date:20170515

Hi Joost,

some inline thoughts added.

On 15-05-17 18:49, joost schouppe wrote:
> Hi Glenn,
> 
> I'm not sure we should fix this ourselves. I think we can ask Be-mobile
> to fix this. But maybe a revert is in order.

That would also be a lot of work btw, very small changesets.  I don't
really like reverts (unchecked) as it tends to throw away the baby with
the water.

> Be-mobile didn't discuss this in advance, but just let us know they did
> afterwards. I personally failed in following this up, so now we have
> this mess on the mailing list. First steps are always hard, and when you
> try to do too much in your first step, you can have a big mess up. Let's
> not judge them too much, and try to make this a learning experience, not
> a first and last step. But there is definitely a lot of learning to be had!

I agree, I tend not to fix the blame, I rather fix the problem.

> I can't judge the quality of their WMS, as I can only get it to tell me
> "something is wrong here", not what needs to happen. The base data from
> AWV seems to be correct, at least in the case Marc found. So I would
> guess it's a question of instructions gone wrong.

If I had to guess, that would also be mine, perhaps communication
problem to the person doing the work.

> In many cases there is both AWV data (which the people at AWV were quite
> confident about) and Mapillary traffic signs, so we do have some
> material to work with. It would be nice to have an idea of the size of
> the problem, so we can give more info to Be-Mobile. Of course we need a
> quick solution, but I think it would be best if a larger problem caused
> by a paid mapper doesn't need to be fixed by a volunteer.

I'll try and make a Q/A tool for this, if I have the datasets.  I'm
messing about with the GRB dataset again, might throw in the roads as
well.  primary/secondary roads are a relatively small dataset.  As long
as the problems isn't the source data, we can detect those.

Wouldn't it be nice if we got paid for edit work ? :)

Glenn

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Re: [Talk-se] Vägnamn från NVDB

2017-05-15 Thread Andreas Vilén

Och av bara en slump satt jag och mappade lite runt Mjöhult och tittade på
vägnamnen där. Förutom ett namn som var helt annorlunda i NVDB (jag lägger
till det gamla i en not igen så får det kollas på plats) så var det gott om
vägnamn som har taggats i en ända av en väg, där det är korrekt, men sen
har vägen bytt namn ett antal gånger tills den når andra ändan och det är
samma namn hela vägen i OSM. Sådant skulle en import hoppa över och snarare
ge ett falskt intryck av att kartan är komplett, som med
Corine-markanvändningen idag.

Se changeset: http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/48706536 , exempelvis
Höghultsvägen.

/Andreas

2017-05-15 18:29 GMT+02:00 Essin :

> Jag har använt NVDB för att lösa kartanteckningar, och på det sättet
> upptäckt en del märkligheter. Detaljer finns nedan, men först en
> sammanfattning:
>
> * Namn på skogsbilvägar håller generellt låg kvalitet och är svåra att
> verifiera "on the ground", med många texter som inte är namn, namn som inte
> skyltas och misstänkta felstavningar.
>
> * I tättbebyggda områden är kvaliteten generellt bättre, men även här
> förekommer enstaka felstavningar och gatunamn på stickvägar.
>
> * Jag har inte tillräckligt med lokalkännedom för att bedöma hur det ser
> ut i kommuner som använder vägnamn för landsbygdsadresser, men
> förhoppningsvis är det som i de tättbebyggda områdena.
>
> Om vi ska plocka in vägnamn från NVDB i större skala -- och jag är inte
> övertygad om att det är en bra idé -- måste en människa (gärna någon med
> lokalkännedom) göra en rimlighetsbedömning av varje enskilt namn. När det
> gäller skogsområden är det antagligen inte ens värt att försöka.
>
> Sen finns också det mer principiella importdilemmat: en stor förbättring
> direkt med import, eller en större förbättring på sikt genom att OSM-aktiva
> kollar upp vägnamn själva, och under tiden hittar en massa andra saker att
> mappa? Det är förstås en avvägning av hur mycket längre tid det skulle ta,
> men vi får inte glömma att OSM inte bara är kartan utan också människorna
> och processen som skapar den.
>
> Om vi inte tar det försiktigt från början riskerar vi att hamna i en
> liknande situation som svenskspråkiga Wikipedia. Där pågår nu ett
> jätteprojekt https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipediadiskussion:Projekt_
> alla_platser-st%C3%A4dning med att rensa upp robotskapade
> geografiartiklar som visade sig vara baserade på databaser och algoritmer
> av för låg kvalitet.
>
> Däremot kan vägnamnen i NVDB vara till stor nytta för att lösa
> kartanteckningar om felaktiga vägnamn (ofta från MapBox
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/PlaneMad/diary/34758 ) och som stöd
> för kartläggning i områden där man har lokalkännedom men är lite osäker på
> detaljerna.
>
>
>
> == TLDR: Enskilda exempel på konstigheter i NVDB ==
>
> (länkar till maps.openstreetmap.se, aktivera NVDB-namnlagret till höger):
>
> http://maps.openstreetmap.se/#14/60.0983/16.0492 I skogarna utanför
> Norberg är många vägar namnsatta, men bara vissa av dessa namn är skyltade.
> De används inte för adresser (i stället används by- eller gårdsnamn), och
> verkar inte ha fastställts av kommunen. I vissa fält verkar information som
> inte hör till namnet ha kommit med, t ex "S:a vägen (bidrag 2430 m)" och
> "Hästevägen Östra". Liknande mönster verkar finnas i många andra
> skogsområden, med förbehåll för att jag inte vet hur de skyltas där.
>
> http://maps.openstreetmap.se/#16/59.6471/17.9384 Vid Arlanda har många
> vägar namn som snarare verkar vara någon typ av ref=.
>
> http://maps.openstreetmap.se/#15/60.3811/16.4870 En annan typ av
> icke-namn verkar snarare vara operator=, t ex "Ak-vägens VF" (AK-vägens
> vägförening?) i södra Gästrikland.
>
> http://maps.openstreetmap.se/#16/60.3603/16.6024 I samma område möts
> Högalångvägen och Högalångsvägen. Antagligen är den ena en felstavning, men
> det är svårt att veta utan att kolla på plats.
>
> http://maps.openstreetmap.se/#16/60.1175/16.0032 Utanför Norberg finns
> Övstjärnsvägen och Öftjärnsvägen på varsin sida om de sjöar som på
> Ekonomiska kartan heter Stora och Lilla Öfstjärnen. Om de inte skyltas
> (vilket är troligt) är det omöjligt att veta om två separata vägar
> verkligen har så liknande namn.
>
> http://maps.openstreetmap.se/#17/60.04075/16.07648 Sedan finns också
> uppenbara felstavningar, till exempel "Hyvalarvägen" i Karbenning som jag
> är ganska säker på egentligen heter Hyvlarvägen.
>
> http://maps.openstreetmap.se/#18/59.98894/15.82644 Inne i samhällen
> händer det ofta att små stickvägar (oftast highway=service ur OSM:s
> perspektiv) får samma namn som sin "förälder", t ex Sjövägen och Fogdvägen
> i Västanfors.
>
>
> OSM-hälsningar
> Essin
>
>
> (PS: Började skriva detta inlägg innan Andreas postade sina, men de tar
> upp olika aspekter så jag postar det oförändrat. DS)
>
> Den 15 maj 2017 19:15 skrev Andreas Vilén :
>
>> För att inte tala om att geometrin på osm och nvdb ofta är helt olika.
>> Hur ska

Re: [Talk-it] (senza oggetto)

2017-05-15 Thread dgitto

Oops: il non mappare per il rendering



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Re: [Talk-it] (senza oggetto)

2017-05-15 Thread dgitto

+1 il mio voto come Martin.
Il non mappare viene da lontano. 
Io vedo le query soprattutto. Eseguite da umani o da macchine, per gli scopi
più disparati.
E poi un renderer intelligente non si fa fuoviare da oggetti contigui con
nome uguale. Come suggerito già (io non ci avevo mai pensato!)
Daniele



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Re: [Talk-se] Vägnamn från NVDB

2017-05-15 Thread Essin

Jag har använt NVDB för att lösa kartanteckningar, och på det sättet
upptäckt en del märkligheter. Detaljer finns nedan, men först en
sammanfattning:

* Namn på skogsbilvägar håller generellt låg kvalitet och är svåra att
verifiera "on the ground", med många texter som inte är namn, namn som inte
skyltas och misstänkta felstavningar.

* I tättbebyggda områden är kvaliteten generellt bättre, men även här
förekommer enstaka felstavningar och gatunamn på stickvägar.

* Jag har inte tillräckligt med lokalkännedom för att bedöma hur det ser ut
i kommuner som använder vägnamn för landsbygdsadresser, men förhoppningsvis
är det som i de tättbebyggda områdena.

Om vi ska plocka in vägnamn från NVDB i större skala -- och jag är inte
övertygad om att det är en bra idé -- måste en människa (gärna någon med
lokalkännedom) göra en rimlighetsbedömning av varje enskilt namn. När det
gäller skogsområden är det antagligen inte ens värt att försöka.

Sen finns också det mer principiella importdilemmat: en stor förbättring
direkt med import, eller en större förbättring på sikt genom att OSM-aktiva
kollar upp vägnamn själva, och under tiden hittar en massa andra saker att
mappa? Det är förstås en avvägning av hur mycket längre tid det skulle ta,
men vi får inte glömma att OSM inte bara är kartan utan också människorna
och processen som skapar den.

Om vi inte tar det försiktigt från början riskerar vi att hamna i en
liknande situation som svenskspråkiga Wikipedia. Där pågår nu ett
jätteprojekt
https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipediadiskussion:Projekt_alla_platser-st%C3%A4dning
med att rensa upp robotskapade geografiartiklar som visade sig vara
baserade på databaser och algoritmer av för låg kvalitet.

Däremot kan vägnamnen i NVDB vara till stor nytta för att lösa
kartanteckningar om felaktiga vägnamn (ofta från MapBox
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/PlaneMad/diary/34758 ) och som stöd för
kartläggning i områden där man har lokalkännedom men är lite osäker på
detaljerna.



== TLDR: Enskilda exempel på konstigheter i NVDB ==

(länkar till maps.openstreetmap.se, aktivera NVDB-namnlagret till höger):

http://maps.openstreetmap.se/#14/60.0983/16.0492 I skogarna utanför Norberg
är många vägar namnsatta, men bara vissa av dessa namn är skyltade. De
används inte för adresser (i stället används by- eller gårdsnamn), och
verkar inte ha fastställts av kommunen. I vissa fält verkar information som
inte hör till namnet ha kommit med, t ex "S:a vägen (bidrag 2430 m)" och
"Hästevägen Östra". Liknande mönster verkar finnas i många andra
skogsområden, med förbehåll för att jag inte vet hur de skyltas där.

http://maps.openstreetmap.se/#16/59.6471/17.9384 Vid Arlanda har många
vägar namn som snarare verkar vara någon typ av ref=.

http://maps.openstreetmap.se/#15/60.3811/16.4870 En annan typ av icke-namn
verkar snarare vara operator=, t ex "Ak-vägens VF" (AK-vägens vägförening?)
i södra Gästrikland.

http://maps.openstreetmap.se/#16/60.3603/16.6024 I samma område möts
Högalångvägen och Högalångsvägen. Antagligen är den ena en felstavning, men
det är svårt att veta utan att kolla på plats.

http://maps.openstreetmap.se/#16/60.1175/16.0032 Utanför Norberg finns
Övstjärnsvägen och Öftjärnsvägen på varsin sida om de sjöar som på
Ekonomiska kartan heter Stora och Lilla Öfstjärnen. Om de inte skyltas
(vilket är troligt) är det omöjligt att veta om två separata vägar
verkligen har så liknande namn.

http://maps.openstreetmap.se/#17/60.04075/16.07648 Sedan finns också
uppenbara felstavningar, till exempel "Hyvalarvägen" i Karbenning som jag
är ganska säker på egentligen heter Hyvlarvägen.

http://maps.openstreetmap.se/#18/59.98894/15.82644 Inne i samhällen händer
det ofta att små stickvägar (oftast highway=service ur OSM:s perspektiv)
får samma namn som sin "förälder", t ex Sjövägen och Fogdvägen i Västanfors.


OSM-hälsningar
Essin


(PS: Började skriva detta inlägg innan Andreas postade sina, men de tar upp
olika aspekter så jag postar det oförändrat. DS)

Den 15 maj 2017 19:15 skrev Andreas Vilén :

> För att inte tala om att geometrin på osm och nvdb ofta är helt olika. Hur
> ska en import ta hänsyn till när en väg plötsligt byter namn utan att byta
> way?
>
> Fått splitta många vägar och hittat en hel del gc-vägar/uppfarter med
> vägnamn alternativt vägar som helt saknas bara under mappning av Mölle och
> Arild.
>
> För mycket kan gå fel.
>
> /Andreas
>
> Skickat från min iPhone
>
> > 15 maj 2017 kl. 14:36 skrev Per-Olof Norén :
> >
> > Jag håller med Tomas här. Det kan i princip bara bli bättre.
> >
> > Så länge NVDB-sträckan är längre än OSM dito, så ser jag inget problem.
> Flera OSM-ways med samma namn.
> >
> > Det är om OSM-sträckor inte bryts, medan NVDB bryts och byter namn som
> man behöver göra tolkning.
> >
> > mvh
> > P-O
> >
> >
> >> 15 maj 2017 kl. 09:57 skrev Henrik Lundqvist :
> >>
> >> Håller med. Men vad händer om geometrierna är olika långa och det blir
> >>

Re: [Talk-it] (senza oggetto)

2017-05-15 18:10 GMT+02:00 Paolo Monegato :

> imho no. Poligono unico con name:fr e name:de



quindi non metteresti un nome in "name"? E non metteresti il nome alla
strada? Generalmente, mettere i nomi alle strade è buona prassi, sopratutto
che i poligoni man_made per ii ponte ci sono soltanto da poco tempo, e in
totale ne abbiamo circa 21.000. Per me, il fatto che ci sono ponti che
hanno un nome non vuol dire che la strada non ne abbia (uguale o anche no).

Se ci sono problemi del tipo "di 3 pezzi uno ha un errore di digitazione
nel nome", allora si corregge, come sempre.

Ciao,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-se] Vägnamn från NVDB

2017-05-15 Thread Andreas Vilén

För att inte tala om att geometrin på osm och nvdb ofta är helt olika. Hur ska 
en import ta hänsyn till när en väg plötsligt byter namn utan att byta way?

Fått splitta många vägar och hittat en hel del gc-vägar/uppfarter med vägnamn 
alternativt vägar som helt saknas bara under mappning av Mölle och Arild.

För mycket kan gå fel.

/Andreas

Skickat från min iPhone

> 15 maj 2017 kl. 14:36 skrev Per-Olof Norén :
> 
> Jag håller med Tomas här. Det kan i princip bara bli bättre.
> 
> Så länge NVDB-sträckan är längre än OSM dito, så ser jag inget problem. Flera 
> OSM-ways med samma namn.
> 
> Det är om OSM-sträckor inte bryts, medan NVDB bryts och byter namn som man 
> behöver göra tolkning.
> 
> mvh
> P-O
> 
> 
>> 15 maj 2017 kl. 09:57 skrev Henrik Lundqvist :
>> 
>> Håller med. Men vad händer om geometrierna är olika långa och det blir
>> en till flera-relationer?
>> 
>> mvh
>> Henrik
>> ___
>> Henrik Lundqvist
>> h.lundqv...@gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> Den 15 maj 2017 09:45 skrev Tomas Marklund :
>>> Spontant så känns det väl som att där namn saknas kan det bara bli bättre.
>>> Eller?
>>> 
>>> /Tomas
>>> 
>>> Den 15 maj 2017 08:57 skrev Erik Johansson :
 
 2017-05-13 12:34 GMT+02:00 Joakim Fors :
> Hej,
> 
> Om någon missade det så finns det nu ett vägnamns tile-lager
> tillgängligt: http://openstreetmap.se/nyheter/2017-05-12-nvdb-namn
> 
 
 Hur ställer sig folk till en massimport på ställen där name=* saknas?
 
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Re: [Talk-se] Vägnamn från NVDB

2017-05-15 Thread Andreas Vilén

Ser gärna att vi låter bli detta. Jag har kollat lite i datan och redan hittat 
småkonstigheter. Risken finns att det blir fel speciellt på landet. Skulle då 
hellre se något i stil med Maproulette som kräver en mänsklig hand.

/Andreas

Skickat från min iPhone

> 15 maj 2017 kl. 14:36 skrev Per-Olof Norén :
> 
> Jag håller med Tomas här. Det kan i princip bara bli bättre.
> 
> Så länge NVDB-sträckan är längre än OSM dito, så ser jag inget problem. Flera 
> OSM-ways med samma namn.
> 
> Det är om OSM-sträckor inte bryts, medan NVDB bryts och byter namn som man 
> behöver göra tolkning.
> 
> mvh
> P-O
> 
> 
>> 15 maj 2017 kl. 09:57 skrev Henrik Lundqvist :
>> 
>> Håller med. Men vad händer om geometrierna är olika långa och det blir
>> en till flera-relationer?
>> 
>> mvh
>> Henrik
>> ___
>> Henrik Lundqvist
>> h.lundqv...@gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> Den 15 maj 2017 09:45 skrev Tomas Marklund :
>>> Spontant så känns det väl som att där namn saknas kan det bara bli bättre.
>>> Eller?
>>> 
>>> /Tomas
>>> 
>>> Den 15 maj 2017 08:57 skrev Erik Johansson :
 
 2017-05-13 12:34 GMT+02:00 Joakim Fors :
> Hej,
> 
> Om någon missade det så finns det nu ett vägnamns tile-lager
> tillgängligt: http://openstreetmap.se/nyheter/2017-05-12-nvdb-namn
> 
 
 Hur ställer sig folk till en massimport på ställen där name=* saknas?
 
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>>> 
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Re: [Talk-it] (senza oggetto)


Il 15/05/2017 13:12, Volker Schmidt ha scritto:
Prendiamo un caso simile: un ponte con una ferrovia, magari su un 
livello superiore. Poi ci sono due ponti laterali per ciclisti e due 
per pedoni. E la strada in realtà consiste di due strade a senso unico 
ognuno su un ponte suo. Tutto assieme si chiama, diciamo, 
"Rheinbruecke". E siccome il confine è a metà ponte, in realtà tutto è 
da spezzare e la parte francese si chiama "Pont du Rhin". Mettiamo 
nomi su tutti i pezzi?


imho no. Poligono unico con name:fr e name:de

ciao
Paolo M


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Re: [Talk-it] (senza oggetto)


Il 15/05/2017 16:01, Martin Koppenhoefer ha scritto:


On 15. May 2017, at 11:37, Paolo Monegato > wrote:


Mi rendo conto che sto mappando per il rendering, ma la mappa deve 
essere prima di tutto comprensibile




si, e non solo nel rendering. Se il routing ti dice: "poi vai a 
scalette senza nome" è un problema simile, perché il nome ci sarebbe. 
Un router potrebbe prendere il nome dal poligono e metterlo sul 
percorso, ma un renderer potrebbe unire i nomi uguali prima di 
renderizzare ;-)


Però i 3 o più nomi potrebbero per un errore di battitura differire uno 
dall'altro, mentre se si prende il singolo nome dal poligono...


ciao
Paolo M
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Re: [Talk-us] Help needed, Babcock Ranch near Fort Myers, FL

2017-05-15 Thread Frederik Ramm

Hi,

   thanks for the responses.

On 05/15/2017 03:11 PM, Brian May wrote:
> The new Digital Globe Standard imagery shows some of the new
> development. 

I re-checked and none of the roads I deleted appear on either DG
imagery, not even something that looks like construction.

The developer who emailed us said: "The data was from an old plan and
does not reflect the current plan, and is certainly not a built roadway
network."

I have indeed overlooked the fact that the original mapper had a source
tag "Charlotte County GIS" so I could have at least confronted the
complainant with that. -- They haven't yet got back to me on my question
of more current plans.

> Also the mapper in question is a very active and detail oriented mapper
> focusing on the Fort Myers area.

I emailed Eraque22 on 08 May and haven't heard back, but they haven't
mapped in 2 weeks so maybe they're on holiday.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] 90->70 in Vlaanderen

On 15-05-17 17:02, joost schouppe wrote:
> Glenn, calm down :)

it's not because I say fubar that I'm not calm.  this is e-mail, totally
lacking the ability to convey emotional states, not counting ALL-CAPS
messages,  I said fubar because now we need to audit all changes.   Not
for the problem, but for the work I foresee in assessing the impact of this.

> In fact, Be-Mobile announced on this list that they had made a WMS with
> the roads that needed changing because of the 90->70 law in Flanders
> [1]. They also gave Ben and me the username of this person who did the
> changes for them. But I never followed up on that. Sorry!

I see a number of problems here: first of all, "we" trusted a third
party -blindly- it seems.  We(you) seem to have helped them from the
start, which is good. conclusion: that WMS wasn't Q/A' decently before
releasing it into the wild.
Second problem is that this is prime example of armchair mapping making
this look more like a manually executed datamerge than map editing.

The third -biggest problem- is that the data seems to be wrong, at least
for this road!  That is in fact a huge problem when it comes to 'trust'
aspect of the third=party database.

I've been taking a look at some of the changes in detail and so far, I
see little intelligence in it (roads with different speeds in both
direction, exception made with traffic signs aren't there).  But it's
still unclear if they are errors or not without local knowledge, so same
goes for me: I can't even tell if it is correct or not, and I don't
think paper lists will determine that.

It's just a search/replace from my first analysis.  I could have done
that with a few Overpass queries and JOSM in 30 minutes and move on.

> So it is logical that all their changesets would be 90 to 70. The
> question which i can't answer right now is where exactly it went wrong.
> As far as I understood, they used the AWV dataset to find places to
> change, and that is correct in this case [2]. Our contact at Be-Mobile
> is out of office right now, so I can't tell you more right now.

Ok, in context of this knowledge that doesn't really make me feel more
confident now but I do understand why all changesets are like that.
(same commit message all over again, instead of mentioning road names
for example).

> But I think we can definitely ask them to look over these changes again.
> Something clearly went wrong here, but we don't know the scope of
> mistakes yet, and at least we know who did this and why.

indeed, the 'scope', the part that translated into 'fubar' in my initial
message.  We have no idea now on the impact.

But I am going to take a deeper look into why some applications I've
built are flagging speed problems (average maxspeeds way too high for
all traffic) when compared to OSM speeds, including a traffic layer that
depends on those maxspeeds on all primary/secondary roads.

Perhaps I missed the announcement on which user this was going to be
doing,  but it would probably been a better idea to create a dedicated
account indicating the owner/affiliation instead of using personal names.

I could not tell this was BE-Mobile related.

Glenn

> 
> 
> 1: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-be/2017-April/009887.html
> 1:
> http://www.geopunt.be/kaart?type=dataset=%5B%7B%27type%27%3A%27WMS%27%2C%27url%27%3A%27https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mercator.vlaanderen.be%2Fraadpleegdienstenmercatorpubliek%2Fows%3FSERVICE%3DWMS%26service%3DWMS%26version%3D1.3.0%26request%3DGetMap%27%2C%27layers%27%3A%5B%7B%27id%27%3A%27tn%3Atn_snelhrg_awv%27%2C%27title%27%3A%27WMS-GetMap%20van%3A%20Snelheidsregimes%20langs%20de%20genummerde%20wegen%20in%20beheer%20van%20AWV%27%7D%5D%7D%5D
> 
> Op 15 mei 2017 om 16:04 schreef Glenn Plas  >:
> 
> Ok, I found her.  omg. she's dedicated to changing all 90's to 70's.
> This is really fubar imho.
> 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Ilona_S/history#map=10/51.0953/4.3039
> 
> 
> 
> On 15-05-17 12:24, Marc Gemis wrote:
> > Ik heb dit weekend de N16 tussen Willebroek en Temse terug naar 90
> > km/h gebracht.
> > Een overijverige mapster heeft volgens mij gewoon alle 90 door 70
> > vervangen zonder lokale kennis.
> > Misschien best eens in je eigen buurt kijken, want ze heeft behoorlijk
> > wat wijzigingen gedaan
> >
> > Op mijn Nederlandstalige changeset comment, reageerde ze in het
> Engels.
> >
> > mvg
> >
> > m
> >
> > ___
> > Talk-be mailing list
> > Talk-be@openstreetmap.org 
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
> 
> >
> 
> 

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Re: [Talk-GB] Proposed Import of UK Shell Filling Stations

2017-05-15 Thread SK53

Well as I said, some of the points were covered.

The difference in scale is appreciated, although there is obvious scope for
mappers to enrich open tree data significantly. There other major
difference is one will typically about conflation and the other about
importing (leaving aside planned updates).

Petrol stations are probably one of the POI features with the highest level
of completeness in the UK (6,999 on taginfo vs. 8455 estimated for end of
2013). The taginfo figure is a slight overestimate as it includes some fuel
for canal boats and oddities like hydrogen sources. With well-mapped
objects like these, there will have been significant input from several
mappers: inferring that these objects have come from a 3rd party data
source, rather then having been updated from it would be erroneous. So I'm
fine with adding source on new elements only.

Jerry

On 15 May 2017 at 13:16, Andy Mabbett  wrote:

> On 15 May 2017 at 12:38, SK53  wrote:
>
> > Failure to directly contact this list at the same time as imports is
> > extremely discourteous.
>
> This supposes that the data importer/ donor is are of this list.
>
> > Changing of source tag is unacceptable for mapper surveyed locations.
>
> The *addition* of a source is surely acceptable?
>
> > Website should only be used if the url identifies the actual location.
>
> I don't think anyone disputes this one.
>
> > My personal preference for this type of thing would not be an import per
> se,
> > but tools which allow mappers to enrich data from such datasets.
>
> This may well be a solution, in this case, which satisfies both
> "camps". We have precedence in the addition of cycle-shop data, a few
> years back. Wasn't the tool used for that made available subsequently,
> as open-source?
>
> However, this solution won't scale well, for things like the recent tree
> import.
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
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Re: [Talk-cz] Cyklistický mapathlon

2017-05-15 Thread Jan Martinec

No, to vypadá, že PnK taky *hledá* nejlepší způsob mapování, viz dotazy
tady:
https://m.facebook.com/events/1329753103774019?view=permalink=1345362452213084

(Z mobilu to nezkopíruju, ale například je tam dotaz na use_sidepath, na
který se  tu nedávno ptala/který používá právě Majka :D)

Zdar,
HPM

Dne 15. 5. 2017 15:59 napsal uživatel "Tomas "Jethro" Pokorny" <
xtom...@gmail.com>:

> Zdar, jdu tam, zkusim o tom neco zjistit.
> Jethro
>
> 15. května 2017 13:46:28 SELČ, majka  napsal:
>>
>> Pokud se někdo zúčastní, bylo by možné napsat shrnutí ohledně způsobu
>> mapování cyklo infrastruktury, zvlášť nad rámec běžných informací?
>>
>> Do Prahy se nedostanu, mám to trochu z ruky, navíc v práci končím v době,
>> kdy se bude začínat :)
>>
>> Pokouším se mapovat infrastrukturu nad rámec těch několika oficiálních
>> městských cyklotras co tu máme, logické propojení a značení těch opatření
>> mimo ně a "rekreačních" tras tu zatím moc nefunguje.
>> Zrovna se mi podařilo zkontaktovat našeho koordinátora pro cyklodopravu v
>> Českých Budějovicích, takže se chci pokusit o získávání informací z
>> magistrátu apod., a souhlasu s jejich využitím pro mapování.
>>
>> Prahou na kole funguje, takže za nelepší považuji opsat co jde...
>>
>> Majka
>>
>> 2017-05-15 10:32 GMT+02:00 Petr Dlouhý :
>>
>>> Ahoj,
>>>
>>> Auto*Mat dnes pořádá cyklistický Mapathlon v OSM. Tady je oficiální
>>> pozvánka:
>>>
>>> --
>>> Petr Dlouhý
>>>
>>
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Re: [Talk-us] Talk-us Digest, Vol 114, Issue 9

2017-05-15 Thread Valerie Anderson

I live in Florida and this sort of thing is pretty common. We have rampant
development on a boom-and-bust cycle but probably if this was planned it
will be built eventually unless it is intentionally protected. I just
checked and it looks like part of the ranch was protected with Florida
Forever money in a straight-up purchase and the part that has the roads by
Eraque22 is going to be developed into a giant subdivision called Babcock
Ranch Community. Here the Fish and Wildlife website about it:
http://myfwc.com/viewing/recreation/wmas/cooperative/babcock-ranch-preserve

I've added the preserve boundaries in osm so you guys can see them.

On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 8:00 AM, <talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> Send Talk-us mailing list submissions to
> talk-us@openstreetmap.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> talk-us-ow...@openstreetmap.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Talk-us digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Help needed, Babcock Ranch near Fort Myers, FL (Frederik Ramm)
>2. Re: Help needed, Babcock Ranch near Fort Myers, FL (Eric Ladner)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 09:58:00 +0200
> From: Frederik Ramm <frede...@remote.org>
> To: OpenStreetMap US Talk <talk-us@openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: [Talk-us] Help needed, Babcock Ranch near Fort Myers, FL
> Message-ID: <610ed3a3-9369-00c2-b04c-28be3be76...@remote.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Hi,
>
>DWG recently had a complaint from a property developer about a series
> of fictional roads South of Lake Babcock. I have removed them after
> checking with aerial imagery and after giving the original mapper a
> chance for comment. However, the whole "Babcock Ranch" area is
> cris-crossed with streets in OSM that are not even remotely visible on
> any of the available aerial images (and other roads that are on these
> images, are not in OSM).
>
> This is the area:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/26.7888/-81.7157
>
> Maybe someone in the area fancies a fact-finding mission ;)
>
> I'll also ask the property developer if they have better information but
> of course nothing beats a field survey.
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 11:37:24 +
> From: Eric Ladner <eric.lad...@gmail.com>
> To: Frederik Ramm <frede...@remote.org>, OpenStreetMap US Talk
> <talk-us@openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Help needed, Babcock Ranch near Fort Myers, FL
> Message-ID:
> <CAJdJeii2OKKAWLMEkvHL1H-mumHK3fk58zhhgUkaf22yJ7PYBw@
> mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 2:59 AM Frederik Ramm <frede...@remote.org> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> >
> > Maybe someone in the area fancies a fact-finding mission ;)
> >
> >
> Some of it actually shows up in the Charlotte county GIS system[1] (the
> stuff south of Lake Timber), and construction on the round-a-bout is
> visible on other *cough*Google[2]*cough* satellite imagery (just below Lake
> Babcock).  Construction on the now deleted roads to the left of Lake
> Babcock is also visible (as of Feb imagery).
>
> Most likely it's not vandalism or somebody using OSM for urban fantasy but
> some very early county GIS or planning data that was uploaded.  It likely
> should have been tagged at least as "proposed," though.  Some of it is at
> least a solid "construction" now.
>
> The imagery availble in JOSM via Bing looks pixel-for-pixel identical to
> imagery available elsewhere from 2010.
>
> [1] http://agis.charlottecountyfl.gov/ccgis/
> [2] https://www.google.com/maps/@26.7872318,-81.7380132,2180m/
> data=!3m1!1e3
>
> Bye
> > Frederik
> >
>
> Eric
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/
> attachments/20170515/5b361f7c/attachment-0001.html>
>
> --
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
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> --
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> End of Talk-us Digest, Vol 114, Issue 9
> ***
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] 90->70 in Vlaanderen

Ok, I found her.  omg. she's dedicated to changing all 90's to 70's.
This is really fubar imho.

https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Ilona_S/history#map=10/51.0953/4.3039


On 15-05-17 12:24, Marc Gemis wrote:
> Ik heb dit weekend de N16 tussen Willebroek en Temse terug naar 90
> km/h gebracht.
> Een overijverige mapster heeft volgens mij gewoon alle 90 door 70
> vervangen zonder lokale kennis.
> Misschien best eens in je eigen buurt kijken, want ze heeft behoorlijk
> wat wijzigingen gedaan
> 
> Op mijn Nederlandstalige changeset comment, reageerde ze in het Engels.
> 
> mvg
> 
> m
> 
> ___
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Re: [Talk-it] (senza oggetto)



sent from a phone

> On 15. May 2017, at 13:12, Volker Schmidt  wrote:
> 
> Mettiamo nomi su tutti i pezzi?


si

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Re: [Talk-it] (senza oggetto)

sent from a phone

> On 15. May 2017, at 11:37, Paolo Monegato  wrote:
> 
> Con il risultato che nella mappa non si capisce niente, perché in un paio di 
> metri scrivi 3 volte il nome...
> 

in zoom 24? Nel zoom19 al solito non c'è spazio nemmeno per _un_ nome, visto 
quando sono piccoli i ponti di Venezia.

> Mi rendo conto che sto mappando per il rendering, ma la mappa deve essere 
> prima di tutto comprensibile
> 

si, e non solo nel rendering. Se il routing ti dice: "poi vai a scalette senza 
nome" è un problema simile, perché il nome ci sarebbe. Un router potrebbe 
prendere il nome dal poligono e metterlo sul percorso, ma un renderer potrebbe 
unire i nomi uguali prima di renderizzare ;-) 

ciao,
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[OSM-talk-be] (no subject)

2017-05-15 Thread Marc Gemis

welke van de tientallen ? :-)  http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Ilona_S/history
N16 is al gecorrigeerd, tenminste waar ik zeker weet dat het nog 90 is.

Via Joost te weten gekomen dat dit BeMobile is die AWV data gebruikt.
We hebben nu rechtstreeks contact opgenomen met hen.

Er is hier ook wat op de mailing list gepasseerd bij de vorige 90->70 discussie

m.

2017-05-15 15:53 GMT+02:00 Glenn Plas :
> changeset ID ?
>
> Dit is altijd zo frustrerend... doe-maar-op-mappers met
> ik-heb-mijn-eigen-regels voor OSM
>
> Glenn
>
>
> On 15-05-17 12:24, Marc Gemis wrote:
>> Ik heb dit weekend de N16 tussen Willebroek en Temse terug naar 90
>> km/h gebracht.
>> Een overijverige mapster heeft volgens mij gewoon alle 90 door 70
>> vervangen zonder lokale kennis.
>> Misschien best eens in je eigen buurt kijken, want ze heeft behoorlijk
>> wat wijzigingen gedaan
>>
>> Op mijn Nederlandstalige changeset comment, reageerde ze in het Engels.
>>
>> mvg
>>
>> m
>>
>> ___
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Re: [Talk-cz] Cyklistický mapathlon

2017-05-15 Thread Tomas "Jethro" Pokorny

Zdar, jdu tam, zkusim o tom neco zjistit.
Jethro

15. května 2017 13:46:28 SELČ, majka  napsal:
>Pokud se někdo zúčastní, bylo by možné napsat shrnutí ohledně způsobu
>mapování cyklo infrastruktury, zvlášť nad rámec běžných informací?
>
>Do Prahy se nedostanu, mám to trochu z ruky, navíc v práci končím v
>době,
>kdy se bude začínat :)
>
>Pokouším se mapovat infrastrukturu nad rámec těch několika oficiálních
>městských cyklotras co tu máme, logické propojení a značení těch
>opatření
>mimo ně a "rekreačních" tras tu zatím moc nefunguje.
>Zrovna se mi podařilo zkontaktovat našeho koordinátora pro cyklodopravu
>v
>Českých Budějovicích, takže se chci pokusit o získávání informací z
>magistrátu apod., a souhlasu s jejich využitím pro mapování.
>
>Prahou na kole funguje, takže za nelepší považuji opsat co jde...
>
>Majka
>
>2017-05-15 10:32 GMT+02:00 Petr Dlouhý :
>
>> Ahoj,
>>
>> Auto*Mat dnes pořádá cyklistický Mapathlon v OSM. Tady je oficiální
>> pozvánka:
>>
>> --
>> Petr Dlouhý
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] 90->70 in Vlaanderen

changeset ID ?

Dit is altijd zo frustrerend... doe-maar-op-mappers met
ik-heb-mijn-eigen-regels voor OSM

Glenn


On 15-05-17 12:24, Marc Gemis wrote:
> Ik heb dit weekend de N16 tussen Willebroek en Temse terug naar 90
> km/h gebracht.
> Een overijverige mapster heeft volgens mij gewoon alle 90 door 70
> vervangen zonder lokale kennis.
> Misschien best eens in je eigen buurt kijken, want ze heeft behoorlijk
> wat wijzigingen gedaan
> 
> Op mijn Nederlandstalige changeset comment, reageerde ze in het Engels.
> 
> mvg
> 
> m
> 
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Re: [OSM-ja] 5/20 東京！街歩き！マッピングパーティ：第８回浜離宮恩賜庭園

2017-05-15 Thread yasunari yamashita

新宿の山下です。皆さんこんにちわ

浜離宮恩賜庭園でのマッピングパーティは今週末の 5/20 です。
https://openstreetmap.connpass.com/event/55481/

みなさん、どうぞお越しください！


2017年4月21日 1:42 yasunari yamashita :
> 新宿の山下です。皆さんこんにちわ
>
> 毎月開催している 東京！街歩き！マッピングパーティ
> 5月は20日（土）に
> 潮入の池と二つの鴨場をもつ江戸時代の代表的な大名庭園、
> 浜離宮恩賜庭園で開催します。
> https://openstreetmap.connpass.com/event/55481/
>
> 皆様の参加をお待ちしています！
> --
> 山下康成＠東京都新宿区



-- 
山下康成＠東京都新宿区
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Re: [Talk-cz] rozcestníky - verze

2017-05-15 Thread Tom Ka

Ahoj, novejsi fotky (pokud se neco zmenilo) tak nahravat, ale tahle
nema citelny text, takze jeji hodnota neni az takova, jaka by mohla
byt. (pokud ji mas ve vyssi kvalite, pak samozrejme neplati).

Bye

Dne 15. května 2017 10:09 Marek Janata  napsal(a):
> ahoj,
>
> měl bych dotaz - jak to dělat s verzováním? byl jsem ted o víkendu v
> malenovicích - hotel bezruč a je tam tenhle rozcestník (viz příloha) v osm
> je pod číslem FM266. Došlo asi v výměně cedulí (obsah je stejný). Mám nahrát
> novou fotku?
>
> A (pokud to tak funguje tak se omlouvám - nemám to ted jak vyzkouset) nebylo
> by dobré, kdyby tam staré fotky zůstávaly? Vznikla by tak postupně historie
> změn a podoby rozcestníků
>
> Marek
>
> po 15. 5. 2017 v 9:27 odesílatel Michal Grézl
>  napsal:
>>
>> 2017-05-09 11:59 GMT+02:00 Mikoláš Štrajt :
>> > Zdar,
>> ...
>> > Jak zařazovat fotografie, které nejsou rozcestníky? Jde mi asi hlavně o
>> > rozdíl mezi "panoráma" a "jiné".
>>
>> vymyslet si vlastni tag a ten pouzit.
>>
>> > Případně jak moc takovéto fotografie nahrávat. V součanosti velmi
>> > systematicky fotím stanice pražského metra (zajímám se o jejich výtvarné
>> > řešení), má smysl nějakou jednu fotku ke každé stanici nahrát do
>> > PhotoDB?
>>
>> rozhodne nahrat.
>>
>> > Viz https://www.zonerama.com/metropolis/334273
>> >
>> ...
>>
>> > Zdraví Severák
>> >
>>
>> --
>> Michal Grézl
>> http://openstreetmap.cz
>>
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Re: [Talk-us] Help needed, Babcock Ranch near Fort Myers, FL

2017-05-15 Thread Brian May

On 5/15/2017 7:37 AM, Eric Ladner wrote:
On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 2:59 AM Frederik Ramm > wrote:

Hi,

Maybe someone in the area fancies a fact-finding mission ;)

Some of it actually shows up in the Charlotte county GIS system[1]
(the stuff south of Lake Timber), and constructiononthe round-a-bout
is visible on other *cough*Google[2]*cough* satellite imagery (just
below Lake Babcock). Construction on the now deleted roads to the
left of Lake Babcock is also visible (as of Feb imagery).

Most likely it's not vandalism or somebody using OSM for urban fantasy
but some very early county GIS or planning data that was uploaded. It
likely should have been tagged at least as "proposed," though. Some
of it is at least a solid "construction" now.

The imagery availble in JOSM via Bing looks pixel-for-pixel identical
to imagery available elsewhere from 2010.

[1] http://agis.charlottecountyfl.gov/ccgis/
[2]
https://www.google.com/maps/@26.7872318,-81.7380132,2180m/data=!3m1!1e3

Bye
Frederik

Eric

This area is being actively developed and is basically a new town, so
there is and will be a lot of new construction that is seeming popping
out of nowhere. The mapper probably put in a mix of built, under
construction and proposed roads. When built out, it will cover 18,000
acres with an estimated population of 50,000 by 2050 [1].

The new Digital Globe Standard imagery shows some of the new
development. I haven't take a look yet, but the latest Sentinel 2
satellite imagery may provide a clear enough look as well for major road
construction and land clearing. Its being made available pretty quickly
these days - last clear image of that area is 5/9/2017. [2]

Also the mapper in question is a very active and detail oriented mapper
focusing on the Fort Myers area.

[1]
http://www.heraldtribune.com/news/20170102/babcock-ranch-with-model-homes-soon-to-open-will-have-big-impact-on-charlotte-county

[2] https://remotepixel.ca/projects/satellitesearch.html

Brian
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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Taiwan Open Government Data License

2017-05-15 Thread Simon Poole

As has already been pointed out 3.2 could be problematic. The
translation is a bit wobbly and unclear, but if I understand it
correctly the intent is to reference a data set specific attribution
requirement that would naturally have to be looked at for any specific
data use.

The really killer is however 6.3 (which should have a different section
header) which I suspect is incompatible with the Open Definition and a
lot of other stuff (including common sense :-)).

Simon


Am 25.04.2017 um 01:38 schrieb 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson:
> What do you folks think about
> http://data.gov.tw/license#eng ?
> Can we use that data?
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Proposed Import of UK Shell Filling Stations

2017-05-15 Thread Andy Mabbett

On 15 May 2017 at 12:38, SK53  wrote:

> Failure to directly contact this list at the same time as imports is
> extremely discourteous.

This supposes that the data importer/ donor is are of this list.

> Changing of source tag is unacceptable for mapper surveyed locations.

The *addition* of a source is surely acceptable?

> Website should only be used if the url identifies the actual location.

I don't think anyone disputes this one.

> My personal preference for this type of thing would not be an import per se,
> but tools which allow mappers to enrich data from such datasets.

This may well be a solution, in this case, which satisfies both
"camps". We have precedence in the addition of cycle-shop data, a few
years back. Wasn't the tool used for that made available subsequently,
as open-source?

However, this solution won't scale well, for things like the recent tree import.

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Talk-cz] Cyklistický mapathlon

2017-05-15 Thread majka

Pokud se někdo zúčastní, bylo by možné napsat shrnutí ohledně způsobu
mapování cyklo infrastruktury, zvlášť nad rámec běžných informací?

Do Prahy se nedostanu, mám to trochu z ruky, navíc v práci končím v době,
kdy se bude začínat :)

Pokouším se mapovat infrastrukturu nad rámec těch několika oficiálních
městských cyklotras co tu máme, logické propojení a značení těch opatření
mimo ně a "rekreačních" tras tu zatím moc nefunguje.
Zrovna se mi podařilo zkontaktovat našeho koordinátora pro cyklodopravu v
Českých Budějovicích, takže se chci pokusit o získávání informací z
magistrátu apod., a souhlasu s jejich využitím pro mapování.

Prahou na kole funguje, takže za nelepší považuji opsat co jde...

Majka

2017-05-15 10:32 GMT+02:00 Petr Dlouhý :

> Ahoj,
>
> Auto*Mat dnes pořádá cyklistický Mapathlon v OSM. Tady je oficiální
> pozvánka:
>
> --
> Petr Dlouhý
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Proposed Import of UK Shell Filling Stations

2017-05-15 Thread SK53

At the risk of being completely behind what has already been posted (as
some of you know I have been preoccupied with other things), some quick
points:

   - Failure to directly contact this list at the same time as imports is
   extremely discourteous. Particularly so as many UK/GB mappers will not
   follow or be subscribed to imports and may not wish to do so. As can be
   seen by others comments this proposal has raised significant interest.
   - Changing of source tag is unacceptable for mapper surveyed locations.
   I would suggest using source:tag for additional data added to existing
   objects. The proposed use of source is fine for new objects
   - The proposed update process will presumably overwrite information
   collected by OSMers even when the latter is more accurate. This will become
   a recurrent problem with high-quality imports of this type. Further
   discussion is needed about this type  process: there is a danger that
   people stop mapping feature X because it is updated mechanically. The
   unwarranted. assumption is that such updates will continue forever.
   - Geolocation is good, perhaps too good. We perhaps need explicit
   statement that no Ordnance Survey data (other than OS Open Data) has been
   used in generating the data set.
   - Similarly for addresses. If the dataset has been PAFed it is not
   possible to use those fields for OSM. Note that datasets previously thought
   to be acceptable, notably Land Registry Prices Paid, have fallen on this
   hurdle. This may seem a pedantic point, but it more or less scuppered ODI's
   OpenAddresses project.
   - Website should only be used if the url identifies the actual location.
   - My personal preference for this type of thing would not be an import *per
   se*, but tools which allow mappers to enrich data from such datasets.
   - This highlights how relatively poorly petrol station brand is mapped.
   In some cases the brand is probably present in the name or operator tags.
   It may well be worth having a bit of a concerted effort to get these tags a
   bit more consistent across fuel stations in the UK.
   - Others have commented on the convenience store side of petrol
   stations. I believe that Shell's brand for these is "Select" or "Shell
   Select", although I passed one yesterday which appeared to be just called
   "Shop".

Jerry

On 11 May 2017 at 21:36, Brian Prangle  wrote:

> Hi everyone
>
> There is a proposal for this import currently under discussion on the talk
> import mailing list and the OSMUK chapter has asked the proposer that it be
> discussed on the talk GB mailing list
>
> Regards
>
> Brian
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Help needed, Babcock Ranch near Fort Myers, FL

2017-05-15 Thread Eric Ladner

On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 2:59 AM Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
> Maybe someone in the area fancies a fact-finding mission ;)
>
>
Some of it actually shows up in the Charlotte county GIS system[1] (the
stuff south of Lake Timber), and construction on the round-a-bout is
visible on other *cough*Google[2]*cough* satellite imagery (just below Lake
Babcock).  Construction on the now deleted roads to the left of Lake
Babcock is also visible (as of Feb imagery).

Most likely it's not vandalism or somebody using OSM for urban fantasy but
some very early county GIS or planning data that was uploaded.  It likely
should have been tagged at least as "proposed," though.  Some of it is at
least a solid "construction" now.

The imagery availble in JOSM via Bing looks pixel-for-pixel identical to
imagery available elsewhere from 2010.

[1] http://agis.charlottecountyfl.gov/ccgis/
[2] https://www.google.com/maps/@26.7872318,-81.7380132,2180m/data=!3m1!1e3

Bye
> Frederik
>

Eric
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[Talk-GB] Birmingham Tree Imports

2017-05-15 Thread Brian Prangle

Hi everyone

There are still discussions reagarding tagging which I'm mulling over.
However I'm proposing to edit the already imported data to improve the
height data as suggested in the discussions. This will bring the data into
line with the generally accepted format for height tags

change existing tag to height:range
add height=x where x is nearest whole digit at the upper end of the height
range
(cross-posted to talk import)

Regards

Brian
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Re: [Talk-it] (senza oggetto)

2017-05-15 Thread Volker Schmidt

Prendiamo un caso simile: un ponte con una ferrovia, magari su un livello
superiore. Poi ci sono due ponti laterali per ciclisti e due per pedoni. E
la strada in realtà consiste di due strade a senso unico ognuno su un ponte
suo. Tutto assieme si chiama, diciamo, "Rheinbruecke". E siccome il confine
è a metà ponte, in realtà tutto è da spezzare e la parte francese si chiama
"Pont du Rhin". Mettiamo nomi su tutti i pezzi?

On 15 May 2017 10:39 a.m., "Paolo Monegato" 
wrote:

Il 15/05/2017 11:23, Martin Koppenhoefer ha scritto:

2017-05-15 10:51 GMT+02:00 Paolo Monegato :

> imho il nome è del ponte nel suo complesso, non del percorso che ci passa
> sopra

è come con i highway=footway (marciapiede) e cycleway accanto alla strada:
devono avere tutti i nomi della strada, perché ne fanno parte (mentre il
nome è quello della strada nel suo complesso).

Personalmente il nome su marciapiedi e ciclabili a bordo strada non l'ho
mai messo, a meno che non ne avessero uno dedicato...

Sì, che il nome del ponte è il nome del ponte, ma finchè non ci sono altri
nomi per il "percorso che ci passa sopra" (che in realtà non è altro che
una parte del ponte), io metterei il nome anche su questi.

Con il risultato che nella mappa non si capisce niente, perché in un paio
di metri scrivi 3 volte il nome...

Mi rendo conto che sto mappando per il rendering, ma la mappa deve essere
prima di tutto comprensibile

ciao
Paolo M

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Re: [Talk-lt] Paprastas duomenų pildymas su StreetComplete

2017-05-15 Thread Tomas Straupis

> Klausimas dėl dviračių stovų. Yra nemažai vietų, kur klausia kiek vietų turi
> dviračių stovas. Taip pat toks klausimas rodomas ir prie Cyclocity dviračių.
> Klausimas ar Cyclocity vietas žymėti ar ne? Realiai tai ten nėra galimybės
> pastatyti savo dviračio, bet kitą vertus, gal kam nors naudinga žinoti kiek
> Cyclocity dviračių telpa.

  Aš tokiu atveju žiūriu, kas tokius duomenis apskritai naudoja
(internetiniai žemėlapiai, programėlės ir pan.). Tada aiškiau ką ir
kaip suvedinėti. O jei nėra jokio žemėlapio, kuris tokius duomenis
naudoja, tada apskritai nėra prasmės suvedinėti, nes duomenų bazėje
dviračių vietų tikrai niekas neieškos... :-)
  Kitas dalykas: keista, kodėl apie Cyclocity klausia, nes cyclocity
gi amenity=bicycle_rental... o ne amenity=bicycle_parking...

> Dar viena problema su pastatų aukštų skaičiumi. Kažkaip man pasitaikė
> keletas pastatu, kurie sudaryti iš skirtingų bloku ir tie blokai turi
> skirtingą aukštų skaičių.

  Tokių pastatų aukštų skaičiaus per StreetComplete apskritai
nereikėtų vesti. Nes, teisingai pastebėta, tokius pastatus teoriškai
reikėtų dalinti į gabalus (building:part), jiems nurodyti skirtingus
aukštų skaičius ir pan.

-- 
Tomas

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Re: [Talk-lt] Paprastas duomenų pildymas su StreetComplete

2017-05-15 Thread Mantas

Įsidiegiau StreetComplete ir šiandien jau sužymėjau 19 vietų.

Klausimas dėl dviračių stovų. Yra nemažai vietų, kur klausia kiek vietų
turi dviračių stovas. Taip pat toks klausimas rodomas ir prie Cyclocity
dviračių. Klausimas ar Cyclocity vietas žymėti ar ne? Realiai tai ten nėra
galimybės pastatyti savo dviračio, bet kitą vertus, gal kam nors naudinga
žinoti kiek Cyclocity dviračių telpa.

Dar viena problema su pastatų aukštų skaičiumi. Kažkaip man pasitaikė
keletas pastatu, kurie sudaryti iš skirtingų bloku ir tie blokai turi
skirtingą aukštų skaičių. Tai kaip suprantu, tokiais atvejais reikėtų
skelti pastatą į kelias dalis ir kiekvieną daliai atskirai nurodyti aukštų
skaičių? Vienas tokių pavyzdžių yra Arfa [1], kur pastatas sudarytas iš
daug gabalų ir kiekvienas gabalas turi skirtingą aukštų skaičių, nors pats
pastatas yra vientisas. Taip, norint sužymėti aukštų skaičių, kaip suprantu
reikėtų Arfą skaidyti į daug gabalų?

[1] http://osm.org/go/0lP6xO2vK



2017 m. gegužės 12 d. 12:40, Tomas Straupis  rašė:

> > Puikumėlis. Išbandžiau, paprastumas labai patiko. Tik reiktų po Upload
> > Answerpaspaudimo įdėti kokį laikroduką/ratuką/pranešimą - kitaip neina
> > suprati, išsiųsti pakeitimai ar ne.
>
>   Nusiuntus atsakymus, padidėja žvaigždučių skaičius, bet sutinku, kad
> tai nėra labai akivaizdu/intuityvu.
>
>   Galima bandyti rašyti pasiūlymą StreetComplete githube:
>   https://github.com/westnordost/StreetComplete
>
> --
> Tomas
>
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-- 
 Mantas aka sirex
  __o   /\
_ \<,_   -- launchpad.net/~sirex --  /\/  \
___(_)/_(_)_/_/\
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[OSM-talk-be] 90->70 in Vlaanderen

2017-05-15 Thread Marc Gemis

Ik heb dit weekend de N16 tussen Willebroek en Temse terug naar 90
km/h gebracht.
Een overijverige mapster heeft volgens mij gewoon alle 90 door 70
vervangen zonder lokale kennis.
Misschien best eens in je eigen buurt kijken, want ze heeft behoorlijk
wat wijzigingen gedaan

Op mijn Nederlandstalige changeset comment, reageerde ze in het Engels.

mvg

m

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Vérification

2017-05-15 Thread Yannick


Le 15/05/2017 à 01:06, François Lacombe a écrit :

Bonsoir

Les amis de wikipedia ont traité le sujet. Il y a les adresses associées

https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_des_fa%C3%A7ades_factices_de_Paris

A+

Francois


Bonjour,

Merci à tous les deux.
Je me disais que c'était bizarre que ce ne soit pas traité.
Il est vrai que j'ai eu du mal à travailler sur ce truc mais cela ne 
venait de chez moi, pas le bonhomme mais de la version de JOSM utilisée 
et aussi un problème de Java.


Merci d'avoir rectifié mon erreur.

Amitiés

--
Yannick VOYEAUD
Nul n'a droit au superflu tant que chacun n'a pas son nécessaire
(Camille JOUFFRAY 1841-1924, maire de Vienne)
http://www.voyeaud.org
Créateur CimGenWeb: http://www.francegenweb.org/cimgenweb/
Journées du Logiciel Libre: http://jdll.org
Généalogie en liberté avec Ancestris http://www.ancestris.org
Aidez Ancestris à aller au Havre
https://www.helloasso.com/associations/ancestris/collectes/le-havre-2017

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Re: [Talk-se] NVDB CC0 hastigheter och cykelvägar som tiles

2017-05-15 Thread Thomas Fischer

Hej,

> Ska labba lite med att skriva ut hastigheterna också. Försökte välja ett 
> färgschema[1] som påstås ska vara lite anpassat för färgblinda men är själv 
> tyvärr inte så insatt/påläst. Svårt att hitta färgscheman med så många steg 
> så det blir användbart även om man har fullt färgseende.
En annan ide: Använda olika sorters punkter och streck för att
representera olika hastigheter.

Hälsningar,
Thomas

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Re: [Talk-it] (senza oggetto)


Il 15/05/2017 11:23, Martin Koppenhoefer ha scritto:


2017-05-15 10:51 GMT+02:00 Paolo Monegato >:


imho il nome è del ponte nel suo complesso, non del percorso che
ci passa sopra


è come con i highway=footway (marciapiede) e cycleway accanto alla 
strada: devono avere tutti i nomi della strada, perché ne fanno parte 
(mentre il nome è quello della strada nel suo complesso).


Personalmente il nome su marciapiedi e ciclabili a bordo strada non l'ho 
mai messo, a meno che non ne avessero uno dedicato...


Sì, che il nome del ponte è il nome del ponte, ma finchè non ci sono 
altri nomi per il "percorso che ci passa sopra" (che in realtà non è 
altro che una parte del ponte), io metterei il nome anche su questi.


Con il risultato che nella mappa non si capisce niente, perché in un 
paio di metri scrivi 3 volte il nome...


Mi rendo conto che sto mappando per il rendering, ma la mappa deve 
essere prima di tutto comprensibile


ciao
Paolo M

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Re: [Talk-it] Landuse (aridaje)


Il 15/05/2017 11:14, Martin Koppenhoefer ha scritto:


2017-05-15 11:04 GMT+02:00 Paolo Monegato >:


Beh, si possono sempre mappare i filari o le singole piante nel
caso del frutteto... darebbe sicuramente l'idea di dove è
effettivamente l'area dove si svolge l'attività. Poi le stradine
interne si potrebbe benissimo lasciarle dentro l'area, fan parte
dell'attività pure quelle.


be, è soggettivo cosa fa parte e cosa no. Se c'è un pozzo _altrove_, 
da dove si preleva acqua per le coltivazioni, in qualche modo farebbe 
parte quel pozzo come anche le waterway che poi portano l'acqua. Poi 
se c'è un magazzino dove si mettono gli attrezzi, che, non fa parte? 
Il negozio dove si comprano i pesticidi, non fa parte? E il produttore 
dei pesticidi? E chi produce le botte per mettere il vino. E dove 
abitano le persone che aiutano durante la raccolta? E la madre del 
contadino, senza di lei non ci sarebbe l'attività, no? 


;-)


:-D

Le rogge dentro la proprietà, cioè quelle private dove l'acqua viene 
fatta passare solo negli appositi orari imho ne fanno parte (ad inizio 
stagione ti mandano il calendario con gli orari, può essere che ti 
capiti pure la notte...). Quelle invece che fanno parte della rete 
consortile, dove l'acqua scorre sempre (quantomeno durante la bella 
stagione) no, così come il pozzo (che presumo serva più attività). Il 
magazzino fa decisamente parte dell'attività. I fornitori chiaramente no ;-)


ciao
Paolo M

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Re: [Talk-it] (senza oggetto)

2017-05-15 10:51 GMT+02:00 Paolo Monegato :

> imho il nome è del ponte nel suo complesso, non del percorso che ci passa
> sopra




è come con i highway=footway (marciapiede) e cycleway accanto alla strada:
devono avere tutti i nomi della strada, perché ne fanno parte (mentre il
nome è quello della strada nel suo complesso).

Sì, che il nome del ponte è il nome del ponte, ma finchè non ci sono altri
nomi per il "percorso che ci passa sopra" (che in realtà non è altro che
una parte del ponte), io metterei il nome anche su questi.

E' la stessa identica cosa come con le strade su ponti. Esempi:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/23645707
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/60265671
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/391759664

Ciao,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-it] Landuse (aridaje)

2017-05-15 11:04 GMT+02:00 Paolo Monegato :

> Beh, si possono sempre mappare i filari o le singole piante nel caso del
> frutteto... darebbe sicuramente l'idea di dove è effettivamente l'area dove
> si svolge l'attività. Poi le stradine interne si potrebbe benissimo
> lasciarle dentro l'area, fan parte dell'attività pure quelle.



be, è soggettivo cosa fa parte e cosa no. Se c'è un pozzo _altrove_, da
dove si preleva acqua per le coltivazioni, in qualche modo farebbe parte
quel pozzo come anche le waterway che poi portano l'acqua. Poi se c'è un
magazzino dove si mettono gli attrezzi, che, non fa parte? Il negozio dove
si comprano i pesticidi, non fa parte? E il produttore dei pesticidi? E chi
produce le botte per mettere il vino. E dove abitano le persone che aiutano
durante la raccolta? E la madre del contadino, senza di lei non ci sarebbe
l'attività, no? 

;-)

Ciao,
Martin
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[OSM-talk-fr] OpenStreetMap-France : Candidatures au conseil d'administration, Convocation à l'Assemblée Générale Ordinaire 2017

2017-05-15 Thread Benoit Fournier

Rappel pour la dernière semaine :

Adhérer, c'est aussi la possibilité de se porter candidat au CA. Nous
attachons de l'importance à ce que de nouvelles personnes puissent
nous rejoindre afin de faire tourner les responsabilités (nous
fonctionnons par binôme de responsables).

Les *candidatures* doivent être envoyées au Conseil d'Administration
 au moins 15 jours avant la tenue de
l'assemblée générale, soit le *vendredi 19 mai à minuit* au plus tard.


2017-05-02 Donat ROBAUX :

> L'Assemblée Générale de l'association OpenStreetMap France se tiendra le
> 3 juin à partir de 17h30 (horaire à confirmer) à Avignon, durant notre 
> conférence
> annuelle "State Of The Map".
>
> Vous trouverez la *convocation* complète, avec l'ordre du jour sur notre
> site web : https://openstreetmap.fr/ag2017
>
> Comme l'an passé, il sera possible de *voter à distance* pour celles et
> ceux qui ne feront pas le déplacement.
>
> N'oubliez pas de renouveler d'ici là votre *cotisation* pour pouvoir voter. 
> Vous
> pouvez le faire en ligne, comme indiqué sur https://openstreetmap.fr/adherer
>
> Adhérer, c'est aussi la possibilité de se porter candidat au CA. Nous 
> attachons de l'importance à ce que de nouvelles personnes puissent nous 
> rejoindre afin de faire tourner les responsabilités (nous fonctionnons par 
> binôme de responsables).
>
> Les *candidatures* doivent être envoyées au Conseil d'Administration 
>  au moins 15 jours avant la tenue de 
> l'assemblée générale, soit le *vendredi 19 mai à minuit* au plus tard.
>
>
> Au plaisir de nous y retrouver.
>
> Donat ROBAUX - Secrétaire adjoint d'OpenStreetMap France pour le CA
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing fuel stations in UK and future similar imports

2017-05-15 Thread Ed Loach

Rory wrote:

> To chime in, and say I think it's OK to have external ids/refs
> like this. I've done an import which added such a ref and use that tag
> elsewhere. I can totally see the benefit for this w.r.t. to make it
> easier for OSM to interoperate with other datasets. With the
> obvious
> caveat, of "don't rely on it too much, the OSM community might get
> rid
> of it"

I'd add that such references should at least be documented on the wiki, ideally 
with a link to somewhere the reference can be entered to see what the source 
provided information-wise.

A quick wiki search finds lots of ref type fields that have been documented. 
I've not checked how many can be verified. e.g. sustrans_ref, ref:mhs, 
PMSA_ref, ref:INSEE, ref:isil, ref:FR:PTT, ref:zsj, ref:whc, ref:ERDF:gdo, 
ref:ruian:building, ref:sandre, uic_ref (and then I stopped scanning the search 
results).

Ed

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Re: [Talk-it] Landuse (aridaje)


Il 14/05/2017 10:25, Aury88 ha scritto:

il motivo è che a differenza di landuse= residential o
landuse=greenhouse_horticulture in landuse vineyard (come anche orchard o
farmland) non c'è un altro elemento mappato/taggato che indica dove
effettivamente si svolge l'attività...
io in un landuse=residential che comprende le strade interne, i parcheggi e
gli edifici so che dove effettivamente si abita è il solo building. cosi
come nel landuse=greenhouse_horticulture so che dove effettivamente si fa
attività agricola è l'interno del building=greenhouse. esistesse un altro
tag per specificare dove effettivamente si effettua la coltivazione anche
per i vineyard gli orchard o i farmland userei quelli ed estenderei il
landuse anche alle aree afferenti seppur non usate effettivamente per
coltivare ma a servizio della attività.


Beh, si possono sempre mappare i filari o le singole piante nel caso del 
frutteto... darebbe sicuramente l'idea di dove è effettivamente l'area 
dove si svolge l'attività. Poi le stradine interne si potrebbe benissimo 
lasciarle dentro l'area, fan parte dell'attività pure quelle.


ciao
Paolo M

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Re: [Talk-it] nuova fonte ortofoto: Digital Globe


Il 11/05/2017 18:28, Davide Sandona' ha scritto:


Mah... non è che si rischia un TIGER 2? Che effetto avrà tutto ciò
sulla comunità thailandese di OSM?


Certo che si rischia un TIGER. Adesso non ho tempo di seguire le 
discussioni sul forum [1] [2], ma sembra che la comunità locale sia 
veramente ridotta all'osso, sicuramente non all'altezza per 
revisionare la quantità enorme di dati che verrà rilasciata.


E probabilmente l'operazione potrebbe ostacolare lo sviluppo della 
comunità...


Riguardo agli effetti sulla comunità OSM thailandese, dipende. A 
Facebook non costerebbe nulla creare un messaggio da visualizzare in 
cima alla bacheca di ogni profilo Thailandese che spiegasse cos'è OSM 
e perché è importante, in modo da attirare qualche potenziale 
mappatore. Lo farà? Probabilmente no!


Credo di no, anche perché non è suo interesse. Ma anche se lo facesse 
quanti risponderebbero all'appello?



Il 11/05/2017 20:15, Martin Koppenhoefer ha scritto:
2017-05-11 17:42 GMT+02:00 Paolo Monegato >:


Mah... non è che si rischia un TIGER 2? Che effetto avrà tutto ciò
sulla comunità thailandese di OSM?


siete tutti benvenuti a dire il vostro nella lista import, è la 
comunità che decide, e se ci sono solo voci contrarie non lo 
potrebbero fare.


Però imho dovrebbe essere dato un peso maggiore al parere dei locali... 
metti che l'80% dei mapper non-thai sia d'accordo con il procedere ma 
che solo il 40% dei locali sia d'accordo; per me in quel caso dovrebbero 
bloccare tutto.



Il 11/05/2017 21:09, Martin Koppenhoefer ha scritto:

Mah... non è che si rischia un TIGER 2?

in realtà temo peggio, perché il Tiger forniva tantissimi nomi, mentre questi 
sono dati prodotti da un'intelligenza artificiale che interpreta ortofoto, 
quindi suppongo i nomi non ci saranno ;-)


Senza contare i probabili errori che introdurrà...

ciao
Paolo M

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Re: [Talk-it] (senza oggetto)