom revi...@pacific-rim.net wrote: I've just been looking at the nearmap imagery, and getting very jealous we don't have anything approaching this in the UK. Anyway, whets the preferred approach when I see road layout in OSM which is very different to the nearmap imagery. 1) edit OSM to make it like neamap 2) simply file a note on OpenStreetBug, but leave OSM data unchanged 3) ignore it and let you Aussies sort it out yourselves? David Hi David, Make sure that you georeference the nearmap imagery before changing anything, ie find something that has been surveyed and align the nearmap imagery with that. 1) Don't change ways tagged as survey unless it is really incorrect or it's going to improve the information, also look at the gps traces already uploaded to osm. 2) If your not sure about something then that would be a good start. 3) Post a message to this list with the lat/long and someone will come along and fix it. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Hello!
On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 23:16:14 +1000 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/11/26 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: 1) Is there anywhere to see which suburbs of Melbourne are totally unmapped, but covered by nearmap? You basically load up JOSM and look for blank areas or roads that are greyed out which are highway=road Could not have put it better myself. Don't forget to make sure the nearmap images are georeferenced. Generally it's not needed but its always a good idea to cross check with some know surveyed point. 2) What's the latest consensus on how to tag bits of grass in cities that aren't really parks? I've come across a couple of pages on the wiki (Talk:Proposed features/Misc. urban open space, Proposed features/Green space) but nothing very definitive. There are lots of places along the foreshore here with sizeable areas of grass that don't seem like parks as such, and plenty of reserves...what does everyone do? From mapfeatures page: landuse=meadow Maybe they should be just landuse=park anyway. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
